/mtg/ - Legacy General

I think we've talked this do death, but:
>Squirrel Nest
Harmless relic
>Mind Twist
Requires too much to be good, though I'd like to see it in Nic Fit
>Frantic Search
Slightly dangerous, but probably sace enough, notably helps High Tide

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I am currently building into D&T but I'm worried that there will be too many D&T players in general once I'm done due to the fact that everything is off RL and eventually port will be reprinted. I don't want the influx to result in people metaing for D&T hard. Last 32 man legacy event I did I fought 2 D&T already so its worrying. What should I do /tg/?

I'd like to see some of the enablers come off the banned list personally.

>Safe Tier
Earthcraft, Mindtwist

Earthcraft would give enchantress pillow fort type decks a combo wincon, which might make the deck better than tier 4/5. Mindtwist is almost always going to be a worse Hymn in most decks with Nic Fit and big mana decks being the exception, so its probably fine.

>Probably OK Tier
Frantic Search, Hermit Druid

I'm always leery of free/cost reducing spell, they have been historically very broken (see delve). However I think almost no current decks would want Frantic Search with the exception of Spiral/Reset Tide. Hermite druid is a little more concerning as it's basically a one card combo. I could see it enabling a PSI style deck but would probably be about the same power level, so it should be safe in theory.

>I might break Legacy Tier
Necropotence
Yawgmoth's Bargain

I've got a hard on for this card because of when I started playing MTG. It's just a blast to play with and using it optimally in a given deck is extremely difficult. However trading life for cards 1:1 is probably still too good for legacy and would lead to overpowered degenerate spell based combo decks. Same arguments apply to Bargain with the caveat that it's probably safer due to the 4BB casting cost.

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>>52356222
Hope that people around you don't get sick of playing against D&T. My meta has gotten tired of the deck existing and is actively packing hate for it. Every deck at my shop is packing Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemental, Kozileks Return's, etc. When people come prepared for D&T there is little it can do to fight back. you just going to have to hope that it remains at a low enough level that it's not actively being gunned for. If it is, see pic.

>>52356222
Git gud at the mirror. Though I wouldn't be too worried unless Wotc decide that they need to print a metric shitton of good D&T cards... again

>>52356248
Agree on the Safe+Probably OK, though I would say Frantic Search is definitely in the Safe category. With the last two... no, definitely not. Necropotence as a 4-of is far too powerful for the format, and Bargain is as well - since the infinitely shitter version is still a very much playable card. The fact that they can both be powered out so easily with Rituals makes them extremely dangerous.

I argued in the last thread that Mind's Desire however, would be a safe unban; and I'm going to stick with that. The other one worth considering is Flash, given the errata change to how it works - which disables the Hulk combo, I'm not seeing a reason the card is dangerous anymore.

>>52356392
Hulk+Flash still works unless I'm missing something.

>Current oracle text:
You may put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield. If you do, sacrifice it unless you pay its mana cost reduced by up to 2.

>Relevant ruling:
10/1/2009: If you choose not to pay, the creature is sacrificed immediately. No player will get priority in between the creature entering the battlefield and being sacrificed. Sacrificing the creature this way will trigger any abilities that trigger when a creature leaves the battlefield.

As far as I can tell it would still enable the Hulk+Flash combo, which is something that I think legacy is good with never seeing again.

>>52356629
Huh. I had remembered hearing somewhere that it now requires paying the reduced cost prior to the ETB but maybe I'm miss-remembering something or just retarded.

Yeah if it still works as before that card can most certainly never see the light of day again; FlashHulk was some serious cancer shit.

Goblin Recruiter is only banned for time constraints right?

mana drain could probably come off safely

although it's not something I expect they will ever do, unless it's in conjunction with a reprint

I dream of the day I can play Survival again.

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>>52358112

>>52358146
I know about the combo, but the combo itself doesn't seem that strong, just how long it takes to stack your deck in such a way that you can cast the whole thing

>>52355002
>Thoughts on any potential Unbannings you would like to see and why?
Unban baghdad.
Stop dredgephobia.

>>52358208
You only stack something like 16 cards. Once you know what you're going for, you dig the cards out and order them in a matter of seconds.

>>52356392
As an ANT player, I can attest to the fact that 4UU is a very awkward mana total to get to without, say, LED. Which also means I'm casting mind's desire from my graveyard. It's doable but a mind's desire combo deck would have to build around that, and probably not play ad naus.

>>52358250

>tfw everybody despises dredge even though wotc channeled their collective hateboner into creating tons of cheap, efficient ways of cucking the deck
>tfw it usually takes at least two turns to start going off and by then one of many hate cards are usually found

But turn 1 iona/griselbrand/sire with chancellor protection is fine, nothing degenerate about that.

>>52358322
Dredge is a shitter spotter, if you answer to "Is dredge OP" with anything but "It's a meme-deck, always has been if you lose to dredge outside of vintage drink bleach and KYS", anything you say after that should be ignored.

>>52358351
>He's still afraid of the boogieman
You're a little baby.
Let the format burn.

>>52358250
You mean port Vintage Dredge, the deck that demands 4-6 sideboard slots dedicated to it if you want to have a decent match up, into legacy? I really hope your kidding anon

>>52358370
C'mon anon, what is the wrost that can happen?! Don't be so dredgephobic!
baghdadx4 ledx4

>>52356680
I think you got your time lines messed up senpai. It recieved an erratum as you described, then wizards decided to remove power level errata and errata that changed cards from the written, intended functionality. Then hulk got printed and, errataless, it broke everything and was promptly banned.

>>52358340
Played against manaless dredge last night on MTGO. Lost game 1, thought I was gonna have to kill myself in disgrace. Won games 2 and 3 cause I'm not a shitter. Don't leave home without grave hate folks.

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So I keep tinkering with my Pox deck, and the new spicy tech I'm going to try out is Liliana Vess. My reasoning: most of my games drag out a long period of time, so getting to 5 mana has not been a problem. What has been a problem is getting finishers/answers late game when I need them. Vess can keep pressure by attacking the opponent's hand, but also gives me the option of a mana-free tutor (two activations just from her starting loyalty). The biggest issue is she can't protect herself, but Pox is pretty good at keeping the board clear or having recurrable chump blockers.

I'm going to replace the Raven's Crime/Dakmor Salvage mini-combo with her, as I've never managed to get the combo in the graveyard at the same time (or if I have, the opponent had graveyard hate to kill it).

>>52360529
just get racks.

>>52360693

But sir, I already have racks

>>52360748
you have been living wrong for so long.

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>>52360793

>>52360529
I think I'm going to try a japanese pox reanimator list. Have a combo finish instead of trying to grind. Just need to pick of some grisles, and entombs.

>>52358735
Yeah I could have sworn they had gone back and re-errata'd the un-errata that they gave to the errata but apparently I'm just old and growing senile.

>>52358322
Counters can interact with Reanimator which is why it's a strategy that is exclusive to Legacy. Counters cannot interact with Bazaar. While in terms of speed, it's a deck that is actually going to kill you quicker than Reanimator. Bazaar is fucking insanely busted.

>>52358121
Mana Drain MIGHT be too good. Drain->Jace is a lot stronger in Legacy than it is in Vintage as a line of play. So while the card is borderline unplayable trash in Vintage, it would likely warp Legacy into even more Uxx Control dominance... which well, I think we are all already rightfully sick of.

Even Drain->Miracle'd Entreat would be some dumb shit.

>>52356248
I don't think hermit Druid is ok at all. Yes you have to untap with him but he is only 2 mana and the deckbuilding requirements are almost non-existent compared to undercity informer and balustrade spy. I have played with him in competitive games of edh, which plays fairly similarly to legacy, and he is absolutely broken, since you can still build a normal deck but then just have a must-answer, "I win" creature

>>52355002
Is mystical tutor too good? Would it make combo and miracles too strong? The rules are a little different now since when it was banned you could crack leds in your upkeep to pay for a spell in your draw step.

If they unban Mind Twist then rev up those Loxodon Smiters, Wilt Leaf Lieges and Obstinate Baloths.

>>52362600

As a Nic Fit player I could not want this more

How good is Stoneblade at the moment?

t. Modern baby

>>52364016
It's a fair deck. Fair decks come and go in terms of meta share in cyclical waves but are almost never BAD.

>>52366065
What's the consensus on the creature heavy version versus the brainstorm/Snapcaster one?

>>52364016
I think the best stoneblade deck right now is Death and Taxes. That said, normal ass stoneblade decks can certainly take down a tournament. I think any variant could be fine if you're prepared for the meta.

>>52366725
most creature heavy decks are just on their hands and knees begging miracles to fuck them harder.

terminus is some bullshit. RIP maverick

>>52366725
Well according to mtggoldfish the most popular one right now is the 4 color list (bant splashing black for drs and decay) with hierarchs, leovolds, and 4 tnn. So if you were to build a stoneblade variant, I would base the list off of that

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>>52355002
>see the Eldrazi list in the top 5 breakdown
>2x Shauku, Endbringer
Someone explain this, I'm having a breakdown

>>52369957
It's almost certainly the eldrazi Endbringer, not Shauku, Endbringer. It was probably a problem with somebody entering a decklist and not paying attention.

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how do I vintage /tg/?

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>>52370144
this is how I vintage

>>52356222
the great thing about d&t is that it's a fair deck with a lot of play and a high skillcap. you can just beat most decks if you're a good player regardless of people metagaming to beat you.

>>52372881
I've had the opposite experience actually. Metagaming pushed D&T out of my shop almost completely (people still try it occasionally, yielding poor to lackluster results); All the black and red decks just shit all over it with Massacre/Dread of Night/Kozilek's Return/Sudden Demise, not to mention there is a lot of Golgari Charm running around to hit TNN that also fucks D&T royally. Also, people started playing faster combo decks to go under D&T (TES/BR Reanimator, etc). The deck is actually not that hard to hate out and most decks can have positive to very positive games 2+ against it if they are willing to devote a bit of sideboard space to hating on D&T or having multiple use cards that incidentally hit it (Golgari Charm, Pithing Needle, Zealous Persecution come to mind as multi use). I will give the caveat that my local meta is a bit weird, there is no delver and multiple Blood Moon/Stompy type decks, a good bit of Noble BUG, a reasonable smattering of fast combo, some random jank like Nic Fit and Spirit Blade, and Miracles once in a blue moon. Point is I have appropriate hate in my sideboards in Big Red, TES, and UBW Landstill and I very rarely drop games against D&T, I've really never understood why people have trouble with it outside of specific nightmare matchups (Sneak and Show vs D&T). My shop went from 3 regular D&T players after conspiracy 2 to none due to people dedicating a bit of sideboard space to beating it. Since the beginning of the year no D&T list has done better than 2-3 at my LGS as far as I can recall.

>>52373175
That's sort a universal problem with smaller/local metagames, they become obnoxiously inbred. Like you said, if there is no Delver/Miracles than the metagame is less warped around those two decks. So people can devote more of their sideboard space and maybe even maindeck to beating D&T.

Online though or at larger events, the deck is great assuming you know how to pilot it. Like vs. B/R, just play 3-4x Surgical Extractions in your board and if you want to go even deeper; Leylines of Sanctity.

You still lose game 1 almost guaranteed but that is the nature of that deck for anyone not packing Force of Wills - and even they often aren't enough.

vs. Dread/Massacre, play SoL&S untop of the usual SoI&F. I feel like that deck can very much adapt to the hate being presented at it. Much like Miracles, D&T is this sort of cockroach that just never dies. And it's cards are actually quite powerful....

>>52373521
True, larger metas cause sideboards to be spread very thin, making it harder to hate out specific decks in general. However, D&T has recently had a lot of metagame share in paper (I confess to being completely ignorant of the online meta as I only play in paper); For instance unless you lump all the delver variants together it's the most popular "aggro" deck according to recent paper tournament results, which is leading to people actually starting to properly dedicate enough sideboard hate against it. another issue is the cards that are good against D&T (especially the red cards) are often good against several other decks (Elves, Delver, Maverick, Noble BUG come to mind), so it's not like your often not sacrificing sideboard space in a larger meta if you build correctly. Also, as far am my meta goes, the Miracles decks exist (there are 3 built if I remember correctly), but they are played less frequently than the other decks that I listed. It's actually pretty annoying to have to keep hate for miracles in my SB in case it gets played on a given week. I wouldn't say anyone has gone as far as maindeck hate to beat D&T in my meta, 2-4 cards in the SB that are good against D&T/Hatebear/Swarm strategies seem to be the norm.

>You still lose game 1 almost guaranteed but that is the nature of that deck for anyone not packing Force of Wills
This I agree completely, a lot of D&T's worst matchups are fast combo were stack based interaction is often required.

>Much like Miracles, D&T is this sort of cockroach that just never dies
I would disagree here. Miracles has been the top deck in legacy for ages. Literally every sideboard has to have a good plan against miracles due to how pervasive it is. D&T sees nowhere near the amount of hate that miracles does and doesn't have countermagic to stop the relevant hate cards from resolving. D&T is MUCH more susceptible to hate than Miracles in my opinion.

>>52373887
>I would disagree here. Miracles has been the top deck in legacy for ages. Literally every sideboard has to have a good plan against miracles due to how pervasive it is. D&T sees nowhere near the amount of hate that miracles does and doesn't have countermagic to stop the relevant hate cards from resolving. D&T is MUCH more susceptible to hate than Miracles in my opinion.

Yeah I definitely agree with that, hating out Miracles with sideboard cards is definitely harder since the general gameplan for the deck is well... so difficult. However, if you metagame heavily against it; you can definitely make Miracles hate life. MUDpost/12post and BUG if they aren't on the trendy Predict lists are just godawful matchups. As is Food Chain. In fact, Food Chain is probably the worst matchup since you can't even cheese them out consistently with B2B/Moon or Mentor.

What I meant is more that these are two of the decks that I think can work around what the meta is like and what sort of hate they are facing better than a lot of others.

Re:Online vs. Paper
D&T is definitely more prominent in Paper; fucking Rishadan Ports are pricy as all hell on Modo. Deck is pretty common on XMage though.

I actually find if your deck can play EE in the main right now for any conceivable reason, you really should. Card does work vs. Aggro strats while managing to fuck with random annoying shit. EE is so goddamn good.

>>52373994
Yeah, I've been noticing an increase in EE's being played, card is good against a wide swath of the field and answers TNN cleanly to boot. Makes me think twice when making goblins with TES lol.

>>52370995
>Only 1 anti-grave card

>>52373521
welp, guess i don't have to answer >>52373175

> just play 3-4x Surgical Extractions in your board
i prefer faerie macabre but live your dream

Dead format
Dead thread

I opened 2 Modern Masters 2017 & Eldritch Moon Boxes, most cards will be given away!
https://youtu.be/HAG1FnR4ll4

>>52374103
there's 2 Surgicals and a Crypt, and it's a combo deck. Racing Dredge is a valid plan.

>>52375459
Extraction just annoys dredge.

>>52375748
if all you need is a speed bump extraction is just fine

>>52375748
>First Bridge hits Graveyard
>Extraction it in response

That slows down Dredge by far more than a speed-bump. I mean I would go so far as to say if your deck can consistently achieve turn 1/turn 2 kills; you should run zero Anti-Dredge in the sideboard since it's not going to be relevant.

Like as PO, it just doesn't make sense to devote precious Sideboard slots to Dredge when Blue decks require 5-6 slots and Shops requires well... 9-10. I do have a miser Surgical in the list but that's only because it can come in against a few other decks - while Crypt/Leyline are mono-dredge. Cage would be worth consideration but it's been 10,000 years since I've seen Oath.

>>52375970
My shitty kobold clamp deck also has sort-of built in dredge hate because you can clamp a nigga and any bridges in their grave go away.

>>52376078
If you're clamping a nigga you should be nearly about to go.

>>52376128
So I haven't played the deck a ton yet but I've found that a lot of the time when I clamp a nigga it's actually just for card advantage purposes. Games tend to be won on the back of the broken ass bombs like necro/bargain/wheel/will more than chaining clamp activiations.

What is the best gimmicky Legacy deck you actually admire when people play against you?

>>52377386
4horseman

>>52377386
fluctuator. god bless them for trying. it's like seeing the downs kid try his best at sports and all you can do is smile and tell him good job.

>>52370995
>kobold clamp with the possibility of carnival of souls
that was my deck in 2002. Is it somewhat viable in vintage? I'd play the shit out of it if it is.

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Any good cards in Modern Masters 2017 that should be picked up for Legacy, before they hike in price?

>>52379407
Lili, snaps? All the fetches

>>52378729
Short answer: no 8===>

Long answer: I haven't played it a ton. It would be better with power. But it's fun and I win some games. You could play it mono black too, so no need for dual lands. If you really want to play storm, don't have power, and can't use proxies, it's probably your best bet.

4-2 today at a local tournament.
Rattled off 4 wins vs TES, Manaless Dredge, Burn, and Pox, then lost to Burn and Bug Delver. Got a lot of turn 2 wins. Was running hot.

>>52380124
this. Preorderd lillies at 59, now they are at 67

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>>52384611
>paying 60 bucks for lili
>instead of buying chink fakes
>Acting like it's a good pricetag

Can we /deckpics/?

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>>52384964
>implying I didnt
>implying i didnt try 2 different ones
>implying anyone makes a good lili where the set symbol isint fucked.
China fakes have their place, but their lili is to risky imo

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>>52385543
sure anon

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>>52385543
My most recent

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>>52385543
My current list.

>>52355002
POST LISTS FOR THE CURE
IT'S HILARIOUSLY DUMB AND EFFECTIVE

>>52387169
>white borders
REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>52387169
Those poor leds...

>>52387169
>Pink bordered Emrakul
I dig it

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>>52387412
You, sir know how to lay out a deck.

>>52387169
I love. How do?

>>52386088
kys

what is good and in esper colors

>>52389926
If your looking for an established deck, UWb stoneblade is decent. If your looking for something spicy, Esper Landstill is a thing.

I play Miracles!

>>52388424
Lovely infect deck. Have considered moving into legacy after the probe modern ban. How do you find infect holds up?

>>52356248
Hermit Druid cannot ever come off the list. It's the most broken creature ever printed.

>>52387169
If you owned black border duals, would you white border them?

>>52387497
I've been using a pretty stock g/b list. Spirit guides, lotus petals, chalice, berserk, etc. Dark Confidant is hella good, despite running numerous 4 drops. However, I've found it's really not consistent. You either get the drop on your opponent and deal 30 damage on turn 2-3, or they have STP or you draw half of what you need. Are lists running white better?

>>52391198
My friends and I joke and say that's the next step in my quest, but I wouldn't do it. If I had black bordered duals I'd sell them and buy more white bordered duals. There is a limit to my madness.

>>52391170
Hermit is borked because he is a creature.
He'd be """""fine""""" in a freature heavy enviroment where people pack tons of removal.

Fine here means "cancerous little memetic shit" not "balanced".

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>>52387412
>>52387169
I approve of your choice of decks, had it not been for BR reanimator more or less taking over my LGS I'd still be playing with C.rit and PiF main. My project of Foil, signed, German is moving forward, haven't gotten anything new in a while though, still waiting for my AdN to return from a group signing.
Faerie Macabre should be changed into Decays before next Wednesday-Legacy.

>>52391540
That ability will never be "fine".

>>52391589
It'd be fine on standard or pauper.

>>52388424
why you gotta hate on 12post anon?

>>52391587
Nice telemin performance in the side. I assume that's because of all the reanimator in your meta?

I've started trying to foil out my deck. Unfortunately Doomsday itself has never been printed as a foil. Also thinking about getting more cards signed. So far only trop and bayou are signed.

>>52392219
I was under the impression Telemin Performance was to instawin vs creatureless decks via mill.

What's the verdict on 4c Loam? Seems like a fun deck with a good toolbox.

>>52396197
It can steal one of Reanimator's targets too

>>52391587
What's that card in the side between Massacre and Grapeshot?

>>52396257
Looks like Past in Flames

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>>52392162
We must always be vigilant on our journey to rid the world of jankness and Scrubsurdity.

>>52390951
Bretty good anon, plays the control, tempo and aggro game when it needs to.

What do you think the odds are we get a pushed BW Embalm creature that would be playable in a Stoneblade deck? Seems like Embalm fills a niche similar to Lingering Souls but the "flashback" isn't counterable.

>>52396469
I would like that. I'd honestly like them to throw some bones for us legacy hounds more often

>>52396469
>pushed BW
GW or GB 100% at <3 CMC

>>52396469
the good thing about souls is that each hlaf puts TWO flying threats that can carry equipment. Unless the embalm guy also brings multiple evasive creatures on both sides, its not going to be as good

>>52396442
>old border noble hierarch
wut

>>52396442
>implying jankness and Scrubsurdity arnt a main reason to play legacy.

>>52399095
Judge Promos

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It's habbening!

>>52401382

>not buying judge edition elesh

It's like you don't love her.

>>52401440
OH MY GOD NORN JUST LET IT GO IT WAS A ONE TIME THING

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>>52401487
>I'm with chancellor now

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>>52401859
>not sticking with the purest toilet meat waifu

>>52401382
>>52401440
>>52401859
>>52402935
Where your wafiu belongs.

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>>52403168
FUCKING SHIT COCK FUCK ASS! forgot the pic.......

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>>52403184
you're an angry elf, aren't you?

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>>52403452
not quite

>>52403517
>swag titan
more like fag titan

Anyone have some spicy Spanish inquisition lists? Like stuff that isn't 99% normal?

>>52404681
almost nothing about SI is normal, it runs draw 4s and 0 drop dudes.

>>52404681
you could play SITES. Something like
2 Tendrils of Agony
3 Empty the Warrens
2 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
3 Cruel Bargain
4 Infernal Contract
4 Crimson Kobolds
3 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
with an appropriate wishboard
1 Tendrils
1 Empty
1 Cruel Bargain
12 Whatever the fuck

>>52405789
This looks like it may indeed be worse than nourishing lich

>>52406605
I don't think its any worse than normal SI. it trades some speed for stability. plays like 16 business spells. That can't be all bad.

>>52405789
Kinda reminds me of a more all in version of TES actually

>>52405789
I might be keen on this of I didn't have to use Culling the Weak. I can't stand running shitty creatures to enable it.

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I'm brewing a Burn deck. I'd like it to be monoR along these lines:
4 Goblin Guides
2 Grim Lavamancers
4 Eidolons of the Great Revel

2 Sulfuric Vortices
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
4 Flame Rift
16 Pick 2 out of {Chain, Lightning, Bolt, Rift}
8-10 Fetchlands
10-12 Mountains
but I've seen some people playing shit cards like Leyline of Sanctity or Chill which would be quite bothering with this deck. A Circle of Protection would be even worse considering the quantity of self-damage the deck contains.

I hesitate between two things:
- splashing white for Wear//Tear that can break an enchantment (and maybe Deflecting Palm and/or Lightning Helix), maybe Orim's Chant? This would be the expensive way, and would make me vulnerable to Price of Progress (wouldn't that be ironic).
- siding in Flaring Pain x2-3 in case someone may put a CoP in, or count on the creatures and mirror damage to go around Leyline? maybe remove the fetchlands and side in Ankh of Mishra? This would be cheaper.

What do you think? Is there another way?

>>52409633
If you cut the kobold/culling package it opens 11 slots. Could try 4 rite of flame, 4 probe, 3 therapy in those slots. Probe isn't great with draw4's but I can't think of anything better.

>>52409772
Or maybe like 3 probe, 2 therapy, 4 rite, 2 lands.

>>52409743
You seem a little low on the creature end of things, most burn decks are running 12-15. I'd consider Monastery swift spear over Grim Lavamancer, Swiftspear is just pure efficiency. You could splash white in the side to try to deal with hateful enchantments but I don't know how much I like that plan, you'd have to have several slots dedicated in the side due to having no cantrips to help find them. I also wouldn't be too worried about Leyline/CoP, the are not exactly commonly played cards in legacy, I'd be far more worried about artifacts like Chalice and 3ball.

>>52409743
>>52409909
This, unless almost everyone in your meta is playing burn, you probably arnt gonna see any dedicated hate, and most of it will be either cross over stuff to deal with storm, or normal turn 1 chalice for 1 decks. Sideing in a dual or even a basic is bad. It makes their wastelands live, and opens you up to stifle. Siding in a basic just gives you not burn mana. ONe of burns strengths is consistency and sturdiness. IE not caring about kill spells and wasteland. You should be more worried about artifacts, and red has a ton of hate for that. You can run as much or as little creatures as you want. You get more consistant damage with creatures, but their removal becomes live. That being said, I think eidolon is a must in all burn decks. Lavamancer is fine as a 2 of if you want to be a little rounded. It really just depends on how much you care about creatures and getting rid of them. Im also noticing a lack of price of progress. You should run it as a 4 of, as it can easily btfo most legacy decks.

>>52410273
>also noticing a lack of price of progress
I cant read and am actually retarded.

>>52410288
Maybe I should play 8 of them.

OK guys, thanks for the advice
>>52409909
I could put the Swiftspears in. That would make me even more sensitive to Chalice for 1 tho. Indeed this would be the real threat to my deck. I think I'd side Smash to Smithereens.
This rises another question: what to remove? I'm thinking of Flame Rift. But I'm not even sure it belongs in the deck, basically:
- Flame Rift deals 4 to the opponent without targeting, so it's cool and with Fireblast makes it possible to deal 8 with 2 mana. But won't save me from dying if I topdeck it.
- Searing Blaze is 3+3 dmg, and are the reason for the fetchlands along with Lavamancer.
- Searing Blood is 2+3 and needs a creature, but doesn't target the player. Could go around some shit effects like Leyline or Chalice for 1.
Opinions?

>>52410273
My "local" meta is D&T, 3x Eldrazi, Bg control basically, and a lot of graveyard hate. I actually prepare for a "big" tournament, the last one I attended had a lot of BUG, Show & Tell, Miracles and Eldrazi, some ANT, MBC and RWburn. I went with TurboStasis for shits and giggles, got lots of shit, very few giggles.
I agree with the only-basic lands part, as Wasteland (and Rishadan Port) are a pain in the ass. But I don't think that 10 or 15 creatures would change anything regarding their kill...
Side (almost rhetorical) question: Vexing Devil maybe?

>>52412259
Ah yes, one of the eternal questions of burn and flame rift. I run rift and love it. The idea is that you are doing atleast 3 every turn, so unless some dumb shit happens, you should ALWAYS be in the life lead and not care about your life. Kinda the same idea with guide. Guides effect if fucking awful and really bad, it gives them land AND removes like half of their dead draws. BUT, because your deck is so fast, they should be dead before that starts to matter. A lot of lists run rift, a lot don't. I think its always been good, and now I think its even better with callice decks on the rise.

>>52412259
vex devil is another shit stirrer in these parts. He can work fine, but its not optimal, but he also isn't shit. 4 damage for 1 mana is good. And if they don't have any removal for him 99% of the time they WILL take the 4. That being said you will NEVER swing with him, because if they let him stick, he WILL eat removal. But that also being said, better he eat removal than eidolon. So he can work fine. Just keep in mind its a card that you cant top deck and win with, so that in and of itself hurts the deck a bit.

>>52375970

Crypt and Leyline are also solid against TPS; turns off YawgWill and spell mastery on that 5-mana tutor

>>52412523
Vexing devil is a browbeat-tier shit stirrer around here. There are just better cards for legacy burn. The main reason I think it's bad is because it's such a dreadful topdeck.

favourite ANT matchup?

>>52416500
Show and tell can be pretty fun. I also enjoy Elves.

>>52416500
I like the miracles matchup

Amonkhet Masterpieces look terrible.

>>52355002
>Unbans

Who fucking cares
Ban top or bust

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Should I start playing this game? I don't know anything about it, really. The art and flavour text is real neato, the game seems not terrible after my arduous minutes or even hour of research.

But really, I have no idea. I don't even know if this is the right /mtg/ thread to ask.

>>52419934
You picked the wrong moment to ask this question, a bad happening is happening. Ask again in a few days.

I find it fun.

>>52419180
Lol not going to happen.

>>52419180
No. Shame on you.

>>52419934
Yes, join us. However you are a long way from joining this thread. Wait till your tired and jaded with a lot of cash burning a hole in your pockets.

>>52419053
I think they look dope.

>>52419053
They look like fucking yugioh cards

>>52419053
I want to like them. Maybe they'll grow on me. Dark rit looks dumb though.

>>52422403
Fuck now I need to get those rits. Mind twist looks sick too.

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>>52422275
>yugioh cards

>>52419934
If you start in the format, like i did, be prepared to be blown the fuck up constantly when you start. and start getting into the mind set thatr 20-30$ is really cheap fro good cardboard.

>>52422720
Dude, I'm definitely nabbing a mind twist or four. After the initial shock, I think I like this border experiment.

can esper stoneblade beat miracles

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>>52426029
Sure, it's going to be an uphill battle game one though; This is one of those matchups were your sideboard is going to be very important. Make sure you have some threats that miracles has trouble with like some creature making planeswalkers ex. Elspeth, Knight Errant, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, or Nahiri, the Lithomancer. Hateful Permanents like Pithing Needle or Meddling Mage can also be great in this matchup. Cards like Disenchant to try and attack Counterbalance or a top in response to a fetchland activation feel pretty good. I've also seen Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver brought in against Miracles, The +2 causing them to mill three makes it so that they can't float stuff on top of their library and the -x can steal Mentors to beat on them without committing your own creature to the board.

>>52419934
Head on over to the Standard or EDH/Commander thread probably, unless you can find an MTG General. Legacy is just where good money goes to die.

I have been conscripted by some fellows at my lgs to be the legacy component for a ssg team constructed thing on may 20th. Any of you gents planning to attend?

Some of you guys are alright. Don't go to the modern thread today.

>>52428854
>Don't go to the modern thread today
>today
>to
>day
I think you misspelled "ever"

>>52428937
kek

>>52409909
OK so my hatred should be focused on artifacts... but thinking of the global current metagame in legacy, I have the feeling that Counterbalance is going to be a nightmare for my burn deck. Is there a way of getting rid of it? do you think 4 pyroblast/REB would be enough?
If I can break Top, that's a bit better already, but they still have Brainstorm/Ponder(/Preordain) to get what they want...

>>52412410
The issue with Flame Rift is that you deal yourself 6 dmg if you happen to have an Eidolon on the board. So this can be a shit topdeck quite often actually...

>>52429146
If miracles resolves counterbalance+top against you when your playing burn your most likely not going to be able to remove it due to it countering any removal you throw at it. Your best bet is creature beats, Sulfuric Vortex, Eidolon, and Exquisite Firecraft to uncounterably burn them out. Burn will lose most game ones against miracle due to Counterbalance and have a better shot game two, but its tough.

>>52422275
Fuck off YGO has better designs that those atrocities.

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>>52428937
ehhh, I went there to see some spoilers. Theese new master pices look like fucking garbage. Reminds me of pic. I actually had to sit and stare at thees new ones for like 4 minutes to figure out what in the actual fuck they said.

>>52429903
I guess I'm the obly one who actually likes these monstrosities.

>>52431901

You'd better start white-bordering them when they hit shelves.

>>52432364
>>52432364
They look tough to white border and if they have the same foiling as masterpieces it's not really possible.

You going to scg Worcester? Anyone else going?

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>Legacy staple reprints
>Pajeet border

How important is Vial to DnT?

Do Gideon AoZ, Elspeth Knight or Elspeth Sun see any legacy play?

>>52435118
>>Legacy staple reprints
that are/are going to be the same price on the secondary market, thereby missing the point of a reprint.

>>52435253

Vial is crucial.

Regarding Gideon and the Elspeths, none of those cards see play, really; most walkers aren't fast enough or impactful enough to be worth your while. There are two obvious exceptions and Garruk Relentless sees a bit of play, but generally I don't think you want to be running walkers.

>>52435382
worth it sometimes just for the new art

Going to locals tonight. I have a choice between burn, green 12post, and pox with no side. wat do?

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What's that one card that you wish you could just remove from the game?

>inb4 "salty storm player"

>>52436524

Burn. Contrary to what memers here will tell you it has few truly bad matchups, it's braindead easy to play, and Price shits down the throats of 90% of the decks played in legacy.

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>>52436558

>>52436600

At least counterbalance takes two turns to come online and is conditional/random without brainstorm/top. It still gives me a headache to play against though.

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>>52436558
How are we supposed to function with Wizards printing format-warping power like this?

>>52436558
Knowing flat out what you can/cant do.
>>52436600
constant bullshit limbo guessing game.

>>52436558
The whine about wizards not reprinting some cards and making all formats available for everyone.

>>52436524
Burn is the most stable deck, also you can get candy in between rounds playing it.

In other news I went undefeated in tonights local, playing vs Jeskai Blade, RW Painter, The Rock and 4c Loam. Dodging FoW could be related to my 80% game win% tonight.

>>52436657

The problem with Chalice is that it can come out turn 1 and hose you for your first 3 turns with minimal effort. Then you can only sit and watch as the bicycle helmet wearing fucker you're playing against windmill slams forced modern creatures and go for face.

At least with combo decks if you're dead turn 2 there's nothing much you can do but having to play out additional turns against brainless eldrazi aggro tilts me off the face of the planet.

>>52436657
CB is far more forgiving than Chalice.

>>52436673
>>52436592
Thanks anons. But it didnt matter because only me and some other random guy showed up for legacy. Poor guy was trying to trade a few extra legacy cards and the store told him that scince they were legacy exclusive cards, he would basically get shit credit comapre to legacy/memedern cross over cards. How can the market not be popping super hard right now? If people arnt playing the format, then the cards should be cheaper. Or at least priced competivly just to get them off the fucking shelf.How can you give shit credit, then turn around, price them at full and just sit on them for fucking ever, knowing they'll never sell? The bubble should have poped super hard by now. I dont know why I even bother with this shit anymore. Wizards if you want the format dead, then fucking kill and and stop support for it, if not actually support the fucking format. But not with dipshit expedition/master pieces that contribute to fuck all. Remember how you reprinted some fetches in a standard set? Just do that again, but with other good cards. Just either kill it, or stop fucking pretending like you care. FUCK!

>>52437648
Move to the northeast us fampai. We have decent scenes.

>>52437908
There is one other place I can go, but its full of a bunch of smug shitters. They make fun of you for playing stuff like burn and 12post, or anything thats not top teir. And even then, you still catch a bit of shit if its a non blue deck. So i can either not play, or deal with a bunch of shitters when I do.

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I don't really know where to ask, but I guess this pile is legacy legal. Any ideas or suggestions to improve this pile? I wanted a deck that had some deep lines of play while not being a solitaire deck for the 60 card kitchen table constructed my friends play. When I have the cash I'll probably pick up 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and replace 2 Swamps to shore up my Tainted lands but other than that I'm pretty happy with it.

>>52437987

Australian detected

>>52437987
Have you tried turning it upside down?

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>>52437987
I feex. You're list might benefit from some ancient tombs and Gifts Ungiven.
I'd cut everything but cabal therapy Burning Vengeance for something more impactful. Maybe add Stitchwing Skaab.

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>>52437987

>>52437987
what even is this pile?

>>52440476
Thanks for the fix, I didn't realize phone was upside down when I snapped the pic. Skaab doesn't feel like where I wanna be, the ability costs a lot when I also wanna be casting Fiery Temper for madness and Gravecrawlers.
>>52440518
Completely forgot this was a card, gonna drop the 2 Think Twice for a pair, thanks. I tested a version with Deranged Assistant but in the end it felt really slow and he isn't a zombie for Gravecrawler. Lots of ISD cards ended up in here though.
>>52440722
My "casual" shitbrew for the 60 card constructed format I play with some old friends. I wanted to make a deck with a diverse plan and Gravecrawler, Infestation and Therapy are a decent engine with Secrets and Vengeance for value. Saccing 2 Gravecrawlers/Infestation Tokens for a Scourge and then recasting the Gravecrawlers is value and it only gets better with Secrets and Vengeance out.

I just started trying out the 2 Circular Logic though, haven't had much of a problem with them but I was worried 6 instant-speed discard outlets wouldn't be enough to support them.

>>52440851
>Skaab doesn't feel like where I wanna be
Fair enough.
>the ability costs a lot when I also wanna be casting Fiery Temper for madness and Gravecrawlers
Can you elaborate? I thought it was quite reasonably costed and you wouldn't jam 4 of course. Its a mans and discard at instant speed when brought back from the graveyard and easy enough to bin with many of the cards in your deck. Discard 2 is a bit harsh, sure, but I figure you have enough cards that work from the graveyard or want to be pitched.

>>52440965
You may be right, after thinking a bit more I could probably try 2. I'm not sure where to make a cut though, I could probably go down to 22 lands, since I'm not trying to hardcast Scourge my curve isn't as bad as it might seem.

>>52440851
I recommend shaving 1 from Burning V and Secrets of the D to make room for Alchemy. Both Alchemy and Think can help you find your enchantments and both are better to discard to whatever.

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>>52362013
>Mana Drain
>Miracle

what fairs better against miracles, creature heavy stone blade or spell heavy stone blade?

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>>52436558
I am that guy that plays manaless dredge with FoW. With RiP, Cage, and Containment Priest I can at least sometimes counter them, leyline is always an early pint and casual vintage.

>>52423966

The border is tolerable but the font and hieroglyphs are unadulterated shit.

Bamp

Anyone have any tournaments coming up? Taking spicy tech to fnm? Aiming to win some duals over the weekend? I'm cruising down to MA wit da crew to try and snag some duals.

>>52446761
Legacy is dead. DEAD.
I'm heading to the open in Louisville. Hopefully it's not held in a barn like the GP.

>>52446928
Is that the team constructed one? I really wanted to go but I shouldn't spend that much and my teammates are poor.

>>52447123
Yeah, it is. I'm bringing my 12post-miracles-dredge hybrid brew. Victory is assured.
>my teammates are poor.
Ha, thats my team. We live one state over so it's a reasonable trip for us. Still figuring out how the jobless one is going to scrounge the entry fee.

moggcatcher or dragon stompy?

>>52448562
Red stompy with Rabble Master and Sin Proder.

>>52448562
Minotaur stompy

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>>52451112
>Minotaur
You mean Didgeridoo stompy?

>>52451249
Yes. Brewing now. Best part is the good minotaur are red so you can still play blood moo

>>52451402
I'm going to pretend I was making a cow joke and I didn't just mistype.