How to fix the unsullied?

>>52539371
Stop promoting the idea of "trained from birth" soldiers being gods in the field.

"Trained/bred from birth" is expensive and inefficient.

Why pay the costs of maintaining, educating, and developing a human being over nearly two decades to make a somewhat more loyal and skilled soldier, when you can take the money that would be spent training that child and instead put that effort into recruiting, training, and equipping several dozen times as many adults instead?

>>52539371

They're already fixed :^)

>>52539484
Well you don't have to deal with PTSD, remorse after killing,desertion, mutiny, etc

>>52539371
Dont cut off their balls and stunt their development, for one

>>52539543
>Dont cut off their balls
I thought fixing meant cutting off their balls.

>>52539484
All else being equal, soldier x has superior training to soldier y. Soldier x and soldier y have the same cost of upkeep. Other than upfront cost, in the long term soldier x is going to have greater value.

This is like basic finance

File: elsa07-1319189787[1].jpg (164KB, 584x702px) Image search: [Google]

164KB, 584x702px

>>52539541
If you want your soldiers to be utter wrecks then yeah.
You could exercise that from like 3 and older and engage in PvP games, fostering advanced physical development. Stuff like fullcontact hide and seek and, later on, catch. Making a warrior
And warriors gotta be healthy. Feeding is training.There are clearly proven ways to foster neurological development which will help the child thrive academically later on. I am sure this wil transfer just as well to being a fighter.

And a fine warrior will need to be emotionally stable. Know what that means? Lots of love and attention and encouragement from day one.

They will need discipline. Day one is a bit early for that, but having responsibility can be be taught early on.

And of course a warrior needs to know how to get along with others. Making sure the kid is well socialized prepares it for war.

(Pic related is just not something that actually works)

>>52539371
Fix in what sense?

As a plot element that needs to be wrapped up by the end of the story? Easy; send them to man the Wall.

As a thing that makes sense? Well anon, GRRM's list of "shit wot don't make sense" has quite a few items higher up than the Unsullied that need to first be addressed.

>>52539757
>GRRM's list of "shit wot don't make sense" has quite a few items higher up than the Unsullied that need to first be addressed.

I'm convinced at this point that GRRM's whole interview where he said LotR made no sense because it didn't detail Aragorn's tax policy was just him being cheeky.

>>52539543
Or wait at least until the men are grown. Then cut off the balls.

>>52539371
Give them proper training and armament fit for the times. Unsullied fight in the nude with only a shield, helmet, spear and shortsword which in comparison to knights are useless. Discipline or a lack of fear don't matter when the opponent can cut through their formation without any real harm to themselves.

Dothraki are also useless due to being nude guys on unarmoured horses without any real discipline or tactics.

>>52539541
>Don't have to deal with PTSD
Yeah, no. I'll have you know, PTSD is not an elaborate ruse for crafty veterans to get tax refunds. It's a disability that affects humans. You can only hope that your soldiers will be too afraid to show that they are disabled.
>No desertion, no mutiny
You know, at some point, you're actually gonna have to send your soldiers to fight something. They're gonna have to interact with a normal human being, eventually. Assuming they know how to talk, and they must, then it's pretty safe to assume that whatever you do, they will always have a chance to get influenced.

>>52540180
Cutting off an adult mans testicles has a high chance of death from bleeding out.

>>52539636
But soldiers die from stupid shit like disease all the time on campaign.

Upfront cost is an issue if you have a huge turnover.

>>52539636
When soldier x dies, you have to wait 20 years to replace him

>>52540311
Actually, Dothraki tend to get by on numbers, horseback archery & more. Facing them in an open plain is considered suicidal & despite their lack of discipline & siege tactics, they've definitely got skill on horseback.

>>52539371
The Unsullied get by on discipline & collaboration. They don't have the muscle of others but they're loyal to a fault.

>>52539371
They're fine.
Just stop fucking watching HBO and read a motherfucking book you goddamn illiterate.

>>52540492
I think that was their real strength, yes.
That and there doesn't seem to be a great deal of professional full-time infantry in Westeros and Essos in general.

>>52540492
You can get everything you mentioned, including muscles, by using regular soldiers. Using foreign soldiers for a bodyguard worked very well.

>>52540465
>charging entrenched spearmen with light cavalry

File: Melisandre.jpg (133KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 500x500px

Since this seeems to be an ASOIAF thread, I would like to remind you that this woman right here literally did nothing wrong, ever, and if people listened to her, things would go better for them.

>>52540132
It was him saying, in a roundabout way, he liked to ask and play with questions Tolkien didn't really bother with. Gurm has nothing but respect for the books, and anyone who thinks "What was Aragorn's tax policy" was Gurm taking a pot shot at the Hobbit Father needs to lighten up.

>>52540386
Remember the point of the Unsullied was you buy more. The people who produce them sell them at a mark-up and have yearly "classes" they graduate out to paying customers. They're not a standing army, they're an auxillary force you buy. The only reason Daenerys had so many was because she stole literally all of them.

>>52539371
1. Give them westerosi equipment
2. Make them drop the spears
3. Give them 2-3 javelins that they can throw at the enemy

Unsullied are wasted when used as fodder like normal soldiers. They should be given the role of shock troops with heavy armor or as bodyguards.

File: f_a596e33502[1].jpg (24KB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 320x240px

>>52540571
>Remember the point of the Unsullied was you buy more. The people who produce them sell them at a mark-up.


How can anybody possibly afford them?

>>52540569
Except she's a crafty sheming seductress and never plays out her cards in the open
That and Stannis has a fart stuck crossways

>>52540626
Why not just pikes and gambesons?

>>52540666
IIRC massively rich slave traders ran that entire region's economy. Most wars were fought between trade princes who purchases Unsullied and merged them with mercenary companies like Daarios. Mereen and the other cities were filled with wealthy weirdos with lots of enemies. You of all people should understand this kind of thing, Satan.

So having the military equivalent of Hungry Man meals lying around was a pretty sensible business idea.

>>52539371
Sully them?

>>52540386
This. If you're going to wait that much time you better use them as elite troops and not as fodder like peasants.

>Daenerys steals an army of human robots, who always follow orders
>An army that doesn't feel pain, doesn't retreat, doesn't disobey, doesn't rape and pillage
>Proceeds to instill the idea that they're people into their minds
>Which makes them simply a bunch of well-trained eunuchs
Why does Daenerys keep fucking up?

>>52540843
Because the books clearly make her out as an incompetent who only gets by because of her looks and bloodline. She's not really supposed to be heroic; we have Jon Snow for that.

But HBO and the show-only fans can't clue in on this for some reason.

>>52539371

Let them dick around.

>>52540568
>You can get everything you mentioned, including muscles, by using regular soldiers. Using foreign soldiers for a bodyguard worked very well.
Not within Westeros. For every Barrastian Selmy, you have tons of backstabbers.

Mercenary companies have had a reputation for unreliability in Westeros too. Gold Company is an extreme exception.

>>52540900
That's the thing about Dany. She's heavily flawed but D&D can't seem to see that. So many mistakes she made which she regrets & only survives thanks to her existing assets.

>>52541053
Weren't Dany's personal bodyguards throughout the series all motivated by a lot more than just the money she gave them? Daario wanted to nail her. Barristan and that Dothroki guy had genuine loyalty to her predecessors and by extension her. Jorah was a mix of both.

>>52540900
You're fucking retarded.

The books make it clear she's a sheltered teen. Which frankly goes to show just how fucking amazing she is. Because she should have been dead a long time ago. But she's too smart to die.

Of course, we don't get that on the show because show Daenerys is a badass.

Daenerys is supposed to be a confused girl with a dream and motherfucking dragons.

>>52540666
by having the kind of money toy raise and keep an army in the first place.
People hiring mercenaries aren't poor. Fantasy Trumps and Billy Gatesses are buying these guys

>>52541142
>But she's too smart to die.
No it's because there's like a dozen different people with a vested interest in seeing her live.

>>52539371
With a hot knife?

File: 640_bob_barker_20050609_jantti_53049719.jpg (50KB, 620x350px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 620x350px

>>52539503
Underrated post

>>52541178
Fantasy Trump's Unsullied would have to wear much shinier outfits.

>>52539371
The reason why Unsullied have to endure unnecessarily cruel "training" is well, because they are meant to be sold.
Think of it. You have a region where the concept of a permanent professional army that actually fights is alien to all states. You got a region were wars are entirely fought by soldiers that you buy one way or another, and are won by whoever throws the most money. At this point, do you even care about what "the most efficient way" is? The Italian Condottieris fought with mostly outdated weapons and openly faked the outcome of some battles, and no one cared as long as it stayed in Italy. Italy was conveniently playing with its own set of rule despite the rest of the entire world. The same happens in Slaver's Bay, but in a kinda same-but-different way. Let me get this straight, you don't actually need to waste thousands of perfectly fine baby slaves and puppies to get your elite soldier force. The Unsullied training system really doesn't make sense if they were to fight against anything else than other Unsullieds, Dothrakis, or common mercenaries. These guy only know 3 weapons and nothing else, and if I remember well, they don't even have ranged weaponry. But it's fine. Because "trained for birth" is nothing but a marketing gimmick for the cities who make their money exclusively out of selling Unsullied to cities who will always rely on Unsullied and will never actually confront their Unsullieds with anything out of the ordinary that the Unsullied-traders have artificially created.

>>52540568
>charging entrenched spearmen with light cavalry
The point is to hit the enternched spearmen's supply wagons with arrows from horse back till they are no longer entrenched and you can hit them with arrows, not charge a spearwall with horse archers like you're the ai from mount and blade.

>>52541456
I dunno, Gurm plays up the Dothraki as pretty idiotic when it came to fighting. We get the impression they spend 95% of their time fighting each other or pitifully under-defended farming villages. There's a reason they never really made it outside the Dothraki Sea.

>>52541053
Hire from Norvos.

>>52541456
But the dothraki actually charge entrenched spearmen and I doubt anyone leaves their baggage outside a fortified camp.

>>52541103
The majority of characters encounter far more disloyal allies.

>>52541491
They never made it out because they distrust any water horses don't drink.

>>52541555
I mean like they never left that immediate area. Did they ever even try going after Braavos or Myr or whatever?

File: latest[1].png (36KB, 581x468px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 581x468px

>>52541555
That only explains why they don't go further north.

>>52541580
In one of the first chapters, it's said that Pentos pays off dothraki so they won't attack and raid it. Presumably, every other city does it as well.

>>52541717
You and I both know the Dothroki absolutely would attack those cities if they could stop fighting each other for longer than half a day.

File: things-you-didn-t-know-about-attila-the-hun-u1[1].jpg (59KB, 1024x535px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 1024x535px

>>52541717
hey rich empire, give me more money for my army and I wont attack you honest

>>52539371
Give them the D

>>52541491
Yeah, they are horse nomads but they don't seem to use bows. Lack armor and siege too. They would get massacred by Westerosi knights and men at arms.

>>52541931
>but they don't seem to use bows

File: 1456102587968.jpg (331KB, 517x768px) Image search: [Google]

331KB, 517x768px

>>52539503
Came here to post this

>>52541742
It's generally consider cheaper to feed them than hire mercenaries. The cities just give them food & they leave.

>>52541931
>but they don't seem to use bows

They do, very effectively. At their wedding ceremony, Khal Drogo received a large warbow meant for use on horseback.

>>52539541
>Well you don't have to deal with PTSD
You don't have to deal with it in professional or citizen-soldier army either. You just kick affected soldiers out of the army and let them ruin (and probably end) their own lives in record terms and replace them with new recruits. Pre-modern society is a bitch...

>>52542101
People I think are forgetting the entire point of the Unsullied: absolute loyalty.

They're pre-packaged battle droids incapable of doing anything other than following orders of whoever owns them. An Unsullied commander isn't going to pull a Red Wedding.

You buy them to reinforce your troops and not have to worry about them deserting or betraying you if you suck. Dany's use of them in such large numbers as unprecedented and only happened because she killed their owners and enslaved them herself. Even if she didn't see it that way.

>>52539371
Don't castrate them. Castrated soldiers would in reality be useless.

>>52541807
All of them? All by yourself?

File: octa layin down the law.png (21KB, 132x146px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 132x146px

>>52542313

>>52541717
Don't forget it was Qohor that broke the first great khal's khalasar. After that they have stuck to only raiding and in fighting.

>>52540626
Most Westerosi use spears.
Or pikes, or other polearms, in the books at least.

>>52540900
i've read the books you're full of shit
danny is grums 14 year old dream princess
(i think he describes her like stunningly attractive or something in his original pitch, which is kinda messed up when talking about a 14 year old) but anon its da middel ages and people fucked young cause they died at 25 years old eks dee lindybeige told me no they didn't ,we're maturing faster than ever thanks to being the most well fed generation of humans ever, a 14 year old in medieval times wouldn't look as mature as a 14 year old today

grum tries his best to make her look like an innocent well meaning fairy (and fails horribly mind you) the plottwist is that she's supposed to drop her naivete and become more strict/pragmatic. That's what the whole shitshow in merreen was all about
>>52541142
>book dany is smart
no she just gets macguffins handed to her by the plot.
>show dany is badass
hahahahahahahahahahaha

>>52541931
Dany never is really a part of their raids, so as far as I remember there isn't any reason we would really know how they actually fight. It's heavily implied that they make a lot of use of bows though. They probably don't use siege weapons since the larger cities simply pay them off, but that doesn't really mean they have no concept of it or are unwilling to use them

>>52543487
IIRC in one of the Westeros chapters someone brought up the idea of a Dothraki invasion and he said it'd be a mixed bag. A massive horde of them probably couldn't take a walled keep like Casterly Rock or Winterfell or even King's Landing. But they'd decimate the countrysides and villages spread throughout the continent and basically force everyone to stay behind walls starving until the Dothraki all got bored or died.

>>52542166
To be fair, I think she did give them the option to leave if they wanted to, but they all stayed because they just loved her sooooo much and fighting was all they ever knew anyway.

>>52543582
That was said, but I think it kind of assumes they can't just take siege engineers prisoner and force them to do shit. At this point it's probably more like winter would just fuck them up

>>52543609
I think it was more of the latter than the former. Not saying it's hard to believe a few felt grateful she freed them, but I think overall they're just so brainwashed most couldn't really see any other future besides fighting for her.

The book does say some started developing personalities and giving themselves knew names based on things they liked but most remained combat robots.

>>52543609
All things considered their only other options were basically going to another city and being slaves again or just going full bandit

>>52543650
I think they're ultimate undoing would be the fact Dothraki suck at teamwork. Eventually someone will stake umbrage to getting bossed around and go do his own thing.

I know Drogo had a lot of clout but that was mostly because of the mysticism around his unborn child. Considering how quickly that all fell apart I feel even if he did invade Westeros someone at some point would break off from his leadership. Then it would just turn into a bunch of warlords who ultimately freeze death, but not before guaranteeing Westeros's worst winter ever.

>>52541142
You sound like my younger sister when I insulted her for reading twilight.

>>52540900
>But HBO and the show-only fans can't clue in on this for some reason.

The show was written with idiots in mind and thus leaves out the characterization bits that actually make sense of all the issues that the show has.

>>52543582
One character says that on the open field their horse archery and would fuck some shit up, but as soon as it came to a siege they'd utterly fall apart.
In the same breath they note that Robert, battle-hungry idiot that he is, would actually probably meet them in the open field where'd they do the most damage rather then do the smart thing and wait them out until they fell apart.

>>52544079
Do you think the Greyjoys would've tried teaming up with them?

Pyke is probably the safest place in Westeros from the Dothraki. Even safer than the North as a whole.

>>52544179
>Greyjoys
>Teaming up with anyone

>>52544179
They wouldn't have any reason to really "team up". They'd probably just use the opportunity to raid more

>>52543224
Are you one of those guys that thinks Victarion is actually smart because he can't read between the lines or into different narrative viewpoints or something?

Dany's whole thing is that she has the POTENTIAL to one day be a decent ruler (she's smart enough and willing to learn), but literally every ruler figure she's ever met either has zero interest in teaching her anything at all and is much more interested in manipulating her combined with the unfortunate temperament and judgement problems of a teenager. She's Jon without even the distant male role model of a good ruler his father was, so she's all potential and absolutely zero refinement or practical learning. She's a terrible ruler because she has no idea how to be one and literally doesn't even have EXAMPLES of what a good ruler looks like.
It doesn't help that out of all of her advisors exactly ONE has her best interests at heart, and that one spends a LOT of time running as fast as he can from taking any greater responsibility then he already has and only really takes up any authority or direct assertiveness at all when Dany appears for all intents and purposes to be fucking dead.

Her character phrase in-universe could be summed up with "wasted potential"; in-universe she has the seeds of something impressive and even great, but because of her circumstances and gender she's basically completely screwed until she can get her hands on an advisor who knows both how to tell her no and how to actually rule who DOESN'T want to rule in her place.

>>52539371
>Unsullied legendary reputation is due to their intense mental conditioning, making them stone-age battle droids
>When Dany "freed" them, she started to erode this conditioning; the Unsullied no longer believe they are truly property, and are developing personalities
>Unsullied ultimately lose their fighting spirit, and many begin to have mental breakdowns as their pre-constructed world of slavery and death crumbles as they face the sobering fact there is more to life than murder
>For the first time in literally ever, the Unsullied have mutinies and desertions

It would have been cruel to keep them enslaved, but it is crueler still to let the Unsullied realized what they are (and what they are not) as they unsuccessfully try to assimilate to the outside world. In the series, it is mentioned multiple times that Unsullied that live with civilians literally go soft, often getting fat and out of shape. They are very susceptible to basic human desires.

>>52544179
No. Balon Greyjoy is ambitious but a complete idiot politically.
It's even worse when you read about the kind of man his father was and just how terribly Balon measures up.

>>52544179
Eh, Moat Cailin means that the North is safe, but you're totally correct about Pyke being completely safe. Dragonstone too.

Dorne would also probably do pretty well. Natural bottleneck, plus deserts.

>>52539707
Sauce?

>>52544232
It's yet another in-universe example of Dany doing the right thing and it having unfortunate consequences because she's never really been exposed to the reality of ruling; that there is no "happy ending" and everything you do has something that comes after it and so you have to deal with that part too.

>>52544206
>>52544213
I could see the Ironborn getting chummy with one of the inevitable splinter Khalasars. If only because it gives both sides some much needed manpower to raid their bigger neighbors.

>>52544221
Jorah had her best interests at heart, too, he just also had his interest in exploring her anatomy at heart.

>>52544241
Was his dad a better raider or something?

>>52544253
That looks like the comic "Nextwave". I remember liking it at the time. No idea how well it aged

>>52544289
I'm pretty sure Balon was the one who brought raiding back

File: tumblr_m8892oZ1Tx1r7hbvco1_1280.jpg (320KB, 1000x750px) Image search: [Google]

320KB, 1000x750px

>>52544289
>>52544316
Yeah IIRC Grandpa Greyjoy put aside a lot of that Iron Price garbage because he saw the writing on the wall and knew the current power players wouldn't tolerate it.

Balon brought it back because he had a massive boner for his culture's history of Viking LARP and it seems most of his people did as well.

I love the Ironborn. They're all a bunch of backwards idiots who deliberately reject basic civilized behavior because killing and stealing for all your stuff is cooler.

>only interesting thing that happens in the books is the Night Watch fighting zombies, and Daenerys leading the Mongol Hordes
like goddamn can we just have books about the not!mongols instead

>>52544282
Jorah doesn't know fuck-all about ruling, and ultimately his agenda was selfish; he wanted her for himself and warned her against trusting ANYBODY because that way she relied on him and only him.
>>52544289
Yes, but that's actually besides the point.
Quellon Greyjoy was a reformer who was trying to modernize the Iron Islands and bring them more in line with the rest of the Kingdoms. He did away with a lot of the customs that pissed off the mainland and did a lot to modernize them (he actually was the first guy to bring Maesters to the Islands) and was a war hero during the War of Ninepenny Kings. A lot of the older lords hated him, but since he was ALSO legitimately a fantastic fighter and general with a brutal temper once you pissed him off so they went along with it. And it actually worked. The Iron Islands were more prosperous and powerful then they'd been in centuries.

Then Balon comes along and after (it his highly implied) poisoning his father he blown away decades of progress in under a year and dragged his culture back down to the point of uselessness and long-term ineffectuality.

Quellon Greyjoy was a guy who was born to what amounts to a race of stupid fantasy orcs who saw potential in his people and was determined to drag his people kicking and screaming into modern day and actually make something of themselves.
Balon decided that productiveness and long-term planning wasn't cool and why not just be useless fantasy orcs again?

>>52544270
Yeah, it is. I really like how Martin has written this narrative from Dany's POV describing how she's trying to do right by everyone, and failing 99% of the time. Because a ruler doesn't do the right thing because their morals tell them to, they do the right thing because it will do best for their people, and their country.

I think in the next book we're going to see a minor civil war among the Unsullied, and it will cripple Dany.

File: Ironborn.png (214KB, 350x310px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 350x310px

>>52544402

>>52544368
They're basically traditional fantasy orcs as people: rather actually make anything significant of themselves, they REALLY like killing people and taking their shit even though they're hard working and industrious and could be quite formidable if they put any effort into it.

I think the comparison to orcs is deliberate, because Euron Greyjoy as of Winds of Winter is now literally an insane wizard king who wants to kill the world for lols and wears spiky black armor and even fucking uses uses a red eye as his personal heraldry.

>>52539371
Hand them, as well as the position of power and dragons, over to Tyrian.

>>52541589
Directly south there's really only city states that just buy them off or have defences they couldn't breach without dragons, and valyria aka scary magick DOOM.

Going west means either a long ass trip around the worlds largest river or somehow convincing your khalasar to go across it. A river that has whole sections contaminated with a scary magick DOOM disease.

And further east there is like one place worth robbing which is behind 20 other places full of
even scarier ancient magick DOOM than anywhere west of them that nobody with any sense would go near.

>>52544429
They really should have just killed most of the leaders and drowned god religious figures after the Greyjoy rebellion. It would have saved everyone a lot of trouble

>>52539503
SPBP

In all honesty though, why would you ever neuter your men? Men need testosterone, otherwise they become DYEL manlets. The cost-benefit return of loyalty over proficiency seems unwise, at best. If you train them from birth, will they not already be loyal to your cause? Why limit their ability like that on the field when you already have their undivided attention?

>>52544515
Actually when Aegon the Conqueror beat them into submission no few of his lords basically told him to wipe the Iron Islands clean of life rather then deal with them. He refused because genicide is time-consuming and because Egg the C wasn't a bad guy all things considered.

>>52540569
That lady turns me into the sweating man jpeg whenever she comes up on screen. Wouldn't even be attracted to her type IRL either.

>That scene where she's tying up Gendry

>>52544464
Valyria's Doom was caused by magic (or it's failure, technically), but it was actually a natural phenomena aside.
The boiling water is from active underground supervolcanos relatively close to the surface, and the perpetually bad weather is the water being evaporated into clouds which then gather up in the already warm region and turn into rain clouds which then turn into constantly thundery and stormy weather.

The ships constantly sinking probably comes from shit weather, boiling waters, and the entire area basically being fairly shallow because there's an entire collapsed peninsula just under the surface that had lots of high mountains and jutting cliffs; the area is a death trap for ships.

>>52544515
Would've never happened with Neddy Boy in charge. He took in Theon with the understanding he'd kill the little ponce if Balon stepped out of line again. Which did actually work.

Murdering scores of people just on off chance they /might/ do something bad wasn't Eddard's style. Remember he was disgusted when other council members suggested assassinating Dany.

>>52540900
Never read the books, but the tone I got from watching the show was that she was a massively unprepared little girl who kept making impractical decisions against her wise-as-fuck advisor's wishes, and when they somehow ended up turning in her favor due to blind-luck, she'd twirl around and go "Ha, I told you it would work", with a smug grin on her smug face.

I don't see why everyone's saying she's a Mary Sue and all that. If you pay even just a little attention, it's quite clear the directors and producers are pushing the "naive girl who doesn't know what she's doing" angle quite a bit.

>>52540569
She has the right idea but she's also got her head up her own ass too.
She's even AWARE that prophecy is tricky yet seems blind to her own flaws. I mean her magical future-seeing smoke literally SHOWED HER the protagonist of the books when she asked for the protagonist of the books and then instead of re-evaluating her beliefs she just wonders why her magic is broken and not showing her the guy she thinks it is.

>>52544697
What? I missed that.

>>52544696
>If you pay even just a little attention, it's quite clear the directors and producers are pushing the "naive girl who doesn't know what she's doing" angle quite a bit

Yes and no. Your analysis is accurate to how the books work, though most of her advisers are actively trying to manipulate her instead of getting her to do something sincerely in her best interest as a ruler.

The show does touch on this a little but it's not as obvious as in the books. And the fans won't hear of this at all because all they see are dragons and a nice rack.

>>52544710
She asks her fires to find Stannis, by asking for "the One True King of Westeros repeatedly.
It keeps showing her Jon and she thinks it means her prophecy stuff is broken and it's just showing her the "King in the North" rather then re-evaluate her preconceived ideas of who the true ruler is. She's smart enough to know something is off, but not smart enough to ever consider that she might be wrong either.

>>52544733
>And the fans won't hear of this at all because all they see are dragons and a nice rack.

I'm a bigger fan of her ass honestly.
But yeah, that's the show in a nutshell; superficially the same story, lacking much of the important shit in favor of more tits.

>>52544755
She's also probably just not all that confident in her ability when it comes to divine shit. A lot of her shit is some combination of tricks and whatever the fuck shadow lands magic is

>>52544923
She admits that a lot of her most spectacular magic is just tricks because real magic isn't particularly impressive.

>>52545052
>because real magic isn't particularly impressive.
Well there is that guy roaming the countryside reviving people and lighting swords on fire

>>52545178
>is

>>52544079
Robert Knew not to fight the dothraki head on. He even said this to Ned. It was literally everyone else that assumed that he will

>>52545178
The reviving thing was both difficult to do and ultimately not very VISUALLY impressive; basically it seems to bring you back from any fatal injury but if you cut a guy's head off they stay dead.
The issue is in a lot of cases it just looks like that they survived a wound that should have killed them, which happens without the aid of magic; most people hearing about Dondarrion's resurrections are just assuming he was injured or maybe he wasn't actually killed at all, while the stuff Melli does is visually spectacular and so everyone calls her a witch and a sorceress and is afraid of her.

Without that fear and respect magic by itself doesn't seem powerful enough to actually accomplish much; it's just too unreliable and the costs of using it are often too high to pay on a regular basis, which is why Melisandre spends most of her time manipulating people instead.

>>52545278
Thoros is still alive. Also the flaming sword bit is just a trick, he coated his blades in wildfire.

File: stannis_baratheon.jpg (408KB, 1600x831px) Image search: [Google]

408KB, 1600x831px

What are his chances of victory?

File: 10991293_1036664839684336_2890199424982295212_n.jpg (77KB, 679x960px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 679x960px

>>52539371
Give them gas masks

>>52545507
Slim to none. King Stannis with Jon Stark ruling as his Warden of the North would be a pleasant outcome but I doubt I'll wrap up so tidily.

Stannis would also be a pretty mediocre king. Still a step up from what they've had though.

>>52545579

Stannis would be an uncharismatic dictator, utterly boring and ultimately lacking the influence required to solidify his stranglehold over the power of the throne. Unfortunately, charisma is the most important stat for long-lasting rule in the 7 Kingdoms - something that Jon Stark has.

>>52545473
Thoros was known for doing that at tournaments before we actually see him through a character's perspective, but wouldn't the sword have had green fire if he did that?

>>52545623
Becoming King would be incredibly difficult for Jon. First of all, he has no truly legitimate claim. King Stannis is the only scenario where someone undoes the whole bastard thing. Jon Targaryen is also almost impossible because it isn't proven in the books and it would mean Dany has to actually take charge.

The Lannisters and the Freys presumably hate him. The Dornish want Daenerys. The Tyrells only care about who's got power, which Jon doesn't have. The Tullies are probably the only people in the South who would actually throw in with him.

And those are all things Jon has to deal with after his problems on the North. Which includes the Boltons, the wildlings, the traitorous members of the Night's Watch, and of course the Others.

>>52545727
The Dornish might stop giving a shit about Dany and just go all in with that other (possibly fake) targaryen kid who I can't remember the name of. Assuming that whole fiasco doesn't just result in a giant plague anyway

>>52545473
Lamp oil, not wildfire. Also, he lights it with blood drawn from one palm prior to his fight with the Hound- the fire being magical in nature is heavily implied, if not outright acknowledged.

>>52545507
>Pissed off Ironborn getting ready to wreck shit.
>Daenaerys remembering that she's the blood of the dragon, getting ready to wreck shit.
>Sansa getting set up for greatness by Petyr, getting ready to wreck shit.
>Jon about to resurrect, getting ready to wreck shit (maybe but not necessarily by helping Stannis.)
>Aegon the Latecomer landing at Griffin's Roost, getting ready to wreck shit.
>Dornish about to put Myrcella on the throne, getting ready to wreck shit.
>Cersei still not dead, ""Ser Robert Strong""" about to defend her honor, getting ready to wreck shit.
>STILL not Azor Ahai.

Slim to none, mate.

>>52545841
>Sansa getting set up for greatness by Petyr, getting ready to wreck shit.

If given the opportunity Sansa will almost certainly team up with Jon. She may have been a little cold towards him but she's smart enough to know he absolutely would never betray her or compromise her safety.

>>52545571
underrated post right here

>>52541589
In the north there is the Kingdom of the Ifequevron, which the Dothraki fear and distrust as spellcasters. There's a lot of Dothraki superstition about the area.

>>52546210
There's a lot of Dothraki superstition about everything.

"It may be that we shall lose this battle," the king said grimly. "In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless."

The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead — "

" — you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."

Ser Justin put one hand on his sword hilt. "On my honor as a knight, you have my word."

Is Shireen the next ruler of westeros?

>>52546072
>John and Sansa hooking up.
I really hadn't thought of that and I'm a touch ashamed. She gets a loyal ally, he regains all that's left (besides Arya, but she's suffered a partial identity death) of his family. He gets the men he needs to secure the North, she gets almost guaranteed passage through The Neck. He gains legitimacy (if they marry, or she legitimizes him,) she gains the swords she need to back her crown up.

It's actually really convenient for everyone involved. Bravo, anon.

>>52546317
> High potential of being the last trueborn Baratheon

I'm down.

>>52546355
>if they marry

Will only happen if Jon is actually Rhaegar's kid. And even then it'd be one awkward wedding.

>>52545727
>>52545840

The best outcome would be a Targaryen Triumvirate. Jon, Dany, and Shorty would get along just fine; and Dany would trust them enough to share power and accept their advice. Jon would ideally be the marshal, and Shorty Lannister would ideally be the prime minister figure.

>>52539371
Give them actual tactics. Not once in the show did I see a shielf wall or vaguely phalanx-like formation. They get surrounded by terrorist rebels and break into 1v1 melee, despite having spears and shields and only barely being outnumbered.
My autism is triggered way too hard.

>>52546676
Also won't happen. All three of those characters have different agendas. Only one of them sincerely wants to rule Westeros--Dany. Shorty is being put up to it. Jon would almost certainly prefer Winterfell over the entire continent.

I can see Jon declaring for Dany provided she help him stop the others, legitmize him, and help him secure Cersei and Walder so he can give them the Viking crew-cuts he almost certainly has planned for them. In that order of priority.

>>52546692
That's just flash for the show. In the book, the Unsullied dealer outright says you can and should train them in whatever way you see fit when you buy them. When you buy Unsullied, you're buying a Take Out army with unquestioning loyalty. Anything extra is your responsibility. Which makes them seem like a scam, but that's because they totally are.

>>52539707
And yet despite all this the Ottoman empire used Janissaries to enforce their rule for hundreds of years.

>>52539484
It's actually a good scam for a slave merchant if he's careful.
>He takes the babies of slaves and trains them to be nothing but loyal fighters.
>He advertises this army wisely so the word spreads a good distance.
>Gives them basic equipment, spear, shield, maybe daggers.
>Once you've got a decent sized force, you tell people all over about your army of trained since birth fanatic warriors.
>Now people who wouldn't think better are going to take a look at this and think it's some perfect fighting force that they can go and conquer their enemies with.
>Of course you need to give a demonstration so you hire a veteran mercenary to pose as a slave.
>Slaver charges out the ass for this force and fucks off.
>Oh I'm sorry the army didn't do so well too bad it's not my fault you're a incompetent leader.

>>52546780

>
Also won't happen. All three of those characters have different agendas. Only one of them sincerely wants to rule Westeros--Dany. Shorty is being put up to it. Jon would almost certainly prefer Winterfell over the entire continent.

Thats why it has a good chance of happening, provided Dany has a verifiable way of finding out that they are both Targaryens. At that point, its simply a matter of whether or not Dany wants to be in the company of family or manipulators.

Jon has no aspirations for the Iron Throne, so he would never contest it. His strong sense of justice and his charisma would make him the ideal marshal of the realm, and his upright character would be valued greatly in a Dany reconstruction era where she would inevitably purge Westeros and bring order to the realm.

Shorty would have no problem being drowned in the coins of the state, finding creative ways to make the rest of the Lannisters suck his dick at his own amusement. Plus he actually administered Westeros before, so his appointment would be the optimal choice.

Of course, rocks could fall and everyone dies.

>>52542179
see
>>52546815

You guys didn't actually think Martin had come up with something original did you?

>>52546850
>Jon has no aspirations for the Iron Throne, so he would never contest it. His strong sense of justice and his charisma would make him the ideal marshal of the realm, and his upright character would be valued greatly in a Dany reconstruction era where she would inevitably purge Westeros and bring order to the realm.

You are forgetting Jon has way more pressing issues to deal with. He's largely segregated from the political nonsense going on in the South. He only threw in with Stannis because he needed manpower for the volatile situation at the Wall.

Jon's number one priority is the Others. After that it's finding out what to do with the wildlings the Others dislocated. Then he's gotta fix the Night's Watch. Only once that stuff is handled can I imagine him coming to the table and negotiating his potential role as Warden of the North and/or Hand of the Queen.

I would hope Dany would recognize Jon's fight is the one she should focus on as well but given her decision-making so far I'm skeptical.

>>52546911

All of that can be addressed with manpower - something Dany has by the boatloads.

>>52543224
You know the age of consent is 14 in quite a few European countries right?

>>52546815
Janissaries weren't castrated. Hell, a bunch of the problems the Ottomans had was because they started allowing the Jannissaries to have families and all the social instability that started to bring.

>>52544464
In the books, the Magical Leper Colony was in a ruined city north of Volantis. We still haven't seen Valyria up close, but it's implied several times to *still* be a volcanic wasteland.

>>52546982
Now where the hell did I get that idea from then anon, thanks for telling me.

>>52544246
Moat Cailin would actually destroy the entire Dothraki war march. Their horses certainly can't cross the marshlands so they're definitely restricted for following the narrow single-file pathway to the keep, which they have no means to seige or capture.

>>52546815
>>52546982

Ottomans (and many other cultures) did use eunuchs for things like bodyguards and harem guards, but I don't know of any historical culture that deliberately created ARMIES of them.

>>52546676
I see no reason for Dany to trust Jon.

>>52547583
She's trusted far less honest people for much more superficial reasons than Jon can offer.

But overall you're right. Jon will be a Literally Who for Dany by the time she arrives in Westeros. If anything he'd probably be the first person she's met who's totally indifferent to her beyond wanting to use her dragons against the Others.

>>52546676
>The best outcome would be King Stannis winning. Jon ruling the North, House Florent Ruling the Reach, and Tyrion ruling the westerlands would get along just fine; and The other claimants to the iron Thrones get killed. Jon would ideally be the hand of the king, and Shorty Lannister would ideally be the master of coin. Davos could be master of ships

>>52539707
>She... Is truly my son.

>>52547713
>Jon would ideally be the hand of the king
Jon would certainly resent this position. Now I might not be as inside Jon's head as I like to think, but seeing he's basically Eddard v2.0 he'd probably prefer Winterfell.

Besides, why would Stannis make Jon his Hand when IIRC Davos already holds that title in Stannis's court (such as it is)?

>>52547625
He's the bastard of someone who was related to the death of her father. There's plenty of opportunity for her to see past that, but at face value I would really only expect hostility

>>52547923
I can't remember if it was Jorah or some other Westerosi who she encountered, but didn't someone tell Dany the only man worse than Ned Stark was Bobby B himself?

Considering Jon's connection to Eddard is something he flaunts proudly, I imagine they won't be on the best of terms at first if at all.

>>52545571
Honestly this. Death Korp are a solid take on Sci-Fi unsullied, with all the same implications about the sort of people who would be their masters.

>>52545052
> because real magic isn't particularly impressive.
It's just not yet particulary impressive. Keep in mind that the glass candles burn for the first time in centuries...

>>52539371

Give them skirts and complete the gender-''correction''

>>52544538
Leave the balls, take the cock. They keep testosterone but can't reproduce.

>>52539484

Take one look at history, ffs.

File: ten_towers___A song of ice and fire.jpg (138KB, 1024x751px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 1024x751px

>>52544402
>TFW the riches and morst powerful house is Harlaw whose lord is known as Rodrik the Reader.
>Gets mocked and belittled by other ironborn houses.
Who here supports House Harlaw?

>>52549639
Fuck that nerd.

>>52547713
The Florents are idiots so far.
Axel Florent is every cucksucking sychophant ever, and people like that are never very good at their jobs because they spend all of their time affixing their lips to the asshole of their superiors instead of DOING their jobs.

>>52549385
That pyromancer on Qarth was impressive too. The issue is, the flashy shit isn't necessarily any more effective then mundane methods as Melisandre herself points out in her POV chapters.

It's like if you could learn to cast fireball like in D&D, but every time you cast it you'd need to chop off a finger or suffer a third degree burn over twelve percent of your body and learning it took over a decade and that was the only thing you learned, no extrapolated other powers.
Or you could just build a trebuchet and light some hay on fire and get the same effect.

Magic in Planetos is cool, but not really practical; the most useful applications of it so far involve lots of using it to manipulate people into doing mundane things in mundane ways for you, such as using glamours to disguise yourself or others.

>>52549639
Nobody supports the Harlan.
Or the Ironborn in general.
They want to be orcs? Let them be. They even have their own Sauron-lite right now to sacrifice their lives meaninglessly en-masse.

>>52540666
wait, Satan makes a good point
How is there this huge market for mercenaries in Essos? It seems with all the constant chaos and warfare like it would be FAR less wealthy than the Seven Kingdoms that, despite recent events, is usually far more peaceful

>>52550730
You're making multiple incorrect assumptions there.
Firstly; that all of Essos uses mercenaries, and they don't. A lot of the Free Companies are mentioned to spend pretty much all of their time in the Disputed Lands between Volantis, Tyrosh, and Myr, so basically ONE relatively small region of Essos gets most of the mercenary work.
Secondly, warfare in Westeros is hardly uncommon as A World of Ice and Fire shows. Full-scale multi-kingdom warfare IS unusual (and in every instance was hugely damaging to the kingdom), but lots of significantly more localized rebellions, power struggles, and conflicts happened in Westeros so often that A World of Ice and Fire book had to kind of gloss over them to focus on the big stuff, generally mentioning that they happened and were over in a year or so and then moving on.

The Free Cities also seems to be the biggest user of mercenaries in Essos, and it's kind of notable that while they seem to compete for influence and power, the actual cities themselves rarely take any damage and that's where the money is actually coming from.
The only Free City that seems to stay out of it is Braavos, and that largely seems to be because as an island nation with no land holdings at all land warfare is kind of pointless to them.

Plus, I'm guessing nobody wants to fuck around with the Iron Bank of Braavos.

>>52544640
>>52547050
And those things would be spooky and weird as all hell to people as superstitious and as set in their ways as the Dothraki, who are consistently depicted as being terrified of magicians weird shit and large bodies of water they can't ride a horse through.

And actually I'm aware the Sorrows are quite a distance north of Volantis, but I'd argue the dothraki would give the whole area a very wide berth for the above reasons. Literally everyone is scared of greyscale after all.

>>52550781
>The only Free City that seems to stay out of it is Braavos

Maybe "mostly out of it" but apparently they keep picking fights with Pentos over the whole slavery thing. Though their last war ended almost 100 years before the events of the books, so maybe that's a moot point or maybe they've been involved in these other conflicts and we just haven't been told about them yet.

>>52550895
The Sorrows is pretty explicitly some weird magical shit going on there; a fog that doesn't lift, a disease that turns you into an insane petrified zombie, a river that sometimes just DOESN'T ACT how a river should act?
Before that chapter I thought greyscale was like sclerosis or even some kind of leprosy. It never occurred to me that it might be so wholly unnatural.

>>52544179
>>52544206
>>52544241
>>52544289
>>52544368
>>52544368
>>52544449
>>52544402

Ironborn=literally just a bunch of water niggers

>>52539371
They have low testosterone, which limits muscle growth and self-esteem. This makes bad soldiers. Give them dicks and balls.

>>52541142
>tfw too intelligent to die

File: 1.jpg (17KB, 852x480px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 852x480px

>>52541365

For fucks sake mate, learn to use this next time, then people might be bothered to actually read what you vomit out online

>>52539484
You need things like shock troops, anchors for a line, or troops you know will hold a line, or just be loyal.

Numbers matter, but other aspects matter as well.

Does anyone actually think a song of shit and faggots is well written?

>>52546355
There might be some contention between them down the line between them because deep down they both want the same thing: Winterfell.

Sansa is prissy and a little vain, but she's not Cersei. She's very much Ned Stark's child and Winterfell is her home. And with Robb dead and Bran and Rickon MIA, she's the lawful owner of the keep. She might not appreciate Jon swooping in and taking it even if Stannis or Dany or whoever legitimizes him. She doesn't hate Jon, but she doesn't really like him either. She'd probably find it unfair and disrespectful to her family if Jon got Winterfell and she didn't.

>>52539484
Loyalty, it isn't feasible for your whole army but neccessary for your honor guard.

If they are brainwashed enough they will through themselves on their own sword to protect you.

>>52550673
Disguising Mance Raider isn't exactly a mundance thing. Also, there is the magic of the vargs and the greenseers. That isn't mundane shit either. The series kina emphasises just how fucking useful just one dude being able to look through an animals eyes is, especially for an army.

>>52539484
>anon says historically good tactic is a bad idea
Okeydokey lets go make a fun little list.
Greek hoplites
Carthaginian hoplites
Mamluks
Mesoamerican soldiers
Janissaries
Some Roman legionaires
Tribal soldiers from places such as south africa, mongolia, etc
Early shock infantries of alot of small civilizations in the middle east
The list goes on and on
But a fa/tg/uy would clearly know alot about how combat works right?

>>52556967
I think by "mundane", anons mean it's not visually impressive. Like the wizards in this setting aren't blowing craters into the earth or flying or that stuff.

>>52557251

Don't know about rest of the list but Janissaries were not trained from the birth. They were mostly recruited between 8-12 years old children.

>>52549623
>take the cock
Gay

>>52544538
>manlets
castration makes men taller

>>52549639
I love Rodrik. He's the only goddamn one of them who realizes their lifestyle is short-sighted and pointlessly dangerous, and that they'd be much better off not romanticizing their worst qualities.

File: 80's cersei.png (432KB, 640x902px) Image search: [Google]

432KB, 640x902px

>>52539371
Serious answer is to make them primarily missile troops, particularly if they had early firearms.
Unsullied are super disciplined, co-operative, and don't really feel fear or pain, but are significantly weaker than a man with regular testosterone. Logically, this would mean their best place isn't in a close-quarters fight, but in something that requires drill, precision, and a lack of concern for their own well being. I could see Unsullied being excellent musketeers, protected by formations of mercenary pikemen, who can still form up and hold resolutely in hand-to-hand if it comes down to it.
Also, since they're already taking magic pain-killer drugs, I'd just assume that one of the side effects of the drugs is that it lets them grow a little more muscle than you would expect. Combining that with an insane training regimen, and they'd be pretty fearsome even if they are weaker than men who have their testes intact.

>>52539371
Unsullied are meant to be used as phalanx, so as long as they have a semi competent leader, they're don't really need fixing.
That said what do you guys think about Dany pulling an Alexander, and dying of some disease halfway through her conquest of westeros?
I kinda like the idea of Jorah coming back with a cure to greyscale that actually doesnt work and he ends up giving it to her

>>52539371
On the real world castrating a child would make them grow weird, odd bone structure and muscle mass, but their castration is described as being offered to a deity ... so there is some magic involved.

If anything could be done to make them better it would be to actually show them in action more often.

How realistic is game of thrones for a medieval setting?

>>52559580
On a scale of 1-10, about 3. It really goes for those "dung ages" tropes and plays up how horrible everything is to an absurd extent.

>>52559633
> It really goes for those "dung ages" tropes and plays up how horrible everything is to an absurd extent.
>t. someone who never read the books and gets most of his info on them from show memes

People grossly exaggerate the "everything sucks" aspect of the series. It doesn't help the show focuses on heavy violence, but that's because most show-only fans are mouthbreathers.

Things are far from sunshine and rainbows in the books but that's because the books focus heavily on a large-scale multiside war raging across the continent for half the series. Gurm makes it clear people are for their standards comfortable in times of peace, even in the harsher Northern regions. The level of violence and chaos is unprecedented in-universe.

The series still isn't that realistic, mostly because it's very stylized. But "lol it's just grimdark" is totally inaccurate.

File: 80's hound.jpg (121KB, 650x910px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 650x910px

>>52559580
The biggest realism bonus it gets from me is how important a role logistics play, and how disease from injury is bad news. Other than that, it's a rather exaggeratedly dark take on the medieval period, but it's also got some fun comic book elements so I forgive it and don't take it too seriously as a comment on what middle ages Europe was "actually like".

>>52539503
Came here to post this.

>>52561059
>pic
>80s Hound
>The Simpsons didn't exist until 1989, and even then remained a handful of crude sketches until the very end of that year

>>52557251
There's a big difference between being "trained from birth" and coming from a society which emphasized martial training which was almost every society in human history until recently. Even the Janissaries, the archetypal slave soldiers, where expected to be more than soldiers. So in the end, the Unsullied are nothing more than fantasy make believe who are only good because the plot says they must be.

>>52551286
I always assumed that the potion they were fed during training included some substance that worked as a testosterone replacement

>>52561041
>People grossly exaggerate the "everything sucks" aspect of the series. It doesn't help the show focuses on heavy violence, but that's because most show-only fans are mouthbreathers.

No, not really. The books are divided into 2 roough but broad categories of people, the machiavellian schemers who always get away with it, and the dumb suckers who keep falling from it.

>Things are far from sunshine and rainbows in the books but that's because the books focus heavily on a large-scale multiside war raging across the continent for half the series

A war, if we believe the sociology the books present us, that should have happened a hundred plus years ago, since there's no way the Targaryens could have held onto The Land Of Chronic Backstabbers when their magic and dragons weren't around to even the score and the amount of men they can raise is less than any one of their vassal kingdoms.

>The series still isn't that realistic, mostly because it's very stylized. But "lol it's just grimdark" is totally inaccurate.

Stylized is different from "utterly fucking retarded". It's just not realistic. Bronze/stone age primitives can't build bows that can shoot and kill armored figures on top of a SEVEN HUNDRED FOOT WALL, but of course that happens. Knights in real life weren't turtles off their horses, but GRRM loves that little trope. But the single most unrealistic thing about this is that nobody has the proper social consequences for their endless dickery, they just get stuck (if they do) by being caught up in the bigger schemes of a bigger dick. Something like the Freyr betrayal of the Starks would get them into eternal pariah status for a real feudal kingdom.

Sully th-
>>52540802
Oh ffs

>>52561465
Don't forget the mountain my friend

>>52542024
>>52541959
Bows are around, but they are hardly mentioned except when Drogo goes hunting.

The only account of large scale battle is Dothraki throwing themselves at an Unsullied phalanx for an entire day before giving up and running away.

>>52539371
Literally just don't neuter them. Eunuchs get all messed up physically, you'll lose a lot of the fighting potential of men by chopping their balls off.

>>52561465
Well, the Frey's *do* seem to be heading for eternal pariah status, if they aren't wiped out first. I seem to recall every one of Roose Bolton's subjects at Winterfell treating the Freys with utter contempt, even the ones who hated the Starks.

As far as knights being turtles, he's pretty bad about that, but he also shows the other side from time to time. Victarion is described as pretty agile when he's leaping from ship to ship in full plate, and old Ser Barristan has that cool moment where he traps a gladiator's sword against the side of his armor and then kills the guy.
The show is pretty dreadful when it comes to armor being useless, though. I was very disappointed that the Mountain wound up looking more like a lumbering oaf than a terrifying war-beast in his big duel scene.

File: Clone_trooper_squad.png (6MB, 3800x3200px) Image search: [Google]

6MB, 3800x3200px

>>52539707

So... like the Clone Troopers of Star Wars?

File: enjoyable post.jpg (103KB, 500x750px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 500x750px

>>52545571
Thats ..PERFECT!

>>52558244
>castration makes men taller
Shame that the Lannisters didn't hear about that in time

>>52544221
>Dany's whole thing is that she has the POTENTIAL to one day be a decent ruler (she's smart enough and willing to learn)

Not sure where the fuck you got that from. Dany's whole thing is that she is the prophesied one; her one foray into being a leader is a complete and absolute disaster. Former slaves by the end of her reign are begging her to be allowed to be slaves again because under her rule their lives suck. She has advisers who tell her that what she's doing is a bad fucking idea and she completely ignores them. Dany's a decent conqueror, but as a ruler, she's completely hopeless.

File: 1490798519115.jpg (108KB, 523x585px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 523x585px

>>52563254
She is a competent leader you shitlord

File: 1485732585840.jpg (24KB, 401x372px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 401x372px

>>52563952
>Daenarys Targaryen
>competent leader

>>52561208

They're a dumb downed version of the concept, dumb enough for average people who don't read history books to appreciate. They succeed in the world because every "professional soldier" is either a hired rapist, a pirating rapist, a marauding rapist, a rapist on horseback, conscripted farmers, career assassins with the expertise of a marauding rapist, or the ever so dependable city guard. Even the most hardened, dedicated fighting unit in Westeros - the Blackwatch - is a combination of the above.

The only real conventional threat which can trounce the Unsullied are the horseback rapists, and thats because all they do besides fucking is riding and fighting. Everybody else can get plot-raped the fuck out by the Unsullied without much explanation.

>>52564709

She would be a competent leader in a civilized era. Her biggest problem is she cannot adapt. Her character is as rigid as the cock which fucked her into compliance, and it only bends or conforms at the constant prodding of others around it. Ironically, she is the best choice for a purge of the Seven Kingdoms as she has no interest in preserving the politics of the Houses.

File: death_korps_of_krieg_by_sunnykoda.jpg (327KB, 1024x475px) Image search: [Google]

327KB, 1024x475px

>>52545571
This was almost exactly what I thought when I first saw the unsullied.

>>52566088

If only the Unsullied were controlled by a leader who doesn't waste their lives or insist on humanizing them.

I'm starting a SIFRP game soon starting just after the Tragedy of Summerhall and focusing largely on the War of the Ninepenny Kings and everything surrounding it. Who would be some major power-players around that period? Obviously the War of the Ninepenny Kings is where Tywin, Blackfish, and so many others proved themselves, but who in the political landscape would be people to look out for?

>>52539484
>when you can take the money that would be spent training that child and instead put that effort into recruiting, training, and equipping several dozen times as many adults instead?
This wasn't really an efficient thing to do until the widespread availability of firearms, though the crossbow filled this niche in China starting in a much earlier period than.

Though that still doesn't make raised from birth soldiers that economical.

File: 690cc39dcd68398b96975f6b3d4cc4a7.jpg (192KB, 736x881px) Image search: [Google]

192KB, 736x881px

so what the fuck is going to happen with Braavos?

>>52545579
Stannis might not last long on the throne, but he is exactly what Westeros needs; someone to root out the corruption and lickspittles.

>>52563254
anyone would make for a decent conquerer with living weapons of mass destruction that render any form of fortification obsolet.
>>52563952
no she is not
>>52565860
also no she would be a horrible ruler in a civilized era. Bad temper and unable to relly on others, 2 key features for a decent ruler.
Not to mention that she lacks the ability to produce an heir.

>>52540504
The books are also shit though. Quite literally in places.

>>52568785
SUNSET

>>52546982

Well, that and the Janissaries were initially treated very poorly by the Ottomans relative to how important they were so they logically demanded better compensation; and as the guys holding the guns, who was going to protest?

>>52539371
strap on

>>52544515
All things considered ol' Robert did good. The rise of the new way is exactly what you want to see from crushing a rebellion well. If you slaughtered their leaders and shattered a culture I wonder if you'd just see further rebellion.

>>52547775
kek

>>52539371
how can a bunch of castrated cunts be the most skilled and relentless army? that's make no sense, who have write this bogpile of shit?

can we have a asoiaf house creation thread?

it will be fun

>>52566191
/qst/?

>>52539484
As the books put it, a lone Unsullied isn't better that a knight or a freerider, but on a continent where backstabbing is a hobby these guys have the advantage of being 100% loyal and having unbreaking morale (of sorts... they're high as fuck)

Well first you need a knife...

>>52539371
>>52539484

I think the entire point is that they're going to be set up to eventually fail like the Spartans.

>>52571467
Takes a lot of balls to fight like the Spartans

>>52571486
That is what they stored their balls up for, yes.

>>52561465
>A war, if we believe the sociology the books present us, that should have happened a hundred plus years ago, since there's no way the Targaryens could have held onto The Land Of Chronic Backstabbers when their magic and dragons weren't around to even the score and the amount of men they can raise is less than any one of their vassal kingdoms.

or no one dared so far cause some houses might see an opportunity to declare for the throne and take your lands.

Having a ruler who holds little real power over your lands is preferable to getting potentially wiped out.

>>52557251
>Greek hoplites
>Carthaginian hoplites
Citizen soldiers. Children grew up as children with some focus on PE. Martial training started later.

>Mamluks
Depends on the time. Originally they were captured slaves from central asia. So already grown up.
Later on they were more like knights. Meaning the first few years were childhood then came the period of training. So also not from birth.

>Mesoamerican soldiers
Don't know enough about them.

>Janissaries
Recruited around 8-12. Then went more or less to school. Learned, reading writing, much PE, martial stuff, converted to Islam if not already born into (later on anyone could join).
So not trained from birth.

>Some Roman legionaires
You refer to those born in castris? Joining the legions had a minimum age, you know? Obviously training from birth was not the case.

>Tribal soldiers from places such as south africa, mongolia, etc
Not really "trained from birth", fighting was a skill like fishing in those areas. Almost no one was is full time fighter in tribes, while almost everyone can somewhat fight. Also: Not soldiers, so right out.

>Early shock infantries of alot of small civilizations in the middle east
Such as?

"From birth" is just bullshit. Remember most of mankinds history child mortality was incredibly high. The increase in average life expendency in the last centuries was not because we somehow lived longer, but because more children survived their first few years, thus the average went up.

In a medival world it's economocally stupid to buy a shitload of babies for something like training them into soldiers because many would die before they are two.
Much of your investment would be worthless.

>>52541589
The fuck kind of watershed is going on with that river? I don't remember the entire coast being massive mountains.

>>52540352
child soldiers have been shown to be particularly cruel and remorseless even as adults. The parts of them that should have developed into compassion and empathy are just burned out of them if you have them killing people before 16

>>52541589
At the very beginning of the first book they explain that dothraki showing up to pentos (one of the western most cities) is not uncommon. It was only rare that they stayed as long as they did. They do travel everywhere except where oceans and mountains block them

>>52573345
>It was only rare that they stayed as long as they did.

Well Khal Drog's whole shtick is he was smarter and more big picture than most Dothraki. And he knew someone was petitioning him.

>>52539371
give them a few firelances attached to a stabbing spear & a machette with a point.