Rogal Dorn

Worst Primarch. Prove me wrong.

Spoiler: you can't.

>>52535321
Fulgrim

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>>52535321

>>52535321
fulgrim exits though...

>>52535321
Nope,
Everything is lorgars fault
EVERYTHING

>>52535321
God Emperor Tier:
>Vulkan
>Lion

High Tier:
>Corax
>Russ
>Guilliman

Good but Overrated Tier:
>Dorn
>Sanguinius
>Konrad Curze

Meh Tier:
>Angron
>Perturabo

Literally Who Tier:
>Khan
>Ferrus
>Mortarion

Trash Tier:
>Horus
>Angron
>Fulgrim
>Lorgar

Did Everything Wrong Tier:
>Magnus

Alpharius Tier:
>Omegon

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Alphalarius is best primarch
Prove me wrong

>>52535711
But anon you posted a picture of Guilliman...

>>52535644
>Alpharius tier
Kek.

Switch Lion and Guilliman and we can agree.

>>52535644
primarchs really only come in 3 tiers. Good, Bad, and Pointless.

>>52536081
And if you think it's good, it's bad. And if you think it's bad, it's probably pointless

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>>52535644
>Alpharius Tier:
>>Omegon

>>52535711
I can't because he has almost no lore. Which I am disappointed about.

>>52537813
Oy vey.

>>52535644
>Trash Tier
>Horus
I wish I could deny that.
Sobs into his Luna Wolves pillow

>>52537813
>>52537834
They're even colored the same...

>>52535711
Died like a bitch.

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>>52537841
>liking Luna Wolves

>>52537935
t. Alpharius

>>52535644
Hey, Magnus was doing his best. He didn't expect to be betrayed by everybody.

>>52535711
He isnt the best, he is ALL the primarchs

>>52539135
>Emperor tells Magnus to not do *thing*
>Magnus does *thing*
>Magnus gets punished for it
>Magnus is the one betrayed.

>>52540616
For fucks sake let's not turn this thread into another magnus did errything wrong one and focus on the glorious stached primarch.

>>52540696
>Primarch thread
>not expecting Magnuskub.

The most interesting Primarchs to talk about are the ones who did the most controversial stuff. That's why everyone yaps on about Russ and the Big Red Weenie but no one cares at all about Dorn unless it's to bring up the Iron Cage.

One of the things a lot of people don't seem to get about the statement "Best/worst Primarch" is the defining word used, Primarch, sets a pretty clear focus on what qualities we should be judging them by.

The Primarchs were created for an explicit purpose. The Primarch that fulfills that purpose better than the rest is the best Primarch.

Not necessarily the best character, mind you. Questions like "which Primarch is the best fighter/strategist/character?" can have wildly different answers from "which Primarch is the best?"

Dorn might not be the best Primarch, but he is certainly high tier given how he performs in the role described as Primarch.

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>>52540159
>tfw Alfalfapharius was just a nom de guerre
>Primarchs trying to off one another without the Emperor knowing?
>Leman Rus' kinslaying alter-ego?
>Primarch co-conspiracy trying to save the Imperium from Girlyman's ego?

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>>52541013
>scaled armour
>green

>tfw Alpharius is actually VULKAN'S kinslaying alter-ego

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> Dorn thread

>>52540616
As with everything Emperor related, there wouldn't be a problem if he told the Primarchs what was going on.

He is intended to be a flawed human being whose potrayed as an unfaliable God in propaganda, but people irl keep falling for the propaganda.

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>>52541204

>>52541289
They're the same people who buy the Imperial bullshit that they're justified and warranted in doing all the nasty shit they do.

That the IoM are somehow the good guys, and not just as evil, just blind, and just as fucked up as any other faction.

>>52535222
>tfw to loyal to be intelligent

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>>52535222

>>52539135
>>52540616
>>52540696
Magnus was betrayed by everybody...Including himself........

No wait ESPECIALLY himself.

>>52541448
Someone should do a "trust no one, not even yourself" meme with magnus' face shopped in.

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>>52541475
Ask and you shall receive...

>>52535222
I read it in his voice

>>52541633
That made me laugh more than it should have.

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>>52541633

Not bad anon, not bad at all

>>52535644
Lion was shit

>>52541295
EVEN IIIII DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET INSIDE THIS ONE

>>52541873
>t. Lemon

>>52535644
You dare to trash Sanguineous, the one Primarch to die for his father and face a fate he knew was coming.

>>52541908
>Lemon
what?

>>52541998
>t. It is a mighty fruit...

>>52535644
>meh tier
>angron
>trash tier
>angron

>curze anywhere but trash tier

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The only reason Dorn gets bad rep is because unlike all the other primarchs with their quirks and individualistic attitudes, Dorn alone was exactly what Emperor wanted of his Primarchs - unwavering, utouchable and devoted generals, who weren't burdened with the origin crap too much, but rather took their duties as the first and formeost thing to care about.
You could argue that Dorn alone fulfilled all the conditions needed to receive the role of Terra's siege engineer and Praetorian since he was the perfect primarch - alone among his "brothers" that performed exactly as designed in Emperor's plans.
Guilliman was too ambitious, Sanguinius got martyred, Khan didn't care about Imperium as much, Lion totally missed his role and powers, Ferrus was a gearhead and Vulcan attracted too much unwanted attention. None of them were as devoted as Dorn, or as ready for the duties they had without emotional payload.

>>52542062
You forgetting Russ?

>>52542062
>Dorn alone was exactly what Emperor wanted of his Primarchs
Is that why he wasn't chosen for Warmaster? Or why he fell for Perty's autistic honeypot?

>>52542081
The Emperor didn't want a furry

>>52535321
but... lorgar exists

>>52542105
Obviously he did because he made Russ and trusted him far more than the other Primarchs

>>52541421
Iron Cage was really funny.

>>52542094
Horus was chosen as Warmaster because he was the most charismatic and had the most victories, not to mention he was the one with the most experience on fulfilling his duty as a Primarch due being the first one to be found.

Wait
If primarchs are good if they do there purpose
Alpharius is the one who's good at hiding information.
And legitmantly no one
Not even us, the ones who made the setting, know if he's even flippin dead.
Then alpharius is the best primarch.

>>52542094
He wasn't chosen for Warmaster because he was too much of a soldier - good at leading and winning, not good at balancing political factions and Primarch egos. Horus had a way with words the blunt and brutally honest Dorn never had.

Dorn didn't fall for Pert-ulant Manchild's Autismo Fortress. He knew exactly what it was, and he knew his Legion wouldn't make it out completely intact. It was meant as redemption for what he and the Fists saw as their own failings to protect the Emperor and to shatter/reforge them so they could become Chapters under the Codex and prevent infighting.

>>52542195
I think you meant only primarch.

>>52542195
>Not even us, the ones who made the setting, know if he's even flippin dead.
Except we do? Dorn killed him, and we smash-cut across the universe to Omegon feeling his Twin's soul die.

>>52542195
Alpharius is dead. Dorn beheaded him.

Side not Alpharius is a bitch, he got stabbed by a Lucifer Black in a sword fight. What other Primarch would that happen to? He was dumb to think he could fight Dorn and walk away

>>52542223
Wasn't the entirety of the Imperial Fists wiped out and replaced by "successors?

Are we positive it was Alpharius who died that day?

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>>52535222

>>52542223
Done killed him?
I though rowboat claimed to have killed him.
And we still don't know if he wasn't pulling a sparticus manouver.
Even the ultramarines, the dudes who follow their primarch's words as law, don't believe rowboat

>>52542256
That happened 10,000 years after the Heresy, and we also have the cut to Omegon to confirm it.

>>52542134
Trusted him to capture Magnus except he proceeded to shit all over Prospero and make the Thousand Suns go traitor

>>52542275
Dorn killed Alpharius, Omegon either got killed by Gulliman or became Janus. Fuck Janus being that Transexual Son psyker, that's gay

>>52542291
The Emperor said Russ was in the right and Magnus deserved to get rekt like he did

>>52542291
Well to be fair they were pretty much knee deep in shit, The Burning of Prospero just ended hitting the nail on the head.

>>52542316
Or omegons still leading the legion due to the whole Spartacus maneuver

>>52542202
>I was just pretending to be retarded, it was really just according to plan
Yeah ok

>>52542379
Hey there Russ, didn't see you come in.

>>52535644
>Lion
>God Emperor Tier
BATTLE BROTHER

>>52542588
YES?

>>52542094
>Warmaster
He was already the Praetorian. His job, and the job of his legion, was to defend the heart of the Imperium. That alone disqualifies him from the position of Warmaster, as that title requires him to go off and crusade away from Terra.

>>52543903
If Dorn was so ding dong great then, how come he couldn't just do both? Huh?

Checkmate, Alpharius.

>>52543903
Also wasn't Dorn and the Fists the Legion that fought beside the Emperor the most?

>>52544209
Indeed.

>>52542256

>Wasn't the entirety of the Imperial Fists wiped out and replaced by "successors?

Hardly mattered by the time of the War of the Beast, seeing as every TRUE successor from the Second Founding was rooted in the strongest and baddest motherfuckers to have survived the Iron Cage.

Besides, we've all seen what happens when some hotshot IF thinks his mentality is the real IF attitude and commits to dumbass headstrong decisions which compromise the chapter or even the Imperium COUGH LYSANDER COUGH.

>>52542316
Dorn don't kill Alpharius. He killed Alpharius but he didn't kill Alpharius. Alpharius is still alive as far as we know.

>>52542062
Dorn had two jobs:

1) Fortify the Imperial Palace so no invaders could get in.

The Traitors got in.

2) Protect the Emperor.

Horus killed the Emperor.

Worst Primarch without a doubt.

>>52545419

The Traitors almost got in, big difference. No fortification lasts forever, but his fortification bought enough time for the rest of the loyalists to make a difference and change the course of the war. Unfortunately, the Emperor didn't feel like sitting on His ass anymore.

>>52535222
Why does he look like he'd be on trial at Nuremburg?

>>52535711
He died to Rogal Dorn.

>>52537645

His lore is basically

>comes up with advanced plots with strategic depth and innovation
>conserves military strength at every opportunity to prepare for the next engagement
>hoards logistics like a hungry servant of Slaanesh
>not abnormal for plans to fall apart after the first few steps because life is random like that, leading to some godawful losses in manpower
>values plans and Legion interests absolutely and uncompromisingly over allies, leading to long term acrimony and eventually open hostility
>>last two characteristics are shared by the AL command echelon, often with disastrous results
>unsurprisingly lures Dorn into a trap with a masterful scheme
>unsurprisingly fucks up said masterful scheme after the opening act and gets himself killed by underestimating the resilience of the enemy and the random element of life - much like the fates of many other AL commanders

In contrast, the worst one could say about Dorn's sons is pride is overvalued at times and in some instances fatally compromises the mission.

>>52545685
Because he's Prussian/Inuit

>>52545701
Honestly, the cannon is so fucked that one could just choose to ignore something like that. Personally I think Alpharius wasn't killed and it was just an alpha legionare sent to fool them.

>>52545838

>2017
>still pretending Alpharius didn't die

Even Omegon has accepted it

>>52545802
I don't think it's pride. Dorn and the Fists were well known for being unconcerned with honor or pride. However, they were often myopic in what duty meant, and that lead them to hold on when a more lateral thinking individual would let go and try again.

>>52540949
By definition then, the Lion would probably have been top tier if not the best? The Primarchs were created to be generals and warlords to help the Emperor conquer the galaxy. And behind the Luna Wolves, the Dark Angels had the highest win count in doing that... so the Lion would be up there.

Others up near the top would be Dorn and Guilliman.

>>52545838
It's the canon that spawned the I Am Alpharius, Alpharius/Omegron nonsense that said Dorn killed him.

>>52542275
Ultras aren't sure Alpharius is dead, aye. Or Omegon. Fucking Alpha Legion.

>>52544209
Yes.

It made his fellow Primarchs extremely salty that they got all the honours.

>>52547147

Lion padded his score with NL. His second most notable action is causing his own homeworld to blow up.

>>52547208

I can imagine Dorn's quick conversations with the Primarchs.

>I should share the glory? I'm just doing my job, so maybe you should focus on doing yours.
>Learn how to rebuild the shit that your Legion breaks before you talk to me about building societies.
>I worked with the Solar Auxilia for this operation because between your Legion and the Auxilia, at least I can depend on the Auxilia.
>You're not going to survive in a REAL siege.

Lore on Inwit when? Why the fuck did they create an entire sub-society within the Imperium and then completely squander it?

>>52545419
>The Traitors got in.
no they didn't
that's the entire reason why horus lured the emperor onto the vengeful spirit

>Horus killed the Emperor.
except his legs ain't broke yet, nigga

Dorn wasn't exactly the best at anything beyond making shitty primarchs mad as fuck, but he got the job done. He just kind of broke once his boss stopped giving him direction.

I think that Roboute Guilliman guy is kind of cool, but that's just my opinion.

>>52547394
I agree, completely different person, but I submit that the Emperor is even cooler.

>>52547367

>He just kind of broke once his boss stopped giving him direction.

Incorrect. He wanted to continue the Scouring forever, whereas Guilliman recognized that this was the best they were gonna get and needed to keep the Imperium that remained. Dorn let his Legion decide their own fate quite literally, and as a result most of it was found wanting - while the rest was fit to live up to Guilliman's mandates as outlined in the Codex Astartes. If his Legion triumphed as they should have, its very likely that Dorn would have stuck with his own agenda - but by now even Dorn had to admit to Guilliman's wisdom and accept the new reality.

And so he became the Imperium's protector, as best as he could. He died, but he died knowing that it was no longer an era of Primarchs. It was an era of the chapters, where each Astartes is charged with the ultimate defense of humankind.

And that is why he went to his death headstrong. He accepted his fate as a warrior, the way every Astartes should to their last breath.

>>52545879
>Implying Omegon isn't actually Alpharius

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>>52547747
>everyone is Alpharius

>>52547177
>>52545879
I want it mostly because it would be interesting for the next primarch to get revived to be one that (((sided))) with Horus like Alpharius. Everyone is expecting Vulkan, Lemon grass, and Doornob to be the next few.

>>52548078
Except Alpharius, who is Omegon.

>>52548167
I want a warp rift to open on Terra moments before Khan and Doomrider burst out at ridiculous speeds, racing neck and neck across the planet.

>>52548194
10,000 years is (many times) long enough to get cloning tech. Take out a loan with Fabious Bile. Owe one to Tezeench. It's possible, quite so for chaos. My point is if you clone your dead twin, is that a third brother? Did they ever say what happened to the body? Do primarchs die normally, or ossify, or what? No, they don't vanish like Obi Won and Vulkan.

>>52548270
>Do primarchs die normally, or ossify, or what?

Fulgrim keeps Ferrus Manus's head lying around.

>>52535644
>Sanguinius
>lower than fucking corax
>same tier as Konrad Fucking Kurze

SURE

>>52542202
>Pert-ulant Manchild's Autismo Fortress.
Wha- What? There's already enough to keep track of here, don't go making up idiotic names in your native baby-talk.
You do, however, make a point in implying that Dorn did his own Dropsite Massacre legion-cleaning and killed off anyone who'd disagree and put the fear in anyone left.

>>52548270
There is usually a giant blast/storm of warp energy and wind and shit when a Primarch dies. Except Vulkan, because he isn't really dead.

>>52548305
Does it talk? Does it tell servants to do things? If you use it as a paperweight does it fill out the documents for you? Has anyone tried to steal it to sell for drugs? Has Fabious tried to steal it and sew it onto a body? Those chaos crab mecha with the giant robot hands would seem a fit for a guy called Ferrus Manus.
(misses when WH didn't take itself seriously.)

>>52535644
>Corax
>Not trash tier
Crappy list

>>52548360

It was a test. Remember that Dorn wanted to keep the Legions instead of breaking them down into Chapters. Dorn felt that both he and the Legion failed the Emperor on that fateful day. So the Legion was to be given a test: is it worthy, or isn't it?

Most of the Legion failed the test. What was left was not enough to constitute a Legion, even if Dorn wished to maintain it. The only sensible option left was to give the chapters independent command. They earned the right to exist and to prosecute their wars against the traitors however way they saw fit.

>>52548305
>>52548428
Fulgrim gave Ferrus' head to Horus, who had it flensed down to the skull and occasionally talked to it. Clones were created from the blood on Fulgrim's sword, but were imperfect.

learn2lore

>>52541633
Holy fuck.

>>52548471
>I must deliberately feed my own men to the grinder to prove we suck so I can rationalize breaking my Legion into smaller groups.

And people say Pert was the autistic one.

>>52545419
The Primarch who did what he was supposed to be doing. Not Dorn's fault everyone else is a total fuck up.

>>Hey, Russ. I built the fortress. Come help us defend it.
>>I WILL FIND HORUS AND SLAY HIM MYSELF

>>Hey Corax, I built the fortress. Come help us defend it.
>>NO, SONS OF THE RAVEN FIGHT BEST ALONE. WE WILL ATTACK THE WARMASTER'S FLEETS AND BE DESTROYED PIECEMEAL.

>>Where the hell are Guilliman and the Lion?

>>I wish Vulkan and Ferrus weren't dead.

Special props to Sanguinius and the Khan for actually showing up.

>>52549258
kind of wierd that the whitescars are the one to actually show up for the siege of terra, out of all the loyalists legions, defending a fortified position really doesn't fit there style...

>>52549509
More credit to the khan for fighting the difficult, necessary battle instead of letting arrogance play into the traitor legion's hands by running off to fight his own way.

>>52549509
The Khan new when things needed to be done. He was the loyalist most likely to go traitor and the fucker showed up in Terra's defense because he gave more shits about humanity itself than he did anything else. The dude disliked the Emperor, was friends with the traitors, and would have been forced into a position that goes against all his prior battle doctrine if he stayed to defend. He chose to do so anyways.

He was also a Kamen Rider.

>>52549595
*knew

Shit.

>>52549705
Meant for >>52549696

I need to fucking go to bed. Fuck.

>>52548471
wasn't ""senseless"" killing of his own men something he accused good ol' Perty of? Or was that Girlyboy?
What did he test within the Iron Cage, exactly? Their ability to get shot? How good Imperial Fist geneseed is for providing Perturabo the means to ascend to daemonhood?

>>52548710
That's what Fulgrim thinks.

>>52545419
Horus had two jobs
>continue the great crusade
He stopped the great crusade

And

Don't kill the emperor
Horus killed the emperor.

Truly the worst primarch

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>>52535698

>>52542094
Horus was chosen for War master, because he was the only one who all the others weren't trying to kill.

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>>52540616

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>>52535644
>>52536023
>>52536642
>>52541633
>>52550830

>>52535321
Prove yourself right first.

>>52549509
Yes,but getting there first fits their style.

>>52545802
I think what he fucked up on was thinking that he could actually persuade Dorn. His biggest issue is that he has to always take the over complicated path to prove a point.