Amonkhet Spoilers

>>52537134

First for exert sucks.

Token synergies look fun. I hope there's a new toy for B/W modern tokens.

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Kefnet the Careful
2U
Legendary Creature - God
Flying, indestructible

Kefnet the Careful can't attack or block unless you have seven or more cards in hand.

3U: Return a land you control to it's owner's hand. You may draw a card.

Some disagreement over parts of the translation. If you're korean or have an english version, feel free to chime in.

>>52537134
Nest of Scarabs is only good with Black Sun's Zenith.

Everytime you put more -1-1 counters, even on your own guys, you double the amount of bugs

Drake Haven triggers whenever you cycle or discard a card. Cycling a card is discarding a card. Does this mean it triggers twice when you cycle a card?

>>52537311
No, it doesn't. It's babby-handling text for new players that aren't aware that cycling counts as discarding a card.

>>52537311
cycle or discard a card
>OR
it'll only trigger once

>>52537311
WHENEVER <cycle OR discard> DO <effect>
If it were two abilities, it would, but it's not.

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>>52537345
Which is baffling, since it's printed on the Cycle cards.

>NWO making magic great!

Do any of the spoiled cards so far look like they might boost some standard madness deck?

.>>52537193
>I enjoy playing 3 mana do nothings as a draw go control deck in a format where losing on turn 4 is common

card sucks

>>52537134
>Hopes for Embalm and Exert?
Not really excited for either. The whole sadomasochistic -1/-1 counters on your own dudes seems interesting though.

>Are brick tokens a gimmick?
Of course they're a gimmick.

>Will someone find a way to make infinite bugs with Nest of Scarabs?
Already been done in Modern, Standard is a matter of time.

>Things you'll be loading into your deck?
I run vampire tribal, so either nothing new, or a whole new deck.

>Thoughts on cycling lands?
I tend to run very few lands, so they aren't going to help me any.

>>52537381
Anything that discards
Anything that gets a bonus from discards
Cards that can bring back discarded cards

>>52537345
That's shitty.

The reason I brought it up was that cycling is an activated ability, the cost of which is discarding a card. So after cycling the card, the game would see that you discarded a card. Theoretically, I thought someone could stifle the cycling of the card, but you'd still draw from the discard.

But I just looked it up, and the game has a specific rule for this: whenever an ability triggers on cycling a card, it triggers upon the discard cost being paid, not the resolution of the cycling effect. Which is counter intuitive, but okay.

>>52537357
>>52537367
This is true, but it only works with the above ruling, otherwise the effects wouldn't be simultaneous.

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>>52537193
>Kefnet the Careful can't attack or block unless you have seven or more cards in hand.
Gross.

>>52537311
This is going to be the number one judge question at prerelease.

WotC's own dumb NWO policy is going to force them to print a reminder on how a goddamn Or clause works.

How soon until they just get rid of the stack entirely?

>>52537378
>>52537419
Yes, but some people would think it doesn't count as discard because it's inside brackets - it counts as cycling and not discarding.

You'd be shocked what the minds of inexperienced players come up with.

>be WOTC
>have a shitty standard with no good control cards and 70% of the meta is two decks
>one of those decks is a w/u/r/g combo deck that relies on a creature
>prints a 3cmc green creature that prevents countering creatures

>>52537425
now imagine it was 6 instead
card is actually on the playable side and might actually be good

unfortunately Wizards has once again run into the problem where a card is "too powerful" when rounded down but completely unplayable when rounded up

they probably wanted this to be 6.5 cards in hand but that doesn't work

imo they should start rounding down for blue and red cards while green a white cards can remain rounded up for the next 4 or 5 sets. They have had their 2 years in the sun, time for other colors to have fun

I kind of feel like Green dumb aggro could be workable.

Turn 1: Blisterpod
Turn 2: Exemplar of Strength, kill the pod
Turn 3: Crocodile of the Crossing, swing for 9, gain 1 Life
Turn 4: ???
Turn 5: Victory

Or something along those lines, at least.

>>52537476
>imo they should start rounding down for blue and red cards while green a white cards can remain rounded up for the next 4 or 5 sets. They have had their 2 years in the sun, time for other colors to have fun

Stop.
Pendulum ideology is why we have color imbalance in the first place. Continuing the cycle doesn't do anything good, it just leads to the pendulum swinging back two years later and undoing everything.

Right now WotC is fiddling with a number of colors. There have been experiments with Blue to give them removal that isn't just a catch-all like Counterspell, meanwhile new mechanics are being added for Red and other mechanics are being aggressively costed, like Kari Zev's Expertise and Wrangle being potentially usable unlike Act of Treason.
This is a solution that moves forwards into new territory and offers actual solutions instead of merely a redistribution of problems.

Pendulum ideology is a mistake.

>>52537193
Wowzers. I even actually like the red one, and can't come up with any defense for this blue one at all. Wretched.

>>52537555
Changing blue to fit the NWO is also a mistake though, because the NWO sucks, and should not be further developed.

Creatures have power creeped their way into absurd and unfun territory thanks to the marketing department and NWO.

>>52537555
>pendulum ideology was a mistake
I agree but I would rather the pendulum be permanently on the blue side and have green and white go fuck themselves

the literal two most boring/worst colors have been the best for too long and that needs to change

its time for white and green to be the shitty splash colors and get the filler shit mythics and rares for a while

and the problem with them testing these new effects is that they fucking suck
the wrangle effect is terrible and will always be terrible meanwhile Green and white have had removal since forever now and have been taking mechanics from the other colors for the last few years with 0 real limitations
green has basically completely enveloped black and red and taken multiple core mechanics from them and white has just been constantly given the most undercoated overpowered cards in the sets
while blue is left out to die with nothing every single set and red gets even worse

maybe don't print shit green and white cards but just print blantantly broken and overpowerd blue and red cards ffs so that people don't have to play midrange value shit

>>52537643
>I would rather the pendulum be permanently on the blue side
No you don't

>>52537621
>Changing blue to fit the NWO is also a mistake though

What did he mean by this?
NWO refers to the policy of linking card complexity to card rarity, among other simplifications designed at making the draft environment less confusing for new players.
Take Into Custody is common.

>>52537193
At least it'll be another good staple for Patron of the Moon EDH, r-right?

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>>52537733
We can dream

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>>52537193
>kept clinging to the wrong translation because muh wijjards
you're pathetic.

>>52537718
Let's face it, that's not the case.

Almost every non-conditional counterspell released these days is rare, whereas the more complicated, conditional ones are uncommon at most.

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>>52537814
The non-conditional ones we have though have some kind of second effect to them though
How many new players do you think will know how to actually counter triggered and activated abilities with Disallow?

The good common/uncommon counters we have just say counter spell of a certain type
>Dispel
>Ceremonious Rejection
New players can pretty easily understand what it means to counter an instant

>>52537799
There was a standing invitation to post a correct translation if you were aware of one.

>>52537914
>Confirm Suspicions
Investigate is a key mechanic of the set. Investigating three times isn't particularly complicated, nor is the most basic form of counterspell.
>Overwhelming Denial
A core mechanic of the set, plus "can't be countered" on top of the most basic form of counterspell. Maybe this deserves to be uncommon, but certainly not rare.
>Scatter to the Winds
A core mechanic of the set, plus the most basic form of counterspell.

>>52537733
That's the first thing I thought about honestly.

>>52537643
>>52537705
I remember when it was that way.
When green was the Loser Color, solely there for new players and their wurms while everyone else played Real Magic.
When one of the top decks of the format was always some form of blue-based deck.
Yes, it's gone too far the other way now.
Doesn't mean it needs to go straight back.
There needs to be a fucking midpoint.

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>>52537345
The dumbest part of this is that it will make things HARDER to understand for new players, not easy. When something from a past set with a discard trigger is in play and someone cycles a card, a new player will be convinced that it doesn't count, after all, all of the other cards specifically say cycling is different from discard, right?

>>52538260
Whenever a player discards a card, do X. (Cycling is discarding)

>>52538299
Please apply to Wizards and write card descriptions. It's baffling when some schmuck on the internet makes things more clear than they can.

>>52538335
Honestly, what I'm guessing happened is that they all started as just being 'Whenever you cycle a card' and at some point they decided to add regular discards as well. And the person who did it just went through the database, searched for that line of text, and added 'or discards' and then they just shrugged because it worked.
Because they've used the other style wording before on cards.

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>>52537193
>seven or more cards

Fuck, do you think that's restrictive enough? How about you have to be at 20+ life too

If this translation is accurate I'm kinda upset because this guy sucks pretty hard. The gods feel super lacking in design which is disappointing.

>>52537914
>counter triggered and activated abilities

How many times do you think this is actually relevant in a limited environment? Because the answer is extremely extremely low.

Stop sucking NWO's cock

>>52537535
I feel like making this now

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>>52538517
>How about you have to be at 20+ life too

That doesn't seem too hard.

>>52538699
>Standard legal
The gods so far are trash in Modern. They mostly read "Pay loads of mana, opponent discards PtE/Dismember"

At least the Theros gods had some passive effects in Enchantment-mode that common removal wouldn't hit.

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>>52537535
Well if you're playing on Victory for turn 5, then turn 4 should be Onward.

>>52539028
This feels like a shitty version of Temur Battlerage.
Is there a single good Aftermath card they've spoiled yet? This is the third one.

>>52538517
No, that's the white god.

>Okerta, God of Solidarity 2W
>4/4
>Indestructible, First Strike
>Okerta, God of Solidarity can't attack or block unless you have 20 or more life.
>3W: Create a 1/1 white Zombie creature token with lifelink.

>>52539165
>first strike
Ha.
Wizards is just going to give it Vigilance.

>>52539219
Nah, it has a bow. First Strike's the only flavorful option for it.

>>52539298
But what use would an indestructible creature have for First Strike?

>>52539312
wither and infect.

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>>52539312

>>52537392
>playing your wincon on curve as a control deck
Come on, son

>>52539298
>implying it won't be Reach

>>52539363
Considering that they decided against putting wither into this set, I'm inclined to say they have no reason for first strike.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/amonkhet-down-business-part-1-2017-04-03

>what if the gods were designed for modern?
>laughing_dismember.jpg

>>52537193
More proof that Wizards hates Blue.

>>52539750
More proof that Timmy cracks the most packs you mean.

>>52537535
Why stop at Blisterpod when we can go to Modern and use Young Wolf?

>>52537705
Yes I do, I want to rage at Blue decks so hard that I throw in the towel and play a Blue deck just to beat other Blue decks and then truly understand what a beautiful world the world of draw-go and Counterspell stack mountains culminating in who draws the first Thrun is.

You know, just like high school Magic.

>>52539861
Oh no he fell for the blue boogeyman meme.
Preorder your Serpopards today while it's only $9.00

>>52539750
The big problem with Blue is that it holds a near monopoly on stack interaction.

Which makes them unfun to play against, and get's you the occasional cards which specifically disallow being targeted on the stack.

Which is why they had the split counters for the longest time.

>>52539887
No really, that was unironically the most fun I've ever had playing Magic, and I want to play it again.

My wife who I know for a fact would play UB viciously is playing RWx aggro because she never knew the joys of casting a good counterspell in her life. Our marriage is failing because she never learnt control magic and thinks my modern BGx deck is an oppressive control deck. Fuck you Wizards, I want to step into the reality where Blue continued to be a good colour till today.

>>52539925
Just get rid of the stack already.

I actually don't understand why people dislike blue decks. It forces interaction and thought. You literally have to interact with your opponent because half your cards are reactive whereas with green and white you just ignore your opponent entirely, play your fatties and hope you win before they do.
Kinda like RDW but with even less thought because with rdw at least there is some math to figure out what the most damage efficient play per turn is.
With green/white you just play the Hughes value card you can each turn and k is you will win eventually so there is no sense of urgency and you don't have to play smart

>>52540030
yeah, I'll be fine with blue when I can bolt their spells off the stack. Giving only one color control of the stack is total horseshit. And don't give me that "black has a counterspell too" line, because that I can at least pay life to get rid of.

>>52540030
Because, that interaction and thought is entirely on their side of the table.

Without blue at the table, your thoughts are "If I attack, do they have something that will foil my swing? Will I be open to their counter swing damage? Will the flash in a defender or do they have a trick that would let their current defense turn the tides, like a deathtouch combat trick?"

With Blue, it is "will they even let me have a thing to do?" that dominates that.

Now, quick fast decks generally are the counter to blue. A good Zoo can likely beat a control deck, just because their creatures are generally 2/3's for 1cmc.

But that's still the thing, Control is only fun for the controller, and the mirror matches end up being no fun to watch either.

Though, a good deal of it is just the flaws of MtG that have been there since day one... not to mention the power creep.

>>52540088
>Giving only one color control of the stack is total horseshit
Green has control of the board
White gets control of pretty much fucking everything
Black gets to look at your hand and pick and choose what you throw away, and murder every creature you play before you get to tap it
Red is complete garbage right now, other than pump spells

>>52540088
No?
Your bolt is multi purpose
My coubterspells only counters

If people are salty because their on curve undeecosted battlecruiser card got countered by a dinky little 2 drop spell they should stop sucking ass at the game and learn to play matchups properly, but coubterspells, and punish.

This whole
You should have only specific coubterspells for very specific sumituations bullshit needs to stop. It shouldn't be on the blue player to pick out a draw the answers they need at the perfect time, it should be on the opponent to play smart and make the blue player waste resources to open up avenues of attack

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>>52540151
>the power creep.
Love this meme.
The only thing that's been improving in power over time is the creatures. And even then, all that's been happening is creatures getting pushed up to the power level of noncreature spells.

I don't know what the complaint is. I know a guy who played back in Odyssey and all he does it complain about "power creep"
He threw a fit over pic because he thought it was going to be another Disciple of the Vault.

>>52540173
Green also has Collected Company, Ancient Stirrings, and Traverse. Blue is typically the card advantage/manipulation color but Green has basically taken Blue out of the game on that front

>>52540151
>your thoughts while playing are simple damage calculations

Yeah probably not even thinking that far as a white player honestly. If I resolved a Gideon ally of zendikar I'm actually just fucking attacking no matter what because combat math and thinking doesn't matter. I played my undercosted, overpowered card on curve and now I mindlessly swing every turn until I win.

That is how white and green currently play in standard and that needs to change
Making blue overpowered again to shut that shit down is the best way to do it

>>52540151
What are you talking about? Burn vs Control is some of the most interesting magic to watch and play. Burn players playing around counterspells, having to think about what to pitch to a counter and what to keep, throwing out fodder to keep blue from holding mana to draw. Meanwhile blue is in a desperate survival mode where every card counts. If I play a counter on their creature now, do I just lose to bolt later? A lot more interesting than: I disintergrate your guy then swing with heart of kiran.

>>52540294
>Making blue overpowered again to shut that shit down is the best way to do it
FUCKING PENDULUM IDEOLOGY

I'd rather the damn thing hang in the center instead of swinging back and forth. Too bad that in this metaphor, not having a shifting color balance apparently means the clock is broken, i.e. that Magic is dead.

>>52540324
I would rather it lean on the side of control, even if it isn't blue. Timmy strats and agro strats should be the mediocre to bad way to play the game for new players while forced interaction and complex thought processes taking into account 3-7 turns in advance should be the highest level and most successful way to play.

Things like. T1 toolcraft, t2 HoK, you scoop? :^)
Shouldn't be in the game

>>52539925
green holds the monopoly on no-interaction, whats your point?

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I've admittedly only been playing since Khans and keeping up with spoiler season since Fate, but I can't remember a more boring first two days of spoiler season

>>52540896
I have to agree actually. I went ahead and got some red expertises and wrangles (trash cards really) because I was hopeful for Exert cards I could steal and smash with for maximum gain.

But they're just spoiling garbage so far. Usually they've dropped more than one tasty card by now, but even the Gods are disappointing. All we've got is the scarab spawner, which will never be anything more than a janky brewing tool.

>>52540412

If you're going to make that a thing you need to stop making the stack blue's secret clubhouse nobody else is allowed inside.

All five colors can interact with permanents.

Blue can interact with spells, and Red can kind of sort of in a shitty way if Wizards is feeling generous.

Expand it so other colors have ways of interacting with spells or get fucked and learn to play with permanents like everyone else.

>>52541012
>Blue can interact with permanents
You're really reaching now.

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>>52541012
White also has some ways of messing with the certain spells/abilities. Aven Mindcensor is even getting a reprint, so I feel obligated to reprimand you.

>>52541056

>I'm going to pretend bounce isn't a thing because it strengthens my argument

OK, buddy, when you want to argue honestly about this let me fucking know.

>>52541056
literally
Take into Custody
was just printed

it's an actually pretty good card
it's not bolt
but it's not bad

try to stay up to day

>>52541096
Please tell me what bounce spells are being run in competitive matches right now. Because the large majority of creatures played in metagame are either so cheap that you don't care if they get bounced, or they have amazing ETB effects and getting bounced is just a bonus. Bounce almost never even breaks even in card advantage. Get the fuck outta here.

>>52541012
I wouldn't mind seeing some new counterspells in different colors with the right themes

Red has conditions and deals damage, breaking concentration.
White exiles temporarily with conditions
Black could have some conditional interaction as well

But like others above have said these colors do get stack interaction (with the exception of red because lmao red sucks as much as blue thanks maro) with creatures especially which are just better forms of counterspells

Reprint mana leak in standard and see what happens

>>52541148
Hold up.
You stated Blue could not interact with permanents. A staple Blue effect that interacts with permanents was posted.
Now you demand that the spells be run in competitive matches.

Calling out bad argument techniques is a shitty technique itself, but what are you doing anon?

>>52537718
There are two definitions of NWO:

The stated definition, by WotC, which refers to what you stated.

And the actual definition, which is the shifting of the color pie and game focus to accommodate the whims of the marketing department. The power shift from instances and sorceries to Creatures is the main example of this.

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>>52541182
>>52541148

>>52541182
You can't seriously be arguing that bouncing is on the same level as other permanent interaction. I mean, green gets can't be countered, which is basically protection from the stack. Does that count as green having "stack interaction"

This is pretty desperate, anon.

>>52537643
>I agree but I would rather the pendulum be permanently on the blue side and have green and white go fuck themselves

It's funny that the the one blue-centric format is is also the most balanced and challenging format. It's hard to encourage skillful gameplay when green, as the designated "windmill slam creatures until someone loses" is top dog. Green should've been the graveyard recursion/sacrifice color desu.

>>52541148
Echoing Truth sees some competitive play in modern. Paradoxical Outcome sees some competitive play in legacy/vintage, and standard too IIRC.

>>52541184
I would also love to see blue bee updated for the current design philosophy but they refuse for some reason

Like imagine a small blue dork that had
>tap 2B counter target noncreature spell

That would be cool and powerful but it will never ever happen because blue and red design is stuck in the 1990s where they should play with only instant and sorceries but is is meshed with new design that says instant and sorceries have to suck

So those two colors suck and are reduced to shitty splash colors at best and completely unplayed at worst

Give me grewn elendra give me deciphle of the ring(but cheaper)

Give red real creature with haste and decent effects

And stop giving undercosted Timmy wet dreams to green and insane value engines to white

>>52541238
The level of permanent interaction was never in question. Only that such an interaction existed. That condition has been met.

If you would like to state new conditions, very well. But acknowledge when the old conditions have been fulfilled so we can avoid any confusion in our topics.

>>52541253
Oh, and cyclonic rift is an EDH allstar, and sees a very small amount of play in Turns and UTron, in modern.

I'm sure boomerang sees play in pauper.

>>52541177

All I'm saying is bring it more into line so the colors stack up better on both fronts.

>Green focuses mostly on the battlefield and has weak stack control
>Red has a battlefield focus and burn but interacts with the stack a bit more with things like redirects and copying spells
>Black remains the best at killing creatures and planeswalkers but gets some options that let you interact with things on the stack to turn them to your advantage at a cost to yourself in the vein of Imp's Mischief
>White gets answers that have answers on both fronts, having conditional or temporary creature removal and either soft-counters or delaying of spells on the stack
>Blue can have more hard-counters and effect changers now that more things that interact with cards on the stack exist but has weak battlefield interaction outside of its bounce and tap-down

I just don't appreciate the "you must be at least this blue to have what is considered a skillful deck or participate in this playstyle at all" mindset.

>>52541323
Did you really think I meant that blue had zero interactions with permanents?
Is this what autism is like?

>>52541301
They tried with Reflector Mage, but it was too strong for Standard and got banned.
RIP.
Now they won't risk it again and we have to wait four years.

>>52541377
Where do you think you are?

>>52541364
I would be happy to see this but I am being realistic

Wotc aren't smart enough to do something like you suggested so the alternative is
>you just be this blue.
And I would rather have that than our current absolute shitfest

>>52541349
You forgot cryptic command and capsize.

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>>52537282
I'm seeing more potential in commander with Everlasting Torment and Pestilence

>>52541383
A 2-color 3cmc extended bounce was banned?...

>>52541423
Oh yeah. Sorry, I barely think of Cryptic as a bounce spell, but it is, and it is amazing.

So I think we can safely put the retard in >>52541148 out of our minds, he clearly has no idea about any level of magic.

>>52541383
The funny thing is that he wasn't even too powerful it's just that he shit all over Timmy strats so they had to take him out because of "frustration" when in reality the majority of the frustration aimed at reflector mage came from a whole format before he got banned with collected company cheating him out

And that was a fucking green card
Classic blue punished for green being too powerful :^)

>>52541445
Yep. Back in January.
Apparently it among others were stifling the meta. Now we have anywhere from 60 - 70% of the meta split between two decks, when previously we had three.

>>52541148
Owen Turtenwald fucking demolished people this weekend using Cryptic Commands to bounce his Snapcasters to cast more Cryptic Commands

While not technically blue the amulet deck uses bouncelands to bounce their Tolarian Academies so they can transmute them

>>52541461
But anon, CoCo forced Wizards to update their banning policy. They said so!
Any day now, Traverse will get hit, just wait for it. It's totally going to happen.

>>52541516
What did they update it to?

>Fuck interesting things, undercosted fatties get a pass

>>52541502
Not him but
>blue in legacy, vintage, and modern is good
Duh you have access to actually good cards

It would be nice if that logic extended to standard and we could get "good" blue cards instead of constant
Mana leak, with downside
Cancel, with upside
Cryptic command, but it's modes suck and it has downsides
Snapcaster, but it costs way more fucking mana and lacks a lot of the utility
Terrible creatures with retardedly expensive draw effects
Overcosted (compared to wbite) fliers
And the most goes on

Blue and red never seem to be able to catch a break and actually get a powerful, metadefining, card

>>52541574
Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise happened, anon

You're right ever since they've never had anything really metadefining, but those cards did fuel entire decks.

>>52541481

Ain't it great?

The best thing is that the people that endlessly hate on Control will be the ones bitching that only one Agro deck will be viable as it's been min/maxed to hell not having to worry that the other player may stifle their Goldfish plans.

>>52541502
>>52541459
>Cryptic command as a bounce spell

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>Wizards releases a ton of fun, build around me artifacts in Kaladesh
>None of them are worth playing on turn 4 just to have your opponent play Gideon on turn 4 and run your ass over with Heart of Kiran
>Madness mechanic criminally overcosted
>Other than Gideon the entire Battle for Zendikar block is barely played, even the Eldrazi can't crack a top deck
>They openly admit they missed the Saheeli/Felidar combo which knocks out the other combo decks that Vehicles don't just run over on their own

What the fuck happened

>>52541590
True you could throw in cards like sphinxes rev in there too

But you and I both know that after those wotc is never going to ever print cards like that again and we are instead going to keep getting "glimmer of garbage" until theybjust remove blue from the color chart altogether

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>>52541659

Business as usual!

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>>52541725
This faggot helping jack up standard's price probably didn't help. I think they said they didn't push madness as hard because of him.

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>tfw you think the Gods are extremely underrated

Is an Indestructible keyword really that worthless?

They can still crew vehicles, can't they?

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>>52541659
>>52541729

There are some fun, viable decks built around some of the artifacts like Temur Energy/Tower. Grixis Emerge is also a really cool deck to watch in action. Or heck, I have a lot of fun with Grixis Control where I've managed to get two Liliana Emblems out in one game.

...The problem is that like you said, we have incredibly easy to use beater decks that are much more consistent than anything that is "fun" or "interesting".

>>52541770
He really just needs to die.
Painfully.

>>52541848

The main thing is with the two we've seen so far crewing vehicles seems like the main thing they're good for and we have other things for that. Not-Thoth sure as fuck isn't going to attack or block in most matches and he has a mighty expensive activated ability outside of long-game formats like EDH.

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>>52541323
Well if the quality of the interaction doesn't matter, than all colors have stack interaction.

>>52541770
Planeswalkers, while cool in theory, were kind of a mistake
Baby Jace especially

Why is this new set so incredibly boring?

>>52541848
One dies to grasp of darkness already
The other is just drawing on a stick and fucking your lands

Both get to not attack until magical christmas lands comes, even worse when one of them has haste so the only viable use for it is when you topdeck it when you are hellbent.

>>52541848
-1/-1 counters really just make the gods ok tier from what we've seen.

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>>52541894
I don't know it's just, I feel like Hazoret the Pervert in particular is at least sleeper usable, in a set with cycling and graveyard mechanics I can't see her being as totally useless as people say. Like if you draw her on curve you don't need her to attack to be useful but if you topdeck her late in the game you could use haste immediately.

>>52541937

Like some anon said earlier, it's just like Kamigawa and Theros right down the level of disappointment.

>>52541960
>The other is just drawing on a stick and fucking your lands
The land bounce is optional though. You'd just do it when you want to fulfil the 7+ hand condition probably.

>>52541937
They introduce new mechanics with draft chaff

Where's the fucking Siege Rhino with embalm, Wizards

The most exciting Embalm card so far is the soul sister? I mean what the fuck show off your fucking new mechanics

>>52541537
It's in one of the Sam Stoddard articles. I don't believe he states explicitly what it became, but he noted that with the revised policies, they would have banned CoCo.
I think it has to do with % usage in the format.

>>52537193
The land bounce is optional, not the card draw. It's better than it looks at first I think. You can play it on 3 and hold up the activation to eat a heart of kiran if they attack, or eat a gideon. If it's not worth it you just cast your glimmer or counterspell. Also looks real good with fevered visions.

>>52541148
vapor snag in merfolk

and hurkyll's recall makes the hardest merfolk MU the easiest.

>>52541963

It's gonna depend a bit on how much "discard can work for you" is gonna be a thing this format, I guess. If it is good she's suddenly a lot better.

To be honest, I'm more optimistic than most, since things like -1/-1 counters and trying to make things that are normally adversities like discard or weakening your guys with -1/-1 counters into strategies are things I like to see in the game. I kinda feel like -1/-1 counters have a lot more design space left compared to +1/+1 mechanics, but that might just be the fact this has been the first set in SIX YEARS that uses -1/-1 counters.

As far as the disappointment thing goes, we're still pretty early in the season and I haven't seen a spoiler season where /tg/ did not feel like the set had nothing going on in six years, either.

>>52541640
>bouncing to get card advantage
vs
>getting 1 new card
its all situational

>>52541937
I think it's because there's nothing close to an interesting new mechanic, everything in this set is just borrowed and tweaked from a ton of other sets.

Maybe, just maybe Amonkhet is going to be destroyed in Hour of Devestation, and with nothing interesting the plane to blow up, there will be no sad fans whining for its return. The whole plane could just be a sacrificial lamb to legitimize Bolas as a threat

>"Waaah you blew up Amonkhet, now we'll never see Embalm again"
-Nobody

>Block with big fatty with your dryad arbor
>Bounce with kefnet in response
>Profit?

>>52542092
If they kill off Bolas I am gonna be so pissed...

>>52542021
It's true though, we have a lot more Commons and Uncommons than you'd normally see in other spoilers.

This wouldn't be a problem if Wizards had it in their MO to, as part of the Paradigm shift, design good Commons and Uncommons. Unfortunately they've forgotten all about that, deciding Commons and Uncommons are for grindy Limited environments and Rares and Mythics are for battlecruiser magic.

>>52542092
I like the look of Embalm because I like Flashback but none of the cards shown so far seem standard playable

>>52542118
>Nissa and Chandra go out of their way and imprison Nicol Bolas in a pyramid with the help of these new Planeswalkers and call it a day.

>>52542118
Bolas is basically confirmed to fuck up the Gatewatch next set and will probably either kill Ajani or Gideon so there is only 1 White Planeswalker in the Jacetice League

>>52542118
>Ob Nixilis becomes the big bad, because he's white

WIZARDS

>>52541960
Grasp of darkness is rotating with amonkhet though.
Being hellbent turn four or five really isn't that hard as red and you get to turn your next topdeck land into more damage. I think red is solid.
Blue might be good depending on the available draw. Personally, I think it'll see play as is as a late game finisher for control decks. Though control is gonna need a little more love to get there. Maybe UW or UB

>>52542181
>Grasp of Darkness is rotating with amonkhet thought


No it isn't.

>>52542165
>kill Gideon
Please
Has he ever not had a printing that fucked up standard? End his life

>>52542181

Nothing is rotating, which is why Standard is fucked for another 6 months.

>>52541364
W
Instant
Exile target Spell, it gains Suspend 1.

>>52542205
>>52542165

Considering people who die on Amonkhet become Zombies we might see WB 'Zombie Thrall of Bolas' Gideon

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>>52542125
Not even Sacred Cat?

>>52542118
They won't, Bolas will just be the recuring vilain who will shake his fist toward the sky saying "And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling planeswalker " before planeswalking away after getting another of his plan foiled by the jacetice league.

>>52542118

I just don't see that happening. Bolas is their big star villain-wise even though New Phyrexia might get there eventually. The same crowd the Gatewatch is targeted at generally considers Bolas to be THE bad guy of the story. They're obviously not going to beat him like this.

Say what you like about Wizards' writing, I don't think even they would have Ajani go

>I only managed to hold him off from destroying an entire plane by himself by turning his own power against him and I can never do that ever again. We NEED more people before we even THINK about taking him on.

And then have it work out OK anyway when the Gatewatch ignore Ajani's sage advice.

>>52542165

But Ajani and Gideon are the two most likable planeswalkers. Can't we sac Liliana or Jace?

>>52542173

He's not white, he's...blackish-purple? Something weird.

>>52542205
The one from Return to Ravnica block was mediocre, wasn't it?

>>52542250


>But Ajani and Gideon are the two most likable planeswalkers. Can't we sac Liliana or Jace?

Likability has clearly never been one of WOTC's prerogatives in character design.

>>52542173
Nixy has been a demon for a white now, my dude.
And the entire jacetice league is white too.

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>>52542250
>>52542173
He's grey.

>>52542250
I'm too deep in Liliana's pockets to ever want to see her dead, and Jace is Blue and even if I detest his character, we gotta stand up for good blue cards that warp metagames around them because not doing that leaves us in a dreary, dreary world.

Can't we get rid of Nissa and Chandra? One is holding back better G planeswalkers and the other is objectively trash from a story standpoint, even amongst normies like Reddit and Facebook users.

>>52542203
>>52542206
>No it isn't.
Wait why? What the fuck??? I thought it was supposed to be 3 sets max.

>>52542239
When was the last time a french vanilla 1/1 for 1 was playable?

>>52542252
Idk but if they killed all the members of the gstewatch I would be a ok with that

Bring back koth as red
Garuk as green
Ajani as white and give us a new blue and black planswalkers
They can be minority women ffs just make them cute and not fucking obnoxious and you hit a home run

>>52542353
The fact that the Embalm cost is just W has got to be at least a little useful.

>>52542328
Jace isn't even that bad of a character when you read the story, it's just that wizard keep making all his quote in the flavor text snarky one liner.

>3 sets of tangoing with nicol bolas later
>the jacetice league ft. nissa has the brilliant idea of unleashing emrakul on bolas because emrakul is jaces friend now
>emrakul becomes a planeswalker and joins the jacetice league

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>>52542406
This is the powerlevel of standard playable 1 drops at the moment.

I really don't mind any of these PWs, but fuck if they have to be in every set we've had what? 10 fucking gideon betweens this and the last year?

>>52542205

Gideon is the only one of the Gatewatch members worth a damn story wise.

>>52542467

Story presence≠new cards.

Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is still the fourth Gideon card that's ever been printed compared to seven Jaces and counting.

>>52542406
I could see it played in white weenies with that new instant speed anthem. Maybe. Are there any more low mana white zombies? Something from innistrad maybe?

>>52542467
That's probably true
If instead of just reusing the 5 big ones they introduced new ones that were interesting it would probably be better

Like with khans we got a bunch of walkers we almost never see
It would be nice to take a break from Jace, Nissa, Lilianna, Gideon, and Chandra for a while

>>52537193

Playable in Vintage

Just add Library of Alexandria

>>52542517
Cryptbreaker and relentless dead are the best we got. There's probably design space in standard for WB zombies but I don't know how it will stand against the current, ridiculously OP meta.

>>52539028
Man, why are all the aftermath cards instants first and sorceries second? That makes it hella awkward to cast them both on the same turn, even though that seems like what the effects are designed around.

>>52542717
I might have said this earlier or in a different thread

The first half is an instant that you can cast from hand but the horizontal half is a sorcery that you can only cast when the card is in the graveyard.
The reason it is a sorcery is because wotc hates powerful things (like flashback) and instead love printing shitty versions of old mechanics that are actually good

So they've broken the template in three ways as far as I can see with this set
>whenever you cycle or discard a card
>aftermath cards
>jackal creature type
Any other fuckups I missed?

>>52541012
White gets to suspend spells.

Red gets to bounce spells and/or redirect them and/or copy them.

Black gets to sometimes take control of spells or counter with life penalties.

Green gets counter target counter spells.

>>52542124
Good Commons and Uncommons means there will be lots of them opened, meaning it will be cheaper to build decks, meaning less packs will be opened, meaning less profit.

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>>52542480
KILL OFF GIDEON

CLEARLY THREE INCHES WASN'T ENOUGH, GIVE HIM SIX

>>52542945

I think we're far closer to the other end of the spectrum where nobody opens packs because nobody plays Standard.

>>52542866

I can dig it.

>White tries to filibuster or raises a temporary barrier in the midst of a magic duel
>Red bounces around and throws off your aim with chaos magic and so on
>Black either engages in demonic fuckery to steal your spells out of your hand or goes the simpler route with SURPRISE, GOOD LUCK CASTING WITH MY BLOOD IN YOUR EYES AND MOUTH
>Green just yells at anyone trying to talk over them

>>52543015
Wishful thinking of the kind of neckbeards you see everyday on LGSes swearing at wizards whenever they can.

>>52543044

Just going off what I've been seeing
>New guy wants to get into magic
>Overwhelming amount of people suggest modern over standard
>If new players do try Standard they get absolutely crushed by the few regulars who just run the Tier 1 deck, and I never see them again

Standard attendance has really bottomed out at my LGS, modern is still going strong though.

>>52543015
Any evidence to that claim? I thought sales were fine, which is pretty much impossible unless people are buy lots of Standard legal boosters.

>>52543023
Unfortunately, it does nothing to actually make Wizards/casuals/retards enjoy playing against counterspells. It would just add a small number of largely unplayable counters to each color but leave the meta nothing but aggressively costed creatures swinging into each other as quickly as possible.

>>52543123

I'm saying that as someone that doesn't like playing against counterspells. I acknowledge they're there and serve a purpose to the game's health but there's no rule I need to like them in the process. I don't, and probably never will.

But I'd be a lot more willing to engage in fights on the stack with my friends that DO like counterspells if there were more ways to do that instead of the current binary of "also play counterspells" or "ignore the whole business and just smash through the stack to punch them in the face."

>Don't get to draft much, but finally get round to drafting EMN
>Open foil emmy in first pack
>Hey, that's pretty cool. I might try and make that splended reclaimation de-- BAN
>Open smugglers copter in prerelease
>Oh, this guy is awesome, might do some janky sorta -- DING DONG BANNU
>Whatever. At least I have my bant deck to play with in sta-- OH YOU BETTER BERIEVE THAT'S A BANNU
Can't wait to open something exciting in Amonkhet™!

>>52543182
>Amonkhet
If we don't print anything good, nothing is worth banning!
- Wizards

>>52543101
Last Friday at my LGS none of the regulars signed up for Standard and there was an 18 person modern FNM and a 20+ person modern tournament the Thursday night before, which happens every week.

The owner said only two people came in asking about standard and he had to turn them away

>>52543210

I dunno, that demon seems pretty neato if the cycling's any good and cycling, while boring as fuck, is also nearly impossible to fuck up.

>>52543101
I think part of the biggest reason for this is the lack of frontier.
>Wizards decide mtg needs a powerlevel shift at ORI, dialling back non-creature spells
>Nothing in standard really sticks to modern bar the occasional card like fatal push
>Nobody wants to put money into a rotating format where their cards are going to be completely worthless at the end of rotation
Like, they made this huge shift in power, then expect people to keep buying into expensive cards that become completely worthless post-rotation. Protip, wizards: It's not the length of rotation cycles that are driving people from standard.

>>52543123

Sales were down last year, attendance is way down just going off empirical evidence.

Standard Showdown was a promotion clearly designed to get players back in the store, general social media vibe towards MTG Standard has been negative for years now and it's taking its toll.

>Join any MTG community
>"Hey guys I'm new what should I buy into?"
>"Not Standard"

Every single time.

>>52541901
I see your point when it comes to stuff that's so broken it's played by half the decks in a format, but done properly it adds more depth and skill to the game.

>>52543245
Since frontier has been taking off locally I've been directing the newbies to that explaining it like steps on a ladder, standard is the floor and it sucks, frontier is the first step, modern is the second, legacy is the third, and EDH is the apex of magic: the gathering as a card game.

(pauper kamigawa block tiny leaders is the secret hidden level above that but I don't let them know, they'll discover it on their own soon enough.)

>>52543170
>"ignore the whole business and just smash through the stack to punch them in the face."
Any facet of the game sounds shitty when you word it like that (ie creature playing decks are all about ignoring the opponent and turning cards sideways until you win). Baiting counterspells is a legit element of the game.

Even if you gave every color counterspells, you'd still only have the options of playing your own counterspells or trying to play through them. It changes nothing about the underlying gameplay.

>>52543541
Frontier is dead, tho

>>52543541
Casual EDH is the best, but it's such a fragile thing, like all casual metas.

Frontier is going to suck just as bad as modern. Why the fuck did they have to reprint those fucking fetches?

>>52543541
Frontier has been dead several for several months now, where have you been.

>>52542866

Green already can kinda do this, specifically with stuff that gives your dudes hexproof/indestructible/shroud etc.

If anything the only way green should have specific literal counterspells are ones that counter a spell that targets a permanent they control.

>>52543608
>>52543632
Can something be dead before it's even been born?

>>52543541

>Frontier

MTG Finance, please fucking kill yourself. No one is buying.

>>52543647
In my head, I was thinking that green counter-counters wouldn't actually be counterspells, just Instants that could give other spells Shroud.

>>52543660
>>52543632
>>52543631
>>52543608
I said locally. there are 12-13 people showing up with their old standard decks + a few new additions and playing it. people are making up their own decks with ensoul artifact/tezzerets touch to hit people with ornithopters. etc etc.

just because it's not doing so hot in the rest of the mtg world doesn't mean it doesn't exist in some small isolated areas. and for the record, I don't play it. I'm busy on wednesday nights.

>>52537193
I've said it sarcastically many times, but I'm probably going to stop playing magic now.

This card had to be a fucking joke

>>52543684

Current colour design philosophy has it that green very rarely interacts with objects on the stack but interacts greatly with permanents in other zones. Don't get me wrong I would love to see more offbeat stuff like Guttural Response or Avoid Fate again. The only thing of recent for green that's any good on the same line is Heroic Intervention.

>>52543746
The draw is compulsory and the land return is may, someone fucked up.

>>52543746

The land return is a may ability, the draw is mandatory.

Honestly it's not that bad, you have a 5/5 indestructible flyer for 3 cmc. Granted the attack/blocking restriction clause is a downer but you could come up with creative measures like crewing stuff or fighting dudes.

>>52543647
They already have that fuckstick, its called hexproof.

>>52543684

I'd be happy if green got more cards like guttural response.

Something to shut down counters specifically.

>>52543918

>They already have that fuckstick, its called hexproof.

Try reading comprehension you fucking moron. I already said that in the fucking first line you fucking retard.

Hexproof interacts with YOUR permanents. What i'm talking about is cards that specifically interact on the STACK only when they target something you control. That way it is not limited to creatures.

>>52543869
In a format with a 2 drop 4/4 flyer, a 3 drop 5/5 indestructible flyer that requires you to durdle your hand to be useful is not playable

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>>52543998
Did you miss hte cat snake?

>>52544034
Hexproof can just be updated to apply to spells. It would work like lifelink.

>>52544095
Yay for snekcat

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TOUCHE WOTC

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>>52541177
So, something like these?

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>>52544130
TOUCHE

>>52544130
ENCHANTMENTS CANT HAVE A SUBTYPE, IT WOULD BE CONFUSING!??! MARO WTFFFFFFF HELP.

>split card rule change
literally for what purpose. was there an oppressive deck in any format that abused cheating out split cards

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>>52544104
We already have a standard on how uncounterable spells are worded.
And no, we shouldn't see enough cards in a single set that make stack interaction null so common to become a keyword. Outside legacy, control is already more than shitty enough.

>>52544104

Rules wise it cannot. Hexproof can only be given to a permanent or a player but not spells on the stack. Even if you tried to change it to affect spells there's some oddities with trying to modify spell properties on the stack with the way hexproof currently works. A hexproof creature on the stack still has hexproof but can still be countered or targetted by other spells that interact with the stack. GIving it hexproof again on the stack is meaningless and causes a rules headache and does not work as intended.

>>52544155
muh NWO

>>52544155

Probably just an ass-covering measure of "we have no intention of finding out if there was something horrible we missed with aftermath and cascade coexisting in a format" or something.

Veil (This spell or permanent cannot be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)

>>52544131
Might wanna have flash on the white one

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>>52544244
fuck my life into pieces. i originally had it as an instant that put a "pay [3] to play this spell" clause on a spell, but that was fucking stupid.

>>52543655
I mean, stillbirth.

I think I just fixed standard and modern guise:

Quocken 1U
Instant
The next sorcery card you cast this turn can be cast as though it had flash. (It can be cast any time you could cast an instant.)
Draw a card.
/////////
Counterspoll UU
Sorcery
Aftermath (Cast this spell only from your graveyard. Then exile it.)
Counter target spell.

>>52543023
Hey green can also shut you up by punching you in the throat.

>>52544284
Could also maybe make that red one cheaper if you change it to "If that spell's controller has taken damage equal to or above that spell's CMC.".

>>52544343
Here, I fixed standard

Card Name:
Pithing Needle 1
Artifact
As Pithing Needle enters the battlefield, name a card.
Activated abilities of sources with the chosen name can't be activated unless they're mana abilities.

>>52544284
Wrong wording on Encase activated ability.

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>>52544453
And here's the example i forgot to post

>>52544308
Cartouché.

>>52537134
>Give all the gods indestructible
>Make high synergy with -1/-1 counters
>???

>>52543541
Competitive EDH is the apex of magic. Casual EDH just makes me want to kill everybody else to escape the infinite arguments over what counts as casual.

>>52543869
>>52543746
Oh, then this pushes UTron into playable territory.

>>52544284
Encase could stand to lose a point or two off the CMC.

Enforce and Thunderous Echo could likewise stand to lose a point of mana cost.

>>52537193
Why are these gods so fucking shitty? Even the Theros gods weren't that great and they're better overall than these new ones.

I wonder what the attack/block restrictions will be for the other gods. Inb4 Green god has no attack restriction and is actually broken as fuck.

>>52544502

Don't worry friend. We'll lure the opponent into a trap by letting them waste those cards on our gods and then we play Ever After turning them into ZOMBIE GODS.

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Modern-playable in a torpor orb deck?

>>52544529

I mean arguably it's not a bad card for U Tron but unless control and combo decks start pushing up in Modern again then that deck is going to have a hard time beating the metagame.

>>52544284
I'm surprised nobody has commented on the horrible wording of Encase's triggered ability.

Flash
When ~ enters the battlefield, exile target spell for as long as ~ remains on the battlefield.
3:Destroy ~. Any player may activate this ability.

Enforce Emptiness: Do you want the discarding of your hand to be part of the cost of the spell, or part of the resolution?

Thunderous Echo:
Instant
Counter target spell if that spell's controller has taken damage this turn.

Otherwise it's a counter spell that doesn't target, which usually doesn't happen.

>>52544605
Why would anyone play a 4/4 for 2 that requires torpor orb or hushwing to work, when instead they could play a 4/5 for 1 (tasigur), a 6/7 3/4 to 6/7 for 2 (goyf), of a hooting mandrils

Ahahahahaha holy shit.

I just realised that with all these cards putting -1/-1 counters on your own dudes this can actually make playing Dubious Challenge a viable card.

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>>52544354
Makes sense.
>>52544453
I meant it to be any player, not just opponents, but the wording is still fixed. Thanks.
>>52544530
I sort of meant to overcost them as "effect that strongly bends the color pie," but eh, you're the boss.
>>52544623
Already fixed Encase's wording.
Good point on Emptiness
I feel the current wording works better with the adjusted effect of Thunderous Backlash.

>>52543541
>edh is the best meme
>shitty pauper kamigawa TL reddit meme
It checks out

>>52544605

2 cmc to gain 1 life when it attacks is not where you want to be at when it is most likely going to come down as a 1/1 if you don't sink it all into another creature.

>>52544680
Are you sure you fixed the wording on encase? Because you attached a card with the incorrect wording.

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>>52544740
MotherFUCKER
I need to learn how to read.

>>52537193
This isn't Korean.

>>52544680
>"effect that strongly bends the color pie,"
The entire point of this line of discussion was that the other colors needed stack interaction in their pie.

>>52544921
Look, I design mainly by NWO because I'm a cuck who spends all his time sucking Maro's chode. My brain gets stuck in that mode sometimes.

>>52544605
Curves great from Young Wolf and Doomed Traveller, that's for sure.

>>52541459
cryptic has three other options, one of which is draw a card

the problem with bounce is that it gives the opponent card advantage making it useless most games

>>52540305

This so much. A few weeks ago at FNM I was using Grixis Control against a guy's Izzet Burn and it was one of the most exciting matches I've ever played. Went down to the wire on turns in Game 3 where a Flashed in Torrential to replay a Disallow was what allowed me to win.

>>52543541
Legacy = EDH > Standard > Modern >>> Frontier

>>52544509
>competitive edh
dude tutors lmao

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>>52544984

Other bounce spells that see, or have seen play include Vapor Snag, Repeal, Cyclonic Rift, Echoing Truth and Hurkyl's Recall.

Pic related was never playable in constructed, but it was punishing in triple Theros draft.

Bounce is card disadvantage, but (usually) mana advantage, which means it's a tempo tool.

>>52544789
How about:

Encase in Glass 1WW
Flash
When Encase in Glass enters the battlefield, exile target spell. If Encase in Glass is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, return the exiled spell into play.
3: Exile Encase in Glass

Enough of a penalty cost to be the wrong color.

>>52544173
Who cares, hexproof is just a suped up shroud, making it matter on the stack wouldnt end the world. It gives green stack interaction.

>>52545258
You just made it functionally better. If you move the card to any zone other than the graveyard, the spell is permanently exiled. Also, you made it so the ability exiles the enchantment rather than destroying it, so now there aren't any ways for the opponents to interact with it other than disenchant. Finally, your wording directly puts a spell into play, which is nonsense.

>>52544173
This is hardly a headache. A while back players couldn't have hexproof, but they added a single rule to the hexproof section, and slightly altered another rule and it was fixed.

>>52544104
>let's make bogles tier 1

>>52545295
Wasn't meant to be a final wording, just general idea for the card. Intent was that the return part will be given back to the original caster of the spell. Don't know how you would phrase something like that desu

>>52545292
>>52545335

No you two don't understand. It's an evergreen ability. A permanent having hexproof on the stack does absolutely nothing in regards to the fact that it can still be targeted by spells

>Who cares, hexproof is just a suped up shroud, making it matter on the stack wouldnt end the world. It gives green stack interaction.

If a card that would be a permament when it enters play has hexproof on the stack and you give it hexproof on the stack you've created a redundancy that does not make it say it can't be targetted on the stack. By making it matter on the stack you would have to give a whole pile of other evergreen abilities matter on the stack like Protection from X etc.

>This is hardly a headache. A while back players couldn't have hexproof, but they added a single rule to the hexproof section, and slightly altered another rule and it was fixed.

Again that's because most Hexproof abilities granted to a player are tied to a permanent. That clause is easy to adjust rulings for. You just can't have hexproof tied to a spell on the stack to interact with objects on a stack. It's not that easy.

>>52537134
Shittiest set since BFZ confirmed.

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>>52537378
>dual taplands
>that cycle
>and have basic land types

Intriguing. Could that be good enough to use despite being slow?

>>52545510
I see your point. You're worried that making hexproof work for spells would result in previous cards gaining essentially uncounterability. You can stop this by making a spell exclusive hexproof.

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>>52545730
Oh yeah. Gonna have a huge impact on the meta.

>>52545761

Cycling is strong though.

>>52545761
It's going to be an auto include in jund and grixis controlley type decks. The only question is how many to include.

>>52540957
Just wait for le ebin chase mythic planeswalkers.

This set has it written all over it.

>>52545761
Yeah, Life From the Loam spiked 100% for no reason at all.

>>52545730
I'm super fucking hyped for the lands as I have a modern loam jund deck

>>52545882
Seriously, how many rares have actually been spoiled so far

I think it'd make sense if green was the only color without counterspells. Green doesn't like tricky bullshit, just straightforward beating face. Plus it already has hexproof and cards that make players unable to cast things on other players' turns.

wotc has finally learned at least some small lesson about spoilers

when you dump all the good shit at the beginning, everyone gets super hyped like the dumb pieces of shit they are and as the rest of the garbage shows up all the hype dies down and they cancel their preorders.

if you dump all the garbage quietly and then show everything flashy right before it hits shelves the good memeories are still fresh in their mind and they gotta get dem chase cards

>>52546018

Not really. They counterspells should only nulllify other counters, like the already mentioned guttural response.

>>52544131
>So, something like these?

Probably with less retardedly unusable casting costs.

Game design 101: Bad options are fake options. There is no difference whatsoever between "only blue has counterspells" and "only blue has counterspells good enough to actually use".

>>52546296
>>52544789
Read the entire thread next time, my dude. We already went over this shit.

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>>52544605
AH FUCK

>>52546362
What?

>>52545993
14 and 2 mythics

I really hope they're actually saving the best for last

>>52546387
they combo
>steal opponents creature
>play 4/4 for free
>give stolen creature -3/-3
>kill it
>get a 4/4 and a removal spell for 3 mana

>>52546387
>cast red expertise
>steal opponent's creature
>throw exemplar of strength in for free
>opponent gets his creature back with three -1/-1 counters on it, if it's alive
>meanwhile you fucked with an opponent's creature, and got a 4/4 into play for three mana

This will definitely work in Standard.

>>52546410
>>52546414
Kari Zev's Exemplar
1RR
When ~ enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature and then discard a card.
4/4

Not bad desu

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Damnit wizards, were is the qt Egyptian waifubait?

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>>52546472
patience brother, you are not alone. Our time will come.

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>>52546472
>Not liking jackal tits

>>52545743

Yeah the only way you can do that is to specifically say "This spell can't be countered" which still shows up from time to time.

>>52546461
>"I was made for this"
>"No one is born worthy"
>made/born divide
>"Heroes aren't born, they're made"
>dealing with the Gatewatch

wizards please stop forcing your shitty lore into the game

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>>52546513
I'm not a furry.

>>52537193
Now I'm just waiting for an enchantment along the lines of

>You have no maximum hand size
>Cards in your graveyard count as being in your hand (You may cast them for their mana cost as if they were in your hand)
>Whenever a card would go into your graveyard from anywhere exile it

>>52546545

They're not printing Yawgmoth's Will in Standard.

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>>52546545
>functional yawgdog's will reprint
>except it doesn't end after the turn is over
are you dumb or just spiteful

>>52546587
To be fair, Yawgmoth's Agenda never set the world on fire

>>52546594
>>52546587
Shhhhh If you don't put a name to the effect maybe it will slip by unnoticed.

>>52546595
the built in rule of law is pretty castrating you know

honestly, as shit as standard is it probably wouldn't do much to it.

But for every other format the earth would tremble, the sky would be torn asunder, and storm spells would rain down from the heaven's and we would be able to distinguish them as either a sign of god's judgment or of his abandonment.

>>52541770
We just need a new planeswalker rule. Something along the lines of "You can only have one planeswalker card of any once subtype in a deck." So you get one Jace and only one Jace card in a deck. If you want other planeswalkers like a Lilly go for it but you cant have two different Jaces.

Should fix the planeswalker problem. Just save one exile spell for when their likely only planeswalker drops and its gone for good.

>>52542239
If this was a 1/1 and instead of lifelink got an additional 1/1 for each embalmed creature you control it would be okay. As is its shit unless there is some 1 toughness beaters in the set.

>>52544095
This will likely be the best card in the set and that makes me sad.

>>52546785
It's not even good. There's no relevant counterspells in Standard and in every other format it dies to Lightning Bolt

>>52544789
I would make encase cost 5. Make the opponent pat what the caster put into it to get the spell back since they will be able to get that spell when its advantageous to them.

>>52546819
That's the point.

>>52540030
All the blue deck "interaction" I've seen has been the Blue player "allowing" us to cast things while masturbating on the table.

Not sure about you but never had a happy game against a bluefag.

>>52546362
>>52546410

That's actually not a bad idea, you're left with a 4/4 dude that doesn't get Shocked that even if it is killed with Push, Grasp or Dec in Stone you are still even on cards.

>>52540030
>I actually don't understand why people dislike blue decks. It forces interaction and thought. You literally have to interact with your opponent because half your cards are reactive whereas with green and white you just ignore your opponent entirely, play your fatties and hope you win before they do.
No it doesn't. It's
>I cast spell
>NO YOU DON'T
>well okay, I cast spell
>NO YOU DON'T
>Let me cast again
>NO YOU DON'T

It's the most annoying things ever while you have the blue player smug as shit thinking he's good for doing a bunch of 1 for 1s and attacking with Mishra's Factories

>>52545510
Yeah it is that easy, and a bunch of weak green and some blue cards get buffed. Fucking blue fags cant even take a compromise to a situation.

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>>52540030
>Be R/B Zombie player
>Scrapheap effect, exile neonate
>Oh man, this is such a tough call, I don't know if this is the right play or not.
>at least 30 more seconds of card flipping happens before I get disallowed
>I have nothing else either in my graveyard or on my field
>same applies to discarding 2 for haunted dead
There's nothing to think about and these people are just searching for anything to make it sound like they're going through complex thoughts when I have dick going on.

>>52547376
Even worse is you will have a creature out before their counter shit happens or a 1/1 that they wont bounce and you just plink them to death. If they drop a "wincon" which is likely their only real creature you just remove it with your colors removal and keep plinking as they keep trying to "control" you.

>>52546536
>legendary creature said it was made to be powerfyl
>normy pleb non legendary creature says nobody is made strong
Sounds like less of a lore scenario and more of a fox and the grapes situation.

>>52547439

But now you have Embalm my friend and blue players can only Disallow so many times.

So has there been a single good card revealed so far? All I have seen is standard/limited shit.

>>52547479
If they're playing me they'll find all copies and torrentials to flash them back. Guaranteed.
Also Embalm will likely change nothing to the deck given how tight it already is.

>>52547520

I think the only thing you'll try maybe is the 2 drop zombie that makes everyone discard so I can put a Haunted Dead or Amalgam in the yard. I too also play Zombies

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>>52547517

>>52547574
>"Island"
>Isn't even an island
It's shit.

>>52547607
>not understanding where the mana comes from
It's pretty blue

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>>52540030
To sum it up
>Spell?
>Flick flick flick
>flick flick flick
>reach for mana
>draw back hand
>flick flick flick
>reach again
>slowly tap them
>untap them
>reorganize lands
>thrice
>finally tap two lands
>untap
>flick flick flick
>tap two lands again
>Counter
I don't mind fighting against blue, but have some fucking commitment for christ's sake. You don't need to make every single possible play take like 2 minutes.

>>52547675
Blue mana comes from Islands because they are isolated - they give one space to clear their mind and think deeply about magic and shit.

That's a river in the middle of a fucking city. It's a complete flavor flop.

>>52547675

He's not wrong though. That's not an island.

>>52547708
That's not where blue mana comes from! Blue mana flows and snakes around the wind and in rivers, and deep endless open sky or bottomless oceans

>>52547771
Which is to say, that "island" has flowing rivers and then a falls. It's a place one would find blue mana

>>52546410
That's not combo. That's card synergy.
Combo is something that goes infinite or you can win with.

>>52546523
No, I mean literally making a new keyword ability:

"spell hexproof"
While this spell is on the stack, it cannot be the target of spells or abilities your opponent's control.

>>52547964
That sounds extremely convoluted

>>52547964
Just change hexproof to work on spells.

>>52547964
>>52548355
Fuck off with that. Just bring back Split-Second. It has the same ultimate effect of avoiding interaction among spells.

>>52546717
Oh,you know.
LIKE THE OLD FUCKING LEGEND RULE WHERE I KILLED JACE TMS WITH JACE BELEREN?

>>52548758
Yes please. Return to Kamigawa when?

>>52548764
Never ever
t. Mark "THe nose" Kikewater

>>52548803
After what he said about Morph, I don't trust him one bit.
Also, Tamiyo got a new card, and Kamigawa was mentioned in one of MaRo's posts related to Amonkhet.

It will happen eventually.

>>52542860
Invocations literally aren't tournament-playable by the current rules.

I think that's it.