So how powerful is this?

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>>52559332
lets you cast all suspend cards immediately

>>52559332
>Yes is can cast AV the turn it comes down
>No it can't

Commence.

>>52559402
this is just superior Roast, which saw a ton of standard play.

I mean its literally Roast, without restrictions, and another card stappled on.

any grixis control deck will run like 4 of these.

Does this turn my Lotus Blooms into Black Lotuses?

>>52559343
>ZADA
>TURN DOUBLER
>BEATSTICKS
>ONWARD TO GLORY
>THIS
ALL THE DAMAGE YOOOOOOO

>>52559463
yes.

>>52559495

wtf I'm rich now

>>52559343
this is monster of a card in some sort of red/black red/green aggro deck.

who even needs pummeler, just pump the fucking team.

>>52559332
this card is instantly a legacy and modern staple, possibly a creator of all new deck.

also fucks any sort of Thalia or other such "taxers"

>>52559446
roast dealt 5 damage, but no flyers is a pretty big restriction. i think it will see some play but i doubt it will be as used as roast, we will see.

>>52559528
how so? explain your thoughts please. IT seems to me that the slowness and the once per turn clause make it pretty useless for modern

>>52559332
I think we've found one of the major reasons of the rules changes for split cards.

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>>52559514
Who needs this when Fling is in the same standard as Pummeler?

>>52559489
>Zada
>Targets two things

>>52559579
It's good for the same reason Aether vial is good, and you arn't locked down to once per turn.
Its pretty damn good.

>>52559635
It said once each turn, though that means once on yours, once on your opponent's

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>>52559426
???

???

>>52559635
Aether Vial costs one mana

>>52559332
So this is basically aether vial that works for everything and also gives you an additional free instant spell, right?

>>52559724
You can't lock in a cmc like Vial can. That's it i think.

>BR shaping up nicely

cool daddy-o

>>52559776
Aether vial also forces you to have the exact cmc, so this thing is superior in three ways(while also costing thrice as much).

>>52559694

see

>>52559349

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>>52559332

>It's Equal to or Less than; not just Equal to
>All spells, not just a single spell type
>Each turns, not just your turn

It's solid and has a lot of potential: especially for a blue. I'll probably include it in my Grixis Control and/or Temur Tower decks. I can't wait to win a game by Flashing in a Torrential Gearhulk for free.

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>>52559426
>>52559432
>>52559463
As far as I can tell, it does work. I think the reason it's worded so weirdly is to account for casting cards from zones other than your hand and to not allow you to get around timing restrictions.

>>52559628
Just cast each part individually

>>52559360
Could be a one of in my delver sideboard to go along with my 2 surgicals. synergizes well with snapcaster thanks to cycling.

>>52559835
That's one happy toobie.

>>52559867
>the year of our lord two-thousand ten and seven
>being this fucking retarded

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>>52559875
This looks good too.

>>52559867
Wut

>>52559938
no it doesn't. I could just play Nihil Spellbomb if I wanted that effect but better.

>>52559938
It's garbage. It could look good if you never saw a piece of GY hate in your life, and even then...
This card is shit.

>>52559343
>Adding injury to insult
You're doing it wrong

>>52559834
>that one anon clinging desperately on the card is shit dreams
that's pretty pathetic.

That's an actual card? Holy hell I am putting this in my populate EDH deck.

>>52560086
It's just Insult to Injury.

>>52560249
But with that card the insult happens first, and then you add the injury afterwards.

>>52560271
They don't care. They just want a (word) to (word) name for the cards.
I never heard of Cut to Ribbons before.

So, Suspend cards that As Foretold can play when dropped:
>Ancestral Visions
>Hypergenesis
>Living End
>Lotus Bloom
>Restore Balance
>Wheel of Fate

Which are worth playing?

>>52560307
Cut to Ribbons is a pretty well known saying.

>>52560321
All of the above.

>>52560307
I was just reading them like split cards. Insult/Injury, Cut/Ribbons

>>52560321
AS FORETOLD DOESN'T WORK WITH CARD WITH NO MANA COST (MANA COST =/= CMC)

>>52560369

>>52559834

>>52560380
A DELUSIONAL TRIPFAG'S OPINION MEANS NOTHING

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>>52559970
>>52560011
Uncommon bears with upside, "garbage"!!!
If this is the world we live in then I don't want to live in it anymore.

>>52560399
That's a legal judge

>>52560369
please...just stop

>>52560404
>someone mentions playing a card as a sideboard card in MODERN
>compares to a 2 mana 2/2 that is almost a strict downgrade compared to Scooze

>>52560413
Ah yes, a """judge"""

Those can't ever be wrong, right?

>>52560413
that doesn't have provided any decent explanation...

>>52560448
Well, they generally have a pretty good understanding of the rules. Unlike you.

>>52559332
"For a spell you cast"
I assume that means it doesn't work with suspend, as you'd have to actually cast the card to be able to pay zero (0) for it.

>>52560464
She says further that it's making it an alternate cost. Since it's "Pay 0 RATHER THAN pay the mana cost", it turns a mana cost of null into a mana cost of 0.

>>52560419
I'm currently enjoying all the hating neckbeards getting aneurysm. Please don't stop it.

>>52560399
He's the judge who makes the judge threads, so his opinion has more weight then you think. I'm not saying what he said is definitely right, we'll have to wait and see for the rulings.

>>52560404
I'm not sure that ability qualifies as an "upside" when it's such hot garbage and requires you to sacrifice your bear.

Listen if you don't like this world why don't you warp back to Kamigawa where most of these card power levels seem to be coming from.

>>52560514
>Implying kamiya was had low power levels
U wot m8

>>52560369
>>52560399
I don't understand you idiots, Ancestral Visions specifically works with Fist of Suns, and Fist of Suns is worded exactly like As Foretold right down to the awkward "rather than" and "you could cast" clauses, and we have a great comprehensive rule 117.6 and 117.6a to clear shit up to tell you you can do this but apparently this is a teenage Tibetan tapestry forum and so we're obliged to just argue incessantly about things that don't really matter in the grand scheme of life.

In that light, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE BTFO FAGGOT CRY HARDER BECAUSE YOU'RE WRONG HAHAHA GO SUCK A (((DICK)))

>>52560506
one of the worst wording ever, couldn't they just write "once each turn, you can cast a spell from your hand with converted mana cost X without paying its mana cost, where X is the number of time counter." ?

>>52560664
But then you could cheat out suspend cards

>>52560545
It had some really stupid mechanics that made you cut off a limb and use it to buttfuck the ashes of your ancestors just to get like a +1/+1 until end of turn.

Look I know we look at Jitte, Gifts, Lava Spike, Top and Sakura Tribe Elder with nothing but fond memories but you also gotta remember that they were the deviations to the mean that was stuff like Numai Outcast.

>>52560689
But you already can with the present wording though.

>>52560650
>I don't understand you idiots, Ancestral Visions specifically works with Fist of Suns, and Fist of Suns is worded exactly like As Foretold right down to the awkward "rather than" and "you could cast" clauses, and we have a great comprehensive rule 117.6 and 117.6a to clear shit up to tell you you can do this but apparently this is a teenage Tibetan tapestry forum and so we're obliged to just argue incessantly about things that don't really matter in the grand scheme of life.

Why do I get the feeling Wizards is going to change the ruling on how suspend card works like they did with split cards?

>>52560737
Yeah I think they might, knowing the fuckers.

You'd be looking the change the ruling on Costless spells though.

>>52560737
I'm sure the brain aneurysms have killed several of the useless sack of shits here so even if they do change it, it's all good.

>>52560737
Why would they? It basically only works with Ancestral Vision really.

But man, this is pretty exciting.

>>52560664

Would that version interact differently with Thalia and sphere effects?

>>52560700
I hope ninjutsu comes back one day. It's such a cool and unique mechanic with so much potential it's a shame we have it on only like 10 cards or so

>>52560819
Nevermind, Restore Balance is legal in Modern.

Haha, this is so going to get banned.

>>52560737
rip in peace living end
j/k you were trash anyway

>>52560819
Lotus Bloom my nigga, I'm not sure Wizards wants their most expensive (((Collector's))) card to be playable in Modern

>>52559579
You can cast Ancestral Vision or Restore Balance the turn it comes down.

This is going to be a deck.

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Look at this hippo going RRREEEEEEE over As Foretold

Are you guys aware that there is this little card called thirst for knowledge That draws 3 cards for 3 mana and two cards.
It's pretty busted, don't tell anyone about it.

>>52560907
Lol.

I just had to reread it.

It's
once

each

turn

Ancestral Vision is an instant

So you can go, cast this, cast Restore Balance, do your shit, pass turn, cast Ancestral Vision during opponent's turn.

Jesus.

>>52560945
>Ancestral Vision is an instant
I hate to break this to you familia...

>>52560964
Well, fuck. Right.

Damn it.

>>52560913
oh wow i can tap out for my 3 mana draw 3 cards discard 1 now and immediately die
>>52559724
aether vial is 1 mana
>>52560938
fuck i already typed my catty response

>>52561032
oh wow Restore Balance

Don't be dumb.

>counters when tapped out
Woah. To slow for legacy I think, but it might make interesting modern stuff.

>>52560819
>>52560837
>>52560907
>>52560945
>>52560964
>>52561054
>>52561071
The real shame is that Hypergenesis is banned in Modern or else we'd have ourselves a proper Show and Tell deck in the format.

>>52561110
Hypergenesis doesn't need As Foretold to be busted.

>>52561054
>playing restore balance
what happens when you don't draw as foretold

>>52561165
when i don't draw as foretold, i would be having 8 lightning bolts in my hand so that's not an issue at all.

>>52561222
i don't get this meme

>>52560919
Predictions for the aftermath cards in HoD?
>Cheek//Cheek
>Got//Go
>Man//Woman
>Tear//Shreds
>Went//Shit
>Dare//Dream
>Means//End

>>52561381
Working//Freedom

>>52560664
See
>>52559839

>>52561381
I like Need//Shit and Go//Hell

>>52561381
Hell//U
9S//B
I just want//Say I love you
Shakur//Pac
It takes two//Tango
Can you feel the love//Night

>>52561165
Well, you will still run Ancestral Visions and Path to Exile and probably Lightning Bolt if you go red.

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>>52561381

>>52559432
It can't. As Foretold lets you pay an alternative cost as you're casting it; can anyone explain to me when you think you're casting AV from your hand?

>>52561515
>Well, you will still run Ancestral Visions and Path to Exile and probably Lightning Bolt if you go red.
so you're a u/w control deck (lol) that plays restore balance and no countermagic

fuck i just realised that you can play instants on your opponent's turn with this

>>52561627
Well, yeah, you still need to interact with shit.

>fuck i just realised that you can play instants on your opponent's turn with this
Yup.

>>52561627
This thing kind of makes 3 mana counters playable in standard?

Three turns and you no longer need to hold up mana for counterspells

For anyone who missed it.
>Yes, you can use As Foretold to cast a card with an unpayable mana cost (like AV). Rule 117.6a, for those of you scoring at home.
https://twitter.com/TabakRules/status/849759413581750272

With all this talk of suspend, why can't the expertise cards cast stuff like Restore Balance while this can?

>>52559332
I'm hyped and also really annoyed that I need to get 4 visions again to brew this deck.

Also turn 3 wheel of fate

>>52561626
Anytime you could cast it legally, since all the comprehensive rule are set up to allow you attempt to put it on the stack despite it not having a casting cost. See rules 117.6 and 117.6a as well as the whole of 601, though I know you probably won't because all of the fucks in Facebook certainly haven't despite our repeatedly assertions.

>>52561666
They can though ?

>>52561657
3 turns after you tapped out for a brick on turn 3
>>52561666
>why can't the expertise cards cast stuff like Restore Balance
they can tho?

>>52561689
So why all the hubbub?

>>52561626
>once each turn, you may pay 0 rather than pay the mana cost for a spell you cast with converted mana cost X or less, where X is the number of time counters on As Foretold
>Ancestrall Visions has CMC 0
>When As Foretold has zero time counters on it X is 0 or less
>Announce you are casting Ancestral Visions paying 0 using As Foretold's ability
It's not rocket science

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>>52561657
Janky but pic.
I hate to admit it but it can't be played on standard. It's currently too fast for control deck right now.

>>52561696
That's a one time only thing, this stays in the battlefield, also even without cheating in suspend stuff, this could still be a good card even if played as intended. Taking a turn off to resolve this in u/w control is feasible. Casting cryptics for free...elspeth...my games go like 30 turns anyways

>>52561687
Well fuck me. Every time I think I know the rules, some crazy new shit comes up. Time to just take some Adderall and read them all.

>>52561627
>be against red burn
>play restore balance on turn 3
>lol there goes my fucking hand because I'm against a hellbent red player
>at least if I draw AV next turn I can play it for free if they don't just fucking kill me
You could also just run supreme verdict a turn later, and hold up mana for path, counter spells and draw.

>>52561381
>Boys: Create two 1/1 white human creature tokens.
>Men: Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control.

>>52561736
Sideboards exist.

So do you guys think this with Wheel of Fate would be viable?

>>52560919
I demand an edit of this where both halves of the card are Mouth.

>>52561728
Thanks for taking the time to read it btw, I've had literal idiots who don't even know the difference between mana cost and cmc and people who don't know the first of when costs are paid for spells try and come up to me on Facefuckers to tell me how I'm wrong despite how I've presented all comprehensive rules and Oracle rulings and clearly worded examples. I swear to God I'm not a Melvin but Jesus fucking Christ the complexes on these fucking idiots.

I genuinely didn't know it worked that way either until today. I do agree the wording is pretty shit though.

>>52561771
yeah and they have limited space
>>52561775
why not just play day's undoing then, you're spending the same amount of mana

>>52561825
But your turn ends...

>>52561825
Because day's undoing doesn't require you to waste two cards, have an enchantment on the board, and can be used with quicken. Duh.

>>52561803
Well at least this is some complex shit that you can't expect a majority of players to know. I consider myself pretty up on the rules (or I did anyways) and I never knew you can "attempt" to cast a spell even if you don't have the mana or costs for it.

Still, if I had a dollar for every time I had to argue and try to prove to someone that removing the source of a trigger doesn't counter the trigger, I'd have enough to build a T1 legacy deck.

>>52561825
Because once you land it you can play it any turn you want for free

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>>52559343
THIS WOULD GO GREAT IN MY HIDETSUGU EDH DECK!

>>52561825
And the same amount of mana as Wheel of Fortune and Timetwister.

It's also entirely irrelevant how many cards you use when are drawing a full new hand following.

>>52559332
So can you cast cards like AV or restore balance the turn it drops or no?

>>52561865
>>52561825
Honestly, it's just that I remember how crazy good Balance is, and being able to cheese it in Modern makes my weewee hard.

>>52561890
Yes, you can. And then a free instant during the opponent's turn if you find one.

>>52561890
You can. The big boss of ruling have decreed it. >>52561658

>>52560919

>Green is steadily getting better and better at card drawing

Did they talk about how they needed to push Green on some Blogatog post two years ago or something?

>>52561918
No, they saw market data suggesting Timmies liked green cards so they gave the color every ability on the color pie

>>52561858
>But your turn ends...
what could you possibly draw in 7 cards that you could play
>>52561880
so it's a 3 cmc mana dork
>>52561888
there's debate as to whether those cards would be good in modern seeing how bad the fast mana is

>>52559528
>Legacy staple
No. It's Blue, it's an Enchantment, and it's in the most awkward mana spot it could be; where it's both too slow to be broken and yet still dies to Abrupt Decay. Maybe Modern can do some meme-shit with it, but it's not even close to Legacy playable - much less staple.

>>52561935
Uh... Simian Spirit Guide, Rite of Flame, Desperate Ritual, Seething Song, Seething Song, Past in Flames and Grapeshot?

Did you really have to ask?

>>52561996
>any of that that is legal
>good fast mana
They banned rite and seething song.
Both for basically 0 reason.

>>52561996
>Rite of Flame, Seething Song, Seething Song
when was the last time you played modern anon
>>52562024
>Both for basically 0 reason.
the reason was that a critical mass of rituals lets dumb things happen

>>52562038
Yeah, 1 deck getting 8th in a PT was clearly OP unless it got 3 of its cards banned instead of only 2.

>>52562038
>Dumb
My mommy tells me that's what rude people say when I have "fun".

>>52562084
>>52562092
idc that much
>>52562122
tryhard

>>52561886
is that a motherfucking jojo reference

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>>52559373
>4 mana
>for -2/-2
>and nothing else

What the fuck happened? Why are they slowly killing boardwipes? Is the next set gonna have a 4 mana vanilla sorcery -1/-1?

>>52562293
But three turns later you get your opponent's weakest creature!

>>52562376
For 7 mana!

>>52562293

I think you're suppose to wipe of the board if all their shit creatures, then the only thing they can give you are the good creatures.

>>52559599
Whooooooooa. Back up. What rule change?

>>52559332
>>52559839
I don't see how that applies to greater gargadon. CMC doesn't change except for X cards and maybe split cards (with the new rule)

>>52559332
aether vial > as foretold

>>52562413
Oh man, anon, I'm so sorry, I hope you weren't playing Bird Brain because (((WotC))), a Hasbro Subsidiary, decided it was better to reward new players for being new and complaining than to reward veteran player who understood their rules and... well... killed the deck.

They're not one bit sorry and are happy they did the right thing. Magic is now a better place for (((ALL)))

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/amonkhet-split-card-rules-changes-2017-04-04

>>52562465
They go in entirely different decks

>>52562376
I take it all back! I could use a gideon 2/2 knight on turn 7 or 8 when I'm at negative 14 life

>>52562407
Even if they toned it down because they thought the aftermath was too """""""""strong""""""""""" you could have made it at least a -3/-3. I mean we just got languish and fuck Drown in Sorrow wasn't that long ago.

>>52562471
Rewarding knowledge of unintuitive rules isn't a good thing. Making rules more intuitive is a good thing.

>>52562530
Uh, have you SEEN the legal system?

>>52562530
Wrong

>>52562530
Ugh. Yes but many-- most-- too many of the split cards are just not that great and that tiny loop hole allowed them--... some of them to be played in a casual setting.

Now that number is are even less.

Less confusing, definitely agreed, now people will KNOW aside from a hand full of decent ones, many split cards are garbage.

>>52561381
Ass//Mouth

>>52561692
A brick that gives you value the entire game by your next turn. If you're a control deck then you can eventually cast any card in your deck for free at some point.

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>>52559332
>>52559432

>>52562619
what the fuck????????????

>>52562611
Exactly. I'm excited to try it. Maybe it's dope, maybe not, but the hype train sure is fun. Wooo wooo! All aboard! Next stop: value town.

>>52562641
Works exactly the same as Fist of the Suns. This isn't anything new.

>>52562641
What you weren't shitposting and actually thought you couldn't do it? Rules 117.6 and 117.6a, son.

WIZARDS WHERE ARE MY SPOILERS

>>52562293
looks like a limited bomb
>>52562611
it does not give you value on your next turn, it gives you 1 mana on your next turn and 1 mana on your opponent's turn

it barely breaks even on your second turn after playing it and you're down in card disadvantage
> If you're a control deck
this is modern lol

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>>52559332
You know the real beauty of this? I mean beyond the shitstorm it's created between it and Ancestral Visions?

It's a Time Counter.

Someone already posted a similar concept, but it works with Jhoira's Timebug and Timecrafting.

>>52561705
AV has no cost. It does not cost zero.

>>52559332
>Blue gets ramp now

THANKS MARO

>>52562708
But it has a converted mana cost is zero because when you add all the symbols on its cost up you get zero.

See also: Living End Combo; Goblin Dark Dwellers + AV

>>52562708
It does not have a casting cost. It does have a CONVERTED mana cost, however. If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to cast it with Cascade (Which specifies a lower CMC).

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We've entered the spoil vanilla common creatures phase already

Kill me

>>52562763
Pretty sure that was spoiled purely for flavor reasons (To help characterize the green god). Some people like seeing that kind of spoiler too, you know.

>>52562596

No, pretty sure he's right.

>>52562708
calm down sonny adults are talking here

>>52562471

Huh. Isochron Scepter just got WAY worse.

>>52562673
Aren't most counterspells 2 mana? Besides, as soon as amonket comes out we'll see if it's as good as its supposed to be.

>>52562763
We've entered the /tg/ complaining about cards created specifically for limited play phase already

Kill yourself

>>52562905
It's not even good in Limited.

>>52562896
>Aren't most counterspells 2 mana?
i don't see what that has to do with anything

>>52562941
>easily splashable 5/5 for 5
>not good in limited

Do you even draft?

>>52562956
>Limited
>the format for the most timmy babies that cannot play real magic

>>52562956
woah a 5/5 vanilla for 5

it's solid filler

>>52562763

>Amonkheturd

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>Sign in blood is 2stronk4standard
Let magic die already

>>52562956
Limited have been improving nowadays. A 5/5 vanilla for 5 is mostly filler now especially in green.

>>52561381
Pay//Win. Pay side would be a counter target spell unless its controller pays (x). Win side would be pay an absurd amount of mana to cast it and win.

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>>52562996
>deck building on the fly is too hard for my kitchen table brain so I'll claim the best format in the entire game is for timmy

>>52563004
Yes, you are correct, it is a solid mid/late pick playable.

>>52563038
It's worse than Live Fast which at least gives you two energy

>>52563038
>The "Let MTG die" meme
It's survived for over twenty years and it'll last for twenty more.

>>52563083
T. Maro

>>52563038
2B draw 2 is substantially better than BB draw 2 in limited

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>>52563080
>Playing shitty decks with awful cards in purpouse because my brain is too small for any interaction besides blocking a creature
Go back where you belong

>>52563083

But at what cost

>>52563074
>it's a mythic chase card

>>52563080
>it is a solid mid/late pick playable.
that's not what "good in limited" means

>>52563121
>I HAVE TO PLAY AT FULL POWER THE ENTIRE TIME
>I CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO BUILD A DECK THAT ISN'T ANYTHING BUT AGGRO IN LIMITED SO IT MUST BE THE FORMAT'S FAULT

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the few people within my large play group who happen to hate draft also happen to be the worst players, right?

>>52563164
>>52563062
Post better common green finishers in limited then.

>>52563199
common green finishers aren't good in limited

>>52563176
Yeah, sure, show me when a draft deck is as complex ad DDFT, TES, eggs, Spanish inquisitoon, etc.
Oh wait you cant because limited is shit and a format for cryers like you

>>52559332
Ban on release for EDH?

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>>52563216
This guy was pretty good

But the rest of green's offerings that set sucked

>>52563083
>It's survived for over twenty years
Yes
>and it'll last for twenty more.
Now that's a fucking leap in logic if I've ever seen one. Magic could die this year.

>>52563250
Standard is certainly dying.

>>52563217
>a format where you're forced to build decks from a relatively random allotment of cards isn't as complex as [insert legacy net deck here]

Wow, you sure showed me. Just because you 0-3 at every limited event does not mean the format isn't complex and does not allow for interesting interactions. But feel free to keep explaining to me how turn three and four legacy and modern wins make for a good format.

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>>52562763
>X-pede
>Insect

Arthropod errata when.

>>52563249
I'll agree with that.

>>52563328
I fondly remember having a big green deck with Vorapede as the figurehead. Why can't wizards make any awesome cool green creatures like that anymore?

>>52563083
Yes but it's only gonna survive twenty more if we shit all over WotC when they do something dumb like this.

>>52563038
>Can't even reprint read the bones

>>52563381
But scry isn't evergree- Waaaaaaaaait.

What the fuck wizards.

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>>52563363
sadly, Vorapede was only viable in my meta pre-avacyn's return, I liked it a lot too.

I know this one shook it up when it came out, but not sure it it counts as "green".

>>52563381
to be fair, you can't kill someone with read the bones.

>>52562719
>>52563228
>Enchantment
>A FUCKING ENCHANTMENT

Its literally the easiest thing to get rid of and creates mana advantage in all colors.

>>52563781

Easiest thing to get rid of is a creature, anon.

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>>52563806
I disagree

>>52563895
Are you stupid or just trolling?

>>52563083
>It survived for 15 years and it'll suffer for at least 15 more
ftfy

>>52563895
wow, a silver bullet card that will only be played starting 2nd game if enchantments are prominent. sure is comparable to mainboarding removal for a type that a majority of decks play.

>all these mongs thinking this is going to see play outside maybe standard
top fucking kek.

Can't wait to be picking up a playset of these for a dollar in two months.

>>52562956
>splashable

are you retarded? you don't splash for a fucking vanilla 5/5

>>52561381
It's Time: Scry 1, draw a card.
Duel: Target creature gains double strike until end of turn.

>>52564036
Splash-able
Not
splash-worthy
Relax

>>52564302
That is a pointless distinction. Splashing is entirely dependent on functionality. If something isn't splashworthy then it's not fucking splashable. Don't waste my time with semantics.

>>52561463
>Hell//U
Could this be?

>>52564380
Gideon will die in this block, only for his father to take his place.
And then WoTC immediately backpedals and surprise, Gideon didn't actually die and this guy was him all along.

>>52564342
But it's important to the point the anon was making? How easy a card is to splash is very different than reasons why you would want to splash for it. Anon was talking about the cards splashability as a virtue, which is a common assessment. Cryptic Command and phyrexian obliterator, for example are great cards that would be better if they didn't have such restrictive casting costs.

>>52563144
>enchantment similar to counterbalance
>whenever your opponent plays a spell, you may reveal the top card of your library. If you do, counter that spell if it's rarity is less then the revealed card
>art is the Jacestice League in a circlejerk

>>52564722
>Liliana, Chandra, and Nissa in a daisy chain

I could get behind that

>>52561626
Casting a spell doesn't work the way you think it does. The steps goes like this according to the rules:
>Announce that you're casting a spell
>If the spell requires targets, announce them now
>If you can't announce legal targets, you can't cast the spell
>Now pay the casting cost
>If you can't pay for the spell, you can't cast it
Normally you can't cast AV from your hand because it doesn't have a mana cost. As Foretold let's you pay 0, however, thus giving it a casting cost and making it castable.

>>52563909
You're talking about different types of easy. Creatures are the easiest permanents to get rid of in the sense that you play more removal for them and often in the main. Enchantments are mechanically easier to get rid of as can be seen in that enchantment removal is always cheaper than creature removal.

>>52565082
>Enchantments are mechanically easier to get rid of
But that's wrong.
>enchantment removal is always cheaper than creature removal
That may be true in a general sense, but only because narrow strategies get narrow (and cheaper) answers. Both creatures and enchantments can both be destroyed for 0 mana if you really want to get technical and pull out niche sideboard (at best) cards

While any color in the game can destroy creatures, only 2 colors have easy enchantment removal. Red, black, and blue get jack shit. Quit being dense on purpose, you're not fooling anyone.

>>52559332
its too early for thinking, can someone simplify this? because i cannot wrap my head around the wording

>>52565205
at your upkeep put one counter on it

once a turn you can cast something for free with cmc equal or less than how many counter it have.

>>52565205
aether vial for spells

>>52560464
>that doesn't have provided any decent explanation...
wut?

>>52565189
Bounce might as well be removal for a card that builds up one counter a turn, so blue's got that.

>>52559332

This card is going to get Suspend Cards errata'd or banned 100%.

>Restore Balance
>Living End
>Lotus Bloom
>Ancestral Visions

If you were looking on cards to spec.

>>52559835
>waiting nine turns to do this.

>>52559402
Is there any notable 4 toughness creature beside Grim Flayer with Delirium.

>>52561705
AV doesn't have a casting cost.

>>52565589
Heart of K--

>>52565640
still works

>>52565640
It doesn't need one. It's CMC is still 0, and As Foretold only looks at the CMC and checks if it has more counters or not.

>>52565640
Thus it had a converted mana cost of zero, fulfilling what As Foretold is looking for. This is like the millionth time we've had to educate you lower intelligence mongrels, learn the fucking rules some time, and stop contributing to the problem.

>>52565640
the card doesnt give a shit about the casting cost though, it cares only about CMC

>>52560367
Split cards use "and." "Odds and Ends," "Breaking and Entering," "Fire and Ice."

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FUCK OFF ABOUT IT.

It's done, this is how they're ruling it.

>>52566014

Not these particular kinds of split cards, because you're playing them in sequence, not at the same time like Breaking/Entering.

>>52566043
I meant the "pre-Amonkhet" ones. The Amonkhet ones use "to"

>>52566041

How is it that so many people don't know what Living End does as a deck?

>>52566057
I don't know man. I'm actually really excited about Restore Balance with this.

>balance
Ugghh there goes all creature decks.

>>52566131
Creatures are spells, anon.

>>52561463
Shaking//Head
Honesty//Family

>>52566057
It boggles the fucking mind. We just had Goblin Dark Dwellers recently too so people really don't have the fucking excuse citing Snapcaster Mage like the brazen pillocks that they are.

What's worst is the fuckers who interpret wrong so far all have been stating it like they know what the fuck they're talking about like they're the goddamn expert on it. Bitch if you're so good at Magic how have you not faced Living End/Goblin Dark Dwellers at least once?

>>52565557
I don't want to have to play Blue (unless there's another reason to play Blue) to use As Foretold with Living End. The upside is that their creatures will be summoning sick and can't attack you on their turn; the downside is that you need Living End in your hand and having that, Foretold, and letting your opponent untap before you cast it on their turn with possible countermagic or Ooze up is just Christmas Land.

Same thing with Restore Balance as Living End; you build your deck around getting Balance to happen when you want it. We're always going to rather Cascade than As Foretold because Cascade only takes one card and As Foretold takes two - the Foretold and the Balance.

Lotus Bloom also is useless because if it's in your hand at T3 it's somewhat a dead draw and now you've used two cards (Bloom and Foretold) and 3-mana to get a Black Lotus. I don't feel like that additional value is going to justify using a dead card like Lotus in whatever deck As Foretold wants to be in.

Ancestral Visions I can see the value there; however the decks that want Visions I'm uncertain are the decks that want As Foretold. As Foretold is just a huge mana savings and costs 3-fucking mana, which is a tall order for the Eternal formats and Modern because the card doesn't seem to yield sufficient value fast enough to do anything good in those formats.

If As Foretold is good, it will be good for non-Suspend reasons.

>>52566179
>cast creature
>faggot plays balance
>lol I have 0 creatures u need to sacrifice all urs
>lol imma just attack with a single artifact

>>52566320
It also fucks Tron up, so there's something.

>>52566320
You could do that before. Restore Balance has been flirting with playability for years now.

>>52566344
I don't think it will. Tron needs 7. And just keeping the urza lands is 3, matching the three you'll need to cast as foretold.

And eldrazi tron just needs chalice on 0

>>52566320
>Suspend Gargadon
>Cast As Foretold
>Sac all your lands to Garg
>Cast Restore Balance

Modern will be fun again.

>>52566305

You can play As Foretold with cascade. It solves one of the problems of the decks, which is having the suspend cards dead in your hand.

>>52561381
You can't have two cards with the same name do different things.

>>52566369
>he thinks you'll ever have lands on the field when you play Restore Balance.

>>52566375
This guy knows what's up.

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>>52566369
>And eldrazi tron just needs chalice on 0

>>52566402
The decks that play the Suspend cards don't give a fuck if they draw the actual Suspend cards. Playing a card to deal with a dead draw nets you very little value; I dare say it nets you negative value over any of the other cards in the deck.

I see some lists play a single copy of Kari-Zev's expertise in Living End and I think it's a waste; you are better off in most situations with the 4th copy of Living End or another cycler.

If As Foretold was simply another Violent Outburst or Demonic Dread then yes, we can talk. But it isn't. It plays more or less exactly like Kari-Zev's Expertise and we're not jamming 4 copies of that at all not to mention it's Blue.

For what it matters I've played a lot of Living End in all its Jund iterations. You can't name me a single card I'd take out to replace with As Foretold.

>>52564449
But Heliod is stuck on Theros being the God of Dickasses

>>52566552
>It plays more or less exactly like Kari-Zev's Expertise
>Card that stays on the field and constantly ticks up
>Can potentially let you just say fuck it and play Greater Gargadon if the game drags long enough

I don't think most anybody is looking at playing it in Living End instead of Restore Balance

>>52566596
Just my opinion man, but I think the Restore Balance decks are some real jank. Just super fringe jank that establishes Control using significantly shittier cards than your conventional WUR Control decks and the cards that are substituted from WUR Control are not expensive either; we're talking about Bolts and Mana Leaks here. Playing Gargadons and Borderposts in the place of those is just super deep.

I don't see why they'd want to go deeper into the jank using As Foretold. The upsides are totally not going to help the deck do anything it's trying to do better or faster. It's only going to make the deck more fragile; too fragile to even be considered a casual fringe deck. It would simply be considered a deck that is too inefficient having started as a highly inefficient deck to begin with.

>>52562441
Wut

>>52559426
>lets you cast all suspend cards with cmc 0 because they only have a suspend cost immediately.

ftfy

Fascinating how the argument's gone from
>This card can't be played this way. It doesn't work. Just wait, they're going to clarify that it doesn't work. That's why it's a trash mythic that will never see constructed play.
to
>Well, even if it can't be played, it's not like it's going to be good anything. It's bad. It's a trash mythic that's never going to see play in any constructed format.

>>52566596
> "I'm going to survive to turn 20+ against any real modern deck"

Annnnd we're done here.

>>52567157
Enjoy the ride anon, i've been laughing like crazy since it's reveal. Have you seen that one anon on the judge thread who desperately clinging on no it can't be played argument?

>>52559446
fucking roasties

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>>52559426
Doesnt work bro. Read the oracle text on those suspend cards m8o. Pic related, last box

>>52567376
How about you scroll up to the first oracle text dumbass.

>>52562708
READ THE FUCKING RULES

>>52567376
read the card
>you may pay 0 rather than pay the mana cost
>rather than
and additionally, because those spells have no cost, their CMC is 0 and can therefore be played the moment the enchantment comes out because it only checks CMC.
meanwhile snippercaster mage and djinn illuminatus use the mana cost from the card directly, and since you can't pay a null mana cost, you can't use those abilities (which is also why you can't cast it from your hand).

>>52563038
Oh yeah but just imagine pinging your opponent for 2 for a win!

>>52567189

It does happen, and has a way greater chance of happening in a deck like Restore Balance where the whole point is setting your opponent back on resources. Also, I don't even know where you're pulling 20 from, the scenario I laid out would be more Turn 12 or 13, depending on how quickly you would have gotten As Foretold out with a Simian Spirit Guide.

>>52562763
Is it me or is green like the best fucking color to go for in limited?

>Colossapede
>Pouncing Cheetah
>Crocodile at the Crossing
>Trial of Strength
>Exemplar of Strength
>Rhona's monument

Like seriously most of these creatures have either on curve or incredible fucking stats for their CMC, taking a dip in white to get cheap embalming creatures to dump -1/-1 counters on, cheap buffs or general purpose removal.

The only things that can really fuck up green's gameplan is essence scatter and angler drake, the other colors don't have creatures that are as mana efficient as green's in the common or uncommon rarity or removal outside of 1 or 2 that can effectively deal with the 3-5 toughness creatures outside of rares and mythics.

I know its still too early in the spoilers to make any concrete predictions but that's my general impression so far.

>>52559938
this hoses my reanimator deck

>>52561381
>Ass//Titties

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>>52563080
>Limited
>best format

>>52561381
>Fire//Hole
>Fast/Furious
>Need//Speed
>Highway//Danger Zone
>Pride//Prejudice
>Pray//Spray
>Mice//Men
>Bros//Hoes
>Bat//Insane
>Choke//Hold
>Birds//Bees
>Chocolate//Rain

>>52559938
I saw some landwhale claiming that this would be a good "budget option" in Modern for GY hate. I can only imagine she doesn't know Tormod's Crypt is only 25 cents, or she considers the $2 that Relic costs to be prohibitively expensive.

>>52559332
It may see play in Standard where it's mediocre. It will probably see play in Modern until it's banned, because people WILL try and probably succeed in breaking the informal rules about what turn you're allowed to win by. It will probably see play in Legacy where it will be banned because of the whole LITANY of unfair things you can do with it that were almost by definition unintended by WotC... because they don't test for formats that don't make them money.

Verdict: I'm setting the game aside for a few months.

>>52567680
>Verdict: I'm setting the game aside for a few months.
Do like me: play limited to stay away from the constructed formats bullshit

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>recheck Gideon
>the emblem says that any Gideon can be on board
Bullshit. On top of the Gideon itself dodging everything but grasp, this means that new Gideon actually die, just plop down AoZ which is a metric pain in the ass to kill. Preventing all damage Godeon is dealt was a mistake. If he an swing, then his damage should be taken from the loyalty counters so you don't have a 5/5 or 4/4 which is unkillable to everything except sorc speed walker removal.

This isn't even going into how awful it already is in standard to fight against walker.deks if you're not running Mardu vehicles or cat combo.

>>52567771
He's meant to be a living trial, anon. He's not here to defeat you, but to outlast you.

>>52567771
Once again, WotC fucked royally.
>The sets are designed years in advance
>The change to two-sets blocks was also planned in advance (obviously)
>BfZ Gideon and AKH Gideon weren't supposed to be in the same standard at all (Return to Zendikar block would have rotated when Amonkhet is released)

Fast forward to a few months ago, WotC reverse the rotation change (that reversal wasn't planned in advance) and probably create Gideons Summer
Good job Wizards.

>>52559613
Pummeler unfortunately exists in the same standard as Walking Ballista, so RIP any shenanigans.

>>52567972
Pummeler and Ballista unfortunately exist in the same standard as Appetite for the Unnatural, Decomission, Fragmentize and (for the next six months) Natural State

>>52567771
isn't to the slaughter a good counter to this?

Reprint Beast Within

>>52561381
>You Don't Get//Bring Friends

>>52559360
At least 1 card thats playable in pauper

>>52568053
>Powerful cards exist in the same standard as narrow answers!

>>52567524
It's always the best color. There is zero question to that. It always gets above-curve toughness and power for its mana. That alone will trump anything any other color throws at it. I don't remember what core set it was but it had Garruk's Companion which was a GG 3/2 with Trample and Green fucking sucked to draft that set, but who cares, it still had above curve motherfuckers and they still hit harder than anything else.

Nice 2/3 or 3/2 for 3, I get a 3/3 for 3. I also get a 3/4 or 4/3 for 4 mana, 5/5s for 5 mana while other colors get a 4/4 and I also get Giant Spider. Game's 20+ years old and Craw Wurm (who has only gotten better) still wins games.

Take advantage of every other color for removal.

Guess what, everyone says combat tricks fucking suck even though they don't anymore. You can just play Giant Growth non-stop and win games if you don't have the removal because everyone still thinks it's a shit card. In Innistrad I won so many games off the back of Spidery Grasp. People looked at me funny except I just Flashed in a goddamn Giant Spider.

>>52559343
WORT
JUST
FUKCING

>>52567680
You have brain damage

>>52565640
how did you get through high school with shit reading comprehension

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Forget about your free suspend spells and your platinum Gideons, the real powerhouse of Amonkhet is here.

>>52568904
>no embalm
toobad

>>52568904
>5 Mana for 7 power across 3 bodies
>Cat Lord
>Neat flavor text
>CAT LORD

>>52568945
>Wanting to turn a neat rare into a chase mythic
I don't want my cat lord to cost 10 bucks

>>52568904

...my question: Is Cat Goddess the cat type?

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>>52568976
You don't want to see a wrapped up cat?

>>52568990
Yes but Oketra is gonna be a Legendary Creature - God only, like the others

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>>52569012

>>52569012
I have yet to see an embalm token art that impress me
They are all looking like the normal cards on purpose, I know that and understand why, but still

>>52561110
>Wanting hyperGenesis

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>>52568904
I have a home where it can be a decent finisher

>>52567558
You get to keep 2 cards though

>>52568904
>4x Regal Caracal
>4x Felidar Guardian
>4x Cataclysmic Gearhulk
>4x Oketra's Monument

Seems like a decent mono white midrange shell, get Oketra;s Monument out and just beat the opponent with sheer value from your 4 CMC regal Caracals, Cataclysmic gearhulks, flickering them with felidar guardian or that angel.

>>52569128

Stop trying to turn me furry, dammit.

>>52569301

Wouldn't Cataclysmic Gearhulks play against your creature swarm strategy?

>>52569301
The problem with lords is you're basically giving your opponent a combat trick. You can't block his 2/2 with your 3/3 because you might just wind up trading.

>>52562471
Holy fucking shit cry harder you faggot

>>52566417
I never liked the post plan with the deck.

>>52568896
I didn't say it couldn't be cast just said it had 0 cmc. What's wrong with you autists?

>>52568896
The ability shouldn't have the words "you cast" in it. That's the problem here. Without them it makes complete sense.

>>52568904
OH SHIIIIIIT CAT TRIBAL

>>52568904
Five mana for 7 lifelink power on the board, 4 of which lingers? Isn't this Verdurous Gearhulk?

>>52559332
>Manglehorn kills Heart AND shuts down the combo

Is Standard saved?

>>52567661
You don't get to play anymore

>>52570909
>4 of which lingers?
You mean 2. This card and lords like it are shit becase you're giving your opponent an additional combat trick they get when they play a removal spell.

>>52563425
>but not sure it it counts as "green".

Why wouldn't it?

>>52568904
I'm glad that wizards is making meme tribal lords preemptively now. Like the aetherborn lord. I'm sick of hearing people whine about "muh bears" and if they hadn't made that aetherborn we would have heard whining for one of those for ages. So it's good to get this checked off the list.

And, by itself, it's actually a good card.

>>52572114
>5 mana
>Only 7 power with the downside of losing the lord being a combat trick against you
Sorry bud but Verdant Gearhulk has set the benchmark of 5 mana creatures at 8 power with no downsides now.