/osrg/ OSR General - Edition Edition

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In this thread:

We post non OSR-related articles that are nevertheless quite interesting and, potentially, extremely useful. And if people don't like them... ok. http://the-toast.net/2016/02/09/reasons-i-would-not-have-been-burned-as-a-witch/

Reasons I Would Not Have Been Burned As A Witch In The Early Modern Era No Matter What I Would Like To Believe About Myself And Would Have In Fact Been Among The Witch-Burners

Mallory Ortberg

11. Because, let’s be honest, while I am totally into Stevie Nicks and candles and The Craft and whatever now of days, it is enormously safe for me to do so, and I prioritize my physical safety and comfort over absolutely everything, and if there was even a chance that someday I could face social or legal repercussions for my vague, shallow interest in “witch shit,” I would throw Stevie Nicks into a god damn river this time yesterday.

10. Because as much as I would like to think of myself as a persecuted outsider I am fact a Joiner through and through who craves nothing so much as the approval of a group. Any group. If there’s a group, I will defer to its moral code. Oh, there’s multiple people of you? I bet you have a way better plan for living than I do. Let’s do your thing. I have the seamless soul of a conformist.

9. There is not a single principle I would not betray in order to preserve my miserable, wretched, cowardly skin, if shit ever really came down to it. Not one.

8. Yes, even that principle. The one you’re thinking of. I’d chuck it in a river with cheer and a right good will.

7. Because I would have thrown a rock at that lady in The Lottery. You kidding me? Tessie Hutchinson? Threw a rock right at her face, then gone home for supper.

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>>52530348
6. I love blaming other people for my problems.

5. Because I’m no better or smarter than a seventeenth-century peasant just because someone explained to me how electricity and outer space work. If I’d had the same information as your average Bavarian circa 1605, you can bet your absolute britches that I’d be in the tavern jabbering about spirits of evil portent come the first bad harvest or weird-looking moon, looking for someone to blame.

4. I love the cleansing purity of self-righteous anger and feeling like I’m a part of something bigger than me.

3. I still kind of believe in magic, and I’m not convinced one of these days I won’t be able to move something using the power of my mind, so it would not take a lot to talk me into believing devil-consorters walk among us and must be killed.

2. I honestly quit smoking because my dental hygienist told me, “You have great teeth, and it would be a shame if you ruined such perfect teeth from smoking,” which tells me that I am A) incredibly suggestible and B) driven entirely by empty praise and the promise of Official Male Approval.

1. I would have named names, too. And I’d have been especially good at intuiting what names my interrogators wanted to hear (they would not have to torture or even threaten to torture me) – sharp-tongued gossips and independent-minded widows and all kinds of people who get described as “unruly” in modern academic essays. Throw them under the god damn Witch Bus. Does it disappoint you to hear this? I never asked you to have faith in me, Goody Watson.

>>52530348
>non OSR-related articles that are nevertheless quite interesting and, potentially, extremely useful

If they're interesting and useful, how are they not OSR?

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>>52530357
Well, some of them are going to be pretty darn tangential. Some of them might be more straightforward.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle

>About 3200 years ago, two armies clashed at a river crossing near the Baltic Sea. The confrontation can’t be found in any history books—the written word didn’t become common in these parts for another 2000 years—but this was no skirmish between local clans. Thousands of warriors came together in a brutal struggle, perhaps fought on a single day, using weapons crafted from wood, flint, and bronze, a metal that was then the height of military technology.

>The number suggests the scale of the battle. “We have 130 people, minimum, and five horses. And we’ve only opened 450 square meters. That’s 10% of the find layer, at most, maybe just 3% or 4%,” says Detlef Jantzen, chief archaeologist at MVDHP. “If we excavated the whole area, we might have 750 people. That’s incredible for the Bronze Age.” In what they admit are back-of-the-envelope estimates, he and Terberger argue that if one in five of the battle’s participants was killed and left on the battlefield, that could mean almost 4000 warriors took part in the fighting.

>>52530401
Frankly, they're still better than the usual shitposting we get.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholomance

>As I am on the subject of thunderstorms, I may as well here mention the Scholomance, or school supposed to exist somewhere in the heart of the mountains, and where all the secrets of nature, the language of animals, and all imaginable magic spells and charms are taught by the devil in person. Only ten scholars are admitted at a time, and when the course of learning has expired and nine of them are released to return to their homes, the tenth scholar is detained by the devil as payment, and mounted upon an zmeju (dragon) he becomes henceforward the devil's aide-de-camp, and assists him in 'making the weather,' that is, in preparing thunderbolts. A small lake, immeasurably deep, lying high up among the mountains south of Hermanstadt [sic], is supposed to be the cauldron where is brewed the thunder, and in fair weather the dragon sleeps beneath the waters.

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http://www.frathwiki.com/Dr._Zahir%27s_Ethnographical_Questionnaire

VI. Questions of Government

(a) Who decides whether someone has broken a law? How?
(b) What kinds of punishments are meted out? By whom? Why?
(c) How are new laws created or old ones changed?
(d) Is there some form of clemency or pardon? What is involved?
(e) Who has the right to give orders, and why?
(f) What titles do various officials have?
(g) How are the rules different for officials as opposed to the common person?
(h) How do government officials dress?
(i) Is the law written down? Who interprets it?
(j) Once accused, what recourse does someone have?
(k) Is torture allowed? What kinds?
(l) How are people executed?
(m) Who cannot rise to positions of leadership?
(n) Is bribery allowed? Under what circumstances?
(o) What makes someone a bad ruler in this society? What can be done about it?
(p) What are the most common or dangerous forms of criminal?

>>52530433
>Skerples samefagging this hard.

>>52530287
>Stat Conan
Lv. 11 Thief (9HD, 57hp)

17 Str, 11 Int, 12 Wis
14 Dex, 18 Con, 16 Cha

>>52530458

How is this OSR related?

Not even trying to shitpost or troll, but wouldn't questions like that be more suited towards a worldbuilding general?

^
It is not.
It would.

>>52530287
>Stat Conan
Human Thief level 10, Fighting-Man 3
Str 18 (95), Int 12, Wis 10, Dex 14, Con 17, Cha 14
Great Sword - Sword of Krom +1

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>>52530481
Never said I wasn't.

>>52530491
Possibly, but a lot of the questions I've seen in OSR threads recently - "What makes a good OSR game?" "How do I build an OSR blog?" "How to I get the feel of an OSR system without dealing with X issue?" aren't, apparently, being answered by conventional OSR blogs.

So I figure I'd plonk down some nonsense, see if anyone finds it useful. And if not, ah well, it's not like we're running out of space.

So we've got an article encouraging you to evaluate your mental space and decisions regarding history. We've got an article about bronze age warfare that also messes with convention. We've got an article about Satan's Hogwarts. And an article which is a general questionare for societies, but also just a source of darn good questions. Put those in a d100 table, roll them, and ask your players (or yourself) one per session until you've built an OSR world. Alternatively, ask yourself "what answers to these questions feel most OSR-like? Are there answers that are not acceptable?"

Planning on running World of the Lost soon. Never ran a LotFP game before but the party seems keen to try it out and all. Any tips or tricks?

Do you prefer to give your elves actual infravision or just darkvision?

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>>52530753
As PCs? Neither. Something weirder, if possible. Maybe ferrovision (sense magnetic fields) or an innate sense of beauty.

As NPCs? Total vision, even in zero light. If an elf is after you, darkness won't be your shield.

Anybody have a good character sheet for first edition AD&D?

>>52530481
>>52530540
>thief
>described and demonstrated as immensely tough... with d4 hd
>commonly wears heavy armor
>often leads armies to war
>takes on enemy throngs single-handedly

If Conan, the single mightiest warrior in the setting, is primarily a THIEF, then what the fuck are actual fighters there for?

>>52530865
>described and demonstrated as immensely tough
As the guy who posted the 57hp Conan, I'd like to remind you that Lolth only has 66hp.

>>52530907
Then my point stands all the more. What worth does the fighter class have? You can clearly be nearly as tough as gods, and acknowledged as such, even without d8 hit points.

Lots of magic items are class restricted. Fighters get the best ones.

>>52530907
This. In OSR games, really anything over 50 can be considered a lot. Fuck, just getting out of the early levels alive is a damn miracle!

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Imma just leave this here. For posterity.

>>52530777
What's OSR's obsession with weird, anyway? Literally every OSR setting I've seen has been this bizarre gonzo scifi-fantasy mash-up with aliens and rayguns and really nonsensical elves and dwarves and goblins.

>>52531142
Have you ever read any pulp fiction?
That's what pre-Tolkien fantasy looked like.

>>52531159
So? Why does OSR have to always go with that?

Tolkien had a lot of really OSR shit to it as well anyway. The Hobbit was pretty old-school when you got down to it. The dwarves were weak faggots and couldn't fight for shit and they tricked their way through everything.

>>52531000

fighting men had full use of high strength/dex, and better attack rolls.

>>52531334
Clearly not in whatever system Conan's now statted on.

>>52531344

what do you mean?

>>52530481
and
>>52530540

are od&d 0e profiles. I posted the single book edition ITT.

>>52531361
Well, what more would Conan get out of those high strength and constitution scores if he were a fighter rather than a thief?

And if fighters had better attack rolls than thieves, then why isn't Conan a fighter? I can't much imagine him being even better in a fight than he already is.

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Because
it's
fun

Speaking of which

>Modern Classless OSR Healing
Because I'm playing a more modern-fantasy version of OSR without classes, I wanted first aid to be a little more interesting then just use a spell (since there aren't spells), or heal X amount of health.

So instead, I had an idea for a random 'complication' table to accompany any first aid done. I don't know what a first aid roll should do here (maybe let you use a d8 for healing instead of a d6? Go without one item?) but we'll have to figure that out.

Anyway, I basically wanted to use a system with multiple first aid items that would be useful to carry around if you're a healer/medic type character, but each could also have a secondary use. These items would be;
>Bandages - Can be used to makeshift a bag, rope, etc.
>Stimulants - Grant +1 to hit, damage, and initiative for a combat
>Painkillers - Reduce psychic stress by 1d4, but roll vs stress (if roll under stress, pass out)
>Ointment - Can be put on the floor or a door handle like grease/oilslick.

Whenever you heal, you heal X amount of health and roll a 1d6 Complication.
>Painful wound, need painkillers and stimulants. Else cannot do anything but walk and cry in pain for a turn. No stealth (crying from pain)
>Blood loss, need bandages and stimulants. Without both you're weak and move at slowest speed for 1d6 turns.
>Shell-Shock. Need stimulants, else -2 to attack rolls and always surprised for 1d6 turns.
>Broken bone; need bandages and something straight and hard to act as a splint, else cannot use that limb until fixed.
>Grievous Wound; Need bandages and ointment, else you take 1d4 damage next turn.
>Severe Bruising; Need ointment and painkillers or else take double damage next time you are hit.

Anyway, this is the basis of the system. Any feedback? What should a first aid do, if any? Maybe ignore one first aid item needed?I fucked up the last post, hence deletion.

>>52531373

as far as I can tell from book 1 and supplement 1, only fighting men get bonuses for strength, so 17 str would give Conan +2 to hit and damage if he were a fighting man, and 18 (95) would give him +3 to hit and +5 damage.

>>52531142
Pushback against stuff like harn and kalamar and hell, forgotten realms, where there may be cool stuff but it's buried under reams of mediocre detail.

I mean, didn't the third-party 3e ravenloft have detailed demographics and trade details, or some shit like that?

i intentionally bought the harnmanor supplement and intend to use it

>>52531683
Pushbacks have a tendency of going too far to the other direction, though.

I mean all this gonzo weirdness is pretty superior to shit like Forgotten Realms, but I personally would still tone it down a notch.

Sometimes familiar is good, especially as a starting point. Hide the weird shit for a while and let the party stumble on it instead of shoving it in their faces.

>>52531718
Yeah, some of the OSR did get up its own arse with the gonzo stupidity, and they couldn't all pull it off as well as Joesky or Rients.

I just put weird shit on my conventional outdoor survival map. :V

I prefer the uaual Tolkienian stuff over gonzo, just taking a bit more effort to remind players how even low-level spells and weak magic items are actually pretty awesome.

A simple +1 sword is pretty boring. But when regular swords require maintenance, rust and break easily, even a low-level magical blade seems pretty neat by comparison, for it does none of that and can even cut through plate (with a good roll).

>>52531857
>cut through plate

whoa, easy there, Lord Vader. That's not how you defeat plate with a sword. You either half sword and try to drive it into gaps, or strike with the pommel (which hits like a hammer). To this end, having a "super +5 razor sharp sword of incredible +5 sharpness" is counter-productive as hell. Shame most fantasy authors, and a good deal of players/DMs have no idea how swords work.

A magic weapon that can cleave through plate armor falls into "omg, we're all doomed!" category.

>>52531969
Yeah, but if a regular sword is stopped by a plate armor, yet a +1 sword with the same roll could go through it, wouldn't it break the plate a bit as well?

Then even if you survive, you need to fix your plate armor. It's got a deep cut now.

>>52531988

that's not how it works.

Let's ignore for a moment the fact, that od&d combat system is bonkers.

You just DON'T try to cut a man in plate armor with a sword.

Ever.

here's an example of what you might do (though it pussles me why the knight is not using regular techniques, that would obviously work against an unarmored opponent):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi757-7XD94

How might a magic sword help with that?
It might not flex as much (though Clements was using a type XIII blade iirc, not a type XVa or XVII, that are more rigid), and instead of glancing off, it might strike true and get that gap.

Or it might be a fraction faster and land a solid pommel hit on the head.

that +1 is not just "a sharper sword".

>>52532099
>that +1 is not just "a sharper sword".

It's that too, though - how else could it deal more damage?

>>52531857
>>52531969
>>52531988
>>52532099
>>52532129

This is why you fags who fluff your games to be medieval hodge-podge will full Renaissance plate are dumbasses.

There are SO MANY historical armors you can use and plenty of them have opportunity for a real sharp/good sword to be able to cut through them without breaking physics over it. Scalemail, leather, cloth, types of chain, you could easily fluff a sword breaking or cutting through bits of this armor by sheer good quality alone without katanas cutting through platemail nonsense.

>>52532181
mail is way cooler than plate desu

Thieves attack twice/round OR backstab (deal a damage die per level, as a fireball)
I'm running black box, where they get one-handed weapons only

Thief fixed?

>>52532356
>fixing thief by making him better at fighting

I admit thieves in old editions tend to be underpowered, but turning them all into suave acrobatic swashbucklers was one of the worst things 3e did.

The backstab improvement is all right, but fuck multiple attacks.

I'm dying to know how other DMs prepare for their next up coming sessions? Do you all really write out your notes by hand.

>>52532387
I've got a campaign notepad on my computer that I take notes on.

>>52532129

by striking more accurately?

A sharper blade can cut with less effort, which is great when you're doing snap cuts from the wrist, but that's not all there is to it.

Armor, even a gambeson, is REALLY good at stopping attacks. Fighting a man in armor boils down to striking where the armor isn't, or using a weapon that was designed specifically to deal with armored opponents (flanged mace, pole axe, bec de corbin, etc.)

A weapon that is more lively in the hand, more responsive will be able to both strike faster (and more accurately) or get through defenses, etc.

>>52532129
>how else could it deal more damage
I always interpreted the plusses from magic gear as luck. When wielding a magic sword, your blind swing at an opponent happens to catch them at a point where the strap for their armour is weak, snapping it. It wasn't a physical property of the sword or something YOU did, you just got lucky.
Same goes for magic armour; enemies attacking you just happen to miss their chance to get past your defenses, tend to trip a little more often.
You don't fight better with magic gear, and certainly the magic gear isn't physically remarkable. But you can *tell* that you ought to be losing these fights, but through blind luck you aren't.

Same goes for cursed gear with minuses on them. Wield a -3 sword and suddenly your blows are glancing off buckles and getting stopped by the bible in your victim's pocket. You ought to be winning, but you're not.

>>52532375
It's that or bumping it to d6 HD... I'd rather keep it a high risk-high reward character than a tame skill monkey.
More in tune with how I see thieves, I guess.

>>52532387
I have a cute A5 notebook, one dungeon per spread; maps go in the left page and notes/stats on the right.
I never go digital unless I'm planning to release a pdf, and that usually happens after I've tested it, anyway.

>>52532442
>It's that or bumping it to d6 HD... I'd rather keep it a high risk-high reward character than a tame skill monkey.

I tend to take the DCC route of bumping the dagger and short sword damage when used in backstabs. A dagger deals 1d10 instead of 1d4, and short sword 1d8 instead of 1d6. Then whatever backstab bonuses you use on top of that.

>>52532181

think again. Even cloth armor (gambeson) is really effective at what it does.


What many people straight up IGNORE, however, is that even in settings where plate armor is available, and not prohibitively expensive, it's just not something you wear when you go adventuring, or heat exhaustion will drop you before you even run into any enemies.

>>52532387
Every floor of a dungeon goes on one a4 page, using a shitload of shorthand
Any important NPCs or anything are on another a4 page.
There's a notebook with everything that I scrawl my ideas in, but hopefully I won't have to use it. I usually end up having to double check a few times, though.

>>52532457
>Even cloth armor (gambeson) is really effective at what it does.

Sure, but I'd see a magic sword cut through it without shattering my suspension of disbelief.

>>52532457
>think again. Even cloth armor (gambeson) is really effective at what it does.

Did you even read my post?

I LOVE non-plate armor. I love cloth armor, and I know that it works pretty well. However the post was not about armor being objectively worse, it was about your players/DM being able to mentally accept a magic sword cutting through that armor. It's much easier to imagine a sword cutting through cloth armor then pure metal plates, even if in reality they were both pretty effective.

>>52532488
Magic swords are magic because they're more accurate and so they don't cut through armour, they cut through joints or the face or something.

Anyone here played/playing Holmes?

a. How complex is it, compared with B/X?
b. How does it feel, compared with B/X?
c. Is it a good replacement for playing a no-nonsense AD&D?
d. Anything plain broken that needs house-patching before diving in?

>>52532499
Why are you so obtuse about this? Why can't you acept that the magic sword might also hold a really good edge and maybe cut through your "muh impenetrable leather armor"?

I don't think it's ever stated in any book to be either way. Could be one magic sword is really accurate, another sharper, a third one lucky like >>52532430 interpreted it. Some variety just makes the magic weapons all the more unique and cool.

>>52532488

cloth? sure. Heavier armor? not so much. Which is why I said there's more to swords than just a sharp edge.

Compare a 10th century type X sword (using albion for reference: https://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-viking-stamford.htm ), with a late medieval type XV arming sword: https://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-lancaster-xv.htm

The arming sword in question will have a more rigid blade (flad diamond instead of a fullered blade), and a more acute point, better for thrusting.

A magic version might be a few ounces lighter, on account of being thinner, or more narrow, but equally strong.

Swords are typically hardened to around 50 hrc, to withstand the shock of combat, but a magic sword could have a 57 hrc edge (because magic) and cut better, despite having less mass (and also handle better).

Hell, you could forget about all the "sharp shenannigans", and just have an enchantment that messes with the sword's balance, moving it closer to the hilt, or further away, and that plays a HUGE part in how the sword handles.

>>52532593
>A magic version might be a few ounces lighter, on account of being thinner, or more narrow, but equally strong.

I ask you, why could a magic sword not be sharper instead? Why is the very notion so inconceivable? It's magic.

So if leather gambeson is so fucking amazing, then why'd people ever bother with plate?

>>52532648
Because you look operator as fuck in it.

>>52532593
Holy fuck you're boring. The sword is magic, why can't it be so sharp it can go through lesser steel? "Being a few onces lighter" isn't magic, it's just good design or metallurgy.

Earlier it was also broached that magic swords are more durable and don't rust. This begs the question:

What manner of rules do you use about breakable weapons and armor? Can they ever break at all? If they can, then how and when?

>>52532620
>>52532777

If you want lightsabers, play star wars.

Okay, let's say your sword has an edge that can cut steel. How exactly does that help you in forcing a 6mm thick steel bar through a non-flexible material like a tempered steel breastplate?

Yes, a magic sword could be sharper than a non magic sword. Perhaps even "perpetually sharp", in stark contrast to 50hrc blades that dull pretty quickly.

But against metal armor like mail, or plate, "sharper" just doesn't cut it. you don't defeat plate by cutting it, no matter how often you repeat that autistic "but it is MAGICALLY sharp".

I'm telling you again - a weapon sharp enough to cleave through plate falls in the "what devilry is this?" category.

Compare a typical sword blade with the spiky ends of pole axes and warhammers, that were really designed for piercing plate.

>>52532648
because heavy armor is even more effective.

And while a sword (that is arguably not razor sharp - not like modern knives) doesn't cut several layers of cloth that easily, it will pierce.

Or your opponent might have CURVED SWORDS.

And, get this, armor is not just a defensive tool. It is offensive as well, because if you know you have heavier armor, you can press your advantage.

>>52532777
Not even him, but I always thought it was such a cop-out when people went "URGH, WHO CAYRES, IT JUST A GAH-MEH?"

Look at how well he knows his shit. He's trying to teach you something. This must be how my math teacher felt whenever people would tell him they'd never really use calculus in a real-life setting.

From what I can gather from a few moments of googling is that a "sharper" sword (ie. one with a more refined edge) is only as effective as it can be when faced with unarmored, light opponents (ie. 1000000 folded katana can't cut through inferior gaijin steel IRL). The sharper the edge, the more brittle the blade. Though one can argue magic can simply make the blade more durable. Fine, you still won't have enough mass to literally hack through a steel shoulder pauldron, unless your blade is 20 pounds in weight and you're swinging the thing at 200 miles per hour (in which case, you'd probably just end up crushing his shoulder anyway, rather than cutting it). At this point, it's not really the "sharpness" of the blade that's doing all the hard work. It's the mass, the speed, the hardness, and the sharpness, all working together to, realistically speaking, still not being able to cut through plate armor like you're slicing a cake.

In order to cut steel plate like that, you'd need a bladed "head", like an axe, to concentrate all that pressure onto one point. And even then, you're not really "slicing" the armor. You're "puncturing" it, like how your can opener does when you put it into a can of tuna. Fuck, I'm rambling, I'm so tired.

I'm gonna stop talking now, but my point is, you are an idiot. Hahahaha.

>>52532932

I run DCC, so most of the time when weapon breakage happens, it's in the Critical hit charts.

Alternatively, I also run Other Dust, which has weapons/armor degrade after a natural 1/20 hit.

And I'm personally thinking of a rule where having a strength bonus lets you roll multiple damage dice (take the higher), but if you get matches it damages the weapon.

>>52533040
>If you want lightsabers, play star wars.

I don't want fucking lightsabers. I don't want the sword to cut through the armor like butter. I'd just like it to be able to, every once in a while, when you strike the right way, cut at it at all.

But no, apparently armor is fucking invincible.

>>52533080
I know, and though I already knew most of this stuff about how effective armor really is, I appreciate the effort and it's really interesting.

I just disagree, and feel that even a magic sword being NEVER able to cut through ANY armor is retardedly rigid and incredibly boring.

>>52533080

desu i never pondered the exact mechanics of the "enchanted blades" (never felt the need to)

but it strikes me that if a swor could somehow (magically) have the point of balance 6cm from the hilt (or even right at the crossguard) one moment, and then 12 cm the next, to change the moment of inertia, that would be really something.

imagine if the center of percussion was able to move as well, to deliver maximum force without having to hit the sweet spot every time,

Man, wouldn't that be a sweet magic enchantment...

>>52533119

I'm not saying it's not possible to cut through ANY armor (although cut might not be the best idea), but you can certainly thrust through mail, and yes, you can cut a gambeson, i'll even link you a video, if i can remember the name of the channel.

What you shouldn't try to do, is what gunny did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDkoj932YFo&t=387s

>>52533170
Well, I think that you strawmanning my argument to being "I want to cut through full plate like butter!" wasn't exactly intellectually honest of you.

If you know so much, and insist on educating us and telling us how wrong we are, then it was kind of starting at the wrong foot.

>>52533040
>a weapon sharp enough to cleave through plate falls in the "what devilry is this?" category.
>what devilry is this?
HMMM
Almost like it was ~magic~ wouldn't you say?

>>52533233
Probably more powerful than +1, though.

>>52533185
i think there's a miscommunication here somwhere.

i'm not insisting you want to cut plate like butter, but cutting plate at all, even under the "right circimstances" is not how swords work.

Yes, you can have a super sharp sword, and yes - you can cut "soft" armor (just exactly why scimitars are more effective at that sort of thing is another thing altogether), or pop the rings on mail (especially with an acute, sharp point).

But i'm saying thare are more ways a "magical" sword could be more effective than an ordinary one, than just having a keener edge (and if you mess up edge alignment on your strike, that razor sharp edge won't do you jack).

In fact - when facing an opponent in plate, having a super sharp sword might be a detriment. Specifically, with a longsword, you might want to utilise a half sword grip (for better control of the tip, for thrusting into gaps), or for striking with the pommel (murderstroke), so not cutting off your fingers while you're at it would be a boon (and you can grip a relatively sharp sword relatively safely bare handed, unless we're getting into "cuts flesh like butter" territory).

>>52533233
>>52533238

more like +5 vorpal blade territory. And at that point, lots of pants-shitting from the local folk at whatever could cleave through plate armor would be quite justified.

Dark-soulsy parry/riposte:

>you declare you're parrying before initiative is rolled
>you can move normally but not attack
>if you are attacked, you have +2 to AC and if the attacker fails you get a free attack at +2.

Y/N? I feel this is simple enough but a bit tame to be used regularly (except by parry fanatics or PCs with bonuses for parrying, etc)

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>>52533499
I feel it's pretty simple and easy to do, and offers virtually no drawbacks, as compared to the Dark Souls parry/riposte which I can never fucking manage.

I like to use pic related: make two attack rolls, if both work you dodge enemy attack and get to hit them with extra damage.

>>52531683
It did. 3e Ravenloft actually attempted to make the setting into something you could run a long term campaign with instead of the disjointed railroad weekend in hell meat grinder of 2e. It also removed all the overt references to the rest of D&D's cosmology so I don't have to look at FR/DL bullcrap in my spooky vampire game.

plugging this again:

Melee combat is a contested roll of 2d6. Higher of the two rolls is the Attack Die, lower is the Damage Die.

Combat Advantage (momentum, higher ground, support, etc.): Roll 3d6 instead of 2d6, and discard lowest roll.
Edge (better equipment, skill, physical conditions, etc.): +1, +2, or +3 attack modifier at GM's discretion.

For multiple combatants versus one, add 1d6 for each extra combatant, and discard all but two highest rolls.

Winner of contested attack roll calculates damage as Damage = Weapon Damage x Damage Die versus Armor Class.

If the Attack Die roll is a natural 6, the attack is a critical hit (use the Critical Damage value instead).

Weapon Type: Weapon Damage/Critical Damage

Light: 1/3 (knife, dagger, improvised)
standard: 2/3 (sword, axe, mace, etc.)
Heavy: 3/4 (longsword, pole axe, etc.)

Armor Class:

shield only: 4 (5 with helmet)
helmet only: 4 (5 with shield)
light armor: 5 (6 with helmet or shield, 7 with both)
heavy armor: 7 (8 with helmet or shield, 9 with both)
plate armor: 10 (11 with helmet or shield, 12 with both)

Additionally, a helmet grants +1 AC vs critical hits, a shield wins draws (unless both combatants have one).

If calculated damage is greater than Armor, target is Wounded. Else, the target is dazed (grants advantage).
If already dazed, target is stunned (grants advantage, and edge). If already stunned, target is knocked out.


A system i've been messing with.

Instead of dealing with endless charts and corner cases, the GM just makes one ruling on advantage/edge based on the relative skill, equipment, strength, and all applicable factors, and both combatants roll.

Now, because the higher of the two rolls is tha attack roll, this favors the fighter with the edge (since you don't get stuck with a low roll that often), and because the damage roll is lower, armor is pretty effective at stopping attacks (particularly plate), but can still be defeated, and even if it isn't daze/stun/ko covers it.

>>52533676
continued:

crits happen roughly 30% of the time.

Also, with the advantage/edge system, any disparity in equipment (like attacking a longsword-wielding knight with a 10 inch dagger, when he has a 40 inch blade) is covered by a single line of text, instead of god knows how many charts, tables, and special rules.

>>52533555
That looks as retarded as the layout/design it emulates.

For called shot, I do a normal attack roll: if you hit, the target decides to take damage/whatever the attacker intended. On a crit, it happens without a choice.

But for DS you need risk/reward, and telegraphed intent. Corrected rule:

>you declare you're parrying before initiative is rolled
>you can move as a retreat (half speed, can't attack)
>if you are attacked and the attacker fails, you can cause a fumble (enemy is disarmed, trips, etc...) or attack normally at +4 (counts as backstab if thief).

Better?

>>52533803

bit better I guess, but still kind of wonky, since any system that "rolls to hit" is basically an adaptation of hollywood, not of swordfighting.

>>52533851
True, it's not 100% abstract combat, but it's better than 'put yourself in X disadvantage and if enemy fails, Y happens automatically'
Which can be abused badly, specially knowing the high ACs you can have in some games.

Think of like like the extra, free attack you get when an enemy retreats, or when you receive a charge with a polearm.

>>52523890
Can I just ask for a couple opinions about how some of the martial classes are supposed to work, Skerples?

Fighter's gain +1 attack with some templates. That means +1 to hit or an additional attack per round? (I've ruled it as the former)

That also reminds me: How did you handle to-hit bonuses from STR and DEX? I don't think they're supposed to apply, but am curious.

The Tactician's "Spot Opportunity" states "whenever your party rolls initiative" which in practice seems like it's a once-per-round effect, which seems off, considering the phrasing. Seems a bit strong for anything more than a once-per-battle thing.

I may be wrong though.


I dig the GLOG so far though. Houseruled some things here and there(like using the classic ability modifier range, changed the core mechanic around a bit to ease up on the player-side math, and made skills be d20-based like the rest, but keeping the probabilities similar enough), but that's to be expected. The messily compiled and edited nature of it adds to its charm.

>>52533803
How's it retarded?

>>52534046
Because you have to make 2 rolls, see if they hit, then parse the results into 3 outcomes.
At best, you deal damage, which is not what you may want (we're talking OSR, idk why 'feats' should be about damage).
At worst, you get a fumble and the DM has to come up with something on the spot. As a Dm, fuck that.
In every other situation, the attacker chooses what happens (damage OR feat fx). As a player, fuck that.

Compare with:
>Declare intent, make a normal attack roll: if you hit, the target decides to take damage/whatever the attacker intended. On a crit, it happens without a choice.

>>52534156
Well, I don't see that such a bother. But then, I prefer a system where fighters get to attack more often than once per round.

Apparently that's too much for some.

>>52534156
What's the drawback of that system? Why would the players not declare weird shit on every turn?

>>52532457
>even in settings where plate armor is available, and not prohibitively expensive, it's just not something you wear when you go adventuring, or heat exhaustion will drop you before you even run into any enemies.

I'm skeptical as hell, especially considering knights would have battles that last 50x as long as most adventurers do.

>>52532375
>but turning them all into suave acrobatic swashbucklers was one of the worst things 3e did.

One of the best things, you mean.

A class that can't effectively participate in combat, but requires spotlight design, is the worst possible option.

>>52534746
It basically just makes them fighters with a different name.

Make them a little better at combat? Fair, clerics are a bit better. Make them equally as good as fighters, or even more so? Nope, never.

>>52534662
This. Let's say your normal chance to hit is 50%

A normal attack: 50% chance to do damage, 50% chance to miss.
A special attack: 25% chance to do damage and perform feat, 50% chance to either do damage or perform feat, 25% chance to miss.

If you value the feat the same as damage, you're literally twice as effective when you perform a feat.

>>52534865
Exactly. So why would you -not- do that?

There has to be a drawback to all that power.

>>52534816
A buff to sneak attack at high levels and the same for low level thief skills is all they really need imo.

>>52534197
>>52534662
>>52534865
I get the impression that you didn't even read my post and simply want to shill your crappy houserule.

It's too complex for what it does. It's predictable. Complex+Predictable=Boring. Full stop.

Nobody cares about rules anyway, only if they bog down the game (like yours). Best rules are invisible rules.

>>52535000
I read your post, and I don't think the rule is either complex or predictable.

If yours is so much better, than answer my question: what's the drawback? Why would the player characters ever -not- try all these weird maneuvers?

>Nobody cares

Speak for yourself.

>>52535000
>I get the impression that you didn't even read my post and simply want to shill your crappy houserule.

Welcome to /OSRG/.

>>52534722
Most of a battle is standing around. Discounting that, most of the rest is walking. Discounting that, most of the rest is yelling, and probably jogging or running after that.

>>52535041
In my game NPCs and intelligent monsters try to disarm/trip on a regular basis, and very clever opponents use very nasty tactics using this same rule.

It's just a normal roll, but instead of rolling damage straight away, I ask the player if he'd rather drop the weapon/shield/get pinned/grappled/etc. They decide and we keep playing.

>complex
Because you have to make 2 rolls, see if they hit, then parse the results into 3 outcomes.
>predictable
The attacker decides. PCs will always use the 'feat' effect. When enemies use feats upon them, they suffer the effect without choice.
Boring.

D&D has that already - "<monster> grapples on a succesful hit". No need to make 2 rolls, see if they hit, then parse the results into 3 outcomes.

The rule I suggested (not MY rule as you say, I stole from someone else) simply injects a bit of player agency here and there while keeping the game FAST.

>>52535284
That still doesn't answer my question.

Why would I simply roll to hit when I could roll to hit and/or try to disarm? It seems pretty objectively the better choice.

>>52534722
I mean you don't casually put on plate armor and walk around in it. You don it for battles, tournaments, and the like. A guard on duty might wear one, especially if it's not full plate, and he's a royal guard of some kind.

When you go out adventuring, i'd sooner expect you to bring plate armor and only wear it in the dungeon or whatever, not all the time.

>>52535852
What if it's magic plate?

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It's really eerie how much of the official 3e hype was YOUR CHARACTER IS SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL!1!!11!

>>52535878
The bit about the backstab is fair enough, though. Backstab is weak even within context - basically worthless.

>in 2e, the average dolphin is smarter than a human and Lawful Good

wait what

>>52532387

I do both, but for quickly sketching out ideas, I have notebooks. Once I'm satisfied with how it has developed, I transfer it to digital so I can print it out and have it organized for play.

>>52535878
Don't forget all the stuff about NO BORING ROLEPLAYING JUST STRAIGHT DUNGEON CRAWLS ALL DAY EVERY DAY

3e's marketing was about as good as the rest of 3e.

>>52535950
Dolphins are the second-smartest creatures on the planet, after all, with humans only the third.

Look up the stats of mice.

>>52535867
Magic, or elven - you could wear that without exhaustion. Though it might still be less comfortable, and unless the harness was specifically enchanted to boost endurance, the DM might still rule for some penalty here.

>>52535950
They only pretend to be dumb animals to keep up the illusion and protect their secret underwater utopia. Mankind must never know, lest the land-apes despot the glorious dolphin kingdom.

>>52535992
I think he were talking about dolphins' alignment, what with them being horrible rapemonster murderfucks.

Dolphins are smart enough to play RPGs, but always want to play FATAL.

>>52536091
>horrible rapemonster murderfucks.

Sounds about on par with people.

>>52536113
Yeah, but humans generally aren't assigned a species-wide "lawful good" alignment.

>>52535950
It was the 80s.

>>52534816
>It basically just makes them fighters with a different name.

A vast improvement with no downsides, sign me up.

>Make them equally as good as fighters, or even more so?

Erm... lets not pretend that there is much that is intentional about the 3e fighter at all. Everyone should be able to participate in combat quite well, that's non-negotiable.

The worst possible design choice is:

1. Can't fight competently
2. Needs the DM to assign specific minigame shit for him to be usable

Ideally, everyone should be able to participate in obstacles and everyone should be able to participate in combat well.

>>52535852
Eh, plate is so often worthless even when you don't drag that shit and entire games that I see no reason to nerf it in the name of realism.

>>52535984
That's a legitimate response to 2e, though. I like 2e, don't get me wrong, but a lot of 2e was being reactionary against 1e, massively de emphasizing dungeons in the name of elitist storytelling.

Not to mention that dungeons, as improbable and often borderline B-movie science fiction alien ecosystems crammed beneath pastoral Tolkeinish landscapes, offer just as good roleplaying opportunities as Ravenloft and Birthright.

>>52536141
9 axis alignment was a mistake.

>>52536552
Oh, true, it's just really funny when you look at what 3e fans turned it into, claiming it was the perfect realistic physics simulator for true roleplaying verisimilitude and not some dumbed-down dungeon crawler game for babies.

>>52536465
>Everyone should be able to participate in combat quite well, that's non-negotiable.

Sure, but it's really less about rogues sucking and more about fighters being really awesome at it, at least in melee.

In my experience, even wizards can contribute to melee combat.

>>52536601
Yes.

I kinda like the Lawful - Good - Neutral - Evil - Chaos line alignment from WHFRP 1e but in general, LNC is the way to go.

>>52536519

That's why i wrote my own combat system to replace the charts from od&d. See >>52533676

>>52536615
>Sure, but it's really less about rogues sucking and more about fighters being really awesome at it, at least in melee.

Fighters are really awesome at combat.
Magic users are really awesome at combat.
Clerics are really awesome at combat.
Thieves are... really bad at combat, and require you to shine a spotlight on him to make him feel good periodically, and that's the "ideal circumstance."

>>52536731
Don't forget: magic-users literally have a spotlight, and clerics have spare batteries and a smaller spotlight.

>>52536769

Not at all, they do fine without the DM setting up stuff just for them.

>>52532356
Just lower xp requirements.

>>52536731
Fighters are really awesome at combat by beating up stuff.
Magic users are really awesome at combat by casting spells
Clerics are really awesome at combat by casting spells, turning undead, healing, and occasionally beating up a little but not quite as much as fighters do.
The only way for thieves to become better at combat, it seems, would be to just straight up make them better at fighting - which would encroach right into the fighter's territory, which I, as a fan of fighters and believer that the name "fighter" should fucking mean something, really don't like.

Make thieves fight too, and what do you get? A dodgier, acrobatic fighter that occasionally sneak attacks. A fighter.

>>52536839
Already have 1/2 required XP for all classes (it's a short+fast campaign) and it's still too slow...

>>52530540
> thief
> 14 Dex
leave now

>>52536913
14 dex is perfectly fine for a thief.

So, Journeymann Rules Kickstarter is live: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/861386488/blueholmetm-journeymanne-rules

Did anyone back it yet and is he willing to share the pdf? I would back it but I don't own a credit card :/

>>52536878

>which would encroach right into the fighter's territory

Eh, a fighter using light weapons, crossbows, and light armor is pretty useless and suicidal, so I see no problem letting the thief be good with those. Mobility is also a good niche the fighter hasn't touched.

Demihuman fighter/thieves are overall a pretty good use for them, alternatively.

>mongrelmen are the accidental creations of a wizard with no sense of right and wrong
>they make perfect slave material because their ancestors had undying loyalty encoded in their genetic code

Mongrelmen had a hard life.

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>Stat Conan

Too easy.

Incidentally, I gotta say, I would love to see an RPG where character progressions are more like this.

>>52537185
With multiclassing open for everyone?

Would be easy to houserule. I've done it.

So is Rules Cyclopedia the be all end all for someone looking to run a basic campaign?

>>52537333
Just run them AD&D. It's basically the same except put down better.

>>52537354
I specifically want Basic though.

>>52537406
If you use Rules Cyclopedia, why use Basic?

>>52537333
Nah it's kind of broken. Lots of untested stuff -- combat is directly unplayable.
It's meant for LONG campaigns, therefore low levels are even more fucked than in Basic (the poor thieves...) Plus it has a bloatload of extra options (Advanced-isms).

>>52537448
RC is compiled basic rules plus some new stuff, isn't it?

>>52537518
The "some new stuff" is AD&D.

>>52535950
2e also explicitly states animal intelligence is different mechanically

>>52531458
>Because I'm playing a more modern-fantasy version of OSR without classes, I wanted first aid to be a little more interesting then just use a spell (since there aren't spells), or heal X amount of health.
when you take both classes and magic out of the OSR, what you're left with doesn't really feel OSR relevant at all

>>52536924
Right, but for Conan the Fucking Barbarian?

>>52537185
this is pretty cool

>>52532528
a. About the same.
b. Not the same.
c. No nonsense AD&D =/= LBB
d. All weapons have too be same to-hit chance and on-hit damage, but daggers make 2 attacks/round.

>>52537960
>d. All weapons have too be same to-hit chance and on-hit damage, but daggers make 2 attacks/round.
I just checked and daggers do 2 attacks for d4 each, and what you say sounds a lot more unbalanced.
Where does it say that weapons get different chances to hit? IIRC that only happens in Chainmail combat.

>>52535318
>cricket sounds

There is no reason not to, which is why his proposed fix is shitty. Also his analysis of the posted rule he's criticizing is off because he's interpreting the 25% failure as a "miss" and not a fumble. That 25% fumble chance is absolutely worse than a regular miss, so it's fine if your chances of that are reduced from 50% to 25%.

And yeah, some DMs don't like to make up fumbles on the spot, which is why you make or find a table if you think you'll need one. Me? I love making up stuff like that so I'll be using that guy's houserule as-is.

>>52533119
>apparently armor is fucking invincible.
That's pretty accurate. They used to dent plate with guns before selling it, as proof that the gun couldn't pierce through.

>>52537773
>gets statted up as an übermensch
>it's not enough, he also needs straight 18's across the board.

>>52538510
Well, he wouldn't be much of an übermensch if he didn't have 18s all across, now would he?

>>52538361

also supplement I (greyhawk) - there's a table on page 13/14 with attack bonuses/penalties for different weapons based on the target AC (and some weapons get different bonuses if the target is prone).

>>52537960
>daggers make 2 attacks/round.
t. Thief main

>>52538542
He's some of the finest humanity got to offer. Not a demigod.

>>52533676
>plate benefiting from shields

>>52538842

a fair point.

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>>52536898
Lower the Thief xp

r e l a t i v e
t o
t h e
o t h e r
c l a s s e s

so the Thief level rate increases

r e l a t i v e
t o
t h e
o t h e r
c l a s s e s

It's fine to want faster advancement, but that's not the goal here.

Imagine a graph of xp v. contribution, with a plot on it for each class.
You want all of the lines to be close together. So the Thief's needs to be steeper.

>>52538842
I've never seen a system where plate wouldn't benefit from shields. Why couldn't they?

>>52539146
Explain, in as much detail as possible, what you think it is that shields do and are used for.

>TSR code of ethics
>13: SLAVERY
>Slavery is not to be depicted in a favorable light; it should only be represented as a cruel and inhuman institution to be abolished.

And yet Al-Qadim has slavery as a "not in good taste but not morally Evil" thing in-setting and slavery doesn't seem particularly Evil in Dark Sun.

What gives?

>>52539146
Presumably because anon implying implications based on how IRL plate-armored knights didn't need shields because their armor protected them from the rabble

But it's not like shield+plate wouldn't be more protective- it's just IRL its overkill and heavy considering fatigue and shit

>>52539266
To block attacks.

Like, you've got a full plate to defend yourself, but then why not have another chunk of steel on your arm to protect yourself even better?

>>52539134
I know, anon. Just saying that that wound be a bit too much for my current campaign - think that thieves need only 600 XP to 2th level already.

What I don't get is what you're talking about now, but if you mean lowering the XP table gradually so low levels are fast but high levels slower ("steeper advancement") D&D has already a lot of that, plus that'd be a pita to balance.

I'm a fan of brief solutions like: What's your fave weapon, Thief? You can attack twice/round with that.

>>52531031
But it doesn't have the True Fifth Supplement, Carcosa, so how are we supposed to get rules for raping 11-year-old White girls to death and summoning demons from their mangled snatches?

>>52537540
No, it's modified Immortals rules, some modified monster stats, clarification of the Weapon Mastery rules. There are rules in one section detailing how to convert the game to AD&D but that's about it I think.

>>52533676
>>52539146
I've played a D&D-ish system running with 2d6 math, for about a year. Shields were completely OP, even tweaked. In 2d6 you have to keep bonuses very small, +3 should be a HARD MAX across the system.
I think leather was 7, chain 8 and plate 9, +1 for shield. Shields never get magical bonuses, armor can get a +1 or *rarely* +2. Same w/ weapons.

I still have the pdf around, I think (at least the cheatsheet). Interested?

>>52539357
>wat

>>52539328
It DOESN'T protect you any better, but it DOES tie down a hand.

>>52539593
Why wouldn't it protect you better?

Suppose someone manages to swing his sword so well that it'd find a chink in your armor, except there's a shield in the way. Then it would protect you.

>>52539328

because it gets in the way, and having a longsword or a pole axe is more beneficial, than having an arming sword and shield.

Like >>52539316 said - a shield with plate would be overkill - the plate already protects you well enough, and there is more benefit to having both hands free to use two handed weapons, than using a shield.

Also - shields do more than just block attacks. Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkhpqAGdZPc

>>52539423
that's probably more due to the fact that 2d6 produces a bell curve, rather than a result of smaller range. If you had used a single d12 instead of 2d6, that +1 bonus wouldn't have been so OP.

>>52539671
>Also - shields do more than just block attacks.

But isn't this an argument FOR using a shield with your full plate, rather than against it?

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Discuss.

>>52539483
Just open Carcosa to a random page in the Sorcerer Ritual section. I got 2 sacrifices (one was a male though) and one strangling of a pregnant woman. Even got one ritual where I didn't specifically have to kill anyone!

Its actually worth reading for ideas though. Some cool shit there. Its just dark af.

>>52539632

that's not how you use a shield. Forget hollywood.

Shields are not for intercepting attacks that would otherwise hurt you - they are for foiling attacks before they happen, or closing a line so an attack doesn't happen.

Only when you are wearing metal, you can just do that with your arms.

>>52539704
What of darkvision?

>>52535950

Chimpanzees have a higher average IQ then many African nations. Dolphins are much smarter then Chimpanzees.

>>52539728
Forgot to take off my trip tho. Probably botches the ritual and consigns my soul to doublehell.

>>52539695
not really - while you can use a shield to create an opening, you can do it even better with opposable thumbs.

Strictly speaking, the benefits of having a shield are very minor compared to having a better weapon.

>>52539704
Cool kingdom-death storygame but change the font for something readable?

What's the best system for armor? Design and model like in D&D, material used in it like in Elder Scrolls, or country and culture like in Dark Souls?

Started reading Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, this shit is fantastic and reads like a dungeon crawl.
Rec. me more like this.

>>52540048
Demon in The Mirror

>>52537333
I don't know, do you plan your campaign to be really long? Because B/X 14th levels are more than enough for me (mine stopped around 10-12)

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really increases my Intelligence by one point

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>>52539337
12 minutes in MS paint.

Today, my LotFP party got out out of the God That Crawls dungeon without ever being attacked by the God(it was within 20 feet of them for about an hour of in-game time, though).
They got a bunch of scrolls and a few jewels, plus several potions.

They left through the door(broke the bar and then ran out when they realized it was rigged to collapse) and met a farmer, who offered them some food. That's where the session ended.

One of them ate the bread he was given, but the others seem a little wary of it, so the priest is also being alerted to their escape and the villagers are ofc gonna show up at the start of next session.

What are some good, succinct rules for cold, freezing, and hypothermia?

>>52541297
Related to this, how do I figure out how much money the scrolls and potions in the dungeon are worth?
I can't find spells to match some of the potions to, for spell-level purposes, and presumably having them give a variable amount of xp based on how long they took to make wouldn't really be fair, anyways.

>>52541740

Every turn you spend out in a cold place without an effort protect yourself (clothing, fire, potion of resistance, etc), you get 1d4 exposure points. If you protect yourself, you only take 1 exposure point per turn. This reduction only lasts a number of turns equal to each protective measure you've taken. (Cloak, boots, gloves, furs. Then you take normal exposure until you rest and dry your clothes in a warm place, in which case the protection returns)

Each exposure point lowers your maximum health by -1.

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Is it horrible to say I'm sick of Dyson Logos maps?

His layouts are great, I just hate that cross-hatching has become the standard for a lot of dungeon maps.

Solid black/blue is way more readable and easier on the eyes.

>>52541740
>succint
Dark of the Moon covers all that in 2-3 pages, is that succinct?

>>52541853
>Solid black/blue is way more readable and easier on the eyes.

Not to mention easier to draw.

Are there any such solid map generation programs out there that offer a lot of options and aren't random?

>>52541853

Yeah but cross-hatching is Aesthetic AF

>>52541899
I'd love this. I'm slowly learning Illustrator but it feels like overkill.

>>52541905
Eh, it looks really nice at first, but the novelty wears off. Now when I see his maps in a book that otherwise has a clean design that doesn't draw much attention to itself (in a good way), they really stand out. It's like seeing Comic Sans or WordArt or something.

I suppose the problem isn't so much the maps themselves, it's their imitation and overuse.

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>>52540048

Nifft the Lean.

>>52539743

Dolphin intelligence has been vastly overstated. Something like half their brain is insulation against the cold, and frankly, experiments have proven only that they're trainable.

Octopi are better at solving problems than dolphins are.

As for dolphins being smarter than chimps? [citation needed] anon.

>>52543216

Dude, he's just meming bullshit. Ignore him.

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>>52534026
>Fighter's gain +1 attack with some templates.

+1 Attack per round is how I interpreted it. It seems to be a more than adequate buff.

>How did you handle to-hit bonuses from STR and DEX?

Neither applies, in my hack. Your Attack is your Attack. Dex modifies bow and dagger damage. Str modifies everything else's damage.

>The Tactician's "Spot Opportunity" states "whenever your party rolls initiative" which in practice seems like it's a once-per-round effect, which seems off, considering the phrasing. Seems a bit strong for anything more than a once-per-battle thing.

Sorry, give me a bit, I didn't use the Tactician so I'm not sure how that works.

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>>52531142
>What's OSR's obsession with weird, anyway?

Pretty well answered elsewhere, but the >>52530777
weird vision thing for elves here wasn't about being weird for weird's sake.

I should have phrased it as "Neither. Something that does not directly influence the darkness/light management mechanics of an OSR game, while still providing a benefit and allowing for interesting solutions to problems, as well as introducing new challenges."

But then I'd sound like a prat.

>>52543382
Sure, but even actually functional infravision is pretty weird and challenging by modern standards.

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>>52531142
OSR is no weirder than D&D in general.

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Teeny update to my "Running LotFP 5e Style" homebrew.

Been using it at the table running a 5e adventure, The Lost Mines of Phandelver. So far my players are super happy with the more...forgiving gameplay and higher PC abilities. Haven't really found any kinks in the mechanics at the table yet.

One thing that might be concerning: The Barbarian's 'Rage Mode' attack doing Weapon+d4+Level in damage becoming OP as fuck in later levels.

>>52531142
Alot of the more visible writers are either sharing their own idiosyncratic gameworld, or go for a more unusual setting that lets them play around with new ideas. There's plenty of material out there if you want a standard pseudohistory + fairytale setting, or a knock off of middle earth.

It's also been part of the DNA of the game for decades... just by using the material in the main rulebooks, you can end up with elves and knights fighting dinosaurs and floating eyeball creatures that shoot raybeams.

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>>52543413
That's fair. But it's weird in a vaguely inconvenient way.

Imagine you have a party of 5 with one guy who can breathe underwater.

Or one guy who can see in the dark.

Or one guy who is immune to fire.

Or one guy who is immune to poison, fall damage, lightning, fear, or disease.

Suddenly, a lot of the dungeon's "threats" are no longer threats. You need to recalibrate. If the entire party is immune to disease, whatever, but if there's a weird mix of abilities it starts to constrain the design space pretty quickly.

>>52543524
I don't know about that. I feel like there's some fun in letting each character solve supposedly impossible problems with ease, thanks to their own unique abilities. The Six Servants is my favorite Grimm fairy tale for this reason.

That said, I also don't know whether infravision would count as that: it works all weird and has probably as many drawbacks as it has benefits. Sure, sometimes it can deal with a challenge, but other times it's just a chore.

Is this the thread for BFRPG?

I'm brewing up a megadungeon campaign (with some wilderness exploration and mini dungeons if the players need a break from the delve) and am planning on having a very open table, low commitment text only table on roll20 where random people can show up, form a party in 5 minutes, and go adventuring, trying to find the fabled Orb of Omnipotence.

I want to keep it oldschool but I think a lot of people think 'oldschool' means 'soulless hack n slash, 100% clear each floor' which isn't really oldschool, it's bad interpretation by teenagers of gygaxes fragmentary advice.

Rundown of the first floor of the mega dungeon
~100 rooms, maybe 25 combat encounters.

A fair few trapped or secret doors- I tried to give every trap a 'tell' to allow even thiefless parties to be wary of them so they're not just mechanical HP taxes/Instadeath checks.

Not that many pre-planned combat encounters. Very simply hidden treasure.

The dungeon is a big X shape, roughly becoming tougher as you go south and east, with the northeast being the easiest.

3rd level Goblin wizard with a powerful scroll is the 'boss' of the southwest, which is fairly empty except for a few cultish skeletons. The place is a bit choked with illusory walls and Magic Mouths.

Northwest is mostly traps and tricks. A healing nymph and a 'dial-a-demon' pentagram is the crazy things there, and the 'Big Treasure' (6,000 GP and fatty loot) is behind some secret doors.

Northeast has two warring goblin tribes, one of whom are enchanted to have South be 'Down' for them gravitationally. The same thing can happen to the PC's.

Southeast is the 'Tough' area. Wandering basilisk is the dread monster, but there's loadsa warnings.


Anyway, why the hell am I bringing it up here? I dunno. Just to talk about it. Advice on advertising the game properly. Advice on 'restocking' the dungeon between sessions. Help with not killing TOO many level 1 characters.

>>52543524
Only one guy having that in most cases is... not helpful at all.

Seriously, what the hell? If you're the only person not immune to fear, you're gonna have a bad time.

>>52543710
>but I think a lot of people think 'oldschool' means 'soulless hack n slash, 100% clear each floor' which isn't really oldschool
reminds me of the guy who once came to me, wanting to play DnD, but explicitly said "no dungeons" because he "prefers a more social game"
After trying to explain that dungeons should properly be social things with factions, he just brushed it off as "hack and slash"

>>52531142
>>52531172
I'm reasonably sure that the current "gonzo weirdness" meme is a reaction to the "realistic gritty fantastical Europe" meme.

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>>52543599
> solve supposedly impossible problems with ease, thanks to their own unique abilities.

I think it's fun, but not very old-school feeling in a way. The most important tool is your brain.Realizing that you can use the pig bladders you bought in town to get through a flooded hallway is smart. Sending the fish-man ahead to scout just feels... obvious.

Could just be me though.

Any infravision removes the "30' radius sphere of safety" effect of a torch. It means your band of murderhobos isn't quite as afraid of the dark anymore. That's a real loss.

>>52543785
It's surprisingly helpful, and it's also surprisingly threat-diminishing. One guy having immunity from X makes X less of a threat, mentally, to the entire group. It kind of trivializes a potentially dangerous or neat situation.

>Seriously, what the hell? If you're the only person not immune to fear, you're gonna have a bad time.

That is a very good point.

>>52543812
Yeah, my fear is that dungeon stigma will mean blind advertising won't work to bring in quality players, and trying to explain my dungeon vision in more depth will just make me sound like a fossil. A longwinded fossil. But better to drive people away with too much honesty than to draw them in with a misunderstanding I suppose, so not worth worrying about.

>>52543524

This is why I think all the different races should just be reskins with few if any differences.

Or you could just do all humans, if you wanted to be a patrician.

>>52543904
>Any infravision removes the "30' radius sphere of safety" effect of a torch. It means your band of murderhobos isn't quite as afraid of the dark anymore. That's a real loss.

Yeah, but most dungeon walls are cold. The guy with infravision isn't going to be able to see them in the dark any better than you or me.

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>>52543710
>) and am planning on having a very open table, low commitment text only table on roll20 where random people can show up, form a party in 5 minutes, and go adventuring, trying to find the fabled Orb of Omnipotence.

Sound fun, but low commitment = low quality content, I've found. People are more willing to be shitty players if they've invested nothing.

> I think a lot of people think 'oldschool' means

Bit of advice; keep your opinions to yourself while asking for advice. The longer your post, and the more twists and turns in it, the less likely anyone is to help. You might be perfectly correct, but it's also not relevant.

It sounds like you're kind of inexperienced with this in general. You've wandered into a chess forum and asked "I think the scholar's mate is a good trick." We know. It's OK. Focus.

>Advice on 'restocking' the dungeon between sessions.

Tables. Big ol' tables. Barrowmaze has some excellent stuff to steal in this regard.

>Help with not killing TOO many level 1 characters.

Killing them because they acted on incomplete information is one thing. Killing them because of chance, stupidity, ambition, or greed is fine. It's part of the charm.

>>52543327
>+1 Attack per round is how I interpreted it. It seems to be a more than adequate buff.
See, I wasn't so sure, because according to Arnold, dual-wielding only gives you a +1, instead of 2 attacks. So I was under the impression he was against multiple attacks in general (ignoring cleave)
On the other hand, multiple attacks feel like such a "Fighter" thing to have, it'd be a shame to lose it.
Suppose this kinda falls under what you meant with the GLOG using uneven terminology.

>Sorry, give me a bit, I didn't use the Tactician so I'm not sure how that works.
Thanks for considering it! I'll be lurking here anyway, so no rush.

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>>52543982
>This is why I think all the different races should just be reskins with few if any differences.

GENTLEMEN, behold!

>>52543994
Walls are cold. The goblins circling you are warm. The bats are warm. The staff of the wizard hiding in an illusory boulder is toasty warm.

It's a neat bonus, but it's also not really a necessary one. It's a rare player who can make it interesting.

>>52544088
Too many -lings.

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>>52544116
That's exactly what I'd expect a Terran to say.

Shoulda walled off, son.

>>52544054
>Suppose this kinda falls under what you meant with the GLOG using uneven terminology.

Oh my yes.

For example, he doesn't really define how spellcasting works. Or concentration-based spells. Or when spells return to your spellbook.

As for the Tactician ability, you roll Initiative every round, remember? Roll under Wis, if you succeed, go before the monsters, if you fail, go after. Some monsters give you a penalty or bonus?

Anyway, all this means is "whoever rolls lowest (to save time) on their Initiative roll this round gets the bonus." It's not a huge bonus, but it helps.

>>52544044
I am indeed new to the general, sorry.

>Sound fun, but low commitment = low quality content, I've found. People are more willing to be shitty players if they've invested nothing.

I might just go for a large number of open slots, then, if you think trying to get the sense of different players with different experiences and different amounts of experience straight from the get-go is folly.

>>52543982
>This is why I think all the different races should just be reskins with few if any differences.
>Or you could just do all humans, if you wanted to be a patrician.
both of those suggestions are boring ones

but then I came into D&D during 3rd & 4th Editions, so a lot of things that people in these parts don't like with those editions(or modern RPG's in general) I'm more than fine with, main reason I'm interested in the OSR is comparative ease of use, ease of modification, and cause of a lot of high quality content being put out for it, most of the philosophical and stylistic trappings of the OSR I honestly couldn't give a rat's ass about(indeed there's quite a few I outright despise)

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>>52544242
No need to apologize for being new. Just accept that you've got some homework.

>you think trying to get the sense of different players with different experiences and different amounts of experience straight from the get-go is folly.

I don't really run online games, so I can't help you there, sorry. Just be aware that you might end up putting in disproportionate effort for the quality of play you get.

>>52543904
>It kind of trivializes a potentially dangerous or neat situation.

You are immune to fall damage. Well, that's nice for you, but the rest of the party are still lying on the ground with shattered legs. Now you're going to have to somehow get your broke ass party up the pit and to home. Everyone's potions are PROBABLY shattered too.

You are immune to fire damage. That's good for you, not so good for your scrolls, or the charred husks of your party.

You are immune to poison. You wind up being forced to be the point man, by FAR the most death inducing role in the party. If you're in light armor, you're probably butchered the first time you're surprised; if you're in heavy armor, you're probably inevitably left behind if the party has to flee.

You can see in the dark. Everyone else still brings torches and gives away their position. If you want to do solo scouting... well, you're probably the most likely party member to die.

>>52541853
Not until I see enough other mappers using more non-standard room designs. My only complaint is that his stuff is always so small. If love to see him do a proper sprawling megadungeon.

>>52544161
>For example, he doesn't really define how spellcasting works. Or concentration-based spells. Or when spells return to your spellbook.
Thanks for the heads up there. I was considering the concentration duration already, and I think I'll just go with "you cannot cast or do demanding tasks as long as you're concentrating."

>Anyway, all this means is "whoever rolls lowest (to save time) on their Initiative roll this round gets the bonus." It's not a huge bonus, but it helps.
I must admit, this is a great solution to speeding it up, which was my original issue with it. Great idea.

>>52544254
>there's quite a few I outright despise

Like?

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>>52544323
Some people see the party half dead. I see them half alive.

Or to put it another way:

You are not immune to fall damage. You and the entire party are lying on the ground with shattered legs because you made a mistake. Now you're going to somehow work together to get out of the pit and home. Several of you may die.

You are not immune to fire damage. The hallway of fire spouts is very threatening. If you get hit, not only will you take damage, but your scrolls and clothes will burn. The party is looking for a way to put out the flames to get the key on the other side. The Cornucopia of Beef Stew you found a few rooms back might save the day.

You are not immune to poison. Every day, you draw lots for who goes into the dungeon first. you're in light armor, you're probably butchered the first time you're surprised; if you're in heavy armor, you're probably inevitably left behind if the party has to flee. And you also die to poison.

You can't see in the dark. You really wish you could though. You heard something skitter out there, maybe 50' away. You're certain it's circling the party. You have one torch left and once that's gone you're going to be using candles. Fucking candles. Six layers deep in the dungeon, and no one to guide you out.

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>>52544410
>I must admit, this is a great solution to speeding it up, which was my original issue with it. Great idea.

Thanks. You could even rule that if the Tactician crits their Initiative, they get the bonus and 1 ally also gets the bonus or something.

>>52544498
Of course, but none of that is close to a trivialization. At worst, its a way you can use improv to negate certain obstacles that'd probably be improv'd away anyway.

And noone's denying that that sort of thing is good... for the person who has it. Abilities that are mostly summed up as defensive are only going to be game changers, let alone trivializers, if you have some sort of really strong tank/taunt/aoe block mechanics and some way of leveraging it, but you probably don't.

Immunity to poison is probably the biggest deal, as it comes less often in aoe form.

Is there any particularly good reason to cap racial classes at a low level, or is this just something left over from Gygax being unable to conceive that anyone would want to play anything other than a Human Fighting-Man.

>>52544629

People played longer in the old days, so you were sacrificing late game power a boost in early levels.
Also explains why the world's not dominated by maxed level elves and dwarves.

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For all the people who were demanding a GLOG cleric, here you go. It's generic. It's customizable. It's got those sweet sweet level-less spells you were asking for.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/04/osr-cleric-spells.html
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/04/osr-religion-in-elderstone.html

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>>52533136
Behold. The greatest concept art of all time. Also, there's like a little catch near the bottom, toward the hilt, where you can manually choose to keep the little weighted disk in place, just in case you don't want to use it at the time.

>>52544770
Book of the New Sun?

>>52543710
>~100 rooms, maybe 25 combat encounters.
That seems... busy. A lot of set-pieces. Maybe I'm over-reliant on random tables, but I would leave most of that to Wandering Monsters.

Im writing some custom classes for my homebrew. Working on a tomb robber/treasure hunter type class.

What would be some fun special abilities for an Indiana Jones or Lara Croft style adventurer.

So far I've got ancient lore knowledge, magic item identification, chance to find valuable relics lying around, some kind of bonus for donating rare valuables to museums/collectors and higher carrying capacity.

I need like, 4 or 5 more things.

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>>52544810
W-What? Someone already did this before me?

DELET THIS. DELET THIS NOW! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

>>52544811
>That seems... busy
It's only a quarter, my man.

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>>52544839
> Indiana Jones or Lara Croft style adventurer.

In my opinion, all Adventurers are like Indiana Jones, just without the Archeology skill. OSR-wise he's the delicious soup base to which you add other ingredients.

Sure, you can serve a soup that's entirely soup base... but why?

>chance to find valuable relics lying around

Wait... what? Like "reroll on a treasure table?"

That's kind of neat but also supremely annoying from a realism POV.

>some kind of bonus for donating rare valuables to museums/collectors

... money?

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>>52544811

>>52544629
its largely based off the humanocentricism of Poul Anderson, especially in Three Hearts and Three Lions, and how a beefy human knight can still take on elves potentially, amongst other things. The elves and fey in his works tend to have to outsmart humans rather than always plowing through them.

Mechanically speaking, there's no balance reason for the midget races to have level caps if the rules for them being slower and more limited in choice of mount and weaponry are used, they're just lumped in with elves as "Demihumans." For elves, the reason is that fighter-caster hybrids are insano and essentially should be conceived of as their own class (Class: Elf or Class: Bladesinger) balanced on its own metrics.

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What are some of the best things you can summon in OSR games? What are you default "normal animals" or "celestial creatures" or "allies"?

What are some classic dungeon crawl adventures/one shots ? System doesn't matter so much. I just want to know what like some of the most notorious or famous ones are, and then give them a read through .

>>52545005
Wait there's a lazy dm dungeon generator ? What book?

>>52546338

It's the DMG, anon. Gygax's greatest gift to DMs.

>>52546338
>What book?
AD&D 1e DMG.

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>>52546301
If I had to pick some to read in an afternoon, to get up to speed quickly, in order:

The Keep on the Borderlands
Tomb of Horrors
Ravenloft
Deep Carbon Observatory

And all these comics you can find. No, I'm not going to post them for you. Get your google-fu on.

>>52546338
That was a shibboleth, and you failed.

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>>52545960

Kind of random but I like to think that's where a lot of weird fantasy chimera style animal creatures come from.

Like when a Wizard conjures a creature, it doesn't pull it from somewhere else. It creates it out of imagination. The Wizard gives his creature the body of a deer for speed, but the teeth of a lion and the horns of cattle for goring foes. Maybe scaled skin along its legs to protect itself from damage. Then it is creates and fights, but occasionally those creations manage to stay in our world and maybe reproduce with other wild animals or through other means, creating some weird chimeric monsters running around.

>>52544629

It's actually to encourage players to play as humans, because non-humans have distinct advantages over human characters. It's an attempt at balance.

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>>52546500
That's fairly neat, but sadly, not too useful. I'm working on a Summoner class, who summon 99 distinct "entities" to aid them. I need to figure out what sort of things people commonly summon to make sure I have entities to fill those roles.

>>52546378
>>52546360
Thanks

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>>52544938
>all Adventurers are like Indiana Jones,
>just without the Archeology skill.
Good joke. 7/10

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>>52546748
Well, he clearly had the skill. He just never bothered rolling it.

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>>52545960
Whatever is nearby. It's a summons, not a teleport.

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>>52531142
>bizarre gonzo scifi-fantasy mash-up with aliens and rayguns

It's not even that weird. I read the d20 update to Wilderlands of High Fantasy recently, it has this whole introduction dedicated to: "Aliens did it, this was fine in the 70s/80s, omit it if you want."

Most popular fantasy settings have an alien/Earth connection. Even Middle-earth did until Tolkien changed his mind. The settings WITHOUT aliens/Earth are the weird ones.

>>52546578
You riff Ars Goetia yet? Every 1/3rd summon should have a way to get you laid.

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>>52546890
Well, I've got this guy.

8. Simpulex, Carnal Bookkeeper

Enters from just behind the caster. Appears as an androgynous humanoid wrapped in a silk ribbon. Is extremely beautiful. If Simpulex touches a creature, it learns the creature's entire sexual history in graphic detail. Will attempt to seduce a suitable target it if not directly observed by the summoner. Uses poetry and flattery. If the target willingly kisses Simpulex, both the target and Simpulex vanish. The target never returns.

So... not quite 1/3.

>>52546465
>That was a shibboleth
One of those ooze things from Cthulhu?

>>52546986
Nah. Ancient Jewish sorcery for weeding out goys.

>>52544938
The way the treasure finding works: any time the PC searches, there is a 2-in-6 chance they'll find some mundane trinket of historical significance worth [lvl]d100 coins to the right buyer. This is only rolled in locations like dungeons, caves, lost cities, etc.

The bonus for donating I've decided upon is extra xp. Does not apply if the object is sold for profit.

>>52546880
>He-Man

I'm more of a Thundarr guy myself. That intro, man.

https://youtu.be/GFRZcC2JNhQ

>>52547501

That was pretty badass but nothing will beat He-Man when he does that transformation thing.

Dat echo effect. Gives me chills every single time.

>>52547618
True, but when it comes down to pure OSR inspiration I still think Thundarr is the 30 minute animated toy commercial of choice. There's a reason why ASE 1-2 is basically an unofficial Thundarr setting splatbook.

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>The bakhna rakhna generally will not kill opponents who have fallen in combat if the victims might serve as a future source of food to raid. If, however, any of their own are harmed, the bakhna rakhna’s retribution can be quite ruthless. They will use their sticks to poke a single hole in the neck of a fallen paralyzed victim and allow his blood to drain away while he is fully conscious. A victim bleeding to death will lose 1 hit point per round but will die in 2d8+15 rounds even if he has hit points remaining. The bakhna rakhna never leave injured or dead comrades behind.
>Bakhna rakhna have an insatiable curiosity and prefer taking other people’s food to hunting for their own.
>These small creatures live in forested areas and, while they can hunt and forage for food. do so only when in danger of starvation. They much prefer to live as scavengers, raiding neighboring settlements for the food and supplies they need to survive.

Why do people keep trying to re-invent goblins when TSR already made the best version of them?

>>52547751
>Not being inspired by the cocaine fueled binging of Thundarr, He-man, The Herculoids, Thundercats, Smurfs, Gummi Bears, and holy shit there are so many. But instead choosing one.

Ishygddt

>>52548129
I concede that is the true patrician choice.

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>>52546890
So what are the "cool" bits of Ars Goetia that I'm missing. It's mostly "This guy knows all the secrets of heaven and earth. He can also prevent your celery from wilting." "This guy speaks all languages and will teach you sorcery. You have to hit him with a stick though."

It reads like the author just ran out of ideas midway through, and scraped 20 good ideas into a film to cover 72 entries.

>>52547618
>That was pretty badass but nothing will beat He-Man when he does that transformation thing.
Well, there's always, "thunder, thunder, thundercats, ho!" Sure the show was crap, but that bit was always pretty cool. That and the intro.

https://youtu.be/z7bhdwcAnH0

>>52548336
>>52546890
>>52546578


Literally just steal the 3.5 Binder class.

>>52539328
Shields for plate tended to be for the varieties of plate that weren't as protective - the term is broad! - and even then were mostly useful as an extra layer of protection against ranged attack.

>>52548570
I remember the exact conversation where that guy got started on this.
He doesn't want a binder, he wants a conjuror dedicated to interesting but niche non-combat uses.

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>>52548570
Yeah, I'm going to give that a hard "no."

>>52540048
Have you read the bit where they steal a house yet, that is amazing.

Chabon's Gentlemen of the Road is pretty good and different. (Historical) fantasy about a pair of mismatched friends adventuring, one with a large, named axe decorated with obscure runes.

Also, go read some of the Dying Earth series.

Go get a copy of the Silmarillion and skip the opening for now, crack it open to Of Beren & Luthien, and read that.

Anything new from Sine Nomine as of late? Or does anyone know where they post news, because it sure as hell isn't their Twitter or website.

>>52548669
>>52548674
Wait. Maaaaaybe~ he's suggesting you steal the vestiges?

>>52548692
Isn't he working up to a SWN Revised kickstarter?

>>52546880
>Even Middle-earth did until Tolkien changed his mind
technically Middle-Earth does still have a connection to our world, Tolkien just made it a little more vague in the published version of LOTR

also good taste, He-Man is one of those franchises that makes for great OSR inspiration(similarly if someone wanted to run a OSR campaign in a setting similar to 20th Century Earth I'd totally suggest watching Real Ghostbusters for adventure and setting inspiration)

>>52548129
you do make a good point there

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>>52548701
Even then... it's not really what I'm looking for.

The binder things are, mechanically
Name
Requirement
Drawback
Buff

And the buffs tend to be the worst examples of 3.5 feat and ability crossreferencing. There are clearly optimal vestiges. There's no "fun" in them, no sense of mystique or awe.

Compared to:

7. Esilan, the Keeper of Hours
Enters in a shower of feathers. Appears as a floating hourglass orbited by wings. Can accurately and precisely measure any time interval it sees. Up to [dice] times per summon, can demand a single creature it can see "AGE". Target creature's age mirrors for [sum] rounds. A 20-year-old creature becomes 2 years old. A 92-year-old creature becomes 29. A 106 year old dragon becomes 601. This cannot directly cause a creature to die or suffer any damage, but it may affect HP or stats. If confronted by blasphemies, glows as bright as a torch.

or

12. Gemwick, Spell Tutor

Enters in a shower of sparks. Appears as a red humanoid the size of an acorn. Has a wizard's robe, hat, and staff. If a wizard sacrifices a limb or eye (of their choice), Gemwick will either teach them a new spell or improve (mutate) a spell they already know. Is respectful, but slightly bored of the summoner. Once per day, can summon 1d6 Limb Homonculi (as Apes, with 1HP), which are made from the fused limbs and eyes of wizards he has assisted in the past. The homunculi obey only Gemwick. Gemwick desires magical items, spells, and the shapely limbs of wizards.

Which is what I want to end up with, they just aren't that useful.

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>>52548129
>>Not being inspired by the cocaine fueled binging of Thundarr, He-man, The Herculoids, Thundercats, Smurfs, Gummi Bears, and holy shit there are so many.

Why the hell are the Smurfs and Gummi Bears in there instead of The Space Giants ( https://youtu.be/pg2-ZKvMrIQ ) and the Gatchaman-derivative of your choice ( https://youtu.be/tjuN5Bn-RCo )?

>>52548743
>not mentioning Pirates of Dark Water and The Black Cauldron

Shame on you.

>>52548870
I never understood the buzz about The Pirates of Dark Water, though maybe if I were a kid when it came out, I'd feel different.

>>52548870
>>52549178

I watched Pirates of Dark Water when I was a kid. Fun times.

Here, have some Korgoth of Barbaria:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaqjS_IvLpg

>>52548336
Preventing fresh food from spoiling is a big deal per-refrigeration! Not every demon has to be about unlimited cosmic power, you know. It's the small conveniences in life - think of the tremendous infrastructure expense humans spend for simple things like light, food delivered hot, and speaking to people very far away.

>>52546433
Wait, Mockman's done DEEP CARBON OBSERVATORY?!

>>52546880
Wilderlands is the best setting.

I have no less than two games going on in it. Though both draw from other stuff too.

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>>52531031

Here is the updated version.

What's the difference between regular and iron rations?

>>52551507
Regular spoils, iron doesn't.

>>52551507
To expand on what >>52551706 said while I was typing, iron rations are foods that are either long-life on their own or are treated to be long-life - jerky, bacon and salt-pork, certain cheeses, cereals, dried fruit, crackers/trail bread, that sort of thing. They're edible, and you can survive on them, but making them appetising takes a ton of work and skill.
Regular rations are short-life foods - fruit and vegetables, fresh cuts of meat, actual baked bread, eggs, milk etc. They're a lot tastier, and far better for morale when you can get them, but they're bulky, heavy, and they spoil really, really fast, so they're not suited for the kind of cross-country or underground trips that adventurers consider routine.

I love cantrips.

Why would any magic-user discard them? They make the non-adventuring life so much easier and more convenient.

>>52551844

I wouldn't know about 'discarding' them, but many people don't include them for exactly that reason. They make the setting feel more high fantasy and create a dissonance between the game's mechanics and the setting. If magic cantrips can be spammed so easily and have such uses (heat up food, flavor food, wash clothes, etc) why aren't all cooks and servants Wizards? Why isn't everyone a Wizard? Etc.

I'm not saying I personally think this is a big issue or problem, but I can see why people think that way.

>>52552024
Personally I find it perfectly reasonable that an accomplished and fully trained wizard could use magic to such simple deeds. The scarcity of magic can still be explained away in many ways: learning it would be difficult and dangerous and take a lot of time and patience, all manner of prejudice and racism, wizards being a jealous bastards who don't want to share their secrets with the common folk, etc.

Also magic is cool and if it existed everyone would want to do it, cantrips or not. And Unseen Servant would deal with most of those cantrip effects even if you didn't include them.

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Suppose the Renegade Crowns supplement on WFRP 2nd edition could be used for OSR borderland creation?

Is there a better system available out there somewhere?

Trying to round out my low-fantasy character class roster. I'm thinking maybe 9 classes ought to do it.

Here is what I got so far:
1) Fighter: hitting good and wearing armour
2) Barbarian: critting good and wearing no armour
3) Ranger: wilderness survival and beast mastery
4) Knave: stabs, stealing and subterfuge
5) Dungeoneer: specialist skills/treasure hunting
6) Cleric: anti-undead, anti-magic
7) Magic-User: Magic by way of Wonder & Wickedness

What kind of roles are missing? I don't really want to include warlocks, paladins, monks or druids, as they are pretty high fantasy. Though I was thinking of maybe splitting up cleric into a Solomon Kane/Van Helsing/Geralt type hunter and the more classic militant warpriest archetypes.

Thoughts?
The first person to be unproductive and suggest that "there should be fewer classes and the standard 4 (or 3 if you're extra grog) are perfectly fine" should cast themselves into the sea.

>>52552264
Maybe add a knight: you can have a low-fantasy heavily-armored chivalrous horseman without going all-out paladin.

Splitting cleric out between war priests and monster hunters sounds fine. Maybe a prophet too, but that's just me.

On the other hand, going by your own definition, I'd imagine ranger would be pretty high fantasy as well.

>>52552252
I asked the same thing a few months ago and never got an answer.

>>52552382
Huh. Well, that makes the two of us then.

>>52552288
No magic with my version of ranger. He's just a woodsman and animal trainer (like a houndmaster). I envision a Rambo style versatile survivalist rather than a Tom Bombodilian prancing friend of the forest.

As for Knight, that role is filled by Fighter. I could just call the fighter a Knight or Crusader or something for aesthetics.

A prophet/doomsayer might be a good one if I can think of a good mechanic for it. I'm steering away from the miracle worker cleric spells. The current iteration has no spells. The spells that fit the theme were retooled as either extra uses for the holy symbol or esoteric rituals.

>>52550493

Nice, looks like he folded the Cleric saving throws back in -- they were in errata at the end of v2. It's still missing some encounter tables, though.

>>52552264
You could go with the actual definition of druid, as in a nature-oriented cleric.

Also - maybe some socially-minded classes, likd minstrel, or aristocrat?

>>52539737
If I'm going to parry a blow, I'd much rather use a shield to take the blow than hold up my arm, plate or no plate.

>>52553725
Then you're doing it wrong.

>>52552252
Yes, it can. You don't even need to be familiar with WFRP, or even Warhammer, although it helps.

How do you run Deep Carbon Observatory when you are not native, have reading comprehesion problems, and your players want something not-so-constantly-bleak?
I mean I get it's supposed to be evocative and stuff, but...

>>52553853
Don't.
Run something else they'll enjoy a bit more.

>>52553765
I've played in a game of WFRP, and run one: it's probably how I knew to like Renegade Crowns for this purpose in the first place.

>>52553853
Read until you comprehend it or find workarounds to your reading problems, then change what you think would be to bleak into things that aren't as bleak.

>>52553725 c >>52553757
And remember:

If your shield gets wailed on, YOU WILL FEEL /ALL/ OF THE BLOW THROUGH YOUR ARM.

Usually how does attack bonus work with monster hit die? AB = HD seems a bit much, no? Not only does the 4HD big guy ogre have loads of HP, but he has a huge additional advantage as well?

>>52554422
That's pretty much how it works, yeah.

A lot of people in this thread are fucking boring when arguing about armor.

I will take the hollywood mythos over dull realism any day.

>>52554431
That seems pretty busted good. What if I soften it up by making the AB the square root of the HD? So AB 3 requires HD 9?

>>52554422
Ogres are pretty scary fucks, yeah.

>>52554487
So a lvl10 fighter with Strength16 will have +12 to hit, while the HD 9 monster will only have +3?

>>52554461
I like realism and learning new things and everything, and I feel the best balance of things is to know how it really works, yet choosing to ignore it if the result is more exciting and not terribly logic-shattering.

I love heavily armored sword&boards smashing their shields to someone's face.

>>52554531
What edition you play? In BX Fighters only get +1 each 3 levels.

>>52554487
Monsters are supposed to be MONSTERS. They have more hp, better bonuses, fuck-you-AC, immunities, huge numbers, poison-like effects, all that. And all that is fine and good.

Besides, HD = bonus keeps things simple.

>>52554634
I'll run it by the book, then!

>>52554422
>4HD big guy
4 U

>>52554542
>I love heavily armored sword&boards smashing their shields to someone's face.
I love moderately armored sword&boards smashing their shields to someone's face.
But I prefer heavily armored swordsmen straight-up tackling people.

>>52554981
alas, plate and shield is as much of a "classic fantasy" image, as the chainmail bikini.

>>52554422
>>52554431
In B/X, monster to-hit scales at the same speed as hit dice until after you reach level 7. Thereafter, it proceeds at half the rate. Otherwise really high-level monsters would be auto-hitting.

>>52554634
>What edition you play? In BX Fighters only get +1 each 3 levels.
Fighters improve their chance to hit every 3 levels, but it advances in increments of 2 or 3. Once you take into account the fact that this advancement lags (a fighter at level 2 or 3 has gained a +0 increase per level), a fighter gains an average of a bit over +1/2 per level (+.5612) when you look at levels 2 through 14.*

*If you count a fighter as having gained a level and +1 to-hit over a normal man at level 1, then the average gain is +2/3 per level (.6641) when you look at levels 1 through 14.