Exalted General - /exg/

Really ought to put a link to this in the OP.

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>>52488076

This one will hopefully fix the comment.

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>>52487910

Is it really worth keeping 2E/2.5/etc resources linked? Do people still play it?

>>52488777
A few people do, mostly due to ongoing campaigns involving non-Solar splats being played.

>Holden and Morke started the process of writing good mechanics after an edition of broken shit.
>Hailed as the saviors of the game
>Eventually promoted until they replace the old developer and come to control the whole line
>Promise a whole new edition done right from the start
>Their regime becomes closed and secretive
>Promised golden age turns out to be deeply flawed
>The former heroes become tyrants and have to themselves be overthrown in turn

Goddamn, but this is the most thematically appropriate way for drama to happen to this game. It's practically fucking poetic.

>>52488777
It's already there, and at least offers fluff to read

>>52489146
Morke and Holden delivered good mechanics for the core, and for all the bitching their bad personalities inspired the book sold extremely well. The problem, really, was the fact that they were taking way too long to write more content.

>>52489146
Does this mean Vance is the Scarlet Empress?

Fanart when?

>>52488777

Can confirm, still playing a heavily homebrewed 2e Lunars game we started in like... 2006 or 2007, once a week like clockwork. We've finally hit the end though, should be wrapped up in another few weeks or so.

So what do you guys want from Warstriders when Arms hits? Walking magical WMDs? Something that adds to the game but doesn't derail or define it? Anime Mecha Bullshit?

>>52489238
The middle one! The middle one!!!

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>>52489256

Yeah. Devs said way back when that Evocations should put regular Artefacts on the same level as Warstriders, and with both 5 dot artefacts that we've seen so far being capable of taking out entire city blocks.

Strormbringer has me hyped for Arms. Lets just hope that book will have rules for homebrewing Evocations.

>>52489238
The middle one, I guess. I want them to have enough power and complexity to be an interesting element of games when they're around, but not warp everything else around them. Ideally they'll be terrifying weapons, but have limits to how they can reasonably be used so that "hop in your mecha" isn't the standard response to every conflict.

I don't know what those restrictions would be, though, beyond the obvious logistics of hauling around a giant suit of magic robot armor. Maybe that's enough. I like to think they'll be better at mass destruction and fighting giant opponents than dueling human-sized combatants, though.

>>52489415

Didn't one of the devs post a gambit that tore open the fuselage of a Warstrider, allowing you to attack the pilot for 1i? IIRC, it could be fixed in battle with a Craft roll.

>That irc stuff last thread
Well I had hoped for a while that this was a more voluntary thing and there were still chances of seeing them doing some work once they got their personal lives sorted but looks like that's shot.
Remind me, did vance say he's been doing basically all the work on the DB charmset? Guess we find out how bad this is when that hits.

>>52489199

Morke and Holden quite literally ripped off the battle system from a rather popular video game, introduced ridiculous Charm bloat when one of the worst parts of 2E was the 10 thousand fucking Charms hanging around for everyone, and delivered a product years late, then proceeded to sit around and do jack shit for the last year.

>>52488777
yes it is worth it, why would it even bother you?

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>>52489238

Anime mecha bullshit, with no brakes. Warstriders have been Not-Escaflowne's for years, but always had the shittiest rules in every edition.

I want an edition where Warstriders are actually good, and don't require your own private mecha facility powered by burning gold dumptrucks full of money just to keep it powered up for more than 10 minutes every 3rd Tuesday of alternating months.

>>52489785
>Those last two points mixed in on some prime level bait with all the right buzzwords
Excellently done, an easy 9.5/10

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>>52489813

I just thought it was a bit outdated at this point. Plus 2E was a mechanical clusterfuck.

>>52489878

If any of this was wrong, they wouldn't be fired right now, would they?

>>52489859

I know how you feel, but I'm also afraid of a single Warstrider immediately recontextualizing any game it's in. "That guy has a Warstrider, and I'll never be able to keep up unless I have one, too." Amd then everyone and their dog has one because that's the way the game is now. It's like the ST throwing nothing but Solaroids in as enemies because he can't conceive of anything else that can challenge a circle of Solars.

I suppose, most importantly, I want Warstriders to be fun.

>>52489231
What does 10 years of Exalted look like, anon? Have you completely broken the setting over your knee?

>>52489785
Translating Dissidia's mechanics to pen and paper effectively is a lot harder than just copy pasting things. It is a non argument to say the engine isn't an accomplishment based on Dissidia because there were still a thousand different ways for the mechanics to be translated. 2E used FF's ATB system for tick combat, so why was 2E's combat shit while 3E's was good?

The Charm bloat argument is another non-argument. What precisely does it mean, how does it harm the game? Beyond potential options paralysis, the charms functioned well while having no trap choices or essential charms like Perfect Defenses.

Lateness is the only legit criticism, and that more than anything else is why Vance and Minton are in charge

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>>52489923

Funny part is, even with anime bullshit style mecha, if they follow the tropes of them, it'll still allow completely normal people to take them on.

why does anybody even particularly *care* if solars are demons? demons aren't all that bad in the setting, dragonbloods certainly aren't shy about summoning them to do random pointless things that are mildly inconvenient to do themselves or hire human servants for. except the fucking anathema which must be cleansed with fire immediately

>>52489915
No. The only credible arguments are lateness and slowness: if the other two were even remotely plausible they'd have been fired much, much sooner. It's a pathetic argument

>>52489961
>so why was 2E's combat shit while 3E's was good?

Because 2E's was based off Power Combat, a notoriously shitty and broken "upgrade" of 1E's combat. And it somehow managed to be even more fundamentally broken than even Power Combat, and introduced an incredibly dull combat paradigm.

>The Charm bloat argument is another non-argument. What precisely does it mean, how does it harm the game?

Clutter is what it means. Bloated book sizes, potentially redundant Charms (remember how people keep saying parts of the Craft tree are shit?), and parceling out tiny mechanical benefits for little gain, but you still have to know a bunch of random junk for that little gain. Basically, it just slows everything down and adds tons of extra little rules to memorize rather than trying to parse down the mechanics to make everything smoother.

>>52489231
can you share homebrew links and thoughts on what works?

>>52489961
>Translating Dissidia's mechanics to pen and paper effectively is a lot harder than just copy pasting things.
Alright, imma take you up on that challenge and translate Dissidia's mechanics to Exalted, right now. SO, you have your attack rolls like regular exalted, but you also have a Brave pool. You make a normal Exalted attack roll, but instead of doing damage, you take points from your opponent's Brave pool and add them to yours, equal to your successes. Then you can do an HP attack, We'll make it a little harder to hit with one of these by not getting any accuracy from your weapon. Then, if you hit, instead of doing the normal Exalted damage calculation, you roll your Brave pool and deal damage equal to your successes. edit: testing shows that damage is a bit high, we'll nerf it by making it so that tens don't give double successes on damage rolls for HP attacks.

WOW I did it, that was SO HARD, you have no IDEA!!

As a Dawn-Caste, how many combat charms should I have before it's 'too much,' and I get some utility charms?

>>52490092
There is no way to answer this without knowing the campaign you're playing.

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>>52490092

Depends on how hard you want to murder everything/not die. Personally, I just go balls deep into whatever my Supernal is, and if that Supernal doesn't offer some sort of defensive option, I then pick up some Charms from a defensive ability.

>>52490088
You literally just copy pasted Exalted's interpretation of Dissidia. Why not do an original interpretation if it's so easy. Show the math.

>>52489941

We have pretty much crushed the setting, yes. Our characters started off 100 years before the Time of Tumult, and our goal was to build the largest kingdom/empire possible in preparation for the "game start." The GM made it clear he wanted a high power game. We are currently Essence 6-7 and most of our antagonists are in the 8+ range.

We began in the Vostok region right on the edge of the Wyld, and have basically conquered everything in the "V" between the River of Tears and the Silver River. Our southernmost holdings are directly across the river from the Black Chase and Sijan.

We spent about eighty or so years building both kingdoms and alliances quietly and ended up being tested when a complex series of events led us to angering the Neverborn, who sent a coalition of DLs to destroy us. The SKS decided to side with us because we had the only known Solar mates at that point, and the DLs were defeated. After we beat them, we just kept marching south as the SKS' star rose and more young Lunars began flocking to them. We also have a huge ghost army as well and have conquered most of the Northern Underworld. MoW and Walker are the northernmost DLs now.

We've essentially replaced the Bull of the North after crushing the Realm at Rubylak in the Linowan region. Cherak is terrified we're going to cross the River of Tears and come after them next. Our GM is doing his own spin on the "invasion from Malfeas" plot. though, so it appears our orgy of conquest has come to an end.

>>52490092

Depends on your planned build. You could easily buy up an entire Martial Art style at chargen, but if you are looking at the other combat abilities, you'll want to know what kind of fighting style you'll have in advance.

Call the Blade is a good utility charm that shuts down disarming.

>>52490133
They didn't do any math, all the numbers for the base system are the same exact storyteller system numbers, 1-5 for natural ability at whatever, 0-5 for skill, 7 not dead yet boxes. they just added the brave system from dissidia as an additional step so that succeeding on a single accuracy check with a big fuckoff two handed weapon isn't instant death.

>>52490231
EX3 is literally just EX2 with an extra layer of health and an ablative defense track.

>>52489238
Option 3, if you please.

>>52490162
I'm thinking of making a SPSitV Style character, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to buy the whole tree or just go up to Liquid Steel Flow.
I'm obviously gonna get Thunderbolt Attack Prana and its prerequisites, plus I was thinking of getting Mendicant Spirit because it fit my character archetype (he's an unnasuming beggar-swordsman based on Meti from Kill Six Billion Demons). I'm not sure if I'd need any defensive charms, or if I can just rely on excellencies.
Is there anything obvious I'm missing? Are the other 4 charms from SPSitV Style worth it?

>>52490075

The most important thing I can tell you is to have at least one person in your group who understands math, especially the GM. I ran a 1.0 game of Exalted prior to our current GM, and he's done a vastly better job than me because he's good at math and can design opposition and challenges competently. This is so, so, important.

We did not use anyone's homebrew in particular. The GM basically edited the system as he went along. About a third of the way into the game, he went through and systematically did edits on ALL the Solar Charms and Lunar Charms that he thought needed work.

A bit later this also happened with MA styles our characters wanted to learn.

He also came up with a sheet of rules for fixing the broken castes and becoming First Age Lunars, a task my character's Twilight mate accomplished together with Raksi near the end of the game.

Finally, he basically invented Hekatonkhire/Deathlord Charms from scratch because he felt that Arcanoi sucked and making DLs 99,999 XP Solars was dumb and uncreative.

The "core" tree a lot of DLs and Heks started from had a Charm that lowered target numbers for rolls for harming/killing/destroying things depending on where they were - Creation, Shadowlands, UW, or Labyrinth. This was followed by a Charm that granted motes based on stunts centered around negative intimacies, and then two or three powerful unique Charms per Hekatonkhire (and more with DLs), with stuff like perfect defenses and what have you thrown in where needed.

IMO the Black Art Charms he did for the Deathlords are his most impressive work, I should see if he'll let me post them somewhere for people to look at.

>>52488777
At least for fluff and mechanical feeling.

How are we supposed to know how to play a Ghost, Dragon King, Mountain Folk, Raksha, DB, Lunar, Sidereal, Abyssal, Infernal, Alchemical when the books about them will be released in ten years from now?

How are we supposed to know more about literally all the world when the books about the world will be released in twenty years from now?

3e is dead. At least 2e lived.

>>52489785
Ok Shyft

>>52490341

All f Single Point i good, as long as you keep its weaknesses in mind. It has little to no defence; you'll be relying on your excellency to bring up your Parry, so maybe you should consider bracnhing out into the defensive trees of Melee or buying up Dodge. It has no accuracy enhancers, meaning you have difficulty gaining initiative or winning clashes. It needs Willpower to power most of its charms, so you can't use them constantly. It relies on a good JB, the form charm can be activated reflexively if you win the JB, which also means higher initiative to start the fight with. Losing the JB will seriously tip the scales against you, so buy up Awareness.

Remember, the key to being strong is knowing your weaknesses.

>>52488777
Absolutely. I've been part of 3 games so far, and all the games specified 2.5E.
They were houseruled in some way, but it was 2.5E nontheless. Also unlike 3E, it's a complete edition, with other type of exalts than Solars as well.

>>52491020
2.5e isn't a complete edition. 2e is, however.

>>52490593
Vance and Minton will have a good supplement treadmill.

>>52491079
How come? It has all the exlat types, with charms, plus fae.
It has all the worlds fluff and mechanic (Compasses)
It has all the dramatis personae, and mostly statted.

Yes the number is five decimals short of a whole but it's still a completed edition.

>>52490231
So what should damage look like? How quickly should initiative change? How much is a fair expenditure for gambits and charms? What's a good number for starting initiative? How much should be gained on a crash, if anything? What are the penalties for a crash? How much should be lost on a miss, if any? What should be the dice pool for one type of attack over another? How are defenses against these attacks determined?

You act terribly smug with the benefit of hindsight but it's not so simple to translate a videogame into TT. If you disagree then by all means, translate the Total War games into a tabletop war game. Because last I checked Warhammer Total War was a very different game from Warhammer tabletop, even though they had the same units and everything!

>>52490288
If that were true then Paranoia Combat, Perfect Spam, and Rocket Tag would still be a thing. Just like in Godbound.

>>52491255
Not every Exalt splat got an update for 2.5.

>>52489785
>ripped off
The default battle system for like every fucking game is "roll dice to hit a thing," so any source of inspiration outside of dockside tavern gambling is a powerful innovation in the service of universal system growth.

>ridiculous Charm bloat
"Oh, god, guys, it's so terrible having all these...awesome Melee Charms. If only I had few interesting options, and a single viable path of advancement again!"

Many Charms are not good and/or lazy, but the NUMBER isn't the problem, and notably all the combat trees (IE, the foundation of the game) kick ass, as do all the Martial Arts. Performance has a bunch of stupid dice-adders, but Performance is mostly for girls and fake-girls to play fuck-the-newbie over the internet. RL groups, IE the ones that are actually roleplaying in the first place, generally aren't going to be fucking around with the bad trees to begin with - which is why H & M concentrated development elsewhere.

>years late
Exalted 3E should not have been released before 2018's last quarter. Releasing it early was a huge mistake and the biggest contribution to the whining you see spreading like cancer everywhere: unfinished work tainted by the grubby desperation of the entitled. The Kickstarter should have set its end-date at 2020 and let people donate as long as they fucking want.

>>52491255
it really isn't

i don't understand. why were holden and morke fired? what did they do, try to fuck richt's wife?

>>52491557
because of shit like this:

Holden Shearer @HoldenShearer 13h

OPP unfollowed me on twitter. harsh D=

Holden Shearer @HoldenShearer 13h

I'm not saying Mike Pence is a rapist, but Mike Pence sure seems to think Mike Pence is a rapist.

>>52490415
would he feel comfortable sharing all that?

>>52491585
Way to virtual signal there Holden.

>>52491585
Where'd he say RichT was a rapist?

>>52491585
Good lord, how hard is it to not shitpost on your professional channels?

>>52491655
He may as well go hog wild now, he's done anyways.

>>52491682
Oh, he's going hogwild.

Retweet: To be a consumer is to be feminized. The cult fan positions himself against consumption & women. Women "ruin" sacred cult experience

Original: Soon to be the most vandalized attraction in America [about a museum with a mechanical Trump installation]

Original: Speaking as an artist, I used to hold freedom of expression as the highest possible virtue. Then I met libertarians on the internet.

>>52491740
Shortly before he was fired: Sometimes I like to imagine a really heavy truck backing over Steve Bannon's head. Optimus Prime, maybe.

I am satisfied with Ex3's core system, I have a game going with a good group going and we're all enjoying ourselves. I just want the supplements to come out.

I don't have anymore fucks to give about people bitching about Holden's tweets.

>>52491740
>To be a consumer is to be feminized. The cult fan positions himself against consumption & women. Women "ruin" sacred cult experience

What the fuck does that even mean?

>>52491585
I'm not saying Holden is a faggot, but Holden sure seems to think Holden is a huge ass blasted anal devastated faggot with nojob now.

>>52491778
It means that if you virtue-signal hard enough by retweeting loons no one will realize that your support for trans-rights is based entirely on your own fetishized desire to fuck the individuality out of them and you share a soul with people like JonTron Milo, you're just using a different filter over its endless anguished emesis.

What the tweet literally means is something like if you're a casual, you're spiritually a woman, and women are casuals, and the cycle makes the sweaty hamlord gatekeepers of true fandom upset or something. Every side of that debate is such a faggot.

>>52491848

He still works at the gas station.

>>52491768
But do you have fuck to give about Holden's tweets?

I mean, I have exactly zero fucks to give about people bitching about people bitching about Holden's tweets, which incidentally you are, fuckface.

>>52491892
Yes, because I'm a fan of this stupid fucking Chinojap appropriation-festival of a weeaboo D&D clone and there is literally nothing better in my life than raging about how devs whose creative output over a ten-year period dwarfs my entire human contribution to the human race sometimes say too-liberal shit that I basically completely agree with but try personally to state less balls-out controversially. In part because that's cringey as fuck, but also in part because I'm kind of a coward about every form of self-expression, and that's probably the bigger factor since my severe autism makes everything I do cringe anyway even if I don't realize a given failure of the social instinct for years at a fucking time.

You may think that I'm parodying the opposition, but I'm being serious. I'm anon and I ain't proud.

>people so mad at holden they turn into /pol/tards

So how about that Exalted eh

>>52491892
i don't give a fuck about Holden's tweets. he is what he is, and that's generally fine. he's a natural follower who morke led astray into uncomfortable waters but i have fond memories of how he was before 2.5 and he's still a good writer and developer.

morke made cobra style, though. also this:

John Morke @hatewheel 12h12 hours ago
More
John Morke Retweeted Holden Shearer
Same here. I guess all that work didn't count for anything.

Holden Shearer @HoldenShearer
OPP unfollowed me on twitter. harsh D=

>>52491989
that's what we in the faggot industry call a deliberate escalation

>>52491959

It's decent. It could be better. Not gonna turn it down or anything, but it really shouldn't have tried to reinvent all of the fluff.

>>52491947
>too-liberal shit that I basically completely agree with
>over a ten-year period dwarfs my entire human contribution to the human race

Checks out.

>>52492032
https://www.patreon.com/emptyset

https://www.patreon.com/Vazkii

fucking looool

>>52492030
Bringing the Fluff back to 1E and adding a whole bunch of locations is not really reinventing.

>>52491959
>Holden Defense Force

So are you paid by WW to defend Holden on an anonymous image board?

Ah, no, I forgot. You aren't because HOLDEN HAS JUST BEEN FIRED HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>52492167
>not even Holden getting fired will stop people being butthurt about Holden

I just want to talk about the fucking game you idiot, not pore over some now irrelevant faggot's twitter.

Imbecile.

Things we know about lunars
>Focus on being predators, whether that means physical, trying to outwit someone, or anything else
>Somehow rage is going to be incorporated, might be an actual mechanic
This could maybe turn out okay. Still doesn't fix their main problem in my mind.

>>52492189
What in your mind, is their main problem?

>>52492188
>Moving the goal post.

Of course, *wink*.

We all want to talk about Exalted here and not the ex Exalted writers who were suddenly fired for gross incompetence *wink* *wink*. Talking about fired Exalted writers is off-topic for an Exalted thread *wink*.

So, what about those wonderful new splatbooks this month? Ah, sorry, I forgot. There's none. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>52491892
Why give a fuck about Holden's tweets? Holden has nothing to do with Exalted anymore.

Am I supposed to care? Why? When he's now at the absolute height of irrelevancy to this thread.

>>52492145
>fluff back to 1E
>dead people can come back to life sorta but now they become this new Exalt type
>new Generic Exalt's running around
>whole new sections of the map added
>Not-Sidereals made by Sidereals added
>Autobot not even mentioned anymore
>back to 1E

It's further from 1E than 2E was.

>>52492252
What goalpost?

What do you want us to discuss about Holden? His tweets? How you apparently want to hatefuck him? Jesus Christ.

>>52492262
Oh, I thought you were just talking about what was in the core.

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>>52492189

As long as they don't turn them back into civilization hate retards again, things can only go up, right?

>>52492262
>Not-Sidereals made by Sidereals added

Found, apparently, not made.

>>52491947
>I'm anon and I ain't proud
words cannot begin to express the unfathomable hatred I feel for you right now.

>>52492300
I like what 3E gave of them so far, i.e. being a part of the angry have-nots that represent all the Threshold states fucked by the big Empire

>>52492314
Get a fucking twitter and bitch to Holden personally, then. Find an outlet instead of venting your anger on the rest of us.

>>52492210
It's a fluff problem. They don't really have a role or purpose the way the other exalts do.
I consider solars, lunars, sidereals, and terrestrials to be the 'main four' in a sense. They fought and wont the primordial war, they were largely responsible for the first age, and so on. Each of them has a thing they do that the others simply can't.
Solars thing is having the most raw power. They shine brighter and hotter than anyone else. They fight harder, lead better, think quicker, the whole nine yards.
Sidereals have the loom and general fate planning. Their raw upfront power might be lacking but they have completely unparalleled abilities to gather information about things without even directly having to interact with them, and to manipulate events to go the way they want. They make everything run smoother both by keeping the loom running, and making sure they are ready for whatever is coming next.
Terrestrials have the power of numbers. They aren't fixed or finite the way the celestials are. In a place as big as creation there are simply more problems that require exalted attention then there are exalts to solve those problems. Terrestrials can be everywhere at once doing everything.
Lunars don't really have anything. They can shapeshift sure, but that's just a cool mechanic, not an important part of the setting. There's nothing they can do with shapeshifting that others couldn't do equally as well with some other thing. They have no 'place' no central role. You could swap out every lunar for say more solars and lose nothing.

>>52490415
>>52491596
Speaking as the GM in question, I only edited a few Solar Charms, I edited some more Lunar Charms since PCs used them. Some were more successful edits than others in hindsight. Since all Solars were NPCs and I did their book keeping, I mostly just arbitrarily used Solar Charms from 2.0 or 2.5 and the later supplements as seemed best without really ever explaining myself to anyone.

I ended up doing a lot more work on Martial Arts so people could have some unarmed trees, and I also worked on Sidereal Martial Arts a great deal, which I allowed for Lunars who were not wyld-tainted anymore, though they didn't work as good as for Solars and Sidereals. No sutras hurt a lot and also I required they had to learn Quicksilver Hand of Dreams first, though I extensively edited it to the point the Charms are only thematically similar. I did the same thing with Prismatic Arrangement of Creation.

I will note that I came into this with a presumption of blowing up the planet and I very much do not expect that Essence 8 or 10 enemies are basically Essence 5 characters with a few Charms for obliterating extras more efficiently.

The Deathlord trees are also more specific to individual deathlords. As part of a character subquest, I allowed this person's character some access to similar Charms, but I wouldn't class them as Deathlord Charms. I designed Deathlords as Incarnae class enemies whose powers substantially weakened outside the underworld and shadowlands to about Essence 5 Celestials of middling power (which is why they have not obliterated Creation - lack of means and not wanting to make themselves vulnerable).

>>52490156
The above is part of the reason the deathlords referenced here failed. They were very dangerous, but they were concerned enough about stopping any kind of Solar return on the Solars' terms they felt compelled to come out. They of course took measures so they weren't as badly weakened, but they weren't at their best.

>>52492329
You misunderstand. I'm not angry at anything that Holden said. I'm angry at anon for posting on 4chan and/or /tg/ and being ashamed of it.

>>52492300
I don't want to see that either, so the talk about barbarians and rage kind of worries me, but the predator theme sounds like it could be cool. I'm a little apprehensive, but looking forward to seeing what Vance and co. will do with them.

But then, I'm a Lunar fan. It's not like I know what I want in the first place.

>>52492167
Ok Shyft

>>52492376
This is a shameful place, anon. No one is here because they're okay, or because they're acceptable. If a friend or a colleague saw this window open, I would cry. They'd think I'm a furry or I jerk off to anime traps or I like Nazis. I only even do the middle one but I don't want them to think any of it.

>>52492413
>But then, I'm a Lunar fan. It's not like I know what I want in the first place.

I know exactly what I want. Lunars to be walking, fluid, body horror monstrosities who can swap forms faster than you can blink.

Probably not gonna get that though.

>>52492331

Whatever the Lunar fluff is that they put out I am replacing with my own. Lunars to me will be the Exalts of chaos, adaption, and evolution. They exist to create interesting times and to not allow stagnation to destroy Creation. During the Primordial War they would adapt to whatever a Primordial would throw at them and use their own power against them. Or set up the scene so that a Solar could kill a Primordial and take all the glory.

Lunars were metaphysically paired with a Solar who will act as a means to draw out the Solar's greatness. In the First Age basically acting as either a villain or ally to the Solar to make them achieve and grow ever brighter. Either overtly or behind the scenes.

With the Solars gone they still do this but to the Realm trying to get them to change and adapt and become stronger. They won't outright hate the Realm (although individuals might) but just want it to become better and stronger. With the return of the Solars they may use Solars to this objective or challenge the Solars to become better so that they may rule. Right now many are using a barbarian strategy to both defend against the Wyld and challenge the Realm.

>>52492513
Of course you're going to get that, you asshole. This is what drives me ballistic about Lunar fans, they're fucking retarded and they fixate on these lone, isolated images they think are identies.

This

> Lunars to be walking, fluid, body horror monstrosities who can swap forms faster than you can blink.

Is like two Charms. There's probably going to be at least another 120 and NONE OF THAT is identity.

>>52491596

Unfortunately, I got told "no" to Hekatonkhire specific Charms, though he did let me upload the "general" Charms that they can all access.

See here: https://pastebin.com/9zRrPRS9

I included some brief notes on how he decided Deathlords were created as well as why they are so deranged.

>>52492508
Jesus Christ you fucking sissy.

>>52492619
>2 charms

I don't think 2 Charms is gonna cover everything from The Thing to the Wolfman to Parasyte to Mr. Fantastic to...Etc. And everything in between. Shapeshifting can and should be their thing, and I mean every kind of shapeshifting.

>>52492619
There's also Terrifying Argent Witches for if you want less Zooxalted and more Prototype meets the Guyver.

>>52492567
this is so bland. this is like dry cereal lunars. why don't you just shitcan this and wait and see what actually comes out instead of wedding yourself mentally to a huge waste of everyone's time?

"lunars have the ability to shapeshift. they try to make interesting times, just like Solars and raksha and every Exalt due to Essence fever now, with no unique role in the setting other than 'to be an Exalt.' they are either allies or not to Solars. they don't really have any driving force for conflict except 'make conflict lol' baked in. they still do the barbarian thing because it's stupid but unlike my furry fapbaits, i can't evolve."

>>52492654
>Shapeshifting can and should be their thing, and I mean every kind of shapeshifting.

Too bad anon! Lunars only get one subset of shapeshifting tropes! Animal shifting! And the current devs aren't planning on deviating from Holdemorke's vision in that regard as far as I know.

>>52492645
I'm the biggest sissy, daddy.

>>52492654
Okay, you're right. Four Charms.

Aaand done. Shapeshifting as a theme utterly complete. Now, let's do something interesting.

>>52492654
>and I mean every kind of shapeshifting.
That's kinda impossible. Like if they're shapeshifting lets them do The Thing then they are fundamentally no longer Wolfman, because the whole point of Wolfman is that he can only turn into a wolf, The Thing could turn into a wolfman just fine and then some.

>>52492508
Firstly, stop hiding your power-level.

Secondly, you have sever autism; any friends or colleagues you have already know this, and would not be surprised to know that you talk about your obscure hobbies on obscure parts of the internet.

Thirdly, the only opinion you should care about is that of people you can be entirely open with. Any other people are not worth spending time with, and their opinion/judgements are imperfect because they do not have the complete picture.

Finally, stop posting on /r9k/. No, I don't believe you when you say you don't post there. Most of the people here are okay and acceptable; just because you're a degenerate, doesn't mean all of us are also.

https://twitter.com/kongurous/status/847595949795016705
I laughed.

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>>52492774
HA! That's really something.
Does someone have a link to the thread from the 29th? I wanna see what got Holden so assblasted.

>>52492813
Just check 4plebs, but it was basically some idiot who was genuinely convinced that multiple anons were Holden.

He wasn't being sarcastic when he kept on saying Ok Holden.

>>52492813
Started on 29th http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/52425130/#52425130
The one before http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/52341016/#52341016

>>52492849
Neither of them have what Holden is referring to. It must have been a thread in between or else got deleted.

>>52492844
Tbh, not seeing it. Just jokey.

Also same for previous threads through march.

>>52492896
4plebs archives even nuked threads. And deleted posts. Including user-deleted posts which only lived for a minute, soo yeah its pretty good at catching up.

Thus it seems pretty conclusive that he's flipping his pants about the minor meme.

>>52492948
Sorry Shyft, but it happened and I found it. Starts here: http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/52409298/#52417576

So what's the head count like? Is Goodwin still on? What about Stephen or Neal?

>>52493043
SLS, at least, confirmed he will still be on tap for ideas and things to write.

>>52493043
Goodwin was gone years ago, Neall is working on Scion.

Vance and Minton are in charge now, along with SLSheppard. By all accounts pretty competent people

>>52493023
Ah okay, thread failed to have exalted in the subject.

I hope Pathfinder gets Morke for their inevitable "no guys we can do martials for real" Path of War competitor (and issues him a gag order as part of his contract) and 5E taps Holden to do fey stuff. That'd be nice.

Best wishes to TDO and Eric Minton. I know TDO from his D&D stuff and his early Exalted homebrew - excited for Infernals, 2022 is gonna be the hypest year - but where should I look to find Minton's fingerprints?

>>52493069
Guess I've missed that. I see him on the noblis quotes page, what was his story? How much was he involved and when did he get dropped?

So, what do people think about the stealth-errata from the "Ask the Devs" thread?

Specifically, the attribute buffs do not count for determining charm effects, and BGs get no charms ones, since they seem the most impactful.

>>52493323
I keep reading it but I'm constantly upset by people trying to weaken Solars because of mixed circle groups. I've also noticed some questions end up getting ignored when they should be simple answers if they really have some sort of master notes on how things works in the Exalted universe.

>>52493323
I like the attribute thing; I'm not sure that's the way it's intended to work, but it seems like it would shut down some broken combos. I'm not a fan of the ruling that supernatural battlegroups lose access to Charms, since that could cut down on their power too much. How many blood apes would a sorcerer have to summon for a group of them to be better than a single one?

It's easy enough to houserule, at least. Mostly I just want an official FAQ document so I don't have to dig up developer answers whenever something comes up in-game.

>>52493370
Solars and Lunars achieve full competence parity now, so get used to it, and Exigents can be Solar-level by design.

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>>52493535

I really wish they never did this shit. The whole point of the game is that Solars are the top tier. Everyone else is varying levels below them.

But nope, every edition has to further nerf shit. By 4E Solars will be on par with DB's, and by 5E they'll be trying to play catch up with mortals at this rate.

>>52493535
>Solars and Lunars achieve full competence parity now

I haven't really seen anything implying this to be the case, only that Lunars won't be total little bitches compared to Solars.

>>52493535
I understand that and are totally okay with whatever power level changes happen in 3E. I just wish they weren't asking them questions about shit that's so far from 3E's standard setting that its clearly going to be houseruled and instead literally ask anything else.

>>52493557
That honestly arouses me. I fucking love seeing the bullshit power-wank gutted and a real world and setting emerge from its worthless offal.

But then even in 2E I ran three great games where Solars literally were DB-tier. Spoiler alert, it worked way better than the base game once you cut out all the infinite insta-kill perfect spam bullshit and raised the target numbers for damage (for some reason it never occurred to me to nuke weapons until 2.5 did it).

My strong hope is that when DBs are released, we'll see MA-aided builds that can go toe-to-toe with non-Dawn Solars, and when we get Lunars, the Full Moon will be even more of a threat at low Essence, tapering off to rough equality at around Essence 4.

>>52493616
2.5e Lunars were as good or better than Solars who couldn't pump Agg into them in straight combat. There was that immortality Charm, and their general regen was insane.

>>52493716
>2.5e Lunars were as good or better than Solars who couldn't pump Agg into them in straight combat. There was that immortality Charm, and their general regen was insane.

Huh, Lunars got a 2.5 revision? Must have missed that.

>>52488127
is this the final version?

>>52493778
Doesn't really matter, I was talking more about in 3e. Near as I can tell Solars are still supposed to be on top but in general the gap between Exalts is expected to be narrower than it was in 2e. Which I'm fine with; when my Dawn Caste finally stomps some Lunar yiffykin's head into the dirt I want it to be at the end of a battle that fucking MEANT something.

>>52493557

Frankly, as long as no other splat gets Supernal, that's sufficient superiority for me. It justifies in-setting why they're feared, and is appropriate to their role in the primordial war. If Solars and lunars reach parity E5+, it won't be skin of my nose.

>>52493557
>The whole point of the game is that Solars are the top tier
No, that is not the whole point of the game. It has been a part of the point of the game, sure, but it has never been the whole point. 1E Core doesn't portray Solars as being leagues above other Celestials, and states that there are things Sidereals are better at than Solars. That is the original vision, the original point. Solars are powerful, they are a big deal, but more in a first among equals kind of way. Their excellence is also broader than that of Lunars and Sidereals. That is enough for the setting to make sense.

>>52493949
>but more in a first among equals kind of way

Not really. Solars aren't first among equals, they're just...first. They are the most powerful Exalted, indisputably.

However, they are indeed not supposed to be so far above the other Exalted that they're completely untouchable. But they always have that one bit of advantage in the fields they devote themselves to, that means you can never count them out.

>>52493778
No, but the paradigm shift hugely favored them - their weakpoints became less relevant and having endless reserves of regeneration, soak, and that Charm that essentially prevents you from dying until you're out-of-combat pushed them into the toppest of tiers. Despite their smaller mote-pools, they could suddenly outlast the average Solar opponent - and even in a pairing of pure killing machines, I(A)M was the only real deciding factor. Take that way and it was pretty much down to luck of the dice.

>>52494091
Hm, suddenly it becomes even less surprising why SV so dearly loves houseruled 2.5E.

>>52494075
Being ahead of others but not quite overwhelmingly so is pretty much being the first among equals. Insofar as ower tiers are a thing, Solars shouldn't be in a tier of their own, but should define the upper edge of the tier where all the Celestial Exalted are.

>>52494125
Well in that case yeah, I basically agree with you.

>>52494109
Nonsense. Lunars are not Infernals.

>>52494132
Maybe being the first among equals wasn't quite the right choice of words, admittedly. Orr ather I'd see it as an accurate description when talking about any single area of expertise, but when talking about the Solars as a whole the key word is 'first' rather than equal. Like, it isn't that Solars are overwhelmingly better than Lunars and Sidereals in any one thing, it's that they have a slight edge in a ton of things. A Dawn and a Full Moon of equal experience should be pretty close to equal, but if you view Solars as one force, with all their master warriors and master diplomats and master assassins and master sorcerers and master crafstmen and so on they are clearly superior to the other Exalted. This is something that helps explain why Solars were such a big deal back in the First Age and why they are such a big deal know, but also lets mixed parties work without individual Solars making others seem weak and insignificant.

>>52494163
SV has plenty of Lunar fans too. Keep in mind it contains the guys who wrote TAW. ...Which admittedly was basically taking Lunars from Silver Solars to Silver Infernals.

>>52493557
What >>52493535 said is not true. There isn't a single dev quote saying that Solars and Lunars have full competence parity, and a great many of them saying the opposite. If you want evidence that this is true in the corebook alone, just look at the Mastery clause of Martial Arts, or the fact that Solars get Solar Circle Sorcery and are masters at every magical material's evocations, and to top it off have larger mote pools.

As for Exigents, all the devs have said is that very powerful ones may rival Solars in some areas. Not exceed or match them.

>>52494163
But Infernals can be Lunars. Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintabulous.

God, I love Infernals. I wish Exalted was just a game about Infernals.

>>52494194
Rival means to fully match, and devs HAVE clarified that yes, you can use Exigents to build Solar-tier splats - the suggestions to limit given Exigents thematically are polite, not hardline, and the guidelines and Charm design theory the book will contain are explicitly meant to open the game up to anything you want to do with it.

And I want to drown Solars as 40 out of 251 or so Exalts functioning at their tier level, the most common but by no means a qualitative majority. Yes, this will include Gaian Dragonblooded who've slain and eaten an Elemental Dragon.

>>52494194
>and to top it off have larger mote pools.
Only at higher Essence, though. Lunars start with bigger mote pools.

>>52494194
>>52494250
the rules for exigents will allow solaroid exigents because if you want to do investigation and thrown and castle-humping you can just homebrew a god or triad of gods or primordial shard or whatever the fuck you want that gives you an exaltation that matches.

in other words, pick your favored abilities and then just craft an exaltation that'll be solaroid level in all of those. yeah the solar can learn all that plus linguistics but who gives a fuck if you're not invested in linguistics.

i like that the first edition that works mechanically has finally killed the shadow of nothing can ever be as good as these corebook faggots so if you don't like their thematics you don't get the good toys. dead and gone son

>>52494250
>and devs HAVE clarified that yes, you can use Exigents to build Solar-tier splats

Citation needed. I suspect you're taking something out of context.

> the suggestions to limit given Exigents thematically are polite, not hardline, and the guidelines and Charm design theory the book will contain are explicitly meant to open the game up to anything you want to do with it.

You can homebrew your own Cosmic Exalted right now that are each 10x the strength of a Solar, so saying that you can use the charm design theory in the Exigents to do the same thing doesn't mean anything.


Here is a real quote about the Exigents:
Short answer is that every Exigent is a different kind of Exalt so they will have varying capabilities. There are structural limitations, however. You can't make an Exigent that is as broad and as powerful as a Solar, or an Exigent of destiny and fate that is everything a Sidereal is and more. (John Morke)

Vance has said he has no plans to significantly deviate from the vision laid out by Holden and Morke

>>52494250
And I want to drown Solars as 40 out of 251 or so Exalts functioning at their tier level, the most common but by no means a qualitative majority. Yes, this will include Gaian Dragonblooded who've slain and eaten an Elemental Dragon.

Sounds completely retarded, OP.

>>52494224
>God, I love Infernals. I wish Exalted was just a game about Infernals.
Well I wouldn't go that far but I would love if there was a separate game line that focused on Infernal like PCs.

>>52494336
>You can homebrew your own Cosmic Exalted right now that are each 10x the strength of a Solar, so saying that you can use the charm design theory in the Exigents to do the same thing doesn't mean anything.

It means everything: official, widely-accepted developer support for fully homebrew Exalts that will briefly polarize the community before a majority of the resistance gives in and allows it at every table. It's phenomenal.

It's gonna be like the "feats are optional" rule of D&D 5e. like, sure, you can say no. but you're a faggot and no one will like you. and you only DM because you want to be liked.

The actual information of relevance is that there'll be an Exigent at every table, even if half of them have names like "Sidereal," "Infernal," and "Raksha."

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>>52494425
I kind of wonder if the Exigence can't be used to make bugman justice heroes.

>>52491481
>The Kickstarter should have set its end-date at 2020 and let people donate as long as they fucking want.
You mean they should make a Patreon page?

>>52489199
>good mechanics for the core
It's 2017, no system that requires as much turn-by-turn bookkeeping as Exalted 3 can be considered good.

>>52489460
Can you please post the IRC stuff?
I used yo lurk in there and I like me some good drama now and then

>>52494224
Didn't Infernal literally save 2e in the latter half of the production?
>Solar is too boring to play
>Lunar is furry
>DB is copy pasta from 1e
>Sid is copy pasta from 1e
>Abyssal who the fuck wants to play them
>Fair Folk are you kidding me
>Lost race ie Dragon King, Jadeborn and shit nobody cares

>>52494548
Sure it can. Why is it so difficult for people to undertand the difference between personal preference and objective fact?

>>52494597
You gotta admit though that a lot of shit these days takes the rules-lite route and that crunchy games are becoming more and more niche. It may be personal preference but a lot of companies are finding success appealing to that preference.

>>52494609
Sure, that is the trend of the day, but crunchy games still have their market. Not a huge market, maybe, but then does anything have a huge market when it comes to TTRPGs?

>>52494622
>but then does anything have a huge market when it comes to TTRPGs?

No, but if anything that kind of highlights how tightly pressed they are these days. They're a niche portion of an already-niche hobby.

>>52494609
>>52494622
I'd guess the current movement towards low-crunch games is due to people seeing it on Critical Role or some other web series and seeing the roleplay but not the bookkeeping.

>>52494556
>>52489460
Forget it, I found it in the archive
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/52457917/#52482904
Well what can I say?
On one hand, shitty move on RichT's part
On the other hand these two cretins and their overly inflated egos ruined OPP's relationship with Exalted fans (except the strong but small core of brownnosers) and a line that could have been a gold-laying goose
It sucks but if shit like this had to happen there's no better people for it to happen to than Holden and Morke
>>52489991
There are a lot more reasons for them to not be fired despite that. Reasons like preventing outrage from their fanboys and not wanting to restart what already was shaping up to be a mastodontic underaking for scratch.
You could argue that's a case of throwing good money/time after bad but still.

>>52494548
>I love the taste of raw wheat from the field and I don't understand who has time to bake cakes in Current Year

>>52494710
I don't get it.

Quickly, go support him, in 5 years you might even get something useful out of it.
>https://www.patreon.com/emptyset

>>52494576
>Didn't Infernal literally save 2e in the latter half of the production?
Well they do seem to be popular. And in my case they were the splat that got me interested in Exalted in the first place.

>>52494224
>Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintabulous.
Speaking of which were can I find all the various mutations and stuff? I know one of the Wyld books has some in addition to the core but are there others located anywhere else?

>>52495083
This page seems to contain all of them
big-metto.net/RP_Wiki/index.php?title=Exalted/Mutations
Though Revlid has his own homebrew mutation
docs.google.com/document/d/1zSae7JJfkkLrgrDu5sNPzNrYBQFAO7EjSaMs4OPvDXo/edit
>tfw combining Devil Tyrant Avatar with Demon Emperor to become super nuclear kaiju

>>52494757
He's saying complaining about robust systems that require more intelligence and effort to play is like complaining about the difficulty of baking a cake when you could just eat grass or whatever.

Basically he's saying he likes Exalted's complexity.

>>52492365
thats cool, solars is the thing I'd be least interested in anyway. lunars, on the otherhand, needed it. and I wouldn't mind seeing tweaked martial arts, and the deathlord stuff just sounds more like I'd want it now not less ;)

the deathlords need something like those charms. it's a setting thing, like how I'd try to find lintha rewrites.

>>52495083
You really should just use Revlid's mutations, but in addition to Wyld and Core there's a bunch in Lunars, a few in Infernals that are mostly too weird to use, a few in the Compass: West book, and a bunch in Godblooded that your ST should permanently disable you for attempting to sneak by him since they're all insanely broken for use with anything but dedicated Godblooded games.

>>52495125
>combining D-TAS and Actually Malfeas Shintai
You can't combo Form-type Charms, unless you mean Heretically, in which case anything goes.

>>52495302
>robust systems that require more intelligence and effort to play

Here we go, the retards that ascribe some intellectual value to playing Super Saiyan Achilles in a E. Howard setting.

Having to track at least 3 different values that ebb and flow round to round doesn't make this excercis particularly complex, or intellectually rewarding. It just makes it tedious.

>>52495476
>Having to track at least 3 different values that ebb and flow round to round doesn't make this excercis particularly complex, or intellectually rewarding. It just makes it tedious.
The combat isn't actually all that tedious, though. Whenever I've seen combat bego too slow, it has been because of players taking their time deciding what Charms to use. Keeping track of initiative and motes doesn't take very much time or effort.

>>52495547
>Whenever I've seen combat bego too slow
*combat go too slow

>>52494834
>some of my writing will be appearing in Onyx Path's Aeon Trinity reboot in the not-too-distant future.
Oh, the irony.

>>52494576
I would be happy if the entire line was changed to infernals and autobots....which is why the solarfanboy devs will release them dead last if at all. solar cock must be scuked

>>52495698
>I would be happy if the entire line was changed to infernals and autobots
Are you from SV?

>>52493829

No, if you go down to Resistance, you'll see that Blade Turning Body technique is missing from the text and had to be commented in.

>>52496048
I bet you think that's terribly funny.

>>52491740
>>52491655
>>52491760

Except for that steve bannon part the optimus ptime tweet is kinda awesome. Shouldve written his own name.

>>52491481
>"Oh, god, guys, it's so terrible having all these...awesome Melee Charms.

The vast majority of them are dice adders, dice rerollers or any other flavor of dice fuckers. They aren't awesome, they are just the same bulshit bloating the Charm selection ad infinitum.

But I had a right laugh at "social is for people who play real GAMERS know where the shit's at!"

The biggest contributions to whining are not the unfinished things but the stuff that's clearly finished and sucks balls anyway. Off the top of my head the fucking Doombot Charm, Wyld Shaping being unusable and Cookie Clicker Craft are the worst offenders.

This just in from rpg.net:

It seems that the gold editions, which were supposed to be numbered and signed, well, aren't.
If that was guaranteed as part of the reward for the pledge level I'm pretty sure there should be a good case to bring to KS about Rich not fulfilling his part of the deal.

>>52496518
Also, from a twitter on Holden's page, the actual book has the golden insert on a black faux-leather cover instead of white and looks like absolute garbage.

So, Holden General, how do the Dragon-Blooded aspect markings interact with disguises? Like, if a Water Aspect has eyes like deep pools of water, can he/she still somehow disguise them with a Larceny roll?

>>52496385

there are a small number of useful dice tricks at low essence (excellent strike, RSS, stark truth of steel, fire and stones strike) and the vast majority of melee charms are cool and interesting effects. i dont think you have ever actually read them, you fucking retard. hope this helps.

>>52496642
Probably wear a mask or shade

>>52496666
Yeah, whatever dude, have fun buying "This Carm does more damage IN HERETOFORE UNSEEN WAYS!" 15 times.

>>52496750
It sure would be bad if Melee had 15 similar damage-enhancing Charms. Good thing it actually doesn't.

>>52496100
>>52496048
I think it's hilarious, for what it's worth.

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>>52496955

Here's another.

Oh hey Exalted. Been a while.

When I discovered 2nd edition exalted, I blazed through a huge pile of splatbooks learning about the setting. The cosmology and concepts involved, especially relating to the primordials and their world-bodies and fractal souls were pretty fascinating, but the game mechanics looked like functionally unplayable joyless mess, dragged down further by retarded concepts like partially making your characters personality worked into the mechanics, and social rules that made for functional mind control all over the place even before bringing in actual mind control magic.

Mm, that game mechanics ramble was kinda a sidetrack from what I was actually getting at, sorry.

The broad strokes of the setting were fascinating, but there was a shit ton of fluff detailing rape monsters everywhere, and really juvenile """""mature""""" stuff worked into every crevasse of the world in general.

Also a lot of making it seem that just about anything that wasn't an exalt is irrelevant, meaning the design space detailing a vibrant world of possibility narrows down to your villains being glowy humans after your character progresses particularly far beyond generation.

I'm rambling. It's been a while since I thought about all this stuff. Basically is 3E any less of a mess?

I have to agree with various anons that the best way forward for exalted is to strip out as much of the power level wank out of the setting as possible.

Power level parity between the Celestials would actually be a good thing instead of Solaroids are the best and the only things that Lunars are good at is shapeshifting and sidereals is astrology/SMA.

Bring in power level parity and you don't have to come up with these wonky subsystems like SMA in order to avoid having elder Sidereals get curbstomped by low essence Solars simply by virtue of the Solars being the best at everything and having a massively more efficient charm list.

Oh and abandon any attempt at coming up with essence 7+ charmsets. I can tolerate essence 6 charms as a way of dealing with the narrative power of having elder exalts pull out various mega effects but honestly most of the 7+ charmset if needed should just be handwaved as NPC only narrative effects like raising a mountain out of the ocean. Useful for storytelling but doesn't really need codification.

>>52496988
>Skill Tree Generating

>>52497035

Or you could make a design space from the ground up including level 10 charms.

The problem isn't them existing, it's trying to shoehorn them in as an afterthought to an Essence 1-5 system. Same as how in D&D 3/3.5 epic levels were garbage because the design space was levels 1-20, and the epic guidelines were a lazy slapped on rules bloat shoved into territory the base system couldn't handle.

>>52497035
I'd base power (loosely) off of sorcery, where the difference between one kind of exalted and annother is 2 essence.

Like, Solar/Abyssal at Essence X = Lunar/Sidereal/Alchemical at Essence X+2 = Terestrial at Essence X+4

>>52495698

I love it when it people say this, because it makes them look fundamentally retarded. Solars are the core of the game. Your autistic rage is the same as going "Fucking fighters and wizards always getting thier cocks sucked!" about 3.5 D&D when you play some shit from the fucking Incarnum book (anyone remember that?) or something.

>>52496988
>3ECharmTree.jpg

>>52497368
>anyone remember that?
Yes, and it was the best. Don't you dare talk shit about muh Totemists, you fucking wanker.

>>52497368

The problem is they made Solars the faction with the most generic powerset, the strongest powerset and the story least tied into the setting as-is. All of which tends to inspire "Meh, I'd rather play an interesting character."

>>52497428
That's because Solar's are supposed to be Sandbox characters. "Here's a game where you're powerful enough to change the setting; we've given you a blank-slate setting for you to change as you see fit, and characters who are the strongest thing in-setting to do this."

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>>52497015
>Also a lot of making it seem that just about anything that wasn't an exalt is irrelevant, meaning the design space detailing a vibrant world of possibility narrows down to your villains being glowy humans after your character progresses particularly far beyond generation.

Thats always been Exalted. An Exalt's greatest foe is pretty much always another Exalt. This is not a game of humanity, this is closer to a superhero game in a fantasy world. Also humans don't matter even fresh out of char-gen 99% of the time, in terms of being actually useable as opponents.

3E flattens this out a bit, or tries to, but the end result is always going to be if you're not magical in some way, you're probably fucked if you're rolling up against an Exalt.

>>52497460
>Boring it's fine as long as it's for Sandbox!
Or ya know, we could have something interesting to build off of and still do Sandbox.

Infernal for Life

>>52497428

And that right there is the hallmark of an uninteresting, unimaginative person. I can tell, because every other splat does the "hard" work for you, of quantifying who you are, what you do, how you do it, and more. When you're a DB, you're either some Game of Thrones wannabe from the Realm or Lookshy, or an Outcaste. If you're a Sidereal, you're either a full on fate ninja in the fate ninja brotherhood...Or you're an Outcaste. If you're a Lunar, you're either part of the Tatoo club, or...You're useless shit because man, do non-Pact Lunars get fucked in every way possible.

Basically, it writes most of your background for you, and lets you go right along being a boring shit, whereas Solars you've gotta do everything from the ground up, because you have no central unifying theme or organization to latch on to and define your character for you other than "You're a Solar".

>>52497475

Oh I wasn't meaning that it's a problem normal humans can't be villains, I meant that Exalts seem to trample all over the other supernatural forces present short of a Yozi.

So you're kinda mostly stuck with different flavours of glowing human as your antagonists.

>>52497524
You are aware you can have the glowing humans the same personalities, flaws, and aspirations of regular humans, right?

>>52497519

>Diverse folio of character archetypes to build off, giving fertile ground to inspire base concepts to sharpen into someone interesting with ties to setting elements
>Nah man only playing the nebulous undefined concept is interesting

Lazy trolling.

>>52497481
It's not gonna be the same if you've got all the baggage of the status quo to build off of.

>>52497561
There's no reason you can't define your undefined potential, and sharpen it into something interesting. And to do so in a way that other characters haven't already.

>>52497556

Wow okay.

One more time:

>It's kinda shit villain concepts are heavily biased to augmented humans in a diverse fantasy setting because everyone else is wimpy by comparison

>Yeah it sucks you can't have human villains

>What? No I'm complaining the villains are basically just superpowered humans

>It's okay! They're basically just superpowered humans!

>>52497612
And there's no reason you can't do so with a concept other than a Solar.

>>52496750
Have you bothered to count them? There's only a handful per tree.

I guess for people who have difficulty counting, then tracking Initiative is also intimidating as hell...

>>52496385
>the fucking Doombot Charm

Go back to SV you goddamn fucking simulationist sperg

>>52497708

That handful per tree could've easily gone the way of Excellencies, rather than each getting it's own ever so slightly different but not really meaningfully different in the long run mechanic.

Solars DO have the problem of 'island' design, where they aren't as firmly connected to the setting as Dragonblooded or Sidereals. A lot of the onus is put on the players and storyteller to really flesh out who or what a Solar is.

Like- on paper you're supposed to look at your Backgrounds as this key aspect of your character, Resources aren't 'cash on hand' but estates, assets and lines of credit that in turn generate your cash-on-hand.

From a game balance/optimization/social contract perspective, Solars have the issue that the optimal backgrounds are Manse and Artifact, which are the lowest-trust backgrounds. They're the ones the ST cannot easily/accidentally fuck with because they're usually 'always on' the PC.

Dependents-in-peril is a bad GM story/meme for a reason, after all, and Exalted- any edition, has had a poor time teaching STs how to run the games it wants to actually play.

>>52497781
>slightly different but not really meaningfully different in the long run mechanic

Read the charms again, and look again how they interact with each other.

Have you noticed there's a lot of mileage in charms that let you reroll ones when faced with other charms that let you retroactively penalize the amount of ones in an opponent's dicepool, for example?

>>52497618
Okay. I think I'm seeing the issue, what's the need or infatuation with regular humans in Exalted, the most boring part of Exalted? You know you can have regular human villains in your Exalted campaign that terrorize regular people, and just stress that murdering this guy is basically slaughter because he could do nothing to really fight back and play it more like that.

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>>52497831

But you can't have slaughter without laughter, and I'll be laughing the entire time I'm gutting some shithead bandit or rapist, while people stammer "buh buh he culdn't fite baaaak yer a monster".

>>52497831

You fucking idiot.

I'm not talking about normal humans. I explicitly have never been talking about normal humans.

I am saying it's a bit crappy you can't have -interesting supernatural threats- which aren't marginalised by the fact human exalts would steamroller over them.

>>52497831
No, you're totally missing the issue. That anon wants villains that are not human AT ALL, and can actually manage to be a threat to Exalted.

What if we wanted to have a resurgence of the dragon kings' empire, sweeping across the world? We can't have that, really, because the Exalted would just curbstomp it in a matter of days, if even that. It wouldn't be challenging or fun at all.

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>>52497904

Thats where you're wrong. You can have that. You just need to make it appropriate. One of the setting elements is theres tons of spirits/gods/whatever out there, with rather undefined Charm sets and a lot of support for them having unique Charms.

What you need to do is just build up a thing like that, be it elemental, God, leftover killbeast from ages past, etc. And then use that.

>>52497904
>you can't have -interesting supernatural threats- which aren't marginalised by the fact human exalts would steamroller over them
So, let me compare this to DnD for a second (sorry, sorry, I know). In DnD, threats could come from something like a powerful necromancer (a powered up human) or from something like a dragon (a non-human supernatural threat). If I understand yo incorrectly, you are upset that Exalted only has the former and not the latter? Cause if so, don't the Raksha fit that role to a T?

>>52497909

>No, you're totally missing the issue. That anon wants villains that are not human AT ALL, and can actually manage to be a threat to Exalted.

This, and it primarily comes up because the setting is nominally very diverse and high fantasy, but leaves little room to explore stuff that isn't tied to exalted humans or Yozis.

Exaltation is designed to let humans assassinate Primordials, so anything short of that has trouble even presenting a speed bump to all but the most freshly generated starting characters.

It's not really a huge problem if you want the campaign to focus on the kinds of things it would focus on by default, but it's not great for exploring the setting in any broader detail.

>>52497901
>>52497904
>>52497909
Just make something that doesn't suffer from the "Easily Steamrolled by Exalts" flaw and you're fine. From a Storyteller's perspective, you're telling your story not theirs. If you want to make giant dildo monsters that increase mote expenditures by 50% while their in presence, then do so. No one's stopping you.

>>52497909
I see the point. I don't think it's a missed opportunity as much as a design choice. It's a White Wolf IP; even outside of the World of Darkness it's a setting based on the power fantasy of "you were an ordinary human, AND THEN...".

The Fair Folk could potentially be powerful and numerous enough to be a threat to the Exalted without being just more Exalted. I don't know much about them though, other than Graceful Wicked Masques being quite hard to read.

I think the Dragon Kings could be made effective, but you'd need to give them charms in some way that didn't make them Exalted, or else what's the point. Possibly a variant on the Yasal Crystal (and to a lesser extent the Linowan mask magic) that lets them use the charms that a spirit has access to. I'd be tempted to move them in an elemental harnessing direction; makes more sense with their pre-Yozi origins. They would literally be kings over the dragons.

Is it possible for my Solar's Lunar mate to knock her up while he's in his beast true form or DBT?

>>52498016
>>52497955
This is true. If you wanted to make the Dragon King Empire threatening... Well, first they'd have to stop being batshit insane. Then you just tweak them until they're powerful enough to threaten an Exalted party. Probably the same thing that made them stop being insane made them absurdly dangerous, so that's where you introduce [insert sapient first age artifact/yozi/raksha here]. So there's an even bigger non-human threat to deal with after.

>>52498060
Maka is that you

Severed Line Spectre
Type: Reflexive; Cost: 1 WP
Mins: Presence 4, Essence 1; Prerequisites: None

The Abyssals cut the cord long ago. Why do you persist in these attachments? The deathknight may make a single phone call regardless of whether they or the person on the other end of the call possess a phone. The message is delivered by wailing ghostly voices who repeat what the callers say. Social influence passed through this Charm may only instill spooky, scary, or skeletal intimacies.


MAKE RAND BRITTAIN LINE DEVELOPER NOW

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>>52498060

Yes. The old Lunar books covered this. Thats literally how you get beastmen.

>>52498130
Shit.

>>52498113

But what number do you ring?

>>52498060

Yes, are you in the Wyld? Does your Lunar mate have any of those beastman making charms that obviate the need to be in the Wyld?

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>>52498175

If you're lucky, you'll get cute monstergirl kids. If you're unlucky, you'll get someones fursuit abominations as kids.

Watch out bucko, you just stepped into someones magical realm, and you're probably about to learn how much of a freak the GM and/or other player are. Just remember, fire cleanses everything.

>>52498130

Beastmen were from the Lunars fucking animals while in animal form bro

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>>52498219

If you're a high enough essence Lunar you can get beastmen from anything. 2E fluff, man.

>>52497015
I'm not very experienced with 3E, but it's definitely better from what I've seen. I don't think the setting has anything as bad as the worst of 2E yet, though of course it doesn't have nearly as much material.

The system is definitely better. It still has issues - how serious depends on who you ask, but I'd say it's mostly decent to good, and possible to ignore when it isn't.

Exalted still vastly overpower mortals, but the system was designed so that passive invincibility isn't really a thing. Generally speaking, Exalted won't have better defense values or dice pools than mortals without spending essence. So all else being equal, there's no way that an elite mortal soldier or small army will beat a Dawn, but they might at least make the Dawn get a little serious, and could be a factor in a conflict between more powerful opponents.

I imagine a minor god or even mortal could make a decent antagonist under the right circumstances, as long as the situation is complicated enough and tipped enough in their favor. But I haven't really seen it in actual play.

>>52489923

>I suppose, most importantly, I want Warstriders to be fun.

So you have no idea how you want them to function.

Good to know

>>52498460
One valid complaint is that the entire crafting system is absolute shit. It takes too long to make things, not just because the projects themselves take a while, but to get THAT project, you need to do THIS project so you can get enough 'points' to qualify for the project you want to do, but to do that, you need a project to get points so you can do the project so you can get points for the actual project. It's supposed to represent you building all the parts and making special preparations, with the last project making what you wanted happen, but it just comes down to being an overcomplicated god-damn mess. A GM would be better off just throwing that system aside entirely.

>>52498597
>It's supposed to represent you building all the parts and making special preparations, with the last project making what you wanted happen
I'm fairly confident that's not how the Crafting System works. I seem to recall that you don't get to turn the perparations for a big project into smaller projects unless the results of those projects have a separate use from just being a part of the bigger whole.

>>52498722
Gotcha. So even my attempts to rationalize the stupidity of it were wrong. It just really is that incredibly fucking stupid.

>>52498597

You're supposed to handwave the rules and judiciously rules lawyer that being an armorer makes you able to make belts and stuff.

The correct answer is to be a tailor, make kids dolls, make adults cloaks, and then make your party finery, disguises, and artifacts.

>>52498797
Well, the actual answer is to make a kid's doll, then make an adult cloak, then make a Daiklaive because you were only making the dolls and cloaks to get the points you needed to make the thing you actually wanted to craft.

>>52498825
you could do what our craftsman did and build a shit ton of houses, complete with full furniture, for no one in particular. if someone wants to move into one of the houses in the town all they have to do is register and come on in.

>>52498825
The actual answer is to make a child's doll, fix a circlemates cloak, and then make a dalklaive because you suddenly had a flash of inspiration on how to design some really impressive scrollwork while making the doll, but you promised your circlemate you would repair his cloak.

>>52495698
While they're my favourite exalts, I wouldn't like that at all.

>>52498797
>>52498825
I'm supposed to? Where in the book does it say to ignore what the book tells you and to do something completely different? Are you one of those people that claim 3.pf has no issues because you can homebrew all the bad things away?

The crafting system being shitty, nonsensical crap is a valid complaint about the system, and the other anon wanted to know about things like that, so I mentioned it. I know no one in their right mind would ever actually use those rules in favor of their own homebrew, but it doesn't change the fact that it's in there and anon wanted to know about it.

>>52498060
>>52498130
>>52498218
>>52498219

>Making beastmen with your Solar mate

Solar Essence infused Beastmen? Those would be like SUPER Anathema or something, I'm surprised there isn't any cannon examples, like a Seneschal aligned Lunar submitting a project for the Thousand Streams that just says "Fuck you, I'm making SUN FURRIES"

>>52494609
Pathfinder is still one of the most popular rpg's there is and it's no where near low crunch.

>>52498825
>>52498899

Minton and theotherone are now explaining their house rules.

>>52493370
solars NEEDED it. they were hella boring op

>>52499043
Where? Is it a stream or a podcast?

>>52499069

now they're hella boring nerfed because nobody figured out a narrative niche that allows for cool shit like Moon and Earth Blessing or Pomegranates Full and Fine

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>>52498954

Probably because for the past (insert years here) there were only like, 10 Solars in all of Creation, and at least 3 or 4 of those are shit like that craftsman who is out in the Wyld who literally has no idea the Ursupation even happened because he's been busy in his lab, or that 100-200 year old insane wanker playing jolly jerkoff with himself in those ruins. The rest spent most of their time getting gangbanged by Wyld Hunts because they literally had nothing better to do for the past (insert years here).

>>52499193
I was going to ask if you were being facetious, but then I remembered that this is exalted. They were probably literally seducing entire Wyld Hunts for shits and giggles.

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>>52499239

I didn't mean in the sexual sense, I did mean in the "they're playing ping-pong with the Solar with grand goremauls" because all Solar NPC's are always incompetant fucks despite fresh out of chargen Solars built correctly being basically immune to DB's for 2 editions now.

>>52499334
Oh, pronoun confusion. I thought the 'they' referred to the Solar, not the hunters.

And yea, I never got that. These Solars are old enough to remember the first age and they're still getting beaten down by a bunch of measly Dragon-blooded?

Or are these Solars that somehow didn't get their exaltations sealed in the Jade Prison?

>>52499380
These are the Solars who didn't get stuck in the Jade prison.

Also, remember that if there is an actual solar found, in all likelyhood a Sid would be sent out with the hunt as backup, and while Solars can mop the floor with DBs, a bunch of DBs and a half competent Sid is another story.

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>>52499380

Theres at least one that never got sealed or killed in the Ursupation, but it's literally because he was just working in his lab out in the Wyld, and never even knew it was going on. He's still working in his lab.

The rest are just ones that never got imprisoned.

>>52499408

There probably aren't enough Sids to spare for one to accompany every hunt. They're always portrayed as having way too much to do, despite also always being portrayed as having enough time to meddle in fucking everything. I mean, one of them was a teacher for Mnemon pre-Exaltion for fucks sake. What kind of Sid would have the time to teach some jerkoff's non-Exalted kid who no one would think would Exalt anyway?

>>52499450
That's why I said that if there is an actual solar found, as in "The Pattern Spiders detect solar activity here, here, and here in the next week."

>>52494425

You're conflating 'full support for homebrew Exalts' with 'full support for MY homebrew Exalt who is everything a Solar is and more'

Homebrew Exigents will be of wildly varying quality, and STs will just...decide which ones they want to include.

>>52499450
>Theres at least one that never got sealed or killed in the Ursupation, but it's literally because he was just working in his lab out in the Wyld, and never even knew it was going on. He's still working in his lab.

Isn't there also the one that got stuck in Nowhere?

>What kind of Sid would have the time to teach some jerkoff's non-Exalted kid who no one would think would Exalt anyway?

Because, being a Sidereal, he knew something that house Mnemon didn't, probably. Like that she'd Exalt.

>>52495698
Yeah no shit you would you stupid fucking infernal fan.

>>52499528
>Because, being a Sidereal, he knew something that house Mnemon didn't, probably. Like that she'd Exalt.

Actually, not even he knew she'd Exalt. Part of the story was a whole back and forth between him telling Chejop she was a shitter with no potential and a spoiled brat to boot.

She also somehow ended up breaking his arm when she Exalted.

>>52498593

It doesn't help that I didn't know how they worked in 2e despite having read the rules.

>>52499554
Mnemon stronk

>>52499562

Yes, but saying you want them 'fun' tells me nothing. It's a toxic mentality that I'd like to see scrubbed from games of all sorts.

>>52499091
these charms sound sexual to me, and with the silly names i can never remember what they actually do

>>52498954
1 halfcastes are retarded
2 halfcastes never pass anything on, so you can't breed a race of them, gotta do it one by one.

>>52498597
I think the idea was the previous projects were making /components/ for the final one...it just didn't come across

>>52499660
No, I was corrected by another anon, see >>52498722

>>52497035
Well, good thing that Solars aren't in their own separate tier of power in 3e, although they still are the strongest.

And SMAs will be essence 5 max, and there will be no essence 7+ charmsets to replace all your low essence charms. Seems like 3e is the best edition for you.

>>52499616

They're the Lunar and Abyssal survival Charms, and they have mildly cool side effects. The Lunar one has a tell for enhanced lands, and the Abyssal one makes people who eat your ghost food into Creatures of Darkness if they eat for too long.

>>52497144
Neat in theory, but how do you actually make that work in practice?

>>52497683
But also no reason you can't do it WITH a Solar.

>>52497428
The Solar charmset isn't 'generic' at all. Its a blast to play as a Solar because they have tight thematics but you can still think of dozens of different character concepts for them. And their story is extremely tied into the setting.

>>52499766
>And their story is extremely tied into the setting.

Individual Solars however don't come with any particular ties to the setting that you don't create yourself.

>>52497519
There IS a central unifying theme to the Solar Exalted. You're the heroes of the dawn, the return of magic to the world, you struggle with an ancient curse, you're the chosen of the Sun, the most powerful God in the setting, and all he represents: excellence, virtue, glory, power. magnanimity

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https://ericminton.wordpress.com/2015/10/29/exalted-3e-sample-basic-projects/
https://ericminton.wordpress.com/2015/10/27/exalted-3e-the-basicmajor-project-divide/

>>52499810
That is the same as anyone else unless you're playing a canon character. Its fairly easy to think about how the world reacts to you and where you came from as a Solar, because they're so heavily tied in to the setting. That is a different thing from having some weird organization like the Solar Pact for a backstory.

>>52499860
Did the DB book get kickstarted already?

How big are war striders? Titanfall titans? Gundams? Megazord?

>>52499820

What I meant was there is no unifying theme insofar as everyone else has something besides "Being an Exalt" as a theme. Like DB's. If you're a Realm DB, you're a politician, a prince of the earth, etc etc. Whether you want to be that or not, if you're a Realm DB, it is part of you.

Solars are whoever they are. They make themselves whatever they are.

>>52499936

Escaflowne's.

>>52499915
>That is the same as anyone else unless you're playing a canon character

Not so. Say you make a Dragon-Blooded Dynast. Before you've defined anything else about that character you already know that he or she is going to be affected by and in some way tied to that whole web of bullshit swarming about the Scarlet Empire now.

Now unlike those other guys I'm not saying this is a bad thing that Solars lack this. I'm fine with actually having to decide on and establish those ties myself when playing them.

>>52499920
Not up yet.

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>>52499752

So Lore requires you to take a specialty denoting your area of expertise if you have Lore 3+. What are some examples of Lore specialties have you guys seen?

>>52500049
Waste management or something
The pc was the shit-king of nexus

>>52500049
History, Archaeology, specific cultures, etc...

>>52500102
>>52500105

Would engineering be valid for someone looking towards magitech and siege engines?

>>52500176
I'd allow it.

>>52495318
>emon Emperor to bec
can it even be a heretical if it's both from the same yozi?

>>52494181
I'd like to see something similar to why humans rule fantasy settings. elves have the magic, dwarves have the tech/artificers, orcs have the numbers, etc...but humans *can* have any or all of those things even though they don't have any one advantage built in from the start. an field you'd name a top 8 in has at least one human up there. so even though sids are the best martial artists there is a solar who can equal their masters because solars are broad

>>52497524
That was because in the old games gods elementals and demons all shared a shity charmset, and ghosts and fair folk both had their own shitty charmsets. In theory this edition changes that by giving all of those non shitty charmsets.

>>52500508
Honestly though if you didn't have access to a paranoia combo in 2e you were useless in combat which made even high essence gods roadkill.

2.5 improved that some but the underlying issues are still there.

But that is also part of the old power level bs where an essence 5 solar circle was supposedly equal to an incarna or primordial.

So is a Wyld Hunt actually dangerous to a starting Solar in this edition?

>>52500637
Yes

>>52500637
Yes definitely.

Even excluding senior immaculate monks and senior legion officers moderately experienced DBs should present a significant challenge especially if they are supported by a decent number of elite soldiers.

The saving grace for new Solars is that the shattering of the jade prison means that sidereals struggle to track new solars now and it can be months before a wyld hunt is established and even then they are unlikely ti pursue anathema deep into the threshold.

>>52501146
Also exactly what constitutes a Wyld Hunt has been expanded. A Wyld Hunt can be the traditional Realm assembly of elite mortal soldiers gathered underneath an Immaculate sworn brotherhood...or it could be a couple dozen mortal legbreakers employed to assist a pair of outcastes cheesed off about you muscling into their business.

>>52500583
>But that is also part of the old power level bs where an essence 5 solar circle was supposedly equal to an incarna or primordial

In 1E a single E5 Solar was supposed to be a match for the US in a wrasslin' contest.

Man, Exalted has fallen far. From an interesting game about being a God-like being who can hold their own with similar, to...Mid tier D&D rejects with anime swords.

>>52501256
>Also exactly what constitutes a Wyld Hunt has been expanded. A Wyld Hunt can be the traditional Realm assembly of elite mortal soldiers gathered underneath an Immaculate sworn brotherhood...or it could be a couple dozen mortal legbreakers employed to assist a pair of outcastes cheesed off about you muscling into their business.

It's always been that. The Wyld Hunt in previous editions used to be a bunch of higher trained and equipped killer monks with Sid backing, and basically got stripped and defunded. Now you can get the same group of killer monks with Sid backing going after some newbie Exalt, while two schmucks without a braincell between them and a rusty dagger have to deal with Grand Master Cocktimus Ramslaughter, Lord of Blades.

>>52501350
What? I thought it was a Circle of Essence 5 Solars was capable of dealing with anything thrown against them.

>>52501350
That's still the benchmark Exalted uses. Somebody who's reached the end of the Feat of Strength tree is as strong as the Unconquered Sun himself, or only very slightly less. If you think Essence 5 solars aren't extremely powerful in 3e than you haven't seen high essence play. Maybe actually look at the fucking game before you shittalk it.

>>52501421

It was.

He's just bullshitting or misinformed.

>>52501396
Really? I don't recall the outcaste-only version in previous editions.

Another thing that's new is that Lookshy practices the Wyld Hunt explicitly, so you're not totally safe even in the ScavLands.

>>52499743
Charm design. Celestial Exalted would have charms that required Essence 1-5, but an Essence 5 Celestial charm would only do as much as an Essence 3 Solar charm. This would not always be a 1-for-1 translation; some Celestial charms would go away from the 3=5 formula.
For Terestrials, it would be a little tricky. It wouldn't work as well to have their Essence 5 charms equal Essence 1 Solar charms, so I would instead give them the same power-level as Celestials for their charms, but nerf them in a different way, such as by not giving them Supernals (or their equivalent), or making them buy their excellencies.

Alternatively, you could go the other way around, with Celestials having solar-tier charms but lacking something major that Solar take for granted, while Terrestrials have Celestial X charms at Essence X-2.

The best-case scenario would probably be somewhere in the middle. Celestials would be one Essence weaker than Solars and lacking something that Solars have, and Terestrials would be one Essence weaker that Celestials, and lacking something that Celestials have.

>>52501512

That isn't new either, Lookshy did it's own Wyld Hunts in previous editions too.

>>52501446

Nah, I've been playing since day 1 of 1E. You just think I'm bullshitting obviously, because you either don't remember, or never saw the old dev comments.

>>52501515
The problem here is with asymmetric charm design, figuring out a 'base' of what each essence level does is really hard, but if you make each essence level have the same generic effects you make each Exalted bland.

So what are the odds of arms having not shit art for the weapons this time around?

>>52501681
Solars and all Exalted are really strong in this edition. Its just that everything was lowered from the perfect defense/I(A)M paradigm

>>52501681
>That isn't new either, Lookshy did it's own Wyld Hunts in previous editions too.

Lookshy never did Wyld Hunts. In 1e it was hostile to Anathema, but it never actually organized hunts to go after them because it didn't really have the time what with keeping the Realm from running over the Scavenger Lands. And in 2e it was downright neutral towards Anathema, which made no damn sense.

>>52501681

You mean one of Grabrowski's comments when he said that people could overthrow a mortal kingdom to become a major regional warlord to beat up sol himself as valid game types for a perfect circle of solars?

Yes, I agree. I believe it is you who are viewing through rose tinted glasses.

>>52501684
Finding the base is easy; the base is arbitrary. The real work is making sure that growth is consistent from one Essence level to the next. This is difficult, but not terribly so.

>>52501693
I'd say pretty good. There was a tad of a rush to get the art even in there from what I remember, and the art from miracles was amazing. Hopefully they get someone good to get fancy shamcny shiny weapon pictures.

>>52499450
>Theres at least one that never got sealed or killed in the Ursupation, but it's literally because he was just working in his lab out in the Wyld, and never even knew it was going on. He's still working in his lab.

Do you know where it said that? I don't remember that at all.

>>52499717
>And SMAs will be essence 5 max

How will Sidereal compete with Exalted throwing down Essence 6+ charms then?

>>52501736
It never had official Wyld Hunts, but if Solars started jerking around in their territory, Lookshy would send its soldiers after them. While the Realm's Wyld Hunt was more of a religious thing, Lookshy's was more a military thing.

>>52502045

What Essence 6+ charms?

>>52502092
The difference is really that now it's full-on official, and it actually calls them Wyld Hunts.

>>52502092
2e Lookshy was shit because the reality is that DBs in the threshold also tend to follow the immaculate religious beliefs it's just the ones in Lookshy reject the Empress as the rightful head of state.

>>52497812
That's missing the point that that could still just be listed as an Excellency, maybe with a "may only be purchased for this set of Abilities" clause, rather than slightly different versions of the same effect being listed in a bunch of places.

>>52497995
Weird fae beasts, which the 3e setting tweaks opened up to be more unique and powerful than normal raksha, can absolutely fit that role.

>>52502688
The issue is that when Exalted move up from the early game, most of those beasts become a non-issue as well. Behemoths can still challenge, but do you really want every encounter to be a Behemoth?

Also, what makes Wyld Shaping Technique unusable? It was mentioned earlier.

>>52502688
Raksha can also work fairly well. Just give them the same personality of WoD Gentry and suddenly they become terrifying.

>>52502927
It's best to ignore like 99% of the old fae folk mechanics of course. Graceful wicked masques is fun to read and play with but it's largely useless for most exalted games.

>>52499960

Guymelefs

>Make Solar powerful
>Woah other splats don't matter just play Solar!
>Nerf Solar
>Woah how I am supposed to not get murdered by the Wyld Hunt early in the game?
>Nerf DB
>I fucking hate you for making DB weak!
How do we solve this problem?

>>52503624
>Nerf Solar
>Woah how I am supposed to not get murdered by the Wyld Hunt early in the game?
I think the problem's there, and the solution is "git gud".

>>52503624
>Woah how I am supposed to not get murdered by the Wyld Hunt early in the game?
There is no problem here. Not being murdered while you're still getting established should be hard.

>>52503624
It's not really that hard to avoid tripping a full-blown Realm Wyld Hunt, unless you're literally going gold on the Blessed Isle or in a deeply loyal satrapy.

>>52502125
The ones that exist?

At the very least we saw Essence 6+ repurchases of Charms in the 3rd edition corebook. Searing Sunfire Interdiction's Essence 6+ upgrades are pretty badass.

>>52503742
Actually its pretty hard, assuming you aren't constantly moving. Literally any bronze faction sid can go find the solars strand in the loom of fate and know his exact position, as well as where hes going to be with a relative amount of accuracy.

>>52503848
>Literally any bronze faction sid can go find the solars strand in the loom of fate and know his exact position, as well as where hes going to be with a relative amount of accuracy.

I assume there's a reason they generally don't just drop in on any old Solar as soon as they can, though.

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>>52503624
It's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with the players. Everyone wants to be a special snowflake and be at the top of the totem pole, and run mixed groups where everyone is as useful as the next. Which Exalted was not meant to do, or be, in any capacity. It was not meant to be balanced, and the other Exalts were always supposed to be a steady jog behind the Solars. Less so for other Celestials, who were supposed to be comperable to Solars, especially in their special gimmick areas.

These people are the cause of all of this with their whining. Thats why the game has been slowly reduced in power. See all of the people in the thread going "But how do I challenge the _____?". They don't really think about their options, and unfortunately, this leads to the lessening power scale in Exalted.

>>52503869
Too many Solars now, too much other shit to be doing keeping Creation from spiraling into the shitter, and the Gold Faction can get in the way of Bronze kill squads doing their duty.

You do have a fair amount of room to breathe as a starting Solar, but it's just enough rope that if you do stupid shit you can still hang yourself with it.

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>>52503869

They used to, back when they could leisurely pick off the 10 or so Solars still in Creation. Imagine you're a security who has to monitor 10 screens at once. Not so hard, you can do your job if you pay attention. The rest of the guards are doing their rounds, and can respond easily enough.

Now theres 150-ish screens. And you're still just the one guy. And the other guards are tossing dice in an alleyway or jerkin' off behind the dumpster out back. Now you've got a real fuckin' problem on your hands. Thats what the Sidereal are going through, with the Solar's return and the Dragonblooded playing grabass with each other because the Empress fucked off to (insert reason here, canon is to be a cocksleeve of the Ebon Dragon).

I'm probably not in the least bit original or bringing anything new to the table but it always seemed to me like Exalted always suffered from a rather severe identity crisis on what it was trying to be and no writer or fan ever managed to agree on what the game was supposed to be like. I'm not trying to diss the 'kitchen sink' but even then it seemed like Exalted never had a clue about what it wanted to be. I'm sure there are groups who settled on one style over the other and had fun but...

If you are willing to further indulge this long, barely coherent a bit more, here's what I mean. These are the various things Exalted has tried to be over its existence, some not mutually exclusive.:
>Exalted is Fantasy not inspired by the usual 'elf, dwarf and wizards' cliche but rather from the older, more pulp roots as well as mythology.
>Exalted is the above mixed with 'anime' (as if anime is a genre). This one is being phased out more and more in 3rd ed.
>Exalted is a game where you play mythical hero of great power. Rendered moot by the fact there are Essence 6 NPC who can buttfuck you and the sheer focus given on cosmic beings like Yozi.
>Exalted is about mythical heroes who can change the world. See the above point on why this doesn't work.
>"You know what? Screw heroism, everyone is evil and everything sucks!" White Wolf declared, returning to their old roots
>Forget character-drive motivations, its really all about cosmic battles and shit like the Reclamation and those weird cosmic things like the Shintai and the metaphysics of reality, thus making the pulp and mythology-inspired hero deal irrelevant
>No wait, its about high fantasy transhumanism where Essence is like a science, as per Clarke's Third Law, so forget the mythological inspiration!

>>52504211

A lot of what you're talking about came about with 2E's fluff, which was an unabashed clusterfuck with the occasional good idea. This came about due to literally no one trying to keep the writing consistent, or the lore consistent.

That said, 2E had some good ideas. It was just buried under mounds of shit. 1E was somewhat the opposite, great ideas, but really underdeveloped in a lot of cases.

3E just threw everything the fuck out and went "Fuck it, we're playing someones homebrew now". As evidenced by the sudden additions of 3 new Exalt types that read like someones bong driven "great idea".

>>52504292
>As evidenced by the sudden additions of 3 new Exalt types that read like someones bong driven "great idea".
I like the Exigents as a concept, at the very least but I don't know how much in the minority I am for this.

>>52504211
>This one is being phased out more and more in 3rd ed.

Funny because now we have straight up anime moves right in the core. And now weapons are turning into "My super secret sword has a special art of WHICH ONLY I COULD HAVE MASTERED TEN THOUSAND CUTTING FLOWERS OF EXPLODING TRIPLE DEATH BLOSSOMING SLASH".

Not that thats a bad thing. I love that shit. And Exalted has always unabashedly ripped off anime and Japanese videogames for shit. I just wish we were going more towards Dynasty Warriors again.

>>52504211

>E6 NPCs

Even the ancient Epics had stories of competing against and interacting with various gods. Orpheus moved hades to tears with his Lyre playing.

The Primordials are gone, banished to Hell. The strongest thing now are the Deathlords and 3CDs, and even they have limit.

>Evil

World is turning to shit, help set it right.

>Reclamation

Shit canned. Everyone hated the Infernal Preview.

>Essence is science

Shit canned. Magitech is being dialed way bak and emphasis is being put on the magical nature of artefacts.

>>52504362
Those are more elements anime took from Wuxia, really. I mean that the visual style of EX3 seemed rather more toned down and muted from the unashamedly 'bad anime drawings' of first edition.