Arms&Armor Thread

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>>52561252
post your favorite style of armor

I'm personally a fan of brigandines. They just have something that makes them more attractive than a breastplate though I do love me some 16th century munitions armor

I used to really hate the look of brigandines, but they've grown on me.

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>>52561252
I believe this is a figurine of a polish armor but im not sure

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>>52561306
Fuck me sideways, I forgot my image and my link.

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>>52561299
I can't tell you what my favorite armor overall armor style is, I really like non-houndskull bascinets.

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>>52561299
i like the burgonet

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>>52561306
I can get that, I'm not a fan of using brigandine methods for parts other than the torso. They usually end up looking kinda silly to me

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>>52561299
fancy scale or lamellar can look good, though they're hard to come by

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>>52561299
Bronze age stuff like the guy on the right.

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munitions plate has a special place in my heart

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There is something to be said for the classics.

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I don't think the pauldrons really fit with the rest of the armor, but other than that, this is probably the most badass set of believable armor I have ever seen.

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>>52562981
If it's got a visor, it's not a barbute.

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>>52562995
looks like a barbut to me

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>>52562995

>>52563118
>>52563104

Barbuts never had visors. It's a modern anachronism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb1csnUeebo

>>52563613
Huh. Interesting watch. Thank you for opening my eyes.

>>52563702
If you're ever interested in learning I highly recommend both Knyght Errant and Scholagladitoria.

>>52563720
I watch Scholagladitoria but I have yet to check out Knyght Errant. Will do.

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>>52561299
Brigandines are my jam.

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anyone know what type of helmet this is called?

Why are there so few modern reenactors painting their armor? I was always under the impression that a lot of original armor was painted to protect it from the elements?

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>>52564914
most people have an image of shining armor that comes from museum curators polishing the ass off their armor.

In reality, cheap armor wouldn't be shiny. In modern armors, polishing accounts for about 20% of the cost. In the medieval period, polishing accounted for up to 80%.

Painting can be hard too, especially if you aren't an artist.

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>>52564838
You mean this one?

>>52564838
Basinet?

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>>52561252
Aaaaww yeah.
Lots of armour, sure.
But what about POLEWEAPANZ

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>>52564838
Klappvisor lowpoint bascinet

>>52564914
>>52564964
The god honest answer is simple: time-to-maintenance ratio. The amount of time put into painting armour past a coat of black, is typically seen as an effort in futility, as most people who own armour of such caliber are using it in practical situations such as combat sports and historic fencing.

A high polish, blueing, russeting, etc, is just easier to maintain.

>>52565050
>A high polish, blueing, russeting, etc, is just easier to maintain.
It is? I read something about knights without squires blackening the armour simply because it protected them from rusting.
Then again, knights without squires?

>>52565113
We're talking modern people such as historic martial artists and reenactors. You have no need for a squire when you have a power sander with buffing head and a bottle of NAAS.

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>>52565151
Ohh reenactors. Sure, power sanders would be enough.
Hey, about poleaxes, which was the most useful combination?
Axe & Hammer, Hammer & beak or Axe & beak.
They were for knight on knight combat, right?

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>>52565222
whichever one you're used to

personally I like the one of the left in your pic, it's such an iconic style

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>>52565222
Subjective opinion based on personal tastes, training and exact situation.

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>>52565332
I like Guisarmes (?) the most, and I really don't know why...but they'd be of questionable use against a knight on foot, right?
I haven't found any instances of hot halberd on pollaxe action

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D A G G E R A X E

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>>52565712
Those are halberds missing several bits :^)

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>>52565746
Well they do predate halberds by several thousand years, originating in the awkward transition between stone and bronze weapons.

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>>52561299
Still love plate armor and all, but shit man, it looks fine.

Also Rome Total War was my childhood.

>>52563732
Fair warning, Knyght Errant is pretty dry, but he knows his stuff.

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>>52561649
my man

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>>52561299
17th century plate armor. Right before it went out of use and men started to wear ridiculous wigs.

Great helm best helm

>>52561316
That's a COP.

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>>52566572
Nice

Is there some sort of non historic armor that is misx of Samurai and knight armor?

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15th century gothic, simple and good looking.

Pic unrelated but still cool.

>>52566848
The Manga Berserk has at least one set of Maximilian Samurai Armor.

Oda Nobunaga owned at least one set of Namban-Armour, which used a peacoat breastplate and a Morino.

>>52568545
>The Manga Berserk has at least one set of Maximilian Samurai Armor.
Which chapter?

>>52566354
someone crop the leopard eyes

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Hate to be a cunt, but does anyone have good pictures of Dumas style Musketeers actually in the field?
Failing that some fuckers in morion wearing spaniards would be golden.

>>52568567
Azan, the old reliable of lady Farnese, is rocking a very tasteful Maximilian/Do-mashup armour.

>>52568744
Oh yeah, that guy.

>>52561313
Definitely somewhat Eastern European. Especially the shied is very Polish\Hungarian-like.

>>52563613

what would you call it then?
Because it looks to me like someone stuck a visor on a barbute.

>>52573653
Ahistorical and pointless. Having a nasal and a visor makes both redundant and less comfortable.

>>52573897
when your job involves a high risk of people hitting you in the face with weapons, double protection is not redundant.

seems like a decent idea to me. also looks cool as shit.

>>52561524

>shins protected
>Thighs wide open
>Arms not protected
>Shoulders well guarded with GIGANTIC PAULDRONS
>Pauldrons deflect blade into unprotected neck and head

Just kidding I don't have autism. :)

...

>>52574310
>unprotected thighs

I want this meme to stop.

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Uploading right now.

Quality's potatoe and its value is pretty damn low, because without the text translated, it's just a lot of swords without any information. As educational about the subject as a Wuxia movie, really.

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I'll scan this one next. It's basically wierd self defence weapons galore, though it's interesting to see where the term "trick weapon" used in Bloodborne originated from.

>>52574310
Bronze age, bruv. They didn't exactly have armor down to a science. Just look at the guy on the left. He likely couldn't so much as squat to take a shit in that getup.

>>52575743
>how do skirts work?

Fucking magnets, man.

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>>52575743
That's fine, as a noble charioteer he had a gaggle of shirtless servants to hold the shit pot right up to his anus if need be

>>52574310
What's wrong with greaves?

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>>52576025
leaving the part of your body with the largest artery exposed is kinda silly. Why leave them open and protect your fucking shins?

Now with a large shield in formation, it's fine. If you are fighting alone, with no shield, it's a bad choice

>>52576085
Dude, the thighs were the last part of the body armored throughout all of history regardless of how were you fighting. The order is
>head>chest>forearm> upper arm/ shoulder> feet/shins> thighs

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http://www2.zippyshare.com/v/GcvOrNne/file.html

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>>52576126
that's because people almost always had shields in warfare

and at least with chainmail, thighs were almost always covered.

>>52575631
Yes please, thanks!

>>52576085
In my experience (admittedly unprofessional) the shins are one of the easiest places to hit a person with a stick, be it sword or pole arm sized.

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Like what the fuck. How's this "classic" in any way, shape or form? This is even too weird for manga.

My personal favourite in terms of wierd/awesome shit in the book is Musashi's punch axe, but the only weapon I'd throw money at to have in my collection's the hard whip walking stick.

>>52576254
From the 11thC. Prior to that most shirts only about half-way down the thigh and the earlier you go the more likely it is you'll see shirts that barely go past the groin.

Shields were of course nearly universal, but you do still have the case of dane-axes being used (especially in the 10thC before knee-length hauberks become common) with byrnies that only cover half the thigh.

And it's not always the case that large shields compensate for lesser thigh coverage. Early Anglo-Saxon (say 5-7thC) mail was relatively short, and the shields were usually a good deal smaller than in the 10 or 11thC. Likewise kiteshields co-incide with the adoption of longer mail.

>>52576136
It seems like the Chinese themselves are getting more interested in military history research, which will be good for all of us if more of it makes its way into English. There is a lot of misinformation and anachronisms out there.

>>52576515
They're somewhat more likely to have their shit translated than say... the Japanese. The guy who wrote that book apparently is some rich fuck who owns a good portion of the swords shown in it.

>>52566572
>>52572770
I really like winged hussars, but having played With Fire & Sword I can't help but think, "Fucking winged faggots" everything I see them.

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>>52576448
that's strange, in my experience trying to reach shins leaves you open to attacks

Though I do arnis, so no shields and fairly short weapons. If you're using a bo staff or polearm, you can definitely attack the shins, or basically anywhere

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16th c. German is best
>Maximilian
>Almain Rivet
>Black & White armor

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Fucking Punch Axes, man.

>>52576701
>couple 15th century knights
>Standing in front of a 12th century army

It's like an American Civil War soldier on a humvee in Fallujah

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>>52576769
That's a funny way to say 14th c. Italian.

>>52576843
The armor he posted is clearly 16th century

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Also a knuckle duster for armored combat.

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>>52576830
You say that like it's a bad thing

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>>52576857
Anon I think you might be terminally retarded.

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>>52576843
what a weird way to spell Maximillian armor

>>52572770
That's a fucking tiny horse.

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>>52576843
everyone gather round so we can make fun of the anon who thinks this

>>52576888
I'm pretty confident that when the guy photoshoped those knights over a scene of kingdom of heaven he wasn't deliberately being anachronistic, just accidentally so.

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Sallet is objectively best helm and I'll fight anyone who disagrees.

>>52577016
Speaking of anachronisms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2oTy6dYPPE

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>>52577016
looks better than this

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>>52577059
Come the fuck at me bro.

>>52561524
Is that dennis?

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>>52577068
fucking hell, that is some beautiful armor. How much you think it cost him?

>>52576085
It's actually really hard to hit someone in the inner thigh. Not only does our body instinctively protect the groin, but there's not a good angle of attack towards it that isn't easy to avoid and doesn't leave you extremely open. You can chop and slash from the outside in, but that's gonna hit the outer thigh. Not good, but other than the ass and upper back, is the most muscled and hard to damage part of the body.

You just can't get a good swing at the inner thigh, you'd have to start with your blade more or less between their legs to start with, and then try to generate power for a chop in the space of maybe 10 inches tops. While it might be damaging if you pull it off, you're going to get more reliable results by smashing at the head and chest, armored though they might be, with your most powerful swing, rather than trying to delicately slice an artery.

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>>52564914
>Why are there so few modern reenactors painting their armor?
depends on the armor

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>>52561299
>post your favorite style of armor
late 16th century half armors circa 1580 to be more precise

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>>52577389
true, the inner thigh is pretty hard to hit. But in the pic, the guy has literally no protection for his entire thigh. All I can imagine is an ax chopping into his leg. Doesn't even need to be a great hit, you aren't gonna keep fighting without the ability to walk.

A spear would be even harder to defend against, and those pale thighs are a glowing target

>>52577542
It was the bronze age.
Naked barbarians crushed seven entire civilizations because they could swarm in and run circles around the heavily armored dudes.

>>52577588
And anyone with armor more than a hat was probably either on a chariot or standing at the back yelling.

So it's kind of irrelevant anyway.

So bit of an odd question and not so sure if this is the right place, but why didn't we have more flat, bucket like helmets? Something like a tank turret without the big fucking gun in the middle.

>>52577750
Turns out having a flat-topped helmet is an excellent way to transfer the entire kinetic force of a blow right into your noggin

Curved helmets glance and deflect blows instead, skipping the weapon away from you

>>52577542
First of all that's cavalry armor, dudes gonna have a thousand pounds of horseflesh between his thighs for you to chop through first.

Second, if you can reliably hit a target like the inner thigh, which will constantly be moving, is rather small, and situated in the most anatomically and psychologically protected position on the body, with something with a small precise profile like a spear in order to hobble and MAYBE if you're lucky kill in a while after they bleed out, then you're going to be much better off aiming at a much bigger target like the torso, which is near guaranteed to kill or at least end their participation on the battle almost instantly.

I'm not saying that getting hit in the inner thigh wouldn't be devastating, it would. But it's just not worth the incredible amount of extra difficulty and risk involved. When you're talking about large scale battle, it's not about getting incredible skillful shots off, because for every master spearman that could pull off a hit like that, and every random lucky swipe that happens to sever the artery. There are a hundred or a thousand or a hundred thousand kills from the tried and true method of "put sharp bit in the chest" and "swing heavy thing at the head".

Most results, least effort. That's how every leader tries to fight their wars.

>>52577790
Not just into your noggin, but into your neck as well because the helmet is basically free floating.

>>52577816
An important point.

>>52577340
Fuck, all that fluting and edgework? At least 20 grand I bet, probably more

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>>52576085
Arm chair warriors are the worst.

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>>52577899
Way too many people go with what they think seems right, rather than what was historically true.

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>>52566391
Fuck you. Fancy wigs are awesome.

>>52566848
The Lannister armour from GoT

>>52561313
>>52573084
Negative. That is more generalized 14thC west euro, and with splints like that, very likely German.

>>52574186
>seems like a decent idea to me.
And that is why you don't design armour. the visor defeats the purpose of the barbute design in the first place, and having both the corinthian/T-slot and a visor is a lot of added weight.

>>52574310
>>52574350
>>52575743
>>52575834
>>52576014
>>52576025
>>52576025
>>52576085
>>52576126
>>52576254
Shields are not optional in bronze age combat.

>>52576448
>>52577542
Unless you have extreme length advantage or fight from a lower position, the lower leg is a poor choice of target outside of melee. While you're attacking low, you're exposing high, and high targets are always more vulnerable and offer greater purchase.

>>52576769
>>52576843
>>52576936
>>52577068
You all spelled "15thC Italian in modo antiquo" wrong.

>>52577800
>First of all that's cavalry armor
Negative. The faulds don't go far enough, nor is the crotch-gap nearly wide enough. That is very clearly foot harness.

People seem to forget, that its actually cavalry that need shin and knee armour the most, and their lower legs are ideal target height. I repeat, While you're attacking low, you're exposing high, and high targets are always more vulnerable and offer greater purchase.

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>>52577899
the guy in your pic has a massive shield, which makes it so you don't need as much armor. The guy in the pic that started all this has no shield. Additionally, he's not in a group, which helps a lot, as your buddy's shield can help defend you when your shield doesn't cover everything.

>>52577800
again, I'm not talking about the inner thigh. It's not very vulnerable. I'm talking about armor that leaves the /entire/ thigh open like >>52561524 The pic I posted was just a random picture of armor I have

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>>52578395
this style of armor is called 15thC Italian in modo antique?

you got any more pics of it?

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>>52578608
Correct. Its literally 15thC armour designed to inspire the image of ancient Greece and Rome.
Faux-musculata, Multi-lame armour, Brass and gold embelishments. Scale and peturges...

But first, the most famous of the movement: The Corinthian Barbute.

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Armchair warriors will just never be happy until every possible vulnerability is covered in metal.

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>>52578733
man, when I win the lottery, I'm getting a set like the guy in brown and gold. Those pauldrons are sexy

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>>52578733

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>>52578866

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>>52578952

>>52578866
The smile of a man who knows he is the most fabulous fucker on the field.

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>>52576482
>>52575631
>>52576805
Yeah, the title is a misnomer. It's not about classic weapons like the katana or bow, but all the other shit they used that nobody talks about.

The musashi kaiken always looked a lot like an ulu to me.
Still a good read though. Thanks for scanning.

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>>52579047

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>>52578942

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>>52576515
>which will be good for all of us if more of it makes its way into English.
I'm surprised 《畫說中國歷代甲胄》 never got translated.

>There is a lot of misinformation and anachronisms out there.
There's a lot of gaps in archaeology,there are remnants of Chu and Yan armaments but they are nowhere as complete as the Qin terracotta warriors.

It doesn't help people still reference the outdated Osprey volumes.

>>52576615
>The guy who wrote that book apparently is some rich fuck who owns a good portion of the swords shown in it.
I'm pretty sure the author owns a museum in China.

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>>52561299
Something about the delightful awkwardness and dead-ends of WWI and interwar development just tickles me.

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>>52582218
hey, the swiss had good designs

>>52577059
is that a Burleigh & Stronginthearm crossbow he has there?

>>52582277
If only they ever did anything.

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does anyone have pics of old black powder guns? I remember seeing one that has a rotating magazine that was really interesting. I forgot to save it though. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please post it

>>52582277
Huh, neat! I've never seen Swiss designs from that period; I guess I assumed they'd just adopted a domestically produced copy of the Adrian or Brodie like everyone else. Thanks for sharing this, Anon!

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>>52582637
I don't think it was in wide production, my pic was probably a prototype

I don't think anyone made helmets with eye covers the main helmet during ww1

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>>52561252
Can anyone help me identify this? I can't tell what it is under all the decorations.

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>>52582800
Custom made 16thC In Modo Antiquo field harness, in the style of Negroli, as produced by professional American armourer, Ugo Serrano. The armour is designed for SCA and steel combat. The Burgeonet has three exchange visors (laser cut grill, forged faceplate, and perf plate visor). There are matching elbows and gauntlets, and supposedly leg harness is in the works.

Several thousand dollars of harness in these pics.

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>>52582945

>>52582945
>Works for SCA
Brilliant. Now if only I could find something in this style sans all the (admittedly gorgeous) frivolities.

>>52582960
Ugo Serrano is the shit, apparently my ex wife knows him

>>52582970
Not just "works for": Its hardened stainless explicitly made of a cross-fighting duke to use in rapier, cut-and-thrust and heavy.

>>52583071
I had the great pleasure of getting my ass kicked by him at Estrella War one year.

>>52561524
Left is superior in both function and aesthetic.

Guy on the right might as well have a sign that says, "Rape me!"

>>52583140
sure, if you're a charioteer and don't plan on walking anywhere or raising your arms above your head

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>>52566354
Butted 4 in 1 is not authentic. Hamata should be alternating rows of riveted links and press-punched solid rings.

>>52561524
>Thunderwarriors.png

>>52583315

Isn't butted in general not authentic because it's fucking rubbish?

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>>52580962
>I'm pretty sure the author owns a museum in China.

So how do we effectively petition him to spend his lunch money on translating that book? Should we get some scholar of ancient chinese language to write us up a letter that contains all the proper references to ancient literature?

>>52580962
>I'm surprised 《畫說中國歷代甲胄》 never got translated.

My general impression is that that one was drawn in the style of that opera illustrator. As in kinda correct, but with massive allowance for the illustratior's style that deforms the cut of all the armour shown significantly...

Also I see a lot of pages in Google. Does a pirated version of that one already exist?

so experts, tell me the best armor that ever been produced

>>52585603
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentations of ther women, of course.

>>52577059
Anyone here know where I could buy a helmet exactly like the one pictured here? Looking to put together a suit.

>>52585626
come on

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>>52583315
I just learned something about mail, good sir.

>>52585603
>>52585697
Let's be honest, a silly question isn't above a silly answer.

>>52585634
Is there any armor maker that doesn't make a visored sallet?

http://www.bestarmour.com/ are kinda cheap and not shit.

>>52580167
it's so funny to see that they even made space for the dick to comfortably have an hard on

>>52585862
come fucking on
recommend one then, one that is superior to that armor common in medieval age

>>52586297
>recommend one then, one that is superior to that armor common in medieval age

The Gavin. It's self-propelled an can into space.

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>>52586297
Everything built by mad genius Troy Hurtubise

>>52586297
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Armour

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>>52561524
>Guy on the left
>Pic related

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>>52576395
>>52575631
Much Japan, much weapon, not much classic.

http://www29.zippyshare.com/v/oPbVKJN6/file.html

>>52577899
>not understanding the concept of phalanxes

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>>52584826
>So how do we effectively petition him to spend his lunch money on translating that book?
I doubt something as niche as the subject will end up translated...

On an unrelated note there's finally a late Ming documentary with period accurate armaments.

>>52585331
>As in kinda correct, but with massive allowance for the illustratior's style that deforms the cut of all the armour shown significantly
imo the cartoon renders are useful for showing how the individual armors are worn and how they were constructed.

They made a good attempt at synthesizing multiple sources(period artwork,ceramic statues,temple murals,archaeological finds).

>Does a pirated version of that one already exist?
It does now.

http://www92.zippyshare.com/v/wv29cSW8/file.html

>>52587579
>I doubt something as niche as the subject will end up translated...

Well seeing how the whole museum's a rich fuck's pet project and seeing how their ability to buy politics is rather limited in China, I can still imagine the guy publishing a translation at some point.

I'm not even asking for a translation of that Lexicon on ancient arts and crafts here, just that one book.

>It does now.

>http://www92.zippyshare.com/v/wv29cSW8/file.html

I have been rewarded.

>>52587579
>>52588745
Even though it is all in runes, it is very helpful and I've already learned something. Why did they wear those strangely shaped caps in ancient times? It goes over their hair.

>>52578471
Thighs were largely unarmored everywhere for literally centuries. Aiming for the outer thigh isn't worth very much in a fight to the death on battlefield with hundreds of other guys. It requires too much effort with too little return.

>>52588855
>Why did they wear those strangely shaped caps in ancient times?
The headscarf(Futou) was introduced from Xianbei nomads.

Under the Tang dynasty the headscarf and the round collar robe were used by both civilian officials and soldiers eventually filtering down to the populace(retained as late as the early Qing)

It was used to secure the topknot and possibly double as padding for helmets.

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>>52586297
Probably the Leopard 2A7, although of course the M1A2 is more battle proven and l I've seen the Challenger 2 and Merkava as common contenders

Definitely better protection from mines and RPGs as well as conventional threats

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>>52589036
got any armor sets passed the bronze age that didn't cover the thighs from people that fought without shields?

if you could afford anything more than a helmet and mail shirt, you went with leg guards. Leg guards lasted longer than full arm sets, so there's obviously a demand for thigh protection

>>52584715
>>52583315
I'm making butted mail myself because it's easy as shit and requires 2-3 simple tools If you stab butted mail, it just comes apart. It could maybe protect against some kind of slash, but it could still break if someone hits you hard enough.

I can only assume the first mail ever was butted but people moved on to riveting mail as soon as they could.

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>>52576254
Like that piece of art, what century it represents?

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>>52590259
14th century, the Battle of Halmyros specifically.

Almogavars(the guys in just tunics) were extremely poor shepherds turn mercenary by the Reconquista. They fought with basically no armor, acting as light infantry and shock troops.

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>>52590255
The earliest mail we've found is Celtic and was made from riveted and welded links. Welding seems to have coexisted with punched solid links even in the Medieval period, although some scholars are now questioning studies that suggested welded links in a medieval context.

There is this Etruscan "proto-mail" which is dated before the earliest actual mail we have found so far. The long chains of links alternate between soild rings and what I think are pairs of butted rings. It kind of reminds of some Japanese Kusari. In any case, the first actual mail we've found don't use butted links at all.

https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=32259&view=previous

I'm not sure when butted mail was first used or at least popularised, but my guess would be sometime in the 16-18thC for decorative use or in parade armour. Some very ornate Indian and Middle Eastern armour used butted links (on aventails for example).

Armour meant for battle though used riveted and punched/welded/more riveted links and that has been the case since 300BC. (Pic is 10thC Norwegian mail due to lack of good photos for early Celtic mail).

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>>52578395
I don't care how richly decorated your modo antiquo is, it'll never come close to the majesty of Dead Space helmets and armor decorated with the 16th century equivalent of flipping someone the bird

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>>52593453
Come on man, you didn't even use the image with the close-ups showing exactly what Wolfgang thinks of you and your army.

>>52566982
royal armouries in england yes?

So I'm assuming you lads prefer more realistic depiction of armor in fantasy? I was playing the Witcher 3 for the first time and I was pleasantly surprised with the depiction of armor in the game. Gambesons instead of leather jackets, good shape on breastplates, stuff like that. Didn't surprise me that people didn't like that armor was depicted with function in mind instead of sleek designs and not making the MC look "fat".

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>>52566982
So much chain mail on those sides, even with the metal slats.

Ive been loving these lately myself

>>52577340
I really like this grungy post-battle mercenary look here. Does anyone have any art similar to this?
>tactical sword
>strappings and exposed harness
>piecemail? piecemeal?

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Ottoman plate and maille armor is interesting to me, I wonder why the concept never really caught on in Europe.

Looks heavy as fuck but not much heavier than a brigandine

>>52597870
I take it this is from a cavalryman, because walking on that seems like it would hurt in period shoes

>>52597984
correct, also I can't really see the usefulness of armored soles unless you're on a horse

>>52561252

I've never really read up on much of British history after about Battle of Hastings. Was this kind of armor actually common? What role did these dudes fill on the battlefield? Wouldn't it have been super expensive? Were these guys really knights? Were they on a lower run than the knights on horseback?

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>>52598145
>Was this kind of armor actually common?
Gothic is one of the more common. Many wouldn't be this well equipped though and would just have bits and pieces.
>What role did these dudes fill on the battlefield?
Holding the line. Then forcing the other force off the field.
>Wouldn't it have been super expensive?
Could be. Depends on quality. Munitions grade armor was around that was cheaper, and wealthy patrons could purchase bulk orders from workshops in Milan.
>Were these guys really knights?
By this time there weren't as many knights running around. It had become more of a prestigious title. The majority would have been men-at-arms, some esquires.
>Were they on a lower run than the knights on horseback?
Hard to say, but likely. Horses are expensive. However for a long time most English knights/men-at-arms fought on foot. Richard III's famous cavalry charge at Bosworth is kind of out of place.

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>>52598145
depends how you define common. Munitions plate was common, with helmets being basically required.

Guys in full plate would lead charges and act as squad commanders, because they were the one's that outfitted their subordinates.

It was fairly expensive, but it was definitely worth it. It basically makes you invincible, which is a very good thing to be on the battlefield. There's a reason people were willing to pay such large sums of money was because it was worth it.

The guy in the OP could be a knight, or simply a man at arms. The only real difference was social status, as knights were (a rather low rung) nobility.

No, being on horseback didn't put you in a different social class. English knights were famous for preferring to fight on foot, rather than on horseback, so much so that their armor was optimized for foot combat

>>52586376
Does he have a fucking optic strapped to his right forearm?

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Dont mind me, just being /fa/ as fuck

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>>52598421
get on my level pleb

>>52598402
How else he gonna aim his fist u dolt

>>52597627
I did training with the club, long dagger and spear for a few years. A lot of the forms we learned specifically for the club focused on closing the distance and ending with groin or thigh shot.

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>>52561252

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>>52601186
Sup bitches.

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>>52601194

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>>52601213

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CLAIM YOUR HELMFU BEFORE SOMEBODY ELSE DOES

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How is a good way to write 12th century armoured combat? Since armour had only got up to mail and padding at this point, I mean.

What should I keep in mind, what ways could people actually bring eachother down, etc?

>>52601079
What? Surely even an elephant can use a club without much trouble?

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>>52561299
>That feeling when you will never march on Jerusalem to take it back from the saracens in the name of the pope.

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>>52601589
IT'S NOT MEDIEVAL OR ANYTHING BUT I DON'T GIVE A FUCK

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>>52601589

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>>52603013
12thC reenactment is my main thing these days, what sort of things do you want to know?

Also the chap in your picture is very late 13/14thC rather than 12thC. Aside from the sheathed secondary sword pretty much everything he is wearing would be anachronistic in the 1100s.

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damn, check out this dude's armpits
what the fuck

>>52604509
Doh, I was afraid that was the case with my pic. Couldn't find any that was from the time-period I wanted, so I picked what looked closest.

As for what you can help me with, erm...

Perhaps start with how infantrymen would fight? What would be the best ways of taking down other guys with the weapons/armour that they had access to at the time.

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>>52605083
Check out this site, it has a good selection of 12thC illustrations of soldiers.

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/

The basic infantry tactic remains the shield wall, with the kite shield (especially the flat-top kiteshield that deeply curves around the body) offering even more protection than the older round shields did. Spears are the primary weapon, with swords and axes as secondaries. By this stage most soldiers can afford at least a cheap sword relatively easily.

Bows and crossbows are now very common compared to earlier centuries.

Armour: Wealthier warriors wear maille, short or long-sleeved and always with a integral hood. Less well-off or lighter troops rely on their shields and helmets until gambesons are adopted sometime in the mid-12thC, providing a cheap yet effective armour.

While more numerous, the infantry and archers are very much the supporting arms to the cavalry.

Does that help, or are you looking more at how to write a fight scene showcasing period techniques?

>>52605501
More to do with how to write a fight scene, but what you've told me is still helpful. Gonna have to write out the gambeson one guy has if they weren't introduced until later, for starters.

>>52605536
We honestly don't know when gambesons either as armour or padding under maille were first used in Europe other than the earliest evidence to both is mid-12thC.

This is a period where defense is very strong compared to the weaponry. Maille is covering more and more of the body for the wealthier troops and it is very difficult to deliver a knock-out blow through with swords or spears. It's even possible though less likely to withstand lances bruised but otherwise unscathed and numerous accounts have knights covered in arrows yet unharmed.

If you can, read period literature such as Chrétien de Troyes Arthurian Romances which are easily found online. There are basically two types of combat described; the first is where the hero dispatches his foes in one blow that cleaves through helmets and similarly exagerated feats of arms.

The second is more accurate and tallies with historical accounts. It describes how since the armour is so strong combat becomes an endurance match. The two knights go hammer and tongs, helmets are dented, swords bent, shields splintered and maille ripped but no decisive blow can be struck. It's the accumulation of smaller injuries,bruises, blood loss and sheer exhaustion from extreme physical exertion in armour that causes one knight to yield as he can fight no more. Between the effectiveness of the armour, especially compared to the weapons used, and the cult of chivalry which meant that surrender would be honoured and ransom accepted, this period saw very low knightly casualties.

This is not to say that knights or other men-at-arms were invulnerable. Lances were still dangerous and an arrow or sword could always strike a gap or weakspot in the armour (like the face). Even if maille was extremely effective against a sword strike, a battle consists of thousands of sword strikes and between lucky strikes or accumulation knights will die.

cont.

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>>52605958
Battlefield archaeology often produces skeletons with dozens or even over 100 non-fatal injuries marking the bone before the final blow was struck. Exhaustion or being forced to the ground where they are vulnerable claimed even more.

What this means for your story, is that A) it is very difficult and time consuming to defeat an armoured opponent in a straight fight and B) there is a very good chance that defeat does not equal death and you now have a prisoner to deal with.

Ok, fighting techniques.

Basic stance as in the pic, is a low crouch with the shield side forward. This minimises the neck and face as targets, with only a very small slice visible between the shield rim and the helmet. This is important as a blow to the head can be devastating and it is one of the few areas not covered by the long kiteshields. The crouch also extends coverage of the lower legs with the shield. The side-on stance presents a smaller target while allowing full forward mobility. If needed you can step in for the attack, switching to weapon side forward for extra range before returning to the initial stance- the shield foot remains fixed to provide stability while the weapon foot steps forward then back. This does however briefly expose the back on the weapon-side.

Weapons as with the sword in the picture are usually in a high guard with the intent to strike the head or upper body over the shield. Parrying is done, but the shield is the primary defense. Pommel bashing or striking with the quillions allow the sword to be used in extreme close quarters.

The shield is usually held a little way in front of the body, to provide a greater arc of protection and so any blow that does come over or around does not immediatly impact the body.

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>>52601589
Bascinet

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>>52606351
You mention that your story is set too early for gambesons, so maille leg armour is not in use, and hauberks go down to the knee or mid-thigh.

A leg strike, or a spear to the foot is a difficult shot and not a decisive injury but is certainly painful which may provide the opening needed to make a kill shot.

In a fight, team work and communication are the two most important things. Especially with spears, you are most likely to be killed by someone other than the man in front of you. It's hard to block what you can't see coming. Spears are very, very good in anything larger than duels, even knights use them (lances are simply spears used on horseback in this period) if they are fighting on foot.

Fights are confusing, there are no uniforms and everyone is using the same kinds of weapons and armour. Banners and war cries are the only real way to identify sides. Battles are exhausting, and beyond quickly decided skirmishes there will be natural lulls in the fighting as both sides have a breather before the next attack.

Could you give me an example of what sort of scene you wanted to write, so we can go through step by step?

>>52606351
>>52605958
Hrm, right. So far in the story the only opponents have been bandits without proper armour, and the only one who was wearing mail got his hand sliced off because he didn't have gloves as well.

This actually leads me onto another question, how widespread was the typical "mail and kite-shield" type of loadout during this time period?

Only, the party are going to be heading into Outremer soon, and they're probably going to end up fighting some of the remaining Arabs.

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>>52586556
Thanks senpai.

>>52599884
>when some bitch-ass wako samurai be stepping up

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>>52606528
I've done some raiding of Russian websites/got some russian sites bookmarked, so if you want pics just throw me a request.

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>>52580962
>>52584826
>>52587579
>>52588745
>>52588855
I'd petition some translators at Wuxiaworld to translate it. Some of them literally translate webnovels full time, im sure you could find one of them who would accept it as a commission type of thing.

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>>52601589
Deep kettle with eye slits for when you need to tilt it down and still see.
It's the poor man's adjustable visor and it's great.

Rope helmet would be a close second for maximum poorfag head protection

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Without eye slits is also ok.

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I really should upgrade my collection of stuff for common soldiers images. There's bound to have been some good recreations of things since I last looked.

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>>52609105
>I'd petition some translators at Wuxiaworld to translate it.
Good luck with your venture.

From what I skimmed over the only annoying thing to translate would be quotations in Classical Chinese or metallurgical jargon.

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>>52601589
my mind says burgonet but my heart says close helm for that faceless DARK SOULS aesthetic

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>>52609509
great taste but I prefer the reverse: eye slit on a falling buffe/bevor

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Does anyone what type of helmet this is and what is it variant?

>>52565113
I blacken my amour because fuck polishing

>>52611514
bellow visor salet

>>52582800
>how to be a berserk character

>>52609105
Thanks for the hint.

>>52597870
By the time the Ottomans really got underway with that shit Europe had actual plate armor.