/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>52461913
Are v20 and mage worth shelling out 300 bucks each to re-seller assholes? I hate pdfs and prefer having physical copies of all my books. Is there a huge difference between editions really?

>>52461913
No idea about wod but in CofD I do like Wicked Dead and Immortal Sinners

>>52461948

I just said WoD, but I really meant everything released, not just oWoD.

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Anyone have this image without the text, in this resolution?

Is there any way to use necromancy offensively? I don't think ghosts can actually harm material beings beyond throwing pots and pans at them, the bone path requires lots of corpses and thus isn't useful save defensively (and even then zombies sorta suck), and none of the powers are, well, dangerous to living beings. Hell, most of them aren't even dangerous to ghosts. Hell, more powers have a note about being dangerous to the user than are dangerous to other!

I mean, a Ventrue can at least dominate mortals into fighting for him, same with Toreador for presence- but a necromancer seems basically a sitting duck if fought.

How does a necromamcer stay alive when shit hits the wall?

I mean the vampiric discipline- I really like it and want o explore it heavily- but I'm gonna have piss physical stats and no other disciplines to get real use out of it- so I need a way to keep myself alive if trouble comes- and unlike most other disciplines, necromancy doesn't seem to offer any way to protect myself.

Also would like to know how much ghosts can interact with the world- the book is unclear- can they use "disciplines" (as described in the other supernatural bit) normally and just not touch stuff, or not? Because if they can, summoning ghosts is hilariously dangerous for the necromancer until you've got a ton of xp invested.

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>>52461928
Pls be real.

I have a bridge to sell you.

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>>52462035
>Death arcana

Have your character buy a gun and keep it in your waistband.

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What kind of fae lord is the Crimson King? Who's his moonchild?

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>>52462035
Zombie.

Street.


Sharks.

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>>52462035
>I have no way to defend myself when a qt Thrysus shows up

You're goddamn right.

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>>52462035
>How does a necromamcer stay alive when shit hits the wall?

>necromamcer
>necromam
>mam

If you can't raise meat dragons and control wraiths, what's the point of being a necromancer?

Some game concepts don't translate well.

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>>52461913
This game always had terrible art. I thought fags were supposed to be good at art, DaveB. Competing with 3.5 DnD artists didn't go well for you.

>>52462064
>>52462127
Vampire, not mage. If a mage comes for me, I'm fucked no matter what I do.

>>52462153
If I can find enough hengeyokai, maybe. As it is, I'm thinking of using the craft skill to add murder-prosthetics, but that only adds so much benefit. Especially since I can't really take zombies with me outside the lair. And even then- huge masquerade risk.

>>52462112
It's still an interesting discipline, but yeah.

Is Patrick Bateman a Malkavian or a Ventrue?

>>52462364
Neither, he's a human.
Enough with this retarded "let's jam another fictional character into ill fitting categories from another universe" bullshit.

>>52462377
Why not? You seem unnecessarily pissy about a subject that doesn't really affect you one way or another.

>>52462216
>If a mage comes for me, I'm fucked no matter what I do.

Why antagonize them? The Awakened can make for amazing allies when the Kindred are involved. I would imagine that even the Prince would be tempted to hire the loner neckbeard Moros living down the street.

>>52462447
Not the OP but IMHO bringing other splat allies when you are in the spotlight like vampire prince or leader of the changeling court are can bring a lot of trouble on your head.

>Oh fuck he is bulking up we need to take him down before he can consolidate.
Would be reaction of every enemy that said leader could have

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>>52462176

DaveB had nothing to do with the 1e art (and there's worse than that).

And, while the art in 2e is certainly much better overall, there's still a few odd or inexplicable pieces. My "favorite" is the Batman rogue's gallery for the Adamantine Arrow art.

>We will kill The Batman

>>52462447
>The Awakened can make for amazing allies when the Kindred are involved.

Everyone needs a Obrimos buddy.

>>52462447
I rather like the idea of a mage acting as aide-de-camp to a select Prince, essentially a court sorcerer of the truest kind. Someone who is knowledgeable and willing to spare counsel.

The Prince could also send the mage on personal errands, such as eliminating threats and rivals, or handing out discipline to insolent subordinates.

Yeah, a mage can be an amazing 'dragon' in any Requiem Chronicle.

>http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon

>>52462573

What is the vampire offering the mage for him to be willing to tolerate being his errand boy and muscle. He'd be the laughing stock if the entire Convocation.

>>52461913
>Which WoD book has the best artwork?

W20 core & Mage the awakening 1.

>>52462610
I would imagine something to do with either Obsessions or Mysteries.

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>>52462556
I think we can all agree that the Seers have the best artwork when it comes to the Orders.

>>52462672

>Eyes Wide Shut

>Tom Cruise serves the Paternoster

>Scientologists are a Seer cult

Ok, you scumbags, I'm sick of changeling. It's such gay, otherkin, pretentious, special snowflake Tumblr pandering bullshit and has no value to it whatsoever. White wolf should give this the axe.

Mage is also fucking lame because it's all about woke people trying to win against the euphoric neckbeards and it's just absurd.

The fact that these all find their way into the 2goth5me vampire world and bog it down with a their shit rules is a shame to an otherwise OK line. And then you have werewolf being some soap box for lefty white vegan shit is also annoying. Muh land. Muh wyrm. Muh nature. Muh noble savage trope.

Like, vampire is the only thing they've ever done right. I don't get why any of you get so hot over the other bullshit.

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>>52463193
>vampire is the only thing they've ever done right

Boy, sit the fuck down.

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>>52463193

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>>52463193
Only fat goth cucks play Masquerade / Requiem

kek

>>52463193
Wraith is the greatest thing they've ever made despite being effectively unplayable.

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This system is neat. Still get rekt by werewolves.

>>52463247
>Mage is the greatest thing they've ever made despite being effectively unplayable.

Fixed that for you, my good anon.

>>52463222
>>52463235
>>52463238
Look, guys, white wolf was OK in their day. Their edgy, pretentious, and tacky days of the 90's where you could get away with this kind of bullshit. But it's time that they hang it all up.

It's dated and juvenile. If they didn't make vampire some dumb urban Machiavelli in angsty goth kid clothes simulator. They can still salvage it. And that's fine. But this brand isn't going anywhere.

Their Kickstarters were scams and failures and I think that says for itself, this company is in their dying throes and not wanting to admit it.

>>52463284
Mage is overrated.

Wraith has the most fleshed out setting possible.

>>52463298
Wraith is overrated.

Mage has the most fleshed out setting possible.

>>52463308
I wish /tg/ was good.

Also exalted is like a gay attempt at making a tabletop dynasty warriors and god of war crossover. Fucking awful.

And does anybody remember Engel? Another blunder of a game .

Onyx path has a track record of blunder after blunder with maybe one or two successes followed by twenty blunders.

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Also, does anyone know the name of the font used in this picture? I want to make more WoD general related images and I like this font.

Both Mage games are flat-out better than everything else.

>>52463410
Yeah if you're a powergaming cuck into pseudo mystic bullshit.

>>52463238
What a magnificent, Rubenesque beauty. I would be her slave for the mere privilege of licking the blood off her perfect fingers, face, or - dare I dream of it? - decolletage.

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>>52463410
you got some nice dots there, it'd be a shame if someone were to, oh, you know, STEAL THEM AND HAND THEM OUT LIKE SPIRIT GIFT TO A PACK OF WEREWOLVES.

>>52462176
>PEPE
Hmmm...

>>52462364
He's a slasher, senpai.

>>52463858
no, he's a fishmalk who likes to pretend he's a slasher but it's all in his head.

What kind of acts would a Cainite have to do in order to facilitate raising his rank in Path of Humanity? There are lots of example in the book on how it may be lowered due to degeneration and such, but no raw examples of the opposite. Is it simply trying to be a nice guy? Would a buddhist vampire, let's say, have an easy time raising his Humanity?

And what of mechanical things? Where does the Storyteller say "you achieved this task, and as such your Humanity grows one level", would it require some form or roll, or does this remain purely narrative?

I am new to GMing Masquerade, only having played it somewhat before.

Do vampires know when they're about to go into torpor, or do they just go to sleep one day then wake up 6 centuries later?

>>52463881
He goes out in the sunlight you mong.

Now, he could feasibly be a fomori.

>>52464273
It's relative to your current Humanity.

A guy who drains and drops consistently falls down to like 4 Humanity, but past that he has to do something substantially vile to drop it even further. You'd have to become an extremely sadistic serial killer to drop further.

Likewise, a vampire that only kills in self-defense and is generally as nice as a parasite can be can rise to about 7, but any higher requires increasingly ridiculous acts of good. Saving a child from a burning building for no reason other than saving a life might bump you to 8, for example.

>>52464283
Some of them can do it on purpose, so I imagine there's some degree of control, but most of the time it's involuntary.

>>52464362
So it's really just about character development and decisions up to the Storyteller? I'm not surprised that there are no rolls involved, though.

>>52464362
He can probably go out in the sunlight because he's a loser thinblood.

>>52464397
There can and often are rolls depending on the situation.

Like if you're Humanity 6 and frenzy causes you to eviscerate a bunch of kine, you might need to roll to see if your character is able to fit it into their personal morality. This is why natures are helpful.

>>52464430
I understand the losing of Humanity, I was more refering to raising it specifically.

When do I get to do cool vampire shit?

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Is there a stupider curse than the Lasombra one? Not only is it not that bad, it can actually be used for your benefit (won't show up on cameras, Libellus Sanguinus has the example of a Lasombra using mirror halls to disorient his pursuers), and according to the novels can be bypassed by a simple charm.

This becomes even more obvious if you compare it to the other curses

>>52464440
in a game of VtM or VtR? Preferably in person or over discord/Ghangouts? though I thought the first part would have been a given...

>>52464440
If you want to do cool vampire shit out of the gate, pick a clan where backgrounds aren't that important and pump your disciplines. Gangrel are good for this, if you want you can have Protean 5 and turn into mist from your first session.

>>52464458
Pretty sure Lasombra actually DO appear on modern cameras. The reason vampires don't show up in mirrors or old cameras is because silver is used to make them.

It's actually psychologically debilitating for a clan that prides itself on being superior and being embroiled in social situations. There's a reason they torture ghouls tasked with their personal appearance if they don't do a good enough job.

>>52464440
>He plays vampire thinking he'll get to do "cool vampire shit"

Ahahahaha. Yeah, good one.

>>52464506
According to clanbook: lasombra, they don't; they appear as a shaded blur. Also the curse doesn't extend only to mirrors or old cameras; any and all reflective surfaces don't show their image.

If it's really that psychologically debilitating either get a charm like Marcus Vittel did or just have someone draw you.

And psychological discomfort is nothing compared to being ultra sensitive to light or being forced to feed only on a select group

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>>52464550
>just have someone draw you.
then you get a farce like What We Do in the Shadows

>>52464273
Losing a point is rationalizing violations of that tier until it stops occurring to you to feel bad about it. The opposite is holding yourself to the standards of the next level up and spending the experience to make yourself believe it.

Is there any downloadable material for Changeling 2e? I couldn't find any on Google and I don't think there's any in the pastebin links.

>>52464581
Just get one of those realistic meme artists to draw you

>>52464550
Should've known it has more to do with being creatures of shadow than basic vampire lore.

>or just have someone draw you.

The more affluent (so most of them) do exactly that. It's gauche to get a portrait done more than once a year but some people can't handle that.

>And psychological discomfort is nothing compared to being ultra sensitive to light or being forced to feed only on a select group

I guess the Lasombra's real weakness is their enormous egos and obsession with being cartoon villains.

Honestly the Nosferatu curse is sort of a non-issue, since unlike most other curses (which could pop at any time and could be overlooked by people making their character, like a Gangrel's frenzy weakness or a Toreador's Stendhal syndrome), you know full well that you're going to play a character who will actively avoid mortal detection and so you design your character accordingly.

>>52464620
Also, does any have a copy of Demon Translation Guide?

>>52462112
Already did that one, check a few threads back

>>52463347
Its a PhotoShop overlay take it to the photoshop board

>>52464742

>photoshop board

Would that be /gd/ then?

>>52464506
>if you want you can have Protean 5 and turn into mist from your first session.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I understood the rules you can't have disciplines above 3 dots at character creation

>>52465008

You buy it with freebie points after dot allocation

>>52464682
send space . com / file / tmbroo
if it doesn't work: remove the spaces, ya dingus

Which is more fun for new people and normie goth bitches to play if I'm the st? Requiem or Masquerade?

>>52462386
Its boring an uncreative.

>>52463285
The only two games that got played in the 90s got their 20th anniversary book and thats what matters

>>52465285
Wrong question. What stories do normies want to explore? Take ques from the novels, flims and tv shows they watch.

Requiem is pretty simple to pick up and just play along as you have a story to tell

>>52463333
Poison is the only solution for making /tg/ mage-player filled threads good.

>>52464620
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/changeling-the-lost/676949-collected-second-edition-open-development-blogs

>>52461928
No, not at all.

>>52462556
Jacked shy guy is amazing.

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>>52465986
You mean Buff ViVi

>>52466059
What about male pattern baldness pharaoh standing right next to him?

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Well I didn't see this in the thread anywhere, so I guess I should post it. Apparently White Wolf is offering a sanctioned homebrew thing.
www white-wolf com/community/

Just thought you folks would be interested if you haven't already heard about it.

>>52466207
Mr Bells? I can take him or leave him. You need to talk to Anubis, he's your guy. Suits in the foreground is my straight up bro. guy has literally and figuratively bailed me out of more jams than you would think

>>52466311
Where's the money?

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>>52466384
Apparently you can't charge for whatever you make. You can use whatever you want and create homebrews, but you can't sell them.

Is this White Wolf saying "Make Free Shit for Our Stuff?" Maybe

>>52466428
in that case only the most dedicated fans will use it. (everything costs money these days) Larps groups will have to ignore it. no one will develop large games for it.

But we did have project vaulderie which were modders and importers. Soooooo Maybe Yeah?

>>52466559
It sounds like an unenforceable pile of crap, if you aren't replicating their stuff (like the subnet was) I don't see how they can enforce this.

>>52466559
I'm not sure the Vaulderie modders would be so hot about restarting the project after the cease and desist, but it would be great if they do.

>>52466624
kind of what I was thinking.
>About Larps
Larps NEED money to run. They're usally smaller groups of middle or low income that need site locations. They typically need donations so they can pool their money for bigger, safer, nicer, and have a prime location easily assailable to everyone. A large place in town. If they're hooked to a university it is slightly easier, but not really reliable. So you have a revolving door of locations.

TLDR: Larps can afford to not take donations and use DarkPack agreement

Is Larp chan around? he might have a better take on this subject.

>homebrew
writers will only use it out of a sense of loyalty. So expect a lot of hacks to use it. All in all it feels like whitewolf magazine from the old days

>>52466777
can not afford*

>>52466777
I wish anyone in my town would pay for LARPs, after a fall out with the Camarilla no one in town actually remembers there's a lot of left over animosity towards the whole culture of paying. Not to mention the general lack of income that seems to be present in most LARPers at a college.

>>52466311
White Wolf presents B.J. Zanzibar's World of Darkness Dark Pack™

>>52466969
Nerds make bad PR managers, and typically not adapt at managing large groups of people with different view points.

Look around us. Look at the last few thread. You're stuck in a position of caring too much for an ethereal thing, or not caring about it enough that maintaining it is simply too much work.

This is just a hobby, it's not a job. Why continue a hobby when it becomes so much like your work?

>>52467355
>Why continue a hobby when it becomes so much like your work?
In a desperate attempt to reclaim the fun of my youth. I just can't get into a tabletop as well as a properly run LARP. Its a pity so many people don't runt hem properly.

>>52463193
I dunno man, I think all the White Wolf were good conceptually (with the exception of Beast), but when it comes to actually fleshing out their concepts with ideas, they're horrible at it and rely on pandering to reject douchelords to sell shit. The ironic thing is, they'd probably make a lot more money if they attempted to make their game worlds with universal appeal instead of injecting their meta-wiccan ideology into everything.

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>>52467408
>a desperate attempt to reclaim the fun of my youth
I too know this feel

>>52461928
God, no. If you're really really set on a physical copy you can get them printed on demand at DriveThru for much cheaper than that, forget the Kickstarter deluxe hardcover shit.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/94815/Vampire-The-Masquerade-20th-Anniversary-Edition

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What does /wodg/ think of Genius?

Hey guys! How does one play wraith? Is it like bleach? xD I want to play a spooky game where you can get powerful and have epic underworld fights.

>>52467964
Step1 Kill your parents
Step2 Hate Fuck your friends
Step3 Kill Yourself
Step4 ...
Step5 Profit

>>52468050
What stats for cool ghost power though?

>>52467964
That's really more Mage the Wraith.

Wrath is more about having extremely dark adventures as another player whispers wicked things in your ear and you fight to contain your cruelest impulses.

And that's just when the ST trying to explain the rules and setting.

I've been reading Asimov's foundation series alot lately and I've also wanted to try getting into Mage. It seems like mages are capable of alot, but they're far more ambiguous than vampires or garou.

I've had the idea in my head for a story of a mage that practices what is akin to the psychohistory in Asimov's novels. He uses it to analyze what can be future events, but they're not at all times accurate and sometimes he can end up fucking things up for everyone far worse than if he'd just left it be.

Idk if that's retarded or not or if I'm articulating myself properly, but I wanted to causality and what happens when someone tries to fuck with it. I'm not entirely sure if mage is the kind of game I'm looking for to do this. I appreciate any guidance or criticism.

How do I pitch Changeling: The Lost to a bunch of probable normies who are mostly inexperienced with RPGs in general?

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>>52468480
Hope your players are insufferable sjws and otherkin

>>52468561
That's Dreaming you're thinking of.

>>52468561
>otherkin
He said lost not dreaming. Lost is about rape victims

>>52468569
>>52468583
Oh yeah but my first example still stands.

>>52468612
A lot of the rape victims are men and the rapists technically female.

Really, most of the time it's not even rape. You're people who get abducted by the True Fae and twisted into inhuman half-Fae creatures known as Changelings, then escape back to the real world only to find they've been replaced by fake humans called Fetches and now have to live their lives as monsters while dealing with the effects of their transformation.

>>52468480
Real answer:
Urban fantasy and Fairy tales

>>52468480
Tell them you're doing a Stranger Things kinda deal, help them make some elementary students, then surprise Krampus.

>>52468583
I thought it was about the cyclical nature of abuse in general.

How likely am I to get shanked by the Guardians if I join the Alienist legacy?

Thought I'd post this here again since its a thing and its a better discussion than someone posting a trump GIF could ever hope to achieve

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HoCgoLAnK2blvtrin4hFRK32LF2l4VbSZtnA6UxU84w/edit?usp=sharing

>>52468480

Speaking of Changeling: The Lost, how is that even played?

>>52469010
Try and scrap together a new life, get into trouble with Fae stuff, get into politics with other madmen like you, find solidarity in people who know your struggle, fight for what you believe in, win sometimes, lose more often, try not to cry, cry a lot as you lose clarity

Why are so many methuselahs niggers in owod? Was black dick the antediluvian's only weakness? Cuck shit.

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>>52469109

>>52469157
>Not being ashamed of your heritage
>Not wanting to be associated with apes
>Edgy

How fucking pathetic are you people?

>Cool_radical_4chan_poster has come online

>>52469288
>being racist on 4chan
>2017

Can you do a changeling story where the changeling's durance was actually kind of pleasant but they left cause their keeper was nuts?

I'm imagining a sort of dark fairy godmother. Not technically evil but their mindset and ethics is so alien that they're a danger to everyone else. For example the changeling could get a parking ticket and the next day the meter maid would be found skinned alive.

>>52469772
What, like the Beldam from Coraline meets Lea from the Dresden Files?

>>52469871
Sure? I never seen Coraline and I'm only on the second novel.

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>>52465008
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I understood the rules you can't have disciplines above 3 dots at character creation

You can, but you have to buy it with freebie points.

Of course, some STs prefer to not have newly-embraced neonates running around with mastery of disciplines in the first session, to make sure a player can't solve everything with just a single discipline and whatnot (which is sometimes the case, since some disciplines have a wide variety of uses for both social, mental and physical activities).

But as far as the actual "canon" rules go, you totally could have a five-dot discipline at character creation; a single dot in a discipline costs 7 freebie points, and all characters are given 15 freebie points to allocate however they want, and they could also get up to 7 extra freebie points through various flaws, making for a maximum of 22 freebie points.

So, people could potentially have *six* dots to put into Disciplines at character creation (3 originally that are given for free, plus 3 bought with 21 freebie points), if the Storyteller is okay with it.

>>52469932
It would be a very weird character. An idiot savant at everything except blood based superpowers.

>>52469930
Coraline is on Netflix if you've got it, and Lea shows up in the next book, I'm pretty sure.

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>>52469964
>It would be a very weird character. An idiot savant at everything except blood based superpowers.

Well, I mean, you can still get a character with skills in multiple areas... You *are* given plenty of dots in both attributes and skills before the freebie points, after all.

That said, yeah, it's easy to see how someone could try to abuse the system to create a newly-fledged vampire with superpowers right out of the gate. Fortunately, most STs wouldn't accept that without good reasons...

Like, for example, if they *were* an idiot savant.

Or if they were a ghoul before the embrace, so they'd have an advantage and theoretical knowledge that could be used to help explain why that newly-embraced vamp can already punch through brick walls or juggle dumpsters.

What is the abyss in the awakening?

>>52469964
A one-armed deaf guy who's new in town with Majesty and 5 Humanity and Willpower.

The Abyss is a realm of pure unreality. Anything that Should Not Be in a metaphysical sense exists there, and occasionally that spills into reality in violent ways.

It is a real of that which is not possible, cutting off the Fallen from the Supernal. It is an endless sea of violent emptiness and hollow beings which want nothing but to stop the endless torment of themselves being impossible. It is a realm that does not mean death, but total obliteration of all you are, were and would have been.

Its also what stands between Aspiring Archmasters and the power they strive for.

Guys, I think I like the Giovanni. Is that a bad thing?

>>52470775
It probably means you're an incest loving necrophile.

>>52470775
It´s OK as long as it´s still warm, anon.

Anyone here wants to comment on DAV20´s Awe (Presence 1)? It looks very different from V20´s one.
It says:

>System: The player chooses what impression she wants to make. The impression should be simple, something that can be summed up in one or two words. Honest, competent, or dangerous are good examples.

Isn´t that a bit too powerful for a level 1 power? It´s way more flexible than standard Awe.
Cop stops you- just use Awe and project an "honest" impression.
Don´t want to fight some human bikers- just use Awe and project a "dangerous" impression.
Go to a bar and project a "Hot" impression to get sluts etc.

>>52470775
At least it's not the Lasombra or the Tzimisce.

I don't understand space. Help

>>52471002
Maybe try being less vague. That should help.

>>52471002
Space is space, man.

It's what we all exist in. We're all taking up space.

>>52471010
I don't understand the entire arcana.

>>52471063
Like magical sympathy? Look up 'hermetic sorcery' on youtube to give you an idea what that's about.

Or do you mean like the concept of space? Look up anything about classical mechanics or general relativity.

>>52471063
Lay out the points you're confused on, specifically.

>>52471063
Lucky you. I don't even understand anything about all the interlocking extra systems Mage has, which is why I'm a stupid vampirefag I guess. You have paths and orders and legacies and attainments and I'm just looking at "pick a clan". Least Arcana and Rotes selection is somewhat similar to Discipline and Rituals selection. But then you can use any spell in the whole system below your dots *without* knowing them anyway, so until you've memorized every book you don't actually know the whole breadth of your options. And then I just accept what the GM tells me about any given scenario's paradox chance, not knowing whether it's made-up on the spot or what.

Did we get any more info about Deviant: The Renegades?

>>52471378
don't think so it sounds cool doesn't it?

>>52471274
The infinite potential of awakened magic is the biggest draw for the system. More than one of my chronicles has been me teaching my players how to be more creative with magic and not just stand around chucking fireballs.

>>52471063
It's people's understandings of positioning and directions, it also relates to the ties between people, such as the tie between someone and their dog, or a person and their birthplace, or even just a boss and his worker.

So you can stretch, compress, and warp space, move things around within it, create new spaces not connected to anything (pocket dimensions) or excise existing space from the whole for that purpose.

You can bend bullet's pathways, stretch your eyesight around corners, project your attacks across intervening space.

You can also teleport and create portals.

>>52471394
it sure does, i'm really excited for it

>>52470964
Objectively the two best clans along with Setites tho.

>>52471495
You misspelled Tremere, anon.

>>52471378
I'm just looking forward to be able to play an honest to God Cyborg.

>>52462573

What would be the best possible mage for the kindred to be allies with though? Which Arcana would be best?

>>52471516
>liking worst clan

Not even liking magics is an excuse since other clans have them too.

>>52471378
In the recent AMA on reddit they wrote that until White Wolf greenlights it (and that won't be until they actually send it to them), there won't be any news. Dave also wrote, that he is currently working on it so much, that he has no time to work on Signs of Sorcery.

>>52471525
Death is the obvious choice, however Forces is another good selection.
Their control over Fire and Sunlight is extremely potent.

>>52471525
Death, Forces & Mind.

Fate can also fuck with their politics.

"I've seen enough hentai to know where this is going"

Death ••••
Weaving
Primary Factor: Duration
Withstand: Stamina
Cost: 1 mana

Shadowy entropic tentacles grab the target inflicting the immobilized tilt and drag it into twilight. Dealing Potency lethal damage.

>>52471617
How does it deal potency damage when its primary factor is duration?

>>52471637
Hentai violates anything, even the rules.

>>52471637
Potency drops to 1 when primary factor is duration, hombre.
You've just got to spend either spell factors or reach to increase/shift that potency.

>>52471617
Some people might actually WANT you to do this to them.

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>>52471525
Why would a vampire become friends / allies with a mage? The leeches are bloody terrified of wizards.

>>52471637
Everything has a default of 1 for potency or duration primary factor raises it to your dots in the arcana.

So if a master cast this spell the target would suffer 1 damage, be immobilized, and get violated in twilight for 10 turns or a year if you spend reach for advanced duration.

If nobody who isn't a mage has anything to offer mages, why do they even bother interacting with society ever?

>>52471699
Because not every Vampire is the same, or particularly wants the hand they've been dealt, or to deal with Vamp politics.

>>52471737
Every Supernatural has something to offer to Mages, even if that's only the potential to act as a subject of the Mage's Obsession.

Furthermore, they frequently have powers which can be used in full view of Sleepers withotu driving them insane.

>>52471699

A vampire with Celerity could 1v1 any mage and win, to be honest.

http://theonyxpath.com/goblin-contracts-changeling-the-lost/

New Changeling 2e preview, Rose Bailey and Meghan Fitzgerald are confirmed for the new co-developers.

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>>52471815

>>52468757
approved

>>52468757
that sounds great

>>52471666
Kinky.

>>52471737
>>52471766

Vampires are very important to mages.

There nothing better than vampires for young Obrimos to use as practice as they increase their proficiency in Forces. In case they make any mistakes, it's not like they will hurt a living person, and vampires burn real good.

I'm also curious how a devout member of the Lance et Sanctum would react if under the effect of Prime 4 Apocalypse cast by an Obrimos?

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The difference between a magecucks and a magefag is that a magecuck is always cucked by reality

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GIVE HIM THE BROWN EYE

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Reminder that some mages enjoy the sensation of Paradox.

>>52471909
Using apocalypse on the unAwakened is definitely hubris and needlessly cruel even by mage standards.

>>52471822
New co-developers at this stage? Smells fishy.

>>52466777
I've actually just got done making dinner, so I'm reading it now.

As a LARP organizer, the thing to look at here is what it says to charge for. Which is to say, the 'your material' portion.

If I write a LARP scenario, or rewrite something for LARP rules (like we have for our game, with Hunter the Reckoning Edges), I can't sell the documents or take donations for the documents. That is 'my stuff'.

The hotel is not 'my stuff,' it is communal site and as such, would not fall under the 'your stuff' clause there. At least, that's how I would read it. People are donating for the site, not for your documents and such.

>>52466969
>>52467408

Where are you at, anon? You might have luck looking at larping.org and bynightstudios.com for their LARP listings.

>>52471988
>Using apocalypse on the unAwakened

No, using it on Sleepers is Hubristic because it invokes the Quiescence, but other supernaturals like vampires are treated like Sleepwalkers.

However, it would still could be pretty freaking weird or frightening. I imagine a vampire experiencing the world filtered through the Aether would be very uncomfortable. If all went well, he would realize he's a vicious parasite, that Heaven is judging him for his ample sins, and then greet the dawn as punishment.

>>52466559
Also, I recall reading somewhere connected to this that they're going to be working on rules for 3rd party release material. So who knows.

>>52472081
>>52472098
>>52472102

Oh god fuck off PLEASE eurofag

>>52472122
... but I'm not a eurofag, I'm from the southeastern US. Why don't you go back to the corner and Magewank.

>>52464458
I always give them +1 extra damage taken from sunlight, while keeoing the mirror thing.

They are shadowmancers after all,

>>52472148
That's a pretty decent one. I gave them a Degeneration penalty in a home game once, where the Abyss actively pulled on their soul and so it made losing Path/Humanity much more easy.

>>52471815
Celerity blitzers are fast, I can agree on that. Dodging bullets is exceeding 1,700 mph.

Yet mages have far too many contingencies for that to even matter. Kinetic barriers, gravity control, time dilation, destiny saying "NO" and so much more.

Mages are frequently labeled as the kings of white-rooms.

>>52472145
>southeastern US
So you probably cut holes in Bibles and rape them then.

How is that any better than a eurotard?

>>52469932
Hold up, what? Don't freebie points use the xp chart, which has disciplines at clan currentx5 nonclan currentx7? And don't you only get 15 by default?

I'm so fucking confused.

>>52472216
Freebies have their own cost, which should be on the freebie point page or on the character creation quick reference. They are flat 'X freebies per dot'.

Wait, why do people hate Europeans?

mage > you

>>52471617
Pick between "Drags into Twilight" and Damage and it works as a magical grapple. Course you could easily add damage as a +1 Reach option, but I'd have it be Bashing

10/10 Rote/Praxis

>>52472000
You haven't heard? There was a huge blow out the other day about that guy who wrote "We Eat Blood". The Changeling dev quit because he doesn't want to be associated with anyone who would knowingly hire that asshole.

>>52472226
Oh my goodness- I entirely missed that. That gives me a LOT more options.

>>52472226
No discount or mention for necromancy Paths. Shame.

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Start them magefags young

>>52472102
A vampire wouldn't be able to interpret what the symbols from active mage sight means. So to him it would be like a nightmarish acid trip, minus 2 to all rolls, and an instant loss of willpower which would only continue every additional scene until he's blind.


I'd feel like a dick if I did that to a fictional creature.

>>52472394
Paths are just Disciplines for all intents and purposes, I've never seen an ST bar them from being purchased at the Discipline costs as long as it obeys the normal rules of Thaum or Necromancy.

>>52472364
Because of that? I thought he was angry just at White Wolf so he would stop doing oWoD. I definitely didn't expect that he would stop developing Changeling, especially now when it's supposedly almost complete.

>>52472479
Nah, he has a feud with Zak S. about harassment and such, as Hill has accused Zak of harassment (apparently including photo's of his kid's school?) So he stopped developing for WW and is now making his own vampire game, with the tag line 'a game about monsters. but not written by monsters'.

I find that funny when his twitter is full of crazy neoliberal communist stuff. Also, I'm waiting ont hat Japanese dude who schooled him on waifu to school him on some recent posts too.

>>52472435
>I'd feel like a dick if I did that to a fictional creature

Grow a pair of balls, you sack. Says every mage ever.

>>52472193
Mage Armor takes an Instant Action and a Mana to activate for the scene (which covers Kinetic Barriers, Temporal Dilation as armor, Destiny saying no...)

Gravity Control requires an instant action and likely a mana, but could be done with Space or Forces 4

In all likelyhood, a Mage's best options for dealing with Kindred involve Forces 2+A Lighter, Space 1 (Reduce target's speed by potency to a minimum of 1), Life 3 to harden the flesh to the point you can't be punctured by teeth.... Yeah thats all I can think of thats by the book

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I'm interested in finishing off a proper writeup for that Las Vegas "Beauty and the Beast" Freehold. And then running a game set in it.

Anyone have any suggestions for where to find out more information about how Vegas actually operates and what it's really like, including its history. Non-American here.

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Mage is the most retarded game ever
>Literal symbol of the messenger
>can't use in travel magic
>Game for the autistic

>>52472517
>Mage Armor takes an Instant Action and a Mana to activate for the scene
Nope, it's Reflexive.
Which is something my players always forget, and keep burning Mana for Armour they just don't need.

>>52472435

You're totally missing the narrative and flavor of the spell in your focus on the mechanics.

A vampire, particularly a member of the Lancea et Sanctum, exposed to the Heavenly symbols of the Aether would probably feel like he experienced a very judgmental religious experience.

>>52472522
Wikipedia is a good place to start. Otherwise just go online and search "History of Las Vegas"

>>52472359
A'ight version 2.0

"I've seen enough hentai to know where this is going"

Death ••••
Weaving
Primary Factor: Duration
Withstand: Stamina
Cost: 1 mana

Entropic tentacles burst from the shadows to grab the target and inflict the immobilized tilt.

+1 Reach: The target is dragged into twilight for the duration. This damages or destroys any mundane clothing/equipment as per normal. (This isn't a joke this really happens in death attuned twilight)
+1 Reach: The spell also does damage equal to Potency.

>>52472517
So the Kindred don't stand a chance then.

What else is new?

>>52472536
Just because you think something works one way doesn't mean the Supernal agrees. This isn't Ascension.

Just because you associate cats with luck doesn't mean that cats have Arcadian sympathy. You would need to perform a Fate or Time Ascension Rite, and carry the symbol of cats up to Arcadia with you to make that happen.

Like Merlin did with Arthurian Mythology.
Which is why that's now Arcadian.

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>>52472544
You can change between Mage Armors as a reflexive action, but activation requires mana and an instant action

Unless I'm forgetting errata, which is entirely possible

>>52472522
Oh snap. How's the freehold developing? I posted some ideas in the original thread.

>>52472517

Who needs the lighter.

A Forces 2 Shielding spell alone can make a mage effectively immune to all kinetic damage. Physical altercations, with the undead or otherwise, are not even a nuisance to such a mage.

>>52472558
perfect

>>52472517
Celerity can't interrupt Reflexive actions. The vampire must also know it's about to be attacked, and mages ~always~ attack first.

There's nothing a vampire is going to be able to do, not even with Celerity.

>>52472394
You wouldn't really be able to get a path anyway. With most of them you need to be a least 3 dots in to learn a secondary path.

>>52472599
Well, with Forces 2 you can enhance the flame via Fire Control to scare the fuck out of a vamp

>>52472579
That's from the pre-errata pdf it's reflexive.

>>52472536
>Nike
>Literal symbol of the messenger

Wrong. It's a sigil of the Chancellor, used with great as a Patron Tool by the Prelates in the Ministry of Mammon.

>>52472514

>neoliberal
>communist

Pretty sure those are polar opposites, given how those two groups of people clash on the internet.

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>>52472579
>Unless I'm forgetting errata, which is entirely possible
Yep

What can be dangerous to a Archmage? And that is not another Archmage.

>>52472666
I don't know, his ranting makes no fucking sense without context.

This conversation reminds me of that one idiot back on the OPP forums that kept preaching how Celerity can 1v1 anything, literally anything.

He got steamrolled during the Crossover Chronicle thread.

>>52472676
They won't challenge a powerful Archmage, but those who've just finished their Threshold Seeking should probably still be wary of Masters, Gods, and powerful Ephemerals. Especially those in their home realms.

That is, unless they're sufficiently prepared, or have an Imperial Practice ready to go.

>>52472715

Remember that archmages win ALL Clash of Wills, and mages love their CoW's.

>>52472715
Were the gods not crippled by the exarchs?

>>52472715
Masters aren't a threat to even a newly minted Archmage. They automatically win all Clash of Wills and their spells can't be countered. The Practice of Dynamics (six dots) alone is horrific.

>>52472715
Destroying an Archmages 'physical form' doesn't kill him.

It's like an inverse astral journey. The archmage will just pop back into his golden road annoyed.

>>52472676
Supernal Denizens, Godlike Beings (Luna for instance), Aswadim (Abyssal Archmages essentially), Qliphoths (beings that infect you with Paradox) though Archmages can bail on one by retreating to their Golden Road, Ochemata (Archmage Avatars)

>>52472758
The gods got destroyed by the Exarchs, yes. Some managed to survive and stay within the Supernal, either as runaways or slaves. The God-Machine is a good example of a god that got dethroned.

>>52472742
Those are quick and dirty rules for Archmages v.s. Mages. They don't consider the possibility of Archmages going up against Gods.

Furthermore, unless the Archmage has a shielding spell up, or is counterspelling, it's unlikely that they'll have a Clash of Wills.

>>52472758
Many Supernal Gods were torn from their thrones and fell to earth.
However there are most than just Supernal Gods in the world.
Spirits go up to Rank 8, and I would assume a similar thing could be said of Goetia and Ghosts/Annu-whatevers.
Also you can encounter Supernal Gods if you travel to the Supernal.

>>52472789
>The archmage will just pop back into his golden road annoyed

An annoyed and plotting archmages is one of the scariest things in the CofD.

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JOJO JO JO

Master Daeva

DA WORLDO

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>>52462610
>What does an ancient immortal being with tons of money and influence have to offer a power-hungry seeker of mysteries.

Are you real? I mean really, just because the vampire has nothing POWER WISE to give him, doesn't change the fact that said Prince is likely rich off his balls, has women, money, connections, political favors in local government, and possibly knows things about history the Mage doesn't do to having actually been there?

>But anon there's Mages who are like that too-

Yeah like I'm going to trust Tohsaka to give me a fair deal. He'll probably want something mystery or magic related. Vampire just wants me to fry some fuckers with lightning.

Unrelated question: Egyptian-themed Obrimos how do?

>>52472814
>They don't consider the possibility of Archmages going up against Gods.

They do in Imperial Mysteries. Spirit 9 is enough to enslave Luna.

>>52472915
Which is not what I was talking about.
Also that's for a transitory duration.
Enjoy your few seconds of complete and total control over the Goddess of the Moon.

>>52472854
>Egyptian-themed Obrimos
I like it. It's a good theme for mages in-general.

>>52472964
Nope. The effects are absolutely permanent if you so desire. Transfiguration itself only lasts for so long. You also need Gnosis to defend against it, which Luna does not have.

>>52472854

If a mage really cared about such material things over the more esoteric Mysteries, which his magic can generally provide, he would have joined the Seers.

Seers of the Throne Sourcebook (p.52):

New Merit: Luxury (•• or ••••)
Many Seers of the Throne possess this
Merit. It doesn’t represent flexible resources
but the ability to live a privileged lifestyle
without spending money. Seers acquire this
through blackmail, favor trading and investments in businesses and other organizations
that cater to the elite.
Effect: Your character lives like a millionaire or better, regardless of her actual
Resources. She wears fine clothes, drives
expensive cars and can always get a spot at
exclusive restaurants and resorts. She doesn’t
pay for any of it through cash transactions.
Instead, her social ties and backers provide
these creature comforts.
The •• version of this Merit provides the
luxuries someone with US$5 million in assets
(or Resources 5) could enjoy without breaking
the bank. She always flies frst class or in a
chartered plane. There’s a Porsche waiting
for her at the airport, and she can always get
past the bodyguards at a nightclub. The ••••
version of the Merit provides the kind of lifestyle that alternately fascinates and disgusts
the rest of the world. The character has jets
and helicopters at her constant disposal, rubs
shoulders with celebrities and can count on a
staff of assistants willing to cater to her every
legal whim — and a few illegal ones (recreational drugs and prostitutes, for example).

>>52472964

Starting at Sprit 4, a mage has effective Sprit Rank equal to his dots in Spirit.

An archmaster with Spirit 9 is the biggest badass in the Shadow.

>>52472998
There's also Assumption, which is Transfiguration but possibly permanent. You're essentially unbeatable at that point.

>>52472998
Fair enough.
Though really, the Quintessence is enough to risk the annihilation of your Soul several times over.
Seeking the Oracles or Exarchs, ruins of destroyed Watchtowers, and the blood of Supernal Gods.

All so you can make Luna your pet.

>>52473063
An Archmaster with Spirit 9 is a hair's breadth off of Ascension through the most effort-intensive method possible.

>>52472522
Yeah sure. Did anyone save our notes from last time?

>>52473077
>All so you can make Luna your pet
How is such a thing ~not~ worthwhile? You're enslaving a rank 8 entity, that's huge. It's not a thing to scoff at.

Don't pretend like it's nothing, because it really isn't. The Archmaster would effectively have complete dominion over Werewolf in the highest sense.

>>52473116
>How is such a thing ~not~ worthwhile?
Okay, consider this. Instead of enslaving a bunch of Woofers, and performing an act which breaks Pax Arcanum on a cosmic scale, you could be working on your Ascension.

At that stage, you're bullshit powerful.
But odds are there's at least one or two other people just as strong as you are, who don't want you to break the world, while they're in the process of trying to escape/break the world.

>>52473116
It would be damn impressive. It's just an example of how mortals can surpass deities, reminiscent of Atlantis and its hubris.

However, it would garner a great deal of attention from rivals and allies both, and especially your enemies. The Pax Arcanum is a deadly dance.

>>52473116
The Nemesis probably likes the current status quo in the shadow and would take personal interest in fucking with you if you tried that.

>>52473152

As a friendly reminder, not all Seekers desire Ascension.

>>52473209
>Archmaster tries
>Archmaster succeeds

Pretty much how it goes. It's the consequences that follow, that matter.

>>52473218
In time, I would assume all Seekers desire Death or Ascension.
You're immortal and forced into an endless cold war.
You can never go back. Only forwards.
To your ultimate end.

>>52473033
So you're saying that NO MAGE would be tempted by significant resources, vast government influence, ancient knowledge, and luxury, all without having to share anything in return save for the opportunity to cast spells occasionally.

And any mage that was interested in these things would instead enslave themselves to cosmic tyrants.

Yeah that makes tons of sense.

>>52473330
>>52473374
>>52473241
>>52473033
>There are people who actually think all Mages are autistic wankers who don't care about mortal concerns at all and only obsess about magic.

Autism: Together we can find a cure.

>>52472666
That's just the lefty way, struggle sessions forming an identity politics ouroboros that eats itself

>>52473395
Dave has made it clear that most Archmages don't care about the masses.

The ones that do always act through proxy means.

>>52473419
Okay that's reasonable- but does that apply to normal mages too? Some folks seem to think it does.

>>52473430
Um, yes? They look at mages like mages look at sleepers.

>>52473435
No, I mean do mages look at the masses the same way.

>>52473435
No you idiot, he's referring to this faggot>>52473033 who seems to think all Mages are autistic scholar-monks with no interest in the material world.

>>52473440
Mages are still human. They can be interested in whatever they damn well want. I'm on your side here.

>>52473430
Archmages have to treat Mages like Mages have to treat Sleepers, except even more harshly.

You can't actually tell them anything substantive about what you're doing, or they'll be killed, and you'll be severely reprimanded.
Beyond "hey, go fetch me the remnants of a broken Time Machine, and I'll send you back to the 19th century to save the world".

Pax Arcanum is a BITCH.

>>52473439
The Mysterium is a known sleeper hating faction of dicks. Or at least, they hate them the most.

Mages don't think much of sleepers in-general, actually. The Free Council is obviously different.

>>52473464
Mysterium has the highest proportion of Sleeper-haters.
However the order as a whole is ambivalent about the topic.
It's certain groups like the Daksha, and the Order's focus around fighting against Pancryptia which gives them that reptuation.

Unlike the Silver Ladder and the Free Council who both adore Sleepers, but just want them to be more than they currently are.

I need a beastie.

In light of the It remake trailer, my group is feeling nostalgic, so I agreed to run Innocents for them. I don't want to be so lazy as to directly copy Pennywise, but I do like the whole "this entire town is it's feeding ground" thing, so I need a monster for the group to fight that can fuck with minds, is physically powerful enough to be a considerable threat that way, but not totally impossible for some physically gifted teenagers to at least moderately threaten in the right circumstances. I also want it to have a minion, a dumb brute I can use for an initial encounter. I don't want to use any form of human, no vampires, lycanthropes, etc. I want something truly otherworldly, but not overwhelmingly powerful. If rules for it don't exist I can make up some stats, what I need is something with lore and themes I can use.

>>52472854
Make a Death Legacy that turns you into a Mummy

Use gold, anhks, the various eyes of the egyptian gods as symbol/tool Yantras

Use preserved scarabs, beer, figs, pomegranates, melons and other vine fruits as sacrament Yantras

Have your Shadow Name be styled after Egyptian Gods or prominent figures in their history (Pharohs, high Priests, so on)

Try to use animals found in Egypt if you take on traits from animals using Life such as Camels, Jackals, Hawks, Crocodiles, Lions, abyssian cats (I swear they aren't Abyssal)

>>52473241
Unless it breaks the Pax Arcanum in which case good luck getting smacked from several different directions by other people who are trying to get leverage to break it in their preferred ways

>>52473502
Use a weak Strix. You can find rules for them in Blood and Smoke

>>52473522
Pity that under the rules as written, you can't have the Fifth Attainment as a "you return from death when killed" effect.
Instead you'd just need that as a potent, indefinite, relinquished, prime-shielded Death Unmaking spell.

Have anybody here played or planned out their own or alternative universe settings for World of Darkness games?

I know setting games in medieval times or other earlier parts of time is popular.

World of Darkness also has a bunch of prophesied apocalypses which could make for great after the apocalypse settings although I haven't really heard of anyone using that.

>>52473641
Really I always saw the attraction of WoD as playing a game about supernatural either in current, or historical settings.

Never in playing Vampire: Fury Road

>>52473565
Well that would be the 6th Attainment

Instead give yourself undead features using Death. Give yourself the ability to sense guilt in the deaths of others (Strange attainment style), follow that up with the ability to look like you are dead and act on minimum motion (Veiling), continue on with Soul Jar that allows you to act as if you had your soul in you even if its stored somewhere else (Canopic Jar style). Finish off with a buff while your soul is not currently in your body using Perfecting and a Unmaking to make it so you will not die of time or natural causes while your soul is removed from the body

>>52473641
I've run a post apocalyptic Mage the Ascension where God left and took his toys with him, leaving the world in a state where spirits were fighting for the mantle of "God" and control of what can and can't be

>>52473552
That's what I meant by consequences?

Mudras are only tied to rotes right?

>>52473687
God was always gone. That, or he just doesn't care. Or perhaps he's not actually omnipotent like people claim. I mean, why did he let the Unnamed fry the entire universe to a black crisp?

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>>52473746
For now.

>>52473687
that sounds cool

>>52470943
Think about how high your generation is

>>52463410
My vampire fought a mage PC once. I didn't have much hope for myself honestly, but then the ST told her to stop pretending her spells just went off and roll to see how long it takes. I shot her in the face, end combat.

I would have been in trouble if I stood there for four hours though.

>>52473687
To continue on this a little, basically:

God left, taking the remaining Angels and Demons with him. Following that, Spirits started to fill in the power gaps, taking on roles of local gods Exalted style with a lot less order and civility. Werewolves had basically reimposed Impergium for the most part, with a few of the tribes still siding with Humans in secret (since all humans are still scared of woofs unless they are Kinfolk, and even then Kinfolk aren't always guaranteed good lives, just glorified slavehood). Spirits started taking on dual aspects of the Triat as well, making Gaia and spirits who supported her Wyld and Wyrm aligned. Spirits more reliant on humanity shifted to Wyld and Weaver. Not much was Weaver/Wyrm though, but there was weird things out there. Queen Ananasi had become the new Weaver, replacing the old one after the Wyrm devoured it. The Wyld is still the Wyld, and still fucking weird and capricious. Gaian Tribes included the Get, Children of Gaia (who have done a complete flip on ideology), Red Talons, Shadow Lords (though they are just in it for the lording around), Silver Fangs and the Homid half of the Wendigo (who follow the splinter of Wendigo known as The Cannibal). Luna's Tribes (Wyld/Weaver) included the Wardens of Man (who took that name again for obvious reasons), Bone Gnawers (who always cherished their Kinfolk and by extension, humanity), Black Furies (who just flat out didn't like the way that shit was), the other half of the Wendigo (who followed the splinter known as the Guardian of the People), the Uktena and the Silent Striders (who refuse to have anything to do with the Wyrm even if it means they have once again lost their homes, though this time they don't feel compelled to constantly travel)

Cont.

>>52463410
Power level or game quality?

How magical realms have you ever had a game go? Has it ever gone full [spoilers]ERP?[/spoilers]

>>52473832
Ummm... Was that Awakening or Ascension? If it was the former, the mage wouldn't have needed more than a second to kill you.

>>52473859
Doubtless power level.
So many Mage fans are complete and utter retards with no appreciation for the game's themes.

>>52473877
One of the themes is power and hubris.

>>52473850
Vampires didn't exist anymore, but their children did in the form of Ghoul Families and Dhamphirs, though the cabal never found that out. Years of the blood strengthening in the families allowed them to start taking on more vampiric traits though, such as fangs and the ability to feed. There were areas where they were strong enough to hold ground against Werewolves and Spirits, but they usually ruled over non-family humans rather harshly to the point it didn't matter. Some even claimed there were ways of concentrating the blood so heavily they could start to reach the level of Elder Vampire potential.

Changelings found a way back to Arcadia, and resumed their ways of fucking with humanity for shits and giggles when they get bored. Seelie tend to be nicest about it, in the sense that you likely won't get anything worse than a hangover or a scar from a Seelie unless you offended its honor and didn't apologize, while Unseelie are showing their colors by being as dickish as possible to humans for the years of Banality imposed on them.

Also, by "God left" I mean "God came back shortly to get the things he left behind that he actually cared about"

>>52473889
I understand that.

Some people might not believe me, but everyone I've had in my games have been dickless cowards who worry too much about stepping on other people's toes.

Apart from that one Obrimos guy in my Victorian game.
He gave no shits.

>>52473872
Mages in Ascension don't need more than a second to kill you either.

>>52464283
It's hinted that elders just kind of know when the big nap is coming, but like a lot of things super fleshed out and stated in the fluff there are no actual rules or mechanics for it.

Elders just go to sleep for 100 years sometimes, for no listed reason other then they are old. It's implied but never out right stated they can tell it's coming, and it's implied but never over right stated at least some of them can still somehow communicate with their servants and childer through auspex but never outright stated. and obviously, not RAW for any of the above.

>>52473832
I think you were fighting a sorcerer, not a mage.

>>52473899
>vampire trash
>being able to stand against werewoofs
yeah fuckn' right, not even vampires can stand alone against a pack of werewolves unless they manage some really stupid stealth rolls or are powerleveled

>>52473899
The last thing to note about that game was that Spirits controlled what was Paradoxical or not. The most powerful spirit in an area would claim an amount of land, and its rules were Paradox. This could be bypassed though if you had higher Arete than the spirit's power level, but if you got the attention of bigger spirits they could start to fuck with you as well, especially if the local spirits had patrons

>>52473964
Not him but what's a sorcerer?

>>52473979
Mage lite

>>52473979
A fake nerd, the kind with thick-rimmed glasses.

>>52473979
Best comparison is Dr Strange from the recent Marvel movie.

He doesn't have any inherent reality warping powers, instead he learns how to draw upon the existing powers of reality. His powers are inflexible, and frequently related to material focuses.

In Ascension, Sorcerers are those who use reality's powers, rather than redefining reality.
As such, they have much more restricted powers, however they don't have to deal with Paradox, as they're following along with what the consensus on some level acknowledges.

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Are mages legitimately the strongest things playable in both oWoD and nWoD or is this just hype?

What's the coolest magic in VtM?

>Thaumaturgy
>Kuldonic Sorcery
>Abyss Mystiscism
>Assamite Sorcery
...

>>52474018
Its people being dumbasses to an extent. Mages are the most versatile things, however

>>52473832
>mage didn't have a shield
>mage didn't have any charms or hung spells
>no rotes
>no instant casting
>no magic items
>headed into danger alone

Sounds like you were fighting a pretty shit mage, anon. It also sounds like your ST didn't particularly like them. Oh well. One of the many perils of crossover, I guess.

>>52474009
Sorcerers are also looked down upon by mages, at least in the Order of Hermes. They frequently train them in the hopes that they will eventually awaken, lest they stay "eternal children" for all time.

The other option is vampirism, though blood magic is nowhere near as powerful compared to true magic.

>>52474037
Aren't those just Thaumaturgy? The 2 VtM magics are Thaum and Necromancy.

>>52474037
Necromancy.

>>52474040
They also have the most raw power.

>>52474018
It's true but not as true as these threads would lead you to believe.

>>52474075
Potential Power*

>>52474095
That too. You can't refute the rawness of their magic.

>>52474075
they are also very vulnerable, and their power isn't exclusive
see >>52463649

>>52474018
They're without a doubt the most versatile, and they have the highest power ceiling.

However how powerful they are in comparison to other supernaturals is on a case by case basis, however due to the versatility of Mage abilities I'd generally favor the Mage in "general" situations.

>>52474109
That makes no sense.

Wasn't it mentioned in The Pack that even Apprentice mages outdo elder Uratha?

>>52474133
It said something along the lines of "they can do more".

>>52474121
>human sized and strength [physical that is] creatures
>use armor that can be ignored by other splats powers
>can have dots of XP stolen leaving them one / however many dots down and needing to rebuy them if they survive the encounter where the dot was stonel

makes perfect sense

>>52474133
>he hasn't read W20
magefags, everyone
I bet you haven't even read ANY WoD materials in the past 5 years

>>52474166
Not exactly.

Why doesn't everyone learn mage magic? Especially all these super old vampires with nothing but time and literally no interests besides power?

>>52474175
>stonel
stolen, stupid alcohol

>>52474175
You're a confused individual.

>>52474180
Vampires can't learn true magic.

>>52474180
In the Old World of Darkness? Because Mage Magic is something you have to Awaken to get. Its not a trained skill, its a mystical experience that fundamentally changes the type of being you are, giving you access to your Avatar.

The Curse of Caine sheds your Avatar, making Awakening impossible.

In the nWoD? Every major template alters your soul in some way, and none of them are compatible for that reason.

>>52474220
>none of them are compatible for that reason
Actually I think DaveB said wolf blooded keep their shit if they Awaken.

>>52474220
True Magick is a trained talent, you just need to Awaken to grasp it. They're more akin to wizards than sorcerers, in D&D terms.

>>52474236
He's referring to the major Templates. It's explicit that you can't have hybrids.

>>52474220
What if you're a Dhampir? You should have an avatar if you were just born that way.

>>52474175
You're not even close to being right.

We're not even talking about oWoD to begin with you eurotard.

>>52474268
Minor templates like that I'm pretty sure can stack. You can have a Ghoul Mage for instance I know.

>>52474175
The Pack is a CofD splatbook you dumb fucking whore.

>>52474179
No shit not exactly. That's why I said "along the lines of".

>>52473964
Nope, it was a Euthanatos. They hadn't prepared at all and where trying to say 'I do this, I do that, I do the other' and the ST is like 'Dude this is against another PC you are rolling everything.' and not one bit of the shit she was trying to pull (daylight bomb creation, agg damage bullets, ect) was made instantly.

So my character killed her when she went from talking shit to casting spells.

>>52474433
Last place I saw rules for Dhampir, they were basically ghouls without domitors, but it might have been the BNS Larp book. Critically, they had no beast there. Check wherever you're reading about dhampir, because I think some of the sources treat them differently (or if you're just reading on revenants). If you have a beast, your soul (and avatar) isn't intact IMO.

>>52474646
Oh, so they were a moron.

That explains it.

>>52474018
Mages are Batman. If they have time to get ready, and know enough about what they're fighting, they're functionally gods.

>>52473563
Aren't those just a variety of vampire?

>>52474865

>>52462447

Believe it. I've played 3 CofD campaigns in set in Philly (because it's nearby) and our Mage game seems to be the one where we're finally going to tackle the "Hunter Problem" that keeps coming up in our games.