Stannis Baratheon

>>52581467
For one, he'd likely still have a head, so would actually be a head of state.

>>52581467
If he had someone competent in the shady bullshit of courts then he'd do great. As long as there was someone taking out the other dirty players, most likely without Stannis knowing given that he'd have him executed, then he'd do fine.

It is also his position by right.

>>52581467
No. Westeros need Daenerys Targaryen. She's a wise and competent leader.

>>52581467
His rule would be awfully short given his lack of decision-making power in a crisis. Sometimes he just loses his head.

>>52581670
Thanks anon, my sides are in orbit.

Depends how much force he had behind him. If he actually ended up with dragons and dependable fire magic backing him up he'd clean up the kingdom, forging into a rigid empire free of high level corruption.

In any scenario where he doesn't have overwhelming force he eventually gets overthrown by everyone else.

>>52581718
He's always the fucking underdog but he just keeps going. I like the man.

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>I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?

>>52581902
Stannis was a serious badass all things considered.

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>>52581467
King Stannis the Stern ruled Westeros with wise council. He was neither mad, fat, or cruel. Wildfire may have burned his fleet, but with sword he still took King's Landing and sent a wounded lion back west. Then the lords bent the knee. Those who didn't would.
When the Dragon Queen came he smashed her barbarian horde driving them back into the sea. Her dragons ill trained fled from the rain arrows laid down by the Rivermen. She bent the knee as all did. The Red Witch annulled the King's marriage and presided over his second.
When the others climbed the wall they met dragon fire and a well drilled military. Dragonstone had been mined and obsidian tipped every lance and arrow.
He annihilated the Iron Fleet, tore Pike apart brick by brick, and burned the drowned king.
Sure he had to default on the Iron Bank, but then he sacked it.
Every rich lordling in the land came for his daughter's scaled hand, instead he tied his house to the Starks for the debt he owed their father.
For thirty years he ruled. When he was old and grey a chill took him. He'd brought the true faith, guarded the realm, filled the coffers, and the law stood strong under him. His son, Stannis Baratheon second of his name, succeeded him. Stag and Dragon ruled for another 200 years.

>>52581670
kek

>>52581902
My heart be still.

>>52581467
Well, Renly wasn't wrong about his brother. Nobody wants him as a king. His rule would be 'correct' by the laws that be, but horribly rigid to the point of grimness. Think Judge Dredd's Mecacity. People, even when good and well meaning, would die over small mistakes. The Wall would see many of its castles filled with soldiers, and the royalty would be forced into frugality in order to pay back the Iron Bank. That's how I'd see it, at least.

>>52582003
Stannis fanboy detected.

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My blade is pledged to Stannis, but even I know even if he's not going to have the same retarded downfall arc from GoT, he's definitely not getting the throne. BookStannis is, objectively, the best guy for the job, but Martin isn't going to just hand the throne off to a non-PoV character. Best case scenario, he puts aside his white-hot entitlement to the throne (unlikely), takes the Black, and settles with defending the realm over ruling it.

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>>52582057
Remember. George R.R. Martin doesn't write cliches. So the thought of Jon or Daenerys taking the thrones is nil. It's him who's going to take the throne as most fantasy books he critiques is always about how the young people who have no idea of ruling are kings or queens.

>>52582016
>Renly wasn't wrong about his brother. Nobody wants him as a king. His rule would be 'correct' by the laws that be
With the Onion Knight as Hand I don't think it would be that bad. He'd also appoint people who were actually useful to high positions rather than fill them with ignorant yes men. So a short Lannister may still end up as Master of Coin.
>Wall would see many of its castles filled with soldiers
Fucking needs to be.
>forced into frugality in order to pay back the Iron Bank
There are a few ways that could play out. (Stannis's court would seem spartan compared to others anyway.) Either he'd take the Lannister gold and pay back the loans. Or more likely he'd be forced to default and have to fight a war with the Iron Bank. Which could end well with taking their money, or badly with Westeros being divided and sold off.

>>52582026
I can't help liking the best.

Stannis lacks charisma. Without charisma, he cannot win the good faith of anybody. His actions would come off as cold, robotic, and uncaring. The people of Westeros would be too stupid to appreciate his governance and will eventually rally behind a populist figure who aims to overthrow him.

>>52581902
STANNIS THE MANNIS

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>>52581902
Clearly, you haven't heard of Ramsay's twenty good men

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>>52582506
Isn't he the Blood King

>>52582131

But thats the point of their plot developments. Jon learned how to run a military organization of cockgobblers from scratch against all odds, while Daenerys learned how to stop being a political tool and to be a political player instead. The world itself is grooming the two for governance roles. They're not perfect by any means, but they've come quite far from where they first started.

>>52582758
The real kicker would be if Dany ends up as the insane tyrant by the end of everything.

>>52582776
She is heading there.

The Others will just kill everbody because everobody else has failed to prepare for the coming invasion.

>>52582135
>With the Onion Knight as Hand
It's been a while since I read the books but isn't Onion Knight dead?
I faintly remember there was something.

>>52583119
Nah he's in the north trying to win lords to Stannis's side.

>>52583119
The Manderly killed him to curry favor for house Bolton

>>52583161
Yep. The Mandeeley's are absolutely loyal to the Boltons, Freys, and Lannisters. And even if they weren't just happy to see stability in Westwood again, Ser Wyman is too dim and cowardly to do anything about it.

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>>52583161
>>52583236

>>52582057
If Ned Stark had lived and sided with Stannis. How different would the outcome be?

>>52583119
Yes, the Onion Knight was slain by the brave Manderly family for defying the honorable house Bolton. Truly they are loyal servants to the crown and nothing more.

>>52583039
lies

we need a house creation thread, it had been so long

>>52581659
>It is also his position by right
How much that really matter? Robert's claim to the throne was almost entirely earned through military force when he rebelled against the already "rightful" rulers; sure they had some relation to the Targs to help justify things but that was more of an afterthought in the grand scheme of it all. Not to mention THEIR claim to the throne came about from them invading and taking over Westeros in Aegon's days. Conquest is ultimately the true royal decider.

Would the setting make more sense if the Targareyns named themselves emperors of Westeros instead of Kings?

>>52581467
But he died, he can't be the king anymore

>>52584165
He didn't die in the books.

Stannis as we see him in the Winds of Winter extracts could actually be a great king. He's still got the positive qualities he started out with, but has learnt some compromise to keep the disparate factions of his host together. The main issue, other than potentially being murdered early on in his reign for purging the court of traitors and incompetents would be that he'd be the first Red God worshipping king, with the burning of religious forests that entails. He'd be hated for that, even though R'hllor actually does stuff and is demonstrably supernatural, and therefore useful.

>>52584300
Are you sure? I am reading the Game of Thrones: Adapted from the popular TV series

>>52584314
This has to be bait

>>52583439
>Knowing something isn't quite right on the eve of Robert's death, Ned tells his bannermen to keep on their toes and form up separate from the goldcloaks as he enters the throne room
>When the predictable betrayal occurs, superior Northern steel wins the day, and Ned Stark takes the throne room by force, imprisoning all who survive the violence
>King's Landing suffers a period of anarchy, as the Starks are too few in number to take charge of the city from the remaining goldcloaks and must seal themselves in the keep to await help
>Ravens reach the chambers of Robb Stark and Stannis Baratheon, informing them of the deteriorating situation in King's Landing. The two lords gather their banners and march south.
>Tywin Lannister learns of the situation as well, and realizes that his only chance to establish control is to capture King's Landing before the other forces arrive
>The Lannister forces reach King's Landing first, taking the city streets and besieging the Keep.
>The remaining Starks are too few in number to win the battle, but Tywin knows he will have trouble consolidating his power without the "King," and stalls for as much time as possible
>On the march south, Stannis' forces are met by an unexpected road block. What they thought were reinforcements from the true King's younger brother are actually an opposing force
>As Stannis knows he has more allies coming from the North, he elects not to use the Red Witch's magic to assassinate his brother, and meets him on the battlefield instead
>The battle draws on far longer than anyone could have anticipated, likely due to the suspicious increase in funding Renly has been enjoying to supplement his banners with mercenaries
>For weeks the two armies clash and withdraw on the same field, the struggling wills of the two brothers manifesting itself in the seemingly endless tenacity by which they throw their forces at one another.

[more things happen too but im done]

>>52582131
GRRM does writes cliches. He is just good in hiding them. The number of PoV characters in his story is there to disguise the fact that there are clear cut protagonists from the beginning.

They are both underdogs who goes through a coming of age journey, and also the classic heroes Journey. They are both linked by blood to Old Valyria and dragons, which GRRM has a huge boner for. While every other character is the book died for their political or strategical mistakes, Danerys and Jon survive and thrive. Fair to say, Jon got killed, but only as a covenient loop hole to be dismissed from the nightwatch without being disohonorable. Melisandre is a walking Deus Ex Machina.

Stannis is good for the Kingdom, he is what the kingdom needs really, a leader that will enforce the law of the land and that will have little tolerance for the underhanded petty politics that lead to the civil war in the first place. He is capable of using underhand himself, like he did with his brother and to take storm's end, but only when he believe it's the best for the kingdom as a whole. And that's how we know he's never gonna sit on the throne.

>>52581670
she's better in the books desu

>>52581902
[Bending the Knee Intensifies]

>>52582776
She did drop in the middle of a region whole most important economic activity was slavery and then, before having an army, decided to end it. She became queen of a city whose culture she wouldn't understand, and that led to one bloodbath after another, on both sides. It's also stated that the cities she 'freed' didn't end up well. One returned to the slaver's hand following a bloody civil conflict and the other was taken over by a former gladiator warlord.

Then, according to the show, she massacred the leader of the dothraki so now you have this girl who see her worldview and beliefs as being the most important thing ever, worth thousand of lives, in charge of a murder-raping horde of mongols.

If Daenerys doesn't turn into a tyrant, I'd be surprised.

>>52584937
>superior Northern steel

One Northman is worth ten Southenmen

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>>52581670

>>52583687
Rebellion was probably rightful and just thing.

Most of medieval kingdoms had some "right to rebel"(ius resistendi) against unjust king(Mad king definitely fits) that lost god's blessing and so right to rule.
It even made way into the US constitution I think.
If my memory serves me right it was first described by saint Thomas Aquinas in his "De regno".

>>52581467
He'd honestly be a pretty unpopular king.
Not because he's not personable, but because he's no inflexible about so many things that the grey areas and vagueries of ruling wouldn't jive with him. People would run circles around him politically (because he doesn't have a subtle bone in his body), but if he ever discovered them then he'd smash them with an army and make himself even MORE unpopular.

Stannis doesn't seem to grasp the basic rule of all politics; rules are not there for politicians to follow, they're there to find as many ways to bend or go around without getting caught as they can possibly get away with.

>>52585169
>Most of medieval kingdoms had some "right to rebel"
>It even made way into the US constitution I think.
>it was first described by saint Thomas Aquinas in his "De Regno".
None of those looks like they say "Westeros".

The debate itself is whatever, not my cup of tea but some people enjoy it, so let them have their fun I guess, but it seems like the argument should focus on things actually known to be in the lore.

>>52585091
Kinda?
In the books it's made very apperant that is is well-meaning, but unfortunately doesn't have a single example in her entire short life of what a "good" (or even competent) ruler actually looks like and nobody around her is willing to teach her without manipulating her to their ends.
So she just wings it as she goes and predictably it ends up horrible because she didn't have the learning or the guidance.

She's an incredibly charismatic leader in the sense that it's easy for her to gather people to her side and adore her at a near-worshipful level, but being a leader isn't the same thing as being an actually good ruler...and she definitely isn't one.

>>52585232
>but unfortunately doesn't have a single example in her entire short life of what a "good" (or even competent) ruler actually looks like
Like that time she freed a bunch of slaves only for them to be trapped in a city being hunted every night with their only employment prospects being to continue working for her?

Hodor would be a better fuckin' ruler.

>>52585211
Westeros has no constitution, so the letter of the law seems to really just be whatever you can get away with.
This is especially true because it has no actual feudal heirarchy; without a system of Dukes and Counts and Marquis and what-have-you, technically every Lord in Westeros that isn't the King or a Lord Paramount is legally the equal of every other Lord despite massive differences in practical position and power between many houses.

This is probably why there's so much infighting in a small scale in the country; since you have legal authority to control whatever you can manage to hold rather then a specific something allotted to you by your specific aristocratic title the political situation between the different lords is basically just a free-for-all under a thin veneer of politeness.

>>52581467
Mannis as the iron king, the onion knight as his velvet glove. It would be a dull, boring, lawful, extremely stable reign.

>>52585246
He could, if someone did not fuck his timeline

>>52585262
See, that was a much more convincing argument. As someone who reads the books and doesn't really care whose ass is on the chair at the end I lied, no Dany please[/spoilers] That's a pretty convincing argument.

>>52585278
>that spoiler
Just fucking kill me now, lord

>>52582016
In other words, he would be the fairest, wisest, most successful king in 500 years.

>>52585246
Exactly.
Dany has the POTENTIAL to be a good ruler (she's clearly willing to actively listen to supplicants and clearly tries very hard to be "fair"), but she has almost no sense for politics or political consequences because she equates "doing the right thing" with "being a good ruler", when in fact ruling is much more complicated then that.

Jon is actually turning out to be a better ruler (his decisions since becoming Lord Commander are smart and rational ones, but there's enough retards on the Wall that "ice zombie apocalypse takes precedence over fighting Stone Age barbarians" isn't a plain enough fact for them) but much like his dad he definitely lacks in charisma compared to others; he can rule but not LEAD, while Dany can lead but not RULE.

Reminder that there won't be iron throne at the end, and there probably won't be dragons either.

>>52585293
No, actually.
Read the timeline. There's no less then four examples of Targs like that and they're basically failures because real life isn't painted in shades of black and white.

He'd honestly make a better fucking Ironborn King because then his social laws are reduced to the binary decision of "Rape and Pillage" or "Do Not Rape and Pillage" and their entire culture is actually okay with that.

>>52583687
Robert was blood-related to the Targaryens.

>>52585169
I'd say there's no doubt whatsoever that the rebellion was pretty much an objectively right thing to do and best option for Westeros, but if anything your examples just stress how arbitrary the idea of a "rightful" ruler can be.

>>52585334
Even characters in the book say that the reason Robert's ass was on the iron throne wasn't because of his Targ blood. Ned or Jon Arryn could be kings as well, if they wished.

>>52585334
This is accurate.
His grandmother was a Targaryen (one of Egg's daughters as a point of fact) and if you go far back enough old Orys Baratheon himself was probably a bastard half-brother to Aegon the Conqueror, though neither ever openly acknowledged it.

>>52583687
Right to rule underlies the legitimacy of any regime and precludes constant murderfests. If you want to see what happens when an Empire has no system of succession, look at the decline of Rome.

Really, Robert did have a claim, but he would have been better-served to dissolve the kingdom entirely and make a new one in its place, arguing that the Dragon was dead and the savagery of the last Dragon King invalidated his rule.

>>52585091
She's "better in the books" in that she's much more obviously becoming a bad guy and the writer isn't making excuses for her atrocities and acting like they're all a-okay!

>>52585354
But every other character is also much more flawed. Jon brought the mutiny upon himself because of his rigidness, it wasn't because "muh racism", and Tyrion murdered Shae unprovoked and fantasized about raping and murdering Cersei, repeatedly.

>>52585354
First of all, the only excuses Gurm has ever given for anything is why he hasn't written more.
He's never bothered defending Dany and the ENTIRE storyline with her in the last book is everything she supposedly "accomplished" completely fucking falling apart, so clearly she's not winning or doing so great.

Actually, ADWD was mostly just the "yes, shit CAN get worse for Dany, Jon, Asha, and Tyrion" book.

>>52585370
he had the Lannister incest gene

>>52585370
Dany's judgement is awful, and her ability to evaluate a person's character is worse i(EVERYTHING with Ben Plumm, who Tyrion pegged as a rat bastard within one sentence of speaking to him is a good example, not to mention her "husband" guy), and last but not least her truly atrocious temper problems.

She's a teenager with no idea how to rule and it shows in the actual writing.

>>52585374
That's not true. The whole book, Dany was a succesful ruler - she arranged an important marriage, stopped Harpy's terrorism and nearly made peace with the people of Meereen - all with little sacrifices.
However, in the very end she decides "Wait, no, fuck it. Compromise and diplomacy are too hard - fire and blood!", and that's the real tragedy here. She decides that becoming a ruthless tyrant is more satisfying, so she does it.

>>52585300
So they marry, split duties, place a representative council of those who have proven themselves competent advisors from their loyalist factions, absorb any desirable elements of the old government that can be swayed by "you keep your old job, just answer to a different boss" and boom.

>>52585404
>she arranged an important marriage
To the guy leading the Sons of the Harpy, not realizing he led the Sons of the Harpy, and not questioning when he came out of nowhere to save the day.
>stopped Harpy's terrorism
By marrying their leader.
>and nearly made peace with the people of Meereen
By marrying the guy who was leading the group they supported.

Dany was in an impossible situation of completely her own making, but yeah; her decisions were complete horseshit. Hizdar-lo...fuck I hate Ghiscari names, LITERALLY tried to poison her at their wedding and then undid everything she did the goddamn minute she seemed to die.

Are you incapable of reading subtext?

>>52585300
She doesn't even "do the right thing" half the time. She does a lot of horrible things because she's angry.
The only reason she doesn't just look like another Joffrey or Mad King Aerys to us is because we're in her head and can understand her justifications for shit like genocide or crucifying dozens and dozens of people

>>52581902
>M-my knees are bending on their own, Stannis-kun

>>52585409
Pretty much.
Also, I suspect that they will NOT like each other during the course of the books, based on the prophecy she got about three husbands.
Gurm has mentioned he dislikes straightforward happy endings (in a way Robert's entire background is about showing how stories don't just "end" when they reach and appropriate climax and you have to deal with the afterwords too), so I think Jon and Dany will marry largely out of political necessity.

The hopeful spot will be pointed out that Ned and Cat also didn't love each other at first either, but over the years eventually grew to.

>>52585370
Neither of which hold a candle to the horrors Dany has committed: genocide, murder, crucifixion, torture. She's Mad King 2.0, now with DRAGONS instead of just wildfire.

>>52585446
Pretty much. She's a teenager and it shows, and she has a temper and that shows even more.
Ironically, I think if Barristan grew a fucking pair and just acted as an actual advisor instead of habitually running away from politics (which according to himself is a serious problem he's had his entire life) she'd be a lot more successful, but Selmy offers advise ONLY when promoted and even then he kinda seems uncomfortable with it.
In his mind he should just be a Kingsguard and nothing else.

>>52585435
Dany should have just had all the nobility of Mereen executed. They seem to work a lot like the native Emirati: a purely consumer class of durkas.

>>52585481
If CK2 has taught me anything marriage is about picking complementary traits and hoping for a good son while being limited to gene pools you have conflict with in order to create stable relations.

>>52585435
>To the guy leading the Sons of the Harpy
No, you retard, he's probably not even the member of the Sons.
>By marrying their leader.
That would be pretty hard, since their leader is Galazza Galare. Essos is not THIS progressive.
>By marrying the guy who was leading the group they supported.
When you're ruling and opressing foreign people with your culture, you either have to be absolutely ruthless, or you have to make compromises like this.
>Poison
That was not Hizdahr, that was Skahaz mo Kandaq. He did it because he did not like the arranged peace, it threatened his position and rise to power.

Are YOU incapable of reading subtext?

>>52585370
>Tyrion murdered Shae unprovoked
She cucked him with his dad, if I remember correctly, plus she lied about him at his trial.

>>52585489
No, Aerys was actually insane.
Read the world book. Serious case of bipolar disorder later combined with severe paranoid delusions, some of which MIGHT have been exacerbated by Varys in what seems to be the longest long con of all time so far.

Dany is just a child, and that's the problem. I imagine you did some dumb shit you regretted later as a teenager too assuming you had even a remotely normal childhood of course?
Now imagine your dumb shit teenager mistakes is actual law because you're a ruler and you see how the consequences to everything she does get do wildly out of hand.

That's why Maester Aemon told Jon to "kill the boy", like he told Egg once upon a time; you CANNOT be a child when you are being a ruler. There's too much at stake and too many consequences to it. Dany herself has never had that explained to her.

>>52585534
Which makes it understandable, but not right. And let's not forget about this whole prostitute thing, since Tyrion essentially bought her love with money.

>>52581628
He'd have a clear vision of where everything is headed.

>>52585525
That wouldn't really have solved her problem of a nonexistent economic base and trying to run a culture that doesn't want her. What she SHOULD have done is taken the Unsullied and fight her way clear of Ghis and then fucking LEFT.

Or better yet; taken the Dornish offer to head home, but nope, she REALLY wanted to keep playing messiah.

>>52585595
Here's what she really needed.
>Get unsullied
>March to Yunkaii
>When they offer her a shitton of gold just so she would not siege the city, accept
>Buy ships
>Swim to Pentos, reunite with Illyrio
With unsullied, dragons and the golden company all combined, she would be literally unstoppable.

>>52584300
Ramsays letter to Snow says otherwise. Likely, his twenty good men killed him and massacred his army.

>>52585622
Ramsay is a liar

>>52585622
>Implying the pink letter was written by Ramsay
It's pretty much common knowledge that it was Mance Rayder who wrote it.

>>52585566
I was more talking about the "unprovoked" term than whether or not he was right. He was wrong, but he was provoked as fuck.

>>52585621
She really would, though there's the problem of Connington's slighted pride; he basically convinced Young Griff NOT to go with Dany partially because he hated the idea of his plan that he'd been working with on for last 19 years to avenge the guy he had a raging homolust for being ruined by Dany showing up with dragons out of freaking nowhere. Young Griff likely didn't take much convincing mind you, as he seemed pretty annoyed about the whole thing himself.

That said, going back to Illyrio and getting the Golden Company wouldn't really be on Dany's agenda because she didn't know about that plan and only knew Illyrio as "he literally sold me once".

>>52585622
Oh come on.
Are you the type of reader that thinks Victarion Greyjoy is intelligent just because he doesn't think of himself as an idiot in his own chapters?

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>>52585693
>Victarion.
That guy is as dumb as a fencepost.
It's really something else when this fucking comic is in no way exaggerating what happens and how he reacts to shit.

>>52585566
It was a business exchange, and Tyrion was more than generous with her.

She repaid his largesse by lying under oath with the understanding that this would lead to his murder, all to pull a bigger paycheck from a more important Lannister. She got exactly what she deserved.

>>52585765
>t. /r9k/ poster

>>52585765
>Business exchange
>No legally binding Contract
>Got a better offer and took it
I don't think you get how this shit works my dude

>>52585796
Finally! I have been waiting ages for the greatest of houses in the Reach to get their week. The true lords of Highgarden that continue the struggle to depose the Tyrell pretenders, and the most loyal of houses to the one true king of Westeros, Stannis Baratheon.

I feel it best to highlight the awesomeness of this house by detailing its many distinguished members.

Selyse Florent: The One True Queen of Westeros, the lovely Selyse is a devoutly religious woman of the strongest moral standing. Unlike every other woman calling herself "Queen" in Westeros, she alone isn't being tried for being a whore.

Axell Florent: A MAN OF THE WORLD and the Hand to the One True Queen of Westeros. Axell is a noble and dependable man that is loved and envied by all around him. Currently betrothed to the oldest daughter of Gerrick Kingsblood, thus giving him royal ties to the Wildlings as well.

Imry Florent: Bravely led Stannis's fleet into the Battle of the Blackwater. Surely died early in the fight due to treachery, because all agree the outcome would have been far different otherwise.

Alester Florent: He temporarily lost the faith, and to repent, he willingly allowed himself to be burnt alive in order to provide Stannis's fleet with strong winds to reach the Wall in time and stop Mance Rayder. The NW and the entire realm is in his eternal debt.

Colin Florent: After the Battle of the Blackwater, the illborn pretender to the throne Joffrey claimed that House Florent was "attainted" and had the audacity to name Garlan Tyrell as Lord of Brightwater Keep. Well, three books later and pompous sellout opportunist jerkoff Garlan has yet to set foot in Brightwater Keep, because Colin Florent has been holding it down like a BOSS. Keep in mind that he is literally surrounded by enemies on all sides. Let them come, his sword THIRSTS.

>>52585819
Alekyne Florent: Current Lord of Brightwater Keep, Alekyne is currently in Old Town, plotting his next move with the Hightowers. Make no mistake, he isn't "hiding," he is "planning" something. Planning something big. Do not underestimate the cunning of the fox!

Samwell Tarly: Literally every one of his positive attributes come from his Florent blood. I here he's a pretty smart cookie.

Melessa Tarly: A loving mother stuck with a douche of a husband. Sam is convinced that he can send Gilly and her baby to his home and they will be cared for, solely due to his mother. Given who his father is, that speaks volumes as to how awesome Melessa is.

Edric Storm: A fine young lad, eternally noble and proud. Showed eternal respect and love towards his father, even though his father was a prick that didn't care about him at all.

Shireen Baratheon: The heir to the throne, Princess Shireen is pure innocence and a true delight for the realm.

The nameless Florent bastard that refused to bend his knee to Joffrey after the Battle of the Blackwater and said right to his face that Stannis would be back and would totally kick his ass: This man was a legend. Eternal respect.

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>>52585844
I could go on for days as to the glory of House Florent, but I'll summarize some key points:

House Florent loyally followed Stannis Baratheon despite being totally surrounded by enemies in the Reach as a result. That's how much their faith means to them. This wasn't just because Selyse was married to him, and it wasn't just because his was the true claim: The pretenders on the throne spread ridiculous rumors about Selyse cheating on her husband with Patchface. The Florents defend their own, and will not tolerate such slander and disgraceful behavior!

House Florent has a badass sigil. Seriously, that fox runs circles around the Tyrell rose for free.

The Tyrells are a bunch of know-it-all pretty boys/girls that think they are the golden children of Westeros. The Florents are the scrappy underdogs that straight up have a better claim to Highgarden than these pompous jerks. How can you not root for them to knock the Tyrells down a peg or two?

While everyone is busy playing the game of thrones, House Florent's primary concern right now is dealing with the REAL enemy: The Others. This makes them part of a very very select few houses that actually GIVES A DAMN ABOUT WHAT MATTERS.

They are one of the biggest houses that we don't actually know the motto of yet! They are mysterious, that's awesome. Whatever their House words are, I guarantee they are better than "Growing Strong."

In closing: Screw Randyll Tarly. Screw the Tyrells. Screw the current pretenders on the throne. Screw The Others. Haters gonna hate. All hail the true Lords of the Reach!

I'm a knight in service to the Lannisters of Casterly Rock, are they good bosses? Can I use my own personal helmet instead of these silly, side way ones? I have a sister but I don't want to fuck her, are they offended by this?

>>52585796
So she was a pay-by-job employee. Tell me, when you find a better job offer, does that entitle you to help murder your old boss to get it? You figure your boss might try to kill you back when your attempt fails?

>>52585775
Only a tumblrina could be so stupid they think murdering someone for money is okay as long as he was a dude.

>>52585955
>Arguing morality in "Kill them all and let god sort it out" the book series
...are you retarded? Serious question, because no one in these books has ever really been morally in the right.

Ok, Ed maybe but look where that got him.

Argue she was a bad person for trying to kill the little idiot all you want, but she was just playing the same game every other character was playing, she just got unlucky.

>>52586008
Hell, I'm not the one that was acting as if he did something immoral. Your stance makes my argument even easier. She betrayed him, he repaid her.

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>>52586035
>Only a tumblrina could be so stupid they think murdering someone for money is okay as long as he was a dude.
I'm not the one posting with some not-so-subtle subtext, but your hatred of women is your own deal, I guess.

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>>52586049
>someone tries to have you murdered
>Kill them in revenge for their murderous betrayal

(You)'re the moron arguing that this was somehow dubious of Tyrion, and that any view to the contrary is /r9k/.

>>52586049

not that anon, but seriously, put those goalposts back where you found them.

>>52585906
They don't use silly side helmets.
They use regular helmets.

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>>52586201
Looks silly to me

>>52586246
Those are only in the show. No one uses those dumb fucking things in the books.

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>>52585819
>>52585844
>>52585887
Are they /ourhouse/?

>>52586284
stupid knights with their jousting and page

>>52582506
>>52582733
Literally "PSSSH...NOTHING PERSONELL": The Character

>>52585720
He has low cunning

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>>52581670
>Daenerys Targaryen. She's a wise and competent leader.

>>52586640
He has no cunning. The only reason he's alive at all is, Moqorro tells him what to do.

>>52586773
Lies the ironborn are the most powerful race in westeros

Fuck now I want to reread. Takes so much time though.

>>52587054
skip all the Dany and Arya chapter

>>52587078
But arya chapters are my favorite. And dany has cool moments (except once she reaches meeran it becomes unbearable)

>>52587100
Dany chapters become much better once you're aware of what's going on.
Galazza Galare = the Harpy
Hizdahr = Galazza's goon
Shavepate = Essos!LIttlefinger, poisons the locusts

When you keep in mind, most innocent things done by those characters instantly become sinister.

>>52587321
their names are harder to rmb than ISIS

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Sansa and Stannis were my favourite characters amongst the books. Coincidentally, they are the ones the show decided to butcher.
Sansa especially is universally hated amongst the show fans, and for a good reason - the writers removed her every good moment and turned her into an unlikable bitch.
I could forgive marrying her to Ramsay, if they at least kept true to her character, but they didn't. Every episode she gets a new personality, one more bitchy than the other, culminating in feeding a man to dogs.

If there's literally anybody in this thread who believes that book Sansa would feed a man to dogs, please raise your hands.

>>52587321
Fuck I forget these names. Maybe that's why it was so confusing

>>52587382
Show sansa is ruined. If GRRM kills her in book he's a retard.

>>52583327
Anyone remember thinking the Manderlys were fags at the beginning? That they would surely be the cowards that broke or somehow betrayed the other Northmen?

Then they turned into literally the most hardcore badasses imaginable. I love Manderly almost as much as the Onion Knight.

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>>52584314
kek.
>yfw this is what actually happens after GRRM dies of a massive stroke before finishing his books.

>>52587496
I think some other author will pick it up after him. Isn't it a common practice?

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A Lannister Frey bastard Bolton household maester and oathbreaker was teaching a class on Joffrey, a known usurper.
"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship King Joffrey and accept that he was the most rightful king the realm has ever known, even greater than Aegon the Conqueror!"
At this moment, a brave, patriotic, pro-Stannis Night's Watch ranger who had served 1500 tours of duty and understood the necessity of war against the Others and fully supported all military decision made by his grace stood up and held up a sword.
“What are the Baratheon features?”
The arrogant maester smirked quite Freyishly and smugly replied "Black hair, blue eyes and square jawlines, you stupid red cultist."
"Yes. If Joffrey was the trueborn son of King Robert, as you say… then he would've had black hair and blue eyes. Stannis is the true king! A monster sits the Iron Throne, an abomination born of incest!"
The maester was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of The Lineages and Histories of the Great Houses of the Seven Kingdoms. He stormed out of the room crying those Lannister crocodile tears.
There is no doubt that at this point our maester, Tyrone Rivers, wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than a traitorous maester. He wished so much that he wanted to take the black to save himself from embarrassment, but he himself had petitioned against sending men to the wall!
The novices applauded and all pledged allegiance to House Baratheon of Dragonstone that day and accepted Azor Ahai as their lord and savior. A flaming stag named "The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors" galloped into the room and shed a tear on the fallen Baratheon banner. The vow of the Night's Watch was read several times, and R'hllor himself showed up and enacted a flat tax rate across the kingdom.
The maester lost his chain and was fired the next day. He died of the grey plague and was tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity.
Ours is the Fury.

Is Red God based on Islam?

>>52587657
No.

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>>52587556
For a man whom many people claim have no charisma. He sure inspires loyalty.

>>52587657
Its based on some middle eastern religion but not Islam

Why the Northmen speak Common even though they resist the Andal invasion?

>>52588068
Why does everyone speak english

>>52588156
they dont even talk to each other in First Men

>>52588026

Zoroastrianism, quite possibly?

>>52588068
Bitches gotta communicate.

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>>52581467
Ah, finally I get a chance to take this pic out for a spin.

>>52590813

Even has a sea base. Just need to burn a Baratheon bastard to get his own (living) WMD.

>>52587382

Well, I mean in the books she's helping to poison a weak, pathetic boy to death so maybe. Almost certainly not in the "yaas slay kween!" stupid way she does in the show though.

>>52587803

And for a man whom many people claim is charismatic, Renly sure inspires absolutely none.

>>52587657
Not even remotely.
It actually much more strongly resembles something you'd see in a Conan story rather then anything realistic.
>>52587803
None of these people have met anyone like him in real life and thus don't have to deal with the consequences of working with them.
Also, it must be said that probably half or more of the people on here are already social outcastes and societal rejects already and thus they don't have a firm grasp of "normal" interactions and empathize with his near-autistic behaviors.

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>>52581670

If stannis is the one true king....... the why isn't he a lannister?
Stannis fags fucking rekt

>>52592322
>lannister
Inbred failures need not apply.

>>52587018
>most powerful race in Westeros
>BTFO by literally everyone anytime they try to start shit

ok anon

>>52587018
>implying that isn't the firstmen

>>52592841
>>52593289
I her grandpa greyjoy was grea
T

>>52591035
Speak for yourself niggertits, I work on the sales force for a Fortune 500 company, networking is literally my job. I just enjoy shitposting.

>>52587382
>sansa
fuck off

>>52585370
>Tyrion murdered Shae unprovoked and fantasized about raping and murdering Cersei, repeatedly.
>fantasized about raping and murdering Cersei, repeatedly.
Really?

And I mean... have you not?

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>>52594209
>Cersei
That old hag?

>>52593896
You're either a showfaggot, or one of those idiots who think that Sansa chapters only exist to give us a PoV for Littlefinger's schemes. I don't know which one is worse.

>>52595312
sansa chapters exist to be skipped

>>52587541
Nope. He said if he died, the Tv series would be the one to finish the whole series

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You have always presumed on my forbearance,” Stannis warned Davos when they were alone. “I can shorten your tongue as easy as I did your fingers, smuggler.”

“I am your man, Your Grace. So it is your tongue, to do with as you please.”

“It is,” he said, calmer. “And I would have it speak the truth. Though the truth is a bitter draught at times. Aerys, if you only knew… that was a hard choosing. My blood or my liege. My brother or my king.” He grimaced. “Have you ever seen the Iron Throne? The barbs along the back, the ribbons of twisted steel, the jagged ends of swords and knives all tangled up and melted? It is not a comfortable seat, ser. Aerys cut himself so often men took to calling him King Scab, and Maegor the Cruel was murdered in that chair. By that chair, to hear some tell it. It is not a seat where a man can rest at ease. Ofttimes I wonder why my brothers wanted it so desperately.”

“Why would you want it, then?” Davos asked him.

“It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert’s heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son.” He ran three fingers lightly down the table, over the layers of smooth hard varnish, dark with age. “I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes, there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done, after the Trident.

What did he mean by this?

Who would win in a Battle? Tywin or Stannis

>>52596413
That HE IS THE ONE TRUE KING!

>>52596413
>But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done, after the Trident.
That the (((Eunuchs))) and other (((traitors))) would get their fucking just desserts.

>>52596545
One on one? Tywin is a skilled administrator and strategist, but Stannis is a warrior that wields the very sword of God.

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>>52596545
What are the troop numbers? Field? Supply lines? sub-commanders? etc?

>>52581670
Anyone else hoping Dany and Snow get wedded and rule together?

>>52597262
He doesn't though, it's a fake held up by the red woman

>>52597274
>What are the troop numbers
Same Number of Troops for both Armies.

Field?
One that doesn't give a distinct advantage to one or the other.

Supply lines?
Travel by water if not Then by land. However if One set up a supply line by land then they would need to
Leave soldiers behind to guard these valuable supplies, patrols set up, and a quartermaster would remain to manage the logistics.

sub-commanders?
Same as in the books.

etc?
Explain?

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>>52581902
>Wise
>Just
>Austere
>Minimal
>Plentiful, no circuses only bread

He is the best choice of all his brothers.

>>52597333
Even still, a dope flaming sword ain't nothing to fuck with.

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>>52583119
>Onion Knight dead
And lo, the inexplicably only Geordie in the whole of Westros dies

>>52597543
but anon, that's not Jon Snow.

>>52583161
Didn't they hint that Onion didn't actually die though/that it was a fake out?

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>>52585142
>Colded 10,000 times

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>>52597582
Recant that now or face the Fire.

>>52597596
I'm howling désu

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>>52597433
Okay then lets assume they are commanding their armies from the Battle of Blackwater. Somehow Stannis takes the city with light casualties and Tywin arrives late with no Tyrell support.. Stannis has around 20,000 men and Tywin the same. Stannis' army is pretty lopsided with 16,000 cavalry, 5,000 heavy foot, not enough archers note however(He was storming a city). Meanwhile the Lannister army is more balanced. The books say it is a third cavalry. Lets assume the remainder is like a standard army from the WotR. Which means close numbers of foot and archers with slightly more archers.
Stannis: 16,000 HC 5,000 HI
Tywin: 7,000HC 6,000 HI, 7,000 B

Instead of besieging King's Landing Tywin retreats west to gather a larger host. Stannis pursues him down the Gold Road. Tywin ,unable to outpace Stannis, draws up his lines along the road. Forests are to the north, the road center, to the south fields then the river.
Both are commanders and will not partake in the battle themselves.

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>>52597927
Tywin is more than willing to hold, loosing near forty-thousand arrows in the first minute of battle. Stannis using his only advantage must charge. They crash into the main infantry along the road, and begin clashing with the opposing knights on the south wing near the river.
The battle in the south is hard fought between the noblemen. But with superior numbers the Stormlord's knights chase the Westerlanders from the field. Stannis' infantry has closed in by this point. They suffered under heavy fire, but are now close enough to engage directly.
At this point Lannister forces emerge from the northern tree line to flank around, while Stannis' knights hit the main Lannister host from behind. Horses stuck in the center of it all trample over men-at-arms on both sides. I guess it would be a StanHC/TywB/TywHI/StanHC/StanHI/TywHI/TywB sandwich. The battle becomes a grind.
Stannis' foot outnumber the flankers and after the initial shock drive them back into the trees. The horsemen unable to break free of the center are slaughted. Meanwhile those who hit the back of Tywin's host win the day routing the Westerlanders.

Both commanders survive. Stannis injured by an arrow returns to the Iron Throne. Tywin bought the fastest horse in Westeros and fled back the Casterly Rock with Stormlanders in hot pursuit. Both sides took heavy casualties.
Lannister 10-13,000 dead
Stannis 9-10,000 dead

>>52598134
Did Stannis Win?

>>52598609
Yes. I should have stated that more clearly. It was a Pyrrhic Victory though. He wouldn't be able to win an all out war though without allies.

>>52598645
What are the chances of Robb Joining him?

>>52598134
>"My king, the archers are in front of us and you have hundreds of knights behind you. So how the fuck did you manage to get shot in the back?"

so what's gonna happen with Braavos

>>52599807
Nothing why?

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>>52599381
Iffy since Rob declared himself King in the north.
Best bet for an ally would be a marriage with the Tyrells.
>>52599519
Arrows are tricksy. Sometimes your own arrows get'cha.

>>52599950
>Best bet for an ally would be a marriage with the Tyrells.
Doesn't book Stannis hate the tyrells for what they did during the siege of storm's end?

>>52597285
Pretty sure that's (hopefully) what's going to happen

>>52599958
He definitely doesn't like them. But they have the largest army in westeros, and most of the grain. Would have to hold back his hate for the good of the realm. On the bright side what's her face he widowed makes a good queen, and could take care of social events for his autistic ass.

>>52600215
i'm certain Stannis hatred for the Tyrells is why he refuses to ally with them in the books

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>>52599965
>MFW all the incest the Lannisters do was to prepare the audience for the eventuality of Jon Snow shagging his aunt


The question is now, will they ever find out?

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>>52581670

>>52585489
When was the genocide?

>>52581467
Obviously the mind of the imp, but the body of the mountain, and the charm of

>>52581467
Renly would have led to a better government for the realm. This is because, if Renly was king, then the powers behind the throne would be Olenna and Willas, and they're a hell of a lot smarter than Davos "Straight outta Onions" Seaworth and the Red Bitch.

>>52600936
Leap-frogging the succession line is not good for the realm

>>52598645
Unless stannis captures tywin. Since tywin is/was the only competent war leader

>>52600936
>Renly would have led to a better government for the realm
No, Renly would be a horrible king. He had no claim, and when you crown people with no claims, instability tends to follow. War of the Five Kings will seem a minor squabble compared to what will hapen each time a king dies.
>Why wouldn't I try and grab the throne? King Renly did it!

>>52598134
Blackfyre rebellion?

>>52600596
I am willing to bet that will happen.
I mean, it would get back into the Targaryen's tradition of incest, but since they're so different, it'll go better with the public. They don't look alike much, so it's fine.

I can see Brann getting back from the other side and telling Jon that old Eddard ain't really his daddy.

However, I remember something about season 7 saying brothers and sisters will fight against each other, so maybe Jon and Sansa will end up quarreling, or it could be Tyrion and Cersei or even Theon and his sister.

In any case, I'm hyped.

>>52600936
>implying he wouldn't be wrapped around little's finger

he only tried to become king cause his boyfriend thought he'd look good in a crown, he'd just be Robert without the bastards

>>52583119
Nah, he just went to Stannis' hand to be played next turn.

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>>52587657
It's basically Zoroastrianism, the forebear of the Abrahamic faiths.

So yes, pretty much Islam that hasn't yet been slapped by the stupid stick.

>>52597543
Nah, Rob was the best of them.
Stannis should totally have got Storm's End, and the Master of Laws position.

Stannis is the ultimate king tragedy: He is the best man for the job and exactly what the kingdom needs, and for the very reasons that make him the best man for the position, we know he will never be King, or not for long.

Is Kevan the only good Lannister?

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>>52603076
What about whatisname, the one with the beard?

Dad got killed at the Battle of Oxcross, can't remember his name.

Pic unrelated.

>>52597590

I'm pretty sure there was a chapter with the Onion as a PoV character that established that he was pretty much alive and that the whole thing was a ruse.

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>>52581902
Not gonna lie, I got a half salami from that

>>52581467
Who here believes he wasn't killed by Brienne?

>>52603655
Stannis was already dead when he cum into Melisandre.

>>52587484
>everyone and their dad saying that the manderleys are going to bend their knee any second now.
>that courtroom scene
>tfw thought that davos is dead and his head is now decorating some pike
>"The north remembers Ser Davos, My son is home"

My dick became diamonds.

>>52595334
the littlefinger arc is GOAT.

>>52603076
The Kingslayer is turning into a character resembling a person of decent character.

>>52603115
daven I think?
He seems like a regular person.

>>52604008
His name is Jaime, stop keep calling him Kingslayer

>>52603957
That monologue is literally the greatest part of the books.

What the fuck happened to Rickon.

>>52603655
They didn't sign stephen dillane, brienne literally said that she executed him and the show says he is dead.

Stephen Dillane killed that role desu.
>dat slight pointing with his head and saying "Go on then, do your duty."
literally sportsmanship.

>>52604008
Brienne rubbed off on him, but then again, he showed he couldnbe ruthless if needed or, god forbid, it involves Cersei.

>>52604045
becoming King of cannibal and unicorn fuckers

>>52604056
he reads that cersei is about to die, and burns the letter and says that it's not important.

>>52604051
Ah shit. Oh well, at least I've been rooting for Snow since the very beginning, surely he must succeed. I mean, the story is litteraly named after him after him after all.

>>52604045
They went to hide him in Skagos, imagine if Scotland was a island and everyone was three times more savage and there where unicorns.

The Manderlys asked for Davos to bring him back, because they believe he is their rightful Lord of the North, in return to bending the knee to Stannis.

>>52604080
Goodness, when? I don't remember much, it's been ages. I'll probably have to watch/read a quick recap before the show starts again in July.

>>52604080
i always think that Jamie cheat spiritually while Cersei cheat physically

>>52604080
He realized quickly that she was everything wrong with his life and a terrible influence on him.

>>52604108
>cheat spiritually
Now that's something I never heard of.
>Yeah I fucked that other person, but I didn't put my mind into it so that's fiiiine

>>52604105
it's the Jaime chapter in ADWD. he reads cerseis letter and shrugs.
>>52604108
the only reason cersei fucked Jaime was because he was her male version. She wanted rhaegar because he was prettier than Jaime

>>52604129
yeah, that moment when that blonde in the riverland says that "I am the queen of Whores" and Jaime thinks to himself that, no, cersei is that too.

>>52604146
if anything it's the opposite. The only person Jaime wants to have sex with is cersei.

>>52604146
i meant Jamie fall in love with Brienne but never fuck her or other women while Cersei fuck many but still think of Jamie

>>52604156
pls dont die Jamie

The best part about Jaime's riverland arc is when he gets bullied by the Blackfish and everyone and their squires laugh at the fucking freys for being subhuman.

>>52602722
Well Cersei's prophecy flat out states one of her brothers will kill her.

>>52604213
There's only one house in the 7 kingdoms worse than the Freys.

>>52602722
It can't be Jon and Sansa, they aren't actually siblings and the prophecies are usually fairly literal.

>>52604226
The obvious answer is Tyrion, but I believe Jaime killing her would be poetic and ironic in it's own way. After everything that happened between them, he could go for that sweet sweet double regicide. That'd be a new record I wager.

>>52604265
>>52604226
Guys, he's already killed her by refusing to champion her.

>"Is this important, ser?"
>Jamie looks at the letter again
>"No. Put this in the fire."

After all, he's her younger brother too, if only by a few seconds.

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>>52604258
They're too cute together to fight anyway.

Funny thing, Sophie Turner is actually quite nice. She's from around where I study and would come to one of the nightclubs fairly regularly. Doesn't excuse her acting skills though.

>>52604265
I've said before, if Tyrion does it, I'll be disappoint. Jaime being the King AND Queenslayer, saviour of the realm twice over via his own double damnation? Now that is something I'd buy tickets for.

>>52604296
I agree with this interpretation too. That scene made me guffaw. Also interested to see what happens as Cersei gets more and more mad.
Definitely seeing parallels to Aerys the Mad Troll King. Maybe the rumours of their parentage aren't just that?

>>52604340
>Definitely seeing parallels to Aerys the Mad Troll King. Maybe the rumours of their parentage aren't just that?
Nah, its just Tywin's upbringing and the dodgy Lannister genes taking their toll, along with a butt-load of wine.

>>52604382
>wine
Say no to alcoholism people. You'll end up fucking your brother and bombing a city.

>>52604450
MADR: Monarchs Against Drunk Reign.

>>52604382
Pretty funny that Tywin making up for his father's failures results in some of the most fucked up people in Westeros.

>>52604213
I fucking hate that they killed the blackfish off screen
Also how none of the men agreed that they should stay and fight

>>52604495
Not to mention fucking his cousin. Doesn't set a good example for your inbred kids.

>>52604504
This being the Blackfish that escaped by floating down the river?

>>52604504
do we read the same book? Blackfish ran and Lannister remarks that he had a functional dick despite being an alleged gay

>>52604540
>>52604527
he's talking to the TV show.

>>52604513
That's pretty standard for nobility though. Which gets into more and more dodgy areas.
Unless I'm a complete head-cannoneer here, wasn't Joanna chosen solely because of his love for her? Which makes him even more blind to his twins.

>>52604504
That's because he's probably not dead.

Fuck. The show is so damn frustrating at times.

>>52604585
by to I mean about.

>>52604585
I wonder why there are so many discrepancies between the book and the show. I can imagine cutting some corners when GRRM told them this or that arc wouldn't go anywhere so they could take it away, save money, and not lose any substance (looking at you Lady Stoneheart) but there's plenty of little things that aren't the same between the two media.

>>52604668
they stopped giving a shit around the time the red wedding ended.

>>52604668
Little things? Like making Petyr either a total moron, or a complete (rather than mostly) dildo in regards to Sansa? Actually, not gonna use this as an excuse to rant about all the specific plot decisions I disagree with.

But yeah, I feel the show became obsessed with churning out the story as fast as possible. I do appreciate that I can watch it and be surprised as a novelfag, but damn but do I feel as though they're doing the novels a major disservice.
Particularly as we'll only see Winds in like 2020, and the final book will only exist as twelve thousand pages of draft notes, thus forcing us to turn to the truncated version of it all that HBO produces.

>>52604668
I think part of it is how changes they made at the start have caused much bigger problems down the line.

Like all the stuff with changing around Renly's characterization to make him more reasonable, see how that affected Stannis and Brienne's characters later on.

Or like how, as Tyrion never tells Jaime that Cersei has been screwing Lancel, he continues believing that she and him are meant to be together, until the Green Trial, anyway.

I think even GRRM himself pointed this out in a letter. At the moment I just regard the show as being very expensive fanfiction, it makes more sense that way.

>>52604247
Ironborn

>>52582131
>doesn't write cliché's
he does , he just threw in some distraction carnifexes that got to die of
what the hell do you think tyrion,danny and jon are if not cliché's ?

>>52597590
>>52583119
the manderly's tells the onion knight in private that he fucking hates the boltons and that "the north remembers" but now his sons are almost home and the time for vengeance is coming.
they say someone's head and hand was mounted on spikes but it's highly doubtfull that it was actually mr onion because of this. it's probably a ruse because people, especially the freys saw him in court.
i also think those freys suspiciously go missing afterwards

the north is so much better in the books

>>52585720
He doesn't need intelligence. He has Mokkoro and a magic hand. He just needs Mokkoro to tell him to not have a sailor blow the dragon horn because it still belongs to Euron.

>>52596545
Tywin couldn't beat a fifteen year old boy at a game he's been playing for decades.

>>52604067
Green Wolf King of Cannibal and Unicorn.

>>52581467
>a song of shit and faggots

lol

>>52608098
F A T
P I N K
shitpost

>>52604170
>while Cersei fuck many but still think of Jamie
Lol. Cersei doesn't love Jaime. She just thinks of him as an extension of herself - the moment he loses a hand and stops doing as he's told, Cersei begins hating him.

This is the first fantasy series I've ever read and I'm enjoying it, currently at the beginning of the third book.
Is it normal that I have to constantly look up the names of characters and houses because I can't remember anything past the POV characters and the most prominent side characters or am I retarded?

>>52609081
I forgot to mention that me constantly forgetting names kind of makes me anxious about reading other fantasy literature, do I just need to git gud or is ASOIAF an example for stories with constant hard to remember name drops?

>>52609081
>>52609145
It depends. Some books put ASoIaF to shame with the number of characters, PoV shifts and continent-spanning leaps. However, I've found that ASoIaF has slightly more characters than is modernly typical.
That said, I can keep most in my head. Even those I forgot, I usually can figure out based on their names. So yes, git gud.
Also, how old are you and when did you start reading the series? Always curious when I hear someone has never read fantasy before.

>>52609318
17 anon

>>52609318
I started the series last year and am 19, I didn't read much before in my life and am currently working on changing that.

I guess part of the problem is my autistic need to consume all of my media including those books in english despite it not being my first language, I guess as I get better at that I'll have an easier time concentrating to remember names.

>>52609412
<18 GTFO.

>>52609563
Well good for you. There's a list somewhere, 100 Books to Read Before You're 30, or something like that. I recommend it. Lot of classics. And if you don't like some of them, well then you can sound smart for disliking classics and being able to expound upon that.

I would say it's probably been made a bit harder by your choice to read in your non-native tongue, but again, good for you anon. I started reading The Romance of the Three Kingdoms around Christmas in English, which is my native language, and fuck it was difficult for me to remember who was who at first.
One thing I did was actually just write down who the hell was who. The physical writing down helped me recall things so much better. So that may or may not be of assistance to you.

>>52585202
>Stannis doesn't seem to grasp the basic rule of all politics; rules are not there for politicians to follow, they're there to find as many ways to bend or go around without getting caught as they can possibly get away with.

That...is a bullshit excuse for corruption and criminality in high places. It's the kind of thinking which makes Third World countries into such hellholes.

I mean without the Red Bitch Stannis would have lost to superior Renly. Stromlands Stronk.

>>52582131
People who say 'OMG, I never would have thought Ned Stark was going to die SO ORIGINAL!!!' are morons.
The surprising thing about Ned Stark is that he survived past page twenty - his death is blatantly obvious from the very beginning. As is Jon Snow's parentage - or at least his mother.
The series is going to end with Snow and Daenerys getting married.
And I will laugh my fucking ass off when everyone cries out SO ORIGINAL!!!

>>52610687
War isn't arithmetic. Stannis would have figured away to break Renly's army.

>>52610939
I strongly have to disagree, not because Stannis wouldn't have a god-tier plan. But simply because of the numbers that Renly packed with the Reach. The reach is what would have won him the fight. Stormlands vs Stannis base army would have been one hell of a fight. But the reach spam balances the scales in Renlys favor greatly.

His best bet would have been to compromise with Renly who was brokering a deal with the Starks. Unite those three shit on the Lannister scum.

>>52611007
All Stannis need to do is kill renly in open battle

>>52611167
> Kin Slaying

> Stannis

> Not in ritual

Sorry to break it to you.

>>52604540
He's gay?

>>52612080
Blackfish? it's kinda a grey area. He's 40/50 years old and never married. Everytime Hoster found him a match the guy would run the fuck away or tell him to shove it.

>Roasties get out reeeeee

>>52612286
Really

>>52612286
In fairness who the fuck would want to marry into the Freys? Especially since Blackfish stands little politically to gain from the union given his character.

>>52613574
People who don't want to have their family slaughtered

>>52613647
That was wildly out of character for the Freys though. Before Lannister intervention the Freys had 0 clout outside of river crossing, to murder the heads of a major house was unheard of for them.

>>52613647
Does thd pros of the red wedding outweighed the cons?

>>52610733
Danny and Jon getting married isn't exactly something surprising. It's been talked about since time immemorial when they were both "outsiders", kinda wanting the throne/position of power but not really acting on it.
I daresay they'd make a good couple, and good rulers.

>>52581670
(you)

>>52613691
It would have happened sooner or later, ever since the Rebellion the Freys were on a steady rise in power thanks to Walder being fashionably late in sending troops to die and having one of the few farmable land untouched by the war.

The Darry got shafted hard and they were one of the major food producers of the Riverlands, with them out Walder was the premier grain seller after the Reach Houses.

Will the North ever recovers lads?
Will the Wildlings actually integrate and become proud Northern folks?

>>52604513
Fucking your cousin isn't bad unless you keep doing it for centuries like certain people in the Middle East have done for over a thousand years.

>>52599807
all right seriously, what the FUCK is happening with Braavos?

Between the Iron Bank having their fingers in everyone's pie and the "a galleon a day" Arsenal shit I can't be the only one who sees Braavos as a sleeping giant, right? If you don't think Braavos is a major fucking naval power in TWOW/ADOS you're out of your fucking mind, right? No one is mentioning these fuckers and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! Is this just some massive GRRM red herring? Am I being memed hard? What the FUCK

>>52614577
Red herring. or potential plot point in the last two books

>>52614577
Braavos will be reconquered, by descendant of Valyria

>>52585844
>Shireen Baratheon: The heir to the throne, Princess Shireen is pure innocence and a true delight for the realm.
She truly lighted up the darkness.
Such a warm personality.

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>>52582057

I will be remarkably pissed off if Young Griff doesn't appear soon.

>>52617544
Young Griff will not appear on the show. Ever. Which is why Varys is now supporting Daenerys all of the sudden, and why Connington's role was given to Jorah.

>>52617544
>>52617568
Fucking ass. I don't want to admit it, but you're very, very right.
What the anon earlier said is true. The HBO series is just stupidly expensive fantrash.

>>52597285
>>52599965
>>52600596
>>52602722
Hell, I'm all for Dany and Jon. Just so long as their firstborn kills Jon in some fashion.
That way, the Arthurian parallels will be complete.

>>52617770
I'm still hoping that Dany will end up marrying Euron and end up being the bad guy.

>>52618056
I see this as more probable than Jon and Dany.
She despises the Stark name, or at least ought to. In Euron, she finds another person who feels their lives were ruined by the Wardens of the North. Together, they unite to take revenge against both the remnants of Baratheon reign and the villains who led to all their misfortune.

Or at least, that's the pitch Euron makes her.

>>52618230
Well, I kinda see it as starting at least with how Euron has what Dany needs (a big old fleet) and his oodles of conquests throughout the story shows that he's attractive enough.

It's only what might happen if/when he gets bored of her that things might get bad.

We still don't know what Euron's plan is, after all.

>>52618329
>We still don't know what Euron's plan is, after all.
We actually do, it's to become a god. He's also potentially an ally to the Others.

>>52618407
>He's also potentially an ally to the Others.
How so? Their only plan seems to be "wipe out everything that isn't one of us", surely Euron would find himself excluded by that?

>>52618329
Oh yeah that's very clear. She wants her boats.
She does like herself some dangerous men, so that'll probably sway her too, but I meant more as a reason for Dany to actually like Euron as opposed to simply align herself with him out of a combination of convenience and need.

>>52618597
He's probably another Other-Human like the Night King/Roose Bolton.

>>52618329
>>52618230
>>52618056

Victorian will rape Dany first

>>52618850
Doubt it. He's braindead but I don't think even he's that braindead. I kinda hope it happens, because it'd make sense and it would also drive her from the obvious Ironborn alliance, but I don't think it'll occur.

>>52584125
King and Emperor are just fancy names. There are no emperors in Westeros so why would they name themselves like that.

>>52585169
>that lost god's blessing and so right to rule.
That´s China yo, medieval rulers did not rule by the divinity of god (not even the fucking pope seeing that there were 3 at the same time at some point). Divine right to rule was a thing of the 1600-1750 period in Europe.

>>52618597
A vision hints at it
>The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed…

What's the best chapter in the whole series, and why it's AFFC 19?

>"What will you give us?" asked Lucas Codd. "Knitting?"
>"Aye, Lucas. I'll knit us all a kingdom." She tossed her dirk from hand to hand. "We need to take a lesson from the Young Wolf, who won every battle . . . and lost all."
>"A wolf is not a kraken," Victarion objected. "What the kraken grasps it does not lose, be it longship or leviathan."
>"And what have we grasped, Nuncle? The north? What is that, but leagues and leagues of leagues and leagues, far from the sound of the sea? We have taken Moat Cailin, Deepwood Motte, Torrhen's Square, even Winterfell. What do we have to show for it?" She beckoned, and her Black Wind men pushed forward, chests of oak and iron on their shoulders. "I give you the wealth of the Stony Shore," Asha said as the first was upended. An avalanche of pebbles clattered forth, cascading down the steps; pebbles grey and black and white, worn smooth by the sea. "I give you the riches of Deepwood," she said, as the second chest was opened. Pinecones came pouring out, to roll and bounce down into the crowd. "And last, the gold of Winterfell." From the third chest came yellow turnips, round and hard and big as a man's head. They landed amidst the pebbles and the pinecones. Asha stabbed one with her dirk. "Harmund Sharp," she shouted, "your son Harrag died at Winterfell, for this." She pulled the turnip off her blade and tossed it to him. "You have other sons, I think. If you'd trade their lives for turnips, shout my nuncle's name!"

>>52619687
> AFFC 19

stop quoting like bible

>>52587803
Charisma inspires love, deeds inspire loyalty.

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>>52596413
>What did he mean by this?
That he didn't and doesn't want to be involved in any of this, but duty, honor, and filial piety require that he must set aside his own desires and do what is expected of him.

He's pretty much just Bashar al-Assad.

>>52604045
>What the fuck happened to Rickon.
He became the Troll-king of Skagos.
>That doesn't seem too likely, anon.
Then how do you explain the dead unicorns?

>>52585081
>Melisandre is a walking Deus Ex Machina.
Hardly so.

Despite having more impressive displays of magic than even the Three Eyed Crow (or Raven, if you watch the show), she can't just pop out shadow babies whenever she pleases.

>>52615362
>Braavos will be reconquered, by descendant of Valyria
Unlikely. The height of the Valyrian Freehold is long over and doubtless will return. The most powerful nation in Planetos history is just that, history.

Shame too, they would have been more than a match for the Others/White-Walkers.

>>52617770
>Jon
>dying
Hell no. Danny can fuck off though.

>>52622258
>Danny can fuck off

You can fuck right off, actually.

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>>52622373
Oh no you didn't.
The only reason I could see her on the theone now is because she kinda "deserves" it, by right, and even then it's wonky as shit since everyone has a claim to that spiky chair nowadays.

Unless she grows in caracter again, she'll be a terrible ruler. She's useful to fight the others with her dragons (maybe) but that's about it really.

>>52622811
>The only reason I could see her on the theone now is because she kinda "deserves" it
She deserves a dickless man?