They didn't nerf Tomb of Horrors again, did they?

>>52553911
I don't think they did, but they didn't buff it either. A big mistake, because 5e PCs are generally more powerful than 2e ones.

>>52553951
Eh, I'd rather they leave it alone rather than neuter it like they did with previous releases.

>>52553951
Just double the HPs of everything in the Tomb and you're good for 5E.

>>52553911
This artist is pretty decent but he should really put more effort into his artwork. It always looks like an unfinished painter's sketch. More details, better finish, please. Learn something from Elmore or Caldwell.

>>52553911
This is a reminder that the Tomb of Horrors was originally written for use at conventions where the death of a PC just meant the next player in line could have a turn. It was full of unfair instant death to keep the player turnover rate high and because nobody was going to use any of these PCs again. Any home campaigns that *don't* nerf the original Tomb of Horrors are doing it wrong.

I think for the most part it's alright, although >>52553951 is definitely right to say that 5e PCs are way better equipped to deal with the challenges it poses.

That said, the Demilich stat sheet for 5e is utterly pathetic, so the final boss is completely underwhelming. It wouldn't survive a single turn against most of the high level groups I've DM'd for, even on low resources.

>>52554151
Wrong. Gygax created the Tomb of Horrors to pit against his sneak bastard players who kept wrecking his home dungeon with their cheesy tricks (like walking on the ceiling to avoid traps). He _used_ the Tomb of Horrors at conventions because it was so lethal, but conventions were not its purpose.

>>52554153
Well then buff him. You think Acerak should be better then give him some different legendary or lair actions. Give him spellcaster levels on top of life drain. Its pretty easy to buff or nerf monsters.

>>52554247
>invents a game where the player characters can have the power to walk on ceilings
>gets mad when they do

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>>52554153
>demilich is pathetic
>CHARISMA save or die

Martials BTFO.

>>52554296
Ah yes, the old "if you think 5e is unbalanced change it!" defense. It's not like the system sells itself as being well balanced and playable out of the box with no modifications. It's my favorite right after "WHY DID YOU CHANGE SOMETHING IN 5E?!?! NOW IT'S UNBALANCED!!!".

It's seriously incredible the lengths 5ggots are willing to go to say that their precious devs can do no wrong. Get over yourself.

>>52554396
>>52554247
Didn't Robilar beat it by abusing minions to just throw them at the traps, figure out how they worked, then bypass them?

>>52555290
>It's "4rrie is butthurt" episode again

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>>52553911
They made it into a dungeon that's actually intended to be conquered by a party rather than by sacrificing a horde of faceless cohorts or sheep.
Original ToH was made to spite players and meatgrind their characters. Modern D&D has focus on actual character development and roleplay and values characters.
Do you get upset that they roll perception instead of poking every square inch with a 10 foot pole so you don't "Gotcha! You didn't check for tripwires! The door closes and you're trapped with a tarrasque, lava flooding the floor, poison gas, an arrow trap, and a guillotine!"

>>52555418
You've never read the ToH, have you?

>>52555474
I have.
>You enter the dungeon and fall into a pit and die
>Your new character circumvents the pit, enters an archway and has all of their defining traits completely undone and changed
>Then you try the wrong door and wind up trapped in an inescapable box until you die!
>Don't worry, your NEXT character dies instantly to the lich
>Final character defeats it all and gets the treasure at the end, and dies because it's cursed!

Not a bad way to spend a few Saturday afternoons if everyone knows what they're getting into and plays it tongue-in-cheek, but sticking a literal deathtrap like that into campaigns that actually follow a story with people who value their characters and characters that value their lives? Not compatible.

>>52555534
You do know resurrection magic is a thing in D&D, right? It's very useful for idiots that just blunder into each and every trap in a dungeon, such as yourself.

>>52555418
BD&D and 1E (and some 2E) in general are meatgrinds. Adventuring is supposed to be fucking dangerous. Because of all of these online series and the softening of the hobby as a whole, everyone who plays 5E has so little experience with death.
>Modern D&D has focus on actual character development and roleplay and values characters.
Also known as: the characters almost never die without resurrection, so more exposition (good and bad) is forced out of the players slowly over time and is paraded as "development". I ran a short 1E campaign with some 5E babies last year who were SHOCKED when they learned their actions actually have consequences. They always expect unlucky rolls to be handwaved away, poor decisions about attacking superior forced to be rolled back, or resurrection to be just around the corner. Nope, grab a new sheet asshole. Adventuring in the wilds is fucking dangerous. It was dangerous when people did it in real life, it's even moreso when there's monsters and magic running around.

>>52554100
>Just double the HPs of everything in the Tomb

There's seriously only like four monsters in the entire Tomb. Overcoming it is not about hit points.

>>52555570
Not that anon, but I hope you're not defending a shitty piece of bad dungeon design that is the original ToH?

Besides, good luck, there's a sphere of annihilation in the demon's moth.

>>52555290
>Ah yes, the old "if you think 5e is unbalanced change it!" defense

But if you think it's unbalanced, you should change it. That idea, however, is NOT the majority opinion of 5e as a whole.

I.e., if one person says "thing X in 5e is not to my liking", and someone responds "change it", that does not mean that the second person, or even the majority of people, personally find an issue with it, so much as he (or they) are just providing the easiest solution for the first person. It's not an indictment of 5e as a system.

No system is going to be perfect. Even 4e has flaws in its system, or execution. Like the fact that you can roll up a Vampire Heritage Vrykola Vampire 20 with the Vampire template.

That's just silly.

>>52556085
Not entirely. More calling out whiny little crybabies who haven't even looked at the thing and base their judgement on second hand memes. It's not half as bad as people think it is. It's not great by any means, but it's not terrible either. It's okay.

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>>52556110
>Vampire Heritage Vrykola Vampire 20 with the Vampire template
Okay, I laughed.

>>52556110
>Like the fact that you can roll up a Vampire Heritage Vrykola Vampire 20 with the Vampire template.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqIsc8ooXug

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>>52556085
Tomb of Horrors isn't You Have to Burn the Rope. The original Tomb of Horrors is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of dungeons. You don't complain when you die on the start screen or during the final credits of I Wanna Be The Guy. You implicitly wanted that kind of stuff to happen by even loading up the game in the first place. Similarly, by even doing the Tomb at all, you're implicitly saying to your DM, "I want a constant, inescapable threat of death around every corner, so that my bragging rights are that much more secure when I win."

Wasn't the original ToH a tournament module or something, so it was designed to be really hard?

>>52555366
My favorite story about it was the guys who took the crown of 50% chance of instant annihilation and crowned Acererak.

>>52556208
SEE >>52554247

>>52554396
Given that this is literally the dawn of tabletop RPGs we're talking about, it's more likely that Gygax created the spell without considering its broader consequences, seeing as no one had ever encountered the broader consequences before. Having created the spell and let his players use it for weeks or months or whatever, he couldn't just retroactively remove it even though it wasn't working as intended.

He ran into the same problem that every DM does - that he's just one guy whereas there are like four or five or something players. They will always be able to think up something that he didn't intend. But unlike other modern DM's, he didn't have decades of stuff to fall back on.

Thus, the solution: the Tomb.

>>52556237
Gotta admit, that's pretty poetic.

>>52556182
>>52556264
Yes to both of these.

If you want a deathgrinder adventure, you choose it. And then you should expect instant death every 10 inches in the dungeon, so you have to use every cheesy trick of your playing career, including any min-maxing or cheats you may have found, just to make it out alive.

That's the Robilar way.

PDF when?

>>52556310
Already.

>>52556317
Prove it, the 5eg trove is ded =[

>>52556300
You can't stop the Robilar.

>>52556300
It's basically an excuse to make max level character builds that you'd otherwise never use, toss on a couple magical items, and still die a couple times.

>>52556403
Again?
MEGA seems to hate Rick

>>52556310
>>52556403

Be faster next time, has been on the trove for well over a week.

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Yeah, you just have to look at the traps.

>original Tomb of Horrors
>collapsible ceiling does 5d10 damage no save
>very good chance of one or more characters dying
>pits do good damage and poison is save or die

>nu Tomb of Horrors
>collapsible ceiling does 5d10 DC15 dex for half damage
>even at max damage, failed save, no one can possibly die from that
>pits do ridiculous damage and so does poison

>>52554247
I thought he created just to dick over ran-dumb murder-hobo players who care more about slaughter and loot than about thinking their way through problems and roleplay.

>>52560119
So the collapsible ceiling was nerfed, but the pits were beefed.

So doesn't that result in things being roughly the same?

>>52560294
I meant ridiculous as in "ridiculously low" senpai. Pits are a minor inconvenience/HP tax at best while original would kill you most of the time.

>no PC options in this book

Just fucking kill me. When are they going to add more settings to the DM's Guild?

>>52560385
Even lower if you're playing a Barbarian with resistance to everything non-psionic.

>>52560385
That's because characters in 2e were a lot less durable than their counterparts after WotC got ahold of the license.

And people claim HP bloat is a myth.

>>52560119
What level do you start out at in nu Tomb of Horrors?

>>52555366
He was the guy with all the cows, right?

>>52561040
>And people claim HP bloat is a myth

No one has ever claimed that.

>>52555947
wow I bet you're fun to hangout with, actually wanting people to have a difficult time

>>52561932
Quiet, how else can he justify his persecution complex over 2e if people agree with his points?

>>52562002
>wanting dangerous adventures to be dangerous is bad! let's hold their hands all game

>>52555366

Poor Rolibar never got his due since he didn't have a spell named after him

>>52554396
Yep, he was sorta That Guy.
In fact, he was very much That Guy.

>>52555418
Looks like someone here needs to get good at dungeon crawling, or perhaps go back to Fate General.

>>52563102
And it sounds like someone else here needs to get good at playing actual heroes, or go back to OSRG.

>>52561932
Yes they do.

>>52563374
Pics or it didn't happen.

>>52553911
Why did Wizards make a Bill the Butcher lookalike their poster boy?

>>52560119
Save or die isn't that serious for that level range though, characters had really good odds of passing that save, and half the time the character falls in the pit they don't hit any spikes, so there's several chances to not even half to make the save. That said, if you got unlucky passing 3 saving throws was pretty nasty.

>>52562318
Because Robilar is a fucking fighter with insanely high mental stats and his player is a lateral thinking beast.

>>52565334
Because the marketing boys wanted the art dept to model rogues after him since they want to appeal millenials and not make much reference to old media like Frazetta Conan, Elric or Leiber's Lankhmar which only lures nostalgic grognards that are toxic to future commercial reboot projects like this one.

>>52565326
>>52561932
see
>>52545635
>>52545843
>>52546069
These posts were from a thread that archived yesterday too.

>>52568613
That's just Virt or his clone being a contrarian dick to troll people.

The vast, vast majority of roleplayers realize there is HP bloat going forward from D&D editions, starting in 3E.

>>52554129
Nigga u high

>>52554151
>>52554247
>not playing ape island banana shananingans

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Is it just me or does the bartender from TotYP look like an older Matthew Mercer?

>>52570769
Just you

>>52570769
Humans are all the same to me.
but yes, they are a little alike

>>52556136
>>52556161
You can go deeper. You can be a Triple Vampire Double Werewolf Zombie Ghost Dragon.

Revanent Vrykola, Vampire Heritage feat, Vampire|Druid (refluffed beast powers only to be a werewolf), Werewolf template, Avenging Haunt Paragon Path, and the Dragon King Epic Destiny (just need to take an Arcane power Multiclass feat). For extra edginess wield triple-bladed boomerangs (Chakcha) by taking the Background that gives a free martial weapon proficiency. Alternatively you can swap Dragon King Epic Destiny for Archlich and add lich instead.

>>52555947
God forbid your players expect to be able to make meaningful decisions rather than rolling their dice and hoping that they don't randomly die for no reason.

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>>52556110
>Implying being able to roll up a triple vampire is in any way a flaw
Also 4e didn't have templates
>>52571131
>Not also a robot
BACK TO FORMULA

>>52571386
To gain robot (Revanent: Warforged) you'd lose a layer of Vampire. It depends on your min-max goals, do you want MAXIMUM VAMPIRE or MOAR TYPES.

>>52571385
>they don't randomly die for no reason.

They entered the Tomb of Horrors. They acquiesced to the dungeon. That's the reason.

A DM should absolutely not spring the Tomb on unsuspecting players, but provided he's let them know what's coming, well, they agreed to it.

>>52571466
redundant layers are less impressive than varied types

>>52562481
People think Gygax had this halo of perfection but the guy was a morom, a dick, a prick and a fucker, he's the definition of That GM and That Guy. He forced you to take muderhobo ways of gaming but then punish you for doing it like

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>>52558456
>>52559901
>>52556403
>Prove it, the 5eg trove is ded =[

Yeah that's what happens when you pirate things.

>>52571659
>Tfw you own all the books but still pirate all the pdfs for ease of access
It's 2017. It was 2015 when they started. I'd have gladly paid 10-20% more if the book came with a code for a digital copy, and there's no good reason it couldn't have.

>>52571532
MAXIMUM TYPES BUILD GO!

Vampire/Werewolf/Elemental/Angel/Robot/Zombie at Level 1.

Race: Revenant: Warforged (Robot and Zombie)
Class: Vampire|Druid (Vampire and Werewolf)
Theme: Ironwrought (Elemental)
Feat: Deva Heritage (Angel)

Add Ghost at level 11

Paragon Path: Avenging Haunt

Add Dragon, Lich, Avangion, Starman, Demigod, or any number of weird immortals at 21.

Epic Destiny: Dragon King (because dragons fucking rock)

>>52571796

I own physical copies because I like collecting them and have the money to do so.

I sure as shit still download PDFs as much as possible for actual usage though, way more convenient.