/HHG/ -horus heresy general

Thanks for the advice in the last thread anon
putting up the updated list just to see if there's anything else I can do with it

HQ
Krole
150 pts

Centura
Master Crafted Paragon Blade
105 pts

Centura
Master Crafted Paragon Blade
105 pts

Elite
Raptor Guard x10
Aquisitor
295 pts

Troops
Vigilator Cadre x10
Aquisitor
270 pts

Vigilator Cadre x10
Aquisitor
270 pts

Prosecutor Cadre x10
Aquisitor
240 pts

Prosecutor Cadre x10
Aquisitor, Extra Armour
240 pts

Prosecutor Cadre x10
Aquisitor
240 pts

Heavy Support
Caladius Tank
195 pts

Caladius Tank
195 pts

Caladius Tank
195 pts

Total: 2500 pts

Again, Centuras go with the Vigilators and Krole with her Raptors

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What's the best tool to file down the helmet ridge to turn 2 lenses into 1.

I'm not happy with how scrappy my first attempt is.

>>52603703
honestly thats not too bad of a job
personally I'd grab the finest nail file you can get clip the bridge and file in the gap with care

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How strong do you think the augmented humans that were part of the Dark Angels Legion were ? Those like Luther, strong and experienced knights that were too old to survive the process of becoming an Astartes. Obviously not Marine tier, but perhaps faster reflexes and better constitution ?

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>Planet Morningstar
>Worship Shaitan

There's that good old McNeillain subtly.

>>52603798
Probably just a step down from normal marines so they can still keep up

Is kraken missile Ligthning good in a Mechanicum force ? (I plan on buying one to put down armoured key target)

>>52604035

At least he is busy shitting up League of Legends lore.

I dunno how you make that worse but he is off to a great start.

>>52604035
>Get paid to write a book about Magnus and the Thousand Sons
>Spend half of it giving Perturabo and the Iron Warriors a loving blowjob

The man has it cracked all right.

>>52604137

Is there anyone who DOESN'T dicksuck the Iron Warriors? The fanboys are quite vocal and obnoxious. Almost as bad as Death Guard.

>>52604137
>Spend half of it giving Perturabo and the Iron Warriors a loving blowjob
How so?

>>52604181
To be fair they do only have 1 HH book about them.

>>52604035
e-e-explain?

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>tfw umbra pattern bolters don't fit properly with plastic mkIII

>>52604181
> almost as bad as Death Guard
Are... are you knew here? You must be. How else could you think ANY other legion fanbois are worse than the IWfags who have shit up this thread for the past 9 months.

>>52604233
Shaitan = satan. I think it's the Arabic pronunciation, though in Islam it can refer to devils in general rather than "the" devil.

Also, Satan's Vulgate name, Lucifer, comes from "morning star", the old name for Venus (the planet as seen in the sky, not the goddess).

So basically McNeill looked up "Satan" in a thesaurus and used what he found.

>>52604362

I am actually, yes. You could say I am biased as I don't particularly like any of the traitor legions besides the Luna Wolves.

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>>52603703
I've been wondering too anon, been wanting to try it to the custodes helmets. I would assume using a diamond/needle file would probably work, I'll test it later although I bet a vice would be helpful for keeping it still

>>52604526
>Luna Wolves
>Traitors

Oh boy, he really doesn't know anything

>>52604137
I want John French and Graham to be forced to work together on the Iron Cage book.

>>52604546

Sssh anon. The Luna Wolves all died on Istvaan.

>>52604362
Yea and now it's the DGfags who shit up the threads

>>52604546
>he thinks Horus' legion weren't traitors during the HORUS heresy
Newfags gonna new I guess.

>>52604565
>wahh wahh, no one ever posts models they just meme
>anon actually post their DG
>wahh wahh, DG anons shit up the thread
Seriously?

>>52604598
nice try DGfag

go back to B&C

>>52604416
Shaitan is Hebrew, to clarify. But the Satan is ha-Shaitan. He's Iblis in Qu'ran.

>>52604546

Sons of Horus is their bitch name, I refuse to use it. But the others, petulant, jealous, petty and egotistical, even when tragic like Magnus. I just can't get behind them.

I do like sone of their captaons and support staff, but, if I can't back your Primarch then I can't rightfully play their legion, is my feelings on it.

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>>52603798
I'd base Luther on Kor Phaeron's profile, given he's pretty similar in being an upgraded human but not a full astartes. Given Luther's probably a more skilled fighter than Kor Phaeron, but maybe doesn't have such a good life support system built into his armour, I'd probably go with:
>WS5 BS4 S4 T3 W3 I3 A3 Ld10

Posted yesterday that I will be playing for 30kchannel on Youtube in a couple of weeks and I absolutely need feedback on my army list after watching the last couple of games where people get tabled.

Ironwing : 3500 points

>HQ
Preator + Command Squad in tartaros terminator armor. Preator hs a paragon blade and iron halo, the CS has a couple of power fist and a chain fist. They'll be riding in a Land Raider Phobos

Damocles Command Rhino

>Elites
Two identical Mortis Dreadnoughts with twin-linked lascannons and two hunter-killer missiles each.

>Troops
Four identical Tactical Squads with melta bombs on the dergeants and riding in Rhino's with havoc launchers.

>Heavy Support
Two Predator Tanks both with executioner plasma destroyers, side mounted heavy bolters and machine spirits.

Three Vindicator Siege Tanks with laser destroyer arrays and have machine spirit.

Two Leviathan Dreadnoughts with volkite nips, phosphex dischargers and storm cannons.

>LoW
Typhon

There's 55 points left over and I'm considering armoured ceramite on my Land Raider and Leviathans, I usually play Ironwing very aggressively, thankfully my LoW was given permission to count as a tank towards the 50% of the list being of the tank Type.

The plan is for the Mortis Boxnoughts to hang back in case of flyers for intercept, if there are none lascannons for big targets and hunter-killers to pop Rhinos. Troops get dropped off as fast in the mid field as I can get them so I can start using the Rhino's light artillery on troops. Land Raider is to contest any deathstar that runs down my throat but I tend to avoid them all together and try to kill them from afar. Vindicators are good at killing AV 14 transports followed up by storm cannons and plasma preds mopping up whatever crawls out.

Did I cover all my bases well enough? I aimed for a lot of redundancy and want to provide a good game for everyone who watches 30kchannel battle reports.

>>52604693
>if I can't back your Primarch then I can't rightfully play their legion
Are you roleplaying them or something?

>>52603578
Drop one squad and run 3-4 Pallas Grav Tanks to keep up the Custode armor theme while also giving yourself tank hunting ability.

Also give the Caladius tanks the TL-Arachnus Blaze Cannons.

>>52604753
Heh, last thread I advised him to drop the pallas grav tanks he had in the list for more caladiuses. Poor anon can't win.

>>52604721
Kor Phaeron was literally a grandpa when he the Emperor came to Colchis, while Luther was in his 50-60's at most (conjecture assuming he found the Lion at about 25-30 and we know Russ was found in 826.M30, while Perturabo in 840, and the Lion was found before Perturabo) but still physically fit due to being a knight of the Order.

>>52604771
See I think he should keep the tanks for that armored goodness, but dropping one Aquisitor and squad for more fast AF anti-tank will help.

You're on the right track.

I really wish Custode HQ's could take Jetbikes, but I truly understand how broken that would be. Oh well.

Sometimes you just wanna go fast.

HQ: Legio Custodes Tribune w/ Praesidium Shield, Cyber-Familiar, Digital Lasers, and Paragon Spear 270pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Guardian Squad of 4 210pt

Transport: Coronus Grav Carrier w/ Extra Armor 140pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Guardian Squad of 4 210pt

Transport: Coronus Grav Carrier w/ Extra Armor 140pt

Fast Attack: Legio Custodes Agamatus Jetbike Squad of 6 w/ 2 Corvae Las-Pulsars 500pt

Fast Attack: Legio Custodes Agamatus Jetbike Squad of 6 w/ 2 Corvae Las-Pulsars 500pt

Fast Attack: Legio Custodes Agamatus Jetbike Squad of 6 w/ 2 Corvae Las-Pulsars 500pt

Total = 2500 points

>>52604796
My feeling was the acquisitors provide enough mid-strength shooting to the list already (2 krak missiles and 4 TL autocannon shots per acquisitor will deal with light to medium armour very nicely) so the pallas tanks wouldn't add much. But hey, more opinions for anon is all good.

>>52604736

No, I simply do not want a $100 model of some fuckhead I don't actually like. Do you play things you dislike, anon?

>>52604568
>Doesn't acknowledge that those who stayed loyal in the XVI despite the odds took up the mantle of Luna Wolves once more instead of being the sons of shits
>Can't admit that his favorite loyalist didn't have any traitors ever
>Can't admit that not a single Luna Wolf ever turned traitor
>>52604693
>Can't back their primarch
So you don't want best space dad?

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DG unite

>>52604857
>>not a single [loyalist son of horus] ever turned traitor
Well gee whizz anon, not a single Loyalist of any legion turned traitor.
Other than Lucius.

>>52604910
Doesn't Lucius sort of betray everyone though?

>>52604107
>bump

>>52604910
Lucius was never loyal, only to Fulgrim and himself.

>>52604137
>>52604035
Anyone got the audiobook for this?

>>52604974
In a vacuum? The engines wouldn't work properly.

>>52604734
Congrats on getting on that channel, big fan. How well do mortis dreads do against flyers? I haven't seen them in 30k yet.

>>52604753
>>52604771
>>52604796
>>52604844
You guys are awesome!
It's actually a tough call now, but I think I'm gonna stick with three caladius, the Aquisitors have really good dakka potential and the caladius is probably the single most versatile tank in the game bar none and will reliably remove anything this sisters struggle with

but thank you as well pallas anon!

>>52604734
Would be easier to critique your army if you listed the points of your units. Press look a bit pricey for what a sicarian can do.

>>52604857

Nice try, but best space dad doesn't have a model yet.

>>52604181
What about Iron Warriors and Death Guard fanboys then?

>>52605045
Works for me, just make sure you switch to the Arachnus Blaze Cannons on the Caladius. It will make them a whole lot better at anti armor.

>>52605054
You are, of course, referring to the Emperor.

>>52605097
But anon, Horus already has a model

>>52605097

Yes, of course.

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>>52605140
But that's before he gets his chaos on, when he still looked handsome. He'll need another model for his new "angry goblin" look.

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>>52605140
You mean Abaddon, right? :^)

>>52605140

>yfw it was actually vegetabilized Horus they rescued and took back to the Golden Throne after the Emperor used biomancy to alter his appearance

>yfw the Emperor died that day so he could ascend to godhood and leave his maimed favorite son behind on earth to be martyred on His behalf

>>52605160
no matter what they do to him, abaddon will always look retarded

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DG reporting in.

I'm bored so I'm trying some fancier shit on one of my Termies. I painted his flamer tank with a green metallic paint, like its a chemical sprayer rather than a flamer, then I used blue wash on the nozzle to make it seem like a chemical stain rather than soot. I added some small flecks of that GW mud stuff on his face ( I'm fixing his fucked up eyes later). Then I did a kind of chemical poisoned no mans land base. nurgle rot basecoat, that GW mud stuff but rubbed away in spots, then gloss varnish.

>>52605175

>yfw this is still all Magnus' fault

Dumb red bastard

>>52605181
>putting a chainfist on your heavy weapon termie
QuestionableMotive.jpg

>>52605181
I still think the chest backpack looks silly. Like, it's not exactly an obscure part, everybody that plays 30k will recognise it as a backpack.

>>52604107
It works, but you have access to Vultarax, which have less instant kill dakka unless you bring many, but are waaaaay more resilient and the only issue about them not killing a Spartan turn one is that they kill it in turn two.
They can't explode, they have a 3+ against Autocannons, they can shoot all around them and are useful against both vehicles and hordes.
Also, they can start on the tabletop as gliding FMCs.
Just saying.

Since their has been some talk of the 16th in this thread, I was wondering if any of you are aware/know a couple of things in regards to what would have been assigned to their legion

What militia/solar auxiliary groups did they have?
What were the mechanicum forces/Titan legion(s) were assigned?
Unique allies?

Should we do this this for every legion?

>>52604734
M8, I think your list is illegal because you have less tank than non-tank units. Praetor, Command Squad, 2 Mortis Dreads and a Leviathan Talon give 5 as opposed to 4 units with Tank type.

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>>52604181
>IWs can only shit up the thread
What has shat up the thread was plastic autism. How are the IWs the source of it?
>>52604362
>>52604565
>Like three DG anons post their minis
>Thread status: Shit
Literally HOW.
Maybe I'm not understanding what shitting a thread actually is. What would a quality thread contain? Of course I have my own opinion, but I want to hear an unbiased one.
>>52604548
>John French
>On anything
Delet.
>>52604598
I guess they would like to return to AL geometric memery class?
>>52605074
>What about Iron Warriors and Death Guard fanboys then?
Master race. Need a few WEs so we can truly be the meatgrinder bois.
>>52604865
Unite in sadness :(

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Daily Reminder:

Post any completed writefaggotry you guys have, it'd be cool to get an archive of /hhg/'s own literature.

https://pastebin.com/nH4JetCY

>>52605437
Command squad has a dedicated transport which cancels the squad out. Non tanks are the predator, 2 boxnaughts, and leviathan talon against the command rhino, pred/vindicator squads and typhoon. The requirements are met.

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Is it bad I really love Titans with shit tons of D weaponry? Like in the Heresy we have the pinnacle of some tech just blasting the shit out of each other. I just want to see Turbo Lasers fucking everywhere.

I'm planing on buying a pair of Warhounds with three twin Turbo Lasers and a Plasma Blastgun or a Reaver with two Laser Blasters and a twin Turbo Laser because I think that equipment is just so fucking cool.

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Since Custodes bikes look like ass, I'm looking into possible replacements.
Sammael's bike is an obvious choice, but I'm kinda worried it'll be too small. Normal marines already look fairly chunky on it.
Opinions?

>>52605591

>being so shit at your job you have to turn every conflict into a dragged out killing box

They have the Imperial Army for that. Why can't you boys be less fuck ups, like Horus, Sanguinius or Roboute?

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Are the small aquilas in the FW etched brass set small enough to mount across a Cadian chest?

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Etched-Brass-Small-Imperial-Eagles

>>52605759
>Horus, Sanguinius or Roboute?

One of these is not like the others.
Why do people pretend Sangunius was among the greats? He specalised in smashing shit with angry space marines, more akin to an Angron than a Guilliman or a Horus.

I'm trying to figure out a name for my Blackshield warband that would be as cool as Dark Brotherhood or Third Covenant and thematically similar somehow. You know how difficult stuff like this is. I've come up with a few but nothing that immediately jumps to me as particularly good:

The Unbroken
Circle of (insert random name here)
The Sundered Path
Oathbound


Any ideas? I'm thinking of using Orphans of War or Outlanders for them.

>>52606001
How about just going with "The Circle" ?

DG, NL or WB lads

>>52606074
>DG
We have enough of them.

>WB
Worst legion.

Ave Dominus Nox, brother.

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>>52606074

You know the choice, brother.

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>>52606001
> The Nine

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>>52606072
not bad actually

Anyone know can I get a torrent/video of Path of Heaven audiobook?

>>52606001
The Haunted Indomitable Coven Crew

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>>52606074
Do it for Lorgar, brother

>>52606001
The Gay Niggers From Planet Space

>>52605744
Honestly if Custode HQ's can ever take Jetbikes in using Sammael's as the base bike for it.

It's different enough that it looks amazing. Also will use finecast because the original metal one is a fucking brick.

>>52606118
audiobookbay

Speaking of pic related >52606146,
how would you convert some marines to make a unit of those guys? (Kor Phaeron's personal guard if I am not mistaken)

>>52606171
Woops, I meant >>52606146

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>>52605759
>>being so shit at your job you have to turn every conflict into a dragged out killing box
Remember that time where the Space Wolves, the Empra's Ekssecushioners, along with the WS couldn't kill some orks, so they had to call the IW.
Or the time Horus asked Corax to do the same job the IWs were routinarily doing and he complied and almost all the terrans died?
Or the time when nobody in the UM knew how to fortify, despite sieges being one of the romans' strenght, so they had to hire an IW?
Or the time the AL thought they could backstab Vhalen so he bisected their ship by ramming it, and exploded the thing so thoroughly Horus was forced to garrison his own marines and reprimanded Alpharius?
The IWs are sent to do the jobs the others can't do.

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>>52606074
DG

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>>52606001
The Unbroken Circle of the Sundered Oath

What were the colors of loyalty/service directly to the Emperorh black, gold, or bare ceramite/steel?

>>52606001
The Sundered Circle

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>>52606211
Black means direct service to the throne. That's why the Emperor's Champion and Chaplains wear black.
It's different to the golden of the Emperor's Talons, or the Bare ceramiteTM for Malcador's agents.

>>52606255
So Silver was for Malcador's servants? What is the reason for the gold/black split?

>>52606255
>Bare ceramiteTM for Malcador's agents
wait, is that why grey knights have bare armor? fuck I feel dumb for not knowing that

>>52606288
Grey Knights have silver armour to show their purity.

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>>52606273
It means their duty is to the Throne first, and to their legions second. Picture Nemiel reminding the Lion he's still a subject of the Emperor.
>>52606288
It's bare ceramite, anon :^)
Malcador's boys are black ops...but since soooooo many legions already wear black, they wear unpainted armour instead.

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>>52606186
>more wash on white primer models

>>52606331
Then why don't Custodes wear black?

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>>52606365
Some do.

>>52606365
They adorn themselves with black post-Heresy.

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>>52606365
Because they don't have dual allegiances. It's not Throne first, Legion second.
It's Emperor First, Emperor Last, Emperor Always.
Besides, neither Custodes nor SoS are Astartes. You could say the black is to obscure legion colours.

>>52606386
Oh. Would it be appropriate for Black Shields to wear Gold?

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What would prismatic litmus marines mean? To whom would they serve?

>>52606452
Tzeentch

>>52604565
Nufag
Literally no other legion has produced the vast quantity of shit memes, or shit painted models, as the IWfags. They have permanently cemented their place as the worst fanbois on this thread. I didn't think it was possible to be as bad as Wolf fags, but by God, the IWfags did it.

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>>52606420
Blackshields don't care, they wear what they want. Most aren't imperials anymore

>>52606157
You have my vote anon

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>>52606490
>Only one nonAWG anon has posted painted SWs
>IWs are the worst
We haven't even had IWposting this year

>>52605973
Because he was also an excellent leader. Horus thought that Sang should have been the Warmaster, and Rowbooty made Sang the emperor of Imperium Secundus.

>>52606556
> liar
Please name fag so I can filter you

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>>52606703
>I disagree with your opinion, so I'd rather not see you in my safe space
Can't we get angry like brothers?

There are literally only 3 DGfags that post minis: Intractableanon, Scytheanon and Phosphexanon.

>>52606808
Apparently they shit up threads with their productivity or something.
Reminder that /HHG/ is always open to every legion, if you feel like getting accused of shitposters for sharing your minis, that is.

>>52606865
Still got a bunch of pics of painted AL I haven't shared yet. Every time I posted one not many people seemed to care, not being insulted over how they're painted was a good sign, and the rest started moaning about ALfags clogging up the bread.

HHG still gets way more pics of people that actually do shit than it deserves :^)

>>52606808
>Intractableanon, Scytheanon and Phosphexanon

Who they?

>>52606944
I'd like to see them anon

>>52606954
shitposters

>>52606737
> I live in some alternate reality I continue to force on those around me, and take offense that others would rather just be able to ignore my autism
Seek help

>>52606001
I think Gay Niggers from Planet Space is a great idea anon

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>>52607024
The only shitposting I can remember in
>current year
would be models autism. Plastic vs resin, MkWars, triggery kitbashing and so on.
I'd ask you what terrible wrong was made to you that you have this kind of attitude on life...but then I remember I'm on /HHG/.

>>52605687

I don't think I've ever seen a reaver with a non-apocalpyse missile launcher top gun that actually looks good.

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Just a friendly reminder of who the best primarch is.

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>>52607196
>lost to Curze

>>52604734
I'd get some ceramite on those leviathans, already dropping a lot on them. Might as well make them a bit more hardy.

Only thing I can see you struggling against is a primarch or terminator spam. Not a lot of forcing invul saves with your list. Other than that it's solid.

>>52607221
I wouldn't call getting sucker swiped by an ally losing but NLs have to grasp at straws anyways.

>>52607196
>throw away the lives of thousands upon thousands of loyal Astartes because he was having a hissy fit
Worse than Perturabo, at least he only slaughtered 1/10 of his legion.

>>52607008
Because they post minis?

>>52606331
wearing unpainted and not black has nothing to do with aesthetic, it's about showing they dont belong to any legion

>>52607249
>thousands upon thousands
>Pert only managed to gather 400 gene seeds from the Fist

No organized deployment, no planning at all, literally dropped his marines into hell, still managed to crack the Eternal Fortress. Pert got beat the fuck down.

M'kay

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>>52607249
>>throw away the lives of thousands upon thousands of loyal Astartes because he was having a hissy fit
I thought you were describing Fulgrim.

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>>52606984
Alright then, one more.

Command squad

>>52607243
curze is a beast in the HH books. He takes on Guilliman and Lion at once and would have killed them with a trap had they not been teleported out

>>52607249
Pert killed a lot more than 1/10th of his legion unnecessarily.

>>52607285
Except he could have fired cyclonic torpedoes into the planet and destroyed all the Iron Warriors without expending a single life but instead he had a temper tantrum.

>>52607298
Doesn't mean he didnt sucker punching his brother.

>>52607302
The point wouldn't have been made then.

>>52607297
You need a smaller brush for those freehands.

>>52607329
>gets his legion butchered to prove an autistic point
I rest my case.

>>52607285
>Lots of IFs weren't recovered.
>"Lots of IF" means mere 400.
>A legion of 100000 only has 5 second founding successors.
Isn't this lore from the time the Primarchs led chapters instead of Legions?

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>>52607297
I like the AL's unbroken chain iconography

>>52607168
thats because appearance wise, the best Reaver weaponry is missile launcher on back and laser blaster/gatling blaster

Just like best Warlord weaponry looks wise is arm volcano cannons, and two mounts of x2 Turbo Laser Destructors on back

and just like how best Emperor Titan is Plasma Annihilator and Hellstorm Cannon

and just like how best Warhound Titan is a Plasma blastgun and turbolaser destructor

>>52607298
And yet in another novel placed not much later he gets absolutely bodied by Lion in a 1v1.

Not that it wasn't already clear enough that how well anybody does is entirely dependant on the writers bias ...

>>52607374
alpha legion having any markings at all goes against their doctrine

surprised they're not just ceramite grey like knights-errant but with cloaking devices

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Fuck your invasion russ!

Playing BoP, actually pretty fun but Greigor seems too hanky. Anyone else played?

>>52607302
Why didn't Horus just torpedo Terra and hit the auto win button?

>>52607360
Pert and Dorn never got to throw down on the throne world. It was time to prove who's better, the optismt or the pestimist.

>>52607361
I really doubt that the Fist were anywhere near 100k. They never really had those kinds of numbers to begin with and they fought through one of the most apocalyptic battles ever. May e reduce that by half twice and then we'd be in the ball park.

>>52607387
The inconsistences are mostly on Curze's mental state. In Unremembered Empire he's focused and his foresight powers are working great, he can literally see anything seconds before it happens at the very least.

By Angel of Caliban he's wracked by doubt from his visions of his own death and that of Sanguinius who he seems to have some odd feelings for (everyone loves Sangy I guess)

>>52607400
No, the AL do very much use markings. Because the fact that they might mean something, or nothing, or might be true, or actually not, is just perfect to add even more confusion to the enemy

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>>52607400
>surprised they're not just ceramite grey like knights-errant but with cloaking devices
>Saboteurs are issued cameleoline
>Exodus has cameleoline
>Even Alpharius has cameleoline
>Only the RG, the Scouts & Assault marines legion, can buy cameleoline.
I'm with you on that one, but if anything, the AL is about confusing and obscure markings rather than no markings.

>>52607428
>Why didn't Horus just torpedo Terra and hit the auto win button?

1.) Planetary Shielding. The old collected visions lore has him start the battle by bombarding Terra with the largest orbital strike EVER but it does minimal damage because Dorn has so much defenses set up

2.) He needs Terra at least partially intact to rule from it

3.) You don't want to blow up the Astronomican, everyone is fucked then

4.) He wanted to literally walk into the palace and kill the emperor with his own hands for symbolic reasons

>>52607428
> Y NO HORUS JUST BOMB PLANET LOL !!1!
Because 'mah destiny' plot want. Next question

>>52607428
>Why didn't Horus just torpedo Terra and hit the auto win button?
Who knows? Presumably because he wanted the Throne World for himself.

>hurr durr imma obliterate my legion because I'm insecure
Like I said, Dorn is High-Tier until the Scouring when he becomes Average-Tier.

>>52607448
it'd be more confusing to be getting attacked by marines who are dressed as world eaters but dont come REEEEEing at you like animals

at least the AL dresses up as Raven Guard in Deliverance Lost

>>52607453
Point 4 was reason enough to not bomb the Eternal Fortress.

>>52607475
This tbqh. Painting Alpha Legion as Alpha Legion is kind of missing the point.

>>52607483
yes, all the primarchs besides alpharius and curze were honorfags who would get their own guys killed for symbolism and dignity. Horus was probably the worst with this.

not that space marines mind dying for purely honor. especially their primarchs honor.

So I want to get into Heresy with Mechanicum, and I like converting stuff for my 40k Mechanicus, but I see a lot of people who really get into the"historical accuracy" thing for Horus Heresy armies. Would I be stuck with just the models FW sells, or would making some of my own be OK, since it seems like two or three of the same Magos model would get boring fast, especially in mirror matches.

>>52607428
>They never really had those kinds of numbers to begin with
They started at about that number, and I won't deny Phall and the Siege of Terra bled their ranks...but did they really lose 93000 astartes?
I was rather thinking that
>A
The Fists had more second founding successors, it's only they weren't mentioned. Like how the UM only had 16 successors as well, despite only really defending Ultramar.
>B
400 geneseeds is just an outdated number, and perhaps Perturabo will 4000 or warhammer41000 geneseeds to ascend in the newer fluff.

>>52607532
Ultramarines took horrific losses in the Heresy. They had 250,000 at the start and lost 120,000 with another 30,000 "rendered unfit for combat" at Calth alone.

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>>52607475
>>52607499
Perhaps they only dress as ALs when they know they're being watched by Imperial observers. The ones they're fighting against are ALs disguised as loyalists, to make them send reinforcements to places that need no such thing.

Anyone know how small DA Nephilin is compared to Lightning and/or Xiphon?

>>52607532
In the Beast Arises they had a lot more than 3 successors

>>52607555
>HYDRA
is a bit on the nose.

>>52607550
16 successors from 100000 is still too few marines. Such is war, I guess.
>>52607586
Or it could be like this.

>>52607555
AL dress up as AL for the final, killing blow. Because they get off on showing who exactly fucked your army up so bad that you don't know which orders are real, if the guy next to you is actually on your side so not, etc.

>>52607464
>>52607471
I was answering a question with another question.

The only right answer is it makes a better story.

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>>52607588
>>52607599
Martial Hubris :^)

>>52605256
Yeah I was considering Vultarax too, but I am not fan of the model.

And after Mechanicum there's chance I start a Solar Auxilia army, where a Lightning should be useful.

>>52607610
Lightning are really good in any army, it's just the Vultarax is so much more durable by being a FMC

>>52607576
If you proxy, you are a fag

>>52606201
Shit, that's actually pretty good.

>>52607586
Black templars, iron knights, soul drinkers, fist exemplars, crimson fist and a couple more if I remember correctly.

>>52605759
>They have the Imperial Army for that
The Imperial Army or Guard wasn't what it is today. They were really only an occupying or support force with Soace Marine legions actually doing the brunt of the fighting.

>>52607669
Plus "Unbroken!" works a lot better as a battle cry than certain homebrew ideas /tg/ has seen.

No Hangups about this one.

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>>52607249
>at least he only slaughtered 1/10 of his legion.
I know this is true and I agree with this but holy shit this is kek worthy

>>52607761
You got that the wrong way around. The Imperial Army did the most of the fighting, and the Legions were sent in against the most dangerous foes or if heavy resistance was met.

FW's current seperate armylist actually kind of give the wrong impression of how the Imperial militairy was organised during the great crusade. You had expedition forces made up of Legion, human, and mechanicum forces that were commanded usually by a single individual, which could be an Army commander, Praetor, or Primarch, who selected the composition of the forces for each conflict as he saw fit.

So actually you should be able to use Militia or even SA troops, mechanicum heavy support, and space marine terminators in the same FOC.

I assemble my miniatures while watching hockey. I also do alot of drinking while assembling the dudes.

>>52607772
>He doesn't take the knot

>>52607846
I was trying to be subtle.

Reminder that if you paint your models, you're a faggot shitposter.

>>52607839
What did you have for breakfast those morning anon?

>>52607772
>No Hangups about this one.

Got a moderate kek outta that one sarge

>>52607881
So that explains why 30k has so much less shitposting than 40k...

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Say, with all this talk of shitposters and legion being played/underplayed, what legions does /hhg/ actually even play?

I can think of players, or at least biased posters, from most every legion aside from Ultramarines and Iron Hands.

>>52607893
Before drinking? Usually nothing

After drinking? Something hearty like eggs and sausage.

>>52605687
>Is it bad I really love Titans with shit tons of D weaponry?
Only if you actually play with them. Warhounds with one Turbolaser arm are fine, but use two and you'll piss people off.

>>52607896
Glad to hear it, corporal.

>>52607405

Holy shit, Daemon Magnus is a big boy!

>>52607911
I play Iron Warriors, but only because nobody else could paint hazard stripes.

>>52607911
I remember a few IH players asking about mechanized lists.
But I can't remember a single UM.
...are there any UMs here?

>>52607911
Blud Angles

>>52607911
I play Thousand Sons and Blood Angels because they have the exact same colour schemes and if people ask me just say I've not put the decals on yet.

>>52607911

I have Blood Angels. So far, a Fire Raptor, two Leviathans and.... that is it. I am waiting to get 20-40 mk iv assault marines from FW, with the conversion packs, an Apothecarion set and some more 40k bits before I finally sit down and make the Lost Boys.

>>52608091

I wanted to play UM but their rules just didn't jump out at me.

>>52608173
What were you looking for? What did you end up choosing?

>>52605211
why is that questionable?

I am not the Death Guard guy, but I am assembling a Sons army, and have put a chainfist or 2 on heavy weapon carriers

>>52608314
Well, if that model dies then you not only lose a heavy weapon, but also a chainfist. That's pretty much it.

>>52607382

>Not sunfury plasma Annihilator

>>52608314
Personally, I don't put heavy weapons on termies, but I can see the risk- one man dies, you've just lost your big AV killer and you anti-whatever gun.

On the flip side, nudging him in at the back means you can safely lose 1-2 guys without missing out on any of your toys

>>52608345
But it also means you can lose more models before you lose a heavy weapon or chainfist.

>>52607382
Now let's be fair, we haven't even seen most of the Warlord Weapons.

>>52608382
Still makes the model with all the hot wargear like the most ideal target ever for precision hits. No look out sir possible, all the squad's important things ...

>>52608392
Precision shots/strikes are a thing. Your opponent only needs to get one 6 to put those weapons at risk rather than two. Given sniper vets are really common in 30k, and a lot of people give them plasmaguns for this exact reason, it's pretty risky.

>>52608367
Found the Ryzan. I mean, it's effective, but having your ultimate weapon of Mankind tote a giant dildo cannon around ain't exactly dignified. Dual Volcannons or nothing, on the released weapons list.

Personally I'm hoping the Saturnyne Lascutter is badass. Giant ID Hellstorm template, for when you want to kill Custodes like Guardsmen. If I ever did a Genetor Warlord, which is unlikely since I much prefer the Warhound and Reaver in looks and Titans would be a massive pain to scratchbuild thanks to being mostly vertical, it would have one Volcano Cannon and one of those, because Titan-scale Lightsaber> Claw.

On a side note, closing in on completion of all the loose ends, barring the slight bump of moving house by Friday. Soon I can actually do some kitbashing and post models.

>>52608436
Yes, the three models with Precision Shots and a gun that can actually threaten a termie will surely have a field day then.

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>>52608091
usually when us word bearers start posting a few butthurt girlyman white knights come out the woodwork

Can a single Vulthrax be valid anti-AV14 solution? Or will I need more?

>>52608473
>implying only UMs hate the guys who ruined the entire galaxy and future of mankind
IF here, fuck your shit and the Spawn it rode in on.

>>52608491
A single anything isnt a solution, find redundancy in your army to solve any problems it may have so that if you lose one you may still have another option.

>>52608254

Something fast, hard hitting, assault oriented. I went Blood Angels, as they are actually good in 30k and assault armies actually seem possible in it.

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>>52608491

Vultarax-chan is an MVP if she is used well, but it does depend on how vehicle heavy the enemy list is. One vultarax boosted by cybertheurgy can reliably skullfuck one vehicle every turn it gets to fire. A squad of two will guarantee this, but you can't split fire. Running two maniples of 1 each, or even better one maniple of 2 and one maniple of 1, will get you great results at higher points values, since the 2-bot squad can go after heavy stuff and the lone one can hunt dreads and rhinos.

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>>52608509
>lorgar
>not the saviour of mankind
>''''loyalists''''
>''''loyal'''' to mankind by trying to prevent holy synergy and ascension

things machine men can never understand

>>52608473
>You need to be an UM to dislike WBs
Tell me, o bearer of the word, do you think it was an UM who said have faith, Word Bearer :^) ?

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IMPORTANT QUESTION(S)

SATURNINE TERMINATORS WHEN?

CUSTODES HEAVY DREAD WHEN?

CUSTODES TERMINATORS WHEN?

>>52608080
>nobody else could paint hazard stripes
It seems nobody told >>52607297

>>52608547
>getting taken in by the Chaos """""""""Gods""""""""", the guys who want nothing more than to rape/kill/scheme/poison everyone for all eternity
>not seeing monarchia as a sign of faith
>not being like dorn, who actually loved the emperor, and loved him more than his own desires
>getting shittier and shittier daemons as time goes on and not realising you were getting played
Worst Legion, Worst Primarch.

>>52608547
>Drinking the chaos Kool aid
Open your eyes, preacher boy. The dark gods played you like a damn fiddle.
They didn't care about symbiosis, nor about Horus' rebellion.
At best they wanted an eternity of war and memery.
At worst they only wanted to destroy the Webway, the Emperor and Horus.
They only told Lorgar he shouldn't kill Guilliman because they wanted a chance at either of those things, not because they cared about mankind, and about Lorgar himself even less so.

>>52608546
>>52608520
If only Vulthrax wasn't $90 and 175pts a piece.

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>>52608546
>She, Vultarax-chan
L-lewd

>>52608668
Robots are not for sexual.

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>>52606808
Scoria anon reporting In for DG love

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>>52608750

I AM GOING TO COMMIT A CRIME WITH THAT ROBOT

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Ok, so every Space Marine ranked Lieutenant or higher has the right to have their own personal heraldry. How many of your army have you guys gave personal heraldry to?
Because I never really see any painted.

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>>52608750
Automata is though.

>>52608853

Okay, that's it, stat 2B in 30k.

>>52607400
Nuh-uh, they DO use markings, but nothing more than something that says they belong to the Alpha legion.

Just like there is deception in unity, there is strength in uniform.

>>52608853
2B a cute
9S needs love too

>>52607911
Word Bearers, and they're all BaC/BoP plastics.

:^)

>>52608840
>Personal heraldry
>In the "if it's not in an HH book then it's not canon" heresy
Just saying, even if we do know that heraldry existed (like Fafnir Rahn's), you're going to trigger more than one. I've never seen minis with personal heraldry, and I think it's because of that.

>>52608840
Nobody here is that imaginative.

>>52608750
Excuse me? Since when?

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>>52608929
Haha literally every part of your army sucks

You feel bad now

>>52608979
Not for my 30k army, but my 60+ GK all have their own name and hieraldy.

>>52608884
Yorha pattern No.2 Battle Automata with Ionic flare shield on back angle because dat ass.

>>52608929
Possibly the worst choice m80

>>52607911
thousand sons and space wolves...

>>52604035
>>52604208
is the book bad??

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>>52608915
>>52608853

She suffers from one terrible flaw, however.

Long hair is better than short hair.

>>52603703
Use a number 17 exacto blade...the flat chisel

>>52609007
Ayyyyy, same shit my nigga. Though my collection's a fair bit smaller.

>tfw you keep collecting, converting, and painting cool models and writing actually decent fluff for them, but literally never play them

Waacfags have taken all the fun from my tabletop experience

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Hopefully this formats correctly...

>>52608853
>>52608915
>>52608884
2B WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 4 4 5 3 7 5 7 6+

Unit Composition
• 1 2B

Unit Type
• 2B:
Infantry (Character)

Wargear
• Frag, krak & haywire grenades
• Virtuous Contract*
• Virtuous Treaty*

Special Rules
• Crusader
• Eternal Warrior
• Feel No Pain (4+)
• Fleet
• Hit & Run
• Independent Character
• Move Through Cover
• Precision Strikes
• Relentless

Automaton: 2B is immune to Poison and the effects of Rad and any rules described as using Rad, such as the Rad Furnace of a Scyllax Guardian-Automata.

Unnatural Movement: Despite being an Infantry-type Character, 2B may choose to move 12" in the movement phase.

Quicksilver Dodge: 2B has a 4+ invulnerable save. This is increased to a 3+ invulnerable save against all Wounds inflicted in the Fight sub-phase.

Weapon Range Str AP Type
• Virtuous Contract - User/+1 3/2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Lightning Blows


Weapon Range Str AP Type
• Virtuous Treaty - User+2 2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armourbane

>>52608472

Sniper vets are probably in the top 3 most common units in all of 30k

>>52609113
It's terrible.

>>52609246
I'd field that backside.

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>>52608603
>>52608620

>believing the lies of the Anathema

it's like you don't even want daemonette gfs or something

>>52609262
>implying implications

Until the whole squad can buy chargers, I don't wanna use them. Flames are fun though, I suppose

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>>52608547
>>things machine men can never understand
>the majority of admech joined horus bar ordo reductor
Seems machine men get it better than you everyone else.

>>52608750
wrong

>>52609414
nigga, slaanesh is the god of herms.
what do you think the lesser daemons are?

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>>52609414
>Daemonette gfs
>Instead of qt booty robo gf
Mechanicum forever ;^)

>>52609475
>Mechanicum for ants

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>>52609486
moore's law

>>52608840

It seem s sort of silly to have a generic org table for the legions when (as I understand it) the whole point of the legions was that each was, you know, different. As opposed to post-HH codex astaresization.

Although I'm a Solarfag/Guardfag so what do I know.

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>>52609472
You say it like it's a bad thing :^)

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>>52609486
Fine geez

>>52609113
>Character assassinates the cast of ATS (Hathor Maat is a foolish idiot, Phosis T'Kar is a belligerant idiot).
>All the Thousand Sons are complete morons. they're actually stupid as fuck, consistently, across the entire novel.
>Magnus, T'Kar and Ahriman get schooled by Perturabo and Forrix, 'see you guys aren't so smart are ya' style.
>Ahriman is written like a nervous japanese schoolgirl, and gets treated like a pathetic beta by Forrix.
>Magnus finds a (totally normal human) guy who's lost in a ruined city by telepathically scanning for his mind, then once he finds the guy he scans him again to assess his injuries then rebuilds him with biomancy. The guy is secretly evil but Magnus doesn't notice this, despite scanning the guy's mind.
>There are Chimeras.
>Remember how in ATS is was really cool to see how the cult members used their powers in war? Like Corvidae side-stepping incoming mortar rounds and lining up their gunsights to where people would be and stuff? Fuck that, everyone just throws fireballs now.
>Ahriman forgets he's Corvidae for half the book and shoots lighting, boils blood and uses TK more than his actual divination abilities.
>When he finally uses them, he goes into a trance while he tries to detect incoming danger. 10 seconds after he goes into this trance, Forrix detects the incoming danger by using his eyeballs to see it. Forrix then tanks half a company of PDF-equivalent by himself (in a pretty badass way) while also protecting Ahriman's helpless form.
>The Iron Warriors work out the plot, find out how it's going down, save more people and materiel and get out of dodge, while the TS just run around doing nothing except getting killed.
>Magnus keeps stressing how much he actually loves his sons, like the actual emotion, not just lip-service, then needlessly gets about 40 of them killed over the course of the book.
>Remember Atharva? Wouldn't it be cool if he showed up again? No, as it turns out.
>REFERENCES

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>>52609524
>wordbearers are faggots
Who knew,

>>52608075
For (You)

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>>52607911
Courage and Honour.

>>52607911
admech

>>52609553
Sounds like the whole book is actually about IW

>>52609472
>>the majority of admech joined horus bar ordo reductor

Which divisions in particular joined Horus? I haven't actually read much about the Mechanicus' involvement.

I'm new to 30k, have blood angels gotten a proper write up?

Never played a marine army but I do kind of like Cinnabons.

>>52609669

They have legion rules and some specific wargear in book 6, but no unique units, special characters or primarch rules yet. That is coming in the next book, Angelus.

>>52609651
Mars declares for Horus. That already us more than half the Taghmata. Most Cybernetica also goes the unrestricted way of darkmech.
It actually is pretty strange why the Reductor, already allowed to invent and destroy, stays loyal to the Emperor. I don't know why, but I'm glad they did, otherwise Terra would be lost by having to gave all of the MEATGRINDER legions, including the IW, as well as the Reductors.

>>52609724

Why tho?

>>52609745
I sort of said a lot. Why what?

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>>52609724

Reductor had a huge amount of independence because they were nomadic murderhobos. Most stayed independent or went loyalist because it gave them more shit to destroy, compared to joining Horus.

Is red mandatory for loyalist AdMech color scheme?

>>52609745

Turns out the mechanic umm are... kinda dumb. All you have to do is unlock the vault of Moravic (?) and they'll pretty much do whatever.

>>52609629
It kind of is. It's weird.
For TS fans, it purports to show why Atharva was picked for the Crusader Host (he did something stupid that Magnus doubled-down on and felt guilty about, so banished him - FORESHADOWING DO YOU GET IT) but doesn't actually show that, it's an implication. It's the most oddly balanced Show/Tell since Severian vanishing in tOD.
Speaking of that book, remember how Atharva was insanely powerful? More powerful than any other TS? This book ends with him getting psychically lobotomised, so he *ends* the story setting up his earlier character with the opposite power level.
Then there's also the Magnus does a literal deal with the devil clumsiness. Mags does get a chance to shine when he tanks a direct hit from a main tank weapon, then takes the armour squadron apart with his massive D.

For IW fans, it shows them in the most amazing light. They selflessly devote themselves to a huge humanitarian action, there's pages of them explaining how they're the absolute best at this that stuns the TS at how good they are. Then then out-think the TS and work out what's going on, and fight bravely to save the day.
Forrix is a one-man wrecking crew who completely outshines Ahriman in a hilariously deliberate way.

I like the IW, but holy shit does this book make them out to be amazing. They do stuff traditionally allotted to be the kind of things the TS and the UM are the best at, but better.

>>52609651
>Which divisions in particular joined Horus?

I imagine the Skitarii went full traitor mode considering they answered only to the Fabricator-General and were the army of Mars. It would also explain how they became what they are in 40k, an organization that was atomized and given to every Forgeworld to act as their army or as part of exploration fleets as opposed to one monolithic entity that gives too much power to one person.

>>52609817

So they decide to go to war with the greatest galactic empire of their era because they got a boner for some secret Dark Age tech?

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>>52609651
I haven't read through the entirety of the red book, and that's unlikely to happen anytime soon now that i a bunch of books on top of that now but at the end of the ordo reductor description it says:

it is not known why the ordo reductor should be so singularly different to the Titan legions or the martian mechanicum who, on reflection favour to a margin the traitor cause. or the various Taghmata, swayed by the rulers of their Forge Worlds, going where they led.

they also indicate the castilanexs were being mass produced for a civil war at the end of the great crusader, that mars generally didn't like being locked into the morality expected of imperial rule.

There was also implications of forgeworld to forgeworld agression, ryza's competition cygnix going traitor just so they could fuck them over and no longer exist because of it.

generally speaking it's the, the martion priesthood favoured horus

>>52609844

So it was less 'hurr chaos' and more dickheads, ugly rivalries and skullduggery boiling to the surface in the form of a civil war.

>>52609844

Cogboys should have had their shit pushed in harder post-Scouring desu

>>52609918
In the case of Mars it was Chaos because the Fabricator-General wanted the location of a vault that contained forbidden warp technology that the Emperor and some other dude had locked up because it was fucking chaos.

>>52609818
I like IW, and happy to see them shine, but I'd like to see them shine by their own, not by making other Legion fucking stupid. It makes them look like a Sue or jeroff. ESPECIALLY when the book is THEIRS

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>>52609769
>Most stayed independent or went loyalist because it gave them more shit to destroy, compared to joining Horus.
On the contrary, Shas. I did think of it, but logic would dictate they'd be better off toppling down the Imperial Spires and going full unbound Army of Mass Destruction at Horus' side, since the traitors initially lacked insfrastructure, and in fact capturing forgeworlds instead of destroying them was an important part of their plans.

HOWEVER, what set them appart from their mechanicus brethren was indeed their huge amount of freedom. Being outcasts meant their links to the Imperium weren't like the opressive chains that held back the heavily regulated Cybernetica, which practically jumped at the oportunity of Horus freeing them from their shackles.

That's the main thing I'd argue, that the Reductors were already happy being a sanctioned tool of destruction while the rest of the Mechanicum was tired of its chains.

It is also said, however, that the Reductor simply remained loyal because the traitors had more space marines, which the Reductor wanted to test their creations against. So, if the Dropsite Massacre hadn't happened, or at least if Perturabo had remained loyal (thus netting one side the entirety of the siege legions), then the Reductor would have turned traitor.
Or so it is implied.

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>>52609818
>For IW fans, it shows them in the most amazing light. They selflessly devote themselves to a huge humanitarian action, there's pages of them explaining how they're the absolute best at this that stuns the TS at how good they are. Then then out-think the TS and work out what's going on, and fight bravely to save the day.
>Forrix is a one-man wrecking crew who completely outshines Ahriman in a hilariously deliberate way.
>I like the IW, but holy shit does this book make them out to be amazing. They do stuff traditionally allotted to be the kind of things the TS and the UM are the best at, but better.
I'm an IW, but doesn't this feel like an IW wank? Not about the humanitarian bit, their lives aren't forfeit unless they become militia :^), but aren't they out-sensing and out-smarting the TS in Magnus' own book?

>>52609954

Cogboys being retarded as always

>>52609818
So it's like the Leman Russ book where the Space Wolves keep getting cucked by the Dark Angels.
So far only Guilliman hasn't been cucked in his own book.

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>>52609993
>It is also said, however, that the Reductor simply remained loyal because the traitors had more space marines, which the Reductor wanted to test their creations against.

So they stayed loyal because there was more shit to destroy that way. Exactly what I said.

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>>52610051
>So far only Guilliman hasn't been cucked in his own book.
Oowww man. Then it's going to be a full cuckening in Mortarion's book

>Successful inebriated beer run
Feels good
Back to assembling my dudes.

>>52610076
Ohh, that kind of shit. Living shit, as opposed to infrastructure.
Yeah, sure.

>>52610051

The only one safe so far is Sanguinius.

I doubt this will last.

>>52609794
No.

>>52609928
>Cogboys should have had their shit pushed in harder post-Scouring desu
Oh really, would you like to name one other rogue forgeworld aside from the daemon world xana that still exists (only reason it survives is chaos technomagic but i think it's being invaded in cannon now).

good luck upkeeping your failing machinery without specialized persons.
good luck keeping your state sovereign when religious obligation keeps them from pushing your shit because they are the major weapon's and technology manufacturers of the world

>>52609918
yeah, but in the same manner as the Horus heresy anyway.
chaos worshippers plant the seeds, take control via vague political reasons and then meat-grinding the uncorrupted up first against the loyalists before everyone turns into a warpstew.

>>52609972
i would be happy if they had pert and magnus's relationship take centerfold, from what i remembered they were really the only two dudes who tolerated each other.

>>52610076
>>52609993
>>52610097
I don't really get this, see loyalists also had a massive number of marines, when we accounts for the dropsite and the culling before we still have the largest legions on the loyalist sides and the smallest on the traitors.

Personally I really don't like the grimderp cynicism applied to them on the subject.
it could be a fluke of statistics or it could have been being insular and free left them out of the priesthood's power-play and they simply fought where ever they were. traitors are not the ask questions, shoot later, or even don't shoot our allies types.
could be they were just shoved into the loyalist box because a slaaneshi or khornate got bored. That's what happened to caleb isn't it

>>52609794
red is for mars
Mars were largely traitor
red is more traitorous than loyalist

>>52604035
Why's Magnus evil now?

>>52610203
tragic hero became muscle stan the man

>>52610203
His mind unravelled and he had a long time to brood.

>>52609553
It's very weird that the characterizations are so different between the books when they share an author.

>>52610203
His mind was factured into pieces and the biggest or piece that became DP was the most evil one I guess

>>52610183

Traitors had better and stronger stuff because horus made sure the traitors were better equipped. The Ordo Reductor would probably have a field day breaking it all down.

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>>52610183
>loyalists also had a massive number of marines
Of the 18 legions, half were loyalist and half were traitor.
Then suddenly 3 loyalist legions were practically eliminated from the conflict overnight. As such, the loyalists had lots of marines, but the traitors simply had more. Remember the IWs originally outnumbered the IFs almost two to one, the WE initiated massed induction and nobody really knew for sure how many AL & WBs, as they had also increased induction in secret.
This excerpt is pretty much the only bit implying the OR wanted to fight marines. My headcanon would be that they were already content in being Imperials, and that the opportunity to legally fight marines was an added bonus.

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>>52610261
I suppose so
>>52610299
I was thinking EC, TS being rather small before the purge and then even smaller after and the loss of troops in the early days must of sucked.
butyou are right i mean the girllymanne horde was likely on par with IW even with IW meatgrinder.

>My headcanon would be that they were already content in being Imperials, and that the opportunity to legally fight marines was an added bonus.
it's not a bad theory.

>>52610350
I like how FW sometimes encourages you to complement stuff with your headcanon by keeping things vague, since the official version is "it's a mystery".

>>52609414
>Believing the literal Great Deceiver

Traitor Legions are truly the ultimate cucks.

Because my AL have a serious lack of blast weapons I'm considering getting a squadron of 2 vindicators. However, the last time I used one myself was somewhere in ... 5th edition, and the other 30k players here never field vindicators, so could anybody tell me how viable vindicators are ? My army usually is lots of different units in power armour, most embarked in 4 to 6 Rhinos, and a few 'toolbox' units like a venator and/or contemptor-mortis.

>>52609414
>>52610433

The inevitable meetup between Lorgar and a bunch of Necron lords which ultimately results in Lorgar getting verbally BTFO and the mind break of a daemon primarch is going to be absolutely hilarious.

>>52610299
>Of the 18 legions, half were loyalist and half were traitor.
True, but the traitor legions had to cull the loyalists from their own ranks which would have reduced their numbers fairly significantly.

>>52610350

Did the TS really partake in any engagements after Prospero? I thought they fucked off for the remainder of the war.

>>52610440
i mean they are medusas with shorter range (30" with 6 inch ordnance move) and without barrage.
av 13 isn't bad but that shit will melt if you see anything vaguely AT. don't expect great things out of it unless it's used just right, you're likely only going to get one maybe 2 shots, against a conventional list while unconventional is a toss up.
In your list it could turn everything into a tank parking lot with all those rhinos but you do have the bonus of rhino cover.
otherwise it's the same solid anti everything ordnance weapon you knew and loved in 5e, just wont' stay on the table forever
I'd personally prefer the medusa but I'm a cunt.

>>52610626
I'm not sure, I was thinking numbers over all.
I mean you have ~9000 even less after Russ goes furshit on it and then you still have like what couple thousand (sons) still running about at large.
Though we are looking at this a bit backasswords.
i doubt the reductor really knew about the numerical strength of the marines, more likely saw Horus is winning and thought, i want to shit on him

>>52610668

I'm just trying to get an accurate headcount on traitor and loyalist numbers post-Drop Site Massacre.

>>52610699
i mean that's going to be tough.
but even then TS would still be traitor even if not actively working against mankind.

It's going to be handful here, handful there.
the only thing i can be sure of is the loyalists were large enough to drive off the traitors.
abbadon can't be so much of a faggot that when papa horus dies he'd wiggout and horus was clearly going for a decapitating blow here

>>52610699
>accurate or reasonable numbers
>in any GW production

good luck with that one bud

Manpower exists at the level needed for plot.

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>>52610633
The reason medusas didn't seem such a good option is because my army usually is inside the opponent's deployment area before turn 3. That usually means that stationary gunline units are left behind with way too little protection, meaning any fast, outflanking, or deepstriking unit can easily come in and shoot it to bits.
Now Medusas can potentially drive and fire, keeping up with the rest of the army, but they're even more fragile than vindicators.

And with the Machine Spirit upgrade a vindicator can move 12'' and still fire. My hope is that two of them can cause enough damage with one shot that the marines have an easier time of mopping up everything else.

>>52610806

I figured they were relying really hard on White Scars, Dark Angels and Blood Angels being way the fuck out, and Space Wolves getting obliterated by Magnus or vice versa. I also expect they thought they could damage the Ultramarines worse than they did. Lorgar taking Kairos at face value is an exceptional level of retardation of course. And then Salamanders and Raven Guard were decimated, while Iron Hands walked away with the least amount of casualties after the drop site massacre.

Who does that leave in the traitor's corner? World Eaters (didn't they start imploding after a short period), Emperor's Children (same thing), Iron Warriors (who ate the brunt of the fighting, especially the Siege of Terra iirc? because the monogod legions fucked off), Sons of Horus.

Death Guard iirc were awol for a good portion of it after Typhus' betrayal.

They may have started with numerical superiority but they NEEDED the Ruinstorm and martian civil war to cover their asses. They NEEDED to take out Terra as soon as possible. They NEEDED to win quickly because most of the legions started fragmenting as chaos' insanity settled in.

The only ones keeping their shit together seemed to be IW, SoH, AL and maybe NL. Am I wrong?

>>52610835
>machine spirit
jesus I didn't know they got that.
then again I'm a mech player, I don't know the ins and outs of marines.
>fucking butthurt about not getting that on the krios, fast + power would be pretty fun.
>My hope is that two of them can cause enough damage with one shot that the marines have an easier time of mopping up everything else.
i mean it's a bit of a toss up.
you aren't as likely to smash a tank on the first hit but you'll likely get your points back with your blood angel vindicators.
so it should be solid.

>>52610668
IIRC in ATS about ~1200 or so marines got transported to Planet of Sorceres

>>52610835

Things like this are why I don't play footslog blobs or jump infantry anymore. Everything goes in a drop pod or is a flyer.

Had my first practice session with green stuff. Its tougher than you would think.

>>52610997
I seriuosly don't know why it sticks more to my finger than plastic. I thought their's oil and sweat on my skin so it would glue onto platic.

>>52610951
It's the reason I have 6 Rhinos. It's crazy how most people consider marines to be glass-cannon units at best.

>>52611050
I think using Tweezers might help

So is Vindicator a poor man's Medusa? I mean plastic.

>>52611050
Plastic is way more smooth. Hands are evovled to provide as much friction and grip as is usefull to avoid falling down when climbing trees after all.

It is a good idea to keep a cup of water near when working with greenstuff, where you can dip your fingers and tools in to keep them moist so the GS doesn't stick to them.

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>>52611102
> I mean plastic.
vindicator comes in resin too anon.
hot mildly warped resin

>>52611102
Basilisk is easy to covert into a medusa. Or just buy a Chimera hull online and mount a 3rd party gun on it.

>>52611125
funnily, that is how the medusa is built. they give you a basilisk, some resin and tell you to go wild

>>52611102
Well there is the Deimos pattern vindicator, which is mostly resin which I think looks butt-ugly Sounds more like a thinking man's medusa.

It is possible to easily convert a medusa out of the plastic basilisk kit.

>>52610915
The Night Lords ceased operating as a legion after they got crushed by Lion and BTFO on Sotha.

>>52604548
They hate each other's visions of the IWs. It would never work. Or Peturabo would go compeltely bipolar.