/exg/ - Exalted General

>>52457917
Sometime next month. Who can tell when though, it might be early so this and the arms are back to back both as a way to show they're serious about the whole previews thing and also to keep excitement up with such a drought, or on the other hand they might step back and do around the middle of each month.

Realtalk: what are the chances Vance and Minton dump the charm bloat model and keep trees for future Exalts down to like 10 but double costs for Charms?

>>52458035
None because they know better than to write shit charm sets like that.

>>52458035

Not happening. I can't be assed to go back through the Ask the Devs thread but I think they already said they were not doing that.

Feel free to go through and read it yourself

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/1069023-ask-the-devs

>>52458071
They did say that they were going to make the DB charmset at least not AS big as the Solar one, but it's unlikely to be a massively dramatic reduction. It's not going to be like half the size, at least.

>>52458195

Make a sane Craft charmset. Aggregate charm count reduced by 30. Promise kept.

Maybe we've been coming at charm bloat in the wrong direction.

Maybe Ex3 should just be billed as a fiddly dice rolling and math game with tertiary story and characters. It would explain why so much of the book was devoted to extremely similar ways to nudge the outcome of actions a few percentages one way or another, rather than rules that would allow the entire gamut of character archetypes to be played this decade.

>>52458600
Niceme.me

>>52458035
I hope the answer is 'zero', because the current Charm model is okay. The Solar Charmset could use some pruning, but does not require a complete overhaul.

>>52458821
I'm interested to see what the differences are at all now that an entirely new group of people will have to be writing the charms.

>>52458900
One thing I hope is that they' ll cut down on needless fluff in Charm texts. Not that they'll remove fluff entirely, because it has its lace, but in some Charms in the core flavor text just feels awkward.

>There's a thread on OPP forums where people are talking about the new book
>Rich gets all butt hurt because someone mentioned they liked the old Meso-American design for the glyphs than the new ones he cobbled together

Christ, does everyone who touches Exalted turn into a fucking drama queen?

>>52459138
He's still fucking posting too. Jesus christ I don't even think Holden or Morke would have gotten that booty bazooka'd over a comment like that.

>>52459454
My god, I knew that Holden and Morke were the fucking scum of the earth, but I had no idea their boss was just as much of a fuckwit.

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>>52459138
>3E has buttfucked the lore beyond recognition from previous editions with all of the changes
>people complaining when the faux-Mayan/Incan alphabet is changed

Of all the stuff to whine about, this is probably the least important by a long shot.

>>52460480
The thing is it was an *extremely* mild complaint. Like, not even really a complaint, more a neutrally-toned expression of personal preference.

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>>52460563

Well, official forums are always shitholes. Even the worst of 4chan pales in comparison to the autistic madness that dwells within official forums. I mean, I liked the weird little Mayan/Incan faux alphabet, but it changing after so much other stuff has-And a lot of it for no real reason-And then bothering to sperg out over it, is just...Weird.

When you all make evocations for your weapons/armor, how do you phrase them? Do you name your character in the text? Do you add fluff even if the only people the only people that'll ever read them are you and the ST? I ask because I'm not sure if I feel like I'm doing them right in that they seem to feel awkward to me after I've put them down and not looked at them for a while.

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>>52460601

Add fluff relevant to whatever. Is it a lava sword? Make it shoot lava dicks at someone. Is it a forverial sharp super sharp razor blade? Make it leave minor cuts in the scenery (grass, leaves, whatever) within a small radius of every swing or something.

Don't just go "The sword does X and thats it". You don't have to go overboard either, just pick a theme and run with it.

>>52460629
So should I keep most of the fluff in the initial description of the weapon?

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>>52460704

A bit in the opening description, and a bit as appropriate for each charm. Thats how I'd do it anyway.

I'd also write the weapon without referring to your character, since, y'know. It is a weapon. It might end up in someone elses hands.

>>52460720
I referred to it as the wielder in the description and as the Solar in the evocations as someone who's not a Solar won't have as powerful evocations and even then most Solars will have evocations that are different because of that whole flimflam where artifact weapons have different but similar powers for different Solars.

Who's excited for Exigents?

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>>52460857

If I had to be honest, I wouldn't be excited for them for a while. I'd rather see, in order:

Dragonblooded, because we need the primary antagonists first and foremost.

Lunars, because they need a complete fucking rewrite-Again!-And I'd honestly rank them as needing a new book more than anyone else, but DB's have to come first because it's more important to game health to have DB's, the most numerous and most often "The bad guy" Exalts get their book first.

Gods/Demons/Spirits book because they're all more numerous than anything else and can serve all sorts of roles, from mentor to monster of the week, and serve a bunch of functions for just about anyone, from PC to NPC.

Sidereals, because we need the secondary antagonists, and because their Charm set has been a mess for 2 editions now, much like Lunars.

And then finally Exigents. And they only rank higher than the remaining few because Abyssals you can just mirror Solar Charms for as an easy cribbing to use them until they get a book, Autobots basically got removed from the setting thanks to the fucktarded writers, and Infernals just really aren't something a lot of games are going to deal with because they're the least numerous Exalt's and because they just aren't that important far as the game is concerned in terms of "This needs an update NOW".

>>52460563

Wow. That is some serious, A-grade butt-hurt going on there. For those that want to see the performance, the show starts here: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/1070312-i-got-my-book-it-s-super-fancy-and-i-can-t-read-the-cover?p=1070998#post1070998

Just be careful not to post an opinion in a thread not explicitly designated for such, or you'll be accused of thread-crapping by the head of the company.

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>>52460956
>head of the company damn near outright stating criticism is banned to prevent people from having hurt feelings

Thats the most honest thing I've ever seen in relation to official forums being a hugbox where criticism is unwanted. It takes a lot of balls and little brains to admit it. It's also fucking horrifying, for a ton of reasons.

>>52461016
If Holdorke had a similar policy during playtesting, that would explain some things.

>>52461016
>>52460956
As someone who lurks on the OPP forums a lot and doesn't have a problem with them in general, even I have to admit that Rich is being kind of ridiculous there. Although he did seem to readjust his position afterwards while talking with Blaque.

I mean it's not like someone was saying they prefered someone else's work over his or anything. He did the previous Old Realm alphabet too.

>>52461378
>Although he did seem to readjust his position afterwards while talking with Blaque.

He did, yeah, so fast that I now kind of wonder if he doesn't have a mild bipolar disorder.

>>52461396

Or someone in meatspace tapping him on the shoulder when they realise he's lost it.

>>52461396
I don't know, that doesn't seem reasonable. Considering the nature of forum discussions, I think he probably had the time to have a cup of tea, eat something, listen to some Vulfpeck or whatever and came back a lot less annoyed at the whole thing.

Or maybe this is him saving face.

I don't think any fool that changes their mind on the internet is bipolar.

>>52461454
>I don't think any fool that changes their mind on the internet is bipolar.

You're *probably* right, I was just taken aback by the abrupt 180.

Hey guys. I am new to Exalted. My GM really wants to run an Exalted game but I have never touched the system. My GM told me a bit about the setting and how powerful Exalted are and sold me. He then gave me this fuckhuge book to read.

We came to the conclusion I should be a zenith but then I was left to my own devices. So since I can't currently contact him I figure I will ask you guys so I can focus my reading at first. I know I want to use a sword so melee seems like something to invest in. But I am playing a princess of a small kingdom and I was told there would be ways to not directly brainwash people but change the culture of the greater population as I see fit. Mostly if we invade and conquer former enemies and expand the kingdom. What we talked about was the ability to convince individuals or groups of people in a rally like or speech format but we never went over how to do it on a greater level. What ability should I be looking at? Is it even possible or do you just do rolls over time saying you convince people individually?

pls no bully

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>>52461631
>What we talked about was the ability to convince individuals or groups of people in a rally like or speech format but we never went over how to do it on a greater level. What ability should I be looking at?
Presence

>convince people individually?
Socialize

>>52461673

I would say Bureaucracy, if you're talking about gradually re-shaping the attitudes of a kingdom.

Presence is for emotionally-charged rallies and rabbel-rousing

Performance is for eloquent and moving speeches

Linguistics is for writing compelling treatises and manifestos

Socialize is for understanding the cultural context, motivations, and relationships between people.

Bureaucracy is for re-shaping large organisations.

>>52461673
>Presence
I thought that was more individual one to one. At least that is what my GM told me.

>>52461718
Bureaucracy? Alright I will give the magic a look over. Anything special I should be looking for? My GM just mentioned its good for businesses and figuring out how to sell stuff. I was planning on getting some points in it since I figured it would be useful for managing a nation but I did not know it could influence as well. Thanks.

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I'll be someone's internet bitch in public and private in exchange for a solo game.

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>>52461865

>>52460480

oh no. not the 2e lore.

So, in 2.5 are there any artifact throwing knives or something like that? Or any other throwing weapons besides the ones in the core rulebook? I'm pretty set on a character chucking knives and shit at people but I didn't want chakrams or giant boomerangs.

>>52461821

Most of the applicable bureaucracy charms are defensive - guaranteeing honesty in your officials, knowing when someone's trying to subvert them, deflecting hostile magic employed against them.

But, as a ST, if you asked me what check you could make to gradually shift the attitude of your population over time, I'd make it an extended bureaucracy check. But check with your ST - it's not explicitly covered by the rules, so it's more of a judgement call.

Make Strength Great Again.

>>52462346

Yeah I saw that. I guess he will probably make me use either Presence or Performance to sway people's opinions over time if there is no magic to do so. Seems kind of like a big hole in powers. Especially considering he told me that we are suppose to be god-kings.

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>>52462501
never going to happen

>>52462767
The only thing necessary for the triumph of Dex is for Str-mains to do nothing.

>>52460956

what a bitch.

>>52462524
The other perspective would be that you don't change a nation's culture through a single skill, you do so through a variety of reforms, and speaking to specific people, and speaking to the crowd, and sometimes avoiding a coup d'état or a dagger in the back.

So in this sense, Bureaucracy, Presence, Performance, Socialize, Linguistics, and even Lore would all be appropriate, depending on the specific time and specific task you're undergoing.
There are many ways to proceed. You can start by writing a Manifesto describing your philosophy (Linguistics) and encouraging widespread adoption of it throughout your administration, bodies of government and court (Bureaucracy, Socialize, Performance, Presence all apply). Make sure that all nobles read from it, and make it the foundational principle of your police force.

Finding and sponsoring artists that support your views and making their art accessible to the general public is a good way to start disseminating your ideas through the populace (Presence will help ensure their cooperation provided you summon them Emhyr style). So does getting the clergy in your pocket, and on that front, Lore has a couple tools that you can exploit (God Kings gonna prophecize).

War might even have its uses. If your reforms are too radical, you'll probably have to face some form of uprising or other. Even if they aren't, conflicts of interest that you cannot rapidly resolve through negociation might very well degenerate into violent conflict.

Don't forget that even if you're the God-King, you don't govern alone. The other Solars in your Circle might have things to contribute, and having at least some of them in official positions will only help enforce your position.

Depending on where you're sitting on the map, you might want to be careful not to piss your neighbors off for a while, so do make some attempt at subtility.

>>52462501

But strength is already great

>>52462524

Best way to do it is make everyone literate and then hit them with Linguistics. You don't personally have to speak and can just pump out books that constantly spam social attacks at everyone who reads them. There unfortunately is no easy way to make everyone literate. Although you could ask if you can make an essence 3 or 4 custom charm expansion to Single Voice Kata which lets you write things that are understood by all even if they don't know how to read. There are no real charms to help you. Pick up Flowing Elegant Hand as its pretty much the only thing that gives any use for this function of lingustics. Mingled Tongue Technique and Single Voice Kata you should pickup if you can make that custom charm as they will be useful if you conquer people who don't speak your language.

I would Supernal Presence and then use some of the Presence charms in your written instill works (basically creating an intimacy or making them care what you want them to care about). Presence is a damn fine charm tree and will work out well for what you want to do and is excellent for when you are not running a nation and need to work with other leaders or enemies.

Bureaucracy will help with running of your government and rooting out corruption. Performance is nice but I would not supernal it compared to Presence.

Does anyone have the 3e charm cards that is willing to share them?

>>52462524
From a pure mechanical standpoint, and before charms come into play, what is the difference between performance and presence for social influence? Is there a type of action that one can do that the other cannot? Do they have different types of penalties?

Also, can I use socialize for influence rolls?

>>52460947
>Autobots basically got removed from the setting thanks to the fucktarded writers

Are you really that fucking stupid? There's a picture of Lissome Avid Engineer in the 3e core you goddamn lackwit.

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>>52465236
>what is the difference between performance and presence for social influence

Presence is the actual talky talky skill. It's for most sorts of social influence. Performance is for doing a dramatic dance to turn their favor to you, or premade (key word there, premade) rousing speeches.

If you want to mess with or reform their budgets/body of law/etc, thats Bureaucracy.

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>>52465251
>he didn't pay attention to the dev comments on Autobots and Autocthon

>>52465932
Can you clue me in? I need to know if it is time to mourn

>>52465932

If it's holden and morke's I will laugh at you.

>>52465932
You mean comments like these?

"Q: Will we finally get colossi and municipal charms? (Mizu005)
A: This is a tricky one, because one of our goals is to make Alchemicals friendly to the atmosphere of Creation and less of a complete mismatch. In 2e, these things were never written because the writer doing them would have been unequivocally murdering the appearance that 2e was still about Exalted heroes doing mighty feats as opposed to "whee powers! I'm a robot/Yozi/whatever!" In 3e, we may be able to blend them into the setting by altering our perspectives a bit. (John Morke) "

"Q: So... do I understand correct, that Green Sun Princes and Alchemicals are non-classic, and will have less attention? That makes me feel sorrow, as they are high in my "favourite Exalt type" list. (Vi-Zet)
A: Alchies are my favorites. They are also peripheral and have always been peripheral. They were peripheral in 2e. I think they were still a hell of a lot of fun and got decent support, regardless. (Holden) "

Holden and Morke are no longer in charge, but they, at least, never in any way implied that Alchemicals would be removed from the setting. In fact they made it pretty clear that they intended to get around to writing them eventually.

>>52466535
The Exalted community has never let facts get in the way of a hateboner, anon

I mean that's why SV exists

>>52458056
Not sure how this is relevant to the question.

>>52458071
>Not happening. I can't be assed to go back through the Ask the Devs thread but I think they already said they were not doing that.
I mean, am I to take your word on it? Especially when
>>52458195
>They did say that they were going to make the DB charmset at least not AS big as the Solar one
?

>>52458821
>the current Charm model is okay. The Solar Charmset could use some pruning, but does not require a complete overhaul.
Could you elaborate? You think having so many Charms that require everyone to read the full text of the Charm to figure out what they're capable of doing that you'd need a 300 page volume just to actually reference them is a good model?

You're going to need to justify that position better, desu.

>>52459138
>does everyone who touches Exalted turn into a fucking drama queen?
No. But also yes. The ones who can walk away from it survive, but the ones who can't end up like Isator Levi, contemplating suicide over the change in developers.

>>52460374
>I had no idea their boss was just as much of a fuckwit.
I think Rich is very close to just dropping Exalted. Entirely.

>>52460563
>Like, not even really a complaint, more a neutrally-toned expression of personal preference.
It's an innocuous comment, bluntly. "I liked the old alphabet glyphs better" would not hurt most peoples' feelings. Except Rich is the one who designed the new ones.

>>52460857
>Who's excited for Exigents?
>generic rules to make exalt-challenging individuals
What are things that should have been in the fucking core book?

>>52461631
The answer to your questions is "Who fucking knows?" Everyone you ask -- including the developers -- will have a different non-committal answer.

The best recommendation you'll get is "ignore the social rules." Or, I suppose, better yet "find a game actually designed for this like Fate."

But as a matter of opinion: Performance for groups, Presence for individuals.

>>52466875
>I think Rich is very close to just dropping Exalted. Entirely.

He probably hates it but it probably draws in enough cash he can't drop it. I mean, what else is gonna sell? That Vampire shit? Does anyone even play that anymore?

Goth/Emo shit died out in the 90's and early 00's, respectively.

Since I released this in a joke format last thread, here's the non-joke release:

Creation is vast, mighty, and strange indeed, but do you feel yourself starting to tire of the traditional Exalted experience? Then why not soar to Heaven and above with my expanded setting guide for Heaven's Reach to take your game into the endless expanse of stars to infinity and beyond!

- Play your favorite Exalts in brand new an exciting ways in a setting that's strange and wondrous but yet familiar at the same time!

- Detailed breakdown of the Galaxy at large. Explore how the galaxy works on a basis for individual people before exploring the Lunar ruled Thousandth Empire and it's Dragonblooded Megacorporations to brand new Empires such as the Haslanti Union as they undergo the trail pains of being one the latest kingdoms in the vast expanse of stars.

- Visit strange and alien worlds from the Haunted Terminus systems to the Canal worlds where things like physics are more guidelines than actual rules.

- A chapter detailing advanced ship combat for spaceships, also including things such as vehicles, guns, and space fighters!

- Nearly 300 pages of material as I have no idea what I'm doing with my life!

Don't wait! Read it today!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OhCM-uzILa48740W-sR6TAKucqyUPsJOU5GNd8Fjzq4/edit#

>>52461865
Okay, what's your Discord?

>>52467066
I would like your efforts better if you didn't include the word "revengence" in the opening fiction. That made my eyes bleed. I mean, A for effort on the amount of work, but jeez.

>>52466875
>Could you elaborate? You think having so many Charms that require everyone to read the full text of the Charm to figure out what they're capable of doing that you'd need a 300 page volume just to actually reference them is a good model?
Reading through the Charms of your Supernal Ability and skimming through the Charms of a few other Abilities that seem useful or interesting is perfectly reasonable. That's not some Herculean effort.

>>52466875
>What are things that should have been in the fucking core book?
Not Exigents, that's for sure.

>>52467180

Oh did that happen? I'm sorry, I'll make it more consistent by replacing all instances of "revenge" with "revengence"

>>52462524
Mostly because its kinda boring and also really stretches suspense of disbelief. Like yeah exalts are powerful, but that doesn't mean do anything powerful. Even in real life if your goal is 'change how this entire society thinks' you're kind of shit out of luck. There isn't one single way to do that. It could be its own story arch, just like conquering a kingdom would be its own story arch.
2e had two charms that were exactly that, just roll some dice and now everyone thinks different, and it was both boring and also really didn't make much sense when you think to hard about it in setting.

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>>52467246

>>52467259
Your response doesn't fill me with the desire to look at your work, man. Take the criticism.

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Has the Natural Language problem been fixed in 3e
I haven't looked at it since before release

>>52467409

You must be knew to my works. I constantly troll people like this. Hell even right now I'm reading through the chapters in search of spelling mistakes. If anything I thank you for pointing it out, in fact if you find anymore more please comment on it in the document itself, as I say right now it will be *far* from the first spelling or grammatical mistake you'll see.

>>52461220
>Holdorke
This will be the name of my next antagonist

>>52467513

One is easy and fun to read, the other is a dry and boring slice of words and one of the reasons DnD 4e failed.

The current devs are doing mass errata on the boards for people asking for rule clarifications.

>>52467513
Even on first glance, the 'sane' version isn't mechanically identical. It's also a really skewed comparison because one font is much larger than the other.

>>52467535
Yeah I bet you didn't even know he always plays magical girl expys.

>>52467559
Yeah. There are plenty of places in 3E Core where Charms could and should have been written more clearly and concisely, but moving entirely from natural language to a dry, strictly mechanical description isn't actually preferrable. Flavor text has its place in Charms.

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>>52467559
>>52467575
Having to read through a paragraph of fluff to understand the mechanics of how something works is shit
If you want to include the fluff fine but you need to state the mechanics clearly or else you leave half your player base confused about how certain charms are supposed to work

Really a format like pic related is probably the way to go

>>52467277
>Like yeah exalts are powerful, but that doesn't mean do anything powerful

3E in a nutshell, and why Exalted has been getting worse since 2E.

>>52467658

Actually only ever done so once

>>52467559
Are they simply cutting charms out of trees?

That's the sort of pruning necessary.

>>52467697
Seriously, every single part of that 'sane' charm is wrong.

>>52467697
>top

Sane mechanics for a game, worded clearly and shown in a fashion that instantly allows you to tell exactly what it does, when, and how.

>bottom

The kind of shit that should be an opening fluff blurb, not mechanics.

Fuck 3E, I want 3.5E already.

>>52467783

And I clearly don't want those mechanics presented in such a fashion, as they're incredibly dry and boring. Only those lacking common sense would find such a presentation appealing.

>>52467697
>Trigger: Make an Archery attack
>Effect Create an arrow
But how do I make an archery attack without already having an arrow? Cause and effect are reversed here.

>Doesn't mention dice are non-charm dice

>Wrong reset condition (You can't use the effect at all until the intimacy is no longer numbed, not just with that Intimacy)

>Wrongly claims that Adamant Arrow Technique only works on arrows created with the charm

>>52467783
Exactly my thoughts anon.

Clear concise explanation of the mechanics of an ability is more important then the fluff of how that ability works in universe. You can have both if you want but Mechanics should always come first

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>>52467826

Then you need to fuck off, because that is the best way to present mechanics. In a quick, clear, concise way. If you want to read a goddamn novel with every Charm just to figure out what it does, congrats, you're part of the cause of Charm bloat, and why the book is so obscenely large.

>>52467874

This guy gets it. I'm buying a game for the game. I already know the fluff of Exalted, theres 2 goddamn editions worth of it, and whole sections devoted to it in the new edition too. I want a game that is easy to find a fucking rule for when having to look shit up mid-session.

>>52467760
>>52467856
I'm working with this pic >>52467513 in MS Paint
If the original was fucked I didn't make it I just found it here on /tg/

>We're doing the stop liking things I don't like thing again
Stop biting.

>>52467908
D&D player here, people like him are fucking shitstains who want three paragraphs, a thesis, and a book report for something as simple as "Your next thrown weapon does an additional 2d6 damage". You are not alone with these kinds of unimaginative idiots.

>>52467783
yeah 4e when

>>52457917
Why does this game feel like a shitty version of Dynasty Warriors meets God of War?

>>52467908

And you know what the funny thing is anon?

You're completely and utterly mute. A non-voice, because the developers are never going to do this no matter how much you bitch and complain.

So you have two choices. You can bitterly rage around in here while I drink the sweet nectar that is your tears and rage or you can leave and nothing of value will be lost.

>>52468004
because Holdorke were unequivocally fans of shitty fighting games

and pro wrestling

and i assume cousin-fucking

>>52468019
Personally I voted with my money.

As in OPP will never get another red cent.

No matter how good the products get.

>mfw the shitty printing company they got can't even manage to put books together the right way and some of the orichalcum editions are upside down.

>>52467697
I like how this is named Intelligent Design, a covert term to cover absurd and authoritarian Creationist teachings in amerifag schools. Makes too much sense.

>>52468019

Trying a bit too hard here. I already voted, with my wallet. The edition is fucked already. It's overly late, under performed, they just tossed and I won't be surprised if it's canned by this time next year.

>>52468073
*they just tossed the old dev's,

I gotta be more careful with my typing, oops.

>>52467559

>The current devs are doing mass errata on the boards for people asking for rule clarifications.

Is there anywhere that all of this is being collected for easy viewing or do we have to constantly go through the forums? Is it all on the Ask the Devs thread?

>>52468038
>>52468073
>Barely two minutes apart
>Same fucking phrasing
Try a little harder faggot

>>52468096
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit

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>>52468102

>>52468073

>just tossed it
>Still selling like crazy on DrivThruRPG
>Seven new projects announced

If Vance and Minton are fired then I'll say the project is dead. Otherwise you're retreading same old ground that has done before in shitposting and proven false.

>>52467960
Threads pick up, reliably derail + (you)'s. It will literally never stop

>>52468024
I mean. It's not bad. I like all of it. But as a married man at my age, I'm not sure what an interest in this really says about me. I am hooked and my wife likes it too though. I'll figure it out later, I guess.

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>>52468111
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit

Thank you for sharing this. I find it funny that olden once said that a reason for the various delays was that h didn't want to have to errata everything six months after the core hit, yet here we are.

>>52468352
I mean, not all of these are actual errata. I mean, was hitting battlegroups only granting 1i really ever in doubt?

>>52468073
>>52468038
Aaaw, poor baby! You're not giving them any more money? What ever will they do?

Singular individuals with bloated senses of self importance aren't giving them money! Man, Onyx Path Publishing is finished now! How well they ever go on without a couple of whiny grogs whose singular contributions to the bottom line can be considered "minuscule" at best, while they still have hordes of fans willing to pour their hearts, souls, and wallets into Exalted 3e and willing to rationalize even the worst changes as being good for the game?

Shit, they're screwed.

>>52468127
brutal

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SAVAGE

Now let's see how long it takes them to ban him

>>52468403
How about thousand singular beings, making no difference in their individul decissions?
You forget, even the biggest oceans is made of drops.

>>52468403
I must have missed the hordes of fans pouring their wallets into OPP considering they're always one book away from bankruptcy

>>52468038
>Personally I voted with my money.
This is reasonable.

>>52468038
>No matter how good the products get.
This is not a position any reasonable person could ever hold.

> under performed
But it's doing well. There is no amount of mental acrobatics that can change the fact that people are buying Ex3 and will buy future products.

>>52468492
You're barely a puddle. Maybe a pond, at most. You're not special. You're not some forefather of the revolution, or a voice of the people. You're a guy who has decided to stop giving money to a product he doesn't like, and acting like this is some kind of monumental, brilliant, and world shaping decision instead of common sense.

>>52468493
OPP has had bad books, controversy, and all other kinds of shit. And yet, miraculously, they're still here. I haven't even seen them shouting about bankruptcy later, but assuming that you aren't just making it up, which seems more likely: RichT is a doomsaying whiny cunt, or somehow every time they came out with a book that people said "Meh" or "I don't really care" about, they just magically received an injection of exactly enough money to stay afloat?

>Complaining about natural language

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't natural language used in nearly every fucking WW product ever made? Like even during their WoD megadays?

>>52468574
The last part should've been in reply to >>52468073.

>>52468403
>I don't understand economics, the post

>>52468627
Natural language by itself isn't a problem for the vast majority of people, using natural language as an excuse for unclear rules text is really what people are bitching about.

Even with natural language many of the Charms could have been written more specifically to convey exactly what the writer wanted, all without losing the fluff. Hell, even being consistent about wording when it comes to mechanics like reroll 1s would have been helpful.

Does 3e have a section in the book that discusses order of dice/success modifiers?

>>52468474
what an hero

who was this, so that we may remember their sacrifice?

>>52468735
I fully agree with every part in your post. I wish people who have an issue with unclear Charm texts were actually able to express their opinions clearly instead of going on about natural language, though. That just leads to arguments with people who may well agree with the actual point behind these complaints.

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>>52468574
>This is not a position any reasonable person could ever hold.
Sure it is. I just never buy anything they're selling again. I've done the same with a lot of companies. Ubisoft. EA.

They don't respect their customers, so fuck 'em.

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>>52468474

That guy is gonna get banned so hard his mother is gonna feel it, and he didn't even say anything bad.

>>52468781
Zid

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>>52468843
Plenty of people have said the charms are written shitty in this thread alone.

Nobody has problems expressing themselves. You're just an autist who struggles because you want people to behave a certain way and they don't.

>>52468844

Wait, are you the person who unironically wrote "OK Holden"?

>>52468611
I'm arguing for the guy who is not buying anyting anymore, I am not him, neither would I ever think of myself as the voice of the people, deeds are their voice these days and if those don't support my point of view, so be it.
Also, fuck you too, consumers have all the fucking power they need and noone wsnts to make companies bleed for anything as you imply. It's about the isignificsnt thing that is the self and the decision to decouple it from something and from that point of view it is monumental, but only monumental blog posting. If you don't like it, fine, there is a fucking X on the tab, you giant fucking cry baby.
Have a nice day.

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>>52468844

You can already see their reactions to their customers, with the head of their company going full REEEEE on the message boards over someone saying they liked the old squiggly text better.

Not that the current one was bad.

But that they, personally, liked the old one more.

>>52468897
Anyone who says a word about natural language when he actually wants to say something about unclear language has obvious problems with expressing themselves, anon. I mean, either there are people in this thread with just problems, or then there are people who actually do imagine that natural language is a problem and are therefore just plain wrong.

>>52468980
>abloo
Yeah, thanks for that reality adjacent talk, anon.

>>52468972
You can also see thei reaction to their customers in the way Vance and Minton have been answering questions. Don't go cherrypicking now, anon. OPP has its shitty people, and even decent people have their shitty moments, but it takes a very selective readings of the posts OPP employees have made to see disrespect for customers as a general trend among OPP.

>>52469032
Minton and Vance are just trying to save Exalted from the garbage bin. They've both made it clear how much they love it, so that's fine. But they won't get my help.

But the facts are staggering. I was told Rich was still refusing to give people refunds because it would have put OPP in the red. That's fucked up (and against Kickstarter's TOS).

>>52468474
A little to try hardy

>>52469076
>I was told

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>>52469032
>You can also see thei reaction to their customers in the way Vance and Minton have been answering questions. Don't go cherrypicking now, anon

It's more concerning the head of the company is acting that way, than the dev's. Dev's can be told to shut the fuck up or otherwise muted by people higher up on the corporate food chain, or just let go if they're too much of a problem.

When you're the guy in charge doing this, the only thing that can rein you in is yourself. Also it doesn't help Holden and Morke were both a bunch of retards before these guys got put in their position.

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>>52469093
I got my refund and then told my friends who sought their own. Apparently too late, because there was nothing left in the cookie jar.

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>>52468943
>So angry about a post on a Taiwanese puppet show board you can't even talk right

Man, that one hit you right in the politics, huh?

I wish we could go back to being dead. Its better than this shit

>>52469172
That you, Neverborn?

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>>52469172

Post some potential Exalt builds then. Post ask for worldbuilding advice. Contribute something to change the topic off of people laughing at the circus that is the official forums right now.

>>52469147
Laughly, my friend got her refund...and then got all her shit anyway, including a deluxe ed.

>>52469335
Yeah, so did I. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna throw it out. (I did reach out and ask if they wanted to pay S&H to get the stuff back. No response.)

>>52469301
Seriously, as someone who vastly prefers /tg/ to OPP forums, the fa/tg/uy view on the aforementioned forums seems to have very little to do with reality. The "circus that is the official forums right now" is mostly about new devs who actually answer people's questions in a polite and informative way, and about people making the most of this. The official forum right now is better than it has been in a long, long time.

>>52469301

How about some good, old-fashioned, tearing some homebrew to shreds?

http://howsfamily.net/Exalted/wiki/index.php?title=Perfected_Form

>>52469366
>Throw out free, expensive shit
Ebay exists, you know.

So how do you dudes keep track of all this shit? Also building NPCs seems like a absolute nightmare considering all the Charms.

>>52469374
>The "circus that is the official forums right now" is mostly about new devs who actually answer people's questions in a polite and informative way, and about people making the most of this. The official forum right now is better than it has been in a long, long time.

I agree, although *that* thread with RichT indicates that it wasn't just the old devs who were problematic.

>>52469404
QCs are there to abstract all this shit you know

>>52469385
>wishing shit upon other people
What kind of bad person are you?

>>52469462
One who doesn't throw away free money.

>>52469366
Heck I'd pay for S&H for that stuff, don't throw it out dude

>>52469301
How diplomatic is the Realm generally with its satrapies? I mean, full-on "we do what we want and we'll kill you if you disagree" obviously won't work, not on the scale the Realm operates, not even with Exalts. That said, I can't really see the Realm even making a pretense of a more-or-less equal alliance in most cases. I assume the answer to my question is ultimately that it depends on the satraps, but what is the general trend? How much independence are the satrapies allowed in practice? What is the Realm willing to do and what kind of theoretically undesirable behavior is it willing to overlook if that keeps a given satrapy in line?

>>52469366
Hey, if you don't want it, I'll take it. I like having books on the shelf.

>>52469484
Anon donated the refund to Child's Play. I seriously doubt they give a fuck about the money.

ITT The people who hate ex3 return for a HUGE party

>>52469506

So sell the book on eBay and donate that to Child's Play too.

>>52469506
Sell the book. Donate the proceeds to Child's Play.

Stop trying to justify being wasteful.

>>52469502
I doubt the Realm is very diplomatic with their satrapies in general. But each one is more or less administered by a Great House, so maybe you could look for trends in how House Cathak manages its satrapies rather than the Realm as a whole.

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>>52469374
>The "circus that is the official forums right now" is mostly about new devs

But the stuff here is mostly about Rich T having a stroke in the thread about nonsensical squiggletext.

>>52469381

Ehhh, I'm not a homebrew person, or I'd look.

>>52469404

By shorthanding everything and reading everything.

Apparently Rich doesn't have the power to close threads on his own forums.

>>52461996

I'm pretty sure there was a bracer of infinite magic throwing knives somewhere. Maybe in the Alchie book.

>>52469158
I'm not used to typing on the tablet and the charger for the keyboard is still at home. Larger texts tend to get obsured by the android keyboard making it impossible to look through the text for mistakes. This part alone took me for longer than it's really worth, so fuck mistakes in even longer texts.

>>52469621
I'm sorry, did autocorrect just stop existing?

>>52469502
Life in creation kinda sucks. If you're random kingdom in the middle of no where number 35 you have only such odds of living to see next year. Theres all the regular stuff that can happen, plague, invading barbarians looking to take stuff, natural disaster, hell a bad crop will do it. And then you add on creation specific stuff on top, fair folk decides those souls look tasty, yozi cult, all sorts of things. The realm comes up and says hey we'll keep you safe but give us almost all your things. On the one hand you sacrifice a lot of personal freedom, on the other hand the realm is now invested and is going to make sure to keep you secure.

>>52469404

Straight up making shit up, same as in every other game. do you think I have actual sheets for NPCs? Hell no.

>>52469404

http://loom.webtelligence.com.au/#/

Doesn't help Storytellers with NPCs, but having all your charm texts available at the click of a button is useful.

I still usually note down the aggregate effects andcosts of charms I often use in combination. Like: If I bust out all my Feat of Strength charms, it costs X motes, Y willpower, and gives me 21 dice, a full excellency, double 7s and a re-roll.

>>52469572
That is a good point, and one that leads me to another question. We talk about satrapies of a given House, but satrapies don't really *belong* to any House in the sense of one House having a permanent and unalienable right to govern that satrapy, right? I have a vague recollection of one of the books stating that the Empress appoints, or used to appoint, satraps as how she pleased, though they were always from one Great House or another. This is may be more of a matter of personal preference than canon, but did the Empress use to let one House hold the same satrapy for extended periods of time or rather hand each satrapy from one House to another relatively frequently? I could see reasons for either, with one House holding one satrapy allowing for lasting and functional routines and relationships with the locals to form, while changing things up relatively frequently would prevent any House form building too stron a power base in any satrapy.

>>52469696
Fair enough, that makes sense for most of the satrapies. I guess places like Chiaroscuro and the surrounding Delzahn realm or Harborhead, places that could actually hold their own against most threats that aren't the Realm, are exceptions.

>>52469647
Turned it of. I hate programs second guessing my typings and instead deciding a word that really doesn't make any sense, or worse, makes the wrong sense, belongs in the place where I typed something else. I'd rather make my own mistakes than have someone make them for me, makes for an opportunity to learn.

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>>52469795

>>52467081
Memette#2700

>>52457917
if a lunar is using ant and starfish trick and is killed while he still has bodies out, they die too right? a double can't retroactively become the original or something?

>>52469542
>>52469557
I wasn't intending to do much with it, but now I suppose I'll have to shred it, then burn it, and record the whole thing.

>>52470159
Nobody actually gives a fuck, anon. You want to waste your money, that's your business.

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>>52470159

>>52469381

Looks to be on the weak side to something compared to Dauntless, but overall not too terrible.

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>>52470318
>>52470349

>>52469835
You stopped talking to me though

So I just ran my first exalted game this past weekend. Its set in the west Heres the characters:

Ejar: Dawn caste, MA Supernal, Shining point stylist. Former second mate of the Crimson Ogre whos first mate mutineed. Ended up stranded on a desert Island. The first session involved his revenge.

Orange Crush: Night Caste, Investigation Supernal, Runs a ninja academy in Wu Jian. The rest of the circle thinks he's just a shop keep who got caught up in their adventures.

Harmonious Hammer: Twilight Caste, Craft Supernal, Wears black jade everything. Bodyguard of the Eclipse. Uses melee

Eclipse whos name I didn't right down: Eclipse Caste, Presence supernal, Silver voice stylist. Likes making men sleep with him.

Twilight: Didn't finish his character, linguistics supernal.

What are some good non-Solar charms worth considering for an Eclipse?

>>52470720
I dropped off the face of the internet for a couple of months due to a family crisis. I don't recall getting much interest earlier anyway. If you message me again we can work something out. Sorry for the lack of communication.

how might you go about making an elloge charm for infernals to make their text legible regardless of whether the target knows the language or can even read...does that seem like it'd be a good fit?

>>52470895
I am sad now though

>>52472311
Sounds like a good, low level Elloge charm to start off one of their trees.

So did 2e have any dice tricks or are they solely in 3e?

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>>52469102

Sometimes its best to just say what you think is right even if you are the head of the company.

>>52472311

Glories:UCS has a power that gave Conky the same ability, I think.

I swear to god If I win the lottery I'm buying the rights to Exalted. After all they're probably not worth that much.

>>52469597
"Someone please! Hurry! Shut this man up before he hurts my feelings more!"

>>52472788

Theres a difference between yelling at retards who want to shove people that, most likely, were not in that geographical area historically to fulfill some kind of agenda, and sperging out on some guy that said he liked the older thing better but doesn't mind the new one.

>>52472788
Except that guy is cool. Rich is displaying an emotional frailty that suggests to me that he might be heavily pregnant.

>>52469102
Kinda makes you wonder who's really at fault for the current state of Exalted eh?

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>>52473277

I'd assume it's a little bit of everyones fault given the situation.

>>52470447

I guess I tend to err on the side of weakness, rather than risking being OP. Noboding likes munchkin homebrew.

>>52470864

A version of Measure the Wind that's easy to trigger. Principle of Motion from Blood Apes.

>>52473607

To be fair, armour is really god damn hard. I've only ever completed one armour evocation set to date.

>>52469172
I don't even get to shitpost on a Scion thread so fuck off

So where do people find games to play in? I run a couple myself and I would just like to be a player. Do you mostly play online or with people or is this one of those situations where there is an abundance of players and few STs

>>52468884
Yep, he just got a two year ban for that

>>52474225
Online. I haven't found a real life group to play Exalted with since back in 1st edition.

>>52474366
screw rich

>>52474366
Well the last post he made with that account was back in 2015, so it was probably going to be another 2 years before he posted on that throw-away account anyway.

>>52472788
that shirt gave me cancer, holy shit, what a faggot

>>52472788
You know, I thought Vavra was being sensible to begin with, but his stance that it is literally 100% impossible for a North African to have made it to 15th century Bohemia is just as retarded as the guys saying there should be a bunch.

>>52474720
Eh, not really. It's pretty likely that it never happened. I agree that it ain't impossible, but Vavra is totally in the right there.

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カエルって虫を食べるんだよ

>>52472788
lol tumblerinas

>>52473150
what he said. the two are hardly comparable

>>52474720
If it'd happened, people would have mentioned it in the news or the writings at the time. You saw this in Spain or England or France, where people would wrote about Moors (people from Africa). But you never really see them being mentioned by writers in Germany, Poland or Bohemia, though you see lots of writings about other groups such as Gypsies. So it's not like it's impossible for people from North Africa to have been in that part of the world during that time period, but the lack of evidence would suggest that there really weren't any.

>>52472643
>>52472813
thanks

>>52472728
No 2e's problem was the inverse. By and large charms either auto succeed at a particular kind of task, or worked completely outside the rules. The former had the problem of both breaking the game and somehow making it dull as hell at the exact same time, as well as being the reason we have paranoia combat. The latter, or both really, made on question why even bother with the rules in the first place. 3e has charms that actually meaningfully interact with the systems they are built around making you better at them, you know like they're supposed to.

>>52475320
3e is probably the best version of Exalted barring its specific problems. That includes shit like godbound which is like Exalted 2e but with a base system that's somehow worse.

>>52476807
Godbound is closer to scion than it is to exalted.

>>52476807

3e literally fixed nothing and only added more problems.

>muh withering combat!

Overly nitpicky and bloated system with numbers that change far too often where you STILL manage to OHKO a person in round 1 with trival ease.

Anyone with half a fucking brain will avoid this edition.

>>52476975
It fixed literally every one of the common complaints with 2e. You can dispute this if you're braindead.

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>>52476975
>Defending "Perfect Defense everything and whoever runs out of motes for PDs first dies instantly": The Edition

Well, I certainly -do- believe you have half a brain, at least.

>>52477093
What about Exalted "Stack Fivefold Bulwark and Flow Like Blood to avoid every attack forever" 1e.

>>52477136
Even that was better than 2e though because even with stacked persistent defenses there was the chance that Plentimon would wave his ass in your face and you'd botch your defense roll.

>>52476822
>Powers selected from a list of purviews.
>Things like fire, fertility, money, health
>Even has distinct purviews for super strength, durability, and speed
well how about that

>>52477093
Are you aware that nothing in his post defended 2e? Shitting on 3e doesnt laud 2e. They arent opposites; theyre actually quite similar in their fundamental design choices.

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>>52474914

>>52476975
It did actually fix many of the "perfect or die" problems and many other issues that were inherent to 2nd edition. In introduced new problems, sure, but those problems aren't anywhere near as broken or crippling as what we had before.

>>52477427
>3e literally fixed nothing and only added more problems
Implies that 2e was better.

>>52461996
Literally just give yourself a light artifact thrown weapon and call it a throwing knife

>>52464509
Go onto the reddit, they're at the top

>>52477823
hes playing 2e lol there's no such thing as a "light artifact throwing weapon"

>>52476975
>3e literally fixed nothing and only added more problems.
This has to be bait. Maybe you don't like the way 3E solved 2E's problems, maybe you feel that problems 3E introduced outweight the problems it solved. These are valid opinions, though ones I strongly disagree with. That 3E did indeed fix plenty of things is a simple fact, though. It's literally impossible to argue otherwise without rsorting to outright Shyft-tier lies and purposeful misinterpretations.

>>52478330
>Shyft-tier

I'm probably going to fucking regret this, but literally who?

>>52478524
Friend of Earthscorpion, apparently

>>52478580
Oh, one of the TAW fags on SV, then. Okay.

>>52457917
Frenchfag here, recieved my book, map and screen! Everything was well packaged and arrived in a good state, and I ain't got nothing missing or weird going on.

Map's going on my wall right now.

>>52478876
Yeah, and one whose complaints against 3E were bullshit enough for other SVfags to call him out on it.

>>52468183
>But as a married man at my age, I'm not sure what an interest in this really says about me

Who gives a flying shit about that exactly?

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>>52478886
I do like the new map. I still have difficulty with the size of Creation, though. Is it too big? The Blessed Isle looks like it's about 4000 miles across. Surely that's too big, even with the remnants of First Age tech and infrastructure.

>>52478954
>I still have difficulty with the size of Creation, though. Is it too big?
It isn't bigger than the real world, right? I don't really see how it would be too big. The Blessed Isle is fuckhuge for one relatively centralized nation, but there have been fuckhuge empires in the real world too, and those didn't have Exalts, sorcery or spirits.

>>52478978
That map is 22882x11000 miles. Earth's circumference is 24901 miles, so Creation is very slightly smaller.

By surface area, Earth is 196.9 million square miles, while Creation is 251.702 million square miles, so it's about 1.28 times the size of Earth.

>>52470159
Please do.

>>52478954
>Is it too big?

It is too big in my mind. Depending on map's edition Blessed Island is around 4,000 to 4,800 miles in length. Russia is 4,200 miles long.

Now take in mind that there are only 12 big houses and how every single one of them has monopoly on something. Trade, naval monopoly etc. And army size is absurdly low for that territory.

For example, after assassination of Julius Caesar, Mark Anthony and Octavian had 19 legions while Brutus had 17 legions. Both also had allied forces with them. Later on Octavian, later know as emperor Augustus, reduced empire's legion size to 28 (there were around 50 legions before the reduction)

Now compare Russia size with size of Roman Republic around 450-440 BC.

>>52479388

Yeah the demographics for Creation suck. This is nothing new. The size is right though.

>>52479388
>Now take in mind that there are only 12 big houses and how every single one of them has monopoly on something.
No they don't. Some do, some don't.

>And army size is absurdly low for that territory.
>For example, after assassination of Julius Caesar, Mark Anthony and Octavian had 19 legions while Brutus had 17 legions. Both also had allied forces with them. Later on Octavian, later know as emperor Augustus, reduced empire's legion size to 28 (there were around 50 legions before the reduction)
The Empress' legions are only a part of the Realm's military might, though. The Houses have their own legions, the Guardians of the Realm rather than legions are responsible for maintaining peace and order on the Blessed Isle, and satrapies provide additional troops for use against external threats.

>>52479431
>The Houses have their own legions

Nope. Houses fund Empire's legions. Depending on who is funding a specific legion there is a certain degree of loyalty to that house but houses can't create their own armies. Empress made that thing clear when creating a power vacuum for everyone else but herself. even with Empress gone other Houses would crush the usurper who thought having a private was a smart thing to do.

>>52479519
No, Houses very explicitly do have their own troops. They are mentioned as far back as the 1E Dragon-Blooded book.

>>52479564
Although, to be fair, the book does talk about small number of troops, without specifying what 'small number' means in this context. The Houses do have their own troops, but not necessarily actual private armies. Then again the part dicussing the takeover of the Imperial legions by the Great Houses says that doing so freed the Houses from the financial burden of maintaining private armies, which kind of seems to imply that they used to have such armies. Anyways, the primary point is that the legions aren't all there is to the Realm's military power. Even leaving aside the Great Houses, Guardians of the Realm are there.

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>>52479428

Yeah, thats what happens when writers who have no experience with anything make up militaries. The Realm, even with it's DB's, could probably barely maintain the Isle alone. It gets a lot worse when you realize how much magical bullshit is floating around Creation that could crush DB's.

Then again maybe it's intentional, to really capture that whole "aristocrats infighting and having tea parties while they literally cannot do anything to stop their empire from shitting itself any day now" angle. But most don't attribute that to intent, rather than just the far more likely lack of knowledge of exactly how many people it would take to hold that sort of land mass, nevermind maintain any sort of hold on outlying provinces/satrapies/etc.

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>>52479388
>two dudes with GEDs don't know how to get demographics right
Anon, this is a boring can of worms. It should affect anyone running the game not at all, because if they want there to be 99 Legions, that's their prerogative.

What's weird about this is Grabowski, who nominally teaches this stuff at a college, made the same error to a slightly lesser extent. His Creation wasn't as "hyuuuuuuge" (believe me) but he still jacked up the demographics nonetheless.

Keep in mind I think 3e is basically a dumpster full of flammable materials. It'll be a dumpster fire soon enough.

>>52480219
>Keep in mind I think 3e is basically a dumpster full of flammable materials. It'll be a dumpster fire soon enough.
?
You mean the politics etc in the world?

>>52480305
Sure. But also the game itself. There's no way Minton and Vance make a splat with 200 pages of Charms. They'd be absolutely insane to try to push that on people again.

Which will likely result in shorter Charm trees for non-Solars, which means that non-Solars will reach their pinnacle powers faster than Solars (unless they make separate XP costs for non-Solars and holy shit let's not make a huge mistake twice guys).

Yeah. I'm surprised Rich didn't just announce Minton and Vance will be writing a new edition immediately, but it's clear they're looking to flush out the key pieces and then start over. DBs, Exigents, Lunars, Sids and new edition, with setting books sprinkled in between.

>Grabowski, who nominally teaches this stuff at a college, made the same error

They are still using similar numbers that they established in first edition.

>>52480219
>two dudes with GEDs don't know how to get demographics right

I don't possess higher knowledge than people who wrote Exalted. I know some information but those aren't something you can't find on wikipedia.

It would be autistic to ask and need information about how much is the cost of olive oil when imported from xyz region when there was shortage of it and also trade routes are under blockade so they need to take longer way to their destination. That would be autistic.

I just wanted for someone to look at information they put down, and see something is wrong with the numbers they did.

>>52480546
I kind of think it's a mistake to put down hard numbers when there is no particular reason to do so. Sometimes numbers are needed, and even when they aren't exactly needed, they can be helpful. For instance, I like knowing populations of places in the setting. It helps me figure out what those places look and feel like, and they also help with figuring out character's attitudes in some situations. Like, knowing how large th major cities of the Blessed Isle are and how large the Threshold city-state a bunch of Drgon-Blooded PCs are visiting tells me whether the PCs would see the place as an insignificant backwater dump or not. I'm not convinced that knowing exactly how many soldiers the Realm has is all that useful, though.

>>52480546
>They are still using similar numbers that they established in first edition.
No, they didn't. Your education level is made clear by this statement.

First of all, they claimed Creation was at least 25% bigger (it was actually closer to 130% bigger because they apparently don't know geometry) in 3e.

Moreover, their solution to the numbers problem was to simply not address it other than "previous editions are true." Which is just, well, demonstrative.

>>52480546
>It would be autistic to ask and need information about how much is the cost of olive oil when imported from xyz region when there was shortage of it and also trade routes are under blockade so they need to take longer way to their destination. That would be autistic.
Nobody brought up or addressed a like scenario until you did. We're simply talking about basic martial logistics, which can be simplified down to the number of soldiers required to pacify a population is roughly 1 soldier per every 50 civilians (utter pablum, of course -- as a mil log pro I'd say you need more like 1 to 15 for a restive population -- keep in mind modern mil log calculates force multipliers like fighting vehicles, CAS, etc into these scenarios). So if Greyfalls has a million residents, they need two Legions in Greyfalls alone to maintain order. You can see how this gets derpier in other places.

Not a huge deal, though, in the grand scheme of things. If you're running the game and decide there are two Legions in Greyfalls and they're in competition with each other, that's a cool setup for a few adventures. No problem.

>>52480693

>1 soldier per every 50 civilians

The Roman Empire had 1 soldier per 125 people or so. They also did not have demigods in the thousands who could take on a hundred men. Or magic weapons.

>>52480869
Realm could still stand to have several times the number of legions it has.

>>52480869
The Roman Empire also had significant force multipliers. Heavy infantry, scorpions, auxilia (irregulars). Besides, we're talking about restive populations here.

Or do you think we consider 10 18Xs to be an equivalent battlefield force to 10 11Bs?

>>52480950
The Realm also has auxiliaries, and, you know, Exalted. I mean, you are obviously and beyond doubt right about the fact that the Realm's canon military strength makes no sense, but the Realm has all the advantages Romans had and several they didn't.

>>52480693
Holy shit, you are a unkind person.

>>52480990

Don't forget client kingdom armies in the form of Satraps. They are not regular forces but still the local forces that would police their respective province.

>>52480355
So you just firmly have your head up your ass, god to know.

The charm count is literally fine, stop crying about it, Shyft.

>>52480990
I'm not sure that's true. It's implied and it may have been Grabowski's intent, but the way the game stages Legions they're more equivalent to Chinese regulars from the Chin or Han dynasties than High Roman Legionnaires in how they fight. It's not clear if they have substantial unit maneuvers, whether they're trained to operate in cooperation with artillery, if they even have native artillery, etc.

We have to look at Lookshy as the pinnacle of coherent fighting forces and they're light infantry centered around a smattering of heavy infantry and the Exalted equivalent of armor. No artillery to speak of, and their primary ranged offense capability is some archer auxiliaries.

Light infantry isn't going to fight in formations, but in skirmish lines.

Again, the lack of knowledge of the designers is apparent here, but it's not as troubling as the lack of basic arithmetic.

>>52481030
>>52481038
Irony.

>>52481051
Realm Legions are explicitly heavy infantry, not light.

>>52481085
Are we referring to first edition?

>>52481135
First edition describes the composition of a legion thus: "Generally, four dragons are composed of heavy infantry, and six of medium infantry, and there are bewteen four and six loosely organized dragons of skirmishers and missile troops". The Heavy and medium infantry would be the actual legionaries, with skirmishers and missile troops being auxiliaries.

>>52481176
Are we ignoring any second edition materials that might have contradicted that?

>>52481263

Not him but

>At full strength, an imperial legion consists of 5,000 front-line infantry soldiers (both men and women). The legions take no cavalry with them when they move out, which makes it much faster to send them hence and dramatically reduces the complexity of the logistics involved in deployment. If a legion intends to employ cavalry, it co-opts that of the local potentate instead.

Page 66 CoCD1

>>52481263
As you should

I am of the understanding that the PR manager and the art director were both fired early-ish in 3E's development. Did they ever hire replacements? If they didn't, why not?

So what do you guys make of this? Did he jump or was he pushed?

https://twitter.com/hatewheel/status/848215895948349440

>>52482276
Holden and Morke got cut off, they've talked about it on IRC. Apparently, they also haven't even been paid or even seen a contract for being paid for Miracles, too.

They've been throwing shade at Rich for days.

>>52482307

Well shit, that's just the nature of the beast I guess. Not getting that pay could really fuck them over. Got any transcripts? Doctor says I need more salt in my diet.

>>52481263

Ignoring a lot of 2E fluff is a good idea. Shit, 3E should've just wholesale C+P'd the 1E fluff. Would've been better than what they or 2E writers wrote.

>>52482276

Shoved out of the last helicopter out of Vietnam, screaming expletives the whole way, while the pilot gladly gets the fuck out of there.

>>52482452
My mom knew that pilot.

>>52461996
http://thor.divnull.com/pub/exalted/when-autochthon-dreams-1.1.pdf

>>52482146

>PR manager

There was never one to begin with

>>52460956
...how does he /function/?

I don't want to make fun of a guy with some actual mental problem or some kind of imbalance, what do we know about richt irl?

>>52482611
that explains holden being allowed to speak in public ;)

>>52482713

My guess is that he had a minor meltdown in the thread. Even if OPP may or may not be filled with liars, the KS was a bad time for everyone.

>>52482389
Rich's perspective is that the stuff in Miracles was originally slated to be part of the core book. Holden and Morke decided to release that material as a companion piece with the core, but Rich feels they were already paid for the content when the core came out, and don't deserve to be paid twice, just because they chose to separate the material into two different books.

Of course, then Rich ended up choosing to sell Miracles as its own thing rather than just bundling it with the core which undercuts his argument. But he did it because, fuck it, OPP needs income and the Exalted dev's weren't getting anything out to be sold. He felt that, because Holden and Morke did such a poor job with getting content out, he didn't have much of a choice but to do this, to keep some kind of income flow coming to the Exalted line.

But Holden and Morke are saying that if OPP is selling Miracles as a stand alone product rather than bundling it with the core, they deserve to get paid for it, rather than having it treated as if it were simply an extension on the core.

Honestly, I'm willing to bet Rich is just pissed that it took them so long to get the core out, and a year later they still hadn't actually gotten any material released since then, so when they started bitching and arguing and threatening to pack up and leave because they weren't getting paid (since in Rich's mind they hadn't produced any new content to be paid for), he figured good riddance, that anyone who replaces them wouldn't be any worse.

>>52482818
>but Rich feels they were already paid for the content when the core came out, and don't deserve to be paid twice, just because they chose to separate the material into two different books.
Here's the thing: They were paid for the corebook on the wordcount that actually ended up published. So stuff they wrote for the corebook that was cut is stuff they were not paid for, but which _remains_ property of OPP.

Now, they are planning to publish the cut material as the bestiary thing, and aren't going to pay anyone for it because it's already their property, even though they didn't pay anyone for it.

At least, that's what Holden said.

>>52482860
On that note, have a little chatlog.

https://pastebin.com/c1tw205f

>>52482611
I find that unlikely, simply on the basis that OPP would know damn well that bad PR could cost them tons of revenue. Exalted 3E is a sizable project. Even if they didn't hire a PR manager specifically for the Exalted dev team they could and should at least have one from their own staff look into things from time to time.

Also, on RichT's freakout over the most tiny of criticisms you can possibly imagine:


Holden_EX3:let's just say these kind of outbursts aren't new for me
Holden_EX3:or john

>>52482818

Speaking of Miracles, has anyone here actually bought it? The one that keeps getting posted here is missing one of the resistance charms. I know that it's been commented in, but the comment has my given name on it, because I was the one who wrote the comment.

>>52482946

Fucking hilarious. It's a god damn script, Rich, no need to freak out.

>>52482860
Thing is, this shouldn't have been a surprise. This is how White Wolf/OPP has always done things. It's why back when Ink Monkeys was coming out, and the authors were releasing material they had written for older books that had ended up being cut, they needed to get White Wolf/OPP's permission to do so.

It's one of the reasons why line developers do their best not to have authors "over-write" material. Because the authors won't end up being paid for it.

I mean, Holden and Morke literally knew this was how things work when they were hired. They knew this back when they were working on Ink Monkeys material years before EX3 ever got started. They've known the whole time.

So I don't know why they'd suddenly be so shocked and act so butt-hurt about it now.

>>52482818

Sucks that this happened, but good riddance.

Exalted 2e had all of it's books published in four years. In four years Holden and Morke released one book. The only excuse I heard that was better when one RPG book was indefinitely delayed when the guy writing it died.

Let's hope Vance and Minton actually release shit.

<SvnDvlClvr> Also, whoa: Holden, they actually didn't PAY you? WTF.
<Holden_EX3> shit, I've still never even gotten a contract for editing Miracles
<SvnDvlClvr> Jesus. Let's hope they at least pay the new guys.
<SvnDvlClvr> This reminds me a lot of a MUSH staff changeover lol
<Holden_EX3> Here's hoping
<Holden_EX3> although considering they never paid the Charm Cards guy either, I wouldn't hold my breath
<Holden_EX3> wouldn't even tell me what rate to give him so I could make out a contract myself
<RandBrittain> Have you sent an invoice?
<RandBrittain> A paper trail is useful in these things.
<Holden_EX3> Miracles is totally complete, so
<Holden_EX3> anyway no
<Holden_EX3> i just fail to get responses to emails
<Holden_EX3> i stopped trying past a certain point desu
<SvnDvlClvr> A good decision depending on how much are you are owed
<SvnDvlClvr> sucks but past a point not worth the trouble
<RandBrittain> I guess you've decided not to go public about that, though?
<SvnDvlClvr> (I've been down this road in an unrelated career matter)
<Anathema> it's fucking unprofessional to not pay your contractors, that should be unforgivable
<SvnDvlClvr> unless it's late pizza
<SvnDvlClvr> that's american tradition
<Holden_EX3> Freelancers are inherently disposable. A lot more people who want work in this industry than work to go around
[...]
<Mobius> Holden_EX3 -- Okay, with that, I'm going to have to rethink buying any further OPP products.
<Mobius> Yanking freelancer chains like that is very not cool.
<RandBrittain> That seems like it's inevitably going to go public.
<RandBrittain> I mean, this channel basically is public.

RandBrittain is a prophet

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>>52483071
>Exalted 2e had all of it's books published in four years

To be fair, 2E's books were a disaster of no communication, miscommunication, outright C+P'd mechanics stuff from 1E without any changes, botched mechanics, and poor fluff.

That is not a thing you want to aspire towards.

>>52460947
>Gods/Demons/Spirits book because they're all more numerous than anything else and can serve all sorts of roles, from mentor to monster of the week, and serve a bunch of functions for just about anyone, from PC to NPC.

No need. They have a score of spirit charms centred around their core thematic, that's enough. The rules to make Gods/Demons/Elementals in 2e were absolutely boring and kind of a mess, because it's difficult to provide a generic framework for any kind of power, and absolutely nobody cares anyways. I never used them. A spirit of frost has four or five cold charms. A spirit of rot can rot food, produces disease, and has a withering touch. End of line.

Ghosts are thematically powerful and have very strong limits in what they do, so giving them their own splatbook (which we'll probably not have before the fourth millennium) is perfectly good.

Exigents have the same issues than spirits and I personally couldn't care less about them. Either they give us an broken framework which will be an absolute mess or a dozen examples of Exigents. The amount of fuck I give is equal to zero in both cases.

>>52483250
>e rules to make Gods/Demons/Elementals in 2e were absolutely boring and kind of a mess, because it's difficult to provide a generic framework for any kind of power, and absolutely nobody cares anyways

Funny, because that is exactly what I expect out of Exigents.

>>52482904
When was this? Like what day?

Has anyone a nice homebrew conversion of Violet Bier of Sorrows, Arms of the unconquered Sun or other Styles not yet in the book?

>>52483326
1st of April, just after midnight

>>52483143
Honestly I'd rather have a game with bad mechanics than no game at all. I can fix or figure out a way to bypass or deal with bad mechanics. Not having anything is much more difficult to work with.

>>52479388
And a bunch of lesser houses that are going to actually get more detail this time around, or so the devs have said.

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>>52483469

I'd rather a game with decent mechanics that can spit out 2 books a year than a game with shit mechanics that spits out 4.

And since they just dumped the guys making everything take so long, hopefully we'll see some damn books this year with solid mechanics.

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>>52483508

Am I the only person that never liked the House thing for the Realm? Felt way too much like VtM clans under a different window dressing.

>>52482818
I actually side with holden on this

...ew

>>52483509

Arms in three months, Antagonists and Bestiary in the meantime.

>>52482993
>has anyone here actually bought it

meh, if they're not paying the writers I'm just gonna steal it from the op link. afterall, the company head considers it part of the core I bought right?

>>52483509
Would you rather have a game that spits out 1 book every 5 years with modestly above average mechanics? Because that's what we have right now.

I'd rather have faster books with simply average or even somewhat below average mechanics.

>>52482146
We have no clue. Right now all we know is that Eric and Vance are now leads, and can reasonably assume that john and holden are off entirely. For all we know those two might get freelance work later down the line, or someone completely new brought in.

>>52482307
A damn. I knew I should have kept lurking in the irc, is it even still active anymore? It'd be nice to have some details, no direct quotes just general sentiments.

>>52483539
Dragon Blooded family relations are an important part of their concept, and dividing them into different families absolutely makes sense.

>>52483596

That's not the point. The point is that the one in the OP link is missing a charm and needed to be commented in, the one you can purchase has the missing charm.

>>52483539
How would you prefer the different families to be handled?

>>52482946
On the one hand, I love this. On the other, technically this is an insanely unprofessional thing to say. (Not that I'm surprised)

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>>52483685

Honestly, I'd rather the whole Realm be done away with. As an entity, it doesn't serve much purpose other than to be the "big evil empire" and provide a reason to scare new players or young exalt's. You could do that without needing a setting dominating element. I'd rather the whole thing be split into a dozen warring kingdoms with different ideaology's than one giant puppet state thats currently missing it's lead puppet.

It's just not very interesting to me as a whole, and as I said, the House thing just reeks of VtM to me for some reason, and thats not a game I really enjoyed.

>>52483778
>and as I said, the House thing just reeks of VtM to me for some reason, and thats not a game I really enjoyed.

Too bad, the VtM clans were explicitly mentioned in the run-up to 3e as the inspiration behind fleshing out the character of the Great Houses.

>>52483778
Okay. I can't really agree with any part of that, but i hink I can see where you're coming from.

Are we sure we can trust any of this information about Holden and Morke btw, guys? It *IS* April 1st.

>>52483831
I don't think I really care one way or the other. I'm not the biggest exalted fan, I don't follow around the forums and keep up with each monday meeting. I just wait till books come out then buy them. I couldn't care whats happening behind the scenes.

>>52483867
Nor do I really, but it just occurred to me that perhaps it should nonetheless be taken with more grains of salt than it is.

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>>52483829

Thats fine. I know people like it. I just think it'd be a more interesting game, in a game of "You can change the world!" to not immeadiately throw a giant, sorta-but-not-really unified front boogeyman at the players.

>>52483891
where the fuck are her pants

>>52483891
>wear giant mantle against cold
>forgot to wear pants, thighs and so on completely uncovered

>>52483831
I can't imagine they'd joke about something like this, but rumors I've heard put more blame on them than Rich. Though I don't know any details. Probably best to take everything you hear with a grain of salt regardless of the day and source, anyway.

I don't know what's really going on, but I just want to play Exalted. Hopefully Vance and Minton will have the professionalism and experience to sort things and keep them that way so I can do that.

hahaha april fools I won't get to play Exalted either way

>>52483831
>tomorrow Holden and Morke post
>April Fools, we're still working for OPP.
>Rich finds out all the shit they've been saying about him and fires them anyway.

>>52483943
The big cat hid them.

>>52483943
anime is where

So, how long before somebody creates a burn account and spams this on the OPP forums? If anything kills Ex3 in the crib, that'd be it.

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>>52483943

Have you never seen superheavy plate armor before Anon?

>>52483539
>Felt way too much like VtM clans under a different window dressing.

Planscape rpg is reskinned VtM. Center of campaign is in the city. Break the rules/Masquerade and Lady of Pain/Prince will wreck your shit.

Also the way Factions chapter is written clearly has roots in VtM. ( Every faction gets special powers (disciplines) and relationships between factions and what they think of each other are also the same as Vampire clans chapter)

>>52483539
>>52483685

Great Houses are just that. Top of the food chain. Top of the food chain. There are bunch of lesser houses that compete to get into bigger ones. That way you I can play around with more intricacy and players have more freedom and actual goals. Realm is too big for just 11 houses. Also book states there are 10,000 Dragonblooded in Empire.

>>52484213
Civilization is a reskin of VtM. Different "civilizations" (clans) have different bonuses (powers). You're free to do what you want, but if you break the rules (use nukes) the other nations will wreck your shit.

>>52484314
>Also book states there are 10,000 Dragonblooded in Empire.
I can see your point, but how is this part relevant? Great Houses are extended clans, not families. Each of them has hundreds or thousands of members, both Dragon-Blooded and mortal.

>>52483778

You are seeing Realm in wrong light. Villian that kicks puppies is not interesting and portraying Realm in that way will make it boring.

>>52484451
I agree, but that's how the developers want the Realm to be portrayed because they don't want to "play down the horrors of empire" or what the fuck ever.

>>52484405
>>52484328
>Also the way Factions chapter is written clearly has roots in VtM.

it is easy to quote wrong part and then think you are smart and proving me wrong. Compare Clans layout and Faction layout and then prove me wrong.

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>>52484451

I find that more interesting than "Oh look, another empire falling apart at the seams because everyone in it is an inbred retard, a backstabber, or both".

I'm just bored of that kind of stuff. I prefer more simple, honest "Heres some evil fucks." rather than trying to portray every last power mongering cunt or backstabbing fuckface as some sort of tragic figure when they're really, really not.

>>52484451
but dey betraid mah glorious solarz!!!111 dey mus be baddies! also draygonz is scary monstr

>>52484485
The Realm as a whole being kind of evil is a very different thing from the people in the Realm being evil. The way decent, honorable people can contribute to a brutal, oppressive system while believing in the righteousness of their actions and while having an actual, reasonable basis for this belief is where te nuance comes in with the Realm. Presenting the Realm itself as somehow better than any historical empire, all of which are pretty much evil if judged by the standards of modern western morality, would be just lazy. Or, in other words, the Realm only protects the Threshold so it can rob its wealth with no competition, but individual Dragon-Blooded may well protect the Threshold because they genuinely feel it is their duty as Princes of the Earth.

>>52484405

Because everyone present themselves as part of the great house. You can have 3 people from the same great house that have nothing to do with each other and to a person who doesn't know they are part of same family. because of the surname. That being said having same surname with hundred thousand of members is brain-numbing. It leaves no room to play around. Having 100,000 blood related people who all also happen to be in places of power is silly.

>>52484726
I said hundreds or thousands, not hundreds of thousands. Powerful clans of that size are hardly unreasoanble. There should be lesser Houses, to be sure, and at least at one point the devs stated that such Houses would exist and get some wordcount in 3E. There is also a non-negligible minority of Lost Eggs, so it isn't like all the Dragon-Blooded in the Realm belong to Great Houses. Still, the size of the Houses really isn't a problem.

Can someone explain to me how Over-And-Under Method actually works and plays out?

>>52484802

you have 10,000 dragonblooded. Also with average lifespan of 300 years expect DragonBlooded to have multiple children.

Now take into account that not every child will exalt. And those children also create their offspring. And they still remain the part of the Great House.

So now that we're closing another thread full of trolling and drama and hit rock bottom, why not talk about rock bottom things?

What would sex feel like with each type of Exalted + each 'type' (Warrior, Entertainer, etc...) of fey?

Two questions:

1. How do you make Necromancy a viable choice? As it stands Sorcery does everything Necromancy can do and it has more added utility making it the superior choice.

2. Whats the best system to port Exalted into and does anybody have any experince with how this works out? I figure a lot of the super-hero systems could work pretty well and I know there's been a conversion to Fate.

>>52484692

then you can say every system ever was evil. But they really try to represent them as coke-snorting, sibling-fucking psychopaths.

and forget that part when shit hits the fan in the world dragoonblooded need to go and deal with it.

>>52484968
>and forget that part when shit hits the fan in the world dragoonblooded need to go and deal with it.

And they've done such a good job with that haven't they?