L5R Advice and General

sorry, formatted the link incorrectly, I meant this thread.
>>52364366

>>52409146
Try to play L5R before running it. There are a lot of cultural considerations that don't come to mind naturally for us westerners, and as the GM you're on the spot to constantly remind players of the different world they are playing in.

>>52409146
Unfortunate, since the game got brought out by FFG, and they'll probably re-release it with their own shiny spin on things.

> Read as much as you can. L5R has rules spread across a tonne of books, and even the fluff will offer rules for your players based on social conventions etc.
> Decide what time period you're playing in. The current time period in game is....well its not great for stories at all. Flick it back to a period you like the look of, and even feel free to retcon elements.
>Make sure you impress onto your players that if they murderhobo or lulsorandumb, they will die quickly and horribly, mostly due to honour duels, but could be made to seppuku their characters
>Have fun

>>52409438
Unfortunately, there are no roll20 games in my time zone for me to play in, and I am the one introducing the game to my group.would love to get a chance to play it though. I do have some knowledge of the cultural norms brought up in the game as I have in interest in Japanese history during the sengoku Jidai, so I don't think that that will be to much work for me.

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>>52409146
>I am planning on giving the campaign a sorrowful, mournful feel, as though what is great in the world is slowly fading away

I seriously advise against this. L5R traditionally goes full tryhard mode when it comes to tragic and edgy stuff, and there is no aspect of the game that doesn't reflect this. In L5R, going SAD is a surefire way to trash your game possibly even before it starts. You gotta be, like, a godlike GM with vast experience regarding L5R to pull it through in a satisfying way.

Otherwise, >>52409439 put it well, except the part where murderhobos die. Murderhobos in L5R never die (unless they are not very well optimized), because the combat system sucks dino cock. Fluffy players die first (usually 2 or 3 sessions into the game), then the lulrandumbs, then the special snowflakes, and finally the murderhobos and the minmaxers will remain standing.

My proposal is to run a tweaked dungeon raid game first, get a good feel of the system and the setting, then restart with a new party and try to do your own thing if you still feel that it is a good idea (you most likely won't tho).

Any further advice?

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Fuck yeah l5r. Been doing prep work myself for a campaign, gonna start looking for non-autists soon to run for.

>>52410209
>finally the murderhobos and the minmaxers will remain standing
Only if you white room the combat and don't apply the setting.

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>>52411928

In fact, the setting will keep them alive through their Glory/Status that will come from all the fighting and them dueling through every problem. The minmaxers are worse because they probably has good social thingies too, so they will meta the setting into shit and never look back. As the GM, the best you can do is to raise your own murderhobo/minmaxer NPCs, but that's a good way to utterly derail the adventure, so you will still ruin your own game in the end.

>>52411724
If you are looking for players online, I would love to join to get more familiar with the game and setting for my own future game.

>>52412029
>In fact, the setting will keep them alive through their Glory/Status that will come from all the fighting and them dueling through every problem.
No it won't. John Wick was onto your shit before you even began. While duelling is the legal recourse for settling otherwise unresolvable disputes, the clans don't like samurai who can only use that final resort to resolve their disputes.

>>52412352

Well, "my Clan doesn't like me" is usually little concern for these kind of players and it is extremely hard to turn the situation against them in any meaningful way. Unless you want to go full Antagonistic GM at which point you will just trash your game and/or lose your players.

All things considered, it is easier to deal with murderhobos and minmaxers in a combat-only vacuum and bring them down through in-game attrition. They will even enjoy it if you are lucky. But trying to fuck them over with the setting is kicking shit into the fan because the fluffy player is dead anyways, and nobody else will enjoy you going full spergmode on the party.

>>52412529
My clan doesn't like me is a pretty dis problem. Hell, it's a whole disadvantage that will mechanically keep them from getting better. Just letting them do whatever without consequence is just as bad if not worse than being antagonistic

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>>52412721

Characters doing whatever they want without consequence is a running theme in the setting. In fact, it might be even more prevalent than actually suffering some sort of (relevant) consequence.

But again, the point is that L5R can't handle murderhobos and minmaxers, neither on a mechanical nor on a fluff level. The best way to avoid this whole ordeal is to ban these two types of characters altogether or at least seriously limit optimization.

>>52412894
It really feels like you havent read the fluff. Like you have to get permission to duel in the first place. And if you piss off your lord with that shit too often, he can order you to kill yourself. Remember there are pretty heavy cultural taboos, honor, gods and spirits are very real things, and the GM determines if you're fucking those things up. Going full murder hobo, just as an example, can result in Gaki-Do coming to claim your murderous ass and no priest is gonna protect your ass if the celestial realms have determined you deserve it.

>>52412993

Yeah, this is the "Antagonistic GM" route I was talking about. You can make up shit to screw over the player, but in the end, you are still making shit up to screw over the player no matter how hard you try to meta-justify it. Canon characters got away with lot worse Scott free (or even got randomly rewarded for being bad), after all.

>>52413144
That's not antagonistic, that's cause and effect. Not applying consequences in universe that the lore says will and should apply is not a weakness of the game, it's the GM being weak and incapable of handling the players. Aka you are a shitty GM.

>>52412029
Duelling requires the permission of the lords of both participants.
Someone hoping to duel their way out of everything is going to hit the roadblock of "I don't want my servant to dirty their blade on your asshole's blood." and then they have little recourse.

>>52413144
Canon characters also got completely destroyed for minor lapses in judgement, or even things entirely outside of their own control.

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Not OP, but it's bullshit like this why I ended up taking the outline of the setting and just advancing the timeline 400 years into the future just so I could run a storyline that wasn't pre-approved by John "I Am Exactly the Kind of Stuck-Up Antagonist Neckbeard Fuck That I Look Like" Wick.

And since THAT game has actually been ongoing for three years, clearly I've been doing something right. I can't even claim that I'm the only RPG game in town, because my town is fuckin' filled with nerds.

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>>52413607

The point is that the lore does not says anything like that, and even if it does, it also gives plenty of Get Out of the Prison Free cards. Like, you raise your Gaki, and the player will raise his fuck-high Glory Rank (and probably a similarly high Status he has accustomed from the Glory) and point out that any priest will gladly save his ass (and probably lick it clean too) because of those. And you can't just say "no" because that's how the setting works - the same way your Gaki comes, it leaves the story, and the murderhobo keeps murderhoboing. Just another boring day in Rokugan, really.

And this is only if your murderhobo doesn't decide to just simply kill the Gaki. At which point we are back to the "white room combat" situation.

>>52413766
Using the canon setting as is doesn't require going full Wick.

>>52413780
And yet, everytine everyone argues for it it they go Full Wick, in ADDITION to the main setting being horseshit these days what with all that Spider Clan nonsense and Kali bullshit.

>>52413771
Part of the setting is also that priests actually have to be mindful of the spirit world if they want to actually keep their powers. Indiscriminately banishing all the problems and curses a murderhobo accumulates is a good way for them to lose their powers. And monks can condemn anyone short of the Emperor himself for being shits, which anyone pious will know about and take into consideration.

The entire point of playing in Rokugan is that there are strong social conventions that actually matter. There's ALWAYS someone higher ranked who can fuck you if you fuck them.

>>52413766
Jesus.
Does he seriously wear that hat?

>>52413771
Except people can detect your honor, and a priest can tell if your ass is tainted or otherwise 'claimed' by the realm. Any GM who is letting all of his player's actions occur in a vacuum is a shitty GM

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>>52413828
I've been GMed by him personally twice at Kotei, and yes, he had it with him both times.

>>52413678
>Dueling requires the permission of the lords of both participants.

Only to-the-death duels need permission from your lord. And, of course, even if the lord turns down the challenge it is still a net win to the challenger because the challenged character now has a serious case of shramefur dispray.

>>52413698
>Canon characters also got completely destroyed for minor lapses in judgement

Like? I can remember the dude who invaded Rokugan at the head of a daemon army and became the Fortune of Persistence in return. And his son, who accompanied his daddy, turned everything he touched into shit, and ultimately became Lord Sun (well, at least this didn't last too long).

>>52413805
Applying the setting as it is isn't going full Wick. If you slaughter a village for shits and giggles, there will be consequences that you can't duel your way out of. Legally binding duels only happen when there's a question about whodunit, and it requires the permission of a lord who might just be sick of your shit or may be getting a nice kickback for declining.

Murderhobos have to temper their murderhoboness. Minmaxers who actually follow social conventions can get away with it, but that's self limiting, so it's fine.
Applying consequences for actions is not being ThatGM. It's standard practice.

As for the metaplot characters who get away with things, they're almost universally Clan Champions who have enough political pull that they can just make people look the other way. Even a high ranked PC is below that level of influence, which means they do have to face the consequences of stupid actions.

>>52413865
>Only to-the-death duels need permission from your lord.
Nope. All legally binding duels require permission. The best you can do without permission is a "friendly test of skill" with no long term consequences. And not getting permission is not the same as losing the duel. It means that the duel never happens.

>>52413865
That dude still had one of the largest armies in the country at the end. The Emperor made him a Fortune to get that army to back up his claim to the throne.
His son was in a similar position and got to be the sun because of a fluke.

An average PC is not in that kind of position. They don't command an entire Clan. They don't get to be overlooked for political reasons.

>>52413873
Trust me, I don't encourage murderhobo behavior in my games either.
I just think a lot of the conceits of the setting are exactly that; conceited bits of horseshit written by a man who saw precisely one samurai movie back in the 1980's and forgot most of it anyway.
I could just go with the whole "Rokugan is not Japan", but then why even the fuck would I play in his "special" setting at all if it's just random generic western fantasy dressed up in a bad 90's Mortal Kombat version of Japanese stuff?

If I wanted a bad pastiche of huge factions with ridiculous stereotypes being literally all they are while wearing only their favorite faction colors all the time I could just play Game of Thrones instead.

>>52413865
All duels need permission. Page 49 of the core book.

>Regardless of whether it is to first blood or to the death, a truly honorable duel must be authorized by bigger authority.

>>52413810
>>52413829

On a side note, I'm not even sure if randomly unleashing a Gaki on a murderhobo can be justified. Having an itchy sword-hand is not an emotion, after all.

Now I'm kinda interested on what people can make up against a murderhobo. Killing shit is glorious in Rokugan, people traditionally won't be against this - they will only avoid the character least they will taste his wrath. Like, at the very worst, they will talk shit about him behind his back or something, but for every "He is a murderous brute!" you will hear two "He can also bite an oni in half!" So the overall result should be... I dunno... a few Ranks of Infamy I guess? You can't really get a lot at him because what he is doing is perfectly in line with the general base values of the setting (being a hardcore warrior in a warrior culture and all that).

>>52413921
>An average PC is not in that kind of position.

He will not do that kind of super-serious shit either.

>>52413981
It depends on how itchy their sword hand is. Fighting other samurai won't get you much. Slaughtering peasants who can barely fight back is a good way to get Toshigoku'd or Gaki'd.

Being a hardcore warrior is only seen as a good thing when you clash with other hardcore warriors who follow the same code. That's why the rest of Rokugan doesn't really care that Hida Whoever fought an oni one v one and came out victorious. It wasn't a glorious fight because it wasn't a glorious enemy. In fact, it's an enemy that most Rokugani don't even want to know existed. Fighting a bandit isn't particularly glorious either for the same reason, although that will at least get you a lot of grateful peasants and recognition as a lawbringer, which can be a form of glory.

>>52413981
You need to remember bushido. If you're an honorable samurai you're going to have to take actions through those lens, of which compassion is a virtue. Also, cursed by the realm is a disadvantage where it literally says Gaki are after your ass. They might not just spontaneously appear, but they will come after him. It's a natural result of being a murder hobo where you can literally be cursed by the blood you spill.

>>52413981
Dueling a bunch of people in tests of skill because you want to be the best duelist? Absolutely nothing bad will happen.

Dueling a lot of people to cover up repeated murders? Eventually, someone will catch you in the act, or a high ranking samurai will lie about witnessing it and your lord will be sick of protecting you. Also, Toshigoku has taken people for less, although that won't happen until you die.

Slaughtering peasants? You'll start attracting magistrates and justice driven hunters, Gaki, Toshigoku, maybe even Kansen. If there's any real evidence that it was you (Evidence mostly being witnesses who are samurai) they'll skip straight to execution once they catch up. The gaki might just hang around and eat your filth, or they might attack directly. Slaughter spirits aren't likely to come directly for the character, but the slaughter itself might weaken the barrier between worlds and draw them through, in which case they'll attack everyone they see and then go looking for more. Kansen will try to tempt the person into doing it again and again, and offer maho to help them along. This is a damnation spiral that will attract Jade Magistrates, Inquisitors, Blackwatch, and Witch Hunters, who will all skip straight to execution if they catch you.

>>52414095

None of the canon murderhobos had to deal with any kind of curse, not even the berserker dude who randomly killed his own comrades from time to time, so I would call BS on this.

It seems like Gaki-do only preys on the weak or something, but leaves you alone if you have the balls for some serious action.

>>52414181
I can't remember the names, but there are absolutely cursed murderhobos
There was a Kakita who was literally constantly attacked by gaki. All the time, every day.
There was some Lion who created crop blights just by existing in an area.
One guy attracted every offensive spell cast even remotely near him, and positive spells rolled right off him like a cool breeze.
There are probably many more that I can't think of off the top of my head.

>>52414129

The problem is that dueling a lot for whatever reason (and winning) as well as killing lots of stuff other than peasants will give the character shitton of Glory (really, killing stuff is the best way to rocket boost your Glory), and if Glory is in the game then Status is not far behind. So the murderhobo will passively make himself better in-setting without actually willing it... at which point he will just acquire Hida Kisada heights of being able to get away with everything.

By standard Rokugani logic, the player needs to elevate murderhoboing to a whole new level to get the shorter end of the stick. But yeah, if that happens then your game is already at its death-throes.

>>52414278
>The problem is that dueling a lot for whatever reason (and winning)
Only legal duels. Being known for illegal duels is just asking for serious trouble.

>and if Glory is in the game then Status is not far behind
Nope. There's no correlation. The Emperor is Glory 5 or so, Status 10. Great Heroes can be Glory 10, Status 2 or 3. Most positions are hereditary. Even if they're based on merit, being famous isn't the merit they're based on.

The murderhobo *might* passively make himself more famous if he murderhobos in productive ways. He won't be getting promotions through it.

>>52414278
Except it has to be glorious to earn glory. Winning duels will get glory yes, but only if it's a real duel you have a chance to lose. And that's assuming you win the duel; you could lose and possibly even die.

Killing peasants brings no glory. It in fact will cost you glory and thus status even informally, and most likely will bring down infamy was well as the wrath of a lord who is pissed you're breaking his tools.

>Anon says you cannot deal with murder hobos unless you go John Wick on them
>Other anon says you can deal with murder hobos if you go John Wick on them
>They now have an argument about this

Never change /l5rg/

>>52414389
Applying consequences that are spelled out in the setting is not going Wick.
Going Wick would be to turn their Advantages against them, or have them killed for random things that they didn't do because they didn't specifically go out of their way to declare that they didn't do them to the right person.

>>52414385
>Killing peasants brings no glory.

Original quote from >>52414278:
>killing lots of stuff other than peasants will give the character shitton of Glory

Now the question is: if the character kills a squadron of enemy samurai and attains 4 Ranks of Glory (~1 point for each samurai killed), then how much peasants he can kill before losing even 1 point?

What happens to widowers? Do they remarry?

>>52414470
You don't lose Glory, you gain Infamy. They're two separate scales.

>>52414485
Depends if they already have kids or not. If they do have kids, then usually no. Marriage is entirely to get the next generation out, and inheritance law is designed to be straightforward.
If there's a compelling political or trade reason to get married again, then they can, but without one of those, they generally won't.

>>52414470
Don't know the number desu, it's up to the GM. But going on the rules for family dishonor, it's a rank if you kill enough to piss off a lord or be considered a blasphemous act.

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Any advice on creating custom schools?

I'm prepping to run a Minor Clan game. Our last L5R game had the PCs trapped in the Spirit Realms after failing at the end of the Second City campaign. They adventured through each of the spirit realms hunting down escaped rakshasa who were causing havoc in each realm. Eventually they reached Tengoku and stopped the last rakshasa from assassinating the Empress and fucking up heaven. They were lauded as heroes and granted permission to create their own minor clan (the Beetle Clan).

The founders were a Yoritomo Courtier who had a subplot of trying to build his own sake commerce empire and a dragon Void Shugenja.

I'm trying to wrap my head around making a new courtier school inspired by the Yoritomo, without copy/pasting the already existing school. Focused on stuff like intimidation, commerce, obtaining glory, and seeing through disguises/lies.

>>52414541
Can you have affairs, and is it considered dishonorable if it's found out if neither are married.

>>52414570
You can have affairs (Most samurai do), and it is dishonorable if it's found out no matter what your marital status is. Chances are good that it won't be found out unless you're really, really obvious, because it's a romanticized situation.
Casually letting it slip that you are in an affair can actually benefit you in court, but namedropping is where it counts as being "found out".

>>52414441
>Applying consequences that are spelled out in the setting is not going Wick

Sorry to say but it is one of the trademark Wick moves

>>52414562
Well, minor clan schools are usually weaker than Great Clan schools, but if it's a custom one that you want to actually focus on, ignore that. Look at the bonuses available among the existing rank 1 courtier Techniques and make something similar for their rank 1. Then do the same for 2, 3, ect. Commerce not affecting Honor or Glory is something they should have at rank 1.

>>52414642
No, that's a standard move for all GMs who don't let themselves get pushed around by players. Actions have consequences. Wick gives you consequences for things that aren't Actions or for things that shouldn't have consequences.

>>52414700
>Actions have consequences.

Normally this is not the GM picking on a player because he does not like what the player is doing, compromising the whole party with his crazy ideas like throwing a japanese ghost vampire at them. This is typical Wickism.

>>52414832
A player going full murder hobo when that doesn't fit the setting and being punished for it isn't bullying.

If you think it is you're a shit gm or a troll

>>52414832
>because he does not like what the player is doing
Wow, that's one hell of a strawman you've got there.

Rokugan is an established setting with established social mores and supernatural effects. Those supernatural effects include attracting spirits and getting cursed for doing certain things.

>>52414900
So basically nothing can ever be different outside of these things no matter what and anything outside of these things is incorrect and bad, with the few exceptions not withstanding?
I'm new to the setting and want clarification, not the anon you'd arguing with.

>>52414959
Your strawman isn't any better, supposedly new anon.
But no, someone acting like a murderhobo and just indiscriminately slaughtering people on flimsy or no pretense is not going to get away with it in this setting.

>>52414959
What a flimsy trolling attempt.
Try harder next time.

Those GMs planning new games, in what timezones are you in? Should I get my hopes up?

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>>52414869
>A player going full murder hobo when that doesn't fit the setting and being punished for it isn't bullying.

It is if your first idea for "punishment" is to throw a fucking Gaki at the party. What can possibly go wrong, after all... right?

If you have a murderhobo at hand then give him murderhobo stuff to do. It isn't that hard, Rokugan likes murderhobos. Just don't insert some overblown antagonistic approach into your game, that's something Wick would do.

>>52414900
>Rokugan is an established setting with established social mores and supernatural effects.

It is also a setting where these things change with every take on them, and you can make everything and its exact opposite true depending on your point of view. And even if you have something consistent, chances are high that people in-setting make a sport out of bypassing and/or violating that rule.

>>52415040
Still with the strawmen. You should start a farm.

And if you want to talk about another take on the setting, go right ahead. We're talking about the default setting as it is written.

>>52414982
>But no, someone acting like a murderhobo and just indiscriminately slaughtering people on flimsy or no pretense is not going to get away with it in this setting.

What? No, you idiot.
I don't HAVE any murderhobo players in my group; why the fuck do you even keep them in yours that you're so worried about it? My players wanted a fucking samurai game and L5R was the most notable so I went on here to ask about it because I never played the CCG and know fuck-all about it even as I order the core book off of Amazon. All the other samurai games I saw looked like horseshit.
I'm trying to figure out what is okay to houserule and what isn't okay and how flexible the setting is you knee-jerk reactionary dickwad.
>>52414995
Jesus, is EVERYONE who plays L5R such an unwelcoming asshole? No wonder the goddamn CCG fell apart.
Apologies if it fell apart due to internal company bullshit like Shadowrun did.

>>52414959
>So basically nothing can ever be different outside of these things no matter what and anything outside of these things is incorrect and bad, with the few exceptions not withstanding?

Technically, this is the case, but the exceptions are many, and nobody takes the rules seriously. So it is, like, it -should- be the case, but it isn't.

And this is why the whole murderhobo argument stupid.

>>52415084
>Apologies if it fell apart due to internal company bullshit like Shadowrun did.

Thank god, no. Nothing in the gaming industry is quite as bad as the bullshit that happened at Catalyst Game Labs.

>>52415096
Again; I don't have any murderhobos in my group. What I DO have is five guys who are really into classic samurai movies and love stuff like Usagi Yojimbo.

>>52415084
> don't HAVE any murderhobo players in my group; why the fuck do you even keep them in yours that you're so worried about it?
I don't have any either. We're talking about what happens to murderhobos, not giving advice about what to do with yours specifically.

>Jesus, is EVERYONE who plays L5R such an unwelcoming asshole?
You literally just wrote a response that is speaking in absolutes and clearly fishing for responses just to make arguments against. Even this right here is speaking in absolutes and fishing for responses. If you really, actually weren't trying to troll, you're doing a bad job of it.

>>52415018
GMT +2, you?

>>52415040
>implying that's the first punishment.
No, socially he's going to get fucked up first. But gaki is a thing that is a possible example of what could happen.

>>52415084
Sorry anon if you're getting caught up in this. L5R is actually a really fun setting.

>>52415124
I mean, all I HEAR on this thread are absolutes and all this primer stuff I read online suggests not much setting flexibility or grey areas.

So explain it to me; where is the flexibility and grey areas of the setting? Are there any? If there are some, how flexible is it? Is there any room for any stories beyond what the CCG appears to be about, namely Ravinca-like interfaction warfare? Is there a way for Clans of individual samurai to work together or is everything REALLY as tightly enforced as all this arguing implies?

And finally, is this thread going to be helpful or should I just fuck off and tell my friends we're not playing a samurai drama game anytime soon?

With all this talk of peasant abuse, what happens if you romance or alternatively rape a heimin? Obviously either way a child eould be a ronin, but on what scale of a social fuck up is it if you're caught. If you can murder peasants if they insult you, so is rape considered a crime too since it doesn't break your lord's tools?

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>>52415191
Same.

>>52415105
Tell me more what happend to Catalyst Game Labs?

>>52415123
>What I DO have is five guys who are really into classic samurai movies and love stuff like Usagi Yojimbo.

Then L5R as-is is probably not your game. Luckily, overhauling the fluff is easy. Just get stuck in and cut off what you don't like. 90% of the fluff is expendable in the greater scheme of things.

The setting itself is super flexible because you can cut shit and fill the holes up with your own stuff with impunity. After a while, the fluff will just write itself if you put some thought into it.

Gmt-5 here, was considering running a game of emerald magistrates over voice

>>52415233
I mean....in actual feudal Japan terms? It's technically not illegal, as they are only "sort of" people. That said, people still knew some of the difference between laws of the land and laws of reality as the entire caste system had no religious element to it at all in real life, so most people would think it kind of an extremely fucked up thing to do even if it's not technically illegal.
That said if you abuse someone ELSE'S peasants then you're gonna cause trouble because that's not cool in two fronts.

>>52415123
Wouldn't be a bad fit then. You can play ronin but they'll get their shit kicked around socially. Samurai out to kill bandits and out to hold up bushido though works great. Just got to remember east vs west values.

>>52415322
Rokugan terms, since we're on the topic. Mainly kind of interested in how samurai and heimin can interact. I know hero of the people is an advantage for example but never seen it used.

>>52415279
Long story.
Short version; company CEO embezzled close to a million dollars to build his house, and when people found out they discovered that they couldn't so him because that would lock up the money he owns in a legal case which given the overhead costs of the company and the expense of printing today meant that the entire company would go under during the court proceedings and everyone would loose their jobs, so the CEO was allowed to both keep the money AND his position rather face any real penalty for what he did.

>>52415287
>>52415333
I'm getting conflicting messages here.
One is that it's terrible for it without modification, and one where it isn't.

So which is it?
And I won't have much problem with East vs Western values at all for a number of reasons. The

>>52415406
>And I won't have much problem with East vs Western values at all for a number of reasons.

Ooooh....uuuh...I'm neither of those posters, but are you a person with actual knowledge of that kinda stuff or something? Because the setting plays....very loosely with that sort of stuff. To the point of sort of getting it halfway wrong a lot of the time.

The game was kinda invented pre-internet and was based more off of what people THOUGHT everything was like, and by people I mostly mean RPG gamer nerds who played Oriental Adventures in the 1980's....

>>52415215
>where is the flexibility and grey areas of the setting?
Mostly where nobody and nothing can see you, in moderation. Spirits aren't actually all seeing. There are loopholes in the law, but they cut both ways. Being higher ranked than everyone else in the room also helps a lot.
>Are there any?
Yes.
>If there are some, how flexible is it?
Usually it's not very. Get caught doing something bad, and you're fucked. If you're higher ranking than everyone else, you're less fucked until they go above your head.
>Is there any room for any stories beyond what the CCG appears to be about, namely Ravinca-like interfaction warfare?
Absolutely yes. PCs in the RPG aren't even remotely close to the level where they could influence events like that, and most eras you could play in don't have massive overarching wars that overshadow literally everything else.

> Is there a way for Clans of individual samurai to work together or is everything REALLY as tightly enforced as all this arguing implies?
Working together is easy. Most of the time. Tensions can run very high, and all of the clans have reasons to fight each other. RPG characters are not on the level of daimyo or Champions, so it's more down to their individual situations and what's going on immediately around them.

>>52415360
Having an affair with a heimin might actually be safer than having an affair with another samurai, because your word trumps their word 100% of the time, although it's also harder to discretely rub it in everyone else's face. Male samurai who are important enough can have concubines, who can be peasant women. Officially, this is just to make more heirs, but many of them are just girlfriends that can now openly have a relationship.

Raping a peasant... Well, the peasant basically has no legal recourse and a samurai's word trumps their word 100% of the time. Another samurai might take up their cause if they believe the story, but chances are that they'll have to fabricate something else or catch you for a crime against a samurai if they want to *legally* get you for something. Raping a merchant's daughter or other well off or well respected peasant might get you a low grade assassination attempt.

>>52415471
>Usually it's not very. Get caught doing something bad, and you're fucked. If you're higher ranking than everyone else, you're less fucked until they go above your head.

Thanks, I know how a generic aristocratic heirarchy works already.
I meant in terms of setting fluff; is everything about the setting REALLY rigidly defined and has lots of "this thing means THIS thing and ONLY this thing" and you're basically having to do everything by not just THE book but THEIR book and ONLY their book?

I'm curious if I can tell my players about being members of these animal Clans about them and there's enough leeway to make variances from the CCG-like archetypes I'm seeing here.

>>52415465
Yeah, but I expected some differences what with the demons and vaguely Warhammer-like Mordor Chaos Taint thing the bad guys have going in from what I've read.

>>52415632
Nah. There are plenty of variances. The CCG is not a great representation of the setting if you're trying to get into the RPG.
There are stereotypes, and the mechanics of Schools and Techniques encourage following the normal line in what you specialize in, but how you actually act is not that rigid. A Hida bushi doesn't have to be loud, rude, and uncouth, but mechanically, he's better off using a tetsubo and wearing heavy armor, because his Techniques are built for that.

>>52415688
Okay, and Schools are basically D&D character classes to a certain degree?
Like a "this is what abilities and gear you have" thing?

>>52415731
Pretty much.
There are three large archetypes for schools, Bushi, Courtier, and Shugenja, that share basic mechanics with others in their archetype. There are also some rarer ones, like Ninja, or Artisan, but those are more like subtypes.

A Character's school dictates starting equipment and basic skills, along with their starting Technique, which is usually some kind of flat bonus to certain rolls, or enables special actions, or removes certain penalties.

Charaters start with a significant amount of XP to customize on top of the set bonuses they get from their Family and School.

>>52415406

Anon from >>52415287 here. I was referring to what >>52415465 said. The dude who invented the setting had... strange ideas and it shows pretty darn dominantly in every aspect of the game.

There is a reason why "Rokugan Your Way!" became the official guideline for 4th edition.

>>52415876
Can these oddities still be removed and still keep the samurai drama and yokai and stuff without just abandoning the game?

>>52415993
>yokai
This poster >>52415465 here.
There's....uh...no actual yokai in Rokugan. At least not like you're probably thinking of.

>>52415233
If you acknowledge the child as your own, then it's a member of your family. If you refuse to acknowledge it, then it isn't even a samurai. And unless you're caught in the act, your word against the word of a peasant means they rape never happened.

It would be shameful to romance a peasant on purpose, but ''drunken mistakes'' are a thing that happen and no one cares too much.

>>52415993

Of course! In fact, removing/reshaping them will improve your game a lot.

>>52416020
>then it isn't even a samurai
But it might be a ronin, depending on what else happens. A lot of ronin are bastards who couldn't be fully acknowledged. Rape babies probably need extra outside help, but it's personally dishonorable for a lot of samurai to leave something like that alone if they know the truth.

>>52416035
Okedoke.

>>52416124
No, ronin are categorically samurai. If a peasant says ''this samurai is the father of my child'' and he says ''I don't know her and she's lying'', then clearly the father was some other peasant and so is the kid. It's possible for the samurai or his family to arrange something for the kid without acknowledging it directly, like having it adopted by members of a vassal family, and a lit of those adopted bastards might eventually become ronin for whatever reason, but children don't just become samural without intervention, and if you don't intervene yourself, no one else can.

>>52416518
No, "my father wouldn't acknowledge me, but gave me a daisho and arranged for someone to teach me basic skills" is one of the standard ronin backgrounds in Rokugan. Replace father with uncle or aunt in the case of a rape baby and it's perfectly acceptable.

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>>52416518

>>52412721
>>52412529
While not versed in system (though I would love to try), would a feasible answer be to have the clans decide that they are perfect to loan the Crab during a somewhat heavier tide of oni and beasts than normal? Gives them a place to murderhobo, gives them reasons to not try looting their kills, and gives them people who could potentially be related to or used as role models for them to be dragged back a bit.

>>52416720
That does happen. A lot of extras sent to the wall are done so out of good faith (Like the Daidoji), as part of agreements of some sort, or to prove themselves against Rokugan's actual foes.
Sending troublemakers is perfectly reasonable, especially if they act in ways that would endear them to the Crab.

>>52415301
Was?

Also, GMs, where are you going to post your ads?

How do you feel about a single clan game vs different players having different clans?

Current idea is to put the PC's in charge of a tiny garrison with the idea of policing the attached trade town, letting their superiors know about any problems, and potentially recruiting ronin to join.

What kind of things live in, and could come out of spirit portals from Toshingoku?

>>52417651

Slaughter Spirits (the human spirits inhabiting the realm) and Tsuno. IIRC only these two "live" there.

>>52415731
>>52415805
One thing to remember is that due to skills and advantages your School is not the end all, be all of your character.

For example I once played in a game where four players brought Bayushi Bushi to the table. All were pretty diffferent characters and filled different niches in the group. Bayushi Bushi #1 was a kind of a Courtier hybrid, he took several social advantages and served as the party's face. Bayushi Bushi #2 was a stealthy ninja type who also focused on poisons. Bayushi Bushi #3 was focused on unconventional tactics, he used chain weapons and grappling to take enemies alive. Bayushi Bushi #4 was defensively focused and served as the group's shugenja's yojimbo and was a reasonably strong duelist.

>>52412529
>Well, "my Clan doesn't like me" is usually little concern for these kind of players and it is extremely hard to turn the situation against them in any meaningful way.
If the GM can stomach the action of saying it's the end of the character's meaningful adventuring days, it can be of great concern when the character is assigned as the emperor's peacock guardian, or just sent to guard a noname mud farming village, for the rest of their days.

>>52413144
It's not "making shit up" when the rpg and the fiction establish particular lines of setting responses to PCs being shitheel murderhobos without remorse.

>Canon characters got away with lot worse Scott free
Canon characters that get away with actions are frequently daimyo or other high status action-protected entities; the PCs are not, unless the GM gives them that opportunity. Players seem to forget that.

>>52413698
>Canon characters also got completely destroyed for minor lapses in judgement
They also get destroyed for others' lapses in judgement whenever someone higher up wants to keep other samurai in line, ie; Kuon for Kisada's failures.

>>52413953
>If I wanted a bad pastiche of huge factions with ridiculous stereotypes being literally all they are while wearing only their favorite faction colors all the time
Clearly you're not the main L5R demographic, as those pastiches and stereotypes are popular, while the colours are not required unless you're posing for an artist / on military duty. It's just art flanderisation.

>>52414562
http://www.kazenoshiro.com/2013/01/28/l5r-4th-edition-designer-diaries/

#10, #9, #8 for designing courtiers, shugenja, and bushi respectively. Might not be the most help ever, but it's something.

>>52415465
>The game was kinda invented pre-internet and was based more off of what people THOUGHT everything was like, and by people I mostly mean RPG gamer nerds who played Oriental Adventures in the 1980's....
I think people forget that's the intended audience. They needed the setting to be as accessible as possible, and extreme historical accuracy was jettisoned in favour of making names like Toturi and Hoturi, favouring the katana over everything else, smooshing Japanese time periods into one general mishmash, etc.

>>52419177
It's as much Japan as dnd is Europe

>>52419177
Things can change.
In fact, they WILL change and you can either keep the fuck up or get left behind.

>>52418473, >>52419177
So basically a Japanese-themed setting where I can't actually do Japanese-style stories. That was kinda what I wanted to know.

I'll keep looking for a different game then.

>>52420986
>So basically a Japanese-themed setting where I can't actually do Japanese-style stories.
How did you reach that conclusion from the posts above?

Hey folks,

Is there a pdf trove active somewhere? I'm missing a copy of the Book of Water and it's going to drive me nuts.

>>52420986
>I'll keep looking for a different game then.
Well, that's a relief. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

>>52421083
Well, this guy >>52419177 says it's meant for the Oriental Adventures crowd, and that's not really very good for jidaigeki or even chanbara stories at all.
It's no harm done, I can just find another game. I already paid for the core book so I already supported the product creator some.
Or wait, didn't I hear that the creator of this book doesn't make this game anymore? Who does then?

>>52418584
>http://www.kazenoshiro.com/2013/01/28/l5r-4th-edition-designer-diaries/

Thanks for the reply anon, those were helpful.

>>52421156
Maybe not be a shithead to new players? This is why games die dude.

>>52421262
New players are great. That was not one.

>>52421289
Should have just fucking tell him about "Rokugan Your Way", since 4e and AEG regurgitated that shit even five pages or every post online they could get.
Gets him what he wants and gets people interested in an RPG that might not even GET a 5e if FFG decides it's not worth putting the effort into making.

>>52421315
What's Rokugan Your Way?

>>52421355
basically company license to just gut the setting and make your own versions of it there were like two full books of "alternate" settings or historical periods that conflict or ignore the canon material like a nutty "space samurai" one and a steampunk samurai one

>>52421315
After 3e, the Jourei Bengoshi, and some very serious sperging out by the player base over rules and RAW, AEG had good reason to say "Fuck! It's your damn table!" and impress on everyone that Rokugan Your Way is (and always has been) a thing.

>>52421107

Yeah, it's in the listing in the PDF Share thread. I just got all the 4e books yesterday from it.
>>52344567

>>52421432
>Jourei Bengoshi
Those were the guys that led the 3ER charge right? They were a bunch of assholes. There was one fucker, Darrin I think was his name, who got so arrogant about being a rules guy that they had to ban him for shitting all over playerbase.

>>52414047
> Slaughtering peasants who can barely fight back is a good way to get Toshigoku'd or Gaki'd.

False. Eta are soulless niggers.

However, if you slaughter your lord's peasants your lord will get pissed at you and if you slaughter another lord's peasants it is seriously impolite.

>>52416720
>>52416777
They could also be sent to pacify the colonies.

>>52421934
>False. Eta are soulless niggers.
Maybe that's why he said "peasants" and not "eta" you fuck.

Though even with eta there's going to be a limit. Because someone will not like it when you kill every designated septic pit cleaner.

>L5R 4E, core only
>Tuesdays, gmt-5, in the afternoon
>voice on discord or roll 20
>993 Imperial date, Emerald Magistrates

Interest?

I'm going through character creation for the first time.
>Is it generally better to invest the starting exp in a certain area, such as Attributes, Skills, or Advantages or am I looking for a balance?
>Are there any Skills that are really vital to pick up at the start?
>How important are Advantages?
>How useful are Kata? Should I pick one up early?
>Should I invest any points in upgrading my Skills immediately or wait for the points that trickle in?

>>52422169
Depends a lot on what you want to do.

Traits and Rings are your best investment because they generate insight and bump your kept dice from rolls, though you want to get some points in Etiquette, Investigation, and either Kenjutsu, Kyujutsu, or both to start.

>>52422033
And even eta aren't soulless. They at least have the potential to move up the kharmic ladder in future lifetimes. They are as part of the Celestial Order as samurai are.

>>52422169
Attributes are strongest. If the GM doesn't allow post chargen advantage purchases a strong case can be made for going strong on them as well.

In general for at minimum Bushi...

Agility and Reflexes 3 at start. Hitting and not getting hit are huge. Reflexes 3 can wait if you are a Hida or other Heavy Armor type as the extra armor TN from the armor makes up for the Reflexes. In general if I don't go Reflexes it means I got half the Earth ring from Family or School and went Earth 3 for a big wounds buff. Strength is generally the weakest attribute and thus almost always can wait.

Skills

Kenjutsu 3 - Extra rolled die for damage and gives you a better chance for the splodies.

Kyujutsu 1, Defense 1 - Rounding out your skills as a bushi is good.

Etiquette 1, Courtier 1 - Basic Social skills. Again having explodies is good.

Investigation 1, Athletics 1 - Key doing stuff skills.

Artistic Skill 1 - Whatever art you like, I played a Scorpion who sent all his messages folded in elaborate origami notes. Shit is good fluff.

Advantages

Luck is a steal at 3 points/rank. I almost always buy 1 rank.

The Phantom Skill Rank advantages vary in strength. Sage and Crafty are very good. Crab Hands and Sensation not so much. Prodigy is overpriced shit.

Kata are secondary and can wait.

After Chargen, I generally hold 1/2 to 2/3 my points for attributes/big purchases and the rest for plugging skill gaps.

>>52422169
>invest in what fits your character idea.
>etiquette is probably your most universally valuable skill, since it covers for when you accidentally fuck up socially
>very, but take what is key to your character idea
>they're a luxury
>depends on the skill in question, but generally take a few more skills than just what your school gives you.

>>52422169
Attributes are better than skills, but balance is pretty good idea.
Ideally, you want to be rolling at least 6k3 in your "main" ability, whether that's a weapon skill or courtier.

Etiquette is pretty important as far as skills.

Advantages are pretty important. Some of them are great.

Kata aren't great early on, so don't worry too much. If you have extra XP after everything else, then start looking at them.

At least one skill should be 3, but at this point, they're mostly going to be 1 or 2.

>>52422291
>>52422651
>>52422701
>>52422721

What I'm considering is a Crane Bushi from the Kakita Family and School.
With the trait advancements I'm thinking of, this puts me at:
Earth 2
Air 3
Water 2
Fire 3 (Agility 4)
Void 2

I want to focus on Kenjutsu and the skills I have available without further investment are Etiquette, Iaijutsu, Kenjutsu, Kyujutsu, Sincerity, Tea Ceremony, and I'd pick up Investigation as my Bugei/High skill from my school.

I'm not sure about Dis/Advantages yet. I'm thinking of taking Blissful Betrothal and True Love to offset one another, and possibly Karmic Ties as well. I haven't been able to have a character that had a family in a very long time and reading the Crab-Husbando Greentext thread put it in my head. I want him to be a less than arrogent Crane that holds Compassion in a higher regard.

>>52422788
You want probably void 3 over agility 4, it's really important for dueling.

>>52422788
Don't go super one dimensional with your advantages and disadvantages. It will get old being a character that revolves around an NPC.

>>52422085
Fuck yes I'm down for playing L5R

>>52421262
No one would have a problem with new players if they weren't shitheads themselves. That dude was being a douche and looking for a reason to trash a game he already decided he didn't like. If people don't like the style of a game that's fine, but christ people. There is no reason to be a dick.

>>52413953
The charm for me is "Fantasy Not!Japan Game of Thrones".

>>52418385
>Canon characters that get away with actions are frequently daimyo or other high status action-protected entities

Dude, Emperors are not getting away with shit and end up in all kinds of bad places because they were assholes in life. People in Rokugan suffer no consequences from their bad actions because the setting's established responses are utter bullshit and are based on simple plot favoritism rather than an actual action->consequence setup.

And that's why it is so hard to punish characters: it will never feel natural, because the setting is screwed up in this regard, but everyone will see it as you bullying a player because you don't like what he likes.

>>52409146
>I love the setting and the game seems incredibly fun and interesting, I was inspired by javascript:quote('52364366'); and am planning on running a game for my [INSERTGATHERING] soon.

Beep boop desu senpai

>>52427394
Use examples, because your sweeping statements are utter BS, and I'm not getting paid to hose out your shit.
I'm not talking about the emperor, because they get away with all the shit in the here-and-now.
What happens to a samurai after death is irrelevant compared to what happens in Rokugani society.

>>52427771

The best example is the Great Famine run-up:
>Hantei XX, the Emperor who crushed the People's Legion and restored the Celestial Order got sent to the Realm of Slaughter
>His best buddy, Akodo Kenburo, who did 99% of the killing, lived the best life ever despite being ronin trash
>Asahine, the peasant chick who took a dump on the Celestial Order with his revolution, almost won the game, and the worst she got out of it was some fucking Scorpion ninja blowing her place up in the very end

Y'know, one would think that at least the third character gets -something- because she is openly subverting everything Tengoku is standing for and she is a literal nobody, but nope, she is super-cool right until the very end.

>>52427959
You realise they asked for fanbase submissions to fill IH & IH2, right? It's the last two books I'd use for examples, especially when there's so many years of official fiction to pick from.

>>52428720

Asahine is actually the perfect example for a That Guy PC.

An example from official fiction is Matsu Agetoki, who drank from a cup that totally cursed everyone with bad luck, and then went on a winning spree that included killing the Otaku Daimyo for no apparent reason and trying to turn her daughter into a murderhobo. And all the guy had was good Battle and Horsemanship Skills.

>>52409146
Lo5R 5e when?

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>>52429630

I don't want FFG Special Snowflake Dice(tm) in my L5R game, so I hope either
>Too late so that FFG's hard-on for their special snowflake dice system is over
or
>Too early to revamp the system, so they have to continue using R&K

>>52429710
>FFG Special Snowflake Dice(tm)
Elaborate.

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>>52429869

Pic related. FFG has a system for these odd-looking dice they advertise as a "narrative system" but it is in fact a thinly disguised binary system with weird side-rules that can ruin any story and throw your game into utter chaos.

>>52429910
Which systems use those? Out of all FFG games I played only their 40k ones, and there was nothing like it in there.

>>52430070

The Star Wars RPGs, and IIRC Warhammer Fantasy too uses something similar.

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How viable is unarmed combat in the system? If I want to make a character capable of breaking people in two with their BEAR HANDS, how difficult would it be to become effective with that and how screwed am I against armed opponents?

>>52432087
It's pretty viable. Grappling is powerful, and punching can be good as long as you pick one of the right Schools.

A generic samurai with no special Techniques or Advantages won't be particularly effective at punching dudes out, even if they're skilled. Grappling can still work even in that case, though.

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>>52432087
Go Togashi, take Hands of Stone, Large, Ki-Rin tattoo, and plow points into Juijitsu.

You end up punching for 3k4 + Strength at Insight Rank 2. The only set cost is 18 exp after Chargen (going from Jiujitsu 4 to 7). Everything else is as you wish.

At Chargen you can get all the prereqs, bump your Agility 3 (so you can actually hit stuff) and still have 8 points to spend before dipping into disadvantages.

Have a sample of Togashi Head-Punch that also breathes fire. He has a built in story of chasing down a rival monk that has gone rogue.

>>52433288
Interesting, thanks for the tip.

>GM/Player
GM
>System Preferred
L5R 4e
>Times Available (with timezone!)
GMT-5, Tuesdays pretty much all day after 12
>Method of Play (Skype, IRC, roll20, etc)
roll20 or discord, voice
>Additional Notes
This is an interest check, testing the waters to see who and how many people would be available.

>>52433916
>GM/Player
Player
>System Preferred
L5R 4e
>Times Available (with timezone!)
GMT-4, I can be free after 6pm EST any weekday
>Method of Play (Skype, IRC, roll20, etc)
No preference
>Additional Notes
I'm entirely new to the game so I'm not sure if you want to deal with that or not. No offense taken if you'd rather have experienced players.

>>52434220
>>52433916
Whoops, forgot email

>>52433477
With no investment in Strength, at rank 2 you'd rolling 5k4 damage. Which is about what a Hida with a big ass warhammer would be doing. Pretty impressive for a bare-handed dude.

You'll be rolling 10k3 to hit once you get your damage engine rolling, with multiple to re-rolls available (re-rolling 1s due to emphasis and the Ki-Rin Tat giving you a free re-roll every turn) you are going to hit every damn time and raising becomes quite a bit less risky.

And at the same time you are built to grapple, which can be instant win if your target doesn't build for it. Most do not.

Togashi Monks are scary. Their only weakness is no armor, which can be lessened by throwing points at Reflexes. And some of the fuckers breath fire, run across the Empire in a day, never eat, and are immune to fear.

Post about the notable waifus and husbandos your characters have had.

>>52434370
I've posted mine a couple of times over the years so I'll be told I'm just throwing out copypasta.

Mine was the one Scorpion Emerald Emerald Magistrate that caught the taint fighting an Oni. he went on Jade Tea in semi-secret with Kuni keeping an eye on him. Then to allay suspicions married his Witch Hunter minder, who initially had nothing but contempt for him. She at first would fuck up his shit when he'd let little fish go to catch bigger ones, but came around when he gave her free reign to take down blood speakers. She decided she loved him, found out about the monk punch most of the taint out of someone kiho and quested to find a lost nemuranai that could remove the taint, a tanto that could cut it out of a person, but leaves horrible scars. To reduce the scarring she researched crazy acupuncture and moxibustion techniques to force the taint to a single location. Her efforts succeeded and pushed to the taint to the ring finger of his left hand. One finger amputation later, my character was free of the taint. After that they eventually had three kids, a son and two daughters. The oldest son became a bushi, the elder daughter became a courtier, and the younger daughter took after her mother and became a Witch Hunter.

>>52434370
I was playing a Monkey clan bushi who took Dangerous Beauty, Soul of Honor, and a shit ton of ranks in Calligraphy and Glory. He was a famous writer whose works were regarded as masterpieces do to his lucky rolls and general fame, and wrote a shit ton of pillow books.

He ended stalked by no less than three different samurai due to never buying off the Secret Love disadvantage despite kind of resolving it multiple time. In the end he ended up begging his parents to set him up with a quiet bayushi girl he'd known since they were children, and who I'm 95% sure set up those stalkers just to arrange the whole thing.

>>52434370

There is one currently, in our full-sohei campaign. My guy is a "clay" character (focus on Earth/Water/Void with some Fire and zero Air) speccing for unarmed combat, and he is not only pure RAPE because of his kiho arsenal but a legit scary guy because he has Disturbing Countenance.

So a few sessions ago a few NPCs (fellow sohei) joined us, among them was this nun who is effectively the complete opposite of my character (a retired artisan with a lot more confidence than actual prowess), and they are coming together nicely along the "we are make up for the other" line: he fights for her in combat, and she lives for him outside of it. The biggest problem isn't even the fact that their love can never be fulfilled (he is a monk and she is a nun, after all), but that I'm fairly sure that she doesn't really know what she is into with him. My character is a walking Mook Horror Show whose favorite fighting method is to use Breaking Blow on people and can tank a cannon shot in the face no problem. If she ever finds out about this inhumane side of him... I dunno what happens with them, but it can't end well.

HAHA THIS THREAD NOW BELONGS TO THE UNICORN CLAN

OTHER CLANS CAN SUCK MY HORSE

>>52436242
As expected from Shinjo. Get out of here, filthy gaijin, you are not welcome here.

>>52436828
NO U(NICORN)

>>52432087
>How viable is unarmed combat in the system?
Unarmed itself is exceptionally viable from a handful of schools, but the real star is grappling, by which someone with good strength can pretzel an opponent with no comeback unless they're equally prepared for grappling.

>>52433288
I prefer Togashi/Kikage Zumi, myself. You start with Reflexes 4, grapple with Reflexes, and with the storm tattoo you eventually get free knockdown vs anything with two legs / knockdown & stun for 2 raises.

(that said, my favourite isn't combat related; just Hoshi, Ocean tattoo, and Barefoot Brethren for the Energiser Bunny)

>>52435387
Soul of Honor was older editions version of Paragon advantage, right?

>>52437776
Unfortunately you can't path from Tsurai Zumi to Barefoot Brethren as Tsurai Zumi is not a Fortunist order.

Would giving the Lion an actually substantial amount of cavalry rather then having them rely purely on tribal-challenge style infantry massively change the setting?
I'm still keeping the Unicorn as cavalry kings and giving them both superior and more numerous cavalry, I'm just making them a bit more militarily viable since our game revolves very heavily around military action and planning tactics.

>>52438009
That's your interpretation, and you're welcome to keep it.

>>52438086
Every clan does have and use cavalry, especially after the Unicorn. They just don't have a lot of elite cavalry, which would be represented by Techniques. Several clans, including the Lion, do have cavalry Techniques.

>>52437893
It basically the reverse of lechery making you hard as fuck to tempt. It's in 4e under some core book advantage

>>52438107
It really isn't a matter of interpretation. It was answered in one of the FAQs as being a Shintao Order. Considering their preoccupation with Enlightenment and the general attitudes of the Togashi that spawned them it is hard to take the position that they are even remotely Fortunist, like say the Order of Osano-wo or Thousand Fortunes.

>>52438334
Yeah, but a lot of stuff like Art of War says it's light cavalry or scouting cavalry, basically a really cheap and limited cavalry force rather then an actual heavy cavalry charge type thing.
In my scenario only the Unicorn would have "elite" heavy cavalry, but the other clans would have at least SOME heavy cavalry, just not elite groups of them.

>>52438361
The Tsurui Zumi are treated as a Brotherhood school, and there's at least one mention somewhere relating to worship of the fortunes. That's enough for me to work it out.

Even if you don't agree, it's not a game-breaking path or combination, L5R is heavily RYW, and the forum answers are just how that specific writer would run it, not how everyone else is beholden to run it. They have even disagreed & contradicted each other before.

>>52438504
It's mostly light cavalry, but they have some heavy too. And the Crab actually have a heavy cavalry alt path.

>>52438086
Yeah all clans have calvary

What skill would cover writing like plays or pillow books?

>>52441208
Artisan: Playwright and Artisan: Writing. Actually producing a pillow book would be Caligraphy and Artisan: Painting (if it has pictures). Similarly performing a play would require Acting.

>>52436242
>Allowing some random scum from another clan to do anything with your precious horse

Found the Spider infiltrator. Sudoku yourself with a cactus, please.

>>52444488
>spider infiltrator
You give him too much credit, he's a Kolat amateur.

>>52434331
>Togashi Monks are scary. Their only weakness is no armor, which can be lessened by throwing points at Reflexes. And some of the fuckers breath fire, run across the Empire in a day, never eat, and are immune to fear.
>>52437776
>but the real star is grappling, by which someone with good strength can pretzel an opponent with no comeback unless they're equally prepared for grappling.


This brings the question - why doesn't everybody play unarmed fighters/grapplers if they are that good?
Plus, again, how do they fare against armed opponents? Is there some sort of handicap or are they about equal to an armed character when it comes to fighting another armed character?

>>52446811
With a lot of investment, they're roughly equal to an armed opponent (And better than an opponent armed with a mechanically crappy weapon)

The downside to grappling is that you lose your ability to defend yourself against anyone who isn't the person you're directly grappling if there are multiple enemies.

The other downside is that you have to actually touch your opponent, which has minor social hangups, because flesh is considered spiritually unclean to touch, which means you have to get cleansed as soon as possible after grabbing someone so... comprehensively who you aren't consensually fucking or face stigma. And that can sometimes manifest as very real spiritual problems, in that staying spiritually unclean for too long can cause the otherwise minor soul-dirt to start interfering with you. And touching something that is Tainted could very well spread the Taint to you, which is nearly irreversible, actually has mechanics associated with it, and leads to damnation if you let it progress too much.

My question is, why do none of you have games going on?

>>52446929
Why, are you hosting?

>>52446811
Well, take a look at that punchy monk build suggested up there.
At chargen, that character has spent 32 XP to reach that point.
A Hida using a Tetsubo spends 9 XP to get Heavy Weapons 4, 12 XP to get Agility 3, and he's pretty much equivalent, for a significantly smaller investment.
Most bushi schools either focus directly on katanas or let you freely choose to focus on katanas, which are objectively one of the best weapons in the game.

>>52447000
Most characters I've seen don't even bother getting their weapon skill to 4 at chargen, which saves that much more XP to spread around.

>>52446904
>The other downside is that you have to actually touch your opponent, which has minor social hangups, because flesh is considered spiritually unclean to touch, which means you have to get cleansed as soon as possible after grabbing someone so... comprehensively who you aren't consensually fucking or face stigma.
You have to get spiritually cleansed after cutting someone in half anyway. That's just part of combat. It's nothing to do with touching someone (that's a social stigma, not a spiritual one), and everything to do with the fact everyone bleeds and combat is messy.

i need some god tier, like as strong as a god, enemies to have scare the world of rokugan

>>52447505
Proper Oni Lords are pretty much gods in the Shadowlands. Although they're generally content to just sit around and let their spawn do all the work. The proper, full sized Elemental Terrors are also really, really strong.
The Yodotai are capable of crushing all resistance, up to and including all forms of magic, under their very, very competent military.
If Inari somehow gets pissed, the Frost Dragon comes along and kills your entire food harvest for the next year or so and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Starving to death will put the fear of (a very specific) god into 'em.

>>52446929

Planned our next session for friday, had to delay it until saturday because the new Ghost in the Shell movie gave us PTSD.

>>52447505

Just roll up an Insight Rank 8+ Shugenja.

>>52447736
do you remember that guy with the insight 12 party?

>>52446929
I'm new and would rather get some experience playing a bit before I would try to run a game.
And I've already got a 5e game running anyways

>>52446929
Mine is on Saturday. My PCs have a murder to solve.

>>52447756

With the penguin party member? How can I possibly forget that? I even told him that his game was fucked beyond salvation.

>>52447594
>they're generally content to just sit around and let their spawn do all the work
Usually because the Crab have put in the hard yards to keep them from returning to Ningen-do, rather than actual laziness.

>>52447842
someone should have screen capped everything he said, gold for the l5r vault.

i actually feel bad for the guy. what would you even throw at an insight 12 party

>>52448578
Here, the archive still has it:
>>>52259001

>>52448578
They weren't even playing L5R anymore. It was distorted beyond any recognition.

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>>52448578
>>52448735
>>52448854

I've made a screencap, just for you guys.

>>52448921
Forgot the part where they grew rice in shadowlands.

How to treat characters who buy high status/ glory at char gen?

>>52449522
In 4e, by not allowing multiple purchases of the same advantage. There's a fucking reason Fame, Social Position, and Virtuous aren't Ranked Advantages anymore. It fixes the problem.

A Status 2.0, Glory 2.0 character is hardly a problem in a group of Status 1.0, Glory 1.0 characters. He's just put in charge until he fucks it up.

Before this gets archived down the line. has anyone here build city states with patron deities?

>>52450681
Wrong thread again, my mistake. Sorry.

Hey L5R, what's the hardest character to hit at base char creation?
I'm thinking Hida Bushi with max reflexes but correct me if I'm wrong.

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>>52453742

Shinjo Utaku Battle Maiden dual-wielding a katana and a war fan. That's Armor TN 37 right out of the gate, with the Rank 1 Technique negating the attack penalty from the Heavy Armor.

>>52453921
Ah yes, I completely forgot about the ridiculousness of those mongols and their riding armor. Thanks for reminding me

>>52454151
There's also the actual Shinjo Bushi school, which plays the long game of being able to effectively fight while in Full Defense at rank 4. Stance dance with a safety net and without the really dumb escalation that happens when everyone else starts dropping their turns to counter the stance dance.

>>52449282
Technically, Shadowlands rice is some of the best stuff - provided you like oni eggs and getting super fucked over. I just don't think that's what they meant ...

>>52453742
>Iron armor (Tetsu-dou) is considered heavy armor for the purposes of mechanical effects that specify armor type

Tetsu-dou +13 ATN (reduction 8)
Kaiu Armour advantage +3 ATN (+5 reduction)

Start there, if you're looking at wearing the heaviest armour.

How long have you ever had a game go on for IC?

>>52454947
>>52449282
>>52448921
>>52448854
>>52448735


IT IS I, the man with the penguin party!! that game is running again tomorrow.

i was thinking about green texting the whole thing at some point when it crashes.

im so happy people remember it!

>>52456037
Technically, it went just over a year and a half, but there was a big timeskip. Actual play was a few IC months.

>>52456037
My first game ran from a year before the Scorpion Coup until the end of the War Against the Spirits. One of the players in that game went on to work for AEG and got all the PCs names on cards. None of those cards did very little in the Canon story. The Unicorn PC's namesake got the most and did get an Exp version. My PC's namesake a Scorpion was the only one in the group that died. The two Cranes had absolutely nothing done with with them. The Dragon had a bit about a few battles he fought in but that was it.

I also got the shittiest art. Seriously, fuck Genzoman.

Why arent you running a game anonymous?

>>52457507
I am. We play on Saturdays. I even have an opening. It is an IRL group and unless you live in my area you are SOL.

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Why is the Lion lying on top of the Dragon?

Why is the Crab groping the Unicorn's thighs?

Who's the bland lady dressed in green in the back?

Where are the Scorpion's hands?

Why do none of them look Asian?

What is the Spider even wearing on her legs?

Is the Phoenix's back okay?

Why does the Crane look a little autistic?

>>52457805
Insecurity manifesting as a need to assert dominance.

Friendly clans make friendly girls.

Mantis.

The lewdest places they could be given the angles.

Because you're blind a little. Also, Rokugan is not Japan.

One of her cousins with a strong mutation.

Probably.

Inbreeding.

>>52457805
Which clans have the best waifus?

Which clans have the best geishas/whores?

Which clan would you arrange to marry your first born son?

>>52458066
Crane, Crab, Scorpion.

Lion, Mantis, Scorpion.

Unicorn, Dragon, Scorpion.

>>52458115
Why Dragon? You gain little politically from the Dragon unless you border them. And the Dragon are notoriously poor.

Your other two are pretty spot on, Unicorn will get you rich and Scorpion will get you powerful.

>>52458115
>mantis
>not the best whores
How could you put the Lion on that list son?

>>52458315
Matsu fuck like wildcats.

>>52458262
>You gain little politically from the Dragon unless you border them.
Topic was waifus, not politically advantageous betrothals.
>And the Dragon are notoriously poor.
Sort of, but not really. They have the least available farmland, so they don't have the rice yield to back their koku, but they do have significant amounts of gold for trade.

>>52458864
No, the topic was "Which clan would you arrange to marry your first born son?"

So politics comes into play 1000%.

>>52458909
Ok, that one is on me. Well, you might choose Dragon because they actually marry for love more often than most other clans, and you don't think of your son as a piece in your political games.

Politics -1000%

>>52409146
The setting is cool, but the canon storylines are shit. Don't use them, or even better specifically retcon all of the horrible horrible horrible canon.

>>52421934
Ha. This guy has never played any of the first edition modules, specifically Void in the Heavens.

>>52422651
Prodigy is overpriced shit when you first make your character. When you are sitting at rank 5, its fucking ridiculously powerful. If you've increased even just 2 of your school skills to 5 the advantage has already more than paid for itself. The higher your school skills go, the more ridiculous your value. If you have all 7s in your 7 school skills, the value of prodigy is 56 points. Hardly shit since you only invested 12 points.

>>52459453
At which point you don't really need the extra die...

what are some dangerous places in the shadowlands? i need dangerous or epic locations.

inb4 all of the shadowlands is dangerous

How would I go about converting 2nd edition pre-written games to 4th edition?

I'm a new DM for the setting, playing with a group that has never played before, and none of the 4th ed pre-writtens are doing it for me.

I am liking the look of Night of a Thousand Screams though, but it is 2nd edition.

I've heard that conversion is easy, but googling seems to just get me forum posts where people say it is easy but providing no details on what I'd actually have to do.

>>52459453
>Prodigy is overpriced shit when you first make your character
It's cheaper than buying each of your skills to 2. The main reason not to get it is that you either don't like more than one of your school skills, or the GM is enforcing the optional rule that limits xp spending on advantages during chargen.

>>52462005
Also, it stacks with Ancestor: Bayushi or Ikoma Lion's Shadow.

>>52456037

We once did a Four Seasons Campaign, so our party had one adventure in Spring (shortly after their gempukku), Summer (at the height of their career), Autumn (when they started to grow old), and Winter (when their death was approaching). I think it encompassed exactly a 100 years IC.

>>52462078
Considering the standard age of retirement in Rokugan is 40 (giving most people about twenty six years as a samurai, then another decade or two as a monk), that's crazy long.

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>>52462189
>Considering the standard age of retirement in Rokugan is 40

Maybe in your Rokugan.

>>52462275
In the standard Rokugan, yes.

If you're off playing in some RYW Rokugan where retirement happens long after that or samurai are actually flying purple people eaters ... well, I don't care. Good luck with your campaign(s).

>>52462333
>standard Rokugan

I dunno if such thing even exists. Disregarding the whole "Rokugan Your Way!" thing and the CCG "proxy universe" I doubt you can find two gaming groups in the whole world who play the exact same interpretation of the setting.

Hell, if you think about it, even 4th edition Rokugan is just a donut steel version of the 1st edition Rokugan.

>>52462611
>WRITTEN BY: Shawn Carman, Robert Hobart, Jim Pinto, & Brian Yoon
When you have the guy leading the official story writing team also writing the rpg, it's a safe bet that's 'standard' Rokugan.

So; if it's written the current edition and not using some alt history timeline (ie; Imperial Histories 1 or 2), that's standard Rokugan for the purposes of discussion.

>I doubt you can find two gaming groups in the whole world who play the exact same interpretation of the setting.
I doubt most of them vary on current setting minutia to such a degree that they change the standard retirement age. Even if 100% of the games you've played in or heard of do, I've never heard of it, so we're back at square 1 with anecdotes.

>When a samurai reaches the age of forty, it is traditional for him or her to retire from active service to the clan.
There it is.

>>52462730
>When you have the guy leading the official story writing team also writing the rpg, it's a safe bet that's 'standard' Rokugan.

You mean, like, the rpg telling me several times that gaijin in Rokugan are a big no-no then have a story about a gaijin joining the Scorpion Clan of all people? Or the Phoenix being one of the biggest anti-gaijin dudes but two books later they have a whole village dedicated for gaijin loving?

>>52462996
The prevailing stances of Rokugan and the reality of what people are willing to do being two different things isn't a new concept, except (it seems) to you.

Even the laws of Rokugan offer leeway on foreigners who can get their travel papers signed by an emerald magistrate.

>>52463390
>The prevailing stances of Rokugan and the reality of what people are willing to do being two different things isn't a new concept

That's a nice interpretation from you, but according to the "standard Rokugan" fluff this isn't the case at all concerning the gaijin issue.

>>52463886
Yeah, ok. How about you get onto something other than "nuh uh!" to keep this thread bumping against the front page.
>Emerald Magistrates may also authorize travel papers for any individual who requires valid papers for longer than one year but less than five years, and for individuals not native to the Empire of Rokugan

>>52464240
>How about you get onto something other than "nuh uh!" to keep this thread bumping against the front page.

I dunno, do -you- have something?

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>>52464699
Another (You) from (You), and already two quotes that don't support your argument.

Why can't we all just get along?

>>52464914
Clan Rivalry. At least that´s my bet.

>>52464914
I have noticed that there is this guy who frequents /l5rg/ and just loves to antagonize people at every step and take the high ground when his victims give up on him. He might be The Wick himself because I remember a thread where an anon aksed him whether he was John Wick and he suddenly shut up and disappeared for good.
I can also remember an old thread (maybe when 7th sea 2nd edition came out?) where an anon confirmed that John Wick is aware of /tg/ and visits it frequently.

>>52465450
Would Wick be salty because his game is no longer his and is improved from that?

>>52466683
Dead Sea tier salty.

>>52468462
>Kakita Toshimoko

So what was this guy's deal anyway? He couldn't get his Fox Clan waifu, so he decided to train a whole generation of questionable-quality heroes?

>>52459826
http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Amaterasu%27s_Furnace

>>52459687
not needing free dice? I dunno what game you're playing, but around my Rokugan, you ALWAYS want free dice.

I hope FFG cans the entire lore of the game and goes back to Clan War and starts the fuck over. AEG ran this shit into the dirt.

How to go max husbando?

>>52470753
Bayushi Bushi. A true husbando is capable of defending their spouses and Scorpions ironically make the best husbands and wives through their unique perspective of Duty.

>>52470587
>12 exp at Char Gen
>free

That is a pretty big opportunity cost as it is likely the only advantage he has, especially if the GM is limiting Advantages like they recommend. And honestly, I'd rather have 3 ranks of Luck +3 exp than Prodigy.

Also we're talking about a guy has a 7 in all seven of his school skills. The fucker is likely swimming in exp like Scrooge McDuck in his money bin if he is even remotely optimizing.

>>52470643
Honestly I liked the Four Winds period the best. Everyone rallied to someone and Daigotsu hadn't transformed into Marygoat-Sue. If they reset to there I'd be a happy camper.

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>>52470753

Take Breaking Blow and pulverize everyone who tries to hurt your waifu. Then tell her that even if you can't be together in this lifetime, your love transcends lives, and in the end, you will spend an eternity in each other's embrace when your kharma gets fulfilled.

Extra husbando points if you tell this to her while your last victim's brain matter is still dripping from your fists.

>>52470925
If a character has a 1 in all of their school skills, it costs 14 (Or 13, if they have six skills and one starts at 2 already) xp to get all of their skills to 2. But even if you buy ranks in some of them, it's always cheaper to buy prodigy than it is to buy every skill up by one from wherever they happen to be at the moment.

>>52471697
Goes double if you have either of >>52462013.

So as someone only passively familiar with L5R who's never played the rpg I'm reading through the book right now and something amuses me.

All of the bushi classes have a pretty similar template going on with their stuff. This includes the Daigotsu bushi. However the difference is that every single other bushi school describes the skill of their samurai while all of the Daigotsu features describe inhuman attributes or taint or otherwise corrupted shit.

This to me makes Daigotsu bushi sound like a bunch of shitty ass samurai/chumps with katanas and inhuman powers. Every other samurai pulls similar shit off with training while the Daigotsu just are tainted as fuck.

I mean I'm probably missing/misinterpreting something somewhere but I just found that amusing.

>>52474548
That's pretty much exactly it. They're made from ronin who had to cobble together their skills without any actual technique or training, and were bound into a clan based on their taint.

>>52474548
>Every other samurai pulls similar shit off with training while the Daigotsu just are tainted as fuck.
Not exactly. The tainted path leads to some fairly crazy stuff - doubly so when you don't care about becoming Lost, and triple that when you get to the Maho-Bujun advanced school, with a cherry on top called Touch Of The Spirit Realms: Jigoku.

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Which minor clan is the best clan and why is it the Tortise clan?

>>52470974
I'd take it. Four Winds was pretty good. The conclusion with fucking Toturi number 3 walking off into the Shadowlands like a dipshit was pretty dumb. But the set up was fine.I hate the Volturnum shit though, which is why I backed it up past Four Winds.

>>52470925
Yeah, I was inflating the hypothetical character to 7s in every school skill to emphasize the benefits, not to be practical. No one ought to have 7s in all school skills. It is not practical, fluffy, or optimized.

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>>52474548
>However the difference is that every single other bushi school describes the skill of their samurai while all of the Daigotsu features describe inhuman attributes or taint or otherwise corrupted shit.

Then read the Schools again. The Yoritomo Bushi and the Moto Bushi suffer from the same thematic bleakness.Honorable mention goes to the Matsu Berserker for being all over the place despite its supposed focus.

>>52478677
Yknow ... I've looked at them, and just don't get what you think is bleak or unfocused.

>>52409146
Rulewise, what are the special features of each clan?

>>52480185
Stat bonuses, schools (read: classes) available.