/osrg/ OSR General - Hitting Edition

>>52617764
Add, obviously. Otherwise negative ACs would get even more stupid.

>>52616997
How do you play it, then? It doesn't seem possible straight out of the box: too much Grimtooth shit.

>>52617764
>Do you add AC to roll or subtract it from THAC0
You tell the DM what your modified roll is, and he tells you if it hit.

Why would the player know what someone else's AC is?

>>52617914
>but it also means the play needs to know the target's AC, which some people don't like.

Why would the players need to know the target's AC any more than with any other system?

>>52617966
But how do you, as the DM, know whether they hit or not? Do you add AC to their roll or remove it from their THAC0?

>>52617974
...that's a good point, actually.

In general, how do you people verbally do attack rolls? I know in 5e it's usually:
>roll dice
>add modifiers
>ask DM "Does a 19 hit?"
>DM checks notes and answers

How does the process work in OSR-type systems (i.e., when using THAC0 or combat tables)?

>>52617764
THAC0 is the most confusing mechanic I've met in D&D

>>52618083
I have my players roll both attacks and damage to save time, then simply won't apply the damage if they don't hit.

>>52618089
Then you've never seen 1e's matrix tables.

>>52617049
I've actually spoken to one of the developers who tried to revive Incursion, they weren't happy with the original mana system, it was causing a efficiency-rest loop.

>>52618139
Why'd they only "try" to revive it? What happened?

>>52618083
It should be the same, actually.
Dave Arneson would never ever ever tell a PC what a targets AC is.

As far as the general quesion:
>Do you add AC to roll or subtract it from THAC0
Neither. You roll a d20 to hit, and add any 'to hit' bonuses and see what your modified roll is.
THAC0 is kind of like a sliding scale in a way... If the targets AC is a positive number, subtract the AC from the THAC0 to determine the number needed to hit the target. If the target has a negative AC then add the number to thaco.

>>52618186
>If the targets AC is a positive number, subtract the AC from the THAC0 to determine the number needed to hit the target. If the target has a negative AC then add the number to thaco.

That's exactly what the thread question was.

>>52618186
>neither
>meant both
My wife keeps talking to me and interrupting...

>>52618204
See>>52618217

>>52617764
How I understand it:
>if targets AC is positive, subtract the number from THAC0 to find the number that needs to be rolled
>if targets AC is negative, add the number to THAC0 to find the number that needs to be rolled

So let's say you've got a THAC0 of 20. To hit AC 10 you need to roll a 10 (20 - [10]). To hit AC -10 you need to roll a 30 (20 - [-10]).

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>>52617966
>You tell the DM what your modified roll is
The referee makes your roll behind his screen.
How would you even know what you rolled?

You tell the referee what you attack, he tells you if you hit.

>>52618151
It wasn't designed to be anything more than a demo essentially, major portions of the game would have had to be rewritten from scratch, because the game was hacks built on top of hacks fixing a bug would break other components of the game.

>>52618089
>not 1e grappling
>not 1e psionics

>>52617764
>Like a turtle on its back [...] flailing about and unable to right yourself.
Turtles haves no trouble righting themselves, their shells are near-perfect gömböcs.
They also don't flail around, they flick their neck.

It's spooky how quick they do it, too.
You can miss it by blinking.

So as I understand it, wandering monsters in OSR are meant not to seriously challenge the party, but to gradually wear down their resources.

Thing is, why would the wandering monsters -want- to do any of this?

Why would the 2d4 goblins I just rolled want to throw themselves at the party just so the cleric would need to expend another spell, when they already know the party dealt with like ten of them in the previous fight?

>>52618301
Yeah no whatever

>>52617915
It's a negadungeon that can be used as a one-shot or as a campaign starter. Don't use it in an established campaigns unless you're an asshole.

>>52617000
Angband is the real most osr video game.

>go in
>get the treasure
>gtfo before the wandering monster spawns something that'll eat your gear and not drop anything

What kinds of changes do you guys make to monsters to keep the players on their toes and reduce the meta game "it's a troll, get the fire even though my character has never seen one before" issue?

I'm thinking about making my zombies like coyotes. Animal cunning, ambush predators, one stands in the road to lure you in while four more are in the weeds.

But then is that just a ghoul at that point?

>>52618859
Look up into the Random Esoteric Creature Generator, which addresses precisely this problem.

>>52618482
Wandering monsters represent verisimilitude in a way. It is, as you stated, to wear a party down though it's more to show that everything in a dungeon wasn't static. People, monsters, whatever... they move around, they talk to each other, trade whatever.
The best wandering monsters in my opinion are drawn from the resources of the dungeon, not just some random douches that pop in out of nowhere

>>52618881
This very much. Even if you don't go 'by the book' it is a good resource to mine for ideas

>>52618482
It depends on what level of realism your aiming for, why would the 2d4 goblins know your party has dealt with like ten of them in the previous fight they never saw? If your going full grognard your dungeon has a ecosystem, multiple tribes of goblins and another party of two of adventures running around.

>>52618430
>Turtles haves no trouble righting themselves, their shells are near-perfect gömböcs.
Yeah, that's one of those stupid myths, that seem to presume HURR NATURE UR A TARD, like evolution wouldn't act strongly against turtles who couldn't flip on their own power, or hasn't given rise to much more complex stuff.

I think some kinds of people just find it comforting to envision a God who's kind of a klutz.

>>52618881
Is that in the trove? where?

>>52619437
DM resources > Adventure prep

>>52619178
On the other hand, there's kakapos...

How many one-page dungeon compilations there are out there? I have a 2016 one, but I'm pretty sure theres a '14 and '15.
Is there a *selected* one-page-dungeon compilation? There's A LOT of wonky shit in there.

>>52619659
Starting from 2012 to my knowledge.

>>52618089
You can always use attack matrixes supplemented by weapon type vs armor type modifiers (with the addendum that the modifiers for weapons marked with a * are different for certain armor types if the target is prone and dismounted).

Also - thac0 - ac isn't any more confusing than ac - bab (which is how it ended up working anyway)

>>52618859
>get the fire even though my character has never seen one before

I don't understand DMs who act like there are no such thing as adventurer stories or monster folklore. I mean, Troll frequency is uncommon in 2e and they occur in any land environment, why wouldn't people know about their regeneration and/or vulnerability to fire?

It's like having an ice age barbarian from the frigid mountains who doesn't know that mammoths, frost giants, and white dragons exist.

Does anyone happen to have the Jester class for BFRPG? It seems to have been removed from the downloads website.

>>52619178
Except the myth has basis in reality. The ease with which they're able to flip off their backs depends on the size and curvature of their shell. It's a trade-off, turtles with smaller, more curved shells have an easier time flipping back over, but larger, flatter shells make it harder. At the same time, turtles tend to fight each other by trying to flip each other, a larger shell makes it easier to save yourself from getting flipped over, and to flip over turtles with a smaller shell. At the same time, if a larger turtle DOES get flipped over, it might literally just get fucked.

What most science fans don't seem to understand is that natural selection is not the only evolutionary force that acts on animals, and make it out to be some weird fucking, algorithm that does away with shit that isnt perfect. That isn't true. Sexual selection plays a massive role and CAN in fact result in klutz-like results in certain animals for no other reason than "the opposite sex found it attractive". This is demonstrated time and time again with experiments like Malte Andersson's famous experiment with long-tailed windowbirds. You can affix additional feathers to these birds to the point that it would make flying nigh-impossible, but these birds would die surrounded by horny females. Likewise, you see examples in certain tree beetles whose attenae have gotten so long due to sexual selection it occasionally causes problems for them.

That's where we can come back to the turtle. A large turtle who is more likely to flip over a rival is more likely to mate and have offspring - sexual selection. Things in evolutionary bio tend to be more complicated than the idea of the efficient selector most people tend to think of.

What is your favorite area or location of your favorite setting?

>>52620598
World of Greyhawk, starting at 586CY

I'm putting the finishing touches on my version of it. I call it Encyclopedia of the Flanaess, very very little shift from canon, though i admit its more Gygaxian than the dystopian feeling of the post-wars era. What I have now is a 200+ page text wall that sorely needs art and some typesetting
Anything 3e + ruined the setting completely.

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really makes you think huh

>>52620598
I like pre-Grand Conjunction Ravenloft, pre-Prism Pentad Dark Sun, and Al-Qadim.

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Have any of you run a cyberpunk game in the OSR-style? I don't know where to begin.

I was going to steal some firearm rules from whoever writes The Garden, unless you guys know a better way to do guns and future stuff.

The only idea I've got is that cool gadgetry is going to take the place of magic items. Even though you can, in theory, buy that stuff, the players are all going to be poor gutterdwellers so they'll probably just have to steal it all until they get rich.

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>>52621217
For reference here are the Garden rules I'm talking about. As a side note to the author (cuz I know he lurks these parts), really killer idea bud, I like this stuff a lot.

>>52621217
>>52621317
Mirrorshades, Cyber-hacked, etc.

>>52621451
I'm reading mirrorshades now, and I definitely see some cool stuff in here. I've never heard of Cyberhacked though, what's it like?

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>>52620220
Nevermind, I found it in some obscure archive. Doesn't look like it's back up on the BFRPG website, so maybe they've given up on the class or something.

>>52620318
Exactly. And people seem to think that the point in time that they exist, right now, is the end-point of natural selection. It isn't. It's just a snapshot. You could be - right now - looking at a big fucking mistake in nature, which may get selected against and wiped out over the next 10,000 years, but right now it's still a big fucking mistake. We are not at the end-point of evolution. Also mutation: it's not just for cool superpowers.

>>52617764
Ascending: I come from 3e and play drunk a lot.

>>52621849
Post link to obscure archive?
Why even mention it otherwise?

>>52607908
>>52607944
>>52607964
>>52608866
Hey moonman, post all your notes for that crawl on the moon. That shit looks awesome

>>52622162
It's nothing special, I just google searched long enough and found it. https://archive.org/details/BF-Jesters-Supplement-r2
I guess it's not that obscure. I just mentioned that I found it there so it wouldn't look like I found it on my own computer, or something.

Where can I find rules for 1E AD&D to allow characters to dual wield weapons other than a dagger? Should I just allow it and follow the penalty rules as written in the DMG?

Where can I find good quality tables for generating my own hex map? I get severe choice paralysis whenever I sit down and try to design my own map from scratch.

Anybody here checked out Ars Magicka? I'm dying to play a character in that game. It sounds challenging and fun.

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>>52621317

Thanks mate.

Just so you know, I've updated a newer version that took out some stuff I didn't like, but most importantly added in the ability to have gun receivers separate from their munition, so now you can mix and match more gun parts. You can mix and match whichever ideas you personally like, I'm just trying to make the game as good as possible for my own taste, though I know yours won't exactly be the same.

>>52622868
Playing God-like D&D Wizards isn't enough of a power fantasy for you? don't worry Ars Magica has you covered, you now get to control a small fiefdom worth of character.

Plus you get the added bonus of masturbating on rpg.net about how much Vancian casting sucks because Wizards should be able to do everything better than every other class!

>>52622624
It says daggers or hand axes, the latter of which is a d6-damage weapon, so I don't see why including other d6-damage weapon would be problematic, unless the intent was to limit the power of classes that don't have access to hand axes, in which case, you could just say that only the warrior classes, assassins, and monks can use anything heavier than a dagger in their off-hand. Really, I think the stipulation should be whether or not you have shield or great weapon access. Otherwise, you'll always be incentivized to fight with two weapons, at least against targets that aren't too hard to hit.

If you need to roll a 14 and don't have a dexterity bonus to mitigate your two-weapon fighting penalties, you're probably better off sticking with one weapon. For every +1 reaction adjustment you have mitigating your penalties, that number shifts up 2 points. So with a +1 bonus, over 16 is the cut-off point. With +2, it's 18. With +3 it's 20. Approximately speaking, anyway. It's impossible to be exact, because some of this depends on the damage difference between your primary and secondary weapon.

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>>52623109
>I don't see why including other d6-damage weapon would be problematic

That's right! Stop stereotyping my weapon choice, shitlords!

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>>52621217
>I was going to steal some firearm rules from whoever writes The Garden, unless you guys know a better way to do guns and future stuff.
I like the gun rules in Fantastic Heroes & Witchery myself, as for Cyberpunk, well it depends on what sort of flavor you're going for, from an OSR perspective my favorite would be http://gameswithothers.blogspot.co.nz Troll World setting;
Trollworld
http://gameswithothers.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/troll-world.html

Trollomancer Class
http://gameswithothers.blogspot.co.nz/2014/02/trollomancer.html

Trollworld Items & NPC Reaction Charts
http://gameswithothers.blogspot.co.nz/2014/02/things-you-find-in-trollworld-magic.html

Troll Master Class
http://gameswithothers.blogspot.co.nz/2014/02/it-is-hard-to-find-cool-pictures-of.html

Trollworld City Encounter Chart
http://gameswithothers.blogspot.co.nz/2014/02/trollworld-city-encounters-d-wandering.html

really need to run a game in this setting someday

>>52618482

Keep in mind random encounters don't necessarily have to be an immediate fight to the death. In most of my encounter tables I add a percent chance for the encounter to be tracks or some other sign of the monster's presence.

If I roll a gelatinous cube encounter and get tracks I might describe slimy bones and armor discarded along the hallway, to keep them on their toes, and make a note to add the cube itself somewhere further along in the dungeon.

Maybe instead of throwing themselves at hte party those 2d4 goblins shit brix, run away, and if the party doesn't stop them somehow they warn the rest of the goon squad

>>52622999
sweet my dude, I'll give it a look-see. By the way: how has the existence of guns changed your OSR experience? Anything I should be on the lookout for as a GM?

The only guns I've had in my games are the flintlock variety, so not a big game changer. I'd figure more modern weapons would change things.

As yet a further side question, how do you run dungeon crawls in this setting? Can you tell us about an adventure you've run using this? I've got a couple interested players next to me and we'd like to hear about your games when you get a sec to write stuff down.

>>52618089
Roll a d20 and add relevant mods
DM compares it with THAC0 and enemy AC
DM calls hit or miss

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>>52623646
>By the way: how has the existence of guns changed your OSR experience? Anything I should be on the lookout for as a GM?
>As yet a further side question, how do you run dungeon crawls in this setting? Can you tell us about an adventure you've run using this? I've got a couple interested players next to me and we'd like to hear about your games when you get a sec to write stuff down.

Now I was planning on giving you some shit and making up some generic enough sounding advice to make myself look cool, especially when you said you've got interested players listening RIGHT NOW. But instead;

I haven't run one. That's part of the problem. It's an untested system in an untested setting. Every time I try to get players something bad happens; work schedules conflict, interesting players live in radical time zones, nobody wants to play my shitty homebrew, etc. So I'm just theorycrafting and spitballing until I get some actual OSR DM experience running Garden. Sorry to disappoint.

Now if you want to know HOW I would do it, sure. I'd share that, but otherwise I'm just telling you straight up that you will have to figure it out on your own.

>>52623104
really dude?
really?

I mean I know you are all "hardcore" and shit, but really?

>>52623993
Look at this fucking pleb, probably doesn't even know his pre-revolutionary French history, probably can't even name a 10 French towns with populations under 50.

>>52617966
>Why would the player know what someone else's AC is?
Because keeping it hidden slows things down for no appreciable benefit?

>>52624053
It was written by a post doctorate, what do you want? Its still a beautiful game.

>>52623924
how you'd do it is good enough. I halfway suspect everyone here barely games and uses /tg/ as an outlet.

>>52623528
So while that's actually rad as fuck, I was thinking of a more traditional dystopian future. None the less I'm bookmarking that stuff because... man is it neat.

I'll check out Fantastic Heroes and Witchery to see what the gun rules are like. Thank you kindly, anon.

>>52618859
>"it's a troll, get the fire even though my character has never seen one before" issue?

Have terrain make fire usage problematic. Like having the battle take place in knee-high water

>problematic
>problematic
>problematic
abandonthread.exe

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>>52623528
>Bio-Meat

My Nubian compatriot

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how would I make her as a b/x villain?

High-level MU or create a custom class for her?

>>52624372
I have never read that, but I assume they escape and start eating people?

Are the Wormskin magazines in the trove?

Can't seem to find them in there, so my guess is no. But worth a post I guess.

Thanks

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>>52624163

Well for one thing, instead of using wilderness exploration via hexcrawls I would use Neighbor hood-crawls. Going outside of Garden and into the dark forest around is pretty damn dangerous, that would be a legit form of wilderness hexcrawl. But for normal gameplay I'd imagine this would be a good way to do it.

As you travel through neighborhoods there are friendly NPCs, enemy gangs that may demand tribute/want to start fights. They'd be shops and businesses, as well as nice casinos taking the place of taverns to sit down at and find some rumors.

Once you get to the dungeons, it would probably be a derelict or decrepit old building. Parts of Garden no doubt have abandoned buildings and tenements. This is similar to how I want dungeons to be. Small dungeons may just be the size of a big house or apartment building, but big dungeons would be like old abandoned factories and resorts.

As for monsters and such, you can always use homeless people and gang members as humanoid opponents of various alien races. As for creatures; remember that Garden is a nexus of many worlds, so any of the worlds one of the alien species in Garden comes from could have a couple of their local weird creatures or plants brought over, which could explain anything.

Speaking of psychics, this is where you'll get most of your magic items, curses and other similar traps. Instead of touching the doorknob casting a spell on you, you'd get assaulted by psychic attacks or possessed by a malign intelligence or something, but the effects would be the same as if it was DnD.

Treasures are another part. There are an absolute huge amounts of interesting ideas here; from technology from other worlds, rare crafts and materials that are useful here, to treasures and luxuries rarely found. You could sell a regular chocolate bar for huge prices to the rich in the city, as coco doesn't grow here naturally. Weird alien beans, pig milk and night-corn syrup just don't taste the same.

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>>52620855
>really makes you think huh

Really makes me thing I should take up beekeeping instead of this weird-ass hobby.

Mostly because I've seen most of these questions asked on /tg/ before, especially the sex ones.

Working on some house rules for my B/X / LotFP game. Tinkering with classes and giving them some special toys, similar in scope to what DCC does with things like Mighty Deeds.
One of the additional mechanics I'm working on is providing a suite of class abilities that can be gained or upgraded on level-up.
I'm trying to find a good balance of achieving DCC's "fun toy" method without turning it in to an anti-fun 3.PF "character builds" shitfest.

The first step I'm taking is to try make every option cool, but the most desirable "must-have" ones will be built in to the class at level 1 and likely scale with your level. No need to spend upgrades on them and no butthurt from anyone at the table feeling like they are forced to play "optimally".

The second step is to make sure that none of them are already basic adventuring tasks locked behind a "feat tax". Many of ACKS' proficiencies are guilty of this and it made the game unenjoyable to me.

So far, each class will have 12 upgrade options. The first 6 will be generic for all classes, with perhaps some minor differences. Eg. attack bonus, save bonus, increase a specialist skill by 1 rank, increase base morale for certain retainer types, a healing ability of some sort (so that the Cleric doesn't have to be a healbot).

The remaining 6 will be additional class specific abilities that either work with their existing lvl1 stuff, or round out their skill set, or accentuate a certain play style. The main point is to experiment with new mechanics, give a class cool shit to do or reward them for doing cool shit. Like say, "wouldn't it be sick if the Barbarian could force a morale check on enemies every time they make a kill or score a critical hit? Screaming, bathing in blood, ripping arms off n' shit. That'll spook anyone."

I can post some actual examples if people want.

Is this a worthwhile road to follow, or am I doomed to end up in 3.PFville?

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>>52624656
>I can post some actual examples if people want.

Please do, but just 1 class. That will help this be more clear.

>Is this a worthwhile road to follow, or am I doomed to end up in 3.PFville?

Well, you're not doomed to end up there, but you just bought a ticket for the 3.5PFville bus, with overnight stops in Heartbreaker, Mechanics Hell, and Tinkertown.

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>>52622346

Thanks! Honestly, that's about all I have in writing so far, but I'll try and give an idea of what I'm going for.

>Overall Feel
The Moon is a dead world that is fundamentally hostile to life. Most of the surface is radiation-scoured dust, and the few landmarks are generally not places any sane human would seek out: the blister-like domed warrens of the Slavers, the crystalline spires of the moon liches, the deep caverns where polypous toad-beasts dwell, and the enigmatic Ebon Spire, a massive structure that floats a mile above the Sea of Crises (pic related).

Of courses, adventurers are all about shit like that, so there you go. The Moon is effectively a wilderness adventure for high-level PCs, where instead of tracking food, water, and torch supplies, you're tracking oxygen and mutations. Furthermore, it is a nega-wilderness in the same way that Death Frost Doom is a nega-dungeon: there are rewards here and there, but the risks to life, limb, and sanity is so great that you'd only really launch an expedition if there was a specific, overwhelming reason to do so (e.g., raid the great observatory of the mad moon lich Hrnthx-Grmlu to gain the secrets of the first moments of creation).

>Hexcrawl Adventures on the Moon
The vast majority of the Moon's surface is flat and barren. To reflect this, hexes are huge (maybe 24 miles across), and each one represents a day's travel. The Moon is flat enough that PCs can spot any points of interest within a hex once they're in it. Slaver warrens and the crystalline spires of the moon liches are dungeons; the Ebon Spire is a megadungeon if you can find a way into the damn thing. There may also be mini-dungeons scattered here and there: ruined ziggurats built by a former client race of the Slavers, or the wreckage of an ancient starship.

>>52624656
I'm currently working on an RPG with some leanings towards the OSR but also doing it's own thing where each race has their own unique classes. Elves, Dwarves and Halflings each have three classes (one 'pure' class and two 'hybrid' classes) but humans will have four, each one of those four will go into an archetype at level 3 (warriors can become berserkers or knights, mages become sorcerers or warlocks, etc). Each archetype modifies the base class but the base classes core still goes up as well.

It's hard to explain without showing and I'm typing this from my laptop which doesn't have my file on it, but maybe later I'll upload it to show.

For my two cents, I say go for it.

>>52622346
>>52624807

In addition to the aforementioned hard vacuum, eldritch radiation, and lunar dust, PCs also have to deal with active threats.

>Slavers
The Slavers are cunning and vicious insects that ply the lunar wastes in sleek black galleys. They are the degenerate descendants of a terrible lunar empire that mastered the arcane art of dimensional folding, allowing them to conquer and enslave the hapless inhabitants of myriad worlds. The empire was destroyed by decadence and infighting long before the first humans walked the earth, and the surviving Slavers are reduced to piecemeal raids when the ancient eldritch power they once commanded deigns to allow them to travel between worlds. They cling to faint effluvium of their greatness, horde priceless treasures, and plot and betray one another with well-practiced cruelty.

>>52624516
Yep. It's a pretty good read too, although a bit longish.

>>52624636
True, but it is oddly comforting to know that the hobby has always been a beacon for socially retarded weirdoes.

>>52622346
>>52624922

>Crystal Moon Liches
Masters of the psionic arts, bent double under the crushing weight of the crystalline structure that channels their psionic powers. They have transcended their bodies and corrupted their souls in their monomaniacal fervor to master the secrets of the mind, and sequester themselves in crystalline spires on the dark side of the Moon. Their goals are unnatural and inscrutable, and their methods are inimical to mortal life.

>Idea stolen wholesale from https://maziriansgarden.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-book-of-six-circles.html.

>>52624572
Thanks man, I appreciate it

>>52624656
>>52624749
Alright. I'll go with Specialist, since it is pretty simple.

Some examples ive come up with so far:

Use Magic Device - Gain a skill (which can't be trained otherwise) at 2-in-6, to read magic scrolls or use magical foci . May attempt to cast a spell from a scroll/focus as a M-U of the same level. Failing this check results in corruption.

Patient Stalker - May take an Aim action and still move. May also use Aim to prepare for a melee attack. If making a sneak attack after aiming, add the ATK bonus to Damage as well (after multiplying).

Contacts - One NPC in any settlement of village size or larger will be or make themselves known to the Specialist. The NPC will be a local and have pertinent information and resources in the local area. They may be an old friend/rival, member of a guild (friendly or rival) or just someone who has heard of the Specialist and their (famous/infamous) reputation. A reaction check determines how friendly/helpful they are likely to be

Dilettante - Choose an ability from a different Class' Level-Up list. If the entry relates to a special ability of that Class, then gain a single daily use of that ability (with the associated Level-Up benefit). If it relates to a spell, then randomly determine the spell.

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>>52625853
Remember not to make feats that say "you can only do X if you have a feat."

Let's take Use Magic Device. There's now a feat that's named "Use Magic Device". Can people without this feat use them?

Patient Stalker is fine. Contacts is meh. It'd be better if it was rolled (like in some FATE hacks) rather than guaranteed, to add for interesting story hooks. Dilettante is good design but seems uninteresting and almost parasitic in a way. Its' not interesting; it borrows interest from other classes.

But overall, you're making a game fiddlier. What's the gain? What problems are you targeting here?

>>52624807
>>52624922
>>52625611
So fucking cool, thanks for sharing.
>>52624572
Gardenman: how do you envision the city itself looking? Are the hoods like chicago? Are the buildings weird? Biological sometimes? What's it like?

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>>52618787
>Angband is the real most osr video game.
yeah, i can see that.

Armor as Damage reduction and Shields as Parry(armor class) does it makes sense?

>>52627133
Maybe

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In case anyone missed it a few threads back, I wrote up a Generic Cleric for Arnold K's GLOG system.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/04/osr-cleric-spells.html
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/04/osr-religion-in-elderstone.html

Next up: Summoners.

Animist Wizards never.

>>52625919
Thanks for the feedback.
I'm not trying to fix anything. B/X is just fine on its own.
However, my group enjoyed a lot of aspects of DCC, but got burned out on table fatigue. I thought id take a crack at introducing some of that "fun toys" stuff, without the unneccesary bloat.

Magic items are useable by anyone. Scrolls, wands, rods & staves are M-U only. This let's the specialist try it. DCC has the same as a Thief skill.

I like guaranteeing things. It makes Contacts an interesting choice fir a role player. They get a tangible benefit which they can leverage for the benefit of the campaign. Making the contact possibly a rival ensures interesting conflicts are prompted. Admittedly it is for players and dm's that enjoy improv challenges.

>>52625919
>Let's take Use Magic Device. There's now a feat that's named "Use Magic Device". Can people without this feat use them?
Assuming functions similarly to the way it does in modern D&D, this is essentially just a broader version of the AD&D ability for thieves to read scrolls, which is an expansion, not a limitation. It just enables thieves to use cleric and magic-user specific voodoo.

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I've been playing a bit more Diablo 1 and Darkest Dungeon lately, and it's been making me itch for something a little specific. I've been thinking about writing up a module/setting and a few custom classes for either B/X or LotFP. Does this idea sound like it would make for an interesting couple of interesting sessions, or is it too specific?

The players would all assume the role of someone on either side of an ill-fated crusade sometime in the early 1200's. They'd pick between Fighter, Cleric, and Occultist. Things go terribly wrong; turns out the holy land is under siege by demonic monsters. The idea is that it's a sort of pointcrawl with the ultimate goal being Jerusalem. It'd be fun to play something with Ayyubids and crusaders teaming up to fight horrific monstrosities, and the simplicity of an OSR shell sounds like it'd be the best for this sort of thing.

>>52624807
>(maybe 24 miles across), and each one represents a day's travel.
All the more reason to tie all your life-support consequences to days instead of hours.

>>52626951
Why was everything asleep?

>>52627182
>Animist Wizards never.
May you fail at everything you do.

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>>52628894
Well on my way good buddy.

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I'm thinking about moving all my sheets and map into a binder. Should I?

>>52628837
Excellent point. I'll make the changes.

>>52626951
If I saw that I'd be back up the stairs before the piss hit my pants.

>>52628877
A lot of monsters start out asleep in Angband, or have very limited patrol territories. It gives you some leeway to plan your movements and make sure you only run into the monsters worth the risk and resources. Zephyr hounds can ruin your day and don't drop anything, Quylthulgs can go fuck themselves. That ancient red dragon probably has some good shit but if you don't have double fire resistance it can vaporize you with one breath attack.

Like OSR dungeon crawling, Angband isn't about killing shit, at least until the last two floors. It's about getting the treasure and getting the fuck out before It breathes... [more] You die.

Is there an index of all Polyhedron Magazine topics somewhere? Because I have far too many of them to just skim through for stuff I might find interesting or relevant.

>>52626000

Sorry for late response.

>how do you envision the city itself looking?
Depends on the region. Garden is the entire setting, it's the ONLY civilized place known to the people in that weird alternate dimension. It has styles of architecture depending on the age, class, and races of a district.

I want part of it to look like a high class Victorian/New England style area. Lots of the city would look like 1920s new york, art deco everywhere. Some of the city would be like a shanty town, and some would have those super fancy modern buildings, but shrunk down a bit. Regardless of style each building would be wrapped in electropunk-style cables, lights and naturally there would be tons of added additions like balconies, walkways, outside elevators, many of which just hanging on by wires and shoddy construction, but somehow doesn't fall down.

The additions are another big part of the urban sprawl. Naturally Garden is a city filled with many immigrants and expansion is constant, but so to is renovation. Imagine a small stone bridge over a dry canal, and imagine someone building a house using part of the bridges arch and rood for the dwelling. Garden has a lot of places like that. Probably home to a guy who can make guns that talk or something too.

I'd imagine alien architecture would play a part, but I don't have much in progress on that. I can see really gaudy ass paint jobs though.

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I love complex experience counts.

I love bonuses or penalties to exp for high/low ability scores. I love different classes needing a different amount before gaining a level. I love individual class awards. I love giving different amounts for clever ideas and good roleplaying. I love all manner of carousing rules. I'm even considering adding the hit-point-based experience count from 1st edition AD&D even though I play 2e.

I'm a firm believer that there's no middleground in experience points: either you use all the complicated bullshit algorithms you can, or you might as well just ignore experience points altogether and throw levels at your characters when you feel like it. I choose the former.

What other needlessly complex experience point houserules are there that I could appropriate?

>>52624456
Make evil milf porn instead

>>52630070
What's that table from? System? Is it something balanced (and tested) for long campaigns?

>I love giving different amounts for clever ideas and good roleplaying.
How do you measure that?

>hit-point-based experience count from 1e
Tell me more / page ref?

Personally I've been thinking about going full retard and making all classes level up at once. Even using 5e XP table. I already award XP for all dungeon encounters, even if avoided. Prime % were discarded long ago. Pls stop me.

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>>52630441
>What's that table from? System? Is it something balanced (and tested) for long campaigns?

2e DMG. Given the system was the main thing for over a decade, I'd say it was at least reasonably tested. I tend to buff them up a fair bit later on, because they tend to completely lose their value after the first few levels: 450 experience for casting a level 9 spell obviously won't matter shit when you need like 250k points to level up

>How do you measure that?

By gut. Usually somewhere from 10 to 100 points on first level, depending on how good shit it was they just did. On later levels it can be more.

>Tell me more / page ref?

1st edition DMG, page 85.

>Personally I've been thinking about going full retard and making all classes level up at once. Even using 5e XP table. I already award XP for all dungeon encounters, even if avoided. Prime % were discarded long ago. Pls stop me.

Eh, going down the simple route is fair enough if you have less time or autism than myself. It probably doesn't add a whole lot to the game, it just tickles my math bone.

>>52630070
I dunno, I like the simplicity of gold-for-xp. Makes it easier for players to focus on what's fun with D&D rather than doing a bunch of random stuff and asking if that nets them any xp. DMs handing out levels just like that isn't very fun or rewarding either, it just turns into the players going "Wait, what? We get a level? Okay I guess..."

>>52630672
I don't think anyone in my group has ever noticed anything anyway. They do their stuff as they normally would, whether it earns them any experience or it doesn't. So it's not really a problem, and they can still enjoy the simplicity of it while leaving all the fun math to me.

Hell, they don't even spend all that much gold in partying or philanthropy, even though they -know- it gets them exp.

>>52630672
>>52630693
It's not a big deal in Advanced. In Basic, lethality is so taxing that players only think about getting XP asap, and as safely as possible. Lots of ""bad"" practices come from that, to the point I'm thinking about switching to AD&D or a hacked down 5e...

What's the most grating rpg trope when you play osr?

For me:
>party is formed or gains new member
>hurr durr we don't trust the new guyssss
ffs get that delve going already

Meet In Taverns too, but that doesn't happen in my games.

>>52631383
The only thing that grinds my gears when playing OSR is when a player brings modern preconceptions to an oldschool game then whines and complains incessantly that either the DM is an asshole or the game is poorly designed.
Is that a trope?

>>52630070
Successful use of an NWP.

Using an NWP untrained.

Wielding fighter's specialized weapon.

Wielding a weapon they're not proficient in.

Fighting with any manner of rust,while cursed, wading in shallow water, or other sort of negative circumstances, for you learn a lot faster when shit goes against you.

Conversely, positive circumstances - magic weapons, buffs, etc. - give an experience penalty.

You could also use the hilariously stupid ability score percentile exp table that was posted a thread or two ago. Should fit you fine.

>>52628583

Sounds great. The dark fantasy / medieval reality aesthetic works really well with OSR. I also know a lot of people on this website in particular love the idea of being Crusaders and would eat that shit up.

I'm trying to create an "alternate" class for each of the standard 4 (Fighter/Thief/Cleric/Magic-User). Something that fills a similar role, but plays a little differently.

For instance, Fighter:Barbarian. Fighter hits reliably and makes better use of heavier armours. A Barbarian critical hits more reliably and wears less armour (becoming more mobile).

For Thief, I was thinking of either going with Ranger, or splitting Thief up into two classes. One being the sneaky assasin/thug and the other being the thievy/dungeoneering type.
If going with Ranger, the dichotomy would be one of Thief = Dungeon survival, Ranger = Wilderness survival.

However, I'm mostly stuck on what to do with Clerics and M-U's. I like running low fantasy, so stuff like Druids and Warlocks are not a great fit thematically. I like LotFP's thing of Law (Clerics) being a counter to Chaos (M-U). So perhaps the Cleric can be split up into one class being an undead-smashing warpriest, and the other a "witch hunter". They might be too similar, but so are fighter/barbarian.

Perhaps for M-U there could be a non-spellcasting class that otherwise is affected by chaos. Hard to think of something that isn't high fantasy or special snowflake though. Maybe an alchemist class that can harvest guts of monsters and brew it into potions that give the drinker similar abilities. But Alchemists are already mundane retainers in my games.

What do you lot think?

>>52631403
I'm not sure if that's trope, but I can't stand that crap either. Keep your SJW bs out of my game and away from my table. No one cares that you want to play a sombrero wearing transsexual latin/x otherkin dwarf who's parents disowned them and wants to champion the rights of other Mexican tranny dwarves.... It's honestly the most annoying shit.
These same players get super pissy that no one wants to get into their stupid political correctness campaign and just want to slay enemies and get gold.

>>52631625
I was more complaining about 3.PF babbies who can't handle high lethality, not having a menu of videogame special moves to choose from and the DM having the actual power to make judgement calls instead of being just a talking rulebook reference.

If you want to be a tranny dwarf, then go for it. You do you.

Would making combatants fighting with a one-handed or small/medium sized weapon attack before someone with a two-handed or large weapon be a bit unfair?

I'm using 2e btw.

>>52631660
They already generally do, the way initiative works in 2e. You can further emphasize this by having someone with a one-handed light weapon roll 1d8 or something for initiative, while the guy with the big two-handed sword has to roll 1d12.

>>52631625
I care little for political correctness or transsexuals or whatever, but personally, even in an OSR game, I'd like to play as, and in a group consisting of, folk that can be sympathetic and generally all right, instead of a bunch of greedy sociopathic madmen who would kill one another for their share of the loot if such a situation presented itself.

Would this sort of a thing be possible in OSR, or am I bound to be a bastard?

>>52631657
I dig it, I really do, and that's basically what I should've said... I'm jaded because we had a player try to join the group and literally wanted to play that exact same character I described.
When not a single other member of the group didn't care about the newbies identity politics, the new player screamed that we were all homophobic assholes and came close to calling the police to have us arrested at the hobby shop...
It really pissed off the gay member of the group, let me tell ya. It was also pretty silly seeing as how I am the gay member of that group....

>>52631687
No not at all.
It's fine if a character wants to play a gay character or whatever that's perfectly ok. There's no black and white issue here:
Either your players will be sociopathic murder hobos or they won't. Admittedly the worst situation i ever had was a party of 4 theives that kept stealing things off each other as a joke. It was actually pretty amusing

>>52631660
I solely use 2e, as it's my favorite and after DMing for over 25 years this (>>52631672) is probably the best solution I've seen yet.
I'm doing that from now on

>>52631795
gotcha.

I left a group that I was playing with for years because the stars aligned and they all decided at once to all "magical realm" with their characters.

For years were fantastic players and at worst, someone would play the opposite gender but still basically be themselves.

But all in the one new campaign they independently decided to reveal their fetishes. One guy was basically a furry, another one into BDSM and self harm, another a shy "kawaii" loli girl.

I couldn't run my run-of-the-mill euro medieval sandbox without it being derailed by awkward almost-ERP.

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Do you guys happen to have a hexcrawl generator? And by that I don't mean a program or something, but a bunch of table to roll on for creating environments and events.

>>52631996
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay has the Renegade Crowns supplement, which is about the best of this sort I've seen.

Well, it uses squares rather than hexes, but that's about it.

>>52631929
I'm 41 very fast approaching 42... my best recommendation is to find grognard dorks like me. I say that because I've never had a situation like that (or what I described) with older players.
Another thing I've noticed with younger players is that they are basically obsessed with romance in their plotlines/campaigns, to the point that they'll spend an entire 4 hour game session talking about an imaginary romance with an NPC when no one else at the table gives a frogs fat ass about it.
We're all older and either married or in a long term relationship... we get together and escape reality with D&D to avoid that kind of shit, lol

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So what's up with helmets?

They were just about the first piece of armor ever invented, and the last piece to be phased out. Yet there aren't a whole lot of rules in any of the games I know on how to put them to use.

What happens if you wear full plate armor without a helmet? What if you go shirtless like Conan but put a helmet on?

>>52631996
AD&D 1e DMG

>>52632418
There was a DCC houserule for helmets in a zine I think.

I don't remember exactly, but I think you would take a penalty to some actions in exchange for soaking up one or two critical hits. Kind of like the popular splintered shields houserule.

>>52632418
I use a system that allows a saving throw to avoid a critical hit against a player if theu are wearing a helmet.
I'm sure there's probably better ideas out there, but that's what I do.
(I play 2e, so the save is vs petrification)

>>52632614
>splintered shields houserule
explain please?

>>52632418
There's a rule in the AD&D DMG that says that if you don't wear a helmet and get attacked, there's a 1-in-6 chance that the head is struck in which case the attacker only needs to roll against unarmored AC.

>>52632651
any time you take damage you can opt to sacrifice the shield to absorb it. It might save you from a lethal blow but thereafter it is ruined and unusable.

>>52631383
>People pretend like quests didn't exist prior to the 80's, same with guilds etc.

4e made people obsessive about this shit

>>52632725
Thanks anon, that's a decent rule.
I'd make the shield get a saving throw to see if it is splintered, but other than that it's a good one

>>52632725
Speaking of shields, would using this rule, along with all the Player's Option stuff about proficiencies and parrying, make shields -too- powerful?

>>52632987
I've never used the players options rules for the most part. Again, after DMing for 25+ years I lean towards less rules and more role play.
I have no idea what the P.O. rules are on partying but I handle it thusly:
During declaration phase (before initiative is rolled) the character has to declare they are gonna party attacks.
When they are attacked the person attacking them rolls their attacks and the player has to roll higher than the attacker to party it, and they get no attacks that round.

>>52633052
>I have no idea what the P.O. rules are on parrying but I handle it thusly

Something similar to yours: if the defender beats AC 4 by a wider margin than the attacker hit them, the hit is parried.

There's also stuff about combining it with dual-wielding, to allow you to parry attacks and still get a hit of your own out, with the standard -2/-4 penalties to your rolls.

>>52633052
>>52633087
Oh, and you can also spend a proficiency point to a shield to get higher AC out of it: instead of getting +1 from a medium shield, for instance, you'd get +3.

You lose all shield bonuses if you parry an attack, unless you've got a point in weapon & shield style as well.

>>52629271
>If I saw that I'd be back up the stairs before the piss hit my pants.
I posted that from an LP someone did - when they were posting the original thread, I'd giggle for a minute straight at every ridiculous list of monsters.

That thread had some great stuff, including another guy who went into all sorts of detail on whatever overpowered build he was going to demo, started building up to ultimate power, and never failed to die to something stupid before it kicked off.

>>52632735
Quite a few people seem to think that Corellon being a bisexual man/woman/hermaphrodite is a SJW plot to infect 5e when he's been like that since 1e.

Just like >>52631625 fails to realize that 70s sci-fi and fantasy (which form the bedrock for early D&D) would be totally down with such a character, as long as there was moral ambiguity and sex.

>>52633257
I AM a child of the 70ies, you nitwit. Born in 75, read all the classic fiction too.
Please don't launch insults when you have no fucking idea what your talking about

>>52633257
In addition, Correllan (the even head god) in 1e was described as being a male elven F-MU type.
Again, when you have no idea what you're talking about, just stfu

>>52633332
He's right, though.

>>52633387
He isn't though... and that's the point

>>52633257
I don't know what timeline your posting this from but I remember New Wave being universally disliked and now is almost completely forgotten.

How does a low-level character descend to the underworld and survive? What manner of challenges would they encounter therein?

>>52633599
Define Underworld I guess...
If you mean the Underdark then start with 1/2 hit dice creatures like kobolds and goblins as a vanilla starting point.
Also, make sure the PCs have an out to get rest and heal, whether it's an easy route back to the surface or a secret room or whatever to rest in.

>>52633665
>Define Underworld I guess...

Actual, mythological underworld. i.e. hell.

Well, technically Grey Waste would be closer, but you know what I mean.

>>52633673
I find that a lot of DMs feel the need to have specific creatures for everything. In this case off the top of my head just use weak, unintelligent spirits to start... basically the same stats as the aforementioned goblins and kobolds just with a different appearance

>>52633332
>I AM a child of the 70ies, you nitwit. Born in 75
So you didn't actually experience any of the 70s at all. You're like a kid born in '85 saying that he knows what the 80s are like.

>read all the classic fiction too.
i.e. you only read the bare minimum of meme-books without diving deep into the medium.

>>52633373
>it was unpopular and was forgotten so doesn't count!
What's wrong, too problematic for (You)?

>>52633373
Epic knowledge bomb, 70s kid (who actually grew up in the 80s)
http://thecampaign20xx.blogspot.co.nz/2016/07/dungeons-dragons-guide-to-corellon-god.html

Are there any good ship graveyard maps anywhere?

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>>52633785
Forgot where I was for a minute...
Pic related is you, mr hipster gamer guy

>>52633849
To me it looks like you're the one doing the projecting.

What's wrong with the Corellon guide? It rather proves you wrong, doesn't it?

>>52633893
It's not the guide, it's your demeaning vocabulary and implying that I didn't read this or that so I don't know blah blah. You are what's wrong with gaming
Also
>problematic
SJW bs right there, opinion discarded

>>52633673
Hire on as an escort on a trade caravan. Elves send their tithe of children to hell - you really think they're not taking the opportunity to do a little trading on the side? And you really think they're not willing to hire humans to die in their place should they be attacked?

>>52633915
>demeaning

You're being just as bad, nimrod. Least you could do would be to admit you're wrong

>>52633935
I'm not wrong though, a God can appear as whatever they want, you mongoloid

>>52634007
Then why would 5e go on its way to point out what it did out of Corellon? If it made such a big deal out of it, why shouldn't we dig the exact same stuff up from the older editions to show it's always been like that?

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[distant, muted laughter]

>>52631403

Yeah, it's common enough.
>this shit relies on DM fiat and Mother-May-I! It's garbage!
>My character is EXACTLY the same as Kevin's! Look at our sheets! Same class and everything!
>Dwarf is a class? How come I can't be a Dwarf Sorceror/Druid multiclass? What faggot designed this bullshit?

>>52634007
I'm siding with this anon. I'm pretty sure that they didn't write up Corellan that was to signal he was gay or whatever other labels you want to use.
Also, both of you are retarded for arguing about absolutely nothing

>>52634047
>comparing 5e with BECMI/1e
pls stop

>>52634095
That was the exact fucking issue from the beginning, you fuckbucket: bringing up how 5e's herm Corellon actually was always like that.

You can't just suddenly go and be like "Speak not of 5e in this house!" when you're losing.

At this point I'm fairly sure Forgotten Realms belongs with 3e on the list of D&D Things That Cause Brain Damage, and I'm not entirely sure that elves don't.

>>52634063
>Dwarf is a class? How come I can't be a Dwarf Sorceror/Druid multiclass? What faggot designed this bullshit?

This one's kind of a strawman. You're bringing up the single most ridiculous race/multiclass combination to hide the fact that race-as-class is objectively garbage.

>>52634116
>losing
That's all this is about to you: winning
Grow up, learn to disagree and move on. You kids these days are such petulant fucking assholes

>>52634062
This
Thread derail because 2 people don't agree and now it's a shitfest.

>>52634148
>learn to disagree

It was never about disagreeing, it was about what books say. If we listened to you, old man, we might as well just ignore all the books and play freeform.

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>>52634146
>objectively garbage

>objectively

>>52634170
>old man
Thanks for proving my point

>>52634189

You do know he's mocking you with that "old man" and "problematic" stuff, don't you?

>>52634186
Can you provide an argument to why they aren't garbage? How come literally every nonhuman creature out there is completely identical?

>>52634207
I figured it's just a no nothing fucktarded troll

>>52634217
Humans are fucked-up.

>>52634124
But FR has heroic dark-skinned nudist elf freedom fighter sluts.

>>52634224
>no nothing
I hate to be the baron of bad news. . .

>>52634261
>But FR has heroic dark-skinned nudist elf freedom fighter sluts.

Just because it gives you brain damage doesn't automatically make it -bad-.

>>52634279
Yeah, I mean the original boxed set is good, and presumably Greenwood's doing OK, it's just it's very easy to fall down the slippery slope into a pile of trash and become obsessed with the trash and start caring far too deeply about the canon of the trash and start complaining when other people don't treat the trash like you do.

>>52634261
>no nothing
>I hate to be the baron of bad news
It's a art. If your the same dude I was arguing with, kudos to you duder, that was funny

>>52634217
>How come literally every nonhuman creature out there is completely identical?

Well you can start by recognizing that adventurers are a subset of the population rather than a representation of the whole. Suicidal weirdos who will go dive into ancient ruins filled with horrors to rob tombs are not the norm. Dwarves, elves, and halflings who leave their homes and families to run off with some human hoodlums and do such disgraceful work are not regular upstanding members of their society, they're the juvenile delinquents. They're the kids from the nice suburbs who quit school, run away from home, and join a street gang. That there are no Dwarven forgemasters or Elven scholars among them is only natural.

>>52634062
Fucking One Eye.
Go fuck Kurthulmak.

>>52634388
>Go fuck Kurthulmak.
You should leave this thread Garl

>>52634415
Make me Green Asshole.
Or are you too busy swallowing Erythnul's nut milk?

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>deities of the subhumans are all sexual degenerates

REALLY makes you think

>>52634378
Fair enough, given that in OSR adventurer motivations tend to be far more narrow than in the other, later games. It'd still be nice to have a bit more options, though: there's really still no particular reason to be so rigid about it even if it can sort of be justified.

AD&D class limitations are a good compromise, I feel.

The elf god being agendered is hardly a lefty plot, he was described as bring androgynous in Deities and Demigods.
There's a decent number of androgynous deities in real myths, Ardha of hindu myth and Hermaphrodite of greek come to mind

>>52634552
Demi-Humans just exist to satisfy our magical realms

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Consider the following:
>to gain the powers of adventurers, people must form "contracts" with strange "kyubees"
>(maybe people can get to level 1 or 2 without a contract but beyond that they need to make a deal)
>not everyone can see kyubees; there's legends of them but 75% of the populace will never see one
>for the contract, the kyubees receive your soul and you receive your powers
>your soul is place into a "soul gem" that allows your body to continue functioning despite severe damage (i.e. 2+ HD)
>all these orgies and carousing (spending GP) and daring adventures are just trying to stave off the gnawing emptiness that's growing where your soul used to be
>eventually, your despair will overwhelm you and shatter your soul gem, creating a pocket dimension called a "dungeon" while what's left of you becomes a "dungeon master"
>the dungeon links to the real world and is based on the psychic landscape of the adventurer that spawned it
>for example, a thief who specialized in disguise and always wanted to live the high life might spawn a dungeon that's nothing but mansion rooms and fancy gardens people with mimics and doppelgangers while his dungeon master form is some sort of super-doppelganger

Would you play it?

>>52635006
Kinda bleak.

>>52635006
Honestly, no. But that's just me

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>>52635022
>>52635048

>>52634777
What about monstrous humanoids?

>>52635006
Isn't that just Chaosium's Stormbringer?

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>>52635573
It's actually Puella Magi Madoka Magica (aka Japanese Faust With Angsty Teen Girls)

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnY_2qC1L34
>Dave Arnesson let PCs find and eat "superberries" which would let them throw higher level spells

70s Blackmoor was funky, man.

Are there random dungeon generators that give you a bunch of rooms without actually making a whole dungeon out of scratch? Like, say you were using one of Dyson's maps and just needed a bunch of shit to fill them with?

Hello everyone.

Wondering of the 3 big megadungeons which one people find the easiest to run. Stonehell, Dwimmermount, or Barrowmaze?

Looking to get the megadungeon action going. If someone has a suggestion outside of those three, then please do tell.

>>52636360
Rappan Athuk, Night Wolf Inn.

>>52636342
https://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.co.nz/2014/02/stock-dungeon-with-rooms-that-dont-suck.html

>>52632418
I was thinking about a writing up a "head shot" rule where you take a -4 penalty to your attack roll and +1 to AC and if you succeed then you deal an additional damage dice. Wearing a great helm increases the penalty or something.

Is raising the AC bonus to +2 for shields too much. You are reducing the chance of an enemy hitting you by 10% after all.

>>52636099
Arnesson is a massive asshole when you start researching, stole credit and money from other early day contributors.

>>52632651
>>52632725
Sounds like a good idea but what is stopping a player from bringing along 10 bucklers?

>>52636954
weight?

>>52637051
Bucklers cost 1 gold piece and weight 3 pounds. Also what about picking up shields from dead enemies?

Anyone looked into the Blackmoor setting? anything good

>>52637065
Then time between dropping your shield and grabbing a new one, you could be killed

>>52637098
Talking about after a battle here.

>>52637310
Then i don't see a problem, what is stopping the player from bringing x quantity of useful items?

Running Quasqueton, using a *simplified* map with half of the original corridors and overall nicer layout. The party spent 1/3 of the session in boring, boring corridors or deciding if their map was right or getting confused by which corridors are which or blah blah. Fuck this. This is not where the action is. Corridors are boring.

>>52636954
>but what is stopping a player from bringing along 10 bucklers?
Wasn't this a common practice among early Viking because their shields broke so often?

>>52637494
>D&D is a swords and sorcery rpg!
>proceed to use hours of real-time mapping, searching for trap, etc. that in a real swords and sorcery game would be handwaved away in under 5 minutes

What did Gygax mean by this?

>>52637327
Encumberance. It's not always the weight, but how bulky something is.

>>52637698
I mean, yes. I let them search per room, eyeball movement (or plain skip it - in explored parts I roll a few encounters if anything) and skip encumberance too -- as long as it's reasonable.
And I like a resource-based game.
But.
Seriously.

>>52634062
Looks like a pussy.

>>52632018
Can you give us a short run on why it's that good?
It seems rather intriguing.

>>52637938
It's got stuff for generating the landscape, the towns and settlements, the dungeons, the tribes and threats, the lords, and local history: pretty much all you need for this sort of an OSR hexcrawl undertaking. The tables are easy to use and generally full of flavor, and the landscape itself is created in a fun way.

All dungeons have some deadly secret that the player characters can unwittingly unleash, and all the lords have relationships between one another to exploit. There are guidelines on how to bind the setting history and the tribes and menaces to these things as well.

And because it's Warhammer, the tone is probably just what you're looking for: grim, dirty, and lowly, with greedy bastards all around, including the party. The downside is that it's also rather bound to the setting, with the surrounding kingdoms and Chaos and other shit like that, but it's easy to change how you see fit if you feel like it.

Also, "the best I've ever seen" doesn't necessarily imply "good", though it still is: there just isn't a whole lot of stuff like this going on so I haven't seen many supplements at all to compete with this.

>>52638101
>"the best I've ever seen" doesn't necessarily imply "good"
Just realized that this applies to any OSR product.
And life in general

>>52630070
Adapt beliefs and instincts from Burning Wheel. Whenever you complete a belief, or your instinct gets you in trouble, earn experience.

>>52636921
I do think that -1 for shields seems a bit pathetic when you consider how useful shields are in real life. I don't know that this would have too profound an effect on AC, though obviously you'd want to balance out alternatives to shields. Two-handed weapons should be increased from 1d10 to 2d6 damage at the very least.

how good is advanced dnd? negative AC scares me a little but i think i am missing something

>>52638725
2e with the 1e DMG is GOAT

>>52634217
>How come literally every nonhuman creature out there is completely identical?
>the game rules correspond to laws of nature in the setting
gb2 >>>/3.pfgen/

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>>52638725
AD&D has a decent bit more in the way of options over Basic. There are a lot more spells, magic items, and classes. Unfortunately, AD&D adds a lot of fiddly rules and restrictions, even where doing so achieves little. Even the spells it shares with Basic tend to have more moving parts. And the additional classes tend to be derivative (it's a fighter, but with some special abilities and eventual access to spells, etc.), so I'd say that Basic is a significantly better game, at least for the stuff it actually covers.

>>52639229
How easy is it to play Basic but add the stuff you like from Advanced?

Has anyone converted the b/x or lotfp spell lists to be levelless?
I was thinking of doing it myself but i thought id check to see if some good gentleman has done it for me already

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>>52639306
Let me make it as easy as possible for you.

>>52630070
Maybe that a look at Rolemaster's xp rules.

>>52622346
Yeah I'd love to see the mooncrawl stuff put into a nicely formatted PDF. Fantasy stuff in space is fucking rad.

>>52639523
>Has anyone converted the b/x or lotfp spell lists to be levelless?

Just use 2e Psionics.

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>>52631579
If your Barbarians have a "no armor" bent, you might as well call them Berserks.
Go the whole nine yards. Bear-skin shirts, drug trips before fights... the works.

Thief/Ranger seems fine, but it feels like you're screwing one or the other at any time.
Maybe go with Scout and Scoundrel? Or something to that effect.
If you do stick with Thief/Ranger, take a page from Lord Dunsany and call your Thieves Jewelers.

I can't split Cleric any better than Church-Militant/Vampire-Hunter.

Illusionist is an excellent juxtaposition to Magic-User.
Especially if you give MUs a flashy bent (fireball, knock, web, etc.)

>>52639306
Very fucking easy. Armor class is a bit different (1 point higher/worse for leather or lighter armor in AD&D), hit dice are bigger (1 die bigger for everybody but magic-users and their sister class, illusionists, who stay at a d4), and there's plenty of shit in AD&D that Basic doesn't have, but they use the same core system. AD&D is sort of like Basic with a shit ton of house rules stacked on top.

Also, Labyrinth Lord's Advanced Edition Companion, which >>52639537 posted, tries to give you AD&D's expanded options, but with Basic's more streamlined general rules. It doesn't go far enough in the direction of Basic to satisfy me, but it's still a marked improvement over AD&D.

So I started with 4e, played a bit of Pathfinder, went back to 4e and was fully convinced I would never play 5e.

Well I played 5e and I love it. I bought LOTFP because I've always wanted to do a high lethality, old school dungeon crawl where Elf is a class. Is that the best way to start or should I grab 2e or even AD&D?

>>52640255
AD&D and LotFP both do that sort of a game well, but the former especially is going to be a doozy to get into, and B/X is probably going to function better than either of them while still being easier to learn.

Start with Basic book, then move on to Advanced if you feel like it.

>>52640255
>I bought LOTFP because I've always wanted to do a high lethality, old school dungeon crawl where Elf is a class. Is that the best way to start or should I grab 2e or even AD&D?
2e doesn't have race-as-class, is a little less brutal than Basic and doesn't focus to much on dungeon crawls. If you want AD&D, I would recommend 1e.

what are some good lightweight systems?

>>52640417
AD&D 2e with Skills & Powers

>>52640417
I'm a big fan of BFRPG

all free, basically just a oldschool D&D

I'm surprised it doesn't get mentioned more, but I don't frequent these threads too much

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>>52640417
Whitehack, Microlite 74, and Into The Odd are some good ones

>>52640417
ACKS, Beyond the Wall, The Black/Blue Hack, Holmes Other Game, LotFP and Dark Dungeons

>>52640500
>Into The Odd
What does it do different from other clones?

>>52640473
I've heard of it, and its been mentioned here, but I have never found a need to play it over ACKS. I am willing to listen though if you want to inform me.

>>52639229
>AD&D adds a lot of restrictions
I'm actually a huge fan of race specific kits and class restrictions, it just makes so much more sense to me.

>>52640719
It's not a clone, is the main thing
It's a very distinct system. 3 stats, lots of sources of stat damage. No classes, only magic is from items (arcanum) but some characters are better at bending them to their will then others.
No rolls to hit, fighting monsters generally makes bad stuff happen straight off the bat.

ACKS or DCC?

I've been liking DCC but when it comes to pure OSR dungeon crawling there's something... I dunno. The more I read the kind of world it wants to be, the more I ask "why would anyone be an adventurer in this world?"

>>52641206
ACKS but ignore proficiencies

A reminder to shill you're OSR stuff if you want people to read it.

3w<dot>kickstarter<dot>com /projects /autarch /heroic-fantasy-and-barbarian-conquerors-collection

>>52641206
you have to understand that Goodman Games' idea of "old school" has always been meme-y. Remember their original DCC line for 3.5? The one whose slogan was something to the effect of "remember when dungeons were full of treasure, NPCs were all meant to be killed, and there was a dragon on the 20th level?"

DCC RPG is also a meme, this one based on charts, high lethality, and a dash of adversarial GMing.

>>52640922
Never tried ACKS myself so I don't have much to say beyond 'BFRPG is free'

>>52639229
I feel like the best way to play is to start with Basic and add the rules from the 1e PHB and DMG that think add to your game.

>>52641249
bad grammar and shilling

>>52636360
Barrowmaze > Stonehell > Dwimmermount in terms of both complexity and subjective fun. Stonehell's levels are just four unrelated dungeons stitched together per floor and the end result feels kind of jank and disjointed. Dwimmermount has lots and lots of complex backstory and puzzles that the PC's will probably never find out or care about, but the dungeon by itself is mostly pretty bland until you get way deeper into it. Barrowmaze's sprawling design and heavy focus on rival factions in the dungeon can make it a bit tricky to keep everything straight, but it's well worth it.

>>52636935
>Arnesson is a massive asshole
I couldn't agree more... I've met the man on multiple occasions and he was always a pompous ass

>>52636935
>>52641921
t. ghost of Gary "good guy" Gygax

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>>52636954
>Sounds like a good idea but what is stopping a player from bringing along 10 bucklers?

What's wrong with having a lovable urchin named Bismarck follow you around with a stack of spare shields?

Nothing at all.

Shields give you +1 Defense or AC or whatever. They take up a hand, and reduce the damage you deal with a heavy weapon from d8 to d6. They also basically act as instant-speed healing potions with the sunder rule. That's a pretty decent set of interlocking systems.

How do you guys manage hunger? do you think 5 levels of hunger is too much?
Full
Satisfied
Hungry
Very Hungry
Starving

Each one with different penalties

Also adventurers eat once a day?

>>52642210
Not gonna lie, any system that allows you to bring a hireling that just hands you all of your crazy weapons sounds like a fun one.

>>52639699

Thanks man! I'll definitely make a PDF of the crawl rules once I actually write them down. In the meantime, I'm gonna try and get what I have so far up in a blog post. I'll drop the link here soon.

>Fantasy stuff in space is fucking rad.
Goddamn right.

>>52617764
I use ascending AC as target.

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>>52642729
>Not gonna lie, any system that allows you to bring a hireling that just hands you all of your crazy weapons sounds like a fun one.

That's pretty much all systems.

"Hiring a guy to hand you stuff" is a time-honoured medieval tradition. Hold my horse. Hand me my wine. Fetch that book.

>>52640954
Same desu.

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Can I please get a quick rundown on ACKS? How does combat differ?

>>52637065
Yes, if your shield breaks (which happened) and a defeated enemy had a shield, you would take it and use it.

>>52637654
Bringing spares is common among everyone.

>>52642729
Tower of Druaga had a mage who cast spells by summoning a little glowing ball and smacking it with basically a magic golf club. His caddy had a ridiculous golf bag full of clubs for every situation. It was great.

>>52643564
Feather me yon oaf.

>>52644701
>4e reference

>>52632418
If you have enough armor to gain it's AC, then by extension you're wearing a helmet.
Dropping enough armor gives you unarmored AC.

Helmet is the smallest of a few pieces that's dearth justifies unarmored AC all by themselves.

>>52634581
>It'd still be nice to have a bit more options,
Homebrew is trivial. If you want a one-off snowflake, just ask.

>>52640436
>Skills & Powers
worst book of the worst product line

>>52645010
It speaks volumes that only Dragon had material for S&P point-buy, S&P psionics were pushed but as a strictly optional system, and S&P sub-abilities never got mentioned anywhere outside of the book.

>>52643790
It has cleaves + a slightly different way of resolving attack rolls that essentially just cuts out the attack matrix/THAC0 middleman but is more or less functionally identical.

>>52645080
S&P psionics, especially as of the Revised DS setting (only thing I like about it), is probably better than the original.

>>52645514
>S&P psionics,
...is TSR's single worst attempt at psionics.
>especially as of the Revised DS setting
The Will and the Way predates Skills and Powers.

>>52645555

>...is TSR's single worst attempt at psionics.

Nah, its much better than the psionics handbook stuff, just because of it putting as much emphasis on level as ability scores.

>The Will and the Way predates Skills and Powers.

Obviously referring to the Revised DS setting, not Will & the Way.

What's the (TSR) D&D edition with the most swords & sorcery feel?
And OSR or OSR-like game?
And fantasy rpg game?

And, in a few words, why?

>>52646050
TSR I would have no clue.

OSR game I'd have a guess at ASSH, you only have to look at its name haha. That or Low Fantasy Gaming, which is OSR and has a strong S&S feel (they replaced fighter for barbarian if I remember correctly).

And for RPGs in general its very hard to beat Barbarians of Lemuria. Very fast, pulpy and heroic. Characters can have broad skill sets and be a capable enough warrior and you gain XP by how awesomely you describe pissing away the spoils of the latest adventure.

>>52636954
you can just rule it to only work for full sized shields if you want

>>52626951
>saruman of many colors
FUCK YEAH

>>52636954
>>52646238
Maybe bucklers only stop half the damage since they're so puny.

>>52636360
castle of the mad archmage is better.

Can you do 5e-style saves in B/X?
d20 + ability mod (+ level if save relevant to your class) vs DC.
Spells have DC = 9 + caster level.

I like the idea of adjudicating a save DC on the fly rather than looking it up, and having spells become stronger with the caster, and in general depend on its source.

I don't have a lot of experience with BX yet, but I'm pretty sure this would break the game. Opinions?

>>52646905
As I see it, saving throws are supposed to be a sort of a semi-miraculous fallback that you can never rely on. 3rd edition and onward, doing exactly what you described, basically turned the whole thing into another standard defense, like what AC is. It may be easier to manage and make more sense that way, but in my opinion it's also a whole lot less exciting.

>>52646928
I rarely do saves, so I'd figure I'd simplify them. Stopping the game to look up a value in a table sucks and breaks the flow in a critical moment.
I'd rather say 'roll d20+level on 15+' than spend that three seconds coming up with a cool description for the outcome of the save.

And it works, so far -- I'm worried about how to handle magic, mostly. It's one of those 'would a young conan against a powerful sorceror...' kind of design situation. Without fucking the overall math, that is.

>>52636360
WGR1 Ruins of Castle Greyhawk.

WG7 Castle Greyhawk if you think your players need some comedy in their life. Bonus points if they're grog enough to get all the references.

Outside Caverns of Thracia, Tegel Manor, and Dark Tower, what's the best Judges Guild adventure?

>>52646905
>>52646983
If you want to simplify saving throws whilst keeping it b/x compatible, I would suggest going with the Swords & Wizardry method.

There is a single saving throw value of 16-[Level]. Roll equal to or over to succeed.
Some classes have a +2 bonus vs certain types of save. Done. No need to be some kind of sick pervert that uses arbitrary DC numbers in an OSR game.

>>52647328
>single saving throw
Not the guy you're responding to, but the only problem I have with the single saving throw is that I have no idea how the numbers were thought up and how they were balanced. What version of D&D is it based on? How can I change it if I happen to use another system?

>>52647434
You don't need to worry about balance so much. That's what wrecked 3e and everything that came later.

>>52630070
>What other needlessly complex experience point houserules are there that I could appropriate?
My untested homebrew for OSR equivalent:
damage taken by entire party * 20xp, divided up equally to party members
damage dealt by an individual player * 10xp, all to that player
all other as usual
XP is tallied at campfire or day's rest

I'm looking forward to designing character sheet supplements and PARTY sheet supplements with more than one grid simply for checking off this sort of thing. There's a diety favor mechanic I'm keen on testing like this as well.

I think It'll be better if it's on some sort of other paper, not the char sheet itself, because it'll probably wear out pretty quick

>>52646123
Crypts and Things is pretty good too. The new edition has a nice solution for saving throws that I dig quite a bit.

>>52647450
Not him, but understanding the underlying design decisions of a game system is pretty important to successfully running it. Balance isn't what matters here. It's the rationale behind decisions.

>>52647450
Maybe, but I'd still like to be able to justify the number to myself and to my players. I want to be able to say "I used this equation with the B/X saving throw numbers to get this new number".

>>52647434
>>52647571
They probably reverse engineered the existing save tables and averaged it out to determine that 16 was a good base value. A ~20% chance of success at level 1, capping at around a 90% chance to succeed at max level.

The concept of the saving throw came from old sword & sorcery fiction where heroes like Conan the Barbarian would routinely shrug off or avoid stuff that would kill normal men. They would literally be "saved" from death due to their badassness.

>>52647687
If that's the case, then there's a 20% higher risk of a level 1 fighter dying from poison or a death ray. That's a pretty significant change.

>>52647817
Each class also gets a bonus against a type of saving throw, so fighters would get boosted.

Anyone here tried using any kind of passive perception? What rules? How did it go?

>>52647919
That doesn't seem to be the case. Only clerics get a bonus against poison.

>>52648053

I would only ever use passive/rolled perception if the party was suffering from an effect.

Maybe a supernatural darkness, or a poison that is slowly blinding everyone, or an evil creature that makes people miss obvious shit.

Otherwise I wouldn't do it. It would distract too strongly from the core player driven interaction gameplay experience of OSR.

>>52648248
Thanks, makes sense. I was thinking in using it as a 'threshold' - the same way you tell masonry stuff to the dwarf, you tell lore stuff to the smarty and ambush stuff to the wise character. Etc.

Also, is it a good idea to use ability checks instead of the usual x-in-6 rolls (while rolling 3d6 in order)?
My players dislike how counter-intuitive is to use a d6-roll-low for seemingly arbitrary tasks.

>>52649611
>is it a good idea to use ability checks
Generally, no.

>My players dislike [...] d6-roll-low
Explain that it's easy on you, the referee, to handle probability when your numbers are directly probability.
If that doesn't do nit for them, spice it up a little. Be more exotic. Use d12-roll-low.
>for seemingly arbitrary tasks.
Really though, the root of the issue is probably how often they're rolling. Try to arbitrate more without dicing.
If people are doing the right thing in the right spot, you can usually assume they succeed.

>>52648053
The way I run things is to ask for the players to describe the things they are doing to search.
A comprehensive "standard searching procedure" is guaranteed to find traps and secret doors, but slows the party down to a crawl (consuming more torches/oil, more wandering monster checks).
Anyone with a greater than normal Search skill can let me know, and I'll roll a hidden check for them each turn to see if they saw anything the standard procedure didn't pick up. It's a kind of insurance against unforseen circumstances.

I like it. It encourages the group to actually engage with the game and put thought into dungeon crawling and resource management. The reward is that they get to feel clever every time I tell them they saw a pit trap. Those with the skill also get a little feelgood moment when I say "your keen elf eyes spot something the party missed".

>>52649721
This sounds like a pretty good way to do things. So long as the party isn't in a horrible rush to open that door, they'll eventually find the trap - the thief with his trapfinding skill will just find it faster.

How's that?

>>52649757
the way it plays out (esp. with novice players) is they'll start with simple stuff like "looking around" and "poking ahead with a 10ft pole". Then they'll set off a trap that couldn't be detected by those methods.
They'll bitch and moan for a bit, then spend some time figuring out how to detect it early and add it to their procedure.
This keeps happening until they start getting paranoid and coming up with procedures for traps they make up in their own minds.
And they waste more time and more light and more rations and fight more random encounters until they get frustrated that they aren't making much progress for their efforts (90% of the time, they find nothing because there is nothing to find).

Then they start ditching procedures to speed up.

They get sloppy.
They get impatient.
They start kicking open doors.
And making noise.

And then fall into a pit trap like a bunch of amateurs.

And I smile
And say
"How are you searching?"

>>52649671
>d12-roll-low
That's even less intuitive.
>assume they succeed
I do, but I ask for three rolls: open stuck doors, find traps/secrets, and hear noise.

>>52649721
I kind of like this, but I feel like the "searching procedure" should be the 10min, 10x10' area. And I do encounter checks every turn (on a d12).

Right now I'm doing:
>I search in that shelve
>You find that and that.
but:
>I'll search for traps
>That'll be 10 min and a search roll, you need a 1-2 on a d6

It's going fine so far, but once you start mixing d% thief skills it all becomes a blur of rolls and chances. I'd rather have everything on a d20, desu. I know, I know.

>>52649864
I don't mind the crawl, but I want a light and fast game. I want a S&S game. I want Dungeons and Dragons, not Torches and Corridors.

>>52649958
>I don't mind the crawl, but I want a light and fast game. I want a S&S game. I want Dungeons and Dragons, not Torches and Corridors.

Everyone does. But that is part of the fun of this method (for me at least). An actual tangible, nerve-wracking decision for the players to make. It promotes discussion and argument and inter-party conflict and engagement with the game. It's a psychological meta-game rule. This kind of stuff is what tabletop roleplaying games shine at, but nobody thinks to exploit.

How many times have you seen a gaming group shout and hoot and laugh and scream and argue and plan and conspire together over how to proceed? A lot.

These are the moments that everyone is having the most fun and having their mind stimulated and enjoying each others company.

>>52649958
>find traps/secrets
Passively dice this (if you know they're going about with 10' poles, etc.) behind you screen for "common" traps (pitfalls, poison needles, etc.)
If you dice for the traps ahead if time (or simultaneously with Wandering Monster rolls, etc.) then ideally they won't even notice you've diced for traps.

When they find more exotic traps, or fail the rolls, give a cue so they can roleplay finding an bypassing them.

>>52650114
Nah, that would feel unfair. If they are about to eat it, I ask for a roll to see if they see it coming.

> "common" traps (pitfalls, poison needles, etc.)
"common" traps are big traps, that anybody can detect (a dwarf better)
Small traps like poison needles or door traps are undetectable unless by a thief.
At least that's what black box says.

>fail the rolls, give a cue
That's BS. If they fail, they don't know it's there and if they keep going, they EAT it. Full stop.
Doing that you're making the whole trap subgame meaningless. Clues are given if they FIND the trap, either via roll or poking around.

>>52646928
Right, if you have to save, it's because you fucked up.

1st level chars can save themselves maybe 35% of the time, 10th level around 65%, but there's always a good chance you're poisoned/paralyzed/petrified/polymorphed/just taken out the action indefinitely until a cleric shows up.

>>52617915
Read Tower of the Stargazer, the author's notes give you a better idea of the decisions he made and how to run it.

For example, why WOULDN'T reading an evil inscription aloud cause something bad to happen? It's either going to do nothing (as plenty of the writings in DFD do), or it's going to be bad (and you only have yourself to blame).

The only bullshit thing in DFD is the tooth offering puzzle, which is one of those "solve this or you can't continue the module" obstacles. There is a way around it but it's very unlikely the group would find it.

>>52650296
>Clues are given if they FIND the trap, either via roll or poking around.
Cue, not clue. A bit of narration that they can follow up on to obtain a clue.
But that doesn't immediately mean "trap," because you put bits of narration everywhere.

>they EAT it. Full stop.
If the party trips a pitfall in a hallway (or whatever), please have the decency to make a hireling eat it.
Or at least consider the hireling when randomly checking who gets caught.

>>52651088
>fudging
No, the first one in the formation eats it (usually the thief, who carries 24/7 a 10' pole -- and if that fails, has better chances to find traps)
I give them d6 HD and 20% chance for most skills at 1st level, if that matters.

>>52649721
I like this but I don't get it 100%
>A comprehensive "standard searching procedure" is guaranteed to find
So, spending (say) 10 min searching the room = find that secret door, right?
>hidden check for them each turn to see if they saw anything the standard procedure didn't pick up
As I understand it, your standard search is supposed to discover everything.
Or do you mean that you roll a bunch of d6s each turn, like some sort of passive perception?
That would be nice but a bit slow.

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>>52646602

SHIELDS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

So how does ACKS handle old school megadungeon-into-hexcrawl gameplay?

What I've read so far seems to focus pretty heavy on the politics; I know carving out territory and building a keep on the borderlands is a big part of osr but what about the lower level get in the dungeon and get the treasure and get out element that comes first? How does ACKS fare there?

>>52651478
>So, spending (say) 10 min searching the room = find that secret door, right?
If the procedure the PCs' previously described and that the referee added to his notes takes about 10 minutes, then yes.
>your standard search is supposed to discover everything.
Your standard procedure finds everything it's actions could reasonably be expected to find.
You roll for everything the procedure would have means of picking up.

The procedure is essentially a shorthand you've given the referee ahead of time.
Instead of saying, "we do this and this and that" you just say "we search."

>>52651868
It's basically B/X.

Give The Sinister Stone of Sakkara a read if you want to see how low-level dungeon crawling (mixed with the potential of buying and running a keep) works in practice:

gofile<dot>io/?c=qG4JmG

Honestly, the bookkeeping seems way too fiddly for my liking. An Echo, Resounding by Sine Nomine is more abstract.

>>52652795
>Lairs and Encounters
You're the man, anon.

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What's the best monster XP chart around? I tend to find myself preferring this...

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even though I tend to wind up using this, as I run 2e more.

>>52653315
>>52653332
I pretty much agree. I like the 1e one more because it's more complex and I like complex exp stuff, but I don't want to use it much since 2e has different experience charts so it might mess up the balance (even more).

>>52653346
I've ran a number of 2e games that went to level 20+ and I always find it odd how monsters are worth nearly no XP until they become endless fountains of XP; the vampire is about 3500 xp in 1e and about 7000 XP in 2e. Not that it isn't worth it, but wights for example are underrated severely by the same comparison.