Fixing Tyranids

didn't someone make a fandex on 1d4 or something? how was that?

Bring back 3e (4e?) biomorphs list (+1ws/bs/s/t/w/i/a upgrades any model can buy)
expand the non-stat biomorph list, and let more (all) models take them. who cares if its a guant, let it have an acid maw if it wants to!
condense the unit entries to 7 or so classes of beast, that, combined with the upgrades from above, can make the various unit entries we have now.
(for example, tyrant class of beast, has the classic hive tyrant or canifex stat line, access to all the various guns/weapons/wings/biomorphs, can gain synapse+psyker to become an HQ, etc.)

>>52416155
Ridiculously overpowered, unfortunately.

there was a tyranid list that hit top 16 at adepticon this weekend they're literally fine, stop bitching

>>52415823
My take: break Tyranids to generic slots that can be altered.

Lesser Bio-Monstrosity (4W) (Carnifex and Tyrant) Large Size with two Large-Bio-Weapons

Bio-Monstrosity (5W) (Haurspex, Exocrine, Toxicrene, Maleceptor, Crone, Harpy)

Lesser Bio-Titan (6W) (T-fex, Tervigon, Mawloc, Trygon) Large Size with two Large Bio-Weapons and one Huge Bio-Weapon.


Guard (tyrant/hive guard) Medium Size with one Large Bio-Weapon and one Medium Bio-Weapon

Warrior (warrior/shrike/ravener) Medium Size with two Medium Bio-Weapons and optional Medium Bio-Weapon slot in chest

thrope class (venom/zoanthrope - the esoteric classes) ???

Gaunt (horma/terma gant, and gargoyle), Small Size with one Small Bio-Weapon slot.

Vore (Biovore, Pyrovore), Medium Size with one Large Bio-Weapon slot.

>>52416155
It's the one I use, and I like it quite a lot. Being able to fiddle with statlines helps in a lot of ways, as do the sort of Hive Fleet tactics and new weapon options.

I've got a very Nidzilla style list. A carnifex that is effectively toughness 8 with 2+ armor is terrifying and fun, even if it is 300 points with everything. Warriors being 22 also helps a lot, and with upgrades become monstrously survivable.

I would say >>52416175 has a good point though. The rules are quite powerful, especially if you were actively trying to find the best options. I've had them be more than a match for my friend's Tau, even with his Riptide.

>>52416226
I would say to combine the Guard and Vore classes into one, as well as possibly combining the 5W and 6W categories more fluidly. Overall, I think it should be based on the size and form of the model.

Still, giving them that sort of blank slate from which to build any other unit on top of would be quite nice.

>>52416287
I think that's a dumb idea.

A tyrant/hive guard is basically just a warrior with improved save and toughness.

>>52416510
Except for the completely different posture and lack of synapse. It fits better with the vores as a supplementary combat organism.

>>52416545
Or keep them separate?

Vores seem to just be living Heavy Weapons platforms while Guards are larger.

Also add that each unit may purchase their Behaviour, either Lurk, Feed, Hunt, Independent (no IB) or Synapse

>>52416652
Guards are only somewhat larger, and they also function as living heavy weapon platforms. They lack eyes and have pretty powerful cannons on all of them.

Hive Guard stand more upright than a Pyrovore or a Biovore, but I'd say they both fit into that sort of mid-sized beast role.

I would also say that the type of behavior could be determined by weapon options. Being independent is something mainly for genestealers, and wouldn't fit well on most of the other creatures. Buying Synapse is fine, though I think it would need to preclude some other upgrades so that people don't just buy synapse on literally everything.

>>52416545
>Let's merge together two completely different and entirely unrelated things with massive differences in stats!

>>52415961
remove them from the game because they obviously don't belong in 40k

File: Top-16.jpg (48KB, 500x828px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 500x828px

>>52416214
Oh, you mean this list?
>Flyrants
>Mucolids
>Eldar make up the majority of the list

Yep, checks out.

>>52416240
It kind of hit me when my Deathleaper killed a Captain and his unit on the turn it arrived.

>>52416896
Said Captain was in Artificer armor + a bunch of other upgrades.

File: guardvore.png (70KB, 1213x283px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 1213x283px

>>52416792
Aside from the boost in toughness, not really.

>>52416896
>>52416962
Yeah. On the one hand, against some of the more ridiculous armies in the game, the level of survivability and killing potential is kind of necessary.

On the other hand, I'm sure I would have to seriously tone things down against any weaker armies or more casual lists.

>>52416778
Guard are like a Warrior torso on a Vore base. Not to even mention the stat difference. It's simplier to no try to shove them together.

>Buying Synapse is fine, though I think it would need to preclude some other upgrades so that people don't just buy synapse on literally everything
If say Synapse (which would have 3 prices, for Small/Medium/Large Tyranids) was 3-4ppm for Small would you really want to pay 7-8 ppm for Synaptic Gaunts?

Make it such that a unit would have to buy their Behaviour as a whole.

And as for Independence, Lictors should also have Independence, which they don't. But I'm more in the mindset of more options for Tyranids, what if someone wanted a Hive Fleet that adapted a lot of creatures to be independent because of synaptic creatures kept getting killed, etc.

Pick the Creature
Pick its behavior
Pick its Bio-Weapons (slots and sizes defined by the Creature)
Pick its biomorphs

Splice in Strains (Wings (become FA), Ravener (become FA), Lictor (become Elite), Carnifex (?), Tyrant(?) (must be Synapse, must be Psyker, must be Lesser Bio-Monstrosity or larger, becomes HQ)
Etc.

>>52417141
Well, another thing to consider with Synapse is FoC swapping. It's basically the difference between a Trygon and a prime. At the very least, I would say no Synaptic gaunts.

I'd also say that you should at least have to have a melee biomorph of some kind on something with feed, and a ranged one on something with hunt, just to keep nonsense at bay.

I think the answer to this though is just making it so Instinctive behavior creatures within synapse get bonuses. Thus, you could make a Synapse carnifex, but if you give it Hunt instead with a pair of Biocannons, it'll be better at that role while in Syanpse range.

Biomancy powers

Y/N

>>52417344
I would say Biomancy, Telepathy, and Telekinesis. There's really no reason for Tyranids not to have core rulebook powers. Also, give them a bonus to harnessing powers from the Tyranid table to represent their mastery on them.

>>52417281
One of the things I was thinking was each behavior gave stats

>Lurk (-1Ld, or nothing), default and free.
>Hunt (+1BS)
>Feed (+1A +1I)
>Independent (+1BS, A, & I, +1-2 Ld)
>Synapse (+1 BS, A, & I, Ld10)

Obviously Synapse costs the most, Independence costs the second most, while Feed and Hunt cost about the same.

>>52417396

>Also, give them a bonus to harnessing powers from the Tyranid table to represent their mastery on them.

Hive mind focus? Like chaos focus, but for hive mind? Or you can share out the hive mind powers with any friendly pysker within a certain range (a la librarius conclave)?

>>52417439
Hmm...I feel it would be better to have each behavior give a bonus while in Synapse, like Lurk giving Stealth or Hunt giving a ballistic skill bonus.

I feel as though being independent or having synapse shouldn't do anything other than boost leadership though. If someone wants a model to be a dedicated close combat beast, they should be giving it feed and buying the dedicated close combat biomorphs and statline upgrades.

>>52417465
I feel like certain creatures should be set up to cast certain powers, but should be doing so reliably. It would be nice if they could harness on 3s and heavily diminish the risk of perils while still being reliable.

It'd actually be kind of neat if Tyranids simply had a list of psychic powers instead and could buy them for psykers. If we're going for the customizing angle, then why not let a Zoanthrope be upgraded to reliably cast Catalyst as a support organism, rather than having to be a dedicated psychic gun?

>>52417614

agreed: we have a biomorph upgrade table, why not a neuromorph table?

>>52417643
Yeah. I like the idea of Tyranid psychic powers being more akin to guns or special abilities that can be purchased, rather than being random. After all, if they can reliably breed Zoanthropes with warp blast, it should be easy to have other organisms focus similarly.

>>52417720

Ok, so for each psyker level, instead of rolling on a power table, you may instead pay X points and choose one of the tyranid powers on the table instead?

>>52417761
Yeah, I think that would work.

Personally, I would be excited at the thought of giving a Maleceptor Warp Blast and something to boost its durability in order to make it a walking psychic tank.

>>52417549
It was mostly to make sense of existing Tyranid stats

>Hormagaunts getting +1 A and I from a Termagaunt

Or how Raveners and Warriors have similar stats / Trygon vs. Trygon Prime

>Also Synapse should be the end all. As Tyrants are one of the best melee monsters (statwise), but will always be a Synapse.

>>52415961
Shameless bump

All the infinitesimal differences leave behind the simplicity, which is pretty important--esp. in a fandex, & esp. in a book that brings back stat-boost upgrades.

Crud added complexity in order to nerf Nids via IB. Just take it back to "unit runs toward nearest Synapse unit if it fails LD outside of it." It's how they were designed & it makes sense; it's simple & easy to remember; & it translates easily on the TT.

>>52416968
>more WS
>more S
>more T
>less wounds
>more LD
>better save
>the other two profiles are fucking identical
>i-it's the same guys!

TBQH famalam you could remove Instinctive Behavior & drop all Nid units like 20% in point price & even then their rules are so bad it wouldn't even out. I kind of hope someone shows Crud's math comment to his alma mater & he gets his physics doctorate revoked.

>>52415961
bumping again

>>52415961
Warriors need to be Toughness 5.

>>52416214
Did they by any chance consist of almost entirely Flyrants and Spores?

>>52416968
5 of those stats are different though

>>52415961
If we're stuck with our dedicated ranged models, can they at least shoot worth a damn? Most of our tankbuster weapons aren't that much fun when the units firing them miss half the time.

>>52426386
Depending honestly.

Instant Death by double Strength is lame and affects multiple armies. Remove that or make it so double strength deals Multiple Wounds (d3) and that would go along way to fixing warriors.

>>52429598
Change ranged models to a blast template, with some sort of scaling rule with a diminishing return about the more nids of the same type firing into it. Create areas on the battlefield that become progressively more deadly to be in, but take time to "warm up"

Gib eternal warrior back

File: 1453092339482.jpg (98KB, 286x323px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 286x323px

>>52417113
>On the other hand, I'm sure I would have to seriously tone things down against any weaker armies or more casual lists.

Pussy. Just let the squats or offbrand imperial guard flavor field twice as many points

File: consider the following.jpg (3KB, 125x125px) Image search: [Google]

3KB, 125x125px

>>52430331
>Instant Death by double Strength is lame and affects multiple armies. Remove that or make it so double strength deals Multiple Wounds

>nerfing instagib in WH40k

Fodder being reduced to piles of chunky meat a la classic Doom on the turn they deploy is part of the glory, anon

>>52426386
This, give warriors T5, give all synapse providing creatures a 6+ fnp, its enough for a tiny boost without being OP

>>52415961
bump

>>52415961
>Also looking for the guy who was writing up a homebrew codex.
Hey, that would be me.

Sorry for disappearing guys. Here's the situation:

I was about ready to take the mostly completed rough draft and format it in the final PDF for playtesting, and then GW announced the 8th edition changes, which appear to be rendering everything completely obsolete. It was pretty demoralizing as that would mean a total redesigning of the book to make it compatible with the newest edition in only two months, which is about the amount of time I would want to be playtesting it before releasing a finished one anyways.

Basically I'm sitting on a usable set of 7th edition rules but the future of 7e is very up in the air right now, so I'm playing the waiting game. There are four possible results:

1. If 8th fractures the fanbase and we have a significant portion of people who want to use a new fan ruleset, like a 40k version of 9th Age, I may get involved in the project to create that (I made a brief attempt to do so a few months back but shelved it for similar reasons).

2. If a good chunk of people move over to Horus Heresy rules, I'll put the finishing touches on the fandex to make it compatible with that - I could even fluff the entire thing as a Codex for Hive Fleet Ouroborous which was sent back in time via Warp Storms (see 4th ed Codex Tyranids, this actually happened in the lore).

3. If 8th edition is actually a good core ruleset but the Tyranid rules still suck, I'll rewrite the book for that, which will take some time.

4. If 8th ed is good and Tyranids are actually good I might not need to do anything. Maybe I'll still do option 2 just for fun.

In any case I'll make the decision in a couple months time when we start seeing more leaks for 8th.