Warmachine/Hordes General WarmaHordes

>>52523504
>Def 12
You mean like what a Titan should be?

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>>52524403
But dey is efelants anon

>>52520901

>Retribution

Everything (or close to it) in faction works. Multiple playstyles, lot of options, great internal balance.

>Convergence

If recent tournament results are taken as gospel, the best faction in the game. Very limited on choices, though, as they're a limited release faction, and will get little-to-no more models.

>Skorne

Strong now, lots of options, most of the faction is functional now.

>Minions

Competitive but limited options, and of those limited options only a handful are particularly good.

I'd suggest Retribution, as it's just *good* and has a lot of things to do -- if you like the aesthetic, at least.

Convergence and Minions are perfectly fine, you've just got a couple of core builds, and that's all you'll play.

>>52525142
I'd pretty much agree with this.

If you're choosing between these factions, Ret is the way to go. Their state as a faction, in terms of balance and ability for variation, is the bar that all other factions should be measured against. Additionally, they're about to get a fuckton of new releases.

I guess if they have one problem, it's that, if you like following the fluff, Ret often feel sort of... off to one side, I guess, of the main story. They tend to be doing their own sneaky thing, and while it's important to them, it often feels like their plot is a sideplot compared to the stuff with the human factions of Warmachine.

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I've played plenty of Menoth and want to start Legion, but one look at Kryssa (and then listening to some podcasts), I want to avoid the starter box like the plague. I know I want Fyanna 2 to be one of my lists, would she be a good warlock to build up with and get some learning games with? Are there any others that pair up well with her (I don't understand JVM's Rhyas list)?

>>52526689
>would she be a good warlock to build up with and get some learning games with?

Yes. Everything she does is very good, but also very easy to understand (+3 DEF feat, +3 damage spell, etc.). She does a good job of using Legion's strengths, rather than trying to shore up weaknesses.

>>52526689

Abby2, and Lylyth3 would be good warlocks to pair with her. Abby2 runs beast heavy like a champ, and Lylyth3 has some good shooting and brings her own anti-shooting tech.

JVM's just playing Rhyas because he gets off on silly shit and is having fun with her and Proteus getting some weird attack vectors.

>>52523504
Do we have the new Command books in the file collection anywhere?

Anyone have a PDF of No Quarter 71?

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>>52527879
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ic7ql04ncu0gkd8/AAAn_bJIdgJD7Nl__r6uGEwxa?dl=0

Theres my dropbox with the most recent NQs, Also there's a bunch (all) of IKRPG content that I cut from NQs and separated into their own pdfs for convenience.

>>52528096
Thanks

>>52526689
A list similar to what JVM runs with Fyanna2 in Oracles can work well for Kryssa. Just shuffle out the Angelii and extra Sorc and Hellion and toss in four Neraphs, Azrael, Black Frost Shard, and a Succubus. Kryssa is not a very exciting or personally active warlock most of the time but she has a lot of mobility and her feat turn can be monstrous if timed well.

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>>52528096
Did someone say THICC girls of WMH thread?

>>52527879
It's in the OP Anon.
>Mk3 Trollbloods Command
http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/1tLOuOW7/file.html
>Mk3 Protectorate Command
http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/LToez2J8/file.html
>Mk3 Circle Orboros Command
http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/dAMPtJKy/file.html
>Mk3 Cygnar Command
http://www104.zippyshare.com/v/aG3otFxu/file.html
>Mk3 Legion of Everblight Command
http://www93.zippyshare.com/v/cJMBctzR/file.html
The Cryx and Khador Command Books aren't available for purchase as pdfs yet, which is how I've uploaded the others. When they become available I will do so.

Question:

Man-O-Wars

Yay or Nay?

>>52528813
Shocktroopers+UA+MoWK can be a good package with some casters such as Kozlov and Strakhov2. Bombadiers and Demo Corps probably need as-yet unreleased UAs or rules tweaks to be worth it most of the time.

>>52528832

>Strahkov

Arm 25 on feat turn?

I wonder if spamming them could be effective?

>>52528788
Merci.

Friendship ended with Vinter. Julius is my king now.

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>>52528813
So far, shocktroopers are the only viable version. Two ways to run them:

1. Vlad2, Kozlov and Irusk1 can run the whole boat with Officer and Kovnik to make them mobile enough to get shit done.

2. With Irusk 2, you can use a max unit without further upgrades to put a unit Rifle Corps directly behind them and use them as protection while they shoot things to death. In a pinch, the Man-O-wall can be enhanced with Battle Lust to fuck up a heavy.

>>52524702
>Titan are 12/19
>Skorne is joined with Minions as the worst faction

>Titans go to 10/19
>Apparently this is fine and Skorne is now better because of it

>>52531626
>one unit has worse defensive stats, therefore every other change made to the faction does not exist!

Wew,

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>>52531626
>skorne crier
>post errata

>>52528813
Invest in manowar stock before theme comes out. If fang theme is anything to go by, it will be broken.

Otherwise get 1 full shock boat and de done with it.

>>52531626
oh god, another one?

>>52523504
Ffs. I would take 10/19 over 12/18 any day. All that you care about is still going to hit you, but the one armor makes a huge difference on heavies with so many boxes.

>>52531848
>If fang theme is anything to go by, it will be broken.

Fang theme becomes trash the moment everyone brings out the anti-infantry tech. It's just not used at all at the moment, because of muh 7 heavies.meta

I miss my Mk2 Butcher3

>>52531688
>One
You mean all Titans, right? You know, Titans, the workhorse heavy of Skorne? Even Minions are laughing at us now. I'd take a Blackhide Wrassler over a Gladiator any day of the week. 1 more point but but +2DEF, higher base speed, free charges half the time, and an insane animus?

>>52532139
MAT6 swinging on DEF10 has an 8.3% chance to miss, but against DEF12 it jumps to a 27.8% chance. That's a really big jump.

>>52532399
Consider that most things that arm 18 or higher is worried about is mat7.

>>52532385
The def stat nerf sucked and I'm not super sure why it happened other than lol fluff designspace.

If they had stayed 12, wrongeye and snapjaw, burning ash, mordikaar feat, there are a lot of tools that would have been really nice to have.

That being said, Skorne is in a really good place now, what with all the units being viable and good at what they do. A makeda 1 list has been tearing up our store. Its 2 max arcuarii, MK, and some support. It's very fast and very effective.

>>52531848
PP no one is going to buy your other MoW models until we know the theme is worth using. Nice try though.

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>>52532449
>2 max arcuarii

>>52532449
Of all the casters you could use with Arcuarii, why Makeda1? I would've thought anyone with debuffs would be much better like Rasheth or even Hexxy1.

>>52532385
>Even Minions are laughing at us now.

Are you retarded?

Skorne are one of the stronger factions now. Minions are at the bottom of the curve.

>>52532938
>Skorne are one of the stronger factions, I swear!
Everyone keeps saying that. Meanwhile the most common Skorne list in large tournaments is Rasheth, whose most common list received little to no changes in the errata.

But yeah I'm sure the errata had a big impact on Skorne.

>>52533135
Cry more. Skorne is great.

>>52532465
I'm just coping with buying 4 units of mows in mk2.

>>52533758
I'm sorry anon.

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>>52528777

>>52532385
>I'd take a Blackhide Wrassler over a Gladiator any day of the week...
So play minions instead and quit bitching.

>>52535385
>I know you've bought like, a full faction and all, but just buy another!

>>52532385
>I'd take a Blackhide Wrassler over a Gladiator any day of the week.

You've already got Enrage in faction, of course you'd like to get someone else's core-faction STR buff.

So that's not really an even trade.

Gladiator + PGBH for Wrassler and Targ, though, is more like it, and I don't think there's any sane argument that Minions have the better side of that.

>>52535507
I'd do that in a heartbeat.

>>52535530
You're an idiot, then.

>>52535546
>Skorne used to have free charges and DEF12 Titans
>"I THINK LOSING FREE CHARGES TO GET A DEF12 BEATSTICK BACK IS FAIR"
Fuck off.

>>52529107
ARM 26 on feat turn. ARM 23 any another time. And some cheap dudes for Last Stand.

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>>52523504

Which Factions are considered easy to play?
I am a newbie and do not want to play an army that is seen as EZMode. I want to feel as though I have earned my wins.
Is this a real thing to worry about, or are all armies demanding some skill from the player?

Mostly in terms of Skorne and Trolls. I like the style, but don't want my gameplan to consist of 'Move into B2B and eat them'.
Which is more demanding between those 2?

>>52535971
>First Immoren
>THEN THE STARS

>>52535971
All armies demand some skill from the player; there's no easy faction.

Some casters are more difficult to play than others, and several have a singular, highly-focused gameplan, but there's no "easy mode".

>>52528096
Thanks a lot, mate.

I hate painting infantry and I have like 3 units to do.

>Venator Slingers
>Praetorian Swordsmen + UA
>Praetorian Ferox
fuggin gil me :-DDD

Is there a good list pair for Magnus2 that's not Ossrum?

I hate playing him, he feels super cheesy.

>>52535971
Trolls look so boring, play Skorne.

>>52523504
i wanted to get into hordemnachines when the third edition rolled around(was it third?) but when i read about it it turned out you guys thought it was mostly shit.

has it been fixed yet ?

>>52538518

You probably heard some guild ball propaganda
I honestly would much prefer the beginning for mk3 over mk2 but that's just me.

Since then, a lot of things got changed: Una, Wurmwood, Power attacking own models is no longer a thing. Skorne got buffed pretty much faction-wide. A lot of factions have decent theme list now which

>>52538518
don't listen to 4chan ever, if there are people near you who play, play it

>>52538518
You got duped by the AoShitters, mate. MkIII started off better than the previous edition, and it's only gotten better with the following erratas.

Anyone that says otherwise is either a shill or a Cryxbabby.

>>52537700
I'm gonna end up in that boat come June. 32 models all at once...

>>52533135
As a note, Skorne did just get 2nd place at Crucible. Neither of those lists was the accepted standard.
Makeda1
- Hydra
- Molik Karn
- Gladiator
- Agonizer
Beast Handlers min
Bloodrunners
Legends
Master Tormentor

Zaal2
- Cannoneer
- Krea
- Shaman
Immortals Max x3
- UA x2
Tyrant Commander
Hakaar
Ancestral Guardian
Chef

>>52539392
...That's a lot of Immortals.

>>52539392
>Makeda1
>Not accepted

>Zaal2
>Affected by the errata

Intredasting.

>>52533135
You clearly have not experienced the horror that is Makeda and her army of jumping murder cats

>>52539600
I'm working on painting up Xerxis1 and his army of PS16+4d6 murder cats.

>>52537700
I haven't painted a model since mk2.
Currently staring at 3 nomads, 2 talons, 2.5 warcasters, trenchers, boomhowlers, and a shit ton of Kingmaker solos in metal form.

feelsrealfuckingbad.png

>>52539908
Solos are easy as fuck. It's just that when you've got a horde of dudes who all look the same staring at you, shit's grim.

>>52539471
Notice I said the lists are not the accepted standard, not the warlocks. I've never seen Makeda1 (or any Makeda) talked about with a Hydra before. Usually it's Ferox and Karn in the majority of discussion.

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Played Strakhov for the first time today!

It went... kind of bad. My opponent's list was obnoxious (Gaspy1, 2x Satyxis boats, birds, 2 arc nodes, worm, deathjack, gunslingers) for my 5 jacks+supports to deal with.

Turn 1, my opponent ran forward and managed to snipe my Widowmaker marksman with a lucky 6" deviation going forward. My turn 1 was walking forward, getting some damage onto Deathjack and trying to jam with the Kayazy.

Turn 2, all but one Kayazy died (nice die rolls, yo) and Kell Bailoch got charged too. My turn 2 was actually solid; A Juggernaut and Torch killed some Satyxis, the Kayazy killed a Satyxis blocking a charge lane and sidestepped away, Behemoth did some damage against Deathjack and killed my own Kayazy with a scatter, Strakhov charged another Satyxis and sprinted back into safety. Lastly, Ruin smacked Deathjack dead and overran out of Cancerworms threat range.

Turn 3, Gaspy did some Parasite and teleported, the remaining 15 Satyxis charged my jacks and combined with the Gunslingers, did 10 feedback damage to Strakhov.

Almost all of my army was jammed up, so I went for the assasination. Torch got two focus, Ruin got 2 focus. Strakhov then shot some birds,cast overrun on a Juggernaut and feated. Torch went next and burned 3 Satyxis out of the charge lane with aimed and boosted fire. Behemoth had to squat a satyxis, Juggernaut2 killed another and then Juggernaut1 got the Overrun off.

The moment of truth, Ruin charges Gaspy, who was sitting on 2, taking 4 free-strikes all of which did no damage. I hit the charge, doing 15 damage, proccing a focus. Attack 2 did 7 damage, proccing another. The two next attacks missed and I hate to concede.

Overall, I don't think I made a mistake and I can rest in peace with the knowledge that missing two swings on 5s was just the universe conspiring against me.

>>52540443
But it was fun regardless and thanks to my opponent, who was kind of to play with me after I waited 4 hours at my store for someone to show up.

If you want the lists, ask.

So I've been playing Amon and Thyra all MK3 and been having a blast, but now I want to try some jankier shit. What do you think?

War Room Army

Protectorate of Menoth - Reznik 2 Flameguard

Theme: Guardians of the Temple
1 / 1 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army


Servath Reznik, Wrath of Ages - WJ: +29
- Scourge of Heresy - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Templar - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Templar - PC: 15
- Sanctifier - PC: 14

Nicia, Tear of Vengeance - PC: 0
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Wrack - PC: 1
Wrack - PC: 1
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
Daughters of the Flame - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
Flame Bringers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17


THEME: Guardians of the Temple
---
War Room Army

Protectorate of Menoth - Feora3

Theme: Guardians of the Temple
1 / 1 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army


Feora, the Conquering Flame - WJ: +27
- Hand of Judgment - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Vigilant - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
- Indictor - PC: 15
- Indictor - PC: 15

Nicia, Tear of Vengeance - PC: 0
Wrack - PC: 1
Wrack - PC: 1

Daughters of the Flame - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
Daughters of the Flame - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
Flame Bringers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6


THEME: Guardians of the Temple
---

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>>52540443
>running Strakhov
>calling anyone else's list obnoxious

Ain't nothing wrong with super optimized lists, but have some self-awareness bruh.

I can't wait for Skorne to get its first theme list n_n

>>52541774
Winds of Death is a thing, even if it's just to give Rasheth a wall to hide behind while his beast herd moves forward.

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>>52524403
>>52531626
>>52532385
>>52533135
>>52535454
>>52535530

>>52541793
And by "beast herd" you mean "Mammoth", right?

>>52541447
pls, Strakhov1 is not even top 5

(I actually meant obnoxious as a matchup. It was a lot of blast-immune infantry and clouds).

Did tough fix Bane Thralls?

>>52542800
MOAR BANEZ is pretty scary to go up against.

It's just not competitive enough, because gunlines are a thing.

>>52542909
Imagine if they had stealth.

>>52543126
That was way too cancerous though. If the debate is no stealth vs stealth.

However, maybe a rule that gives them concealment at all times or something? I'd be down for that.

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>>52523504

What is everyone's favourite Theme list right now?

> Destruction Initiative
Free Servitors, that also inherit Shield Guard, for buying models that I want to spam anyway?
It's so good that it warps the entire faction around it.

> Ravens of War
Not a power player, but fluffy and fun. Everything is Stealthed, flying, ambushing and generally being a nightmare to engage properly.

Bought a Rager today, because it's part of my 100p Jacks Harkevich list to get 4 free solos.

But since the Forge Seers aren't out yet, I can't play that list yet. Are there any other lists that use a Rager? I thought about dusting off Irusk2 and give him a last honorary spin, since he will get replaced by Strakhov2 in a few weeks.

>>52535971
>Which Factions are considered easy to play?
I don't know if they're "easy to play," but Cygnar, Retribution and Khador are the top-tier factions right now (so is Convergence, but their faction doesn't get regular yearly updates like the "real" factions do, so I don't recommend you buy them to start off with).

> Mostly in terms of Skorne and Trolls. I like the style, but don't want my gameplan to consist of 'Move into B2B and eat them'.
Trolls are one of the weakest factions right now. Playing them is an exercise in frustration and, honestly, has been since 1st edition.

Skorne are okay. They're certainly easier to play than Trolls.

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So what is Toruk's endgame after he kills all his sons?

>>52544114
He goes back to being a shithead like he was before.

>>52544159
>t. Everblight

>>52544114
According to Wrath of the Dragonfather Toruk's blight field when empowered by the athancs of his progeny would irradiate, kill, and zombify all life on Immoren. So Zombiepocalypse may not be his endgame, but it's a byproduct.

>>52544461
That's bullshit. He wasn't doing that the thousands of years he lived before he created his children so why would that happen now.

>>52543747
>Skorne are okay. They're certainly easier to play than Trolls.
Only due to a whole faction errata. And even then, they do have issues still.

On that note, trolls are arguably better off than Cryx.

>>52544542
He created his children before anything else lived on Caen.

>>52544114
I doubt he himself has given it much thought. It's not like he had a plan when he split his athanc - it was just a curious whim.

I've noticed that dragons in IK are ultimately pretty simple creatures. They're immortal, they have no real needs, and as such they have little interest in anything beyond the big game of tag going down between them and their father. The only real thing that drives any of the dragons, Toruk included, is the seemingly innate desire to be complete once again, and to be the dominant persona in the restored original athanc. Everything else is just means to that end.

You see the sheer strength of this compulsion in Everblight. When it becomes clear that Saeryn and Rhyas have to hand over an athanc to Blighterghast, or Toruk will get it and even everyone, Everblight STILL demands that they fight for it, and when Saeryn essentially saves his life by disobeying, he's so angry he puts a kill order on the siblings, alienating his two most powerful lieutenants in the process.

>>52544603
For a new player Cryx are fine.

They still have plenty of good stuff. The problem is that autoincludes from MKII are no longer gamebreakingly OP in MKIII, and lists have to change as a result. What this means is that a lot of old Cryx players have an army of models that are now suboptimal on the highest level of play.

That said, if you're not part of that tiny percentage of players in the runnings to win the big tourneys, this matters very little.

Trying to make an Ossyan list to pair with Helynna a Triple Colossals. How do you guys think this will do?
War Room Army

Retribution of Scyrah - Ossy

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army


Lord Arcanist Ossyan - WJ: +28
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4
- Hypnos - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Moros - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)

Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2

House Vyre Electromancers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8
House Vyre Electromancers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8
Mage Hunter Strike Force - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
- Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander - PC: 6
Dawnguard Invictors - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
- Dawnguard Invictor Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
Heavy Rifle Team - Leader & Grunt: 4
Heavy Rifle Team - Leader & Grunt: 4


---

GENERATED : 04/05/2017 11:00:03
BUILD ID : 2038.17-03-15

>>52544969
> Helynna a Triple Colossals

You are the wildcard I need, lad

>>52544969
>not including Sentinels + UA for Quicken
>no Stormfalls

>>52545063
I promised my mate I would attend the Steamroller this weekend with Triple a Colossals and he'll show up with Gunny Double Kings. It's just a dumb fun list anyway.
>>52545092
>Losing 8 guns to bring public enemy number 1 that will no doubt get shot off the board
Stormfalls are expensive son

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Man, paying for Forge Seers feels so bad... But I really don't think Strakhov1 is playable without Ruin.

I had fucking MAT 10 today and STILL missed 2 out 4 swings, costing me the assassination. If I switched to the Spriggan, I would probably miss a knocked down objective with crippled movement.

>>52545175
>public enemy number 1 will outthreat many melee units and may still partially make it to the opponent if you fan them out right
>public enemy number 1 costs the opponent activations not spent on your other units

If they don't deal with it, you're gonna wreck something
If they do, they leave you to shoot the fuck out of them with impunity

Does anyone have any experience running Krueger2 in the wild hunt theme? in my moving to the side, feating them into the ambushing wolfs charge range seems legit. I don't own any of the wolf sworn models tho, I'm normally more of a baldur and wold sort of fella

>>52543623
>What is everyone's favourite Theme list right now?
The one that gives me 20 free points for spamming ten of the same model. That one is really iinteresting.

Its kind of curious to me that people are surprised that Legion might not get new models. Everblight is like the only interesting character in that entire faction (the rest of them are his puppets, more or less).

Only interesting stories are Vayl (because Nyssor haunting her is kind of interesting) and Saeryn / Rhyas (because the only interesting thing you can do, from a story perspective, is free yourself from Everblight. Being an amoral monster might be fun, but good stories don't come from that).

I'm still hoping that Ret can eventually run a full Nyss army with their new releases. Would be really interesting if Saeryn, Rhyas, or both of them ended up as Ret casters.

Unrelated question: Why are so many people hopping on the Ret bandwagon? Been playing them since they came out, and it just seems like so many people are jumping on board now.

They're a mainline faction that's behind in releases, and aren't really cleaning house at tournaments. So just wondering what changed?

>>52548522
They got a lot better so a lot of people picked them up. They're also balanced really well internally and that's worth a lot.

>>52544613
Nah. He created his progeny after he witnessing all the fledgling races and felt lonely.

>>52549033

> Legion exists because Toruk had hurt fee-fees

Wow what a bitch

>>52548889
Their internal balance is shite. There's no reason to take any infantry other than Sentinels or sometimes the MHSF if you run Ossyan.

>>52550585
Well if all you do is follow hot internet memes that's true. However, if you actually play the game, you will realize that's fucking wrong.

>>52550585
Sometimes I wonder if being this retarded actually hurts.

Ossyan takes Invictors, MHSF and Stormfalls pretty regularly, sometimes Houseguard if he wants cheaper shooting in exchange for more jacks or needs a melee jamming unit. Same goes for Ravyn and Kaelyssa. Rahn is almost always running Battle Mages and Stormfalls. Thyron tends to take Battle Mages for their ability to maximize upon his feat, and there's been a recent spate of Infiltrator use by people really getting into the mechanics of the faction.

Helynna and Issyria are the only warcaster for whom it is always absolutely optimal to take Sentinels, and even they don't take just Sentinels. Helynna wants one unit and a bunch of warjacks, Issyria wants another infantry unit, usually a shooty one.

You should really try playing the game, dude.

>>52550585
Or the Shield dudes if you just want to jam. Or Invictors, if you want to gunline. Or Riflemen if you want to gunline. Or archers, because archers.Or the E-leap guys, if you want to buttrape dudespammers. Or Mage Hunter Strikers if you want a mobile unit that shits on dudes relying on buffs to survive (and with any kind of help scratch Warjacks).

Sentinels are the default choice, but almost everything in Retribution can be usable with some kind of caster. Which is why they are the best balanced faction in a vaccum.

Try to find lists that make Assault Kommandos playable. Or fucking Seadogs.

The only thing I constantly hear about, is how awful Ret cavalry is. But I don't think they're that bad, it's just that EVERY faction that isn't cygnar has shitty cavalry atm.

>>52550833
>it's just that EVERY faction that isn't cygnar has shitty cavalry atm
Ferox are great, Uhlans and Vengers are good, can't comment on the others. It's just that Storm Lances are extremely good. A bit too good even.

>>52545245
You can just take Grolar.

>>52550833
Generally cavalry is the best melee infantry all factions have. Ret and Cryx are the exceptions.

>>52551153
That doesn't feel very true for Skorne. Karax and Swoosemen are just as good if not better.

>>52551170
And that's why I wish almost every faction had a Skorne-style overhaul. Almost all of our stuff is good.

I guess, theoretically, Destors are good at playing the threat range game. Ret has a lot of casters than can boost their speed and allow them to push through terrain unhindered.

The problem is that they're a little underwhelming when they get to the enemy. I mean, in ideal conditions, they'll kill a medium based dude and then shoot a smol dude behind them on the charge, but if you don't have that fantastic situation available, their smashing power doesn't seem worth it.

Maybe they're good with Ossyan? Decent shooting that can run into melee after his feat turn?

>>52551176
Karax, Swoosemen, and Ferox are the only things you see on a regular basis. Everything else is niche or meme tier.

>>52551254
Take a look at the Skorne lists that have been doing well at tournaments. No Swordsmen, Karax, or Ferox in sight.

Play the game rather than repeating shit you've heard online.

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Just brainstormed this list. Could it work?

When I see Vyros1, I usually see Sentinels. But I personally think they are too slow and easy to play around if your opponent wants to deny a good feat turn. They're also difficult to spread out enough to 1) allow your jacks to have a clear charge lane and 2) get multiple enemies engaged on multiple sides.

So, I thought "Hey, why not just use a fast unit with Stealth and Pathfinder to get my feat turn off?"

So I came to this list. Imperatus should usually always have the armor buff spell to make him obnoxiously difficult to remove and the Arcanists and the Rifle are there to fix damage.

My one fear however, is that cracking multiple jacks might be a challenge. Maybe Sylys could be a second rifle team?

>>52551275
>No Swordsmen, Karax, or Ferox in sight
That's not entirely true either. I've seen pretty much everything getting played and at least Karax and Ferox are staples. I've even seen lists with Reptile Hounds (admittedly only as a filler/fury battery) or Arcuarii.

It's still too soon to decide what the best Skorne lists/pairings will be in the near future, but Mak2 with Doublecats is definitely a contender.

>>52551300
>When I see Vyros1, I usually see Sentinels.
Weird. I usually see Infiltrators. I'm not sure you need that many though.

Also, while Lanyssa is really good, is she better than the billion free points from the theme force?

>>52551305
I still don't get why people don't just slam Rasheth into any Skorne pairing. Like man, he does everything you could want. Murders infantry, picks off solos, has ARM crack, has high enough fury to handle a Mammoth while supporting it. He's just so fucking GOOD man.

>>52551350
Well I personally don't because I don't have him painted yet. But in general, he's not as good as he looks on paper. It's a typical situation of "looking at the stats" versus "looking at the problems".

He isn't good into Protectorate. He works into Cygnar half the time. Cryx can potentially out-Cryx him. Most of Hordes should be fine, as should Ret, depending on lists. Khador is a major problem. CoC will probably not be pretty either.

Sure, he does a lot of great things, but not what is needed. He doesn't solve specific problems aside from probably Haley2 and doesn't provide any for the opponent aside from "can you deal with my ARM brick?", which is not really unique in Skorne.

And on top of that he does have significant weaknesses to balance his equally significant strengths. His personal contribution is not all that great and usually limited to a single nuke per turn. His scenario-presence is almost nonexistant.

I'll repeat though: He's good. Just not a no-brainer.

He wants to play an army of nature, withe ents, trees and sort of thing.
I do not like construct like megalith
But cassius, trees and wild women are ok. Can I build armie with them?

>>52551654

I also do not like werewolves and satyrs

>>52551654
Well if you like none of the warbeasts of the faction it's going to be a bit rough.

>>52551669
Okkk megalith or Griffons can steand

>>52551669
Cassius and his trees are must have

>>52551669
From solos I like lord-of-the-feast and Bloodweaver

>>52551153
I'd add Trolls to that list, too.

Fennblades are much better than Long Riders most of the time.

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>>52551306
The theme allows neither Discordia, Sentinels nor Mage Hunters in the list.

Two min-units are easy to spread out, allowing an alpha-strike on two locations.

How I imagined this would go (theorymachine inb4).

>>52551824
Oh damn you're right. Well what you are going for is tried and true so I see little issue with it. Not entirely sure about the rifle team. Wouldn't it be better to have Sylys?

>>52543623
>jaws of steel
So far its just been a great time throwing down that many heavies with units like the forgeseer. Well, right till I face ever-blight's armor piercing face fuckers.

>>52551841
He is in, I just forgot to draw him (look at the list above)

>>52551852
>Well, right till I face ever-blight's armor piercing face fuckers
You mean the 17p Angelius? How is that a problem for Khador jack spam?

>>52551654
>>52551700
>>52551715
Okay, well, Cassius likes to have lots of infantry so running minimum warbeasts with lots of Tharn is actually pretty great with him. I'm sure Feasty and Bloodweavers work fine too.

You do need SOME warbeasts, though, and if you don't like any of them then... eh.

>>52551857
Are you sure? Either I'm blind or you're mistaken.

>>52551857
Oh wait, fuck. I actually forgot Sylys.

That is awkward. So yeah, Sylys should be in here. Maybe, because the rifle damage is pretty important (without it, the griffons can't crack a Khador Heavy unless all three go in)

>>52551862
mostly luck dice rolls, it stings a little when you watch a heavy go down in one round.

>>52545245
Sounds like you just got diced anon.

>>52551899
I know haha. Read >>52540443 for details

>>52551891
You shouldn't. Trading a 12 point heavy with a 17 point one is totally acceptable. Just make sure you actually don't offer it for free, by allowing the nasty bat to escape.

>>52551948
fair point, it was also the first time I'd really faced legion in mk3 and haven't played in awhile. As a Khador player there anything I should keep in mind about fighting against them beyond hard to hit but squishy.

>>52551948
I love strakhov, got a good 10 games in with him the last few months. He's gonna love the jaws theme. It's a pretty big game changer for him. Being able to fully fuel a jack with those two solos is a big deal for him. It's another overrun that turn.

My store jokes that I always get him killed on feat turn, it's usually because I get greedy and overrun another jack instead of move him backward

>>52548889
>They're also balanced really well internally
Yep, shure, Ret totally do not have unplayable trash.

>>52552351
Precisely.

>>52552119
I know, but not having Ruin seems so bad. Spell immunity on the assassin is super nice.

And on top of that, I just can't imagine pulling off an assassination that requires hitting four attacks on 7s. I can't even hit three on 5s.

>>52552351
Yeah, that's right.

The only thing in Ret that's truly bad is Nayl. Even Destors and the lesser known warjacks can be good, they're just not as reliable as the options you see more often.

>>52546837
>The one that gives me 20 free points for spamming ten of the same model. That one is really iinteresting.


What about the one that gives you free solos because they can't balance the game to make solos worth taking.

Or the Scenarios coming up that make you take troops because they can't balance the game.

Warmahordes is so well designed.

Where can I reliably look up good ret lists? I haven't played in mk3 yet and a lot has changed, except Rahn seems even better.

>>52554488
Wait, isn't a scenario designed around competitive play a way of balancing the game?

Hell, aren't theme lists technically a tool of balancing?

>>52554488
Why can't you just stay in AoS general?

Your lack of real understanding is transparent to all, literally nobody is being tricked by you. Just accept that your AoS or Guildball or whatever is low tier compared to Warmahordes and hold that L. It will make you feel better if you stop interacting with the thing making you so butthurt all the time.

>>52554798
Theme lists are really a tool for variation. They are designed to let players run lists that are fluffy and would be less than viable normally, at the cost of restricted options.

Generally speaking, if a theme list gives you free solos, you're taking solos that strengthen the list, rather than taking ones that you would never pick anyway. For example: Forges of War. It's a jack-heavy theme, so people often end up taking things that support warjacks with their free solo slots.

>>52554891
I think you've got the Mk2 theme mentality in your head, but in Mk3, theme lists are pretty clearly intended for competitive play.

>>52554852
I've been playing since Mk 1 shitlord. I obviously care about the game else I wouldn't complain. Shove your fanboy up your ass :)

>>52554798
So really, theme lists aren't theme lists. They are 'really' what the point costs and army build should look like.

So why are they theme lists then?

Or better question, how many top players and lists are NOT theme lists right now?

>>52555265
They're designed to make fluffy lists more viable for competitive play. That's what theme lists have always done.

Using the same example: Forges of War is designed to make it more viable to run a list that represents House Shyeel's forces. The design team know that running only Shyeel stuff takes away a lot of options, so doing so with this theme list awards bonuses that make it worth your while to run this fluffy army.

>>52555536
See above.

>>52555741

So, it's just incidental that 1) Almost of all of the theme lists give free solos because fluff reasons and 2) Most all tourney winners are running theme forces?

What a coincidence.

>>52555876
They give you free shit to compensate for being forced to bring a sub-optimal list. The big problem is that because PP doesn't know what's good in their own fucking game, sometimes the theme list tells you to bring shit you were going to bring anyway, causing the list to be retardedly strong. Harkevich is the best example of this. Khador's first theme list was supposed to be themed for Winter Guard, except Harkevich jack spam slotted perfectly into it too, basically giving the entire battlegroup +4" deployment. The same goes for what Cygnar is stomping people into the dirt with.

Please don't imply that theme forces are somehow all amazing. Skorne got given a ranged theme for fuck's sake.

>>52556329
>The big problem is that because PP doesn't know what's good in their own fucking game

I'll accept that. Although sometimes, it's so blatant I'm not sure if that's the case.

For example, the free solos. That's obviously because they know the way they've designed the Jack percentage in Mk 3, no one takes solos. You just don't have the points left after a battle group + troop option/support.

>>52555876
>1) Almost of all of the theme lists give free solos because fluff reasons

They give you those free solos as a way of compensating you for limiting your listbuilding.

Seeing as Forges of War has been brought up twice, let's look at that. It stops you from using pretty much all Mage Hunter stuff. It stops you from using Dawnguard stuff. It limits you to units that make sense to be rallied with House Shyeel, and it blocks off any character warjacks that aren't bonded to your warcaster.

In return, you get free stuff. Those Arcanists you need to fuel your warjacks? Pick 'em up for free. Or pay for them, and use the solo slots to grab some of the more expensive Shyeel stuff, like the Artificer.

And by the way, if you think the sight of theme lists at touneys are something new, you haven't been playing the game nearly as long as you claim.

>>52556423
>in Mk 3, no one takes solos
Pls.

>>52556423
>That's obviously because they know the way they've designed the Jack percentage in Mk 3, no one takes solos.

Sheeit, bruh, speak for yourself.

Most of the lists I build wouldn't even work without certain solos.

>>52556423
>in Mk 3, no one takes solos

That's funny, because most of my lists nowadays are like 4 Solos and all jacks. I rarely bother with units anymore, outside of theme or playing casually.

What is the ideal power balance between warnouns, warjacks, units, and solos, and how should PP achieve this balance?

>>52556623
The balance would be fine if all warjacks went up a point. That or warbeasts came down a point. I mean seriously just look at Legion heavies. What the fuck man.

>>52556623
Cheap Warjacks go up, Elite Warjacks and beasts stay, melee infantry goes down, shooting infantry stays, all solos go down.

Might night so individual kinks to hammer out (Storm Lances definitely don't need to be cheaper.

>>52556500
>>52556510
>>52556539


Ok, let's quit being generic for the anon and I'll help him out here. Let's test that theory on Trolls for example.

How many lists, that ARE NOT theme lists, do you see include;

Troll Champ Heroes
Kithkars
Skinners
Braylen
Horthol
Shamans
Janissa

>>52556698
Trolls are bad, we know.

>>52556974

Not an argument.

Trolls aren't bad. They have competitive lists. However, there is no denying that the only time you see those solos are in theme lists and only because they're free. If it was free points instead of solos, you wouldn't even see them then.

>>52556698
Troll player here, basically none of those, ever.

>>52557205

Ok, so looking at Warrrom that's 7 out of 11 Troll solos that never see play outside of theme lists.

And that's being kind really, as the Chronicler and Whelps are under played as well.

But then again, how many Troll lists are not in theme anymore too?

>>52557294
To be fair, I use the SSC and whelps quite a bit.

Most lists are in theme these days, though.

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>>52556423
>in Mk 3, no one takes solos

Solos I take regularly:

>Legion
Annyssa Ryvaal
Strider Deathstalkers
Warmonger War Chiefs
Shepherds
Succubi
Forsaken

>Menoth
Exemplar Errant Seneschal
Allegiant of the Order of the Fist
Dartan Vilmon
Pyrrhus
The Covenant
Vassals (both types)
Hierophant
Sylys

>Ret
Narn
Mage Hunter Assassins
Arcanists
Skeryth Issyen
Houseguard Thanes
Shyeel Magisters
Shyeel Artificers
Elara 1
Lanyssa Ryssyl
Sylys

I dunno man, maybe I'm an outlier, but I feel like you're full of shit.

>>52552070
Unless you were playing against Abby2 (or Kryssa on a really good day) there is no way an Angelius kills a Khador heavy in one activation unless their damage spikes well above average. That's a dice+4 charge followed by usually 2-3 dice-6 attacks. The only time your jacks will really struggle to hit them back if you boost is Fyanna2's feat turn, and even then a 9 or 10 on 3d6 is reasonably going to work most of the time and an Angelius is ARM 17 with about 24 boxes. Even an Angel under Fury or Kryssa's feat only gets close to killing a Khador heavy if it charges for free and doesn't boost the charge. You won't out theaten them but you'll survive the alpha and kill them back most likely. As a Legion player, the best advice I could give you is don't get tilted by Hellmouths. Bring a Sniper boat or huddle your jacks. People I've played against spend way too much time and activations trying to kill them and I've found that to be their most useful feature. If you fear assassination from Legion gunlines Winterguard theme or Strakhov1/2 counter almost all of it. Legion will not win games of attrition against your cheap heavies. Grind them out and don't get randomly killed.

>>52557294
Why does it matter if people are using theme forces? That doesn't have anything to do with internal faction balance; if a model isn't worth it's points it needs to be looked at. But you seem to be arguing that it's a bad thing that people are using theme forces frequently an that doesn't track.

>>52558955

>Ret and Menoth are the two most internally balanced factions in the game

No shocker there, even then some of your list looks a bit suspect. So yes, you are an outlier (Well your factions)

>>52559117
>Why does it matter if people only play theme forces it doesn't have anything to do with internal faction balance

That's the dumbest thing I've read on here, mostly because I know you were dead serious typing it. Laughable.

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Bought myself Vinnie a few days back. He has some cool support spells but is he good? Can anyone give me some list tips?

>>52558955
>House Shyeel Artificers
Are you telling me the "5 points, lmao" meme was wrong?

>>52559261
>Adepticon 1st: Legion of Everblight by Jake Vanmeter
>Fyanna2 in theme
>Rhyas1 without theme

One theme, one not theme. Seems balanced uguu, senpai ~

okay, real question for everyone who keeps going on about how models not being good enough to take: how would you rebalance ALL the models in each faction to make every single thing viable?

>>52559680
First I'd put your mother on my dick.

>>52559295
VinnyD the Skinny G (as I like to call him) is a great buffbot Warcaster who really needs a lot more focus than he gets. Bring a Heirophant. Bring Wracks. Bring Zealots if you plan on playing him Forward. True Path is an amazing spell. Using his fancy conversion-weapons is usually a bad idea. This might give you some ideas.

http://lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/174/tactica-vindictus-forum-user-d3z

What is the relationship between the gods Menoth and Morrow?

>>52559680
Reduce the count of individual units that are the same thing, only with different weapon loadouts. Let people pay for the weapons they want and give them general special rules per 'type'.

So instead of 5 different type of errants that are all small-based-dudes with different weapons and similar rules, that wind up dominated by one because it's just more efficient most of the time, it's a single unit choice that has shared special rules, only needs one Unit Attachment instead of needing a different one with different rules for each unit, and winds up balanced with itself because the only difference is weapon swaps.

>>52559261
>No shocker there, even then some of your list looks a bit suspect.

Out of interest, what would you consider to be suspect choices there?

I find that all those models serve a purpose. If they don't do well, it's usually because the enemy succeeded at countering them effectively, or I wasn't bringing my A game.

>>52559680

Realistically, I don't think this can be done without removing models from the game. There are too many variables to track and niches that overlap with the current stable of models, especially from the big 4 Warmachine factions. I think PP realizes this too and is the reason they are pushing for theme lists since they chop up these larger factions into easier to manage sub factions.

If I was allowed to go full retard without caring about invaliding collections, I'd do the following.

>trim a lot of fat from each factions, especially on the warnoun and infantry front
>make many merc and minion models no longer able to work for other factions
>make animi not included on every warbeast
>warcasters now work under Fury rules
>go through all of the remaining models and focus on what they're job in the army is, what strengths and weaknesses they have, how they stack up to models with similar roles in other armies, and what scenarios would reward you for bringing this model

Of course this is pure autism levels of reworking and would never be feasible for PP to do, but as a Project M/alternate format sort of dealio I'd love to see it happen.

>>52552780
He's a great jack that's for sure, but that's the intentional tradeoff for in theme/out of theme. He and a grolar have been mainstays in my lists. I might bring another grolar or you could try to mat fix with things like marauders. The spriggan at first blush is the most obvious comparison but jumping from mat 8 to mat 6 is super sad.

My opening moves so far have been to get a superiority'd grolar up the field turn one, and he's generally my first overrun target to get things started. If the opponent leaves enough house stuff for a feat then I'll feat turn 2, but if not I'll try and hold for turn 3. If it looks like grolar won't pull it off I'll over run behemoth and maybe even strakhov (to poke with his gun) to see if I can get some better position for turn 3. If you don't feat by turn 3 it's bad times, in my experience, unless you're playing against kaelyssa or some other hard counter to his play style.

By the way, helios is a motherfucker.

>>52560438
>By the way, helios is a motherfucker.

Both Ret colossals are things that cause internal groaning when they show up. Especially when it's Issyria with her ancillary attack.

>so, like, hey, I guess half your army is RFP broseph, ain't that something special?

Y-yeah thanks bro.

>>52559261
Do you have any actual points about theme forces and balance or are you just going to keep sperging incoherently? Make an actual argument or I'm just going to assume you know I'm right.

>>52559295
Now I'm imagining Vindictus talking like Vinnie from Atlantis.

>>52559295
Take a lot of infantry that hits hard. Run, feat, charge.

>>52560989
I don't know why I'm adding to this dumpster fire of an argument but I do feel like I'm at a disadvantage when I'm playing against themes and don't have one yet, or one that I own the models for/can actually play because the enablers and benefits are unreleased/want to actually play it.

For example the Skorne theme is currently not super usable due to Dakars not existing yet. Meanwhile I'm losing handlers to a manhunter boat that my opponent got for freesies, and my aradus started on the deployment line. Yaaay.

Also, troll whelps all being individiual solos and free in theme is real cancer when it comes to scenario.

>>52560989

I made one :^) Sorry if you are uneducated enough to understand.

What do you do for a living?

>>52560989
>>52561853
Hey, the aspergers are fighting again!

I bet 5$ on the little one!

>>52554891
>For example: Forges of War. It's a jack-heavy theme, so people often end up taking things that support warjacks with their free solo slots.

Well, yeah, that's the idea. Your playing a jack heavy theme so you get support support for your jacks without eating into the amount of robots you put on the table. The themes focused around certain units usually bring solos that help or are tied to those units.

Noob coming over from 40k, looking to pick out a faction. Huge tzeentch/1k sons junky, where am I going to find something similar. I'd prefer fluff and style, but fluff beats style.

>>52563723
Hm.

What parts of the fluff are you interested in?

Cryx are the traditional bad guy faction. Their basic fluff is that they're an undead empire who worship the original dragon, Toruk(dragons are less giant lizards and more eldritch abominations), and exist to help him wage a long war against his children. They're very powerful casters supporting armies that are less than stellar on their own, but benefit a lot from the magic they can bring.

Circle are another choice. Circle's fluff is that they're attempting to keep balance between nature and civilization, because if either one becomes too powerful, it could mean the end of the world. That's their nominal goal, but they spend most of their time politicking and generally being assholes to each other, and randomly murdering everyone else.

Most everyone think they're actually trying to end the world, because most of their troops worship the very god the Circle is trying to keep in check.

Last, there's Skorne. Skorne are a desert empire that have to deal with a few facts of life, mainly, that the place they live is a massive hellhole, that they have no gods to watch over them, and that they still have souls. That last part is bad because without a god to protect them, their souls immediately end up in the void between worlds suffering torment into they're destroyed utterly. Even a couple of seconds in the void is enough to turn any skorne soul into a insane, ravenous monster that hates the living and is very good at killing them. So good, in fact, that they erase their souls in the process.

Without natural magical talent, Skorne have had to create their own, fueled by pain and suffering, both their own and others. Because of this, Skorne are legendary for their cruelty, and just about anyone who meets them hates them.

>>52564027
I'd like to emulate the "Guys with good intentions who touched the bad stuff and took it a bit too far". It seems like the shades of grey they go for in Warmahordes tends to remove that.

Circle and Skorne are probably the most Chaos-y, but it seems like they embrace it fully.

>>52554488
Lol who doesn't take solos? Every army has some great solos that fit into a bunch of lists.

>>52564354
Goreshade. Or how he is now known, Ghyrrshyld, is who you are looking for. Literally did nothing wrong. Saviour of his people.

>>52557172
Internal imbalance means that the faction is bad.

Trolls are bad because competitive choices are limited.

>>52564548
Magnus is pretty sweet in that regard too. Goreshade was misguided, Magnus was right the whole time and had to go into exile in order to save his country.

>>52564354
Hm. That comes down more to specific casters than it does to entire factions.

Magnus is likely the best example of that. He was a servant of the previous Cygnarian king, Vinter, who ended up being overthrown for being a massive shithead. Magnus stayed loyal to him because he believed him a better choice than his brother, Leto, but turned on him after Vinter had him tortured by the Skorne.

Ultimately he found Vinter's bastard son and successfully placed him on the Cygnarian throne, killing Vinter in the process. It's worth noting that Vinter was regarded as one of the most dangerous men in the entire setting, so powerful he could bring down warjacks himself. Not being a wizard, that was a pretty big deal.

Goreshade, as the other anon talked about, is another dude running around dabbling with insane forces in order to attempt to save his people.

Circle's got Krueger, a warlock shit and tired of the rest of the group spending more time backstabbing each other rather than trying to deal with threats to the world. He's done some pretty extreme shit in the process, and almost fucked the entire world up.

Trolls have Doomshaper. A firebrand, Doomshaper is seeking to lead his people to safety from the far more powerful kingdoms surrounding them. And while that's all well and good, he's often doing more harm than good because he takes every chance he can get to fuck with the actual kingdoms who's militaries have more people than his entire race.

Convergence is an interesting case. A very secretive cult of machine worshippers, you can kind of think of them like Necrons. They worship a goddess called Cyriss, who has fed them info through ciphers on how to upload their souls into robotic bodies. They're attempting to turn the entire world into a giant vessel for their god to inhabit. And one of the darkest secrets of the sect is that their soul transfer is based on Cryxian necromancy, which is a huge, huge deal if anyone found out.

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>>52564750
>Trolls have Doomshaper. A firebrand, Doomshaper is seeking to lead his people to safety from the far more powerful kingdoms surrounding them. And while that's all well and good, he's often doing more harm than good because he takes every chance he can get to fuck with the actual kingdoms who's militaries have more people than his entire race.
You forgot he keeps waking up the Troll Kings, which are basically walking time bombs.
What do the Troll Kings eat when the Trollbloods win?

>>52564550
Trolls are weird

They have a pretty solid stable of warlocks and their heavies are all pretty good with the exception of the Blitzer which would be fine if it just cost less.

Their infantry and solos though range from average at best to total garbage

>>52564862
>their heavies are all pretty good
I mean there's only 4 non-character ones so that would be pretty damning if more than 1 was bad.
Also isn't the Blitzer's problem more the meta moving away from infantry?

>>52564548
New fluff has stated that his dashing of the soulless baby's head against the floor was Something Wrong, since that child would have gone on to save the Seeker who would have found a cure for the Iosian gods.

>>52564750

>And one of the darkest secrets of the sect is that their soul transfer is based on Cryxian necromancy

Is this recent? I don't call that from their faction book, but I could totally see the connection.

>>52564902
I think it was from the Convergence book, but basically they figured out how to do it by dissecting a Iron Lich

>>52564902
It's in the command book, but not talked about in anything but the fluff bit.

Basically, Lucant and Lucidia abducted an Iron Lich and used the process to refine the capabilities of the transfer to make it work. However, when the other priests found out what Lucidia did, they banished her for it, and she came back and killed everyone. Lucant survived by transferring his soul using the technique, and is the only one who knows where the process to perfect it came from. He's never told anyone else about this.

>>52564902
It's in Mk2 FoW:C and oddly in Dark Convergance as well (somehow Aurora knows about a thing literally Lucant is the only one of them old enough to directly know and the darkest secret of their faith). Lucant's soul transfer is based on the notes of his boss who dismantled an Iron Lich to figure out its phylactery and was then exiled and shamed from the cult, although that didn't stop them from using her notes to make the Soul Transfer. She came back, killed most of them, and is now known as Mortenebra.

>>52564902
Mortenebra figured it out after dissecting an iron lich. She presented her findings at the annual Convergence of Cyriss Symposium, where they cast her out for being a necromancer. She ran to Cryx and returned with a small army of Helljacks and other assorted nasties to get revenge for not being published in the CoC Journal of Engineering. This conflict is also what led to Lucant being interred in the first CoC clockwork body.

>>52564947
Hey, Dark Convergence, that shitty ass book that was super bad.

Though the scene where Nemo and his buddies seek an Axiom was great.

>>52564886
When all your heavies are good you don't need as many. Having more might be cool but getting a mediocre baby just for the sake of getting one would suck

The game is swinging back to more dudes but that won't make the Blitzer relevant. It costs too many points for a Rat 5 gun with random rof. Either he needs to get cheaper or the gun needs to change

>>52564941
>>52564912
>>52564947
Man fuck all y'alls fast fingers

>>52556698
>How many lists, that ARE NOT theme lists, do you see include;
>Braylen

Is actually pretty good but unfortunately she can't be taken in any theme lists currently. She's pretty cool, if a bit expensive, I'm something like Calandra or a Grim2 list.

Everything else you listed sucks though. Janissa and Shamans are cool in PoD but that's it

>>52564893
Actually the fluff states that the soulless child would have prevented the death of an Evyren noble who would have found a secret the seekers long have sought. Thing is, it doesn't specify which one, and the Seekers are looking for more than just how to save the gods. They're looking for what caused the gods downfall, what the other gods status are, how is human magic intertwined with the gods malady, a cure for the gods, etc.

The lack of specification lends support to the notion that it was not the same answer Goreshade is looking for.

>>52565143
Also the implied predestination is bullshit anyway. If the child was predestined to save that noble, it wouldn't have been killed by Goreshade.

>>52559614
He played Rhyas only in the last round when he was locked out of Fyanna2.

>>52560989
"Spam shit, get more free shit" is bad design.

>>52565209
We;ve seen both time and fate based magic. They're taking the possible paths concept. If Goreshade hadn't killed the kid, they'd have gone on to do great things.

>>52564853
>What do the Troll Kings eat when the Trollbloods win?

They have a hard enough time keeping them fed NOW. The only reason any of their beasts haven't cannibalized everything in the United Kriels is because the plot demands that they don't. Seriously, read any Trollbloods short story and it will go into great detail as to how the troll warlock is barely keeping their beasts sated and how low their food supplies are.

>>52565293
theme forces are fucking cancer
the way they were implemented is fucking cancer

>>52565910
Deal with it? I don't know what to tell you salt lords but themes are the way the game is meant to be played.

Decided to get into warmachine after being interested in it for a few years. Ordered the khador battlegroup, and khador paint set. My question is, what color primer should i use, white or black? Any tips for new painters?

>>52565293
I think some of them are fine right now. With Oracles it's just Mk II Legion getting free support units, and CoC is propped up on DI. Haven't had the chance personally to play against Heavy Metal but Storm Division is certainly beatable. The stupid fucking Khador one is retarded beyond belief though.

>>52564862
>>52564886
>>52564972
>blitzers the bad one
>when fucking earthborns exists.
Animus is redundant and not relevant, weaker output than stuff of equivalent points, not even more tanky since the wound number disparity has disappeared.

At least Blitzer has a fucking gun with decent range.

>>52566108
White. Always white unless your color scheme is going to be SUPER dark.

Working with dark colors over white is slightly difficult, but working with bright colors over black is the worst fucking thing ever.

>>52566108
I play Khador too, and I use black primer since white tends to make my reds too bright and shiny (too Blood Angels for me).

Red can be tricky, don't be afraid to thin it down a bit and paint multiple layers to get an even coat. Trying to get coverage in a single layer leads to gloppy, thick lines in the paint, especially with reds.

Basecoat with your darkest shade color, then leave a little bit of that visible when you paint over it in the main color. For my highlights I use a mix of the intermediate (main) color, with just a drop or two of the highlight color. It helps them blend better.

Don't overload your brush, you just want the tip to hold some paint. Dip it and wipe the excess on your palette or a paper towel. If you want really thin paints, dip it in water, then wipe the excess water on the towel - this allows for better smoothness, but you'll need additional layers.

Finally, make sure to drink your paintwater when you're done for the day.

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>>52566188
>Erfborn
>Bad

Holy crap, people like this exist? Um, do you even play trolls? I have to assume you don't this comment is so unfathomabley stupid

The Earthborn is a solid beast with a good stat line that gets better with terrain and the various buffs you can throw on him. He's also a beast that has native pathfinder and that's a pretty big deal. You say the animus is redundant but the Bouncer is never going to kill a heavy, an Earthborn can

>>52566138

I think Circle has the most balanced theme forces currently(never thought I'd say that). They all have some powerful benefits but you potentially lose out on a lot by going into them, so you really have to make the benefits work for the list.

>no Sentry Stones/Wayfarers/Shifting Stones/Wilder in Tharn or Wolf Sworn theme list
>Sentry Stones and Blackclads in the Wold theme, but cant take living beasts
>cant take Loki if you're not Tannith, can't take Megalith if you're not Baldur

They do a really good job of separating some of the most attractive options in the faction so that you don't get everything you want in one theme force.

Then you have fucking Cygnar, Legion, and Khador where it's "herpaderp have every mandatory solo in your faction for free if you spam the best stuff in your faction".

>>52566138
Oracles is a good example. It works because it disallows a lot of the strong Legion models and requires you to field the relatively bad ones for a bonus. But that's an entirely new issue: In order for themes to work their factions need to be internally imbalanced.

>>52566363
What if the factions are actually just balanced around theme lists? They've been saying this since before the launch

>>52566363
Oracles is making me consider picking up Legion because I was a fan of the beast-heavy playstyle in mk2 but never really decided to budge off Menoth. Part of me is dissatisfied with the theme forces because Destruction Initiative is probably going to mean PP won't do much of a pass on CoC infantry for example. Perhaps it'll all work out when everyone has more than 3 theme forces and you have a variety to choose from.

And yes, fuck the Winterguard Kommand, that shit is so fucking stupid.

>>52566424
They said that theme forces are supposed to make up a significant part of lists and I had hoped that that would not mean >90% and more like 50%.

I personally like to play balanced lists with a bit of everything and I just don't see why I should get penalized for that. Missing out on something like Apparition on a unit or CRA on Gunmages seems fair, but playing 20p down every single game because I just want to play normal lists is not. It doesn't help that I own a few Merc and Minion models which are basically just paper weights now.

Themes being viable is fine, but themes being the only way to play, which is where we are heading, is not.

>>52566347
What are the Khador mandatory solos you're butthurt about?

Kovnik Joe? Mandatory for WG. Available for WG theme only. Can't spam them in 2/3 themes.

War Dog? You've got that much of a problem with the pooch?

Widowmaker Marksman? Available in 2/3 themes, only benefits a FA:1 unit. Won't be available in MoW theme when it drops.

Someone else handle the other factions.

>>52566534
What list let's you take 20 points of free stuff? There isn't one.

The stuff people are taking for free are minor solos and junk. Your opponent got two Iron Fang Kovniks for free? Whoopty fucking do

>>52566585

The Khador ones(except for the Iron Fangs one since that's pretty decent all around and really only crazy with Zerkova1) are less of a problem about the free models and more about the other benefits you get.

>Jaws of the Wolf
>2x Forge Seers + whatever solo, you got what you need to play jack spam now
>Oracles
>2 Forsaken and 2 Sorceresses on Hellions, 20 free points for taking every beast you would want and you only miss Typhon and Azrael
>Heavy Metal+Storm Division
>free Junior, Arlan, and/or Squire for taking the best unit in the game or spamming jacks

>>52566689

Between 5 sets of Servitors, Convergence quite frequently plays at +20pts. It's not unreasonable to play entirely 'Jacks and solos, without a single unit on the board.

>>52566698
>Forsaken and 2 Sorceresses on Hellions, 20 free points
Its 25 points of beasts and is changing ţo small base solos.

>>52566743

>25 points of beasts

Pretty easy to hit 100 points of warbeasts in Legion.

>changing to small based solos

Source?

>>52566698
Besides I'm pretty sure two Sorcs on a lot of casters is less good than a Succubus and Sorc.

>>52566821

18 points versus 20 points, is there really a difference at that point? You're still essentially getting a heavys worth in points.

>>52566826
Of terrible solos. Not sure why this is a big deal. 20 points of garbage is still garbage even if its free

>>52566872

>Succubus
>Forsaken
>Sorceress
>terrible solos

Really nigga?

>>52566689
Oracles lets you do it as well as DI.

And even Heavy Metal regularly gets 17 free points. But I guess Junior+Squire+Arlan+Jakes are terrible models that nobody would ever play.

>>52566698
The one big thing Oracles has going against it is the new scenario that you can't score with warbeasts or warjacks. That's a pretty significant downside. Chances are we'll start seeing more Hellmouth lists because of it.

>>52566743
I've been searching for a half an hour and cannot find a source for this claim. Please link it, anon.

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>>52564354
>I'd like to emulate the "Guys with good intentions who touched the bad stuff and took it a bit too far".

There's no real faction that's like this, instead there are individual warcasters/warlocks. Which is why we need an Infernalists army. Where my Thamarites, PP?

That said, Khador are well on their way to being these.

>"How do we make motherland stronk, comrade?"
>"Vell comrade, we unearth ze terrible eldritch artifact and tape it to modern steamjack, is grand idea."
>"That seems a leetle"-
>"Ve also perform the abominable magic experiment on our worst criminals and put ancient evil sword of soul eating in their hands, cause much destruction and fear!"
>"I do not know comrade, this seems perhaps a small bit too mu"-
>"Also, we make bargain with ancient evil witch of woods, use foul woman magic to make motherland feared across land!"
>"Comrade, I fear that this" -
>"Excuse me, comrade, must leave. New orders, I will try to steal elvish god so that motherland will be even stronger. This is excellent idea!"
>"..."

>>52568515
I don't want to be femdom'd by Zerkova-sama.

Save me, Harkevich-senpai!

>>52568515
I want Zerkova to dominate me.

Granularity is the reason why some theme lists are better than others. Sure the Skorne theme is shit because it's ranged, but at the same time we have some good ranged units. But Reivers are 15 and their UA is 4, which means 19 points when you need 20 for the bonus. Infact Skorne has no easy way at all to make up 20s with our unit costs. Slingers are 13, Reivers are 15 with a 4 point UA, and the cannons are 5 each. Sure you could take Reivers and a cannon, but Reivers are so much worse without their UA.

>>52568515
Can't we just go back to gassing civilians?

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>>52568696
>Can't we just go back to gassing civilians?
Nyet comrade, we must go farther.
We will drop Scarsgrad on Cygnar.

>>52563723
Cryx is the only "evil" faction.

>>52568754
Everblight and Skorne are pretty evil.

I know people like to pretend that Skorne are just products of a harsh culture, and this is kinda true, but so are Druchii and Deldar and the like. We still refer to them as evil factions. Skorne literally torture people for fun and their civilization is built upon the idea that you can do whatever you want to anyone less powerful than you. They evil.

>>52568754
>Skorne gets a bye
Aww yeah.

>>52568775
>Skorne literally torture people for fun
Nope.
>you can do whatever you want to anyone less powerful than you
Nope.

Skorne is built around trying to earn the right to have your soul immortalised, the problem being that only a handful per generation can earn the honour, so everyone is super competitive over trying to prove what giant motherfuck badasses they are.

>>52568791
>Nope.

There's a No Quarter issue where an onlooker watches Skorne doing this.

Skorne culture has a lot of martial discipline to it, but it's also immensely sadistic. They wouldn't call it sadistic, because they rationalize it with the hoksune shit and the idea that pain is an inevitability, but it still is what it is. Skorne are antagonists, they were literally designed as one of the big bad guys of the setting, going all the way back to when it was a D20 system.

At the very least, Skorne are as bad as the Orgoth. They're basically the same people, just from the east rather than the west. Skorne do everything that made the Orgoth bad.

>>52568637
Well you could take 2x Reivers+UA and a Dakar for 42p and get 2 free Weapon Crews.

That's not the point though. Winds of Death is balanced because it:
>is somewhat restrictive
>grants free models off of taking okay models that are not really spammable
>will usually only grant 10 free points
>buffs those models that do not give you free points (beasts)

Winds of Death is a valid consideration. Taking the theme is a choice and not a no-brainer. It's playable without invalidating other lists. If all themes were like this I'd have no issue with them.

>>52568922
Wall the Dakar isn't released yet so that's off the table. Beyond that, what solos are you getting exactly? Soulwards are nigh-useless against Warmachine, and Willbreakers don't support infantry very well outside of Tough which isn't a very reliably bonus if you ask me.

>>52568954
Just take Catapults and Marketh. The Dakar is out next month, so that won't be an issue for long. He'll probably be what makes this list good.

That said, I don't want to play WoD. It's a gunline that doesn't work against anti-gunline tech. Everyone who can deal with Cygnar, Khador or Ret gunlines can deal with WoD.

Anyone here currently playing IKRPG?

What does you group look like?

>>52560228
So create a completely different game, got it.>>52568515
>Also, we make bargain with ancient evil witch of woods, use foul woman magic to make motherland feared across land!"
There's no bargain there, Old Witch just shows up and takes soldiers and equipment when she needs it. It's completely in OWs favor, the Empress just knows that Khardic rulers who defy the Witch have a habit of being violently overthrown.

>>52566329
>Earthborn
>Good
Holy crap, people like this exist? Um, do you even play trolls?

>>52560164
Resentment.

>>52566108
Depends entirely on your color scheme. Probably white for Khador, because a black base will make it tougher to get bright reds to come out. Black works really well for earthier schemes like you might do with kossites, widowmakers, kayazy, etc.

That said, I'm a huge advocate of priming in an appropriate base color. I usually prime my warjacks in gunmetal, for instance. Saves a ton of time. A buddy of mine used a medium gray for most of his Khador (ironfangs and the like) and it worked pretty well. I primed most of my circle with a dark green, also worked good.

>>52569628
Of course the easiest solution is to just use an airbrush. Prime black -> zenithal white -> basecoat is something everyone can do. Case in point: I can do it.

>>52569652
>The easiest solution is to spend a ton of money on a glorified paintbrush
Nigger no. Buy small bottles of paint-on primer and just use that. It's cheap, doesn't take all that long, and you don't need to fuck around with taking models outside or worrying about your primer going grainy because you didn't clean the nozzle or the weather is too cold or some stupid shit.

>>52569602
>What is Gunnbjorn.
>What are 2-3 Earthborns under stone with a >Mauler and a Bomber or two.
>What even is the Krielstone?
>What even is an armor skew so hard you can't do shit and then you get buttslammed by multiple heavies.
>Have I even played this game?

>>52569743
You have no idea what you are talking about. The kind of layers you can do with an airbrush are nothing you can achieve with a regular brush. And if you invest a little into proper equipment you can use it indoors. Fuck priming by brush.

>>52570019
>Fuck priming by brush
I did all of my Skorne by brush. Including a Mammoth

>>52569561
So, like, is there a general order amidst the Khadoran army that if an old chick with an eyepatch, nasty metal talons, and a funky scrap warjack shows up, they do as she says?

That could be really easy to take advantage of.

>Khador buckles as a plague of Old Witch impersonators steal a king's ransom in weapons, warjacks, and munitions

>>52570821
How would the Old Witch feel about being impersonated?

>>52570821
I'd guess it's pretty hard to dissolve yourself into crows, even if you are a warcaster capable of looking like a grandma.

>>52569602
See, the only people that think the earthborn is bad are people who are either really bad or don't play the faction.
At least offer a counter to what i said.

As another example the Earthborn can be def 16, arm 20, immune to knockdown, have dodge and be under Star Crossed without much trouble.

>>52568791
There's a NQ where a common Skorne passtime is revealed to be throwing a cat back and forth between three people catching it on the points of knives until it falls apart in a bloody mess. Mortitheurgy and callous disregard for things that aren't Skorne makes them pretty damn hardcore sadists.

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>>52571423
>There's a NQ where a common Skorne passtime is revealed to be throwing a cat back and forth between three people catching it on the points of knives until it falls apart in a bloody mess.

And the award for 'edgiest faction' goes to...

>>52568862

They aren't infernalists, which is kind of the be-all end all. The Skorne Empire is just a conventionally shitty place to live. The utter wretchedness of being a medieval asian peasant in some places and times is underrated.

For that matter, the utter drapavity of what was good wholesome fun in the western medieval is underrated; the Gavin Kyle section mentioned Skorne soldiers amusing themselves by knife-tossing kittens- crippled songbirds as disposable toys for children was a normal thing historically (probably the same lifecycle and niche as a tickle-me-elmo, only more blood and pain to small creatures). That's just one thing.

It's also possible for a Skorne to live a life of esteemable, internally consistent honor and integrity; it's what allows the contrast that gives actual Skorne villians like That Goddamned Fat Fuck Rasheth. Xerxis is such a goddamned paragon that it got "I can make Renaissance Pope cringe in appalled sympathetic shame at the cynical and destructive abuse of the public trust placed in me, my spiritual duties and the reverence of my office" Zaal to take a prophesied shivving for him.

In summation, the Skorne are reproducible, they're fundamentally normal. They're just a kind of shitty civilization fucking around being shitty people. Sometimes their shit don't stink.

Orgoth were selling out reality and everyone's immortal souls for really good swords and bling. Different sort of thing.

>>52571727
>Zaal takes a fall for Xerxis
>And manages to turn it into heresy of the highest degree
You just gotta admire Zaal's ability to commit heresy at this point.

>>52570821
Pretty much. Standing orders are that if she shows up do what she says since it's usually for the good of Khador.

Keep in mind that she's a major figure in Khadoran folklore, almost everyone heard stories of her growing up. She also tends to use the 3rd Border Legion for most of her escapades so they're pretty used to it.

So, I mostly play Cygnar and Pigs, with a little Cyriss. Bit I pass free time every now and then by making lists for the other factions in the vein of "What would I play if I picked up this faction?" And I kind of fell in love with the Menoth list I made, and am wondering if people like the idea of my list. I call it, "Praise the Sunfire"

Severius1
-Hierophant
-Vigilant
-Blessing of Vengeance
-Castigator
-Hand of Judgement

Choir (minimum)
Wrack x2

Deliverer Arms Master x2
Deliverer Sun Burst Crew x2

Covenant
Exemplar Bastion Seneschal
Exemplar Bastions


Again, mostly just a list I made for fun, but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

>>52569345
Myra Ravellos, Human (Llaelese) Gun Mage/Pistoleer. Part time smuggler, part time resistance fighter, true believer in Free Llael. Hates almost all other Llaelese authority figures for either bowing to Khador or kowtowing to the Protectorate, mostly works with criminals who want the Kayazy out of Llael, because at least they’re not Menites or Menite-lickers.

'Sir' Artyom Makarov, Human (Khadoran) Doom Reaver/Knight (yeah das right, you read that correctly). Rogue Reaver who cut his way out of his platoon in a moment of lucidity, got taken in by Llaelese criminals as muscle. Angry and wracked by guilt, and has fixated on one of the souls in his fellblade, a Morrowan knight who he emulates in an attempt to assuage his guilt and stave off the constant gibbering.

Aryth Silowuyr, Iosan Arcanist/Seeker. An elf in self-imposed exile from Ios, joined the group late in order to get at one of the antagonists’ research materials. Considers himself a disgrace to his house for some reason, I’m sure it will come up.

Katya Vislovski, Human (Khadoran) Warcaster/Sorcerer. Northern country bumpkin who manifested warcaster powers and ran when the Khadoran military tried to conscript her. Considers herself more Khardic than Khadoran, was trying to get to Cygnar but ended up in ever-increasing debt to a Llaelese crime lord and has been stuck in Llael ever since. Naïve and easily spooked.

>>52572889
>cont

Akethea, Satyxis Raider/Blood Witch (homebrewed, basically a Bloodweaver). Flighty, impulsive, greedy wild woman who came down with a bad case of go and stay go after a power struggle among her fellow satyxis. The party saved her from being wracked and burned alive and she saw the opportunity to get an in with Llael’s criminal underground. Riding Artyom’s fellblade.

Bran Rockwethe, Human (Cygnaran) Cutthroat/Spy. Cygnaran secret agent inserted into Llael, he was the party leader until everyone realized he was a plant and was manoeuvring us to serve Cygnar’s agenda. Disobeyed his superiors on moral grounds and dismissed from service, but still a staunch patriot.

We just finished up stopping a soul casket full of Riven from being detonated under Riversmet by a radical “if it provides comfort to the Khadorans it has to GO” type resistance cell. Now the recurring baddie Greylord has it and we gotta stop it from getting to Cygnar, while also keeping ahead of the Cygnaran spy network that wanted it to blow up Riversmet and the Eldritch cult that gave it to la resistance. I’m getting strong third act vibes here. Which is a shame, because it's been a really fun campaign.

>>52572889
>>52572913
Your party needs a Gobber merchant for comic relief.

>>52572950
I admit, the lack of gobbers or trollbloods is a tragic running theme at our table.

>>52571607
I mean, yea, they've been edgy as fuck from day one.

One of the common things they do for honor guests is to feed them wine filled with the seeds of a specific plant, called the Mazak Fruit.

The way the plant works is that it waits for a living thing to eat it's fruit, getting the seeds inside it, and then the "male" plants will then sense the seeds, grab the creature, and spray it down with acid until it's dead. They then worm their way into the stomach, fertilize the seeds, and leave it to sprout into new plants.

So the Skorne specifically feed their valued prisoners this fruit as a wine, then leave them in a building surrounded by these plants.

>>52573119

That isn't so much "edgy" as practical and civilized DESU. Everybody else just throws your noble ass in an dungeon; that's comfortable house arrest with a low-maintenance Death Line.

>also there is a clear opening left in place
>if you are skorne enough to starve yourself, you can walk out
>and get into a fight to the death with the guards, which is also a culturally appropriate test of character

>>52572889
>>52572913
Holy crap that sounds like a lot of fun.... My favorite back story is the Doomreaver.

>>52569345

Alvan Brant: Human (Cygnar) stormblade/warcaster. Tries to act like a proper knight, but finds himself going somewhat nuts from trying to keep the party from getting their collective shit kicked in by Cygnaran authorities. Doesn't care too much about someone's race, just if they can help him fight Cryx.

Balasar Firetongue, Trollkin gunmage/soldier. Formerly enlisted in the Cygnaran military, and a bit of an outcast from the kriels in southern Cygnar after a fight with his family. Actually happy that he was recruited into the party as fighting gives him purpose.

Borklomkugona: A gobber Alchemist/explorer. Basically a bomb throwing anarchist in goblin form. Is a capitalist at the same time and is always trying to sell his wares when the party stops in a town.

Jagger ironsides, Human (Cygnar) spy/pistoleer. Basically James Bond in the employment of the CRS.

Vora Blackburn: A khadoran warcaster who joined the cult of cyriss due to her failing body. Is a bit of an outsider to the cult due to still liking steamjacks.

Olson Folk, Human (Cygnar) rifleman/ranger. A menite, he deserted the military during strykers little 'lock up all the menites' episode and fled to Ord. Eventually was tracked down and forced to join the party on threat of getting double gulag'd.

Sera Winthorp: Iosan Arcanist/Explorer. Surprisingly not a snooty elf. Figures that if they are gonna die, she'd like to see the world and learn about it all before she kicks the bucket.

The Investi-gator: an alligator man who likes to work as a private-eye. That's all I feel the need to say on him.

Quaker: the team's Hammersmith warjack. Voted best character by everyone.

>>52568696
Ol' Harkie's got you covered there, boyo.

>>52569345
We tried. But when a warcaster/arcmechanik wipe out TWO heavy warjacks in one combat with just a bit help from a gunmage, our grup fall apart. Bond+Cold runeplates make a great axe just an instrument of doom.

Hearing about IKRPG is making me want to play.... I've always wanted to, but not enough people I know want to play it.

>>52523504

> Gatorman Journeyman Starter Box
> Barnabas, Wrastler, Snapper, Boneswarm

As a newbie, am I correct in saying that this is just absolutely fucking horrible for a starter set?
It just seems set up to fail in almost every sense when playing a Journeyman league.

> Barnabas
Crit Consume, Blood Boon, Death March and Flesh Eater are all worthless when everyone is a robot.
> Bull Snapper
Low P+S, all his bonuses relate to living models. Worthless for hunting armour.
> Boneswarm
Pillowfisted, zero corpses to collect, paying points for something almost entirely worthless.
> Wrastler
The only model on the team who makes any sense. Fantastic beasty, Rage is everything.

It just seems like my strategy is to spam Rage and let the Wrastler solo their entire team.
How open are Leagues to letting people build their own starters?

>>52573928
its a terrible battle box

But you basically use the lesser warbeasts as decoys and road blocks so your waster or Barnabas can kills thing

>>52573837
Do you have a TTRPG group already?

How we got into it is that our regular GM just said she was starting a new game, and when we turned up it was IKRPG. That tends to work with getting people into new systems.

>>52573928
From my experience, each League is different. But you also have to remember that you will be forced to keep the BB models (sans caster if you want) throughout the league, including your opponents. Sure, week 1 will be hard, maybe week 2. But as soon as everyone gets a unit, suddenly your list got a lot more powerful. BB's are balanced with all weeks in mind, as they see most players getting their intro via a Journeyman. And if not, they ate probably buying their own models. IMO.

>>52574045
Unfortunately no. I've had the PnP itch for a while now, but no way to scratch it.

>>52573694
Harkevich did nothing wrong! All the blame lies on Irusk and Strakhov.

>>52573928
Well, the 0 point games seem bad if you get matched against anything but trolls, but I don't think in a whole Journeyman League it's the absolute worst, depending on how long it goes.

Personally, I would just buy Ironback Spitters and play the pop&drop gunline for hilarity. Might not beat anything, but it's funny.

>Makeda3
>Mammoth
>Give the Mammoth Greivous Wounds on its cannons
>Shoot something until it's crippled
Can it work?

>>52574578
It can. Problem is, Mak3 is terrible at defending the Mammoth, and has nothing to help it hit or boost it's damage.

>>52574605
The theory is that you don't need to boost its damage output when whatever it hits will be crippled next turn anyway. No one model can really do something like that in Skorne since Cannoneers only get one shot.

>>52574644
Yes, but you have to actually cripple it for that to happen. And while you leave it crippled, stuff that can boost it's ability to hit and damage can just kill the model, giving the same effect without having to kill it next turn.

>>52574700
>(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- Agonizer [6]
- Mammoth [38]
- Molik Karn [19]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

;^)

>>52573928
I mean at least it's not the Trollbloods box which literally can't even kill a Khador Jack

>>52576381
Bas use of literately.

>>52576381
Buuut, trolls have arguably the best caster out of the battleboxes. Ragnor is the only one who sees play out of all of them.

>>52576915
Wat.

Tanith and Helynna definitely see play.

>>52577348
Ragnor has the highest usage out of all of them, which combined with the fact that there aren't as many trolls in tourneys, speaks volumes. Ragnor and Calandra seems to be the most common troll pairing, though Calandra is pulling most of that weight.

Circle is filled to the brim with broken casters, so Tanith is a very rare sight. People always wanted their Wurmwoods, then they wanted their Unas and now they want their Kayas.

On Helynna I slept though, I have to admit. She is just a few entires away from Ragnor.

>>52576915
Personally, I think Maddox is underplayed. She is a Storm Knight, so she powers Stormclads very efficiently. She also has nice synergy with Sword Knights, making them really good jamming units and overall just has a solid Feat and Spell List.

File: Malakov2_75 (1).png (192KB, 409x649px) Image search: [Google]

192KB, 409x649px

Any experiences with Malakov2 yet?

I think he wants Juggernauts and Ragman, because otherwise his ARM cracking is lacking. Fortunately, talking "Fighting Dirty" to a Kayazy, Dog or Man-O-War is a near perfect way of fixing accuracy.

The Dog seems to be needed, because frontline 15/14 caster definitely needs help, which is also why I ponder about making a Juggernaut into a Rager, just for more protection. Fortunately, the Dog actually has great Synergy though (knockdown, charge, run back to safety).

Supremacy speeds Man-O-Wars up, Veil means I don't have to worry about terrain and Rifles are Rifles.

A thing to note, is that Malakov2 is in ADR, meaning I could potentially stuff things into a 40 point sideboard. What would be a good sideboard? I'd assume things that handle counters to this list.

File: Malakov2_75 (2).png (203KB, 409x687px) Image search: [Google]

203KB, 409x687px

>>52578472
Whoops, wrong build. But those two are the lists I theorize between.

I guess I'd need to test it.

>>52568696
Harkevich only tried to gas Cygnaran soldiers. Magnus is the one that set that shit off in city limits.

>>52577610
She also gives Storm Division pathfinder on a charge and brings an armor buff for your other unit of Lances alongside Arcane Shield. I agree that she's underplayed.

>>52578472
Any caster with Last Stand does not lack for ARM cracking. CMA with Iron Fangs, only one dies but it cleaves a jack or beast in twain.

>>52578981
Thank god Malakov doesn't have Last Stand then, I guess.

>>52579119
Disregard my comment I read that as Strakhov2. Juggernauts seem great with Malakov. Did they fix the infinite Sucker!s with Corbeau? In any case, ManoWar Shocktroopers don't seem bad with him as either Sucker! targets and for Tac Sup. Fighting Dirty might not be bad on something like Winterguard or maybe a faster unit to KD a heavy to then murder with your other stuff. The War Dog does indeed help his survivability in the midfield a lot. I'd try the 4-Juggernaut list first and if you get gunned down swap in the Rager.

>>52578670
in a carefully prepped and evacuated area, which only hit filthy reds. Hark is the one that stored all that shit within the populated city.

>>52580585
I think the worst part about this was the whole element of the Khadorians using it first.

No, what should have happened was that Magnus should have found that shit stored away, long forgotten.

Then he wouldn't look so obviously like the good guy in the exchange.

>>52580585
>Hark is the one that stored all that shit within the populated city.

No, he FOUND it in a populated city. It was stored there by the Order of the Golden Crucible.

>>52580875
typical Red propaganda.

>>52580652
>>52581000
From Flashpoint:

They’d been walking the northwest quadrant of the city for hours. He, Xavius, and a small contingent of men loyal to him. He’d told Stryker he would oversee the rebuilding of the west wall, and he had left Harrow and some of his other officers behind to do that. But he had accepted oversight of the construction efforts so that he could explore this section of the city with Xavius, looking for the ruins of the Order of the Golden Crucible guildhall. “We’ve been searching for hours, Xavius,” Magnus said. “Do you know if there even was a guildhall in Riversmet?”
The spindly Ordsman nodded vigorously. “Had to be. Devil’s gasp is not the kind of thing the Order would let out of their sight unless they had no choice.”
“Fair enough,” Magnus said. “That means Harkevich or his men must have found the stockpile, so we should find evidence of construction or at least a clearing, but there is always the possibility that the Khadorans took what was left with them.”

>>52581085
TYPICAL RED PROPAGANDA

>>52580652
IMO he's the good guy either way.

Khador are the aggressors, he could use Cryxshit on them and he'd still be the good guy. Just an edgier good guy.