Redpill me on GURPS. Is it worth learning? Is it a standalone

>>52303741
Its far too front heavy for a lot of people, and by design it places a lot of work on the shoulders of the DM for set up.
But it does have a lot of really great, really well researched and put together sourcebooks that are well worth looking at for enhancing other games and settings you want to play.

>>52303876
Basically this, GURPS Alternate Earths for example are some of best alt-history I've seen, but I never really wanted to bother with system. It was fun to play with a GM who handled all the crunch (so players didn't need to understand the system) even if character creation was pain.

>>52303908
>>52303876
I'm a GURPS GM, and this sums it up. I handle the crunch, the players only really know how the basics work, though eventually they learn pretty well in my experience, but it starts with it all on your shoulders. Also chargen takes about an hour and a half per character if you want to do it right. The game in motion with a competent GM is a thing a beauty though.

It's a lot of fucking work. Really, if you read it over quickly and it just doesn't click with you, it's unlikely you will have the will to put in the front load of work necessary. So don't force yourself. Those books are great for info though. Art is atrocious for most, and I think nepotism is to blame.

>>52303741
No. GURPS is not even a System, it is a corpse, even more than D&D. It is a msusoleum to everything that is wrong with RPG nowaday.

File: Lite.pdf (2MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1x1px

If you want rules so heavy you'll break your freaking back trying to shoulder them without proper form, there's no better ticket.

If you want rules medium (and by medium I mean medium-heavy), sure, just stop at the "Rules Lite" thing except for if you want ~very~ specific rules to prevent arguing, like how much cover those little slits in a castle's turrets should provide, or if you want more pre-defined abilities and stuff for chargen. Don't try to get involved in the create-your-own spell shit. It's not worth the time AND it's busted. Just look at the normal stuff and make up an appropriate number. please

If you want rules lite, goodbye. This system is not for you and it was never for you and if you ever hear any idiot try to say GURPS can ever, should ever, or will ever function anywhere close to being accurately defined as LIGHT (as opposed to dark, hint hint), they're a lying scumbag. You think, "Oh, Gurps! That sounds lovely! I'll be able to time travel and I won't have to change systems so often, et cetera." No kid. You're in for a world of hurt as every little thing of GURPS eggs you on to abandon the 32-page Rules Lite. Mistaking GURPS for rules lite is like mistaking a trolley for a speeding freight train. Thinking GURPS is rules lite is like thinking a speeding freight train is a viable location for a game of badminton. See this here .pdf? It's one point six two megabytes of lies.

GURPS is the game your distant, ever-traveling sorta cool mostly scare CIA agent dad would get you to play in an attempt to not think of him as so calculating and snippy. GURPS is the Tractatus of tabletop systems. If you are a Rain Man, a sadist, or a naughty historian, you'll like it. If you are not, GURPS will devour you and necromance your body for further beatings and the occasional tea ceremony.

>>52304060
>Mistaking GURPS for rules lite is like mistaking a trolley for a speeding freight train

It's still one basic book vs three to six for every other system.

File: IMG_8278.gif (772KB, 400x225px) Image search: [Google]

772KB, 400x225px

>>52304060

>>52303741
I agree with basically what's been said.

Front Heavy Crunch, GM dependence, etc.

It's not hard to learn in my opinion, it's...Rule Medium, as it was said, but the basic mechanics are simple.

However, no matter what system you pick up or play I suggest learning the mechanics of GURPS character creation. Why? Because, their books tend to be VERY well researched. They're famous for having the CIA raid them for the cyberpunk book, and less famous for on of their bio books being used as a college text book. They legit have fucking bibliographies.

If you're not ready to embrace your lord and savior the Generic Universal Role Playing System, then embrace your friend, the Generally Useful Role Playing Supplement.

File: 1471732618879.jpg (66KB, 612x450px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 612x450px

>>52303741
>Redpill me

>>52304163
It was Secret Service, CIA doesn't operate domestically. Sorry for sperging, but I really had to.

Bamppu

>>52304238

Thanks, my bad.

>>52303741
GURPS is a very bad RPG system. Don't play it. Even FATAL is better than GURPS.

>>52303741
Sry unrelated question, but what's the source to pic related? Noticed several strong cyberpunk pieces by this artist by now.

>>52304933
Google reverse image search seems to hit a Spanish guy pretty consistently

File: c512c9919644c74167233a56838ddaa3.jpg (556KB, 700x495px) Image search: [Google]

556KB, 700x495px

>>52305059
Thx, spanish cyberpunk artist helped. Josan Gonzales. Great work

>>52304060
>If you want rules so heavy you'll break your freaking back trying to shoulder them without proper form
then GURPS is sadly not the game for you, as it is only rules heavy in this anon's imagination.

simple general rules/mechanics
lengthly but very detailed character creation, the most detailed out of all TTRPGs IMO
Very GM dependant as it'd be a difficult game if the players had to learn everything the GM knows at once, but they will learn too in time
can be used to run basically anything, I prefer GURPS for running wh40k RPGs to it's native systems
gets a bad rep from shit GMs throwing the entire basic book at their players when you need to pick out the skills and advantages for your specific game because most settings wouldn't allow every advantage/skill
Can be very, very rules heavy if the GM/players want it to be, but it allows a lot of depth

Imo it shouldn't be your first system unless the person running it is experienced since it can put people off tabletop when an inexperienced GM throws everything at the players.

File: playedgurps.jpg (125KB, 1515x608px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 1515x608px

>>52303741
>Is it a standalone system or is it a tool to create systems?
Very much the latter. GURPS is very, VERY toolboxy. This is both a blessing and a curse. People who say that rules is Baator in system form are probably not playing GURPS the way it was intended. GURPS takes modularity to the extreme, to the point that pretty much no rule or mechanic is absolutely required.

GURPS treats rules like computer programs. You don't buy a computer expecting to use every single pre-installed program on it, and certainly not right away. The onus is on you as a GM to pick which rules you want to learn and use.

GURPS has many rules that most people will never use. Why are they in the book, then? Because they're there for you just in case you do want them. Some groups can put the advanced rules for anatomical injuries and bleeding out to good use. Many will just be happy with simple HP.

Before you try to into GURPS, the most important question you need to ask yourself is, "Do I have a tendency to bite off more than I can chew?" If the answer is "yes", then you probably aren't ready for GURPS (yet). If the answer is "no", then you have nothing to lose in giving the basic books a good read. Even if you never use GURPS, there's a lot of good material in there you can use in other games.

>>52304225
"Redpill me" is the new troll catchphrase. It usually doesn't work very well.

>>52304060
If this isn't already a copypasta I'm making it one.

>>52303876
Is there a reason for a GM to learn GURPS over just learning all the other different systems?

>>52304060
Ooh, I love Wittgenstein. You sold me on it.

>>52304163
>less famous for on of their bio books being used as a college text book
Hold the fucking phone, I need a source on that. I've always admired GURPS for its thorough research, but I've never thought it was rigorous to that degree

>>52305953
>The UNIX Philosophy
>not Emacs: the RPG

>>52303741
how many dicerolls and calculations are to resolve before an attack, for example a swordstrike hitting a combatant in a gambeson, is completed?

File: hi retard.jpg (23KB, 598x399px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 598x399px

>>52303876
>Its far too front heavy for a lot of people
By which you mean you, because you're an idiot.
>and by design it places a lot of work on the shoulders of the DM for set up
By which you mean a lot of work in your opinion, because you're a moron.

>>52310237
Just one to hit and one for damage. People who say GURPS is complicated either haven't played it or are low IQ.

>>52310365
but i also asked about the calculations, including armor values and arriving damage

>>52308844
GURPS doesn't - can't - do anything as well as a good, dedicated system. However, it does anything better than a bad dedicated system, and it can do things there isn't dedicated systems for.

>>52310414
One roll to hit, one roll for damage, apply armor.

Don't be purposefully dense.

>>52310531
GURPS is a dedicated system that you build yourself out of the tools provided for you in the material. This guy has clearly never read a GURPS manual.

>>52310536
>apply armor
give me formulas the, please. they are relevent to the time needed to resolve an attack

>>52310571
>"apply armor"
>HRRRRRRRRRRR WHAT DOES THAT MEAN I NEED THE FORMULA

You are a fucking moron. What could "apply armor" possibly mean you fucking retarded kike?

>>52310571

Damage - Armor = damage taken.

>>52310603
something as simple as armor class up to using a combination of flat reduction, percentual reduction and even a root-based formula as I made one once.

but since it's GURPS, we use the formulas that apply to an actual strike hitting a real-life piece of armor. Then I'd be a retarded kike for not knowing that beforehand

>>52303741
Easy to play, nightmare to DM unless you really memorize shit. Lots of good material, but difficulty of running it without an experienced DM who knows the rules front and back makes getting into it difficult.

>>52310726
nothing but flat reduction then?

>>52310761
No shit, idiot.

>>52310603
It can be many things you mongoloid. Anima has a damage reduction based on percentages of total damage, some games change damage types to weaker types, some just have a flat DR, some garbage systems even just make armor be something that makes you harder to hit.

So it could mean many things you retarded fucking nigger newfag

>>52310531
>a good, dedicated system
And look how the opinions diverge on which is good and which isn't.
Fact is, GURPS is good for plenty things, fine at others and "uhhh, I guess it works...? but why are we doing this" at a few others.

>>52310797
>assblasted autistic spastic can't pick up information from context
>blames everyone else for his retardation
Go write a whiny suicide note you stupid fuck

>>52304024>>52303876>>52303741

Honestly, I always found GURPS to be almost fluid and intuitive, especially during character building. Yes, the math of the dice system can be a little heavy, but the game itself is so easy to build almost any concept, especially in simple fantasy campaigns.

As a GURPS GM, I have seen people build the following moderately outlandish characters with huge success, both mechanically without being a munchkin and in terms of role playing:
Blind seer joan of arc type
confused, soulless flesh golem
100% cyborg roller derby-gladiator
boba fett
sentient laser beam (this one was, mechanically, impressive but retarded in concept)
grizzled soldier caring for a war orphan
rich guy with unfathomable riches but no practical skills
proper warlock who remotely drew all his magic power from a demon

>>52310799
>I've never read or played gurps, the post

>>52310842
I played a lot of GURPS and it was very fun and worked just fine, tyvm.

>>52310531
bullshit. just takes effort.

>>52310571
Here's an intense formula

"I'm wearing a leather jacket. It gives me 1 DR."

done, you fucking trog.

>>52303741

eh, gurps is pretty good for relatively "realistic" settings, and desu i'd rather just go with something simpler like brp

>>52310761
Not exactly. It's a flat reduction before the multipliers kick in.

Huge Piercing does 2x damage. So, (Damage-Armor)*2, not Damge*2-Armor

In that case, what type of games does gurps do well?

>>52311044
Everything from realism to action movies, in any time period.

>>52304102
>for every other system.
For which systems besides D&D?

>>52311008

Optional rule, also those terms sound like 3e or something, a sword in 4e would typically be cutting or impaling.

>>52311134
m8, piercing is for guns.

gurps in play is a lot of fun, but it does require a lot of up front investment from both the gm and the players.

"casual" players will probably need quite a lot of help with character creation...

>>52311173
Which makes introductory one shots with premade PC's a must

I started up a Stargate 1888 game like that

>>52303741
>It is a "supersystem" from which you select subsystems and make the system you want to game with.
>Chargen is simple point buy.

It's very front loaded for the GM if you're not using a preset game line like monster hunters, both in familiarizing yourself with the mountain of options you can choose, and in Cherry picking what you are going to include.

From the player perspective, how hard it will be will be based on how easy you make it for them.

I'd advise copy pasting what you're including rather than telling them to examine sources and giving them big lists of what is being used.

It's good for when you want a system for a game that you don't have a system you like for it.

>>52311173
>I'm a low IQ numale, the post
GURPS is a game written for children, idiot. If the "people" you game with can't read and follow the instructions for a children's game without being handheld they are as fucking retarded as your hook nosed kike mother is fat

>>52311200

oh yeah, starting out with pregens is probably a good idea.

also, templates templates templates!

>>52310237

Gonna go through 2 turn as if with a newbie player, no hit locations

>I'm attacking that fucktard with my sword.
Okay, any techniques or anything?
>Nah
>Rolls a 10, skill is 14
Okay your swing is good but he brings up his shield
Rolls a 6 on skill 12
He catches your sword on his shield
>Aw fuck
He feints, 10 on a skill of 12
>Oh damn, so If I don't roll better than 3 below my skill he gets 3 to hit me next turn
Naw, you are -3 to defend next turn
>oh, okay, my bad. Uh, my Cloak is pretty good, I'll use that, since it's my best defence at 13.
You can use your sword skill
>Huh, really? I don't have to use parry? My Parry's only 10 and so I don't use it much
Yeah, Parry is half your skill plus three, but in this case you'll be using your sword skill to realize he's feinting you
>Ohhh
>rolls10 on 14
>Sweet!
You see right though his ploy
>I smirk at him.
He's kinda angry. What do you do now?
>Ah man, I wanna wrap this up. All out attack.
Kay, you want a strong one or a double or determined?
>Double
Okay, your defense will be fucked next turn, but go for it! What Kind of attack? Swing or thrust?
>Imma stab him. Both times.
>rolls a 7 on 14 and a 12 on 14
Okay, he rolls his shield, 13 on 12, you hit! And the second attack, he can't use his shield any more, so he chooses to dodge, and rolls a 10 on a 9. Roll damage!
>Okay my th--no wait it's already written down on my character sheet. My Calvary saber does 1d damage each attack.
>rolls a 5 and 3
Okay, he has Leather armor on with a DR of 2, so 3 damage and 1 damage penetrates. Since you chose thrusting attack it does impaling damage, a multiplier of two. You do a total of 8 damage. That's more than half his HP and he needs to roll on HT...he fails, and falls over in shock.
>COUP DE GRAI
it's coup de grâce actually, and you take his head right off!

File: laff.png (763KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

763KB, 800x800px

>>52304045
this has to be bait!

Are there any software suites that would help with all this?

>>52313124
GURPS Character Sheet is a free program that helps with bookkeeping during character creation; it tracks the points for you and does the math when factoring in modifiers. IIRC is also automatically handles buying skills up from default, though I'm not 100% sure if it's infallible.

>>52313124
Roll20 loves macros and has built in gurps sheets

>>52313124
>Are there any software suites that would help with all this?

I'm going to second >>52313227

It's not completely infallible, a few house rules are coded in, I think in the lifting and striking ST. But it's labeled as an option/modifier.

It's also linked up to another website:

http://gurpscalculator.com

Which has GM board, character repository, dice roller, and tools for some of the more ugh of GURPS record keeping and rules, like fall damage calculator, and improvement through study.

I mean seriously, I think a few more paternons and it might end up virtual table top for GURPS

>>52310836
>sentient laser beam
what
how
elaborate

>>52317027
NTA

Basic Set p 60
Injury Tolerance (Diffuse)

>Your body is fluid or par-
>ticulate, composed of a swarm of
>smaller entities, or perhaps made of
>pure energy.

No manipulators, no legs (aeriel), Flight, super move?

>>52308967
lol, this would have been so much better

>>52310365
What about the defender's dodge, block?

>>52304102
for what fucking systems
if you're including stuff like DMGs and monster manuals, then yeah
but even in that case, GURPS has two - basic characters and campaigns
but if you're not, then no
i have literally never seen a system that actually required more than one book in the players' hands.

>>52310365
idiot

>>52310237
by default, a full step-by-step of an attack:
>attacker makes skill roll
>defender makes skill roll using dodge, parry, or block score unless the attacker rolled a crit (3 or 4 on 3d6)
>if the attacker failed or the defender succeeded, stop here
>if the attacker succeeded and the defender failed, attacker rolls damage
>subtract the target's DR from damage
>if the damage got through DR, apply wounding multipliers (if using them - 1x for crushing and pi, 1.5x for cutting and pi+, 2x for impaling and pi++ iirc) and subtract from the target's HP
optional rules include hit locations and shock, and ranged weapons have a few extra rules like rate of fire, but those all aren't hard to learn and don't slow it down that much more

for resolving actual injury
>if your HP is below 0, roll against HT when you're first put below 0 to remain conscious and after that, on every turn you act
>for every multiple of your max HP you go below 0, you roll against HT to survive
>at -5xHP you immediately die
>at -10xHP your body is destroyed
>if you take more than 1/3 HP of injury in a single attack, you suffer a major wound, which requires a HT roll vs stunning and has some other effects that i don't recall offhand

i've found that overall combat flows pretty fast in practice, despite the number of steps you may have to go through
it's worth noting you don't get like a billion attacks in a turn like in some games - you're usually limited to one action per turn, and it's often more advantageous to use some turns on aiming or evaluate maneuvers to increase your chances of hitting your target, for isntance.

It's pretty swell, but required more in the way of GM prep. What you can do is use one of the series (Dungeon Fantasy, After the End) which takes away said hassle. The system overall is very good, much better than D&D or Shadowrun mechanically.

>>52303741
There's no such thing as pic unrelated in GURPS.

That's the first thing you need to understand.

The second thing is that you need a LOT of free time to understand GURPS. A standard group will never be able to play it without cutting out like 95% of the rules.

>>52311672
So what you're saying is that its so confusing the gm will have to constantly correct everything you do?

>>52322910
Well of course. GURPS isn't like D&D where every single splat is allowed by default. You have to tell people to use what is appropriate for the campaign.

>>52322937
>as if with a newbie player
well yeah

>>52308936
A story circulates that GURPS Camelot ended up on the recommended reading list for an Arthurian Literature course at Indiana U in 1997.

>>52322940
Most of the time the proper course is "I don't allow GURPS, let's play something fun".

>>52322902
>What you can do is use one of the series (Dungeon Fantasy, After the End) which takes away said hassle.
Dungeon Fantasy's actually being spun off into its own semi-standalone RPG, which is going to take away even more hassle.

>>52310237
Three I think. To-Hit, Active Dodge(can be skipped), Damage resolution

>>52311044
Mostly simulationist, though you can do action movie-ish stuff with some of their optional rules like cinematic skills such as Guns! or Science!

>>52308936
>>52323053
Yeah, I might have been confused, because of this. Though I think it was actually a Biotech book--maybe a college prof said it was as good as the books he used in class?

>>52322937
>So what you're saying is that its so confusing the gm will have to constantly correct everything you do?

>Two corrections
>Correcting every fucking thing you do

lol.jpeg

>>52323089
There isn't anything un-fun about GURPS though. If you actually had an argument then maybe I could understand what you are saying.

File: Worst Buddha Ever.jpg (94KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 1920x1080px

>>52304045

>>52323565
Fairly plausible, actually-- I hold a biology degree (well, two now), and I remember buying GURPS Biotech out of pure admiration. I didn't know the system, I didn't know anyone who wanted to know the system, and in fact I'm pretty sure I didn't have anyone to roleplay with at the time, but the book was put together so well that I bought it as a work of art.

File: ByVAhUfCAAAycS7.jpg (44KB, 600x398px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 600x398px

>>52303741

GURPS is best.

>>52310343
There's one in every thread... well, anons, you know what to do, right? Pester this anon and hope he's the autistic sort that replies to every argument, then watch him self-destruct.

File: Primetime-Adventures-Front-Cover-666x1024.jpg (120KB, 666x1024px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 666x1024px

>>52323862
See this game, this game does fun.
Is a rela game.
With real rules.
Play it and you will see what kind of relic GURPS it.
Nothing but a corpse sustained by GM fiat and nothing more.
Compared to this game GURPS look like a 1908 Model T trying to outrun a Ferrari.

>>52326566
But GURPS does have real rules, for many things in fact. Very little relies on fiat, especially as you never need to homebrew. Try again ESL-kun.

>>52326566
What if I don't want to play a game about a TV show?

>>52326687
No GURPS has useless rules.
See the game I posted? It does what GURPS does with a looooot less rules and no needwithout a GM. Who need a GM anyway? is 2017 GM are useless.
And you know why? Because a real game designer did it hile GURPs is nothing than a patchwork of demency made by people who don't know how to write 'Game design'.

I spent about 6 months in a GURP's campaign centered around a Wuxia setting, and the impression I got was that the internal balance between weapons, magic and skills/advantages was really poor.

There's alot of excellent world building material, and the base combat mechanics are intuitive, but actually using magic/weapons/martial arts felt really unsatisfying.

>>52326842
Do you happen to remember how your GM set things up? I see a lot of newbie GMs combine powerful high-fantasy magic with gritty realistic combat and just... nigga why.

>>52326842
There's not really any balance in GURPS unless you force it. Some things *are* better than others. Usually, it's compounded by them being harder to get, but not always.

>>52326907
Only GURPS game I have played was like that and it was fun. What's wrong with high fantasy that has deadly combat?

>>52326842

It's really all about how you set up the campaign, just throwing everything in willy-nilly is a common pitfall, because by default for example weapons ARE vastly superior to punching and kicking, just like in real life. You wouldn't bring a fist to a swordfight, and unless you're enforcing special rules to make them somewhat comparable, you shouldn't try it in GURPS.

>>52327256
That doesn't lend itself well to Wuxia, in which Qi can be used to enhance fists to the point of outperforming weapons, because muh weeaboo fightan magics

If GURPS can't emulate that, that's damning for a supposedly generic universal RP system

>>52327292
Re-read what he said. He said "by default". You can absolutely have some hero punch a baddie a dozen times in a second and do more damage with each strike than a bullet would, but you do have to forget the default rules for that and use wuxia-oriented rules.

>>52327346
Whole point of GURPS is that there's no default rules, but rather you use what you need for the setting.

>>52327292
Pyramid 3.61 is full of Chi stuff you can use to make your Hand to Hand fighter letal.

>>52327292

GURPS can emulate that in at least three different ways from the top of my head, and you can mix and match from all groups depending on what tone and intensity of wuxia you're going for. From the relatively low-key pre-built skills like Power Blow and Flying Leap, to the more involved and highly customizable GM-, player- or pre-made Qi advantages, to the enforcing of special rules like Melee Etiquette rules either globally or for NPC's.

As I said, you have to get the setup right. If the internal balance was really poor you didn't use enough (or too many) of the listed options in your campaign.

I played in a session where the DM disliked d&d and wanted to use GURPS but only ever read the third edition lite, had us using a fourth edition character sheet, started us at 50 points for character creation, and threw out the only rule we ever tried to use properly (Reaction rolls). Another member of our group took over DMing and he doesn't get why we don't want to use the system.

If you want a good GURPS experience find a DM who knows what they're doing with it, otherwise it'll fucking suck
eventually I actually found and read the 4E books, looked into how its actually supposed to be played, and I want to fucking strangle him for how little effort he actually put in

GURPS isn't a system. It's a toolbox for making a system. If that's what you want, it's great. If you want a complete system, then it's not what you want.

>>52322910
>A standard group will never be able to play it without cutting out like 95% of the rules.
But doesn't that cut down on the amount of time needed to gain sufficient proficiency with it? You don't need to read the book cover-to-cover and then pick out which rules you don't need; you skim the book for rules you want and then use them. Experiment. Ask for feedback from your players. Find out what works for you and what doesn't. And in your downtime between sessions, you can look over the book more closely to see what you haven't gotten from the book yet.

>>52327716

This.
GURPS is like a fine dinner you've carefully prepared from quality ingredients (and yes, you can fuck up and spoil or burn GURPS). More complete systems are like ready2eat meals, you know what you're getting and you don't have to put in any effort.

File: IMG_1073.png (2MB, 2668x1536px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2668x1536px

The GURPS skill system is irrevocably fucked and some of the core mechanics are too much work for a single trigger pull.

>>52327889
>More complete systems are like ready2eat meals, you know what you're getting and you don't have to put in any effort.
I wouldn't go that far. It's equally possible up any system, even if it's easier to do so with some than others. GURPS requires more expertise on the part of the GM than most systems, and more importantly, a change in mindset from those other systems. GURPS is like the "advanced options" dialog in a computer program, whereas something like D&D is like an installation wizard (lol). To use GURPS well you have to understand that, as well as have some decent experience under your belt.

>>52327962
If you find yourself reading a really lengthy and complex set of rules for something simple, it probably isn't a "core rule". If you can't use those rules well, you don't use those rules. Some people can use those rules well, others can't.

>>52327962
You don't have to put in that much work and simulate literally every shotgun pellet that comes out of your gun's barrel unless you want to, but if you DO want to simulate every single pellet the rules are there, in all their detailed glory.

You can also just use more Action-movie rules with simplified range tables, flat RoF bonus depending on whether your weapon is single shot or burst, and approximate (or infinite) magazine sizes.

Also, what's wrong with the skills?

>>52328172
He want Maths to be Easy and Weapons to be Hard since Weapons are more useful than Maths and therefore should cost more.

>>52327962
Pretty sure none of that is in the core book.

>>52327201
Not deadly combat: gritty realistic combat. Combat can still be deadly if PC warriors can shatter boulders with a kick, leap to the upper branches of an old oak, and kill twelve men before the first hits the ground. The issue only arises when martials are constrained by gritty reality in terms of technique, skill, and advantage options while the wizard shits fireballs at little cost or risk to self.

Admittedly, it'll never be as bad as 3.PF due to how GURPS is structured by default, but it is something to look out for. Also like D&D3.PF, it isn't an issue in all group; due to gentleman's agreement or simply not making characters that stumble into a power discrepancy, mechanical issues can go totally unnoticed.

>>52328344
"Shotguns and Multiple Projectiles" is, as is the picture of the priest having a Doom LARP, but you're basically right. Most of those spooky scary words are tucked away in High-Tech and are explicitly meant for players than want to do some serious customization; you never interact with them unless you want to and the GM gives the okay.

>>52304225

Non-/pol/tards are starting to use the phrase. It's not a big deal.

But I like your reaction image.

>>52328816
Just tracked that down. We're talking about bits that let you make any gun from it's real world stats (not that I know if those make any sense)

I guess multiplication is hard for some people.

>>52328670
Well, you're kinda right. We had a wizard, noble swordsman (me, party leader) and a ranger. I as a swordsman had pretty hard time, but it was countered by D&D like healing magic (even if I had my organs busted and was bleeding on the ground, things could be healed relatively quickly), so it was still fun experience.

>>52308844

It handles cross genre games well. It handles custom mechanics well. It allows games that straddle concepts. It lets you develop custom mechanics to emulate specific fiction, knowing in advance that the rules you cook up will unambiguously interact and balance with one another.

GURPS does tacticool realistic but still fun to play campaigns. Any /k/ oriented modern game is best in GURPS.

You can do levelling d&d style dungeon crawler, but GURPS is at its best when you want a non leveling system. There are a lot of good dungeon crawl games, so while GURPS holds its own, you have other options than Dungeon Fantasy. So not going for GURPS is understandable.

Cyberpunk and hard sci fi? GURPS is pretty much the gold standard. The Secret Service never called Shadowrun a manual for cybercrime.

The time NOT to do GURPS is when you have a good enough system that's already configured for a setting. Like the 40k RPGs. Or when you want to roll up some characters and be playing ten minutes later. GURPS requires the GM to put some skull sweat into planning and preparation.

The idea that more limited systems are better in their niche is a misnomer. Often those limitations start screwing up the game even in its home genre as more supplements come out and complicate things. Whereas with GURPS everything is compatible and balanced out of the box... Oh, and broadly applicable. Most GURPS supplements show you how to use the existing rules to model a setting or genre, and then use the space they save to give you top tier background information.

The core system itself is very simple and easy to use. The key is to be conservative about which and how many rules options you turn on.

>>52308936

I heard that Bio Tech was cited in a syllabus, but can't confirm it.

GURPS Transhuman Space: Under Pressure was coauthored by a doctoral student in astrophysics. He used material from his dissertation, so the formula for water pressure on other worlds of the solar system (including Titan's ethane lakes) beat his own journal article to print.

GURPS Traveller: Far Trader was coauthored by an economist. I've seen people pointed at it for space games that have nothing to do with GURPS.

>>52328227

How often do people need more than a point or two of mathematics? Whereas the melee skills benefit greatly by throwing points into them.

>>52317027
A hooloovoo.

>>52329330
>GURPS Traveller: Far Trader was coauthored by an economist. I've seen people pointed at it for space games that have nothing to do with GURPS.

Like I said, even if you don't want to play GRUPS

>>52304163
>embrace your friend, the Generally Useful Role Playing Supplement.

>>52329521
Is not a matter on how much or how often. That Anon don't like that a supposedly useless skills like Maths cost so much or that even exist.

>>52308844
the actual mechanics are really good, so yes. I wouldn't use it for something with a lot of arbitrary stats like Maid RPG, but personally I have found the rules to be much better than D&D's and use it for standard high fantasy campaigns.

>>52327494

No, of course there are defaults. In other systems, that's all you get. In GURPS you can change them to fit a setting. By turning on wuxia-friendly options (and both the options themselves and the martial arts book gives you advice on which options are best), you can get a genuine wuxia feel.

>>52326037
3e Biotech or 4e?

>>52335046
I'm betting 3E, considering my memory

>>52335046
>>52335625
2nd, actually! Now that I'm able to check. And it really is pretty good, now that I'm skimming through it again-- I mean, I don't think I'd teach a course from it, but it has solid grasp on the technology we already have and a well-executed progression to higher tech levels. Opening it up and seeing half a page devoted to monoclonal antibodies is kind of like opening up a cyberpunk roleplaying supplement and finding a shockingly good short summary of public key encryption.

I think I'd better have a look at 3rd and 4th now...

>>52336491
I'd like to hear your opinion on the updated biotech for 4e.

>>52336491
There isn't a Biotech supplement for 2e. You mean the second edition of Biotech, from 2006? The first edition of Biotech is from 1997, and is for 3e.

Biotech 1e/1997 has a green cover.

>>52337474
Sorry, yes, the 2006 one. I was confusing the system edition with the book edition. (I never did get the chance to use it as an actual roleplaying supplement.)

>>52326749
Your posts are unintelligible. Please either learn better English, or use a spellcheck, or hell, use Google translate and write in whatever language you can actually speak, so others can make sense of your posts.

>>52336491
Shadowrun rules for computers make me want to murder things.

CompSci degree.

>>52330559
Not that Anon, but I strongly see the argument for "point costs by ingame value".

Unless I'm running a game about accountants, math isn't a highly valuable skill.

>>52338544
While I can see you point, skills in GURPS are costed on time need to lear them. This is why Math and Physics are Hard or Very HArd while Gun and Brawling are Easy. Colt made us all equal because everybody can learn to fire a gun while you need lot of years to get a Degree in Math. This aside every skill in GURPS is optional not mandatory. You don't use them you don't pick them. If you need them they are there.

>>52340429
Right.

This means that not only are two 150pt characters are not *equal* in game, it means the game doesn't even make an attempt for them to be such, or close to such.

It's not "I'm not going to put stuff in things I don't want" it's objecting to the design paradigm behind much of the game's pricing, due to the counter belief that there should be an effort to have player characters who contribute to the group close to equally, such that nobody ends up being dead weight.

>>52340555
>there should be an effort to have player characters who contribute to the group close to equally, such that nobody ends up being dead weight.
The problem is that GURPS is a generic system. That means there's no guarantee what skills are going to be most useful.

>>52340570
Most campaigns are action heavy. I agree, it involves making educated guesses, and telling the gm to adjust prices upwards for things that are prominent in their campaign, and downwards for things which are unlikely to be useful.

>>52340591
>>52340570
Whether investigation or exploration or politics are more likely to be a focus may be in question and campaign dependent, but combat is a mainstay in most campaigns.

But hell, they could even have no "default price" at all, and have the prices set based on a simple Quizlet that numerically quantizes the type of campaign the gm wants to run.

>>52338544
The thing is that you never really know when something is going to be useful, and it highly depends on the kind of campaign you're running.
I see your issue, but it's hard to know beforehand what useful and what's not.

Like last session in my campaign, where we infiltrated a hostile fortress.
Skills I didn't use:
>Guns
>Broadsword
>Brawling

Skills I did use:
>Acting
>Diplomacy
>Explosives
>Theology
>Stealth
>Throwing
>Traps

>>52340555
Equality is optional.
In a action heavy campaign, I'd be playing a sub-optimal character, and I'm completely fine with that, because I've chosen to do so. Being powerful or equal to other player character has never particularly mattered to me, and I know that if it had, I could very easily build an optimal character.
At 150 points, I can dump enough points into Guns and Brawling to be a capable fighter and use the rest of my points on something that fulfils my character concept, which I find more interesting that being absolutely equal to everyone else.

>>52340555
First and foremost Generic and Simulationist system are not meant to be balanced. Life is not balanced not even the Hero System is. The guys that spent 8 year getting a degree in math and the guy that spent 8 years shooting thing are not intrensically balanced. But like I said before no skill is mandatory. GURPS by Kromm definition itself is built with a clear rule. The GM decide what you can use and what you can't. Do you see Math in Dungeon Fantasy skills list or do you see it in GURPS Action? Nope. You don't need math there you don't use it.
You don't sit at the table and play GURPS, you sit at the table and say: What kind of Genre are going to use GURPS for? And then you make a list of skill you need and skill you don't. We are going to play Pirates of the Spanish Main? Don't put Math in the skill list and if by chance someone need a skill that has Math as a prerequisite allow it, since Math don't exist in this campaign.

>>52340671
>Generic and simulationist systems are not balanced.
Not necessarily true.

>Generic
Could be or could not be fairly balanced.

>Simulationist
Just means it represents more closely the ingame reality. That ingame reality may well have more balanced options. Math is half as useful as swordplay? Maybe math is easier to the people in this world to compensate, and this cheaper. Or maybe you just get to make a more experienced character if you're experienced in less useful stuff. Nothing wrong with that.

But yes. It's a gamist want for the players to contribute fairly equally that pushes the desire for things to be priced according to utility and power. That gamist want doesn't preclude the rest of the game being simulationist. It also means if you build an academic in an adventure game, you're probably good at a ton of different academic subjects, Daniel Jackson style, to justify your inclusion in the team.

>>52340720
Yep and the Ingame reality is that Math is an Hard skill because you need to sit down and waste your life to learn it while the guy with the Gun need to shoot cans in his backyard to get good. This is the ingame reality. Everything else is wanting a Gamist fiat that GURPS is intrensically against. Play Agon if you want everybody to be balanced.

>>52340720
Then just:
>Rule that some skills are cheaper/more expensive
Or:
>Make some wildcard skills for scientists and the like

This isn't hard.

I'd like to hijack this and ask a general mechanical question:

What's your favorite math-heavy damage system in a tabletop RPG and how does it work? I'm coding a vidya so lots granularity would be nice. Right now it's a simple
PEN & DAM vs DT & HP one.

>>52340778
>Wildcard some skills or change the skill costs
That's what I do. I was explaining the reason why some people are not satisfied with the default, since people in the thread didn't seem to get it.

>>52340810
What are you trying to accomplish with it? If you're going for realistic results with lots of damage locations you could try digitising Phoenix Command's tabular mass, but that might be hard to implement in a video game.

>>52340810
DT?

Personally I'd like multiple damage types, and different armor being rated differently against different ones, and items that aren't level scaled so much. So that level 1 sword is usable at endgame, but not your best choice.

Then when you randomly equip enemies, you can equip anything up to power level N, and whatever they drop is an appropriate item a PC *could* use.

With gamist balanced pros and cons of different combat styles. So sword and shield vs 2h sword is a question of how much extra damage is worth how much extra defense.

Then it's all tactics and meaningful choices rather than an obvious "I'm level 50 so this is the best thing to use" or whatever.

>>52340852
>randomly equip enemies
What? Are we Disgaea-esque now?

>>52340833
>What are you trying to accomplish with it?
Different characteristics of various ammo and armor types in particular.

>>52340852
>DT?
Damage threshold. If the PEN of an attack does not defeat target DT, DAM is reduced. Like in FO:NV.

>Personally I'd like multiple damage types, and different armor being rated differently against different ones
Kinetic attacks should all have the same damage type I think, with the difference between a hammer blow and a bullet impact being down to force/damage and penetration values. There'll be resistance values for other damage types like fire and whatnot.

>and items that aren't level scaled so much. So that level 1 sword is usable at endgame, but not your best choice.
I really like the idea of that. Thanks.

New GURPS DM here and I'm preparing my first session.

What is the best way to make enemies? This can include human NPCs, animals or monsters.

I know comparing points isn't a good way to determine how strong enemies are, but how do I balance them when my players have 120 points?

>>52340956
He said he's writing a Vidya. Either he's procedurally equipping them, or his variety of enemies is gonna be pretty fucking low as he has to design them all by hand.

>>52340959
>Damage Threshold.
Oh. Eww.
I understand it in a LARP setting where the math would be too impractical for better options.

Use Damage Reduction, instead. Seriously

>>52340982
DT works fine with random damage values.

>>52340959
Let me explain damage types.

Like:
Piercing/slashing/bludgeoning/chopping
Maybe another type for high speed bludgeoning like bullets.

Plus maybe heat, and cold, and corrosive, and electrical.

Why? Because you need different types of armor for all those things, and you can't protect against all of them.

It means the player has to strategically choose armor and weapons.

>>52340990
>DT with random damage
That's basically just a chance to evade all damage.
Doable, I suppose, but I'd rather use evade/Parry/block mechanics for that and have armor always protect you, and just not always be enough. Especially if you do like >>52341006, and make all armor have different ratings against different damage, and then you need to choose armor based on what you think you're gonna face.

>>52340982
>Oh. Eww.
I didn't know that was frowned upon. I'm a bit clueless about which damage calculations will work well which is why I'm asking.

>>52341006
I see. Yeah, I can do that. Still leaves the question of how to calculate final damage. I mean, a pure reduction percentage would mean a punch could hurt a dude in powered armor even if just a little bit.

>>52341098
Ah. I would reduce in flat (maybe floating point, and rounding at the end if needed for your game) numbers, not %.

So a weak hit may whiff and do no damage. A heavy hit will simply have reduced damage. So if you're trying to kill the guy in full plate with a chakram, it's never gonna happen. Better switch to the hammer (or whatever).

I'd go (once you determine if it hits)
(Damage (weapon)*(strength/skill)-DR).

From there it's a matter of calibrating the numbers for fun and challenge.

I personally like when hit chance + damage output vs enemy dr and hp works out to like ~2-3 RPK.

If your game is tactical like FFT or Disgaea, highly variable damage after a hit is widely considered undesirable by the SRPG community.

>>52341098
You haven't said much about this game.

Is it like a turn based SRPG like FFT?
Is it like a Diablo clone?
Is it like Zelda?

Obviously rounds don't apply in a real time game, then you need to measure damage per second instead, and you'd be trying to determine how many seconds per kill is good.

>>52341159
Thanks; that helps.
>(Damage (weapon)*(strength/skill)-DR).
That doesn't account for the difference between a hollow point and an armor piercing bullet though for example.

>>52341169
Real time shooter, no locational (other than possibly abstracted as a crit roll) damage.

>>52341169
If it's not turn based, then I'd suggest hitboxes over hit chance.
But then it might also take several hits for a kill, instead of a couple, because the pacing will be faster.

But different number calibration will lead to different gameplay styles, so I'd think about what type of gameplay you think would be fun, choose numbers to try to accomplish that, and when you have a small prototype, have someone else play it and give you their opinion. After that, ask specific questions so you can see what worked and change what didn't.

>>52341213
Weapon damage would be typed. Possibly multiple types, with separate damage for each type.

Whatever your attack/damage types are gonna be, have each piece of armor have a different score for each type of damage.

If you've got a gun that can take 2 types of ammo, the ammo would determine the damage type. Then (assuming you want to balance that ammo), consider having 5h3m be different damage types, and be more or less effective against different types of armor.

If real time and no hit locations, I'd suggest no crit roll either.

>>52341244
But if it's an fps like halo, you could also balance weapons by range, and ammo quantity, and other things like cooldown, all sorts of stuff.

>>52341244
Alright, that works. Thanks for taking your time anon.

>>52341260
Yw.

I'm off to bed. Good luck with your project.

>>52338544
Given that a typical use of mathematics wouldn't be under "adventuring situations", I.e. You're probably not going to decide to break out a calculator and/or slide rule during a gunfight or sword duel, you would be able to take Extra Time on your roll against your Mathematics skill, giving you a decent bonus and without a penalty. Ergo, you really don't need to put a lot of points into it to have a useful level.

>>52340555
It balances time and effort. Power balance is a side effect at best - (you're better to look at the area of expertise and compare).

To take your Math vs. Guns comparison, I'd venture that most of us use our Math skills more than our gun skills in our day to day, non hobby life. Do I regret spending my skill points in math instead of guns?

You make the character for the game you're playing.

>>52340591
I know when I GM, if I see a player that's not holding up to what I'm planning for, I'll talk to them about it and advise them to take their concept skills at a minimal value (If my game calls for physicist Mark Walhberg, let them know that that's okay.)

>>52303741
Have you tried talking to women? Just talking to them?

>>52340964

Look at your PC's relevant skills, traits and equipment, and balance against that. So for a PC warrior, you'd look at his Sword skill, his damage, his DR from armor, and his defenses, and then undershoot that for your NPCs. Everything else is unnecessary.

The book repeatedly tells you so, and you really shouldn't waste time making full character sheets. As a somewhat experienced GM, I've reduced all my non-boss enemies to literally 4 or 5 lines:
>HP
>Combat Skill (including defense)
>Damage (usually eyeballed, Strong guy wielding large sword of some sort has something like 2d+1 Cut)
>DR (one or two values only, I occasionally leave segments open, like for example a confident fool fighting without a helmet or a beast with softer hide on it's underside)
>Additional notes, like maybe a special attack or two to help distinguish them and keep the players on their toes. For the strong guy with sword and heavy armor I'd make a note saying his Move is 4 rather than 5, because he's probably encumbered (don't bother doing the maths, just say he is if you think he is).

Oh, and better to start low and increase their strength over the course of the campaign than to accidentally FPK.

>>52340964
>how do I balance thrm when my players are 120 points?

You don't.
Yes, You want your players to succeed ultimately, but trying to balance against a certain point value is dumb.

In D&D, you never have a preconception of how your players will solve a puzzle. Well in GURPS you never have a preconception of how your players will get past an enemy.


You're free to focus on the logic of your NPCs. Put enemies that would logically be around, in places they would logically be. A fight against a wild dog can potentially turn deadly for even a 200+ point character. Set the board up, and then let the players dice fall where they may.

GURPS also makes improvisation easier. You don't need to stat up every dude, just come up with 4 or 5 numbers.

>ST
>DX
>IQ
>HT
>weapon skill

So if you need an enemy off the top of your head, then you can just come up with those for it and you're good to go.

GURPS is based off reality, and reality isn't balanced. Neither should your games be.

Just play a roll under system of your own