/osrg/ OSR General

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>>52494168
Does anyone have a copy of the 4th Printing of Swords and Wizardy Whitebox?

The copy in the mega trove is broken.

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>>52494168
Saw the OP imagine and thought that someone had created a 3rd LEGO general. Color me disappointed.

>What are the gods like in your games?
5 to 15 HD, very rarely as low as 3 or as high as 16.
Always with a thematicly appropriate Special Defense.
Almost all of them live in the mortal world.

>>52494409
Why are LEGO dice so expensive?

What programs do you guys use to make your good PDFs and such?

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>>52494168
Thicc

Shill

w*3 <dot> kickstarter <dot> com/projects/autarch/heroic-fantasy-and-barbarian-conquerors-collection/description

>>52494168
>>What are the gods like in your games?
well, what is a God?
Do you need to be immortal? Very powerful?
That's easily done by a high-level character with access to magic.
To be worshipped? To grant spells to worshippers? To accept prayers and sacrifices?
Harder, but still doable.
to be all knowing, all powerful and all good?
No such thing exists.

Most 'things that call themselves gods' in my game were once mortals. Sometimes human, sometimes aliens, sometimes serpent-folk. There are various ways to transcend the limits of mortal flesh, and after a while most beings that do that realise that being worshipped is an easy source of power.
But that's all it is. Some weird, powerful fucker who's feeding off the worship of its cultists and maybe granting them blessings in return.

How do you write up a setting document for a OSR game?

>>52494979
do you mean for your own use or for a OSR public?

How does one run MotBM? There's no empty rooms, no corridors, mostly no doors...?
Am I supposed to inject 'normal' stuff in between?
Can it be run with a small 1st level group using B/X? Because it looks plain impossible for BX characters, in general.
And random 'encounters' HAPPEN each turn, it's not a 1/6 chance... it's more like a 50%...

>>52495273
>There's no empty rooms, no corridors, mostly no doors...?
Well, that's kind of the definition of a maze. Just describe the room they're in and the exits. If they come closer to an exit, they can peak and see parts of what's inside. This may actually help with informed decision making.
There are some corridors here and there, but it's kind of expected that rooms are corridors in their own right.
>Can it be run with a small 1st level group using B/X? Because it looks plain impossible for BX characters, in general.
4th level and beyond would be rather safe. If going in with lower levels, expect a LOT of caution. I ran it with 1st level characters, and it worked. They just need to know what they're in for. The context of this place being magical and otherworldly helps them enter that mindset though.
>random encounters
The chances aren't that big actually.

best method to kick off an osr campaign?
a) Party meets in a roadside tavern with a handful of hooks to choose from.
b) Party is shipwrecked.
c) Party arrives at the borderlands of the new frontier with the goal of exploring uncharted lands and making it safe for colonisation.
d) Party is at the entrance to a dungeon. Go.
e) Players are given a brief overview of the world and a handful of starting regions to choose from. They decide where the campaign begins.

>>52495475
Party is already inside of the dungeon, middle of 1st level, room with no (visible) exits. Go.

Also, they don't know about this place or how to exit, and need to figure out everything by poking around / reading / bribing / interrogation -- makes up for good osr playstyle, and you can put clues for what's coming in the campaign, knowing they will look for any info they can get.

how do I stop fiddling with my houserules and actually start a campaign?

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so I'm doing a thing in the apocalypse and I'd like loot tables. I got something for trash.

anyone have any post apocalyptic/scifi/modern loot tables?

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>>52494168

For the math savvy-
What's the difference between 3d6 and d6+d4+d8?

>>52495974
Play B/X, or better, black box. Unless it's something vital, make houserules as you play only, with the players' input.

>>52496461

$ odds 3d6
3 0.004629629629629629
4 0.013888888888888888
5 0.027777777777777776
6 0.046296296296296294
7 0.06944444444444445
8 0.09722222222222224
9 0.11574074074074074
10 0.125
11 0.125
12 0.11574074074074073
13 0.09722222222222222
14 0.06944444444444445
15 0.046296296296296294
16 0.027777777777777776
17 0.013888888888888888
18 0.004629629629629629

$ odds d4+d6+d8
3 0.005208333333333333
4 0.015625
5 0.031249999999999997
6 0.05208333333333333
7 0.07291666666666667
8 0.09374999999999999
9 0.10937499999999999
10 0.11979166666666666
11 0.11979166666666666
12 0.109375
13 0.09374999999999999
14 0.07291666666666666
15 0.05208333333333333
16 0.03125
17 0.015625
18 0.005208333333333333

>>52496515
So, simply a bit more weighted towards the extremes? A slightly 'softer' bell curve?

If so, why isn't more used for chargen? It seems to inflate the +2 and -2 chances a bit, without affecting the averages or extremes too much...

>>52496597
we can increase the chance of extremes a bit more:

$ odds 2d4+d10
3 0.00625
4 0.01875
5 0.03750
6 0.0625
7 0.08125
8 0.09375
9 0.1
10 0.1
11 0.1
12 0.1
13 0.0937
14 0.0812
15 0.0625
16 0.0375
17 0.0187
18 0.0062

>>52493452
>>52493435

Who's this and what did he do?

>>52496672
Thanks! That's interesting, but makes the 9-12 range a flat chance.

But seriously, why not roll d4+d6+d8 for ability scores? It's a very small change but something about rolling three different dice sounds satisfying.

Maybe I'm tired of seeing hundreds of PCs with either 0 or +-1, very occasionally a +-2.
I'd rather do this than fiddle with the score-mod table distibution.

>>52495974
Take only a small number of things you want to change, change them at first and go from there. Otherwise there's too many moving parts that fuck with each other. Use most house rules as a way to fix or change a problem that comes up in gameplay. Its not going to be perfect first time and you're not going to learn how to make better rules if you don't play.

Most players don't care about .125 vs .1197916 anyway. Its neat to think about, but while you're playing or making characters no one gives a shit. Especially for generating stats.

>>52496795
>>52496795
chance of a positive modifier by chargen method

$ odds 3d6 | awk '$1 > 12 {sum += $2} END {print sum}'
0.259259

$ odds d4+d6+d8 | awk '$1 > 12 {sum += $2} END {print sum}'
0.270833

$ odds 2d4+d10 | awk '$1 > 12 {sum += $2} END {print sum}'
0.3

$ odds 2d3+d12 | awk '$1 > 12 {sum += $2} END {print sum}'
0.333333

> muh ability bonuses are rare +1 is a big deal osr sacred cow philotomy musing

>>52496993
Thanks again. What do you use for this?

> muh ability bonuses are rare +1 is a big deal osr sacred cow philotomy musing
Not sure what do you mean with that. I mean, I know it's something superfluous, but if the group asks for a change I'd rather say 'then roll this instead of 3d6, it makes a small difference' instead of butchering chargen/reinventing the wheel.

>>52494667
Do your PCs quest to find who stole the rest of those Hindu Gods' arms?

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>>52494656

>>52495273
>Can it be run with a small 1st level group
Almost none of the encounters are outright hostile.
So yes, you *can* run it for 1st levels. Not a good idea, but it works.

>>52494656

LATEX, like >>52497152 said. But Scribus is also really, really good. Like, almost adobe good.

https://www.scribus.net/

>>52494371
>What are the gods like in your games?

Only presentation of gods I've liked are:

1. Dark Sun, best gods are no gods (but close enough)
2. The Elder Elemental Eye & the Dark God (I like Gygax's POV of them being entirely separate, though Tharizdun could still trick people by masquerading as an entity of elemental cold)
3. Monstrous deities -- gives a good way to upscale humanoids etc., and its very in theme for S&S to face off against horrid subhumans with weird powers and sometimes even their avatars.

If you players say "i want more character options/feats etc..." what do you do?

>>52497107
> What do you use for this?

Unix command line tools. Source code for "odds" is here: https://github.com/weatherspud/dice-notation

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>>52497107
> Not sure what do you mean with that
Philotomy is original osr high priest, but it has been many years since he rent his clothes, took down his website, and went to live in the wilderness. Has he been forgotten?

How to write new classes for OSR game?

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>>52498285
Question too general: rephrase.

What do you want to accomplish?

Also, steal ideas wholesale.

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>>52494168
>What are the gods like in your games?

We've got the Authority. He didn't create everything, but he did put it all in order. He's pretty much Yahweh, but without temporal omniscience and some sort of limits on his omnipotence.

Heathens worship all kinds of things through. Some of them worship elementals, or the stars, or leftover spirits from Creation who are properly godlike, or gods they created from magic.

>>52498285
Depends on the system. Generally speaking, you need to make an archetype with strong thematic focus like the Mirage Archer who has archery skills and minor illusion magic.

>>52498285
Give them a strong core identity, try not to rehash the same mechanical and thematical niche under the different name.

Examples of good OSR classes: FLAILSNAILS classes.
Examples of bad OSR classes: Rangers, Paladins, Inquisitors, Bards and other jack-of-all-trades scum.

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>>52498933
>Paladins
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.ca/2016/06/god-throat-paladins.html

Depends on how you do them.

>>52498987
Of course, but I really view paladins as more of a calling than a specific character class.
Now Arnold did the same thing any good OSR class, something very specific. Also paladins make for better NPCs, since paladin players are especially insufferable in an OSR context most of the time.

>>52499037
>any good OSR class needs

Pardon me.

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>>52499037
>>52499063
Not letting them speak does seem to limit the insufferable do-good-ness thing that always brings down a party of murderhobos.

Also, giving them an Ambiguous Divine Mission. That helps a fair bit.

But as antagonists or NPCs, they are truly excellent.

>>52498933
I dunno, paladins, rangers, and bards certainly are way better than garbage like thieves and halflings, the former of which make the game worse by their inclusion.

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>>52499118
Imagine the game is dividing into a series of minigames.

You have the Combat minigame. Everyone has something they can do in Combat. Wizard blow people up, Fighters chop them apart, etc.

You've got the Sneaking minigame. Thieves and Rogues do quite well here, but, in most OSR systems, don't dominate it completely.

But then you get minigames like Trap Disarming and Lock Picking. These are /completely/ dominated by the Thief/Rogue in some cases. Literally nobody else can do it. Other systems just say "disarm traps using common sense, and no, you don't get a skill for it."

But then you've got the Outdoors minigame. Foraging, hunting, tracking, and survival are dominated by the Ranger. It's the core of their class. It's the most important thing. Therefore, anyone else who is equally good robs the Ranger of their "one cool thing". It's wasted design space.

Similarly, social engagements /can/ be dominated by the Bard archetype. It's the core of their class too.

>>52499118
>paladins, rangers, and bards
>better than a thief
>thief makes D&D worse
kek

now it's when you confess you don't understand thief skills, yes?

>>52498285
Personally I prefer the method "okay, what do you want to play that you don't feel is available in the basic classes? Okay, Barbarian? What kind of barbarian, like a berserker or a sneaky guy in fur pants? Okay, here's a ten-level progression, take it or leave it."

I.e. rather than having a big fat book of choice paralysis, create class variants off the cuff on request.

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>>52499396
That does require a certian level of genre awareness and experience though.

You can use a table (or a weighted table, like the one here), to help indecisive players.

>>52499279

>now it's when you confess you don't understand thief skills, yes?

Nah, I understand the revisionist meme that, despite Gygax never commenting on it and no books suggesting it, that its totally an extra chance.

The real problem with the thief is that once you introduce him, you force the game into spotlight territory. Instead of traps just being an organic part of the campaign, now you have to devote an arbitrary chunk of time to one player alone and baby him.

>>52499494
If you don't have genre awareness and experience, don't make a new thing. Learn how the things you have work first.

>>52499648
>revisionist meme

That's silly. Authenticity has no bearing on validity.

Regardless of your opinion of the folks who claim that this is how it was done in those early games, it's still a way to interpret the rules that both makes sense, and makes the thief a valuable addition to your party.

>>52494168
>What are the gods like in your games?
There are no gods in my game

>>52494168
If I started running something again, I'd probably have Immortals, because neither big government pantheons like in FR nor vaguely godless settings like Eberron interest me now. A bunch of former adventurers achieving immortality or something like 13th Age icons are probably the way to go for me.

>>52496781
Canadian bi guy who did some stuff for LotFP. Runs Dungeons & Donuts tumblr blog. On good terms with Zak and cool DIY D&D kids. Does cartoonish simplistic art. Develops a woman-centered OSR game, Snow Witch, Shield Maiden. I think that's about it.

>>52500870

That sounds like more than enough for the usual suspects to hate him with a burning passion.

>>52500870
Oh, It's the guy who draws himself with that ugly fucking clown nose.

>>52499244
>Literally nobody else can do it.
Rules-as-written, find/disarm traps only works on SMALL traps.
That's poison needles in latches, explosive runes in books, etc. etc.

Simple shit that's readily bypassed (wear gauntlets, skip those lines, etc.), but that are a pain to describe looking for.

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Can I get some opinions on this?
It's a small, cold, dungeon with constructs and disarming/stealing and stuff, designed for a smal low level party.
I'm stuck coming up with loot and encounters to make the place interesting without flooding it with critters - it's supposed to be a puzzley dung, not a fighty dung.
Also, idk if there's a good pacing, it may need some rooms moved around.

>>52501000
Don't go overboard, chum, I don't think anybody hates him with or without a passion. He's just kind of a chump, not a touch on False Patrick, Arnold Punch or any of those guys.

Anyone played/read Goblin Punch's Arnold's GLOG? How is it?

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>>52500082
>If you don't have genre awareness and experience, don't make a new thing. Learn how the things you have work first.

Sorry, should have been more clear. I meant the players. It's hard for players to suggest classes if they haven't played this kind of game before. It's worse if they haven't played video games either.

The suggestions I got were... memorable.

>>52501635
Reading it now. I like it already.

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>>52502214
I like it quite a lot. I wrote a basic review here: https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-glog-review.html

The classes are great. The magic system is great. The entire thing is disorganized as hell and requires a bit of hacking to get it functional.

>>52502266
Will you make a blogpost about the spells you converted recently?
Additionally, any advice on converting spells?

>>52502235
>I meant the players. It's hard for players to suggest classes if they haven't played this kind of game before.
Personally I feel that that's a good reason for them to stick to the basic classes. If a player doesn't even have enough familiarity with fantasy/S&S literature to suggest character types, the base classes are invaluable for giving a direction.

Also, I would never allow players to suggest rules or powers, just what character types or monsters they wanted to play. Mechanics are all on the referee and at his discretion.

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>>52502313
The cleric ones? It's in progress now.

Advice for converting spells:

At least one thing needs to be based on [dice] or [sum], but ideally, no more than 3 things or it gets confusing.

4 [dice] effects should be really, really good. The range alone might do it for some spells. A 10' cone and a 40' cone are very different.

Read through that list of 100 spells and see how I've made some spells variable in different ways.

Otherwise, just go nuts. They might be unbalanced and weird, but since they are also randomly rolled and limited use per day, it's not likely to break anything.

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So my current OSR setting and game features a modern fantasy game with gonzo psychic powers, gun play, monsters, and super technology. It's pretty fun.

However my problems comes in with trying to create good combat encounters. Guns in this setting are meant to be pretty dangerous but unreliable (jam pretty often), and basically everyone has them. My problem is that most gangs in the city will have guns and will be using them against party members, which could end up killing them a bit too fast, even for an OSR game.

How could this be fixed? Make gangster guns a little weaker or just make fighting them less common? ie; plan more monster fights then gangster fights?

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>>52501635
So the "gravity reversal" thing needs to be explained more clearly, both in terms of its effects on the party and on the map.

>Gravity-flipped weapons have disadvantage (or -4) if the wielder it’s not

Should be "is not" or "its wielder is not".

>There’s d8 seeds of Inverted Demon Trees, that grow to their full size in d4 hours."

Should be "There are d8 seeds of Inverted Demon Trees which grow to their full size in d4 hours"

But those are minor nitpicks. I like it. I like the traps and the gimmicks and the map. Nice work.

>>52502702
what rules are you using for Guns, currently if I were to use them I'd probably be using the ones from Fantastic Heroes & Witchery

>>52502864

I have a custom ruleset.

>>52502862
Thanks, I'm not native and stuff like that really helps.
>gravity
Cool, will do. I wasn't planning on stuffing each room with "And if a PC is gravity-flipped..." but I guess I still need to dedicate a lengthy item description for this.

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>>52503126
I don't think it needs to be lengthy, but I think it needs to be clear what's gravity flipped and what isn't. And what the ceilings are like. And fall damage.

>The main entrance resets gravity with a nasty sound as living things cross it. This doesn’t work with objects, constructs and the like (gargoyle included). This is important to remember, since gravity-flipped things will be repelled from Earth and fly away if taken out.

This is the main section that needs to be clarified.

>>52502266
Thanks a bunch.
I'm reading through it and like a lot of things. I have two worries though:
1) The whole contested roll resolution system is a bit finicky and I will probably replace it with "roll under or equal; the closer to the target number, the better" with the addition that difficulties just mean you need a higher roll.
Attacking someone in platemail(armor 16, used here as difficulty 6) would mean you need to roll below your attack rating, but above 6 to hit. Rolling up the exact number of your attack rating would be a crit here then.
This'd eliminate player math, and I can keep difficulties secret
2) The wizards feel weak. I love the spells and the magic system itself, but as far as I understood, they only get 4 spellslots, with the added option of continuing to cast with potentially dangerous consequences. That seems rather weak compared to the martial classes that get many toys to play around, on every level.
Am I wrong here? How did this work out for your group?

How do you feel about alignment languages? In my game, alignments are cosmic forces rather than personality types (LotFP style), and I'm considering adding alignment languages.

From a fiction standpoint, I think it might be cool for a magic user to be able to naturally talk to fey, while a cleric would easily understand an angel.

Is this a good or bad idea?

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>>52503183
1) The whole contested roll resolution system is a bit finicky

It works very well once you get used to it, but it does take about 20 minutes of adjustment.

>and I can keep difficulties secret

Ah, yes, there is that.

>2) The wizards feel weak.

Wizards get to ID magic items for free (which is handy). The goal is to have /all/ of their spells be as good as Sleep, ideally.

Wizards don't feel weak in play, but my group doesn't have a baseline to compare them against. If your group is used to 3.5 - 5E Wizards, they will feel very underpowered. But remember, Wizards still have an Attack of 11 (so they're as good as anyone else at hitting people with swords), and they can wear armour (if they can afford/loot it).

The "Mishaps/Dooms" section comes in when you start casting higher level spells. There's a cost to doing impossible things.

>>52501635
The dungeon seems a bit claustrophobic, but I dig the "puzzles."


>Random Encounters (2d4):
1. 2 tetrahedrons attacking an octahedron.
2. Balor with alzheimer's. Owes... someone, a favor.
3. A lost tridrone, meant to serve as the Balor's minder.
4. Talking skull. Answers most questions, but gives bad advice. Makes a ruckus if you avoid a fight.
5. 1d12 illusory goblins.
6. 1d12 goblins, 1d8 of which are illusory.
7. A deafening roar. Save or go deaf. If rerolled, any deaf save or become treacherous.
8. MU (lv.9) with late stage boggie pox.

>Treasure (1.2)
The lie detecting ice parrot *is* treasure.
Also, there are some research notes.
Most of the atelier's reagents have spoiled, but many are salvageable.
>Treasure (3.2)
Pink sand. Holds together and acts like iron in the dark.
Flakes apart but malleable as balsa wood in the very dim (and less effected by magnets).
If you can see hairs on your arm, it's bright enough that it's just sand.
>Treasure (8)
TWENTY (20) pounds of opium, two jars of high end tea leaves (1 is spiked with opium), 85gp (mostly in copper), and a tapestry worth 200 silver.


>Mecha-octopus (2)
20hp (2HD), THAC0 8, AC as Plate, 1d4 damage, checks to disarm on a hit (or pin, if disarmed)
>Living statues (4)
12hp (4HD) for stone and 14 hp (3HD) for ice, THAC0 as master, AC as master with a shield, 1d6+1 damage (or as weapon), immune to non-magic weapons.
Ice statue rolls fire damage (given or recieved) twice and takes the larger value.
>Frost Vegetal Zombie (5)
As vegepygmy, AC as chain. On death, all within 5' save or get frostbite.
>Grabby hand (6)
As crawling claw, but pick pockets as a Thief (lv.3). Attacks (and soots) in rounds where the pick fails.
>Ice golem (10)
Together they fight as an ice mephit, alone they fight as ice fundamentals.
>Inverted demon tree (11)
Fights as two Mecha-octopus, but 65hp.

>>52503605
>>52503681
Juicy af.

>tapestry worth 200 sil-
Do you have a blog?

I want to run a game again. Fairly standard OSR, maybe geared a bit toward the autistic spectrum since that's who I'm dealing with. I need to limit myself to 5 pdfs not including tables and maps and such to run a game because my eyes are dying from reviewing all the options. Core rules are LotFP or whatever. What would those pdf be?

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Has anyone here played in The Wilderlands of High Fantasy?

What's a good starting location for beginners?

>>52494979
Use Microsoft Word, plop some pictures in, save to PDF.

>>52494979
Prep belongs in spiral notebooks.

>>52502972
So post it.

>>52504728

Do not listen to this man. LATEX, Scribus, or Adobe InDesign are basically your only options.

Using Microsoft Word for good page layout is literally cancer.

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>>52504860

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>>52504894
You're better off using Microsoft Powerpoint, if you really want to be contrarian.

>>52504767
True, but hard to share on the internet.

Is Moldvay or Holmes Basic better?

>>52505252

>using microsoft powerpoint
>not using software designed to actually do publishing and page layout

I'm not the one being contrarian; you're an idiot.

>>52505457
Reading comprehension, anon.

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>>52505408
infamous Holmes rule:
> Light weapons such as the dagger allow two blows per round.
> The heavy two-handed sword, battle axe, halberd, flail,
> morning star, and most pole arm can be used only once every
> other round.

>>52505572

He's saying the industry standards of LaTeX, Adobe InDesign, and Scribus, are not worth using. They are industry standards for a reason.

What is Weapon Mastery?

>>52505684
He's saying that if you don't want to industry standards then you're better off with PowerPoint than you are with Word.

Where do people tend to recruit for games online? Roll20 doesn't give me shit.

>>52506344
Dragonsfoot maybe?

Thinking of playing with the Thief and Cleric classes for a personal game. What are some neat things people have done with the classes to make them fit better in the original Fighting Man-Magic User dichotomy?

>>>52506344 Roll20 doesn't give me shit.
Anyone on /tg/ could tell you to only use roll20 when your already have a group.
The Discord linked in the OP has a gamefinder channel? It's not very good tho.

>>52506472
Thief-Acrobat and Church-Militant.

>>52506514
>The Discord linked in the OP has a gamefinder channel? It's not very good tho.
What's wrong with it? Is there anything I could do to make it better?

>>52505662
That sounds unbalanced, but it does make the Thief not-suck really well.

>>52505063
Not him but why on earth is hair trigger a flaw.

I've been unable to game for a while, but I've been constantly purchasing TSR & OSR stuff over the years. I think I can put aside some time now to get an actual game started.
Obviously I want to put all that money I spent to good use, so I'm just going to throw everything I've got into the campaign world.
I don't want to get too bogged down in prep, otherwise the game will never get off the ground. What do you guys think would be a good way to present it?
Knowing the people who will likely play, I think they'll go along with any premise and suspend their disbelief when it comes to things like zap gun wielding Carcosian Orange men existing in the same hex as a generic european middle ages keep.

Can I get away with filling a randomly generated 6 or 30mi hex full of some low level module content and building out from there on the fly as they players explore?
What kind of world could I at least somewhat plausibly justify as having wildly different aesthetics existing beside each other? I was thinking something gonzo-ish like a Masters of the Universe's Eternia type world. There is no way I'm going to be able to run a straight faced euro-medieval political game, but I think I could get away with a pulp science fantasy world like MotU or Dark Sun.

>>52506913

It's missing a few tables, but is otherwise good. It really needs a v3 to fix that though.

>>52506905
Near as I can tell, you can get rewarded for taking multiple rounds to aim.

>>52506905

Doesn't let you aim for a long time, so you can't cut down on range penalties when trying to snipe or you get less bonus when sniping with rifle cartridges.

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>>52506909
Honest to god, I don't know how to tell you.

When playing OD&D, do you guys use Mentzer, Holmes or Moldvay?

>>52506909
>Can I get away with filling a randomly generated 6 or 30mi hex full of some low level module content and building out from there on the fly as they players explore?

Yep, that's a solid way to handle things.

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>>52507088

Those are editions of Basic. (Except arguably Holmes, which could be seen as an intro to OD&D)

OD&D is a seperate thing.

But Moldvay/Cook is the best Basic IMO

>>52507088
Only one of those is OD&D, tow of those are Basic D&D.

>>52506909
>>52507103

I just noticed you said "a" 6 or 30 mile hex. Generally you want to put one major thing per hex, and then scatter some hidden things around to taste. If you want to put some 6 mile hexes inside a 30 mile hex, that's fine, but then you don't really need the 30 mile hex.

>>52506909
>What kind of world could I at least somewhat plausibly justify as having wildly different aesthetics existing beside each other? I was thinking something gonzo-ish like a Masters of the Universe's Eternia type world.
Have a look at Planet Algol. I think it's just your thing.

>>52507124
Ah, thanks, I always confuse those.

>>52507124
So is OSR more about Basic D&D or does it include AD&D 1e as well?

>>52507309
I'll give you a hint:

OSRIC, the retroclone that started the OSR movement, is an AD&D retroclone.

All the PDFs on this trove:

http://gobbi.free.fr/scenarii/ScenariiTSR.php

appear to have been deleted, FYI.

>>52506976
You should probably use some kind of breathing mechanic for that instead, ease of pulling the trigger should improve the accuracy not hurt it.

>>52507309
There are clones of all the old-school editions, but Basic D&D does seem to get the most love.

>>52507264
Basic D&D is essentially a continuation of core-level OD&D (the little brown books) plus the Greyhawk supplement. AD&D is kitchen sink OD&D, using all the supplements. Both Basic and AD&D, of course, make a good number of changes, but you can still trace their lineages that way.

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Does anyone have a collection of Peter Mullen's art?

I love his stuff so damn much.

what do you bros know about Calidar? is it anything as good as mystara?

>>52505836
You get badass with a particular weapon, receiving cool bonuses for it and shit. Think weapon specialization, only with different mechanics. Rules for weapon mastery were introduced in the Master Set of BECMI, I think, and are in the Rules Cyclopedia.

>>52506905
It's probably just written by a guy who knows fuck-all about guns. Same as how almost all RPG melee combat systems were written by guys who know dick about sword fighting.

>>52505408
Holmes only covers up to level 3, which rather limits its scope. I'm not very familiar with Holmes Basic, but the layout is a lot more primitive than Moldvay Basic's.

>>52507519

Unless you're fingering the trigger and you shoot too early.

Besides, it's just the easy name of a gun flaw. Same as the 'greasey' mechanic isn't really a greasey gun, the gun is only greasey because it needs the grease to fire without jamming up.

>>52507761

DUDE tabletop games, especially ones based on gonzo noir city mad-science alien settings, should have extremely realistic and detailed autistic gun rules instead of short and styled rules for ease of use. Bro if you simplify anything about this specific thing that I have an entry level understanding of, you don't know fucking DICK about that thing in question. Dude I am fucking smart and I know so much about combat skills why hasn't anyone hired me as a realism consultant? BRO you sure wish you were as smart and knowledgeable as me.

Kill yourself you fucking putrid cunt

>>52507917
>shitloss.jpg
I think maybe you want to take a step back here and analyze whether you or the mildly strange name you gave a flaw were actually commented on with anything like commensurate hostility to your response.

To me it looked pretty well like Anon was basically shrugging, saying it's not like Gygax knew any better about swords.

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Ok.

So to write my Generic Cleric spell list, I need to define the religious structure that exists in my setting. This... has taken more time than I'd like. The religion is designed to be as "generic fantasy catholic" as possible. It's the sort of thing that OD&D clerics could easily use without contradicting anything (except that crosses have been replaced with triangles).

Theology-minded people of OSR, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Bear in mind that the goal is not be too original or put in too many new ideas.

Gods and Mortals

No one knows who created everything, but the Authority* created the world. The Authority's power lies in organization and separation. Before Creation, everything was mixed together. Stone had the properties of water, water had the properties of light, light had the properties of writing. Everything was formless and ever-changing. The Authority created the Laws that separated one thing from another, and defined its shape and place in Creation. The Authority created the sun and the moon. He defined the seasons. He gave elementals their shape and nature. He created Beasts and People, and defined their orders and hierarchies: kings above lords, lords above knights, knights above serfs, serfs above slaves.

As long as every part of Creation obeys its designated purpose, the world will be full of righteousness, peace, and justice. But because People are willful, ignorant, or corrupted by the forces of the Adversary**, the world is... the way it is. The Authority is not unmerciful. Try your best, and your soul may be taken into Heaven. There are many rules for correct living. The Church is your guide. This world is a transient place, a preparation for the better world to follow.


*The Authority is male because obviously He mumble mumble mumble Kings mumble mumble organization of life mumble mumble...

**The Adversary is female because obviously She mumble mumble mumble mumble oh look at the time...

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>>52508157
In order to reserve some goodness, joy, and love for Heaven, the Authority put the greater part of the Evil things of Creation into the Hells in the centre of the world. The duty of the Adversary is to keep unworthy souls out of the world, and to torment them according to their sins, and to test the faith of the living. The devout have little to fear from the Adversary and her legions.

The Authority filled the world with many things, some known, some mysterious. Many things that are not understood are worshipped by heathens as gods. Their willful blindness condemns them to the Hells. The worship of false gods offends the Authority.


The Truth

is, of course, more complicated. The outline given above is dogmatic truth, and therfore, quite important. It is not nessesarily true.

In an ideal world, every village has a wise and literate priest, a noble and caring lord and his true and honourable knights, and well-fed serfs. But Elderstone has a great deal in common with 14th century Europe, including corrupt and venal clergy, warring lords, fear, plague, doubt, greed, and foolishness. Brigands roam the land. Lords tax their serfs unjustly. Wizards and Merchants have no place in the "orderly" creation described earlier, yet they are increasingly common.

Nevertheless, the Church binds Creation together. The stone triangles of the Authority hang in every home in Elderstone. Official Church doctrine is remarkably harsh towards women, "perversions" of the natural order from murder to wearing silk robes, unbelievers, and the insufficiently devout. In practice, intolerance varies widely. The Church has only a few pages of core doctrine. The rest is regional variance and ad-hoc justification for actions taken centuries ago.

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>>52508174
A few decades ago a terrible plague swept through Creation. A third of all People died. Communities turned against each other. Whole cities vanished. It was - and is - commonly believed that the Authority saw the wickedness of the People and wished to harm them, as a warning against future wickedness. People being what they are, lawlessness, warfare, and corruption have only increased since the plague. There is a pervasive but mostly unspoken sense that Creation may be collapsing into anarchy.


Servants of the Authority


The Authority organized Creation through words, but His voice is too powerful for most of Creation to endure. He therefore sends divine messengers to correct or influence Creation. The Authority has goals and plans for all of Creation but cannot predict the future. He does have complete knowledge of the past and present, and can attempt to steer Creation according to His vision.

Angels are spirits specially chosen to assist the Authority, just as demons are spirits specially chosen to assist the Adversary. They appear in thousands of forms, though they favour light and fire. The guard the sacred places of Creation.

Paladins of the Word choose to give up their voice to speak for the Authority. They also chose to give up a portion of their free will as well. They go where they are commanded to go without ever knowing why. While only men are permitted to enter the priesthood, anyone can become a Paladin, a fact which the Church takes great care to ignore.

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>>52508192
The Church

Every priest of the Authority can perform a minor miracle, known as the Separation. During a service they mix water and some other substance: blood, wine, filth, sand, poison, etc. They then pass their hand over the mixture and invoke the Authority's name. The mixture separates into pure water and other substances. The faithful then drink the pure water.

Priests lose this power if they break any of the core tenets of their faith, or if they displease the Authority in some other way. A fallen priest can use suspiciously clear "poison" or other tricks to maintain their position, but, in theory, will eventually be found out and punished. Many priests leave the "venal" business of collecting fees and donations and managing land to their deacons. The priest can remain "pure" provided they feign total ignorance of the origin of their luxuries and funds. In the years after the plague, good, literate, and kind priests are hard to find.

Churches across Creation all pay reverence to the Two Intercessors of Agsley, the dual high priests of the Church. One is a living man, elected by a convoluted and wholly political process. The other is a carved statue, ancient and glowering. This is Memnock the Ancient, a powerful stone elemental who was elected Intercessor of the Elemental Spirits in some long-forgotten era. He is decidedly less active.

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>>52508212
Heresies, Lies, and Rumours


It is said that women can, if instructed, perform the ritual of Separation as well as any male priest. Rumours of female priests haunt the Church. Doctrine has assigned very distinct roles for the sexes.

It is said that worship of the Authority is recent, perhaps as recent as 50 generations. This is a vile lie, for while the Church has changed somewhat over the centuries, it has always existed.

It is said that in heathen lands, the Authority is worshipped under other names, and in other forms. The heathens are deceived. There is only one Church.

It is said that there were once many gods, and that they ruled over their appointed aspects of Creation, but the Authority, in His jealousy, consumed
And done. Thoughts?

>>52508174
>But because People are willful, ignorant, or corrupted by the forces of the Adversary
Rather than an Adversary, it'd be more interesting if the Authority just wasn't the right man for the job.
Like, he does good work. The absolute best they can. But it's not quite good enough?

Maybe there are cults to some pretend Adversary, but their prayers call on deaf ears. Or on imposters.

>>52508192
>Angels are spirits specially chosen to assist the Authority, just as demons are spirits specially chosen to assist the Adversary.
Maybe spin them as Divinity Elementals? Bits and pieces of the Authority (or perhaps of his work) that aren't always on the same page?

Or possibly even Lightning Elemental, since those are so ambiguous.
Also gives a touch of "god within man," since you've establish Lightning Elementals can be found in brains.

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>>52508263
>Rather than an Adversary, it'd be more interesting if the Authority just wasn't the right man for the job.

Oh, he's definitely the right guy. I don't want to get into Demiurge-like theology here. That gets done a lot.

But he's... alien. Aloof. Has difficulty with the details, like time scales smaller than a lifetime or individual people.

You know the kind of person whose answer to "How could we achieve peace in X nation?" is "nuke the entire area into radioactive glass."? That's the Authority. His solutions are always right but they aren't always convenient.

So he laid down some Laws, and then People went and said "Oh, of course this means women can't be priests. And obviously we need to wear black on every 3rd Wednesday."

And the Authority, who can't see the details, goes "Well, that seems to be in order then. Contact me if you have any problems."

You can contact the Adversary all you'd like. She will even send you demon helpers, give you power, fulfill your dreams, etc. It's all part of the plan. She works for the Authority, after all.

>Maybe spin them as Divinity Elementals?

I can make that more clear. Spirits are spells are in some case elementals. Angels are just another name for divinity elementals, like Wind is another name for air elementals.

Lighting... isn't something you get Smote with in this setting. But it is something the Angels can /command/ to smite you. They can also compel fire to fall from the sky, rain to lash you, stone to swallow you, etc. It's what they do. Command is their main spell.

>>52508457
>Command is their main spell.
Is that true for the Adversary's demons as well?

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>>52508490
Nope. They don't use spells directly. They will bribe you with spells/power, or use spells to move the world to their end, but they have absolutely no power over the virtuous.

They also don't need to kill you. You'll die eventually. They want to ensure that only the good people get into Heaven, and only the wicked get into the Hells.

There are also /plenty/ of "leftovers" from Creation that don't fit into either camp and cause all sorts of havoc. This includes dragons, unrepentant but powerful spirits, and all spells.

>>52508542
Ah. Pretty sure I get it then.
To mortals, the Authority's completed his Great Work of creating to world.
But the "world" is just a byproduct of his actual Work: sorting everything.
When he's done sorting, everything will stay in it's proper place.
But for now the Work continues.

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>>52508631
Pretty much. And because He can't go back and unmake his own rules, and because He can't see the future, the Authority is fairly hesitant to make changes at this point.

And his categories are... obscure. I mean, what the heck did He have to sort together to make Fire? Or the Hydra? Or the Prime Hydra (whose bite spawns hydras, whose blood also spawns hydras)?

Creation doesn't look too organized if you're inside it.

What are the best golem-centric modules? Are there even golem-centric modules outside of Adan's Wrath?

>>52509099
>Adan's Wrath
Is that the one where you all play Flesh Golems?

>>52509133
Yep.
It also has a really atmospheric abandoned monastery/dungeon.

>>52495475
The whole party is in a dungeon. Jenkins gets brutally murdered by a trap, leaving only the players. "So why the fuck did you even come down here?"

>>52507088
LBB, no Chainmail except as reference, no supplements, Outdoor Survival map.

>>52509475
>except as reference,
But that's not what Arneson intended!

LBB campaigns are CHANIMANIL campaigns.
LBB is a CHAINMAIL supplement.
You use LBB to supplement CHAINMAIL "downtime."

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>>52494168
Does anyone have a copy of the 4th Printing of Swords and Wizardy Whitebox?

The copy in the mega trove is broken.

>>52509516
I thought that the latest printing was the third printing.

>>52507309
Everything before 2E is definitely OSR.
Everything after 2E is definitely not OSR.
2E is borderline and may or may not be OSR depending on who you ask.

>>52509574
The guy is probably thinking of the core rules

here https://snw.smolderingwizard.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4&mobile=on

t. Phoneposter

Does anyone have the link to that really long AD&D Against The Giants actual play?

Thanks in advance

>>52509610
>Everything before 2E is definitely OSR.
1e had Dragonlance and Ravenloft so it is not OSR.

>>52502235
Grog'a'log? Why warchief have us built siege towers?

>What say you? Is siege. Build'n us towers for siege.

Yes, but... Siege towers be tall with ladders... So we can get over wall. Us'n only make towers... not even halt as tall as wall... And we ait got no wheels.

They ain't getting to the wall even if they wuz tall enough.

>erm....

So the army is just going to go walk right on past these towers when they go storm the castle and... wut? be inspired by them or something?

>pft, whatevers. The catapults are taking down the wall anyway. This just makework. You know what happen when goblins have idle hands.

>>52502235
>The suggestions I got were... memorable.
Post examples?

>>52509835

Wait a minute, you can run Dragonlance with any OSR system.

So therefore NOTHING is OSR! Okay, people, shut it down, OSR is over.

>>52508157
This is really quite a lot for what's essentially "fantasy Catholicism". Not that fleshing out things is a bad thing, but there isn't really much to give feedback on here without knowing your intent; it's fantasy pop-culture interpretation Catholicism with the serial numbers filed off as it stands. Did you want more historical? Less historical?

>>52494168

I have no idea what any of this is about but I need more information on that beautiful walking fort. Please tell me there is a game about those and that you have many more pictures to show me as this is my fetish.

>>52498285
Check out the ACKS Player's Companion. It tries to provide a point-build system that will give you classes that provide a similar feel to a B/X class.

It's quite possible to "game" the system of course, but it provides a sort of rough structure. The key difficulty in designing a custom OSR class is figuring the XP progression - unlike houseruling classes for later editions of D&D, XP scaling matters a lot in older rulesets. The ACKS Player's Companion method provides at least some guidance on assigning XP costs based on the number and potency of class features.

>>52503252
I think it's cool. if it works for your setting, do it.

>>52509610
>2E is borderline and may or may not be OSR depending on who you ask

Because if you know 1E and 2E well enough, the actual mechanical differences are negligible* until the desperation pulp Complete Guide Supplements and Player's Option.

*Most of the problems in 1E were lack of editor and/or Gary's stream-of-consciousness ramblings. Many OSR modules convert to 2E without really having to do the work of converting anything.

>>52509505
Yeah but chainmail's a bit of a shit wargame, so

It also has literally no significant campaign rules, so I'm not sure what you mean by downtime.

>>52503292
>Wizards get to ID magic items for free (which is handy). The goal is to have /all/ of their spells be as good as Sleep, ideally.
True, those are all positives in my book.

>Wizards don't feel weak in play, but my group doesn't have a baseline to compare them against.
I'll trust you there then. You guys have proper actual play experience after all.

>If your group is used to 3.5 - 5E Wizards, they will feel very underpowered
They're used to B/X, but the way I understand it, the GLOG Mages have less, but far stronger spells, while keeping away from the power curve of the higher levels. That may not be too bad after all.

>>52505063

>Painkillers
>Stimulants
>Bandages

How could these be used in an interesting first aid system.

In 1st edition AD&D, ninjas are multiclass characters who can fairly freely divide experience between the ninja class and their other class.

Would it be all right to extend this to all multiclass characters, or would it break the whole balance? What of allowing them, humans and demihumans alike, to pick up whole new classes later (going through a whole lot of trouble for it anyway)?

>>52509835
>Ravenloft
But the original module is as OSR as they get?

>>52510489
You could argue 2E is more OSR than 1E when you run it without any of the optional rules.

Am I missing something, or are fighter/magic-users 1st edition AD&D allowed to wear heavy armor without penalty? Why can't 2e fighter/mages do so anymore? Which ruling do you prefer and why?

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>>52510356
It's an AT-AT.

I wish Fire on the Velvet Horizon had a pdf.
All these things are incredibly expensive to import.

>>52513004
But almost everything after for the setting proper is super railroaded. Which is why I just take the 3e Ravenloft books and run LotFP with them.

>>52513507
>setting proper is super railroaded.
Oh, the actual boxed set? I misunderstood there.
Never read them, honestly. Did they actually manage to make the setting book railroady? How does that work? And what does the 3e Ravenloft do better?

So Forgotten Realms is a bullshit setting with Harpers and high-level characters ensuring nothing you do matters, with magic used to replace modern-day convenience to the point of having lost all its mystique, and with every square mile being fluffed by like three books so you've got very little space to make up your own shit.

Yet I still like the setting and feel it's got a lot of things to see and play through. It's kind of a guilty pleasure.

How do you fix Forgotten Realms into something more OSR-like?

What exactly is a an OSR setting?

>>52513657
probably as contentious a question as defining what is OSR in general.

I'll take a crack at it:
anything that
a) encourages hexcrawling.
b) isn't over-written as >>52513588 describes.
c) is a sandbox or involves a lot of sandbox elements like random tables.
d) lots of open-ended encounters, often with no pre-conceived solution. Situations, not scenes.
e) no metaplot to be followed. Maybe descriptions of various major factions and their modus operandi.
f) more than anything is a toolbox to aid in running any sandbox game - the setting fluff is easily removed so that the bare bones playable content can be harvested and absorbed into your own game.

>>52513657
>>52513970
In other words, Wilderlands of High Fantasy.

That setting is THE shit and I'm sad how little people care about it or even know about it.

>>52494979
>>52498285
>>52513657
Anon, is this you? wtf

>>52514033
People ask about it and you ignore them, that's why. --> >>52504382

>>52504382
I started mine from Ament Tundra, since it's pretty far away from everything and necessitates a lot of exciting journey.

But Ebony Coast is probably the quintessential starting point, with plenty of peace and farmland.

>>52513280
>Am I missing something, or are fighter/magic-users 1st edition AD&D allowed to wear heavy armor without penalty?

Think of it as elf: the class, and the f/mu is a distinct class of its own, with a low max level of power but very survivable.

>Why can't 2e fighter/mages do so anymore?

Vastly superior level caps, and can use leather, elven chain, and elven plate. I would however only make elven chain available at the same time full plate is available for humiez (about 1000 gp or whatever), and elven plate available at the same time AC -2 uber dragon armor is -- I like 2e fightermages being about 5 AC points behind fighters.

Which do I prefer? Well, I really like Bladesingers, I'll admit it. They're fuckin cool.

>>52503252
With cosmic alignments & alignment languages: Chaotic beasties semi-naturally tend to band together to fuck up civilization regardless of language barriers.

Without: Chaotic beasties tend to be doofy tribals that are primarily a threat to travelers but not civilization.

So... I like em.

In absence of alignment tongues, I like Elder Elemental Evil as a universal rallying point for anti-civilization forces. Similarly corny, but very powerful -- as far as I can tell, Elder Elemental Evil priests can ignore level caps, so you can totally have gnolls throwing fireballs or whatever.

>>52510242
Nice try T$Rcuck, but AD&D 1e popularized the railroady story-driven cancer that directly leads to garbage like Dungeon World and Gygax's dogmatic preaching on "follow all my rules or you aren't playing the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons™ game" laid the foundation for the autism of 3.PF.

1e is a fucking blight on par with 2e but you refuse to recognize it because muh Gygaxian prose.

>>52515190
>Gygax's dogmatic preaching on "follow all my rules or you aren't playing the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons™ game"

I thought Gygax said the rules are a toolbox.

>>52515190
>because muh Gygaxian prose.
Gygaxian prose is a virtue now?

>>52515190
At its core, 1st edition AD&D is just gathering up all the rules of original D&D and to some extent fitting them together better, and 2nd edition is the same but more refined and sensible.

The story-driven cancer came by the influx of new players who fucking loved that shit. It would've happened anyway. You're barking at the entirely wrong tree.

>>52515190

With Greyhawk and its introduction of thieves and half elves, OD&D and 1e are largely the same.

>>52515295
Sorry, I should say "are same-ish enough that if 1e puts you off, OD&D w/ Greyhawk will probably do so too"

>>52515252
Yes. Dungeon World is basically all the people who played vampires in World of Darkness during the 90s who started feeling nostalgic and wanted to do dungeon exploration "their superior storytelling way" in the 2010s.

It's an offshoot of WoD, not D&D.

Am I the only one who prints out their notes (usually no more between 2 to 5 sheets) before playing a game in person?

>>52515220
Gygax had a Dr.Jekyll/Mr.Hyde thing going on with his Sovereign Grognard and TSR Face personas.
>>52515239
It's still awful for reference material, but if you have similar books (retroclones, etc.) it's tolerable and "evocative" inspiration.
I'm personally not a fan, but I look for similar writing when deciding whether to follow a blog.

>>52515342
>OD&D w/ Greyhawk
It's OD&D is assumed to include Greyhawk. It's implied to include /all/ supplements, but without them you'd say LBB.

>>52514734
>Ebony Coast
Hey, thanks. Maybe I should read that WoHF Player's Guide, eh?

>>52515704
You'll want to read both Player's Guide and the bigass campaign guide.

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What adventure modules would you guys recommend for people trying out OSR for the first time but who are already very familiar with other RPGS?

Some of the classics like Against the Giants have a lot of weaknesses that might turn off experienced players who will find it too simplistic and boring.

>>52515699
>It's OD&D is assumed to include Greyhawk.

Okay. I did say they and AD&D are largely the same.

>>52515752
Shadowbrook Manor immediately comes to mind.

>>52515757
Sorry if it seemed like I was contesting that, I completely agree.

>>52515422

No it isn't. World of Darkness has nothing to do with Dungeon World, mechanically or by RPG lineage.

The only connection you could make is to go from the fact that World of Darkness said "story" all the damn time, but that's pretty thin. It was not remotely like a modern storygame, and didn't actually have any narrative-based mechanical support for the "story" that it was supposedly better at making than D&D.
It was a goddamn superhero game dressed up with goth makeup, and the story elements were marketing, not substance.

Hang on, I seem to have lost the point in ranting about WoD.

Oh yeah, Dungeon World was designed because AD&D was a complicated pain in the ass to run for a bunch of normalfags who didn't play RPGs and who didn't really care about the rules, so its creators hacked an easy to run storygame to do its job. It's a low-to-zero prep beer and pretzels D&D, no relation to the railroading World of Darkness.

>>52515752
Caves of Chaos (which is balanced more for a large party or if the party gets the men at arms) or ToEE (which is mostly reasonable for a medium size party).

>>52515807
>It's a low-to-zero prep beer and pretzels D&D

Well, "vaguely fantasy inspired narrativism." Its definitely not D&D in the least. Hell, fuckin Rifts is more D&D than Dungeon World.

>>52515771
>>52515828

Thank you.

>ToEE
Temple of Elemental or Existential Evil?

I thought T of Elemental Evil was a pretty boring slogfest? Does it have some really good parts?

>>52515928
>I thought T of Elemental Evil was a pretty boring slogfest? Does it have some really good parts?

The Village of Hommlet is excellent and makes for a good introduction to the way of OSR. Just prepare to replace the rest with something more interesting.

>>52515954
Okay.

>replace the rest

That's a shit load of work I don't have time for, unfortunately.

>>52515981
Nah, just take another adventure and change the Elemental Evil cult to something that ties the two adventures together.

>>52515771
https://osrnews.blogspot.ca/2014/06/shadowbrook-manor-review-labyinth-lord.html

>>52515680
Yes. Everybody else writes their notes by hand.
It's better as a mnemonic that way, and it's easier to take advantage of space on the page.

>>52515928
I liked what Little Keep on the Borderlands did (or especially its free, color maps for the keep and the keep dungeon), but I am not aware of anything neato about Existential Evil.

>I thought T of Elemental Evil was a pretty boring slogfest?

Its a very simple dungeon with medium intensity fights and potential for basic levels of trickery, seems like a good intro to me. Although I do like to make the enemies more magic oriented.

>>52515854

>"not muh D&D"

It's about a group of midlevel Fighters and Magic Users who go out into horrific dungeons where everything wants to kill them, it's pretty fuckin' D&D.
It feels closer to the freewheeling games of Basic I played as a kid back in the 80s than anything else I've ever played. (We started at higher levels and didn't use all the rules as we were more interested in door-busting monster-killing highjinks than in meticulously tracking torches and stuff.) You're free not to like it, but "it's not D&D in the least" is pretty weak.

Thoughts on using the OD&D setting as a hexcrawl?

https://i.4cdn.org/tg/1491187296010.pdf

>>52516332

> You're free not to like it, but "it's not D&D in the least" is pretty weak.

Liking or disliking has nothing to do with the fact that its not even vaguely, teensily, tinily, D&D. You can say that World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy (post FF1 or more loosely post FF5), and Fable are Dungeons and Dragons if you like, because, hey, um...

...its fantasy...

...and there's dungeons...

... so its LITERALLY DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS AMIRITE GUISE?

>We started at higher levels and didn't use all the rules

Wow, there you go. Why am I not surprised?

>>52516348
It's been done.

>>52516348

Hexcrawls are gud, just remember to, well... you don't have to rely solely on random monsters.

>>52516348 c >>52259593, also >>52516478

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>>52516438

>not muh D&D intensifies
>implying badwrongfun

Anon, there ain't nobody gettin' surprised here.

>>52516503
Oh, yes, I'm a fan of random tables too. Even embedded them in my cyberpunk retroclone.

You have BX. You can change 3 thing to make it look (and feel, while at play) like AD&D.

Race+class is already done for you.

>>52516637
Kits, NWPs, Planescape.

>>52516059
Intredasting. But I still don't get OSR is there any serious role-playing to it at all? Or is it all combat and wilderness travel.

>>52516877
The roleplaying is all on the player, not in the character description. Your character's actions write the story of your character's role in the world. You are judged by your actions, not your intent.

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>>52516059
Wow. Do you even write out by hand NPC stats and descriptions?

>>52517056
Yup.

>>52516877
>But I still don't get OSR is there any serious role-playing to it at all?
Roleplaying with NPCs can get serious, but roleplaying with other PCs is essentially nonexistent.

>>52517056
>NPC stats
What for?

>>52512903
>Would it be all right to extend this to all multiclass characters, or would it break the whole balance?
Multi-classing, itself, is a bit broken. Having two classes at level 8 is generally superior to having one class at level 9. With that said, and understanding that I've never seen a ninja played, I don't see how freely dividing your XP would be any more broken. The more unevenly you divide your XP, the more like a single-class character you are, but see below.

>What of allowing them, humans and demihumans alike, to pick up whole new classes later (going through a whole lot of trouble for it anyway)?
Because your XP requirements roughly double each level, it would be almost trivial to pick up a few levels in a second class once you reached mid to high level in your original class. If it takes you 250k XP to reach the next level, and it would only take you 8k to reach 3rd level in a second class, it seems like multiclassing is the obvious thing to do, as long as there are no penalizing restrictions that accompany this (reducing the armor you could wear, for instance). Hell, if folks were allowed to buy into three classes (fighter/magic-user/thief), I'd expect that everybody would be running around with three classes.

>>52517163
How much HD the hobgoblin have, their damage, xp value, etc.

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>>52517171
I mostly got the idea from Dungeon Master, where it works pretty well.

And sure, if you're a high-level adventurer, you'd be expected to know a little bit of everything by that point anyway, wouldn't you? Even Conan, primarily a fighter, had a few thief levels.

>>52513588
>magic used to replace modern-day convenience to the point of having lost all its mystique
First off, this is IMO a gross mischaracterization of Forgotten Realms. Maybe you could say this about Eberron, but definitely not FR - it's a fantasy kitchen sink setting where you can find examples of a range of societies with different levels of magic use.

>How do you fix Forgotten Realms into something more OSR-like?

This goes for a lot of published settings, but keep in mind many of the NPCs in many settings are the result of PCs from the original campaign being turned into important campaign NPCs. That's how these early settings got made.

If anything, these settings represent a "mature" OSR sandbox that multiple generations of players have gone through, and the world has become bigger over time through the actions of previous players. When you've got this perspective in mind and simply allow the players to effect their own sweeping changes to the setting (given the appropriate opportunity and power, of course), then even mega-settings like Forgotten Realms can be played as a sandbox.

In some senses, doing an OSR sandbox in a large published setting is actually easier, because the factions and places that might experience second-order effects from PC decisions are already there.

>>52513588
>How do you fix Forgotten Realms into something more OSR-like?

Spellplague

>>52513280
I'd assume that the changes in 2e are meant to restrain the power of fighter/magic-users. Would you rather be a fighter 10 or a fighter 9 / magic-user 10? Because the latter only requires 1 more point of experience. Would you rather be a magic-user 10, or a fighter 9 / magic-user 9? Because the former requires 250k experience, while the latter requires only 10k experience more.

>>52517241
>Even Conan, primarily a fighter,
Conan is a 9th or 10th level Thief with 16+ CON and 17+ STR.

>>52517171
>>52517304
Yeah, but once your single-class fighter is level 20, the fighter/magic-user will be precisely 14/14. It balances itself out in the end.

>>52515752
Seconding Village of Hommlet. Caves of Chaos is a bit too simple, but Hommlet features a nice mix of investigative elements, NPC interaction, with a dungeon that isn't overly complex but still has a few secrets and different approaches.

A more modern starter module might be LoTFP's Tower of the Stargazer (mostly system agnostic so you can use whatever ruleset you prefer); I'll note Stargazer (and many LoTFP modules) feature very little in the way of traditional combat though and tend to be more investigative-type modules.

If this is the first time running an "OSR" styled game, I think it's important not to be too ambitious. You'll have your hands full as GM trying to keep on top of a lot of the procedural tracking OSR demands, along with having to make a lot of judgement calls on areas the rules don't cover - having a relatively straightforward dungeon that you understand the internal "logic" of inside and out is a big help.

>>52517358
20 isn't the end, you typically retire near 10-15.
And it /does not/ balance out by then.

>>52517171
Well, if multiclassing in itself is a bit broken, then wouldn't it balance out well to open multiclassing to everyone, allowing them to pick new classes and allocate experience freely?

>>52517108
You are messing around with me. How much prep time do you put into your games? Also what kind of campaign are you running.

If it's based on Basic/Expert, why is it called B/X and not B/E?

>>52517683
Because Expert is pronounced as X-pert, and X is a cooler letter than E.

Does it break anything to allow classes to gain levels at the same rate? Assuming no multiclassing.

>>52517683

This: >>52517708 and also because "Bee-Ex" rolls off the tongue better than "Bee-ee"

>>52517241
How would you do hit points? +1-2 for a d4 class, +1-3 for a d6 class, +1-4 for a d8 class, and +1-5 for a d10 class?

Or maybe: +1 for a d4 class, +1-2 for a d6 class, +1-3 for a d8 class, and +1-4 for d10 class?

Or even: +0-1 for a d4 class, +0-2 for a d6 class, +0-3 for a d8 class, and +0-4 for a d10 class? (So, half the normal hit die size, and subtract 1 from your roll.)

All methods will give you a hit point boost over a single-class character though. The only way I see of this not being the case is to award hit points only if the new class has a larger hit dice size. Would you do +1/2 hp for every size higher and -1/2 hp for each die size smaller?

3 smaller: minus 0-3
2 smaller: minus 0-2
1 smaller: minus 0-1
1 larger: plus 0-1
2 larger: plus 0-2
3 larger: plus 0-3

That should give you the same average hit points that you would have if you'd been multiclassing by the standard rules, allowing you to use the systems interchangeably (even if the distributions are a bit different).

Otherwise, you'd have to make a distinction between normal multiclassing (assuming you allow it at all), and buying into a second class somewhere down the road. The latter could be similar to the class-and-a-half rules for Castles & Crusades, where your second class is always less powerful than your first. You might want to restrict it to being no more than half the level of the first in that case.

This is 1e? If so, don't expect anybody with decent armor to buy into thieves, as they're the only class with armor restrictions (well, I guess the thieving abilities of assassins would be affected too). At the very least, you might want to allow heavily-armored thieves to open locks, deal with traps, and hear noises (and, of course, read languages). Hell, you might even allow them to hide in shadows and pick pockets, only restricting climbing and moving silently.

>>52517733
>allow classes to gain levels at the same rate
You mean one of 3.PF's biggest blunders?

>>52517708
>The letter 'E' is sad now. :(

>>52517390
>LoTFP's Tower of the Stargazer

Is that the one where the first door to the dungeon has a handle coated in insta-death contact poison?

>>52517853
>one of 3.PF's biggest blunders
How so?

>>52507687
Going to ask this once again, the new setting by mystara's bruce heard, anything neat about it?

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>>52517358
Like level caps, it's unevenly applied. Most folks aren't going to see much if any play past name level, but those who do may eventually feel shut down. I think there must be some superior way of doing things. Maybe something like in the pic here?

>>52517733
xp rates are pretty much the only thing imposing class balance

>>52517928

Yep, the viper-shaped handle to the tower of the evil wizard who's known to be reclusive and nasty is trapped so that if you try to just walk in on him without knocking or being invited, you'll have to either be smart enough to spot the obvious (and thus be potentially entertaining to him) or else you'll die at the front door, saving him the hassle.

>>52517928
No, but The handles are snakes that poison you, and the way to get in is to use the knocker.

Honestly though, the supposed difficulty of the book is overblown. I ran the Tower with a couple people COMPLETELY new to role playing games and they understood to double check the snake-handles and try the knocker instead, all without anyone dying.

>>52517966
Calidar dude, but assymetric levelling,w hen you dig into the guts of the system, is a way of pacing out the power gain of different classes- baked right intot he system. if you take Basic Elves as a class, they're painfully slow to level, but better than wizards and fighters of equal level. They're going to be outpaced eventually though, keeping fighters a viable option. Arguably, if 3.pf had assymetric levelling there would have been a lot less ability to have feat dependency and trap feats, or casters/demi-casters supreme over martial classes.

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So I really want to run Deep carbon Observatory as a mini-campaign using LotFP. The problem is that the module gives no recommendations with regards to party size or average character level. Has anybody here run it? Any advice you could offer would be appreciated.

>>52517853
Gaining levels at the same rate is fine; it just means that you can't use differentiated XP requirements as a balancing factor, but that shouldn't be a big deal as there are plenty of other things you can tweak. I don't think it's a blunder, and even if it were, it certainly wouldn't be one of 3.PF's biggest.

>>52518086
>>52518042
So giving fighters/thieves some more tools would help even out a disparity given that leveling rates were equalized?

>>52518032
>>52518037
>Wizards: No sense of right or wrong architectural design.

>>52517683
Also basic and expert modules were coded with B and X respectively.

>>52517733
As >>52518019 nothing else is balancing the classes.
There are things that COULD, but they AREN'T doing it.

Standardizing the xp tables would require A LOT of tweaking to the classes.
Totally doable, but far more work than it's worth.

>>52518177
Why weren't the expert modules coded with E, then?

>>52518215
>nothing else is balancing the classes.

Apart from wizards being killed by a stiff breeze and having little in the means of choosing the spells they get?

>>52518086
>>52518042
I feel like the difference made by differentiate XP tends to be drastically overstated. In B/X, for instance, it's not until fighters reach level 12 that magic-users are a full level behind them. Just tweaking magic-user spell progression so that they never gain more than 1 spell per day when they level could have a bigger impact by then.

4/3/3/3/2/1 vs
2/2/2/2/2/2 or
3/2/2/2/2/1 or
3/3/2/2/2 or
3/3/3/2/1

>>52518229
Something weird with TSR's own internal module coding. Who could know what went on there.

>>52518243
>There are things that COULD, but they AREN'T doing it.
Those have arbitrary effects on power levels. Not meaningless, mind you. But arbitrary. They bring power levels to set points, but arbitrary points.

As written, such details *do not* balance classes on the same point. It's a good place to start when tweaking things to balance at the same point tho.

>>52518134
Giving thieves d6 hit dice alone would probably compensate for losing their quicker ability to level more quickly. If you wanted to further boost them, you could give them thief skills of a couple levels higher.

I see fighters as the standard XP (at least in Basic, where you don't have a weird, lurching progression to compensate for getting multiple attacks), so I'd leave them be, and maybe just tweak the spells of magic-users. I think clerics would work fine using fighter XP.

Demihuman classes are a bit trickier, and in particular elves. Halflings are probably okay as-is, but if anything, dwarves are too cheap as it is (though they wouldn't be totally broken under a unified xp system, like elves would).

Maybe elves are an exception and cost double? Alternately, maybe you have elves gain spells as a magic-user one level lower, you limit them to chainmail and prevent them from using shields or two-handed weapons, and you give them d4 hit points. That should go a long way towards evening them out.

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>>52518454
An example of an alternate wizard spell progression, with it taking 3 class levels to gain access to a new level of spells once they've gotten 4th level spells.

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How do you handle players figuring out secret door locations based on mapping cues? e.g. negative space, symmetry, a missing room.

Do they automatically find the door if they look in the right spot? Or is searching in the right spot what triggers the x-in-6 roll?

>>52518863
Depends on the door. Most of mine aren't so much "secret" as they are "covered," so I usually give it to them if they look in the right spot.
Rather than an X-in-Y chance, it's probably better to make them roleplay searching it if it's well hidden.

But sure, if it's well concealed in some ambiguous way (if you, the referee, didn't put effort into the door) then an X-in-Y chance each turn is fine.

Gimme a tourist class, I'm feelin Twoflower.

>>52515190
>Dungeon World
>railroady
It's a prerp-light game about riffing off actual play and unexpected developments.
It has many problems, but being a railroad ain't one of them

>>52518863
Is it just concealed? It can be found in a normal 10-min search.
Is it secret, and they search for secret doors bilndly (within an area)? That calls for a roll.
Do they just go and poke the wall, saying 'there's a door here, we are sure' -- they find it.

>>52518931
Never ask for multiple rolls, it makes it a meaningless grind. Ask for a roll, and if they fail, the task is too complicated for now; you try again after gaining a level.
And this is not explicit in some rulesets, but I think turning undead should be a one-time roll too.

>>52519198
Starts each adventure with [hp]d12 gp.

2d6 hp, +1 per adventure where they don't die and aren't robbed.
Acts at 0th level. Proficient with dagger and slings.

Proficient with short swords at15hp and shields at 20.
No hp cap, but no other advancement.
Saves as a 2HD monster.

>>52518084
The average party of 5 people of about 4-6th level each should have it relatively comfortable, if you can describe anything in DCO as comfortable.

>>52519383
>Never ask for multiple rolls,
I agree. If they fail the roll, they need that many turns to find the door (or to be sure there's nothing there).
>it makes it a meaningless grind.
I disagree. They're welcome to dally, but they have to account for Wandering Monsters.

>>52519505
Nah, that's playing dirty, and it's boring.
>You can't open this
>Ok, we'll try to find another way to enter
vs
>You failed this time
>Eh.. What's my chance to do it? What's the encounter chance?
>I try again
>You failed again (...)

I'd rather focus on the important stuff.

>>52519452
>[hp]d12 gp
*[hp]d12 x10 gp.
Whoops.

>>52519198 So, some thematic explanation here:

The extra proficiency is picking up a thing or two from hanging around your mercenaries so long.

The hp advancement actually *isn't* advancement from a thematic perspective.
While other character's hp represent a variety of things, a tourist's hp is almost entirely their luck.
There's essentially not (thematic) difference between a tourist at 13/13 or 1/13 hp (or 1/13hp and 1/45hp, or 7/45hp and 42/45hp, etc.)
The +1hp is an acknowledgement that, "yes, you've been lucky all along... you didn't notice because it wasn't relevant."
And when they finally *do* die, you know /exactly/ how lucky they've been all along. But you only found out because their luck ran out.

No idea how to fluff the extra money though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But it ends up with the party more often than not, provided they can roleplay scamming it off the tourist.

>>52506913
Full Metal Plate Mail is better

>>52519605
That's more bookkeeping though, you have to keep track of every door for every character (or at least every thief).

I think the ideal middle ground is that they can retry next time they enter the dungeon.

>>52521358
Nah man you don't track it. If they return to the door and you forgot they failed already, it's fair that they get another try.
If you want to track it, ask the players to put it on the map -- that also reminds them to come back later to this dungeon.

What manner of dungeon crawls could Immortal-level characters go for?

>>52523018
Extra- or multi-planar bullshit, mostly.
They could muck about on the Prime Material, but all the loot is "summon an Earth Elemental" tier, and the only real danger is save-or-die contact poisons.

>>52523018

The first dungeon.
The bottom of the sea.
God's Heart.
The decaying fortress of the greatest warrior who every lived.
The tower of the greatest wizard who still yet lives
Astral realm
Fairy Queen's castle
The tomb of the first Dwarven Kings
Explore the massive ark-sized ship of the first vessel to circumnavigate the world
Conjure raw magic into what it thinks a dungeon should be. Explore that.
Open up one of your character's souls, explore that.
Go between the two doors at the 13th hour. You cannot leave until the next 13th hour.
There is a painting of a cave entrance that fills whoever sees it with absolute dread. Find a way into this painting.

Apart from ice trolls and ice mephits, what other strongly ice-themed creatures are there on low levels?

>>52513588
>How do you fix Forgotten Realms into something more OSR-like?
you can't, it's a pile of irredeemable garbage

>>52523362
Lankhmar had Ice Gnomes.
One of the Dragon Annuals had Crystal Skeletons (1 HD undead that explode upon death)

Can someone list for me the advantages of/reasons for playing 1e/b/x over 5e and vice versa? I'm not really concerned with setting since I don't like the 'canon' D&D settings like FR, eberron, etc.

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>>52510204
>Post examples?

Can I play:

Batman
A guy who trains horses!
An anvil. No, wait, a blacksmith. That's what they're called.
What's a crossbow?
Who decides how tall our characters are?

>>52523581

Setting is as flexible as in any game. Most GMs and players I know play in homebrew/custom made up settings anyway.

As for rules, the advantages are;
>Less crunch
>Less rules in general
>More suited towards DM fiat or 'rulings over rules' style gameplay
>Less Classes
>Races are far more different from each other (as they are classes instead of stat modifiers)
>Less rolls per session
>Player skill over character skill
>More suited to dungeon crawling over general high fantasy adventures

>>52523592

>Specialist
>Cleric of horse religion
>Fighter (blacksmith background)
>Wizard, confused about what crossbows are and how they work, but knows Wizards everywhere love using them for some reason
>roll 2d6x10 for hieght in inches

There's your party.

>>52523581
5Ale places a lot of value on attributes, B/X places almost none
B/X has a lot of rules for time management in dungeons, 5e not so much
B/X is a much lighter system b/c: you're expected to role for social situations, searching, disarming traps, etc. while 5e expects you to roll for them

>5e setting
Pretty much whatever.
Expected to run high fantasy tho.

>B/X
Dungeons are spooky, but the Wilderness is more dangerous
If you weren't a suicidal poorfag, you would stay in town
Expected to run Swords&Sorcery (life is cheap; magic is spooky and uncommon, but not rare; every man, woman, and child is a master thief), but anything works if life is cheap

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>>52523679
The question isn't "could I make it work?" It's "should I make it work?"

If you ask someone who eats only chicken nuggets whether they want gazpacho or minestrone, and they respond "Whichever one tastes most like chicken nuggets."...

You /can/ solve this problem. You can give them the soup they want based on what they suggested. But they have shitty criteria for evaluating soup.

>>52523623
>>52523704
and how would you say 1e compares to B/X and 5e?

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>>52510344
>This is really quite a lot for what's essentially "fantasy Catholicism". Not that fleshing out things is a bad thing, but there isn't really much to give feedback on here without knowing your intent; it's fantasy pop-culture interpretation Catholicism with the serial numbers filed off as it stands. Did you want more historical? Less historical?

More... generic.

I'm trying to make this as "by the numbers" as possible, without straight up saying "Yes, ok, fantasy Catholics."

I just want to know if it's offensive, offensively inoffensive, or just plain stupid.

>>52523743
>okay, well there's chicken broth in the minestrone?
>cool the most important part is eating with my friends!

I have no idea what happened with your group, but the scene of someone who would use mcnuggets as a measure just played out in my head like that. Sort of a charmingly affable idiot.

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>>52512135
>I'll trust you there then. You guys have proper actual play experience after all.

Well, soon enough, you'll have some too.

If you're noticing stuff on my blog that doesn't work for you, let me know, and I can hack something together.

>>52523838
AD&D is near 5e in rules-weight, maybe even slightly heavier
But most of the extra rules are convoluted or needless shit
The combat system in particular needs to be stripped down to even be playable
That said, the extra rules/content have lots if gems in them

To "play AD&D" you either have to [strip bits out until it's playable] or [steal bits until you're system resembles AD&D more than it does the spine you glued everything to]
I don't play AD&D, but if I did I would probably try to do the former. The latree is more popular in this thread tho

There isn't a good "pre-stripped" version of AD&D either, since no two groups can agree on what to take out

>>52523872
I pegged it as eyerolling/10 on the offensive scale. At least the Authority isn't evil, so you avoid probably the biggest cliche.

>>52508157
>>52508174
>>52508192
>>52508212
>>52508230

Why are you taking so much from Goblin Punch's setting but not actually just taking it wholesale?

Centerra is a great setting. Much better then anything you can create, I can guarantee you that.

t. Arnold Knuth

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>>52524050
>Centerra is a great setting. Much better then anything you can create, I can guarantee you that.

It absolutely is a great setting, and if I were running a game completely of my own choice, I'd probably use it. I wouldn't say I /couldn't/ do better, but Arnold's been at this for a long time, and he's very, very good.

But I was asked to run a "classic" game. A "generic, old school game." I am stuck with the well-worn chestnuts and the tropes and because that's what my players requested.

Centerra is amazing and innovative and rich and wonderful... and therefore, completely unsuitable.

Go figure.

>>52524048
I'll live with it. And the Church isn't evil, not even the bad priests. They're just... People.

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>>52523882
>Sort of a charmingly affable idiot.

It's the best most of us can hope for.

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>Not making the primary religion in your setting based off Vodun

You're all plebeians of the highest degree.

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>>52524394
That's... exactly the point with what I'm doing.

I want the most generic, boring, by the numbers, adaptable religious system I can put in. I want a system that doesn't feel innovative or new or groundbreakingly exciting at all.

I mean, look at stuff like this!

http://whatwouldconando.blogspot.ca/2016/02/an-infinity-of-gods.html

or

www.lastgaspgrimoire.com/religion-is-a-nest-of-serpents/

There's so much good stuff out there. But I'm choosing chicken nuggets, because my players want a "classic American fast food experience".

>>52524332
Yeah, that came across more negatively than I meant. The group I dm for could use someone who's main focus is them working together, getting along and playing a game as a team.

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>>52524493
Oh no, mine probably came across as negative too. I'm pretty sure that my tombstone will read "charmingly affable idiot". At least, if my wife outlives me, it will.

But anyway, unusual measurement and comparison systems are excellent. And I'm sorry to hear your group isn't really a team. Have you considered using a villain who attempts to turn the players against each other? Nothing creates bonds like being told to fight, if your group is normally contrary.

>>52524549
They're all just new. I remind them when its getting too all-over-the-fuck and they'll probably get it eventually. The villain idea could work out though.

>>52523186
Wow, now I want to play an immortal Planescape-esque campaign.

How do I make an OSR blog that isn't trash?

>>52525692
Write some reviews first to test your analytical and writing skills.

>>52525692
Make lots of good tables for generating stuff. Make fun dungeons. Find ways to use stuff everyone has in a different way in order to make playing easier.

>>52498987
>how the fuck do I play this drum

>>52525692
It's not enough to make content worth playing, you need to make content seem worth playing.
Be evocative.

The easiest way to do that is to be vague, without being ambiguous. Make your readers fill in some blanks.
They'll like *your* ideas, since they're actually their ideas, and, by association, they'll like your ideas they've tied theirs to,

>>52525561

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>>52526519

Are there any other "must-have" cleric spells, other than:

Animate Dead
Astral Spell
Banish
Create Food
Cure Light Wounds
Gentle Repose
Hold Person
Inflict Serious Wounds
Know Alignment
Light
Protection from Evil
Quest
Raise Dead
Remove Fear
Sending
Speak with the Dead
Sticks to Snakes
Truesight
Undetectable Alignment
Water Walk

Spells that you'd be shocked aren't included on a cleric spell list?

>>52527268
>recognizing me
Et tu, Skerples?

Only thing you're missing is a combat buff.
Something like Bless or Prayer.
If you don't feel icky stealing from 3.5, I would nick Righteous Might.

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>>52527538
Bless sounds about right. I can make that work.

Also, there's usually between 30 and 50 posters in each thread. This one's busier than usual. At this point, everybody's getting recognizable. It's like a college dorm. You might not know a guy's name, but you know his face, and that he /really/ likes curry or has an annoying laugh.

>>52525692
Play a lot. Don't be just ideas, test them in practice. Ideally talk about that and how it went, what you would/did change.

Maps and other neat drawing are good too.

>>52517340
Except Conan is also a combat monster that wins against impossible foes through sheer force of arms on numerous occasions. Unless you want to make some homebrew class that can stab as well as it sneaks then you'd be better off modeling him with RQ 6 or something.

>>52525692
Avoid politics.

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>>52528266
Alternatively, go full Zak S. It seems to work for him.

>>52528266

Way ahead of you.

Though DESU a more right wing/conservative voice on the blogosphere would be pretty unique. If controversial.

>>52528429
God no. The last thing I need is more people thinking that OSR games are some sort of autismo alt-right MRA clique. Just shut the hell up and keep your elf games and your politics seperate, and that counts for both sides.

>>52528162
A 9th level Thief has the same THAC0 as a 9th level Fighter.
Add in the +2 to-hit (from Strength) and the Thief doesn't fall behind until 29th level (and doesn't stay behind until 35th).

That's also enough Constitution for a Thief to match a same-leveled Fighter's average hp.


Meanwhile, the only Thief Ability that Conan doesn't spam is pick pockets.
He doesn't exactly start a Thieves Guild either, but he does routinely set up camp and attract bandit (1st level Thief) followers.

>>52528429
i'm sure the solution to everything is more whining about the evil sjw bogeyman, sure
that'll get lots of people on your blog in an instant

>>52528682
>A 9th level Thief has the same THAC0 as a 9th level Fighter.

That's... incredibly wrong.

>Add in the +2 to-hit (from Strength)

He needs exceptional strength for this, which only fighters can get.

>but he does routinely set up camp and attract bandit (1st level Thief) followers.

He also routinely sets up a castle and becomes a lord.

New thread:
>>52530287

>>52530194
If no one mentions a system, assume B/X not AD&D.

>>52530438
I wasn't aware B/X had THAT great a monopoly over this place.

Or that its fighters were such garbage.

Can thieves wear heavy armor in B/X too? Because Conan did wear heavy armor rather a lot.