>Players who decide what type of character they want to play

>>52524934
>rolling for stats

>>52524950
>cheating at stats by just choosing what you want

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>>52524950
I bet you don't even roll for your starting spell when making a Magic-User.

>>52525073
yep.

>>52525026
>Cheating at the entire game by expressing free will outside the boundaries your DM has set.

>>52525112
>I'm so assblasted that I might roll low on my stats that I literally have to change the subject to project my fannyflaming onto someone else

>>52524950
It's quite simple, if you don't want to roll stats, nobody wants you in their game, snowflake.

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>>52525140
>I'm so autistic I can't continue the meme chain designed to derail this shitty thread so we can get talking about more important shit, like Szechuan sauce.

>>52524934
This is a non-issue in D&D 5e. The RAW suggests choosing a race & class before you even start rolling those 4d6 (or use point buy if you're a real pleb).

>>52525304
>autistic screeching
>but calls anyone else on the planet autistic

Wow, that really made me think

*sips le reddit cartoon*

>>52524934
>>52525351
Same with 3 & 3.5e

>>52525371
Are you this mad that samurai jack wasn't on on sunday?

>>52525294

I always find this kind of comment funny. In my experience of RPG's, across a lot of groups and systems, I've rolled for stats exactly once. When we were playing Maid RPG.

Aside from that, whether it was D&D or Dark Heresy or whatever, pointbuy and player choice driven character generation has always been the norm.

>>52525304
>>52525371
You're both autists. Especially >>52525371. I mean, asterisks? Where are we? GAYa Online?

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>>52525377
>>52525351

>>52525435
Y'know what? That's fair. Who am I to deny you your god given right to butthurt? Proceed.

>>52525429
>I've never played a real rpg just permissive numale rpgs that are written for people who will throw a fit and stop playing the instant they aren't "winning"

Wow, that really makes me think

>>52524934
but anon, I don't allow rolling for stats in my games.

>>52525434
technically I only have Aspergers, but I deliberately try and post rage inducing comments because I enjoy pretending to be retarded because I'm actually retarded and want to see shit flung, and it always works because /tg/ is just as stupid as me and can't stop replying to bullshit.

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>>52525487

>>52525507
Yes, but i was pretending I was pretending, which makes it meta, which is clever, because meta things are clever and anything repeating has to be meta, right?

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>>52525533

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>Rolling for stats
>Not rolling for origin too to determine your character's powerset
It's like you don't even want to have fun.

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>>52524934
>>52524950
>>52525026
>>52525112
>>52525140

I've never understood why people would want to "roll for stats"?
Doesn't, that, like- isn't that like using mad-libs to write your characters description?

>>52525627
>not playing fatal and rolling everything including your own haircut, religion, slutness.........

>>52525647
Mad-Libs allows for user input.

>>52525558
Hooray! I got a laughing loli pic on the Azerbaijani Beverage Dissemination Board. What do I do now?

>Player decides anything at all about their character instead of the GM rolling on 100+ different tables to design every facet of their character for them.

>>52524934
>Rolling for stats

Sure, I like standing behind the 18-everything wizard with my nice shiny 12 amongst a swarm of 8s and 9s.

>>52525647
>>52525673
>>52525703
>>52525715
>being so feminized that you don't enjoy the thrill of risktaking

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>>52524934
You roll for stats and then assign them freely you fucking caveman. Nobody assigns them in roll order anymore.

>>52525371
*teleports behind u*
Nuthin personnel, kidd
*sages*

>>52524934
>Not playing fighter with STR 8 because "but, muh rolls"
>not being incompetent INT 9 and WIS 10
>not wanting to be a bard with the lowest CHA of the party
You are a disgrace

>>52525822
>I might roll low!!!!!!!11

Infantile loser who has never had a single challenge in his entire life detected

>>52524934
So wait, are you trying to say that the numbers on the sheet are the most important parts of the character?
What are you, some sort of fucking rollplayer?

>>52525773
We go 3d6 down the line in this house son, no rerolls.

>>52525026
>>52524950
Obviously the best course of action is to decide what character you want to play and let the other players stat you, giving the DM final veto power

>>52526111
Man what a waste of digits. Should have used them to admit you won't play unless you have perfect stats

>>52524934
>Implying you faggots won't keep rerolling until you have all stats above 15

>>52526194
>you
>faggots
But we're the ones who DON'T want to cheat at our stats by just choosing high stats

>>52526243

You'll just find another way to dispose of characters with poor layouts, like suicide.

>>52526461
>I'd murder a character instead of playing it because I rolled low so I'd better project that onto you
Why is it that Marxists are always projecting? Someone should redistribute them some better people.

>>52526461
so THIS is the power of being raised in a country where abortion is legal

>players who get butthurt when npcs take couter meassures agaisnt magic
He went on a lengthy rant on how i made playing casters boring and how he should have played a meathead martial since ohh gm limits creative use of magic (aka I don't have it be an "I win" button).
No other caster complained like this guy and in fact he turned around and made several encounters easier, but nope he is dead set on that magic is shit since I try to put barriers.

>>52526604
>having bad players
Man I know the feeling, all of mine always used to throw a tantrum unless I let them choose their stats with some retarded "point buy" system. Needless to say I don't ever play with those losers anymore

I find it funny that so many people are saying it's "cheating". Point buy and standard array are officially supported and arguably more balanced. With some editions you're not even supposed to roll for stats.

Most games other than D&D don't have you roll for stats.

>>52526512

And this is the power of a single samefag.

>>52525073
CUT MY BAIT INTO PIECES
THIS IS MY LAST SHITPOST
BANIFICATION
IM TEENING
DONT GIVE A FUCK IF I POST WITHOUT MEANING
WOULD IT BE WRONG WOULD IT BE RIGHT
IF I GREW A PAIR TONITE?
NO CHANCE IN HELL THAT I MIGHT!
SPAMMING IS MY ONE DELIGHT
SERVER CONTEMPLATING SUICIDE

>>52526726
>it's only balanced if my stats are perfect

Wow, do you get a free diaper with that opinion?

Toon

Elite array or point buy is perfect for those who enjoy playing D&D 5e and 4e and to a lesser extent 3.5/ Pathfinder.

>>52526828
>Elite array or point buy is perfect for those cucked tantrum-tossing numales who enjoy playing D&D 5e and 4e and to a lesser extent 3.5/ Pathfinder.

FTFY and yes I totally agree, it is perfect for you (otherwise you'd throw a tantrum)

>>52526761
>standard array
>perfect
Not to mention, standard array and point buy allow for stats to be CONSISTENTLY imperfect. On my last character I rolled for stats. CHA and INT at 18 right off the bat, out of the rest the only one below 14 was Strength which didn't matter because it was for a fucking Warlock. I actually asked the DM if he was sure about it.

>>52526889
>I want to be guaranteed the stats I want
>And if you disagree I'll claim that I'm just trying to prevent myself from being too powerful

Wow, so THIS is the power of minmaxing shitbags trying to lie to get their way

>>52526933
Again, if I was a minmaxer why would I be arguing for standard array? Even point buy has limitations that make it inconvenient to that end. The only way you can end up with shit-your-pants great stats at the beginning is if you roll and get lucky.

>>52526981
If you weren't a minmaxer why would you be pushing for a reliable way to make sure that you get to put your minimum stats into things you don't need and your maximum stats into things you want? :^)

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>When I play an RPG I like hitting the Randomize button for everything

>>52527032
Standard array only allows for a mediocre overall lineup. With point buy you can't even equal the highest stat you get with standard array, and can't drop any stat below a certain point.

>>52527074
>When I play an RPG and don't get to minmax my stats I start posting a bunch of strawmen and screeching

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>>52527098
>I just want my min stats to be in the useless slots for my build order and my max stats to be in the absolutely most useful slots for my build order but it's not real minmaxing I'm actually doing you a favor

>>52527074
That's basically what Gamma World is, and it's great.

>>52527124
I see this is going to be futile

>>52527242
I see that you won't admit that you just want to min the stats you don't want and max the stats you do want without any chance of it going wrong

>>52527101
>When I play an RPG, I don't want to customize my character to fit an idea, or to try out a unique idea, I want to just fuck my shit up

>>52527339
>When I play an RPG, I create a concept for what character I want to play out of whole cloth and then roll my stats and gee whiz I end up mad! If only I had taken those steps in the reverse order everything would have been okay but fuck that better change the rules.

>>52527369
>When I play an RPG, I wanna impose pointless rules to myself and risk making a character that is completely unplayable and unfun to play as rather than take time to hand craft a character that I intend on investing time and effort into playing

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>>52526194
I'm dming a game where 1 player got a character with 4 stats below 9 and insisted that he keep them.

>>52527418
>playing the game as intended is pointless, why can't I just minmax my stats however I want?

so THIS is the power of being a numale who's never worked a day in his life

>>52524934
Come on /tg/ you're better then this

>>52527481
>Playing a game designed to let you do whatever you want is playing it wrong, it's supposed to be played randomly, with everything left up to chance, don't bother putting any care into your character, it's just a random pile of bullshit after all
So THIS is the power of "That Guy", whoa...

>>52527481
>>playing the game as intended is pointless,
I don't understand. In 5e you pick class and race first. Then you either roll 4d6 drop lowest and assign in any order, or you take the standard array, or you use the variant rule for point buy. It's all intended. It's literally just preference between taking the safe route or gambling for that chance at higher main stats.

>>52527515
>Playing a game as intended is wrong, if I can't cheat to get the result I want then I'm going to throw a tantrum

Wow so THIS is the power of pitching a little fit until you get what you want

>>52527491
No, we're really not. We're impotent children in the bodies of men that argue incessantly about the smallest and meanest of details while sitting in a pile of our own shit.

And any of you who'll say I'm just projecting.... consider that we're over 70 posts into this thread.

>>52527526
>in the newest and most permissive version of D&D ever printed people are allowed to cheat now because people were just going to do it anyway so that proves me right

All it proves is that nuD&D was written for numales

>>52527549
>If it's not chosen by random rolls of the dice, then it's cheating. You're not allowed to consciously choose anything, it all has to be decided by a roll of the dice
Wow so THIS is the power of being an uptight cuntwad who dictates everything his own way and anything outside of his ruleset is "wrong and not allowed"

How long are we supposed to keep this up?

>>52524934
>using some speshul-snowflake stat generation instead of what's in the book
I bet you use some shitty fantasy heartbreaker setting too, faggot.

>>52527600
I dunno, how long are you going to go without admitting that you just want to minmax your characters?

>>52527632
I dunno, how long do you think my life span will be? I think a week after that ends I'll admit it.

>>52527561
Can I just phone in on this one, post Lorem Ipsum, and have you treat it as an autistic spergpost explaining why everything you say or do is wrong? Ok, good.

Your rapidograph pens are fucking dried up, the x-acto blades in your bag are rusty, and your mind is dull. Stop clicking your mouse, get messy, go back to the basics and make something fucking original. If you fucking give up, you will achieve nothing. When you sit down to work, external critics aren’t the enemy. It’s you who you must to fight against to do great fucking work. You must overcome yourself. Design as if your fucking life depended on it. Someday is not a fucking day of the week. Widows and orphans are terrible fucking tragedies, both in real life and definitely in typography. Saul Bass on failure: Failure is built into creativity… the creative act involves this element of ‘newness’ and ‘experimentalism,’ then one must expect and accept the fucking possibility of failure. Nothing of value comes to you without fucking working at it. Fuck. Sometimes it is appropriate to place various typographic elements on the outside of the fucking left margin of text to maintain a strong vertical axis. This practice is referred to as exdenting and is most often used with bullets and quotations. Form follows fucking function. The details are not the details.

>>52527561
But 3.5 allows for rerolling, while 5e doesn't. Sounds like you can't even get your pussy straight.

>>52527600
>>52527632
I'm just waiting for you two to start making out.

>>52527655
>literal autistic screeching because he can't handle the truth
kek

>>52527652
Why not bro? I'm just some guy on the internet, what's it going to matter if you just admit that you want to minmax your characters?

>>52527699
But you're the rollplayer who only cares about stats.
Why else would you want them to come first?
Who fucking cares how they're generated?
The fact that you care about them so much means that they're more important to YOU than any other part of the character. That you have this overriding NEED for the numbers to be important.
Who the fuck CARES? This is a roleplaying game. They're just some fucking numbers. High or low it doesn't make that much of a difference.

>>52527768
>autistic screeching
lol just admit you're minmaxing my dude

>>52527676
No, it's just I know you're full of shit, so I'm not going to bother with conceiving a full argument, or putting the effort into write it. I'd rather win the lazy way by simply having the last word and posting autistically.

Think about all the fucking possibilities. Creativity is a fucking work-ethic. Nothing of value comes to you without fucking working at it. Design is all about fucking relationships—the relationship of form and content, the relationship of elements, the relationship of designer and user. Can we all just agree as the greater design community to stop fucking talking about Comic Sans altogether? It’s getting fucking old. Learn from fucking criticism. To go partway is easy, but mastering anything requires hard fucking work. Must-do is a good fucking master. A good fucking composition is the result of a hierarchy consisting of clearly contrasting elements set with distinct alignments containing irregular intervals of negative space. Someday is not a fucking day of the week. What’s important is the fucking drive to see a project through no matter what. When you design, you have to draw on your own fucking life experiences. If it’s not something you would want to read/look at/use then why fucking bother? Sometimes it is appropriate to place various typographic elements on the outside of the fucking left margin of text to maintain a strong vertical axis. This practice is referred to as exdenting and is most often used with bullets and quotations. Use your fucking hands. This design is fucking brilliant. Fuck.

>>52527699
Because that's assuming I want to have a boring character and not something with flaws and strengths specifically chosen by myself to fit an idea.

>>52527673
I'm trying man, but he's being a frigid bitch

>>52527786
>continues screeching because he can't handle the truth

>>52527811
>if my snowflake doesn't match the fanfic I've written for it I'm going to throw a tantrum
so THIS is the power of being raised in the nintendo 64 generation

Jesus Christ, I'm not sure which board has the lowest average age anymore. /v/ or /tg/?
You're all fucking manchildren, especially you, samefag. Go rope yourself.
Useless NEETs like you should just end it all.

>>52527812
>continues screeching because he's a spoiled rich white NEET who can't accept that other people do their own shit and his opinion is irrelevant
>>52527852
>and he's an oldfag
Hang yourself, gramps.

>>52527812
No, see I'm just some guy that can post text. My only goal is to have the last word. I don't care about what you were discussing, I only care about winning. Besides, you get your (you), I get to win, and no one else has to deal with either of us. It's a complete win-win.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aliquam elementum, quam non auctor tempor, massa ante pretium orci, sed dictum neque tellus ut enim. Quisque ut volutpat elit, et aliquam elit. Phasellus lacus massa, viverra nec eros eu, dignissim suscipit ante. Praesent imperdiet nibh a sem finibus, id feugiat urna posuere. Maecenas ac orci eget risus blandit mollis. Aenean aliquam mollis faucibus. Praesent suscipit est augue, eget egestas orci consequat quis. Vestibulum imperdiet ut velit vel commodo. Maecenas sapien risus, molestie et hendrerit eget, fringilla a lacus.

>>52527876
>continues screeching because he's fucking furious that he never has and never will play a legitimate character that didn't have cheated stats

Damn, I didn't actually stop to think about how that must feel. That's fucked up man, I'm sorry.

>>52527919
Hang yourself gramps.
No one will miss you.

>>52527919
Hey, not that guy, pay attention to me, no one else. Only I can provide the autistic bullshit you desire so.

Curabitur laoreet ut risus sit amet convallis. Quisque et condimentum nisl. Fusce mollis viverra risus in elementum. Aenean accumsan diam neque, non pretium ex maximus et. Quisque vestibulum pretium finibus. In ultrices tempor orci, id mattis velit semper non. Ut ex ex, maximus ac justo in, consectetur tincidunt dolor. Praesent dapibus nulla at nunc eleifend interdum. Duis rhoncus tincidunt tincidunt. Praesent eu imperdiet lectus.

>>52527941
I know now that you're just lashing out because you're in pain. How terrible it must be to realize that all of your adventures, all of your fun times, all of the stories you've told and experienced have all been as worthless as beating a video game with cheat codes?

I'm sorry, my friend. I didn't realize how badly I had hurt you.

>>52527993
You and I are quite alike.
I'm getting off on this anger and retardation, just like you.
Difference is that I could not be angered by anything you say, whereas you are probably panting like a dog, face all ready, your 500 pound NEET body quivering.
You're cancer.
Everyone hates you but there's no cure for you either.

>>52527993
Hey, try being the apologetic troll towards me! My ego is entirely dependant on people paying attention to me, and I'll reply to everyone of your posts because I'm bored as fuck.

Phasellus a sapien sed enim sollicitudin imperdiet. Cras vehicula massa mattis nulla facilisis, quis pellentesque leo pellentesque. Integer sit amet neque ullamcorper, mattis magna in, placerat velit. Quisque maximus ipsum in nisi congue, at euismod eros mattis. Pellentesque tristique lacus id sapien euismod, luctus porta lacus hendrerit. Integer odio arcu, scelerisque et elementum sit amet, semper et ligula. Aenean suscipit sapien felis, quis mollis nisl aliquet at. Orci varius natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Praesent facilisis laoreet mi, vel efficitur nulla tempus eu.

Hey, where'd gramps go?
Considering how many chromosomes he has, I thought he would have responded in less than a minute.

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I use the Elite Array.

Awwww, did the fat NEET manchild leave already?
Come back, I'm not done bullying you~

>>52528166
I... I could pretend to be offended senpai. For reference I'm the Lorem Ipsum Shitter and this guy:
>>52525487
>>52525533

Or would that feel too disingenuous?

>>52525647
It's a fun way to fire up the imagination when you're not sure what kind of character you want to be.

>>52528211
Jesus, was this just a conspiracy the whole time?
Every poster but me is you?

>>52528241
I'm me. I think.

>>52525294
I have been playing for many years, and none of my groups have ever rolled for stats, nor expressed any interest in doing so.

>>52528248
You a schiz m8?
Bipolar?
You doin' okay?

>>52524934
My new GM did something for our new game
rolled for basically everything.
Age, class, height, weight, race, powers

Everyone was just completely randomized.

I loved it. Having to make a character around this made me come up with a more unique and fun character
The party doesn't feel generic, and instead creative and complete
GM says it also helps people be more invested in their characters, but haven't been around long enough to know if thats true

>>52528241
Well, there's 40 posters in the thread, apparently. Assuming no shenanigans occurred, that means about 2.5 posts per poster. But most were OP or one of you two, I only made two prior myself, and a lot of people likely only made one post and then OP autistically screeched at them

>>52528276
I had the opposite experience when one of my GMs did something similar. Nobody actually got attached to their characters whatsoever.

>>52526755
>CUT MY BAIT INTO PIECES
fuck

>>52528248
>>52528241
>>52528265
I am he as you are he as you are me
And we are all together

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>>52524934
>>52524950
Wow, /tg/ went full retard over this.

In my opinion it depends on the game. Some games pretty much require you to use random character generation. Nothing wrong with that. But some games are better off without it.

>>52525351
>The RAW suggests choosing a race & class before you even start rolling those 4d6 (or use point buy if you're a real pleb).
You're dumb if you roll for stats in 5e. Same with 4e and PF/3.5.

>>52525715
>I can't have fun when the other players has one single stat better than me.

>>52528501
Not him, but I get him. Played a roll game where my high low stat was 13 - 8
Other player was 18 - 14

You're right in that roleplay and talking stuff was fine and fun, but coming to combat and skill checks he just did everything

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>>52528241
>All of 4chan is just one anon arguing with a hyper advanced chatbot built by google

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>>52524934

>People who roll up stats entierely unsuited for their intended role and pick that role anyway

>>52525429
That's the more modern approach that's more user friendly while at the same time lessening the "fun" in the opinions of some older players who grew up with having to role for stats. Some people enjoy designing things while others enjoy having to improvise and adapt to conditions they have no control over, why can't you guys just get along?

>>52525627
>you rolled mind breaker and gravity controller
>aw sweet!

>and you rolled cockroach and plant
>what the fuck? This game is stupid!

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>>52528949
No, it's one of the most terrifying origin stories ever.

>>52525767
>risktaking
lol, what risk?
its a tabletop roleplaying game
you're not in any sort of danger, you aren't risking anything except time
also its not like tabletop rpgs are actually difficult in any way so you aren't challenging yourself either
you should try playing competitive games buddy

>>52527876
> spoiled rich white NEET
>rich white
Woah were in the fuck did this come from, this board really has been taken over by regressive leftists. Just watch at how much they all sperg out at me even daring to use that term (sorry I couldn't think of a better one, but you know what I mean).

>>52527961
My god /tg/ really does have just the most unbearable faggots on it.

>>52528984
It'd be weird if you got cockroach and mind coercer together, they'd just mind control people into being lazy slobs who never clean up after themselves.

>>52529043
>I have no understanding of the word risk beyond a single specific definition
Nice work public "education".

>>52529127
no man, i'm sorry, but every definition of risk implies you putting something on the line
literally the only thing you could possibly "lose" by having bad stats in a tabletop rpg is time

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This entire thread is under arrest

>>52529169
Yeah you don't really understand what the definition of the word is. They're "risking" having bad stats, that is a perfectly valid use of the word risk. There doesn't have to be high stakes for it to be a risk. Here I'll show you

>risk
>A possible, usually negative, outcome

Rolling bad stats is both possible when rolling and also negative in nature, that's all that's required for something to be a risk. The fact that isn't a particularly negative outcome (although I can't help but think the people ITT passionaltely arguing against rolling your stats to avoid this outcome shows that isn't entirely true) is irrelevant. I risk getting rained on if I leave the house on a cloudy day without an umbrella, does that mean I'm saying I'll die of hypothermia because of that? If someone puts five cents in a slot machine they're still taking a risk even though they'll only lose five cents, at worse.

>>52529231
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/risk

If we can't even agree on what simple English words like risk mean how are we ever supposed to discuss anything? Is /tg/ just going to be an autist screeching into a human face forever?

>>52529231
no man, i'm sorry, but "risking" having bad stats isn't risking anything
because at the end of the day you're still playing a tabletop roleplaying game
you can't win or lose it because it's not competitive so who cares if you have bad stats or not? what you roll literally doesn't matter

I used to think rolling for stats was fun until i was forced to play a character with only one stat above 8. It was a 10 so it literally just didn't give me a negative modifier. Was not fun.

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>>52528910
>Telling the dude who isn't starting shit and isn't throwing buzzword insults to get along with the faggot that has been berating everyone on a personal game choice

>>52528223
But most people know what they want, so nobody needs to roll for stats.

>>52529301
Quit being such a Nicholas Cage Molester.

>>52529301
>bothering to respond to the obvioulsy more unreasonable person
I'm not going to try and get blood out of the stone. And I know how you guys love to act like the autistic screeching is all one sided but it never is, the choosing stats guys haven't been that great either (just look at this >>52528073
unbearable faggot).

>>52529268
>no man, i'm sorry, but "risking" having bad stats isn't risking anything
Okay so you don't agree with the definition of a simple English word. Have you got any source to back up this idea that risk necessitates danger?

>because at the end of the day you're still playing a tabletop roleplaying game
You don't think recreation is important, you just want to be some drone who works, sleeps, eats and does nothing else? What we do for pleasure is what defines us, it's what motivates us to do all the other things so we can continue doing the things we like, how can you just dismiss out of hand?

>you can't win or lose it because it's not competitive so who cares if you have bad stats or not? what you roll literally doesn't matter
Because it could make the game less enjoyable if your stats are excessively low or high, as other people have explained. The game isn't about winning or losing (what games ultimately are) it's about how you play it.

>>52529454
>Because it could make the game less enjoyable if your stats are excessively low or high, as other people have explained.
no, i'm sorry, but this isn't a risk. because like i said, a tabletop roleplaying game isn't competitive. which means there's zero actual penalty if you fail.
basically the dilemma you're pushing is "oh boy, i can either have the stats i want and have fun or not have the stats and not have fun!" but there's literally nothing preventing you from just getting rid of an unfun character and making a fun one
so once again what are you risking? because all this boils down to is "either take more time to have fun or less time" but wasting time is the point of recreation anyway so you succeeded no matter what

>>52529533
I give up on you, you don't even understand the language apparently. Please tell me it's not your native tongue, please tell me you're some mistaken foreigner who needs to focus more on their english lessons. This is just getting embarrassing.

>wasting time is the point of recreation anyway
Yes, that is exactly what the point of recreation is and nothing else, it's just for wasting time. Go stare at a wall for five hours then if that's really what you think.

>>52529578
nah, friend, you're the one who can't seem to understand anything
i make my argument as clear as day and you still can't comprehend it? i guess that's what i should expect from someone that actually thinks something as dumb as rolling for stats is a risk in any way

>we are going to make the same thread
>EVERY
>DAY
>until you like it

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>caring how other people theoretically play their fantasy make-believe games
Hmm...

>>52529727
Indeed. The mere thought that someone is having badwrongfun gets my extra chromosomes up in hackles.

>>52524934
>rolling stats
>in a game with a wildly different attribute system than pre-3E D&D

>>52526755
Nice

Bro, it's fine.

If you're playing AD&D, just roll 4d6 drop low and assign to taste.

If you're playing 3.x or later, just point buy it.

Let's get this fucking show on the road so I don't have to listen to you bitch about your stats anymore.

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>>52530346
My group uses a method for rolls that I haven't seen anywhere else. It's "3x(3d6), pick highest of the three" six times, then assign freely. The curve is pretty similar to "4d6 drop lowest", but many of the poor outcomes are shifted toward the middle instead, with exceptionally good scores almost just as rare.

>>52527422
Quality RPer, to be sure

>>52524934
if its fun, you know

and if you are really uppity, roll randomly, distribute manually to have both randomness and agency

>>52525767
>>52525767
>being so feminized you can't make a decision and rely on the dice to make one for you

that sword cuts both ways

>>52524934
>roll their stats
Yeah sure assfag I sure enjoy being a dead weight for the party because the rolls didn't feel like being helpful today

>>52529322
>But most people know what they want, so nobody needs to roll for stats.

Do they, though? I know I'm the kind of guy who will play any kind of character. Only real problem with stat rolling is that dice can just plain fuck you over by giving shitty rolls all-around. But hey, I played WFRP as a beggar so I know what that feels like.

>>52527422
If the entire universe is a simulation and I'm just a PC in some godlike-creature's DnD game, then the person role-playing as me kept those same stats.

Rolling for your Race/Class/Archetype/*other shit that isn't just fucking numbers* randomly is a lot better at giving you ideas when you have none than rolling random stats.

And also tends to be more balanced.

>forced to roll for stats
>roll low on everything

>>52531466
embrace your low stats
play up your complete incompetence for as much laughs as you can think of, win the day like shaggy and scooby by bungling your way around

>>52531477
fuck off

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>>52524934
a player of mine rolled insanely high stats and reduced them for better roleplaying and more fun

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> the entire argument of pro-"obligatory rolling" fags is "muh minmaxing"
You realize that your numbers on the character sheet mean absolutely nothing?
As a GM, I will simply adjust the challenge TNs and encounters accordingly. Numbers have zero meaning, especially in a cooperative game, where the fact that I have better or worse stats than the guy sitting next to me doesn't matter.
>b-but I don't want your character to outshine mine!
You realize that the whole point of RPGs is, well, roleplaying? I'm not throwing encounters at you just to challenge you and make you roll dice, I'm here to create a situation to which you can react, basically, to create a situation where you are allowed player agency, a meaningful choice regarding the overall narrative you incidentally create.
It's not like it's a competitive wargame or something.

Welcome to Whose Turn Is It Anyway, where everything is made up, and whether you rolled or used point buy, and what you rolled simply doesn't matter!
As long as your character is interesting and creates interesting situations, I simply don't care.

>>52531560
thread over, lets go home
dont forget to sage

>>52531560
>adjust
>struggle against kobold with my low stats
>dangerous creatures needs to be crippled to handicap me

>>52531579
> >adjust
> >struggle against kobold with my low stats
> >dangerous creatures needs to be crippled to handicap me
I'll just choose different creatures instead. A kobold will be a midboss or something in your case.
What, you thought low-power campaigns didn't exist? You never played a party of level 1 commoners, dying to the rats in the basement?
You see, power is relative - the absolute value of your stats simply doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is their relative value in relation to TNs I set.

>>52531598
If I want to play as a fucking loser in a game, I would just live my own life instead.

>>52531560
>You realize that your numbers on the character sheet mean absolutely nothing?

It's more about the player's perceived notion of value compared to other players who rolled better stats.

>>52531613
And that's fine. That's your choice.
The same can be said in reverse too, yknow? Because power is relative, in a game about gods even the character with the lowest stats possible is still a god that is capable of things that the mortal mind cannot comprehend, much less hope to actually perform. What matters is context.

>>52531643
In what? Being someone's bitch or token gay guy?

>>52524934
>First game
>Want to make a wizard
>Roll for stats
>9 INT
>DM sees my roll
>Look him in the eye
>"I'm a wizard."
>Make a wizard.

>>52531598
What if the rest of the party rolled well though?

>>52531660
that's perfectly valid. people always assume their character is GOOD at his job.

>>52531653
>>52531643
>>52531613
>>52531598
Fuck Homestuck and this particular character.

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>>52524934
>rolling stats

>>52531653
Whose bitch?
Again, as a GM, I am the ultimate tyrant - I decide who gets the spotlight, and if you can roleplay, you can be sure you wil succeed at more shit than the local minmaxer, because I simply won't make you roll (like I'll make the minmaxer roll, but that's neither here, nor there) - I'll simply let you succeed without rolling if it's something the roleplaying can sensibly solve, like puzzles, or investigation, or social interactions, or planning.
Moreover, even if you fail the check, that doesn't mean you actually failed to progress in the game - you merely failed a check, so instead of something that YOU WANT to happen, something that I WANT happens, and believe me, I have no intention on intentionally ruining my players' fun if everyone at the table is having a blast.

>>52531771
What you are saying isn't even necessarily entirely wrong but holy shit you sound like a pretentious cocksucker AND you are missing the point entirely.

If you are just going to go ahead and fix whatever the rolls did, why the fuck even roll the stats in the first place? Fuck, why don't you just run some stat-less system? At this point it's just carrying on a tradition.

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>>52527101
>>52527339
>>52527369
>>52527418
>>52527481
>>52527515
>>52527526
>>52527561
>Playing an RPG

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I think Traveller is neat.

Whether or not a game is good with rolled stats depends on the system. Something with high lethality is better with rolled stats because you aren't likely to have time to get attached to one character

>>52531802
It's not like I exercise my prerogative and constantly fix the rolls. I'm just saying, if you are a great player, chances are you won't need great stats to have fun at my table.

Also, I've long since graduated from making my players roll for stats.
Nowadays, it's either them bringing in pre-made characters and we discuss them for about twenty minutes before the start of the campaign and players change their characters accordingly - with their consent, of course (hell, I've never vetoed a character concept at my table - just changed the specifics to fit the setting), or players showing up for the first session and me giving them a selection of characters, which are tailor-made for the setting I have in mind and players establishing their personalities and backstories in media res.

It helps that none of the players at my table were tremendous faggots, and that I was polite and patient when dealing with them.

>>52525294
I don't want to be in a group of powergamers either so it's a win win I guess

>>52525715
In the first real campaign I ever played, we used 4d6 drop lowest to roll for every stat. It didn't bother me since I like playing an underdog, weirdo, or specialist.

I ended up with a pretty broken Orc Fighter. We're talking 24 STR, 19 CON, 18 CHA... his lowest stat was 10 DEX. Literally the best stats in the party.

Sure, it was exciting at first. And I did get to seriously kick ass on various occasions. But being the jack-of-all-trades war machine in an average group was fun for a session and quickly got kinda lame.

I kept wondering if my success was due to smart choices or high stats, and that aspect of the campaign soured my fun a bit. We use point buy now, and my new character isn't as powerful, but I feel like I deserve all my successes this time.

>>52531551
>For better roleplaying and more fun
Didn't know that if you had a high number on a stat your fun and roleplaying abilities decreased

>>52524934
>Gm doesn't let make chars beforehanded
>Only allows roll on order
>Complains when the group has no perceptive guys, no healers and no stealthy characters because rolls didn't favor those stats
Man, why the great majority of Gms with silly rules like that complain so much when stuff doesn't work the way they intend?

>>52524934
Taking into account that absolutely every GM I encountered in my 12 years playing rpgs asked for at least 1 page background beforehanded, I think you're in the minority and you should inform your players of your rules before the game

Also rolled stats are a 50/50, and both group call the other minmaxers, this is fucking silly

>>52531691
Are you mad about Karkat's arc, anon?

>>52530393
Oh hey, my group uses this too. It'd pretty good.

>>52525474
RPGs aren't about winning or losing. I play TCGs and war games when I want to be competitive. I play RPGs mostly for an interesting narrative. Interesting narratives can include characters dying. I think dice add an important aspect of randomness when the narrative is being build.

I just prefer my randomness once the game begins rather than in character creation.

2d6+6

4d6-low, in any order, with the option to scrap the whole thing if you roll below a 6 because majorly deficient adventurers in a cutthroat fantasy world won't make it to 1st level. Though getting a female player with -4 Strength was funny to only me.

>>52531971
Isn't everyone mad at this character's arc? Only Tumblr and Reddit love him as gay shipping bait.

>>52532001
Pretty sure, yeah. And even on tumblr anyone who isn't a Davekat fangirl is pretty pissed. Most people I know from there are pissed about it regardless of whether they ship or not.

Also, to be a bit more on topic, is it just me or does Homestuck sound a lot like a campaign? Complete with the GM having That Girl as his favorite player and dissolving the group at the end because he stopped caring.

>186 REPLIES
>26 POSTERS
>ctrl-f 'stormwind fallacy'
>0 hits

You guys should educate yourselves.

>>52525647
>Doesn't, that, like- isn't that like using mad-libs to write your characters description?
Why would you post like this? Are you retarded?
And there's nothing wrong with rolling for stats if it's part of the game.

>>52532185
eyyy, I'm shitpostin 'ere!

>>52532185
Just assume 99% of these kinds of threads are shitposting

>>52531477
Except I can't, because instead of bumbling away and hiding I crash through the hallway and get shanked to death because of my -3 CON modifier.

People say that stats don't matter but it kinda does when a single bad stat can kill your character (like 6 constitution on a D6 hit die character). And when your character dies you literally stop having fun.

>>Hey anon. I rolled a 16 for strength for my barbarian. I think I'll put that into strength.
>The faggatron that is OP whips his head around, the mass of flesh stuck to his many chins jiggles and sways.
>His eyes widen and his Cheeto dust covered lips open in exclamation
>"MMIIIIINNN MMAAAXERRRRRRR!!!!!!" The feral blob screams in rage
>He cries and shouts while flinging piss-filled Mountain Dew bottles and drool covered dice across the room.

>>52532696
Me as the GM

>>52525435
>saved for later use
Hey, you got to use it pretty quickly. I'm... not remotely surprised, really.

>>52525026
Is it really cheating when the game offers point buy and arrays as viable alternatives though? Because, rolling only works if you're playing one shot where the character has no longevity.

>>52533082
Troll anon is an autist so logic and reasoning don't really apply.
I mean by his logic the GM is cheating when designing encounters because he doesn't roll on a random encounter chart or he changes the rules on some monsters.

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>>52525647
>>52528223
>It's a fun way to fire up the imagination when you're not sure what kind of character you want to be.
This is true.

And if everyone does it, it can be a fun game too.
I find it good for some one-shots.
I once set up a particularly dangerous dungeon for an existing party and had the players run it with rolled chats first.
This way, rather than me just having an NPC tell them a story about the danger, they could experience it first hand and I could surprise them with deadly traps without killing characters they've worked on and grown attached to.
They actually chose to run it a couple times with lower level randoms until one player wanted to try it with his main PC.

>>52529322
>But most people know what they want, so nobody needs to roll for stats
>Most people x, so nobody needs to y
Most is not all, anon.

Besides, the other day, my SO and I were buying sausage and I asked if we should get the maple flavored kind.
They replied, "Why would you ever *not* get them?"
I answered, "What, are you gonna never eat what isn't the best? Sometimes I get the spicy round kind even though it's my least favorite."
This seems relevant to this thread and it's arguing over flavors of rpg.

>>52531394
>Do they, though?
This
Pic related

>>52527267
Not him but explain the purpose of playing a High INT/CHA, low STR/DEX Fighter when a) I'd deal shit damage and be unable to take a hit worth a damn (making my class abilities worthless) and b) I'd still end up being shittier on average than a Wizard in INT or a Bard/Sorcerer/Warlock in CHA?

If you don't want min/maxing, run games where the stats are just flavor text.

>>52525715
>thinking a perfect 18 character is best used for a wizard
you don't play from before 3e do you? Sad!

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>>52533132
Also not that anon, but:
>Not him but explain the purpose of playing a High INT/CHA, low STR/DEX Fighter
Sometimes it can be fun to play the smart, wise-cracking, and charismatic guy who thinks he can fight contrasting with the bad-ass efficient fighter.
Pro tip: It is actually possible to enjoy the game even if another character in the party is better than you in any aspect.

>If you don't want min/maxing, run games where the stats are just flavor text.
>implying the false dichotomy
Not that anon, and not booty bothered by min/maxing, but implying you need to get rid of something in order to prevent players from doing what you don't like with it is silly and ignores all the reasonable middle ground.

>>52525773

>assign them freely

tell me again how before you were born, Arceus asked you if you would prefer to be strong or smart.

please explain your obvious decision to be neither

>>52526194
>>52526461

my current 2e campaign has a fighter with 5 constitution. He is a favorite among the party. Don't need stats to be good son. The most important factor in determining fun and usability of a character is HOW CLEVER THE PLAYER IS AT THE GAME.

>>52532185
>Stormwind fellatio
Is this when a terminator rips your dick off with a stormbolter?

>>52533390
>Don't need stats to be good son.
This.
My gnome paladin was great and enjoyed by the whole party.

>>52533390
>>52533431
>GM made encounters easier but I think I'm good

>>52533363
>Pro tip: It is actually possible to enjoy the game even if another character in the party is better than you in any aspect.
The point I was going for was that there's no reason to actually play a high INT/CHA, low STR/DEX fighter when the game doesn't give fighters a reason to ever invest in those particular aspects. A fighter's job begins and ends with DPR and the classes that actually benefit from high INT/CHA would easily trounce him in those aspects if things came to blows.

It's not like in ShadowRun or WoD where you can build whatever the fuck and still get the same benefits as long as you have enough ranks/dots, in games like D&D, a Fighter can only be viable if he has high STR/DEX and CON because there aren't any options that would allow him to benefit from his high INT/CHA.

Especially with how class proficiencies work.

>>52533418
No but when the Eldar Sorceror suddenly finds a Terminator in her anus, thats what we call Deep Strike

>>52533367
>Arceus
You have to go back!
>>>/vp/

>>52533475
I AM the GM. Each party member has nearly died several times. Most encounters aren't easy at all, but clever use of inventory and terrain in the dungeon, they manage to survive.

The halfling had to be retired because he took so many different injuries that he was at severe risk of becoming debilitatingly scarred and damaged.

Last session, the party was plunged into darkness in a flooded dungeon section fighting a FLOATING (no footsteps to hear) beholder-kin. The party cleric happened to have bells on string in his inventory and threw them here the enemy was, entangling him and giving the party a clear sound marker to attack.

Clever play > any statistics every single time

>>52526889

Question, what method were you using to roll that?

Because I, personally, roll 3d6, and the highest I've ever rolled when making a character was two sixteens and a fifteen, and even then I had an eight. What are you rolling, 4d6, drop low, reroll ones and twos?

>>52533502
Eldritch Knight needs int, but Fighters are for multiclass only

>>52533529
sorry, *gnome.
not halfling.

>>52533390
>Don't need stats to be good son
>While playing an edition where the stats mattered the least
Well fuck, I guess they don't matter when they're practically flavor text anyways.

>>52533534
Anydice.com see 4d6 drop lowest there for distribution

>>52525647
I wanna do this, now. Someone fill in the following:

Name
Thing
Family member
Race 1
Race 2
Occupation 1
Occupation 2
Emotion
Location
Adjective 1
Adjective 2
Adverb

>>52533553
not my fault you want to play the magic the gathering era of the game where it was literally designed around making correct and incorrect power-gaming decisions at chargen.

could it be that you want powerful stat control/to never have disadvantages because your choice of game indicates that powergaming is what you WANT out of your rpg experience?

>>52533475
>implying that shit was easy
The GM actually told me they didn't pull their punches.
Relax, let go of your need for elite stats and a whole world of gaming opportunities will open for you.

Playing a game by only ever doing what you have decided is optimal necessarily limits your experience to that tiny, myopic avenue.
Open your eyes.

>>52533574
You are full of shit

>>52533538
>Eldritch Knight needs int, but Fighters are for multiclass only
If a class is only good if you combine it with a better class, it's an overall pretty shitty class. At that point, just take the Fighter's progression and just make it a base for each fucking martial character.

>>52533132

You... know you roll stats BEFORE you choose your class, right?

If you roll high INT/CHA and low STR/DEX you can pick a number of things that aren't fighter.

>>52533572
So I guess you do need stats to be good when they actually matter.

>>52527670

>playing 3e/3.5

kek, me good sir.

I only do pointbuy in systems where EVERYTHING is pointbuy. Y'know, games like Shadowrun, where 90% of everything isn't derived.

2e is also ideal for rolling stats because they aren't as important. You don't get +5 for have 20 strength, you get +3 to hit and damage for 18, I think. the drop down and rise up for each stat is way less notable compared to later editions.

>>52533615
read >>52533502

>>52533502
Not gonna read the reply chain, so tell me:
Are there any Int or Cha based skills that can be used by any character in the system edition being talked about?
I know not all skills are class based.

If a fighter can literally only ever use Str and Dex, then yours is a fine point.
But I can think of lots of uses for Int & Cha that aren't limited to class.

>>52533593
>You are full of shit
No, I'm withholding elements of the story that would better serve your position better than mine.
There's a difference.

>Playing a game by only ever doing what you have decided is optimal necessarily limits your experience to that tiny, myopic avenue.
>Open your eyes.
This remains true.

>>52528356

it varies by party and player group, obviously. I'm a big proponent of rolling, but I can recognise that a lot of people just don;t find it fun. I wish they'd admit they weren't "holding themselves back" and what they really want is consistency, but I don't really mind it.

I'll always say that randomly rolled stat arrays make more interesting characters(and don't get me started on the randomly generated backgrounds book), but I don't hate people who disagree.

Usually.

These troll threads always amuse me, because the rollfags are so pointedly blind to the fact that rolling can get you far better stats than pointbuy ever could, and outside of the groggier ones never talk about rolling down the line so they can't even use 'putting the good stats where you want them' as an excuse.

>>52533562
Here's the lib. I'll check back later to see if I got anything exciting.



I am [Name]. My family is a long line of [Occupation 1]. We have lived [Adverb] in [Location] for generations. Things were great until a group of [Advective 1] [Race 2] attacked to steal our [Adjective 2] [Thing]. Those rotten [Race 2]... They killed my [Family member]! I feel so [Emotion]... But I'll return the favor. I'll find them and show them what a [Race 2] can do! I have sense cast aside my tradition. No longer am I a [Occupation 1]. I have trained under a new master to become a [Occupation 2]. With my newfound skills, I shall meet my goal and reclaim the [Thing]!

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>Going down the list
>Rolling for stats then choosing the attribute
A true patrician rolls the stats, then rolls to decide which attribute that stat goes to.

>>52533828
that makes no sense.

>>52533828
>A true Scotsman
This entire thread of arrogant pigs and their deluded self-righteous squeals are sickening. Every single opinion garbage.
>>52533705
No it does not. You are assuming left and right and your autism is showing.

Do whatever the fuck you want but stop thinking yours is the only way

>>52533828

"3d6 roll each stat in order" was the law of the land until 3.0 so no, I think that makes you a plebian who can't handle roll in order.

>>52525051
I bet he doesn't even roll for starting HP

>>52533890
I bet you don't even roll for every single letter in character name

>>52533656
>Are there any Int or Cha based skills that can be used by any character in the system edition being talked about?
Arguably, INT and CHA skills are some of the most useful skills in the game.
>I know not all skills are class based.
Even if you can technically use a skill untrained, you're going to be limited by how high you can take that particular skill due to it not being a skill that your class is expected to know, which means that you'll always be half as effective as someone who DOES have that particular skill as a class ability.

Even in 5e, the difference between having proficiency and not becomes fairly noticeable due to bounded accuracy, and the difference between having proficiency and expertise is even more noticeable than that.

>>52533772

there's actually a book for doing basically this, you can roll your entire background, I rolled up a guy who went into the military, got a lot of glory, but was in a losing battle and got enslaved. He tried to stage a rebelion but it was put down and he was punished severely, eventually he managed to escape on his own, and he went back to the military, but things had changes, and he could only find dishonour now, until eventually his entire unit was killed, and he was the only survivor. It's amazing.

Central Casting, Heroes of Legend, look it up.

>>52533629
when you pick a system that is built around powergaming as a primary design goal, then yes. If thats what you like about RPGs, I suggest you start righting "Dragon, Level 100" on bits of paper then cross them out. Very fulfilling for you. Maximum power display.

>>52533909

why are you acting like that one's unreasonable? I'm not a big fan of rolling for starting spells, but rolling for starting HP is just... that makes sense?

>>52533869
I point out that by limiting yourself to only playing one way, the way that you have determined is the most optimal, you are have a only a narrow range of play open to you
>Do whatever the fuck you want but stop thinking yours is the only way

Put simpler:
You are missing out on other ways of playing by playing only one way
>stop thinking yours is the only way
The irony intensifies.
If you are trolling, you need to be more subtle.
If not, you need to read posts before replying.

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>>52533909
I bet you don' event roll to determine whether or not you should buy dice.

>>52533959
I wrote my background using a Choose Your Adventure book once, good times.

>>52528466
>You're dumb if you roll for stats in 5e. Same with 4e and PF/3.5.
>I want my abilities to be capped at 17 even with racial bonuses
Have fun with your wizard who is still only 19 intelligence by level 7. Point buy simply further enforces variant humans in 5e since you have no real means to get very high ability scores until late game anyway you might as well just say fuck it and leave your main ability scores at 14 while getting a feat.

>>52533964
It's not power-gaming to have stats that actually matter anon, it just means that it's a fucking game, rather than low-key freeform.

>>52533946
>you'll always be half as effective as someone who DOES have that particular skill as a class ability.
Agreed.
Hence:
>>52533363
>It is actually possible to enjoy the game even if another character in the party is better than you in any aspect.

Thanks for answering my question.

>>52525627
>Rat swarm
>Felinoid
What?

>>52533964
oh I see. well if it isn't about powergaming optimization, I'm sure you'd be perfectly happy to roll stats in order. Afterall, its a rollplaying game. You're a pro, you can play any character well enough even if he has a few major flaws, right? Flaws that you didn't strategically pick to never actually hinder you? Flaws you didn't plan for?

>>52534013
INT 19 wizard is considerably more intelligent than 99.99% of all humans who ever lived. I'm entirely okay not being able to play higher than that until late game.

>>52534085
was meant for >>52534025

>>52534013
>Have fun with your wizard who is still only 19 intelligence by level 7.

Yes.

That's the point.

The max caps are lower and the starting points don't allow you to max them soon, so characters fit a curve.

> you might as well just say fuck it and leave your main ability scores at 14 while getting a feat.

This is a HUGE fucking noobtrap.

>>52534030
In a game like D&D, "half as effective" is synonymous with "you're not going to beat anything that's supposed to be scaled to your level."

I can take being less capable than someone whose class is designed to be good at INT/CHA, I can't however take the fact that not only would I be shittier than someone else in utilizing INT/CHA, but I'd also lose out on a shitload of class abilities that I would otherwise have if I bothered to buff my STR/DEX.

If I can't be as effective at utilizing INT/CHA as the wizard or the bard in their respective areas, even though we have the same stat value, then what's the point of even investing in those stats as opposed to the stats that the game expects me to be good at due to my class?

>>52534179
Try playing a reasonable game, like New Traveller, that forms your character through the choices you make and your luck
Oh wait, D&Drones will only ever play D&D because they can't ever dive into the deep end of other systems

>>52534085
>>52534119
There's a reason why games like ShadowRun and WoD use point buy for character creation while games like CoC or Paranoia have you roll stats.

You use point buy when you want to design a character that can pull their weight consistently over the course of the campaign and can synergize with the rest of the party.

You use rolled stats when your game has high lethality so that you can get back into the game as soon as possible, but usually in games with rolled stats, even if you roll high, you're still considered the bottom bitch in any situation where you're fighting something with more tenacity than a goomba.

It has nothing to do with power-gaming or min/maxing mate, if I wanted to have the best shot at getting the highest stat possible, I'd just roll my stats and hope for an 18 or something and orchestrate my own death when if I roll shit.

Then again, I'm not a power gamer so point-buy ahoy.

>>52534217
>I can take being less capable than someone whose class is designed to be good...
This is a perfectly valid and sensible opinion and position.
There are others who can take it, and might even enjoy it.
Party on.

>>52534424
Did you not even bother reading the rest of my post?

>>52534436
Yes I did, thank you.
It did a very good job of supporting your position with a reasoned argument.

I merely stated that there may be those that would have a different view.
Perhaps they would consider the point of investing in those stats to be remaining true to their vision of the character and enjoy playing said character, despite the mechanical problems.

Is this the most autistic thread on /tg/ right now?

>>52533875
No it wasn't. Nearly everybody did 4d6 drop lowest, arrange to taste.

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>>52524934
>Not starting with all 10's and having stats organically grow as you use them, at DM discretion.
>2012+5

>>52535045
>everybody
>my personal group of friends

these are not the same thing. The primary way of statgen, both in use among a wide portion of the playerbase, and in the actual written rules, was 3d6 in order until WotC fucked everything up.

>>52525434
Because /tg/ is full of one true way autists. Their way is superior and all other methods are shit

>>52534677
Which is all well and good, but the point of contention lies in the fact that D&D is decidedly a game based around the numbers.

A Fighter with shit STR is straight up never going to succeed at anything past a certain point of play and his above average INT/CHA will never properly scale either because he lacks the ability to utilize them as well as classes that were designed around using those stats.

You can certainly play a smart and charismatic Fighter who sucks at fighting...but at that point you're not only throwing off the balance of the campaign but you're also taking away resources from your party members, who now have to cover your weaknesses as well as their own.

If you like playing worthless characters then that's your prerogative, just realize that you're also ruining the game for everyone else at the table by doing so.

>>52534998
Nope, /pfg/ still exists

>>52524934
>this guy hasn't read basically any rulebook character creation process
>this guy doesn't want his players to get the idea that no character survives interaction with the system unscathed into their heads from the start

>>52535401
>you're also ruining the game for everyone else at the table by doing so.
Not necessarily.

The other players actually liked my gnome paladin more than I ever would have expected.
They repeatedly chose to save her instead of letting her make a heroic sacrifice for them to escape, despite me being 100% okay with the death and it, overall, not being the most tactical decision.

But making a "worthless" character without regard to the kind of game everyone else wants to play could certainly lead to ruining the game, absolutely.
That would be a shitty thing to do.
Everyone being on the same page is the most important thing.

>>52527549
>Playing a game as intended
What if I play games that aren't made by retards and you are actually intended to not roll for stats?

>>52535573
>Not necessarily.
No, you really are.

The damage that you're not dealing as a Fighter forces the party to invest more heavily into damage. The damage that you're not avoiding due to having shit DEX forces the healer to waste cure wounds healing you, which means that you're not only draining their resources but also making so there's less heals for everyone else.

Even if the party doesn't necessarily mind carrying you through the game, it doesn't change the fact that the party would've been much better off as a unit if you'd decided to invest in higher than average STR/DEX instead of INT/CHA, especially since the game rewards you for doing so.

>>52535739
Draining their resources & the party otherwise being much better off as a unit =/= ruining the game
Not being a better unit =/= ruining the game
Not necessarily.

But I've explained this.
And you either know this and are ignoring it or you are actively refusing to see it.

>>52535975
>Draining their resources & the party otherwise being much better off as a unit =/= ruining the game
>Not being a better unit =/= ruining the game
At that point, why even be a party in the first place, especially in a game where party cohesion is the difference between life and death?

>>52536156
>why even be a party in the first place, especially in a game where party cohesion is the difference between life and death?
Are you asking why there should even be a party if the party is not operating as the best possible unit?
Really?

Sub-optimal =/= universally unacceptable

>>52536791
I think the question is more like why a party of supposedly badass adventurers keeps dragging your basically useless ass around when they could just hire mercs from your share of the loot.

>>52536896
Clearly it's because:
1. They're not nihilisticly pragmatic douchebags
and/or
2. He's just that Intelligent and Charismatic.

>>52534034
It's from the 7th edition of Gamma World, which in my opinion is the best thing to come out of D&D 4e. Also that game allows you to have a completely random character that can still contribute to the party.
>Each origin is tied to an ability score
>You get an 18 in the score relating to your primary origin and a 16 in the score relating to your secondary origin. All other stats are rolled 3d6 in order
>Your powers still scale off your origin's ability score. If you're a felinoid, you're never going to have below 18 dexterity
>Then you have Alpha Mutations and Omega Tech, being like spells and magic items that change constantly so you're not spamming the same powers over and over
Granted, for a high fantasy game this probably wouldn't be the best way to do things, but for a zany gonzo game like Gamma World it's perfect.

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>>52537001

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>>52525073
>posting image for glorious GATE OF BAITALON
>for stupid mongrel Unlimited Bait Works

mongrels get out reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>52536791
I'm asking why even be a unit if the parts that make it up don't work with one another?
>>52537001
>1. They're not nihilisticly pragmatic douchebags
If you're going into a dungeon to fight monsters, it's not being nihilistic or pragmatic to want someone who is capable of guarding your flank at you side, as opposed to a worthless scrub who contributes nothing to the mission yet still takes a cut of the profits.
>2. He's just that Intelligent and Charismatic.
He can't be THAT Intelligent or Charismatic if there's a Wizard or a Bard in the party that already covers that niche to a better effect than your shitty Fighter ever could.

Worse still, we'd still need someone to deal damage and soak up hits to cover the niche that you're incapable of fulfilling.

>>52537069
>I'm asking why even be a unit if the parts that make it up don't work with one another?
They do work with one another though.
They just don't do it as well as another configuration would.

An all barbarian party is not as well rounded of a configuration as others, but it can still be good.
Fighter, Wizard, Thief, and Phil can still be good.

A sub-optimal level of working together =/= not working together at all

More importantly, their reasons for being a party are in no way based on being the best unit to dungeon delve.
Nobody picks a Scottish orc greengrocer to go adventuring with, but if you hand him a flamethrower, you might be surprised.

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>>52537069
>>52537257
>Nobody picks a Scottish orc greengrocer to go adventuring with, but if you hand him a flamethrower, you might be surprised.

>>52524934
Please tell me you're only referring to class and not the actual character concept

>>52537257
An all peasant party could still be good too, but I don't see anyone going out of their way to play dirt farmers staving off the effects of famine and desentry.

An all Barbarian party only works if the DM purposefully avoid putting in shit that would take advantage of their garbage Willpower, but then if he does then the players aren't earning their victories either.

Fighter, Wizard, Thief, and Phill also won't last, because phil can't hit, can't take a hit, can't cast spells, can't sneak, and the group doesn't have a healer to stave off injuries while supporting the party.

I mean, you can still work together but the game would run a lot smoother if everyone was going in with with the same relative power level as one another.

>>52537728
The game is not running as smooth as it possibly could =/= the game is ruined

>>52537811
Well yeah, because either the DM has to play with the kid gloves to not immediately murder the party or he risks killing you all the moment he tosses enemies who are trying to win.

Can't throw in enemies that deal psychic damage or target WILL saves anymore because everyone's a fucking Barbarian.

Can't throw in too many enemies without giving players a chance to rest because Ted is fucking worthless and the group has no dedicated healer/supporter and they only have one front-line fighter.

Can't even throw too many goblins at the peasant party because then, they wouldn't be able to hit them and the goblins would just wreck face.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

>>52537889
>Do you see where I'm going with this?
Yes.
Clearly you're supporting my earlier statement that the most important thing is that everyone is on the same page.
Thank you.

Let's go back to this post:
>>52537728
>I don't see anyone going out of their way to play dirt farmers staving off the effects of famine and desentry.
Your belief that no players have any interest in playing average people just trying to survive.
This ignores players that choose to play games that do just that.

>only works if the DM purposefully avoid putting in shit that would take advantage of their garbage Willpower, but then if he does then the players aren't earning their victories either.
Your belief that the DM presenting only challenges that can actually be overcome means that the Players haven't earned their victories.
This ignores that many GMs present winnable scenarios to their players, otherwise the PCs would always flee or lose.

>because phil can't hit, can't take a hit, can't cast spells, can't sneak, and the group doesn't have a healer to stave off injuries while supporting the party.
Your belief that a warm body is only a liability in combat and that the party requires a dedicated healer.
This ignores countless options, such as Phil carrying potions and practicing first aid to help the PCs in battle.

You continue to express your beliefs that the party must be what you consider to be the best it can be, while ignoring the possibility that other parties could be just as enjoyable to someone who is not you.

Other players have other beliefs.
Your beliefs are not fact nor
are they universally held.

Is this thread still fucking going, Jesus Christ it's been like a day and a half

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>>52524934
>allowing RNG to dictate what you play
Real life already exists. I don't need RNG to give me another role that I'd rather not play.

I'm foreverdm, so this is a problem I eliminate.
>well i got assigned a high y stat, guess i have to play x
Fuck that. This is a game. Play whatever class you want and assign your stats wherever you want them to be (no take-backs). It's not minmaxing. It's creating the character similar to the archetype you wish to play instead of allowing the ENTIRE tabletop-rpg experience to be decided by dice. Some people want to put their 18 into charisma as a Barbarian, but that's their choice to make.

>roleplaying means playing roles you don't want to for entire campaigns
fuck outta here

>>52538332
>This ignores players that choose to play games that do just that.
Just as you're ignoring that D&D is decidedly not a game that focuses on that.
>This ignores that many GMs present winnable scenarios to their players, otherwise the PCs would always flee or lose.
There's a difference between being winnable and putting on the kid gloves and playing super happy baby town frolicks because you know that one mass suggestion or dominate and the party is screwed. If we're operating off the logic that the BBEG is trying to murder the party, sending dudes who don't immediately hit them with will saves is not fulfilling that purpose.
>This ignores countless options, such as Phil carrying potions and practicing first aid to help the PCs in battle.
So now the party has to spend gold just to make sure that Phil is useful? Also, why can't literally anyone else carry potions and practice first aid? The Rogue would probably be better at it thanks to them being skill monkeys.

>>52538632
>Just as you're ignoring that D&D is decidedly not a game that focuses on that.
But people can play D&D in ways that it is not intended on focusing on or that you disapprove of.

>There's a difference between being winnable and putting on the kid gloves and playing super happy baby town frolicks
That false dichotomy.

>Why can't literally anyone else carry potions and practice first aid?
See
>>52537257
>their reasons for being a party might be in no way based on being the best unit to dungeon delve.

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>>52524934

>>52539171
>But people can play D&D in ways that it is not intended on focusing on or that you disapprove of.
They can but it's in spite of the system, not because of it.
>That false dichotomy.
There's no false dichotomy here, if you make a party that's easily hard countered by one strategy, but the DM doesn't exploit that weakness while playing as the antagonist, he's not actually challenging you, he's just using the kid gloves so he doesn't cause a party wipe.
>See >>52537257
Still doesn't explain why Ted is even in the party when his usefulness can easily be covered by another character. Anyone in the group can carry potions and anyone with some investment can put ranks into medical. This isn't the make a wish foundation chief, if Ted expects to be a member of this party, he needs to justify his existence in a way that doesn't require me to pay money out of pocket.

This rolling vs pt-buy bait thread seems a lot more viscous than it normally is.

You anons doing ok?

>>52525656
and to the plebians who use the computer generator

Pussies

>>52525941
>3d6
Hahaha, fucking d20-2 or bust you fucking faggot

>>52533367
okay, so you don't have those stats when you're born. You train them and thats how you get there. It's why we write backstories.

I rolled stats for a rogue and in his backstory i explicitly describe his natural keenness to do feats of dexterity as sub par, but through years of training and practice he achieved higher levels of dex than the common man.

unless of course you're playing F.A.T.A.L. and your character is an infant or has went 20+ years of their life doing fuck all and then said "Let's go adventuring"

>>52533630
Thats because original and 2e assume your PCs are normal people and are just a little more trained than a commoner, while 3-4e you're a god and 5e you're a god to commoner's

>>52539514
>They can but it's in spite of the system, not because of it.
Agreed

>There's no false dichotomy here
Yeah there was

>if you make a party that's easily hard countered by one strategy, but the DM doesn't exploit that weakness while playing as the antagonist, he's not actually challenging you, he's just using the kid gloves so he doesn't cause a party wipe.
Technically, not being able to kill a tarraesque would be a weakness, so you're saying any GM that doesn't throw one at the party is using kid gloves.
It's an extreme, but it makes my point.

>Still doesn't explain why Ted is even in the party
Because Ted happened to be in that tavern that day, because he was jailed with them, because he's best friends with a PC, because he knows plot important thing x, because of literally any reason he's in the group besides it being carefully assembled to achieve a task.

>>52539640
>>10% chance per stat to die at character cration
Good job introducing infant mortality rates to your game, I guess?

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>>52537038

I'm sorry anon, you fell for the bait too.

>roll low on stats
>GM has to rig my rolls to make me feel good

>>52533562
Before I read the spoiler:
>John
>Sword
>Father
>Orc
>African
>Plumber
>Banker
>Rage
>The Woods
>Metallic
>Hardened
>Gently

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>>52524934
>not rolling for and then assigning stats
Why though?
>there are people who like having no input into what there characters are
>there are people who like manipulating point by point what there characters are and want things to be "equal"

>>52533367
>he didn't spend time he could have spent studying outdoors play athletically
>he thinks that growing up didn't let him do some amount of assigning stats

>>52539640
>Characters can come out with the intelligence of animals
>when your hp is the same as your level
Holy fuck that's great
I want to play a totally retarded or frail character just to see how long I last.

ITT: pure concentrated autism
This isn't even the fun kind of autism that lets you do silly crazy shit, this is the boring annoying kind that makes you lose friends for stupid shit.

>>52524934
>having stats in the first place
get a load of this faggot

>>52540047
>It's an extreme, but it makes my point.
No it doesn't. I'm not even the guy you're arguing with but using that extreme as an example is not making your point.
A party of barbarians was the example, all with shit will saves. Suddenly NO ONE in the world uses charm or enchantment magic on the PCs because they would fail. That's using the kid gloves.

>>52542562
I am John. My family is a long line of plumbers. We have lived gently in the woods for generations. Things were great until a group of metallic Africans attacked to steal our hardened sword. Those rotten Africans... They killed my father! I feel so enraged... But I'll return the favor. I'll find them and show them what a Orc can do! I have since cast aside my tradition. No longer am I a plumber. I have trained under a new master to become a banker. With my newfound skills, I shall meet my goal and reclaim the sword!

>>52531560
>You realize that your numbers on the character sheet mean absolutely nothing?
Shit GM detected.
>As a GM, I will simply adjust the challenge TNs and encounters accordingly.
Ultra shit GM detected. You would understand exactly why this is a stupid argument if you bothered to think for five seconds. You think you can neuter the challenge for your BMX Bandit and not let Angel Summoner run roughshod over it without deliberately handicapping himself?

>>52543235
My point is that there is lots of things in the world that your party has zero chance against.
It could be dragons, psionics, will saves, or Chick Norris.
The fact that, out of all the things that could wipe the party out that you aren't throwing at them, one could be handled by a differently configured party is irrelevant.
A party with a psionic could defend the party against a psionic enemy.
Therefore, are you playing with kid gloves if you don't put them against a psionic enemy they have no defence against?
Because another party could handle it?

>>52540047
>>52543432
>Technically, not being able to kill a tarraesque would be a weakness, so you're saying any GM that doesn't throw one at the party is using kid gloves.
>My point is that there is lots of things in the world that your party has zero chance against.
The thing is, whether or not you encounter a terrasque or a dragon or a psionic is dependent upon the campaign that the DM is running and their absence wouldn't raise many eyebrows because they're supposed to be rare in comparison to creatures like goblins, orcs, gnolls, or lizardfolk.

If a team of Barbarians rolls into a mage college looking for trouble and nobody uses any spells that would easily take them out by targeting their will save, especially low level spells like "Hold Person" or "Charm Person," then the DM is deliberately playing with the kid gloves because he knows that if he did that, he'd hard counter the entire group and cause a TPK.

The fact that this needs to be explained you is sad and pathetic.

>>52543548
Not him, but doesn't that depend on how common mages are? Sure, finding no mages in a mage college is impossible, and sure Megacities will have some mages. But how many small villages, landscapes and wildernesses will you need to search to find a mage?
As a possible counter to that guy: are creature based "spells" also resisted with will?

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>>52528265
I am thou, thou art I. Now stop being a fucking faggot and smash the card.

>>52543432
>this
having a team that can protect itself/attack anything is useful, but also limiting. they cant specialize in anything but "raw damage". I let my players work together on their character builds.
if they wanna be a vampire hunting group, i throw mostly undead at them.
dragon hunters dont go after an orcish horde, their setup is designed to go after one LARGE opponent, not hundreds of smaller ones
i ran an inqisition group one time that hunted psions. guess what, they didnt go after elementals.
every once in awhile, they have to do something that throws them out of their groove, but there is always another group of adventurers that are gonna handle the temple of elemental evil while we are going after strahd.

>>52543548
>If a team of Barbarians rolls into a mage college looking for trouble
Well then, that's tugging on Chuck Norris' beard, innit?

>>52543630
>Not him, but doesn't that depend on how common mages are? Sure, finding no mages in a mage college is impossible, and sure Megacities will have some mages. But how many small villages, landscapes and wildernesses will you need to search to find a mage?
Mages are just the most common source of spells but that doesn't mean that they're the only ones who can cast mind-altering abilities.

The DM wouldn't be able to use any monster effect that would target the Barbarian's will, which includes everything from mind-altering effects, to enchantments, to illusions, to saves vs. fear, charmed, death, etc.

If you warp the entire world so that none of these creatures or spells so much as touch the party, then you're not actually challenging them, you're playing with the kid gloves because again, Barbarians can't save for shit vs. anything that forces them to roll a Will save.

>>52543829
>If you warp the entire world so that none of these creatures or spells so much as touch the party, then you're not actually challenging them,
Why do you need to warp the world to keep a few barbarians from encountering enemies that would crush them?
Don't the barbarians get any choice in where they go and who they fight?

>>52543706
So if the entire party decides to become nothing but troll hunters who specialize in fire magic, does that mean that they just never encounter anything that isn't at least damaged by fire?

If the entire party was comprised of monstrous races, would that mean that civilized races no longer exist within the setting and everyone they meet is another monstrous race to sidestep the whole racism thing?

If the entire party was comprised of Monks, would every monster take a -10 penalty to everything so that the monks can actually FoB them without suffering from their decisions for being a Monk?

Because if that's the case then there's literally no wrong answer and the party isn't actually being challenged for their decisions and the world itself will always warp around their preferences so it doesn't matter how they build their characters for the most party.

>>52543935
>Why do you need to warp the world to keep a few barbarians from encountering enemies that would crush them?
Because most of the bloomin' monster manual is full of creature abilities that specifically target will saves and most spells in the game will ALSO target will save. I'd also need to ban certain races as well since they also get abilities that can target Will as well.
>Don't the barbarians get any choice in where they go and who they fight?
They can, but if they don't want to get dunked on, they can only afford to fight monsters that are also combat beasts.

>>52543957
Is the false choice here: "If the party is specialized, either the GM has to warp the entire world and eradicate any dangers that they might not be 100% specialized against or they must encounter the enemy they are weak against and be crushed into dust."?
Just checking.

>>52544103
Not him, but do you see the problem here?
"We're fine until we meet an enemy that can cast mind control magic, then we are definitely fucked"
Either the GM doesn't let you meet these enemies (warping the world) or he lets them, you meet one and you are fucked (crushed into dust)
In a varied party you may meet the enemy and still have a chance to win or at least flee (with some enemies)
In this loadout you fight until you meet such an enemy and then you lose

>>52544103
An imbalanced party is at the mercy of planned obsolescence.

Either the DM goes out of his way to warp the world so that they never encounter anything that targets their god-awful will saves, or they encounter these creatures and end up in a TPK.

At least in a balanced party, they'd only have to worry about one character getting hard-countered by something that they meet along the way but in an imbalanced party, you're basically at the mercy of the DM, who has to play with the kid gloves or cause a TPK.

Crippling overspecialization is a thing y'know.

>>52544216
>In this loadout you fight until you meet such an enemy and then you lose
The same is true of Chuck Norris or the tarraesque.
If your party doesn't have an answer for them, why bother having a party?

Again, the most important thing is that everyone is on the same page.
If everyone is cool with barbarian adventuring, why would the GM choose to throw killer will saves at them?
For "realism" in D&D?

>>52544415
Problem with that is that while cutting out Chuck norris or a tarrasque is fine since they are rare, there are MANY things that can cast WIL resisted spells and cutting them out makes for a VERY different world
It's like them not being able to swim, so you remove every lake, every river, etc.

>>52544273
>An imbalanced party is at the mercy of planned obsolescence
Balance is still overrated.
My whole point has been that playing with Phil the Poorly Statted can still be fun and a fine choice.
The same is true of the all barbarian party.

Only an autist stands up and says, "No! You can't have a sub-optimal or imbalanced party because it ruins the game!" when they aren't even playing in that game.

>>52544415
>The same is true of Chuck Norris or the tarraesque.
Which is one specific enemy that's rare vs. a plethora of monsters, races, spells, and abilities that you'd need to cut out just for the Barbarian party to remain viable.

>>52544490
>It's like them not being able to swim, so you remove every lake, every river, etc.
Desert Barbarian Adventures!

>>52544539
>My whole point has been that playing with Phil the Poorly Statted can still be fun and a fine choice.
Yeah, if the party doesn't mind carrying him through the campaign, doesn't mind paying for him to be useful, and the DM plays with the kid gloves on, he's certainly a "fun" and "viable" member of the party dynamic.

I wouldn't stand up and go "this isn't balanced" but I will raise the question "how come we only fight like two encounters before getting a short rest, even while we're in the middle of this dangerous tomb where dangerous monsters should be on patrol?"

I'd also ask "so what happens if Phil is separated from the party?"

>>52544614
>"so what happens if Phil is separated from the party?"
"you are now connected to Phil with unbreakable, unremovable chains"

>>52544543
>>52544490
>>52544273
>>52544216
>>52544041
Barbarian Quest for the McGuffin of Greater Mass Will Save Defence!

>>52544595
Quicksand
magical quicksand

>>52544659
So now we're railroaded into carrying this glorified NPC around with us in an escort mission with no ending?

>>52544692
THERE IS NOTHING BUT PHIL
EVERYTHING IS PHIL
I AM PHIL
YOU ARE PHIL
THIS GAME IS PHIL
PHIL IS LOVE
PHIL IS LIFE