MTG Spoilers

>>52453880
>serpopard

>>52453880
Well this card looks shitty in standard already

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>>52453880
>>52453905
Will Cat Snake see action in Modern?

Also here's a good piece of thinning.

>>52453880

>Not Dr Seuss Edition

>>52453916
>Modern

Not many decks even play counterspells. Also the decks that do could just bolt this guy?

Definitely not made for modern

>>52453916
In order to be Modern playable, it'd need to be 1CMC and either hexproof or not be boltable.

>Control babs upset they can't stop people from playing the game

>>52454001
>yfw OG counterspell in this set

>>52454024
That would actually be a cool move from WotC so they won't do that

They'll print another gimped Mana Leak with horrible downsides

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>>52453897
What, you think wizards made them up?

>>52453905
>Turn 3 Cat Snake
>Turn 4 Hydra
>GG

>>52453880
Read that as a 1/3 at first and wasn't impressed.
Looks ok desu.

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>>52454062
I know already that they existed in Egyptian Mythology, because I'm a pleb who reads Rick Riordan books, but it's still pretty fucking dumb to call those things "serpopards."

>>52453916
>Also they're as racially incoherent as I'm!
>At last I feel at home, but also not.

>>52454148
Meh, it makes sense for his character. He was born on Theros, after all.

>>52454163
This all but confirms that basic landcycling is returning.

>>52454201
>aven mindcensor confirms cycling is back
>not the second image in the thread which has a cycle cost on it

>>52453905
>A 4/3 for 3 with not one but two powerful abilities is shit!
My god I hate this game so much.

>>52454233
learn to read

>>52454233
basic landcycling, you mong.

>>52454235
In standard right now both of his abilities are irrelevant

And sadly there are just better plays to make on turn 3. Rishkar shits on this snake.

>>52454233
He wasn't talking about normal cycling.

>>52454280
>counterspells don't exist in standard
nani?

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How does something like this function?

>>52454309
It's easy, you just turn your card over and erase that little blue circle on the back

>>52454304
They don't exist in Standard's meta.

>>52454309
The card, or the creature?

>>52454309
That art looks like something I pastelled together in an afternoon in high school.

>>52454280
Right now it's not great, sure. But the sheer existence of the card ensure that counterspell based control will NOT exist in standard for the next 2 years.

>>52454304
Disallow exists and barely only makes it in Temur Tower as like maybe a 2 of. Every other counter spell is spell focused aka Negate. Also coincidentally Temur Tower has no problem with it's opponent wasting 3 mana on this card when it has other answers.

It's shit captain

>>52454350
Lmao no. You've no idea what you're talking about

>>52454309
I imagine it's mostly like a leopard that has an effective striking range with its bite, it must have incredibly powerful neck muscles

>>52454024

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/159015172048/is-aven-mindsensor-the-only-invocation-card

AWW, THAT'S TOO BAD

>people forgetting this is bolas block and Baral was in the last set
Next set is gonna have effective counters
Remember this post

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Already spoiled technically, but this version has the reminder text.

>>52454445
>italicized invocations
We might be getting some noteworthy reprints, then.

>>52454350
>counterspell based control will NOT exist
1it won't exist anyway
2control has to play removal too, you can just remove him easily

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>Cheap creature that can't be countered; creatures you control can't be countered
>Embalming a creature isn't casting it, so it can't be countered
>cycling a card for its "when you cycle..." effect isn't casting a spell, so it can't be countered
>countered spells go to the graveyard, which is the only way to cast their Aftermath half

What is with all the fucking Counterspell hate? I'm starting to wonder if we're getting a normal reprint of Counterspell.

>>52454495
MaRo confirmed on his Tumblr that Mindcensor (and the Gods) will be the only Invocations to also get normal prints in the set. Since Counterspell was an Invocation...

>>52454495
Counter control AKA permission blue is a stifling, choking archetype that offends every other player at the table and should never have existed, but we're stuck with it as a result of MtG's addiction to its own legacy

>>52454473
I don't think it's supposed to be emphasis, maro just does weird stuff with magic related terms

>>52454495
No one likes control players, even wizards, despite their hardon for blue

>>52454555
>>52454527
>T. Timmyfag that cries everytime anyone pulls an infinite edh combo in his table because he can't use the stack

>>52454527
Counter control mirror matches are the highest form of MtG.

>>52454527
>assblasted whiner crying

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>>52454527
there is literally nothing wrong with this card

Holy shit all these tabletop babies

>he countered Muh fatty, now I can't turn things sideways reeeeeee wee

Counterspells are blues removal and completely necessary to stop all kinds of fuckery

>>52454527
This is so true

That's why outdated formats with old unfun counterspells like Modern and Legacy are super unpopular and basically everyone is getting out of it now

And that's why standard where counterspells are rightfully not playable is as popular as it's ever been! Tournament attendance is through the roof and my LGS's have a huge parking and space problem every time they announce a standard event. I've even heard talk that pokemon and yugioh tcgs are shutting down due to the phenomenal no-counterspell attitude wotc is doing.

>>52453880
I'm the point where I know this is good in EDH.

>>52454309
It just means the opponent cant counter your creature spells anymore
duh

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>>52454648
This sounds subtly sarcastic, but I don't know enough about player demographics to know if you're memeing or not. Is tournament attendance really up?

Also, jesus christ Capcha, what are you doing!?

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>>52454646
Were you this buttmad when Avacyn came out or are counterspells a sacred cow for some reason?

>>52454342
lmao so salty

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>all these triggered Timmy's in the thread

Let me guess...you play commander right? But of course not a blue commander

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRCp0M3ozmU

This is what every anti-blue Timmy player I've come across sounds like all the time

>>52454646
Blue also has access to bounce, destroy and exile.

Blue already has plenty of removal

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>>52454634
>mfw I play Time Stop after opponent Counterspells my Negate targeting his Rewind, and he responds with Mindbreak Trap

>>52454648
Counterspells have never had a prominent place in Modern.

>>52454527
This is incredibly true for casual players, I know because I play with a lot of them and they get upset if I even O-ring their beaters. Since Wizards is trying to cater to them counter control will likely not see the light until Wizards no longer finds the casual market more attractive than the current.

>>52454728
No, because 8-drops should be able to win the game on their own. If that had said "other permanents you control are indestructible and can't be countered," it literally wouldn't have been an issue.

>>52454755
bounce isn't removal. blue does not have more/better destroy or exile than green does.

>>52454771
I legitimately wish I were in that situation. If that happened to me, I'd remember that game forever.

>>52454771
You better cast your pact of negation with daze support to counter his force of will

>>52454755
Blue having access to destroy and exile was a fucking mistake, no matter how hard you fluff that.

>>52454527
Reminder that when you say something like this you basically confirm that you are bad at magic

Never met or talk with anyone that hated blue and counterspells so much that wasn't a casual player or a tournament player that always 0-X drops.

>>52454445
Whelp, that was fast, oh well, back to Pauper it is then.

>>52454793
>blue does not have more/better destroy or exile than green does


That wasn't the argument, the argument was counterspell being necessary for blue, despite the fact blue already has plenty of removal.

Green's removal is irrelevant, given blue has it + counter spells

>>52454723
They're secretly training autists to Git gud for the SATs and GREs so we can unleash you guys into campuses to make those fucking gender studies madwoman ragequit.

>>52454793
So why do you have a problem with a 3CMC sorcery speed rare that disables a very specific type of removal that's restricted to a single color and isn't even that color's only method of removing creatures?

A creature that can't be countered that makes it so that your creature spells can't be handled isn't a game winner, nor do it completely cripple blue. You're really overrating this card, in whatever format you play in.

>>52454771
>>52454821
I won an EDH match by rewinding a boardwipe, which my opponent responded by rewinding my rewind, so I copied my rewind with Meletis Charlatan, targeting his rewind. He scooped, and the other guy scooped because his only hope was the board being cleared.

It's not even a control deck, just a jank Mizzix pick up my deck/infinite turns.

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Magic is a game of answers to answers to answers. I play a creature. You can trump it with a kill spell. I can trump that with indestructible. You can trump that with exile, pacifism, or tapping it down. I can trump that with Hexproof. You can trump that with Bonds of Mortality, Glaring Spotlight... Arcane Lighthouse? There's not a lot of those effects (yet) but there are answers even to those.

I cast an instant or sorcery. You counter it. And... we're done. What exciting interaction! Good use of strategy. I commend you on your deckbuilding, having the forethought to include those Mana Leaks. I never would've thought of such a clever plan.

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>>52454886
That wasn't the point. I was trying to say that it's not worth caring about the incidental ways that blue can exile, just like it's not worth caring about the incidental ways that read can counter spells.

Blue has negate and spell pierce. Green has prey upon and lignify. As it should be.

>>52454906
I don't have a problem with the Serpopard (except with its name). I'm a different anon from the other guy. I'm just defending counterspells

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FLUCTUATOR IN MODERN ?

>>52454847
That's because being "good" at magic requires being adept at navigating counterspells, you arrogant twit. Of course people who are comfortable with that environment won't complain about it.
Literally what you sound like
>Never met anyone who hates waterboarding that wasn't someone who choked on their own vomit, just git gud and take the water torture like the pros

>>52454967
Your first scenario involves both players playing a bunch of shitty unplayable cards

Feel free to kill yourself now

>>52454847

I hate the fact that counterspells are almost an exclusively blue thing.

I'd like if all colours got some stack interaction.

>>52455010
>"why should I learn to hold my breath if I want to swim?!"

>>52454967
But blue's entire gimmick is saying "no, you're not allowed to do that" whenever an opponent tries to do something. Being able to interact with blue is bad, unless you're blue, because blue is the only color that's allowed to dictate how the game functions.

>>52455019
Yeah, that's fair.

I'd kill if green had a prey upon for spells. like, "G, counter target spell if you control a creature with power greater than its CMC."

>>52454967
You know you can counter counters too right? Or straight up render your spells uncounterable with Boseju or Cavern of Souls? Or just play uncounterable spells?

>>52455010
If you are shit then don't talk about the game faggot

>never won a game of baseball. Only played it once
>go to a baseball game
>bitch at players for not doing backflips when the catch the ball and not hitting other players with bats
>when someone calls you out on being a retard you just say "w-well I don't wanna get good a-anyway" :^)

>>52455025
That's only if you accept countering as an inevitability. It is nevertheless fundamentally poor game design.
Your analogy is certainly apt, because a better designed creature that wants to swim should have the capacity for underwater breathing.

>>52455044

Or red getting back some of it's redirection of spells.

>>52454971
I do care though, blue already has the strongest stack interaction with counterspell and the like. Not only that, it is allowed a re-do by bouncing a creature and then countering that creature when played again

It shouldn't also have polymorph, turn to frog, curse of the swine, and etc.

>>52455019
>I'd like if all colours got some stack interaction

There is plenty of instants and activated abilities in all colors. Don't be retarded

>>52455058
Yes. Whales and frogs are poorly designed creatures.

>>52455081
>Blue is allowed to 2-for-1 itself
What an advantage!

>>52455046
>You know you can counter counters too right?

I think the issue there is that 'Only blue has counterspells'. If counterspells were more spread out (Like how basically all colour has removal spells in some way or another, even if black gets the simplest/most effective) I don't think people would be quite so annoyed about counterspells.

>>52455046
>uncounterable spells
No. No. No. That's cancer. No. That's the sort of cancer that leads to modern magic. All cards should be counterable. To make a card non-counterable makes the card non-interactive in the worst possible way.

If I'm not able to counter any spell I like, then I'm not allowed to play the game and the color I'm playing is being rendered useless.

>>52455117

So should no spells have shroud/hexproof either? As that makes them untargetable on the battlefield and stops a LOT more interaction than not being counterable.

>>52455117
.t a blue player

>>52455117
This is what blue players actually believe?

>>52455058
No, it's not poor game design. It's imperfect game design. That's basically your entire problem. "oh, this isn't perfect game design, so it's bad."
Tell you what. I get to keep my 2 CMC counterspells, and you get to keep your 3 CMC land destruction. Happy?

>>52455081
>people bounce creatures so they can counter them again
>people don't bounce for the tempo play
Please do not talk about a subject you are ignorant of.

>>52455103
Given it already had a chance to stop the spell the first time, yeah that is an advantage.

>>52455117
>waaaaahhhh, wizards should only cater to me because I want to stop other people from playing
>I hate figuring out new ways to remove threats because I'm too smart for it

>>52455132
Yes.

Interactivity is the name of the game and blue is all about targeting the opponent's cards with spells. If I'm not allowed to bounce, polymorph or counter whatever you're playing, then I'm not being able to play the game.

Hexproof and "can't be countered" are non-interactive cancer mechanics.

>>52455117
Thanks, I'm gonna play my Prowling Serpopard in every format now. :^)

>>52455132
Shroud is okay, but hexproof is dumb.

>>52455136
No, just selfish players. Anon probably lost to an Emrakul or something and was pissed he couldn't do anything about it.

>>52455105
>Now I have to worry about every fucking color combination being able to counter something of mine this is fucking bullshit REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>52455057
>Shut up, the only people allowed to talk about the game are the professionals!

>>52455141
That wasn't what I was trying to state.

It's the fact blue players shouldn't complain when they have stack interaction that other colors would die for + creature removal that is supposed to be the purvey of other colors

>>52455173

What about blue's 'Can't be blocked' creatures? That's taking away interactivity.

>>52455185
>counterspells aren't fair because they just remove a creature
>creature removal spells are fair because they remove a creature (and isn't blue)

Really gets the noggin' joggin'

>>52455209
Every other color has removal spells available to them. They can handle it.

>>52455173
removing every single one of someone's win-cons before they can even do anything is also the opposite of interactivity on their part

>>52455173
except you can interact with "can't be countered" hexproof cards. You know, by blocking them.
If you're playing a deck that doesn't have answers to uncounterable boggles, thaty's YOUR problem.

>>52455191
If you're not an expert at the game, you're not allowed to speak as if you are an authority on it.
Now stop posting, Desolatormagic.

>>52455200
We're not. We're complaining when you're saying that we shouldn't have that stack interaction anymore.
We want you guys to have stack interaction because stack interaction is fun. More colours should be like Blue, Blue should not be like more colours.

>>52455228

And blue has creatures to deal with stuff that can't be targeted/countered.

>>52455218
Agreed. Blue's "removal" is counterspells and bounce. Blue can barely answer a permanent already on the battfield, outside of a very few cards.

Every color has SOME form of removal. Black gets hard removal, White can exile, Red burns, Green can Fight or remove through superior creature blocking.

And no one complains about any other form of removal, but MaRo- forbid an efficient counterspell is printed.

>>52455185

I think you are overstating it. The issue with blue counterspells is less 'They exist' and more 'Blue has an utterly exclusive mechanic as a defining part of it's theme in a way that no other colour has'.

>>52455288
>utterly exclusive mechanic

Isn't that a lot of colors? Isn't that the point of the color pie?

Are you sure you aren't just a little steamed your Craw Wurm got leaked?

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>>52455288
There are more non-blue counterspells than there are non-black edicts

>>52455287
>implying any of those other colours have had decent removal printed lately

I do agree that counterspell should be modern legal though

My probably with counterspells is that they're too fucking general.
I would be fine if there were different counter spells that could only counter certain card types.
No one card counters everything nonsense that doesn't require any smart deck building. That has always been my problem with counter spells.

>>52454967
Yeah but Dog check this out, I can only counter your spell at one time and only if I have the mana. If I miss the bus or fuck up my risk management I could let you have something very good and have no response or if I get spooked I'll waste my counter on an inferior threat.

Conversely I can kill spell your dude at any point in the proceedings.

>>52455334
Black literally just got Fatal Push.

>>52455260
That's not blue's shtick though.

I play blue in MtG to redefine what MtG is and ensure that my opponent plays MtG the way I want them to. Blue is the color of controlling the game, of wit, of logic, of the supreme and most intelligent MtG player.

By giving other colors methods of controlling the game, you are stealing from blue's niche and stealing blue's method of interacting with other players by making them impossible to interact with. This is not acceptable. Blue must remain unique and the most challenging, intelligent and thoughtful color in the game. Cards like the Prowling Serpopard render it useless.

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>Cavern of souls
>aether vial
>boseiju
>orim's chant/silence
>xanthrid swarm
>defense grid
>duress
>thoughtseize
>split second
>can't be countered
Waaaah! counterspells are so unfair and impossible to play against! buhu wizards don't print blue plz

Literally NO ONE has good removal in modern anymore. Name one color that has good removal in modern. Everyone is getting fucked. Why whine for one specific color?

Soft counters like Mana Leak should be reprinted as white cards

>>52455351
oh wowwwww, 1 good removal spell in a whole block, incredible

>>52455287
The thing is that a counterspell works on everything. The other colors have removal only for certain things.

>>52455132
Shroud is pretty great, hexproof literally exists because people were too stupid for shroud.

>>52455314

What mechanic does other colours have that no other colour touches on?

Green shares hexproof with blue and fight with red.
White shares lifelink with black, first strike with red and exile with blue/black.

>>52455356
>Lightning Bolt
>Terminate
>Path to Exile
>Abrupt Decay
>Fatal Push

I could go on, but I won't.

>>52455287
>outside of a very few cards

rapid hybridization
curse of the swine
polymorph
pongify
reality shift.


Blue has access to exile, destroy, and bounce.

All "justified" as part of its color slice

>>52455378
Sick goalpost move

I give that one a solid 7/10. Just really solid work there champ

>>52455356
did you mean standard?

>>52455318
There aren't even that many black edicts, it's an uncommon effect to consider.

>>52455356

Black has Fatal Push.

>>52455391
>5 whole cards that don't bounce the permanent
>when thousands of blue cards exist.

5 cards is a few. Do you know how to count?

>>52455352
Did you honestly think, for one second, that this was a good argument? Cause I'm a blue player and even I think you're a fucking idiot right now.

>>52455378
What do you mean? They got 100% of all the good new removal in years

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>>52455385
>What is black with targeted discard
>what is white with exile
>what is red with direct damage

>>52455385
In general you won't see any color but red have burn

You won't see any hard removal for creatures in anything but black

etc

Stop being a bitch

>>52455314
The color pie is more of a color venn diagram. Exclusive mechanics have become nearly nonexistent.

>>52455405
There are many, they see play, and they're "an utterly exclusive mechanic as a defining part of it's theme." It is entirely fair to consider.

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>>52455405
>making opponents sac creatures in black is pretty uncommon

Here's a (you). Don't spend it all in one place

Black is the smartest color. There is actual risk to be managed and sidedecking to be done. Blue just fields 30 counterspells and doesn't give a shit about a sidedeck.

>>52455417

I'd much rather if we got shenanigans for all colours. So red can redirect your spells, blue can hard-counter better than the others, white is good at no selling spells that would hurt them or their stuff etc.

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>>52454615
The other three people just give the guy a firm look, a golfclap and continue the game without him. Right?

>>52455448
t. Kitchen Table expert

>>52455436
>>52455446
How to spot legacy players: they still think edicts are common.

>>52455287
So, let's look at these methods of removal.

Black takes a creature from the battlefield and puts it into the graveyard.
White takes a creature from the battlefield and puts it into a zone that it can't be returned to the game from, unless certain conditions are met.
Red takes a creature from the battlefield and puts it into the graveyard if its health is less than the damage dealt by red's removal.
Green takes a creature from the battlefield and puts into a graveyard if its health is less than the damage dealt by the creature it's fighting.

And... Blue takes literally any card before it is played, not just creatures, and puts them into the graveyard before they have the chance to do anything at all.

Sure, blue's method of removal is super balanced when you compare them like that. No reason to complain about it at all.

>>52455426
>vendilion clique
>ashes to ashes
>bump in the night/any number of drain effects

So if cycling is coming back, on as scale of one to fucking impossible how likely is astral slide coming to standard/modern?

>>52455458
why would someone continue to play a game they already losed?

>>52455415
5 compared to how many other colors get unconditional counter spell?

The closest white has is tithe

>>52455459
t. won $10 at a local """"""""""""""""tournament"""""""""""""""""""

>>52455477
because they came to lay magic, not to stop playing magic

>>52455470
Any of those others can be done at any time.

Blue has precisely one chance to deal with it, excluding bounce.

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>>52455465
Yeah desu I haven't seen edict effects in such a long time

Can someone in the thread identify what set this card was in? Looks a little old with the edict effect in everything I'd guess it's around the Antiquities area right?

>>52455470
Wew lad
Well I guess it's too bad none of those other colors have any way to interact with anything but creatures already in play, then.

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>>52455472
>Does not discard
>is not universal
>Drain=/= direct damage

>>52455378
>>52455417
In fact, I'm gonna go so far as to say that Black has had all the good removal since Conflux.

>>52455453
Yup. Every colour deserves its bullshit shenanigans.
I'd kill for Red to become the "anti complexity" colour. Bloodmoon is legitimately my favorite Red spell and I want it to have many more effects like it.

>>52455501
?
Blue can destroy creatures on the field that isnt bouncing them.

Pongify and the like

>>52455500
>Because they are too casualfag to understand how to play the game
FTFY

>>52455465
Pauper, actually.

>>52455513
>yes it is effectively
>so? that wasn't what was being argued
>yes it is effectively

>>52455527
See>>52455415

It's such a tiny sample, that it barely counts.

>>52455527
A few spells out of thousands is probably the exception not the norm

Also those cards aren't amazing either

End your life

>>52455534
>he thinks drain is effectively direct damage

How goes that kitchen table Timmy?

>>52455527
>Citing a Planar Chaos card
Son you're a special kind of dumb

>>52455501
In theory, that leads to all sorts of entertaining resource management and decision making processes.

In practice, all that does is lead to the exhilarating gameplay of:
>Draw, land, go.
>If your opponent plays a non-land card, counter it.
>If your opponent plays nothing, cast an instant for card draw at the end of their turn.
>Draw, land, go.

>>52455509
My dad is MaRo and that card is obviously from Urza's Saga

There is no more edicts anymore reeeeee

>>52455579
There's the Pongify clone that got printed in neonew ravnica.

>>52455575
for almost all intents and purposes they are the same, unless their is something incredibly obvious and fundamental I'm missing (i.e. not a fringe case that only autists would care about)

>>52455579
sorry, excuse me.

Rapid hybridization, or was it curse of the swine?
>>52455547
>>52455552
Good thing blue already has counter spells, and bounce on top of these. Good thing other colors can interact with the stack to... oh wait

>>52455287
I'd be alright with hexproof and shroud begin removed from the game if counterspells are too.

Blue get's bounce/return to top of library as removal.

>>52455589
>mfw I enjoy playing against control decks because you have to think about when to play your threats how to prioritize them and how to disrupt the the control player

Sorry, you play the game like a neanderthal

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>>52455477
Why would they spent fifteen minutes watching a single guy flick cards around? Just give him a golden star, tell him he's a little champion and move the fuck on with the game.

Bonus level is achieved when they tilt about having to wait for a new game.

>>52455579

Curse of Swine was Theos. That was pretty damn recent and was mass exile.

>>52455613
Blue is the only color allowed to interact with the stack because the purpose of blue is to play Magic on a level above the other colors.

Blue is meant to interact with other colors on a level that they can't be interacted with in return. That's the genius of it, you see.

>>52455632
Because you were stupid enough to not have something to stop it and not lose the game? something like; you know... counterspell?

>>52455589
If you don't like that kind of play, then that's fine. if you're saying that its wrong to enjoy that kind of play, that's not fine.

>>52455613
>>52455633
I wasn't aware doom blade gave the opponent a replacement. While these card literally say "destroy" and "exile", they are closer to auras that say "this create becomes an X/Y with no abilities". Don't be so literal.

>>52455608
>I bump in the Night and reirect to your Liliana
>You can't
>b-but I thought the mechanics were exactly the same. F-fucking blue players.

>>52453962
It'll probably be a sideboard tech for mono green stompy.

>>52455613
all the other colours can interact with the stack better than blue can exile and remove shit.

>>52455644
Please stop posting. Your arguments are horrible.

>>52455630
How do you play threats in a game with 2CMC hard counterspells?

>>52455661
like I said, autist

>>52455670
I dunno, ask Legacy, they have free counterspells as well. Must be a horrible format.

>>52455657

>they are closer to auras that say "this create becomes an X/Y with no abilities".

You can remove auras/bring the creature back as it's original version when it dies with an aura. This is exile.

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>>52455652
Protip: combo decks run counterspells of their own. I see what you're trying here Anon, but you should try trying a little less hard.

>>52455675
>Planeswalker
>Edge case
How's that kitchen table?

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Seems decent in limited.

>>52455670
you play them when your opponent taps out
>b-but what if they always keep two lands up?
congratulations, you are 2 land drops and 1 card ahead of your opponent. If you can't with from this situation, you shouldn't be playing in formats with 2CMC counterspells.

>>52455657
Yeah nah,

Auras can be removed much easier then graveyard recursion and exile recursion

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>>52455670
>delver of secrets
>gobling guide
>ichorid
>monastery swiftspear
>kird ape
and the list goes on and on

>>52455675
Spot the casual player

>>52455675
Sorry rules exist outside of playing your kitchen table games

>>52455670
Continue playing into counterspells until they run out
Play recursive creatures that don't care if they're in your hand or graveyard
Play uncounterable creatures
Play creatures with Flash when they're tapped down
Play creature token generators
Play stax

I'm sure there's more.

>>52455675
t. Desolatormagic

>>52455693
>3-mana doomblade that exiles at common
OH BABY!

>>52455693
Nice try.

>>52455693
For a common black removal, this is pretty decent.

>>52455670
I dunno man

It's bullshit cause in Legacy every deck is just 40 2cmc counterspells and 20 lands and everyone pouts because there is literally no way to play a threat

>>52455686
>He had the time to have all the pieces of combo and protection in a singleton deck.
You must be very shitty at magic then

>>52455684
>>52455698
I never said they were the same, I said the effect was closer to it than straight up removal. While yes, being able to recurse is important, the immediate effect on the game is "this thing is now a different thing" rather than "this thing is no longer a thing".

Again, stop being so literal.

>>52455693
>exile effect in black

fucking nice

>>52455693
Is that theros artwork?

>>52455693
is it real?
looks odd

>>52455730

Oh, so Path to Exile isn't Exile? As it just turns a creature into a land?

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>>52455726
Please tell me you're being sarcastic and/or retarded on purpose.

>>52455693
Set symbol's white side is gray instead of white. Nice try.

>>52455742
>>52455743
have we been smeckledorfed?

>>52455693
If this is real it's a game changer of all game changers.

>>52455470
Sure it's balanced, it makes Blue Bette Ethan any other colour in terms of removal.

You know, the way Magic is supposed to be.

>>52455723
>>52455752

Thanks, I try to disappoint.

I've made a fake card every set since Theros and dropped it in these threads. Usually more than one.
Nobody's ever fallen for it for more than an hour.

>>52455718
>>52455725
>>52455732
>>52455742
Please don't tell me you guys actually think that's real.

The architecture's all wrong, the art style's completely off, the formatting's janky and weird, the set symbol's shit, everything about it screams fake.

>>52455465
Go fuck yourself, edicts should always be common.

>>52455770
You can't blame them after the weird as fuck invocations

>>52455765
What ticked me off is the non-black formatting,

Color hate has been gone since Origins.

>>52455748
That exchanges one resource for another, as does swords to plowshares. Those blue spells literally change what the creature is.

>>52455765
It looked off to me but I'm too much of a lurker to challenge it directly. Something about the mana symbols and set symbol looked machined.

>>52455770
Hence the >is that theros artwork

>>52455728
Have a golden star, you little champion.

>>52455788
Origins wasn't that long ago, anon. No reason it can't come back

>>52454309

In a Commander deck of course!

>>52455765
Other than the set symbol being miscolored the art gives it away. Why would there be Ancient Greek buildings? I know in reality the Greeks and Egyptians did interact, but this is fake Egypt by WotC.

>>52455458
>Player wins the game
>"Nuh-Uh" it didn't count :^)
> Pretend they don't exist while you play Elder Durdle Highlander

>>52455791

So does path to exile, as much as curse of swine does. You lose a creature, gain a land vs you lose a creature, you gain a minor token.

>>52454771
You know, that was how me and my friends played Magic in high school. And we didn't get confused about it because we weren't retarded and/or women.

>>52455825
>someone does what they consider fun
>the other people continue to do what they consider fun
>neckbeards on /tg/ get butthurt about this

>>52455830
Please try to keep up. Path and swords are "I blew up your creature, here is something in return". Curse of Swine is "Your creatures are now pigs". They have a different effect on the game.

>>52455806
Because Color-Hate is one of the dumbest things in Magic, I really don't see why anyone sees it as good game Design.

>>52455848
>Can't handle losing
>Better plug my ears, song something from Sesame street and pretend it didnt happen.

>>52455806
Origins was an end to the Lorwyn-Khans era of card design. It's clear that their design and development philosophy changed massively from Origins onwards.

All you need to do to realize this is look at Frontier and see how crazily different stuff from M15 and Khans block is compared to the rest of Frontier.

>>52455862
Please kill yourself

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>>52455792
>>52455824
Hmm, fair enough. I was gonna shitpost it on Reddit and see if anyone fell for those sweet, sweet yous, but I can't get MSE to format the symbol properly.

It's weird, because the colored section (black, silver, gold, red) switches sides. I'd have to make two symbols, since MSE wants to do pic related.

>>52455862

Both of them are now 'Your creature is now X'. In one case it's pigs, in the other it's a land.

>>52455082
You know what he means though

>>52455884
Lad, have you tried filling the blank space in with color? I don't edit a bunch, but this seems fairly simple.

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>>52455693
Man, that's pretty good. But not good enough you FUCKER you think you can fool me with that GARBAGE set symbol kys my man

>>52455900
The MSE symbol editor is a finicky bitch.

>>52455893
In one case it continues to function as a creature, in the other it doesn't, barring man-lands.

>>52455848
>Player wants to do a sweet combo
>Manages to do it
>Expects a "nice"
>Instead gets sarcastic golfclaps
>Plays as if the Player never combos at all, or even was in the game
>Has to wait 20 minutes due to the GW standstill
>Player wonders why they went to all that effort for a combo when nobody else recognizes it.

>>52454645
As a Timmy that has to deal with it, you're right. I don't particularly like playing against control, and like playing it less, but it's fine as a deck archtype. Believe it or not you can be a timmy and know how to deal play around counters and removal

>>52455765
For what it's worth your flavor text was good.

>>52455909

So? That' doesn't change the fact that it's changing one thing into another thing.

>>52453880
Does this replace Gaea's Herald?
4/3 and uncounterable itself vs G more to cast, and not being an elf.

>>52455942
>Situation 1
>Player 2 at 5 life, has a creature
>Player 1 has a 5/5 non-evasive creature
>Player 1 casts path, swings for win

>Situation 2
>Player 2 at 5 life, has a creature
>Player 1 has a 5/5 non-evasive creature
>Player 1 casts pongify, game continues

Yep, no difference at all.

>>52455864
The OP's image is color hate you dumb nigger

>>52454163
Say good bye to your price tag because there's not way this thing sees play in Standard.
Gotcha Bird's whole shit is shitting up fetching and tutoring.

>>52455989

...that same situation could happen if player 1 has a flying creature.

>>52455990
Doesn't me I don't recognize it. Uncounterable spells is pretty much blue hate in a format that already hates blue.

>>52454645
I've never played blue other than Brainstorm and co. in an Oloro EDH. But the standard where this, Spell Pierce, Ponder and Preordain were all legal at the same time was much less aggraviating that people like to pretend it was.

>>52454723
>This sounds subtly sarcastic, but I don't know enough about player demographics to know if you're memeing or not

Standard is cratering and Modern is more successful than its ever been.

>>52455356
Nigger the only top tier removal not Modern-Legal is Swords to Plowshares.

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>>52455939
Thanks, mang. I'm a much stronger writer than an artist.
How's this look?

>>52455951
It's one more dude for Ruric Thar's "Fuck Blue" troop.

>>52454148

guy from not-greece feeling at home in not-egypt makes sense to me

>>52453880
What was that maro was saying about threats being too good compared to answers so they wanted to swing the pendulum back towards good answers? Because this thing is pushed as fuck. WHY is it a 4/3 at 3cmc?

>>52454148
i mean the greeks and egyptians interacted a lot, a guy named Kytheon of Akros would fit in reasonably well.

>>52454527
So casual it hurts. I bet you think anything other than slamming down creatures and turning them sideways is unfair unfun and toxic to the game.

>>52456208
He said this very recently, and this set, and probably the next 2- 3 blocks are in various stages of late development. It'll take about 4 blocks or so for the pendulum to swing in favor of non- creature spells.

>>52455765
what ticked me off was that black doesnt get exile effects.

>>52456208
>Because this thing is pushed as fuck

It's unplayable in constructed.

Get better at card evaluation.

>>52454527

>"Man, that game was so great! I pulled the optimal starting hand for my Agro deck and won by Turn 4! They couldn't do ANYTHING to stop it!"
>"CONTROL IS CANCER IT DOESN'T LET PEOPLE PLAY"

>>52455356
sked

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>>52454527
>bawwww why don't you let me turn my big creatures sideways ;_;

>>52456287
I'm still pissed as fuck no one was blown the hell away when she pulled her opponent's combo out of hand and cast it herself. That's some fucking sweet shit and I would have lost my mind if I'd been watching.

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>>52455770
>The architecture's all wrong, the art style's completely off, the formatting's janky and weird, the set symbol's shit, everything about it screams fake
Hmmm....

>>52456278
>can't do anything to stop aggro
What fucking world do you live in, even colorless decks can stop aggro cold

>>52453916
Why does this have a Planeswalker watermark? Does this mean that there will be Bolas watermarks too?

>>52456389
that's a mark indicating its a 'story spotlight'
you see the 1/5 at the bottom? the idea is if you just get the 5 cards you get the overall arc of the set. Its not perfect, but you can get a general idea of what happened.

>>52456389
It's a "key story moment" watermark, to indicate cards that are key moments in the set's story.

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>>52454821
>>52454634

Control versus Control matches are always so exciting. And it just gets better if one or both decks has some graveyard recursion.

>Turn 8+
>Huge mana bases on both sides
>Well stocked hands with a graveyard ready to be used again
>A chump blocker or two
>And Planeswalkers on the field building up loyalty
>It's all about who blinks or bluffs first

I remember so many of those games vividly while all the times I played some form of Combo or Agro I just remember the few extreme highs where I managed to pull my perfect hand.

>>52456454
sauce

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>>52456389
Means it represents an event in the story.

>>52456460
Well, shit.

>>52456480
It also means it's objectively shit
Seriously, pretty much all the "lore" cards are trash. And that's not even referring to the lore itself

>>52454755
>Blue has access to destroy

Your words, blue has TWO monoblue destroy effects that aren't offshoots of the Blue vs Red rivalry. Pongify and Rapid Hybridization, and both give the opponent a 3/3, so still extremely narrow. Arguably Teferi's Response as well, but much more narrow.

Exile I can only think of a few as well, Curse of the Swine and Reality Shift are the only ones that I can think of

>>52456375

When an agro deck pulls an optimal hand they can just vaporize you before you have a chance to establish anything: much like when a Control deck pulls an optimal hand against you and shuts down your tempo and gains board control.

Both situations are difficult if not impossible to come back from. Yet one is considered to be the absolute bane of existence and one is perfectly fine.

>>52454755
>Blue has access to destroy and exile
Literally what?

>>52454350
You're delusional if you thought counterspell based control would exist in standard.

This snake is a tool for the EDH kiddies, and that's about it.

>>52456375
>every deck can stop t2 infect

>>52456538
Probably because if you pit optimal situation A vs. optimal situation B there, the control player wins.

>>52456573
>his deck can't

>>52455898
Not the same anon, but it sounds like he's butthurt that blue has the ability to say no before any other color. Being able to stop any and every etb trigger with counter spells is amazing, but blue only has bounce as pseudo-removal and counterspells as almost removal.
Not having actual good board control and only stack control will not favor the blue player, which is a downside I'm fine with if blue got some decent counterspells now and again

>>52455770
michael penis doesn't lie

>>52456601
Get your fake CCG bullshit out of here, or at least learn how to template and word effects properly.

>>52456576
Nah, more like playing control is perceived as the better/smarter player which isn't always the case.

>>52456601
Nice try

>>52456601
>mono blue instant number 249/269
Come on man get it toghether

>>52456576

It depends on the format. Like right now in Standard I wouldn't bet on the Control player.

And that's partly why we're here. The balance between threats to answers is already favored quite heavily for threats and we're getting two new mechanics that only push it further and NOW we see yet another threat that further stifles answers.

>>52456505

>Disallow
>Shit

>>52456681
>sees fringe mainboard play in one okay deck in standard
>not shit

>>52456601
>egyptian desert set
>literal ocean
Who the fuck are you trying to fool

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Mono blue is not OP in standard no modern. I don't play enough legacy to comment on that.

Does it suck to get counter spelled? Yes. Can counterspells win a game (by themselves)? No.

>>52456522
>has TWO monoblue destroy effects that aren't offshoots of the Blue vs Red rivalry.

Sirens Call, Pongify, Rapid Hybridization, Winter's Chill, Giant Albatross, Teferi's Response, Merfolk Assassin, Musician, Knight of the Mists, Ovinomancer, Polymorph.

Bit more then two.

>>52454495
consider that, despite all these anti-counterspell cards and mechanics, land destruction is still the most hated mechanic by wizards today and across the game's history

>mfw we'll never see a standard LD deck again

fuck wizards and fuck midrange, the gathering

>>52456732
>tfw three new LD effects are getting spoiled soon
>one of them is on a land
whoops spoilers~

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>>52456664
>>52456657
>>52456620

Shit man, I'm just a fucking dog on the internet, cut me some slack
I'm only in it for the "you"s. Also, MSE is ass for formatting set numbers.

>>52456691
Egypt has water access.

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HOLY SHIT GUYS

>>52455689
Not the same anon, but how many walkers are actually played in Modern? Liliana, Chandra ToD, Nahiri, Sorin SV (In Esper control or BW tokens), Ajani Vengeant (RW Prison)

I'm not excusing the dumb kitchen table players, but most decks don't want/need/or even care about walkers. Once you become more competitive focused though, you have to learn the fuckers.

>>52453880
nut bustin

>>52456256
It's only unplayable because there isn't a single fucking control deck outside of legacy (and miracles wouldn't give a fuck about this thingy anyway because lolterminus)

This thing just takes a grotesque steaming shit on top of control's grave. Can't be countered, passive upside, p/t too high for a 3 drop. It's just fucking stupid

>>52456750
>>52456750

show us dummy

>>52456816
>4 mana and sac a land to counter one (1) thing
otherwise just wastes
maybe worth

>>52456816
Please apply to wizards, I want you to replace maro.

>>52456876
>uncounterable counter
>maybe worth
Stifle and disallow don't exist

>>52456886
You'd want to talk to Tiago then, this was his card before he pushed for Snapcaster.

>>52456762
>Egypt has water access.
Sure, the Nile. But Cairo is 100 miles from the sea, and guess what Naktamun's based on?

>>52456719
>Does it suck to get counter spelled? Yes. Can counterspells win a game (by themselves)? No.

I'm guessing you've never played against an actual draw-go counter control deck. Luckily they no longer exist in any format.

>>52456892
for 4 mana
and saccing a land
to be slightly better in control mirror matches
sure man

>>52456955
>and saccing a land

Read The Fake Card

>>52456719
Siren's Call : Can be completely avoided
Winter's Chill : Can be completely avoided
Giant Albatross : Can be completely avoided
Merfolk Assassin : Too situational to be any good unless in the Merfolk mirror match, but I'll concede that one.
Musician : Way too slow and can be avoided
Knight of the Mists : Same as Merfolk assassin, way too situational but I will concede that point
Ovinomancer : Okay, yeah, you got me there.
Polymorph : I usually think of Ploymorph as a self combo card, but I'll concede that point too.

There are more than two, you got me there, but of the ones you listed, none of them are "Hard removal" (Don't concede something for your opponent to gain kinda stuff, like polymorph, "Oh no, my goyf! Oh, hey, a Siege Rhino.")

Also, of all the ones I had missed, only three of them were modern legal, and not a single one was playable in today's modern format.

I'm not advocating for blue to gain hard removal in any sense of the manner. I would like to see blue gain back some good cantrips and new counterspells that don't suck donkey cock
Metallic rebuke is pretty cool though

>>52456892
yeah this actually gets countered by stifle and voidslime effects, while last word/counterflux/overwhelming denial can't be countered at all and cost either the same or less

the only thing this has going for it is versatility (if you don't need a counter, you can use it as a wastes)

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>new Gideon in this set is called "of the Trials"
>People who succeed in the Trials die to be reborn under God-Pharoh Nicol Trump's control

do you think Gideon might actually die this block?

>>52455877
>we're never gonna get one-mana mana-dorks again
JUST

>>52457030
JEWST

>>52457027
>WotC killing of one of their vaguely brown MCs
never gonna happen.

>>52456940
early draw-go decks had at least 1 real win condition, either rainbow efreet or masticore or morphling or just 4x faerie conclave. the later versions were actually the worse ones since they used shit like nephalia drownyard as their win cons, or even worse just elixir of immortality.

>>52453880

Pushed as shit. Good grief, I thought they were going to stop this crap.

>>52457060

I played against a penny dreadful deck the other day that won with Elixir or Stalking Stones.

This caused some difficulties for my combo deck.

>>52453880
>3 mana
>can't be countered
>turns on ferocious

just stubborn denial their removal spell and this thing will single-handedly take over the game

>>52457060
>or just won with elixir of immortality
I have to do this now

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>>52453880
reminds me of another card that nobody played

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>>52455608
kys retard, in that case every color has counterspells.

>>52457135
Back then it's the existence of Elixir and Sphinx Revelation that enable this.

>>52457060
Oh yeah finisher-less control is the worst. I remember some players putting in one or two Psychic Spiral just to deal with it.

>>52457135
it was pretty awful to play against, but it won the pro tour at that time

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7946&d=245712&f=ST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8vq7GxCg2o

>"what are we going to see in this historic final?"
>"we're going to see a lot of nothing"

>>52457154

You're trying to compare a tri-coloured 5 cmc card to a 3 cmc mono coloured card.

>>52456107
Yeah, the change in all my lgs is weird. In Theros-Khan's block, 30+ for standard with almost hardly enough to launch modern or legacy. Now it's hardly enough to launch standard, with 16+ people playing modern, 8-10 for legacy and like 2-3 pods playing 4 way commander

>>52456458
774.

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>>52457086
Pushed right into the bulk bin
>Pic sort of related

>>52457163
>l i t e r a l colorshift
Oh I guess green is great at drawing cards with spells
TIME SPIRAL WAS A MISTAKE

>>52457232
Green does have some cool card draw spells, but they do usually ask you to have some creatures on the field first.

>>52457232
>Time Spiral wasn't the best thing ever
yOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH

>>52457232
Green was a poor choice because shit like shamanic revelation and soul's majesty. The only color with basically 0 card draw, even at a conditional level, is white.

>>52457027
>Nicol Trump

Red-pilled, wish you were "Lead-pilled"

>>52457231
It's actually worse right now because 4c saheeli and mardu vehicles have a meta share of more than 75% it's crazy really. This shit just goes to show WotC incompetence when designing new sets and I can't tell if its either because their talented designers are abandoning ship or because the team is too pressured with the new release schedule of Large-Small-Large-Small sets.

>>52457231
>Implying they're not gonna ban Heart and Felidar now that Kaladesh if out of print and Revolt has sold it's due.
It's time to buy new crack goy.

>>52457232
>TIME SPIRAL WAS A MISTAKE
I want MaRo to leave.

>>52456876
It has to be in your hand to function.

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>>52455693
>Magic Set Editor tier fake

>>52457289
It's because MaRo is too fucking anal with NWO and the color pie.
Doom Blade alone would let BG Delirium and UB Zombies to compete against cars and cats but "It's too good for Standard", "players feel bad when their splashy mythics are destroyed by effective commons", and other lispy excuses.

>>52457200
better comparison would be boon satyr, which saw quite a bit of play in standard (this could see more play since it dodges shock and 1 galvanic bombardment)

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>>52457297
>Thinking a legendary crew 3 does nothing on its own artifact is the problem and not the combination of the strongest planeswalker in standard, best removal colors, and unkillable machine

>>52456762
>Not Trap type.

God Damn it wizards, you had ONE job.

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>>52457308
for you

>>52457360
it's fake

>>52457347
saheeli is not the strongest planeswalker in standard, gideon is. before aether revolt, saheeli was considered complete trash. the combo is the only thing that makes saheeli playable.

>>52457154
He's my commander!

>>52457327
>It's because MaRo is too fucking anal with NWO and the color pie.
>Doom Blade alone would let BG Delirium and UB Zombies to compete against cars and cats

Doom Blade has no relation to NWO or the color pies whatsoever, and MaRo is still not the person who decides what removal is too powerful for Standard.

>>52457381
Do you run the bear punch card?

>>52457378

He was talking about Gideon,so I don't know why you wrote that post.