/swg/ Star Wars General

>>52402995
Seems fine to me. If the force was so awesome, it didn't stop the jedi from being corrupt/wiped out (depending on what you believe) and it didn't stop the empire from taking over.

>>52402995

Eh, 90% of people in the galaxy will never see a force user force using in person.
So it's pretty understandable.

Presuming they arent obnoxiously obtuse about it when someone in front of them is quite definitely using the force.

Not like that fucker in my last D&D game I ran who wanted her character to be an athiest who doesnt think gods exist. In Forgotten Realms. A year after the end of the Time of Troubles.

>>52402995
>putting star wars in the title
Whelp, we're fucked

>>52403042
Hmmm, good point. Thanks for the help!

>>52403074
Why? Just because the thread will attract more attention?

>>52403145

But anon, our own conversations are retarded enough, we dont need filthy OUTSIDERS joining in.

>>52403145
It tends to draw disproportionately high numbers of shitposters who also troll /co/ and /tv/ It was really bad when TFA came out, though the recent rash of Imperial vs Rebel reductivist arguments are probably similar

>>52403145
Because it's measurably more likely to cause shitposters to show up

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hurr durr revan is snoke ahsoka is mai waifu tcw is not canon :^)

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>>52403212
TFA was dissapointing is so many ways that I was prepared for the consequential shitposting even if very little of it was constructive.

It's harder to wrap my head around people who start throwing IRL political namecalling around in defense of a fictional institution. Particularly when the three big things you first see them do in any media is storm a ship and send its entire crew off for torture and execution for stealing government documents, literally incinerate Luke's family for having unknowingly taken in the droids carrying those documents, and blowing up AN ENTIRE FUCKING PLANET because a handful of its political leaders are implicit in the theft of those documents. Nevermind the actual Death Star itself.

I honestly couldn't enjoy the style of the Empire as much as I do if they weren't so monochrome and occasionally cartoonish in their villainy.

hey whats some good media with imperials as the main characters. I love exploring the government and inner workings of the Empire (old and new) and there Fascist/ Prussian General Staff Aesthetic

>>52403547

Rogue Squadron comics have a set from the pov of Soontir Fel and his squadron, and the ones following have some stuff from the pov of Isard and the people running the Empire.

>>52403547
>>52403572
also thoughts on running a rp game from the imperials point of view

>>52403547
Tarkin by James Luceno is excellent

>>52403547
Hogan's Hero's

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>>52403547
>>52403593
Have you seen the imperial handbook? Full of info for this.

>>52403593

Running a game from the Empire's point of view will run into a few issues just in terms of theme.

Presumably, you have players who arent going to go "The empire's evil, lets defect' or that'll derail your game pretty quick.

Beyond that, there's the problem of being part of the dominant military force in the galaxy - there's no underdog story, and you're not struggling to try and get by.
As such, the thing to do would probably be to play as a group of ISB agents - that way youre operating behind enemy lines and undercover, so the players arent able to just waltz through easily.

On the flip side, you could go with them just being basic TIE pilots or Stormtroopers with no real ability to affect anything, but that might get dull fast.
Oh, plus, if you're gonna run them as TIE pilots, you'll definitely want to houserule the game's starfighter combat or theyre straight up fucked.

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>>52403646
The Imperial Sourcebook is full of gold information

Obligatory "Play TIE Fighter" comment.

>>52403651
oh yeah Only War: Star Wars edition is pretty obvious

I also like the idea of regular Imperial Army Troopers doin there thang with limited support.

Or maybe a high power level game of politics between the byzantine branches of the imperial beurocracy military, or straight up post empire warlordism

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>>52403547
TIE Fighter, the Baron Fel comic, Lords of the Sith. Technically also the Thrawn trilogy if you count the primary antagonist as a main character.

Who else is looking forward to Spirit of Rebellion coming out?

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>>52403651
There are ways to make "soldiers in an awesomely powerful army" interesting.

>>52403688
>>52403646
know were i can download these?

All I want to do is be best bros in the rebellion and fuck shit up with the squad.

>>52403735

True enough, but from an Imperial point of view, in such a repressive and controlling system it'd be hard for the average Stormtrooper to be particularly individual.

Outside special forces, ofc.

>>52403651
>Beyond that, there's the problem of being part of the dominant military force in the galaxy - there's no underdog story
You could always have a Black Hawk Down scenario where the Imps are outnumbered And cut off on an individual planet.

>>52403772
The First Order maybe, but Stormtroopers are guys. In fluff, incredibly badass guys who just happened to be against pure plot armor, but still joes.

>>52403651
You're not thinking creatively enough if you can't think of an underdog story within the Imperial military.

The local moff could be corrupt, and the PCs are just loyal Imperial soldiers or stormtroopers who stumbled upon evidence. The whole planet is against them, but they want to do the right thing and make the Empire stronger by eliminating such criminals.

Or you could have a rivalry between two commanders, with your CO on the losing end.

Or the PCs are crewing an Imperial transport that is forced to land on a heavily Rebel-aligned world.

>>52403800

That's true, and i mean they can be individual people and have individual skills, but expressing themselves via their appearance is a no go, and expressing their opinions to their superior officer is a fast track to a bad time.

Unless of course, they get lucky with their commanding officer.

>>52403811
Obivously you can create an underdog story in the military, but my point was that it doesnt have one built in - you have to create it.

The Rebels, the criminals in Edge and the Jedi in FaD are all wanted by the authorities and already stuck on the wrong side of the law - they're up against it by default.

I guess I didnt word my original post well, that's on me.

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>>52403772
Stormtroopers kind of are already the special forces. Theres a whole army of regular grunts behind them, along with navy logistics and others.

You could do pic related with a force ghost?

>>52403845
sauce for that keksimus maximus

>>52403878
Comic called "Haunted tank"
It's pretty much all jokes about race and racism.

>>52403946
perfect for 4chan

>>52403837
Yeah, bt that's why you have squadmates. I'd say take a page from Republic Commando and take advantage of you actually being badass super troopers. Be the Imperial Heroes who take out the rebel terrorists, or just shoot the shit with bros.

>>52403878
>>52403946
>"The Haunted Tank returned in 2008 as a five-issue mini-series from Vertigo, written by Frank Marraffino, with art by Henry Flint.[20][21] The new series is set during Operation Iraqi Freedom, and features the General becoming the guardian of an M1 Abrams, commanded by an African-American Sergeant Stuart, who (at least initially) does not take kindly to the ghost's outmoded attitudes and language concerning his race. The mini-series serves as an acerbic, no-holds barred satire about an entire gamut of racism both casual and institutionalized."
Nice

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>>52403772
Then don't make it about stormtroopers. Make it about a bunch of Imperial Army grunts. The standards are laxer and they don't have to worry nearly as much about publicity, so you can have the cast be as goofy as you need them to be.

>Stormtroopers are special forces and not the main infantry

nice meme

>>52404190
Are you serious? Didn't think /swg/ had casuals or this level.

>>52404190
>http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_Corps/
>The Stormtrooper Corps was an independent military branch that operated alongside the Imperial Army and Navy of the Galactic Empire. It was the smallest of the primary three branches of the military.

>>52404210
You don't see anything other than Stormtroopers as the lowest of the low, even on crap backwater worlds. Rogue One not having them pretty much killed the idea in a visual medium.

>>52404237
I think you're trying to throw a legends link out but there is a basic infantry in canon.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army
>The Imperial Army had its own infantry, distinct from the stormtroopers. These troopers were made up of a mixture of conscripts and enlistees and used to garrison planets. They were generally less committed to remaining loyal to the Empire than the stormtroopers.

But they sound like rebel defectors waiting to happen and we'll never see them in anything meaningful.

>>52404311
>you're trying to throw a legends link
whoops, ditch the slash
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_Corps

>>52404348
The quote you gave came from the legends page.

>>52404382
oops

Star Wars Western game set on the on the Outer Rim protecting locals from various scum and the encroaching Hutts

Good Idea Y/N?

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Thoughts on jaba? Seems like hes limited in the ships you can field him in at the moment.

>>52404589
>Hutts
Good idea up until the hutts get involved, because they're too well known and way, way too big. Think smaller, watch that clone wars episode with hondo robbing farmers. Maybe the bosses bosses boss could be a hutt, but certainly not leading the grunts on the ground

>>52403482
>punishing its crew for stealing vital documents that put the lives of thousands of your personnel at risk
>bad

>a lone group incinerating a belligerent family that may or may not have had ties to a rebellion
>a mistake that somehow means whole empire = bad

>planet with massive military base, numerous rebel dissidents, and a leadership hierarchy full of rebel dissidents blown up AFTER rebels and the planet steal said documents, endanger thousands of your personnel and people, attack your forces, lie to you directly, and refuse to cooperate

>building a space station built for enforcing law and order and expanding naval might with a superweapon capable of destroying a planet
>military expansion is bad

I'm not going to say the Empire was perfect, but not a single thing you listed makes them evil in any capacity. It seems all people can ever do when calling the Empire evil is to bring up a superweapon, the destruction of a planet in a very morally ambiguous situation and fascism, which isn't even an evil ideology.

>>52403651
I've played in multiple Imperial campaigns with little issue. To circumvent the problem of military dominance and struggle I've usually seen DMs place us in positions as commandos or stuck on far-flung planets without much Imperial presence. To help the players avoid the "let's defect" mentality show in fairness the bad shit the Rebellion does. Have them blow up a governor's palace when he refuses to help them, execute supposed Imperial spies in a settlements, and general attacks of terror that the Rebellion did in fact commit in canon (as far as EU goes at least).

>>52403772
Stormtroopers are very much humans, just given rigorous "be loyal" training. Stormtroopers who retire are no different in personality from civilians, at least no different than any veteran soldier would be returning to civil life.

>>52403800
It's been said before and I'll say it again. In lore, Stormtroopers mop up Rebel troopers like a scythe cuts down wheat.

>>52404624
I think he's about as boring and safe a card as they could have possibly gone for. Salvage Crane was more interesting.

>>52404625
Oh definitely not on the ground. I mean the Hutt Cartels expanding into new frontiers.

>>52404641
I have no doubt Storm Troopers wreck shit. But that doesn't mean there wouldn't be a reason for Storm Troopers to go do their special forces shit, or otherwise dealing with the kind of terrorist/insurgent stuff that makes actually fighting them a god damn nightmare.

>>52404641
>Fascism
>Not an evil ideology

We have this fucking argument every goddamn thread and Star Wars is honestly the worst material to use for deep musings, even terrifyingly wrong ones. The Empire has a pretty cool aesthetic and I'm all for stormies, TIEs and Star Destroyers but "Empire dindu nuffin" is silly

>>52404624

Debatable, but yeah, usual wording of "You" will indicate no. He's not worth 5 points and two slots to double SLAM or double EMP on a YV, but presumably will be FAQed to clarify that his effect applied to all tokens regardless of which "you" it is.

>>52404685
I don't think anyone's ever claimed the Empire hasn't done wrong things, but something being fascist does not make it evil, and to say it's pure evil because of its fascistic ideas implemented by its government is even sillier than claiming the Empire's flawless and perfect.

>>52404641
>planet with a massive military base
so Alderaan being a planet of pacifists, with Leia begging them not to fire because Alderaan can not defend itself just slid by you? Or are you dismissing literally the only information we have about Alderaan because it doesn't fit your narrative?

>>52404734
Limiting individual freedom is evil

>>52404771
Except that's the exact opposite of what happened. The EU makes it clear that Alderaan has a powerful military, a militantly Alliance-supporting government, many Alliance-supporting citizens, and that it's not only provided aid to the Alliance on numerous occasions, but has lied and hidden this from the Empire, and Leia herself lied as a means to plead Tarkin to not attack, all of this after Alderaan proved almost directly responsible for the theft of the Death Star plans and the trouble it caused for the Empire.

>>52404801
Not always, and fascism doesn't equal stripping individual freedom. Rather, it places importance of the state and its wellbeing over the wellbeing of individuals, as fascism is built on the belief that the state's prosperity and the prosperity of its inhabitants are intrinsically connected, and that the state prospering starts a reciprocating, symbiotic relationship. The state prospers because the people prosper because the state prospers.

>>52404734
>Fascism
>Encourages conflict on basis of supporting ultra-nationalist viewpoints and jingoism to focus peoples' attention in external problems
>Inevitable suppression of dissidents or minorities as either real or manufactured fifth columns to further unite people against an "enemy"
>Lack of oversight makes low level corruption easily flourish and allows for petty infighting to remove real or perceived threats
>Lack of strong ability for peaceful transference of power leads to inevitable purges, coups or even full on civil wars during desperate power grabs
>Not evil

K

>>52404841
>Fascism
>encourages strong defense and aggression to outside threats in order to secure one's existence while also supporting nationalism and the peoples' support in the nation and their national identity, keeping them unafraid to defend themselves
>suppressing dissidents who would otherwise want to see the state collapse and decline while uniting people against common enemies, minorities having nothing to do with fascism as a political system
>a strong central government to provide constant checking of lower authorities to eliminate corruption as the baseline level and prevent it from creeping upward or outward
>power grabs can occur if a future is not properly laid out and if the leadership has not developed proper contingency plans

Fixed that for ya

>>52404836
Yet it is used to destroy freedom based on what is "good" for the state. It's bad like all Authoritarian forms of government.

>>52404877
How was the Alliance encouraging revolts, terror attacks, and theft of government property not bad for the Imperial State?

>>52404801
Every society needs to choose where to draw that line. What if I want to exercise my personal freedom in a way that damages society? Perhaps I want to abuse drugs, wasting the resources that society has allocated to my life. Should that be legal, or is limiting personal freedom still universally evil?

>>52404900
Because that came long after the Empire killed or imprisoned people for speaking out or protesting any injustice committed.

>>52404801
if individual freedom was limitless it would be anarchy, and every attempt at an anarchist society in history has been a miserable and bloody failure

>>52404589

Good idea. We were going to do a western along the Hutt highway where they were the mexicans/peeps that had been there a while. Had their own toughs. Empire was the cavalry, Zygerrians the injuns, Black Sun as all manner of bandits. Roughly.

>>52404935
They imprisoned people who openly protested, and even then not always. They didn't start killing anyone until it became a rare necessity in response to the Alliance's actions. Even the AOR book has a Rebel rousing NPC, and it implies more or less directly that the Alliance often implants agents into protesting crowds to attack Imperial forces in ambush or to fire on them if the protest becomes violent. The Empire is aware of this. It's like the Boston Massacre. You're a group of half a dozen soldiers facing down a crowd of hundreds, all of whom could have weapons and all of whom are angry at you. Do you let them stay there and risk getting murdered, or do you disperse them?

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>>52405026
>Do you let them stay there and risk getting murdered, or do you disperse them?
You could always land you ship on the crowd.

>>52404922
It's beneficial to help people become productive members of society yes. You target the drugs, not the victims. You also help prevent measures were drug use would be better than living without them.

>>52404950
Which is why you do it in a way that maximizes both safety and freedom as much as possible at the same time. Like America has been doing as best as possible. So some official can't do stupid shit like make Star Wars enemy propaganda and a danger to the state.

>>52405026
Oh, well, I guess the Empire coming to your world and stripping it off it's culture, resources, etc is fine. Thanks now Sheev can make his JO crystal.

>>52405140
The only culture you need in the Empire is the Imperial culture.

>>52404589
A bounty hunter spaghetti western would make me hard as fuck

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>>52405157
Truly, the Empire is the epitome of high culture. How can aliens even compete with this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7bmXywWus8

>>52405157
Mmm the exquisite culture of an incompetent military.

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>>52405205

>>52405205
so, you get a little tingle down your spine until you hold your TIEs in you hangar bay or as long as possible too right? its a wonderful feeling, only launching 6 TIEs to intercept a running freighter. Almost as much fun as ordering to intensify forward firepower AFTER your shield generator goes down and you have fighters crawling all over your superstructure.

>>52405258
You think that's the shit? Try disobeying your cunt superior to take out the rebel command ship! Oh man I'm really feeling it! I'll be rolling in glory!!

>>52405292
Get that glory anon. Who cares about strategic placement, you'll be getting to be grand admiral yourself if you take down the enemy command ship. Just gotta soak it in.

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>>52405292
>>52405491

>>52405675

RIP Interdictor #2.

>>52405687
I have a friend who fucking adores the Interdictor. Showing him that clip is gonna be such fun to taunt with. Especially if I get to ram his baby in our Corellian Conflict.

>>52405725

Alas, you can't do it with the same ship unless FFG is gonna do cross-faction in Armada.

>>52405725
>>52405794
Just use a Hammerhead corvette and call it Sato's Sacrifice

>>52405846
>>52405794
I figure they'll eventually do a cross faction trade like they did for scum and rebels.
If we never get a Flurry title I'll be goddamn amazed considering we got fucking Jaina's light of all ships.

>>52405172
>>52405000
>>52404625

Badlands: A Star Wars Story
>On the frontier of known space, criminals and vigilantes alike ply the stars away from the evil Galactic Empire.
>In the Badlands regions scum and villains exploit the good colonists who have settled there.
>Their only hope is a group of heroes who have come seeking their own freedom.

>>52405926
Depending on their actions, have them either be elected mayor/sheriff of a colony or take the mayorhood by force. Deal with exploitation by cartel bullies, depredations by freaky giant alien monsters, collect supplies from the regional center and dodge pirates when returning with their cargo, dispense frontier justice, find some rather valuable but labour or skill intensive good within the colonial boundaries, import workers through diplomacy or blaster diplomacy, make contracts with an up-and-coming underdog trade group to sell off commodities and kick the big syndicates in the profit margins, and generally make money and chew bubblegum.

>>52406039
Fuck yeah. Jedi on the run, Bounty Hunter coming to make do, Colonists rising up, and Rebels building up outposts.

>>52405926
>Galactic Empire
>evil

Your first and biggest mistake.

>>52406211
This mindset always amuses me when people want to do "freedom" games and be fringers.

>let's be free from the empire!
>by being subservient to the alliance!

I watched a homebrew campaign played once and even one of the players in-character and out-of-character got frustrated that his party, after seeing the Empire arrived, said they wanted to get the Rebels involved to secure their planet, because A: they had no idea who the Empire or Rebels were and B: they wanted to keep their planet free by giving control of it to the Alliance Military, and other three players and GM just said "dude just roll with it", and I could empathize with his frustration.

>>52406211
Ew, jedi. Ew, rebels. No civil war here, no weird space wizards, just honest people making a living and dishonest ones trying to take one. Why fight idealists or authoritarians when you're not in the sphere of influence of their empire?

>>52406325
Fuck that nigga, it's the only place for some classic samurai in the west sort of deal. I'm not here for space wizards, I'm here for wild west samurai with lightsabers.

>>52406353
>Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

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>>52406366
>Not realizing that it's the perfect opportunity to reenact Red Sun in space

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Let's assume you use minis for your Star Wars RPG games. Big assumption, I know.

What do you use for it? Obviously Wizards put out their Star Wars Minis for their d20 stuff with a 1-inch grid and all that nonsense, but what about other stuff?

I bought up one of each thing in the Star Wars Command line because they seemed neat and seemed like a decent deal for what they were, but I haven't actually had cause to use any of them yet. Does anywhere here even know what I'm talking about and know if it would be a good fit for RPG stuff?

Pic related, it's a few of the Star Wars Command minis. The concept seems to be for them to be Star Wars green army men, at the kind of markup you'd expect from Ha$bro.

>>52406396
A jedi growing from the start as a PC loses its wow factor, one suddenly exploding through an enemy checkpoint while the party prepares to enact an incredibly convoluted plot to do the same and watching them struggle to react is one of the most fun things i've ever done to them. For me, at least.

good taste in westerns, but solo jedi both centralise a campaign around their exploits, generally forces the party to one end of the moral compass, and attract Vader and/or star destroyers in great numbers. Not a thing you want when trying to create a colony of a few hundred citizens

Been away for a while.
How did you guys like the rebels finale?

>>52406788
when will a peeved sheev end-u the bendu?

Enjoyable, barring orbital bombardment scene, honestly the space battle in general, and bendu not killing as many rebels as he ought to have. Lots of unexpected survivals. Enjoyed the jap kamikazeing himself

Twin suns probably wouldve been the better finale for the season, i feel

>>52406788
I loved it. It felt like a half-length Star Wars movie brought to the television screen. Crazy twists, awesome space battles, lots of good quips.

>>52406788

It was great but doesn't measure up to Twilight of the Apprentice.

The loss of Sato and Konstantine is ultimately irrelevant in the grand scheme of things thanks to Dodonna and Pryce respectively being perfectly positioned to replace them.

Ultimately, Thrawn and the Bendu were a let down but in the end, the rebels won in a way that FEELS like a loss, so Thrawn at least did acceptably well, since there's no way he would have been allowed the total victory he damn well deserved.

>>52406418
Just use the legos

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>>52406788
I liked the overall tempo of the two ep's, very quick and a lot of stuff happened considering it was 50 or so minutes to pack it all in. Not like some shows where you get a bit of a 'filler' episode full of feels and other fuckery
Lot of yolo activity that normally only players would do like jumping on a ship in zero-g and shooting rockets point blank into it and pissing off powerful force to the point they 'hold my beer, watch this'. Thrawn technically won the engagement, destroyed their base, caused severe casualties and if it wasn't for certain dumb arse junior officers not following orders it probably would have been a complete wipe.
Plus Kallus did some dirty, low down sneaky spook shit and managed to get away with it.

>The tank commander who dies in Rogue One is named after a Legends character and counts as his canon counterpart

Legends:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Arbmab
Canon:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jimmon_Arbmab

The amount of autism in whoever kept track of "Arbmab" and worked on Rogue One's visual guide is frightening

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Jabba Experiment!
Thoughts?

Z-95 Headhunter: · N'dru Suhlak (17)
· Lone Wolf (2)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
"Hot Shot" Blaster (3)
YV-666: · Bossk (35)
Rage (1)
Jabba The Hutt (5)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Glitterstim (2)
Kihraxz Fighter: · Talonbane Cobra (28)
Predator (3)
Glitterstim (2)
-- TOTAL ------- 100p. --

>>52408722
That's Pablo Hidalgo, anon. He's one of Lucasfilm's specialists in Canon. I'd say he's pretty much living the dream, autism or not.
He worked on parts of Star Wars D6 so it's even possible that he created Arbmab.

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>>52404804
>The EU

>>52406503
True that. Got to have a GM ego makes sure to keep the focus on the main plot, and the player to remember to never draw too much Imperial attention.

In order to counter Autoblaster B-Wings as a Scum player, should I try to out-blaster them at close range with Boba, or just go for longer range attacks? I can't figure out how to tackle them.

Poking my head in from another thread to make sure an analogy I'm using fits: Aside from Edge of the Empire, has there ever been a 'good' solution to Force users in a mixed party, aside from 'kill everyone else and replace them with other Force Users''?

..and does anyone have that jedi-sith janitor storytime capture? Ta.

>>52402995
Is there an editable sheet for Star Wars Saga?

>>52409234
It isn't as bad as SAGA. The key is for the GM to balance things not inlt encounter wise, but story wise. The plot isn't and never really should be on Jedi/Sith in any non F&D game, and the force should be a background attribute.

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>>52409234
I've run force users alongside the normal characters and it works just fine. The fact the other guys usually have actual skills of decent competency also means they're quite broad in their ability to tackle a variety of challenges I can think up.
There's times to spotlight certain characters so they get their time to shine as well. Maybe that will mean hacking important imperial data, flying them through a blockade or in the case of a force user, being that poor cunt who has to figure out what the weird pyramid thing the empire seems to desperately want back.

But, having said that- your PC's need to work as a group and that covers their strengths and weaknesses

>>52409179
Just avoid their range 1 front arcs and you win.

>>52409234

Well my game includes a force sensitive who is just coming into knowledge of what she is.
I'm basically running short side episodes (like, an hour tops) in between proper games for the full party.
She's still getting some weird force fuckery as she engages her training, but the others arent just sort of sitting there for an hour whilst she has weird visions and shit.

>>52408748

>Jabba Experiement

I assume if the list works you'll switch the name out to one of the several available Jabba related puns such as:

>Stop your jibber-Jabba!
>Jabba-Wocky
>Hit the Hutt
>Jabba? I hardly know her!

I'm not sure about Talonbane, I've used him a couple of times and he just folds up like a cardboard cutout generally.
How about a Cloaking Device instead of Glitterstim? Pair it up with some Ray-Shielding as well?

I dunno.

>>52404875
>many fascist leaders have been hanged by their own subjects

>>52409179

You counter B-Wings by taking a pair of Y-Wings with TLTs.

What do we think of this?

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v4!s!22:219,-1:23:3:U.124;15::-1:-1:;17:214:-1:-1:;12:140:-1:-1:;12:140:-1:-1:&sn=I%20have%20you%20now

I've been testing out similar things with the YNOT Benchmarker and getting pretty decent result. Well for me anyhow, I'm not good with swarms or rolling green dice.

I think it'd work pretty well, it's thematic, it's an interesting TIE Swarm variation and with minimal effort you can get a Darth Vader who's rolling 4 Attack Dice and THEN adding an extra Crit to a target at range 3. Plus it's not like Backstabber and Mauler Mithel or double Crack Blacks don't work either.

>>52409272
Guys? Anyone?

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>>52409524
>Jabba Cobra N'Dru!
I dunno...

I'm considering slapping stealth device on him instead of pred for defensive glitstim synergy. Since I could just target lock for rerolls.

But you meant the Illicit upgrade right?

>>52409658
>But you meant the Illicit upgrade right?

Yeah.

It's also worth pointing out that the Special-K has shit for green on it's dial, so you would be pretty predictable as well.

>>52409710
My only gripe with cloaking is that you lose your attack.
And if cobra is getting attention that's letting Ndru and Bossk reign free.

And about green manoeuvres since glitstim isn't an action you could do a white, keep stress and still glitstim again.

>>52409747

Best use of Talonbane + Cloak I found was to forward 3 or 4 (essentially forward a bit, but not so far that you can get shot at) in the first turn and cloak.
Then, next turn you decloak forward, and then reveal a Speed 5 K-Turn. Usually this puts you directly up the arse of the guys who were rushing to engage with you, 5 Attack Dice ahoy!.

Unfortunately this is the ideal time to pop a bag of Glittles, but you've used the slot for a cloak. Thinking back, I should have gone for Adrenaline Rush or Predator not PtL on him, and I'd reccomend AR since it keeps the points down.

>>52409799
Hm.
Sounds like a cool tactic that I'm deffo going to try.

However I like the glitterstim into white into glitterstim as it can be cleared with Inspiring recruit on the third turn in the sequence.

Recruit obviously helps with Rage but also with the VT-666s Red Stop into Glitstim.

I'm an Empire fan, and I'm alright with the Empire being an oppressive, authoritarian entity that has done some seriously bad stuff. I'm not going to say that it was completely justified in what it did. I just hate it when they go into retarded grimdark territory because "empire bad".

I think the most evil man in the Empire should be the Emperor. I don't like when they write literally every Imperial character as a complete monster. It's cartoonish, and lacks depth. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying SW is some extremely complex stuff. It's a space opera with clearly defined good and evil.There is a way, however, to execute that in a way that is relatively nuanced and isn't idiotic.

Essentially. the Empire shouldn't be a government composed of thousands of individual Hitlers. In the canon, good examples of the Empire written well are Tarkin and Catalyst.

Was the Jedi Medical Corps just for washouts, or could one volunteer to be part of the MedCorps?

>>52410604
Yeah I'd agree with that view. Plus having people who find themselves conflicted about their convictions/what they have to do make for better characters

>>52410604
I'm in much the same boat as you. A lot of my friends give me shit when we game because I'm sympathetic to the Empire and skeptical of the rebellion. They get shitty when I poke back that they're fanboying over terrorists most of the time though.

I've always seen the Empire as this big monolithic entity, large enough that you're gonna find a lot of diversity in how its run at a local level. That each individual Moff and Governor is gonna run their worlds differently, some will have Imperial Army on every street corner and secret police dragging away dissidents, others just want to collect their tithe and do their duty protecting imperial citizens.

I think then that the Emperor has a top-down influence. He cherry picks ruthless and cruel men to serve under him, and they rise through the ranks quickly. The honorable ones, the noble ones, draw dead end duty until they eventually leave the military or positions of authority. Pellaeon was always a great character for me, in some ways tugging at me more than Thrawn ever did because he was a good man within a bad system trying to do good, believing in order and stability that only got his chance to shine and change the course of history after the Emperor was removed.

I wanna play in RPG's more and play the loyal citizen, sympathetic to the Rebel talking points but considering their violence an affront to his morals and cowardice compared to trying to change the system from within. Sadly I'm forever-DM and don't wanna force politics into my games until the players do first

>>52410712
I'm assuming one could opt for the Medical/Agri corps since only the knights really had a test to get into.

>>52410775
Exactly. Well said.

I don't even like that Vader has been made the personification of the evil present in the Empire. It undermines his redemption and doesn't do justice to his character.

>>52411032
For me, Vader has always been like an attack dog. He is cold, violent and can even be cruel, but he lacks agency. He hates himself, more than anything, hates the master he agreed to serve and the system that he helped to establish. The hate is always pointed inwards, but sometimes it seeps out in cracks, and he doesn't care so much since it's corrupt and arrogant soldiers that bare the brunt of his lashing out.

His redemption is him re-learning that he has a choice, he discovers that he hasn't lost everything and is resigned to a hate filled, cold existence until death. He has a son, and even a daughter, and he is willing to throw his own life away to take back his freedom and try to undo at least one of the things he helped create, the Emperor.

>>52410775
>terrorists
Unless they're specifically fanboying over Saw's faction, calling the Rebels "terrorists" is straight up factually incorrect. You never see the mainstream Rebellion attempting to instill terror in people to achieve its goals. Most Rebs also don't actively go out of their way to attack non-military targets. If anything, the destruction of Tarkin's pet terror weapon shows that the main Rebellion fights terrorism (the state-sponsored flavor, anyway). They're insurgents and revolutionaries, sure, but technically not terrorists.

>>52411114

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, but yeah in the greater scheme of Star Wars the rebellion is definitely closer to the 'freedom fighter' end of the spectrum. Avoiding civilian casualties is usually their paramount

>>52411114
I know, but that's part of what triggers them. Then in true player-character fashion, they proceed to out-saw Saw when they get to be part of the rebellion, attacking non-military targets, willing to kill any number of innocents to kill a few of the 'bad guys', constantly wanting to capture and torture people for information. I tried to keep count of how many times they decided to plant explosives to deal with a problem and not care about innocents or even guilt beyond 'they're the empire, they're bad guys', but it started showing up every session so I gave up.

>>52409561
I think this list would be significantly better with some changes-

Replace Mauler and Backstabber with Howlrunner (Adaptability) and another Black Crack. It keeps the damage output of the other TIES good.

An issue with this is that you will need to eat those evade tokens at PS 9, which means you likely won't have them when your 3-health ties get shot at.

Then, the issue with this list

>>52411083
Eh, I wouldn't say he lacks agency or doesn't think he has a choice. By ESB he's planning to overthrow the Emperor, and has been for the past three years.

I guess I never liked the mopey, self-hating Vader we got in the EU. I always preferred the powerful badass we saw in ESB, and that, thankfully, has influenced most portrayals of Vader in the new canon.

>>52411171
Were it my campaign, I'd have the Rebellion disavow them and send a rebel kill-squad after them.

>>52411171
>Then in true player-character fashion, they proceed to out-saw Saw when they get to be part of the rebellion, attacking non-military targets, willing to kill any number of innocents to kill a few of the 'bad guys', constantly wanting to capture and torture people for information
At that point, Mon Mothma herself should be publicly calling them faggots.

>>52411194
Perhaps where we differ is that I don't think the self hate is moping, it's a fire lit just beneath the surface that burns away all that he perceives as weak and sets him on a course that the Emperor intended from the start but is only diverted because of Luke either being the chosen one or just jump starting them daddy instincts.

>>52411197
>>52411219
The fun part? They're not even official rebels. We're playing Edge of the Empire but half the group really wants to be in the Rebellion so are doing everything they can to steer the group that way whilst trying to make the Rebellion appealing. Except I think they're making more of the group sympathetic to trying things from the Empires point of view in the future, or skipping over Age of Rebellion to try Force and Destiny and see them get fucked over by the morality system

>>52411171

Considering the way the Rebel Alliance disavows Saw and his gang of literal terrorists and is on 'get shot if they go and try to parley without Jyn Erso' terms with him, yeah, it seems like that kinda thing would get them thrown out VERY quickly.

>>52411261
>they're not even Rebels
Holy shit, my sides. They're tryhards who think war crimes is the best way to get Mon Mothma sempai to notice them. Fucking hell, I'm dying.

Yeah, definitely send a squad after them and have them publicly disavowed.

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>>52411287
For giggles, have Rebel Special Forces and ImpComs calling for a temporary truce and joint op to hunt the party down. That should show just how many lines they've crossed.

>>52411261
I prefer furious Vader over mopey. Same reasons, same effect, just him being a the living incarnate of rage stuffed into a black body glove and given cybernetics. I mean this is a man who can and does choke people to death with his mind for crossing him.

>>52411319
I wouldn't go so far as an official joint op. Instead, have them get pinned down both by Rebel Special Forces and ImpComs. When the two squads finally meet, they decide our actual terrorist PC's are the priority target.

>>52411287
I would have put my foot down on it a while ago if we were actually playing Age of Rebellion, but the irony that they're just some fanboys progressively making things worse for themselves and giving me all these great hooks to have them realise one day 'oh shit, maybe we're the bad guys?' is just too good to pass up.

The biggest fanboy is a pilot, and has been working hard to customise the groups ship and really make it his own personal Falcon. My next gift for the group is to give them a one-man fighter, this players personal favourite, fully decked out in Rebel Alliance colours just to force him to decide between helping the group in space combat on the shared ship, or going off to showboat and cosplay being a rebel in a fighter, and have to watch someone else pilot at least one of the ships, all whilst I imply that this is a ship that could be making an actual difference in the hands of the alliance themselves and the group only has it because it was never delivered or it was stolen from those who need it most.

I sometimes feel like good DMing is equal parts gift giving, and trolling.

>>52411336

>the massive fanboy is going to steal Rebel gear in order to showboat being a Rebel

Fucking kek, this party really are shooting themselves in the foot with a Death Star, huh.

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>>52411336
>The biggest fanboy is a pilot
>Wearing Rebel Alliance colors
How much fangirling has he done over Luke and Wedge? And how would he react if Rogue Squadron made a surprise appearance, not to sign autographs, but to kill him?

>>52411336
With every detail this gets more and more hilarious. They're actually making the rope they want you to hang them with.

Here's an idea: have the Imperials lure them into a trap by sending a dude who pretends to be a Rebellion agent offer them a chance to join, if they just do one mission.

For shits and giggles, see how far you can take this. If you actually get them to attack a Rebel base, it'd be comedy gold.

>>52411359
It'll be an indirect theft, the ship will come from a Hutt or some other neutral criminal group. I reckon it should only be implied to the guy, just by asking something innocent between sessions like "So do you think that new A-Wing of yours was meant to be delivered to the Rebellion or was it stolen from them?" and just leave it at that.

>>52411380
A little of both, he's a smuggler pilot who's working as quickly as he can into Force Exile to start his training just like Luke. I believe Kyle Katarn is who he'd have statues of if they made Kyle Katarn statues though.

>>52411388
That's actually a great idea, I've had fake-recruiters tucked away as an idea for a while but a fake recruiter recruiting them to attack the people they think they're being recruited by is too good an opportunity to pass up

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>>52411431
>The pilot is a Katarn fanboy
Oh lawdy lawd, I can't even imagine the laughs that will result from Kyle Katarn being sent to bring him to justice.

>>52411431

>he's a Katarn fanboy


So when are they going to accidentally ruin one of Katarn's missions by raiding the same imperial base he's trying to break into and completely fucking up months of Rebel planning?

>>52411431
Y'know, now that I think about it, it might also be interesting to have Rebel and Imp culture change a bit due to your players actions.

If they're the type to shoot escape pods from ships, that'd probably offend pilots and aces on both sides, and I could see there being an unofficial rule that if they show up, they're the target.

>>52403646
>>52403688
Imperial handbook is mostly a reprint of info in the Imperial Sourcebook with some new graphics and modernization plus silly comments by rebels that stole it.

>>52404804
Uh, no, the EU said Alderaan had three or four frigates and a cruiser/freighter full of small arms that they sent away from the planet on autopilot. And in Canon they have a handful of Hammerhead and Corellian Corvettes.

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Instead of spending all that money on a Death Star, why didn't the empire just blow up planets by accelerating a small ship to light speed and flying it into a planet?

>>52411552

Solar winds.

>>52411570
Wat?

What's the difference between a Force Sensitive like an energent or exile, and someone with a force rating? Is Force Senstitive just a trait that gives FR1?

>>52411552
It's not as cool-looking as a moon-sized space station. Plus, the Death Star has uses beyond killing planets. Had it been used properly, it would have been the centerpiece for an unstoppable fleet or a fleet unto itself. Imagine how many TIEs that thing could have deployed or how many smaller capitals it could dock/service.

>>52411552
That's a different type of terror from what they want. What they wanted was peace by holding a big gun over your head, not by throwing EVERYONE everywhere in to a panic by deliberately doing the one thing you're not supposed to do with capital ships in hyperspace.

>>52391737
I remember joining a fan group for the Empire called the Emperor's Hammer. Really cringey fanfic tier group, not because it was Empire, but because it was "led" by some guys OC Chiss Grand Admiral. We'd play TIE Fighter missions and submit them for competitions, write fiction, etc. There was a rank system, you were assigned to a 'ship,' the whole nine yards.

This was in 1998. So, get fucked rebel scum.

I'm thinking about building a non-force sensitive Jedi fanboy for a campaign, and I'm stuck on whether he should use Melee or Lightsaber.

Melee seems better since he can't use the special Lightsaber abilities, but it doesn't really suit the character. Thoughts?

>>52412020
Melee seems like it makes more sense fluffwise, based on just the information you've given. How would have gotten his hands on a lightsaber or trained in such a skill-set?

What's the general opinion of the A-wing in current x-wing meta?
I'm assuming it's shitty

>>52412020
Is he using a lightsaber?

>>52412231
>>52412238
With an actual crystal? No, but according to Endless Vigil I think, it's not too hard to create a lightsaber with a training emitter. He'd probably be rolling with that if he went the Lightsaber route.

As for how he trained, it'd be entirely self taught. It's impractical, dangerous, and generally counter-intutive, but it's exactly in his personality to do it, just cause "muh Jedi".

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>>52411552
Not a lot actually approaches light speed in Star Wars, even the smaller fighter craft are somewhat arbitrarily given speeds around 1000-1300km/h. Which even by 1970's technology wasn't that fast considering the SR71 hand hit 3500km/h and a ye olde Phantom II can get to about 2500km/h and its got all the aerodynamics of a house brick. For people to get anywhere, they use hyperspace drives and that throws them literally into an alternate dimension... which, may or may not be slightly more astounding than hitting light speed depending on how you want to physics fuck it.

The Killing Star isn't a bad book and it has relativistic kill vehicles in it. Basically a large rock accelerated to near-light speed and hits like a motherfucker, also made more difficult in that its quite hard to track it's progress and not a lot will stop it

>>52412320

At least he'd only stun himself if he hits himself.

>>52412384
Those speeds were for atmospheric flight only. Ships fly much much faster in a vacuum.

>>52404734
It's evil because they say it's evil. You entered a setting that's about a simple good vs. evil narrative, and aren't willing to actually buy the narrative.

>>52412465
Yep, but a number's never been slapped on them in vacuum so we can figure out how long it would take them to reach light speed.
The fact they're still piloted by a human in vacuum with not a lot of computer assistance, kind of means that its not real fast and SW is all about that touch where people are flying around in the equivalent of a WW2 spitfire or mustang

>>52412528
True

>>52412528
>a number's never been slapped on them in vacuum
Legends has maximum acceleration figures, so you could probably use those.

>>52409272
I'm not sure if you'll still be able to get it cus it was on the wizards forums, but I used to use an excellent Excell sheet. Had damn near everything built in so I rarely even needed to reference a book. I guess try Google swrpg saga Excell sheet? If the threads still up this evening and I can find a copy I might be able to upload it somewhere for you

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>>52412611
Years ago I had a look at those (MGLT) and wasn't really able to come up with anything satisfactory as they where really damn slow!
That said, they 'should' be a lot faster than they are and I since gave up bothering to come up with something numerical that would fit with canon and other sources. There just really isn't a happy ground and its sort of not needed for the vast majority of gaming when we can just say your fighter is speed 4 and a transport is speed 3.

Applying physics to a sci-fi setting which never gave physics any regard in the first place, just leads to madness!

Though, just watching through Rebels again and spotted this little critter in the Rebel fleet that I'd not seen before

>>52412911
Some starfighters also have alternate G-force acceleration figures. IIRC, Legends' A-wing maxes out at 5100 G.

>>52412911
Braha-tok class Dornean Gunship

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>>52412961
That's a lot of G!

>>52412971
Oh cool, so its that ship which was seen at battle of Endor

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>>52413167

>>52411171
I can see the Imperial propaganda posters now.
>Rebel "Heroes":
>Torture Innocents
>Target Civilians
>Bomb Buildings
>The Empire needs YOU to fight this terror!
>Report suspicious activity to your local Imperial Office immediately!

>>52411451
>>52411490
>Players fight Kyle Katarn
That's like having them fight Vader; YOU DIED is all the rules necessary.

>>52412020
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightfoil Make him a Tapani fanboy?

>>52411868
>>52412384
The thing to understand about the Death Star is it's entirely an example of fighting yesterday's war. The DS was designed with the intent that it would win the Clone Wars near singlehandedly. Imagine if the Republic had had a DS during the battle of Coruscuant-the CIS fleet would have been sucked into a fight against a massive orbital defense armored turbolaser platform able to slug it out with every ship they had while picking off major command ships using the superlaser. All of those costly assaults against CIS fortress world with huge ass planetary shields? The DS could have taken them down no problem.

>>52409589
http://docslide.us/documents/star-wars-saga-edition-fillable-pdf-character-sheet.html Google is your friend, for the future. You running a Saga campaign?

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SPOILERS: If you're in my AoR game The Offspring of Franchise don't read my post you hacks.
I'm GMing an AoR game and the party is going to be assigned to a diplomatic/military mission on Mandalore. Basically a terrorist organization is trying to take over Mandalore by uniting the disparate clans around the planet. The players have to offer those clans a better deal to get them on the players sides. Ultimately this will conclude with some mass combat on the HQ of the terrorists. I need some ideas for mini-encounters for this setup. I've got a basic idea of what I want the big meetings to be like but I'm scratching my head for anything else.
I'd appreciate creativity on this; having imps smash through the door isn't too exciting anymore.

>>52413631
Wasn't it designed by a member of the Trade Federation though? It was shown to not be complete until after the Clone Wars had ended - did they expect the war would take decades?
Palpatine obviously didn't think so.
Wait, wouldn't that invalidate the whole purpose of Rogue One if the Imperials already had the blueprints they needed? Did they just not trust the plans and needed someone to redesign them?

>>52411552
Accelerating a small ship to light speed and flying it into a planet to destroy it has always been such a stupid rule in Star Wars. It makes space terrorism way too easy. Just hijack a ship, bypass tzhe safeties and BAM! Billions dead.

>>52413936
My understanding, and I might be wrong, is that the geonosians only built the station itself. The superlaser was being developed independantly.

>>52413942
Before I knew about the actual lightspeed engines in Star Wars, I was always under the impression a hyperspace jump was a matter of folding the space around a ship to connect two points in the galaxy and then running the ship through the 'tunnel' at a relatively even interior speed.

>>52413942
Safeties? What safeties? Star wars is the universe where point defenses don't exist, civilians wield automatic weapons and apparently can buy Star Destroyers (Errant Venture)

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>>52408722
>>91110126
The Imperial Hammers ("Hell's Hammers") are one of the most badass things in the entire EU, up there with that Stormtrooper commando squad and its sergeant that kicked the shit out of lightsaber Luke.

>"We controlled both ground and air superiority, or so we thought. Their speed, by the Force, their speed…the Hammers destroyed everything we threw at them, overrunning our forward positions, we had no choice but a tactical withdrawal."

At Turak IV the rebels had to send a literal army to take out a single regiment of the Imperial Hammers, and the Imperials were slaughtering everything the rebels threw at them until the rebels Thermopylae'd and sabotaged their supply lines behind, still losing an ungodly amount of troops in the process. Even as they withdrew from the siege the Imperials still went back to retrieve one of their lost elite tanks against increasingly huge numbers of rebels, and they fucking did it and they fucking got it back. They were a small regiment to begin with and understrength after, but they were so motivated and skilled that the regiment then went on to take an entire fucking planet from the Alliance. UNDERSTRENGTH.

The rebels feared the Imperial Hammers so much that even after the Empire fell, long after, the New Republic's military intelligence was still keeping an eye on them, viewing them as a major threat along with the likes of Thrawn. It's only because of them being divided up and split into garrisons after Endor that they didn't get a chance to re-unify, but Thrawn was planning on it, and had the Imperial Hammers been reformed, Coruscant would've had Thrawn's flag over it within a week of the reformation.

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>>52414135
>civilians wield automatic weapons
SHALL

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>>52414221
> By the end of the battle, the Alliance had been reduced to a one-to-one parity with the Imperials from a five-to-one superiority at the beginning of the engagement.

God bless the fucking Hammers. Shit like this makes me proud to be an Empire fan.

And sad to know Disney will never have stuff like this again.

>>52414135
In his defense he earned that star destroyer.

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>>52414267
>tfw no Flags of our Fathers/Letters from Iwo Jima double movie featuring the Hammers on one side and a similarly elite Rebel ground team on the other
Come on, Disney, we know you like money and merchandise. Give us some real tanks instead of just that thing that wasn't a tank from Rogue One.

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>>52413223
>When your browsing history is probably slightly worse and very deeply nerdy :(

>>52414221
I don't think current era can handle the immense amounts of 'fuck everything' the FireHawke would deal out.
Proper heavy repulsor tanks.

>>52410604
>>52410775
>>52413253
Another Imperial guy here.

I like the Empire too, and call me "/pol/" all you want, but I do believe that an orderly, regimented, and stable society can be achieved and is worth achieving, and that's what the Empire sets out to do.

I also do agree that certain Imperials have done some bad shit, but a few bad apples does not an entire basket rotten make.

Many in the Empire are genuinely good people who believe in the merits of law, order, and peaceful control and stability through it. It baffles me to see Rebel soldiers dying in the films taken as a "tragedy" while Stormtroopers and Imperial personnel dying is seen as "heroic" or "cool". They're people, just like the Rebel soldiers, and they too are fighting for their own reasons. Glory, money, avenging loved ones harmed by the other side, or simple belief in their cause. I genuinely sympathize with the Empire and its people. Sure, some of its leaders are bad, but what's the alternative? Going back to a system that bloated, corrupted, and rotted from the inside out for centuries? That never achieved anything and let the Jedi Order indirectly manage its affairs? Whose people were either suffering or who thought it was a joke? The Empire has downsides, but it is still the lesser of the two evils, and had the Rebellion not started causing trouble in the years before Yavin, it would've been even better. Fuck the Rebels, man. They ruined what could've been great in my eyes.

>>52411114
>>52411266
No, according to multiple Imperial sourcebooks for the RPG and AOR itself, the Rebellion does in fact permit violence and while it "regrets" collateral damage it views it as a necessity at times. The disavowing is of course, in my opinion, Disney's typical squeaky-clean rhetoric that leaves no room for moral ambiguity.

>>52412467
Here's your (You).

>>52414381
Letters from Turak IV would be the best war movie of Star Wars there could possibly be.

>>52414403
The Hammers and other stories of 'fuck everything' Imperial armor did come at a time when scifi authors were trying to emulate Warhammer 40k because of how big it was getting in the mid-late 90's 'nerd scene', so a lot of it focuses on intricate details and enthusiast levels of tank detail and tactical elements that casual fans would be averse to more likely than not, meaning that Disney likely isn't going to try anything that would be too hard for the 6 year olds in the audience to comprehend viewing or reading.

>>52413871
Someone finds the Mask, and it's not the players.

>>52414433
Yeah, there are two main barriers between the Galactic Empire and moral solubility:
>The dubious nature of the Tarkin Doctrine (including the Death Star)
>The fact that it's ultimately controlled by Sith Lords
Most of the problems with the Empire ultimately originate from one or the other, but those two are a huge part of the Empire's formation. Under different circumstances, it could have been a good idea. But not in the context it formed from.

>>52413942
Planets have shielding so that usually wouldn't work not to mention most planets gravity would probably destroy the ship before it impacted with the mass shadow.

>>52414381
Damn that greentext format sucks ass

>>52414704
Tarkin Doctrine, not really an 'evil' thing honestly. Proactively convincing opposition that fighting you would be pointless via fear is not really an evil thing. It goes back to the old carry a big stick mentality. Let your opposition know you'll whip ass if needed. Plus, the Tarkin Doctrine came in response initially to Separatist loyalist activity, and later to Rebels. It wasn't like Tarkin woke up and thought "Man, I wanna scare the shit out of some people today."

The Death Star I view as completely ambiguous. It's a space station superweapon. Neither evil nor good. It's just a weapon.

And the Sith Lords part is something that in and of itself is also morally dubious. Is a Sith evil because he's a Sith? Does being a Sith make you objectively evil, or a Jedi objectively good? At their core, the Jedi and Sith are different only ideologically. The Sith believe in absolutes and embracing the power of the Force and the feelings of one's self to achieve power. The Jedi believe in limiting the Force and restricting the feelings of one's self to achieve tranquility. It's not a matter of one says they're evil, one says they're good. A Sith ruler could be absolutely benevolent, just as a Jedi ruler could be absolutely malevolent.

>>52404804
No, the EU made it clear that Alderaan disposed of all of their remaining weapons following the Clone Wars.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Another_Chance

>>52414843
>The Death Star I view as completely ambiguous. It's a space station superweapon. Neither evil nor good. It's just a weapon.
>killing millions/billions of people to get some political opponents isn't evil
>reducing the number of habitable planets in a finite galaxy isn't evil

You're the guy who was saying fascism is great previously aren't you?

Looking at Edge of the Empire so i can run it for some friends, and all the recommended ships to start with are just copies of famous ships used by main characters in the movies or comics. Are the any other ships you would recommend on the core book or other books?

>>52413871

Cartels smash through the door, since they hear shit's going down and want to use it to set up in the power vacuum. Not necessarily to run the planet, but if they can get someone highly placed, theyre golden.
Black Sun, assorted hutts, invent a new cartel, go wild.

>>52414843
Yeah, putting aside the blowing the fuck out of a planet to make a point part, I really don't think "You have failed me for the last time" and choking the guy to death is appropriate dismissal procedure.

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>>52414433
>I also do agree that certain Imperials have done some bad shit, but a few bad apples does not an entire basket rotten make.

HAHAHAHAHA

>>52414843
Tarkin doctrine isn't carry a big stick, It's terrify people into obeying you for fear of the indiscriminate and overwhelming response.

>>52414914
Ghtroc or E-9 from Enter the Unknown

>>52414433
>The disavowing is of course, in my opinion, Disney's typical squeaky-clean rhetoric that leaves no room for moral ambiguity.

Rogue One was literally the first film to show the Rebellion not being squeaky clean perfect angels, the fuck are you talking about breh.

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>>52414991
>>52414914
I second the e9

>>52414906
>weapons of war aren't evil
>spaceships designed to blow up other spaceships and kill thousands or tens of thousands of people aren't evil
>artillery and orbital weaponry designed to destroy cities and fortresses aren't evil

Weapons aren't evil. It depends on who uses them and for what purpose. The Death Star on a strategic level was intended to be the atomic bomb, Exterminatus, a last resort. If a planet proved too difficult to take by force or the cost of doing so would far outweigh the gain, it would be used to terminate the problem. On a higher layer of the strategy for the Empire's control of the Outer Rim and its defense against Hutts, criminals, Rebels, and Separatists, it was intended to be a symbol of Imperial power, one that would discourage and dissuade armed resistance.

You're right, it isn't evil.

>>52414902
No, Alderaan had a strong planetary defense force and hidden stockpiles of weapons that they were shipping to the Alliance.

>While she claimed the planet was weaponless, it is said it had some of the strongest defenses in the Empire.

The home planet of a major figure of the Rebellion who has lied repeatedly to you and cost you numerous Imperial lives whose fathers is one of the leaders of the Rebellion and is a native of Alderaan where numerous aliens went to after the Empire rose to be supported by its harboring government full of Alliance sympathizers that were sending aid to the Rebels while taking benefits from the Empire and lying about it and not informing the Imperial loyalists in their population that they were outright opposed to them while also carrying one of the strongest defense systems in the galaxy.

Gee, it's almost like Alderaan was a major strategic target or something.

>>52412236
It's a nice little ship. Can be cheap filler or you can run Jake and have a nice ace. Not going to win games on its own with the 2 die primary, but a solid inclusion.

>>52414991
No, that's exactly what big stick is. Keep people from attacking you by letting them know you will do everything you can to demolish to them if they do so.

If big stick isn't good enough, then think full retliatiatory response doctrine. If you attack us, we will unload our arsenal on you to destroy you before you destroy us.

Maybe a little overkill, sure, but evil? No.

>>52414958
Vader was always an asshole. That doesn't mean every Sith's an asshole.

>>52415008
>breh
Post disregarded, and it's wrong anyway.

>>52414970
hello friendly mexican alien

>>52415009
That's a good looking ship.

>>52415078
Being Sith will make you an asshole. It's like the One Ring, shit makes you evil.

>>52415078

Nigger, remove the stick from your ass.
The Rebellion are never shown doing any wrong on a moral level, until Rogue One.

They're not on a level with Saw's group, but Cassian straight up blows away his contact rather than let him be captured, and is a step away from assassination. We also hear about other Rebel agents who ahve worked as assassins.
It's the first time we've actually been shown on screen that the Rebels arent whiter-than-white do-no-wrong heroes.


Unless of course you're going to cry out something about WOW WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE ON THE DEATH STAR or WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEYRE REBELLING AGAINST THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT or the other inane shit that certain pro-Empire shitposters have been spewing the last while.

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>>52414520
It was also a time they where attempting to join/cludge the D6 RPG into sort of an offshoot mini's game as well to get a few interested parties into that market. It never really got a lot of traction at least where I was, most of us where warhamming it up with the rest of the dorks and mostly happy enough with that.
Plus at the time I was poor as shit and spending more on mini's just really wasn't do-able... that damn plastic crack fix can cause starvation when you're an impoverished uni student

>>52414914
http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/

Thing is, you don't 'have to' give them anything specific, if you find something cool- run with it. That could be as small as a scout ship for a small group up to a great, wallowing bulk freighter if you think the group would like doing that.
Or alternatively you don't give them a ship at all and give them a business/homestead out of the colonist's SB, but its sometimes not as exciting as being blown out of the sky and murdered by TIE fighters. Heck, even if you wanted a mercenary campaign with everyone having a Z95 and being transported around in a carrier by their employer could work too.

Generally though, its best to start out small and let them work their way into something they'd like

>>52414433
Didn't the Republic only bloated, corrupted and became rotten as a result of Sidious, Plagueis and Tenebrous behind the scene plotting ? The Republic worked just fine before, and they brought it down to get back at the jedi. In the end, the Empire was only required because the sith worked to create a need for it during centuries.

Though it seems in theory, the Empire could have been beneficial to planets of the rim by cracking down on crime lords and the like, it did nothing of the sort and actually (in legends) worked hand in hand with them. While the Empire would theorically be a good thing, it seemed just as corrupt and festering, only more competent at gunning down those who tries to point it out, or change the Empire for the better.

>>52415078
Big stick applies to enemy targets and as you said, strongly relies on you advertising your weapons potential to discourage attacks. The closest way you could get to big stick with the death star would have been using it on Mon Cala.

Tarkin doctrine used a weapon of mass destruction in a sneak attack for maximum shock value on a prominent member of the Empire because he wanted to make a statement to other imperial controlled worlds. In no way was the weapon advertised, and the targets were their own people with the interest of cowing the rest of the populace.

Looking for some ideas from the fine folks of /swg/. My current party plays a group of Jedi roughly 1000 years before the events of the OT. The Republic is on the ropes against the Sith and we're tasked with doing whatever we can to hinder the war effort.

I was thinking a group of mystical space Green Berets where we go into strategically important planets and train locals and guerrillas to hassle the Sith, with occasional direct action against the Sith.

Does anybody have any other ideas on what else we can do? I do like the espionage and sabotage angle, but I also would like to train and fight the enemy.

>>52414433
>The Empire has downsides, but it is still the lesser of the two evils

Unless you're not human, like half the galaxy.
Unless you're a nascent force user, in which case you're going to be put down for no reason other than a quirk of your birth.
Unless you're an extant force user, in which case you're going to be put to death because the Emperor wants you gone so he can rule his empire without worrying about uppity Jedi who might take issue with his dictatorship.

And the Republic was bloated and corrupt primarily via the machinations of the Sith. As in, the man who deliberately ruined the Republic, deliberately orchestrated the Clone Wars, and then created the Empire to fix the problems he himself made.

>>52412236
Rebel list filler (this thing + snap shot and either Crack Shot or Juke is mean) or an ace, usually Jake.

It's a powerful ship.

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Can't a guy masturbate to starfighters in peace???

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>>52415451

The T65 X-Wing will forever be my shipfu.

The T70 is fine, and im sure the T80 will be nice in Last Jedi, but the 65 will forever be the best.

>>52415171
>>52415380

No, the Republic had issues before Palpatine showed up, pretty bad issues too, and many of its upper governing figures were ridiculously corrupt. Palpatine exploited what was already there.

>>52415146
Again, you're wrong, because the EU already made all of that clear, and it's Disney's "kid friendly" rhetoric that made the Alliance even disavow them considering they used tactics and methods that EU material and RPG sourcebooks, including AOR, already have confirmed that the Alliance uses.

>>52415511
Needs a Brazzers logo

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>>52415451
>>52415511
X-Wings, you say?

>>52415526
>the EU
>which is no longer canon
>which added tones of grey to the pure-white Rebellion from the Original Trilogy
>Disney have a new totally canon film which includes shades of grey for the Rebel Alliance

But no, you're right, obviously DISNEY are the ones who made the Rebels into perfect heroes who can never do anything questionable or ambiguous. It was never that way in the original films before other people wrote stuff around that, not at all.


Plus, if you want to delve into the old EU, the Sith had been working towards Palpy's takeover for centuries. It had been their plan literally all along.

>>52415161
>cozy wargaming with other dorks and your plastic fortune worth of minis in the late 90s

Simpler times.

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>>52415553

Much as I will always be a filthy slut for the X-Wing, the Defender is a beautiful piece of equipment and a fine shipfu.

>>52415359
Space U-571
You've got to steal a sith tender vessel, and use it to commandeer a sith raider, to acquire the coding mechanism for sith hyperwave communications.

>>52415511

Dorsal is actually a terrible attack vector for an ISD, now that I think about it. The barbette turbolasers look like they might be able to angle nearly all the way up, and that's a lot of firepower for even a snowball's chance of getting hit. You really want to come from fully behind in the command tower's blind spot or assault the ventral angle.

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>>52415078
>Death Star is just the big stick guys, nothing wrong with it
>we need a planet killer to demolish political dissidents within our own government before they can "destroy" us by giving people the idea that their opinions matter for shit to the boss man on Coruscant
Do you think maybe there's a flaw in your application of that concept?

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Hey /swg/, is there any way to decrease the Cumbersome quality on a melee weapon? The usual suspects like slings and bipods are all ranged-only.

>>52416507
What weapon

>>52416710
Vibro-saw, if it matters.

>>52416755
What is its cumbersome and how much is your brawn? If you don't already have an implant you can always get a strength prosthetic arm

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>>52415599
>Simpler times.
Yeah in some ways, all night and into next day rpg sessions or campaigns in various TT strategy games that ran for weeks are things I'll always remember fondly. But we all have to become 'responsible adults' at some point and every other poor bastard I know is under the same kind of thumb or workload. (except those damn meddling kids)
So we fit in what we can, when we can.
Now if I go all night without sleep its because of noisy baby or some kind of backlog of work to chew through.

>>52416507
You can craft one with less encumbrance, but I don't think you can remove the cumbersome quality.

>>52416507
I don't think so. There's an Armor mod that can increase your brawn though.

>>52416876
Think they're Cumbersome 5
A prosthetic arm is a distinct possibility with a vibro-chainsaw and all it needs is a despair or 2

>>52417014
>>52417064

Alright, so looks like my plan won't work. My fellow PC is a Performer who's looking for more combat options, but sadly the only Performer combat skill is Melee, which doesn't fit his character; he's playing a stage magician, using grenades and smoke projectors, etc. I suggested the vibro-saw, a la the old saw-'em-in-half trick, but apparently that's not in the cards.

What, then, are some ways to use the Melee skill in the style of an old-timey stage magician?

>>52411552
You posted this same stupid question on /co/, and the answer is the same. SW drives cannot accelerate to C in realspace, and we don't even know if they can hit a sizeable fraction of C. Assuming that they could, sensors and weaponry in Star Wars is advanced enough that your RKV is going to be detected in its acceleration phase, intercepted by a hyperspace-using picket, and shot down.

Hyperspace won't work for RKVs because you don't hit a planet in it, just its gravity well, and you do not conserve momentum between real and hyperspace.

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>>52416082
Alderaan was giving money and intelligence to a terrorist organization under arms whose leadership included Separatists and aliens, along with disaffected plutocrats from the Old Republic.

>>52409526

To say nothing of their countries being utterly destroyed, hundreds of thousands of their people being killed, and overall being far weaker countries than they were before they came to power.

I have no idea how the fuck a person can look at 1945 Germany and Italy and think to themselves "Hmm, this seems like a good pathway to take our country on."

>>52417353
Stab someone with hidden weapons?

Do Joker impressions, and make a pencil disappear.

>>52410604
make military friends
we love the Empire almost universally

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>>52414269
>In his defense he earned that star destroyer.
Didn't the fucker paint it pink too?

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>>52417353
>performers can't be good at melee

>>52403482

/m/ has those kinds of arguments fairly regularly where Feddies are argued as terrible American capitalist greedy SOBs and Zeon is the poor, innocent American colonies fightan for muh revolution.

And it goes over about as well as drawing so many analogies without respect to context that you could suspect. Shitshow, shitshow, shitshow.

Better to leave it at the forum door and at least argue in universe, if nothing else.

>>52417869
It's not that we don't get why the skill exists, Mr. Smug Anime Retort, it's just that the specific way he's playing Performer (as an old-timey stage magician) doesn't jive with swordplay. So I'm looking for ways to use Melee that fit with the character he has.

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hey guys. Itsa me, the asshole with the youtube page. So, it's pretty clear to me that you guys have been liking my content less and less (/swg/ guys make up no less than 1/3 of my subscribers). It would just be really helpful to know if I'm making blatant mistakes that are keeping those of you who are subscribed from watching my newer X-wing content.

A-wing podcast coming soon (probably tomorrow).

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>>52417999
My pic is literally a stage performer that's good at melee. You just have to be more creative.

>>52418148
He also has genuine magic powers and throws his cards more often then not.

>>52417999
>>52418192
Stop being a faggot and just suggest to your friend that he uses vibro-knives. Plenty of old timey performers used knives

>>52418267
I'm not >>52418192, but that's actually come up. The only problem is that we don't really have the cash to waste on 500-credit throwables. We're currently waiting to see if the GM will allow the magnetic tether from Keeping the Peace to work over Short range instead of Engaged, in which case throwing vibro-knives will probably be the go-to.

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>>52418192
There are more ways than one to be brutal. Acquire vibroaxe, attach strings.

>>52418580
Magician, not musician.

>>52417628
>1945 germany and italy were weak due to fascism
>not because of a lengthy two-front war, opposing war efforts, bombing runs, supply scarcity due to war, or a naval blockade

>germany didn't go from being bankrupt and tiny in 1926 to the world's foremost power in 1938

Recheck your history.

>>52417532
But Princess Leia, a woman who had spent years lying to the Empire and lied to Vader's face, said they were peaceful, so they must be peaceful! Stop trying to think and be logical about a simple narrative you /pol/tard!!!

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>>52418671
whynotboth.holo

>>52418393

It's like being an archer, just pick them up when you're done.

There are actually throwing knives somewhere in the books, like grenades, but they're like E1 and kind of annoying. There may also be boomerangs and stuff

>>52417532
>>52418687
For anyone still anti-Empire, give this a read.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-case-for-the-empire/article/2540

>>52418740
Problem is the boomerangs are region locked, and the throwing knives don't cost 10 credits a reload like the arrows do.

>>52417999
>swordplay
What about that one where you stick knives and swords into the dude in a barrel?

>>52418790

Yeah, they cost 0 to reload. Your range is short anyway, you walk over to the guy, and get your fucking knife back. Unlike a grenade it doesn't explode when you use it, so unless you're GM is dropping Despairs or something to break them, you just GET IT BACK.

>>52418857
So, you kill a guy with a damage +1 knife, using only one knife, after throwing it?

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>>52418753
>Which makes the rebels--Lucas's heroes--an unimpressive crew of anarchic royals who wreck the galaxy so that Princess Leia can have her tiara back. I'll take the Empire.

Fucking based, and this was in 2002, long before 2016 and the rise of "edgelord fascism" or whatever that one guy said many posts back.

>>52418881

Nah, but they're 65 CR a pop. Find a good negotiator or go to a planet which isn't a backwater, buy a box full. Assuming he doesn't need a lot of kit, he can carry like 5, they're pierce two.

If you want him to be optimally killing people, you're gonna need to forget this "theme" thing, unless he can switch to hiding grenades in a wizard's pouch and throwing them at people while shouting "lightning bolt!"

>>52418966
Just caught up with the thread, magician player here. Legitimately, that grenade thing is what I've been doing, the encumbrance limiter (and guilt of horrible horrible grenade cheese) is the only issue. Aside from, y'know, collateral.

>>52418753
>movie only

trash

>>52418918
>No reason given for the Clone Wars
>The Trade Federation is the Space East India Trade Company with a literal army of droid enforcers who attacked Naboo literally because they were being taxed
Yeah, no. If any group presented as villainous was in the right, it wasn't the fucking Trade Federation.

>>52419016
find a way for him to trap enemies in barrels for he can stab em with vibroswords
>tfw you bought books and those gay fucking proprietary dice but no one wants to play EoE

>>52419016

Hey, it's a tactic.

They're grossly slow an inaccurate but Luma Flares are also pretty cheap to improvise as already having on you for pyro - the sad thing is I'm pretty sure the skill to use is Gunnery.

>>52419085
Yup, I looked those over as an option. I was considering the flare jacket though; that seems like a pretty neat trick to pull you out of a bind.

>>52419046
>EUfag

trash

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>>52419271

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>>52419271
I can't hear you over the sound of my superweapons

>>52418040
Bumping with a link because I figure most of you don't know what I'm talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVTkVr93QpE

>>52419559
Fuck off faggot

>>52402995
>>52403074
See this shit?
This is what I was talking about

>>52419640
They were right. Putting Star Wars in the title does attract shitheads.

>>52418040
Keep doing what you're doing

>>52419723
This.

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>>52419702
But anon, they gotta stick it to those nasty fictional antifascists for not supporting a strong central power headed by a guy who shoots evil lightning and feeds on suffering

Can we please not bring real life politics into this?
It's a fucking fictional universe. Who cares what faction you like.

>>52418918

Course, she cant have her tiara back because the Empire genocided her people and blew up her planet with the tiara on it.

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>>52420135
but me likum the commie-nazis

>>52420162
The people who flip out over people liking the Empire are just as much of an issue.

>>52420346

No one really flips out over people liking the empire.
Among my friends, I've always been the only Rebel, surrounded by adherents of Raith Sienar and his many levels of insanity.
This is fine. Just means that when I play X-Wing or Armada I dont have to fight to play my favoured faction - no one else ever wants to play the Rebellion.

Unironically thinking that the Empire did nothing wrong however, that's a different thing.

>>52414433
Other Empire fan again.

I haven't been called /pol/ for liking aspects of the Empire and not fanboying over the Rebellion like all my mates. Oddly I'm pretty libertarian and small-government RL. Star Wars isn't RL though, and when I look at the Old Republic I see a system completely bogged down by competing voices and bureaucracy that can get little to nothing done. Some folks will say it worked fine, I believe it was so bloated that each voice was simply drowned out in the throng and that a single stronger voice was simply able to get shit done on a level that hadn't been seen in thousands of years. Thrawn has some thoughts on the matter in Choices of One I believe, where he acknowledges readily that the Empire has problems with individual racists and xenophobes making up some of the ranks, and then says that he works within that system because the galaxy needs to be united, a single strong voice without the petty infighting and impossible task of pleasing competing species, because he knows what threats are out there waiting to take advantage of weakness.

The Jedi Order is a whole different topic, but suffice to say I think Jedi can be great, but the Jedi Order goes against their own ideology and corrupts them.

>>52420162
>commie-nazi
The infamous Japanese suicide bomber pilots?

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>>52420135
Freedom Ain’t free. The tree of liberty and freedom gotta be litterd with the blood of Neo-Crusaders. Fenn IRISH Shysa aka “F. S” is not my mandlore. he is Republic statist and probbaly jedi as well :DD. MANDALORE and beskar not mandalore and MEETRA ok. praise cassus.

>>52420346
>>52420483
I like the Empire because they're hilariously evil and incompetent.

I think the main problem comes with people who aren't really arguing about like the Empire as a faction in Star Wars, but trying to rationalize a victim complex for issues unrelated to Star Wars.

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>>52420512
funny

>>52420620

Yeah exactly.
All my friends just fucking love the Empire's aesthetic - and it's a strong fucking aesthetic.
TIEs are a cool series of ships, Star Destroyers are imposing as all hell and are great fun to use in games.
Stormtroopers are a scary and cool thing to deploy against your enemies in the vidya.
The Imperial March is a fantastic goddamn piece of music (and the Resistance March from the new films is a gigantic turd by comparison, what the fuck was Williams doing that entire soundtrack).

I have no issue with that, and no sane person does.

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>>52420346
>>52420483
>no one flips out over the empire

Except for all of the die-hard Rebel fans or people who get their political ideas from reading Wendig's books and having a longstanding subscription to Huffington Post. Have you not seen the last five times in these threads where someone says they like the Empire only to be called a mean nasty bigot fascist who's retarded and evil because he's fascist?

>>52420620
>>52420841
>hilariously evil and incompetent

This is the last (you) you're getting from me.

>>52420960

And here we go.
People who like the empire not because of the actual likable things about them, but because they think that the Empire are the good guys who dindu and are just misunderstood and not evil at all despite all the evil.

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>>52420841
I had an Empire game going a few years back and there was a guy at the table who would always get mad at us for being evil and making bad, but funny, tactical decisions. Eventually my character died in a similar way to Piett and the guy just gets super pissed and nearly yells out if I like the Empire or not. Everyone else including the GM turned to him and said of course they like Star Wars. He played one more session after that but stopped coming overall.

>>52420135

This is why we don't put "Star Wars" in the title, people.

>>52420999
>all the evil

Without including the words 'Alderaan' or 'Tarkin' or 'Fascism', why is the Empire evil?

>>52421081
Please don't continue the cycle

>>52421081
it's an oppressive regime that swept aside all democratic governmental systems underneath it and had solitary galactic rule under one Emperor and his appointed governors.

Also saying
>what's so evil about the Empire besides that clearly evil 2nd in command who annihilated a planet, a culture, and a people on a fucking whim

makes you a clear troll

>>52421081
>Literally a totalitarian state ruled by SITH
>How are they evil, guys?

Done replying to your autistic, edgelording ass.

It's fine to like the Empire, but "Muh Empire wuz good guys, they dinddu nuffin" is retarded and you should feel bad.

>>52421081

Darth Vader orders the burning down of a refugee village to lure out Rebels, the shantytown only existing due to imperial industrial policies seizing local land.

>>52421151
need mo money fo dem superweapon programs

>>52421081

Abrogation of basic personal freedoms of all people in the galaxy, taken to a far greater extent for non-humans based on no actual reasoning other than 'theyre non human', for a start.


Also, I do find it hilarious that you literally have to say "Without mentioning the second most genocidal act shown in the series, try and prove that the Empire is evil."

>>52421081
Treating war heroes like clones like trash

>>52421133
>>52421151
>>52421193
>Alderaan
The planet whose nobility is made up of many members of the Rebel Alliance? The planet who was supplying Rebel agents and military forces with equipment and direct aid? The planet that took support and infrastructure benefits from the Empire while supporting the Rebellion while lying about it? The planet that had among the most powerful defense systems in the galaxy that would've been hellish to assault and take by force? War is hell and Alderaan was aiding the Empire's direct enemy. Get over it.

>>52421157
>seizing local land
Not evil, and Vader's actions don't make the whole Empire evil.

>>52421151
>totalitarianism
>not evil
>Sith
>not evil

Try again.

>>52421193
>more complaining about humanity first

>genocidal

Do you even know what the word 'genocide' means?

>>52421256
Clones were an expendable asset, nothing more, and they weren't "treated like trash".

>>52421114
The cycle of angry Imperial fanboys and angry Rebel fanboys having fandom civil wars will never end.

>>52421278
War never changes.

>>52411336

Holy shit, this is incredible. Please tell us more!

>>52421278
>Clones were an expendable asset, nothing more, and they weren't "treated like trash".

Whats it with you guys and not seeing obvious real world connections? They got treated like shit despite the Empire thanking them as heroes, much like how real veterans get shit on.

>>52421257
>Do you even know what the word 'genocide' means?

"the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group."

So, the deliberate killing of an entire planet, and the billions of people who live on it, who make up a distinct nation and ethnic group, leaving a straggling few thousand survivors spread across the galaxy. This somehow DOESNT sound like genocide to you?


>>52421257
>nobility made up many rebels
Films only confirm Leia and Bail as rebels.
Films dont confirm Alderaan as supplying Rebel Agents and military forces with equipment or direct aid.
Nothing anywhere confirmes that Alderaan takes benefits from the Empire whilst supporting the rebellion.
Nothing anywhere says that Alderaan has the most powerful defences in the galaxy.

Even if all the above was true, by A New Hope, going by the intro crawl, the Rebels have fought ONE major victory. A single victory. Against an entire galaxy spanning empire, 20 years into its existence.

Also if you want to pull in EU stuff to support just how ebil Alderaan was, you're just onto a loser here considering the number of fucked up things the Empire does in the books.


>>52421278
All of this retarded shitposting aside, it did always bug me how the Jedi were portrayed as cherishing life, but in the Clone Wars series they never seem to bat much of an eyelid at the death of a bunch of clones. They basically just treat them like droids, which never sat right with me. Definitely doesnt sound like jedi, though I figure that's probably down to Lucas being a hack.

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>>52420841
Too bad the Rebels didn't start out looking like they did in Rogue One. More people would like them since they can look more realistic.

>>52421420

Fucking hell man I loved the Rebel aesthetics in Rogue One.

That said, I always loved the pilot aesthetics from Ep4 and 5, too, and then the commandos on Endor have some top style.
Slightly silly helmets, but i mean no one's perfect.

>>52421375
>the Rebels only won a single victory so the Empire should stop fighting them!
>the Rebels stole plans for a space station allowing them to destroy said space station and potentially build their own to combat us but we're much stronger and they only won once so it's okay

I bet if an enemy military came in and occupied one of your nation's cities out of nowhere, you would say "Nah, we shouldn't fight them. They only took one city and we have tons. Let 'em go!"

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>>52415451

>>52415008

And all those pesky uncivilized rebels bit it in the same film they are featured instead of being allowed to slink off and be the rebel beatstick used against the most heinous empire soldiers.

>>52421385
It's also strange that the Jedi supposedly teach self-control and to not kill unless absolutely necessary. Obi-Wan doesn't even kill someone who pulls a blaster on him/Luke. But Yoda gets told he'll be detained by Clone Troopers and suddenly starts bouncing around chopping their heads off without hesitation.

>>52421454

If a rebel force attacked a single outpost of my country and won, and managed to get their hands on schematics of a superweapon we'd built, I would be on the streets fucking protesting if my government decided to nuke their country for it.

>>52421257

Well, I'm an American, so seizing of land without proper compensation by the government is unconstitutional - which means it's pretty strongly against my moral compass.

You'll probably try and tell me the state exists to suit itself so it can do whatever the fuck it wants, but that's dirty commie talk.

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>>52421495
They violated the NAP

>>52421495
>he'll be detained
Ah yes, just like how the other clones "detained" the other jedi

>>52421454
The rebellion isn't another country coming to steal your shit. They spend their time sending relief to planets fucked by the Empire. Sometimes the planet itself forms it's own rebel cell.

Also if you're raising that point, the Empire invaded and fucked over neutral worlds to steal their resources.

>>52421081
>Legends
Zsinj, Isard, Thrawn, Palpatine, Sith, the post-Endor Coruscant massacres, the state-sponsored enslavement of Wookiees, the Dantooine massacre, the poisoning of Honoghr, mass executions and purges of the Imperial officer corps shortly after 66, the Firrereo genocide, the Ettam massacre, the Sulon massacre.

>Canon
The Dhen-Moh Genocides (Twilight Company), the near-genocide of the Lasat, the sterilization of Geonosis (Okay, the Geonosians were pricks, but still)

>>52421489

Yeah, that's a fair point, but its still the first time we've actually seen the Rebels with shades of grey and the actual moral cost of running an insurgency against the Empire.
I fucking loved it man, give me more of that delicious depth.

It sucks that the ones we're introduced to literally all died, yeah, but at the same time it seems fair to extrapolate outwards and say that the trend continues across the Rebellion as a whole.

>>52421495
Yeah exactly, though I mean if youre talking about RotS he definitely wasnt about to be detained.

There's all sorts of little bits of the Clone Wars series that just did not sit right with me with regards to how they portray Jedi and how Lucas was desperate to tell us Jedi behaved.
Like, there's an episode on...Geonosis I think? I cant quite remember. Either way, they engage this assault and Anakin is revelling in getting more droid kills than the others, and then Ki Adi Mundi is like "Actually I got more than you, young Skywalker - what do I win?"
And yeah, it's an entertaining moment and its there to try and make him seem more personable, I get that.
But at the same time, both attacks went horribly badly and they lost a horrendous number of clones, and theyre just comparing kill scores.

It's one thing for Legolas and Gimli to do it in LotR, but for Jedi who are specifcally meant to cherish life - and would feel those deaths through the force - to do it whilst standing amongst the death and carnage seemed fucking weird to me.

>>52421420

I really liked the A-300 blaster, and just realized Eskro Casrich has a unique gun... not a DH-17