GW Releases 8th Edition Rules Concepts

>>52326127
WE SIGMAR NOW

>>52326127
The fluff bit sounds nice, but unless they get rid of formations (unlikely since they'd have to replace tons of books) it doesn't seem enough.

Move value actually sounds nice, super special warscrolls for every unit sounds shit

Charging = Ini buff sounds stupid, the extra attack is fine

Morale sounds idiotic.

>>52326127
>Penny for your thoughts, /tg/
IMO
>more special rules
>more "armies" like AoS armies with lack of units variety pushing by Allegiance system
Well if current 40k in theory could be fixed this one will never be finished

>>52326127
>No Squats mentioned

DROPPED
R
O
P
P
E
D

>>52326127
>>Morale is no longer all or nothing; units who fail morale checks take additional casualties but keep fighting. Also, it sounds like ATSKNF, Fearless, and Zealot are either getting squatted or reworked so that morale affects everyone.

We battleshock now

>>52326127
The fact that they're dropping these ideas online makes me hope for community testing in the near future.

>>52326127
Love the movement and save modifier ideas. I truly hated the ap system. Autocannons could take down medium vehicles but many infantry armor was proof against them... made no sense.

Also, tau and humans being as fast as genetically modified power armor augmented super soldiers made no sense.

What I'm really worried about is morale. Some units will be impossible to break despite having mediocre leadership, which doesn't make sense. Also I think it doesn't properly take into account unit size. It means swarm/horse/tarpit units may suffer badly with leadership even though they haven't proportionally lost a lot.

i look foward to the rage at release

>>52326312
It wasn't phrased as an initiative buff from charging, it was phrased more like AoS, where each player takes turns alternating units in combat, in whatever order they prefer, with the active player getting priority. So if you only have one unit in combat in your assault phase, that unit will hit first, but if you have two units in combats you have to choose which one to activate first, and your opponent may choose to hit that unit back or to activate the unit in the other combat. It adds a layer of real strategy, not just rock-paper-scissors.

>>52327165
That sounds fucking stupid. So my Guardsman can hit before a daemon prince if there is another combat that your enemy really needs to go first on?

It's a huge indirect buff to low I armies.

>>52326312
>Morale sounds idiotic.
It sounds like AoS Bravery which is simple and neat

>>52327209
such as....orks

>>52327209
They're obviously at least going to pretend to rebalance that stuff. And it just means you can't rely on always going first, finally a possible nerf for eldar. I do agree though, I can imagine units like power klaw nobz actually becoming useful, and depending on how hard they go on the armour modifiers, units like meganobz and terminators could be absolute garbage or the next stupidly broken thing.
>>52327032
Swarm units will probably get some equivalent to old mob rule, where they get bonus leadership depending on the size of the squad. Still could be broken though.

>>52326369
Squats have been moved to the Age of Sigmar universe.

>>52327257
>They're bringing in the "3 Ways To Play" concept from AoS.
was literally already in though unless i'm missing something ? or are they just going to add an extra line that says you can play without points now ?
>They want to introduce Command Points to "reward players who structure their army like their in-world counterparts"
let's hope they release it across the board and not codex by codex like in aos , cause armies with faction specific traits and bonuses destroy those without them
>The Move value will probably be coming back,
it's a bit of extra depth i guess though i fail to see the point of adding extra bloat to 40k while it's already bloated enough
>They want to replace AP with Armor Save Modifiers to "better represent how you imagine them working in your head."
love it, cookie cutter lists have finally become viable, no need to worry about your hellhound becoming a waste of points if you're playing agaisnt marines for example, hope it translates well into 40k though
>Charging units will get some sort of Initiative bonus
i think they specifically mention attacking first , wich is great , just the buff that melee needed, and risking a longer charge is now well worth it
>Morale is no longer all or nothing; units who fail morale checks take additional casualties but keep fighting.
good finally more is a factor instead of a flunked roll once every 6-10 games,
But larger units need some sort of compensation (other than the +1 morale per 10 they get in aos) to still keep them viable , a lot of larger units get bonuses the larger they are , stuff like that needs to be in 40k as well, or you will be actively handicapping yourself by forming larger squads

consensus : i am exited as all these changes are great on paper but they will need to be supported with rules tweaks for certain units

>>52326312
Morale sounds better than now.

In current 40k you could just remove morale alltogether since everything is fearless or atsknf

>>52327420
did not mean to quote

>>52326127
>Armour save modifiers. This topic comes up almost as often as Sisters of Battle… so we’re going to bring them back
Really makes you think.

>>52327420
I'd say it will be like unbound, some narrative scenarios and standard matched play

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>>52327420
>>52327437
You also didnt mean the word consensus

>>52327427
That's no reason to chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

>>52326127
>They want to replace AP with Armor Save Modifiers to "better represent how you imagine them working in your head."
>The Move value will probably be coming back

Could it be that they're actually undoing some of the mistakes of the transition to 3rd edition? Holy fucking shit.

>>52327477
Unless it has down syndrome

I'm just curious on how Tau bonding knives will work with the new moral system.

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>>52327554
>being this ableist

I'm lovin' it.

40k needs to ripped apart and burned and written anew. There is no other way to improve the game enough

>>52326127
Every section of this article says: "We don't understand our own product"

>General's handbook sells well, must be because we put optional game modes, not because it's necessary for competitive play.
>having stats that are unique to models means you only have to learn your army, not literally every profile.

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>>52326127
Once again you miss the big detail right in the middle of it all.

>"We think the Move value should come back. No more default unit types. Every model should have cool bespoke rules. Not only would that be more fun, but it’ll mean you will only need to learn the rules for your models."
>"No more default unit types. Every model should have cool bespoke rules."
>"No more default unit types"

Good bye Bikes,
Good bye Flying Monsterous Creatures
Good bye Beasts
Good bye Vehicles???

>>52327621
those two made me raise my eyebrows as well
>the other two game modes where already in but this book that's necessary to play with points is really popular , surely that's because of the 2 modes that where already available !

>in our infinite wisdom we have decided to scrap the standard 10 movement profiles, now you have to learn each and every single model separately , isn't that so much easier ?

>>52327663
Vehicles at a minimum will be a standard rule, flying will be a standard rule, monstrous creature (or Huge or something) will be a standard rule, beast probably won't be.

>>52326127
Excuse me GW but, with the new moral check system am I out of a job shooting conscripts?

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Hey kids get in the Bolt action pool the water's fine

>>52327663
>bikes
>if you equip your units with bikes then add X movement!
>space marine bikes move 6+6" still
>eldar bikes now move 7+8" because eldar are so fast
>Ork bikes move 4+4" because Orks are not supposed to be good :^)

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>>52326127
>The Move value will probably be coming back
>They want to replace AP with Armor Save Modifiers
>Charging units will get some sort of Initiative bonus
I am perfectly okay with all of this.

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>>52327913
>Charging units will get some sort of Initiative bonus
>riptides are faster than marines on the charge
>Slaanesh marines striking last against charging loyalist marines
>genestealers getting beaten up by charging guardsmen
It's like you can't see how this will all go wrong.

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>>52327786
Forgot my pic, I'm bad at shitposting.

The lack of standardized unit types is a big fucking red flag to me.

>>52327840

I don't know if I want the typical 40k players inside BA

>>52328069
Someone already made a 40K Bolt Action supplement.

>>52328010
That all makes sense tho. Something that is moving tends to be faster than something that isn't.

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>>52328092

okay, well it's a rather flexible ruleset (antares is based on it too, and it's SciFi as well)

But anyway I don't think 40k players would appreciate the way BA structures the army lists (despite being a rather "arcade" historical, you are still stuck with 0-1 tank/car per platoon, not "3" heavy choices + "3" fast ones etc etc.)

>>52326127
>"WE ARE NOT DOING 40k END TIMES GUYS"

>>52328154
Right, so shooting units will still be able to dominate melee units because now weapon skill AND initiative are completely meaningless.

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>Having to buy all new codex, mission cards and shit

That's the part that pisses me off, i like my Chaos dex albeit how old the fucker is, i like traitors legions, and i like GSC

I play Sigmar too but the books are patheticly skinny in comparison. Ironjawz book you get a half page of lore for each unit, 3 fluff stories, 3 missions, warscrolls, and fuck all else

Don't like the sound of charging for initiative either but if it's turn based like aos then maybe it could work

i like owning real books but fuck it, going down the pirate path if need be

>>52328262
Firstly, there is no reason a shooting list would ever charge at you when they'd be close enough to rapid-fire instead.
Secondly, if you're the melee-focused army and THEY're the ones that manage to get of the charge, you're playing badly and probably deserve to lose.

>>52327209
Spotted the Eldar player.

The AoS rules are objectively better than 40k.

I see no issue here at all.

>>52326127
As a Necron player these are all direct buffs to me.
>Low Initiatives go first on charge
>AoS-like morale for a ld10 army
>AP replaced with save modifiers (still get RP)
>reward players who structure their army like their in-world counterparts (spamming wraithknights and riptides punished)

>>52328262
>Shooting armies will dominate
>At charging enemies

right now in AoS, the biggest counter to all the fast shooting spammy armies are Melee Armies that are tough as fuck.

>>52328363
I play guard mate. I think Eldar should be I4. The problem is that if you have two high I units in combat on any given turn, one of them can get reamed first because "Be nice and take turns hitting each other :^)"

Saying that I like the idea of an I bonus on charge, a good incentive to actually do melee again.

>>52328363
Eldar should hit before shit tier humans and orks etc, because the eldar are FASTER.

>>52328426
>Eldar never get caught with their pants down

w/e nerd

>>52328426
Not when they're standing still.

Jokes aside, you're forgetting the most important part of this: different units will have different movement values. Your Eldar are probably gonna be dashing across the board faster than anyone else, and will thus have a better chance to get into favourable charge-range than your opponent. All you have to do is play as well as your opponent and not make dumb tactical moves, and you're fine.

>>52326127
I like the sound of it all, sure it could turn out to be awful but it could also turn into a game that rewards you for outmaneuvering your opponent and engineering situations that benefit you.

Too little info to make any judgment besides knee-jerk bitching but Im glad 40k is getting some sort of re-haul.

I never thought am going to say this, but given the changes I think Ill move on to aos and play the pirate squats.

Also who thinks that loyalist marines are going to have rules to let them ignore battleshock ?

>>52328343
>Firstly, there is no reason a shooting list would ever charge at you when they'd be close enough to rapid-fire instead.
...unless they have relentless and can do both like riptides, wraithknights and bikes of all stripes can.

>>52328426
Yeah so make them I4, still faster than regular human but they shouldn't be faster than a fucking space Marine for fuck sake.

>>52328518
If GW isnt dumb then they could do ATSKNF work like the 30k marines, their leadership never changes but they are still able to break morale, so marines would still be affected by battleshock but their leadership value would be unaffected by casualties so they take less casualties.

>>52328562
What should be faster than a space marine?

>>52328569
Vespids

>>52328562
eldar are faster than space marines u cuck

>>52328518
Sigmarines don't

They have Bravery 7-8 acoss the board, but being 2 wounds each it's painful when one flees.

They do have Celestant heroes that protect essentially fearless bubbles

>>52328569
Actually elite units. Not every unit in the fucking eldar book.

>>52328562
Yes they should. Eldar are superhuman beings, and are consistently describeds in terms that make them sound way faster than marines. They fucking move so fast that human eye has hard time tracking them. Initiative 5 is perfect for them.

>>52328622
>Teleports behind you
>Nothing personnel kid

>>52328612
Wrong. Baseline eldar having initiative 5 is perfectly fine. They are superhuman beings after all.

>>52326553
Oh boy, the bosspole will be even more useless.

>>52328678
they could you know change the rules for bosspole

crazy right

>>52328656
Yes, that is their thing. While marines are tough and strong, the eldar are fast. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

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>>52328612
I was hoping you would say Genestealers.

In Age of Sigmar, shoots units are allowed to shoot in the shoot phase even if they are currently engaged in melee. This was confirmed by FAQ, so it's not a rules hole.

Do you think GW will make 40k act that same way?

>>52328737
>Pile in on wraith knight
>Hold on I'm just going to point this fucking d cannon at my feet

Sounds about right though.

>>52328737
I fucking hope not.

>>52327881
Rip my Evil Sunz army

>>52328737
If it means the removal of overwatch and random charge distances then Im ok with it.

>>52328559
So what you're saying is, units that don't really need or care about higher initiative will have a slightly higher initiative?

Like, you're aware that this is just gonna be a +1 to initiative or something stupid like that, right? This isn't gonna be AoS "charging units always go first no matter what." This is gonna be i3 Riptides and i6 Wraithknights and i7 Skyweavers; its about as meanignless an upgrade as those things can get.

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>>52326127
Until GW does a full fucking line of Codexes BEOFRE realeasing a new edition they aren't going to see a penny from me. These ADHD motherfuckers need to finish the projects they already have before they start new ones.

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>>52327032
>>52328562
>I'm glad Move values are coming back so that my Space Marines can finally be the fastest infantry like they ought to be
>I'm glad charging changes initiative now so that Eldar can lose I value and let my Space Marines hit first like they ought to

Is the first thing you think of when reading about edition changes really "my marines will finally have the best numbers, just like in muh fluff"?

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>>52326127
>The Move value will probably be coming back
>They want to replace AP with Armor Save Modifiers
>Charging units will attack first

Good. That means I can start giving chainaxes to my tacticals and send them running.

>>52328737
I like that units can't shoot during melee in 40k, but at the same I don't. At least let us fire blast weapons and stuff into them from other units. :c

>>52328295
I suppose all the TL formations are still gonna be valid

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>>52328877
Get a unit with jump packs and give them all 2x power fists. :D

>>52328896
Better yet, orks on bikes with two power claws.

>>52328896
I doubt it'll affect power firsts

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>units that fail morale take additional casualties
> mob rule table continues to rape my severely prolapsed green anus

Anyone want to buy an ork army?

>>52327595
Get yourself together. It's unethical to suggest that able people ought not be able and disabled people ought not be disabled due to personal sensitivities.

>>52328875
Marines shouldn't be particularly fast

>>52328932
If it says charging units attack first, the fists attack first.

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>>52328936
Or you could not be such a cancer causing shitlord sweetie ;)

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>>52328960
Huehuehue.

>>52326127
>le
>>you only need to know your own warscrolls
>meme
no, you don't. you need to know the warscrolls of your opponent and if you play tournaments, that means every warscroll

>>52328804
>Until GW does a full fucking line of Codexes BEOFRE realeasing a new edition
So, you want them to release a bunch of books and then immediately invalidate all of them, instead of releasing everything at once? Are you clinically retarded?

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>>52328960
>unit of chaos fist- termintors
>alpha legion lord with the midnveil
>3D6 movement
>Str8 ap2 striking first
LOOK AT ME NOW LOYALISTS, LOOK AT ME NOW

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>>52328562
>Space marines are faster than Eldar

/tg/ everyone, you can't make this shit up.

>>52326127
THIS IS A CLEAR TRIAL BALLON
They are testing to see how the gaming community reacts to the suggestion of AOSifying 40k.

>>52328986
I don't know what that means.

Here's some advice. Toughen up or be more objective and ethical in your interactions with people instead of needing to be coddled.

Hate me now, thank me later.

>>52327032
will i finally get terminators that are not slow as fuck and can get something done for a change?

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>>52329010
>>52328992
I would make an imperial fists version of this.

>>52328562
Oh lord. Spess Mhureens fanwanking is awful. If you want to comment on the other races in the game then please understand a bit about them. The Eldar have always been known for their incredible speed. At I 5 for almost every single one of their units the only marine that could keep up with them that springs to mind are those infused with the Blessing of Slaanesh and even then it's 50/50

>>52328986
>shitlord
>sweetie
Pick one faggot

>>52329061
Well you can already use Tartaros. Same cost, can sweep and has some upgrades for free. Only for Vanilla Marines though.

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>>52329060
Typical white cis male, why dont you think of other before you open your privileged mouth

>>52328010
not like
>all the conscripts get to stab the orks before the orks get to stab back
makes more sense

>>52328518
probably just an insanely high leadership combined with a reroll or something

>>52328562
Look at that M 4, look at it. Oh wait, it's somewhere way behind.

Eldar were always faster than SM, deal with it.

>>52329100
Again. I have no idea what most of that means. What privilege did I earn? Do you know one of the differences between a right and a privilege is one is intrinsic, the other is earned?

>>52328934
Well maybe they'll make a new ork codex. Maybe it won't be the reverse codex creep that it's always been since third. Maybe they'll put orks back on par with other armies, Maybe I'm a fuzzy pink unicorn with shitting dick nipples who actually believes GW wants to sell ork models.

>>52328426
>elder should only get 20% the army size my guard get cause humans are NUMEROUS

it's a matter of balance>fluff
besides specialist eldar units could get a special rule that let's them strike first regardless

>>52329139
We can only hope.

>>52327583
They'll probably just remove them. They're streamlining the game.

>>52326127
https://youtu.be/7dl0OtWqCa0

I didn't want to laugh at them smashing the drop pod but I did

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>>52329100
Sorry but when people talk like that all I think are two words.

Weakness and cowardice.

>>52328932
>power fist s 2x ap2 unwieldy
unwieldy: a weapon with this special rule always strikes at the end of the melee fase after all other units without this rule have struck
wow that wasn't very hard now was it ?

>>52329007
How many times has an addition change fucked over some special ability or other in an armies codex? How many times has an edition change resulted in an army with an outdated codex getting an accidental power up?

DESU, I'm fairly naueseated by the release core book, release splats, release new edition of core pattern in general, but when you've got a competivie wargame like this you HAVE to make sure your splats are written with the most up to date rules in mind.

It's not hard to follow. Release core, release codexes. Sell some models, maybe do a second print run of everything. Then, ONLY then, are you allowed to release a new edition.

>>52328959
No kidding, gene mods only go so far while wearing several refrigerators as armor.

>>52329398
You literally shitting all over your own argument here.

The new edition IS the core, what the fuck are you even saying?

Have you even been paying attention to the changes they're discussing? They completely invalidate all existing codexes. They're going to release a whole new version of the game with new rules for everyone all at once, that's the fucking point

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>>52329167
>sadist fetish art with Apple OS filename
dumb phoneposter

>>52329127
priviledge is the new pet toy of communists, their renewed attempt at making everything "equal" and "fair".

>>52326127
Dear GW,
I'm okay with this.
Thanks,
A concerned Tyranid player.

movement, armor save modifiers and morale changes are all hugely welcome changes that should always have worked that way. the charging thing sounds weird until you consider how fucked most dedicated assault units are when they charge into terrain because they don't have assault grenades. it also rewards aggressive play in general, which is something assault armies probably should be rewarded for.

so, sure, the idea of power fists swinging before power swords might seem a little weird at first, but it makes more sense the more you think about it. we also don't know how much of a hard rule it's going to be - if it's a modifier, if it's an "always strikes first" kind of situation, etc.

command points is a little weird because that's how formations were supposed to work in the first place. if anything that seems like a tacit admission that formations have not been handled well and have been inconsistent at best and largely only served to sell models rather than make for interesting armies.

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>>52329608
Me too buddy. Me too.

>>52329094
So what is the downside of Tartaros compared to Indomitus?

>>52329100
Fuck off

I wrote to WarhammerTV, how long does it take them on average to answer?

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>>52329167

>>52328934

Are you more a 40k fan or an Ork fan? If it's the latter you should move onto AoS

>>52329728
Some weapons can't be taken, like the assault Cannon, or TH+SS combo.

>>52329627
Pretty sure they admited themselves formations were a failure. Hence the command points. They wanted to advantage fluffy armies and ended up the other way around.

>>52327663

Eldar Jetbikes: "Some Eldar are equipped with Jetbikes. Their furious speed grants them a 16" movement. They may either move twice in a turn, move and charge, or move and shoot, in any order. Additionally, their save is now 3+."

Dark Eldar Jetbikes: "Some Wyches are equipped with Jetbikes. They're pretty fast I guess, but the Dark Eldar are fragile. Movement is now 8" and their save is changed to 5+!"

I can see it already

>>52330139
If orks don't get a red paint upgrade for bikes that makes them as fast as eldar jetbikes(or one point faster), I will be deeply saddened.

>>52326735
That would be amazing.

>>52326735
This is KIND OF coming with the whole "Community Feedback FAQ's" thing that allow people to vote.

>>52330247

If 40k gets AoSified, Orks will get all joke buffs like "You must shout WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH to get +1 to your hit and wound rolls when charging", which is what they did to all the squatted armies from WHFB

>>52330365
Propably won't happen, but ork players do that anyway

>>52330365
And yet Ironjawz are one of the armies with the simplest yet strongest playstyle.

>>52330418
Ironjawz are mid tier at best

They have no shooting, theyre slow as fuck, and battleshock fucks them hard

>>52328569
An Eldar that has been hurled off a cliff by a space marine.

>>52327881
>Orks
>Not traditionally one of the fastest armies going

Even if they cant do much when they get there.

>>52330418

Ironjawz are okay but they're not regular Orruks anyway. If anything they're like an army of Meganobz with Orkanaughts.

>>52330408

True. They should legitimately get The Red Unz Go Fasta again though

>>52330460
>slow as fuck

Not with a good Ironfist and the Destruction bonus. You can run across the board easily.

lot of people here worried about codex's it seems. You do know that in AoS you can get all the unit warscrolls for free? I'm sure they will do the same thing here and you won't have to buy all new codexs. And besides, what's one fucking codex? Its not a big deal even if you do have to buy and replace it.

>>52326127
Why is GW so obsessed with blue and gold colour schemes for their poster boys?

>>52330115
that's awfully refreshing to hear. everyone had high hopes for formations at first and they basically ruined 7th edition by letting you take armies of nothing but elites and big guns.

>>52330750
It's a really nice color scheme that screams "good guys"

>>52330750

>>52330859

Pretty much this. It's a nice aesthetic that's fairly neutral and is generally considered benign in the west. Looks like good guys and it probably won't offend anyone even if it doesn't really jump out and grab you.

>>52330859
>>52330925
Indeed. Popular culture and our environment has conditonned us to asspciate red and black with Bad and Blue and gold with Good.

>>52328934
Im now imagining mob rule reworked to be like an ogre tyrants rule.
>unit takes d3 mortal wounds
>immune to battleshock for the rest of the game

Maybe you kill an ogre but the rest will never run. Now imagine that with a horde army, maybe jack it up to d6 and youve got a fearless army with some minor casualties

>>52330973
>Popular culture and our environment
Basically just LEGO castle sets.

>>52331026
And video games, and series, and animes, and simple stuff like traffic lights (red being a scientific reason here, red is the most percieved colour by the eye, hence it's use to signify danger)

>>52331047
>red is the most percieved colour by the eye
I would be more careful with statements like that because some autistic biologist is gonna get triggered by that.

>>52331087
If I remember well, it's something like out of the 3 basic colours that eye detects, like red green and the 3rd one that I can't remember, red is the one that is generally the easiest to detect.

If a biologist wants to correct me, please do, we'll all be smarter for it.

Does that mean that all FW units will become illegal ?

FW aren't really known for updating their old stuff, especially if it's from Imperial Armour. I hope they do. I'm playing a Siege of Vracks Renegade army and I would hate to see my army become some half assed IG with tons of proxies.

>>52331047

All u dum gits trynna logick. red makes it go fasta cuz red is da FASTAST

Fookin oi!

>>52328518
like kill team ? reroll battleshock ?

>>52331143
Basically it's conditioning that red=danger. The color your eyes perceive best is green, your color resolution is like 80 times higher in the green spectrum.

>>52331192
Forge world eventually updated most of their stuff, even out of print models have rules for aos. The only one i know of that doesn't have rules is elspeth von draken but they still sell her.

>>52327840
>Everyone plays guard
>not even guard in space

>>52331234
I was thinking more about that GK Dread and some Ork stuff that is still not updated from 6th ed.

Also, a drastic change in the rules would mean they would have to reprint some IAs because they have more than just datasheets, they have whole army lists as well.

As an Ork player, I was really happy until I saw the morale line.

Basically makes Orks lists go Bikers or bust.

>>52331394

eh not really. Get enough boys and it won't matter to much if some run.

>>52329164
>Cardboard box with PLASTIC THUNDERHAWK scrawled on the side
>Poorly constructed Lego regiment tray with wheels
I enjoyed this video

>>52331234
elspeth von draken doesn't have rules but the dragon she's on has

>>52331322
I think forgeworld would just release free pdf updates for older stuff and focus on printing more money from 30k, its what they did for sigmar.

>>52331723
There are 2 separate kits, elspeth on carmine dragon and carmine dragon. Im still going to buy her before ahe gets discontinued and probably use her as an archmage on dragon

>>52329398
So youre mad because theyre not doing what theyre actually doing?

Dude stop fucking bandwagoning, I bet 6 months ago you were on here griping about 7th.

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>>52328195

They're not.

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So for all the people wondering about codexes who probably wont read this.

They will do what they did for 3rd edition 40k and Age of Sigmar. They will redo EVERYTHING for the new game.

>>52329438
>>52329398
If my source is correct/not trolling me theres going to be a shotgun release of *every* current codex very fast after the new edition drops. Hes about 80%/20% on not trolling the shit out of me.

>>52332358
Yup thats what they did for 3rd edition 40k to kill the rules bloat of the old game.

>>52332358
Well, if they are going to make such a fundamental change like possibly introducing a new characteristic to unit profiles, that is what they have to do OR a fuckhueg errata document. The latter is not really an option if streamlining and drawing in new blood is the goal.

>>52328483
Woah, something that might actually add some tactical depth to 40k without making the rules more complicated.

Stops short of making the rules not terrible, but the movement is a step in the right direction.

>>52329127
>>52329060
>>52328936
Bruh.

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>>52326127
>They want to introduce Command Points to "reward players who structure their army like their in-world counterparts" (which is funny, because I thought that was the whole point of formations)
>The Move value will probably be coming back, which means Datasheets will probably be replaced with AoS-style warscrolls.
>They want to replace AP with Armor Save Modifiers to "better represent how you imagine them working in your head."
>Charging units will get some sort of Initiative bonus (no more >I2 Ork memes)
>Morale is no longer all or nothing; units who fail morale checks take additional casualties but keep fighting. Also, it sounds like ATSKNF, Fearless, and Zealot are either getting squatted or reworked so that morale affects everyone.

I like it, feels bit like ye olde editions and hopefully something from the 5th. Warscrolls make me cringe but maybe its ravening hordes -sort so they can reboot all codexes at once.

>>52333215
I kinda like warscrolls. Would be handy if we got those warscroll cards like in AoS

>>52332012
No mention of tyrannids by name, sky is falling.

>>52328559
all those units (wraithknight aside) don't want to be in close combat, though

because melee units eat them for fucking breakfast

>>52333723
White Scars Bikers

>>52333215

Formations are shit.

>I thought that was the point of formations
>Formations are fluffy
>Formations reward you for being fluffy

No they fucking don't. The only thing people use them for is cheese, just like everything else.

>>52331322
The ork stuff is still 5ed rules. Dred mob was legal for most of 7ed before they took it down after realizing literally none of the rules made sense.

What're the chances they release 40k warscrolls for free like they did with AoS in addition to codices?

>>52334436

They've already been doing this for things like limited edition models and the 40k plastic horus heresy kits

>>52328170
Id appreciate that. I stopped playing 40K for 2 reasons. Codex creep bullshit, and the game drifting away from basic infantry. The basic dude models were usually my favorites in EVERY faction's model range, but the game felt more and more vehicles and monsters.

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Honestly? Biggest thing that worries me about this?

Lack of a BRB.

I'm too new to 40k and tabletop wargaming in general to have a whole lot invested in the details of mechanics, but the idea of playing a tabletop game without a big thick massively overpriced hardcover rulebook bursting with minor details and nitpicky modifying-modifiers makes me ultradepressed.

>>52332012
The setting isn't changing just the rules

>>52329958
Artist?

>>52335343

Good. Goooood.

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>>52335343

>primachs coming back
>guilliman leading the imerpirum
>eldar teaming up
>one major IG homeworld destroyed, with rumours that 2 more will follow
>rumour of new breed of spess mareen that will take the focus away from the originals
>setting isn't changing

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>52328737

My IG would love it.

I love the new rules changes.

Having armor saves matter again is huge. AP was a horrible system.

Movement stats are a good thing.

Morale should matter, and it will hopefully end the endless bitching about ATSKNF.

Charging into combat should make you attack first.

MY BLOOD ANGELS WILL BE GOOD AGAIN!

>>52338214
>Morale should matter,
Yeah "no heroic deeds" is very funny
>MY BLOOD ANGELS WILL BE GOOD AGAIN!
You already got one of the best marines formations

>>52338294
Wait, you're actually defending 7th edition?!

>>52338313
>Wait, you're actually defending 7th edition?!
Nope
But AoS-like rules aren't better since they will ruin game beyond the repair

>>52336677
By that standard every edition changes the setting. It's called advancing the plot.

>>52338330
(-_-)

are you fucking serious?!

7th edition is not a band-aid solution.

AoS is a better system, it's much smoother gameplay.

Giving vehicles and walker and monstrous creatures wounds instead of the fucked up hull points or wounds system that currently exists is a good thing.

MAKE DREADNOUGHTS GREAT AGAIN

>>52338361
>are you fucking serious?!
Yep
>7th edition is not a band-aid solution.
Again where I said anything good about 7th edition?
>AoS is a better system,
Yeah, doubleturns, even more special rules, Scions-like armies such a great innovations.
>Giving vehicles and walker and monstrous creatures wounds instead of the fucked up hull points or wounds system that currently exists is a good thing.
Nope since it's fucking walkers and vehicles, not greater daemons.
>MAKE DREADNOUGHTS GREAT AGAIN
So how about fix what is broken now, instead of replacing the whole system by random circlejerk.

>>52338484
>Actually being in favor of the current armor save and AP system...

>>52338521
>>Actually being in favor of the current armor save and AP system...
Yep since it's still could be fixed.

>>52338534
>having to change every single weapon and/or armor
>could still be fixed

If you have to "fix" the whole thing that's the same as fucking redoing everything

>>52328010
it'll probably be like fantasy used to have. chargers strike first. but then you ahve other rules like always strikes first/last that override it. Or maybe just new exception and condition rules.
If anything gets always strikes first in 40k it'll be stealers.

another speculation I've seen is that striking first on charge only happens if the defenders overwatch. Otherwise just fight in regular I orser.

>>52336677
>They said it wasn't End Times
>They said it wouldn't be Age of Emperor

>The books literally says it's the Time of Ending
>The big announcement was literally Age of Sigmar rules

I'M BROTHER-CAPTAIN BASCH FON RONSENBURG OF DALMASCA PRIME! DON'T LISTEN TO GW'S LIES!

>>52338743
its been the time of ending in 40k since 5e.

also all these AoS rules got stolen from 2e 40k originally.
we've known for a while a big rules overhaul is coming. The setting wont change though.

>>52338361

Dreadnoughts are already great. They just need AV13 and invulnerable saves.

>>52338716
>If you have to "fix" the whole thing that's the same as fucking redoing everything
Nope since you are fixing it (aka making it better), not replacing by other shit.
But yeah I agree that some parts of core 40k ruleset must be redone, but not in AoS way since such system will also be broken piece of shit

>>52338967
>turn a scrap of wood into a house
>IT'S STILL A PILE OF WOOD GUYS IT'S DIFFERENT FROM JUST BUYING ANOTHER HOUSE

>>52338785
> The setting wont change though.

The Primarchs are back.

The Eldar have a god thing now? And they're all friends?

Seems like some reasonably sig-nificant changes to me.

>>52338999
>>turn a scrap of wood into a house
And what is "house" in this analogy?

This is what I was expecting when I saw some of the leaked images for Armaggedon: Shadow Wars and how the stats include a MV stat, obviously for movement. Was hoping they'd use it to see how people took to it but seems I was wrong.

>>52339062
Main thing I saw is that slugga boyz are now essentially s4 base. If that and changes like it are what 8th edition has in store for orks then I simply do not care about any grievances anyone else has.

>>52339014
i mean it won't be totally destroyed and replaced like WFB- AoS.
We've just had a little plot progression again.

>>52339512
>i mean it won't be totally destroyed and replaced like WFB- AoS.
Well kind of yes, the difference is that we jumped into Age of.... without setting destruction.
>a little plot progression again.
Which already changing the setting

>>52339556
its plot progression within the exact same setting.

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>>52339512
The same compression of scale will occur. The same shift from a Grim and Dark universe to a cell-shaded cartoon land. The realism and the humour and the 80s death metal album covers and the John Blanche art will fade away to nothing. The weird will be replaced with the marketable. The macabre and the bleak humour with cartoon copies. WFRP went from The Thirty Year's War with Elves Sometimes to Herohammer. They tried to raise the stakes but somehow, in getting rid of the inns and peasant levies and shit britches and bare feet, they only succeded in making the game feel pointless.

The same thing will happen to 40k. The art now only shows things that can be sold. The fiction has given up on any literary pretensions, or even pretending to be science fiction. The world of 40k, the fabric of the game, the thing the Space Marines defend, is fading. Soon there will only be Space Marines, existing for their own sake. Who needs Judge Dredd and Thatcher and Dune and all those messy themes and references when the game becomes about Trademarked Heroes fighting over Trademarked Stakes?

>>52339602
>exact same setting.
Technically, but with 100% different direction.

>>52339602
The setting was all about decay and hopelessness. Guilliman's return completely goes against those themes.

>>52339633
Not really, humanity is still fucked once Tyranids arrives en masse or the Necrons unite and theres nothing that invalidates chaos as a threat now that the demon primarchs are back, the fact that they have a demigod and are STILL going to get fucked is plenty grimdark.

>>52339611
>John Blanche art will fade away to nothing
Even if all the negative things should happen (they won't, just the normal amount of internet dudes that like to shit on everything), this one won't be bad.
More than enough b/w/brown illustrations or kitbashes in a monthly WD.

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>>52339631
>>52339633

>>52339675
>Not really, humanity is still fucked once
Except humanity now Alliance in space with LawfulGood leader.
>now that the demon primarchs are back
>Girlyman after 10k years coma easily bitchslapped Magnus the Fagnus
top kek
>the fact that they have a demigod and are STILL going to get fucked is plenty grimdark.
1) They aren't fucked
2) Nope it's not grimdark, because it doesn't have details of how things fucked.
>>52339676
>this one won't be bad.
Hi /co/

>>52339556
>Which already changing the setting
probably not significantly.
its been like 3 editions since eldrad got killed in plot progression and he's still got rules.

>>52339611
>The realism...the 80s death metal album covers

Those two are not really lining up things. 40k has never been remotely realistic.

>>52339611
>The art now only shows things that can be sold.
you can blame chapter house for that.
the results of the case mean a mini can't trademark something that doesn't have a mini even if there's artwork of it. So if GW or someone release art of something but not a mini then a 3rd party can swoop in, make the mini and have the trademark on the miniature form of the thing.
The IP is all GW has really so they had to make changes to keep their hold on it.

>>52339705
>LawfulGood leader
what gives you this idea? did you even read gather storm 3?

>>52339740
>you can blame chapter house for that.
Yeah totally not GW jewing policy and copyright hysteria.
>So if GW or someone release art of something but not a mini then a 3rd party can swoop in, make the mini and have the trademark on the miniature form of the thing.
So what?

>>52339748
>what gives you this idea?
Show me how Rob isn't LawfulGood?
>did you even read gather storm 3?
Yep.

>>52339633
Funnily enough, the biggest complaint I see about Gathering Storm is that everything stayed mostly the same.

>>52339764
>hur durrrr diplomacy is lawful good
>durrr he should just be purging everything XDDDDD
>temporary alliances are for cucks XDDDD not grimdark ebin

>>52339756
>So what?
well it means gw are opening things up for other companies to produced 40k branded minis. It also means they can't later release their own version when able to.

>>52339776
>diplomacy
How exactly "being most idealistic, most kindly primarch who always cares about humans" is diplomacy?
>>temporary alliances are for cucks XDDDD not grimdark ebin
Yes, especially when it's grandalliance between Marry Sue and DeusExMachina.
>>52339798
>It also means they can't later release their own version when able to.
Yes because GW always released models for pieces of art.

>>52339910
>Yes because GW always released models for pieces of art
not always. but who knows what they'll be able to donin the future. They used to just release what ever minis and art and they cam up with planning to do a mini eventually and letting us convert in the mean time. That's not a viable option anymore so GW are forced to act how they do if they want to retain the trademarks on their own creations.

all this kerfuffle is why it took so long for tyranids to get the mycetic spore (now renamed tyrannocyte because VH had the trademark on a mini named mycetic spore)

>>52326127
It sounds great, except for the AoS style morale. That shit is retarded.
I'm a little worried about the "charger strikes first," while it's a neat concept, it can easily become quite bad

>>52340217
>That's not a viable option anymore
Because..?
>all this kerfuffle is why it took so long for tyranids to get the mycetic spore
So we are talking about units without models, but with rules, not about artwork?

>>52340313
>Because..?
because then someone else could make the mini, meaning they get a peice of GWs IP and GW can't then later make their own version when resources allow.

>So we are talking about units without models, but with rules, not about artwork?
both, units without minis had artwork. which is what we'd normally base our conversions on. Now GW are holding their cards close to their chest to avoid risking losing them altogether. Its a logical and reasonable move for a businesses to make given the circumstances.

>>52339776

He pings as good as defined by 40k's setting, and is maximum over-good if viewed from humanity's perspective.

Just because humanity (and everyone else) is quite a bit less good than the Good forces of other not-grimdark settings doesn't mean they slide towards neutral or evil. Guilliman fights for hope and salvation while struggling and persevering. You can hardly call him maliciously Evil or detached Neutral.

>>52340274
>I'm a little worried about the "charger strikes first," while it's a neat concept, it can easily become quite bad
WHFB used to be like that when it was good, it's not really a problem

>>52340707
>GW can't then later make their own version when resources allow.
Why? Why they cannot make better product and wipe out third party out of market?

>Its a logical and reasonable move for a businesses
Doesn't chages the fact of quality downgrade (I talking about art)
>to make given the circumstances.
Most likely by their lazyness.

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>>52339611
>The art now only shows things that can be sold.

That isn't true. Yes, some artists base their art on models but that isn't true for every piece of new artwork GW releases. Hell, I am pretty sure the piece of art from your post is in the rulebook.

>>52340313
>Because..?

You been under a rock, dumbass? Chapterhouse ring a bell?

>>52340830
>their own lazyness

That's called the law you dumb fuck. They wouldn't do this if they didn't have to. They wouldn't be so anal about their IP and using some weird names if they could avoid losing the damn rights to their IP, which is how the common law functions.
It is litteraly not their fault here.

>>52340868
He obviously means they only make art of characters that have models. Of course they aren't going to make a model of some mountain.

>>52340918

Erm, I just posted a new piece of artwork which has a character which has no model.

>>52340830
>Why they cannot make better product and wipe out third party out of market?
because that would be copyright infringement and the 3rd party could then sue GW. The 3rd party made the mini first so they get the copyright, its this way because of the precedent set in some of the chapter house case rulings.

>>52340886
>Chapterhouse ring a bell?
Someone made modesl for 40k which GW didn't produce, how it stops GW from producing the same kits?
>>52340889
>They wouldn't do this if they didn't have to.
Because you say "GW dindunuffin"?
>It is litteraly not their fault here.
Yes because Disney copyrighted Imperial Guard and Venom assraped some tau they cannot hire goor artists for DA codex.

>>52340946
>The 3rd party made the mini first so they get the copyright
So what's forbid GW make the spore of the same sizes but different and better

>>52340976
nothing. hence the tyrannocyte.
but the point is now if GW have an idea for a new unit they have to wait until they can also produce a mini for it before they put it in a codex. Otherwise someone else will make it and GW then can't.

They can't just put out eveything they think of and catch up the minis later as funding allows anymore.

>>52338361
Your post made me hurt inside

>>52328010
why aren't the slaanesh marines doing the charging
prince of excess more like prince of sitting on ass lmao

>>52340976
Well that's what they did, they just werent legally allowed to call it a mycetic spore pod.

Which is why if they release rules they always risk loosing the rights to make minis for those rules, and then even if they make an almost identical but slightly different unit and model to get around that, there is now a 100% legally sanctioned proxy model in existence.

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>>52328010
>Tau firewarriors strike before Lelith Hesperax
It's gonna be great

>>52341085
>Which is why if they release rules they always risk loosing the rights to make minis for those rules,
So may be they should made models for all units instead of squating all rules for units without their models? Agter all GW isn't some small indie studio.
>there is now a 100% legally sanctioned proxy model in existence.

>it's not fun is it's not approved by GW
kys

>>52341104
So may be they should made models for all units instead of squating all rules for units without their models? Agter all GW isn't some small indie studio.
GW are a bigger company but they still don't have unlimited resources. There's a limit to how many new kits they can bring out each uodate.
Besides all that that is exactly what GW do now.

>it's not fun is it's not approved by GW
kys
The entire basis of the success of companies like GW or PP or whoever is that they're the only company that makes minis for their game.
Keeping hold of their IP is something they need to do, if new legal cases change things then they'll change how they operate as we've seen them do.

>>52341089
>making massive assumptions with very little info and no context.

>>52341161
I don't care bruh, I just wanna laugh at this garbage.

>>52339676

Blanchitsu is the pleb filter.

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>>52326127
MAKE 40K GREAT AGAIN

>>52329398
>competivie wargame
Heh.

>>52340939
>which has a character which has no model.

It's actually very similar to an OOP Ministorum Priest model. He was briefly available again last year as part of the Made To Order service.

>>52328496
This is bullshit, the game is becoming too much like AoS! I'm gonna go play AoS instead!

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>>52339633
Are you an idiot? It's still bleak as shit. You do know that Girlyman is destined to fail according to the prophecy of the Golden Warrior? The forces of Chaos and Tyranids are going to reach Terra right after Baal in destroyed.

Considering that FW is probebly making rules for the Emperor, picture related hints at the return of the Emperor.

>>52341385
Robot Guido will fail, die heroically, tyranids and chaos will converge on earth, in the chaos of the three way battle royale clusterfuck Cypher will re-appear, enter the Emperors chamber, plunge his sword into his chest - severing his tie to his physical body and allowing him to fully manifest as a true God

Earth will be lost but the rest of the Imperium, with it's new seat of power in Ultramar, will have a chance re-unified under a true Imperial God

Will this make 40k playable?

Should I actually put the effort in to build my Chaos space marine army now?

>>52328562
...Eldar have always been faster than marines. Guardians are pretty on par with space marines and they are just average civillians. Aspect warriors are like better in every way

>>52336677
You know I miss when anime had colouring like this.

>>52341699
unknown yet. we've had a tiny snippet of the changes so far.
Not enough to really give judgment on.

My only feeling on this is, I hope it's not too AOS, where to make a good army you need to source from like 8 different armies, kind of ruins the theme for me.

>>52341154
Fairly sure the person you're arguing with doesn't speak English as a first language.

>>52327420
Not replying to this specifically but ive read a couple comments saying that big units would stand to loose more from the morale change, but i dont see it; right now you loose the whole blob, with the new system youd loose a couple dudes instead, what am i missing here?

>>52342107
>what am i missing here?
That the word you're after is lose, not loose.

>fighting first means you're rewarded for outmaneuvering your opponent
>because rage, furious charge, defensive grenades, and counter attack don't

>>52341995
>Make a good army
You mean fluffy army? :^)

You currently need at least 3 or 4 books to play a decent army in 40k and a lot of lists don't make fluff sense anyways.

>>52342107
>Loose

If a monstrous creatures takes 2-3 wounds and then flees, you lose the whole creature.
That's worth more than a couple orkz

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>new edition invalidates all the Expansions, Codex Supplements, series of Campaign books, Datasheets, Formations and any other DLC shit GW dreamed up

I'd feel pretty mugged off if I'd spent £50 on the rulebook and £30 on my codex except half of the army's shiny new units are in a £20 codex supplement. Then again I'd be a mug to do so.

Bring back £25-30 for the rulebook and £10-12 a codex. Seriously, are people docile enough to buy this shit?

As long as the rule book gets reduced by at least 50% then this sounds fucking great.

Current rules are a mess.

>>52342252
The quality of the books has improved along with the price hikes. So yeah we buy them.

As for the buying books shortly before that's just an unfortunate inevitability that happens in all wargames.

>>52326127
Charging should just give the unit Hammer of Wrath+, 1 extra attack at Init 10 using their weapon's profile, instead of +1 A.

>>52342173
I dont see how this relates to what i said though, i never heard anyone be confused as to what a "big unit" was, especially since i use the pretty unambigous "blob" later on

Im talking about stuff like guardsmen, cultists and so on..

>>52342320

>going from paying £10 a codex to £30 except the unit rules and points costs are split in half and you have to buy a Codex Supplement for £20 and the second Shield of Baal book for £30 for your formation

Wew lad.

>>52342390
>loose
>..
I hate how sensitive cherry reds make me look like an idiot.

Anyway, anyone knows anything about if there are any changes to fliers? Are the rules from the supplement going to stay optional or are they getting rolled into the BRB in some fashion?

>>52342252
Rules becoming free is pretty standard.

>>52326127

in regards to the charge rule, would it still mean, that the unit getting charged can still attack back?

>>52338743
I would shame you for shit posting, but that ffXII meme made me laugh, so instead I love you.

>>52329158
Hope they just get rid of orks altogether, you mean.

Does Japan still get free codexes to download online, or is that a thing of the past?

>>52338361
The rules for AOS are bland and flavorless. 40k is clunky and broken, but at least it maintain some decent elements of game play to make the games feel like they are supposed to.

There are significantly better games out there than both systems. AOS is a huge step down.

>>52326127
Please, just phase out formations. Please.

>>52341466
>earth lost
Then humanity has nothing to fight for without a home world

>>52326127
>They want to replace AP with Armor Save Modifiers to "better represent how you imagine them working in your head."
As a Deathwing player I don't know how to feel about this. I just hope they will do this in a way that doesn't make 2+ save useless.

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>>52343867
>Has clearly never dealt with plasma

>>52340965
Because of trademarks you stupid inbred Slavposter.

>>52343613
How to spot an Eldar/Tau player instantly.

AoS is great and is ten times better than 40k, even the cheesiest lists in AoS are only slightly better than the fluffy lists.

>>52339014
Eldar liked each other enough to regularly work together, to value each others lives over humans and to allow the Harlequins into their settlements consistently since the fall.

They're estranged siblings that disapprove of each others lifestyles to varying extents, not foes.

>>52341104
I know they don't have laws in your third world shit-hole Ivan, but in real countries there is a thing called a "court" and if they tell you that you're not allowed to make something because somebody's else has it trademarked you literally are not allowed to make one that isn't "different and better". It has to be legally distinct, even the tyrannocyte is cutting it close. But you're right, GW should just Makenna the models for us, get sued, lose millions, and go out of business because you don't understand English or how laws work.

>>52328934
Mate you're going to get a new codex with free rules downloaded off of the GW site.

Your ENTIRE rules are changing. So are everyone elses. Huge tides of models work really well when it comes to moral because of the way wounds work in AOS. Especially on stuff like kurnothy hunters that have more than 1 wound.

>>52343961
I mean I really don't understand how people can be blaming GW for how the Trademark laws work?

Are they supposed to draw up artwork just to give some inbred Polish sculptor ideas to flog for 2X the price of GW, without GW having a way of stopping that.

>>52328934
If Orks even have a sample of the Strength Bonesplittaz do you're in for a fun ride as you field 40 man units that rape everything and never run away.

>>52343986
Is this why Orruks are a top-tier AoS army? ...Oh wait...

>>52327840
>All guard all the time without much of the stuff that makes guard remotely interesting
>also suddenly I'm an actual nazi for wanting to play the bad guys

Fuck off faggot.

>>52344040
They are?

Cunnin' Rok is downright broken and Ironjawz are a solid pick.

Moonclan can be hilariously broken too with alot of bodies.

>>52339014
Eldar and Imperium allying isn't anything new, especially with the looming threat of chaos greater than ever, they are more inclined to work together. They are not friends however

Primarchs have been around for a long time, the daemon primarchs have been active (though not doing much) or just chilling. Loyal primarchs are just returning or being healed