/HHG/ The Horus Heresy General

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First for the VII

If I were to consider adding a few SoS to Custodes to bump the model count up a little, what is worth considering?

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something something holy shit your blood is horrifiying

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>>52434862
That it'd make you loyalist scum

>>52434862
The sword sisters are a little better than the bolter sisters, though I like how the latter look.

The only thing to definitely avoid is the +20 point meltagun upgrade on BS2 dogs. Give them flamers. And definitely take those transports.

Is the humble bundle $15 for the first(How many are there anyway?) HH novels worth it?

>>52434836
>>52434862
Assuming you don't have to fuck about with troops tax, Krole and her raptor guard seem pretty good. The transport's a decent gunship after it's dropped them off as well.

>>52434885

Chaostodes When?

>>52434926
If you're worried about the cost just pirate them ffs

>>52434945

I don't disagree that that seems like a great unit, though adding more Melee to Custodes seems a little redundant.

There's a unit that can take all grenade launchers, is that any good?

Rolled the dice, good summary...A proper bread! That's a signal... angelus shall make /HHG/ great again

>>52434949
The new Custodes codex establishes that whena Custodes feels depressed and unworthy of guarding his corpse he takes off his armor and roams the galaxy in a black cloak

basically chaos emo custodes

>>52434962
I'm more worried about quality. Are they actually any good? I'm a serious oldfag, my HH knowledge is buried in 3rd edition 40k.

Also, I really wish SoS seeker cadres could take assault needlers, or generally that excutiatus cadres were HS with an option for HQ in small games. Such a lovely little gun, but a nuisance to get into the army if you're not running pure sisters.

>>52434989

That seems less Chaos, more Wandering Jew.

One has to wonder how eight foot tall hyperbuff guys in black cloaks pass amongst the citizenry.

>>52434862
Just make sure you take the SoS dedicated transport alongside the unit of chicks, so your custodes have an assault vehicle they can ride in.

>>52434990
>Are they actually any good?
A couple, scattered here and there like diamonds in a sea of glass, with a few decent ones also here and there like quartz. But 60% of them are just medicore or shit.

Malcador was a bigger loss to the post-heresy imperium than Sanguinius. Prove me wrong.

Protip: you should clean your teeth every day.

>>52434990
The early ones are better, generally the HH has gotten worse the more they try to stretch it but there are some gems here and there.

>>52435043
They played Infiltration games where the objective was to infiltrate the palace under the watchful gaze of the Custodians, and some made it.
If they can do so, hiding amongst the populace wouldn't be too hard.
Also they're 7'3", not 8'

>>52435089
With no Femarchs, death was a release to him. Goodnight, sweet prince.

>>52435094

>7'3 not 8

Eh, Custodes are visibly a head taller than marines, who are usually described as 7 foot.

>>52434926
>$1 bundle
Yep, totally.
>$8 bundle
Eh. There's some stinkers in there. I probably wouldn't get this tier.
>$15 tier
Yeah, this is probably worth it, if you don't want to pirate.

If you do get it, I'd recommend reading:
>horse riding
>false gods
>galaxy in flames
>flight of the eisenstein
>legion
>mechanicum
>a thousand sons
>first heretic
>prospero burns
...and maybe only bother with the rest if you're especially bored.

>>52435184
Hey, Know No Fear, Scars and Path of Heaven are great book.

>>52435184
>horse riding
well i guess a lot of the problems for the traitors could be explained by either too much or not enough stimulation

also nemesis is amazing

>>52434926
>Emperor's Will
>no Emperor's Might

Is there already some ebook version of that in existence, because I've seen it in one of the Megas as well, but never the Might.

>>52435043
>One has to wonder how eight foot tall hyperbuff guys in black cloaks pass amongst the citizenry.
They have a lot of practice at being sneaky; they are trained in the arts of assassination - both improvised and advanced - in order to counter possible assassination attempts to the Emperor.
And, when you think about the palace, and that most militaries use their own men to be an opfor (plus the abilities you'd need to meaningfully test a custodes), a fair bit of custodes time will be spent creeping round the imperial palace trying to get the jump on other custodes. Possibly while still in their armour.

And they occasionally infiltrate noble houses from time to time

And, if they do get detected, what exactly is the detector going to do about it.
Even if they don't have any authority, they're still a custodes, what are you going to do, arrest them?

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>>52435132
Considering the Custodian "spear" is 4 meters long, the one in this pic would be about 7'3", possibly more.
But perhaps the picture is wrong, which wouldn't be a surprise.

>>52435207
They are, but they're not in the bundle as far as I can tell. But yeah, this >>52434926 anon should totally make those three their next acquisitions after they finish what's in the bundle, along with Vengeful Spirit.

Also, most of the short story/novella anthologies are worth reading IMO (and if nothing else the bad books are over quicker) but you shouldn't start with those as you won't know what the fuck's going on without some sort of framework.

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/03/29/your-new-medical-kit/

>Lectitio Divinitatus
>Due to our original shipment of texts being lost in Warp transit, you have been issued with an older edition book on correct practices for Imperial faith written by <<ALL RECORDS DELETED>>.

Painting Sisters of Silence
Regular brassy gold or neat shiny silver?

>>52435458
That's one of the things I like the most about the whole grimdark setting - how even traitor primarchs made things which influenced the Imperium for the next 10k years.

>>52434990
They're mostly good. You won't like all of them, but Horus Rising, Galaxy in Flames, A Thousand Sons, and First Heretic (which you must follow up with Betrayer) are popular. Flight of the Eisenstein is half boring, half great. I loved Fulgrim but some people hate it.

Fallen Angels is alright if you're okay with a pre-Heresy story, Nemesis is good if you like assassin stories, Legion is good if you focus on the Imperial Army part of it... they're pretty different from the rest of the series.

Garro isn't badly written but I find him a boring character. Macragge's Honour isn't great writing, but it's a cool graphic novel so who cares.

The good ones that aren't on that list are Know no Fear, Angel Exterminatus, Betrayer, Scars, The Path of Heaven, and maaaaaaaaaybe Master of Mankind (it's more "important" than "good"). Praetorian of Dorn if you like the Imperial Fists. The Imperium Secundus arc was not great.

>>52435500
Go for a darker bronze.

>>52435561
Imperium Secundus Namek was about the worst thing to happen to the series.

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>>52435313
Here, let me answer that for you: Each of them is close to nine feet tall.

>>52435561
Speaking as a IF-guy, Praetorian of Dorn was pointless, contrived shit and completely unnecesary.

>>52435744
Shut up, Omegon. Go cry about your brother.

>>52435705
Being that tall just seems impractical. It would mean Custodes are easily countered by having small humansized doorways in your bunkers.

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Is this accurate?

>>52435089
Read Blood Game anon

>>52435848
I always knew my Primarch was the best.
Commies deserve only one free service- a one way helicopter ticket.

>>52435744
The whole book, or just the end?

I was really enjoying it up to that point, but I'm more of an AL fan.

>>52435830
>small doors keep big Custotards outside

Right. Because they could never, in no way imaginable, get inside to you by simply tearing a bigger entrance with their stupid weapons. How stupid to think of such in the first place...

>>52435830
I heard they get trained in the ancient art of "Ducking Down", though that might be a special rule or fluff shenanigan or something.

>>52435886
Fuck off Tripfag faggot.

>>52435848
>>52435886
>Pinochet
>Best

The comparison cracks me up because both were bitches following orders.

>>52435909
well it's not that ideal in battlefield situations to be a large target, but their armour is so superior and they are meant to make a statement about the Emperor's will so they probably don't give a fuck.

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>>52435705
I don't like it when these new proportions. Humans are orks, it seems. Did GW drink the 8 foot kool aid as well? Marines being 8', Custards being 9', Primarchs being 10'?
>The Custodian Guard were created from the flesh and blood of the Master of Mankind
>We know they're made through alchemy rather than geneseed
Doubt.jpeg

>>52436067
Right. If that argument would apply to imperial tactics, there would be no dreads, titans, knights...or maybe Astartes in the first place.

>>52436131
well armour is hyper effective in 40k, well beyond today's capabilities. We don't usually have walkign artillery pieces since digging in to earth embankments provides better cover than any armour we can cover something with. With titans, they have better armour than virtually anything they could be hiding behind.

>>52435848
>Fulgrim
>De Gaulle

My sides just hit orbit

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>>52436067
Listen, I don't agree with this 8'+ bullshit, but armour advancing more than firepower means this is truth. That's why marines aren't desperate for cover like guardsmen are, this is why a power sword is a better weapon than an automatic rifle that shoots minirpgs.

>>52436186
Thank you, Cpt. Obvious.

You know what?
[may contains spoilers - attention: plottwist!!!]

The offensive weapons in 40k and 30k are more destructive and powerful too.

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>>52436113
> Bob and Blonde are twice as tall as normal humie
> DP Magnus is twice as tall as Bob

Is Magnus a Titan sized or something?

>>52436328
Well his model is around as tall as a Imperial Knight, and that is without the extra hight the wings add.

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>>52434835
Even the DG icon is sad! What's this feeling I feel? Akin to IW bitterness but in a DG way

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>>52436328
Knight sized

>>52436328
> Saint Celestine: I got this big ass Greater Daemon
> manlet inquisition bitch: o..okay... I'll get a horror
Malcador weeps in his death bed (or whatever urn they put his ashes in)

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>>52436459
In the meantime, Cawl's just "Screw all of you, I'm doing the Tusken Raider dance because I'm invincible anyway". He's probably right, they can't statistically hurt him. ABBADON can't statistically hurt him. He just needs to dodge the Sorcerors with Force Axes and he's golden. Oh wait, they don't get those anymore, so he's just chillin'.

>>52434977
it's a heavy support slot in the talons list. it's also a bit expensive for what you're getting.

honestly I think the best use of sisters is to just take three of the cheap shooty troops and give them infiltrate. that lets you keep your custodes units fairly beefy while still having some extra msu scoring potential.

they're honestly pretty cheap for what you get, even without the anti-psyker stuff. S/T3 isn't too terrible when they'rel WS/BS4 with a 3+ and Fearless.

>>52436510
Is he a clone Scoria or something?

>>52436328
his model is about the size of a knight, so... yeah, kinda.

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>>52434885
>"If you kill Guilliman on Calth, Horus will lose the Heresy"
>Horus loses the Heresy anyway

Was Kairos Fateweaver just fucking with Lorgar for the lulz?

>>52436531
He regains D3 wounds at the start of each of your turns for starters. And gets re-rolls for his FnP as a warlord trait.

>>52436557
He didn't say Horus was gonna win if he didn't kill Guilliman?

>>52436557
Let me think ...

>Tzeentch daemon

Yes, it was for the lulz.

>>52436531
Nah, but close. Basically Scoria's supporty cousin, same statline except Cawl has I3 and 5++, but rerollable FnP and no EW. On the upside, he can give his ENTIRE ARMY a 4++ or +3BS, or 3 IWND rolls for one turn each, and regens D3 wounds automatically at the start of each Cawl turn. If you can't put more than one wound per round through T6, 2+/5++, FnP 5++ rerollable, then you can't actually ever kill him without ID.

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>>52436459
When he sat upon the Throne, his body was ravaged by the intensity of it, but in his last moments he saw the future.
He saw it held promise.
The promise of THICC angry women.
Yes, the Imperium would survive.
And so, he died with a smile on his lips.

>>52436557
>Kairos Fateweaver
One head speaks the truth, the other speaks lies, and both are equally believable. So...

>>52436596
Scoria was a fucking mistake.
He's the fastest strongest, most damaging Magos and has a pseudo Cortex Primus relic power.
Meanwhile, fuck Decima, Draykavac and Satarael.
It's alright, I've lost hope in FW anyway.

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I'm really looking forward to start painting World Eaters soon, just need to wait for Missouri anon's package to arrive.

>>52435975
>In the grimdark future, only the very best warriors of Mankind know how to duck
That would explain why the IG has so many casualties.

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>>52436580
>>52436646
But both heads agreed on that point

>>52436601
Are those real wings like Blondie or fake like his Sang Guards?

>>52436113
Humans always were taller than standard ork though. It's because of the fagt that ork are like Imps, their heads are between their shoulders, not above like us. Bigfer ork straighten up in the process of their growth and that already makes a big difference.

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>>52436557
ADB writes that. Don't be suprised if Traitors will win heresy since old fluff is no longer canon.

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>>52436724
>Humans always were taller than standard ork though
Precisely, guardsman! They're weakly creatures that can't stand a chance against the cold steel* of an imperial bayonete!
>*Steel unavailable, ceraplastic bayonetes will be issued

>>52436328
Why is Magnus fighting a Tzeentch DP?

>>52436596
Well fuck me. Cawl is also the character I like the most in the serie for now. Like Arkhan Land, a Mechanicus guy who's still pragmatic enough to get shit done, for the good of Humanity.

What are the restrictions to use him? He can't be that powerful and not be used all the time. How much does he cost?

>>52436654
>Small 30k tournament I went to banned primarchs and "primarch level characters"
>Both IF players had sigismund and one of the three AdMech had Scoria

It's a good thing I learned how to keep a straight face a long time ago. There was also a RG who had cameleoline on his veteran sergants and a IF player who had solarite power gauntlets on every single terminator. Armylists were supposedly checked, but I seriously doubt that.

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>>52436773
Survival of the fittest, only the Tzeentchian Tzupreme may lead

>>52436703
Fateweaver didn't say NOT killing Bob will make him win the war. So technically he didn't lie.

> Kill Bob = auto lose
> not kill Bob = you can win or lose

>>52436654
He's not the fastest, by a long way. He's slower than a GUARDSMAN. Everything else, yeah. I would say he may be a mistake, but he's what Cybernetica needed.

Either way, I play Traitor Reductor, so I have no relevant named characters who are any good anyway> It's great crushing Herohammer Primarch lists with nothing unique at all.

>>52436681
Noob here. I can't seem to find the rules for chainaxes for 40k or 30k. Cab I just replace Assault squads chainswords by Chainaxes (because I like the look of them) and be done with it or does it play a role on the statline like in 30k where there are better (I think)?

>>52436654
and he doesn't have a model yet with no prototype for a model in sight
that said, as powerful as he is, he has to footslog and gets -1 to run and charge because of hardened armour (90% of people forget that abeyant = hardened armour). as long as you can afford to just stay away from him and shoot him his deathstar unit doesn't accomplish much. easier said than done with some armies, I know, but that's the tactic that works against him.

while not necessarily relevant against scoria in particular it's worth noting how brutal Custodes jetbikes with adrathic things are versus robutts in general. while it's only S6 vs T7 it's AP2 and instant death, so as soon as you roll a wound it's 5++ or they lose 4 wounds and about 120 -140 points of Castellax. they're also just flat out way the fuck faster so they're not going to get charged and get to take assaults on their own terms.

>>52436794
honestly, allowing scoria if you're banning primarchs is pretty dumb even if you're just looking at point cost. if an HQ costs more than 300 points it's kind of obvious they're going to be brutal

>>52436779
200 points. He's just an HQ.

>>52436804
>Initiative 5 with a D3 Autowound weapon
What's the word I should use then, "quickest"?

>>52435561
>Nemesis is good
I'm reading it right now, and I'm not really a fan. This is going to be a really odd criticism for a novel but: the main characters are too characterful. Like, I'm really struggling to believe these are some of the most exquisitely trained operatives in the galaxy when they're bickering and having human worries like they're the scooby gang. Should we put civilians at risk to get a chance at the target? Gee, I dunno, it's not like you're a FUCKING ASSASSIN FOR WHOM COMPLETING THE MISSION IS EVERYTHING or something.

>>52436328
>>52436795
I like how the art has Guilliman's bolter to the side so he can actually punch with it.

>>52436807
Chainaxes are in the Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List book, they're +1S AP4. So, generally you only want to be modeling them in 30k if you can actually take them in 30k since they are quite a step up from a generic CCW/chainsword.

>>52436769
Not bayonnette anymore, the standard issue bonesaw is your bayonete now!
https://regimental-standard.com/2017/03/29/your-new-medical-kit/

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>>52436769
It reminded me of How to KO bear 101. Pic related.

>>52436850
>the standard issue bonesaw
Don't you mean your trusty muti-use IMPERIAL SPORK :^) ?
I want a chainspork now.

>>52436815
Well damn. That's one hell of a bonus. I use Tyberos and he's nowhere near as strong or with bonuses that important. And he's a FW character! Albeit from several editions ago.

>>52436779
200 points, can go in any HQ choice in any Army of the Imperium, or replace a Dominus in any Cult Mech or mixed Mech/Skitarii formation. His buffs only apply to units with Canticles or units of friendly Imperium vehicles within 12" of him, not everyone, but in a normal Admech army that's pretty much everyone anyway.

>>52436816

Highest I, really. It's such a specific stat it's hard to just use a regular word, like how T value isn't everything about durability.

>>52436812

My Archimandrite is 355 points, all the toys, and noone's complained. I think the named characters at that point, bar Inar, are all pretty insane by default, but any generic that high has weaknesses like no EW most of the time.
Scoria is perfect for stopping massive Primarchstars just YOLOing down the middle and being boring as hell, and I love him for that, but he's not particularly good against a non-gimmick list in the first place because he's SLOWWWWW.

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>>52436864
I've always known bears are brutal killing machines, but since watching Revenant I've been genuinely scared. Do Imperial assassins cause Fear?

>>52436864
That's pretty cruel. Don't theme park attendants suffer enough already?

>>52436812
The fun thing was that none of the admech ended in the top 3, and neither did the illegal armylists. There still is some justice in this world it seems.

>>52436848
Thanks buddy. I'll keep that in mind and give them to my Carcharodons rather than my IW then.

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>>52436908

>>52436720
Given that her old model didn't have them and flew through the power of piety and on the new model they look ornamental...

They're probably real wings that the Emperor made her grow but she's not a mutant because reasons.

>>52436912
I think they do actually have rules for 40k as well, they're just not nearly as good. They're like AP5 or AP4 or something? Either way you should probably check it first, but 40k can often be a lot looser with marine conversions so it's not as big of a deal.

>>52435744
I dunno dude, I enjoyed Dorn handing Alpharius his arse.

>>52436908
TANOSHIIIIIII

Can't Scoria outflank with Vorax?

>>52435744
Was dying part of Alpharius' plan?

>>52436974
Chaos marines can get chainaxes for 3 points.

And they just give AP 4.

>>52436952
well, if she's powered by her faith and the faith of the imperium in the emperor on mankind then perhaps she ended up with wings because enough worshippers heard about her story and assumed she had them? I mean, she is kind of like a daemon of emperor worship - powered by faith and emotion, can die but always ends up coming back, exists as a literal manifestation of their beliefs and whatnot, etc.

the obvious explanation is just that the model should have had wings in the first place and most people converted them on, so when GW redid her they paid attention to her more popular portrayals

>>52435744
As an IW, I liked the smug pepe Alpharius getting utterly BTFO by the stoic, mocked by many, Dorne.

It's the establishment kicking the Anonymous fedora shitposters in the teeth and telling him to shit the fuck up. It's bloody perfect.
Order over smug cunts. What's not to like?

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>>52437046
>It's the establishment kicking the Anonymous fedora shitposters in the teeth and telling him to shit the fuck up. It's bloody perfect.
>Order over smug cunts. What's not to like?

>>52436997
Yeah, yes he can, but that's at best a Turn 3 Charge unless you are allying him into an army with Perturabo, and in the meantime you've sent your 550pt CC Primarchstar deterrent off to fuck around looking for platinum truffles in the data forest or something, and half the reason you buy him is for his buffs and 18" "Enemy will not move ANYTHING here" bubble you slowly crawl towards him with.
Good tactic in a very large or Apoc game, though, since it can happen T1 and people may well miss him executing everything remotely dangerous on their backline in the chaos.

>>52437046
Go back to /pol/, reddit.

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>>52437107
Well that's a bit complicated.
I just like the idea of a smug cunt who thinks of himself of a super mastermind, even more so against the stoic, quiet dude that everyone think is dumdumb, beung completely destroyed by said stoic dude.

It's like the "lazy but smart" deluded fucko realising in his 30's that he hasn't done anything worthwhile, whereas the quiet autist worked his ass off and succeeded. Karma and all that. That's it, I like it because it's Karma.

>>52436823
Nemesis justifies itself in terms of its structure. That alone gives it a pass as 'decent'. Anything after that is up to the reader's like of build-the-team tropes and procedural / horror writing.

>>52437105
> Primarch deterrent
> I Primarch you todoite kono omoi

>>52436908
No. They dont.

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>>52437204
>I just like the idea of a smug cunt who thinks of himself of a super mastermind, even more so against the stoic, quiet dude that everyone think is dumdumb, beung completely destroyed by said stoic dude.

>>52437349
Someone got diddled by Mickey.

>>52437357
POL STAY IN POL
Fuck get out of here. I play with plastic space man's to ESCAPE not have this shit always dragged in here by you fucking trash.
MOOOODDDDDSS

>>52437357
Trump was the opposite of stoic, but I didn't see it that way lmao. It would have fit perfectly if Clinton had won imo

>>52437369
YOU DON'T KNOW ME

>>52437204
And if that had been build up at any point I could see that, but in PoD the buildup was forced like hell and came out of nowhere at the cost of everybody involved behaving like morons. Not to mention it being a very transparent way to get rid of the AL civil war stuff in a hurry, provide a climactic Primarch-on-primarch fight with *real consequences* and give Dorn some credit he honestly didn't need in the first place.
Honestly, everybody involved came out of this looking a lot worse.
>inb4 It's BL, so of course it's garbage.
I know that, but it's still sad that that is what this has come to.

>>52437401
Was it Donald then?

>>52437427
A very valid argument.

>>52434815
>>BREXIT WITH TITANS
>http://www.mediafire.com/file/sc266oa6al1jb7o/the-binary-succession.mp3

Missing the last 5 minutes. Anyone has the fixed version?

>>52437012
Of course! Dr. Dorn accepted the Emperor's offer in favor of our own. He was there to learn what he told him

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>>52437509
Nothing. I told them nothing.

>>52437427
The buildup was the whole book m8.

And who acted like morons? Alpharius for going into single combat with Dorn? That was his plan all along.

It's funny, Deliverance Lost involved some absurd coincidences (the AL wouldn't have achieved shit without Gav basically opening all the doors for them) and that's apparently fine, but as soon as something shows the AL in a bad light it's "bad writing".

>>52437436
Snow White.

>>52437606
Is "Bad Writing" the new "Fake News"?

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>>52437568

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>>52437696

>>52437668
>>52437606
So I'm the anon who is an editor in my day job, and while
>opinions
are always a thing, the only 'bad writing' claim I'd personally even entertain with the Dorn v Mememan fight is that it could be said to neither be short enough to be shocking or long enough to be a whole epic setpiece of the book.
It feels a little like it just happens and the plot moves on, despite it being the death of a Primarch.
However, from a technical standpoint, at least to me, the set-up and prose of the fight is completely fine and even has some better than 'acceptable' elements to it.

Additionally, people itt are normally quite on the money where it comes to critiquing the books, unless they are blatantly butthurt - so this isn't targeted at anyone here - but in terms of 'bad writing' people need to learn how to analyse books beyond youtube film critic 'this part of the plot is stupid' levels if they want their opinion to be authoritative.

>>52437805
English not being my first language, how do you know if some prose is good or not? Like some very basic stuff that must or shouldn't be there. The dos and don'ts.

>>52437805
Are you the guy who did those analyses of the BL authors on here a while back? I liked that guy.

>>52437805
>but in terms of 'bad writing' people need to learn how to analyse books beyond youtube film critic 'this part of the plot is stupid' levels if they want their opinion to be authoritative.
Do I have to slightly change the color of my wall fracturing my fanbase and polarizing the internet at large, too?

>>52437427
This is another dumb question so apologies if it's already been asked a million times in /hhg/, but what exactly was Alpharius hoping to achieve?

>>52437878
Yeah, that was me.
>>52437856
On a technical level, correct use of punctuation is a must, grammar is important but not a dealbreaker, skillful use of both descriptive writing and imagery.
Beyond that you get into talent and ability, which an editor shouldn't influence beyond talking with the author and trying to develop the work. This is where characterisation comes in.
Like in the Dorn vs Alpharius, the bit where Alpharius is like 'we need to talk' and Dorn just responds with a command to his men to open fire.
>>52437931
Take or leave anything I say with whatever grains of salt or canisters of phosphex you like my man. While any criticism is based around opinion and so can be immediately countered with 'I don't agree', opinion that sounds like the person knows what they're talking about carries more weight.
Fortunately, as I say, people in this general - when not memeing - generally give good opinion.

>>52438000
So what is your opinion on Master of Mankind? I've seen it as the most hated of all ADB's books for many reasons, though writing wise it seems competent.

>>52437953

It's cute that you think the Alpha Legion know what they're trying to achieve.

>>52437953
We don't know. Alpharius wouldn't be Alpharius if we knew what he was doing.

>>52438047
I was also the guy who greentexted the whole thing itt, if you remember that. I think I summed up with something like 'it's well written but you can guess 80% of the content if you know the pre-existing fluff and have read some ADB before'. From the pov of an editor I'd call it a good book.
From a fan pov I pretty much agree with the crits that some of it is a little cringe, particularly the end parts. The stuff he added about Drach'nyen is a little tryhard, but it was set up and developed so that it didn't come out of left-field in the book, even though it was a bit wtf in terms of the wider lore.
The primarch numbering, we've been over. Leaving aside the wider implications, the scenes in the book justify it with the viewpoints and character biases described.

>tl;dr - well written, questionable fluff developments

What if Alpharius is the loyalist primarch and he wanted Dorn in on the plan to crush Horus in Terra?

>>52436740
Is one of the earlier points a dig at Argal Tal? Because he was made from the very sound position that those famous post-heresy weren't always the same as those within heresy and vice versa. Also, no tension at all when every main character is someone you know who lives.

Also,

>only white men are allowed in my heresy

kek

>>52436557
>>52436646
>>52436703
Fateweaver said if he killed Guilliman, victory would come to CHAOS, not Horus.

Guilliman dying would have probably seen Horus won, and then Horus would have gone crazy from regret and killed off humanity (depraving Chaos of its food source) just as the Cabal predicted

The Imperial "victory" = 10,000 years of decay = Chaos thrives

Subtext folks

>>52438163
Yeah, just what the majority agrees on about ADB. We like how he writes, but not what he writes.

>Alpharius' plan

So he sets up the entire scheme to show his legion / personal superiority over Dorn and the Fists, and then arranges a meeting through subterfuge and pissing the other guy off, full-well knowing that they're in a civil war, and willfully engages in a duel.

Two obvious conclusions.
1) He wanted to actually defeat Dorn and complete the demonstration of superiority, but 'on his terms'. Like one of those fantasies where you tell the guy you don't like how much of a prick you think he is while you beat him up.

2) He really did want to talk and arrange some kind of entente with Dorn, but still wanted to show off how cool and superior he is - I'm the Captain now - and miscalculated the final result of doing all that to Dorn terribly.

or of course, because it's the Meme Legion
3) who the fuck knows

>>52438170
Alpharius did try to explain things to Dorn on Pluto but Dorn didn't have any of it and just killed him

>>52437953
That's the real problem, isn't it.

I THINK he was trying to tell Dorn that Horus had to win in order for the Emperor's dream of destroying Chaos to come true... not that Dorn would've known what Chaos was, and not that the Emperor would have sacrificed humanity in order to destroy Chaos.

He can't have been trying to just kill Dorn. You don't pull someone bigger than you into an elaborate trap that leaves them vulnerable and then go 1v1 against them. But do you really have to get within arm's reach to speak to them?

>>52437856
Have you read the Ciaphas Cain books? I love them, but the prose is clunky. The sentences are too long - too many clauses strung together with commas. The author also uses the same words or phrases too often. The storytelling is better than the writing.

Dan Abnett's writing style is excellent, but he often runs out of space and rushes his endings. Take Titanicus as an example - there are minor characters he could have deleted, like the retired/mindwiped titan crewman who's now a landscaper, and maybe that would have relieved the pressure on the ending.

James Swallow writes great descriptions of horror scenes, but his good guys are uninteresting and indistinct.

>>52437953
Trying to have Horus win so he can save humanity

>>52438420
Alright, this goes all the way back to Legion, but doesn't that ending destroy humanity as well as destroying Chaos? How could anybody there (i.e. Alpharius) have liked that idea?

>>52438366
>the retired/mindwiped titan crewman
If I remember right, that was a tie-in to a Warhammer comic he wrote, basically that guy was added so fans could see what happened to him after that comic ended.

>>52438447
Clearly Alpharius like 40k Guilliman is pro-xeno waifu.

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>>52438279
I guess that sort of makes sense

>>52438447
I think Eldrad mentions an alternative future in that novella where Ferrus Manus is fighting Exodites in the desert

>>52438366
This is a good post. One thing to add:
>The author also uses the same words or phrases too often.
This, if done skillfully, can actually be an element that raises the standard of a work. Phrase repetition is one of the earliest hallmarks of engaging storytelling, it goes back to at least Homer. When done badly, yes, it is completely awful.

The HH, as a semi-mythic setting, has room for repetition in terms of descriptive imagery: "illuminate me" and its variants, "until next winter" etc. If the rep has poetic or image-based meanings it is generally good prose. If it's just flatly descriptive (Kyme and his 'cerulean blue') it's generally bad.
To stay on Kyme, he understands the idea but has no actual talent in the use. He burns (ha had) through every smithing and fire description he can think of several times in a work, ad nauseam.
From a literary standpoint, 'Vulkan lives' is worse than 'wet leopard growl', even though the latter is more unpleasant to read repeatedly.

>>52438521
Oh, that was why that was there? I only got the Princeps Hekate cameo.

>>52438576
I think it was a tie-in but I could be wrong. It was years ago that I read his stuff, I haven't had that much time to read until recently.

>>52438521
Oh crap, I never mind made that connection! I thought the comic ended with the titan lost on some daemon planet in the warp. That's actually pretty cool. I still would have traded it for a less rushed ending, but otherwise I like it.

>>52438170
Thats most likely what he was trying to tell Dorn hence all of the "victory" talk. He did manage to say some last words to Dorn but who knows what they were

>It was a combination of my idea, and then-editor Christian Dunn’s input. I wanted the Lion to lash out in a moment of stress, Christian suggested it should be Nemiel. The reason was three-fold. Firstly, to confound the expectations of a stereotypical and narratively inevitable confrontation between Nemial and Zahariel, and secondly to show that characters aren’t safe just because they are named or even have a storyline. Lastly, I wanted to hint at the notion that the Lion’s civilisation is a mask he wears, that the beast of the forests still lies in there somewhere trying to escape. This is a theme that I have been developing ever since Angels of Darkness and the consequences of that act start to show themselves in Angels of Caliban.

>Lion is literally an animal
Does this mean Russ fucked him?
Did the Lion take the knot?

>>52439183
Keep your fetishes to yourself holy shit

What would be the best robot to accompany Scoria, or other Archmagos?

>>52435744
I dug the book, it wasn't top their but it was fun to read. The sudden realization Sil was Alpharius when he banked three breachers like it was nothing and couldn't explain how he did it.

Gave some insight into the recruitment for the Fist, which was fucking brutal and explained why they were never had a large body count.

The small bits that gave Dorn of all people a personality.

Biggest qualm was the lack luster fight between Dorn and All, only took a page and a half.

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>>52439285
Beep Boops :^)

>>52439183
Doing something unexpected does not automatically make it good. Stupid idea.

>>52435744
I dunno I thought it characterized Dorn well. i.e. not a jackass

Him raging over Archamus' death was sweet

>>52439287
Honestly I loved the book right until the end. Was great to actually be able to see a ground's eye view of an Alpha Legion Harrowing. End sucked ass though, mostly because it almost seemed like the author said "whoops, that's right, Alpha Legion can't single-handedly win the Solar War, better have all of them spontaneously tard out."

Why didn't Alpharius just make a throwaway clone of himself in PoD like Omegon did in Serpent Beneath?

>>52439385
Because Plot(tm)

>>52439183
Russ bottomed for Lion. Lion asserted his dominance during their fistfight and then pillaged Russ' dark passage.

>>52439183
I honestly thought it was supposed to be based off of the historical account of Alexander the Great killing Cleitus because of an argument.

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>>52439509
>Nemiel, what do you wish for?
>I wish you move away. You're obstucting my aim
>Truly, if I was not the Lion I would like to be Nemiel!
This is how it should have gone

>>52439240
I'm not a furfaggot though

Besides Reductor Conversion Beamer snipers, Lacryaemarta Thrall herders and Enginseer caretakers, is there any other use for Techpriest Auxilia?
Because it's as if there was only one Mechanicus Elite choice: Phased Plasma Secutors

>>52439652
When I saw that thread about giving yourself cancer, I hoped it meant we had heard the last of you. I even poured a little beer on the ground and said "hope this seeps it's way into hell for you"

>>52439652
>>52440079
I love you, Curzefag. Never change.

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>>52440079
>I even poured a little beer on the ground and said "hope this seeps it's way into hell for you"

>building TS army
>acquire 3 Vindicators on the cheap for heavy firepwoer
>watch miniwargaming batrep where TS player basically spams psychic doom rays and blast templates all over the opponent with near impugnity

Well that was a waste of money.

>>52440171
Or now you can use your psychic powers to spam even more explosions. Run axis of dissolution with immovable breachers to hold key points, then use vindicators and witchery to drive the advance forward. Order of Ruin m8, there's a reason Ignis was one of the best characters in the Ahriman books.

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How do my Legio Fureans flames look?

>>52440501
Breddy gud/10

What's an alternative method to gold + Tamiya Clear Red if I don't want my TSons to look like candy?

>>52440501
good/10

>>52440660
Khorne red base with Tamiya Clear red coat will give you a shiny red that's very dark if you still want the shine.
Otherwise I'm going to try Leadbealcher and then gold with darker wash colors before the clear red gets put on

>>52440660
Why don't you want your Sons to look like candy, anon? You too good to put them in vans, is that it? Can't bear to put your precious Thousand Sons in the van and give them away to little kids for free?

You are one sick fuck.

>>52435744
I feel like it was missing 2 chapters at the end. It felt rushes, and Dorn going full berzerker was an odd choice.

I would have perfected if they both got injured and separated from the others. Alpharius has the upper hand and then stops. Alpharius gives a cryptic speech, and allows Dorn to kill him. A chainsword to the chest, while they're embracing like brothers And Dorn slowly lowering Alpharius's body to the ground, with a cryptic content smile on Alpharius' face.

>>52440878
Why undercoat leadbelcher? You can alter the depth of the gold and even recess shade it before the red if you want, though if so be careful of the shading. Use a brown gloss not a black one, the red is translucent so overly dark shading will look like ass through it.
>>52440660
It has to be a warm metallic if you want the candy apple. You can still get shiny red if you do a cool metallic, but then it looks less like the Thousand Sons really should but probably still better than the matte version, yuck.

>>52441150
Sounds like one of my homosexual Japanese animes.

>>52441163
>Why undercoat leadbelcher?
just fiddling with the colors, it's good to experiment

>>52441150
Gay.

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I really want to incorporate a small unit or two or SoS into my Custodes.

How does an Oblivion Knight Centura with an Archaeotech Pistol and MC Paragon Blade with a full squad of Bolter Sisters with a Breaching Charge in a Kharon Pattern Acquistor sound?

Or would it just be better to make the sister squad a Vigilator Cadre with Execution Blades? I'm hesitant with that because it seems redundant with Custodes doing their job better, and having 10 cheap BS 4 Bolters is always welcome.

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>>52441150
L-lewd

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>>52441251
>I'm hesitant with that because it seems redundant with Custodes doing their job better, and having 10 cheap BS 4 Bolters is always welcome.
Pretty much. The difference would be more pronounceable if the main detachment wasn't a Talons army.
Since you're not tailoring against an enemy wapr-heavy army, go with the rule of cool.

>>52436798
Fateweaver is wrong so regularly he needs a new name. Part of me is convinced that chaos isn't half as powerful as it keeps saying it is.

>>52441479
Yeah definitely what I'm thinking. I don't want to min max, I just want fluffy fun that doesn't blow ass

>>52441251
I'd love to get some SoS as well, if only for that fucking dragon dildo, but since I run them as allies, already have a shield captain and Sisters can't be taken without a Sisters HQ, fat chance of that happening.

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>>52440660
This plus optional gloss varnishing of the red at the end.

>>52441525
Then again, it's not as if bolters were going to do shit.
The Sisterly options are some of a mess

>Excruciatus
Nice torturer chicks of Instant death, lots of customization options fitting for an HQ squad, which isn't the same as "champion deathstar" squad
>Oblivion Cadre
Choppy Elite squad
>Vigilators
Choppier but less resilient Troops
>Prosecutors
Bolter bitches, with explosive surprise
>Pursuers
Doggo meme squad
>Seekers
Flamer fems, but Heavy support

Aren't the ones from 40k a single squad that has 3 weapon options so they do the jobs Oblivions, Prosecutors and Seekers do?

>>52441693
40k is all about custom units with varied loadouts, 30k is all about single squads doing one thing and one thing only.

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>>52439378
>‘It... should never have come... come to this... I should have stopped him before it came to this... I failed you.’

>‘You have never failed me, my son.’

>‘I am... not your son, my lord... I am your praetorian.’

>And then the last slice of the past fell into the future, and the darkness and silence became absolute.

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Are two squads of 2 Reductor Medusae overkill?

It'd be like this

kited Archmagos Reductor
Axiarch

2 Ferrox Thallax squads
2 Hammershot Peltast squads

Droplites in Arvus

Imploder Myrmidons in Triaros (both HQs go here)
Two Medusae pairs.

2500pts total, but lacks Vultarax, which led me to think that I'm doing something wrong.

Also, do all Magi wear red? No brown or black robes ever? I remember a white-clad Blanche Magos or something.

>>52441644
I mean if you're playing AoD FOC then you can take them as your potentially fourth HQ, extra troop and transport as per AOD FOC allies.

>>52441839
>Also, do all Magi wear red?
Only Mars compliant ones. Forge World Metalica, for example, uses a reversal of the Martian colour scheme to show their contempt for Mars. Ryza uses orange and black because they apparently really like Halloween.

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>>52441920
Oh, so local Forgeworld colour schemes were a thing in 30k as well?
It just seemed a bit strange that Decima, from the nomadic and independent Ordo Reductor, is also wearing Martian Red.
Also, Ryzan orange a best.

Are 4 Medusae at 2500pts overkill?

>Mortarion hates the warp
>Emperor bans warp fuckery
>Mortarion rebels and teams up with sorcerers
What the fuck was his problem? You just can't please this guy.

>>52441984
Mortarion was always a dour and unpleasant dude. If things were done the way he wanted, but weren't done by his hand or extensions, he hated it.

He felt the Big E cheated him often because he too eventually realized the Emperor was a psyker; a powerful one, but still what he loathed.

I imagine he justified sorcery and such later on because "gifts of the real gods" or some shit. His whole thing was that he was an angry hypocrite.

>>52441984
Mortarion, like Angron, was never loyal. He was always looking for a chance to rebel and Horus gave it to him. Also the Big E wasthe biggest psyker around. Witches get stitches.

>>52441966
>those runes
>black cowl
That's deviant as fuck dude.

And yeah, not everyone was running around with red, though it was largely more powerful forge worlds that wouldn't wear Martian colours, as they had enough sway to get away with it. Unless they're maybe a minor one small enough to avoid Mars' cloying grasp.

What do you mean by Medusae? As in Ordo Reductor artillery things? I'd say that that's plenty, and that you maybe should take a Vultarax, or something for anti-air, as you're severely lacking it.

>>52441984
Still don't know what the fuck Chris Wraight was thinking with that Mortarian shit
>"Jaghatai, even though you were one of the loudest advocates for the Librarius program I'm certain that if you'd just join Horus we'll finally be able to rid the new Imperium of witchery forever!"

I mean fuck, did he go to Jaghatai because Magnus had already turned Morty's offer to purge psykers down?

>>52442131
I get that Khan, the Angel and Mag has ben BFFs, but what were Khan and Sang's reason for pro-psykers?

Is there any positive quality about Horus? Even before he fell?

I was upset that he was using other Legions as meat-shields and glory whoring shit.

>>52442154
Chogorian culture venerates Shamans.
Sanguinius is a psyker with an inner crisis over his purpose in exisitng.

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>>52442175
BAAAALD

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>>52441984
Mortarion hated the Emperor and loved his brother Horus. That was his sole reason to rebelling, regardless of Nikea this and witches that.
But to his bad luck, Horus' side used a shitton of unsanctioned sorcery and daemons, which he hated.
Realizing his mistake, he tried to find a solution. Ubeknownst to him, the path he believed to be the solution to the witch problem was nothing more than yet another mistake, one that would eventually cost him his own jaded soul.

>>52442052
dig through the ditches

>>52442131
Mortarion just wanted another sane Primarch on his side because all his other allies were madmen and degenerates.

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>>52442175
He was both a good general, a devious diplomat, a capable conqueror and a charismatic chap, which some his brothers were better at, but none had all those qualities together.
That's what made him First Among Equals didn't even last a decade on the job

>>52442154
Chogorian culture has shamans who know the warp is potentially dangerous, but that it can be treated with care. Hopefully we learn more about Baal soon, otherwise it's all about Sanguinius being a latent psyker.

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>>52440501
now with heraldry

>>52442131
Well, it's still a 50/50 shot. You have to remember that even if Khan had some public view, no one really understood him

>>52441150
>full berzerker
Stony-faced and not saying a single word?
Tanking the 'perfect hit' and calmly fucking Al's shit up?

It wasn't berserker. It was tired-of-your-stupid-seven-layered-shit. And it was glorious.

>>52437953
Trying to convince Dorn that sneaky tactics were the only real way to win. Alpha Legion gloating 101. He wanted to get Dorn in on the stupid agents-within-agents and conspiracy crap.

It was immensely satisfying to watch him get his shit kicked in literally half a page after saying "This is not a fight you can win YOUR way."

>>52442154
They enlisted the Khan to draft up a bunch of the rules for the Librarius because he wasn't an active Psyker(beyond baseline primarch nonsense) but he was from a culture that was huge on limiting their power and making sure they were very careful about using it.

It also lent them a lot of credibility to have a non-psyker draft up some of the paperwork.

>>52442423
Get a better camera, or put it down to photo it. It's shaky and blurry.

If a unit is killed off but returns on a 5+, and their Dedicated Transport still lives, do they come back with a new DT, on foot or not at all until the original DT dies as well?

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Best legion.

>>52436720
Its attached to backpack.

>>52442824
reaaad the rules

DTs and their transportees are separate units

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>>52442842
>Ultramarines stole their legion number
>have normal babes with pointy ears instead of crab whores with one breast
You will never be as perfect as Legio Ultra.

>>52442934
>Ultramarines IIIrd legion
>Emperor's Children XIIIth legion
>Salamanders VIIIth
>Night Lords XVIIIth
No wonder why GW thinks the Death Guard is the VIIth legion :^)

>>52435744
So is praetorian of dorn worth reading? seems like it would be a nice read even with all the spoilers. Also does it require having read any of the other previous books or can it stand on its own?

>>52436703
>>52438265
>>52436798

Its pretty simple what the intended effect was; Bobby G staying alive means he goes full autism about Imperium Secundus, which sucks the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Ultramarines and various other loyalists into his bullshit empire of wasted time.

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>>52443018
This allowed Horus to cripple the Emperor, which is the real " " "victory" " " the Chaos gods were looking for, since Emps living would have meant chaos dying.
They gave no fucks about Horus becoming the new Emperor, nor about Abaddon for that matter.

>>52442973
>Also does it require having read any of the other previous books or can it stand on its own?

You should be fine, it's one of the more standalone-type books in the series (unlike the White Scars or early Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus books)

>>52443053

Well no shit, they're Chaos Gods. They will rescind their patronage as soon as they get what they want, or grow bored of their new plaything otherwise.

The only one who gets unending and unquestioning support, even obedience to, is Archaon because he's a massive fucking wankfest mary sue of an entire setting painted up bigger than the gods he '''''''serves'''''''.

>>52443080
I just said it because WBs thought letting Guilliman live would make them win the war, instead of making them lose the war even after removing the Emperor from the field.
In fact, 10000 years of war has benefitted the Dark Gods much more than the "ensouled & neverborn symbiosis" Kuck-aid Lorgar ended up buying.
I don't really care about Archaon wank.

>>52443136

Its an important distinction because in 40k they don't care about anyone and regularly cuck their own devotees while in Fantasy they tend to be less fickle and more retarded, probably because they have already won - multiple times even..

>>52443177
In AoS the Chaos gods are getting longdicked by Sigmar and are actually losing their hold on the realms. It's actually pretty refreshing.

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Just about done with my two Caladius Grav Tanks. Next up are the twin Coronus Grav Carriers and I'm ready to die.

>>52437878
Can someone link me to these analyses?

>>52436557
I don't think you understand how IF-THEN propositions work.

>>52443274
Spiffy.

>>52443053
Nice headcanon.

The real fluff says that their aim was the destruction of the Webway. The fate of the Emperor and his Imperium was an afterthought. There is also the fact that it's heavily hinted that they intended for Horus to fail.

>nor about Abaddon for that matter.

They do. Dark Emperor Abaddon would be a great threat to them.

>>52443080
What is this bullshit? You need to be beaten with the Archaon model to death. In the Age of Chaos, the Chaos Gods turned on Archaon and warred against him. They send their champions and armies against him. He defeated them all and overcame all the Chaos Gods tests and challenges. This forced the Chaos Gods to knowledge him as the Master of Chaos and their Everchosen. The Chaos Gods see Archaon as their greatest champion that embodies Chaos in all its forms, and also view him as a monstrous inconvenience since they cannot bind him to their will.

There is also the fact, that you conveniently ignored, of him being their grandson. Their blood flows in his veins. Making their relationship with him quite different from any other Chaos champ on top of making him a divine being. A demigod of Chaos, only one step below from the Chaos God.

>>52443369
He thinks chaos can guarantee stuff. The only guarantee chaos gives is eternal damnation.
>>52443529
>The fate of the Emperor and his Imperium was an afterthought
Even if the Emperor lived, he'd be unable to rebuild the Webway project? The whole "I don't know" bit?
>Dark Emperor Abaddon would be a great threat to them.
Would Abaddon fulfill the "Traitors win but humanity dies with them and so does chaos" Cabal prophecy or something?
Because if Abby is a threat to them I don't know why they support him, unless supporting him prevents a more powerful lord filling the power void and rallying the traitors to an overwhelming victory.

>>52443529
Furthermore, remember when the Necron Pylons cut off Abaddon from Chaos Gods power. The text said, IIRC, that he was just as strong without them backing him up.

Unlike that failure Horus, Abaddon and Archaon don't need the Chaos Gods as crutch. They are great warriors and generals by their own right. Even when the Chaos Gods turned upon both of them, Abaddon and Archaon endured and emerged stronger than ever.

>>52443565
>Even if the Emperor lived, he'd be unable to rebuild the Webway project? The whole "I don't know" bit?

Read MoM (Chapter "Death of a Dream" and up). There is no rebuilding the Imperial Webway. It was lost forever. The Emperor says it himself that Chaos won and that there is no hope or freedom for mankind in the coming darkness.

>Would Abaddon fulfill the "Traitors win but humanity dies with them and so does chaos" Cabal prophecy or something?

No, that was a one chance opportunity that fell on its face.

>Because if Abby is a threat to them I don't know why they support him

Because he is the only one capable of delivering the galaxy to them. Abaddon and the Chaos Gods plan to backstab each other at the moment of victory.

>>52438366
>not that Dorn would've known what Chaos was
This is the crux of it. French had written the Lightning Tower where Malcador plays his mind games with Dorn. They did touch upon the subject of Chaos, but the real deal is "what are you really afraid of". What was Dorn's answer? To realise the enemy is right and that he might side with him. And that could not be allowed to happen.
So Dorn had built another wall (let the memes ensue) because of his loyalty to the Emperor. Do not talk, do not negotiate, do not contact the enemy other than with bolt and blade. That is why Dorn seems uninterested in talking with Alpharius and just bull rushes him.

So have in mind, French mentions the Lightning Tower in the afterword, the next time the Praetorian comes up.

>>52443565
>don't know why they support him

Because the gods need total war to fuel their existence, Abby is just another pawn used to keep their enemies down and to be discarded when the time is right and Abby thinks the same of Chaos.

Also dont forget that the gods have tried to enslave Abbadon countless times by offering him demonhood and he has denied them all.

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Guys I need an advice pls

My friend told me that my salamanders look like SoH. Is it true ? Just wanted to slightly change the type of green used but now i'm confused

Pic obviously related and sorry for potato quality

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>>52443616
>There is no rebuilding the Imperial Webway. It was lost forever. The Emperor says it himself that Chaos won and that there is no hope or freedom for mankind in the coming darkness.
When I made this, I was just memeing. I don't like this reality.

>>52443652
Your green looks great. Sons of Horus were a very different shade closer to post Heresy DA.

>>52443636
>Because the gods need total war to fuel their existence

That's headcanon. The ultimate goal of Chaos was highlighted in lore plenty of times, and it's the destruction of the galaxy and all life in it.

You think them having Abaddon destroy the only things that keep the galaxy from sinking into the Warp means they want eternal war?

>>52443652
Nah you did good. Both Salamanders and SoH can be done with olive green, while also the more saturated green like warpstone glow fits Sallies but SoH lean more to the teal side. It's just a matter of iconography if both are done in drab green.

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>>52443616
>There is no rebuilding the Imperial Webway. It was lost forever
Fuck douchebag Emperor and his plans. Bob made friends with Eldar and used Webway already, there is no need to build own if you can use existing one.

>>52443701
That would be like a virus that kills all life forms ever and dies off as it runs out of lifeforms to infect.
If everyone died, no one would get sick, or indulge in excesses, or claim skulls or plan stuff.
Eternal war is better than everyone dying.

>>52443748
Except that time and space will be destroyed alongside life. You cannot die out when there is no time.

>>52443721
The Emperor thought the Eldar were too dangerous to trust considering he knew their arrogance and pride led them to their then current standings. He didn't want to have them around with his rebuilt webway.

Only now are Eldar mostly cooperating because they'll fucking die too if humanity isn't their friend in the darkest of times. Like the gauntlet has been thrown down and the only options are to help one another or die horribly.

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>>52443780
>How can we die when time isn't real

>>52443845
>arrogance and pride

t. The "the whole galaxy should belong to humanity and every human world must do what I say, because reasons I guess" Emperor

>>52443865
The Emperor wasn't omnipotent but knew for humanity to reach its peak and hold onto it that it needed to be controlled properly. He wasn't wanting worship but the betterment of man and removing any form of cancer within the galaxy to do it, even the pieces of Imperials that would become or were cancerous.

It also didn't help that Eldar being a psychic race birthed one of the gods actively fighting against his works.

Would you really trust a guy who accidentally made a bomb and nearly blew up your apartment complex?

>>52443891
The point is that it's always struck me as particularly hypocritical that people crucify the Eldar for "arrogance and pride" when the Emperor and Imperium are very bit as destructively self-obsessed. Arguably, they're even more so - at the height of their power, the Eldar were never prideful enough to claim that the entire galaxy should belong to them, and that the other races should be enslaved or exterminated.

>>52443677
>>52443716

Thanks guys
I appreciate

>>52443951
Personal feeling here, but I think the Emperor didn't really feel like the galaxy belonged to humanity, but that their empire and spanning the was never going to be slowed because all that opposed humanity weren't willing to submit under one grand banner. There are instances where the Imperiums best tech is influenced by races sanctioned by the Imperium itself.

The Emperor saw the humanity could be just like the Eldar and even worse or better, and that they needed continual proper steering to achieve the best results.

>>52443620
>Do not talk, do not negotiate, do not contact the enemy other than with bolt and blade.
which is honestly pretty standard fighting man stuff. Takes the everyman primarch to inject a bit of common sense into the series, I guess.

>>52443676
>replying to he who must not be named, even in passing

>>52443951
And instead they were drugging and fucking each other into oblivion, eventually birthing a new chaos god.
You want us to focus on the Eldar at the height of their power? Look at Comorragh.

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>>52443721
>Female Eldar spotted always with leader of the Ultramarines, willing to use any and all resources to aid him.
Could this be the start of His glorious return?

>>52444016
Yvraine a poser, Guilliman confirmed secret Eldar mercenary.

>>52444016
The harlequins did that, m8.

aeyvrayyene and the ayyldar left long before the plot moved to the moon

>>52444014
Which is irrelevant, since the discussion is whether or not the Imperium also fits the descriptor of "arrogance and pride".

>>52444045
All I know about the current plotline is a few bits and pieces I've seen here and there, thanks.

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>>52444045
She also said they will meet again.

>>52444089
>I could threaten you for information
>but turning on the eldar right now will probably fuck something up down the line so I won't
yeah, real pillow talk there

>>52444049
Before the Warmaster's betrayal the Imperium wasn't self destructive, the arrogance was mostly concentrated in Fulgrim and the pride in Alpharius.
Tell me, what's wrong with trying to unify mankind after the ravages of Old Night, pushing back the alien horrors that opressed humans while eliminating those that still pose a threat?
The Emperor's Imperium wasn't arrogant to say "we're done, we're taking a vacation now", that was the Eldar's.
The Emperor's Imperium wasn't prideful to say "we can do no wrong" and had science under heavy control, unlike the Eldar's private dungeon-realities that became Comorragh, whose decadent inhabitants need suffering to prevent their very souls from evaporating away.

The Emperor wanted the galaxy to dance to His tune, but because mankind wouldn't suffer to dance to the xenos' tune any more.

>>52444122
When it comes down to it, one is a Demigod and literal creation to lead humanity.

The other is a source of leadership amongst and ancient race and a disciple of a literal god.

This is them being kind and stem at once

>>52444122
More like
>Boyfriend said shit and girfriend's dad gets angry

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>Power mauls Str+2 No save modifier
>Power axes Str+3 No save modifier
I don't understand. Either way, would you like the new rules applied to 30k? Perhaps it'd FORCE FW to polish the current rules and trim the powercreep
>Termie saves on 3+ 2D6

>>52444564
>Termies get the old 3+ save on 2d6 *and* a 5++
Does that mean you'll get to take both regular saves as well as invulnerable ones? Because in 2nd ed the worst modifier was -6, which was rare as fuck.

>>52444564
Old school as fuck. Rapid Fire dice when?
Is that from Shadow War Armageddon?

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>>52444564
What the fuck is this piece of shit?

Anyone have screencap for ADB admitting him being abused by his dad when he was young?

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>>52444637
>>52444612
From Shadow War I think

>>52443080
>The only one who gets unending and unquestioning support, even obedience to, is Archaon because he's a massive fucking wankfest mary sue of an entire setting painted up bigger than the gods he '''''''serves'''''''.
>>52443529
>In the Age of Chaos, the Chaos Gods turned on Archaon and warred against him. They send their champions and armies against him. He defeated them all and overcame all the Chaos Gods tests and challenges. This forced the Chaos Gods to knowledge him as the Master of Chaos and their Everchosen. The Chaos Gods see Archaon as their greatest champion that embodies Chaos in all its forms, and also view him as a monstrous inconvenience since they cannot bind him to their will.

Ah, the old "arguing with someone while agreeing with them" thing. What fun.

>>52444564
What is an ammo roll? What does it do?

>>52444728
I, too, am a soul in search for answers.

>>52440171
Use Amon for a second turn outflank while yelling at your opponent to prepare their angus.

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>>52444728
>>52444739
It does this.

>>52444708
Nope, you are a moron. It's as simple as that. The Chaos Gods have a tense relationship with Archaon and have warred with him more than once. Even now in the Age of Sigmar, the Chaos Gods seek to undermine him to further their own personal agendas.

They certainly don't provide him with "unending and unquestioning support". Archaon has/had to fight for it and beware of their treachery.

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Might as well post the last shadow wars page as well. Not that this is necessarily what 8th edition 40k will look like - I can't believe they'd be silly enough to go back to 1-on-1 close combat in a game where you can have 30 hormagaunts fighting 30 ork boyz - but it's interesting anyway.

>>52444779
Looks fun to me. Maybe they are shit in the end but I am willing to try them

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>MkIII power armour
>2D6 3+ save :^)

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>>52444820
>mfw resolving saves for 20-man squad hit by 12 blasts from quad-mortars

>>52444820
could just give a 6+ invulnerable or and extra wound but prevent sweeping advances.

>>52443274
What did you do for the steel and silver? They look great.

>>52445271
All metals started with Leadbelcher, then were hit with Nuln Oil. Once dry, I did a few soft drybriush layers of Stormhost Silver, then hit the highest of edges with a dusting few strokes of Runefang Steel.

The parts with the purple hue had this same treatment, but received Druchii Violet in two washes after the Stormhost Silver.

>>52444779
>I can't believe they'd be silly enough to go back to 1-on-1 close combat in a game where you can have 30 hormagaunts

Well they did exactly that with fantasy, and the combat of fantasy was even more group-based than 40k now. I desperately wish 8th edition won't be shit but the hints so far don't exactly fill me with any hope.

>In b4 "Shadow Wars was such a huge succes we ported its rules straight to 40k ! Have fun resolving combat with 50man IG squads !"

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>>52445438
>Shadow Wars was such a huge succes we ported its rules straight to 40k !
nothing to port

it's just plain old 40k

I'm thinking about putting Praevian in my list, mostly for melee AP2 my army lacks. Would it be a bad idea?

And also, if I use him, should I go for Vorax or Castellax w/ Darkfire or Multi-melta?

>>52445438
My hope is they (mostly) stick with the rules we currently have for normal close combat, but use these >>52444779 rules for challenges.

Alright, aside from looking baller as fuck, what's the argument for taking a Deredeo?

>>52445483
incredible anti-armour capability for anything under a land raider
good AA as well
if you take the plasma, can also double as a heavy infantry cooker

Anyone still have that picture of the Greyfax model converted into a SoS?

>>52444779
> They actually went back to the fucking retarded necromunda way to resolve attacks
GW writers are fucking hacks. It's like they are too stupid, or too lazy, to just make changes.

>>52445570
>throwback game using legacy rules
>"wow these guys are fucking hacks"
the old rules are like, the entire point

who are the "Unifiers" among the Cult Mechanicum?

>>52445483
It costs the same as a Kheres armed Contemptor Mortis and is better in every way. Plus it can help a static gunline with it's force field.

>>52445698
Sounds like the perfect thing to add to my Iron Warriors then.

>>52445608
Why cannot they take the old product, go "Hmmm this aspect was fucking dumb and overly complicated, why not just simplify it to modern assault rules?" And make a sensible change?
All the old Mordheim, Necromunda, etc skirmish games WERE NOT about the rules. It was about the progression of YOUR DUDES. Making that story. They could have ported over the advancement tables and territory income tables (renaming them something GRIMDARK or what have you), added in a rule "every model is its own squad", and MAYBE few few of the morale rules, and it would have been good to go.

>>52445698
thats not strictly true
the kheres is much more effective against infantry because of 12 shots

>>52445727
it's almost like some people think those rules aren't dumb or overly complicated

>>52445731
This.
Also a kheres can crack a flare shield spartan.. doritio dread can only do that with its SUPER Las cannon... and that's only 2 shots. Even with ordnance the shield makes it a gamble. And then it's much less versatile against infantry.
Bottom line- Kheres is an all in one package, doritio is not.

>>52441885
You can't Ally with yourself, so if I'm taking Talons as Allies, they all have to use the same Ally detachment, which has only one HQ, and to take any Sister units, you have to take a Sister HQ. That means no Shield Captain, and I, for one, would rather take him than a 75+ points tax on a fun Sister unit with forge dildo.

>>52445755
>Also a kheres can crack a flare shield spartan..

In 9 turns. If it's a dual kheres mortis.

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Ok anon, I am looking for a second opinion before I finish this model. Specifically, does this trigger people's armour autism? I was hoping for a Mark V look, but I don't know if it translates well.

It's based off this model
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Space-Marine-Captain-Master-of-Relics

>>52445944
looks pretty mark 5 to me, minus the head and plasma section of the combi-weapon

So if I pick that red king Rite of war. Do both troop choices need to be magic terminators? because if that's true I won't be doing that I need that sweet sweet MkIII in my army and I won't have the points.

>>52445944
looks hideous.

>>52446006
The model or the paint job?

>>52446038
Both to be honest, I know resin has poor quality but the model is too busy and the satellite looks absurd. In this day and age we can transmit vast distances with just an antenna, and the winged skull on top is ridiculous. The combi-weapon is pretty gross as well. Your spotlights aren't smooth and have no glass effect.

>>52446099
>i dont like 40k the post

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>>52445944
The model is very much a MkV, though not sure about the helmet. I used pic related from the Assault Marine kit for my MkVs (mainly tank crews).

>>52446099
this is the least setting aware post i've ever seen

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>>52445944
the helmet's just plain mk7, which bothers me a bit

at least go for one of the archaic-looking chaos helmets

>>52446245
is that just out of the csm box?
because that head is beautifully angry looking

>>52445456
Generally Vorax are power armour blenders and can handle anything with one wound reasonably well. Castellax are better built for deathstars, multiwound models and vehicles.

>>52446266
CSM vehicle crew sprue. The CSM box comes with a similar helmet without the monocle as well as similar angry skull helmets with an arrow on top and a top knot (which is easy enough to cut off). I used some of those helmets specifically for the angry skull look.

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>>52446266
that one's from the csm vehicle sprue

there's a similar one in the csm box, though

>>52442934
Fulgrim did fuck up Guilliman good thought.

>>52443652
Looks sweet, looks more salamander than soh, ya did good son.

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>>52445944
>that helmet

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>>52440660
Here's a comparison.

Ahriman is following the Burninf of Prospero guide, while the TS on the left is: liberator gold basecoat, red + brown wash (50/50) in the grooves and areas that don't get sun), then Tamiya clear red.

Red glaze + gloss medium would do the same job as Tamiya clear red.

>>52446724
Oh and if you need a comparison of gold + clear red, versus white primer + clear red, then look at the armour compared to the base of the model.

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>>52446724

>>52446777
lol

>>52446724
Why is Ahriman gold?