Exalted /exg/

So when will Lunars be ready for 3e? I need to know when I can purchase Fox-Mother's Rebirth Technique again.

>>52506421
Here you go https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwZiXCIz14oCYlhwV1dEOWdmVVE

>>52506421
They're apparently going to try to get all of the major splats out the door by Christmas. So they can announce 4e in January, I assume.

>>52507198

Arms in three months, Antagonists and bestiary in the mean time. have they said anything about what comes after, except that Exigents and Lunars have been moved forward?

>>52507332
Dragon-Blooded and Realm are due between Arms and Exigents.

>>52507358

Still? Cool. Shame about Towes of the Mighty being pushed back as I was looking forward to Manses, but thems the breaks.

How does Over-and-Under Method work? I can't wrap my head around it.

Looking to gauge some opinions from experienced Exalted players before I start up some homebrew.

Lets say for simplicity's sake that an example starting Solar that you're playing begins play with 10 Charms. Nice, round number. Of those 10 Charms, how many would you like to nudge your odds of succeeding at a specific action 4-5%, and how many would you like to introduce new and meaningful decisions for how your character affects the story and setting? Does it change by Caste? If you're a Dawn, would you prefer nine dicetricks and one meaningful alteration to the game? If you're a Twilight, do you want the opposite?

Would a strawpoll help for this kind of thing?

>>52507198
No they aren't. They're probably trying to get the Dragon-Blooded out this year, with improbable luck maybe even Exigents, but there sure as hell won't be Lunars this year.

>>52507851

Make a clash attack (Fervent Blow). Note the damage you did. Make a counterattack (Flashing Edge of Dawn). Add the damage you did with the clash to the counter. Continue through the steps of Flashing Edge of Dawn as normal.

>>52507851
When a guy attacks you in melee at any time, you can activate Over-and-Under Method for 7m, 1wp.

This allows you to activate Fervent Blow for free to Clash that attack (even if it's not your turn in the initiative order). (see pg202 for special Clash rules)

After the opposed attacks of Fervent Blow's Clash are resolved, but before the actual damage and other effects of the Clash are resolved, you then activate Flashing Edge of Dawn for free.

Resolve the attack roll generated by the counterattack generated by Flashing Edge of Dawn, but do not resolve damage yet.

Now, if Flashing Edge of Dawn's attack was successful, add the damage it would've done to the damage that Fervent Blow will do.

Resolve Fervent Blow's damage n' such.

You have now activated a single Charm (disregarding anything else you want to modify it with, like multiple excellency uses)! A Charm which didn't even count as your action this round! I hope all the math was worthwhile to say, narratively, "A guy was gonna hit me, but then I hit him instead."

One roll in Fate. Just saying.

>>52508329
>One roll in Fate. Just saying.
BS. Fate Core has no such ability and *if* you add that in, you can add it in however you want. I could require you to suceed at an athletics roll to negate the opponents attack before you can the fight roll and still require you to activate an aspect to be able to act out of turn in the first place.

So yeah. You're just saying BS.

Think we're going to get actual stats for third circle demons this edition?

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>>52508134

It would depend entirely upon the character for me. If I were a Dawn for example, all of my Charms, every last one of them, would be put towards either killing my enemies, or not being killed by them. If I were a Zenith, I'd put them towards social-fu, to bend people to my will, etc.

Also "meaningful alteration" is a pretty variable term there. What one person considers meaningful will be different from what another does, and you can do a lot, and I mean A LOT, with just piling dice up. Dice are how you resolve pretty much everything, after all.

>>52508134
I'm having difficulty parsing what this question is actually asking.
For one, you're going to have to define what you mean by 'dice trick' because if you just mean charm that interacts with the mechanics then I'd like as many charms to be like that as possible. Also for some reason you seem to think that whatever a dice trick is doesn't allow new and meaningful decisions.
Mind giving me an example of each type?

>>52506421
Probably first quarter 2018.

>>52508380
So, here's the narrative we're trying to tell: "GuyA attacks GuyB with a sword. GuyA misses and is hit in return by GuyB's sword."

In unmodified Fate Core: GuyA rolls a Fight Attack. GuyB defends with Fight. They both roll once. GuyB succeeds by 3, parrying GuyA and putting the Aspect "Wounded" on him to disadvantage him in the future. On GuyB's turn, he's free to do whatever, because he hasn't used his action yet.

One roll on each side, no special abilities.

In Exalted: GuyA spends four hours figuring out what combination of Charms to use to modify his attack against GuyB. He checks off some resources and looks up stats on his ongoing permanent and scene-long Charms and his various artifacts. He compiles a spreadsheet of bonuses to roll an attack against GuyB.

GuyB activates Over-and-Under Method. After posting on 4chan to figure out how the poorly wording fucker actually works, he spends another four hours figuring out what combination of active and indefinite abilities will modify his first Clash. Does he want to reroll 1? Get double 9s? Double 8s? Do 10s get doubled on Decisive damage or is that just Withering? Do I have a Charm that does that? Shit, if I spend 5 motes this round my Anima will flare. Will that give me enough for the next round to add my +2 Soak Charm?

For good measure, he looks up the page reference the Charm gives to make sure he's doing it right. He makes his first Clash attack. It succeeds! He then makes a counterattack, which has its own special rules (which required errata from the dev, so lets hop on the Exalted forum for that shit), modifies it with a bunch of dicetricks, parcels out his resources, and makes another roll.

Then he rolls damage and spends an hour and a half going over his damage Charms and on which step of attack resolution they can be activated on. GuyA then counters with some defensive stuff to modify his Soak and Hardness.

Eventually, GuyA takes damage and a wound penalty that disadvantages him later.

>>52508678
I find this more likely to be when we see Dragon-Blooded. Arms is in three months, minimum. DBs will still need to be worked on for a while before the Kickstarter even happens, as they've said they don't even want to try that until the book is finished this time.

>>52508680
Wow, literally 8+ hours? Are GuyA and GuyB just illiterate?

>>52508914
Hyperbole aside, he is right that doing this in Exalted is going to require more rolling and more lookups than it would in FATE.

But if you're already the sort of player who doesn't go into panic attacks upon seeing levels of crunch above the very basic, this isn't going to be a fucking problem for you.

>>52508680
Honestly anon, this is kind of a horseshit example and a pretty terrible strawman all rolled into one.

It doesn't take nearly that long to make an attack roll or decide what charms to use, unless they seriously have some kind of mental disability. Shit, it doesn't take more than a few seconds if they're doing it right.

You're /dramatically/ overplaying how complicated this is. To an absurd degree.

>>52509000
Trips do not lie. If you can handle any edition of D&D, then you can handle Exalted 3E.

>>52509000

Not really. He's not using an apples-to-oranges comparison. The situation could also be modelled by a mundane clash attack, with roughly the same amount of maths as the Fate example.

No shit, if you add 700 magical powers, it complicated the system, but 700 magical powers would be complicated, regardless of whether the base system was Fate or Ex3.

>>52509197
Fair point. Solar Counterattack could do it too in just one go, provided you wanted your attack to be decisive. Over-and-Under is just there to make your riposte hit potentially extra hard.

>>52509000
Firstly, I appreciate that you were able to parse my dramatic hyperbole. Your ability to not take everything at its most literal is a kind of superpower here, I think.

You are also correct that there exists a certain kind of person who is willing and able to put forth the effort to shoulder Exalted's mechanical load with little, if any, detrimental effect on the pacing of the game (though, I'd argue, with little benefit).

However, I would like to put forth the following.

One. http://nobilis.me/doom-and-gloam
This is a game being run by the current head developer of the line, being played in by a mix of people that have contributed as writers for Exalted and their personal friends. They still constantly have to stop and ask how things work, and take time out to look things up, and rely on the GM to give them cues for stuff, and occasional go "Fuck, I dunno how this works. Uh, lets just do X." and so on.

Two. These general threads, going back years, have always been rife with people complaining about not having groups or, more so, having shitty groups. Or aggressively accusing one another of never having actually played the game to cover for the fact that the accuser has not actually played the game.

Perhaps, then, that this specific kind of individual is (1) uncommon, (2) often overlaps with personality traits that make them undesirable to play with for other reasons.

Perhaps a system that does absolutely everything Exalted does, but has less of a system mastery barrier, and therefore a wider potential player base, would be a positive thing.

http://imgur.com/rXP7RFY

This is why you don't engage with the Exalted fandom on the internet.

>>52509265
Fate fans and their "it does absolutely everything your system does" bullshit.

>>52509265
I would counter however that the game still seems to be thriving pretty well despite rules checks and occasional uncertainty, and the players don't really seem all that bad to have at the table.

And hell, even when I last played FATE rules lookups and especially asking the GM for cues happened plenty.

>>52509265
It's not the problem of the reader to recognize hyperbole, anon, it's how it completely muddies your point and makes you look like a bitter jackass.

PS so does the unsolicited plugging for fate as the answer to "how does charm work"

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>>52508397

We better. And they should be Solar tier, in terms of power.

>>52509495
Or else what, anon? What are you going to do if you don't, or if they aren't?

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>>52509528

Post on the internet about it, obviously.

Have some art for being a cheeky little monkey.

>>52509604
I'm a gorilla, thank you.

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>>52509630

Either way, they lose nothing by actually statting things out. The worst that could happen is they put out shitty stats for something, in which case, they can be eratta'd or ignored anyway.

>>52509702
I feel like Third Circle Demons are probably tied with Deathlords for the strongest NPCs in the setting that actually should have at least some stats.

>>52509437
On consideration, maybe my frustration is that, in having played in and GMed multiple campaigns of both Fate and Exalted over the course of years (starting at around the same time; when I branched out from D&D), and enjoyed both, I've come to a situation where I feel I can properly articulate why I think Fate's steamlined nature is superior for telling the same kind of story, but I don't think I've ever been given a proper explanation for the opposite perspective.

How does Exalted's granularity in terms of its multitude of powers, its buckets of dice, and its many-step resolution process better convey the fiction of a group of demigods unleashing their will onto a world that is lesser than them and reaping the consequences?

There is an answer, certainly, because as we can see, merely suggesting the opposite causes vitriol in all these Exalted superfans. So there is an answer! They just can't articulate what it is.

Why does a Magical Super Ninja require a discreet power to suggest that he may balance on a leaf, and another to say that he can strike swiftly, and another to say that he deals great harm to those he strikes? Why can we not simply agree that these are things a Magical Super Ninja could certainly do and, when there is conflict in our agreement, we roll dice? Why must we catalogue his every trick and power, and create a list of all the powers that he explicitly *cannot* do, until he purchases them?

Sure, we can do these things. They might not even harm our enjoyment. But why do them at all?

>>52509752
You could turn the argument around completely and ask why not have discrete powers for these things. My ability to drive a car or carve wood has nothing to do with my ability to drive a battle tank or sculpt wood. They're just different approaches to answer the same problem. What you should be explaining is why you prefer one over the other, but you should also understand it is a matter of preference, not objective quality. Your taking issue with how Exalted's designers chose to answer the question is someone else's issue with how Fate's designers chose to, otherwise.

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>>52509747

Deathlords need more logical stats though. The last 2 editions basically gave them everything PC's could ever have, retarded mote pools, plus a shitton of extra advantages atop that, and no weaknesses ghosts should have, plus they went out of the way to make Charms that should work on them, not work on them.

I understand they want "hurr I'm the boss type enemy", but shit. A Deathlord probably could've reasonably just walked into Creation at any time and punched a direction to death with half the shit they had access to. They didn't even need any plans or Contagions or whatever, their raw rule shit was more than enough to topple the setting.

>>52509752

Generally, 1e and 2e combat was 'balanced' around the idea that charm activation and action-tracking was going to be your big tactical choice. Since the game did not really present or push a battle-map or similar means of tracking character location information, the onus of 'meaningful game decisions' landed on 'Can I activate a Charm? What Charm should I activate? Can I afford to activate This or That?"

Like- any Simple Charm is intended to be a very clear "I am powering up. Do not let me power up." gameplay challenge. Of course we understand the whiff/splat nature of the game much better now, so that stopped being a fun choice.

Related to that, exalted 2e especially seemed to... 'want' for lack of a better term, more non-attack actions to happen during combat. You spend time readying weapons, taking movement actions, activating Charms and so on. And other mechanics denied you from attempting flurries like unstable footing or mounted combat.

And, fundamentally, one has to ask the critical question- are you here to play a combat game with game-style tactical choices and decisions, or a more narrative experience? 2e Combat in particular tried to do both and kinda stumbled hard.

Think of it like this- some people want 'combat' to be balanced from mortals up to say, Solars or 3rd Circles; they want any combat to feel like there's always a meaningful ebb and flow between players and opponents. That mortals can be threatening, or DBs, or 1cds, and so on.

Other people want the game to make statements of 'I am immune to the petty ire and steel of mortals- come face me, supernatural might alone!'

A lot of 2e Exalted was actually implicity intended to almost sort challenges into 'Are you supernatural or not' and a lot of people disliked that.

Back to the earlier question- some of the reason why Charms are so granular is because it's easier to remember instead of having a kind of large, all-in one 'Exalts do this' blurb to refer to.

>>52509752
Why use dice and rules when you can just think about a magical super ninja and jack off?

Group A prefers heavier rules with less "Can I do this, guy running the game?"

Group B prefers lighter rules and doesn't mind leaving more up to GM adjudication.

Your preference is not better than mine because you make ostentatious walls of text.

Also fate a shit, you a shit.

>>52509832
Personally when I played FATE I always found it to be a little bit on the swingy side; it was somewhat difficult at times to stack enough bonuses to make a major influence on the range of the Fudge dice. Not always, mind, but it happened enough times to note it.

But yeah, honestly, I feel the answer is just going to be one of preference.

>>52509752
The granularity in Exalted's powers help me realize the fantasy of playing as one of the Solar Exalted whose powers are derived from his skill. Your example of Magical Super Ninja doesn't work because each Exalt is highly individual and not all of them are capable of balancing on leaves or striking swiftly. Ten Leaf Kon, the Solar, has far different abilities to Perfect Soul, also a Solar.

That is my main complaint with rules lite Exalted systems, everyone feels the same. Plus, I just enjoy the crunch aspect of Exalted.

>>52509836
Yeah, I don't want to see no "lol mask of winters has every goddamn solar charm" shit.

>>52509752
Because anon, it is fun, to some, and they make the world feel more real, to others.

Now, for people who I do not count myself as one of, rolling dice is fun. And for some of these people, rolling dice modified with their signature power, supported by charms chosen for their mechanical efficiency poses an interesting puzzle. A game, not one of roleplaying, in that moment, but one of logic. Solving the puzzle of how to win the fight becomes the enjoyment, not the winning itself.

The other reason is that the more granular the powers, the more coherent the relative power levels become. What happens when 2 magic fate ninjas fight? Does the elder win? The one who trained harder? What if the one who trained harder trained in a weaker technique? Instead of putting this to arbitration the answer becomes simple. "Roll the dice, fucker" Not to say you can't have a coherent world without that granularity, just for some, like I, knowing exactly how strong someone is compared to another, instead of trying to reverse engineer from how strong someone is supposed to be feels much better.

>>52509752
The first thing that strikes me is that losing that level of mechanical granularity makes almost all exalts similar. If you simply have the trait 'can do cool things like balance on leaves' what makes one exalt different from another? Sure you could make them all into individual traits, 'can accomplish amazing bodily feats' 'can sway nations with his songs' 'can pierce a swallow from one hundred yards with an arrow' and so on, but at that point why not go all the way and make cool fun flavourful charms?
And that brings me to realize it's ultimately personal preference. Sure you could represent things in a more streamlined way like FATE but at the end of the day some people simple do not like that. They find it bland and boring for no particular reason, and like playing with all the mechanical bits instead.

>>52509752
>So there is an answer! They just can't articulate what it is.

Seems like people are perfectly capable of articulating why that is.

>>52509907
That whole having entire charmsets thing also made them completely monolithic. Sure lover was supposed to be this seductive social beguiler, but she also had every melee archery thrown dodge resistance awareness and war charm. She could totally 360 no scope one shot a tyrant lizard. Outside of their very few unique powers fighting any one deathlord was precisely the same as fighting all the others.

>>52509752
>Why does a Magical Super Ninja require a discreet power to suggest that he may balance on a leaf, and another to say that he can strike swiftly, and another to say that he deals great harm to those he strikes? Why can we not simply agree that these are things a Magical Super Ninja could certainly do and, when there is conflict in our agreement, we roll dice? Why must we catalogue his every trick and power, and create a list of all the powers that he explicitly *cannot* do, until he purchases them?
>Sure, we can do these things. They might not even harm our enjoyment. But why do them at all?
Same reason we classify him as a Magical Super Ninja in the first place: Structure. Sure, we can classify him as a Magical Super Ninja, and doing so might not even harm our enjoyment, but why do it at all? Because if we don't, the thing we're dealing with gets fuzzier. Can he run up walls? Shoot eye lasers? Translate the writing on an ancient temple wall?

If we just know he's Awesome, these questions are hard to answer. If we know he's a Magical Super Ninja, they become easier. If we know he has spent 6 xp to purchase Infinite All-Seeing Eye of Ancient Arts Long Forgotten, it becomes really, really simple. Different people will prefer different breakpoints, but it shouldn't be hard to see why people might prefer a different spot than you do.

>>52509832
...That's true!

But I'm not so much making an argument as, earnestly, asking "why?" As in, no really, give me your completely personal and subjective opinion. Why are these things good? Why do they feel good? Why does their absence feel bad?

I feel like I've made my own opinion plain. I don't like discreet powers because they feel constraining. My ninja can either balance on a leaf or he can't, no middle ground, based on whether he bought the Charm. And there are many Thrown Charms that all describe that I am good at throwing in different ways, but all I care about is how good I am at throwing, and not in what ways! The many ways, +damage here, +initiative here, etc, etc, they just feel like they get in the way of us telling the story of this ninja.

What sort of awesome story 'beats' have you had, when you've slammed your character sheet on the table and said, "No, motherfucker! This Charm says I can fucking throw this shit in exactly this way! There is no ambiguity here, so get thee fucked!" Does that happen? I dunno, that's sort of how I'm imagining the "discreet powers are better" thing going. They're discreet, but they're defined.

Aspects and such are less defined. The beats I enjoy are about that ambiguity. I ask the GM, "Can my ninja pin his shadow to the wall with a shuriken?" and the GM says, "I dunno, can you?" and I say "Fuck yeah!" and cool things happen. Cool things that couldn't happen if I needed a Charm to do that.

What is the cool beat that happens with less ambiguity and more definition? It's not an argument, I'm not putting you or your favorite game down, I just want to know!

>>52510003
A lot of you guys posted your opinions while I was writing this.

Just wanted to say 'thank you'. I've been posting here for years and never got good answers like these.

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>>52509907

Yeah, I never want to see them having that stuff ever again.

>>52509969

This was also another problem. I really hope they do a better job with the DL's this time around, and don't just push the "PC+5" button again.

>>52510003
>I ask the GM, "Can my ninja pin his shadow to the wall with a shuriken?" and the GM says, "I dunno, can you?" and I say "Fuck yeah!" and cool things happen. Cool things that couldn't happen if I needed a Charm to do that.

Actually, Charms are there to facilitate doing things easier/without a roll. Not that they replace the ability to do so without a roll. Your Exalt can balance on the thinnest branch with a roll if he succeeds, but a Charm might let him do it automatically.

>>52510003
I was rolling dice and coherent power level anon.

I suppose the best way to describe the difference is that between a group storytelling game and a more competitive mechanical one. When things are defined you have a much better chance of a mechanically cohesive and enjoyable mechanical experience, and the less defined the better chance of a satisfying group story creation experience.

I personally prefer the latter but I'm also autistic about relative power levels so when victory is achieved it means more that "The DM in 3 seconds didn't see anything wrong with your idea and so let it happen because any deeper deliberation would ruin the game flow." That kind of experience can be fun, especially in a one shot like Fiasco, but when I'm playing tens of sessions of game I want to make sure me and my players are getting what they deserve, and not just the coolest "visuals" in their story

At least not until they earn. And if you earn it, it always means that much more.

>>52509747

I agree Deathlords should be started, but 3CDs aren't just folks with superpowers, they're often conceptual things that don't engage in the same way as a humanoid would.

I'd like rules for engaging, say, Ligier, but fighting Ligier should be like something out of Shadow of the Colossus (but more abstract) rather than swording him to death.

>>52510003
Impossible should be the province of charms. I get what you are saying, but not limiting a character in any way is worse than limiting him too much. The best art is born from limitation.

The more freeform a game is, the more often it drives itself into a wall. Very few people feels empowered when everything is equally possible. Exalted is in a perfect balance between absolute power and absolute limitations, and that a big part of what is so interesting about it.

Pinning a shadow to a wall is a Thrown or MA charm. You can get it. Like all charms, you can even buy it on the fly, provided you have the xp and prerequisites. What you can't is simply willing it out of thin air.

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>>52510515

Everything should be susceptible to the good ol' fashioned murdering. One thing Exalted was always pretty up front about was just killing your problem was a way to solve that problem.

Note it might not (in some cases, definitely not) be the best way to resolve your problem. But a good ol' murderin' should always remain an option. So should every other possible way of dealing with a problem. I'm not advocating only swording something in the face until it goes away, just that it should never NOT be an option to deal with something.

>>52510515
>I'd like rules for engaging, say, Ligier, but fighting Ligier should be like something out of Shadow of the Colossus (but more abstract) rather than swording him to death.

Mm, I'm not sure I totally agree, at least in the case of Ligier. Some of the...weirder 3CDs like Munaxes, I could see being handled that way. But crossing swords directly with Ligier should be a totally valid thing.

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>>52510534
>Pinning a shadow to a wall is a Thrown or MA charm. You can get it. Like all charms, you can even buy it on the fly, provided you have the xp and prerequisites. What you can't is simply willing it out of thin air.

Pinning a shadow to a wall should be a Charm. Pinning a person to a wall (via clothing, or just by putting an arrow/whatever through them so hard it pins them to a wall) should be either a roll, or something you just do with a Charm, but can and should be both.

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>>52510553
>crossing swords with Ligier
>not doing the Eastern Tango and competing with trying to lead the dance

>>52510542
Yeah, I agree with this too. Honestly, if violence isn't the honest-to-god correct answer to a problem at least every once in a while, then you basically relegate the Dawn Caste to being at best a largely-agency-less meatshield minion for the rest of the Circle, and at worst an absolute damned liability.

>>52510568
I play more Dawn Castes than Zeniths, admittedly.

>>52510580
never been one for Dawns myself, though ExalTwitch's been doing a good job of giving me other thoughts.
Stupid sexy Rey

>>52510144
I've got my copy of 3e open and I'm having this really weird time reading through Charms. I didn't actually expect to find food for thought here.

I'm more used to the "lel faggot desu" responses, like that one anon up yonder. And, when I've gone to Fate communities asking similar questions, the typical response is "But, anon! You are one of us; do not concern yourself with those heavily mechanical peasants. Let us simply put our hands to our mouths and titter smugly about how long it takes them to resolve a conflict." which is pretty much the same thing but with more words.

But now I'm filled with more curiosity.

I'm looking at Fire and Stones Strike and for the first time I'm like "Fuck, I dunno. Maybe this exists for a legitimate reason." Conceptually, that line of thought is outside my comfort zone, but I'm there right now.

As I page through the core book, I still feel viscerally offended by the craft rules, but from what I've seen, that's this board's general consensus anyway. I find myself being glad that the one player in my gaming circles that was super into crafter-type characters also resolved not to play 3e until Alchemicals or Infernals came out. Which will likely be never, so I have thusly dodged a bullet.

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>>52510597

To be fair, Dawns were completely useless in every way for 2 entire editions (until 2.5/Dawn Solution came about anyway). So not playing them was just not intentionally gimping yourself.

Now though, due to Supernals, they're the only way to really get your murderboner on.

>>52510627
Likewise I will freely admit that I probably would have had somewhat less enjoyment from Ex3 if I weren't mainly a Dawn and Night player who never really was into playing Craft characters in either previous edition anyway, because I do acknowledge that Craft is the most problematic of the game's systems.

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>>52510627

Honestly, I can't name a single game that ever did crafting of any sort well. This doesn't excuse 3E crafting, but it just raises the question of why no one can make a decent crafting system. Shit just needs to be done easily and quickly, and crafting systems in games often want you to spend months of downtime on the most ridiculous things.

>>52510627
Congrats. You've learned a lesson most don't: engage with a game on it's own premises, mechanical or otherwise. Don't assume it's shit because you have an anchoring bias towards whatever thing you like.

Now if only we could synthesize this attitude into some kind of airborne pathogen, we could fix gaming culture because we'd be getting rid of tons of useless bickering.

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And have one last character art for the night, guys.

>>52506481
>Deadly Beastman Transformation
>Literally worse than the ones the QCs get in the book
Dropped so fast it burned up on reentry

>>52510627
I think a good general life tip is to do as >>52510672 says, and engage something on it's own premises.

I may utterly despise D&D for being a combat simulator and bad at facilitating any experience outside of that, but I can have reasonable discussions about its pros and cons without enjoying the game. Likewise, I may not enjoy a movie, and still be able to call it a fantastic film.

You don't gotta like it, you just gotta take the time and figure out if it's doing what it's supposed to do, assuming you're trying to have a discussion on it. What it's supposed to do may have 0 appeal to you, but that doesn't mean it's not appealing to anyone

>>52510003
In the same way that constraints help any creative development. I already have difficulty shutting my brain up with the combinatorial nature of the possibility space. I really do appreciate it when a system tells me what my character can't do in more explicit terms so that I can see the boundaries. It also ends up giving me a really good sense of back-and-forth when I create characters since I can bounce from concept to mechanics and back again, using the implications to further hone what I'm creating.

A GM has a hard time saying "no" to a cool idea so the tendency is that looser systems trend towards "awesome." If you want to make a tragic campaign/narrative, this works against you. When the system outlines what a character can't do in more explicit terms, it is essentially telling the player "no" in place of the GM, who can use GM-player goodwill for more meaningful denials. Looser systems can compensate for this by getting the player to also pitch against the PC sometimes, but this doesn't afford the GM much control over the nature of the tragedy and that can diminish cohesion. It also complicates the player's role at the table and most players tend not to GM because they can't take the added complexity of wearing many hats.

I love light, narrative systems in that they let the group cover so much more ground than crunchy systems. I love crunchy systems in that they reveal scene resolutions that the group couldn't have thought of without concrete prompting. Light systems don't get in the way at inconvenient times. Crunchy systems inherently back me up when my brain goes "but the established reality doesn't let you do that!"

I'd be interested in hearing how you typically run really restrictive narratives (e.g. fatalistic tragedy, horror, psychological) using a light system, without everyone effectively being a GM (e.g. Polaris).

>>52510570

By the same token, if every problem can be solved by sufficient application of violence, every other caste becomes nothing but cloak-holders for the Dawn.

I'm not saying their shouldn't be any violence required to dispatch Ligier, but it should be one step (possibly the last) of a process of dismantling him. If Ligier represents Malfeas pride and potency, then killing him should be a process of humbling and disempowering him. Overwhelming him in martial combat may be necessary, but not sufficient.

>>52511579
>By the same token, if every problem can be solved by sufficient application of violence, every other caste becomes nothing but cloak-holders for the Dawn.

True, but I never really implied otherwise.

>I'm not saying their shouldn't be any violence required to dispatch Ligier, but it should be one step (possibly the last) of a process of dismantling him. If Ligier represents Malfeas pride and potency, then killing him should be a process of humbling and disempowering him. Overwhelming him in martial combat may be necessary, but not sufficient.

That's a bit more reasonable, I think. Give the issue hooks for every sort of character to be able to make a meaningful contribution.

>>52510670
Does that include the manufacture of magical items?

>>52510029
I'm guessing it's because you made it extremely clear how much you hate Exalted and its fans every time you "honestly" "asked". Your "question" was simply a variation of

>Why are you all so stupid that you like this?

This is not the kind of question that you ask when you want an answer. This is the kind of "question" that you announce when you don't think there even is an answer and want to make that clear to everyone.

>>52510627
Don't look at Fire And Stones Strike. Look at One Weapon Two Blows.

The reason I suggest this.is because while FaSS has been pretty much the exact same thing for 3 Editions, 1W2B had changed each time. In Ex1 it was a straightforward action multiplier; hit twice instead of once without dicepool-splitting. In Ex2, mass Flurries became a core system element so it was relegated to a somewhat shit soeedbump.

In Ex3, though, it's something quite different. I didn't even realise this until I ran a campaign with a somewhat under-optimised Dawn, but the current One Weapon Two Blows is actually an entire combat approach hidden in a single Charm. The ability to make instant Decisives after pulling someone from high to low Initiative actually encourages you to create a character who doesn't max out JB and doesn't use artifact light weapons etc etc as the basic rules would suggest. Instead, you want to go second, eat up the initial attack and then come back with a two-up of deadly force that bypasses the game's inherent construction against single-turn kills. The way both the player and I approach the mechanics shifts immensely once this is in play; I can no longer rely on l tick-ticking up and down the Initiative track with my NPCs until one can Crash them.

And that's from one Charm. There are dozens and dozens and dozens of others that have similar (and often much more subtle - note Excellent Strike's ability to shut down "I feed on your failure" mechanics) ability to modify the expected mechanical flow of the game. The game's framework becomes contextual; not a sandbox for concepts like light games, but an ever-shifting maze of possible options.

Running Exalted 3E was a constant flow of surprises for me. You don't get that from FATE.

Do we actually know wtf happened with OK Holden and Morke? Did RichT just finally get sick of being docked around? Did Holden virtue signal so hard his Twitter caught fire?

All I can find is people Darkly Hinting and some griping about Miracles of the Solar Exalted. What actually happened?

>>52506185
So what is Exalted, like really? I know you told me OP, but almost any system can do that. What makes Exalted so good?

>>52512763
The high flying part.

With the right amount of charm, I can fly as much as one mile in the air. With sorcery I can fly several miles in the air, and very fast too. No other game is high flying like that.

D&D is low flying and slow flying too. Godbound is pathetic flying in comparison. The flying levels of WoD is usually so low I don't even.

How realistically can someone use Striving Aftershock Method and a high defense to just keep making grapple over and over again, relying on the bonus dice granted for giving up control to keep slamming the enemy with decent dicepools

>>52512830
>No other game is high flying like that.
[space game noises]

>>52512849
Space flying is no flying. Space isn't air. Checkmate.

>>52512863
But mister sir, what if my space game allows me to make a character that flies through the upper layers of Jupiter or the clouds of Bespin?

>>52512906
If such a game existed, it would be a higher flying game, alright.

Exalted will always be the highest flying in my heart. You can't remove that bond.

>>52509867

Let's be honest 2e was pretty much the following decision-tree

1) Did you have access to a paranoia combo

if NO then you die,

if yes then 2) can you maintain your combo through an extended period of time through 2-dice stunts

if No then better hope you are only fighting DBs or spirits

if yes then 3) can you spam instadeath attacks (grand goremauls, bad touch, instagib attacks) whenever your opponent burns through their essence pool

if NO then avoid most solaroids and if yes welcome to the big time.

Combat was incredibly slow and incredibly predictable because your essence pool/essence burn rate/paranoia combo basically dictated everything. You could just look at the stats and not really have to play stuff out at all and indeed it was often better to just handwave instead of playing out an incredibly long and boring duel.

2.5 improved this some but fundamentally the paradigm was broken just broken in a different way than 1e and the scene-long persistent defenses which made solars invincible.

My experience with 3e is still limited but in general the paradigm has been shifted but of course it makes a bunch of old time players mad that essence 1 solars can't effortlessly curbstomp a shit-ton of DBs at chargen anymore.

Boohoo

>>52509341
? Why did he get banned?

>>52513784
Because some forums don't find wishing violence on real people acceptable. As far as I'm concerned, such forums have their place, too. 4chan with its anonymity is great, but actually moderated forums with established usernames have both advtantages and disadvantages compared to that.

>>52513818
>threaten someone over the internet
>cyber bullying is bad
This is a problem? I mean he could be shitposting

>>52513845
Your point, anon?

>>52513859
I don't think he should get banned just because he wants someone to get beaten up

>>52513886
Okay. The moderators at SV disagree. This is because people expressing their desire to see other people getting beaten does not foster the kind of atmosphere that place strives for. It is a good thing that forums are allowed have their own rules instead of all being forced into the same mold, so what's the problem here?

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After testing the combat, my ST has decided we won't be switching to 3e. Tell me fun storytimes to cheer me up.

>>52511579
Killing Ligier may not be the best choice. It might not even be the choice you want to make. Killing him might cause so many problems that, under no circumstances, would you ever want to kill him.

But killing him should always at least be an option on the table.

>>52513973
Wait, why?

For the love of God, at least 3E uses turns

>>52513361
1) Did you have access to a paranoia combo
if NO then
2) is your ST interested in breaking the game when you won't just because of leftover antagonism from tactical boardgames / D&D or perhaps just to prove a point
if NO then
3) congratulations, your group seem to indeed be able to do which many roleplayers cannot, have fun with their pretend games. Enjoy Exalted!

>>52513912
The problem is that the other anon is Notanautomaton and pissed at getting banned.

>>52512735
RichT used materials cut from Core for Miracles. Since it is material cut from the book Holden and Morke were contracted for they didn't get paid for it. Since it's material published in a book they were not contracted for they didn't get paid for that either.
That's the TLDR from the two developers. Rich has not given OPP's version and never will, given how he seems to be made a nervous wreck from the slightest hint of questioning or criticism.
You know what I think? Rich and Holden/Morke are each overblown assholes in their own way and they pretty much ruined each other. Fine by me.

>>52514166
What's funny is, Holden and Morke knew this was OPP policy for years. They saw the same thing happen back in 2nd edition when they were working on Broken Wing Crane. They signed their contract with Rich for 3rd edition, knowing well in advance that he could and would do something just like this.

And then they get their panties in a twist when he does the thing they knew he was going to. Fuck 'em.

>>52510789
QC charms are way more powerful than regular charms. If you'd continue reading you would have seen a bunch of charms that give bonuses to deadly beast man in addition to their regular effects.

>>52514094

Anyone can rule 0 past the inherent flaws of the system. You obviously don't need to go full Chungxalted in order to have fun with the setting.

That being said why not play Exalted without the shitty system underneath? FATExalted was a perfectly viable way of playing within the exalted setting without having to sit through an incredibly clunky hack of the old storyteller system.

More than a few people quit playing exalted because 2e sucked so bad and 2.5 wasn't enough of a band aid and 3e took forver to get out and even now without DBs it's only a fraction of a complete game.

>>52513973

Kill your ST. Wear his flesh. And become the new Storyteller running 3e.

>>52513973
Your ST is That Guy. Run. Run far.

>>52514166
That part I followed, at least. But why are OK Hatewheel acting like they've been fired? "Services no longer required etc"

>>52509341

He got suspended from SV!?

Like the one remaining bastion for Exalted fans who were outcast!?

Good fucking god

>>52515041
Rich told Holden and Morke to get content out faster for Exalted. It's one of the OPP's cash cows, especially since it looks like White Wolf will be taking the rights back to the old World of Darkness.

Holden and Morke said, no, we're not going to make anything else for Exalted until you pay us for Miracles.

Rich said he wasn't going to do that because, by the contract they signed with OPP, he didn't have to pay them for the material that showed up Miracles.

Then Holden and Morke threatened to sit on Exalted until and not produce anything at all until he paid them, so he told them to fuck off and fired them.

Of course Holden and Morke are butt-hurt about this, but that's what happens when you decide to try and play chicken with your boss in the hopes of a payout.

If Holden and Morke had been busting out content for Exalted and getting several books a year, Rich might have been willing to give them a break. But they put out 1 book in five fucking years. They were not in a position of strength to negotiate with Rich in the first place.

>>52515172
He's just that shitty

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>>52513973

>>52514637
FATExalted was pretty terrible, anon

>>52515292

Not a good idea to play poker when your opponent holds all the cards. Do you have proofs?

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>>52511716

It should. Never once has any sort of fun ever been generated by trying to figure out crafting times or saying "X months pass while you do Y". Just make the shit quick for PC's to do and leave it at that.

>>52515292
Jesus fucking wept.

That's like a new level of Full Retard.

>>52510672

4e will always be shit and continue to be shit

>>52515743
Eh, it's an okay board game

>>52515697
I dunno. There's a degree to which Exalted is all about illustrating the absurd difference in capability between mortals and fully tooled-up Exalts. 2Es system tried to get to that "haha fuck you scrubs I built this in a night" thing, but people abuse it to make infinite cheese, so that Edition fell back on "nah the materials are a shit to get" which is OK but is back to months for crafting again.

Does anybody have that initiative tracker image, that looked like a snake curling back and forth over a pretty background?

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>>52513973

There once was a Maiden, whose GM was a shitter.

So gnashed and wailed.

And sought advice.

"What do I do!", she cried.

"You fuck off." they replied.

She fucked off.

And found a new game.

She was happy for a time.

>>52515713
The two of them just have big ego's and writing Exalted went to their heads. They thought they were the new divas of the RPG world. Turns out they're just a couple of knuckleheads.

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Saturn is the best girl. I want to send my satellite crashing through her aurora if you know what I mean.

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>>52516310

>>52506185
You know, seeing this, I really want to see a match Ligier against UCS without plot level powers.
Shit, I'd pay for it.

>>52509836
>A Deathlord probably could've reasonably just walked into Creation at any time and punched a direction to death with half the shit they had access to.

On a related note, I'd PAY to see that as well.

>>52516310
Saturn A SHIT.
Try Jupiter.

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>>52516495

I'd rather not pay to see enemy rules that badly designed. But either way it'd probably look like this.

>>52515952
>Maiden of Tiddies

Sixth Maiden Detected

I have some questions about Martial Arts in 3e if anyone would be kind enough to help.

First, when you use a MA style's weapon like paired swords for Steel Devil, does that allow you to use (Dex + MA) instead of (Dex + Brawl/Melee) for your attack and parry, or do you explicitly need to use a charm from a style for the action in order for an attack or defense to count? Or do you need to be in the Form?

Second, when you're calculating an effect like Doe Eyes Defense based on the intensity of a target's Intimacy, does that refer specifically to the bonus or penalty number (i.e. a minor Intimacy's +2/-1 to Resolve)?

Lastly, and more generally I guess, but when a spell or charm bases its damage on your current temporary Willpower which also has a WP cost of its own, do you calculate the damage before or after spending the cost of the charm?

What kind of currency do they use in Lookshy?

>>52516749
If you're using form weapons for a style you know (ie, have at least one dot in MA:Snake Style for using Seven Section Staff or Hook Sword), you can use either MA: Snake, or Melee. Likewise, if the style allows unarmed, you can use either Brawl or MA.

Your choice of ability limits your charm choice - if you want to use MA charms, you need to roll with MA, unless the charm specifically states it's compatible with other abilities. Likewise, if you roll with MA, you can't use Melee/Brawl charms, unless they specifically state they work with other abilities.

AFAIK, the rules don't prohibit using MA for an attack, and then Melee for a parry, but you'd still be limited to charms from one ability to a specific action. I'd personally say that if you're using a Form charm, you have to use MA for attack and (parry) defense, or the form deactivates.

Trying to keep melee and MA in parity for defense is probably a lot more costly than using MA + Dodge, anyways, barring specific builds.

>>52508567
I think the difference is between charms which enhance your capabilities versus charms that give you new one. A simple example: Excellent Strike gives you more accuracy (making you better at mortal things) while Glorious Solar Saber gives you a new power (something mortals cannot do).

Then the question is, which kind do you prefer?

>>52516810
Not sure if it's stated, but I'd imagine a mix of silver and jade, most likely without the paper scrip the Realm uses.

Silver makes sense for interacting with the rest of the near East, especially Nexus and the Guild, while Lookshy's significant population of Dragonblooded makes jade attractive as currency, crafting resource, and asset denial to Realm satrapies.

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>>52516740

It's a well known fact essence is stored within the breasts of women. Beware the bigger chests, because they mean power.

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>>52516810

Probably silver. Pretty much everywhere that isn't the Realm uses silver because it's less of a hassle. Jade is a MM, so all sorts of spirits/petty Gods/whatever tend to target large shipments of jade, the kind that would be needed to sustain an actual economy based around it. So using jade is an invitation for trouble. Silver doesn't carry this additional risk, so it'd make sense for them to use silver.

>>52508329

Fate also encourages you to intentionally fail at things, which is pretty anathema to exalted in general.

>>52516961
A good mix of both

>>52516810

Silver primarily because the bulk of their trade is with Threshold powers. Of course Jade is Jade so you can easily use it in Lookshy especially for big purchases.

Lookshy is probably big enough to support a paper currency ala Koku but it is probably only going to be recognized at allied states and big trading markets like Nexus.

>>52517052

>No DFC exalted

Nofunallowed.bmp

>>52517094

The rest of Creation started using Silver only in the last century. Before that a lot of the more developed civilizations used Jade. Silver is used now for those reasons. Hell Great Forks does. Lookshy has Jadeworks. So a lot of Creation still uses Jade as the true coin. Silver is just Guild focused.

>>52517497
Night castes can hide their Essence

>>52517094
>money is impractical because people want to steal it.

This is what Threshold barbarians actually believe

>>52517611

Are the Empress and Memnon the highest essence canonical NPCs excluding the Mailanka and other Lunars who can pretty much shapeshift into whatever form they want to?

>>52517687
Well, there's Ketchup Carjack, he's maxed out his Essence. Or are you talking about female NPCs?

>>52517687

What about the Sidereals? Green Lady. Gold Faction leader chick. Not sure about the later Essence but the Green Lady

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>>52517497

The Gods don't abide by the loli menace, thats the province of the Deathlords and Demons and shit.

>>52517858
You should post more.

>>52517757
Also Alchemical ladies that became cities

>>52514637
Ignoring "paranoia combat" is not Rulezeroing, it's realizing not every villain absolutely has to have a death-touch combo and an Artifact scythe (I forget what those are called) so your characters can play that as an exceptionally difficult combat instead of Tuesday night.

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>>52517917

I post a lot already.

>>52517752

Yeah I'm talking canonical female NPCs.

>>52517757

Green Lady is masquerading as Deathknight isn't she?

>>52517858
I guess all of the the female Deathlords should be massive tittymonsters being essence 10 solar shades unless they've chosen to manifest as a dreadloli

>>52518005
>Green Lady is masquerading as Deathknight isn't she?

Or shes masquerading as a loyal Sidereal, not even she knows.

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>>52518005
>I guess all of the the female Deathlords should be massive tittymonsters

Most of them are, is the funny part.

Also

>every pic I've ever posted in these threads I've used in an Exalted game
>I never run magical realm games, either
>you're forced to take this shit at least somewhat seriously, because you might never know who is an Exalt and who is just a mortal in some encounters

Feels good, man.

Did they ever resolve whether the neverborn still had fetich souls (or undead fetich souls) or if the neverborn as a virtue of now being neverborn have no subordinate components. In essence their essence has collapsed in on itself forming blackholes in the shadowlands

>>52508134
>>52516961

Ideally, I prefer if a good number of charms are capable of both. Or at least, well enough thought-of or described so that it would not be too difficult to achieve the other through stunts and creative use.

Is the 3e character creation program that had chunks of the book copy pasted into it still online or has it been taken down?

>>52514093
Said something about not having time to learn the new system AND keep running our regular campaign. Had trouble with initiative and the different types of attacks. Also, I think one of the players was explaining things in a way that made them sound more complicated than they are.

>>52518101

In 2e they made some of the Hekatonkhires former souls of Yozis while others were Behemoths. In 1e Hekatonkhires were just normal Behemoths. In 3e there is no word. So basically maybe.

>>52516920

Thanks so much for your help! I'm sure a lot of this is intuitive, but the new MA rules have proven the most confusing for me.

>>52518313

Yeah your storyteller needs some help. 3e is so much easier to run on the storyteller side.

>>52518101
IIRC somewhere in 2e lore they mention that the Nerverborns had all of their sub souls killed, which is how they fell to the Underworld. It was my understanding that they used their souls' remains to "exalt" the deathlords.

>>52517944
I don't think you understand. Paranoia combo is not something you can opt out of. If one of the PC's decides to make themselves that build they will automatically beat every single enemy you throw at them by default. The only way around this is to tell the PC's to not build like that which most are not going to take kindly to.

>>52518546

Exactly, either your group has to decide collectively that they aren't going to build characters around paranoia combos or they are but it's pretty much a binary choice, once the PCs go paranoia then the GM has to go paranoia or vice-versa.

RPG.net had plenty of people that pretended like Paranoia was just whiteroom exercises but the simple fact of the matter is that once you go down the chungxalted hole then the game becomes dull as dishwater which is honestly part of the reason why so many people abandoned it because why pay for an expensive collection of books when the underlying mechanics suck donkey balls.

>>52518413

I personally find 2e easier to run.

Well, easier to run like a clunker car. Sure it's easier to fix than the sports car, but it'd break down five times on the journey.

>>52518723

In what way is it easier? Not being snarky I am just curious as to why you find it easier.

>>52516749
Regarding #2, see pg. 170. Charms that gain a bonus off of an intimacy treat Minor, Major, Defining as 2, 3, and 4 points, respectively. So, the same as the resolve bonus, not the penalty.

For Doe Eyes Defense, that means if the enemy has a major positive tie towards you, they take a penalty equal to (your Guile + 3).

>>52518546
>>52518636
I fully realize that, but not all groups browse the net for playstyle suggestions, and not all players will chance upon optimal use of the combo system by themselves. It's possible to play an entire story without developing the paranoia suit simply because no one at the table thinks deeply enough of the mechanics; I've seen that happen.

Consider this: we call it Chungxalted because the person who coded and pupolarized it had a proper name. If it as so obvious and widespread there would be no sense attaching a specific face on it.

>>52518878

Well also because Chung is a douchenozzle so you want to warn other people from turning into Chung 2.0

>>52518747

I had an automated tick tracker for 2e, which made turns really easy. Also you didn't need to worry about withering vs decisive attacks and just plain attack.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still saying 3e is better. Just that 2e is slightly easier to run, but any pros are incredibly minor compared to the vast overall improvement of 3e

>>52518928

Ah. I just use notepad or a scratch paper to keep track of initiative. When the player goes I put a little star next to their name to denote they went this round. Any tick tracker thing I had for 2e was clunky and I loathed using. And the decisive versus withering thing is really a braindead choice but I guess it is slightly more complicated. Compared to the inherent lethality of combat in 2e though and not wanting to be a douchebag and kill players for one mistake the extra layer makes it so I can come up with challenging fights easier. So its a trade off between during combat work and pre-planning work.

>>52518928
>>52519159
I use this

http://bartkusa.com/ex/

I'm building a craft-supernal Exalted, and if everything goes as planned, I'm gonna have more Artifacts than I know what to do with. So, are there any consumable/1-use Artifacts that I can build, like magic grenades or potions or something like that?

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I'll be someone's internet slut (in public and private) in exchange for a solo or very small group game.

Also I'm going to keep posting this image until I find a game.

Add me on Discord: Memette#2700

>>52519528

> So, are there any consumable/1-use Artifacts that I can build, like magic grenades or potions or something like that?

Artifacts are not one use things anymore. Such a thing would be more like workings.

...Or craft really. Just make a craft charm that says "I make alchemy super well" and go from there.

>>52519592
What are you into?

>>52518878
It's also possible however to fall into that playstyle without even meaning to. You don't NEED high-essence doom combos and grand goremauls. You literally just need to have people attack from surprise. That's it. A mortal fucking archer attacking from surprise will splat the strongest Exalt unless he has a surprise negator.

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>>52519592

>>52518313
>Also, I think one of the players was explaining things in a way that made them sound more complicated than they are.

His screenname isn't Shyft, is it?

>>52519635
I have a lot of personal favorites, and most things that I wouldn't seek out on my own are still fine with me. It'd be easier to list my offs. I can be specific if you add me.

>>52519528
Where are you getting all the MM from?

>>52519863
I added you already.

>>52519883
I have no pending friend requests. Send me a message.

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>>52519872

Given one of the most used currencies in the world of Exalted is jade, it's probably not too hard to find an enterprising spirit/God/whatever, just rob a cartload of jade with them, and split it 50/50.

Then use the jade for actual artifact crafting.

>>52520114
Money jade is not MM jade.

>>52520114
Robbing Realm jade shipments is the kind of thing you plan a whole campaign arc around, though. They defend that shit like crazy. Even with assistance from spirits, you're looking at serious military escort with a good number of Dragon-Blooded on tap.

>>52520210

It explicitly is in 2e, and there was laws in place to prevent people making artefacts with it.

>>52520210
It actually is; a lot of new-production jade weaponry and armor uses as material the leftover bits formed when carving obols out of jade shekels.

What level of Sorcerous working would I use to turn an ore cart full of gold into Orichalcum?

>>52520306

Solar Circle if anything, the methods of creating Orichalcum are lost to the ages, and it would take some heavy duty Solar Twilight-ing to reinvent it. After rediscovering the recipe, it might be only Celestial Circle for subsequent workings.

>>52519953
But I am too shy.

>>52520306

Isn't that normally a Craft thing? A Superior project, surely?

>>52518870

Oh, hey, thanks a lot! I can't believe how I totally missed that.

>>52520239

No one said it had to be a Realm jade shipment.

>>52520612
I'd allow it with either, given the state of Craft in 3e.

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>>52520626
>No one said it had to be a Realm jade shipment.

In that case you're probably going to be COMPETING with the Realm to take it, because jade shipments big enough to be useful that aren't headed to the Imperial coffers cause pic related in the Realm.

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>>52520677

Not unless the Realm wants to start some kind of war with another country. Or whoever else can afford a cartload of jade, like a Guild member.

>>52521100
>Not unless the Realm wants to start some kind of war with another country.

You mean that thing the Realm has done throughout their history and continues to do because it considers all of Creation to belong to it?

>>52521100
>Not unless the Realm wants to start some kind of war with another country

I mean. Yeah, they do. Always. Being objectively the most powerful empire in the world does wonders for your desire to pick fights.

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>>52521148
>>52521294

That they're also probably not going to do while the country is about to tear itself apart in civil war while a mongoloid sits on the Empress' chair, having 12 hour jerk off sessions over religious texts.

>>52521303
Eh, not all the legions are hurrying back. Plus all that jade would be very attractive as a resource for any House wanting any advantage they could get in the war to come.

>>52519872
Guild Contacts. They get me materials, and I turn half of them into artifacts and give 'em back.

>>52513361
For the love of God.

There is exactly 2% of 2e Exalted players who know about paranoia combos and what that means and how to exploit them.

Paranoia combos were never an issue, anon. Only in the strictest circlejerking of the official forum full of autistic manchildren were they an issue.

>>52521520

Only I've played in quite a few games where accidently killing someone entirely too easily was an issue, even with new players.

>>52521520
Paranoia combos were a symptom of a larger issue of instasplatting.

>>52519592
I'm gonna send you an invite and run you on a solo game. But you'll be squarely in my magical realm. If you can't handle that, you're out of luck.

>>52521543
The hyper lethality of 2E IS the issue. Paranoia combos never were.

When your conspiracy theory begins with paranoia combo, it invalids pretty much everything you're saying.

>>52521581

Which Realm?

>>52520210

That was the whole point of making currency out of jade. The Empress wanted the realm's treasury to naturally become the greatest stockpile of artifact material in creation.

>>52521520
>There is exactly 2% of 2e Exalted players who know about paranoia combos and what that means and how to exploit them.

You only may be right if you're saying that exactly 2% of 2E Exalted players haven't dropped the system after their character got splattered in a fight that was supposed only a moderately challenging.

Perfect defenses (and persistents before them) are not some sort of advanced system wizardry you can only learn from reading CharOp boards.

They are basic fucking feature of the game system, and it is impossible to read 2E Corebook's Charm chapter without noticing that perfect effects are supposed to be important.

Perfect paranoia (and stacked persistent paranoia) haven't evolved in all games, true, because some GMs were playing softball enough to make the "paranoia" part unnecessary. This absolutely did not change the fact that 2E combat was full of perfect spamming, and therfore boring as shit.

>>52521632

Also the Fair Folk hate Jade and it was always the coin of the Realm both Old and New.

>>52521587
The paranoia paradigm was a separate issue, as if paranoia combat had still managed to be exciting and interesting it wouldn't have been as big a deal.

>>52521653

Its so funny too. When you bring players out of 2e into 3e and they only have ever seen Exalted through the 2e lens its like exiting The Cave. At first they don't understand how perfect defenses don't exist anymore but then they discover a whole new world.

>>52521694

Meant >>52521694 for >>52521645

>>52507332
>>52508168
Supposedly (ACCORDING TO HOLDEN) the Charms are already written for all Celestial Exalts.

So all they need to do is hand out fluff assignments and polish the rest of the design.

Then announce 4e in January.

>>52521694
I really like how perfect defenses work in 3e. They're back to being "OH SHIT" buttons for emergencies that you can't spam. And in many cases they're not strictly perfect, either.

>>52514094
>2) is your ST interested in breaking the game

Having a fight where PCs have a slight illusion of being in danger =/= "breaking the game". Such fight had an unfortunate tendency of instagib players in 2E. Without using perfects to treat your Essence as lifebar, the distance between "fine" and "dead" was ridiculously small for a game with no resurrection, and a fodder spirit with Principle of Motion and some luck could drive through it in a single action.

>pretend games.

See, Let's Pretend does not involve reading through hundreds of pages of crunchy tactical rules.

>>52521716

>Charms are already written for all Celestial Exalts

That seems pretty cool. Writing them concurrntly llows you to tweak and balance them against each other on the fly. Suddenly interested in Sidereals and Infernals.

>>52521587
My group fell into paranoia combat by accident.

One day the ST killed my character with an Earth Aspect Immaculate armed with a Grand Goremaul. I made sure to pick up a cheap perfect defense on my next character and pretty much spammed it during battles so my new character wouldn't die.

The ST responded by trying to figure out ways around my perfect - ambushes, flaws of invulnerability, etc, because he wanted the game to be "challenging" and "fun" and felt that when I could shrug off the most powerful challenges he could throw at us, then I must not be having fun.

When he would figure out ways to bypass my character's PD's, I respond by picking up new ways to tell him, "Nope," and then he had to come up with new ways to threaten my character.

Then it dawned on everyone at the table that the opposition the ST was creating to challenge my character was literally impossible for the rest of the players to fight against, so the players responded by picking up perfect defenses and perfect attacks.

Eventually we all decided it sucked, and we simply stopped playing Exalted altogether. When 2.5 was released, we came back and tried it out. It wasn't great, but it had fixed many of the worst problems.

If hyper-lethality didn't exist, then paranoia combat wouldn't need to exist either. But because it's so easy for characters to die in one hit, even accidentally, then the natural result is to choose options that make you harder to hit, which in turn creates paranoia combat.

>>52521716
Holden has said lots of things that turned out to be untrue. Why would we believe him on this?

>>52522223

Reminder. Holden and Morke are liars.

>>52521716
Holden isn't your source, notanautomaton, Shyft, Dragonmystic, etc etc. Don't lie.

>>52521716
Where on Earth are you getting that from?

Let's say you were going to fight a deathlord and his army in 3E, and your goal was to last long enough and create enough of a distraction for another circle to get a macguffin out of their control. You have a master Solar craftsman (who successfully understands all of the Craft charms) and the resources to build any one thing. What would it be?

>>52522522

Warstrider, N/A rating.

>>52522599
That's about the best answer assuming you have the resources and time. What Essence is the Crafter?

>>52522522
>You have a master Solar craftsman (who successfully understands all of the Craft charms) and the resources to build any one thing. What would it be?

I want him to build me a new Sword of Creation.

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>>52522208

Funny part is the hyper-lethality came about because in 1E, it was too hard to kill people. Soak meant a lot more back then, and stacked persistents meant you never got touched anyway.

>>52522612

Likely not relevant. Spuernal Craft lets you buy anything and you can technically hit Solar Sorcerous Workings even with Terrestrial Sorcery.

>>52521716
>(ACCORDING TO HOLDEN)
Where? Certainly not on the forums or on his Twitter anywhere.

>>52522612
We'll say Essence 5 (since there's no rules for Crafting above 5) and one year.
>>52522599
>>52522622
Which would be stronger in 3E?

>>52516553
>>52516495
On a conceptual level this is amazingly hilarous.The big bad ghost overlod wanting to destroy the world just leaves his fortress, his kingdom and looks far and wide, seeing the world he wants to destroy, before, in a scream of rage ¨DIE CREATION!¨, he starts murdering the world by punching it. And it works.
This right there is when shit hits the fan and both the fan and the shit splatter all ofer the place because exalted hits its logical conclusion.

>>52522655
It matters because the Charm Thousand-Forge Hands says the forging and actual act of making the Artifact for getting a roll Interval takes no longer than (6-Essence) months, that Essence doesn't scale with your Supernal. N/A Artifacts with everything still take I think on average 2 rolls to get done so if you're Essence 5 then you can crank that bad boy out in 2 months.

>>52521581
Well, add me and we'll see.

>>52522687

Sword. It's a network of N/A and 5 dot Manses that come together to power a WMD capable of hitting any point in Creation. The Balorian Crusade came to a brutal, abrupt end when the Scarlet Empress activated it when she first siezed power. The fact that it is built on the Pole of Earth may have something to do about it.

>>52522741

Good Point. Warstriders are magitech, and that means completing a Sorcerous Working before every Craft roll.

Huh, according to Vance, he'd like to do a Storyteller's Guide for Ex3.

>>52522522
Artifact N/A Deathlord repellant

>>52522802

I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT WE NEED ONE FOR MONTHS!

AAAAAA

>>52522815
That could actually work. A mixture of solar and elemental essence that repels all death stuff around a city.

>>52522802

Would like but not need.

>>52522799
Sorcerous Workings would likely be the thing that will gate you, with enough Craft Charms that shit happens fast, no way to speed up Sorcerous Workings except to roll better and there's precious few things that boost those rolls.

Sword would obviously be stronger but that's outside the time span of 1 year. That's multiple N/A Artifacts and Manses all linked together with who knows how many Sorcerous Workings. It was built with the full might of the Exalted Host and is likely one of the most complex projects performed by them. It is simply impossible to duplicate as a single Solar in any sort of time frame that is reasonable.

>>52522799
Building a single system would be considered several parts in this situation I believe.
>>52522815
I just realized I never thought about really powerful consumables .

>>52522880

SWs have an interval of one week, same as crafting an Artefact for an E5 Solar.

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>>52522694

And thats why we don't talk about 2E Deathlord stats. Like I said, it was basically PC++++. Anything your PC's ever could do, they already had, and the only reason the setting was still around was because those stats likely never should've existed in such a terribly flawed state.

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>>52522815

>>52522694
Punch? Nah, it was decided long ago that they would simply stand on top of the Imperial Mountain and use their infinite range infinite action charms to kick every last inhabitant of Creation into the mouth of Oblivion. Hence the name "Creation-Slaying Oblivion Kick".

>>52522908
Yeah but the dice trick simply don't exist in Occult like they do in Craft, depending on the Circle and Ambition it could take them multiple intervals, taking more time to complete the Sorcerous Workings than to actually finish the Artifact. However the Workings would have to be completed before the roll.

The exact rules are unclear but it says N/A Artifacts require "at least one Solar Circle working and multiple Celestial Circle workings." An N/A Artifact will require at least 2 rolls for all the successes needed with each roll taking at least 1 Month at Essence 5. You might be able to get away with 1 Solar Working for the first roll and 1 Celestial Working for the second which would add at least a couple of more months to it, but that's still within the 1 year that was laid out. Then some more time to account for the gathering of the materials and the prep which Thousand-Forge Hands doesn't cover. So, pretty doable.

>>52522958
That was my idea.

>>52522976
Wasn't that also possible with sidereal charms and Citrine Poxes? A lot of things can unexpectedly attack all of creation at once in 2e

>>52523033
I think it might have been, yeah. Though my personal beef with Citrine Poxes was that it was one of those Martial Arts styles that incredibly inconsiderate players who loved to spotlight-hog could use to essentially force the entire rest of the party far away from the center of the action because of the instant doom aura its Charms granted.

>>52523083
But, you have to admit, punching someone into being so sick his organs fall out, is pretty sick.

>>52523115
Oh yeah that was always pretty cool, it's just it's a lot less cool when your own allies have to run away or end up coughing THEIR own organs out.

>>52522922
Honestly that's why a essence 6 plus charmset is cancer.

Solar circle sorcery is essence 5 so essence X level charms have sorcery+++ effects but you need to be elder exalted in order to access them.

It's the owod antedilivulian problem pumped up to the nth degree.

>>52514050

The discussion wasn't "should Ligier be killable?" the question was "how should Ligier be able to be killed?"

>>52523314

And what happens to Malfeas afterwards?

>>52523314

>killing Ligier
>ever

Legier is Exalted's version of Lady of Pain. You don't roll attacks with him, you roll 1d10 and that's how many Exalts die per turn.

>>52523371
I guess the Primordial War was a one time off thing where you can kill Primordials.

So what's peoples thoughts on Clutch of Dragons, the homebrew conversion of Dragonblooded?

Personally it makes me wanna play an Ambush Archer

>>52523371
There are so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to start.

>>52523007

That's one of the things that upset me most about 3rd edition, to the point that I ended up writing out a custom occult mini tree for sorcery

>>52524324
I feel it's very intentional, Sorcerous Workings are incredibly powerful at the upper end, the lack of dice tricks was a method of curtailing the number of Solar Circle workings people could do.

People constantly bitch about dice tricks and how they could have easily made generic ones like Excellencies but that is ignoring the fact that double 9s or reroll 1s are deliberately absent in certain Charm trees for sake of balance.

Imagine Melee getting the type of dice tricks Craft has, it would be ridiculous. That's because Craft needs to hit 100+ Successes in a limited amount of rolls while Melee doesn't and if it could it'd just be even more ridiculous. For a closer comparison, Vance recently stated that porting the Rerolls 1s Charm tech, which exists in the very first Melee Charm so clearly it's not intrinsically high powered, over to Brawl would be very sketchy and he wouldn't do it because Brawl shouldn't have that type of accuracy booster.

I feel the lack of dice tricks to boost the efficiency of Sorcerous Workings is a very deliberate design decision to prevent Solars from just pumping out world shaping Sorcerous Workings.

>>52524463
>I feel the lack of dice tricks to boost the efficiency of Sorcerous Workings is a very deliberate design decision to prevent Solars from just pumping out world shaping Sorcerous Workings.

I think the issue is that a lot of people WANT Solars to be able to do just that.

>>52524522
It's already very easy to spam lower level Workings which I feel is too much by itself, Sorcery is simply too good for what it is, providing too many good answers to too many problems.

Allowing Solars to rack up even more successes means the Workings come out much faster. Even if the interval is long from jumping Circles, that's still fucking quick when we're talking Solar Circle Workings.

>>52524603

Keep in mind that some of the current players want magitech factories like 2e Twilights were able to generate by abusing the fuck out of 2e WST.

Now arguably WST has been nerfed too much in 3e but 2e was a shit show

>>52522694
>The big bad ghost overlod wanting to destroy the world just leaves his fortress, his kingdom and looks far and wide, seeing the world he wants to destroy, before, in a scream of rage ¨DIE CREATION!¨, he starts murdering the world by punching it.

That sounds more Malfean than Deathlord

>>52519817
Why?

Storytime?

>>52525268
Apparently he's just some faggot who posts at SV infamous for making up bullshit about Ex3 to make it sound a lot worse than it actually is.

>>52525347

He did the same thing for 2.Xe. He believes anything made by Morke and Holden are terrible and is one of those people who pine for the 'pure' 1e days.

>>52525437
I'll give him that up until Ex3 1e was probably the most playable Exalted edition, but jesus it still had problems.

>>52525534

1e was okay for the most part if you just accept the presence of scene-long persistent defenses.

Granted 1e Lunars was awful and some of the other fatsplats were meh but overall the relative quality was pretty decent and it stayed somewhat true to Grabowski's vision although there was fairly significant variance in terms of theme and feel from the 1e core book almost immediately.

2e of course was built on a shaky foundation and then fucked over by shitty copypasta and loads of shitty freelancers.

I don't mind Morke and Holden as developers and 3e overall seems solid but holyfuck who the fuck thought they should be the public face of exalted?

>>52525672
Yeah it's a bit weird reading the 1e Exalted corebook and some of the fluff therein.

>>52525714

Yeah, 1e went from being Epic of Gilgamesh and Trojan War meets Romance of the Three Kingdoms to Gurren Lagann within a handful of the 1e releases and 2e of course went full magitech almost immediately

>>52525765
Not just that, there's a few lines of thought and terms in there that I don't think got repeated much. Like I think the 1e core makes reference to "The Tellurian" at some point, and I think it implied all the Sidereals lived in Creation disguised as randos rather than working from Heaven.

>>52525818

To be quite fair Yu Shan was a mistake. Having a city the size of China (assuming Realm is roughly the size of China) is the typical stupidity that got us the Imperial Mountain being a hundred miles high.

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>>52525847

See, that is meant to show off scale and epic-ness of scope. Thats a good thing. Thats the sort of stuff Exalted needs.

An actual example of something stupid is thinking the Realm can possibly defend that amount of land with the people it has set to defend it. The scope is fine, it's the details that need tweaking so the scope works.

>>52525847
The Blessed Isle is actually about the size of Russia.

>>52523371
The size of the Imperial Mountain was a nod to Mount Meru in Hindu mythology. I'm sorry if you can't handle mythical things.

>>52525922
And then Dreams of the First Age explained the joke by actually CALLING it Mt. Meru.

>>52525898
>An actual example of something stupid is thinking the Realm can possibly defend that amount of land with the people it has set to defend it.

The Realm literally has 10,000 demi-gods running around, as well as the most powerful super weapon in the setting. I don't think they really need to be too worried about getting invaded.

>>52525970

Unfortunately, sheer land mass makes that not mean shit, and their weapon isn't currently working, and using it on the Isle itself might be a bad idea.

>>52525970

The scale of the setting is beyond stupid given the limited number of exalted and troops.

You'd need hundreds of legions to keep the realm protected much less the threshold.

Cities are months apart unless you assume magitech flying devices are common place but they aren't.

Exalted went with Bigger is Better when in fact Bigger is just Bigger

>>52523485
>I guess the Primordial War was a one time off thing where you can kill Primordials.

That depends on whether or not the Three Spheres Cataclysm still happened in 3e.

>>52509369
I mean. It does. It scales from very uncrunchy to the CRUNCHIEST.

>>52512763
The burning dumpster fire that comes gratis.

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>>52518413
No it's not.

Can you tell me what a good challenge for an Essence 2 full Solar circle is?

Because Holden and Morke sure as fuck can't.

>>52527345
>Can you tell me what a good challenge for an Essence 2 full Solar circle is?

Another Essence 2 full Solar circle of course. This is obvious.

>>52521833
I don't think Infernals are being counted as Celestials. Holden's comments suggest they intended never to publish an Infernals splat for 3e.

>>52522223
Hence the capslock caveat.

>>52522357
lolwut. He's spoken at length about things he probably shouldn't have in #Exalted. On sorcery.net. Since fuck it.

>>52522476
Holden, December 2014. (Not a joke.)

>>52522683
I suspect his social media will be dead for a long time. This is about the most embarrassing way to go out.

>>52527416
If only this were true!

But no. Facing off against fucking mirror images they'll somehow manage to turn the whole thing lopsided. Either get rolled or roll, without any discernible difference in the results on dice.

It's just an unpredictable mess.

>>52518114

It was down for a span, but due to the incompetence of the hosting company, rather than legal threats.

Monday Meeting Notes are out, and Arms, Dragon-Blooded, and Realm have all moved back to first draft status.


Which is odd considering Arms is allegedly due in three months.

This might be a bit late, but how is 3rd edition? I played Exalted 2nd once a few years ago and it didn't really grab me, though that could easily have been the group I was playing with (since it wasn't my usual one, and was made up of randoms from the internet). Any major problems with it? I've taken up GMing for the group and a few players were interesting in giving it a go, wasn't really sure what to tell them about the system.

>>52527780
Vance has stated repeatedly that he is writing evocations. If they do not exist yet they cannot be done with the first draft.

>>52527847
Maybe I'm just still used to the old pace of things.

>>52527847
I figured that would count as development.

>>52527843
Overall good. Though like any other good system out there, there are rough spots.

>>52527780

So for the past few months they've been lying to us? Wish I could say I was surprised.

>>52527843

Exalted is a weird beast. If the setting does not grab you and want to play it then the system is nothing special. Its competent and I personally enjoy it. But if you like the setting its the best thing ever since its the best rules that we have ever had. We have never had anything that was competent before.

Some people like to bring in other systems but it usually always falls short. Basically we love the setting and just want some way to play in that world.

>>52527843
Opinions vary, but the general consensus seems to be that it's not perfect but still leagues better than 2nd edition. I'd say it's good overall, as long as the heavy crunch isn't a turnoff for you. 2nd edition was a mess that people mostly played for the setting, so you didn't miss anything there.

As far as major problems go, the crafting system is the big one that always comes up. Some would say the Charm bloat is another, but that's more a matter of taste. Personally, I'd say that the strongest points of the game are its social interaction and sorcery systems.

>>52527934

What got me into Exalted was that all abilities, not just those of combat, had highly detailed lists of what you could do with them.

Ok notanautomaton

>>52526023
There is nothing wrong with the actual scale of the world. Cities are no further apart from each other than in any ancient real world empire, it's just that only a small handful of urban settlements are actually shown on the world mmap. This is something you should know by now. What is actually nonsensical is the Realm's ridiculously small military. This should be fixed by giving the Realm more legions. The size of the world is not aproblem and should not be changed.

>>52527843
It's very math heavy compared to some other RPGs. It's got a lot of depth and is pretty good, but if your players don't enjoy basic math to some limited extent, they may find it a bit stifling overall.

It is, absolutely, better than 1st or 2nd edition were.

>>52527974
If you liked Charms, the 3rd edition corebook has about as many Solar Charms as there were Solar Charms in the entire 2nd edition. There's like 900 charms. So you would be pretty happy about that I imagine.

>>52528325

>snipe at charmbloat

You missed the point

Even using 2e metrics, abilities were fairly fleshed out when compared to other RPG titles that were largely "Roll, maybe get a bonus if you roll a 18-20"

Minton explained the issue on the OPP forums.

>http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/1072918-monday-meeting-2017-04-03?p=1072934#post1072934

Man, it is so fucking weird having developers this communicative.

>>52526023
>The scale of the setting is beyond stupid given the limited number of exalted and troops.

Well, Solars used to have much more wide ranging powers. Another victim of the edition nerfs.

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>>52527843
3E has the best rules, but probably the 2nd worst fluff.

2E has the worst rules and fluff.

1E has the best fluff and meh rules.

Go with 3E, you'll do fine. Tell your players it's a game about changing the world as a bunch of high-fantasy wuxia action heroes.

>>52528517
I was actually being a bit serious. People who really fucking loved Charms would probably like how many there are in 3rd edition.

>>52527843
Good but slow as hell. We have core and literally nothing else. So take your pick
Rules for everything but the rules are shit
Good rules but solars and whatever homebrew you can manage

>>52528661
I feel like I'm the only Exalted GM who enjoys 1e's idea of the Solar Exalted's return being too little too late to stop all the horrible calamities rushing down on Creation.

"It was a time of sorcery and heroism, of fabulous wonders and treacherous betrayals. Ruled by a decadent empire, it slipped inch by inch into barbarism and darkness, until one last cataclysm blotted it out forever. Yet, in its sunset, it was a splendid thing, and glorious were the deeds of the Exalted."

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>>52528953

That tag line was probably the result of WW really trying to push connections to the WoD on Exalted. Plus, y'know, it's Exalted. Being able to stop everything going to shit is entirely an Exalted thing to do.

Then again, so is actively making everything worse just because you want to.

>>52529020
Agreed. I kind of like it the current way more, where it's entirely up to what kinds of decisions you make.

You know Exalted's 3e development would probably be an excellent case study in business school.

>>52529628
In the sense of "dear god, dear god, PLEASE don't fucking do this"?

>>52529628

The whole Solar thing is figuratively a Coke > Dr Pepper. I despised it when fanboys held the opinion that Solars ought to leave no mechanical niche to Celestials or Terrestrials on the grounds of "thematics", and I despise it as it becomes canonized.

>>52529692
What the hell are you talking about?

>>52530457

What White Wolf has done to Lunars etc is like if Coca Cola Co. watered down the formula of Dr Pepper and Sprite at the factory, announced it, but then claimed that it was okay that Coke was better because there was niche protection.

Do you get it?

>>52530590
The problem with Lunars is that the writers sucked and/or were not given enough time for the book. They took the lazy way out and just gave them a bunch of solar charms but worse.

It isn't the fault of the Solars, 1e Sidereals and Alchemicals had great charmsets despite being weaker than Solars.

>>52530676

You've missed my thrust.

Solars- but with some stuff fluffed differently and some sub-systems that lack a unique mechanical output is the new design philosophy for Celestials, with that being Solars-- for Terrestrials. It has been drifting that way since 2e.

>>52530719
I...what?

I don't think this will be true in 3e.

>>52530676
>1e Sidereals and Alchemicals had great charmsets

I won't talk for Alchemicals which I only skimmed, but 1E Sidereals is one of the top three mechanically worst books in the entire history of Exalted gameline, which is an impressive feat. Even if viewed strictly in the context of creating NPCs, it was a power creep abomination that spawned the whole unbeatable elders syndrome.

what breaks if I swap the calculations for a lunar's personal and peripheral pools?

and what if I also do all this stuff here https://pastebin.com/PPbsn6BM

>>52530943
I just mean the native charmsets of the Sidereals were narratively compelling, while also being balanced to be slightly worse than Solars at actual combat. You can read the author's reasoning for combat charm balance, she wrote up a bunch of stuff on it. Mechanically, their non-combat powers were designed to be used by PCs only, which isn't great if you're trying to run a simulationist game, but damn do they look fun to use.

The power creep abomination stuff were the Sidereal Martial Arts, which I agree were a huge mistake. But that was the fault of GCG wanting ultra powerful high essence charms.

>>52527427
>Holden's comments suggest they intended never to publish an Infernals splat for 3e.

another reason to be happy hes gone then

>>52526023
iirc at one point creation was the size of the Mediterranean, but they went back and added a few zeros to /everything/ before publishing 1e for some reason

>>52525672
>I don't mind Morke and Holden as developers and 3e overall seems solid but holyfuck who the fuck thought they should be the public face of exalted?

didn't op fire exalted's pr director on like the first day of kickstarter and never hire a replacement?

Did you ever allow custom merits on your table? If yes, which?

>>52531232
>happy
aww, they weren't so bad (not sarcasm. they weren't. they just should have been kept behind the scenes because holdin can be autistically abrasive, and then it became a circlejerk meme)

>>52529628
Why? It was only handled as badly as OPP normally handles things, it just had Holden and Morke as fuck multipliers.

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>>52523314
The discussion went there by way of "should Ligier be vulnerable to violence, or completely invulnerable unless you take advantage of a unique hidden weakness?" due to discussions about how powerful a Third Circle Demon should be.

Personally, I think that's too much. Defeating an invincible monster by turning its own nature against it is the kind of thing that you'd need to kill a whole Primordial. It shouldn't be necessary for a 3CD; they're hype, but they're not ~that~ hype.

I put emphasis on "necessary" in that statement. Exploiting a deva's nature to defeat it should certainly be possible and helpful, something that most adventuring parties would want to do if they could, but they shouldn't be outright unbeatable otherwise no matter how powerful you are. A major theme in Exalted is that no one is as invincible as they think; anyone, even the mightiest of deities, can be slain by "lesser" beings if they succumb to hubris, and no being's power is absolute. The question is not whether it's possible at all to kill them, but whether it's a wise decision, and what the consequences would be if you did.

Plus, if a Third Circle Deva was really that powerful, how much more powerful would a whole Primordial have to be by comparison?

>>52531109
>I just mean the native charmsets of the Sidereals were narratively compelling, while also being balanced to be slightly worse than Solars at actual combat.

>being this deep into Stockholm Syndrome
Seek help anon.

>>52531521
They're both awful people, point blank period.

They're also shitty writers, which is a whole different bag of worms.

>>52531521
>>52531775
Holden isn't autistic and trying to defend him by characterizing him as such is discriminatory to people who actually are autistic, like most of the Exalted fanbase.

Holden (and Morke) is simply an asshole and a pathological liar.

>>52531521
No, when you used Infernal as kickstarter bonus goal and later you said that yeah we're not going to do it then it's your fault and people can sue you

>>52531066
oh, also I would change the duration of a lunar's limit break to [flawed virtue] days, and allow it to be prematurely triggered by bathing in the light of the full moon, reducing it'd duration the percentage of empty spots in the Lunar's Limit-track and converting days to scenes or hours(whichever is shorter)

and lunars may choose to accept 2 points of limit rather than spend willpower when suppressing virtues for the sake of an intimacy.

does /that/ break anything?

>>52531751
>deva

Demon. "Deva" is a 2eism that probably isn't going to come back.

>>52531765
Go fuck yourself.

>>52531883
that's too many. maybe one day. even most solar breaks don't last a number of days equal to the character's flawed virtue, and they should have it the worst of anybody

>>52527345
Cleaning up after the messes of the full Solar circle when they were Essence 1

>>52531838
Is this a thing that happened? Because if so I hope their careers have ended in shame and ignominy as they should.

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>>52532412

>>52532663
He's choosing to read their statements that way. But given all their talk about the specific things they planned to do with Infernals in 3E, I'd say he's just trying to make up a reason to make himself (and you) hate them more.

>>52532663
onyx path is refusing to pay them for the ~90% written first draft finished next book since it mostly contains stuff that was initially supposed to be in core....of course that doesn't stop them charging US for another book rather than release it as a supplement 9_9

does that count for you?

>>52532910
only thing I know of 3e Infernals is that they're ability based rather than yozi based