Shadespire & Shadow Wars

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Also what do people think
About Shadespire trying to eat a bit of x-wings and MTG lunch with organised competitive play and easy assembly /
Semi pre Paints

Very excited for Shadespire if it's good GW will be getting my money.

As for Shadow Wars Armageddon, I wish they'd add Daemons/Kroot / Inquisition rules. I plan on playing Grey Knights and a Grot heavy Orc Gang

>>52531716
Well, since Shadow Wars sold out pretty much immediately, I guess it's a huge success.

Kinda want to see Assassins for imperial factions, like the Solitaire for Harlequins.

Starting with Necrons (At least, if my store got me a copy of the game/gets games going). Maybe I'd also start a Harlequin Troupe, the low model count could give me a chance to individualize them a lot. Or Maybe cultists and a CSM, as I still have the Dark Vengeance box around.

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>>52531738

Love the sound of a Grot Heavy Gang I think Orcs will be strong against smaller forces like Harlequins and Grey Knights.

I also plan on playing Grey Knights because low model count and lovely models haha. I'd also love to play Slaanesh Daemons so hopefully they will make rules for them at some point.

Here is my idea for a Grey Knights list. As Gunners will be so hard to get after initial recruitment I've taken 2 without Specialist Weapons so I can buy them later on. The list is really just about getting Bodies on the field.

>>52531742

Yeah I would be interested to see how many units they sold or if it was just a small release. Low model count is certainly a pull for many people and teams. Harlequins do seem cool. I can't see them not eventually adding to it as I'm hoping there will be an app for it eventually making rules easy to add and update.

>>52531716
Shadow Wars COULD be a big hit, but it needs support, and it won't get it.
When 'army size' maxes out at 5-to-15, it's not worth the time to playtest and develop, the company has to sell minis.
Or maybe they'll focus on terrain for a while, while releasing new kill teams, and only THEN will try 'expanding' towards Apocalypse sized games, but Apoc will ALWAYS be their endgame.

>>52531768
>brother cicero
you'dd better pronounce that kikero in your head

>>52531783
Yeah, I don't think there are any numbers released about their sells yet, but the game isn't even released yet. An App to organise your gang would be nice, they did that with other games too, IIRC.

>>52531803
It's 2nd Edition 40k rules/Necromunda rules, not much playtesting needed any more desu.
And now with Cadia down, and as Gathering Storm implied, a Warp Rift on Armageddon, I could see the game tie in with some bigger releases and 8th Edition 40k. And there's always terrain to be sold, so I guess it's gonna work out. And even if not, Rountree won't come to your house and smash your miniatures if they don't support the game anymore.

>>52531724

Shadespire doesn't look similar to Magic at all.

>>52531861
>not much playtesting needed any more desu.
You'd think GW could release some less disappointing teams, then.
Apparently, they just didn't bother, and if they won't it will go the way of Epic:Armageddon (and Necromunda, there are still people playing it, right?), with community-driven lists.
That's how all :Armageddon games end.

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>>52531803

I think that'll just focus on rules and terrain because they will always sell. They don't need to release any minis but people like myself will buy minis from a pre existing range that they'd normally not buy. So personally my guess is it will be successful. Low model count games are on the rise out of convience. But you are correct if they fail to support it with at least a stream of rules it will fail.

>>52531893
No but we're not talking about looks, but in the way X-wing isn't that similar to magic yet I know dozens of Magic players that stepped into it and never touched GW models, Shadespire seems to be tapping into that competitive fast playing itch that Magic players seek, I already know 3 Magic Players at my LGS plan on trying out Shadespire.

>>52531861
>It's 2nd Edition 40k rules/Necromunda rules, not much playtesting needed any more desu.
Nope it's a mix of KillTeam and Necromunda
>Rountree won't come to your house and smash your miniatures if they don't support the game anymore.
Your point?

>>52531927
>Shadespire seems to be tapping into that competitive fast playing itch that Magic players seek, I already know 3 Magic Players at my LGS plan on trying out Shadespire.
>t,shill

>>52531716
>So I want to see the hype and the hate surrounding these two new GW games
Nice marketing research GW

>>52532436
I can assure you I don't work for GW

>>52531716
The bottom line is this is a decent release. However, it is really just HOR Lite.

Both the Yak Tribe Community edition necro and the Hero system are a bit better than what has been already leaked.

The plus side though is that this will probably increase popularity of those games.

>>52532436
This is pretty funny, we know all know their marketing research is just looking at a picture of their emblem saying we are so great while massaging their nipples.

>>52531738
Grots are a special operatives choice, where you get a Runtherd + 1D6 grots.
Before I knew this I was planning a grot heavy list too..

>>52534048
Nooooooooo :(

>>52533622
Yeah sure

>>52531716
Shadow War will be quite a success, but would be more of a success if they had actually managed to have some stock. Everyone was on the hypetrain and wanted to buy the game, but GW did not create that many copies. When the game gets released and people start playing, the hypetrain will slow down and some potential customers will decide to not buy it.
It is also a huge miss to not sell a rulebook seperately from the boxed set.
Knowing GW, they will also not properly support the game. Maybe they'll release a FAQ in a year or so, but that's it.

Shadespire looks excellent, but I believe they ripped the concept from the Judgement game Kickstarter that just ran successfully. It's very likely a worse version of that game, but it will come out a year ahead of time. I plan on shitting on Shadespire locally to make sure it doesn't start up so I can play Judgement when it comes out.

I'm hype for Shadow War: Armageddon. The Raid scenario is really poorly balanced, but everything else in the game looks well thought out. If you are playing including Raid, Orks are the best faction. If you aren't including Raid, the faction balance doesn't look bad.

>>52534862
What's the problem with Raid? Seems to me that it wouldn't be too difficult to sneak it, or at least get one hell of an alpha strike off. Especially if you have something like a Transuranic Arquebus, you can down a couple guards and just hold position as it wears down the terrain. Remember, you pick deployment, and taking on three or four Orks at once with about five guys doesn't seem so bad.

Hi, guys.
Do you have rules of shadow wars?

Is the general consensus that harlequins are way too good? Their combination of rules sound really broken for their points.

>>52534992
here is some: http://imgur.com/a/WZoZy

>>52531724
DEMACIA

>>52535074
thanx, i guess, i just dont understand, why cant i find scanned rules not even in russian internets?

>>52534850
>Knowing GW, they will also not properly support the game.
IDK, GW has been going through a pretty big shift in style recently. They haven't supported all their minigames, but a lot of those were never intended for that.
Silver tower got a fair bit of support.

I will say in GWs defense predicting print runs to demand is not easy, especially with something with a fairly complex production value. By the time they knew how much interest their was, it was probably too late to create more in time for release.

>>52531898
>They don't need to release any minis but people like myself will buy minis from a pre existing range that they'd normally not buy
Same here. I mostly play CSM but this gives me a good excuse to buy say a ten man squad of almost any army and not feel like I'm wasting money because I didn't get a full army. With SWA, the ten man box IS your army for the most part.

>>52535073
I think it's too early to conclude that.
4++ is nice, but they are expensive don't have long range shooting. In the ccw being outnumbered is more important than being good.
For ccw wychs are as good for cheaper.

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Thoughts on my list /SWAG/?

Ranger Alpha Galvanic rifle Melta bombs 215

Ranger Galvanic rifle Photo-visor.130

Ranger Galvanic rifle Photo-visor.130

Specialist Radium pistol Photo-visor 125

Fresh-forged Galvanic rifle 100

Fresh-forged Galvanic rifle 100

Fresh-forged Galvanic rifle 100

Fresh-forged Galvanic rifle 100

Total: 1000

>>52535155
Because the game releases this Saturday and those with early copies like not being sued.

>>52531783

I spoke to customer services, and only the web allocation is gone, with no apparent plans to restock - but the scenery will be sold separately in the future.

Still boxes going to stores however, so you may have a chance to pick it up from Saturday

>>52535208
Ah cool, we'll see I guess. The no pinning, ignore terrain, ignore armour modifier shenanigans sound like they're the one army that ignores everything that makes the game unique is all.

Does anyone know if the rules support more than two people for a campaign!

Or how about more than two people in a match?

>>52535164
I sincerely hope you are right with that. You're right in that they have been going into a different direction ever since Rountree became CEO, but the rules clarifications FAQ they released for 40K took quite a lot of time.

It is probably not profitable enough, but I would love it if they regularly did a FAQ in White Dwarfs, or did a yearly rebalancing of certain popular minigames and release those either in a printed standalone booklet, online, or in a WD.

What would be a good starting list for Orks?
Going to get myself Snikrot and a squad each of Kommandos but I'm not averse to chopping them up to make them wysiwyg. Thanks in advance.

>>52535329

There is nothing capping the campaign to two players. Each team is a separate entity like Blood Bowl or Necromunda.

>>52535323
Not saying it's a good design, CW eldar a bad design too because they have basically no options.
But it's to early to call op.

>>52535435
Big shootas are OP, take it.
And some meat shields.

>>52535435
Big shootas seem really strong.
Shootas on the young'uns or whatever their name is seems pretty good.
Taking large numbers seems good.

>>52535538
>>52535483
Alright, cheers. I'll see what I can come up with.

So RE Shadow Wars, what have we learnt for Dos and Donts?

- If you fight a Solitare, group up and put the expendable guys at the front. Shoot as much as possible, then dogpile him as he closes. If you can't realistically win, leave ASAP. It may even cost him more despite technical victory.

- Guard when overequipped are basically shitty Skitarii, keep their special weapons cheap and numerous.

- Harlequins are bastards, focus fire and down one or two, treat as mini-Solitares.

- Armour won't save you from much, but given most things won't completely remove saves Red Dot Scopes are still a good pick.

Anything else?

Also, anyone know a good way to make some red-dot scopes for my Galvanic Rifles and Arquebus?

>>52536065

>Also, anyone know a good way to make some red-dot scopes for my Galvanic Rifles and Arquebus?

Same way you make a Lasgun Twin-Linked.

>>52532317
t. assblasted D*sney shill

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Praise scanon and his work of photography, but why does it always fall to me to rotate it properly?
>Hiding and Silent weapons.

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Space Marines Chapter skills.

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>The Raid pt.1

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>The Raid pt.2

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>Overwatch

Can I confirm that at the end of a mission, barring mission modifications, both sides get 1 Promethium and 100 creds?

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>Overwatch pt.2

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>>52537030
Loser gets 1 Prometheum, Winner gets 1d3.
Both side gets 100 cred to spend on either new recruits (with stuff) or equipment (For the rest of the team).

This can be increased to 200 by spending a single Prometheum. You can not spend more than 1 prometheum this way.

You can also get a few skills that increases the money gotten after each mission.
All money not spent between missions are lost.

>>52535187
This is true. I'm currently hunting up the old Gaunt's Ghosts minis on ebay so I can run a Guard team using them. I play Chaos and Blood Angels in 40k.

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>>52536065
>Also, anyone know a good way to make some red-dot scopes for my Galvanic Rifles and Arquebus?
Just use the scopes that come with tac marine kits.

Reason I think Shadow War might see bigger support from GW is that it's the perfect gateway game for their hobby. Teams are built up around squadboxes, and you can build a roster using what's in one box. This means it's more accessible for new players who might be getting started collecting an army for 40k, but haven't managed to assemble and paint all their models yet - Shadow War makes it easier for them to start playing sooner. Older gamers might start branching out into other armies after getting a feel for a new faction ("hmz these deldar are pretty fun to play..") which will work in GWs favour in the long run.

If the playerbase supports the game and buy it, the terrain, the ebook and so on, that raises the chances that GW gives it support.

Did someone grab the pics of the scenarios from previous threads and want to repost them? I missed them.

>>52537487
http://imgur.com/a/lm4Zi

>>52537087
They're still available in GWs webstore dude

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>>52537511

>>52537443
I really don't like the large scale battles personally. These small scale skirmishes are the only thing I'd be interested in. Plus it would let me try different armies out.

It has a much MUCH lower cost floor. I don't see any negatives in giving this game support.

I think it's really sad that the new "necromunda" is literally just a 40k skirmish using all the basic 40k races.

Nothing new or exciting. I guess the terrain is neat, but I find most of the people who are all hype are to young to have played necromunda in the first place.

>>52537743
Shit, I am excited as fuck for this and I miss Inquisitor. What does that say for you?

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Do we have the rules out there for the Imperial Guard, Space Marine and Ork special hires? Not the core gang but the ones in pic. If not do we want the rules?

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So.. the GW webstore says SW:A is "temporarily out of stock" rather than "sold out". Some people are speculating that this means they are doing a second print. Thoughts?

>>52537761
Inquisitor was unironically a broken piece of shit despite the cool models. Needing a DM for a skirmish game is pretty naff.
So that tells me you have shit-tier taste in terms of actual game systems.

>>52537743
The point, I think, though is that if this game sees enough support and GW gives it enough support themselves, it's possible that we'll get a Shadow Wars: Necromunda box later on.

That or fan made munda rules so old mundaplayers can use their old gangs.

The game is set in hives already. The rules are just a bit more open to be used in any hive on any planet.

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>>52537801

>>52537743
>>52537761
I think the most disappointing thing about SWA is that it just feels like an excuse to flog plastic kits. The various teams feel really arbitrary - why are the Eldar using Guardians and Dire Avengers, when their infiltration experts are Rangers and Striking Scorpions? Because neither have plastic kits, that's why.

>>52537836
No thanks. I'm use the Nercomunda Comunity Edition rules.

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>>52537839
Unlike you I actually played Inquisitor, so I speak from experience.

>>52537849
Pretty much.

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>>52537870
>Unlike you I actually played Inquisitor, so I speak from experience.

>>52534048
>No Grot Liberation Army

Why even live?

>>52537869
That's obviously up to you. I'm just saying that if the game is a huge success we might actually see official Necromunda rules for it down the line.

>>52537886
>literally seething.
I feel sorry for you.

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>>52537938
how hard are you projecting?

>>52537041
>>52537010

thanks for those.

>>52537849
The community will fix it.
It's not like we won't make the teams up, if GW won't. And they'll end up being more playtested and better balanced, as usual.
It would be nice to have them official, tho.

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>>52537800

>>52537986
>Says the guy accusing other people of autism.
Cute.

>>52538063
wat

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>>52538087
different guy

yeh u have autism

>>52538120
replied to wrong post. sorry.
some guy further up asked for ork specials.

>>52538149
>Still using tired old reaction images.
Literally seething.

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>>52537870
How the fuck do you know if he played it or not?
How the fuck would he miss it if he's never played it?
Why are you being such an autistic cunt?
>>52537870
>>52537938
>>52538087
>>52538172

>>52538154
okay

>>52538210
Calm down.

you both have autism, now get back to posting about SWA

>>52531724

This will be forgotten about in a few months.

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>ITT: Autist calls out another Autist for being autistic

To be fair if you thought inquisitor was good you probably do have autism, because that game was some broken bullshit.

Even the creators thought so.

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>>52538286

>Creators admitting they fucked up instead of getting super defensive and attacking the fanbase

Sounds like bullshit, senpai

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>>52538286
>still posting

>>52538210
dis

>>52538307
There's a reason they got shuffled off into their own corner.

Same thing happened to mordheim when they tried to add all the broken warbands.

How viable are tau looking? It seems like tau are going to struggle hard. Pathfinders are somhow worse at cc than firewarriors, and we seem to have lost the range advantage.

On the plus side, that will make it a challege, and give me an excuse to pick up a box. Been looking for a reason to get me some rail rifles.

Also tips on skitarrii? I am deff going to pick up a box of those too, love those models.

>>52537870
I still play Inq. I like it and wish it was still officially supported. No need to sperg out about it.

>>52538371
To be fair I'm not the one spamming reaction images and seething over people's miniature game preference.

>>52538404
To be fair, nobody seems like they're seething...
>over people's miniature game preference.

Ohhhhh, you mean like you are?

>>52538451
>Assuming you can detect the intended emotion behind written words.
Now that's autism my friend.

If you read my original post it's actually said in a tone of disappointment. You're just seething because someone insulted your waifu and you literally can't process another thought until you prove said person wrong.

Carry on the struggle.

>>52538484
you should look up what autism is.

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>>52531716
>Who won't get into it through sheer GW bitterness even though they'd love it.

GW shills actually believe this.

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>>52538484
Holy fucking shit this is fucking embarrassing.

>>52537078
thanks. Time to get playing in a few weeks then, even if I don't get the boxed game. All the missions are from Necromunda 2e and the skill tables have minimal changes.

Though I do want the sweet terrain for cheap.

>>52538508
>Can't refute the point.
btfo

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>>52538484

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>>52531898
>people like myself will buy minis from a pre existing range that they'd normally not buy
so, retards.

>>52538549
you know this convo your having , its with 3 different people. so can you shut the fuck up already

>>52538536
>>52538572
>Holy fucking shit this is fucking embarrassing.
>While posting anime and reaction images.
>In your 20s
Bruhs.

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>>52538484
every day must be a struggle for you

>>52538366
Both can skill up Guerrilla and Shooting, it's a good combo. Both do the sniper rifles+omnispex thing, but Skitarii have a huge range and to-hit advantage, and 3 snipers, while Pathfinders have 2 snipers and 3 heavy machine guns, and access to Stealth skills.
IMO, Pathfinders are too short-ranged, and slow, to have no melee, they'll always be on the back foot, while Skitarii will force their plays on the opponent.

>>52538262
this

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>>52538636
Get some new material all these low test images are at least four odd years old.

>>52538533
Well to be honest.. I've despised GW for many years. They used to be good back in the old citadel days and for a while after, but have been shit for the last few years. SW:A and the new CEO is the only reason I'm now cautiously optimistic, and is about to buy something (a box of guards) from them for the first time in decades.

My point is, I was bitter. I'm starting to get soft now though. Some are too hell bent on their principles however...

>>52535435
I'm trying to weigh up an Ork gang too - at the moment I have four Yoofs with Shootas, a Big Shoota, and around eight Boyz. But do I want even more dakka?

>>52536950
>Sons of Guilliman

So what do you think that means for the Ultras in the future?

>>52538663
Does that range difference matter much though?
>Thinking of the dense terrain of old Necromunda games

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>>52533622

>>52537796
I've seen the Ork ones. Just post them, Anon.

>>52535164
>Silver tower got a fair bit of support.
That game is dogshit.

>>52538702
I'd say you want more. One of the orks' "special ability" is that they have a 20 unit max, so I'd probably want to use that as much as possible (as many units as possible without gimping them). A lot of muzzles pointing at the enemy is pretty good. Eventually you'll hit something too.

>>52535187
>I'm wasting money
You are spending money on GW, that is the definition of waste

>>52538674
>Complains about old images
>Uses picture of Bashir from over a decade ago

>>52536950
>Angels of Redemption over Dark Angels

Is this just because they're more codex compliant or what?

>>52538675
Fuck you fair weather fuck. I stood by GW through the dark times, we don't need shit like you.

I think the choices are based on who was there for the third war for armageddon

>>52538729
Apparently those two successor chapters took part in the Armageddon war. This is the only reason they are there instead of Smurfs and Dark Angels.

>>52538847
Haha well more power to ya. My friends were like you. I just couldn't stand it though. It's a choice each of us has to make. Do I stay and allow them to piss on me, or do I stab them in the cock hole with an umbrella and go for a pint?

>>52538789
>Being this much of a literal humorless fag.
Jesus christ mang.
I'd be impressed if this wasn't austismchan.

>>52538847
Why would you support a company if you don't like them? By giving them money you would be actively helping to prolong the period where you don't like them.

>>52538854

Half the races weren't there during the third war for armageddon, you cunt beam.

>>52538783
>20
not 15?

daym, this seems a little unbalanced.

>recruit a shoota yoof with heavy armor each round. for no promethium
>pin everyone with sustained fire
>T4 4+ save.
>skill them up if the survive 3 matches.

i still dont know what the best shoota recruit is, but i need to find out and make sure i have a total of 10 yoofs.

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>>52538912

>>52538951
I guess you don't understand irony?

Don't skip English class my guy.

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>>52538965

>>52538939
20, yes. And if you read through the mission rules you'll see that in every scenario where the players get to field a limited amount of their team, orks always get more. So I'd try to use that to my advantage as much as possible, without gimping them too much.

>>52538986
Wouldn't he hurt his hand punching a dude in the helmet?

That seems like a silly overreaction.

>>52538965
It was meant as a joke. I dug out one of the oldest pics I could find in my folders. Never mind...

>>52532436
Yes, because 4chan, the board of eternal reeeeeeee-over-everything-and-anything is the best sample for research...
Same place that still insists AoS is dead in the water despite facts

>>52538965
>>52538951
both of you start another thread and sperg out there,

I wanna know about the god damned game here, not your perceived insight into each others mental problems.

why does either of you give a shit what the other dude thinks?
lets talk game here.

>>52539008
You comedic timing is TERRIBLE

At least time stamp the picture if you can't correlate the date by the pic itself.
That's why Bashir is so good.
He's iconic.

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>>52538965

>>52539019
It's one sperglord and like 4 sperglings, butr I agree. They need to fuck off and stop sperging out so hard.

>>52539043
>comedic timing
>on an imageboard
Your autism is palpable.

>>52539061
>I literally take everything literally because I'm a no fun grumpy pants.
I'm glad we established that.

>>52539019
Sure. I'll talk game. Unlike other people here I actually think the game seems fairly well balanced. A lot of people shit on guard but according to some people who have already played a couple of games they seem to get really good fairly quick.

>>52539087
Why do you have to say something to every person that mentions you? Sounds like Asperger's .

>>52538990
ok kool.

for now I'm trying to figure out what models i should have assembled and painted.
both for starting team and future recruitment.

a solid pool of yoofs, dunno if i want heavy armor on them or 'red dots'

thinking one or two big shootas.

ands some regular old boys.
probably wont bother much for upgrading them.
what do you think?
are sluggas worth it for example? or just choppa fine?

i assume PK and heavy armor on the nob is a must.

i got bits for a mek with mega blasta and i can easily convert a kool flashgit with all the nobs,lootas and warbike bits i got.
same with painboy if i can be arsed.

>>52538366
Largely what >>52538663 says, with a qualifier that Tau will probably lose a standoff with shooty teams because you'll be outranged as hell, but will horribly maul melee teams due to having the usual two sniper weapons, excellent short-range basic guns and three Big Shoota 'Ardboyz (drones) to back you up, so enjoy CSM tears. Just don't expect to slow them down much before or after the 9-18" range band, so make it count.

>>52538742

Judging by the practice games I had at the local GW on their "example" board, you'll have room to shoot if you're smart at setting up fire lanes and using the Omnispex to designate that turn's Galvanic Rape Victim. I had no trouble raining fire on my CSM friend all game even after we forgot the pinning rule, so don't worry.
Skitarii are also WAY better shots than Tau, with BS5 at ranges Tau can't even reach with BS3, plus the usual cover-fuckery.

For either team, dump skill points into Guerrilla because it's almost certainly the best skill and you can spread the skills over a few dudes to avoid leader snipes, and give the Specialists Shooting for Crack Shot if you find enemies staying around too long.
Make sure to leave slots for all your Drones and Specialists, don't want to have to desperately try to get your scrubs OOA and then roll a 1 because there's no way to make space, and you should probably start with one Arquebus + Omnispex or one Drone + Specialist + Markerlight.

>>52539087
>I'm a no fun grumpy pants.
where do you think you are?

>>52538675
I haven't bought in yet. But my resistance is crumbling too.

I nearly caved when they released Genestealer Cults. Now I'm even more tempted.

>>52538936
Yeah I was just talking about the Marines, and every other race could have been somewhat, it would just be purely classified. Fluff can always be expanded on. Just slow down..

>>52539094
>game seems fairly well balanced
i honestly have no idea. but I'm not that worried.

i'll only ever play with a few friends who want t have a good time and make a cool story happen. no weirdo sperg kids.

if its not balanced we'll house rule some stuff to even shit out.

to my limited knowlege guard can have to special weapon dudes while the rest can have 2, no?

what exactly are their weaknesses other than being less crazy than skitarii?
bad at CC?

>>52539250
>to special weapon
three, i mean three special weapon dudes.

>>52539006
you didnt play many team sports back in school did you?

the adrenaline is pumping and your blood is singing and you cant feel that at all. Even the coaches get there.

anyone got the rules for grenades?
I assume stikkbombs work just the same.

it kinda seems like the teams are set up to sell single boxes.
otherwise why cant ork's take burnas?

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>>52539250
They're not really less crazy than Skitarii, they just lean a lot more towards the specialized end of the spectrum than Skits. Their plasma is way better and cheaper, they can easily replace losses and have good support wargear. Use the regular dudes to pin for the special weapons, since lasguns aren't doing shit else with 10 guys. You'll have to have clear jobs for people to do as opposed to Skitarii's "Everyone is Harder Better Faster Stronger" ethos. but you can easily trade well with them. You'll take Campaign losses better with easy replacement, too. Still think you should get 15 army cap, though.

Yeah, Guard have 3 SpecWeps, standard is two but a few mix it up - Tau have 2 and then 3 Drones which are identical to Big Shoota Orks with Eavy Armour in all but WS, (and cost nearly as little as you, so RIP guard vs them), and a few others like GK, Nids also do different shit.

>>52539529

You can throw up to 3 times your strength in inches, grenades do something fancy with ammo rolls I think, maybe they autofail or something, otherwise they're regular weapons with occasional blasts. Stikkbomms are identical to frags - S3 AP- Large Blast.

>>52539752
>Large Blast.
what?
Seriously?

do grenades pin?

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>>52539877
>what?
>Seriously?
Grenades and grenade launchers are no joke in necromunda, man.

>>52539162
You should decide if you want to min-max or optimize imo.

Either you work on the bonuses orks got and make sure your team is the best at what they do.

Or.. you go half way, trying to compensate for their weaknesses.

Either way is fine imo. You should pick what makes you happy when playing. I'm the kind of gamer who doesn't mind losing occasionally as long as I'm having fun. Others can't stand losing. I don't know you so I can just advice you to think "Will I enjoy playing this team?".

Depending on how much this game plays like Necromunda I'd put down the following points:
- Terrain should be dense so any extreme range shooting is not very common.
- Ganging up (either in cc or shooting) is a good tactic, but requires a larger amount of models.
- Depending on if those you play with arrange the terrain in "streets" a sustained fire weapon can be good, but since you can't move and shoot it the same turn with heavy weapons (or is big shoota special w?) it might be tricky to set up a unit and overwatch.

In the case of orks I'd probably want a lot of lead in the air considering they don't have movement that's suitable for charging into melee that easily. I'd still try to swarm an enemy if the opportunity presents itself, but I wouldn't have that as a main tactic. So I'd try to field lots of guns. I'd probably try to utilize ork strength and field at least one big choppa. If that gets into melee it can get pretty nasty.

Do you have a list in the making?

>>52539877
Didn't see anything that said they didn't on my cursory rulebook flick, but remember that there's 20 dudes max, and that team won't care about losing three guys for a turn. You'll normally get what, two? Also Partial Hits are a thing for flamers, not sure re. blasts. Even if you haven't been shot to shit because someone noticed that that one guy had the Blight Grenades of doom.

Better than the 40k status of "this is literally interchangeable with the Assault Grenade Rule because noone will ever throw one".

>>52539924

What does the "unwieldy" rule do? Some kind of BS penalty?

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>>52538751

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>>52540031

>>52539250
Guard can have three specialists, yes.

Weakness I guess is their stat lines. That combined with them getting max 10 units to start with limits them somewhat. But from what I've heard, since the game is rather skill focused, once they skill up they become pretty good.

I'll be playing guard myself, so I'll see if they measure up eventually. And if they don't that's cool too. I just want to play desu.

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>>52540054

>>52539633
Indeed it is. It's a gateway game. GW want new players who aren't finished building their army yet to be able to start playing sooner, and old players to branch out into other armies that they wouldn't get into if they had to buy a full army to play (so as to get them hooked that way.. "Hm these orks are rather fun to play. I might actually get another box and some hero..").

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>>52540126

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>>52540156

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>>52540184

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>>52540215

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>>52540246

>>52540274
god pics this nice of the otk stuff too?
doing the emporahs work anon.

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>>52540332

>>52540246
Is engineseer AM spec op?

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>>52540368

>>52540370
Yes.

>>52540246
What's he for? He seems categorically worse than a Mekboy and you'll probably want the Commissar buffs more.

To say nothing of the Skitarii specialists. Rustie is very likely to lose combat with a regular Scout, and Infiltrator is a bit more of a beast but has nothing to stop one guy with a lasgun repeatedly pinning him, same as the Ogryn. Their enginseer is no different and is even less useful because Artificer Weapons. They could at least have some kind of BS/damage boosting ability.

>>52540370

Guard and Skitarii, yeah.

>>52531716
75% of the factions get basically no list building options, especially Necrons.

So I'm not holding out a whole lot of hope for SW:A.

>>52540403
Marvellous

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>>52540395

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>>52540422

>>52540419
I mean the options were limited to what their kits have. Which for Necrons, suck as you have (almost) no options.

List Question:
Is there a limit to Specialist to Troops?

Also, how does this look for 1000pt starting:
>Justicar with Falchions
>Grey Knight with Falchions & Photo-Visor
>Grey Knight with Falchions & Photo-Visor
>Grey Knight Gunner with Falchions & Psybolt Ammo

Might drop the visors and a Grey Knight if I can start with two Gunners (specialists)

>>52540511

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Faction_Support_Grey_Knights.pdf

>still no complete rules and lists (as far as I can see?)
>while we wait I'm making shitty doodles of what theme I should pick for my ork gang

currently split between taktikool operatorz and waaaghaboo samurai


would have gone with the operator theme, but I already made a bunch of models like that (too bad they're stuck somewhere far away)

>>52540591

Oh yes! And give them berets!

Now I want to play orks, just to make berets.

I like berets..

>>52540591
I'd go Waaghaboos. I've seen tactical Orks before. Never weeaboorks

>>52540511
>I mean the options were limited to what their kits have. Which for Necrons, suck as you have (almost) no options.

Yes, but the decision of which kits to allow didn't take that into account.

Why the fuck don't I have scarabs, for example? Why can't I take a Lord with access to a bunch of crazy wargear as my leader, since he's my faction's take on squad leaders?

Troops with no flexibility is inherent to the faction, but for whatever fucking reason they didn't allow access to the things we usually use to rectify that.

>>52540656
>weeaboorks
>borks

Swedish chef theme?

>>52531716
I'm not excited for Armageddon, there is 3 different skirmish games for 40k out there (inquisimunda, HoR KT and GW KT), the scenery is okay but nothing really outstanding and the minis are the same old shit.

I'll maybe give it a try with one of my inquisimunda teams when the rules are in pdf but that's it.

Shadespire is litteraly what: the game.

>>52540757
Fitting them all with little aprons and chef's hats is actually a tempting idea...

>>52540757

bork is a real ork empire in the fluff

>>52535436
Sorry, I don't know the way Blood Bowl or Necromunda handle having now than two. Would you or anyone mind explaining it?

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>>52537639
Not all of them are available still.

>>52540766
GW kill team isn't sold anymore outside of the remaining stock in stores. Inquismunda is a pain in the ass to get running because the rules aren't readily available, and HoR is unbalanced due to player favoritism/bias.

useful http://imgur.com/a/v8qF4

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>>52540419
>>52540511
Necron options.
>Recruits have 1 weapon. Gaus flayers.
>Leader AND Troops can choose between 2 weapons; Tesla and Blasters.
>Your specialist can choose between a whooping 1 weapon; The synaptic disintegrator.

Everyone can take the four options necrons have; Photo visors which are good. Scarabs which are ok/trash depending on enemies, The auto-partial cover which costs double the amount of photovisors and literally doesn't do anything against anyone else using photovisors and lastly the thing that lets you treat terrain as open.

There a quite a few weapons in their profile, but they are ALL on their whooping 2 special operatives. From the iconic warscythe to the only other melee/ranged options.

>Models only have 1 weapon option.
>Models have no CC weapons.
>Less special operatives than most other factions.
I mad.

>>52535329
a campaign with two people sounds boring.

>>52540450
>>52540422
thanks M80

painboy seems cool, not gonna bother with the runtherd.

got rules for flashgit and mek?

>>52540996
>GW kill team isn't sold anymore outside of the remaining stock in stores
The rules are available on their websore.
>Inquismunda is a pain in the ass to get running because the rules aren't readily available
They are available for free on the internet.
>and HoR is unbalanced due to player favoritism/bias.
Are you implying that any GW game is balanced ? HoR is way more balanced than GW KT.

>>52540889
Did not know. That's perfect.

>>52540996
There were more than the squad? Maybe I'm remembering stuff incorrectly. I thought it was just the one squad. Or was that the last chancers?

>>52541001
Hm. Telescopic sight has changed a bit.

>>52541044
It's even worse than you make it sound.

>Tesla is garbage, so the one and only weapon decision we get to make is already made for us
>Our one specialist gets a gun that's a strict downgrade of one of the basic weapons and then gets to - no wait, HAS TO - teleport 8" away from an enemy model (chosen before deployment, of course), where it promptly dies immediately, and even if it lives it doesn't do anything worthwhile
>our leader is strictly identical in stats and wargear options to our basic troop except costs more points
>we're the ONLY faction with only two special operatives

>>52541314
>>52541044
>mimimimimi

>>52540408
More combat-ready than the Mekboy. He's got power armour, the servo-harness, a power axe, frag and krak grenades.

>>52541314
Grey Knights only get one spec op

>>52541443
No, they get four.

>>52540031
>as many as could be mustered
>>>>no kill team
never not gonna be salty about this

What sort of objective-markers/icons do you need? About to build up some caches.

>>52541480
>as many as could be mustered
>meaning "one"
lul

Does anyone know where it says that IG can take 3 specialists? Building together my team and it is kind of relevant to my interests.

>>52541573

I think it's when you use 3 promethium if i read well.

>>52541573
In the rules. IG can have up to three specialists unlike the other teams that can have up to two normally.

>>52541648
>>52541573
Ok, to clarify, do you mean special weapon operatives as regular members of the team, or do you mean spec ops like commissar, ogryn and so on?

>>52541705
Special Weapons Operatives

I love the way they went with Specialists versus Special Operatives versus Special Weapon Operative. Well worded and utterly clear...

Spec ops is dangerous, you must pay for hire and if they die you pay again, or something like that.

>>52541788
Spec Ops are only around for one game so you have to pay to use them again no matter what.

>>52541487
Not sure if promethium caches need markers.

>>52541768
Guard can have up to three Special Weapons Operatives (70 points each), yes.

>>52541866
They do in the raid scenario.

>>52541487
some objectives need terrain odbjectives.
like hit and run can need a promethium tank that the attacker needs to damage

>>52540054
Oh wow. Raptors/Raven Guard force with this guy <3

>>52541945
>>52541956
I meant Hit and Run. Not Raid.

>>52542744
ignores cover, among other things

read >>52541001

>>52542744
i have no idea about the rules, but if you fail an ammo check one one type of ammo, you can still use the other.. or so I've been told.

Honestly am surprised at the lack of interest for Shadespire, personally I think it's the most exciting thing GW have done for a long time.

That said, they're historically terrible at balancing games and if they get it wrong in Shadespire it wont kick off to a good start. I remain hopeful.

>>52543491
we don't really know anything about shadespire except that it's almost like age of sigmar version of the skirmish mode of imperial assault

>>52543365
also shotgun's blastshot ignores cover it seems.

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>>52543738
But what it means is GW moving towards prepaints, GW moving towards a Friday Night magic style of competitive weekly easy buy in gaming, GW releasing products in just general TOY stores.

It's actually a HUGE movement on GWs part and no matter how it does, personally I think it's the most interesting release they've done in years.

>>52544132
nothing about this says prepaints. where the dicks are people getting "prepaints" from?

>>52544184
''moving towards prepaints''

Full coloured plastic is moving towards prepaints, where the dicks to people like you learn English?

>>52544184
I said moving towards prepaints, because colored plastic is moving towards prepaints, and yes I know GW have done coloured plastic before but this is different.

>>52544314
colored plastics are a different thing to prepaints. they're not gearing up for prepaints. colord plastics are just a minor modification of their current production method, prepaints would require adding an entire new production line or method on top of what they have. they're not gonna spend money for that.

>>52544329
how is this different?

>>52544365
When will you understand the different between saying something IS and saying something is moving towards? It's boring having you just twist words into a knew meaning so you can disagree with them.

Nobody is saying prepainted GW models in the next year, in your stocking for Christmas! will you just stop getting so fixated, it's embarrassing.

All i'm saying and many other people are saying is that GW are clearly making many changes to their production and right now as it stands a move into coloured plastics is more of a move towards prepaints than just basic grey models that need gluing on sprues.

>>52544374
Because it's all about context, an idea which has clearly eluded you consistently as you fail to put anything i've said into it.

It's different because GW as a company is different, their leadership is different, the competitive fast paced game on a board they're coming with is different, they're the best quality coloured models they've ever done. Everything about it is different.

Honestly you've killed this thread for me with your obsession on arguing about prepaints which was the smallest part of a much larger and interesting topic but there is always somebody sat behind their computer seeking online conflict at every turn to make up for whatever it is they feel hard done by in real life.

>>52544413
Not the guy you're arguing with but I hardly think colored plastic is "moving towards prepaints" and I think what
>>52544365
is driving at is that its a very minor thing to change the color of your plastic. I don't think the plastic color has any bearing on future paintedness. IMO what the colored plastic is more of an indicator of is the idea of selling more stuff as stand alone board games. Look at blood bowl. Two colors so you can follow it without having to participate in the hobby part. Its easier to market as a single purchase.

>>52544547
Agreed, and that is something I personally see as moving towards prepaints, if something like Shadespire and Bloodbowl outsell 40k/AOS proportionately then in the next 5 to 10 years I can see GW doing prepaints. I'm not saying GW are gonna just shift loads of coloured plastic and then change their entire production process in a year and invest huge amounts of money to sell prepaints. But to use your words a movement towards '' the idea of selling more stuff as stand alone board games'' is a movement towards prepaints. Which is what i originally was intending, just didn't think i'd have to spell it out.

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>>52544413
>a move into coloured plastics is more of a move towards prepaints
this just in;

GW: Moving towards pre-painted since 1989

>>52544476

They aren't going to move to prepaints. The overheads on that are way too high. They did colored plastic for Blood Bowl too, nobody is going to want them to go prepainted there.

There is a REALLY big fucking gap between coloured plastic and prepainted. Especially for a company that doesn't just outsource that shit to a chinese sweatshop full of 8 year olds with amazing tiny hands if you're FFG, or the kids rejected from the T-Shirt factories for losing too many fingers if you're Wizkids.

>>52544413
GW is getting better is a meme I have been hearing for 10 years now.

Its not. It is shit and getting shittier by the day.

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Is this too much for other opponents?
I like the idea of Pulse Pistols over Carbines to give them an operator-esque feel.

>>52544631
I always though magic was so successful because you can fit the game in your pocket and play just about anywhere. Ignoring that games themselves are different and what not as much as I love blood bowl I need to basically carry around two boxes of stuff to play it. Itll then take upwards of 3 hours to set up, play, and then put away the stuff.
If on the other hand I throw my deck in my pocket I can play for a half hour or get in a few games. I dont need to find a 4 foot table to play on either. X wing has a similar issue but I think works a bit better than a wargame. The ships can either be thrown back in their boxes or into a single storage case and you can play on any surface if you dont care about that sort of thing.

Another big reason these games are doing well is because they have organized play and more importantly support. After buying into blood bowl and seeing the fan support for that Im not holding my breath.

>>52544679
:P Like I said, they've done it before but I think its different now. It's cool if you don't, though I guess technically yeah GW have been moving towards pre-painted since 1989.

>>52544687

Agreed the gap is big, I think GW will one day do it, just my opinion so it hardly matters, all this is really getting away from the fact that Shadespire is a movement in a new direction. Seemed you can say GW and prepaints without all the GW experts and twisted pants neckbeards coming out the walls to tell you they're angry and you're wrong.

>>52544717
GW has gotten better. /endof

>>52544737
Because of Tau being quite weak in CC and very dense terrain maps and objective will require people running into the middle I don't think it's ''too much'' for opponents, that said it's a strong idea, certainly just getting as many bodies as possible on the table is a good strategy, like it was in a lot of Kill Team games.

>>52544838
True, certainly many problems in terms of convenience, something like magic will have the upperhand but with between 3-10 dudes, though i've only seen games with 6 dudes on a team max and if you don't paint them, the board and models and dice could easily be places into a backpack which is easy and most magic players use backpacks not pockets if we're honest. Bloodbowl takes longer to set up and go than Shadespire no doubt as Adepticon games seemed very quick and easy to set up from what i've seen.

>>52544866
>they've done it before but I think its different now
they've been doing this in board game releases for their entire existence as a company

Them doing coloured plastics for a board game release is nothing out of the ordinary, nor does it really indicate any sort of change in paradigm. It's business as usual.

>>52544866

GW only got better since Rowntree took over. I don't think you properly realise how HARD Kirby was trying to run the company into the ground. Just read his last letter to the stockholders, that is a man who is GLEEFULLY chortling amidst the burning ruins.

To this day, we don't know what Kirby's problem was. Either he found out Jervis was fucking his wife, or he was just one of those people who want to watch the world burn.
Or hell, maybe a bit of both.

>>52544943
If you can't see that Shadespire is very different to their other board games, then the conversation is pointless.

>>52544960
Yep it has gotten better

>>52544960
I think he was just a moron. The first line of his letter was him saying things were fine.

All the steps he took were short term growth steps that would damage sales long run.

That said, they are still pretty shit. Lots of unbalanced crap, shitty fluff, horrible understanding of why people enjoyed their stuff in the first place.

>>52545055

Well it's probably the same problem as Mass Effect 3. All the people who made the earlier stuff what it was have all left for better jobs with decent pay, in warmer climates and in a company that doesn't treat them as a neccessary evil.

...well, maybe not that last one for the guys who went to Blizzard, but you get the general idea.

Of all the things from 2000AD comics for them to steal and make their own, their company haemorraging talent to america for 20 years due to pisspoor management by stockholders who haven't got a clue what the company stands for probably shouldn't have been one of them.

How is my list? planning on running my team in 2 squads, one field squad moving up the centre and one fire support squad providing long range firepower
>Field Squad

Pathfinder Shas'ui: 170
Pulse Carbine

Pathfinder Trooper: 90
Pulse Carbine

Pathfinder Trooper: 90
Pulse Carbine

Pathfinder Trooper: 90
Pulse Carbine

Grav Inhibitor/Pulse Accelerator drone

>Fire Support Squad:
Pathfinder Specialist: 180
Rail RIfle

Pathfinder Specialist: 180
Rail Rifle

Pathfinder Cadet: 75
Markerlight

Pathfinder Cadet: 75
Markerlight

Which drone is better for the field squad
Grav or Pulse drone?
Alternatively, what else could I spend those 50 points on, is the recon drone a must take due to the 2d3 shots it can have?

>>52535294
Why take a specialist if you're just gonna give them a pistol?

>>52536950
>sons of girlyman
Black legion step aside. Ultramarines are are taking over soon.

It's kind of odd. They're releasing the box but not enough troops to really play. I guess it's one way to get people to pay more.

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>>52548981

>>52544866
The coloured plastic is just so people can play from the box. Like in Risk. And like >>52544679 said they've been doing this for ages. As a matter of fact I think all their board games that use teams use coloured plastic

>Dude, come play this cool game with me! You can play as super tough bald marines, the zerg, space elves, Rambos, Terminator mummies!
>Oh yeah? Sounds cool. Tell me some more!
>Well...you buy these little plastic dudes
>Nice! They probably aren't that expensive then. How much are they?
>Well, anywhere from like $30 to $50 for 5 to 10 guys...and you're gonna need a lot of those guys and some vehicles too if you want to have fun! Probably costs you around $300 for a decent entry!
>Oh...wow. I guess that isn't that bad right? I spend more on computer parts than that! These plastic minis must look fucking beautiful then! Probably incredible paint jobs
>They're fairly detailed but you gotta assemble and paint them yourself
>...
>Yeah...
>Well, the game must be fun then!
>Eh, the games rules probably peaked around 15 years ago. Each new edition, while solving some problems from the last, has introduced a whole new set of problems, added needless complexity, and pushed more and more expensive $80 to $120 vehicles.
>Oh...I'll pass dude. Sorry.

And this is why X-wing is eating 40k's lunch, and why the game has stagnated for over a decade now despite board games being more popular than probably ever.

People want to play 40k because it is fun to push around little dudes, roll dice, and hang out with your friends. The combination of clusterfuck rules, horrible balance problems, needless complexity which doesn't really add any real tactical depth, enormous barriers to entry, standard point sizes that take the skirmish out of skirmish, and a whole host of other problems turn the vast majority of people away who would otherwise be predisposed towards wargaming or warhammer.

>>52549718
Well Newcromunda fixes the huge price barrier to some extent, but painting and converting miniatures is the biggest lure for a lot of people. Whilst pre painted minis wouldn't stop people from doing this, it would slowly diminish the modelling supplies GW produces, as well as reducing the additional bits included in each set.

It would be a shame to see that part of the hobby die, just because some people couldn't be bothered to do it.

>>52549983
>it would slowly diminish the modelling supplies GW produces
And literally nothing value was lost

>>52549718

X-Wing is eating GW's lunch because it's a Star Wars game that doesn't suck that ALONE would cause it to make gangbusters.
It then advocates purchasing EVERYTHING for that one upgrade card you need, and everything has a premium on it, but since it's got Star Wars on it, it'll sell anyway, even shit from SW:Galaxies, and critically...

REALLY critically:

You will see this product sold in shops other than one specific shop that's been a creche for parents to drop their 12 year old kids off in for the last 30 years.

>>52549718
>A conversation that never happened

>>52550334
X-wing is sold in toy stores as well. I really don't think shadespire will be above something like, say, Blood Rage or Zombiecide.

>>52548981
What do you mean by that? Did you want to play large sized necromunda games?

>>52549718

If this is whining GW should do prepaints, you might aswell be complaining about world hunger, etc since GW will never sell prepaints, the best you'll get is colored plastic.

>>52549718
>>52550334
>>52551140
>tfw Armada

It exists! It's better than X-Wing!

>>52549983
>painting and converting miniatures is the biggest lure for a lot of people. Whilst pre painted minis wouldn't stop people from doing this, it would slowly diminish the modelling supplies GW produces, as well as reducing the additional bits included in each set.

It's also the biggest turnoff for just as many, if not more, people.

They could offer unpainted versions as well, after all, at a lower price.

The additional bits per set is a money making scheme. Better to sell one big box that's half stuff you don't want, than two smaller boxes consisting of one you want and one you don't. That's the reason every box is two different units these days. You're paying for 1.5 units worth of plastic, but only get enough legs/arms/torsoes to build 1 unit.

Maybe painted models would cost too much, I don't know. FFG does it, but maybe 40k's models would cost more, and start to drift towards FFG prices (Armada is $30-50 per ship, wherein a fleet is 3-6 ships, and owning one of *everything* for one faction is around $300; but for GW that might translate into $30-50 per model). But it would be amazing for all parties in theory.

Anyone knows what urlieable does with a weapon ? it exploads on ammo roll of 2 or what ?

>>52549718
Or maybe we shouldn't be trying to introduce people to a hobby that resolves painting/building?

It's like pitching fishing to someone who doesn't like to sit outside for hours on end.
>Fishing should be changed, I have friends who don't like sitting outside, which is why this other thing is more popular.

Different shades and shit dude. My gaming group at this point only consists of people who like painting and modeling. We don't try to recruit people that don't like those elements since they are better playing something else.

On the topic of shadespire - it will be awesome and will take GW to new hights - they pumped so much money into this it cannot fail.

It basicly is something like xwing meets mtg. You have a map - bunch of dudes and a deck - deck is build based on dudes but you have much freedom in how it is acctualy constructed. You have NO dice - no luck element - and card use is amazing - bascily each card can be used in 3 ways - 1 for its ability 2 for its symbols and 3 for beeing a reasource to fuel up other cards ... There is so much thinking and meta magic and x wing will cry theirself to death

>>52551339
>Or maybe we shouldn't be trying to introduce people to a hobby that resolves painting/building?
>It's like pitching fishing to someone who doesn't like to sit outside for hours on end.

That's a bad metaphor.

Tabletop wargaming combines two completely, wholly unrelated hobbies into one. Some people solely enjoy one and force themselves through, or ignore entirely, the other.

Fishing and being outdoors go hand in hand. Painting and playing a wargame don't, but 40k combines the two. That doesn't mean there necessarily can't or shouldn't be an option for just one or the other. Other wargames offer prepainted models.

You're basically arguing:
>Hey, let's go fish at Will's Fishing Place
>Okay, but I hate being outside. I wish Will's offered indoor fishing.
>Don't try to change Will's. If you hate being outdoors, then fishing just isn't for you. By which I mean, how about we go to Fred's Indoor/Outdoor Fishing Getaway instead?

>>52551405
Granted, the metaphor was poorly chosen.

But I'm just saying that we shouldn't change the unique aspect of Warhammer to make it more appealing to other people. Isn't that what all the /pol/acks always blame WotC for? Changing MTG and D&D to be more inclusive for women? I think selling prepainted miniatures (for the core wargame) is a way bigger betrayal of the core principles of Warhammer than just including some black people/girls...

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>>52538484

>>52551450
>But I'm just saying that we shouldn't change the unique aspect of Warhammer to make it more appealing to other people.

That's exactly my point! It's not a unique aspect, and it doesn't have to change. Exclusively prepainted models doesn't eliminate the option of painting (go look at FFG repaints, for example). Even if it did, unpainted and unassembled models could still be offered.

It's like snapfit models. They're less customizable, but they're cheaper and easier, and get new people into the hobby. Fresh blood is the heart of any social pastime.

The 40k market can be divided three ways. Purists, who would never buy prepainted models. Nonpainters, who would never buy anything but prepainted models if given the choice. And some group inbetween, who would paint some models but not all; for example buying prepainted Orks while painting their Space Marines, or prepainted Termagants while painting their

>Isn't that what all the /pol/acks always blame WotC for? Changing MTG and D&D to be more inclusive for women?

Was this actually a serious argument I can't tell anymore

>>52551567
>or prepainted Termagants while painting their

Hit enter before typing "Hive Tyrant" but you get the idea

>>52551581
>>52551567
But it does cost an enormous amount of money and resources. And I don't think that's the right investment. Changing your product to appeal to people who don't like it doesn't sound like a good idea. You make it better for the people who already like it.

>Was this actually a serious argument I can't tell anymore
I'm talking about making changes to make your product appeal to more people outside of the default demographic which is considered as a cardinal sin by some people on /tg/. Imo going prepainted is in my opinion a way worse example of this and yet people don't seem to have the same problem with it.

>>52551621
>But it does cost an enormous amount of money and resources. And I don't think that's the right investment. Changing your product to appeal to people who don't like it doesn't sound like a good idea. You make it better for the people who already like it.

You keeping saying change. It's not change! It's an additional offering. Prepainted models existing don't stop you from painting. I've said that in three posts know and you keep repeating the same thing back.

We're not talking about getting rid of fishing to appeal to people who don't like fishing. We're talking about opening an indoor fishing booth next to the outdoor one for people who don't like the outdoors.

I don't know if offering prepainted models would make good business sense. GW makes such incompetent decisions at times that it's impossible to extrapolate from the fact that they don't offer it.

But the theory is that the investment would bring in a dramatically wider market, giving you more money to invest back into the product. You could increase your player base by several times. That's that many more armies, models, and rules getting support, because you have the revenue to warrant it. That many more FLGS earning a profit and staying open. That many more people to play with.

>>52551678
Except that opening that door is a very expensive endeavour and those expenses will have to come from somewhere. And this is of course speculation, this means less miniatures, games and other stuff. GW can only spend their budget for producing products once after all.

And once you're making decisions about making product A instead of product B(which was the traditional product) it does become a change of some sort.

>>52531716
I think Shadow War is heavily hampered by GW stupidly deciding to limit unit options to a single Troop choice. The Orks and the Imperial Guard get dozens of weapon choices for their Kill Teams while other races that are more specialized only get two or three.

Why can't I have regular FCW with Pulse Rifles or Pulse Blasters in my Tau squad? Why can't I have Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, or Storm Guardians in my Eldar team? Limiting kill team options to a single troops box is fucking retarded.

Especially since most Tau players would want half their squad with pistols and there's like one per sprue.

>>52531927
>Magic players stepped into X-wing.
No wonder the tournament scene went to shit.

>>52551678
>You keeping saying change. It's not change! It's an additional offering. Prepainted models existing don't stop you from painting.
Yeah, I'm sure Rackham deluded themselves with that line of thinking too.

well, this is a clusterfuck of a thread.

>>52551755
it was supposed to be a simple and small game, not a full fledge christmas special where you have all the character in there.

Also no resin, so chance of seeing aspect warrior is 0.

>Especially since most Tau players would want half their squad with pistols and there's like one per sprue.

Yeah, 16" no save gun over 30" -2 sv gun, that cose the same as the rifle. What kind of crack are you smoking when you build your Tau list? Are you planning to build a melee Tau list?

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>>52551755
The special ops somewhat solves this idea of 'blandness'. Personally I think it should always be the most basic rules, one thing that made me struggle to want to play Kill Team is that people could bring bikes, or bigger models or even a Sentinel. I dread to think of say an IG heavy weapons team. The problems with the Tau do exist in terms of sprues, I wouldn't be surprised if they at some point add the option of having say one Striking Scorpion/ Storm Guardians. My guess would soon as there stops being a sharp line the flavour of the game changes and I really really like the flavour, like A bunch of Pathfinders fighting a bunch of basic elder fits the lore and flavour more than A weird mix of Pathfinders and FW fighting a bizzare mix of Eldar where there is no unit idenity. Not to mention it would really give off min/maxing vibes. SW:A is currently giving off a narrative driven game, where you care about your bog standard IG with his lasgun rather than your specialist troop wrecking the face off some random orc with a shoota. Obviously GKs CSM and Tyranids will have smaller forces to balance out how powerful they will be, and if Kill Team was anything to go by then more men means more dice and ore dice means more wins.

Pic related, as it'd be a cool set of models to use for a IG team.

>>52551905
You're right, sadly.
>>52551770
You're also right, sadly.

I can't even fathom a necromunda-style game where the customization of your dudes is limited by the available plastic box sets. The ruleset just won't work.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/05/shadow-war-armageddon-rules-support/

>Well designed and balanced GW game
I will believe it when I see it. Until then I will stick with Malifaux.