/osrg/

>>52414491
>What is the /correct/ way to do Saves?

Saving throws were originally just a stroke of blind luck that saved you when you should've died. To simulate this, just roll a simple d20 and try to get over a number specified by the DM depending on the situation.

No death or breath weapons, no fortitude or will, just a simple saving throw.

>>52414663
Maybe he meant that one would be bad because of a dump stat?

And I think the 3.0 did of *how* to avoid is more instinctive. Maybe a flat bonus where you add the relevant modifier and class modifiers, instead of a good/bad progression?

>>52414491
>What is the /correct/ way to do Saves?
Single category, possibly getting a bonus vs. a particular category depending on class, and modified by your attributes. You get a bonus vs. deadly effects.

Thus, a 3rd level wizard might have a saving throw score of 14. He's saving vs. poison, so he gets the better of 2 rolls (bonus vs. deadly effect) and applies his constitution modifier, if any.

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I could use some advice /osr.

Situation # 1
One of the stones in the corner making up the floor of the room is loose, but there's a barely visible seam that could be spotted. Underneath the stone is a hole dug out of the firm dirt, where someone hid a small sack of coins.

Should finding it be simply a matter of chance/roll? Some sort of declaration? Should they specify they are searching the ground? How much time is necessary?

Situation #2
There is a secret door in a tomb, where the sarcophagi of a knight is hidden. The door can magically be opened by saying the right phrase (written elsewhere in the tomb in a language that one of the player characters is literate in).

Besides that there are two large statues. One of them has a seam in the arm, and the arm can be lifted up and click into place. The base of the statue can also rotate. Words elsewhere in the tomb help indicate as such. If the arm is lifted and the statue rotated, the door will magically open.

Lastly, the secret door can be noticed by knocking on all the walls to notice one is hollow, or by examining the room to notice that there is a slight breeze from a crack along the ground where the door is located. One of the characters has a pickaxe and can just break through the thin stone wall through brute force.

I thought this was enough methods to allow access to this place without it being too frustrating or too easy. Most of my players are new, and one of them found this incredibly frustrating. They eventually got through it, but I could use some advice on how to properly present challenges and puzzles that can engage my players without making things too easy or impossible.

Situation #3
Tied back to #1, All of the goblins in a particular tomb carry a little goblin bag full of detritus and a few copper coins. The goblin leader has some items on him, but no coins. Is this enough of a clue to indicate they're hidden somewhere in the room? Once again, my players didn't notice.

>>52414554
I like the simplicity of this.

>Situation # 1
If they say they look in the corner, mention the seam.
If they say they search in the corner, their 10' pole dislodged it, water pooled at the seam, etc. etc.
No need for a roll, they find it (or get a clue) immediately.
>Situation # 2
This sounds /very/ generous on your part, two concern though:
• were their clues as to /where/ the door was?
• did they /have/ to find the room to progress?
>Situation # 3
That doesn't indicate it at all, but you don't need to indicate it so...

>>52414966
Generalities then specifics.

Have you talked to your group about giving descriptive explanations of what they're doing? Have you brought up searching as a concept, but one that requires elaboration? Are you giving 1-2 sentence rundowns of rooms that have enough evocative meat for the players to grab onto? Sometimes making this explicit as an expectation and method helps new people. What were they frustrated about?

#1/3 I'd describe the room and do an X in 6 depending on who's looking, how they look, if they know about architecture, dungeons, racial abilities, etc. Was it obvious that the goblins should have more loot on them then they did? That probably requires some elaboration because sometimes you just don't roll treasure if you're random generating monsters. Something like a rumour about goblins looting a caravan, or a less hostile dungeon inhabitant telling them about it for a bit of the loot, stuff like that.

#2 Was the tomb of that Knight or was it just some random side bit? If they haven't found the tomb of the knight the tomb is named after/rumoured about/etc. then they should probably know to keep looking for hidden stuff. But if they're new you might need to explain that to them. Even things that seem basic like 'if there's a breeze in a dungeon, its probably coming from something and is a good way to find things you can't see directly'. Sounds like that was a good range of ways to find it though. I'm a softie and would have added a tapestry of the statues depicting them doing something that the statues can be moved into position of just to provide extra hints. Maybe the party investigating the town or nearby lorekeepers for legends about the place to let them know about secret vaults.

All that being said, sometimes people just don't notice stuff. If they're stuck, have them review the evidence at hand. Let them know you're not saying things just for colour, its for them to mess with, check out, etc.

>>52415343
>were their clues as to /where/ the door was?
Not particularly besides there being the statues, and the fact that there was some sense in how the layout of the tomb was structured, and due to how we play, I drew them a map as we played.

>did they /have/ to find the room to progress?
Definitely not. They were in there to rescue a prisoner held by the goblins and they did that fine.

There being one ransacked and desecrated sarcophagi room, and there also being a second hidden and untouched sarcophagi room was just to create a more interesting place, and a place to find more loot, and a roleplaying opportunity to decide whether they should tombraid the remains of a human knight.

>but you don't need to indicate it so...
I place lots of things which can reward players who are perceptive and pay attention, but they're hardly necessary or critical or anything of the sort.

>>52415349
I've talked to them about how I want them to do searching, I also want them to be engaged in interacting with the environment instead of just rolling dice.

I describe rooms in significant detail, (a good 4 sentences typically, including as many senses as possible), and answer any questions they have. I personally hate having misconceptions about a place as a player, and I try to avoid that as much as possible as a GM to ensure nobody loses suspension of disbelief.

>What were they frustrated about?
The statue. They never tried to rotate it until I fed them some more hints.

>who's looking, how they look
I gave the dwarf extra info about the stonework, and the thief extra info about what to expect in terms of traps and secret doors.

Nothing about the tomb was random rolled except some of the treasure items.

They never asked around the village about the local tomb, just about the local forest. They ran off almost immediately to track down the goblins and the girl.

Thanks for all the advice both of you. I'm still new to all this myself, but I'm trying to improve.

I haven't played in perhaps 6 months and am prepping for a game with 2 players on saturday. I feel way in over my head setting up a small town, wilderness and dungeon even though its totally doable prep.

Any words of encouragements? Or just a favorite random table?

What's the best way to run play-by-post in this day and age?

>>52414554
I kinda like the split between magic and non-magic throws. Just a touch more granularity.

>>52415692
>There being one ransacked and desecrated sarcophagi room, and there also being a second hidden and untouched sarcophagi room
To crimp off >>52415349,
>If they haven't found the tomb of the knight the tomb is named after/rumoured about/etc. then they should probably know to keep looking for hidden stuff.

the desecrated sarcophagi where clearly labeled as "not the Knight," right?

>>52415721
Through forums. Are you looking for anything specific?

>>52415868
Hmm, actually in retrospect I'm not sure it was clear. But the premise was very much the tomb of a knight, and a separate one for his squires and retinue.

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Let's try to change the names of the B/X saves so that people stop getting confused.

Here are my suggestions:
vs Death Ray or Poison: vs Swift Defeat
vs Magic Wands: vs Weakened Magic
vs Paralysis or Turn To Stone: vs Wyrd Effect
vs Dragon Breath: vs Surefire Hit
vs Rods, Staves or Spells: vs Magic

From what I've read, OSR seems to be balanced around a larger group of players, anywhere from 6-8.

But fuck, it's a nightmare to get all my friends organized for this, would it still be as enjoyable with a group of 4 or so people who take hirelings?

>>52415692
It sounds like you did fine. If they don't find all the stuff that's okay. I'd even keep the secret room for later, have local bandits set up in the tomb a few months after the players clear it out. Takes a bit for people to get into how to play.

I realized none of my players thought about rotating things unless they were round. Seriously. Round card table in the thieves hideout? The figured that out in a short amount of time. Turning a statue on a square block, they didn't even think of it. To be fair, thieves are sneaky so they might have been more suspicious there, but it was funny.

Side note, we have a good time with the players drawing a map as they go. It might not be 100% accurate but its neat to look at and compare to yours later. Gets them thinking about their environment more as it requires transcription to a different medium.

>>52415695
Don't over prep. An index card with a few interesting features and a few ideas for npcs is fine for a small town. Put a d6 random encounter table for the forest and that should do it. I found the tables/appendixes in the back of the dmg actually pretty helpful. There's a lot of neat shit there.

>>52415695
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just make sure that whatever little you prep really is stuff you think is cool and is stuff that your players can react too. They'll give you ideas as soon as they start to speculate about whatever weird stuff you present them really means, so you'll do fine.

>>52416117
You could play it so people have hirelings or 2 characters each

>>52416117
Lots of people play with less. Remember the group can hire mooks, mercs, hirelings, goons, etc. and/or have players control more than one character more like a wargame.

>>52414491

>What is the correct way to do saves?

Have a single saving throw number that levels slowly. Each glass gets a bonus to specific instances of when you'd use a saving throw.

For example;
>Fighters get bonus to in combat saving throws (such as vs dragon breath or when tripped by an orc)
>Thieves get bonus to hazards (traps, exploding toadstool field, pools of acid laying around in the dungeon, falling, etc)
>Wizards get bonus to magic and spells, such as illusions and sleep
>Clerics get bonuses at save vs death and other soul-related magic.

>>52416192
That's just like how B/X does it, except that there are five numbers instead of one so that there doesn't have to be a bunch of calculating going on in the middle of the game.

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>DM makes you roll up an AD&D 2e PC
>tells you to hold off on the name and bio
>makes you make 3 Int checks and 3 Wis checks
>pass 2 and 1 respectively
>DM hands you 3 index cards
>2 have "cognitive memory" and 1 has "emotion memory"
>"city; church visible; beggars yelling"
>"road; leads to home; passes near grain"
>"fear; knife slashing air; smile"
>hands you pic related and another character sheet

Would you be pissed off or intrigued?

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>>52416117
>a larger group of players, anywhere from 6-8.
Today, I will remind them.

>>52416136
>It sounds like you did fine.
Thanks, I was worried because my last serious GM experience was a decade ago, this was a brand new game to all of us, and 2 more people showed up than I had originally planned.

I had also overprepared and was rusty in improvising on the fly but my players didn't mind too much about it being a simple western style adventure, rescue the girl sort of thing to get the campaign started.

>Takes a bit for people to get into how to play.

Yeah, I think we got over the worst part of the learning curve, and it will be a lot more smooth sailing from here on. Also helps that there's one less player now.

>I realized none of my players thought about rotating things

Yeah, I like puzzle elements or thought experiments so I'm definitely going to keep trying to put them in there, and after discussing it with the players, they like the idea too, but perhaps need a bit more leeway about how specific the actions need to be taken. It's always tricky because I have no playtesting, I just have to throw a lot of options and clues and hope one of them sticks.

>good time with the players drawing a map as they go

Yeah, I agree. For this particular scenario the tomb was really only just three rooms, (plus the hidden fourth one behind the secret door), so there was no real need to map it out except for them to understand the areas they were fighting the goblins in. They also liked how I had the goblins use a small cauldron of heated up grease/pigfat knocked over onto the ground as a sort of impromptu trap/environmental hazard right as they ran to engage them.

>>52416542
>up to 50 players
wtf

>>52416458
I'd be intrigued but I wouldn't play it as long as that "15% chance to start randomly killing" rule isn't removed.

>>52416594

Well, it recommends having closer to 20 players per referee. Between simpler gameplay and having a caller, I suppose it was manageable.
Back in the day they would have practically the whole gaming community in town come over to play.

>>52416542
>>52416594
They mean up to 50 players for an entire campaign, not 50 players playing at the same time. There would be several groups that would do their own thing in the campaign world.

>>52416594
Don't fall for the ruse.

Realistically, what this meant was that you all went to someone's house. And there were for example actually 3 GM's. The best GM ran the game for the highest level players (5-8 players) in one room, the second best for the mid level guys in another room, and the third guy ran for the low level guys in a third room.

All of these campaigns were technically interconnected in one overarching gameworld, it was only 'dungeons' which were semi personal and unique to a GM.

>>52416098
Is that Cleric asking the Thief for a tithe of what he steals?

>>52416804

It's only professional courtesy.

>>52416594
Each one needs their own 3-ring binder.

>>52416192
I like it, but as >>52416303 said, was (clumsy) done.

Maybe combat/environment/magic?

>>52416696
>5-8 players

Are you sure? 'Cause I've read that they often had 10, 15, or more players at a table in those days.

>>52416303

>Oh yeah that's just how B/X does it
>Except not at all

>>52417092

That's what I described though.

I gave Clerics a more mystical/magic one to make them feel a little unique, but I don't even use them in my games so its irrelevant. My games literally go combat/environment/magic so that's fine.

>>52417108
Maybe in a game store or a convention designed for it.

And while I'm sure there are and were exceptions and somebody will bring them up, in most peoples homes, you just can't sit 15 people comfortably in a single room. So people would just play wherever there was space. What this often meant was multiple games running simultaneously.

It also meant that groups weren't necessarily static like we imagine them. People showed up when they could, and played all day together. But next weekend it might be a slightly different group. There's be a lot more mixing, and a degree of recruitment.

Like, rumors would be heard of some giants to fight in such and such place, or some group was defeated in this area by demons, and if you were high enough level some other player would ask you to join him on his adventure.

>>52417156
>Except not at all
How does it do it then?

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Any of your Magic-Users ever try to rig a competition? How'd it go?

>>52416594
>>52417108

If you're really curious, and have the patience to listen to this.

Here's a proper old school DM having a conversation with another DM who enjoys that sort of thing about how the game used to be once upon a time, or at least that how it was in that particular corner of the country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzEVAMIvJG8

>>52417343
Holy shit that is some nice production quality, that's nice to see from people in this hobby.

>>52417516
I don't agree with all of Matthew Colville's advice, but he puts out loads of nice content.

>>52417564
>I don't agree with all of Matthew Colville's advice,
For me, especially the part where he recommends you just start from scratch without using any premade settings or adventures.

>but he puts out loads of nice content.
I've watched most of his videos, and it actually inspired me to start running a game again. I am >>52414966

>>52417897
>I am >>52414966
Name field, broski.

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>>52414491
Panda People Drunk Monk Racial Class when?

>>52418074
When you post content.

>>52417897
Starting from scratch and making a campaign setting is easy, when you've done it a dozen times over twenty or thirty years. I would never recommend it to a new gamemaster. There's a lot of garbage modules and things to avoid, but it's still way better than trying to do everything from scratch.

>>52416098
>vs Death Ray or Poison: To avoid Instadeath
>vs Magic Wands: To Avoid Artifact Magic
>vs Paralysis or Turn To Stone: To Move at all
>vs Dragon Breath: To Run
>vs Rods, Staves or Spells: To Avoid Spells

>>52418074
A Wakfu/Dofus-esque world is still probably the best way to do race-as-class to me.
>Everyone starts human
>Depending on what god's tenets you ascribe to, your physical appearance changes
>This also affects your physiology and special abilities
I'd play an OSR game with classes similar to the World of Twelve's.

>>52418216
>vs Dragon Breath: To Run
Can you explain this one? Running isn't really what I associate the breath weapon save with.

>>52418991

Yeah, I thought that was off, too. vs Dragon Breath IMO is all about dodging area effects.

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>>52418991
>Running isn't really what I associate the breath weapon save with.

Breath weapons are explosions. And what do action heroes do in movies when stuff blow up?

They run.

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I converted a PF monster to 2e and I'm not entirely sure why.

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>>52419062
I associate that save with stopping part of the blast with a shield, etc.

>>52419080
cause while Pathfinder is a mess in terms of rules, it actually has had some decent ideas when it comes to monster concepts

>>52419080
Well, PF has a chunk of good monsters. A great many more could afford being converted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbbqMoEwDqc

What editions are these supposed to portray?

>>52419126
Saving throws don't really come to play in these situations at all: either the shield is magical and it blocks the whole thing, or the shield is normal and you'll die.

>>52419183
Or you pass your save and block enough of the breath to take half damage.

>>52419244
Anybody can save, even when naked: save vs breath is area of fx

Any good adventures set up in the northern climates? Ice, snow, frozen mountains, etc.?

>>52419527
Dark of The Moon
Jaunt: Blood in the snow

>>52419062
When you Save v. Breath, your position on the board doesn't change.

>>52414491
>What is the /correct/ way to do Saves?
I have yet to see a system that improves on the original saving throw system.

>>52419734
It should, though.

>>52414491

If the adventurers are unlucky they find the demogorgon suckling when they enter chamber D. The chance is 1 in 13.

You can purchase a special die for this roll but in a pinch have a player draw from a deck of cards with a jack indicating a suckling incident.

>>52420154
I've seen this dungeon posted a dozen times. I've always wondered about it everytime.

How many hitpoints does the demogorgon normally have? What is he doing in this dungeon? Why does a demon have a mom? So many questions.

>>52420535
>How many hitpoints does the demogorgon normally have?
200.
>What is he doing in this dungeon?
A lovely picnic with his mother.
>Why does a demon have a mom?
The same reason Grendel did.

But really, none of these things ever made any sense in the old OSR. Shit was wacky and weird and utterly nonsensical. I suspect this dungeon attempts to capture the same sense of magic and wonder, and in my opinion succeeds wonderfully.

It's a lovely little dungeon that I've run several times, always to a delight of all parties.

I always used modules and adventures, and really want advice on how to get off the training wheels and create something from the grounds up. It seems incredibly intimidating.

>>52417564
I literally just found his channel yesterday and it's like "yeah this is pretty good." Most is stuff I'm already aware of but his one vid about types of players where it's two categories: players and spectators really struck a chord

>>52420625
>none of these things ever made any sense in the old OSR.

Depends a lot on who you played with. If you followed the interview upthread, the guy says most DMs came up with backgrounds for their dungeons and stuff, but the players never really cared, as they were always too caught up in the novelty of the experience to give a damn about background details like that.

>>52420844

Just start off by making a small frontier town, put down a couple of things for the players to do, and then just run with it.

>>52420844
>and create something from the grounds up
Start by drawing lines, mostly in loops.
A whole bunch of lines.
Then make a flowchart of rooms (following the lines).
It's OK to add extra rooms (small loops or branches) at this point.
Then, draw a map that matches the flowchart.
At this point, how the rooms connect actually matters.
Pick a theme for the dungeon, if you haven't already.
Give every 9th or 10th room something of note, a trap, a monster, treasure, whatever.
Maybe crack open the Gygaxian DMG to help with ratios.

Draft up a Wandering Monster table for your floor/section.
Add 3d4 connections in/out of the floor/section (to the surface, further down, a tunnel off the side, whatever).
And bam! you're done with the section.
Give any dungeon 3 sections to start with.

And then for more practice, four or five more dungeons.

whats the difference between 2e and all the osr?

>>52421150
The OSR tends to be based on older and more basic versions of D&D, with great many less rules and usually races as classes.

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What could a radical Illusionist research?

What sort of things (aside from mirrors) would they have lying around their lair?

>>52421172
That's /osrg/, the OSR scene as a whole prefers AD&D to B/X.

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>>52421419
Narrative.
K'yu stones.

>>52421425
Yeah, but all the retroclones and other new systems are based on B/X and the others, and AD&D only has OSRIC and maybe Castles & Crusades.

>>52421485
Yeah, but plenty of people play the originals, and retroclones are a mark of discontent.

>>52421419

Tapestries
Prisms
Crystal prisons
Seer stones
Paints and paintings
Weird looking animals in cages (may or may not be illusions)
Fake windows (each window shows a different outside)
Indoor rainbow
Indoor weather
Indoor forest
Indoor ocean
Huge wardrobe
Things bigger on inside then outside
Projector screens
Fairies in bottles

I don't really get why everyone wants to make the illusionist their own class though.

>>52421425
I'm not sure if that's right. Most blogs seem to deal with houserules and musings for B/X, and most retroclones stem from B/X, BECMI and OD&D.

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>>52421538
I don't get it either, but I did it, so we're stuck now.

I've decided the touchpoints are going to be the study of light (the way elementalists study the elements), bad science, wrong theories, and mirror universes/dimensional travel. Should make them more interesting.

Thanks. All good ideas.

I wonder what happens if you crossbreed a real animal and an illusory animal?

>>52421538
Probably just because the illusionist was once its own class, and they feel like keeping on going with the tradition.

Personally I'd rather go the other way and make all specialist wizards their own classes.

Though if I had to pick just one specialist to turn into its own class, I'd rather go with necromancer than illusionist.

>>52421569
>I wonder what happens if you crossbreed a real animal and an illusory animal?

Probably nothing, as illusory animals are not real and therefore neither is their genetic material.

But if you did somehow manage, then I guess you'd just get some manner of a permanent semi-shadow illusion.

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>>52421576
That's basically what I'm going with. 10 specialist Wizard types: Animist, Biomancer, Drowned, Elf, Garden, Illusionist, Necromancer, Orthodox, and White Hand.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-wizard-schools-stolen-from-goblin_7.html

Seems like it has lots of room to be objectively terrible and bad. But eh, at least there's room for everyone.

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>>52421602
Maybe that's how you get Blink Dogs?

>>52421419
>What could a radical Illusionist research?
A totally simulated illusion pocket dimension. Imagine TNG's holo deck (with safety protocols off because wizards have no sens of right and wrong)

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>>52421685

"I've created illusions of all of history's greatest villains! But I haven't told them they are illusions. And I've locked them in this one room. Don't worry, I've locked it with this large, extremely obvious lock."

>>52421510
>and retroclones are a mark of discontent.

That's a very weird position. Retroclones are a collection of people's houserules, and games tweaked for specific things.

>>52421644

I like some of your spells and the reimagining of the Goblin Punch classes, especially the Animist which I want to play now but...

I think you missed the points. The different Wizard schools aren't really meant to be different classes. They are all Wizards, each being able to cast spells and shit, but they are whacky weird traditions. The fear of drowning and going to hell isn't some class feature of the old Goblin Punch drowned Wizard, it's a quirky cultural trait. I think you missed the point here.

>>52421569
>I wonder what happens if you crossbreed a real animal and an illusory animal?
Fully real and fantastical creatures, which have different forms and powers from the perspective of different onlookers.

You might see a small cockatrice, where your partner sees a sheep covered in eyes.
It pecks at your partner's knees, as... they raise their shield to the sky then burst into flames?
Oh no, it's staring at you! Save v. Death.

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My brother made this for my old school campaign I'm running, and we're extremely excited/pleased with how this turned out! Have you guys got any cool custom stuff for your campaign?

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>>52421952
They're all based around the same core class - the Wizard template/magic system surprisingly isn't that variable.

Also, my Drowned Wizards deviated pretty hard from Arnold's. They share the name and some of the spells and that's about it. Mine are the survivors of not-Atlantis. The ocean loves them and wants to claim them if it can. The entire ocean is stalking them. They'll get their own writeup eventually.

They all play like the same class, more or less. They're based on the same template. They have to deal with the same problems (spells per day, no extra hp and no armour, fear of other wizards coveting their spells), but each school has a few perks and a few downsides that make them feel different and synergize with each other or the entire party.

>>52421569

If you crossbreed them it will create a normal animal with some weird but natural strangeness, like an usually large or small size, weird coloration, pattern that seems to be a simple, ability to walk on two legs for a long time as a trick, and so on. Kind of like how humans breed with fairies and demons to make MUs.

>>52421952
>The different Wizard schools aren't really meant to be different classes

Nor is druid, nor rangers or paladins, nor bards. For the record.

>>52422029

Alright.

And just in case you didn't notice; you fucked up the doom table with the Garden Wizard. Not listed under its own category, it runs into the mishap table. Just FYI

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>>52421972
I like this. But it's only a Save vs Illusory Death (which is quite convincing for a few minutes, and may involve illusory valkyries and/or illusory hell)

>>52422040
I wasn't aware humans bred with supernatural creatures to get MUs. I thought that you just got... weird shit.

MUs have to go to wizard school.

Also, I can understand demons wanting to get it on with humans. What are faeries getting out of the deal?

>>52422078
>I wasn't aware humans bred with supernatural creatures to get MUs. I thought that you just got... weird shit.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. In some settings humans aren't really too good at the magic thing, obviously any human that can do magic is a bit of a freak.

>Also, I can understand demons wanting to get it on with humans. What are faeries getting out of the deal?
They like to have sex?

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>>52422057
Aww balls, thanks for pointing that out. Fixed.

Animist Wizards are going to be fun. We've only had an Elementalist and an Illusionist so far, which is why the last few posts were elemental-based, and the next few are about illusions.

>>52421644

Coins and Scrolls guy; are you ever gonna run a game from the /osrg/? PLEASSSEEEE?

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>>52422112
>They like to have sex?

Ask a silly question...

Anyway, yeah, does seem to vary setting to setting. I figure you're either a freak by birth or a freak by taking out several thousand gold pieces in nondischargeable wizard student loans.

>>52421550
>>52421825
ignore that guy he's obviously one of those "True AD&D" weirdos

>>52421972
that is terrifying

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>>52422126
Sorry, I don't think I'd do to well with the online thing.

But I hope that I write enough useful stuff that people get inspired to run their own. That's the idea.

>>52421467
Do K'yu stones show up anywhere else? I can't find anything about them.

>>52422001
That is some excellent frog-based art.

>>52422120
>>52422158

Aww. That's a shame.

I was actually really getting a kick out of the Animist myself. I think they really fit in well with that fairy tale witch miyazaki-style evil Wizard character archetype that I love so much. Also the Orthodox Wizard is a real cool guy as well, if not through sheer generic awesome useful Wizard spell list.

I haven't read through your whole blog yet but are those spells listed anywhere, or are they not yet in print as it were? I'd like to know what a lot of those spells do in this system.

However I WILL complain about the Orthodox Wizard's doom. Why is it just 'lose the ability to cast spells'? If anything he should get the Garden Wizard's doom of forgetting shit and going senile. The garden Wizard on the other hand should become a tree or some shit, or because they become more down to earth they should lose spellcasting abilities, not the regular Wizard!

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>>52422224
You can find most of the spells on Arnold's blog. I think I cited them pretty thoroughly here:https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-wizard-schools-stolen-from-goblin.html

But I also rewrote most (ok, all) of them. As I write up each class in full (like I did for Elementalists https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-elementalist-wizards.html), I'll also post their spells.

As for the Orthodox Wizard Doom.

Easy answer: it was like that when I stole it.

Actual answer:
Orthodox Wizards are all about inventing and codifying spells. Other classes might cast spells, sure, but the Orthodox school is all spells. It's what they do.

They are also the classic battle-wizards. They're the guys you hire because they are reputable and solid and well trained. They aren't "weird". So when they lose their spellcasting ability, not only do they lose the reliability that made them so useful, they also lose their livelihood and reason for existing. It's worse than dying, because they are otherwise fine. They don't rot or turn into an illusion or lose their minds. They just... stop being an Orthodox Wizard. Forever.

>>52421569
>I wonder what happens if you crossbreed a real animal and an illusory animal?
You'd get the semi imaginary dinosaur. Someone link me to it, it was a great article.

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>>52422147
>that is terrifying

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>>52422466
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.ca/2012/11/imaginary-dinosaur.html

Ya lazy fuck.

>>52422078
>MUs have to go to wizard school.
Depends on how you like your abhuman spooks.
Merlin was a half-devil, Count Dracula went to a college run by the Devil.

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>>52422158
>Do K'yu stones show up anywhere else?

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>>52422666
That's it? Vaguely disappointing.

>>52422619
>Count Dracula went to a college run by the Devil.

Say what?

This isn't one of those Chinese cartoons you like so much, is it?

>>52422700 Straight from Bram Stoker:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholomance

>>52422749
>when real life is stranger than fiction

I will say that's a pretty cool idea. I think I will have something similar in my setting.

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>>52422749
Well, that'd do it then.

That's an awfully neat idea for a game. Are you and your friends ready to rob the Devil's Hogwarts and nick his library of priceless lore?

>>52422700
>the Faculty in bathroom
I just realized I need to run a high mortality campaign in a college of wizardry.
You better be careful even in the bath, especially if it is built by Bloody Stupid Johnson.

>>52422700 >>52422822 >>52422827
Incidentally, the vast majority of his powers and restrictions were because he was a Magic-User.
Vampires drank blood to restore their youth and gain supernatural strength, gave their blood to spread their demonic possession, and had an aversion to garlic.
They may or may not have an aversion to religious symbolism.

Count Dracula's shape-shifting, illusions, vermin hordes, telepathy, weather control, hypnosis, teleportation, (alleged) undead horde, and ability to find and follow paths were all straight up magic.
His inability to cross running water (unless aided or during high or low tide), his inability to enter houses without invitation, etc. etc. were all restrictions imposed by his magic use.
Same deal for sunlight too. He (and his daughters) were fine to go out in the sun, but most of his magic (also vampiric blood drinking) was weakened or non-functional during the day.

Also of note, Count Dracula was a crotchety old man with a handlebar mustache and a unibrow.
Also also, the symptoms of vampire attacks were supposed to be a Gotcha! They're the same as pneumonia, which was the "go to" dramatic illness in literature at the time.

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>>52422898
It's an excellent way to do things. Give everyone a random spell or two, have them work together, then reveal that they'll only be able to graduate if a) their class size gets reduced or b) some of the senior wizards "retire".

>>52422975
Good to know. Magic Users with restrictions are excellent.

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>>52422975
>Also also, the symptoms of vampire attacks were supposed to be a Gotcha!

That gives me an idea. What about a list of diseases and symptoms with a "twist" ending, for use in OSR games?

>You think you have pneumonia. You are faint, feverish, weak, delusional, and occasionally blood appears on your sheets. You are sometimes nauseous. Turns out it's actually a vampire drinking your blood.

>You think you have scrofula. Your neck is swelling and scabbing. It doesn't hurt, but it looks hideous. It turns out...

>You think you have mummy rot. Your flesh is drying out and becoming grey around the wound. You are becoming weaker and weaker. Today, you could not even get out of bed. It turns out...

>>52423215
That would probably work better backwards.
I'd sooner guess vampires than pneumonia, at least in fantasy.

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>>52423812
Well, Mummy Rot could be leukemia. Or really aggressive leprosy.

But yeah, both of these are reversible in principle.

And imagine. An entire party of adventurers "stakes" out a virginal young woman who is experiencing vampiric night time visits. She dies in a coughing fit. They all come down with pneumonia.

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>>52419133
>>52419156
Do you have any requests/suggestions? And yeah, I noticed some errors in Amanusya that I have to correct.

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The moon has decided to visit your castle. Why?

How do you make it leave?

>>52425229
I think I still owe the moon five bucks.

Lemme get my wallet.

>>52425229
>What a terrible night to have lycanthropy.

>>52425229

My wizard probably made it come here for a booty call.

Fucking Wizards.

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>>52425258
What did the moon spend the money on?

>>52425261
Nah, see, if you touch the moon you get superpowers. True story.

>>52425273
Pic related

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that reference
>>52425290

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>>52425331
It's all right! If my memes can save others, I gladly surrender my life.

>>52417343
>1 hour, 58 minutes
>they used d6s as monster "figures"
>and spun them down to track hp

>>52425547

Hell, I do that today, though I do it behind my DM screen. Help me remember where everyone's at relative to each other, and track HP at the same time.

>>52425603
What I was getting at is he used monster hp as "open" information.

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>>52425615
Well, yeah. It's a tactical game based on wargames.

Different time, different mentality.

>>52425653
Alright. Now justify why it should be "hidden" information.

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>>52425666
What, objectively, for all systems and game styles?

You must think I'm some sort of easily baited fool.

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>>52425693
10/10 pivot.

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>>52425803
Excellent.

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Postulate.

Light radiates from light sources, and carries heat with it.

Kingship radiates from monarchical sources and carries royal prestige with it.

Light can be split by a prism into the eight true colours.

Can kingship be split by a prism? If so, what is the prism made of? And what are the "colours" of royalty?

>>52425852
Fear, Love, Money, Swords, Spooky fear, Bureaucracy, Neopistism, and Purple.

>>52425852
>Can kingship be split by a prism?

Yes. All things can be split, quantified, atomized. This is how magic works.

>What are the "colours" of royalty?

The colors would be
>Superiority & Being a 'big boy'
>Strength (Military & Social)
>Prestige & Being 'above' common folk
>Chivalry, Religion, or 'Noblesse Oblige'
>Wealth or access to resources
>Nuclear relationship (King is at the core)
>Fame, wanted or not
>Longevity; actions carry far into future

The prism is revolt.

*Nepotism

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>>52425903
>Purple

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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>>52425915
>The prism is revolt.

Excellent list.

Now, since Kings rarely enjoy revolts, and they are both expensive and destructive, is it possible to assay the spectrum of kingship by, perhaps, building a prism of condensed revolt and holding it near the King?

Perhaps by distilling the minds of eight traitors and revolutionaries, crystallizing the resulting fluid, and polishing it with the flags of forgotten nations, we can build a device capable of splitting the rays of kingship that emanate from royalty.

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>>52425963

I don't know what's happened to muh OSR general, but I LIKE it.

Have some filk, >>52425988: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNerjnwhbts

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>>52425988
WIZARD SCIENCE is occurring.

Postulate 2.

Now that we have established a method and spectrum for Kingship (and Abominated the Colour purple as is right and proper, we must consider other spectrum and other properties.

For example, if Kingship can be split by the prism of Revolt, can it be condensed by a Lens of some description? What best condenses and collates Kingship?

So if Ability checks are non-osr, how exactly would you adjudicate a situation where you would need to roll?

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>>52426024
War, of course.

>>52426032
Since when were they non-OSR? Plenty of people use them.

I use the LotFP skills personally.

>>52426032
Arbitrate an X-in-Y chance of success, with chance as feels appropriate.
Possibly give slight weight by stats and probably give weight by level.

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>>52426051
But of course! Wars do tend to result in a condensation of kings.

A lens of war... this could be quite difficult to manufacture. Perhaps a pane of ice made from the frozen tears of eight hundred and eighty eight widows, and ringed by the melted iron swords of generals who fell in battle?

Yes, that might do it.

We will need eight such lenses, and eight kings. The rays of kingship they emanate will then be concentrated on a single, non-royal subject, to see if kingship can be induced, just as heat can be induced in cold wood by the condensation of the rays of the sun.

Yes. I will begin finding the widows. You, dispatch my finest hirelings to locate a suitable number of kings.

>>52426097
Don't listen to that fool!
The TRUE ANSWER is bogeymen and common enemies!

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>>52426116
False deceiver! How could common enemies collate and condense the properties of a single king?

Perhaps, if you needed to /alloy/ kingship, as an alchemist might alloy gold and silver, you could heat them over a flame fed by common enemies. But I will leave such tasks to the alchemists (or perhaps the biomancers, for the result is sure to be grisly).

>>52426024
>>52426051

No, war is a bad lens.

War COULD work as a lens, but it favors certain kingly colors over others. It would be look using a green lens to magnify regular light. Technically it magnifies light, but it is not pure or focusing all the beams since it is scattering the green light. In the same way, a war lens will absorb all the colors but scatter the military and might royal colors everywhere.

Strife is a good idea for one as well, but this might also muddy up the colors due to peacetime kingship being ignored here.

Perhaps then the best lens is time, focusing the best kingly colors and the failures fail to pass, like a form of royal bloodline evolutionary karma.

>>52426116

Yet bogeymen and common enemies are the major components of a war - one may easily condense the former into the latter, as proven by Huan Din the Resplendent in his treatise, A Distillation of Metamagical Bellicosity!

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I did another one, this time Shabti.

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>>52426139
Blast! You are correct on all points.

Gustav! Cancel the widows.

But surely the risk of using a lens of Time is the risk of Consanguinity, for that scourge does seem to crop up in every royal line as time progresses. We could begin building a Kingship Condenser and end up with a device that turns ordinary men into twisted, hunchbacked, chinless, impotent mutants!

And while that might be considered a success by some biomancers, it simply will not do for our purposes.

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>>52426139
>but it favors certain kingly colors over others
That's true of any material.
You're can't get around it without getting tricky.

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Very well. Let us leave the matter of a kingship lens for now, and consider another matter.

It is well know that Wisdom also radiates. This is how universities and colleges work; the wise radiate wisdom, and it passes into the ignorant, just as heat from a fire passes into cold peasants.

This process is damnably slow. Many students seem to gain no wisdom, no matter how wise the lecturer is. Others seem to gain the wrong lessons entirely.

First, what is the spectrum of Wisdom?

Second, how can we build a prism for Wisdom, and condense only the most useful portions of the spectrum into the minds the woeful students that we are sent these days?

>>52413488
Saves are death/rod/stone/breath/spell, not death/stone/rod/breath/spell.

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>>52426251

I do not know what exact spectrum wisdom is, but if you want to focus its most useful aspect then take out the content and willingness to learn at your own pace from wisdom and condense it into the student's brain.

This can be done easily. Trepanning is a useful and common medical practice. Any side effects can be cured by leeches. If you want to be safe, give the leeches sentience first and have them sit in a few lectures in a water bowl to intro philosophy.

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>>52426251
You misinterpret the problem! If you seek wisdom, laugh at a fool.
But /intelligence/ is the antithesis of ignorance.

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Anyone actually ran a campaign using Small but Vicious Dog?

Looking over it, it seems good to me. Brutality of WHFRP with the perfection of OD&D, though from cursory searches through google and tg it seems like few have ever used it. Will probably use it anyway, just hacked for my liking, though interested to see if anyone actually used it and just never talked about it.

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>>52426310
>If you seek wisdom, laugh at a fool.

Tried that. Build a machine to cart fools in front of me and make them do foolish things. I didn't get any wiser for the experience, unless "wisdom" and "boredom and poverty" are correlated.

>>52426299
Trepanning! Of course!

Are there any issues caused by granting the leeches sentience?

>>52426374
>Are there any issues caused by granting the leeches sentience?

Yes. I suspect they may eventually gain a taste for Wizard blood and may gain spellcasting ability.

I recommend not letting them into any spellcasting classes, and occasionally feeding them commoner blood. Maybe witch-hunter blood if you want to be safe.

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>if you want to be safe

>>52424484
>>52426161
Huldra and lampad are both a lot of fun.

But then, I like all my fairy tale bullshit.

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>>52424484
Pipefox

Just look at this adorable little shit.

Is Night Below any good?

>>52427379
I badly want one of those as a pet/companion, and I'd wear him like a scarf and he'd smoke his pipe and it would be incredible

>>52421569
>I wonder what happens if you crossbreed a real animal and an illusory animal?
That's where monsters come from. Nature used to be just normal Earth animals, until wizards started pulling illusory creatures in from nightmares and hashish visions and breeding them with normal animals. Cockatrices were originally just chickens. Bugbears are just men infused with children's horror stories. Gryphons and owlbears don't even consist of much illusion at all, they're just two real animals mashed together with just enough daydream to keep the hybrids vital.

Sometimes they bred out almost all the reality out of a creature, leaving only just enough to keep the creature around; that's where efreet, shadows, and (otherworld-type) elves come from. Immortality, the ability to conjure things from thin air and grant wishes, are the product of a really tenuous connection to reality. Originally, wizars themselves were almost powerless. Wizards of old stitched illusions into themselves and crossbred with imaginary demons to produce potent magical lineages. This is why the oldest wizards around are so often wyrd, inhuman freaks.

>>52426171
Am I reading that wrong or are girls marrying their uncles?

Is there any good gaming resource about the 30-year war?
It seems like an interesting era, and I'd like to read up a bit more on it.

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So, Darkest Dungeon.

It's basically a bigass old-school dungeon crawl, about finding treasure and managing resources. Pretty OSR if you ask me.

What's the best system or edition to run a Darkest Dungeon game in?

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>>52425273
>he wouldn't fuck the moon

>>52429004
LotFP for lethality. Fantastic Heroes and Witchery for wierd magic and class variety.

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>>52428118
Correct.

You've got 5 minutes to click click roll roll generate an *interesting* dungeon before the session starts.

-what bookmarks did you click?
-what tables did you roll on?

>>52430454
One of Dyson's Delves plus some good old-fashioned making shit up.

>>52430454
Wizardawn
Can't get any better than that.

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>>52429004

>>52430531
I never knew of Wizardawn and this is some awesome shit.

What's the difference between the dungeon delve and dungeon builder, though?

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>>52414491
So what's the best way to run cyberpunk in OSR style? Not just mechanically (tho that might be helpful), I'll take any and all ideas.

The only thing I don't like about cyberpunk is journeying into the internet or having internet adventures. I think it's dumb and it takes the players out of the game because I run a game for millennials and they grew up with internet.

Any ideas or resources you could spare to help me out?

>>52431361
You don't like the Internet? Well, then set the entire game INTO the Internet to deal with that problem.

In other words, read up on Server Crash, a /tg/ setting that was a thing nearly ten years ago for a few months.

Then have the party crawl into dungeons of the old porn sites, fighting viruses and rogue AIs.

>>52431361
Make the serious databanks out of the cyber, requiring man-on-site to hack. Use Augmented Reality as the way a Hacker deals with environment and enemy (basically magic), hacking weapons and cybernetics of friends and foes.

>>52431140
iirc, dungeon delve gives you a megadungeon

>>52422749
Hunh. I learned a new thing today. Thanks.

I've been looking at Heroes and Other Worlds
A lot there to like, but I've been wondering how the power levels translate into DnD-styled low-level exploration. And how the scaling looks like in practice.

Anything worth playing/stealing from Secret Santicore?
(trove has 2011 and 2014 ony)

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Did another PF > 2e conversion. While these run a little long by MC standards, keep in mind that I'm using big images and I'm cutting down the length of the entries by 25% or so.

>>52427327
>>52427379
Request noted.

>>52432284
I haven't had a chance to run it but generally speaking, imagine if D&D PCs stopped gaining HP/HD past 3rd level. An adventurer can max out a combat skill so that he literally never misses but a well-placed arrow can still kill him. HOW 's PC power curve basically goes from murderhobos to glass cannon demigods.

Is there a nice concise monster pdf? Something like half a dozen pages of "iconic" d&d monsters.

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>>52433135 Never seen anything like that before.
Anyways, here's Wondewall: https://youtu.be/bx1Bh8ZvH84

>>52426261
It's death/wand/stone/breath/spell if you go by Basic, though rods and staves get lumped in with spells there. In AD&D, it actually *is* death/stone/rod/breath/spell.

>>52433967

>>52428840
I recall Lamentations had an adventure in that time period, didn't it?

Ah, here: Better Than Any Man.

am i blind, or is An Echo, Resounding not in the Trove? (and if so does anyone have it and feel like sharing?)

>>52434889
Is it actually a good primer on the entire era? Or just a small adventure?

>>52414491
>What is the /correct/ way to do Saves?

I use stats.

If its of normal difficulty roll UNDER the stat on a D20, no bonus ( avoiding a pit trap)

If it's something that is difficult roll UNDER HALF the stat rounded down ( avoiding a Fireball in a narrow hallway).

Of course the difficulty is something the GM decides.

This way cuts down on bullshit saves by class/level so its up to raw skill/ability of the characters.

>>52434909

Did you look for Sine Nomine, or for Red Tide?

>>52434998
It has some good background info and it's a pretty big detailed adventure.

>>52435101
wherever i was looking was the wrong place. it was under Sine Nomine Publishing then under Red Tide.

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Another for the pile.
If I keep this up I'll soon have an actual appendix of PF beasties.

>>52431361
>>52431433
setting the entire game inside of the Internet wouldn't be a bad way to justify having certain D&Disms like classes or "magic" roaming around

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>>52435687

Hell yeah!

>>52435687
>>52435803
The premise of Server Crash was that in the future all human minds were connected to the Internet 24/7, but then this worldwide Internet glitch or something happened and pulled them all into the cyberspace. Old hyperlinks can be used to travel between webpages, but they're all scrambled and no longer lead where they used to. Populated websites, that a lot of folks were browsing at the time it all happened - Wikipedia, 4chan, Facebook, Imgur - formed walled communities. Adventurers are sent out to explore the ruins of the Internet, mine lost webpages for data, rescue survivors, fight rampaging AI and viruses, and discover other settled webpages and form pathways between them.

Web-druids tame viruses, cyber-tinkerers deal with AIs the same way. Google is the Warp: fast but deadly. Ancient fifties supercomputers occasionally wake up and wreck shit. Characters can integrate themselves closer to the Internet, like remember they no longer need to breathe because they don't have any lungs, but lose some humanity as a result.

It was pretty fun shit for a time.

Bizarrely, 1d4chan still has a link on its front page: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Category:Server_Crash_Fluff

>>52435687
Magic is part of settings and classes are a gameist abstraction.
You don't /need/ to justify them.

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>>52435555
They'll still be false edition though

>>52435873

This right here.

Actually, in all honesty, it took me until I tried playing 5e to really get this concept. I couldn't believe how stupid I felt not getting it before.

The bard could literally be a wizard school dropout with a magical instrument. Or just a guy who plays instruments really well. The Ranger is a fighter who made a special bond with his animal companion, and now has powers of nature, etc. It's not like classes have to be a specific in-world organization or trade that is taught like master to student.

Isn't as important for OSR because classes are simpler but holy shit did I feel dumb for not getting this.

>>52435984
What was it about 5e that helped you clinch this?

>>52435873
>>52435984
you don't NEED to justify them, but it helps to do at least a little justifying when doing more "modern" or "futuristic" settings as people are more likely to nitpick about that sort of thing for some reason than when it's your standard pseudo-Medieval fantasy setting

>>52436060

That it had so many classes that were so similar. Like why is there a bard class? Why is there a paladin AND cleric? Why is there a ranger, barbarian, AND druid? Wizard, Sorcerer, AND Warlock? It just clicked I guess.

>>52436354
Sorc and Wiz I can see, but Warlock, if anything, is closer to Cleric than either.

>>52435075
I'll never understand the worship of stat creep. That's even farther from old school than any WotC edition.

Anyone know where somatic components are explained? Specifically, the ONLY place I can find an indication that it requires two hands is from THE UNSPEAKABLE TOME.

>>52436578
You might as well roll them since you have them, though. If a character must accomplish some feat of agility or balance, and no skill or stat already covers it, why not just roll DEX?

>>52436668
Because its totally insane and broken? You may as well use a 1-30 stat scale.

Most people's stats will give, what, a +1 to a -1? Maybe +2 to -2? You have stats giving the equivalent of a 20 or a 1 (in 5e) at 5 or 15. Bad stats fuck you approximately five times as much.

>>52436771
Then roll 2d10, or maybe a whole bunch of d6s (more dice for more for difficult tasks), instead of 1d20.

I've seen both done and they seem to work all right.

>>52436668
Saving throws ≠ Rolling to accomplish feats

>>52414491
>What is the /correct/ way to do Saves?

Only one saving throw based on your worst attribute. Pure luck.

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Do any of you gents have a high rez picture of the AD&D second printing DMG? The pic related one.

The WOTC prints have a different cover. Thanks.

https://chgowiz-games.blogspot.co.nz/2017/03/i-survived-tim-fking-kasks-dungeon-part-1.html

I just read this blogpost about a dude that recently played OD&D with Tim Kask. What stood out to me is that Kask apparently plays with a very quick tempo, expecting rooms to be gone through fast and problems to be solved through quick wit. It made me start thinking that a part of the old school D&D game is to have a pretty fast pace.

How fast do you feel that your games go? I feel like I'm very generous to my players, describing the rooms two or maybe three times and allow them to take time in making decisions. I partially do this because I think a fast-paced game would just lead to confusion and frustration for my players, since they only have about a year's worth of experience for roleplaying as a whole.

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Is it wrong I want to mod a retroclone to make an RPG inspired by the earliest Final Fantasy, before the serie went to shit and completely moved away from it's fantasy and oldschool RPG roots. Not any specific final fantasy setting but rather taking the core plot, setting and even story elements of the franchise's early day and, taking back the inspiration the original had from D&D, make it into a tabletop RPG.

Class-wise, all the basics are there. Fighter and Thieves don't need any change. A Monk could be added. Wizard/Black Mage probably don't need much tweaking from the oldschool Magic User as one could assume the non-damaging spells of the Black Mage probably include such staples as detect magic and whatnot.

The one which bugs me is the White Mage, which I guess would be a squishier and more casting-oriented Cleric. As a conceit to D&D, I could see White Mage keep the Turn Undead mechanic since they are also sometimes called Priests anyway and cure/revive hurt the undead in oldschool JRPG, which in itself no doubt is a deformation of the cleric's ability to turn undead.

I'm tempted to use Basic Fantasy because its the one most suitable to the players I got, who prefer some modern conceit such as scaling AC which I myself don't mind. Which bring me to the next point:

Should Red Mages be a hybrid Black/White mage, requiring one to have the requirements of both classes and functioning like the Fighter/Magic User hybrid of the elves or should it be its own class, with good spell flexibility but less spells and weaker at higher levels. At the same time, the Red Mage usually does use better weapon and armors in older titles but ultimately suffer from being a jack of all trades master of nothing.

>>52437832
Furthermore, how would one implement class change/improvement mid-campaign in an OSR game? Such as after a player has done an extremely difficult quest they are allowed to upgrade their class. Is this *too* videogame-ey or is the idea feasible? I mean by that mainly, perhaps, improved hit dice, saves or spells not a total replacement.

>>52436771
Just use roll-under. It works well as a "replacement skill system" as well. Then a 10 str and a 15 str have a +5 difference between each other. It's actually a higher level of specialization than what you'd have in 5e(with point buy) where a +4 is the highest possible difference between fully specializing and having a 10 with no specialty. Hell, an 18 in a roll under system is equivalent to having a +8 in a DC system.

>>52437832
Final Fantasy is basically just AD&D but formatted to work as an NES game. Just use that for the authentic experience. Red Mages are just elven fighter/magic users.

>>52437937
The problem is that your stats are random. All you're doing with this kind of system is further crippling characters with low scores.

>>52437832
Final Fantasy 1 (and 2?) are riffing AD&D as well as their poorly coded, file size limitations selves can manage.
Which is actually kind of surprising. Most Nippon fROGs of that time were riffing Wizardry (...which was riffing D&D).
Anyways, just play AD&D.

>>52437832
>nd cure/revive hurt the undead in oldschool JRPG, which in itself no doubt is a deformation of the cleric's ability to turn und
That's actually a later addition. In the NES version, Turn Undead was replicated by a separate series of spells that harmed Undead and Demons, etc.

>Should Red Mages be a
Red Mages are bards.

>>52438403
>Red Mages are bards.

Too good at what they do, can't do thievery, can't sing for shit.

Rolled 12, 15, 14, 6, 2, 8 = 57 (6d15)

Well, /osrg/, are you ready?

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If you don't roll and get yourself a Name, are you truly a wizard?

Rolled 14, 9, 9, 3, 6, 11 = 52 (6d15)

>>52438538

>>52438473
>Too good at what they do,
AD&D bards.
Though Red Mages aren't as weird at early levels.
>can't do thievery,
Neither can the Thieves.
>can't sing for shit.
AD&D bards.

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>>52438593
You can be no wizard without a name

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>>52438538
Pfftt. I posted one with bad instructions. I am a bad wizard.

>>52436960
I dunno, if you look at Appendix N then saving throws = feats. Lots of straining muscles letting heroes leap out of harms and willing oneself to resist magic.

>>52435687
>>52431361
>>52431440
>>52431433
Dungeons & Digimon?

>>52438726
>Dungeons & Digimon?

Yeah, that really sounds about right.

>>52438637
>AD&D bards.

Pretty sure AD&D bards could sing.

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>>52438779
They could sing to cast suggestion, or to blot out harpy screeches.
Their main shtick was item identification, poetry, and getting 7d10+(7*CON bonus at Fighter rate)+12d6+(12*CON Bonus)+12 hp.

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>>52421644

Hey Anon, I don't know who you are but I can't thank you enough.

I was so disappointed when Arnold posted those awesome martial classes, but the magic classes were really lackluster. This is perfect, thanks.

Are thieves restricted in the weapons they can use in AD&D? The PHB says "They are, however, able to wear light (leather) armor and use a fair number of weapons" but I can't find what weapons those are.

>>52438637
>>red mages
>>can't do thievery,
>Neither can the Thieves.

Ooooh, sick burn!

>>52439678
In 1st edition? There's a table at the bottom of page 19 that list allowable weapons and armor for all the classes.

>>52439329
Thanks. I'm actually working on the Summoner class now. I'll post the ideas in a bit. The Illusionist Wizard just went up on the blog.

>>52440116
Ah, thank you.
And it wouldn't break anything (besides thematics) to let a thief wield a shortbow, would it?

>>52440179
Thieves are pretty weak, so I certainly don't think that would break the game.

>>52440168

I WANT THE ANIMIST WRITE UP
REEEE

Can somebody post that 100 class pyramid thing?

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A few threads back there was some discussion of a "Summoner" class, based around Solomon and his Seal and the 72 demons listed in the Goetia.

Here's my take on the idea. It's pretty rough at the moment.

Class: Summoner

Starting Equipment: robes, dagger
Each level you take in this class gives you a template (A through D) in order.

A: +1 SD, +1 Summon Slot, +2 Entities, Summoning
B: +1 SD, +1 Summon Slot, +2 Entities, Powerful Hold
C: +1 SD, +1 Summon Slot +2 Entities, Soul Vision
D: +1 SD, +1 Summon Slot, Master Summoner

You gain +1 Summoning Die and +1 Summon Slot for each Summoner template you possess, to a maximum of 4 each.

Summoning:
There are 99, and only 99, Entities that can be summoned. Each has a name, a description, and a list of abilities. They are sentient, but their minds may work in strange ways. Summon an Entity by rolling your Summoning Dice. Dice return to your pool and can be used again on a 1-3 and are exhausted for the day on a 4-6. On doubles, a Mishap occurs. On triples, a Doom occurs. You can only summon an Entity once per day, and you can only control a number of entities equal to your Summon Slots at the same time. You can summon an entity for [sum] hours before it vanishes, possibly to serve another master. It takes one round to summon an Entity. You must be able to speak and you cannot be distracted.

You require its true name and a description of the mental acts required to call it to you. Seek ancient scrolls, temples, and cults to find entities to summon. Unlike Wizard spells, the information is does not disappear once it is learned. You can use the same instructional scroll to create an entire cult. However, as only 99 entities exist in Creation, most Summoners guard their knowledge jealously to avoid sharing power.

Powerful Hold:
Chose one entity you know how to summon. Instead of [sum] hours, the entity is summoned for [sum]x2 hours. Whenever you gain a level, you may change which entity this ability applies to.

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>>52440512
Master Summoner:
Roll for 6 additional Entities. Alternatively, name an Entity you already control. For as long as you live, the Entity that you name will always remain with you. You do not need to roll to summon it. It still occupies a Summon Slot.

Entities:
Some cults worship them as gods, spirits, angels, intercessors, or oracles. They are as varied and as wondrous as Creation. Entities have 10 Attack, 10 Defense, and 10 HP unless otherwise noted. They automatically Save against magic and magic-like effects unless the caster knows their true name, in which case they automatically fail. If an Entity is reduced to 0 HP it vanishes but can be resummoned easily.

The names listed are not their true names. Their true names are very difficult to write and pronounce.

[Basically, I want Entities to be "not demons or angels but something that could be mistaken for both"]

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>>52440531
Here are 3 example Entities. I'll eventually have a whole list of 99.

1. Melchior, of Eyes Unblinded
Enters from somewhere not observed by the caster. Appears as a withered old man in fine robes, or a beautiful young woman with no hair. In either form, Melchior will mutter constantly, repeating meaningless phrases or snippets of conversation. As long as Melchior can see the tongue of a creature, it can tell if the creature is lying. It will hiss and lunge at anyone who lies for purely selfish reasons, and will seek to remove their tongue. Melchior will carry items for you and will provide banal and useless advice if asked. Believed to be one of the most powerful Entities. Has 10 Defense and 10 HP unless it wants to have more.


2. Cantopas, the Grey Mirage
Enters and moves like smoke. Appears as a rippling cloud of grey-white fabric. Sheds light like a candle. An object smaller than an apple given to Cantopas will vanish. Cantopas moves as quickly as an arrow (150 miles per hour), and will bring the object to the location or person you designate, provided it can reach them before vanishing. If it cannot, it will try and drop the item somewhere along the quickest path. If Cantopas descends onto the head of a living creature, the creature must Save or be deafened and blinded for 1 round. Cantopas has 1 HP.
3. Thoriel, who Demands Reverence
Enters with a thunderclap. Appears as two rotating rings of white light, one inside the other, tumbling through the air. The size of a clenched fist. Shakes, as if enraged. Speaks in high-pitched monotone. Up to [dice] times per summon, can demand a single creature it can see "PRAY". The creature must make the sign of the Authority or, the next round, by struck by a 4d6 lightning bolt. Animals of Creation will kneel or bow instead. Can sense the presence of those who have consciously rejected the Church within 100', but cannot sense mindless creatures, undead, or those who were never converted.

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>>52440458
Eventually, anon. I just need to have a player in my game roll it up and answer some questions about it first.

>>52440512
>Summoning Dice
At least make multi-class Summoner/Wizards share dice from their templates.

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>>52440606
Nope, that'd be hella overpowered.

It's also a different sort of magic. You can think of Magic Dice as "Brain Calibre" for shooting mind bullets. Summoning Dice are "Soul Priority" or "Soul Availability" or "Power over Entities".

Very different things, in theory.

>>52440654
Well, if I ever uses it I can houserule that away...
Otherwise I like it. A lot.

But somewhere between pasting your write-up and deleting bits to fit within post limits,
>>52440512 the rules for "Soul Vision" got omitted.

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>take Pathfinder monsters
>convert them to AD&D 2e

I'M
D A M A G E D

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>>52440682
That's fair enough. You could even have it so that some schools (Animist, White Hand) get to combine their dice pools and some don't.

Ah well.

Soul Vision
You can see the souls of living creatures. This allows you to guess the approximate location of invisible creatures. You can also immediately tell if a person is possessed, undead, protected by the Authority, or a spellcaster. The price for this gift is your connection to others. You permanently lose 1d6 Wisdom (as the constant scrutiny of souls warps your mind) or 1d6 Charisma (as you become callous and jaded).

>>52440582

BUT I WANT TO BE THAT PLAYER

IT'S NOT FAIR

>>52440764
So... Wizard Eyes, that also see Religion?
Do the penalties stack with Wizard Eyes?

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>>52440792
OK FINE.

Are you from Bogrest? Roll on this table if you are. If you aren't, I need to post another table.

>>52440582
We all want it,
>and answer some questions about it first.
c >>52425852 (et al.), or rather: A s k U s

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>>52440813
If you somehow manage to get both Wizard Vision and Soul Vision, then yes, double penalties, but I'd probably say you can see invisible creatures fully, the face of God, and the true nature of the world. So... maybe it's worth it?

Rolled 43 (1d50)

>>52440822

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>>52440849
You are an Eel-ling. You are a female Eel-ling. You are the Witch of Bogrest. You are slippery as hell, very lithe, and you have way too many teeth. You also have awful vision close up and need to squint at your books from a distance.

Before you were a witch, what did you do? Roll on this table.

Also, what is your name?

Rolled 9 (1d100)

>>52440912
>Also, what is your name?
Something, something, name field.

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>>52440967
Right, you are a lady witch named Joe. Seems sensible.

Before you were a witch, you were an Astronomer. That kind of makes sense - your up-close vision is shit, so you spent your time looking at the stars. But now you're the local mystic of a village in the middle of a bog.

You do start with a spyglass though. This is very, very valuable. You probably have a house on stilts on a hill where you can watch interlopers from a distance.

Anyway, your stats don't matter that much, so lets see what spells you have. Please roll 2x d6

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Rolled 5, 4 = 9 (2d6)

>>52441016
>your up-close vision is shit,
I thank fucking god I misread that.
Thought I could only see things within 1'.

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Rolled 5, 4, 5 = 14 (3d6)

>>52441100
Control Weather and... #5 isn't listed?
>>52441016
>Anyway, your stats don't matter that much,
Oh, while we're at it...

Rolled 4, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 1, 5, 5, 3, 3, 6, 1, 2, 5 = 52 (15d6)

Meant to be 18d6, here's the other 15.

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>>52441100
Ok, your starting spells are

4. Control Water (Elemental)
5. Eye Laser (General)

>>52441125
Because I apparently can't count to 5.

Anyway:

Control Water
R: 50’ T: a bucket’s worth of water D: concentration
Control a small amount of water within 50’. At one [die]: (a) propel a small boat, (b) carry a small item through the water, (c) allow someone to swim at 2x speed, (d) force someone to swim at half speed, (e) splash something no more than 5' away, (f) dry something that is wet, (g) freeze a small amount of water, (h) cool a hot cup of tea. Each [dice] you invest increases the effects.

Eye Laser
R: 200’ T: creature D: 0
Make an Attack roll with+4 .Target takes [sum] damage and catches on fire, if flammable.

So a good mix of utility and some pretty fantastic damage right off the bat.

Stats are:
Str: 14
Dex: 10
Con: 11
Int: 11 but you get to reroll so you could instead have 12
Wis: 8
And we need 3 more d6 for Cha

Overall, not fantastic stats, but so it goes.

Anyway, that's it for me. Tell me about this Animist Wizard, then.

>>52441259

I was originally the guy who wanted to play the Animist wizard, but I ain't even mad. This eel-ling is pretty cool sounding.

If only we had a picture.

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>>52441317
There's plenty of eels in the sea.

I just wanted to create one that I can a) have in the setting, doing Wizard things (like shooting people with an eye laser fired through her telescope) and that sort of thing.

How do we miyazakify this?

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Occultesquefag here, posted a weird rant about swamp trolls and their tree-root homes.

http://www.occultesque.com/2017/03/trees-trolls.html

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Rolled 5, 6, 3 = 14 (3d6)

>>52441259
12 Wis, 8 Cha, here's the reroll.
>Tell me about this Animist Wizard, then.
Still typing.

>>52441317
>If only we had a picture.
c >>52441016, but with human arms and legs.
Think Trodgor.

>>52441378
Oooh.

Yup, that's good stuff.

Also, did you fiddle with your blog layout? This new one is a little less readable, I'm finding.

>>52441445
Is it? Damn. I was playing around and liked it, but I just realized I had my page zoomed out to like 80%. Is it too cramped?

>>52441359

Ursula?

You also have to consider what animal she can turn into as per her special Animist ability. Since she's already an eel, she'd probably want a different form.

She can't be Miyazaki-ish until she learns Bestow curse and make those magical eel-deals with people.

My original idea for an Animist Wizard was a human/something close Sorcerer dude who turned into a ferret, but I like eel-lady too. Your weird animal people setting is obviously smashing my preconceptions.

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>>52441464
It might just be the serifed font in white on a dark background. That's always hard for me to read.

But yeah, it seems a little too spread out and a little less defined.

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>>52441481
>You also have to consider what animal she can turn into as per her special Animist ability.

Figured I'd leave that up to whoever's writing up her past.

>>52441481
>She can't be Miyazaki-ish until she learns Bestow curse and make those magical eel-deals with people.

We'll get to that. The plan is to level her to Level 4 throughout the next little bit.

>human/something close Sorcerer dude who turned into a ferret,

In this game, I really encourage random character generation. It tends to end up with neat results.

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>>52441317
Transformation is Fly Speed x2, it's a moon rabbit.
Control Water: Joe has a tentative grasp on how spirits work, and honestly can't explain this spell. She's just going through the motions.
Eye Laser: Controlled release of ancient sunlight caught in the eye after being viewed from astronomically distant mirrors.

Joe's first spell (Control Water) was etched into the moon. She found it while mapping waterways.
The cantrips came to her in a dream. One per dream, one month apart, starting one month after she first cast Control Water. She couldn't use any of them until she learned all of them.
Eye Laser came out of a diary she bought at a flee market. Go figure.

>Tell me about this Animist Wizard, then.
Joe Stevensonton, daughter of Steven Ton, is an Eel-folk astronomer.
Her observatory was foreclosed in the aftermath of bad decisions... Mafia denbts are paid off tho.
Joe earnestly fulfills promises she is aware of, but habitually gives noncommittal "yes's" while half-listening.

14 Strength: Read a scientific treatise on weight-lifting as a small child. It left a deep impression on her.
10 Dexterity: Not particularly limber, but she can touch her toes! Lifted as a small child. Too small of a child. It stunted her growth. She's 4'6", most Eel-folk are near 7'.
11 Constitution: Used to be a runner. Years ago. She hasn't found the time has moved on to Bigger and Better things.
14 Intelligence: A quick learner, but one who knows how to coast by. She could have been great... if only she'd put in effort in her youth.
12 Wisdom: A quick learner (see above). Also good at learning from mistakes, but rarely motivated to follow through with corrections. Meditates.
8 Charisma: Very unpersuasive, but people who know her well recognize that she often has the right idea. Also, compulsive about/with authority/power.

>>52441489
I'm gonna keep playing around with it, but I appreciate the feedback. Probably gonna go back to the old layout until I have something better hammered out for good.

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>>52441715
I like it. This is how we meet Joe. Her home is a shack on a small island. She farms, badly, but earns money from credulous villagers by doing the usual "wizardly" things like cursing their neighbors cattle (she can't), dealing with unwanted pregnancies (she has to fly into the city and buy the right herbs from a real practitioner) and creating horoscopes (which she does with a delicious sense of irony, knowing full well the stars don't influence mortal destiny at all).

Her shack stands on stilts made of lashed-together trees. It is precarious, but it gives her a wonderful view of the swamp and lets her blast any unwanted visitors (crab-men, murder logs) with her eye laser.

Something happened that allowed her to reach Level 2. What did she earn, discover, or suffer?

Also, please roll 1d6.

Rolled 2 (1d6)

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>>52441856
2. Telekinetic Shove (General)
R: 50‘ T: creature or object D: 0
An object or creature within range is hurled through the air. Save to negate.A human-sized creature travels 10’ per [dice], and takes 1d6 damage for every 10' travelled. A creature thrown at another creature requires an attack roll to hit, but does damage equal to the damage it suffered.

So as a 2nd level Wizard, Joe learned how to shove people. How did this spell come to nestle in her brain?

>>52437832

White mages don't need tweaking at all. Instead, enforce somatic components. They can't use shields in the games, because donning and doffing shields to cast would be a pain.

The game most similar to AD&D rules in some respects is probably FF5, as the job system winds up being very similar to dual classing.

Red mages remind me of AD&D 2e bladesingers, including that they're significantly less hosed as solo casters, although most the things that being a bladesinger remedies (armored casting, parrying while casting, casting one handed) aren't problems in other D&D editions.

>>52441836
>Something happened that allowed her to reach Level 2. What did she earn, discover, or suffer?
Oh, sorry. I thought that was what the die was for.

She picked a fight by acting haughty to an inured Wanderer who heard of her from the locals and came seeking medicine. Her attitude was soon stifled when he revealed himself to be a powerful (3rd level) Drowned Wizard!
After some intense Spell Flinging Laser Eye (miss) ⇒ Grease (dice not returned) ⇒ Control Water (interrupted by slip) ⇒ Magic Missile (low damage) ⇒ Control Water (die not returned) she shocked the man long enough to push him into the marsh.

>>52441902
>How did this spell come to nestle in her brain?
Wande R'ing-Wizard, Esquire nicked it from nearby ruins the day he was injured. The expedition was related to his injury, if the Legends are to be believed.
Joe dried off the spell the next day (magically, of course) and had plenty of time to study it during her month-long rehabilitation from the fight.
(She was fine after a few days, but took time off to brag to the villagers of the "disguised rakshasa" she banished back to hell!)

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>>52441991
Now thoroughly impressed by their "Resident Witch", the village of Bogrest has come to treat Joe with all the reverence a small village is able to offer. Mostly root vegetables. Joe doesn't get invited to weddings, but if the local priest (Father Elberich) refused to officiate at a funeral (due to suicide, insufficient donations, or other priestly reasons), Joe is occasionally convinced to lead a secret service in the dead of the night. She uses Control Water (with her 2 dice!) to drag the body deep underwater and bury it in the much. Everyone is very impressed.

Soon enough, Joe reaches Level 3. Please roll 1d6.

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>>52442039
Also, if she was a PC, Joe would need 400gp to reach level 3 (or $40,000 of treasure in modern USD, give or take).

That's not enough to buy a fancy townhome, but it is enough to buy a decent wooden cottage with a stone fireplace, and hire a peasant labourer/assistant or two. You can roll for their races and professions on the 2 tables here if you'd like: >>52440822
>>52440912

Rolled 4 (1d6)

>>52442039
Ever frivolous with her magic, Joe has taken the opportunity to roll up a few mishaps.
I see you fixed the spell list, but Mishap #2 is still on the same line as Mishap #1.
Joe has "stolen" the left ear and three right hind-leg claws of a rabbit

>Joe reaches Level 3
As to how: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh0Y2hVe_bw

>>52442071
>and hire a peasant labourer/assistant or two
Too risky, they might realize she's full of crock.
Things don't really /need/ to be tidy, do they?

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>>52442133
Aww fuck, that should have been "roll 1d10". I did it and got a 10, so we're going with that.

10. Minor Curse (General)
R: 100’ T: creature D: permanent
You inflict a minor or major curse on the target. For a minor curse, you must invest 2 [dice], and they are automatically exhausted. For a major curse, you must invest 4 [dice]. You cannot dispel your own curses.

So that's just excellent then. She can inflict any of the minor curses on the table or invent some of her own (hint hint).

>>52442133
Joe wears a hat now. It's a good floppy hat.

>>52442213
Ah, but remember, the miyazakiness...

I want to make a Monk class for Lamentations of the Flame Princess.

Should I try to adapt the NPC class from Qeelong or steal it from another OSR system?

Rolled 36 (1d50)

>>52442371
>I did it and got a 10, so we're going with that.
>Implying you didn't pick the signature spell straight off the list

>You cannot dispel your own curses.
Might be remembering wrong, but I thought the Witch of the Waste could dispel her own curses when she was a younger, more magical witch?
Maybe allow them to undo the major curses they impose until they've gotten a Doom, and the minor curses until they've gotten two Dooms?
...or just leave it as is, I guess. It's plenty thematic already.

>Ah, but remember, the miyazakiness...
Fair enough, she takes a foreigner as her "apprentice."
A speaking of which,
>She can inflict any of the minor curses on the table or invent some of her own
these all seem like a huge chore to remove. Or rather, they take a long time.
Aren't Miyazaki curses mostly fixed in an instant by fixing your mindset?

>>52442463
>or steal it from another OSR system?
Takethe16HDmysticsfromtheMasterRules.

Rolled 21 (1d100)

>>52442493
>Fair enough, she takes a foreigner as her "apprentice."
And their old profession: >>52440912

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>>52442582
Butler.

Huh. How appropriate.

>>52442493
>Implying you didn't pick the signature spell straight off the list

The dice is right here, anon. I rolled out in the open.

> thought the Witch of the Waste could dispel her own curses when she was a younger, more magical witch?

I'd read this as "has miyazakiness" not "exactly the same as the films".

I do like tying this to Dooms, but since you're casting major curses all the time as an Animist, Dooms are inevitable. Besides, that would just encourage you to go nuts blasting people just so you could use a spell you already know. Not the point.

>these all seem like a huge chore to remove. Or rather, they take a long time.

Correct.

Remember, a spell of this calibre is equivalent o fireball. Death by fireball is permanent. At least you /can/ fix the curses. Compare each curse against death and you'll probably be in favour of the curse.

>>52442645
Wasn't suggesting the curses should be easy to remove, just that the cure should match Why you got cursed, not How you got cursed.
Though I suppose that would make things much harder to tabulate.
>Compare each curse against death and you'll probably be in favour of the curse.
Honestly hadn't even considered this. That is a /very/ refreshing line of thought.

One final meal for thought:
When I think Miyazaki Magic I think Yubaba from Spirited Away or I think Nago and the Nightwalker from Princess Mononoke.
I see some of Yubaba in your Animist rules, but mostly I see Howl's Moving Castle.

Miyazaki made a lot of changes to Howl's Moving Castle, but I view it the way I view Tales from Earthsea: A lackluster adaptation of an English book.

Rolled 10, 12, 3, 13, 11, 4 = 53 (6d15)

>>52438678
I've always wanted to be a wizard.

>>52437869
Pretty sure the class change is supposed to be "name level," but you could just add class features at some point/after some objective.