MTG Modern General

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New fucking Gideon's have arrived

>>52552854
You almost got me.

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Playable or not?

Finally a good white card. It's been years.

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Alright boyos, here it is, the elusive and mysterious deck. Includes full sideboard plus alternates to adapt to almost any meta.

>>52552868
Very playable in my opinion, I think he's going to be a 4 of in control decks, he negates a big threat from the opponent, and literally has to be answered

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Maybe hatebears?

>>52553090
Scooze is just better

>Anyone else feel like the powerlevel for this set is really, really bad?
I honestly haven't really looked at the set yet, but that's the nature of the beast. It's better if they make cards that aren't powerful enough than to make cards that are too powerful, so they try to err on the side of caution. Sometimes they go too far and sometimes they miss something (or put something in to sell the set, you know what I mean), but that's the general idea.

>>52552868

This proves that OP is full of shit.

>>52553194
>1 Good planeswalker
>Still just a shitty Gideon Planeswalker
>Won't be good in Modern
No

>>52552868
Dies to Bolt and Decay

>>52553210
>shitty
Nigga you're stupid. This is whites Lotv. Shit is going to be super annoying.

>>52552868
How does this effect ad nauseam? Do they play a split of Gideon and Unlife? he gives a potential beatdown backup plan while playing a similar role to unlife. He's a bit easier to kill though.

>>52553261
Doesn't die to bolt if he comes down and pluses, have you ever played with Lotv or JtmS?

>>52553261
You have priority to plus it after cast. Bolt won't work unless the player is dumb enough not to plus it.

>>52553090
So it exiles everything else, but the cards that are relevant? Seems complete and utter shit.

>>52553324
prevents delve and shuts off delirium. Still dont think its modern playable when you have stuff like relic instead, the 2/2 isnt going to be worth the drawbacks

>>52553436

Only in early game.

GotT is good, but he isn't the white LotV like has been mentioned. A big factor of why cards like Lotv, JtmS, JVP, and Nahiri are so good as 4 ofs is they strip excess copies from your hand for value. GotT can never do that. He is objectively more powerful than a card like Nahiri, but to clunky to play in a control shell, and where else does he fit?

>>52553477
It doesn't give card advantage or kill anything. Only time I can see it being good is as a late game finisher. I guess it stalls pretty well, but in the end you have to already be controlling the board state to an extent to have him stick.

>>52553291
are you autismo?

>>52553555
Did I say anything incorrect?

>>52553555
His post was correct

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Accurate?

>>52553841
Extremely.

>>52553841
>>52552868
Kek, it says any gideon, that is retarded. It's annoying how they push planeswalkers so hard.

>>52554222
There are currently 89 planes walkers including this Gideon, could you imagine if instead we had 89 actual interesting magic cards that got these slots and development time?

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Don't you think this guy is strong?

>>52554448
>Update
No he's fucking trash

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Is she good enough for Modern?

>>52554497
Kinda. It's not that she's bad, it's that she has no good deck to go in

>>52554494
>Update
What did he mean by this?

Is U/B Eldrazi or B/R Eldrazi still viable in modern?

>>52554497
What a shitty ult.

>>52554607
Omniscience is shitty?

>>52554689
As a planeswalker ult yeah.

>>52554448
Might be worth something in zoo

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Does this have potential?

>>52554893
This is the modern thread

>>52554975
Mardu vehicles is modern playable though

>>52555119
What advantages does it have over any other aggro list?

>>52555119
No it doesn't. Mardu vehicles is only good because it is completely unanswered in standard.

>>52553477
>Where else does he fit
Seems very good against ad nauseum

>>52555330
I'm not seeing how he is good against ad nauseum

>>52555330
and in ad nauseam. Ad naus mirror matches are about to get even more retarded.

>>52555119
Top kek

>>52555449
he only helps vs lab maniac, still dies the same against lightning storm

>>52555685
>still dies the same against lightning storm
How?

>>52555685
But it doesn't.

>>52555732
>>52555798
You can't use planeswalker abilities at instant speed and you can't target something just because you know it's name

>>52555878
What are you talking about?

>>52555445
You can throw him down on turn 3 and ultimate immediately. Ad nauseum doesn't have a way to interact with it really. Unless they can remove your Gideon you can't lose, and they can't win. They only run one lightning storm so they can't use it to kill your Gideon and you. They would have to kill your Gideon with lightning storm and then play lab maniac + serum visions in the same turn. So ad nauseum + angel's grace + lightning storm + lab maniac + serum visions = 12 mana. That should slow them down long enough for you to bash in with Gideon enough times for the win.

>>52555924
>>52555945
I'm retarded. I didn't even notice his ult is a zero

>>52555878
What the actual fuck.

>>52556034
You didn't know this? Wow

How important are Hierarchs to Abzan Company? Is there another card that can work in that slot or are the turn 3 cocos too stronk? Looking to buy into it and shaving the hierarchs off means I don't have to wait until my next paycheck.

>>52556103
No I mean, what the actual fuck are you talking about? Nothing in Ad Nauseam can interact with a planeswalker on the board.

>>52556164
I mean, you could run Avacyn's Pilgrim if you really wanted a budget replacement. The other obvious choice is BoP.

>>52556164
Birds of Paradise. Weaker because it doesn't have exalted, but it's almost as good and a whole lot cheaper. Plus it's a flying blocker and can tap for black.

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>>52552868
This seems absolutely fucking nuts. Still not as good as some T3 Planeswalkers tho.

>>52556202
Seriously ikr. Fucking tron.

Wait, why do planeswalkers get priority over instants?

If you bolt a 3 counter planeswalker, it should die before it can activate a sorcery speed ability. Did they have to add a special planeswalker rule to make this not so?

>>52556232
Please don't talk about priority when you don't know how it works. The active player receives priority after something resolves or the phase changes. So when their planeswalker resolves, they can activate it before their opponent gets priority to cast that Lightning Bolt. And since loyalty counters are a cost to activating the ability, it ticks straight up.

They didn't change ANYTHING in the rules. You just don't know the rules.

>>52556232
>I don't understand priority

>>52556232
Ask yourself this:
After a planeswalker spell resolves, who gets Priority?
The active player, who is usually the player who cast the planeswalker.

>>52556270
So what, planeswalker abilities count as mana speed because they're snowflakes?

>>52556273
>>52556276
I haven't played magic since early mirrodin. Back in my day giant growth worked upon declaring defenders and the game was better for it!

>>52556314
>So what, planeswalker abilities count as mana speed because they're snowflakes?
Kill yourself my man.

>>52556347
Planeswalkers are bad and you should feel bad for what magic has become.

>>52556314
t. Someone who doesn't understand how priority works

Instant cards aren't "cast whenever" they're "cast when you have priority", and on your opponent's turn you only have priority when it is passed to you during a phase transition or while a spell is resolving. If the active player wanted to they could put ten spells and ten abilities on the stack before they pass you priority and you get the option to counter their first one because they can hold priority.

>>52556361
You're just stupid. It works the same way with a creature that has an activated ability. In order to do something at intNt speed you generally need to respond to something on the stack. When permanents enter the battlefield their entrance doesn't go on the stack. You also get priority before switching phases, resolving a planeswalker (or a creature) falls under neither of those scenarios.

>>52556164
>>52556198
You already want to be running at least 3 birds in abzan coco. Nothing replaces nobles. Not well, at least. You can throw in any dork but it won't do the same job that noble will.

>>52556457
Heirarch is good but the difference between it and a regular dork is vastly overstated. Why give your Goyf exalted when your mana dork can just have 1 power to swing with?

>>52556521
>Why give your Goyf exalted when your mana dork can just have 1 power to swing with?
Oh God. What am I reading

>>52556521
>Why give your Goyf exalted when your mana dork can just have 1 power to swing with?
Because then you can't use your dork for mana. Also you risk losing it.

I don't think heirarch is irreplaceable if you're on a budget, but it's really fucking good.

>>52556521
I assume it's because it's easier for creatures that aren't your mana dork to get damage through.

Oh also because you can't swing with the mana dork you just used to ramp, dingus.

>>52556554
What are you swinging with in the early turns?

>>52554772

Only with Bushwacker.

>>52556571
with the hierarch, dingus

>>52556571
If you don't need the mana and don't have better options, T2 swing with Heirarch does just as much damage as a T2 swing with Avacyn's Pilgrim or Llanowar Elves. It also doesn't die to a 1/1 chump.

>>52556602
>HEIRARCH IS GOOD BECAUSE IT CAN PUMP WHILE PROVIDING MANA
>But you're rarely swinging with things while you still need the mana anyway
>IT'S THE HEIRARCH THAT'S SWINGING BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED THE MANA DUH
/tg/, everyone.

>>52556615
What are they chumping with? The only dorks people play are 0/1s :^)

>>52552868
So he dies to removal? Doesn't sound all that op,but still very nice indeed.

>>52556632
>>But you're rarely swinging with things while you still need the mana anyway
Literally nobody said this. It's a valid argument but it wasn't brought up.

>What are they chumping with? The only dorks people play are 0/1s
Man I don't even know what you're talking about. It seems like your implying token decks don't exist but I'm not sure.

Since we're back to talking about Modern, is Skred a boring deck to play? I just need something in a student's budget.

>>52556673
Personally, I like it. It's what I started with and it's pretty easy to upgrade it over time until you're looking at a 2 or 3 color burn deck.

>>52556669
Tokens don't play dudes on turn 1. I'm being baited so hard right now.

>>52556695
>Tokens don't play dudes on turn 1.
That's why we're talking about turn 2. Going second is a thing, yeah?

>>52556632
Hierarch is strictly better because not only does it tap for 3 colors instead of 1, it pumps your creatures. All for 1 mana.

It even pumps them when you tap it for mana. No other card can do all of that. It is simply too efficient. There have been countless games where that 1 extra damage has led me to a win.

>>52556734
I was never arguing that Heirarch wasn't better. Only that the difference between it and other dorks is vastly overstated. My god you autistic fucks are so black and white.

>>52556754
It''s really not overstated, though. It is a massive difference.

>>52556632
Don't even act condescending after outing yourself as a retard who can't tell the difference between hierarch and any other dork. Actually neck yourself

>>52556754
>Only that the difference between it and other dorks is vastly overstated
Yeah. Except it's not. Unless you're talking about it being overstated by people saying that there's literally no reason to use another dork, which was never a claim pushed here.

The difference between heirarch and another dork literally wins games. That's not an overstatement.

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Ok /tg/, post em'

>>52556767
>>52556772
>>52556782
You people must've screamed audibly when that Swans deck won a large event. A sub-optimal deck outperforming decks with TOP TIER cards in them? He must've been cheating!

>>52556848
He was.

>>52556792
that one suits storm more imo

>>52556848
Sub-optimal is fine. Strictly worse is only justifiable if you're on a budget. Money's the only reason to use other dorks (besides birds which you should be running anyways) over heirarchs because the ONLY thing avacyn's pilgrim does better is let you swing with multiple at once, which shouldn't be happening very often at all.

I think you have autism m8. It's time to stop posting.

>>52556848
>I have nothing to refute their argument. Better make a witty comparison to another deck that managed to win!

It's clear you don't understand how good noble is. You can just admit it.

>>52556934
>Strictly worse is only justifiable if you're on a budget
It's fine if you just don't give a fuck.

>>52556963
>It's fine if you just don't give a fuck.
If we're assuming you've got infinite money, don't care, and STILL don't want to buy strictly better cards, why are you even playing?

>>52556963
If you didn't take the game seriously, you could have said so long ago.

Just fuck off to your churchball league already, the grown ups are trying to discuss competitive magic

>>52556963
Technically speaking Hierarch is "not strictly" worse than birds of paradise.

>>52557009
>
>>52556934
>>>(besides birds which you should be running anyways)
I give up.

>>52557009
Think of it this way: if you had a choice between 8 nobles, 4 nobles and 4 birds, and 8 birds, everyone would pick 8 nobles.

Because the exalted trigger is that good.

>>52557043
Noble Hierarch is better. I get that. Just pointing out that "strictly better" means something else.

>>52556848
This post is unrelated to why you were called out on being a shitter. You're assblasted as fuck

>>52556963
>lol I actually don't even care :^)
Epic

>>52557142
;^)

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>>52554448
Yeah he could be good...
Looking forward to seeing that mono red combo deck with Kiki Jiki.

>>52552868
This is a new modern staple. Screencap this

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>>52557552
Doubtful. Folds to trash cards like this.

>>52557552
>screencap this
why do people say this?
Can you not screen cap it yourself?

>>52557619
You know they changed the legend rule

>>52557672
It's like saying 'mark my words' but for the internet.

Sure, you could just remember you said it, but you need to let everyone else remember it too. How else are you going to get recognition for being right?

>>52554448
I can see it with Kiki, as well as Saheeli in standard.

>>52557737
Anon, why would anyone use a 4-drop and legendary rules to kill a planeswalker when good decks are all mainboarding Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse?

It's about giving yourself the emblem too, then seeing which Gideon dies first.

>>52557745
>get recognition for being right?
>on an anonymous image board

Okay reddit, it's time to go home.

>>52557809
>when good decks are all mainboarding Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse?
Typical GBx players, implying theirs is the only good deck.

>>52557843
Hey man, not my fault Wizards will never stop feeding us good cards.

>>52557619
This is not 2013 anon

>>52557414
Does this actually work with Kiki?

>>52557809
>legend rule changed in 2013
>people STILL aren't used to it

jfc

>>52557794
Kiki is a good combo. Saheeli on the other hand will see herself dead in a couple of iterations. Hardly revolutionary. Especially compared to Copy Cat.

>>52557829
That's why I said it the way I did. Because it's fucking stupid.

>>52557895

Swing with everyone except Kiki, Exerting Combat Celebrant. Untap everyone. Tap Kiki, making a copy of Combat Celebrant. Attack again, Exerting the copy this time. Untap everyone. Tap Kiki, making a copy of Combat Celebrant. Rinse and Repeat. At least thats what I think is going on anyway.

>>52557619
What do you think this is, 2013?

>>52557809
do you think it's 2013 still?

>>52554448
>turn 1 Goblin guide: hit 2
Turn 2 Soul bind haste dude: hit 4
Turn 3 this dude, soul bind him. Hit 16. Profit?

>>52557895
Play celebrant with Kiki on board, tap Kiki for a hasty copy of the original, exert the copy and untap Kiki, tap Kiki for a hasty copy of the original, exert the new copy and the first copy if it's still alive, rinse, repeat. Assuming your opponent doesn't fuck up the original celebrant with removal, you can go infinite, swinging for 4 at minimum with each copy on each combat.

>>52557918
Also Ballista exists in standard. Guess copycat's not being creeped for this guy.

>>52558016
If you soulbond Lightning Mauler to Guide, he can't bond again until guide dies.

>>52557895
Yes. Infinite combat phases. as long as they don't have a 5 toughness (or indestructible) blocker, or removal, you should be able to insta-win.

>>52558094
>5 toughness
It will still die after 2 blocks

It has to be indestructible or "prevent all combat damage that would be dealt to"

>>52558082
We'll mauler might still be an option? It's kinda weak but that's still a fast potential clock I guess

>>52558094
Toughness doesn't matter, only indestructibility.

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>>52556792
Hello my fellow artifact enthusiast

>>52558140
Oh damn you're right, I didn't think about the stacking damage.

So is Kiki-Combat generally better than other existing combos or is it going to just be a disappointment?

>>52558305
It's trash. You can win with exarch/pestermite/krasis etc. Easier

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So I'm building Mono-green stompy for my first modern deck since it's nice and cheap

Basically done building it, there's just one decision I'm not sure on.

Guttural Response or Choke for the sideboard?

Also should I cut a Dryad Militant or a Strangleroot Geist for a 1-of Thrun the Last Troll? I feel like it might be a neat trick.

>>52558305
The only benefit I can see so far is that it's actually the same color as Kiki, so you might be able to make a deck where you can hard-cast Kiki pretty easily.

>>52552697
Hi, do you guys have any tips for new players? What types of mana to go with? for cards i have a Tezzuret plains-walker deck, ajani planes-walker deck, and a kaldesh deckmaker kit, i got the one paradox engine card from one of them, i hear that cards meta.

>>52558352
Personally, I wouldn't cut one or two drops for four drops

Choke is better

>>52558305
My guess is that it'll see play in EDH as a combo piece and maybe in standard if copycat is somehow surpassed by it or banned.

>>52558380
(You)

>>52558401
>Kiki-Jiki
>standard
K

>>52554448

I've brewed up a naya humans aggro deck that this guy could be decent in

Wouldn't call him a good card per se, but if your deck has enough synergies you might be able to reach his potential

He's a low floor-high ceiling card, which typically don't work well in modern

>>52558408
can i at least get some tips? please?

im a newfag to this general so sorry if i fag up the board a bit too much

>>52558432
You were told this was the wrong thread last time along with help

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>>52556792
I was too lazy to change the "watched" part

>>52558447
ok, i'll leave then

sorry

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4x Astral Cornucopia
4x Pentad Prism
2x Everflowing Chalice
4x Coretapper
4x Surge Node
2x Power Conduit
4x Energy Chamber
2x Tezzeret's Gambit
4x Dramatic Reversal
4x Culling Daise
4x Voltaic Key
22x Island?

What's my wincon?

>>52558447
can you point me in the direction of the proper thread then? please?

>>52558518
Your local LGS can help you a lot better than 4chan.

>>52558542
you guys are not that positive are you?
Well, il go talk to them then
thanks anon.

>>52558487
coretapper beats

>>52558585
You're asking questions about getting started in the game and getting a handle on it.
Most of the discussion for magic on this board is a bit more complex than that. Like, speculation for what impact new cards will have, discussion of the meta, complicated interactions, or just bragging.

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Bird Brain and Expertises died for this

>>52558585
>you guys are not that positive are you?
Not even this. Just get tired of guys with shitty intro packs needing things spoonfed to them when you probably wouldn't seek out and buy the singles we recommend anyway

>>52558711
Can I cast creatures? And so thisd gives you access on your opponents turn too right?

>>52558751
looks like it. everything castable and works on opponents turn

>>52558760
I'm sure someone will think of some way to use it, seems kind of clunky to me

>>52558711
>now ancestral vision is a CMC3 draw spell

>>52558695
oh, sorry

>>52558727
im willing to improve, theres probably a sticky in the Op i didnt see.

Sorry for bugging you guys, i'll go back to lurking and asking the odd question.

>>52558802
You can't cast AV with this. Since you have to be able to cast it in the first place. Also split Cards work with their CMC for each individual half

>>52558711

>people playing real formats have to suffer because of standard babies and draft chaff

Didn't see that coming

>>52558967
>You can't cast AV with this
yes, you can

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>>52558711
Shame that the Haze is 3CMC and not 2, for the curve

>>52559165
sure about that? because the wording reads like the spell has to be castable

>>52559230
The ability lets you ignore the mana cost and pay 0.

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Land (18)
3x Arid Mesa
3x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Swamp
Instant (13)
2x Kolaghan's Command
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Manamorphose
2x Path to Exile
2x Terminate
Creature (11)
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Death's Shadow
3x Street Wraith
Sorcery (18)
4x Collective Brutality
4x Faithless Looting
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize

How would you guys say it's coming along? Any suggestions? I actually tested out fiery temper, and it doesn't seem like the absolute worst

Is 8 whack the best way to play goblins in modern?

>>52559253
Add tarmogoyf and Traverse the Ulvenwald

>>52559249
yeah but the ability of that enchantment triggers once you've played that spell immediately before pay the mana. it's not like the cascade effect "cast it without pay his mana cost". the enchantment says "you may pay 0 blah blah...for a spell you cast..." and you can cast AV from your hand.
good job with the blue color, MaRo

>>52559388
*can't cast AV

>>52559388
>(((Rosewater)))

>>52559249
still waiting for gatherer/rules for this. because if this works they might actually have created a playable blue modern control card for once

>>52559355
ebin

>>52559355
Also making it a little more midrangey, what do you think?

Land (18)
3x Arid Mesa
3x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Swamp
Instant (14)
2x Kolaghan's Command
3x Lightning Bolt
3x Manamorphose
3x Path to Exile
3x Terminate
Creature (12)
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Death's Shadow
1x Ranger of Eos
3x Street Wraith
Sorcery (16)
2x Collective Brutality
4x Faithless Looting
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize

>>52559461
Pretty sure it doesn't work. It says "rather than pay the mana cost," which means it must have a mana cost in the first place. AV doesn't.

>>52559388
Wait you're right, it's only when you cast it that it's free. Wow this is awful. Or is it. You can cast spells with a lower CMC, so eventually this thing just makes a fuck ton of pseudo mana every turn. With draw spells this is mega gas.

>>52559522
>>52559542
and then there's >>52559349
I have no fucking clue because if it's a replacement effect that has to be the worst wording ever

>>52559388
>>52559461
>>52559522
>>52559542
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=393818
>This has no mana cost, which means it can’t normally be cast as a spell. You could, however, cast it via some alternate means, like with Fist of Suns or Mind’s Desire.

>>52559522
ancestral visions CMC is 0...

>>52559565
yeah but those two are replacement effects. this reads like a on-cast trigger

>>52559487
Looks fine. Just can't see why you'd ever play it over DSJ

>>52559603
Do you know what a triggered ability is? A triggered ability contains one of the following words: when, whenever, at.

>>52559604
Because I think Bedlam Reveler is straight gas and literally the best topdeck in the format.

>>52559630
But then it actually seems modern playable. Can't have that with Wizards of the Creaturetappening. There HAS to be a catch somewhere

>>52559603
Pretty sure all 3 are continuous effects. And AF is definitely not a trigger because it doesn't say when/whenever/at. Still, this is worded oddly. I may be wrong, but:

The reason Visions et al. can't be cast is that when you get to the mana cost step of casting a spell, you can't pay anything, and have to stop casting the spell. This seems like it's creating an alternate cost, which would let you cast Visions. Or maybe it's not. Either way, I'm waiting till the CR update and hoping Tabak doesn't create another fiat ruling like Caged Sun.

>>52559748
I don't understand what people find confusing about the wording. I think people are just trying to add extra meaning where there is no extra meaning.

>>52559748
>>52559863
I'm also concerned because Tabak actually answered a question regarding this and split cards in the Reddit Thread but ignored all the questions about AV even though those are 75% of the Thread

>>52559683
I'd say Temur Battle Rage is the best topdeck in DS decks.
Opponent has a shit load of blockers? You'll be dead next turn and Shadow can't deal lethal? Well, make that bitch hit for 22 with trample

>>52559919
Yeah but that just eats a path to exile. No bullshit the best interaction in this deck is bedlam reveler, into faithless looting, it is such a fucking insane interation, you're pretty much guaranteeing 3 good cards, fuck it's so great every time I hit that I nut. But like I said, your shadow can just eat a path or a kill spell, I think drawing 3 is really really good.

>>52559973
>Yeah but that just eats a path to exile
The fact that it is the top deck says otherwise

>>52558487
>No otherworld atlas and paradox engine

y

>>52560166
>Opponent draws a path, decay, terminate, push
>Passes to you
>You draw battlerage
>Play it
>They kill your guy
>You draw Reveler
>They kill your guy but you now have 3 cards in hand
This is my point

>>52558711
This in storm?

>>52560356
3 shit cards. Other than death's shadow, your card power level is low. Mardu a shit

>>52560402
Mardu has the best removal colors in the game, seriously what 3 cards wouldn't you want to hit in this deck? It's all kill spells and good creatures, there's even less discard. There's literally not a single bad card in the deck, even faithless looting while card disadvantage technically isn't that bad. Seriously, what card in the deck is just bad or doesn't replace itself?

>>52553278

I will tell you now it's not that good in AN. If I wanted to play a backup plan in AN I can convert the mana base slightly and play Glittering Wish and slam down a Sigarda(INN) or a Dragonlord Dromoka. You also have good existing backup plans already of playing Teferi or Grave Titan in most AN decks.

>>52560449
>Mardu has the best removal colors in the game
Tell me more about how having removal wins games. I know people who play Mardu lists. There's a reason it doesn't post any results

>>52560513
Because they don't have large efficient beaters like death's shadow and bedlam reveler?

>>52560524
How can you advocate for removal being incredible when you barely have any threats? That same removal is going to blow you the fuck out

>>52560555
I'm also running 7 sources of targeted discard and 1 of my main threats dodges decay and push which are 2 of the more popular removal spells right now.

>>52558487
Nigga where's your golem foundry

>>52559748
It's pretty obvious you can't use this with AV, it says when you cast a card you may pay 0 rather than its mana cost, you can't cast AV from your hand unless they are changing the rules for that too

>>52560818
>117.6. Some mana costs contain no mana symbols. This represents an unpayable cost. An ability can also have an unpayable cost if its cost is based on the mana cost of an object with no mana cost. Attempting to cast a spell or activate an ability that has an unpayable cost is a legal action. However, attempting to pay an unpayable cost is an illegal action.
Unless they change the rules, Ancestral Vision can be cast using As Foretold.

>>52560818
Judge already confirmed you can

>>52559542
You're fucking dumb. You pay BEFORE you cast a spell, not after. This lets you pay 0 in order to cast a spell.

>>52560898
suspend cards have no mana cost so the effect didn't find the mana cost to subsistute

>>52560969
You're actually retarded. Read the rules before opening your retarded mouth again:

>202.3a The converted mana cost of an object with no mana cost is 0, unless that object is the back face of a double-faced permanent or is a melded permanent.

http://mtg.gamepedia.com/Mana_cost

Could As Foretold be the key to control becoming a real archetype in modern?

>>52560969
see
>>52559565
This kind of interaction already exists. The only thing that could change it is Wizards changing the rules.

I'm really enjoying all these desperate arguments to shit the card.

>>52560861
>attempting to cast
>when you cast

You don't actually cast AV when you "attempt", so you don't get the replacement effect of paying 0 instead.

>>52561036
This is bait right? You can't actually be this fucking dumb, right?

>>52561021
No. The card isn't even very good. It find down turn 3,then takes several turns to make an impact

>>52561053
It lets you cast AV and other costless spells for 0 right off the bat.

>>52561000
you are fucking retarded
"Zero mana and non-existing cost

Zero mana is a mana cost which can be paid without spending resources. The symbol {0} is used to denote zero mana cost.

It is not to be confused with a non-existing mana cost, which cannot be paid. Non-land cards with a non-existing mana cost cannot be played unless they have an alternative cost that can be paid. "

>>52561036
Where are you getting the "when you cast" phrase from?

>>52561080
>other costless spells
Those aren't good

>>52561102
>what is clearing the board and reanimating a bunch of shit
>what is Balance

>>52561102
Living End?

>>52561094
As foretold reads:
>Once each turn, you may pay 0 rather than pay the mana cost for a spell you cast

This is notably different wording from cards such as brain and aether vial, which specifically state they let you cast the card, this one doesn't say you may cast the card, only that when you do it costs 0.

>>52561083
If you knew /why/ that was true, you would realize you're wrong. See >>52559748 >>52560861

>>52561139
Are you familiar with the interaction between Ancestral Vision and Fist of Suns?

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>>52561139
>>52559565
And conveniently bypassing the relevant card that's already mentioned.

>>52561135
>>52561138
You're going to put this in living end? Lmao
You're going to just play living end as a board wipe? Lmao
>what is balance
Not modern legal and restore balance is kinda shit

Unban Dark Depths
Unban Green Suns Zenith
Unban Punishing Fire
Unban Umezawa's Jitte
This unironically makes Modern better

>>52561182
Restore Balance is literally the same effect as Balance
It just has Suspend 6

>>52561201
Turbo depths would be op

>>52561182
>what is reading comprehension

Restore Balance is a lot better when it's free. Not saying it's gonna be great, but I'd brew it.

>>52561223
I read it just fine dick head. It's still not good. Cascading is pretty much the same thing

>Yes, you can use As Foretold to cast a card with an unpayable mana cost (like AV). Rule 117.6a, for those of you scoring at home.
https://twitter.com/TabakRules/status/849759413581750272

>>52561281
BLOWN THE FUCK OUT
BLOWN THE FUCKING OUTTTTT
This is one of the best spoiler day of mtg.

>>52561321
This will not make blue good
Tap out turn 3 to play a do nothing enchantment and your opponent untaps and kills you with Tarmogoyf or a bunch of burn spells or a Karn that exiles it immediately

>>52561321
Calm down you autismo. It's not that good

>>52561358
You can play the card that turn

>>52561321
>retard blue player taps out on their turn to play a bad enchantment that doesnt do anything until next turn
>in response Boros Charm
>untap Boros Charm, Bolt GG?

>>52561358
>>52561365
GOALPOST MOVED
I-i-it's not THAT good anons.

>>52561377
Wow draw three cards only if you have ancestral visions in hand already and then lose next turn to a Karn anyways

>>52561387
I wasnt the guy who disagreed on the rules. I knew this could cast AV or any Time Spiral no cast card. It doesnt mean its good.

>>52561387
I'm not an idiot. I realize it casts these spells. You are bad at evaluating cards

I really just hope Balance Control doesnt become a thing. Cards so good its banned in Legacy and Commander and Restricted in Vintage. If you can play four Balance in a Modern deck because As Foretold cheats the Suspend cost, then this format will become utter garbage. Getting Armageddoned, Wrathed and Mind Twisted all for one card is not fun to play against.

>>52561536
>I really just hope Balance Control doesnt become a thing
I'll try my best to make it a thing just for babies like you

>>52561536
Balance doesn't even matter for the caster since he can play just fine with just as foretold.

>People who don't even understand the rules trying to say if a card is good or not

The only thing is general is good for is laughs, honestly.

>>52561715
You're so smart

>>52561639
Not a baby. Just realize how powerful some cards are, especially in a format with no answers. Example, Show and Tell is a fine card in Legacy, balanced and has ways to play around it, but getting Turn 2 Griselbranded or Emrakul'd in Modern would be unfun and oppressive. Same thing in Standard right now Gideon AoZ is hugely oppressive it limits deckbuilding options because you have to have some way of beating it and the amswers just arent there. Point is cards are fine if they have answers. There is no way to answer a Balance not even properly in Legacy and thats why its banned everywhere.

>>52559487
>>52559253
Can someone make a suggestion on my deck please?

>>52561802
>There is no way to answer a Balance
Discard, counters, destroying the enchantment letting them play it or just keep playing, it's not that hard to come back from a restore balance unless the opponent has an aggressive clock.

>>52561906
Someone did and you just sperged. You don't want advice you want pats on the back

>>52561925
I didn't sperg, they said my deck is bad because it's in mardu colors, I said mardu needs a good beater, and they said it'd just get killed and I said it wasn't that bad cause I have 7 targeted discard spells and Reveler dodges push and decay and bolt. Do you not see a difference between sperging and making counterpoints? Great projecting though.

>>52562051

No, you weren't sperging then in my opinion because you were simply defending your color choice but now you look like you're sperging about how you weren't sperging.

>>52562166
Okay well I'll stop sperding. But I would like recommendations

>>52562183
play a better color combination

>>52558168
>tfw the only reason I don't play the deck is because I don't want everyone to hate me.
I love it so much. I'm so sorry, but I'd feel even sorrier if I played it.

>>52559184
It has always been a shame that haze isn't 2 cmc. Always.

>>52562216
The deck actually seems pretty good. I haven't lost a single match to my brothers Eldrazi Tron deck. 3/4 that draws 3 is real good imo

How is there this much confusion about As Foretold? Do people not realize Living End is a deck?

>>52562487
Because the majority of people shitposting in this general are kitchen table warriors. We'll see just how good or bad the card is soon, but at the moment it's undeniable that there's a lot of interesting possibilities it opens up.

>>52562581
Imagine if aether vial was 3 CMC. This isn't vial but the same principle applies

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>>52556792

>>52558805
It's all good anon, don't worry about some mistakes on your way to enjoying the game more. Once you have more of a handle on the format, these threads are really informative/entertaining

>>52562782
>really informative/entertaining
Nobody seems to know the rules and nonstop shitty forced kithkin memes. Why am I even here?

Does eternal command want the new enchantment?
Extra copies of shitty aether vial but later it can cast cryptic and other value spells for nothing

>>52562869
Yeah for 1 turn

>>52562878
Huh? It can cast X or less

>>52562942
Oh that's actually interesting, fuck that's some serious value with ancestral visions

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>>52556792

>2027
>playing at my local FNM
>all supplemental formats have been ousted entirely by wotc, as they felt it tooks players away from standard
>bring my janky Mono Jace deck just to break up some of the monotony (colors were renamed after the main cast of the Gatewatch movie after ot was released to better facilitate brand cohesion)
>standard is the best it has been since 2022, the top three decks only make up 82% of the meta
>first match against Ajani Beatsticks
>through the various tap down effects that are all Jace gets nowadays I have managed to live to turn 6
>opponent casts their Deck Avatar, Ajani, Catman Fighter of the Multiverse, from hs Deck Avatar Zone
>oh man this is what I have been waiting for
>tap out and cast Jace's Snooty Dismissal
>2JJJJ: Counter target spell. If the spell is countered this way, exile it with 1 time counter instead of placing it in the graveyard
>I hear a low rumbling before the table suddenly goes flying over my head and crashing into the wall behind me
>"FUCKING FAGGOT NO FUN ALLOWED CONTROL BABY. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME IF ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS RUIN EVERYONE ELSE'S FUN?!"
>entire store is looking at us
>store judge comes over and apologizes to the Ajani player, hands him one of the exclusive full art Grizzly Bear promos as an apology
>I am thrown out and my DCI number is given a lifetime ban for obstructing someone else's fun

Such is life in MTG

>>52563029
Oh my god fuck off. You blue players are the whiniest fucking faggots ever. You are akin to tribal players bitching that Minotaurs arent viable. Blue control isnt good fucking accept it fag.

>>52563029
This copypasta is better than the recent mtg lore.

I have no problem with people playing bad decks, playing what you want is fine, but conversely you dont get to bitch that your bad deck is bad and doesnt win more often. You have two choices one is to play a better deck if winning is the biggest object to you, two is to accept your deck is bad and jam it anyways because you want to play how you want to play.

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>playing against my brothers Bant Eldrazi
>he has an Eldrazi displacer a thought knot and a smasher on board all I have is A 4/4 Deaths shadow
>topdeck reveler
>draw bolt path land
>pass turn with 2 mana up
>he top decks smasher
>alpha strike minus displacer
>bolt displacer, path smasher discarding land, block the thought knot with shadow and the other smasher with reveler
>Reveler brings me the rest of the way to a win
Please never ban Deaths Shadow Wizards I can already tell I'm going to play this deck forever

>>52563452
>inb4 my brother is retarded
I just built the deck and he wasn't 100% on how to play against it

>>52562594
It's not vial though, nor does it serve the same purpose, so the comparison is superficial at best.

Vial is an enabler for aggro thanks to it's low cost and inability to effect anything but creatures. As Foretold is slower obviously, but it also works for any cards with a cost below it's current counters, and it counts as casting that card which allows for certain abilities to go off that Vial does not.

>>52563142
Found the Ajani player!

>>52556164
I used piligrams in pod, a similar deck, and it was fine. Nobles are a lot better though.

>>52563452
Mardu Death's Shadow?

I'm intrigued

>>52561212
It would be sweet, but op indeed.

>>52563648
I posted the list above in the thread, this is what I'm working with right now

Land (18)
4x Arid Mesa
3x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Swamp
Instant (14)
2x Kolaghan's Command
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Manamorphose
2x Path to Exile
3x Terminate
Creature (12)
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Death's Shadow
4x Street Wraith
Sorcery (16)
2x Collective Brutality
4x Faithless Looting
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize

When you're in topdeck mode against someone with this deck, and you get there real fast I should add, hitting a reveler is almost unbeatable.

>>52563612
Im actually playing Mono Gideons faggot

>>52563693
Why the manamorphose? Surely that can just be something like Boros Charm? Give Shadow and Reveler indestructible, give them double strike for an easy kill or just 4 damage is way better then Morphose.

>>52563713
I tried a few things in that slot. Boros charm, orzhov charm, I cut down to 3, I cut down to 1. really the difference is that it allows you to consistently slam revelers earlier rather than later. Lets say turn 1 you loot, discarding a souls and a land. Then turn 2, you play a land, morphose, and then bolt or thoughtseize or inquisition or whatever you like. then turn 3, you have the ability to play a 1 mana spell, and a reveler, or a death's shadow and something else, really depends on the hand, maybe you want to bin your kcommand or bin a couple lands, you play reveler. It's the difference between casting 3 spells on turn 2, and then maybe casting 1 on turn 2 and then 2 on turn 3. It really costs us nothing to have in the deck, it cycles, triggers prowess, and gets our reveler out faster who almost always just catches 3 cards. and on top of that I'm only running 18 lands, and it felt clunky going up more 2 costed spells, I really wanted to keep it lower to the ground. I will playtest more with it, but for the time being I really do like the card, also it mana fixes in a pinch, but in the end, a morphose in the hand usually equals a quick reveler

>>52558425
I never said Kiki was standard, you twat.

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>>52563713
Like this scenario here. I looted turn 1, discarded loot and land. Turn 2 I morphosed then thoughtseized, bolt. Then turn 3 I thoughtseized and played a reveler and now my hand is straight gas, not to mention I can flashback looting and filter that draw. The deck is really streamlined, and goes through the deck really fast, it is rare you don't hit a reveler "On Curve." Think of it like a Mishra's Bauble in Death's Shadow Jund, not really a great card all around, but in Death's Shadow it grows goyf, cycles, and turns on delirium. For us morphose is doing a similar job.

>>52563693
Splash blue for delver

>>52564026
>already tricolor
>"hey anonymous, you should total put the absolute worst fucking color in modern into your deck!! There's this great card called delver..."

/tg/, bad at Magic since 400 BC

>>52564026
No room to cut anything for delver really, can't go down on any instants or sorceries, and Street Wraith works too well with Death's Shadow. I don't think I'd go Grixis though, Souls, Path and White sideboard cards are just too useful.

>>52564057
What is death's shadow? Fuck off cunt

>>52563693
Any reason to run only 3 bolts? Also I understand you are going for cycle effects, but isn't this quite low on threats, assuming you are going for DS/reveler beatdown. Also thoughtseize into DS, discard removal from opponent.

>>52564084
What is Mardu?
Can you even read, faggot?

>>52563923
Have you played against real DSJ yet? How's the matchup?

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>>52564084

>>52564105
Oh, I got blind for a moment, for some reason I didn't see 4x thoughtseize at all.

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>>52564112
Digging your style lad.

>>52564105
>Also thoughtseize into DS, discard removal from opponent.
Not sure what you mean by this.

I only run 3 bolts, cause bolt isn't that great right now. It's not the worst, but it's just not that great against Eldrazi and DSJ. I really only want to see 1 bolt in a lot of games, so I don't like 4.

The deck may seem threat light, but we are burning through the deck very quickly, and souls should not be underestimated. The deck does a very good impersination of a control deck, and 4 souls tokens can go the distance pretty easily honestly. I haven't had a problem with durdling really and not hitting threats. If you flood, you flood, yes. But I really haven't had a problem running 8 kill cards. It's kind of like bogles, except we don't need to mull if we don't hit a bogle, we just play our midrange game and eventually hit our threats cause 12 of our cards that aren't Reveler draw cards.

>>52564111
I just had a friend proxy up DSJ and we are testing it now. Before board the matchup seems to line up pretty much dead even. Lingering souls is very good against DSJ. I really think it's very 50/50, really just coming down to who's answers line up better. I will say though that reveler not dying to push is really fantastic, and when topdecking he's insane. I'm going to play it some more, but I really do feel at this time that the matchup is pretty even.

>>52558711

It's honestly only a good thing that they made the rules governing split cards simpler. Those rules were a garbage fire.

Some weirdo kitchen table tier decks were lost but who gives a shit.

>>52564269
Also I will add lili is hard to beat, considering a dreadbore

>>52564364
How about celestial purge instead in white?

>>52564470
That's a great sideboard card and something I'll probably definitely be running. White has the best sideboard cards desu.

>>52564499
Oh you were talking about mainboarding dreadbore, I don't know why but my brain ain't functioning today.

>>52564536
Maybe just 1, I don't know I feel dreadbore is a very useful card and it's as good as terminate most of the time.

>>52562758
Accurate desu

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>>52558352
I prefer guttural because it's one mana and stompy is able to operate at 100% with only 3 mana out, so mana costs can be important. With choke you could potentially keep their whole mana pool tapped, of course not that many people play blue because it's shit but that goes for both cards. In general, I wouldn't worry about it too much unless blue is very relevant in your meta.

Thrun is great as a surprise, again mana cost is a problem because he's 4 mana but I feel he's worth it against control decks since they will likely find a way to drag the game out from our optimal 4-6 round kills. I would sub a leatherback or a dryad militant for thrun. Don't ever run less than 4 strangleroot geists, quite possibly your best creature, haste undying 2/1 for 2 mana is pretty retarded.

>>52554448
I really fucking hate the trend of
>make an amazing red card with neat ability
>jk you'll never get to see it shine because we gave it 1 toughness and no haste

Alternatively
>totally shit red card
>oh, but look it has hasssstttteeeeee

>>52556439
That is not true at all. When an ability is triggered it absolutely does go on the stack and can be responded to.

>>52553281
>>52553291
you bolt in response to the plus...

>>52565381
That isn't how that works, plussing is part of the cost.

>>52565381
ummmmm sweetie the loyalty changes before you get priority.....

>>52565381
I just don't know anymore whether someone is trolling or truly stupid.

>>52556232
In essence, yes. Planeswalkers are essentially just enchantments that have free activated abilities once per your turn, except they can't be responded to. They get to break the rules and marginalize a now underpowered and forgotten card type because muh characters.
They are the snowflakiest of card types, it's something that flies in the face of the spirit of the game on a fundamental level. The player is supposed to be the magic wielder instead of a supplicant bitch crying for help from fictional characters.

>>52565320
That's not what I said though. The creature entering the battlefield doesn't go on the stack. My point being that you can play a creature, and if it resolves your opponent doesn't get priority again until after you activate its ability. In this sense it's just like a planeswalker.

>>52565449
That's just the direction the game is going.
Spells as a whole have been getting gutted ever since Thragtusk and stapling spell-like abilities onto permanents.

it's turning into a moba
the idea of floating effects are too complicated for little Timmy. Everything needs to physically exist on the board, otherwise it shouldn't exist.

>>52565468
And I'm saying that planeswalkers get a free ability with a different name that doesn't obey the rules. It's somewhere between an etb effect and an activated ability that's total horseshit.

If you don't counter a planeswalker, you're fucked. and only one color can counter. It's made the game even more unbalanced.

>>52565502
>If you don't counter a planeswalker, you're fucked

You can plow through them, family. They can be directly attacked or even just ignored if you can just burst down the player. They are bullshit, but they aren't autowins completely.

>>52565524
Never said they are, but ignoring something and hoping it will go away is hardly an intense game of back and forths. It's uninteractive.

Also the amount of direct planeswalker removal lately has been abysmal. Here's hoping for the next Hero's Downfall.

>>52565502
You must be deliberately misunderstanding at this point. The way a planeswalker gets a "free ability" is not special or unique. My whole point is that the sequence plays out exactly like a creature with an activated ability does. Take eldrazi displacer for example. If I resolve an eldrazi displacer. My opponent does not have priority. I can activate its ability and blink one of my creatures. With its ability on the stack, In response you can kill my displacer with lightning bolt, but the ability still happens. You don't have an opportunity to kill it before I can activate its ability. Also no one cares about your salty fucking opinion. Go be bitter about planeswalkers somewhere else.

>>52565502
>doesn't follow the rules
>literally the same as any other effect

You dumb nigger, loyalty is a cost, it works exactly like any other cost effect.

>>52565582
Hero's Downfall is Standard trash dude.

>>52565583
>if I resolve
If.
It requires you to have an relatively easily removed creature live an entire turn before you can use it if it's an ability that requires tapping. By activating it you're also required to pass priority to see if it resolves, giving your opponent a chance to respond somehow. Most activated abilities are also not free because you're paying mana for it, making it 100% unlike planeswalkers in every way.
relly makes u thank

>>52565597
Yes, that's a shitty cheap workaround. It's a """Cost""" which is actually a benefit. please.

>>52565682
>the only way for the effect to work in the rules
>""""""shitty cheap workaround""""""

Literally end your miserable existence

>>52565682
>By activating it you're also required to pass priority to see if it resolves, giving your opponent a chance to respond somehow

That is exactly how planeswalker abilities work. Disallow will counter a planeswalker ability same as a creature's activated ability.

>if
The fuck is your point here, planeswalkers are easier to counter than creatures, as they can get hit by negate, a fairly common sideboard card

Everything else in your post is just salt and not worth mentioning

>>52565773
Well, yes. The rules were around, then planeswalkers were. Chicken and egg here. Planeswalkers are a clever way to skirt around normal restrictions.

>>52565682
>By activating it you're also required to pass priority to see if it resolves, giving your opponent a chance to respond somehow

If they have a card that specifically counters abilities? You do know that killing a creature after its effect is on the stack doesn't stop the effect right?

Can as foretold play X spells like hangarback, ballista and sphinx rev?

>>52565682
Desolator pls leave.

>>52565784
>Everything else in your post is just salt and not worth mentioning
Because I'm right you mean. and yeah sorry my bad you can respond to their abilities.

>>52565801
It can play them for zero

>>52565801
Yes but it should be considered 0 cost so probably not for the best since walker would die immediately.

>>52565789
What normal restrictions? Mana? Not every activated effect costs mana. Are those skirting normal restrictions too?

>>52565909
Yes, mana is one way. That and summoning sickness and ease of removal. The days of a permanent coming in early and making bombastic changes before being able to be answered is long gone - except for snowflake cards.

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Posting my high quality general image for whoever wants to make the new thread :^)

>>52565964
Bretty gud desu

>>52565964
God I love fizzling path's.

As Foretold ban when?

>>52565963
Not all abilities are affected by summoning sickness or are on easy to remove cards.

Jesus Christ it's like explaining things to an infant.

>>52565964
Goyf is the cancer killing modern tbqh

>>52566030
Quite the opposite. Banning goyf would kill Modern.

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>>52566030
Do your part to stamp out midrange: Switch to Tron today!

>>52566019
>OTHER PERMANENT CARDS ARE SNAPPY AND BOMBASTIC TOO!
Are we playing the same game? Maybe twenty years ago what you're saying is true, but nowadays things are much more balanced for a slower, more answerable game.

>>52565996
So what cards are we putting into this As Foretlold deck?
AV seems a no brainer.
Birds?

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>>52566058
>nowadays things are much more balanced for a slower, more answerable game.
>Modern
>interactive

>>52566058
Where did I say that. Just stop responding you're making an ass of yourself.

>>52566071
Birds doesn't work anymore since the rule change.
Honestly I'm just gonna jam it into u/w control and see what happens.

>>52566137
I meant Birds of Paradise or other mana dork

>>52566146
Oh. Could be good to slam it early, yeah.

>>52566040
>banning goyf would kill modern
In what way?

>>52566071
Restore balance.

>>52566054
>Do your part to stamp out midrange:
>Play midrange
>>52566058
Have you ever played mirage tempest standard decks? The first big RDW deck was then and it played ironclaw orcs.

>>52566277
>Tron
>Midrange
The meme is calling Tron a control deck, you dip.

>>52566210
Loss of trust. You don't ban something that's been reprinted in every single MM release and then expect the format to carry on as normal.

>twin
Only reprinted in MM15, which was a mistake.

>>52566365
This and the fact that the cards not broken in any way. Its a vanilla beater oh the horror. Its even less broken now since it dies to Push every time.