What's so bad about fightan wizards in tabletop?

>>52410952
Because you don't have flux muscles. Also, a cancer wizard can beat Tharizdun, dicuss.

>>52410952
didn't you mean...
Fighting Dreamers!
takami wo mezashite

It breaks convention and "invalidates martials", which mythically could pick up fucking cliffs (Beowulf, Cuchulain, etc) but in tabletop can't do anything more than swing every turn or some grognards flip their shit because of muh realism.

These same conventions left unbroken will cause a different group of grognards to flip their shit because it's all so derivative and tired.

In short, you can't please almost any TTRPG fan and should instead try to make the game you want with whatever classes/classlessness/moves you want because at the end of the day, if your group is having fun, fuck everyone on the internet.

Just play exalted. I haven't tried 3e, and previous editions had 'problems' mechanically, but I don't know of any other game where you can be 'man what swings a sword' in such a ridiculously fantastical manner.

>>52413908
I prefer Godbound, but that's mostly because Exalted is so fiddly rules wise.

>>52410952
Nothing much, but like most things, it's ruined by the fans and the anti-fans bitchfighting incessantly over it.

>>52413951
Godbound repeats a lot of the issues Exalted 2E had with its combat system. Exalted 3E addresses those same issues pretty effectively.

>>52410952
Nothing at all.

If the system you're using is actively inhibiting your ability to have fun with punching and blasting in unison, then it's just time to change the system.

>>52414515
I'll have to check it out then. I just remember being frustrated with early Exalted.

>>52410952
Depends on the system.
It's /tg/, so we're talking D&D... in 4e, they were alright. In 5e, the jury is still out, with so few boosts to damage Smites are fuckhuge (and the sign of a ture fightan mage), and if you want to Wizard you only need 1 useful concentration spell per encounter... IMX they're ok, but we do at least 6 encounters per day - it's a marathon not a sprint, and in the marathon multiclassers just aren't as Wizardy as the Wizards.

>>52410952
>not Fighting Dreamers

Ya blew it

>>52410952
reeeeaaaaal ninjaaas

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131KB, 393x348px

>>52410952
A lot of Western fantasy maintains an arbitrary distinction between magical and non-magical protagonists/classes. This arbitrary distinction, which has more or less gotten the status of dogma, means that people will be inclined to accept someone who can fly and shoot lasers out of his dicks and throw swords when he wears a wizard's robe, but someone with a suit of armor can't swing his sword 20 times in 6 seconds. Naturally this explains why in a lot of systems like most D&D editions martials are utterly gimped.

I personally believe this distinction should disappear altogether in favor of various forms of magic. Classes like paladin or eldritch knights would not be devoid of magic/ki/whatever as much as they master a specialized form of it that assists them in physical combat.
>B-But muh anime
By D&D powerscaling, at around level 20 you're a challenge for low level gods. This means that martials fighting SHOULD look like an episode of Dragon Ball Z (or Dragon Ball Super actually, by that point). If it doesn't look like a bombastic, forced animation anime fight, you're doing something wrong.

I will say that I don't like the way 4e does it though I will admit I have never played it myself, I judge it by what I've seen on paper but I admit that perhaps playing it will change my mind. Not because it makes martials too magicky or whatever, but because it feels like it robs a lot of characters of unique mechanics. It does a good job of balancing... by making almost every class feel the same.

I know people say that giving martials spell-like abilities (not the kind in DnD which is like innately having invisibility, I mean like having stuff they could 'cast' like 'epic strength' which could allow them to do an epic feat of strength a few times or once per combat), but I've never heard why. I mean, they don't have to make you shoot fire out of your ass, but being able to punch somebody hard enough that you send them through a wall seems cool, or gaining immunities/resistances to a bunch of different kinds of damage at later levels.

But I'm no game balancer/developer so maybe I'm just overzealous. All of my 'ideas' which they aren't, they're the barest of concepts, sound hard to balance anyway.

>>52410952

there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not what I look for typically. It'd be like saying there's something wrong with blastercasters because I prefer utility casters.

>>52418061

Honestly a big part of the problem is the 6 second transition. It was a lot easier to buy a fighter swinging his sword twenty times in 2e, because a round was a minute. But now combat has to be fast and brutal, almost absurdly so, and people start balking at the things a fighter can do in that time.

It also makes magic feel "more powerful" without meaningfully making it stronger- you aren't being increased in size for three minutes, but for(in equivalent power) THIRTY minutes. That's fucking magic!

Basically, tl;dr: bring back long rounds and lots of things get better.

>>52423733
I'm actually a fan of shorter rounds and gimping the shit out of mages.

But most people don't enjoy gritty games.

>>52423788

2e is way grittier than anything 3.0 onward could hope for though. The reason combat is slower is because it's assumed you're taking your time and fighting for that one blow you do get, forcing an opening or making one with a well timed parry.

>>52423945
I'm talking even grittier than 2e.

2 second rounds, 12 section action wheels. 4 classes of defense, 1 to 3 blows can kill even the strongest character.

The kind of games where if you're not performing as a team in round one you've already lost.

Rocket launcher duels more or less, where mages either take the role of support or have to actually be protected while they ready their nuke.

>>52424042

I DO like slow mages. If a mage can drop fireball turn one it's kind of boring. Sounds kind of like the Thieves World game, not sure what that was though, I can barely remember it.

>>52424128
Can't say I know which game you're talking about.

>>52424152

I'll try to find it later, I remember wizards had to spend a lot of time setting up spells and injury and disease were a big deal.

>>52410997
Underrated post.