/5eg/ Fifth Edition Genera

Are the Mordenkainen's prefixed spells and the like pre-Weave?

>>52461954
>he cares about the lore at all
>not just using your own setting lore
what are you, a fucking pleb

>>52461954
Probably not? Since Mr.M appear in CoS.

What order would a mindflayer mystic be?

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I know im late to the discussion on this one but.. what were you guys thoughts on the stone sorcerer. DM said i can play one in the next campaign an im stoked. But do you guys think they are a little bit over powered? Also do you guys allow unearthed arcanas at your table? I allow them at my table but only if i approve of them

>>52462004
some people like playing in established settings, there's a reason planescape and eberron have fanbases

>>52462044
Stone Sorcerer's fun. Your main shtick is Twinned Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade, Twined haste on you and someone else and being able to burst like a motherfucker.

Elemental Weapon with Twined and Quickened Booming Blade is awesome.

>>52462023
None of them? If you feel the need to stat it as a PC, Awakened, but since they are typically a hivemind and thus NPC race, just give them whatever disciplines you want.

>>52462044
They're a straight upgrade over Draconic but they aren't overpowered - they're still subpar as gishes due to squishiness, and multiclassing Paladin makes their AC and weapon/shield proficiencies redundant.

But as the other anon mentioned, it's fun being able martial it up with the damage cantrips and self buffs.

>>52462069
Yeah thats what i was basically thinking. Went human varient and started with the tough feet as well for a pseudo d12 hitdie on level. Looks fun as shit and tough as nails

>>52462099
Yeah they can be a bit squish if you allow that to happen. But id definitely take con over cha (initially) and take the tough feat to give you similar health to a barbarian

>>52462126
Good choice, what's your stat array? I wasn't happy with mine but I lived as a Triton with 16, 12, 14, 8, 12, 14.

Do you make your players roll for HP when they level up?

>>52462190
Pretty happy with mine honestly. After racials and +1 con from tough im at:
>Str: 16
>Dex: 10
>Con: 16
>Int: 7
>Wis: 12
>Cha: 16
Rolled: 16 15 14 12 10 7

>>52462044
I allow all UA at my table except of the egregious combos like Nuclear Druid, or 1 level dips into Revised Ranger (3+ and you're good). I'm pretty flexible with making things work and willing to homebrew as needed. Likewise, the people I play with aren't generally abusive with leniency.

>>52462237
>tough
>+1 to con
read the feat

>>52462237
Uh, Tough doesn't give a +1 Con. Sorry man.

Nice rolls though.

>>52462251
>>52462252
Haha cheers blokes, thought it seemed to good to be true. Good job i havent played it yet. Ill probably swap around the str and con or charima and con in that case

So I just checked Stoner Sorcerer now (because of the thread) and they do seem pretty awesome. So you could actually ignore Dex and go for the big weapons. Reach would probably help a lot with your survivability, as well.

As a stone sorcerer, what would you prioritize between Str, Con and Cha?

>>52462278
Str, Con then Cha. Honestly Mirror Image, Haste, Elemental Weapon and other buff spells are best. Find a lot without concentration though.

BB/GFB are your main attacks and the rest of your spells can be utility.

>>52462278
I would go con, str then cha

>>52462191
Yes. Early on I give them best of 2 rolls, but after level 5 they get one roll.

>>52462191
Personally i leave it up to them, they can take the average if they want

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>>52462278
If you want to gish, STR > CON > CHA

You need CHA for your ranged attack rolls and save DCs, but if you're gishing then you're not using it at all, and could in theory dump it.

If you use a Reach weapon you need Spell Sniper in order to be able to connect GFB and BB with it. Shields are nice, though, and PAM+Warcaster works on Quarterstaves (which can be your Arcane Focus) without the need for Spell Sniper.

>>52462278
Reach weapons are only worth it if you take the Spell Sniper Feat, because your damage comes from GBF, BB and smites anyway and the cantrips have a reach of 5 feat.
I would say go for a shield, because your weapons damage die isn't that important.

How would you:
-Buff STR
-Buff INT
-Nerf DEX

Not necessarily all at once.

>>52462374
I would overhaul the ability scores. Are you retarded?

>>52462289
Funny thing to have utility on a sorcerer. But that sounds good.

>>52462325
>>52462323
Ah, I see. Why would you pick PAM, though? If you're gonna use BB and GFB, you can't make the bonus action attack... Opportunity GFB when they enter your reach sounds neat, but not really worth the feat. I'd rather get mobile, twin BB at the enemies, back up and taunt them.

>>52462374
STR also apply to initative.

>>52462191
Do you want to train your player to cheat at D&D? If not then no.

Only thing that bugs me as a Sorcerer is that you want concentration spells to buff yourself (and maybe someone else if twinned), but then you can't cast you smites. Smites aren't that important, but with the number of spellslots you got they should be well worth it.

>>52462374

>nerf DEX

Make it so that AC bonus can be calculated off con or DEX at player discretion (This will get rid of AC/HP tank differences and just make tanks go for con, a little less build variety I guess but it doesn't really matter)

>Buff STR

Make intimidation an STR check instead of charisma, make every 4 points above 10 in STR give 1 AC penetration (i.e your hit is calculated based on your opponents AC-1*multiples of 4 above 10)

>Buff INT

Every 4 points in INT above 10 give an extra 25% increase in spell damage or duration, if both damage and duration are applicable (i.e DoT) the 25% bonus goes to the damage per round rather than any other potential effects of the spell rounded down if INT is your spellcasting stat (likewise this should apply to CHA for sorcerers just to make it so that sorcerers aren't getting fucked by wizards even more)

>>52462374
>Buff strength
More heavy-armor classes. Make heavy armor generally more beneficial than just 1-3 AC points over light-armor or no-armor characters.

>Buff INT
Bonus skill proficiencies

>Nerf Dex
Reduce the number of classes who can get insane armor bonuses while unarmored or in light armor.

>>52462471
What's the difference between 1 AC penetration, and +1 to hit?

>>52462471
I don't like any of these. STR being used for intimidate is RAI though, as the PHB says the DM can swap the abilities at their discretion.

>>52462515

Absolutely nothing, I am a retard please forgive me. I still stand by my idea even if it was said in a stupid way

>>52462446

That doesn't make even a little sense.

Strength is pretty important if you actually use the encumbrance rules and bags of holding are rare (as they should be). A character with 10 Strength can only carry 50 pounds before they take a movement penalty, and 50 pounds is not much.

>>52462519

>as the PHB says the DM can swap the abilities at their discretion

You can basically overhaul the entire game on house rules if you really want, I'm talking the rules which are considered the default (otherwise why have the player hand book in the first place, you could just make your own game)

>>52462544
Did you actually read the PHB?

>>52462498
>Make heavy armor generally more beneficial than just 1-3 AC points over light-armor or no-armor characters.
How about giving heavy armour the heavy armour master feat's damage reduction, no feat needed?
>Reduce the number of classes who can get insane armor bonuses while unarmored or in light armor.
Isn't that basically just... monk and barbarian, maybe rogue?

>>52462567
>Isn't that basically just... monk and barbarian, maybe rogue?

Its pretty much anyone with 20DEX and light armor.

>>52462576

5+12 (studded leather) = 17
17 AC HOLY SHIT

>>52462564

The PHB says house rules are allowed and encouraged. What's your point?

Hey guys,
What's the verdict on mystic?
I have a guy that wants to roll one in our next campaign.
I've only skimmed it so far and it doesn't seem ultra OP.

Any reason I should not allow it?

>>52462576
17 AC is hardly insane.

>>52462596
If you plan on getting to level 9 or beyond, don't allow it.

The Mystic isn't very well made, and from about level 8 to 11 will outshine everyone else. Before that they'll be about on par with HalfCasters. After that they'll outshine Martials though Casters will still have lots more to do.

>>52462567
Also alot of casters.

>>52462589
It's not a house rule. It literally says that any skill can be used with a different ability based on Context, as determined by the DM. That's a RULE. No house needed.

>>52462586
0+18 (plate mail) = 18
18 AC HOLY SHIT WHY AM I A STR BASED CHARACTER WHEN THE SKILLS AND SAVING THROWS FROM STR ARE OBJECTIVELY WORSE THAN DEX AND I ONLY HAVE A 5% LESS CHANCE TO BE HIT

>>52462596
I need to read over it again but from what i remember i thought it was a bit OP. Has an answer to almost everything given the 30+ pages of options. Just steps on alot toes

>>52462567
Immortal Mystic would go at least 20AC naked with 20 DEX.
UA, I know, I know.

>>52462623
>5% less chance to be hit
With 20 Dex, which requires at least two +2 ASIs (racials included) unless you roll for stats and get 18 Dex, in which case it's only one.
Plus fighters and I think paladins can get Defensive fighting style for another +1, and then there's shields which not every class can use, for another +2. So really, it's probably more like 20%.

>>52462596
It's, practically, 3/4s of a Wizard.
They have a lot of options, but they aren't stronger than a Wizard's and they can't get more on their spellbook.
Also, almost no feat helps them, and familiars can't do touchstuff for them.

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>>52462589
As >>52462619 said, but this time with evidence.

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Here's to hoping UA Artificer (Alchemist) gets buffed, or at least given more options and/or flavour.

>>52462536
> what is a mule
> what is a wagon
> what is a mastiff

>>52462680
Pretty sure 9/10 DMs never use any load animals so cut him some slack there.

Question

I'm looking at the character sheet for my first ever character (5e) and she's a half-orc battle master protection fighter. For some reason her battleaxe deals 1d8+6 damage instead of just 1d8. Where did that +6 come from?

I made the character sheet under the DM's guidance, so I'm not sure if I was being retarded then or retarded now.

>>52462680

>what are stairs
>what is a dungeon

Is Orc worth playing? Or is Half-orc just better in every way?

>>52462689
1d8+6 to hit probably.
Damage will be 1d8+Strength modifier.

>>52462677
I personally like the alchemist aftificer, although I wish the dex save on the acid vial was con instead. That way you're not fucked if you come to fighting high dex enemies by having your two damage dealers work off dex saves. Also the automaton needs some kind of scaling hp or make it another subclass of artificer

>>52462662
dex-based fighters are better than str-based fighters, as much as I hate to admit it.

Dex has a bonus to initiative, is a common saving throw, and has many more skills than Str - that come up way more often than just athletics.

Put a fighter in light armor, a shield, and a rapier and they have 19AC compared to a fighter in heavy armor, shield, and longsword with 20AC.

>With 20 Dex, which requires at least two +2 ASIs (racials included)

Both Str and Dex characters will typically spend their ASIs on their main stat so the opportunity cost there is moot.

>>52462689
Younprobably added your proficiency bonus as well as your str bonus instead of just str

>>52462689
It should be Strength mod, but I don't think you should have 22 Strength. If you have 18 Str then +6 to hit makes sense (+4 Str, +2 Proficiency Bonus), though, and that would mean damage should be 1d8+4.

>>52462692
> implying mule and dog can't walk up or down stair
> implying they can't fit into dungeon

>>52462731
STR has PAM and GWM. DEX has no games.

>>52462731
Dex based fighters cost less gold to get good AC, but str based get that greatsword and GWM afor superior damage

>>52462696
It's worth playing if you really want your DM or party constantly thinking about killing your character.

>>52462680

Pack animals and vehicles only help so much. Just run through the standard stuff a rogue would have:

Studded leather: 13
Rapier: 2
Dagger: 1
Shortbow: 2
Arrows: 1
Burglar's Pack:
Backpack: 5
Ball bearings: 2
Crowbar: 5
Hammer: 3
10 pitons: 2.5
Hooded lantern: 2
2 flasks of oil: 2
5 days' rations: 10
Tinderbox: 1
Waterskin: 5
50' hemp rope: 10
Thieves' tools: 1

Already you're up to 67.5, so you'd need a strength of at least 14 or you'll take a 10' penalty to your movement speed. Even just your armor, weapons, backpack and waterskin gets you to 29—not a lot of wiggle room if you dumped Strength with an 8 and have just 40 pounds to work with.

>>52462191
I play with a group of beginners so I give them what's in the book. Rolled stats, rolled health, and half hit dice back on long rest.

I am weening them off of critical fail/success skill checks though.

>>52462466
Um, what?

Is this some kind of paladin/sorcerer multiclass? If it is, you should just be spending spell slots to use Divine Smite; it doesn't break concentration and it's generally better than all those spells with "smite" in the name anyway.

If you're just a sorcerer and you're using the word "smite" to mean offensive spells, you can cast those while concentrating, you know. The only spell that breaks your concentration is another concentration spell.

>>52462696
Orc is better for flavour I guess?

>>52462712
>>52462733
>>52462740
She has +5 strength so I have no idea where 6 came from. But yep, I've found the relevant part of the PHB now. It's so annoying how they split everything between at least two sections in there. The base damage for a weapon is under 'equipment' but what you add to that is 130 pages earlier in the character creation section. Thanks guys

>>52462840
>I am weening them off of critical fail/success skill checks though.
Not in the book

>>52462840
>I play with a group of beginners so I give them what's in the book. Rolled stats, rolled health, and half hit dice back on long rest.
Standard array and taking the average on hit points are also in the book.

>>52462843
I think its the stone sorcerer m8. It has access to a bunch of the smite spells

>>52462860
Yes but they already have the "nat 1 means real shit is about to happen" And I don't not enjoy them, so I'm keeping the crit fails to no really doing anything, but if they crit succeed, I have to explain that's not how it works.

>>52462863
Yes but this game is for fun and having the stats for fun is good.

Question. If I'm going to be using a halberd, do I get polearm master or great weapon master at lvl 1 as a variant human?

Do I forego an ASI at level 4 to bump my str to 20? (yeah, yeah, rolling for stats, roast my balls over a fire)

Finally, do I take great weapon fighting or tunnel fighter as a fighting style? DM said he would allow tunnel fighter.

>>52462884
oh they got infected by the meme? fug.

>>52462612
>>52462634
>>52462669
Thanks guys, it's going to SKT that caps at lvl 10 so I will allow it for this campaign.

Is it just me or are Ropers and Piercers not that intimidating? Like a 1 roper, 5 piercer fight is supposed to be hard, bordering on deadly, for a 4 man, level 6 party, but honestly the damage output is just laughable.

>>52462911
Polearm master takes priority cause it means you can bonus action pummel more. And forgo the ASI and get sentinel or something I guess.

>>52462960
Damage output isn't everything

>>52462960
>he judges difficulty by damage
>thinks players will only respond negatively to their HP lowering
Uh...

>>52462960
Ropers have a crazy high AC for a monster, but indeed the action economy of pumping out damage is sub par, only one bite means it wont be downing anyone.

But remember the difficulty scaling is meant for you to be doing encounters like this 5 times over. Give the creature three turns and he could down someone.

I never listen to the difficult cause I usually average 2-3 encounters a day, with really powerful monsters. I know what my players can deal with.

>>52462966
You think Sentinel would be better than GWM? GWM in tandem with Polearm Master is really powerful since you can still take the -5 to attack on your bonus action attack to get 1d4+10+str damage.

And would that outshine bumping my str to 20?

>>52463075
Sentinel lets you do attacks not on your turn. If an ally is hit, you get to hit the enemy who hit him. At level 5 you can attack with your halberd three times and then bonus action pummel.

Plus it actually helps your team cause keeping enemies still who want to run but are faster than you are very important.

>>52463075
If you are minmaxing damage output, variant human PAM/GWM and get the other at 4

How important is it to bump a paladin's Charisma to 20?

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>>52462960
>Ropers and Piercers not that intimidating
You know nothing.

>>52463115
Thanks. Sentinel will have to wait until Str is bumped to that sweet sweet 20.

>>52463138
Not as important as strength, more important than everything else

>>52463142
Holy hell, I just read that yesterday.

honestly, the end had me on the verge of crying.

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I'm getting ready to start a campaign, nominally set in the Forgotten Realms, and one of my players is asking what the major events of the last 40-50 years have been. Is there a specific year 5e Forgotten Realms starts in so I can go back and look at the recent timeline?

>>52463212
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide is probably the best bet.

What reasons would player characters have to come together?

So far I've been in campaigns where we're either escaped slaves, or generic "You're all in a tavern"

I'd like to avoid either of these if I can. Ideas?

Some questions about tomb of horrors but no spoilers please:
>What level should a 4 man party be at?
>Any classes that would be totally useless (like monk maybe)?
>Any classes that are a must have (probably wizard I guess)

>>52463318
That's something you do in Session 0. Let's everyone think together as a group. Maybe The fighter is a Wizard relative? Maybe they share the same enemy?

>>52462374
>Buff strength
Use and allow more strength rolls in your game, both offensively and defensively. Give possible checks for knocking down/trying to prevent knock down on high-scoring strength attacks, or maybe make push a bonus action to allow for more strategic play
Give heavy armour mechanical advantages, such as damage reduction against slashing, or change the effect of status ailments like stunned or prone to just remove DEX bonus AC rather than pure advantage
Maybe give strength weapons a flat +proficiency/2 rounded up damage boost?

>"Dex is superior" meme
Call me when dexterity can into polearms or GWM.

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>>52463422
Kensei Monk

>>52463318
One of my favorite openings is Conscription.
You all need to join the local militia, but no one knows what your abilities are. Lets you RP character creation if you want and is fantastic for new players.

>>52462374
>Buff strength
More focus on inventory capacity.
I'm planning on doing a dungeon crawler, and you can't just take a goddamn cart of gear in.
>Buff int
Allow easier int rolls, use investigation more (Or, combine investigation and perception to make the modifier +WIS+INT no proficiency), make int rolls important for finding various monster weaknesses. Include psionics, have items such as books that require a certain int to use.
>Nerf dex
Stealth is now 10+DEX+Something, there is no stealth skill you gain proficiency in, but you can still get a bonus to it with expertise. Same goes with athletics (grappling) and perception (passive perception), for grappling ability to be +STR+DEX and investigationperception being +WIS+INT, and as said a rogue gets +proficiency to one of these three 'combat skills' as part of expertise. So actually we can get rid of investigation+perception+stealth, but keep athletics for sports in general.

You could also make initiative become based on wisdom or something. Or dex+wis. But I'm not sure I'd go that far yet.

>>52462242
What's a "Nuclear Druid"?

So, my group is new to 5e but not to roleplaying, would the Tales dungeons be a good way to get a taste of what 5e is about?
Which adventures might help us get a feel of how 5e runs as a system?
Not Mines please.

>>52463422
Why would I use a polearm when I can hit someone from 120 feet away with an extra +2 to my attacks?

>>52463483
a meme build that involves abusing UA material to do 1500+ damage in one attack

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>>52463483
This + magic missile because the damage will increase for each missile

>>52463512
What the hell. How even... What

>>52463486
Mines is honestly the best answer.
Tales is all old edition stuff so it's probably the least representative.
I'd say go for SKT if you must run a module.

>>52463483
Twilight UA druid that multiclasses a level to obtain magic missiles, uses their twilight damage to boost the damage roll of magic missile from 1d4+1 to 1d4+1+Xd10.

>>52462374
Does anyone who plays Dex characters think Dex is overpowered? I have two Dex characters and they seem fine. I also have a strength character and they are fine too.

Both Str and Int are important you just don't get fucked over as much compared to Dex Con and Wis saves.

If you want to buff Strength and Int, add more creatures that fuck you over with those saves. Enemies with prone on hit saves are few and far in between and should be more prevalent.

>>52463520
Magic Missile is so basic but so good

>>52463486
Storm King's Thunder has a good rep for this.

And as long as you don't start with Tomb, everything should be a-ok.

>>52463531
Str and Int are meant to be uncommon saves, so that won't work

i have a question about the fey warlocks dark delirium ability

does it mean that once it fails its saving throw it cant fight back anymore and you can continue to damage it with it unable to damage you back?

>>52463522
We've been playing 3e, PF, 4e, Qin, Fate, FantasyCraft for a bit. That sort of thing we've run through many times already.

>>52463522
>>52463540
Does SKT require a lot of prep work on part of the DM?

>>52463512
Isn't it 1000 something with action surge not 1500 in one action.

>>52463479
>Stealth is now 10+DEX+Something, there is no stealth skill you gain proficiency in, but you can still get a bonus to it with expertise. Same goes with athletics (grappling) and perception (passive perception), for grappling ability to be +STR+DEX and investigationperception being +WIS+INT, and as said a rogue gets +proficiency to one of these three 'combat skills' as part of expertise. So actually we can get rid of investigation+perception+stealth, but keep athletics for sports in general.
This doesn't nerf dex at all.

>>52463583
Assumes Grave cleric buddy

If mass is created or destroyed by a spell, momentum and energy are by definition, not conserved.

The anti-magic cannongun works imo.

>>52463486
Out Of the Abyss is meant to be pretty good from what I've heard

>>52463583
>>52463599
oh yeah, I only saw the build where the guy has a grave cleric friend to boost his damage. my bad.

>>52463521
Magic missile is one damage roll (like Fireball). You can freely choose your target with each dart but all of them use the same damage roll (like how you use the same damage roll on every target of fireball)

>>52463559
>This effect ends early if the creature takes any damage.

>>52463607
Thanks man, does that also require a lot of prep work from the DM?

>>52463573
I've been running SKT for a few months, we started at level 5 coming from the starter set though so I didn't run the first chapter.

Most of the prep happened after the giant attack in chapter 2 but before Harshnag showed up to lead them to chapter 4 because it sort of turns into a sandbox where the players have a bunch of leads they can choose to follow up on. This happens again after the players reach the giant temple and have to gather artifacts from barbarian tribes around the north.

The attack itself also took a decent amount of prep too, and some of the giant holds have a lot more to them than the others. I ran the frost giant hold and there wasn't a huge amount, and I barely used any of it.

>>52463483
Twilight druid, multiclassing 1 level into something that gets Magic Missile.
T.druid gets a pool of 1d10 per level to add to a spell damage roll (max. half pool to one roll), MM uses one roll to deal the same damage with all the missiles (and is the only spell that does that), even at level 3 you can shoot 4d4+4+4d10 to a single target, enough to commit sudoku on an average roll.
It's easily fixed tho. All missiles now deal damage separately, but working from the same 1d4 (not the same roll, just the 1d4) for convenience.

>>52463531
I play mostly Dex characters, and Dex in 5e is purely mechanically better than Strength
>one-handed fighting on-par with strength
>ranged options
>initiative
>wide array of utility skills
>dex checks most prominent in the game
>armour only 1 AC less at max, but better up to that point (unless you're monk/barb in which case it's equal-to)

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>>52463437

>DM is letting me name my paladin acolyte Sanctimonias Pryck, or 'Sanctim' for short
bless this game

Do breath attacks count as spells for the purposes of features such as Aura of Warding (resistance to damage from spells) from an ancients paladin?

>>52463641
That is a big nerf to evocation wizard.

Easy fix would be to let harvest scythe only affect Druid spell.

>>52463660
lel so randumb and funny xd

>>52462411
PAM with War Caster allows Booming Blade for the PAM opportunity attack since Booming Blade uses the polearm. Not sure if that's anon's reason though.

>>52463673
No. A spell is a spell.

>>52463631
Thanks heaps, man. How are you finding SKT overall as an adventure?

>>52463685
>no fun allowed
also, what's random about it?

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I chuckle every time I read this bit.

>>52463585
Aside from the grappling including dex it basically makes other stats more important which is similar.

It's better to give people extra rather than take something away, in any case. Unless everything becomes a clusterfuck.

Dex isn't exactly insanely strong. You want a good value of it to start with, but you don't need much beyond that unless it's how you fight.

There are three areas you can nerf, really.
Firstly is initiative.
Secondly is stealth.
Third is dex saves,
Fourth is AC.

I suppose you could let people use strength instead of dexterity to determine AC (Muscle thickness, being able to push away blows) but it'd mean 20 strength people can just cast aside their armour easily for no-stealth-disadvantage.

It's a tricky one.

>>52463641
>>52463674
Easier fix is to make Harvest Scythe's wording reflect Lore Wizard's Alchemical Casting. Then the HS damage would be x(1d4+1)+HS instead of the current x(1d4+1+HS).

>>52463693
the name is unoriginal and fucking retarded, and so are you for coming up with it

I kind of want to play a tempest cleric to make some cooky old sailor that reveres the ocean and storms. Mechanically, I know if I come in contact with something immune or resistant to lighting & thunder I'm gonna have a rough time. However I haven't really played a cleric before, so comparatively: how usefull/less is tempest when compared to the other domains?

>>52463674
I don't see the nerf, Empowered Evocations would still apply to each roll, Overchannel would still apply properly too... what feature would it nerf?

>>52462866
Now that I'm reading it, it looks like the stone sorcerer is another gish subclass that people will play incorrectly. They'll ignore the thing that the class does best, in this case a full spell progression, and focus on the thing it's supposed to only use in emergencies, in this case attacking with weapons.

>>52463718
>what's random about it?
>it's unoriginal
ok

>>52463719
As a cleric you should focus more on battlefield control, and tempest cleric does give you many options in that regard.

If you're that worried about resistance, you can always take the Elemental Adept feat but I wouldn't take it over Resilient (con) or War Caster.

>>52463628
I'd say yes because there is a lot of choice. Once they escape the drow, their first choice is 4 different places they can go to. You also need to set up things they will run into while travelling to these different places. On top of that you also have a group of about 10 NPCs that have also escaped with the PCs, so you need to control them too

>>52462761
You can tell that anon is dumb because he says "rapier" and not hand crossbow.

Then he could at least argue Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter.

>>52463719
Not much is immune or resistant to thunder. I think like one thing?

>>52463740
The real draw is quickened and twin BB/GFB plus something like Elemental Weapon and GWM.

>>52463751
First thing I fought as a tempest cleric was a Behir, and for some reason the DM said it was also immune to thunder damage.

What a dingus.

>>52463719
It's alright
Don't forget you can use Cleric spells too against lightning enemies, which do radiant damage so you'll be fine

>>52463483
One who lives in constant fear that his enemy has Shield, negating his build.

>>52463777
>What is counterspell

>>52463783
Shield is a 1st level spell, cast as a reaction, that makes you take no damage from magic missile.

Counterspell is the worse option in that scenario.

>>52463783
>What is counterspelling a counterspell with a Sorcerer slave

>>52463783
A spell not on the druid list.

>>52463795
>You can't counterspell a level 1 spell, that's inefficient!
Uhhh, sure.
Counterspell in that case increases your damage from 0 to 1500 or whatever it is.
Sure, they only used a level 1 spell slot, but they're not even going to be alive once the spell hits.

>>52463797
>What is having your own sorcerer slave so they can't counterspell your counterspell
Though if they have a sorcerer slave they can just counterspell the initial cast.

>>52463718
Not that anon but why the fuck does it even matter about his name? I take it you are the kind of player that believes himself to be a prolific faggot for the ages fantasy novelist. You guys are the actual worst players their are because no one will ever be as original as you.

>>52463797
>What is counterspelling a counterspell of a counterspell with a shield guardian

>>52463719
>>52463775
Looking at it closer
>put on Spirit Guardians for 15ft half speed on enemies
>wade into group of melee dudes
>drop Thunderwave for 25ft knockback
>enemies need 40ft movement (+ however much far back you retreat), which most humanoids don't have, to get back up to you
You could really fuck up a melee-heavy line up if you play against a lot of it, and your group has a lot of ranged

>>52463807
>Playing solo

Every actually sensible caster will have counterspell.

If you don't have it on your team, you have a team of martials.

>>52463743
>>52463751
>>52463775
alright, thanks for the info anons.

>>52463734
Empowered evocation specify "one damage roll".

>>52463826
Really it's probably better to just walk into the crowd then use the 'dodge' action.

>>52463719
Cleric subclasses come in three flavors: pure support, fighter-like, and wizard-like. Tempest clerics are wizard-like. They can do more spell damage than the average cleric, but a lot of players take this way too far and try to play a purely offensive tempest cleric. They waste all their spell slots on damage rather than keeping the party above 0HP. A few really dumb people throw their tempest clerics into melee combat as well, often in an attempt to exploit Polearm Master in combination with spells that knock enemies back. This is a horrible idea. The way you should play a cleric of any kind is more conservatively, buffing the party when it's obvious a tough fight is coming and always keeping some spell slots in reserve for a Healing Word/Mass Healing Word

Not many monsters are resistant to lightning or thunder, but if you should run into something that is (like a shambling mound or a froghemoth,) whatever, just use Sacred Flame or Guiding Bolt if you want to help kill it.

>>52463748
Then he couldn't argue about AC.

>>52463854
What? Tempest is fighter-like with heavy armor and martial weapon...

>>52463769
Still a bad idea. A full caster pretending to be something other than a full caster is always a bad idea.

>>52463846
Don't forget you're doing 5d8 a turn for a dinky little level 1 spell

>>52463855
You can get the AC if you have a backpack full of loaded hand crossbows. Especially on a rogue who only makes two shots, but they don't need sharpshooter and this isn't fighter anymore.

Even so. A hand crossbow with CBE and SS does about as much as, if not more damage than GWM greatsword AND it can attack from anywhere within 120ft. Prone target? Just walk up to 5ft and shoot it.

And they get all the benefits of having high dexterity, yet they can probably afford 15 strength to wear heavy armour.

PAM+GWM+Sentinel fighter actually competes, however, and is possibly even better. If you can aquire all those feats.

>>52463870
Normally that would be true, but the martial weapon proficiency and Divine Strike aren't nearly as good as being able to maximize spell damage.

>>52463816
>hey guys look how funny my name is! xddddd
get the fuck out of here

>>52463740
But anon while hasted and twinning booming blade or grennflame blade you can spike damage hard and get 3 melee attacks off at relatively low cost of resources. Also you do have the option of being able to drop large groups of enemies with your full spell progression like Fire ball, cone of cold etc. You basically can martial as nearly as hard as the other martials, take the tough feat and you can have health up their with a barb and with a decent con score and a shield you have AC for days. All while being a full caster

I have a friend who really, REALLY wants to homebrew his own custom class and I'm very resistant to the idea to the point that I'm honestly considering switching systems to give him the freedom he craves to construct what he wants.

Are there strong arguments against using homebrewed classes or am I being unreasonable?

>>52463907
So what do you call your character anon?

Fighter 1 / new favored soul X?

I want to be ISEKAI PROTAG who can do everything.

>>52463978
Depend on his system knowledge and his personally. Most homebrew class came out terribly (just look at dandwiki) due to having no peer review and playtest. So it's reasonable to say no

>>52463978
I'm curious as to what class he wants to play

>>52463978
It really depends on exactly what he wants.

I really dislike custom classes when archetypes are right there for the brewing. See if he'll accept making an archetype. Its much easier for him to make and for you to vet.

>>52463978
Let him do a subclass. That's a far more reasonable request.

If he refuses that, I'd just say no. A full class is too much to balance.

>>52463876
Get out of the 3.PF mentality.

I bet you also hate multiclassing because you delay spell progression.

>>52463486
Storm Kings Thunder is a great vanilla DnD adventure.
Castle Ravenloft has some specific elements that set it apart from vanilla 5e - but it's great.
I've heard good things about out of the Abyss but haven't played or ran it yet.

>>52463956
While being MAD as hell and wasting a feat on reaching the HP every martial gets. And for what? For the ability to play a gimpy fighter.

>>52464101
Pretty sure they can out damage fighters for most levels of the game.

3 x attacks with extra d8's added on sound pretty fucking good.

>>52464101
>MAD as hell
How so? You can ignore Cha as you focus on buffs and smites which don't take charisma into consideration. Take as much Con and Str as possible and you're no different from what other martials need.
Stone Sorcerer are just as able in melee as real martial while they are full casters ontop of it.

>>52464019
I know he's not the type to create an OP edgelord class and he's not an idiot, but he's very new to TRPGs in general. Hell, I'm still fairly new to 5e so I can't say easily say what is fair and balanced either. Since it's basically just him making it he thinks its okay to just change it on the fly if it isn't fair in game, but I really don't want to be having to be looking over my shoulder for broken custom content every game.

>>52464045
He rarely browses /tg/ so I'll tell ya. He likes the idea of a hybrid martial/magic-user. None of the existing options he's really happy with.

>>52464050
I think even an archetype is a bit much. 5e has no tools for custom content so anything you make is an absolute shot in the dark.

>>52464064
I'd like to just say no, but I hate to be a dick if this is how he'll have fun. That's really the reason I want to switch systems. We like 5e, but haven't played much. If it allows him to customize to exactly what he wants with rules that won't make it a shitshow I'm advocating we just continue the campaign in GURPS. I think we'd all be happier with something like that.

Thanks for the input. Glad to see I'm not being ridiculous with my hesitance towards homebrew.

>>52464101
It's a marital that gets full caster progression to buff itself, rather then X per short rest features like other ones.

>>52464152
>hybrid martial/magic-user.
Hexblade
Bladesinger
Arcana Cleric
Any martial Clerics
Stone Sorcerer
Paladin
Ranger
Eldritch Knight
Arcane Trickster
Multiclass

This is literally the most catered to character idea in the things they're released.

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>>52462023
awakened is the thing that makes more sense, flavorwise but it kind of sucks, immortal if you are trying to make one of those mind flayers of thoon and want to crush shit up.

nomad if you are a powerplayer and just want the best abilities.

mind flayers are cool, shame no one will ever let me play one.

>>52464188
>>52464152
I would also offer Mystic as an option if you choose to play that way. It's not technically magic, but it's close enough that he might like it.

>>52464188
Sorry forgot some

Valor Bard
Swords Bard
Mystic

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>>52464152
>hybrid martial/magic-user
But there are many if you also take content outside of th PHB into consideration:
Bladesinger, Hexblade, Paladin, Stone Sorcerer, Eldritch Knight and the remastered Wot4E Monk

>>52464188
>>52464204
>>52464205
>>52464218

I know! But it seems he's gotten it in his head that he wants to design his own class for fun despite my insistence that this is not AT ALL what D&D is designed around. I think I've got to explain to him that what he wants out of tabletop gaming is not what 5e can offer and we should try a game that can provide the level of customization he desires if I can't dissuade him from homebrew. I'm thinking GURPS Fantasy is the best way to go if he wants to make exactly what his heart desires.

>>52463486

Tales works great, from what I've read. If you wanna mix other books in, you can do:

Sunless Citadel, Forge of Fury, SKT

Sunless Citadel, CoS, Tomb of Horrors (killing Strahd isn't enough, Acererak must be slain for the mists to vanish)

Sunless Citadel, PotA (Skipping straight to the cults in PotA)

1st part OotA into Forge of Fury, Tomoachan, or White Plume, depending on how long your players wanna stay in the Underdark

Sunless, Forge, Tamoachan, White Plume into Rise of Tiamat.

>>52464142
Keep telling yourself that. I've seen this happen before at my table, players who think they've found the perfect leet exploit to make a broken character who does everything. It always ends up as garbage in practice, plus the players get incredibly mad if a player's weird build doesn't do the stuff that the base class is expected to do (e.g. the time I was in a party with two clerics, neither of whom would ever heal a dying party member.)

>>52462798

Quick-release latches on the backback so that you can drop it.

Drop the ball-bearings and crowbar or make the Fighter carry his fair share of the breakin and entering gear

Replace the hemp rope with spidersilk rope asap.

But in general Str 8 thieves need to stay in town and be pickpockets not adventurers.

>>52464248
I've never played GURPS so I can't say. Make sure he know that no matter what he does he will never be as good at martial or magic as someone devoted to it. Also that refluffing is always an option if it's more of a lore thing.

If your DM allows UA, as a polearm martial class would you take Tunnel Fighter or Great Weapon Fighting as your fighting style?

>>52464248
I still say to let him come up with a subclass.

They only get 4~5 features at set levels, and you can compare them directly to the other subclasses for that class.

Also, 5e IS designed with homebrew in mind, but subclasses, spells, feats and such smaller scope items are what are designed to be made, not full classes.

>>52464280
Tunnel Fighter for fucking days with PAM on a Vengeance Paladin.

No one will ever allow that though.

>>52464280
I'd take Great Weapon Fighting, but only because I want the campaign to run smoothly and don't want to constantly be that guy who looks like you just activated his trap card.

>>52464257
Where did I or someone else ever imply that Stone Sorcerer "can do everything". The class has it's strenghts but its still a Sorcerer.

But the numbers speak for themselves: Good DPS with ranged and melee options, nice buffs and not as frail as you might expect. They still lack some utility and most importantly number of spells known.

>>52464249

>Rise of Tiamat being suggested ever

>>52464298
My DM said he would allow it. Is the moving after OA really all that important as a vengeance paladin? I would rather go ancients as it fits my character's personality and goals more closely.

>>52464305
Is it truly that gamebreaking? Eats up your bonus action on a "maybe" the enemies will come to you. If so I won't take it.

>>52464257
Stone Sorcerers lose is control and being able to buff allies as much. They effectively become their own wet dream for support but they won't help other people beyond a twinned haste and their Save DC will be shit.

Also lack of utility hurts.

>>52464309
You can play it, then. Just be warned that it's a steaming pile in ways not covered by calculating "dps."

Christ, I can't wait until MMOs finally die out and kids stop using their terminology in tabletop games.

>>52464353
Just multiply DPS by 6 and you have DPR!

>>52464335
It's not as gamebreaking as Lucky, but it does slow things down a lot, in addition to the usual polearm master's problem of requiring the enemies to come to you and therefore having to boss around the other party members to keep them from engaging.

>>52462044
Don't forget to grab PAM and Booming blade on it.
Try to cheese your DM into letting you dip a level or two into Hexblade so you only ever need Cha and Con.

>>52464335
>Is the moving after OA really all that important as a vengeance paladin?
You do not understand how amazing this truly is.

Anyone enters your 10ft reach and you can attack and move away. If they try to move in again? they get attacked and you move away.

You become un-attackable by any normal melee tactics, movement like a mother fucker and you can fight just as good as anyone else against archers.

>>52464353
If it calms your autistic ass, I meant DPR which is meant in the exact same way and also used alot in tabletop games.

Also from what you've written you sound mad because your players are shit and have totally wrong expactations of what their characters can and are supposed to do.

>>52464292
But for changing class options it just gives vague suggestions for how to do it without any substantial guide for all the things you need to keep in mind without cocking it up. I think my main hangup is that I don't want to be playtesting homebrew, but just playing the game without worrying about that stuff. So each level up I can just assume it works fine rather than having to analyze if he'll break the game or if he's accidentally made a boring unplayable class. I'm really thinking now that a new system is the middleground to make us both happy.

>>52463691
I'm enjoying it a lot.
Giants have a lot of cool lore associated with them that doesn't tend to get explored in much depth, and it's fun to see how different giants interact.

What ribbon powers should a Dervish get? I would like dervish as a Barbarian path, and looking at the official archetypes, the features go offense-ribbon-ribbon-offense, or offense-defense-ribbon-offense.

>>52464365
The party will be paladin (me), wizard, artificer gunsmith, and one other that hasn't decided yet. I think he's bouncing between ranger, fighter, and paladin.

>>52464373
Yeah, I thought about that but it sounds like a huge pain in the ass for myself, the DM, and all the players.

>>52464353
If it works out doing about as much damage as a fighter while being only slightly less tanky, while having much, much more utility...

Congrats, we've got a Rogue!

Are you saying Rogues are shit, anon?

>>52462374
>How would you:
>-Buff STR

Adding extra carry weight, adding extra running/climbing speed, ability to use weapons of a different size category at some point.

>-Buff INT
Skills...Particulary crafting skills.

>-Nerf DEX
Don't do this or you'll have an army of Monk, Rogue and Ranger players after your neck.


Maybe it would be a good idea to buff Con...Maybe make some endurance skills and the like.

>>52464402
Might I ask why you think a Dervish isn't just a Berserker or Fighter? I did some reading last time it came up and it feels like they could be using Strength as much as Dexterity and the extra attack and howling ability of the Berserker seems to capture them pretty well.

>>52464414
>sounds like a huge pain in the ass for myself, the DM, and all the players.
It is. That's why no one would ever let you do it.

>>52464439
CON is already good fampai

>>52463978
One nice thing I've seen done is that everybody gets at some point a 'personal feat' type thing.

I plan to do this, and it was done in my first 5e campaign.

Basically, everybody had a special ability that was definitely not in the rules. One guy got exploding dice because they kept using the roll20 roll command wrong and we stuck with it, for example.

But you could use these feats to personalize a character quite thoroughly. Throwing weapons isn't powerful? A guy can use their thing to make throwing weapons powerful.

However, I guess the problem with that is it's just a powerful feat's worth of material to personalize. Not an entire class. But making an entire class is hell, and you can make them realize the hell if you know the rules thoroughly by letting them homebrew then scruntinizing them on everything they're doing wrong.

>>52464414
>2 paladins
>2 cha bonuses to all saves
That would be so fucking amazing, +10 base to all saves
Ranger is kinda neat, an animal companion can be fun and party mascot
Fighter is just there

>>52464313
Im currently running hoard of the dragon queen and its going pretty good so far and my players are enjoying it.. is rise of tiamat pure garbage?

>>52464414
If he plays anything that gets into melee, be prepared for him to run ahead of you while you're standing around waiting for someone to come to you and occasionally get shot with ranged attacks.

Paladin is the best! They excel in all 3 pillar!

>>52464460
There's no way those Aura of Protection bonuses stack

>>52464461
they're both bad mate
I have a feeling you think it's good because you haven't tried anything else

>>52464461
Both dragon adventures are universally agreed to be terrible.

>>52464460
>Combining Game Effects (p. 252). This is a new subsection at the end of the “Combat” section: Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.

>>52464248
GURPS would give him the ability to use the rules to make what he wants, but then again, so does D&D. Whatever insanity is preventing him from accepting any of the options available in D&D would carry over into GURPS.

>>52464391
It sounds like you had your mind made up before asking us, so I'm not sure what you wanted.

>>52464461
HotDQ starts pretty strong but then gets boring as hell, and RoT remains boring as hell.

One of the main issues is that they feature a lot of overland travel, including visiting all the important cities of the Sword Coast, but there's absolutely nothing for the players to do while they're there. It's an extremely threadbare campaign. Maybe this was just my DM, but when we played it we got railroaded to hell and back, with there being exactly one correct solution to each problem that we had to guess before going forward.

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>>52464353
>You can play it then
Thank you so much anon for giving me permission to play the class. I wouldnt of played it with your blessing.

Does the Aasimar's level 3 ability seem a little extreme to anyone else? It's a hefty damage boost alongside another huge bonus. Seems like it shouldn't of had the damage and the Flight/Aura/Fear. Just one.

>>52464492
Haha, yeah, maybe he's just insane. I think he just desires for lots of customization which 5e does not have a great deal of. Hopefully.

>>52464507
I wanted to hear opinions on homebrew classes. Everyone is clearly leery of them without lots of playtest so now I know I'm not being unreasonable for thinking it's a bad idea. That was my main hangup and /5eg/ greatly helped me make up my mind.

>>52464449
Dervish conceptually always struck me as speedy and agile rather than brutishly strong.

Also, what howling ability of the Berserker? Intimidating Presence? I don't see the connection.

>>52464152
>>52464248
He'll need to be a lot more specific as to why the current offerings aren't good enough. I wouldn't be surprised if what he wants to do just doesn't exist, nor will it ever exist in the way he wants. I can't imagine there's nothing acceptable when the only known criterion is "gish".

Homebrew is for things like "I want a divine EK" or "Arcane Paladin" because those are specific enough that they haven't been covered, but are also incredibly easy to brew.

>>52464470
RAW without errata says sure, >>52464488 shows some tacked on thing, which might be official, and most DMs probably don't know about it
Even then if you can't stack that just have two different paladins, devotion and ancients gives that immunity to charm and resistance to all magic damage

>>52464488
What is this from? Is it an errata? A tweet from mike mearls?

>>52463319
Must haves:
>A Shadow monk with Altert.
>A high Int character with loads of investigation skills.
>A Tank. EK or Ancients paladin.
>Party face with extra utility so either a Swashbuckler with Sorcerrer levels or a Warlock.

Don't play these:
>Edgelord classes like conquest/betrayal pally.
>Anythin resource heavy like Wot4E monk.

>>52464517
Im just getting to the travel next session and hoping it should be okay so long as they interact with the npcs. Also the start so far has been awesome, i lived dming it and the players loved it too. I just hear a load of bad things about tyranny of dragons and im starting to get worried. Also a first time DM

>>52464595
it's errata

>>52464595
Our last campaign had two paladins and we didn't stack the auras cause that would be OP as shit.

I'm glad the errata came out to clarify it.

>>52464601
rogues work really well for expertise, reliable talent etc, thieves are a good pick

>>52464572
Don't worry about that ability, made a reading error.

The thing is, if I remember correctly you wanted to make their Strength features Dexterity instead. This breaks the barbarian pretty fucking hard.

Their main stats are Strength for damage, Constitution for survival and Dexterity for some more survival.

If you make those abilities key off Dexterity the Barbarian gets a huge Defence boost, skill boost and even the ability to used ranged attacks in exchange for... No loss except breaking stuff.

The defensive abilities make it so at level 1 with Dexterity attacks you have 18 AC, +5 to hit, +5 Damage and resistance to damage. It's way too OP.

Dexbarians are already a build for a reason.

>>52464601
A swashbuckler rogue could not multiclass in order to focus on getting their at-will charm. Levels in sorcerer doesn't seem necessary unless you want GFB+BB, and you can get those as magic initiate.
A rogue is probably also better than a high int character if they get expertise/proficiency in those skills.
Then the rogue can also get alert with expertise in perception in order for high passive perception.
Then I guess the rogue can take levels of barbarian instead to become a tanky barbarogue.

There, done, you now have a rogue who fills pretty much every role I 'think' you're going for. Only problem is it's a clusterfuck of wanting charisma, intellect, dexterity, strength and constitution and wisdom - .. Literally every single skill in the game.

I want to run a module on April Fool's day. There's always Tomb of Horrors yes, I know or White Plume Mountain, which looks fun. Are there any other fun things out there that you'd recommend?

>>52464666
isle of the ape

Why the hell do kenkus get auran as a language what's the point

>>52464696
bwak bwak

>>52464696
newsflash, most exotic racial languages are pointless

>>52464696
Because they're not deaf? They naturally know it iirc.

>>52464708
>>52464709
Keku languages are more pointless than usual because they have a weird sort of aphasia. They can't say anything they haven't heard someone say verbatim before, and the same goes for writing and other kinds of language. It's still useful to know what languages they understand, though.

Has anyone ever played a triton here. Never seen one played before

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>>52461854
>tfw 5th edition will slowly continue to die from lack of content and the team will be fired and D&D licensed out to Fantasy Flight Games or Paizo

4th ed best ed

>>52464730
Still it will come up in one campaign. Having the Kenku be the only translator would be reasonably funny.

>>52464736
I play a Stone Sorcerer one who activates Shell Armour when he uses his natural armour ability. I couldn't handle the fluff well so I made him raised on the surface though.

>>52464759
>bait this obvious

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>>52464759
>He actually believes this
>Aku's face when

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>>52464759

>>52464759
hey now I'm a 4efag but 5e's not dying yet

>>52462471
>AC pen
>% damage increases
how about no.

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Hey anon, your party/campaign theme is good right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FShc3zcLBw

>>52462519
Really, the 'use strength instead of charisma' fags need to get out.

The fact you're a big, beefy, burly barbarian means you have an easier time intimidating someone when unarmed than an unarmed wizard (I say that because a wizard can be pretty scary if they show of their power).
Charisma is used to put that beefiness on display.

So, the wizard would have a harder DC to beat than you would.
But you still use charisma.

I mean, sure, you might want to dump charisma, but then don't expect to be able to intimidate someone when you're a socially awkward sperger.

Do I want to get melee cantrips as a valor bard or should I be fine without them?

>>52464759
>4rries so desperate to prove their edition was worth a shit, they resort to alternative facts

>>52464899
Good luck intimidating anyone with your flappy arms and double chin. A proper boxer, meanwhile, can intimidate people with just a look.

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>>52464759
Starving for (you)s, have one on the house anon

>>52464968
>alternate facts

More like autistic facts

>>52464987
Different scenarios do better with different means of intimidation. Remember it's not just about being scary, it's about getting the results you want.

>>52465053
A bard describing is a high level of detail what he'all do to you if you don't comply or a buff tough guy looking scary with a sword

Which would scare you more anon

>>52465080
What assurance do I have the bard can follow through with his threats? Is the buff guy going to be the one to do it?

>>52465080
The one that can make me shit my intestines with a few words and makes sure I know that, telling in vivid detail what happened last time with a voice that makes my back run in cold sweat, or the one with the pointy stick looking at me?
Uhm...

>>52465080
I don't think any level of description can make me afraid of the noodle armed band geek.

>>52464987
>Wizard rolls 20
He demonstrates that, while he isn't very strong, he can do fucking wizard shit
>Barbarian rolls 1
>He seems a bit too shy to intimidate properly, more of a 'Uhh, right, I'm going to try yelling at you. Aah? No, I'll try a bit louder. Aaaaaaah?'

>>52465144
What if they have a gun pointed at your nuts?

>>52465124
He sounds very serious about it

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How do monks hold up in 5e?

>>52464987
>>52465153
Oh, and, say, you have a dex barbarian
They can demonstrate their skill with swords by juggling them about, catching them in their teeth, et cetera

Can we have intimidation using dex, then?

>>52465155
Still less intimidating than the huge beefy dude with a gun pointed at my nuts.

>>52465153
>>Barbarian rolls 1
>>He tries to roar at you, but his voice cracks and sounds like a 12 year old girl with a phlegm being slightly peeved.

>>52465144
>implying bards aren't more cunning than rogues

>>52465144
remember the noodle armed band geek can make you literally explode and/or melt into a poodle of your own internal liquids.

also, maybe just a knife making contact with the space between your testicles.

also he might know something, maybe he knows your worst childhood trauma, tells you how he knows you watched your father die a whore's dead while you did nothing. how does he know that? that's the most terrifying thought.

>>52465158
seriousness doesn't mean much. I get a lot of detailed descriptions about lot of bad things happening to me on the internet, or sometimes in person, and I don't really consider them threats because I know they can't follow through no matter how much the believe it.

First impression? Probably the big guy.
If I'm familiar with both? Whichever I know will follow through. Could be both, either, or neither.

>>52465161
everything can function to some measure of success in 5e but they have some evident design issues.

>>52465219
How so? Would you elaborate?

>>52465161
Alright outside of Way of the Four Elements.

Mobile, decent damage, the main thing they bring to the table is their disables between Stunning Fist and Open Hand Technique. Shadow Monks are Ninjas, but need to MC to play out their full potential.

But the fact that they're not at all feat or gear dependent makes them rather boring to build.

>>52465180
i don't know you but an old mafia boss asking me shit would be a lot more intimidating than a beefcake that can barely speak the language.

there's a difference between knowing this is fucking business, and just outright violence. people die easily to violence, people suffer intensely to business.

>>52464517
I found using both as part of a hexcrawl works better.

>>52462860
>>52462884
DMG242 You can keep the correct 'doesn't auto fail/succeed' but instead impose extra fail and extra success on ability checks or saving throws.

>>52465230
they don't get full martial ac or damage but get lots of mobility and some utility, the subclasses are ok but some more than others have very intense competition for the bonus action and ki point usages and availability.

their short rest dependency means that they won't get their full potential depending on the pacing of the campaign, as many groups don't use or get changes to short rest.

also the stun is their best ability by far, but it takes a while to get it.

>>52465171
That sounds more like it'd be a Dexterity (Performance) check.

>>52465171
What is a performance check?

>>52465350
It'd be intimidation, but you'd require proficiency in acrobatics or performance. Probably. Or performance, but you require proficiency in intimidation or acrobatics. Or acrobatics, but you require proficiency in either intimidation or performance.

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LOL

>ITT skinny nerds are trying to prove that skinny nerds can be scary
Try lifting.

>>52465374
In the same way a barbarian trying to intimidate someone by displaying their muscles and yelling and all that is performance.

So what we get from this is realizing that intimidation isn't about 'LOOK AT MY BEEFY MUSCLES' but instead interrogation.

>>52465395
>ITT a skinny nerd who's scared of people who lift because they have big muscles even though the only time that matters is when they're going to get their ass busted by the police, and you can literally just run away and laugh.
Yeah, right.

>>52465395
I do lift, and that isn't really relevant right now

>>52465428 haven't these people ever heard the saying "the pen is mightier than the sword"

>>52465428
>In the same way a barbarian trying to intimidate someone by displaying their muscles and yelling and all that is performance.
It's not. You have very big problems with reading comprehension and context comprehension if you truly think this.

>>52465428
I was joking m8, didnt require the explanation. Just pointing out that the paticular skill he wanted to perform would be performance check as opposed to a regular intimidation check but thank you for your time anon

>>52465472
You're using your voice. Performance, much like singing.
You're trying to show off how strong you are. Performance, much like, say, wrestling.
You're trying to convey a message of 'If you fight me, I'll crush you.' Can likely include all sorts of gestures, trying to yell across the message and so forth.

Compared to intimdation in a dark room where you're torturing someone for information, where all yelling at them endlessly is going to do is going to hurt their ears and make them phase you out whereas if you took a more silent, psychological approach you could have them listening to all the bad shit that's going to happen to them.

>>52465464
>the pen is mightier then the sword
Remember kids if you pick a pen as your dueling weapon youre gonna die

How do I valor bard?

>>52465550
By crossing out Valor and writing in lore

>>52465550
There are literally no significant choices until 10th level. How are you having problems?

>>52465547
But we aren't talking about fighting we're talking about intimidation

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Would taking str over charisma as a valor bard work, or am I just asking for a bad time?

>>52462798
Everything on the backpack and extra weapon should be on pack animal.

>>52465530
Are you purposefully being retarded, or do you really truly not comprehend the subject matter?

>>52465395
Buff dudes aren't scarier than scrawny guys with guns (or, for fantasy settings, scrawny guys with magic).
Plus, not every form of intimidation is a threat of violence. Ruining reputations, legal threats etc are intimidation too.
Also a beefy halfling probably won't scare an adult dragon, but a powerful wizard might.

>>52465586
I don't know, you're not making any case why I'm wrong. For all I know you don't have any case at all.

>>52465581
Why wouldnt you be dexing with a rapier?

>>52465581
Do you want to be a grappler?

>>52465568
That is the problem. It look suoer boring compare to lore.

>>52465594
expecially when that wizard can turn into a dragon

>>52465144
I mean, that band geek can say words and make your brain melt and your body lose all strength, or you can lose consciousness and find yourself cooking and eating your own parents and children when you regain consciousness, so...

I mean, getting beaten to a pulp is scary, yeah, but real torture experts don't really do that much physical damage anyway.

>>52465581
The only real purpose of this is for grappling (You get expertise in athletics) and even then that's questionable since you won't be too survivable at close range and sometimes you can just use spells to achieve the same effects.

So if you want to be a barbarogue but much less tanky but spellcasting, sure.

I think bard probably has more charisma-dependent spells than wizard has intellect-dependent spells.

>>52465581
There is a few option...
Take heavy armor feat to fix your AC.
Take expertise on atheletic and shield master, so you can make people prone all take.
Take PAM + GWM and go to town like other martials.

>>52465464
Unless you're going to shove this pen into my eye or something, I'm not really intimidated.

>>52465606
Since you don't see how what you're "arguing" is something nobody is talking about (and also wrong at that), we can confirm that you are indeed not purposefully being retarded and that you really can't comprehend what we were talking about.

Read the chain again and try again when you understand what "Using a different ability score with a proficiency" means.

>>52465646
I wonder if you keep repeating something like this when you're getting swirlies.
>Y-y-y-your muscles are meaningless! Be afraid of my charisma!

>>52465658
Well did I tell you what happened to the last guy who said that. Too bad he can't tell you himself.

>>52465395
And next you are going to say a lich isn't scary at all because it's literally skins and bones.

>>52465550

Focus on DEX, grab a Bow, grab Swift Quiver at 10th, shoot 4 times per round.
Focus on DEX, grab a shield and a rapier, be a crappy gish. Don't do this.
Focus on STR, grab a shield, any one-handed weapon and Shield Master, and knock them down before skewering them.

Is it possible to make a real fighting wizard (not refluff) without being shit? I was thinking starting as fighter and then after 1 or 2 levels multiclassing into wizard and staying with that. Then focusing my repertoire of spells on stuff with no checks/utility that enhance the ability to fight. Or is the drastically increased spell list not worth it and I should just go EK?

>>52465698
>bones
>not spooky

>>52465693
Real scary, nerd. Hey, stop hitting yourself!

>>52465668
But I was the one in the reply chain.

>>52465681
Dude, this is DnD.
A lich has NO muscles, whatsoever.
Who's more intimidating, a level 1 barbarian with 17 strength or a lich with , what, 8 strength?

>>52465753
probably the super powerful lich

>>52465753
Oh, I don't know. What's scarier - a gigantic hulk made of muscles and rage, or a little wimp with noodle arms, who squeaks about he's so charismatic, he'll scare you out of your pants?

>>52465753
>>52465681
Oh, and if you say 'but that's a monster, it's different'

How about a level 20 rogue with 8 strength compared to a level 1 barbarian?


In DnD, muscles are simply one form of power, and an attempt to be basically a monster but worse because you'll never be as strong as a large 20 strength creature.

>>52465753
>Who's more intimidating, a level 1 barbarian with 17 strength or a lich with , what, 8 strength?
Neither, they have no need to be trained in it and charisma is their dump stat

>>52465739
How can you hit me when you are held

Talking is a free action you dolt

Bard will likely roll higher initiative

>>52465703
Sure. Sorcerer does it better, but if you take Abjuration you can make up for your shit hit die with the ward.

The problem is that your damage is going to be bad. Lots of utility from being a wizard, of course, but even with GFB/BB, you just won't have good damage output for lack of Extra Attack.

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>>52465791

>>52465813
I can't hear you over all those bubbling noises. Hey, maybe if I dunk you deeper into the toilet, you'll speak clearly!

>>52465753
>But I was the one in the reply chain.
Then you've gone astray. You don't combine proficiency bonuses to make a mega check. You don't ask for a different AB to apply to a proficiency check and then describe a situation that doesn't make sense.

You describe or roleplay something. If you or the DM then feels that a different AB would fit that proficiency check better, they can ask you to use that AB for it instead. For example: If you say you try to intimidate the soldier by flexing your muscles menacingly with your 6 str, the DM can ask you to use your str bonus instead of your chr bonus. If you try to swim a very long distance, your DM can ask you to make a Con (Athletics) check instead. etc.

>>52465838
>implying a strength based character passed a wis save

>>52465789
You aren't answering the question, which one is scarier - a barbarian that can barely talk and occasionally loses to a bear in one-on-one combat, or a lich?

>>52465456
>implying big muscles aren't a bonus to IRL seduction rolls with the majority of eligible females

>>52465888
>implying bards don't get the most puss of any class

>>52465901
>Implying big muscles can't just take all the puss they want by force

>>52465939
>Implying suggestion can't do that too

>>52465939
rape doesn't count as getting pussy, getting pussy involves consent
rape is taking pussy

>>52465618
It's for swinging a sword or shooting a bow and being a bard at the same time.

Plus it's one of the few ways to get 2 attacks and greater invisibility before 10.

>>52465888
Honestly women usually like more of a swimmer's body than the bodybuilder look.

Friendly reminder that war gets the most puss of all.

Either that or herding cats.

>>52465901
>implying druids aren't the true pussy grabbing champions

>>52465791
Pretty much true, though you're still going to be scared of the thing you know is more powerful without intimidation.

>>52465789
Yeah, the one that can kill you just by saying 'lol, you dead now' as opposed to the one that can get really angry and thump you with his fists if you don't just run away.


>>52465855
The point was somebody said 'Well, wouldn't that be a performance check?' to which the reply is 'You could call the barbarian's performance a performance check, so you might as well say it's intimidation.'

The deal with using strength instead is that strength isn't what you're using to intimidate. Strength is the goods, and you're using intimidate to sell the goods. You don't use dex (tool proficiency) to sell a sword, you use charisma. Of course, it's easier to sell a good sword than a bad sword.

>>52465982
As a druid player I do agree