Warmachine/Hordes General

First for Xerxis being the pinnacle of honour and respectability.

Where can I find tournament lists for retribution? I own mk2 griffon spam which doesn't seem as good anymore and then a fairly random selection of troops and casters

Is Rahn any good without Helios? I'd rather not buy another colossal for a while

How does Xerxis1 and Makeda3 sound for a pairing? Xerxis spams dudes including delicious murder cats, Makeda3 bullies the board around. What weaknesses can a pairing even have? Neither of these are THAT vulnerable to assassination. Hell the Xerxis list would have stupid assassination game of its own so fuck worrying about that. And people at my LGS don't even know how to tackle my Makeda3. So fuck it whatever.

>>52588025
>how do i netdeck?

>In addition to testing battle engines, the Battle Engine CID cycle will feature a few other models that we want to put under the lens. The largest group will be Cryx’s Bane models. While we will be taking feedback about Bane models during the entire cycle, we want to have a special hyper-focused discussion for them on April 27. This will take the form of a thread in the Dev Talk section of the CID forum. It will be open from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. PDT, and our developers will be active in the thread responding to community thoughts about these models and their theme force.

Cryxmas is here!

>>52588025
Discountgames .com has a lot of top tournament list. As for Rahn Helios can work for him, but usually he would rather have arc nodes. Helios does work well with Vyros 1&2, Issyria (she lets him see through stealth protects him from spells and gives him extra charge range) Thryron ( assail on him makes him more focus efficient, and lets him run a swarm of cleaving griffons) and mostly Helynna( while rhythm of war won't effect him he can power a fleet of war jacks who can, and with poltergeist and repulsor field with helynna's repair and feet make Helios very resillant.)

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>>52588025
>>52588543
>>52589118

You can't just give them lists. They'll keep coming back for more without learning anything as themselves.

>>52589274
The lists are meaningless to them anyway. If they don't know enough to make the list themselves, they won't be able to use the list to anywhere near it's max.

>>52589274
Meh net decking isn't bad when you are starting out, and seeing what people are using can help you find new combinations you never thought about. The problem with net decking comes with a persons attitude not the process itself.

>>52588025
>I own mk2 griffon spam which doesn't seem as good anymore
It's still good.

Another problem with net decking is that all the big cons etc are their own little meta. Sentry stones don't do shit in my meta because I have 3 players who run defender warded errants. 14/18 vs ranged fucks over stones hard.

Anyone knows where can i find mk2 rulebook?

This general is about as dead as the game
Glad I sold all my crap before mk3 came out

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>>52590920
>wow this general is getting buried by the constant flood of 40K and Age of Shillmar threads, here's my chance to shitpost
I'm sorry that your playergroup doesn't extend beyond the boundaries of this shitty website, anon.

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>>52587794

Are Minions viable as a full army, especially from a newbie perspective?
I love the appearances, I think I understand the playstyles, and I like the idea of playing an uncommon army.
I'm well aware that they have a smaller roster to pick from, but it still seems to offer enough options for multiple list options.
Similarly I have heard that they are weaker on the power curve, but as far as I am concerned that just means I'll learn quicker.

Specifically, Rask & Arkadius. Both run in theme?

Any advice welcome, or potentially a decent Mk3 tactica.

>>52591745
Yeah, minions have plenty of good stuff these days. The new theme force for Gators is good and outside of themes you can mix and match Gators and pigs now which is pretty great.

Does legion have any attrition game or am I fucking retarded for every trying to play them that way? I always feel like I'm just pressing my face into a grinder until I see an opening in my opponents defenses to plunge a dagger/angelius. If the opening never comes I get steamrolled

>>52591969
They shouldn't be playing for attrition really. maybe thagrosh can but that's about it

Rolled 4 (1d6)

Making a tough check

>>52593583
Stay Death

It's overpowered

>>52593620
>tfw I lost a game because my opponent made 4 successful no-knockdown tough-rolls with his caster.

Could someone point me to that old forum thread that lists the contents of every NQ issue?

>>52591745
Minions are one of my main factions, specifically Pigs in theme. I started the game years ago with Cygnar, still love the faction, and am great with all my lists, but my Pigs have a special place in my heart. I tend to play my Pigs a lot more on point than my other lists, they just clicked with me. I can provide my list if wanted.

>>52588260

doesn't sound too awful, Makeda3 endures gunlines v. well and also plays a mean scenario game. If you have Chiron I'd slot him in her list - Counterblast OoA POW 15 3d6 from Makeda alongside a Counterblast boosted POW 15 3d6 spray from Chiron himself thanks to Vortex is solid deterrent tech against heavy assassination and he compounds the anti-ranged component of most builds you'll use.

>>52591969

Legion plays attrition awkwardly with Fyanna and certain Twins lists leveraging Star Crossed Guard Dog DEF 18 Rhyas for free value swings that recur since you just feat Rhyas back (also Thags as >>52592051 mentioned). I'm not sure how sufficient those are now into Khador tiers (particularly Strakhov2 Legion of Steel which seems insanely solid as an infantry block given the Feign Death and very high ARM coupled w/ select burst output via Last Stand CMAs and the boggling amount of board space it occupies top of 1) or Heavy Metal Cygnar which operate in different ways and I don't think they do so hot versus Amon either but IDK really. JVM ran a v. funky Rhyas1 list leveraging Proteus and Rhyas' feat turn to jump him 18-20" and secure downtown assassinations - you might have more success utilizing that since it's v. difficult to avoid the 4" Chain Strike followed by the base hop in2 4" Chain Strike at MAT 8.

>>52591745
>>52594663
That and the fluff/aesthetic behind the faction and how they act/do things is super entertaining.

Grymkin aren't getting a Battlebox btw. Source: WIll Pagani on CID Forums.

"We are aware of this issue. There will be no official battle box, but Journeyman Leagues will have a battle box equivalent. This will be announced with the 2017 Journeyman League packet and will not be decided until all points are solidified to their final values."

Also the Wanderer's lost Admonition for Repudiate, his Trump Arcana has changed to "can transfer a hit for no Fury" and the FA on the Gremlin Swarms in Dark Menagerie is probably going to 3 or 4. The Witchwood also lost its corpse collecting and its RAT dropped to 6 and cannot be played in Dark Menagerie anymore.

>>52594946
We've known this since Grymkin were originally announced

Thanks for sharing though?

>>52594946
>>52595612
What the fuck is a grymkin?

>>52595684
Fair folk types.

>>52594946

Would it be safe to assume they're at least getting an all in one box like Cephalyx did?

>>52588543
So it's okay to mention the list and how often people use it but not see the lists themselves? A little backwards...

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I'd like a little rule clarification please/
Rush says that "Target friendly Faction gains +2" movement when advancing as part of it's normal movement..."
Charging is a part of normal movement correct? So if I were to charge with a Rush'd Dire Troll Mauler, he would charge 5"+3"+2" for a total of 10" right?
Also do warbeasts/warjacks need to spend focus/fury to make star attacks?

>>52598204
>Charging is a part of normal movement correct? So if I were to charge with a Rush'd Dire Troll Mauler, he would charge 5"+3"+2" for a total of 10" right?

yes

>Also do warbeasts/warjacks need to spend focus/fury to make star attacks?

no

Going to a 16 player Steamroller in Southport, England in an hour or so. I've seen pictures of the tables already and the terrain is both sparse and tiny. Apparently the LGS's best player is Cygnar, and frankly I'm not surprised if their tables are this much of a shooting gallery.

Opinion time!
What is the worst heavy jack in the game, and why is it the Mad Dog?

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Newish Trollbloods player here.
I'm liking the synergy between Ragnor, A Mauler and an Axer with rush/pulverizer on the Mauler and rage on the Axer.
Who might be some other warlocks I would want to look into?

>>52598813
we've all been there my friend :(

So does Julius intend to give Llael back their land, or is he about to create the Greater Swan Reich?

>>52600290
Considering he's trying to marry the true heir to the Llaelese throne, my money's on the second one.

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>>52600290
>>52600385
And don't forget about all those poor Thurians in Ord, yearning for righteous Cygnaran government.

>>52600475
No worries. The armies of Cygnar shall bring them democracy! Or monarchy in this case.

>>52599563
That's a funny way to spell Reliant

>>52599563
Even in-faction, the Berserker is worse than the Mad Dog. Even now, I would consider a Mad Dog if my opponent played something 75 points of 12/12 infantry dudes I can trample over.

A Berserker on the other hand, I would never ever play.

So, with Goreshade switching, what other warcasters/warlocks would you want to see jumping between factions?

>Bane Lord Zoktavir

Pls PP. You can replace him in Khador with a Doom Reaver caster or something.

>>52602423
Hoarluk "I change my mind, humans are cool now" Doomshaper.

Cygnar is his home anyways. :D

>>52602423
You will never get Lola, give up zombie-scum.

How many out and out BAD warjacks are there? I look through warroom and don't see many that I can't find a use for anywhere.

I don't know crap about hordes, though. How many of those are "unplayable?"

>>52602763
I mean, almost any Warjack has its uses. Slap a couple buffs on one and throw it at something, and most likely SOMETHING'll happen.

The issue with "bad" warjacks is they're mostly just sub-optimal choices. It's hard to beat a Crusader for the role of "beatstick" because it's cheap, fairly tough, and has a POW 18 mace that hey, might set something on fire. Hard to beat that! Bring pSevvy, drop two down with BoV for dat arc, and enjoy the efficiency.

>>52602763
I agree with >>52602841, it's not that there's outright BAD models it's just that there's models that do what the not-good choices do better, like the Prime Conflux vs. Prime Axiom. In a vacuum, the Conflux has some good shit and it's priced very well. But when the other option for a single point more is arguably the best colossal in the game, why would I even make it a choice?

>>52602763
I know that the Night Troll is generally considered unplayable, but that's the only one I can really think of off the top my head

>>52602505
I don't even play Cryx, I just think it would be super cool.

Imagine a character unit of Bane Butcher and three spectres disguised as his dead wife, egging him on and come hithering him toward the enemy. Few spells, but placing the spectres in certain places grants cool effects. Putting one in melee range of an enemy model grants members of Butcher's battlegroup Boundless Charge when targeting that model, putting one in B2B with a helljack gives it Dark Shroud, keeping one on Butcher gives him an extra FOC to boost/buy attacks, etc.

How viable would me a mainly ranged cryx army, now that they have gunmage satyx and the new character pistol wraith?

>>52598813
That's actually really dumb. As per MK3, your actually supposed to have a lot of varied terrain, so shooting galleries ARENT a thing...

>>52602927
Night Troll was actually used for assassination at Adepticon, p sure it killed Kaya3 for a win in a later round

>>52602763

Legion's lucky in that basically all of their heavies are good to great and have decently well defined roles.

Once you go down smaller things get dicey. The lessers are all pretty bad in MK3 and compete points wise with Legion's great support solos. The Afflictor is cheap for a medium beast but really can't do much turn one dude a round into an Incubus, which is pretty underwhelming. Teraph is alright and sees play occasionally. Raeks and Nightlurkers are real good shit.

The Nephilim in particular are a mixed bag. Bolt Thrower is good but won't slot into ever list. Protector and Bloodseer have some very niche uses. Soldier is still very underwhelming as an offense focused warbeast even post buff, since for 3 more points you might as well upgrade to a Neraph or use those points on a Nightlurker.

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>>52603154
Huh.
Well I suppose a Rage'd Night Troll could do some serious damage to a caster with a free charge.
Was Kaya3 knocked down?

>>52602901
You also forgot that conflux is not supported nor synergizes with anything except A SINGLE jack in the entire faction.

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>>52587794
What the fuck is this shit OP? No link to previous thread and no command links in the op either? Fucking worthless.

>>52603417
I have no idea. I know that that act changed how I look at troll lights, and as a result I picked up a Swamp Troll and named him Shrek.

>>52603509
that's true too, yeah. I really want more support for the Conlfux, and I'm hoping that we get it in the form of a new caster

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My Assault Kommandos are still in the mail. Now I have to wait til monday/tuesday.

And when they're here, I can't even pick up my Forge Seers at the store on the same day, because they release on the 12th.

Just got back from a relatively competitive Steamroller. Went 1-3.

Hoo boy are Venator Slingers shit :^)

>>52606643
They're a jam unit that sometimes does work.

And when you can stack buffs/debuffs for them, they can do a shitload of work.

>>52606730
I'd rather just bring Swordsmen for the same points since they're basically guaranteed to get work done.

>>52606768
It's not the same points when you consider the UA is what lets them get work done, Swordsmen don't have AD, and they're sure as shit not guaranteed to get work done.

>>52607061
Who said anything about the UA? 13 points for MAT7 PS13 is already a sweet deal if they're just jamming half the time. This is just me comparing Slingers to Swordsmen in a vacuum though. Obviously you'll always want the UA because you tend to play Swordsmen with Makeda1 or Xerxis1 for those dumb turns.

>>52607101
But one thing I'm definitely going to do is start using Ferox and get hold of Rhadeim. One guy at the Steamroller won 2 rounds with Rhadeim assassination out of nowhere. Xerxis1, Stir the Blood, pop feat, leap behind for pseudo MAT10 PS14+3d6 ARM piercing. That's a dead warcaster right there.

>>52600290
It would be Llael still, but Cygnar has a Personal Union over it. His kid would be the king of Cygnar and Llael. I don't forsee Cygnar actually annexing Llael for while yet.

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;_;7

>>52607614
He was never great or even very good. Why are you so devastated now?

>>52607851
Not so much devastated as using a tongue-in-cheek tone to notet that all the Garryth hype during Mk3 spoilers didn't pan out.

It's hard being a hands-on assassination caster with a glass jaw.

>>52599563
Triumph. this was true in mk2 as well.

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>>52608109
It's a shame too, because shield+heavy gun is my favorite warjack setup.

>>52608073
There was no real hype.

People looked at him and realized he was viable now. But other warcasters are much more viable. Garryth sees a lot more casual play than he used to, as he can now be a genuine assassination threat, but he doesn't appear in tournaments.

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>tfw PP isn't taking my LGS's order
Fuuuuuck I want to fight something more than just battleboxes

>>52611567
What? PP doesn't fulfill orders, that is what distributors are for. Or your LGS is lying to you.

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>>52611842
I hope they're not
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what they are doing

>>52611925
PP supplies product through distributors, which is what your store can order from. Distributors may be out of stock for some products but restock regularly. Your LGS should be able to get most things within a week or two.

Since everyone starts with Khador, I decided to against the grain and play Cygnar as my first faction. Is there anything essential outside of the Starter Box I need?

>>52612377
Junior Warcaster, Squire. And a Charger or two.

>>52587794
Does anyone know where I can download NQ #19? The link in the OP doesn't have it anymore.

>>52612280
>Your LGS should be able to get most things within a week or two.
Only if he's within the US.

Is Molik Karn is insane as he reads on paper? Never played against Skorne before.

>>52614980
You should have seen him last edition. Current Karn is reasonable.

>>52614980
Karn is good, maybe even great, but suffers from having a big "FUCKING SHOOT ME" sign over his head. If you can deliver the Molik Missile, shit's dying, but he can be something of a crutch for inexperienced Skorne players, as his gameplan is "get him upfield and apply sword to face". He works well with another big threat, like a Bronzeback, as the enemy will likely only be able to fuck up one before the other gets in and starts doing work.

>>52613911
my LGS in Canada also gets things within a week or two

Super newfag question... Can anyone post a rundown of playstyles for each faction up to date?

>>52616410
I don't really think factions have playstyles anymore, there is enough caster diversity that every faction does everything.

I play circle and people would say high defense/movement shenanigans. But one of the most played casters in circle is Baldur2 which is a high arm beast brick skew.

Same with skorne, they would say slow/high arm faction but I Play a ton of makeda 1/xerxis2 which has fucking spd 8 beasts flying around the board.

>>52616410
I might get a few not 100% correct, as I only really play 3 of them, but have seen enough of them played to give a general rundown.

Convergence of Cyriss: Every piece is a cog in the machine. The clockwork faction is very much that; like clockwork. Order of operations is key, as the trickle of Focus through your jacks, and shenanigans from support pieces, help to bring the full potential to your faction. Aesthetic: Art Deco living robot people.

Cryx: Debuffs EVERYWHERE. Debuff your opponent to make your *just slightly* lower statline (than average) turn into a *slightly* higher statline (than average). Some buffs too. Lots of Soul and Corpse token usage here. Corrosion is their tool of choice. Aesthetic: The undead. Also, Satyxis ladies (horned demon pirate ladies). Great Rack.

Cygnar: WW2 era America with Lighting. Trench dudes, lighting usage on half the faction. JUNIOR + ARCANE SHIELD. The "elite" faction, you could say? Everything is just a liiiiiittle more expensive, point wise, but just slightly higher quality (see Stormblades). No "Heavy" infantry in-faction. They use Mercenaries a LOT. Aesthetic: Blue, yellow, and gold WW2 America. With Crazy Lightning Scientists(TM).

Khador: WW2 Soviet Russia. Here is your rifle, here is your ammo. The "infantry" focused faction. The faction (for fluff reasons) do NOT have ANY Light warjacks. Instead, they use dudes in Ironman Mark 1 style powerarmor as their "light 'jacks." Will usually take just a few 'Jacks and lots of infantry. Aesthetic: Ice and wintery themes, Soviet Russia, RED, FOR ZA MOZALAND (and the Empress, she p cool).

Legion of Everblight: Little fuzzy on this one. Lots of support pieces, usually plays warbeast heavy, with a few units backup. Buffs and debuffs abound. Eyeless Sight is their signature tool (it lets you ignore a couple effects in-game related to LoS). Aesthetic: DARGONS. You like Zerg/Tyranids, right? Mix those with a LITTLE Cthulu.

1/?

>>52616410
>>52617053

Protectorate of Menoth: Holy Zealots from the desert. VERY much the "force your enemy to play YOUR way" faction. Buffs for your 'Jacks and Units, and Debuffs and Detriments for your Enemies. CHOIR FOREVER AND ALWAYS IN EVERY LIST. Fire effects on 90% of the faction. Fluff-wise, their God Menoth is VERY MUCH giving His power to them in battle. Aesthetic: THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU, YOU HEATHEN HERETIC SCUM. Ordo Hereticus.

Retribution of Scyrah: Another one I'm a little fuzzy on. They have a good amount of Stealth, and LOTS of 'Caster assassination options. I like to think of this faction as the "Glass cannon knife in your back." Little less durable, but has the potential to f stuff up. Some key support pieces, and some solid good infantry options. Aesthetic: Elves. Magic elves. With lots of space-ship looking gear. Rounded and silver everywhere. Futurism look.

Skorne Empire: I have the least experience with Skorne, unfortunately. No one I play with regularly plays this faction. They use lots of Blood magic, and they punish their foes in ways aside from just with damage. Some good buffs, and debuffs. A few key supports. Less shooty options than most other factions.
Aesthetic: Persian 300. Lots of body horror. Flesh pain hooks in most of the flesh. HORABURU SAMURAI DESU kinda faction, with their "Hoksune Code" thing. Kill the enemies while you stare into their eyes and call them a bitch. Guns are for bitches.

2/?

>>52588543

Warmachine is the MTG of Miniature wargames, what did you expect?

>>52616410
>>52617053
>>52617214

Trollbloods: The only faction you could call "Neutral Neutral." Looooooots of buffs. Buffs everywhere, all the times. Out of the whole faction, 95% of it is on a Medium or larger sized base. VERY few things in this faction can be considered "small." Also kinda "order of operation" faction, like Cyriss, but not in quite so much of a rigid, clockwork way. Very fluid order of operations, to meet the need of the turn. Aesthetic: Big blue trolls. Rocks growin' out of em. Their dudes; OI, YA LEIK UR HAGGIS 'N MEAD, DONCHA LAD!? Their beasts; FEED ME MOAR.

Circle of Orboros: Forest druid people that are trying to keep the World God from waking up and fucking everything. Harder to hit, faster than average. Movement shenanigans on quite a bit of stuff, but slightly less so than Mark2. 3/4th of their faction are Werewolves and Satyrs, and things like that, and the other bit is Stone Golem themed things, which are the opposite. Slow/high armor. Aesthetic: Green, stones, wood, gold. Lots of fur pelts/furry creatures.

Mercenaries: Grab-bag of things. Every piece can be brought with the other Warmachine factions, or made into a Mercenary-only list. 4 main themes within; Pirates, Dwarves, Mercs for Hire, and oh yeah, the MIND FUCK(TM) guys. Pirates are the traditional kind of theme pirates. Dwarves are not your DnD style dwarves, no beards/booze. Mercs for Hire is most of the stuff here, which can be split up via fluff-things, but not really playstyle/aesthetic. And Cephalyx. The boogiemen of the city. The dudes you hear whispers of in the night. Lots of mind powers, and enslaved humans. Can ONLY be taken as a Cephalyx army, or a few pieces can be brought into Cryx.

3/?

>>52616410
>>52617053
>>52617214
>>52617360

Minions: Hordes version of Mercs. Pig-men and Gators. Pigs are very much the scavenger faction. Lots of bits and pieces from other factions they have clashed with, on their weapons/armor. Crazy Doctor Man turned some pig-dudes into mechanical monsterpigs. Gators are very Cajun. Lots of Undead/Death magic. Amphibious on 99% of their stuff, meaning they give no fucks about water.


Take into consideration that in each faction, there are options that are completely different than the "Norm" of the faction. And each faction has a few different playstyles you COULD get out of them. Basically, my suggestion, is to find a few factions you jive with aesthetically/thematically. Out of those choices, look deeper and see what kinda playstyles they offer, and go from there. In my opinion, theres no reason to play a faction that you dislike visually/thematically/aesthetically/lore-wise, just cause they are "DA BEST." Play what you enjoy, find what works and what makes you have the most fun.

4/4

>>52617241
This. You either play a meta list or lose.

How many years did mkii and mki exist?

>>52617841
Only if you're bad.

>>52614980
Fuck no. 19 points to annihilate a single model is pretty shit considering he will NOT survive a heavy going on him. If Skorne had access to Greivous Wounds outside of a single upkeep on Makeda3 to my knowledge, he'd be MUCH better since he could charge in, slap something twice, sidestep back, then move another 5" back.

Unless you're looking at the Mk2 card, in which case yeah he's insane.

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>>52614980

the nerf to sidestep/change of bond to sidestep really gimped his niche as a laser guided scalpel with anyone but a makeda and in conjunction w/ the meta shift towards multi heavy box spam (with a substantial portion of competitive lists running up to 8-9 heavies) its not tenable to run a 19 point heavy unless its presence amplifies your own list exponentially (i.e. Chiron and Zaadesh2).

>>52618470
You mean the nerfs to:
>Sidestep
>His bond
>Makeda1
>His animus
>The Bronzeback's animus
>Puppet Master
>The initial removal of free charges
Gimped his niche.

>>52618331
>>52618470
Okay, I'll take the actual word of Skorne players for it.

Still, 6 Weaponmaster attacks in combination with any kind of buff/debuff seem pretty scary.

>>52618509
>Makeda1
>nerfed
Not anymore.

>>52618646
None of the Makedas can buff his damage, and Carnage is a questionable MAT buff. The only damage buff available is Makeda3's Vortex of Destruction, and that's not even close to a viable option now that his animus has been ground into the dirt.

And if you aren't using him with a Makeda, you're doing it all wrong.

>>52618698
Yeah she's great NOW. But damn my balls just won't stop aching from the kicking they got when my favourite caster had her cards revealed for Mk3.

>>52618741
>And if you aren't using him with a Makeda, you're doing it all wrong.
Zaddesh2, Xerxis2, Morghoul2 to name just a few.

>>52618758
19 points just feels like extortion. I'd probably prefer a Warpwolf Stalker's card over him at that point, and that feels wrong to say about the legendary Molik Karn. He just feels so VANILLA man.

>>52618470
Has Chiron's card been leaked?

How long will this edition last before needing a mkiv?

>>52620142
>This edition is shit, I can't wait for the next one!

>>52620142
Like 2023 or something.

>>52619893
Spd 6, Mat 6, Rat 6, Def 12, Arm 18, Cmd 8
Fury 4
Threshold 9
Damage 30
PC 19
FA C
Large Base

Assault
Bond [Xekaar]: Boosted ranged attack rolls
Dig In
Leadership [Basilisks]: when a friendly basilisk ends its activation in Chiron's Cmd, you can remove 1 fury from that basilisk

Annihilating Gaze, Sp 10, Rof 1, Pow 15, Damage type: Magical, Inflict Pain
Bite, Rng 1", PS 16
2x Claws, Rng 1", PS 14, Open Fist

Animus: Counterblast

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>>52620225
So THIS is why the Drake's animus got the nerfhammer.

>>52620201
I'm looking forward to 8 edition 40k after quitting at 5th so yeah?

It's hit that critical stage where nothing they do could make me happy currently.

>>52620258
Its sort of a nerf. Sort of not. Previously it was capable of giving Bushwhack to another model. Now its self only but also gives Pathfinder. Its utility changed. You can still bushwhack the drake to where it needs to go to threaten for the Krea. You just aren't Bushwhacking Chiron, Cannoneers, Dakaars, Sentinels.

>>52620646
They made it give pathfinder to try and pretend it was an intentional sidegrade and not YET ANOTHER self cast animus.

>>52618331
>>52618470
Comments like these are just lingering butthurt IMO. Believe me, I was in the same boat as everyone else in Skorne being salty as shit about absolutely everything last summer, so I get it. But current Karn, with everything else he now has access to, is in a good spot.

No, he's not INSANE. He's actually right at the point designers should be aiming for with character models - not an auto-include, but almost feels that way with his bonded caster, and strong enough to be really interesting with a few others.

>>52620672
Self cast animus was the worst change

t.troll player

>>52593706
Yeah toughness is a crappy mechanic.

And this is coming from a trollbloods player

>>52620727
>Skorne finally gets access to Spiny Growth
>Its on the Rhinodon
>Better make it Self cast

>>52620714
19 points for a heavy with no tricks or cute plays to pull will NEVER feel good. Reposition 5 is a really shitty animus too senpai. If you want to use it, you can't pop a Krea bubble or Spiny Growth or anything.

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>>52620770
>all that leadup saying the Rhinodon will be good
>love the model, want to field the angery stegomasaurus
>mk3 drops
>it's fucking nothing

>>52620796
>Skorne players start bitching
>PP decides to buff the Rhinodon
>gives it some arm, str, and calls it a day
>thing is still shit but hey its a "bargain bin heavy"

>>52617945
like 7 years each I wanna say?

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>>52620437
>"Every edition after 5th was shit, but maybe 8th will be great!"
Why are optimists so retarded?

>>52621297
That's not optimism. That's just plain retardation.

>>52620892
Don't forget +1RNG on the thresher. Hoo boy was that the biggest fucking oversight in all of Mk3.

>We're dropping your thresher's range down to the same as your other 2 initials, so you may as well not have a thresher since you rarely have more than 2 models in 1" range anyway, which means using initials is actually better for you since it's more chances to hit!

Honestly the Rhinodon is fine now, especially with a free charge in. Charge into a unit, thresher some dickheads down, put up Spiny Growth, and laugh as they bounce off your 11/20 ass. And he hits hard enough to just about kill most heavies. For 12 points he does exactly what you'd expect and probably a lot more.

And since we have a bunch of cycnical salty Skorne faggots here, I really want help with making a Mordikaar list that doesn't feel like it loses to battlegroups because he's my husbando.

>(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Archidon [10]
- Despoiler [19]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Saxon Orrik [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]

>Titan Cannoneer
Mordikaar's gun isn't good enough to use as a gun because of the RNG being low enough to put him in danger. Snipe solves this. I was originally going to bring a Raider for the cheapest Snipe source, but spending 8 points for +2RNG, AOE4, and +2POW on a fucking TITAN BODY feels very worth it. It's like the Cannoneer is ROF2 because now Mord can shoot too.

>Swoosemen + UA
I'm torn between these and Nihilators. Mord does NOTHING for them, and the UA is expected to make it across the table. Nihilators just do their thing all the time.

>Ferox
Hold one back, send the other 4 forwards. If they die, I Revive and continue to jam. If they don't, I'm jamming my opponent hard with those big bases.

This is probably paired with Xerxis1 dudespam for dicespam.

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I would love to play against Skorne. They are actually the only faction I haven't fought yet.

>>52621669
A lot of Skorne players haven't played against them either. I was at a 16 player Steamroller this weekend, 4 Skorne players including myself. I wanted a mirror so badly, but managed to dodge the whole thing. The event was won by Zaal1/Xerxis1 after a Khador player in round 3 tabled the guy but got Vlad killed by a fucking Kovaas. Like, the Skorne player's board consisted of Zaal, a Krea, and a Kovaas. That's it. The Khador player had 4 heavies and tons of infantry, but accidentally spawned a Kovaas not knowing how Zaal worked, and it got the assassination. The frustration in his face was palpable, felt bad for the guy.

>>52621297
My gripe has always been the AP rule and they are specifically addressing that.

>>52620749
I actually hate tough even more now since it's such a rarity that it matters. Either stick with the lol randum or go precise and predictable thing that you can factor. Now it's just a chore for me to roll for something you were guaranteed to kill anyway

>>52617945
MK1 launched in 2003, Mk2 in 2010.

>>52622266
Thanks full house.

>>52621297
>maybe I won't let a black bull fuck my wife
>why the fuck wouldn't I let a black bull fuck my wife?

>>52623761
I was almost worried that the thread had gotten this long and no dipshits had ham-fistedly inserted their dumb fetish into it yet

How the fuck does the trollbloods starter box deal with heavy warNOUNs?

>>52625071
It doesn't.

>>52625071
It doesn't, it's shit.

Does nobody upload the new books anymore?

>>52625340
no one cares anymore

>>52625340
Pretty sure all the recent books have been uploaded.

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Most recent Command books

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bseyjj1o8juzwly/AABUAawp3bnUUg8bI9YcHjy7a?dl=0

>>52625071
It really, honestly doesn't. It is easily the worst starter box of either Warmachine or Hordes.

It's an alright way to start Trolls, but a TERRIBLE match up for the other starter boxes.

>>52625746
>It's an alright way to start Trolls, but a TERRIBLE match up for the other starter boxes.

Yeah, ironically, it's one of the best boxes to start an army with, but it's the worst one for playing the other boxes.

>>52625248
>>52625289
>>52625746
>>52625841

I'm curious. What beasts would you put in instead to have it BOTH ways? A good intro to the faction AND a decent matchup to the other boxes? Rag is required, ofc.

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>>52626678
Mauler, axer, bouncer.

maybe a bomber instead of a mauler.

Those are the only good warbeasts in trolls.

>>52626721
I've tried adding in a Mauler into the box while my friend throws in a widowmaker marksman as Khador
Honestly, that combination is maybe a liiiiittle too strong for battle boxes
>10" charge with 2 18s weapons on a mauler, and 17s weapon on the axer
Even a Khador jack is gonna get demolished

>>52626678
>>52626721

Keeping the box at 0 points and not taking character beasts, you only have a few choices:

Impaler, Axer/Slag, Bouncer/Storm/Pyre

3 Axers/Slag

3 Nights, Pyre/Storm/Bouncer

Mauler/Earthborn, Night, Swamp/Winter

Bomber, Impaler

2 Mauler/Earthborn


Any combination that includes a Mauler would be fine. Were I designing it to fit in with the other boxes, I'd probably take Mauler/Night/Swamp.

>>52626966
Ooh, forgot, you can take Impaler, Impaler, Winter/Swamp, but that may be the only combination actively worse than what's in the actual box.

>>52626994
And Blitzer, 2 Night. And 2 Swamp/Winter, 2 Night.

I'd still go with Mauler, Night, Swamp, though, even if Mauler, Earthborn or 2 Maulers is better.

>>52626994
I mean
>3 Axers/Slag
and
>3 Nights, Pyre/Storm/Bouncer
Sound pretty fucking terrible if we're being honest

>>52627025
Axer/Axer/Slag is probably an upgrade.

3 Nights, Pyre/Storm/Bouncer is hideous, though.

>>52627094
Actually, Axer/Slag/Slag would be pretty playable; with that setup, you can cycle Pulverizer between the two Slags and Rush both of them (one from the Axer, one from Ragnor), and drop 10 PS 15 WM attacks into some jacks.

>>52627286
Yeah but then you got two dead weight models against any Hordes army

>>52627336
Meh, they've still got 5 attacks at PS 15, which isn't terrible into Hordes ARM. Axer/Axer/Slag might be better, and both are much better than the box as it is.

>>52625659
Thanks

>>52625437

I don't see the circle forces book up there

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>>52629534
check
>>52625659

>>52629553
thanks anon

>>52621717
Almost as bad as having your whole army die to poison gas.

>>52626721
All heavies are good in trolls because they're all fury 4 and Mauler buff allows them to one round a heavy.
Axer is there for animus and nothing more.
Bouncer is there for shield guard because you can't take warders in Dhunia theme.

Rest of lights are for Gunnbjorn memes.

So, I've got a question for you guys: How many of you usually build a source of Grievous Wounds and/or other healing prevention in your list pair? What exactly do you bring to fill this niche?

>>52631401
I do it quite often, but not on purpose. A lot of the time Thyra is in my pair, and she always brings Blood of Martyrs. Sometimes I even take him with other casters, he's worth it. I believe he's the only source of grievous wounds in the faction, but that's a secondary concern for me.

>>52631770
I see. I've been thinking about running the Mak2 Doublecats as part of my pair and basically just want to know what my other list has to be able to play into.

>>52631976
Can that list crack Khador ARM? Does it need to? Could you safely pick her against Hark/Vlad1?

>>52632151
Nah I'd need my other list for that. CrazyCatLady cracks armor decently, but not on the scale necessary to face a true brick. Then again, killing Harkevich is an option. So it depends on his list I guess?

I've only seen the CatLady in battle reports and haven't played her myself yet, but she seems like a good pair for my Zaadesh2.

>>52632202
What baffles me is how PP expect one list to be able to take on Hark/Vlad1 without bringing list chicken into the equation.

>>52631401
Never, because Khador only runs theme,

>>52633631
A versatile list should be able to play into both. I think I'd drop Zaadesh into it and that should work. Harkevich is not as bad as Amon and Vlad1 just plain doesn't work against Clouds.

>(Xerxis 1) Tyrant Xerxis [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Tiberion [22]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [18]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

>(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Shaman [8]
- Despoiler [19]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]

So bearing in mind that at present I consider this my pairing and to me they seem good, what I want to know from you strategic masterminds is:

>1) What actually makes a good list?
>2) What makes a good pairing?

It really is as simple as that. I'm at a loss frankly. Do I just take my faction's two most diametrically opposed competitive skews? How much support is too much? What does it take for a support model to be relevant? Is the Willbreaker worth his points? Do I just fuck support off and bring more shit that can kill my opponent? Why support when you can just replace right?

>>52630218
Earthborn is pure shit. It's essentially a 30pt warbeast with less output than the mauler who actually has an animus and better combat abilities to boot.

I'm curious, what faction does warmahordes general primarily play?
http://www.strawpoll.me/12718457

>>52635416
1) A good list fits in your pairing. Some would say that they need to pose or answer a certain question, but that is not 100% correct.
2) A good pairing gets you at least a fighting chance in every matchup. So ask yourself, are there any list pairings that your pairing cannot deal with? Any that force you into a chicken situation?

And what I want to know from you is:
1) If you're playing Mordikaar anyway, why not go into ADR? Xerxis1 is good, but not irreplacable.
2) Why is there no Vorkesh in the first list?

>>52630218
The Earthborn, Blitzer and Dozer really struggle to make it into lists due to how much better Maulers and Bombers are in general. I also wouldn't call Mulg bad, but there really isn't much reason to take him whilr Rok exists.

>>52635416
I missed these questions, so following on from here >>52635875


>Do I just take my faction's two most diametrically opposed competitive skews?
Does that leave you with uncovered matchups? If not, go for it.
>How much support is too much?
Either play with as little as possible (like, just PGBH) and add things you severely miss after a few games. Or add everything you want and remove everything that's not pulling its weight.
>What does it take for a support model to be relevant?
Ideally they'd do work themselves like the Junior, but not every faction has that luxury. Usually you'll ask yourself:
1) Can I play without this support piece (for PGBH the answer will usually be no)?
2) Is it necessary into the matchups this list is supposed to cover (Soulward for example is either amazing or 3 almost dead points)?
3) Does it have something useful to do in most rounds (the Willbreaker for example has such a broad set of abilities that he will do something every round)?
>Is the Willbreaker worth his points?
Depends on the list. I'd say if you're playing non-Tough Infantry (especially Ferox) and have 4p to spare, hell yes. Does your list rely on one crucial roll to get work done (for example Mortality)? Then yes.
>Do I just fuck support off and bring more shit that can kill my opponent?
I'd err on the side of "yes, do that", but it's not universally true.
>Why support when you can just replace right?
Some things are just irreplacable. For example, into Haley3 a Soulward is easily worth 8p, because you will likely get your shit pushed in without him. You just can't get anything for 3p that replaces being able to see through clouds in that matchup. Into Amon the same model might only be worth 0.5p.

>>52636063
>Into Amon the same model might only be worth 0.5p.
Actually Menoth is a lot of the reason I like the Soulward in that list. The Choir doesn't prevent all shooting; only non-magical shooting. Mordikaar and the Shaman are already magical, and can grant magical to the Cannoneer too with the Soulward, that's a lot of RNG14+ boostable shots I can throw into a single heavy. It's also cute being able to give Eyeless Sight to the Shaman, since with his Ghost Shot the only way to hide from him is with Stealth. The list would probably suffer against Amon, but unless you know Amon is coming, I've always felt Skorne suffers against him anyway. Jamming Crusaders with Ferox every turn also kills their activations. I also like that I can sort of convert spare fury on Mordikaar into souls for the Soulward without losing out on models by killing Handlers and Reviving them.

>Does your list rely on one crucial roll to get work done (for example Mortality)? Then yes.
I like the idea of Rhadeim being able to jump on a caster with MAT10+3d6 to hit, PS14+3d6 on an ARM piercing attack, THEN MAT10+3d6 and PS12+4d6. My opponent is forced to camp harder than they'd like to.

The Willbreaker is weird. When Mk3 dropped I lamented the loss of Ancillary Attack and the nerf to Puppet Master, but he can still make his points back with ease.

>>52636657
>Actually Menoth is a lot of the reason I like the Soulward in that list. The Choir doesn't prevent all shooting; only non-magical shooting.
Damn you're right. I've been playing Zaadesh2 so long I forgot guns exist.

I also hardly used Ancillary in Mk2 so to me the Mk3 version of the Willbreaker seemedlike a buff.

>>52636753
Well the amount of people who generalise their rules to the point of lying in this game is kind of stupid honestly. Every Menoth player says something along the lines of "no shooting" when using that particular Hymn. Someone who's taking it on faith will believe that word for word.

>>52636753
Also, I take it you'd advise playing nothing but my pairing in casual games for the sake of learning how to play it better and improve the lists, right? Also I'd probably swap Xerxis1 for Zaadesh2 but he isn't on sale outside the US for like another month.

>>52637009
That's correct. The best list in the game is one you have practice with.

Hello - anyone here would care to halp a newb. I would like to build 2 armies - Haley 2 and Cain 3 without using same jacks more then twice (so no 3 charges and so on). Could someone pro show me how tournament armies for those 2 casters should be build.

>>52637074
Good luck, Caine 3 was built for spamming.

>>52591745

Cheers for the advice all.
How does below look?
3 Posses feels like a lot, but then again I may as well make use of FA:U when played in theme.

Minion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] The Blindwater Congregation

(Rask 1) Rask [+27]
- Blackhide Wrastler [16]
- Bull Snapper [0(5)]
- Swamp Horror [14]
Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4]
Bog Trog Trawler [3]
Croak Hunter [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Thrullg [0(6)]
Totem Hunter [0(6)]
Bog Trog Ambushers (min) [10]
Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Swamp Shamblers [11]
Gatorman Posse (min) [10]
Gatorman Posse (min) [10]
Gatorman Posse (max) [17]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

>>52637717
unfortunately Caine3 wasn't built for winning.

>>52638625
Get rid of a minimum Posse so you have two max. And then shuffle around for a full set of Ambushers. Also, IMO, you aren't running enough beasts or small based infantry to make Chef worth it.

>>52638625
Also, I've never been a huge fan of the Bokor. I personally would drop them for a minimum of the Croak Raiders. And drop the Bellows, to get to 74, or something else to keep them in.

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Ugh, too lazy to assemble Assault Commandos.

They suck anyway, so why bother? Just because they look cool?

...

They do look pretty cool.

Could someone give me a quick rundown on the various warpwolves, satyrs, and griffons, especially as they pertain to Grayle?

>>52639299
http://battlecollege.org/index.php/Circle_Orboros

The Warpwolf Stalker is a must-have.

That said, Grayle does literally nothing to help his warbeasts. If you want to get the most out of them, all their support will come from elsewhere. Everything Grayle does either makes him a more efficient killer or makes warrior models more efficient killers. Both Morraig and Lord of the Feast can really benefit from Storm Rager, but, more realistically, Grayle will probably be keeping that on himself for most of the game, as he's pretty squishy without it.

>>52639817
I thought you couldn't always trust what battle college says. In any case, thank you. I'm thinking of picking up Grayle and Morvahna after my battle box, because apparently they are partners in the lore.

>>52639989
I'd say you should certainly get secondary opinions on some of the stuff on Battle College, especially if you're looking at the stats and the commentary doesn't seem to add up with them. A lot of the advice is good though.

Grayle is kind of a long-suffering true believer among Circle Orboros. He was a rank and file dude who revered druids before actually becoming one, but realized they're mostly petty shitheads after he actually got powers and was initiated into their sekret clubhouse. I don't really recall him being Morvhana's partner specifically, but does generally work under a higher ranking druid.

You can get all the Command Books in this thread, by the way, if you want to read a ton of fluff on these guys.

>>52640136
Thank you again.

Theres a spell draft Saturday at my LGS and I am kinda torn since I play Menoth and I only really have High Reclaimer, Malekus and Durst. I really like High Reclaimer, but I don't think that a spell draft is the best format for him. Who is a good caster to run for that?

>>52641162
Severius1 maybe? With BoV of course.

>>52641162
HR would be fun with a billion dudes to fuel your spells.

>>52636657
>I like the idea of Rhadeim being able to jump on a caster with MAT10+3d6 to hit, PS14+3d6 on an ARM piercing attack, THEN MAT10+3d6 and PS12+4d6. My opponent is forced to camp harder than they'd like to.

Do keep in mind that you dont get the mount attack if you jump and use the AP attack. If you charge you get both since the mount attack becomes an impact attack instead of an initial.

>>52625248
>>52625289
>>52625746
WELP.

I feel better about my win rate so far then. I went from playing khador to starting to play trolls and i figured i was just spoiled and was missing something obvious.

>>52642197
Naniiiiiiii

>>52642340
>I went from playing khador
You WERE spoiled. Welcome to the world of Hordes. Hope you like losing.

>>52643429

I think the only Hordes factions that aren't doing so hot are Trolls and Minions.

Legion's been doing pretty good these days, especially after Oracles came out, Skorne is looking much better post errata, and Circle still has plenty of bullshit.

>>52643429
>>52643551
yeah from what I can tell Skorne is just khador but better

>>52643429
I am about 50/50 so far playing the trollbloods battlebox, I cannot do shit aginst heavy warjacks and beasts, but having three guys with reach is pretty good for killing casters, and the ridiculous hammer the warlock has is neat (even if he cant fucking use it)

>>52643429
>tfw Circle has placed top 3 in every single mk3 tournament

Nice meme, senpai.

>>52643623
>Skorne is just khador but better
It's not much like Khador anymore, aside from mostly playing honest attrition.

>>52635687
Uh, no.
Past the first Mauler for animus Earthborn is just strictly better buy. It's easy to set up it having an arm 22 or spd 7 for free and immunities wtin animus stop a lot of things that otherwise harm Mauler.

>Cheaped out with the Tiberion kit
>Man these parts will never stick on
>Consider gluing them on and buying another titan kit
You know what I just don't fucking care anymore I'm going to buy the resculpt.

>>52646528
>free and immunities
This honestly never comes up. The Earthborn would be a much better deal if he were 13 points. Since he lost Adaptation and, as you said, you pretty much only bring him as a compliment-heavy for the Mauler, he needs to have a lower price tag.

>>52650515
>models are better when they are cheaper
No shit.

>never comes up
Yeah nobody ever uses electical damage.

>>52650788
>No shit.
Glad we're in agreement.

> Yeah nobody ever uses electical damage.
In the grand-spectrum of the game, immunities are a very corner-case benefit. Is the Earthborn bad, per-se? Not really. Does it need help? Yes.

What a shame it will probably be years before PP get around to helping Trolls in any meaningful way (assuming they EVER do help, of course. Trolls have been the most average/boring faction since 1st edition).

Anybody know a good proxy for Legion Swordsmen? The current ones are to expensive for what they are.

>>52652714
Man what's up with Legion prices? Why are your cavalry like +40% of what other faction cavalry costs?

>>52652803
No idea, I'm also planning on using GWs wild riders as Raptors because they're like a third of the price.

>>52652887
Hah, someone at my LGS does exactly that.

>>52642197
Thats not right

>>52652803

They're old, all metal, and competitive.

I held off on them for years until lucked into a full unit for $50.

>>52655175
I got mine in a lot of stuff a guy had from Mk2. Felt pretty good to field them. Haven't gotten around to Anyssa yet.

Btw good people of WarmaHordes General: I apologize for the lack of uploaded Khador Command Book. I have had some unfortunate monetary circumstances come up and haven't had the money to buy it and upload it yet. I will endeavor to do so when I can.
>>52587794
Why no Command Book links OP? I've made several thread headers that had them. They should be in the archives.

>>52655175
>>52655671
I don't get why they charge so much for infantry while most jacks and beasts are only around $25-30.

>>52655768
Don't worry, take your time.

And if you want your shit in the OP, start the new threads yourself.

>>52655768
I should hope people aren't too upset to wait to get it for free so no rush!

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What matches have you played recently?
Played a match tonight against a Cryx player, returned vet from all the way back in mk.1
Deneghra1's feat is scary, even with Ragnor's feat up

>>52656923
Not bookanon, but wow go fuck yourself with the shitty attitude. This current general started with a lazy and incomplete copy/paste, and was DOA judging by the lack of activity. Hope the next general starts off better.

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>>52660685
It won't.

The game is dead as mki on /tg/

>>52661038
Nah, just a little slow patch. Not too many people interested in Grymkin, when SR 2017, Battle Engines and Banes hit the CID it'll be hopping in here again.

>>52662149
SR17 beta starts 7 days from now right? Yeah I can't wait for that. Hopefully we can get rid of the random game length. The rest of the changes seem really good.

>>52662149
>Not too many people interested in Grymkin

I really wanted giants or infernals as the new Hordes faction. I don't know how they'd make it work, but the concept of Grymkin just bores me. Maybe I just need to play some games against them.

>>52662381
They're really interesting from a gameplay perspective, but the designs are just meh.

CID feels like a mistake to me. You know early access games on Steam? How when they finally come out of development, no one cares because it's nothing new anymore?

>>52662542
Except at the end of cid you get new models and playtest =/= actual release rules. Lots of stuff can and will change

>>52662542
It's not early access though. It's a beta test. And those have been used to great success in video games.

>>52662381
Infernals should've been the Grymkin style thing. They are contractual devils so having an army that punishes you for doing things that you shouldn't would've been a great concept.

>>52662542
I would've liked CID if it wasn't for the baggage that PP is carrying now. All the shit talking they did about how great the balance was going to be, and how they spent years on this working on it in secret. Now it feels like "we don't know what we are doing, please do it for us"

>>52662696
Open betas tend to end with people not caring about a game because they've already played it.

>>52662737
Yeah that's why nobody plays games like Overwatch.

>>52662802
Overwatch was mostly closed beta. It killed a lot of hype for the game.

Also it's blizzard. Blizzard could literally post 10 min clips of plates being smashed and people would preorder whatever it is associated with

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>>52662852
>Overwatch was mostly closed beta. It killed a lot of hype for the game.

>>52662852
>It killed a lot of hype for the game.
Source please. Or any kind of point alternatively. Please provide ANYTHING backing up your point.

>>52662906
Do you not remember when it was jokingly called Onlywatch? Anyone?

>>52662929
You mean because people couldn't play it? Like they could in an open beta? Which happened later and didn't kill the (frankly unjustified) hype?

>>52663102
but I was talking about the closed beta. Why would you think I was talking about the open beta when I said the closed beta?

>>52663260
Because a closed beta is a bad analogy for CID. CID is an open beta. Everyone can take aprt in it. All tehy have to do is sign up.

>>52663536
I'm not the one who brought overwatch up though, which I then said that Overwatch was mostly closed beta, not open. Seriously, what's with /tg/ lately being unable to follow simple conversations via reply chains?

>>52663563
Correct. I am the one. I brought it up because it is an example of a game that had an open beta but was highly successful regardless. And I am still waiting for any sort of point to the contrary.

It seems I can follow this conversation rather easily, which is admittedly not much of an achievement as I took part in it.

>>52663638
then why are you talking about open beta when OW was mostly closed beta and the closed beta is what reduced the buzz on the game? Why the fuck did you even bring OW up?

The fact that you are in the conversation makes it even worse since you can't seem to follow it. WTF

>>52663669
Because, and please read this nice and slowly:
1) It also ahd an open beta
2) It is highly successful

And now, whithout further ado, please do tell me one reason wy CID is bad for WMH or its sales. One will suffice.

Alternatively fuck off. Because you have no point. You're just bickering.

>>52662542
The problem here is that PP isn't selling the experience or the rules, which is part of why beta access can potentially kill your interest in the game. PP just sells models, the point of CID is to make sure the part you actually will spend money on won't give people buyer's remorse.

Hmm... I just realized that Themes are pretty terrible for ADR.

I tried to come up with a cool thing for Kozlov/Strakhov1 but running Kozlov in Legion of Steel takes away a lot of options.

>>52662542
For people who participate it is. It's literally another job that you don't get payed for.]

For game it's better than not having it, at least it will prevent blatantly broken things like old Una2 from appearing.

>>52650515
>13 pt fury 4 beast
Ha ha, nope.

>>52665065
Oh, it's not that bad. A job has quotas. With CID, you can just play one game and report it.

Any ideas for alternative models to customize into Cephalyx monstrosities? I have all the extra bits from the all in one box and would like to put them to good use, I don't play in tournaments anymore so if they aren't PP models that'd be fine I'd just like some cheap bodies to convert! So far I'm looking at reaper bones but they all seem a bit too thin.

>>52665065
FWIW, I think CID is great for the game. It gives the screeching autists an outlet, and generally those changes fix the worst of the egregious shit PP designs on their own

>>52665093
Why not? He hasn't got a ranged attack, only two p+s 15 initial melee attacks, communion bonuses are entirely dependent on terrain and his animus is not unique to him.

I think 13 would suit him well. I know i would consider him without necessarily taking a mauler.

>>52665093
Are you that eager to suck PP's cock that you can't see how fucking shitty the earthborn is? Especially considering how much weaker than it is than the goddamn Kodiak?

Animus is far useable and important on the bouncer since steady shieldguard is a thing.

it costs the same as the mauler who natively has more attacks, damage, and an animus which is considered must take in the faction.

Warbeast revamp is fucking shit.

>>52663921
Pretty much this. I've seen a lot of people write that they won't buy new models because they're not sure if they get nerfed or not. Now you can see much further ahead where your dudes are going

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Rate the Unas I had commissioned.

>>52670781
How much did you pay?

>>52670836
Quoted at $30 ea. I've been completely satisfied with his work, even though I believe I'm his first Privateer Press commission.

magnus2 in or out of kingmaker theme?
def15 Gallant seems like a meme
but I think I value feign death more

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Anyone able and willing to help me with understanding ADR, Vanguard and Specialists?
(http://files.privateerpress.com/op/2016/MastersRules2016.pdf, page 2)

I'm a little confused about this:
>Free models granted by a Theme Force bonus cannot be substituted for specialist models.

So, what happens if I take something out of my list, causing the free model to become a paid model. Can I take it out now? Or am I forced to pay for it, even if it isn't free anymore?

Linking into my next question:
>Specialist lists are completely optional but cannot exceed 40 points per list.
>These models are not used unless a player decides to substitute them for models/units in the corresponding base army list in accordance with the specialist rules.
>Specialists are listed separately for each army list and follow all field allowance rules that apply to regular models/units as if they were part of that army list.
> Specialist substitutions
cannot result in an illegal army list.

... but can I substitute more than I want to away from my 75?

For example, I have a 75 point list with an 11 point jack and my Vanguard has a 10 point jack in it. If I now take out the 11 point jack and replace it with the 10 point one, I would have my real list with 74 points, but my remaining Vanguard would be 41. So it's now allowed? I think?

Should I ask this on the forums?

Picture is all the models I own

So I am trying to figure out what jacks I should expand into/ stuff I need to get. I am considering the new battlebox, although I am not exactly sure if that is a great move, especially since I do not really want Malkeus.

Casters I plan on having are:
Kreoss 1-3
Reznik 1-2
Sevirus 1-2
Durst
Tristan 2
Reclaimer 1-2
Harbinger

I know for sure I need Fires of salvation, but what is a good next purchase?

>>52671090
You own nothing?

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>>52671090
Forgot the damn picture, damn it all

>>52671021
Back in mk2 you were not able to break the tier bonuses. I'm not sure if it applies now.
Basically if you had tier2 bonus you could not bring it down to tier 1. I would assume the same applies? I'm a little iffy on this one.

There's somewhere in the rules that specify what the minimum amount of points are. Another illegal list would be something along the lines of two models with animosity with each other,

>>52591745
>>52638625

Word of advice: The Gator theme is still shit, don't run it with Rask. Posse still doesn't do enough work for its points, and still die trivially, even with one of the best casters in the game delivering them.

What you want with Rask is the other lesser warlocks.

Minion Army - 75 / 75 points

(Rask 1) Rask [+27]
- Blackhide Wrastler [16]
- Ironback Spitter [15]
Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4]
Dahlia Hallyr [17]
Rorsh [15]
- Battle Boar [7]
Wrong Eye [17]
Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Swamp Shamblers [11]

This is a solid Rask list. It has insane threat ranges (16 nonlinear with Rorsh and brine in melee, If you swap out the spitter for a horror, 17), obliterates ARM skew, and generally pushes people's shit in. Its a hard list to learn and use well, but it can take most comers.

If you have to take infantry, I'd take a unit of brigands, which is 2 points more expensive than Posse, and comes with native pathfinder and pow 12-14 guns.

Ambushers are shit and will never do anything. Its a waste of 10 points. The Bokor and shamblers are amazing, don't listen to this guy, >>52639192 he doesn't know what hes talking about. 9 extra transfers are a godsend, because you'll be going down to 0 most turns. If they don't have grevious wounds, you can safely put Rask down their throat and they can't kill you. That, and the stationary spell the Bokor has will win you games, as well as being a last ditch unit to fury up, and the Bokor can murder a lot of things with bought attacks.

Basically, Rask is better out of tier than in tier. But if you want to play tier, get rid of the trawler, croak hunter, and ambushers. Add more posse or wrong eye and snapjaw.

Man everytime I reread Pyrrhus entry I just keep thinking he is basically /fit/ in menoth form

>>52671635
>DO YOU EVEN PRAY, HERETIC

>>52588932
>>52662149
Does this mean we will finally get some new battle engines for each faction?

>>52671635
>>52671675
>skipping chant day

I keep reading that blaize is a terrible caster, anything to be done to help her out then or is it just something that needs theme to do it?

>>52671841
Khador has a MoW battle engine on the way with the theme book

anyone have a picture of the khador forge seer card? I wanna print one out and make a card for it, but I cant find the card on the website

>>52670988
>>52670781
Yeah, for $30 that's not a bad job. Looks a little dusty/lumpy, though.

I primed my Praetorian Swordsman and UA. These guys aren't that daunting to paint really. There's no nooks or crannies on them, it's just up front armour. Karax were a cunt.

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Are Scrap Thralls and Mechanithralls together in melee a good combination? From what I've seen, it seems like your scrap thralls are going to kill more of your own mechanithralls than the enemy.

>>52671005
magnus2 out of theme for sure. Damiano plays trenchers better, and Magnus gets def15 gallant and calamity idrians. Feign Death was the meme back before PP nerfed the magnus trick.

What are going to be the theme books we know for sure are going to happen?

From what I know for sure it is
>Cygnar: Stormknights/stormsmiths
>Protectorate: Exemplar
>Circle: Blackclads and Tharn
> Khador: Man of Wars

Anyone have any others to add to the list/ know when the books are coming?

>>52673280
My fucking god if Skorne don't get a mix of Praetorian, Cataphract, and Titan, I will be PISSED.

>>52673280
Trollbloods is Northkin IIRC

>>52673333
I'm 99% sure Bushwackers/Sluggers/Scattergunners/Shooting is getting a theme first then Northkin come second.

>>52673664
we've seen some teasers for northkin stuff, so that's prob first.

>>52673688
Really? Where can I find these spoilers?

>>52673717
NQ71. it's literally just a sketch of a northkin looking champion dude with a sword and grenades and some cryx runes talking about ice or some shit.

>>52673280
There are several obvious merc ones (Llael, pirates, dwarves, cephalyx, kingmaker), and of course farrow and gators

>>52673280
Ret will probably get a Mage Hunter list, a Dawnguard list, another warjaaaack list, an Ellowuyr or Houseguard list, and a Nyss list.

New Insider on PP'S Facebook page.

-They announced the inauguration of the Cardless model kits moving forward from today. And by July, ALL cards will be available.
-Dragoons getting moved to 2 cards, for each version of the model, so each card will be self contained.
-And all cards will now have base sizes listed on them.

>>52673770
>>52673717

They've also already flat out stated that Northkin theme force will be on the CID after the Cygnar Trencher theme.

Hey guys, Im looking to learn how to play Hordes and was wondering what your opinions is of the MK3 two player box. Is there potential to grow an army from the box that can function at an LGS open play event? Is it good out of the box? Or should I buy the Warmachine 2 player box, how would you describe the playstyle of Warmachine vs Hordes? pls help

>>52675079
Warmachine is giant robots, Hordes is giant monsters. Basically, pick what you think looks the best.


Both sides use their resource to cast spells, boost attacks, and either reduce their damage or transfer it to a warbeast.
The main difference is resource allocation.

Warcasters start with X amount of Focus. They then distribute that to their Warmachines (they start with one, max of 3) to boost their power for the turn. At the beginning of the next turn, they automatically refill.

Warbeasts start with 0, and build up to 3-4 to boost their power. Their warlock (who starts with X amount) spends theirs, and then takes resources off the warbeasts to let them spend more and refill the warlock's pool. They do not get automatic points back the same way (only 1 for every dead beast, and they can trade 1HP for 1 Fury)

>>52673280
Bane theme is entering CID this month.

>>52675332
How playable are the starter boxes? If i went to an LGS event, would I get my ass kicked?

>>52676063
Depends on the faction usually, but they're only 0 points, so it's going to be a very small game.
Note, the Trollblood box is a good way to start the faction, but it is complete ass in an actual match.

>>52672959

mech thralls r solid flak/chafe delivery systems for Brute Thrall missiles especially in Infernal Machines where you get free points 4 taking multiple min units and can ambush w/ a unit in addition

brute thralls r solid shield guard models in addition w/ a caster like Shade2 who can sacrifice the mech thralls to bring multiples back in a turn

Is Kozlov getting a character jack at all? They had a cycle going and then sort of dropped it and randomly gave Aiakos a jack

>>52678682
Releases are no longer parallel. So your guess is as good as mine.

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Can anyone tell an inexperienced Ret player how similar Moros is to a Griffon?
I love the cruise missile feeling the Griffon has but I'm not sure if Moros's job is also to take the first charge on a priority target to soften it up, or if he's strictly Paralysis assassination combos.

Sooo my fellow 4 chaners - I wanted to get into warmahordes liked 2 factions cygnar and skorne - tell me why i should not play this game.

Some say its unbalanced as fuck - some say its dice rolling spam with no tactics whatsoever - what is the trouth can a better player win or its all down to luck with dice rolling ?

>>52681587
You likely talked to one of our resident trolls. We have a few, pay them no heed.

>Some say its unbalanced as fuck
That is absolutely not true. It's pretty well balanced. However, some models are just not performing. PP are curently in the process of fixing them via public playtest cycles, but that will take time. If you do a little research to avoid those, you'll be fine.

>some say its dice rolling spam with no tactics whatsoever
That could not be more wrong.

>what is the trouth can a better player win or its all down to luck with dice rolling ?
Dice are a factor. Tactics are en infinitely more important one.

>Cygnar or Skorne
These are my two factions. I'd say Skorne is more fun. They have nigh-perfect internal balance (aside from a few things all of their stuff is good and none of their stuff is too good). You can play them pretty straight-forward or go for game plans with a bit mor depth. They don't have any high-end finesse casters, so their skill ceiling is slightly lower than some others (like for example Cygnar).

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I've done two guys and I'm already sick of painting.

>>52681820
Painting praetoreans is hell. I've only got 17 more to go. But 5 of those are on cats, so it will feel more like 22.

>>52681825
I have Ferox still left to paint too

>>52681820
Yeah, I feel like PP decides to throw on a billion little details onto model and it makes them a pain in the ass to paint

>>52681837
My first unit is almost done and I cannot wait to put them onto the table.

>>52681903
It's all the trimming on the armour that pisses me off. It they were well moulded it wouldn't be such a big problem. And if P3 paints weren't so shit. Those Swordsmen are actually a pretty early batch I think. They're metal and the piece that slots into the base says 2006.

>>52681917
>It's all the trimming on the armour that pisses me off. It they were well moulded it wouldn't be such a big problem.
That's why I always try to get the metal models. After 20 plastic Preatoreans (aeiou, some extra vowels for you to correct the spelling with) I am sick of restic.

>>52681927
The plastic Karax I painted up weren't too bad, infact I'd say they were quite good. I only bought metal Swordsmen because they were cheaper. The plastic Keltarii/Swordsmen kit is £40, but buying 6+2+2 dudes separately worked out at £30. I can't see myself ever wanting to use Keltarii so whatever.

>>52681950
Yeah it's also not like you'd magnetize small-based infantry. That way lies insanity. I've heard of some people using Keltarii but I honestly don't see why.

>>52681960
It's interesting to note that with the +1SPD buff, their threat range on the charge is now 12", which is the same range as what most good ranged infantry has on their guns. So if you shoot a Keltarii and miss, he's going to swing on you next turn.

>>52681989
>So if you shoot a Keltarii and miss, he's going to swing on you next turn.
That's my problem with them though: Ferox can do that better.

>>52682015
At a much higher pricepoint though.

And since you speak of Ferox, perhaps you can answer something I've been wondering about. Can Ferox use jump after being Revived by Mordikaar? They can't jump if something prevents them charging, but the reason they can't charge is because they just don't have an action, nothing is outright preventing them from charginig. I mean it's not like they need to spend their action to jump.

>>52682107
I'm not 100% sure but I think you can't jump in that case. Forfeiting action prevents charges which in turn prevents jumps.

>>52679801
He can do both, really.

I'd say he sees more use for his gun than his melee capability, but he can soften up targets with his blades WHILE applying Paralysis.

Personally I don't like him, as I feel like he's only really useful against Hordes.

>>52682140
The jump ability states that it's EFFECTS that prevent charging that prevent jump. So for example the spell Flesh Hooks states that if it damages a model, that model can't charge for a round among other things. I feel as if forfeiting your combat action doesn't quality as an effect preventing charging, you just happen to not be able to charge by some other means.

>>52681661
If tactics are such an imprtant factor then why most tournament coverages show pros taking the best available models, forming a gunline or running them into the enemy and proceeding to roll dice? In mk2 at least people tried to pull unconventional shit off but there is just no point in it anymore.

>>52682322
Because you are talking out of your ass and have no idea of the actual game? Please go back to your Guildball thread or to whatever game you jumped to. We will both be happier for it.

>>52682253
The word "effect" is actually not defined. So I wouldn't base my argument on that. I can't find a thread onthe rules forum right now, but I only did a brief search.

>>52682793
http://privateerpressforums.com/archive/index.php/t-259745.html

All I can find is this. No infernal came into the thread, nothing was ever resolved. The two sides of the argument are:

>You cannot charge, therefore you cannot jump
>No effect is preventing you from charging, therefore you can jump

Honestly the latter makes more sense to me because of the use of the word "effect" and the existence of spells and abilities that explicitly state that the affected model cannot charge.

>Privateer Press
>no more Pressgangers
>still no Privateer theme ist

Has any company ever sold out this bad?

>>52682888
There is indeed no conclusion. I'll ask on the forums sometime soon.

>>52587794
Are Infernals statted anywhere for IKRPG?

>>52683820
There's a bunch of infernal stuff in the old 3rd edition D&D suppliment Monsternomicons. The stats lines are different though, so you'd have to transpose

>>52682322
Well why aren't people like you winning huge cons then?

>>52684323
Nobody wants to buy 12 Scarsfel Griffins because everyone expects them to get nerfed. It's funny because back in February when PP nerfed Una2, they said that it was their MONTLY update. Now over 2 months later we've had absolutely nothing from them. It's like they're using the existence of CID as an excuse to not do their jobs, or they just don't follow through on all of their plans.

>Announce 6-monthly big rules updates
>Do it once, never again

>Announce a monthly hotfix rules update
>Do it once, never again

I can only imagine CID will go the same way sooner or later. It's like a company full of people who just don't care.

>>52684374
>no answer to posed question
>uhh uhh griffons?

Wew, at least try to stay on one track.

>>52673280
Cygnar gets trenchers. Storm division is already their stormdude theme.

So, there's still no Khador comand book in sight?

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>>52684374
http://privateerpress.com/february-dynamic-update

There's the first dynamic update, these were not announced to be a monthly occurrence.