Shadow War Armageddon General /swag/

Going to try and pick this up tomorrow morning. My lot have been playing HoR KT for a while now so we're primed to give this a shot.

Mini Wargaming has been posting a few battle reports and it looks pretty good. Almost insane how different it is from 40k, since merely being hit is a big deal.

Anyone got a pic of the authors page? I wanna know who wrote it.

Midnight launch in 1 hour here.

>>52585981
There a GW opening at midnight, or your FLGS?

>>52586037
FLGS. My local GW isn't doing a midnight, they only got 5 copies. Oddly my FLGS got 20, and they all sold out on pre-order. I don't normally do midnights, but there was so much demand and I don't want my copy to be "accidentally" sold to a regular who forgot to pre-order.

Anyone got a good scan or pic of the rescue mission?

>>52585144
Exactly. They're there as overwatch/ ambush support as well, but mostly Marker lights.

>>52585391
I disagree. I had two recruits with just markers, but they're even more useless that way. With carbines, in the first mission, theyre able to be effective. The markerlights are there for opportunities, and have been added as extra points. I'd MUCH rather have two dudes with carbines than one extra rail shot. It makes them a lot more flexible, especially if the rifles fail their ammo.

Hopefully after the first game everyone will have markers.

>>52586399
Having a gun is better than none because they can be used for supporting fire in opponent turn if somebody else got charged.

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Is there a difference between pathfinders and pathfinder cadets apart from the points?

>>52586648
Recruit can't help with pinning test.

>>52586648
>>52586655

they also cant gain skills or advancements until they have completed the 3 matches to be promoted

>>52586665
Yeah but it doesn't matter for starting list because you won't be upgrading any of them for the first 2-3 mission anyway.

>>52586665
well it matters a tiny bit, people who are out of action get a decent chance of getting on advancement, can really help you out early on especially if you get +1 wound or +1 toughness

>>52586738
that, or all of your troops go down and you cant upgrade anyone.

>>52586749
if all of your troops go down and you only have recruits left the team is instantly disbanded, new recruits cannot be converted to leader and you cant recruit without a leader

>>52586478
Exactly. As far as I'm aware, markers can't be used for supporting fire (not that they would be useful)

>>52586655
This doesn't matter too much anyways. Bonding ritual let's anyone in 12" of the leader recover from pinning as if they had someone there

>>52586770
no, that is if they all die or are captured

fighters who go down have a good chance of recovering, they just cant get the one allted advancement you get after each battle.
they might get an advancement on the injury table though. but it's a wasted advancement non the less.

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Obvious and predictable Kasrkin list:

Veteran Sergeant [190]
+Carapace Armour
+Bolt Pistol
+Chainsword

Special Weapons Officer [170]
+Carapace Armour
+Plasma Gun

Special Weapons Officer [170]
+Carapace Armour
+Plasma Gun

Veteran Guardsman [125]
+Carapace Armour
+Shotgun
+Red Dot Laser Sight

Veteran Guardsman [115]
+Carapace Armour
+Lasgun
+Hotshot Laser Powerpack

Veteran Guardsman [115]
+Carapace Armour
+Lasgun
+Hotshot Laser Powerpack

Veteran Guardsman [115]
+Carapace Armour
+Lasgun
+Hotshot Laser Powerpack

Total 1000 pts

>>52586655
for this reason i think i'm gonna need a boy to babysit/bully the yoofs.

Ok, so I've read through the rules, and I gotta say that when I compare them to the old Necromunda rules the changes they've made looks good. Really look forward to playing this.

>>52586833

Yeah. Considering how common pinning is and how much it can fuck up a scenario I think people are underestimating how much of a pain that is for the factions that are not space marines.

>>52586935
Yeah, I agree. Miniwargaming has a video on the differences as well if you want another opinion

>>52586982
Nid had the best pinning resistance,

Harlequin are 2nd best.

Pinning is the key to win vs horde army for elite faction with low model count.

>>52587035

Oh, I meant the whole 'Raw Recruits don't count for recovering from pinning' part. What with marines being able to recover regardless of allies.

>>52587035
How are Harlequins worse than Tyranids for pinning? They both have immune to pinning, besides high impact.

>>52587097
Welp that's probably the thing that make SM scout team unique, otherwise they would be very similar to AM team.

>>52587172
Nid can recover early by themself.

Harlequin can't.

Getting pinned would be Harlequin worst nightmare. So getting the skill in the Ferocity would be nice (also +2 on charge and True Grit)

Which seem more fun to play, Scouts or Grey Knights?

I play Exorcists in 40k and wasn't sure what to pick, since they're both Scout-heavy and grey knight successors.

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Hi guys, spent some time going through the threads, and have created I believe the most complete rules set so far, it is built primarily or the major work put in by the creator of the google doc, and the mega, I have not got my book yet so credit goes to all those various anons I havent already named for the pics

https://mega.nz/#F!mUtQAAxS!1fjZcUJ94veAvCRBREeifw

The file I have attached to the post is a contents page with all pages clarified as far as quality goes. It also highlight the various pages that are still missing.

>>52587273
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xvgryrNiMFoLYiaX8o6Y-Q0q1GLRvwWnvbrSL7omZXo/edit

>>52587270
Why not both? This game seem to be the most fun when you get to play all the team.

>>52586982
Yeah, especially since a lot of us aren't I4, so gaining ATSKNF isn't as huge. Skitarii need to pick up an Enhanced Data-tether sharpish, I think, since it gives you a 6" ATSKNF bubble in addition to the one your Leader puts out. I'm making sure that my magnetised squad has the ability to take an Omnispex, two Tethers and three Arquebi at once.

>>52587296
Which I took, deleted duplicate pages, added 4 missions from the mega to and scoured for additional pages including the bols contents page, Ending up with the mega link.

I also included the split files with appropriate page numbers. (if not file names)

I see no reason why you have just linked back the document I credited for most of the file I linked.

If you feel I have not done anything then all I can say is now people have a choice between google docs and Mega.

>>52587200
Ah. I see. Thanks for the clarification.

>>52587335

It's going to be horrific for orks/tau if they run too heavy on Yooths/cadets. I2 does not make them happy.

>>52587324
I suppose it wouldn't be very expensive anyways. Perhaps I will.

>>52587421
Gunline army will want to shot first or hide until they can shot first.

Necron are the most vulnerable to pinning, but at the same time they have the Deathmark which can cause opponent to go paraoia on overwatch in fear of them show up and take a pot shot at the leader, they would still rely on lucky die roll though.

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>sometimes roll 1d6
>sometimes roll 2d6 or more
>but not too many dice! Some might be 1s! or 6s! or double 6s!
>sometimes you compare against a stat
>sometimes you compare against a chart
>sometimes you compare against a "score"
>sometimes you want to roll OVER a characteristic
>but not too high!
>sometimes you want to roll UNDER the characteristic
>but not too low!
>sometimes you want to reroll
>sometimes the bonus is to your characteristic
>sometimes the bonus or penalty is to the chart number after comparing characteristic
>sometimes the bonus is to the dice result rolled

>some actions are called "Check"
>some actions are called "Test"
>some actions are called "Roll"
>some actions are called "Throw"
>some actions are called "Save"

It's like we never evolved past the 80s

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>>52587523
>It's like we never evolved past the 80s

>Did.

>>52587523
>It's like we never evolved past the 80s

Fitting for a system ripped from the 90s

are there rules for allies? say I wanted to make a squad of guardsmen with maybe a single space marine to represent tyrant list from badab books.

>>52587630
no allies, you have a gang and you have the rules for that gang

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>>52587630
Just ask your opponent if he would allow you to include the Space Marine, if he disagrees just roll for it :^)

>>52586988
I'll check that out. Thanks.

>>52586988
You mean this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uNOVICrOPo

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Have the Guard specialists been leaked yet?

>>52587751
ya,
Commissar
Ogryn
Techpriest
Scion

>>52587762
Oh, that's kind of lame.

>>52587421
Not neccearily for us tau. Shas'ui has the bonding knife ritual, which allows anyone within 12" to recover from pinning as if they were within 2" of a friend. So this effectively helps against break tests too because you only need to be within 3" for supporting fire, and break tests affect models within 2".

So you roll guys in pairs or trios, 2.5 inches away from one another and keep all the cadets in the 12" bubble.

>>52587786
You are still I2, though, so you'll only take 1/3 of the pressure off with that bubble. Hiding is good for you, though. My Skittles hate that, since they can't use their superior range, but if I can cause a Turn 1 casualty then they have to move, and if not I get free run of the board. Against GSC I will probably take a beating, but whatever return fire I get will decimate them with BS5 against T3 6++.

I don't think Orks will have many problems. Even rolling off walkways and getting stuck won't hurt much when my Skitarii can pin 5 or 6 Orks and maybe down two, they have another 15.

What I find strange is that there's no way to give medical attention to a downed comrade. I was expecting stuff like medkits that let you spend your shoot action to boost/cut the downed guy's rolls to heal, so you either double your dude's rez chances and eliminate the death thing, or shove a needle of poison into the enemy and do the opposite. Was a bit odd when I was holding the line against Orks and my Skitarii couldn't do anything about the guy who got shot. Would be more thematic to drag the casualties away from the barricades to the medic.

Would also make CSM cultists worth something, since they were kind of worthless despite spending a lot of time around their wounded masters because I had better things to shoot.

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Chaos space marines cant make more marines with recruits.

Does this mean I have to save up and buy each new non-cultist member of the team?

Also if my flamer equipped gunner buys a new gun, can he hand his flamer over to the cultist?

>>52588162

Yeah, I'd have really have liked to have seen medkits or something. Rerolls on the recovery table or -1 or something.

>>52588162
>enslaved to an immortally 12 year old tool of war
>he goes down
>now he asks you to support a ton of his weight and help him back up.

>>52588183
yes

yes

yes

>>52588216
Yeah, maybe something to give the Omnispex/Markerlight chumps to do while they're standing around or if the guy they're spotting for goes down.

>>52588220

Also provides funny mental images, yeah. But some aren't enslaved, and they'll probably jump at the chance to win favour from an Astartes.

>>52588162
Check the skill.

Shotting down guy mean go out of action, down in melee mean go OOA instantly, charge a down guy mean OOA, no need to inject him with poison, just hit him with your weapon.

Cultist are not useless. Did you know that other elite team need a cheap body so badly but they can't? having a cheap body are useful for many thing, but mostly to keep enemy out of hiding and can be shot at.

>>52588183
Cultist can't be armed with a flamer, so no.

>>52588250
What's the difference between a trooper and cultist? Just the name? There isn't anything about it in the PDF.

>>52587523
Yeah, it's a horrible system, but it mercifully is limited unlike mainstream 40k where it just gotta bog down on more units with more snowflake rule resolutions.

>>52587630
Why not just use the chaos rules?

There's nothing really chaos-exclusive about it, and the cultists have guardsman stats.

>>52588323
They can help with pinning and can be advance, which mean now everytime you have them down in combat they can come back better and stronger...or they're gone for good.

>>52588323
New Recruit cultists who upgrade to Trooper cultists don't count against your limit of half your army being New Recruits.
That means for each cultist who lives for three battles, you are allowed to buy another New Recruit cultist.

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>>52588343
>refluffing Chaos Space Marine Kill Team as Deathwatch Kill Team
>refluffing Chaos Marks as Codex Astartes Chapter Tactics
>refluffing cultists as attendant serfs

>>52588292
Ah, missed that rule. Just healing, then. Cultists were largely useless in the games I played because I can easily gun down a couple and start him bottle testing. On the downside, he now has a very angry cultist who wants to beat my Veteran's face in. Serith is going to have to spend a while shooting him every game.

>>52586829
Looks good! Good amount of plasma and guys to stand in the way.

>>52587491
They are vulnerable to pinning but they will still get up at the end of their turn, you're unlikely to pin all of them, and they will still outshoot my guard team :<

>>52587523
.... These rules are great and not hard to follow at all?

>>52588162
I expected a medic for guard. I even had a medic model ready...

>>52588183
You can't save points. Everything not spent in rearm/recruit is lost.

>>52588502
Bottle test was never a bad for CSM team, (undivied leader, always), having bottle test every turn mean the team can do a tactical retreat and deny the winning team of the extra reward from objective if they still didn't complete that.


>>52588563

getting pin mean losing 1 turn, how is that NOT a bad thing, that is terrible. Necron are elite army with few model count at start. Lose one turn could mean they're closer to getting charge, which they will not want.

>>52588495
>attendant serfs
inquisitorial acolytes, more like

Inferno bolts also work well as specialist ammunition. The only hanging point is the lack of ATSKNF/the crit buff against aliens in CC.

>>52588602
So without spending promethium every game I'm stuck buying slaves and equipment.

>>52588710
Get the Guerilla skill that give +50 pts.

>>52586648
Cadets can't have pistols, which are a straight upgrade in vac for tau (in the unlikely event that they actually win the roll)

>>52588710
Yup, better win it.

There's no way to cause loss of Prometheum cache is there? Person at 14 pc can just bail out at slightest hint of trouble and get the campaign win right?

>>52586829
What does the laser sight do?

>>52586829
>>52588563
Might forgo the Hotshot packs for something else it makes the lasguns cost the same as a bolter but without the -1 save modifier and a worse ammo roll. If ammo rolls affected the ammo and not the weapon it would be much more worthwhile

>>52588766
must have 15 and then win. 15 are the max cap of PC. Which mean in last game you can't use any PC if you want to win.

>>52588776
+1 to hit, give 6++ for the target.

>>52588766
No to both. One of the missions (the raid I think) can cause the defender to lose a cache depending on how they are defeated. Getting 15 pc's doesn't get the win, winning a mission while you have 15 does (and you can't have more than 15, so no spec op for the final mission, explicitly in the rules)

>>52588776
+1 to hit but if the target if facing you they get a 6++ save
have it on the shotty because it's -1 to hit past 4" and the buckshot can ignore cover modifiers

>>52588766
There's a mission where you can lose a cache.

>>52588802
>>52588828

Expecting the last game to be very chaotic because the opponent will use 5-6 cache to get 5-6 Special operative on the field and try to murder the leader and specialist.

>>52588979
You can only have 1 spec op at a time, and if you buy the solitaire, he's the only unit you can have on the field.

>>52589024
Read the rule again.

>A player may take more than one special operative at a time and may take more than one of the same kind.

Solitaire are special case because he had his special rule.

>>52589044
You still need to follow the model count cap right?

>>52589078
No.

So for tomorrow, I need to make a Skitarii list with no special weapons aside from Plasma Calivers (because my special squad isn't ready yet).

How would you recommend I do this? Take SpecWeps and buy them caches ASAP after the first games? Take no special weapons and 7 other guys with a couple kraks, then try to recruit Arquebi over the course of the campaign?

>>52588979
And then they win d3...
So a net loss of -3 to -5.
Next game the other player can still win.

Unless you went ham and killed all his important dudes

>>52589149
> try to murder the leader and specialist.

Which part did you miss? You would lost that game anyway if you don't spend your point.

>>52589142
You could still snipe with the rifle.(tele scope give it a whooping 45" range) But the Arquebus will be extra useful against Nid and Harlequin since it can Pin and insta gib them.

Plasma Caliver...ehhh what.. 18" plasma...meh.

>>52589044
Rip. What the hell was I thinking of, other than the solitaire?

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>>52589044
>knock knock, the 1st company is here!

>>52588629
What am I going to do, charge my guardsman in to fight necrons? If they're pinned, they stand back up and fight in melee at WS4.

>>52588777
I hardly ever fail the ammo roll but I guess being more expensive than bolters is pretty bad.

>>52589219
The part where setting you back 5 points, where your opponent is still on the winning one.

One where if someone showed up with that much, probably just bottle out and conscend ASAP and start another one.

They'll eventually run out of Caches if they keep spending 3+ and then you'll have an easier time.

Looking for feedback on my list:
Pathfinder Leader with Pistol - 170
Specialist 1: Stealth suit (do specialists weapons cost points if they come with the model?)
Specialist 2: Fireblade
2 Pathfinder Cadets with Markerlights - 130
1 Railrifle Pathfinder specialist with extra ammo - 240
1 Ion Rifle Pathfinder specialist with extra ammo - 210
3 Pathfinder Cadets with Pulse Carbines 240

Got an extra 10 pts still floating.

>>52587779

what did you expect?
Leman Russ?

>>52589234
>>52589243

This is why you don't go for the win at 15 without their leader and at least 1 specialist down. which would make the last game more manageable.

>>52589248
They won't if they're down in melee

>>52589252
Then do the objective, and count the model, if objective is done then they can feel free to bottle out. Win 1 game mean creating some space. Play next game spending only 1 cache. Or you could just be a quitter and surrender.

>>52589332
That's not how special operatives work man, you get then for one mission each time you pay a promethium cache, points aren't involved in any way. So the steal th suit and fireblade wouldn't be on your list

>>52589252
If you make sure you wipe the winning opponent off the board (and by that point in the campaign you're sure to have some neat skills to make his/her injury rolls worse) they will have to recruit more units to be able to win a game. And if you gimp the winning opponent enough, even if it sets you back, others in the campaign can keep stomping them to the curb. Assuming there are more people in your campaign than the two of you.

>>52589332
You need more troopers if you want that many cadets, new recruits can't be more than half your models, not including special operatives (who technically aren't part if the kill team anyway)

>>52589219
OK, I've had an idea. Starting list has a Specialist with a Clip Harness and then 7 other Skitarii. End of the first game, spend promethium for an Arquebus with Red Dot for him, and I'll bring the larger base just so if the games carry on I can do a filthy proxy. By the time I'm ready to recruit Arquebus #2 I should have magnet squad ready.

>>52589332
>>52589332
Spec Ops only cost the PC. I like fireblade and stealth suit, but that's a lot of PC for one mission.

Having folks with only Marker lights is a missed opportunity. You can't overwatch with them, and cadets can't assist other folks with pinning, so that's a waste of points

You also can't have 5 cadets with 1 leader and two specs. That's more than 50% of your team being recruits.

Here's my list; I've been working in it on these threads over the past few days and its got the boyz, some toyz, and can handle a good bit. Don't forget that you can't just start with spec ops. You have to pay for them with caches earned in the campaign, unless you're both agreeing I guess.

Pathfinder kill team v7.1

Shas'ui Kio'tor [Leader: 140]
+Carbine [30]
(180)

Shas'la Ra'vaal [Trooper: 60]
+Carbine [30]
+Marker Light [15]
(105)

Shas'la Su'tra [Recruit: 50]
+Carbine [30]
+Marker Light [15]
(95)

Shas'la Qior'tan [Recruit: 50]
+Carbine [30]
(80)

Shas'la Pa'nam [Recruit: 50]
+Carbine [30]
(80)

Shas'la En'kal [Specialist: 60]
+Rail Rifle [120]
(180)

Shas'la Xa'kal [Specialist: 60]
+Rail Rifle [120]
(180)

MB-3 "b1G'B3rtHa" [Recon Drone: 110]

>>52589377
Ahhh, I had a feeling it was that way. I thought I had hit the max unit cap too easily.

Updated list:
Pathfinder Leader with Pistol - 170

1 Pathfinder Cadet with Markerlights - 65
1 Railrifle Pathfinder specialist with extra ammo - 240

4 Pathfinders with Pulse Carbines 360
Recon Drone - 110
Pulse Accelerator Drone - 50

with 5 pts floating

>>52589523
Drop the extra ammo and pulse Accelerator Drone. Use the points to get a guy or two to hang out with the spec. If given the proper terrain, you're not going to need the acceleration Drone because it's not likely you'll have the open space. I'd do it after your first or second game, or spend thst first cache for it (that's my plan).

>>52589523
Why not give leader Pulse carbine. they cost the same price and carbine are miles better.

Unless you want it for melee, which is the worst idea ever.

>>52589571
Agreed. Theres no reason for the pistol. We have some of the best basic guns in the game. Str 5, -2arm is sexy as hell.

>>52589571
some anon posted a shitty shoop of a tau leader with to pistols.

he's gonna go for it no matter how retarded it is.

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>>52589647
That was me. It's a model from wargame exclusive. Mostly it would just be fun to use the model, more than anything lol.

>>52589571
>>52589597
I read someone talking up how good the pulse pistol is, so I decided to include that. That's what I get for listening to people on the internet
Made another list closer to >>52589477
Pathfinder Leader with PC - 170

2 Pathfinder Cadet with Markerlights and PCs- 190
Pathfinder Cadet with PC - 80
1 Railrifle Pathfinder specialist - 180

3 Pathfinders with Pulse Carbines - 270
Recon Drone - 110

>>52589669
>lol

>>52589686
The pistol is okay but the problem is you're not going to win in CC, your guy are WS2 and you have 1 or 2 attack. You'll be murder by everyone . If you want team with lots of pistol user, try harlequin, they have the best pistols in the game.

>>52589355
If they're down they're dead. They got hit, wounded, and failed their armour. Not so much for necrons I guess but they're going to miss at least 2 turns even if they do recover.

So, when a las gun with hotshot rounds fails a ammo roll, can it just be used as a normal gun still? or is it out?

>>52589725
Not that player but, sometimes people just want to use their cool looking model/making an army they like the feel of and prioritize that over what's effective. Making something effective comes 2nd.

>>52589332
>listing Special Operatives in your normal list
Those guys are NOT Specialists. They are super units who cost a promethium cache PER BATTLE to deploy. You can't deploy them first battle, which leads to the problem of...

>five cadets
Special Operatives are not specialists, aren't actually part of your kill team, and don't count towards how many dudes you have for the purpose of your new recruit limit, nignog. If you're dead set on running this list, use those ten points to turn one of them into a real Pathfinder so you'll have the four not-a-fuckace-rookie models to support your four remaining fuckface rookies.

>(do specialists weapons cost points if they come with the model?)
Special Operatives can take their listed options at no cost because they're not actually part of your killteam.

>extra ammo on your actual specialists
You could buy a whole fukken burst cannon drone with those points, yo. Alternatively, you could give actual guns to your other two cadets, hand out photon grenades like candy to help cover for shitty Tau CC, and move the markerlights onto your specs so they can actually do shit if they run out of ammo (which, by the way, they only have a total of a 7/72 chance of per shot fired. That's slightly under ten percent, for those of us who are shit at math.) Hell, if you just drop the rail rifleman's extra ammo, you can gun up both of the ungunned cadets, keep one of them spotting, and give railboy the second markerlight so he can spot if he runs out of shots.

The big TL;DR takeaway is that Special Operatives (yes, I'm capitalizing them every time to drive the point home) are not specialists and will not fill your ranks for the purpose of your rookie cap.

>>52589669
isn't the gun on his thigh a carbine? you could use the gun on he's pointing as a marketlight.

>>52589693
Just because we're on 4chan, and TG most of all, doesn't mean I can't use whatever language. Get outta here.

For weapons that cause multiple wounds, when does that happen? Is it after the to hit roll, after the to wound roll, or after armor saves?

>>52589853
nerd

>>52589919
We're all nerds here.

>>52587630

No. This opens up Ynnari faggotry.

>>52590033
speak for your fucking self faggot

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>>52589784
It's his second pistol. Here's their shop painted pic that whoever was bitching about.

Wargame exclusive has some super awesome alt sculpts.

>>52590069
Go back to /b/.

>>52587630
Just brew up your own faction. Chaos Champion + Chaos Gunner and Guardsmen Troopers / Recruits

>Or just use normal CSM. You already have Marines as elites and Cultists as fodder.

>>52589477
Two rail rifles seems like it gives the other guy a bit too much ability to just block LOS and laugh at your 180-point dudes. Have you seen it work well on TT?
I ask because I'm considering a very similar list, except the second specialist is packing an ion rifle, the non-markerlight recruits are upgraded to troopers, and your trooper's markerlight is on the rail rifleman so he can still be useful if he has to move.

>>52590114
loser

>>52589686
That's a lot better, I think. You have a lot of bodies. I used more cadets because there's no difference except pistols and the bonding ritual from the Shas'ui fixes the pinning issue.

I think having the two specs early helps you out a ton in the early campaign and saves points later because now you can spend points on gear instead.

My specs used to have Clip harnesses and visors, but I can just give them to them after my first game.

>>52590090
Alright, I hope he'll get a medal after he charge (probably die horribly) a Tyranid, or a GK.

>>52589911
>I'm fairly sure it goes, roll to hit > roll to wound> roll saves> roll number of wounds

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Starting Skitarii List:

Alpha, Visor, Galvanic (200)
Specialist, Clip harness, Omnispex (140)
2xRanger, Galvanic, Photovisor (130x2)
4xFreshforged, Galvanic (4x100)

Total 1k, gives decent dakka, given at range with Omnispex buffs they're BS4 Ignore Cover, which is respectable for 100pt rookies.
After Game 1 trade promethium, get the Specialist an Arquebus and hand the Omnispex to another dude, then just buy gear and roll Guerrilla unless something goes well and I can get a second Arquebus. Thoughts?

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what weapon should I get on my Chaos Gunner? I'm thinking either the heavy bolter or autocannon, but I'm not sure if the missile launcher or plasma gun are any good.

I can't find the Volatile sr, anyone know it?

>>52590343
Large blast on missile launcher actually looks really good.

Not much damage but remember if you hit them you pin them and anyone standing close enough to help them up.
Krak missiles can delete things, good vs tyranids I bet.

Autocannon and heavy bolter are really nice, bother rend -2 to fuck over power armour but the autocannon is more reliable and high strength at the cost of less shots.

>>52587273
This is some effort. Cheers m8.

>Cypher finally gets a new model
>Fallen now have their own models
>No kill team rules for them
Fuck this gay earth, I might as well run them as CSM with cultists now right?

>>52590385
AFAIK it's the double ones on Ammo Check cause hit at weapon stats -1S, same as Unreliable.

>>52590430
Cypher as Aspiring champion with plasma pistol.

>>52590343
I was going to go Heavy Bolter but modeled as a Kakophoni/Noise Marine from the Horus Heresy games.

That said, a missile launcher with both options seems pretty good. S4 Large Blast or S8 fuck you missiles is good flexibility.

>>52590135
My ultimate goal is to take advantage of our short list of cheap gear and have everyone with markerlights by the second game. I'm also considering one ion, especially if we get to overcharge it like it's supposed to be. I plan to give the specs pistols as well, for emergencies.

I think for us, as tau, it comes down to working our strengths. I love the style of the Kauyon, and I think we can play in to the fluff. So studying the battlefield and anticipating you fire lanes, using pawns to draw in targets. Being a marine helps me a little, too, as I have experience with urban warfare. Tau, out of all the races, the most like the USMC; I think that's why they're my favorite.

As for tabletop, I haven't tried it yet. This is all speculation and trial and error. These threads have helped a lot in shaping my list, and it has enough of what I want on it that I'm pretty comfy with the current version.

>>52590199
I mean im not going to put him in my campaign list unless I have nothing better to do.

>>52590167
Sure. :)

Oh god, emoticons on 4chan?! He's broken the unspoken rules! The world will end!

>>52590543
this is just pathetic

>>52590572
:^)

>>52590572
:^)

>>52590588
>>52590603
Not him, but you're an embarrassment mate. Now both fuck off and let us discuss SW in peace.

>>52590662
:^(

>>52590397
>>52590523

The missile launcher sounds like it has strong potential, worth the 225pts for both missile types though? Would put quite a dent in the ol' starting roster and as far as I can see you wouldn't be able to buy one later.

>>52590526
Thing is, Tau have a very short time in which they can do ALL the damage with their 18" range, so you really don't want too many markers, since when they come into range of anything but the basics you'll probably be close enough to get LoS around cover and need as much of your stupidly OP dakka as possible before the Harlies/CSM make mincemeat from you. Two or three would probably be fine, unless there's an Accelerator Drone letting you get use out of them, and burst cannons are amazing so that's unlikely. I would invest in visors first, honestly, but given the aforementioned short list it won't take long to get everything.

>>52590750
I guess it depends on the opponent. Against Harlequins who can just dodge it? You may get more out of the heavy bolter. Against Nids or Orks or if youre going against multiple enemy types? It's probably worth it.

You could go Aspiring champion, Missile Specialist, 1 regular bolter marine, and a gaggle of cultists to start then buy another marine next game?

>>52587273
The missing pages from the google Doc are just fluff and pictures. I had felt no real inclination to include them as they added nothing. I'm going to retake a picture of the page for bottle test.

I didn't realize I had put in some duplicate pages in there. That's my bad. I'll also include the Missions. Can't remember why I didn't bother with them.

>>52590526
>I'm also considering one ion, especially if we get to overcharge it like it's supposed to be
Unless an errata or rules expansion happens, we're not getting an overcharge option. There's no such beast in our existing rules.

I think I'll stick with my plan of having more real dudes and just the one fuckface rookie, as well as starting the rifleman with one of the markerlights in case it's helpful for delivering a critical volume of fire on dudes who are just barely out of his lane.

>>52590662
I have been, thanks. He's the douchecanoe that's been saying stupid shit because I used 'lol'.

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Been thinking about jumping back into 40k with Genestealer Cultists and Shadow War looks like a good starting point. Thoughts on this list?

Neophyte Leader - 120
Autopistol - 15
Power pick - 50
Total - 185

Neophyte Hybrid x4 - 240
Autogun x4 - 80
Total - 320

Neophyte Initiate x4 - 200
Autopistol x4 - 60
Total - 260

Neophyte Heavy - 70
Autopistol - 15
Heavy Stubber - 120
Photo-visor - 15
Total - 230

Total Kill Team - 995

My idea is for the Leader and the Initiates try to assault the enemy if ideal or at least defend the Hybrids and Heavy while they shoot up the enemy from a distance. Once the Initiates become Troopers I might end up giving them shotguns as well. A problem I have though is that the Neophyte boxed set only comes with 1 autopistol and 1 CCW (besides the chainsword and power weapons). Might have to get a Acolyte Hybrid box and use some of the arms from that. I'm also disappointed that Acolytes are only Special Operatives instead of potential Specialists.

>>52590894
take a photo of the authors page please

>>52590776
I agree. Giving everyone markerlights is more for the flexibility than actual planned use. Like, if I have the ability to just shoot someone off the board I will. But I'm going to likely have a dedicated spotter sitting with my specs not only for supporting fire protection, but things like helping them up, blocking a charge, etc etc. Most importantly is to be able to negate those cover saves. BS 3 is kinda wimpy, especially when we they have full cover.

I'm wondering if using markerlights help negate the bonuses to running, charging, or being a clown?

>>52591038
No, only cover, unless being a clown gives you cover

>>52591038
Nah, just the ones for cover, or I'd be a lot more enthused about Omnispexes. AFAIK there's nothing that can cut those other than just slapping on Red Dots and +BS advances. You don't get the former, which makes sense because only downside and all that, but that does make your single-shot special weapons a lot more unreliable than say, an Arquebus or a Plasmagun, even ignoring cover. Either they'll be BS2 because enemy is running or charging, or they'll be taking return fire because that's the only time you're going to stand still against Tau.

Half my team is currently BS3, but we do get +1 at long ranges, which helps a lot. In my starter game last weekend my dudes shot very well, but the enemy had partial or full cover more often than not, so it didn't help much. Range is huge, since even with us forgetting the "Pin when hit" thing I got a couple rounds of shooting in before I started taking fire back.

>>52590990
Standard, but I'd try and get a second specialist in your list, in place of one of the less reliable initiates. You can get up to three of them, so no real reason to limit yourself, even if it means having him run around with a pistol+knife for one game.

because it means you can get webbers, which are gooood

>>52590789

I'll be playing against marines, dark eldar, skitarii and orks, so ML might be worthwhile.

>>52591289
dark eldar are free wins

>>52591177

Hmm, yeah. That's why I find Marker lights useful, at least for my snipers. It's going to be a lot of trial and error mostly. But the best thing about tau is, again, our short list of cheap but effective gear. It leaves most of my planning on actual board position and effective use of troops.

>>52590430
>Fallen now have their own models

>>52591542
Let him have his fantasy anon, don't ruin his dream,

Anvil industries or raging heroes for my guard team?

Or, should I dig out my escher?

So I watched this battle report, and why the fuck do people think GK can't hire a specialist/gunner normally? You get your fucking 100 and can spend a cache for an extra 100 which equals 200 last time I checked. A gunner costs 200 and comes with a stormbolter that they can exchange for a weapon on the special weapons list.

Fuck. Do the math. Stop mimimimimi

Its crazy how some things are just more powerful than in 40k. Snipers with toxic, grenade launchers, krak grenades. IG with massed frags and kraks would be scary opponents.

>>52591631
Sorry. This battle report:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz4Sf3RRYMY

>>52586648
you can attempt to recover from pinning instantly if you are within 3 inches of a team member that isn't a cadet

>>52591631
Re-read the specialist entry. You HAVE TO take either special OR melee. So min is 225 if you take staff.

>>52591631
GK Gunners are required to buy a melee weapon or gun which is impossible without the skill or pre-game roll giving you extra dosh.

>>52591631
For the next episode this anon gonna show us how to get a Tyranid Warrior Trooper with just 200 pts. Tune in to find out.

>>52590322
Anyone? Campaign will be longer than usual, but I'm wondering whether I should dock a Fresh-Forged and gear everyone up a bunch.

>>52591676
>>52591680
How about you re-read the entry.
>A Grey Knight Gunner has a storm bolter and power armour. In
addition, a Grey Knight Gunner must either be armed with one item chosen
from the Grey Knights Hand-to-Hand Weapons list or replace with their storm
bolter with one item chosen from the Grey Knights Special Weapons list.

So they come with a free storm bolter and they either have to buy a weapon OR they can choose to replace their stormbolter with a weapon from the special weapons list instead.

Gunner with replaced stormbolter = 200 points

>>52591631
>Gunner = 200
>Gunner MUST also take a Melee Weapon or Special Weapon
>Melee range from 25 to 100
>Special ranged from 75 to 175

>Gunner therefore costs 225 to 375
>Unless you get a mission that gives additional points / guerrilla Scavenger. You'll get 100 + 100 for a PC
>200 < 225

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>>52586833
That's what the Big Shoota boy is for.

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gonna be playing Sunday so threw together three teams; am debating rebasing the TF2 crews onto more tech-style bases and need to have a LoS marker (mainly for overwatch)

Da Redz
Pyro (boss): kombiflamer, 210
Heavy (Spanna): Big Shoota: 220
Heavy (Spanna): Big Shoota: 220
Engie (Boy): 60
spy (Boy): Slugga: 70
Scout (yoof): Shoota 55
Demo (yoof): Shoota 55
sniper (yoof): Shoota 55
medic (yoof): Shoota 55

Blu Team
Heavy (sarge): Boltgun: 155
Pyro (specialist): flamer: 110
Demo (spec): gren lncr: 155 / 170 / 195
Sniper (vet): 85
scout (vet shotgun 80
engie (vet) shotgun 80
engie (vet) shotgun 80
medic (vet) lasgun 85
spy (troop) laspistol 65
soldier (troop) laspistol 65

Skitarii
Alpha: Galvanic Rifle, photovisor: 200
Specialist: Arc Rifle: 130
Specialist: ARc Rifle: 130
Ranger: Galvanic Rifle, Red Dot: 135
Ranger: Galvanic Rifle, Red Dot: 135
Ranger: Galvanic Rifle, Red Dot: 135
Ranger: Galvanic Rifle, Red Dot: 135

>>52591775
You're a genius, replaced storm bolter for special weapon for free.

>>52591789
No. The gunner comes with the stormbolter included in the 200 points. That stormbolter can be replaced. Not fucking pawned for cash to fund another weapon. Just replaced. So you can indeed hire a gunner for 200 points.

>>52591509
Seriously.
>harliquins pay 30 points for a -2 rend sword
>DE get a similar weapon for 10 but it's -3 rend and you cant parry it
>10 more points for shred
>and the wytch still has a 4++ in combat.

>>52591775
The replacement is not free. Because if it were, why would there be any point costs for those weapons?

>>52591821
Well, they only get that special weapon and lose the stormbolter. But that's what the entry says.

>>52591841
Because you might start your team out with a gunner who takes a melee weapon, and then you want to give them a weapon from the special list during a future rearm action between fights. At that point it's useful if the point cost is in the list.

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>>52591826
>>52591848

>Get Special weapon for free.

>This guy lol.

>>52591775
Well golly gee the entry doesn't say you have to pay for the melee weapon either so I guess that shit's free too!!!!

>>52591871
That's what the entry says though.

>>52591869
Why wouldnt it be free at that point too?

Stop this please.

>>52588710
Yes, just like the other elite armies.

>>52591887
Well it says they must be armed with the melee weapon, or replace their stormbolter with a special weapon. It doesn't say they must replace their stormbolter with either a melee weapon or a special weapon.

>>52591895
Because it's not part of the team creation. Not sure what you want me to stop. Helping people read the rule correctly?

>>52588602
I'm not sure if it's the rules or just the store but my local gw has a rule that you keep unspent points, even from the original 1000pts for the squad.

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Okay people, this is obviously bait.

Move on guys.

>>52591805
Those custom Skitarii are sexy. They intended to be anything in particular or are they just cool metal men?

Anyway, I don't think Arc is the best use of a Specialist, given it's sacrificing range, save mod and ammo roll just for extra accuracy right up close and a point of strength. I'd say it's worse than a Galvanic, even if they cost the same, and you have to ditch them to get anything better, which is an entire basic Ranger down the drain. I'd cut one Arc Guy, swap those Red Dots for Photovisors and use the points to arm the other specialist with an Arquebus and clip harness, have him snipe.
Or just drop some Red Dots entirely or downgrade some guys to Fresh-Forged and swap the Arc to Plasma if you want cheap heavy dakka. Good to have a couple recruits around at the start just for free points after a while.

>>52591670
It's 2". Fire support is 3", and if they're within 12 of the Shas'ui, they can do it without another dude there. This is be helpful because of break tests; essentially you won't take any if planned right. As I understand it.

But yeah. The difference between a tau Cadet and a troop is:

10pt
Cadet can't use pistol
Cadet can't gain skills
Cadet can't assist an ally

That's it as far as I'm aware

>>52590167
>>52590543
Girls! Just fucking stop already.

>>52591945
That's a house rule. Miniwargaming uses that house rule in their games as well.

>>52591951
If you're talking about the GK gunner, no that's definitely not bait. It's in the fucking entry.

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>ITT

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>>52591584
Escher! I'm thinking about running my Goliaths as Orks - if I can find those muscle boys. Or I could talk to my opponents about using the community/yak tribe Necro rules...

>>52591993
In what circumstance will the point cost of the weapon be used?


>When you are resupplying your kill team, a fighter from a Tyranid Warrior kill team can replace any of its Hand-to-Hand Bio-weapons, Basic Bio-weapons and/or Bio-cannons for another weapon as appropriate (PROVIDED THAT YOU ALSO HAVE ENOUGH POINTS TO DO SO).

>For example, if your kill team included a Tyranid Warrior armed with a pair of scything talons and a deathspitter, you could replace its scything talons with a lash whip and bonesword for the cost of 100 points.

>Inb4 but muh Gk have special privilege

Yeah keep acting like a retard.

>>52591584
Escher, you could even use their old rules is you wanted

>>52592070
>When you are resupplying

Yeah keep failing to read.

>>52592103
>In what circumstance will the point cost of the weapon be used?

yes keep dodging my question

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>>52592001
Made me smile

>>52592115
So you're saying there's no difference between your example and the GK entry? Does GK have their weapons grown out of their bodies?

>>52592199
>In what circumstance will the point cost of the weapon be used?

It look like you can't answer this

>>52592225
I just did. Your example doesn't compare. I understand that you think it does, but it don't.

>>52591967
just cool dudes from the bits box; had an offer of the orks from the shadows box in trade so may not even paint 'em!
was surprised how easy the bases were; may add rivets to the next batch though!

>>52590894
If you could take a picture of the movement page that would be great, Page 26.

That and the missions are the only things yours lacked. So I salute you for all the work that went into it, I mean stuff in yellow is just minor things generally, Red stuff so missing stuff is mainly the fluff.

I initially set out with the contents page, just for my own personal use, because we finally had a complete document in a coherent fashion, noticed the missions and the duplicates pages, and in going down the rabbithole looking for missions, I refound the bols scanner stuff.

If it helps its page 5 and 34/35 that I believed were incorrect on your doc.

>>52592249
Replace during resupply cost point.

Replace at the beginning cost 0

>Genius.

>>52587630
Use a true scale marine on a big built-up base as a counts-as Ogryn.

Or like other anons have said, go Chaos ( though you will only be able to use half the KT as cultists)

>>52592385
Well, it doesn't say that you need points to replace the stormbolter. Sure if there had been some sort of refund for the replaced stormbolter, then it would have been a similar case, but there isn't. You get a stormbolter included in the cost of the unit. You have to drop that and get another weapon. It's only logical in this instance that you get a different weapon for free instead of the free stormbolter.

>>52592517
>Nid replace weapon cost point

>But muh GK replace weapon for free, because logical privilege.

>Buying new guy and replace his gun with 175 points gun for free, only pay 200 pts.

Genius.

>>52592564
I don't fucking play GK you muppet.

Look at the stats for a fucking stormbolter. What would you price it at?

>>52592263
Yeah, I'm just doing a basic squad with the odd knife or grenade modelled on, and a custom backpack for Alpha guy. My Heresy Mechanicum are going to get fancy bases, but for these I'm just practicing my magnetizing and subassemblies, which is almost every part because magnets.

>>52592617
Based on how a storm bolter reload costs 25 points, it must cost 50 points.

>>52592617
>I'm gonna replace my piece of shit s4 gun with S7 D3 -3 Substined fire 2 gun for FREE, because it was clearly equal, because it's GK, they have privilege. The emprah will pay for it.

>Also i'm in no way afflicted with GK or play GK.

Genuis.

>>52592766
Affiliated? Or afflicted. The use of the latter is a rather creative phrase and gave me a chuckle.

>>52592617
I don't think you can refund points cost for stuff, and stormbolters don't have a price they're just free on Grey Knights? It says when you buy a special weapon, it replaces the storm bolter.

The cost of an incinerator is 75 points, less than the heavy flamer which it is better than. I'm sure the storm bolter's cost is refunded when you do buy the special weapon. Saying that a Storm Bolter is 50 points, then an incinerator would be 125.

>>52592766
I'm just fed up with the GK players mimimi about them not being able to recruit this and that. As if GK is in some way gimped.

Also "genuis"? Are you in that much of a hurry to trashtalk me?

>>52592834
you're now one step beyon Genius, you're now Genuis. this is some of the mortal mind that can challenge god.

>>52592822
Just as planned.

In other news, legend once said in the Guerilla table there're a skill that can summon the inferior version of the GK gunner that cost more than 200 points, that was simply a failure of creature, a discrage to the GK chapter. True Gunner only cost 200pt, and never have to pay for weapon.

>>52592826
The incinerator is actually a good point. I believe you're right. I didn't check the stats on the incinerator. Your explanation is likely correct. Sorry about the initial rage against GK players complaining. However I do not see the problem with them being forced to recruit two gunners when they create their team. Even in 40k GK is bloody expensive pointswise.

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>>52592834
>>52592822
>>52592766
Holy fuck. Calm down faggots.

Is it just me or is Chaos shit and frustrating?

Finally got around to playing and learning the game today, i had a list vaguely worked out roughly 3 Marines and 6 or 7 cultists, then i'm told i can't do that, it's basically 1 cultist per marine. what the fuck

So instead i go 4 boltgun/chainsword marines, 3 auto-pistol and various weapons, 1 shotgunner random pistol shots took out more marines and eldar than anyone in melee because no one can get there with such shitty movement of 4. WHY do either CSM or cultists not move quicker than each other? i feel cultists should be quicker but having both be slow as shit was lame

I liked the save mods, -1 for cover, and 1+ to hit at close range, but ultimately this game was poor and I'll stick to regular Kill Team for my Chaos needs

>>52592916
There. I admitted I'm wrong. Now go jack off to that.

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>>52590118
>Just brew up your own faction.

The rules are there for a reason, faggot. Stop cheating.

>>52592938
It's like that for Chaos for the first three games, but once your Cultists level up you can take more - say, 4 Marines + 4 Cultists, after three games that the Cultists survive you'll be able to take (Surviving Marines) + (Surviving Cultists) amount of new recruit Cultists.

I agree though, it is unfluffy as fuck.

>>52592938
>is Chaos shit and frustrating?
chaos marines are great in close combat
not so great outside it

8" move can cover quite a bit of ground, and if you're smart about where you go that means -2 or more to hit you (run+partial cover). Just need actual cover to work with.

>>52592938
Yeah it's kinda crappy in that fashion. DESU I'm sure most people will agree to ignore those limitations and let you field that many cultists.

Most people move 4 inches, I guess the chaos marines larger and stronger and so would move faster, but are in heavy armour so they're slowed back down to 4. Scouts move 5 iirc. Guardsmen move 4.

I think these rules are amazing and this sort of ruleset should just be the standard. Having cover giving you modifiers to hitting, rather than being a save alongside armour and invulnerable, makes much more sense to me.

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So are we in agreement that GK pay for the points on the gun?

It doesn't say it's for free right?

>>52593035
S T O P
T H I S
F A G G O T R Y

>>52593035
I'd like to see a errata of that gunner text, but I agree that the incinerator logic is more likely to be correct. Still I don't think that GK players have reason to whine about that, nor do I consider it warranted to houserule that you can keep your points so GK and other factions with high cost units and weapons have an easier time recruiting their best units.

>>52592938
CSM are the only fighter in the game that can reach T6, with Iron Jaw basicly he'll be invincible in close combat.

It was mostly depend on how you set up the terrain, open field with less place to hide, it's gonna be very hard to get close.

If you can shot first and pin them first, then you can advance, it look like you run into their fire and get pinned.

Also remember you can bottle out and fight another day if you think you can't win, the cultist are there for a reason, try not to get your marine guy injured. (especially the gunner)

>>52592983
Stupidly unfluffy, why did they bother making such cool melee weapons for cultists and then you're lucky to ever swing one with weak movement and basically no save. and none of the typical Cultist perks (outnumbering)

>>52592995
I don't see what makes CSM that good in combat unless no one else gets like chainswords, which i know isn't true. MoK is only 1 extra attack and how is Slaanesh useful in a game where Initiative doesn't matter?

>>52593029
I'm thinking either they go down the logic of 'Marines are heavy and slow/steady, Cultists are lightly equipped madmen racing forward'
OR
'Marines are cyber superhuman warriors who never tire, this lets them cover more distance than the average man'

the middle ground is just the least fun option and makes both feel pathetic. I might look to play my GSC instead Chaos doesn't seem fun at all

>>52593159
>Initiative doesn't matter

Initiative help with pinning and various test, you don't even know what pinning is and how important it is did you?

Chainsword are crap for marine, they have S4 default, good thing is they're cheap for the sv mod and have parry.

>>52593159
Initiative is what determines your charge.

Also mark of nurgle.

>>52593211
it gives them a -3 rend, 2 attack dice and the ability to parry which is pretty frikking good in melee for 25 points

>>52593157
Yeah I agree chaos is op as fuck - probably worst thing besides harlies

>>52593224
>Initiative is what determines your charge.
Initiative just lets you charge things you can't see. It doesn't help you to be aware of some guy 10 inches away if you can only move 8

>>52593224
>Initiative is what determines your charge.
Only for out of sight charge.

>>52593252
Which is exactly what i said. But they have fix str and it does not give CSM really advantage based on his S4, it's great for say a Guardman with S3. Also pistol can be used in melee with their profile, That plasma pistol would be mile beter than the chainsword/bolt pistol.

>>52593159
>I don't see what makes CSM that good in combat
WS4 S4, an actual armor save and either T5 or A2

you're paying 160 for one, but chainsword+BP (or, hell, chainsword+knife+frag grenade) marines are legit

>>52593298
The plasma pistol that a single model can carry?

>>52593035
I.... don't understand what the argument behind this is but everyone pays points for the stuff they get given?? ??? Like their armour and the knife? It's part of the points cost of the model?

>>52593159
If I didn't already have guard I would totally be playing a counts as GSC army myself.

>>52593277
Initiative is there for pinning test dumb fucks - you get pinned ON A HIT ffs - you can have T6 terminatour amrous madafucker - if he is not immune to pin only thing need is idiot with +2 to hit bolt pisol in his face ... get your shit together pinning is the key in this game

>>52593224
Yeah Nurgle would be the tits. I'd give my Cultists either just pistols or auto guns, and send them up the guts to get fucked up. One Havoc with an Autocannon to provided long-range pinning, and send the Marines up behind the Cultists.

You have to shoot at the closest targets, so those Cultists should eat fire while the Marines get a free move upfield. The Autocannon Marine pins your opponents nearest units, so your advancing Marines needn't worry about them.

>>52593317
Knife and armour is included in the point cost for the unit if the description of the unit says they come with a knife and armour.

>>52593298
well the advantage you get is the extra 2 rend on top of the 1 you have because of the base strength 4 , and it's only 10 points more than a normal combat blade
it's not as good for marines as it is for a guardsman sure , but it's still the best option in my book

>>52593316
Yes. The Aspiring Champion.

CSM are one of the more flexible faction out there compared to other army, like Necron, who will need some more luck on the dice and way harder to play.

>>52593224
I'm getting quite tired of CSM needing to go Mark of Nurgle in every game that exists just to be half decent, but yeah i get it.

>>52593211
I guess? for the three things i did like, there's plenty not to like

Getting shot once and falling over felt stupid and wasn't fun. Never getting up because i fail my I check was crap, and having a Marine need a cultist to pick him up was just dumb. And being instant killed just for being outnumbered

I never played Necromundia so this game probably isn't for me

>>52593375

A cultist cannot pick u a marine. Recruit can't help with pinning test. If your marine get pin before your cultist, you're playing it wrong. Cultist go out take the fire, marine go out shot and pin the guy back.

Pinning are the only solution for elite army like GK to deal with horde army, without it, they'll be overwhelmed quickly.

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>>52593375
Believe me, I fucking hate nurgle myself.

>even in this game TS are shit

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9KB, 323x298px

>>52593468
Yeah i'm sure they are, no need to convince me

To elaborate on the Necromundia thing, here's the problem in my head with basically just revamping that game

When your 'warband' is a bunch of scumbag know-nothing dumb fuck hive gangers and you're lucky to have both your arms and eyes, you're probably okay with your dudes stumbling over ruins, falling off walkways, needing to be picked up, stomped to death by 2 other dudes etc. It's funny, like how Mordheim had a lot of humour

But when you're playing with like 10,000 year old Veterans and the guy gets knocked down by a laspistol or fails to reload his ancient relic bolter he's had for a hundred years or your insane fanatical cultists are actually just 4 dudes walking slowly forward it gets a bit pathetic and shows why 40k's Superhuman grimdarkness doens't work for a system like this.

This game is very unfluffy and doesn't fit the image of the units in the lore.

i can only imagine how dumb 4 Tyranid warriors bumbling around with their one Zoanthrope friend must look. (And how the fuck are all these races on Armageddon again??)

>>52593035
it must cost points because other entries are worded the same, making points for gear pointless

copy paste from mime:
>Wargear: A Mime has a concealed blade, Harlequin mask, flip belt and holo-suit.
>In addition, a Mime can be armed with items chosen from the Harlequins
>Hand-to-Hand Weapons, Pistols, Grenades and Miscellaneous Equipmentlists

does this mean mime can get all the stuff for free?
hell no.
that would be retarded

>>52593631
That entry says "in addition" though. The GK entry says you can replace the weapon that comes with the unit.

So putting aside Solitaire spam, how do you make a decent Harlequin team? There's not many, and they're all squishy as hell. Do you just get a Leader, as many mimes as possible leaving two slots free and then a specialist if you can afford one? Luckily their upgrades come in neat 85/100pt chunks, so you won't have to spend too much Promethium. What weapons are worth? Seems that using pistols is a legit loadout thanks to base S3.

What is the cheapest kill team you can make? My friend is a poorfag but extremely against using anyone else models, so far I think CSM are because of the 3CSM and 5Cultists boxes but what do you guys think?

>>52593685
Probably either Skitarii or Harlequins, since one box gets literally everything and a billion heads to use for visors and shit. Both of those are a pain in the ass to paint, though, speaking as someone with two full Battle Maniples.

>>52593685
most kill teams can be made with a single box

>>52593685
Dark eldar, it's literally just a box of wytches.

You can convert one wytch in to a succubus with some spare bits for the glaive.

>>52593685
Probably the grey knight. The game is mostly one box of units to get started and you likely won't even need to spend money on spec ops for a while since first few games are about strengthening your core team rather than splurging on special characters.

>>52593756
>>52593685
grey knights is 33 for your 5 guys and comes with everything you need including two psycannons

wyches are 29 and have lots of stuff to make your wyches and bloodbrides

>>52593683
You can't spam solitaires. It's just 1 dude

>>52593793
29 for 9 wytchs AND a succubus.

Everything you will ever need in a single box.

>>52593685
It's easier to say what you don't buy.

No necrons and no orks

>>52593677
and that leads you to believe its free?
be real

>>52593685

Most kill teams are just one box of dudes. The cheapest boxes of dudes are orks or dark eldar.

>>52593880
Aren't Orks technically more expensive because of their point costs? Meaning you would need multiple boxes.

>>52593952
with wargear, a starting band of orks is unlikely to go past 10

>>52593952
A box of nobs and a box of boyz is a must, maybe a second box of boyz if you want to go towards the full 20.

>>52593992
nob is included in the 10 ork box, with PK even.
though the model is a not as cool as regular nobs

>>52593627
>And how the fuck are all these races on Armageddon again?
I think that the only races on Armageddon are Orks and humans. Which is why they are bundled together into the boxset. The other armies are included so you can play using the same rules, but aren't on Armageddon.

>>52593876
I'm just saying it's not worded the same.

>>52593979
Mine is at fifteen. And I've got points to spare for the equipment yet.

>>52594041
So if I wanted to play the game as Orcs, I need to get a box of nobz and a box of boys? Will I be at a complete disadvantage if I don't buy them?

>>52594041
>nob is included in the 10 ork box, with PK even.
>implying
Calling a shitty boy model with a klaw a nob is an insult to the nob models, do it right or dont do it at all.

>>52594084
No. Because a box of Boyz comes with a Nob. You only need one.

>>52594101
Pick up a Nob on eBay. The Black Reach ones cost fuck all.

>>52594084
If you dont buy models you'll be at a disadvantage because you can't play games!

Nob boxes are cheap, their models look superior and distinct to regular boyz.

>>52594112
It comes with shitty conversion bits you can use to make a boy look like a nob.

File: nobz without their naut.jpg (59KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 600x620px

>>52594142
>>52594101
>>52594084
Look at this, LOOK at this.

Are you saying some boy with a tiny baby klaw can ape their look?

>>52593979
I disagree. You want to field as many as possible without gimping them too much. My list has 14 units. More boyz, less toys.

>>52594101
did i not mention he was not as cool?

myself i have a sew of the older metal figs as well as a set of plastic from assault on black reach.
But i believe he asked because he dint want to spend so much.

he could easily play with the box of boys, then upgrade to a fancier nob later.
no need to sperg so hard

>>52594050
That's not really correct. While not all the factions took part in the third war, there were a lot of different factions there.

>>52594287
could you present us with your list?
i am intrigued.

>>52594297
Fuck off, I'll sperg all I like and YOU can't stop me.

>>52594084
As orks you'll want to field as many units as possible since that's part of their strength (they can have more units and they gain bonuses from outnumbering their opponents). I'd say at least two basic boxes. My ork list has 14 units for example. I can't cover that with one box. And then I might want to add more units as the campaign progresses so...

>>52594142
>If you dont buy models you'll be at a disadvantage because you can't play games!
I can play because the game comes with models. I'm asking how much of a disadvantage I'll be at because I don't want to spend $60+ more after spending $130 on the game.

The game doesn't release in the US until tomorrow, right?

>>52594369
Oh, well.
You can pick up boyz and nobs super cheap on Ebay, people flog boyz for cheap all the time and now the flog nobz too because they dont want the ones that come in the ST kit.

Nobz and Boyz are some of the cheapest kits GW sells anyway, go to a 20% discount place and you can pick them up for near nothing I bet.

>>52594319
Apparently the system thinks my post is spam when I try to post my list

>>52594411
Yup

>>52594319
It's only an early draft (Evil Sunz).

Boss Nob (160), Big choppa (15).

Spanner Boy (70), Shoota (25), Red-dot laser sight (15), Stikkbombs (25), Choppa (10),

5 x Boy (60), Slugga (10), Choppa (10),

7 x Yoof (30), Slugga (10),

>>52594432
Just say yoofs with whatever x7 or something

>>52594453
>bob with big shoots
>spanner boy with shoota
>yoofs with sluggas

explain.

>>52594319

There. Got it to work.

>>52594453

The idea is to go towards cc of course. Sluggas work as both and can put a lot of lead in the air to buy time to close in. I'm considering having some yoofs have choppas instead, but I haven't settled for a number yet. The Spanna gets a big shoota eventually and the nob will be upgraded to a power klaw. And whenever I need more units I can recruit either a boy or two yoofs.

>>52594523
Yoofs are shit in close combat, give them shootas to lay down some covering fire.

>>52594479
Big choppa on the nob because it's cheap and good, considering nob ws, s and a. Tactic is to let nob advance behind yoof and boyz who shoot while advancing (enough bullets in the air will eventually land hits). Once close enough charge to use ork bonus for charging and do it in groups to use advantage of numbers.

Considering the amount of terrain on a Necromunda board (and we'll use the same amount in our games approximately) there'll be plenty of opportunity to advance in cover or even hiding. If I lose a few units on the way doesn't matter, as long as I get enough of them into cc.

>>52594550
>Yoofs are shit in close combat, give them shootas to lay down some covering fire.

agreed.

-1 WS -1A compared to boys.

>>52594550
It doesn't matter if they're shit. I still get the bonus for ganging up.

>>52594598
>Big choppa
i read big shoot.
my bad.

Can you only purchase 'Recruits' during the post game stuff, or anyone you can afford?

>>52594357
What are basic boxes? Nobz? Boys? Is this in addition to the ones that already come with the game?

>>52594623
You barely even need a bonus with how good boyz are in combat now, pin them down so your other Orks can charge

>>52594625
No worries. I thought you made a typo anyway.

See orks are basically goliaths. You'll want plenty of juves with cheap cc weapons, and slugga can be used in cc as well, while at the same time it makes them semi versatile by being able to shoot a little. They don't have to wound anything. Just hit and pin to buy time to close in and charge.

>>52594682
If you buy another box of boyz you'll have everything you'll ever need.

But, the "nob" will just be a boy with a stick on his back if you dont buy a nob kit, for aesthetics.

>>52594665

Anyone, you'd never be able to replace your specialist otherwise.

>>52594665
Anyone and gear you can afford, but any leftover points are lost.

>>52594453
>Spanner Boy (70), Shoota (25)
spanner boys don't get access to basic weapons

it's pistols and heavy weapons only

>>52594682
The game is designed in part so you can play with just one box. Say for example you want to play Cadians. Then you get all you need in one box of shocktroopers. Geedubs have done this on purpose. This is a gateway game. New players who have just started to collect an army will be able to start playing earlier, or get suckered in more easily because they don't need to buy a full army to start playing. Old players either already have all the models they need, and they also have the option of branching into other armies than the ones they currently play because "those eldars seemed fun. I always wanted to try them" or whatever.

So technically you can play orks with one box. Personally I'd want to get two boxes of orks though. But for most other factions one squad box is enough.

>>52594775
Damn, you're right. Back to the drawing board then.

>>52594720
Mkay, I'm not worried about having a Nob that looks pretty because I don't even know if I like playing Orks. I might pick up a box of boys when I get the game.

>>52594839
But if you have preordered or will be waiting in line to get the boxed game you'll get orks in the box?

>>52594839
Like others have said though, the second hand market for plastic orks have been flooded so the prices are low. So I guess it won't be a lot more expensive to play orks.

>>52594880
Did you not read the previous posts at all?

>>52594820
I can understand dropping the power klaw for some extra bodies, but the big shoota's a good weapon.

And it's not something you want to have to buy later in the campaign thanks to its 150 cost.

>>52594927
Wat

>>52594932
Yeah. You're right. I'll see how I can fit that in there.

>>52594979
>"Hey guys do I need extra units of Orks to be okay in the game?"
>"Yeah just get an extra box of boys."
>"Okay, I might get one then when I get the box."

Then you chime in with the idiotic statement of:
>You get Orks in the box.

>>52594932
So:

Boss Nob (160), Big choppa (15),

Spanner Boy (70), Big shoota (150), Red-dot laser sight (15),

5 x Boy (60), Slugga (10), Choppa (10),

4 x Yoof (30), Slugga (10),

Yoof (30)

That should be 1000 points

>>52595119
That's actually 1020 points, try again.

>>52595107
Haha yeah that was pretty dumb. I misread.

>>52595136
No, it's exactly 1000 points.

>>52595172
Made you look, didn't I? :^)

People who've played already. What faction seems the most broken so far?

>>52595220
douche

>>52595232
mine
yours is trash

>>52595232
terminators seem pretty crazy, but i haven't played for real.

3+ save on 2d6 and immune to pinning.

wish the moved slower so you could kite the or something.

all termies are spec-ops luckily

How are Wyches/DE doing so far? I've been looking for an excuse to pick up a box of Wyches.

>>52595253
Cumgobbler.

>>52595232
I haven't played much, but tomorrow I'm going to a day of Shadow War with my Skitarii team. The couple games I've played already make me think they've retained their"good to excellent, not cheese and has a mix of good and bad options" level from regular 40k. Their"champions of range" status is damn effective.

Orks seem really good, but vulnerable to CC measures and basic problems. Pinning, falling and Break tests are problems, but when they reach effective range they're shoving out so much lead from so many wounds they're hard to stop.

Chaos are decent but slow, and don't take many lucky hits to neuter.

Can't say I saw much of the Cron game, but what I did showed them getting taken apart and stepped on by Big Shootas.

A lot of other teams seem to suffer from massive number or range problems - Tau, GSC and DE are squishy short-ranged on the whole, Nids, GK and to a lesser extent Harlequins are really vulnerable to a good hit, especially the T4 3+ factions where they become overcosted Scouts against a lot of weapons.

No idea where Harlequins will stand at the end of it, but they're probably the most competitive of the elite teams.

>>52595348
They sound strong on paper.

Swarms of strong melee units, good rend, low strength but shred on everything, 4++.

>>52595232
Harlequins and chaos seem to be the thing everyone is afraid of.

>>52594775
Pistols and special weapons. Orks don't into heavy.

>>52593346
Yeah that's what I was trying to say as my response. Apologies for any confusion.

>>52593627
What would you change to make it work for you?

>>52593683
Play a game with them and see how good they are.

>>52594550
I don't get why people keep saying Yoofs are bad in cc. They're... not bad at all? They're not the best but they are actually good.

>>52595232
Necrons seem pretty strong. They just won't die, and their guns kill everything in one hit without much of a problem.

>>52595946
>I don't get why people keep saying Yoofs are bad in cc.
>ws3
>s3
>a1
>i2
>melee race

Explain to me how they're good.

>>52596047
yupp.
better to give them shootas.
if they make it to tropper, buy them slugga and choppa and give the shoota to the new recruits.

WS3 vs WS4
A1 vs A2

I'd wager boys are about twice as good.

>>52596047
30 points
Gets +2 WS on a charge instead of just +1
T4
Can get +1A with a second melee weapon.

Yoofs are still more likely to win in melee against most enemies, you can put them in front of your guys so they get shot first/soak up fire before everyone moves in. If a few die it's no big loss, it's not like losing a 100+ guardsman or a 150+ scout or a 200+ marine of some sort. You know, something far more valuable.

>>52596306
Sounds totally unimpressive compared to hordes 55 or something point yoofs laying down a wall of fire.

>30 points
So are shoota yoofs
>+2
relying totally on them getting the charge and winning in that one round of combat
>t4
so are shoota yoofs
>+1 attack with 2ccw
So can ANYBODY, a guard sargent has three attacks and will beat a yoof in a draw due to his higher initiative.

>>52596444
A Guard Sergeant doesn't have 3 attacks and a yoof is still more likely to win if he charges. the 120+ point sergeant. If the sergeant charges him, which is a dumb idea, and wins: oh look now his leader is surrounded by more orks.

I mean sure take them with shootas if you want, they're still good in melee anyway, it's just a little more erratic with only one attack dice instead of two.

Also bear in mind you probably wouldn't charge just one yoof in, and you only get +1 attack from another ccw or pistol as long as the model isn't holding a lasgun or bolter or special/heavy weapon of some kind.

>>52596531
A guard Sargent has three attacks.
>assuming the yoof gets the charge
>assuming the other Orks aren't pinned/panic from being shot at by an entire team of guardsmen but because you have nothing to pin them

>>52596531
that might be true.
but you get all that minus the one attack if you have the shoota.

>>52596610
.... It has 1 under the A characteristic?

You can hide your orks so they can't be shot at?

You better be playing on maps with like, a lot of terrain, otherwise you're not doing it properly.

Look I struggled to pin more than 1-3 necrons in one turn with all of my men shooting and throwing grenades. You won't have that much of a problem with pinning as long as you push forward in the right way. If you just sit back at long range sustained firing at guys in cover, most of the time it's not going to work out very well.

>>52596680
What?
He has the same as regular 40k, 2 attacks + 2ccw bonus for laspistol and chainsword, right?

>>52596822
I mean... no? You can check the rules in the OP post if you want. He has 1 attack, 2 if you give him an extra ccw or pistol and no two handed weapons.

More attacks aren't that big of a deal here anyway, you just take the highest dice roll of the attacks and that's your score for close combat.