I know this might seem like a weird request, but unsell me on

>cyborg trannies
>muh libertarianism
>sentient octopus
etc.

>>52294877
>implying the 1st or 3rd are bad things

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>>52294659
The lack of published adventure modules.

There are a handful of scenarios, most of which are oneshots designed for convention play. The devs keep shitting out garbage like Argonauts, a book full of university ethics procedures, instead of stuff that actually helps people run the fucking game.

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You're a big baby.

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>>52294659
percentile core dice mechanic.

>>52294659
The transhumanism uploaded consciousness model depends on the existence of soulstuff. It represents copies as equivalent and ignores the necessary contingent formation of being based on its material.

The existence of TITANS as the space cthulhu boogieman of the setting. They leave them so vague that they may as well have just been man made super weapon that humanity collectively accidently the earth with. That an the tie in to Gates which are similarly silly as they leave those intentionally vague as the TITANS and all we have are a bunch of slug aliens who go "Don't do it, it's bad news"

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>>52295424
>The transhumanism uploaded consciousness model depends on the existence of soulstuff.

What? No it doesn't. Uploading and downloading minds is done by scanning the information contained in the brain and duplicating it somewhere else, not by moving around the user's "soul" or "katra" or any other Cartesian Dualistic nonsense.

>It represents copies as equivalent

No it doesn't. It's just never brought up explicitly in the setting because almost everyone who had reservations about resleeving technology was killed in the Fall rather than egocasting off of earth. Thanks to survivorship bias, everyone who still exists doesn't care that egocasting and restoring from a backup 'kills' the current subjective instance of themself (outside of a handful of ways to "resleeve with continuity").

>>52294659
Fuck off retard

>>52295545
I think that ties into what >>52294976 is saying. The idea seems to be to let you define those things yourself as your game needs, but without any direction, it doesn't exactly do much in terms of actually running the game for most people.

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>>52295545
>a bunch of slug aliens who go "Don't do it, it's bad news"

>>52295657
>What? No it doesn't. Uploading and downloading minds is done by scanning the information contained in the brain and duplicating it somewhere else
>not by moving around the user's "soul" or "katra" or any other Cartesian Dualistic nonsense.

That's the point. Conceiving of data as separate from a processor is dualism; and the brain doesn't appear to be dualistic to modern science.

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>>52295717
Okay, but unsell me on the setting first.

The singularity is Christian transcendence reflavored as "nonmagical" IQ fetishism.

Exponential processes aren't a technical boon, but a natural trend towards self-destruction - bacteria over-multiply and starve, matter spirals into black holes, stars go into fusion and then supernova. Hence transhumanism is neither human, nor life-affirming. It's actually a death-cult (which transhumanists subconsciously recognize through the glorification of self-abnegation, which is also a re-expression of transhumanism's inherently religious nature in parables such as "an acorn growing into an oak tree").

Survival rests in admitting that anything a transhuman demigod can do, a Turing-equivalent Apple II can do with more patience. Once this mathematical truth is clear; the rational decision is to avoid inherently destructive exponential trends and maintain harmonious homeostasis for steady, verifiable progress, which transhumanists (too afraid of death to bequeath a role in progress to their children, and too selfish to credit their ancestors contributions to civilization) crudely demonize as "bioconservative."

>>52294877
>any of these being a bad thing
???

>>52296403
>That's the point. Conceiving of data as separate from a processor is dualism

No it's not. I can copy data from one place to another using electrons without physically moving my computer around. That doesn't mean my computer has a metaphysical soul separate from the measurable interactions of physical matter that make up the stored information.

>and the brain doesn't appear to be dualistic to modern science.

The brain is made of chemicals and electrical signals. If you can record the position and arrangement of all those chemicals and electrical signals, or a reasonable approximation, you can duplicate them, thus duplicating that brain.

>>52296590
>Exponential processes aren't a technical boon, but a natural trend towards self-destruction

You clearly haven't read Eclipse Phase if this is your attempt to disprove the setting. Self destruction by exponentially improving machines is the bedrock concept of the EP world. Read the glossary in the corebook, one of the first things it talks about is "The Fall"

>>52296590
You're trying too hard to sound pseudo-intelligent and deep.

>>52294659
steal some stuff from Delta Green
set it in space
add some leftist philosophy

>>52296655
You're misusing the term "metaphysical" motte-and-bailey style.

Data is either its own layer of abstraction or not; and you are claiming it can be separated from a material entity, stored in the form of practically indestructible energy and mathematics (spiritual form), and then reincarnated into flesh.

That's what dualism is.

In real life, we know that the brain is not a Von Neumann architecture. Its material structure and processes are indistinguishable from the thing itself. There is no "data layer" and cannot be unless you capture a screenshot of the entire thing, including ongoing processes, down past the molecular level. That's something nanotechnology is physically incapable of doing due to entropic limits. It's too slow, too hot and can't read the EM and chemical processes-in-being without disrupting them.

You would need magic; which is what transhumanism is about - IQ is magic, so it can break physical laws.

>>52294659
The whole TITANS, Exsurgents, ETI, Pandora Gates, and related stuff seems like a weirdly soft sci-if thing to have in a game that seems to pride itself on being somewhat harder than normal. It all seems like an excuse to give Firewall a reason to exist.

Oh, and Firewall existing is kind of dumb, why does there need to be a dedicated faction for player characters?

>>52294659
>Hand (foot) job

>>52296677
>biocon 101
>posthumanism 101
>"trying to sound deep"

How does it feel being unable to pass an ideological Turing test for the 2 main alternatives to your movement?

>>52296879
Pretty good, seeing as that's my first post in this thread and I don't give a shit about "transhumanism" or this shitty game.

I'm just observing how much of a pseudo-intellectual chode you are.

>>52295657
It's one of the bits I like about the setting.
The existential stuff.

Real humans are nearly all gone if not already extinct.

Everything else is just a swarm of electronic ghosts haunting humanities graveyard, all convinced that they're still living, honest to goodness humans.
They're electronic uploaded patterns, sleeved, forked or otherwise, simulating once living creatures.
The titans won, hardly anyone survived and all that's left are the recordings playing out their creeping madnessess they cling on with the most tenuous of grips to a shaky concept of humanity built from memories that aren't even their own.

To an alien intelligence with a similar psychology to humanity, Sol would be one fucking spooky system to visit.
Like a system wide version of disneys 'small world' ride complete with autonomous animatronics who believe they're on the ride too.
All in all, probably best avoided.

Maybe the ones that view what happened as a birth of something new will become more than a vestigial remnant of humanity.
Something entirely artificial and unbound by that legacy in any way.

Maybe that's what the titans wanted.

Tldr.
I shouldn't take my tablet with me to the john.

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>>52296947
Its just used two fairly widely recognized academic assessments of contemporary speculative fiction. If that's too intellectual for you I brought pictures.

>tfw all the accelerationists pussy out before becoming openly annihilationist

Some of the fans think that snakepeople that have the upper bodies of children and prehensile penises are appropriate morphs to publish on the official forums, and the moderators on the official forums are basically OK with people posting monstergirl-loli-futa-with-prehensile-penis-Magical Realm on their forums.

That's a pretty good reason not to get into this game.

>>52296811
>stored in the form of practically indestructible energy and mathematics (spiritual form)'

That's not metaphysics. Like, data stored on a harddrive is not metaphysical in any usual sense of the word. Magnetized bits are absolutely material.

Now, you're right when you say that Eclipse Phase handwaves the difficulty of creating an "exact copy" of a human mind, but that doesn't make it dualistic, it just means it's science isn't diamond-hard.

It also takes a somewhat mind-body dualism approach to things by treating the body as largely irrelevant to the mind, but that's again more of a failure of neuroscience than including metaphysical bullshit.

>>52297649
Why would you care if you're a "real human" or not? It's not like you're a static replica of a person; you're an independent, thinking, living (well, synths, but...) being. What I mean is, even if you're a copy of yourself, you're the you that matters now and it's no excuse for not making the most of it.

>>52297793
>exhumans and Jovians team up to battle Firewall agents
>plot title: The Accursed Share

If this hasn't been played yet, it deserves to be.

>>52296811
>motte-and-bailey style.

Seriously? Fuck off back to >>>r/rational, kid

>>52296590
>This is what Jovians actually believe

>>52296849
Basically just for ease of getting into bullshit and getting gear for said bullshit. You could pretty easily just have random space adventures.

>>52298390
rhizomatic/10 would play

>game where everyone plays Titans warmachining it out beyond the gates
>plot title: 1000 Plateaus

mostly off topic but I really want to run a Cyclonopedia Delta Green game some day

>>52294659
I feel like there's no real way to get into the setting if you're not already intimiately familiar with transhumanist fiction like Altered Carbon or so on. It has almost no sci-fi touchstones to familiarize yourself with the setting, so it's kinda hard to get into the mindset of a transhuman from a 21st century perspective.

It's not Transhuman Space.

>>52294659
When you die you still die, but an identical twin of yourself is created that thinks they're you.

Also, the writers couldn't come up for a satisfying reason for Seed AIs to ever actually become a problem so they just said aliens did it.

>>52294659
>Supposedly all world governments completely fail ten years after the fall.
>the game emphasizes switching bodies, but that's actually a very costly and somewhat risky business
>super secret club firewall makes little to no sense in a setting that brags about it's all encompassing surveillance and multiple groups that go around exposing things for shits and giggles.
>Multiple anarchist societies that literally use upvotes as currency, rule of law is decided by masses, and that anyone can print off WMDs somehow haven't had a case where they blew themselves up or devolved into a hellhole.

>>52297813
>He doesn't wanna be a loli-lamia futa robo with 16" hemipenes

>>52301116
>literally use upvotes as currency
Capitalist scum detected. This is such a hilarious misinterpretation I'm inclined to believe this is bait, but I'm biting anyway. Your head is too stuck in our current economic model of precisely gathered and measured wealth to understand the notion of a reputation economy. Rep is not a currency. For fucks sake the whole point of these anarcho-communistic systems is that there is no fucking currency.

>>52302031
>For fucks sake the whole point of these anarcho-communistic systems is that there is no fucking currency.

>you earn rep for working
>you burn rep to acquire goods and services

How can anarkiddos be so delusional?

>>52302247
well they believe in a system that advocates for a society with no rules yet also want every one in that society to share resources so no one has more wealth then anyone else. I think it's safe to say critical thinking is not their strong point.

>>52302247
>you earn rep for working
This is only partially accurate at best. Earning rep is more complex than simple putting in an allotted number of hours doing menial labour or whatever. It's gained through general societally constructive behaviours, proving yourself to be reliable, trustworthy etc. Yes that can include work but also many other things.

>you burn rep to acquire goods and services
This is where you fucked up. It's stated time and time again that rep is not fucking burnt every time you use some resources or services. Again, the whole fucking point of the rep economy is that there is no currency (meaning, no resource which can be gained, kept, and later spent for whatever). Goods and services are freely available to all members of ancom communities at all times. The only time rep is burned is when a service request is extraordinary or for an absurdly valuable/large quantity of resources. These are like the kind of shit a firewall agent might ask for but nothing the average dude is ever likely to need.

>>52302274
>advocates for a society with no rules
Oh OK so I am being baited. That's fine. As long as it's clear where we stand.

For the record, no that is not what anarchy is at all. There are likely to be a great number of rules, however these are collectively agreed upon, rather than being handed down by a higher authority. It's really not that hard guys.

>>52302274
>>52302247
Yeah that's what I thought motherfuckers, slink off back to your wage slavery.

>>52302347
>This is only partially accurate at best.
Read Transhuman.

>>52302666
Slink back to your mother's basement and off this site. You need to be 18 to post here, kid.

>>52302274
>belives in the no rules meme
I take it you failed philosophy 101? There are very few anarchist systems that have no rules, illegalists, egoists and primitivists are the main ones. Most other ones want a society which you are not forced into. In other words "dont like the rules? You are free to fuck off to where you like them." if you want to talk anarchism at least read some kropotkin befpre talking bullshit. But you got the itopian part right

>>52294659
its basically Pink Floyd's "The Machine" in space.
If you dig Pink Floyd, you'll dig Eclipse Phase
If you don't, you won't.

>>52302697
>>52302366
>if I reply twice, he'll think I'm two different people!

>>52295424
so you're saying every copy is about half as sharp as the original?

>>52302691
Nice retort. I love how you utterly fail to address either of the points I made. Obviously I have read transhuman in depth and at no point does it state anything like you said.

>>52302716
Bro >>52302697 is not me. Though he makes very good points. Conquete du Pain is recommended starter material.

>>52302728
>>52302366
>>52302697

I can barely hear you around that mouthful of dev cock

>>52297793
Annihilationist has a nice ring to it.
An almost spiritual overtone to the word.
"The Church of Anniliation"
Sounds awesome.

>>52302749
>no, I'm not samefagging! but that guy who agrees with me is totally right!

Fuck off, you aren't fooling anyone

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>>52296677
Yeah, I don't get why a certain type of pseudo intellectual gets soooo mad about transhumanism.

Transhumanism obviously attracts its own brand of pseudo intellectuals, but they at least don't take themselves so seriously and they don't attack anyone for thinking differently.

>>52302760
It also sounds really "clean" somehow.
Like death and gore and all that sound awful,
but annihiliation sounds like you'd be dead b4 you know it.

Maybe there is that split second of pain that registers for a nano-second before you die, an eternal scream or lament as you're body is torn to sheds and forced into impossible positions and proportions... buy, you know...

hey, new idea, Ghost Hunters in Fallout RPG!!! They were specters emblazened upon the background EMF radiation of the world, destined to relive their screams over and over again as they died in the nuclear blast!

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I haven't seen this many assdamaged Anarkiddos in a /tg/ thread since the early days of /epg/

>>52294659
Somewhat related, this PDF should be all you need to 'unsell' yourself on Eclipse Phase

>>52302773
Who are you calling psuedo, special sue?

>>52302031
So now you see why I was pulling so many favors...

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>>52302770
Believe it or not there is more than one person in the world who has a basic grasp of anarchist philosophy. I know you'll claim this pic is bullshit html editing or a shop but whatever.

>>52302814
>no, see? I posted a picture ;_;

I don't know if you can read, but "you're not fooling anyone" doesn't mean "try harder to fool people!"

>>52302759
Yeah nice one m8. I'm still waiting on that comeback.

>>52302797
Amazing comeback. I'm totally a special sue. I'm amazed that you were able to gaze so deeply into my very being in that one post about how a certain type of edgelord who rips off all their deep thoughts gets way too mad at another type of armchair philosopher who rips off al their deep thoughts.

>>52302796
>>52302827
Oh I'm sorry is it supposed to just be me posting? Or is it a bunch of "anarkiddos"? It's hard to keep all your hyper-defensive deflections straight.

>>52302773

I hope there's porn of that lady on the right.

>>52302831
The devs are still waiting for their cum back

>>52302896
Probably not. Who would make porn of a goddamn cartoon character?

I think the best way to handle nihlism is to add a spoonful of medicine to help the sugar go down. Mix a little bit of fact in with fiction. Let people be remembered the way they want to be remembered.

>>52302907
Hah that one was actually pretty funny, fair play. You're still wrong though.

>>52302896
Time wizard! The antecedant preempts the precedent!

You told a joke backwards through time!

Wizard!

TIIIIIMEEE WIIIIIIIZARD!!!

>>52294659
Is it true that adults no longer understand puns?

My mom and ron do, but they are simpletons. (I do as well, don't tell anyone)

Thats what sexual humor must be like for a developed people. They keep going, wtf are they laughing about?

Oh, you mean *&GLARBLEFLUYNKD!&&, yeah we do that all the time. Do you not also shit in each others mouths?

Futuristic people are disgusting.

>>52294659
>unsell me on Eclipse Phase's setting.
It attracts the sort of people in this thread.

>>52302960
Someone from the 1950's just doesn't have our fluency, they can't respect our subtlety in regards to sex. Today we find things pleasurable that in the 50's would sicken most people.

Blowjob? What is this hollywood heresy? Rimjob? Why, that just, thats just... I think I'm going to be sick!!!

>>52302965
That is such a bullshit reason to ditch a game. You don't have to interact with the community, fuck. I've played loads of eclipse phase and the only people I've discussed it with are the people i played with and the jackasses in this thread. Like holy fuck just download the pdf and close your browser you imbecile, there is literally no reason to ever go on the forums or whatever.

>>52302965
Plays butt bongos

As in, if a man chooses to play buttbongos with his best friend that ain't none of my business!! LA DEE FREEEKIN DA!! I CANT HEAR YOU YOU FILTHY ANIMAL!! I CANT HEAR YOU YOU GOD DAMN FILTHY SAVAGES!!

>>52302988
Yeah, cause you're just surrounded by fucking enlightened individuals, aren't you. They are a dime a dozen where you come from, eh?

>>52297793
Does it make sense that I basically agree with the comic while also wanting to find the creator and bash their brains in with a crowbar?

YEW WANNA KNOW WHAT HAPPANED WHEN WE SENT YE BOYS OUT YONDER?! WHEN WE SENT THEM TO THE MOON?!

THEY WENT BANNANeRS! SGT fucking Skinner Syemore here SAW IT HISSELF!! I WAS SO GOD DAMN SCARED TO REPORT IT TO FDR, but TERNS OUT HE WAS ONE O DEM! We WUZ SURROUNDED BY CRAZY BIRDS!!!

>>52303021
Just keep in mind whatever is french for "it takes one to know one"

>>52302983
>Blowjob? What is this hollywood heresy?

Let's not kid ourselves, people have been putting dicks in mouths since the pair first came about.

>>52302833
Yeah, well, we can't all be healthy.

>>52303041
Just like people were eating shellfish back during Leviticus, right?

You don't know. You don't fucking know. There could be a whole god damn shellfish black market with a middle eastern dutch east india company.

>>52303041
WAAAAAHHHH!!!
RICKY!!!

LUCY, YOU FILTHY TRANSEXUAL!! I AM HOME!! NOW MOUNT ME!!!

>>52296655
>You clearly haven't read Eclipse Phase if this is your attempt to disprove the setting. Self destruction by exponentially improving machines is the bedrock concept of the EP world. Read the glossary in the corebook, one of the first things it talks about is "The Fall"
And then they turn around and relentlessly demonize the one faction that's actually responded to that fact logically rather then going "pff the fall won't happen again, stick another brain on doc".

>>52298390
>exhumans and Jovians team up
But they're polar opposites, they'd never team up. Exhumans personify everything the jovians are against.

>>52303094
So basically you want the one person dumb enough not open pandora's box?

Who would hand that box over to a child?

Its basically the hacidic creation myth all over again.

>>52303005
Hardly. But there's a large space between raving shithead and "enlightened individuals". Why are you so desperate to engage in the community of the game? Just find a friend or two who are into RPGs and fucking play it, what's wrong with you.

>>52301005
They ripped that setting off so much it's ridiculous, though admittedly that did add a fair few of their own unique touches it's just you can't miss those similarities if you're at all familiar with Transhuman Space.

>>52303125
I don't have any friends.

Also, I am no longer young.

>>52302773
Isn't it ironic that the term pseudo intellectual is itself a very pseudo intellectual one?

>>52303133
I heard that one kid committed suicide playing transhuman, like he'd been a die hard christian and reading all that shit made him so depressed that he killed himself. He was already mentally ill, really.

>>52302827
In an age when basically everyone is likely to have at least two ways of posting here (desktop/laptop/tablet and smartphone) arguing over who's samefagging and who isn't is just pointless, you can never prove it either way because they could be posting from two separate devices so how would it be able to register as the same person in anyway?

>>52303171
Can you stand underneath that fork lift?
That one, right over there?
Which lever was it?
Hold on, I just gotta find the right lever...
Okay, now stand absolutely still!
Look Up!
Say ahhhhhhh!

>>52302983
>Rimjob? Why, that just, thats just... I think I'm going to be sick!!!
Rimjobs are pretty gross, there's so many other erogenous zones you could pick why pick the one that shit passes through on a regular basis? Silly sexually active people.

>>52303186
So what you're saying is I have a disability. That I have such an utter lack of personality that I am not registering to other people as human?

You see the irony, in that statement, correct?

>>52303197
I'm right though, calling something pseudo intellectual rather then a more common insult is a great way of trying to appear intellectual when you aren't ie being a pseudo intellectual. It's ironic, calm your tits.

>>52303216
>So what you're saying is I have a disability
I wasn't actually saying that but you definitely do.

>>52301055
but the titans started their shit before eti infected them. they just became double scary afterwards.

>>52302796
Wow, that pdf is some MASSIVE misunderstanding of the basic principles and axioms of anarchocapitalism, like NAP.

The main problem with the setting is that they took bioconservatism, an interesting idea to contrast with all the other ideas in the game and provide an entry point for people to the setting given that's how most people in real life feel about these things, and turned them into a cartoonish version of the late twentieth century american religious right IN SPACE!

>>52303407
to be fair, in such a situation this is something that would at least partly happen. Bioconservatism in a hard sf is something that will most likely be look down upon, and a ostracized group will most likely fall into extremism. Look at todays world, we pretend to idolize people living "the simple life" but in reality most of the time we pitty them. Even the fucking anarcho-primitivists, guys who cant shut the fuck up about how the hunter-gatherer society is so fucking great, do it over the internet and use technology all day every day. Humans are meant to use tools to make thier life easier and upgrade themselves, it's how we survived. Just look at what people think about amishes, they consider them bat-shit insane, the bioconservatives in the world of EP are just that, space amishes

>>52303456
>Bioconservatism in a hard sf is something that will most likely be look down upon
Why? Especially in a setting like eclipse phase were rapid technological advancement just almost wiped out the species.

>and a ostracized group will most likely fall into extremism
Not necessarily, there's lots of ostracized groups in the real world that don't resort to violence.

>Look at todays world, we pretend to idolize people living "the simple life" but in reality most of the time we pitty them.
Maybe you do, stop projecting your personal views onto everybody else.

>>Humans are meant to use tools to make thier life easier and upgrade themselves
Fundamentally changing what a human being is isn't just "using tools", it's a completely different phenomenon. Look at how much damage we do with our limited little ape brains, why pour more gasoline onto the fire by giving us super powers? Oppenheimer managed to build nuke with an organ that was fundamentally designed for catching gazelles, what could you do with a brain that was designed for developing super weapons?

>it's how we survived
We used to survive by burning shit for energy, then the industrial revolution happened and now we might all be killed by the fact we burn shit for energy. Just because something was good and helpful and productive in the past doesn't mean it always will be. Weapons development went on for millenia before we developed a weapon capable of threatening human life as a whole, if the only advancement in weapons you ever saw was from bronze to iron or muzzle loaders to breach loaders would you have been able to predict that?

>Just look at what people think about amishes, they consider them bat-shit insane
Once again not everybody thinks that, you're projecting your views onto everybody else.

>the bioconservatives in the world of EP are just that, space amishes
That would be infinitely preferable to reagan administration IN SPACE!

>>52296590

You used a few thousand bucks worth of words when five bucks would've worked:

Transhumanism is just Christian eschatology repackaged for nerds, with the singularity standing in for the second coming.

Playing Eclipse Phase would mean playing with people who unironically think techno-jesus is gonna save their fat asses and turn them into angels.

>>52296590
that is actually a very persuasive, reasoned argument. That must have taken some thought to prepare.

>>52303551
What I mean is, that can't be the first time you've thought of this.

>>52303514
hey man, what do you got against big words? You some sort of dummy or somethin'?

>>52303510
>brain that was designed for developing super weapons?

yes, why build new weapons when you could invent a new "philosophy" regarding weapons. Weapons that get more precise, only kill who want them to, who target passively by deciding not who you want to kill, but who you want to live...

I could live with that.

You guys act like Eclipse Phase is the terminus point for humanity, when it is actually the birth of the species that follows.

It going to outbreed us, not outkill us. The new species will be so beatiful and so desirable that people will simply want to breed with them for being superior.

A survival trait isn't the same as a trait that makes a species prosper, traits that protect us from danger may be vestigial in new environment such as space.

You may actually have to try very hard indeed to die in the future.

>>52303556

If you can't explain something in three sentences or less you don't really understand it.

>>52303598
Or, you know, it could be, like, complicated... man.

>>52303595

>the birth of the species that follows.

In other words, the end of humanity.

>>52303595
in the future, everything will be run by homosexuals. They will be awesome and have posters of David Bowie on their walls. Everyone will wear jumpsuits and unisex underwear and we will play dungeons and dragons all day instead of going to school.

- Thee End

>>52303608
Ah, well, who cares right?
Death by snu snu.

Or, you know, competition over personal space could become so fierce that habitats are unable to sustain themselves due to the psychological pressure of 24/7 survailance and indescriminate sexual liasons being broadcast all over simulspace.

>>52303631
Wierd ass fucking people who actually prefer floating out in a tether in space because they feel "less claustrophobic"

>>52303608
humanity will end no matter what we do, there is a thing called evolution, which will wipe humanity out sooner or later, we will either become something diferent or die out. If you really want to "conserve" humanty, transhumanitism is the only way to go because it is the only thing that will pull us out of the evolutionary cycle

>>52303631
the fact is, you have to give people A LOT more space than that. You'll have people just start to suffocate while they are awake for no reason at all, their heart will stop pumping and they will just become... still.

>>52303640
Is that even desirable?

Who's to say that our extinction has to be unpleasant?

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>>52303640

>transhumanitism is the only way to go because it is the only thing that will pull us out of the evolutionary cycle

This is what crypto-Christians actually believe.

The first and last rule of evolution is that the most efficient replicator proliferates. If anything Eclipse Phase transhumans hyper-evolve or some shit, since they can manipulate their own form when they replicate to suit their environment.

The closest thing to an actual singularity that's going to happen is self-improving programs, uh, self-improving, replacing us as the most efficient replicator, and driving us to extinction.

>>52303658
It will be unpleasant because we are biologically unequipped as a species to NOT value our survival. The vast majority of people will always seek their own survival, no matter what.

>>52303658
really depends on who you ask, from my perspective (im a biologist) this is something natural, and will happen, no point in bitching about it, from the prespective of other people it might not be

Its a really interesting debate gentlemen, and I can see both sides of it.

Unfortunately, other than put some thought into it ahead of time, I tend to rather prefer to deal with these sorts of issues as they come up.

Which is to say, its a bit esoteric for my tastes.

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>>52303674

>>52303677
-General Bismark, to the Sons of Aether, during the start of WW1, in regards to technologies impact on modern warfare.

(You guys don't mind if I try to shoe some old school Mage:tA in here, do you?)

>>52303665
i never said im for the preservation of humanity, im just saying it will die out at one point or the other and if one would WANT to stop that, we would have to go for transhumanity

It's a nice setting but I never think of any fun campaign paths for the setting, something about it is both too vague and open-ended while simultaneously being too restrictive in some ways.

Still, really dig the area on Mars that is a ripoff of STALKER.

>>52294659
> unsell me on Eclipse Phase's setting.
It's way too modular, treating every different planet/system as its distinct setting. Think of the innate problems Planescape or Spelljammer have, and transplant it into transhuman cyberpunk setting - and bam! - you have everything that's wrong with Eclipse Phase.

>>52296756
Leftist? They went an-cap all the way. Space Sharia lawyer Crabs are just a byproduct of jerking to anarchocapitalist bright future with fabbers and opensource.

>>52301116
>Supposedly all world governments completely fail ten years after the fall.
Well, yeah, the annihilation of 95% of humanity would do that. The World Wars both caused major upheavals in the political landscape of Europe and they were minuscule in scale compared to the Fall.

>>52301005
This nigga is right, though. I find TS much more compelling as a setting because it's based more firmly on real life. Everything from politics to subcultural trends is an extrapolation of our modern world, whereas the polities and socities in EP are fictional, built from the ground up, and subsequently unable to borrow as much depth from real life. It's like how most fantasy settings that aren't batshit crazy dream worlds are never even remotely as interesting as actual real world history and mythology.

>>52303665
Therefore humans have to make themselves more efficient procreators. And avoiding possible modifications to body and mind if they are discovered puts you behind in the race.

>>52296590
Transhumanism isn't the same as singularitism.

>>52295218
>He doesn't know that all dice systems generate percents

>>52296403
That's computationalism, which isn't dualism, unless you want to state that computers are filled with magic smoke and souls.

>>52296811
>Electrons aren't physical entities.
I bet you think chemistry is metaphysical too.

>There is no "data layer"
It's called the "mind"
>unless you capture a screenshot of the entire thing, including ongoing processes, down past the molecular level.
Also true of a computer, except we made it easier to read the outputs.

>>52302247
>>you burn rep to acquire goods and services
That's explicitly not true.

sure is reddit/jovianrepublic in here

>itt
>extinction isn't bad, goys
>being human is meaningless
>sour grapes

>>52305958
I'm totally fine with dieing if all you guys have to die too.

>>52305958
The only reason I give as hit about extinction is because there are NO OTHER INTELLIGENT SPECIES we have discovered.
As soon as we make dogs that are able to intercept meteors and colonize space, I can finally fucking retire.

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>>52303311
>Wow, that pdf is some MASSIVE misunderstanding of the basic principles and axioms of anarchocapitalism, like NAP.

Anarcho Burgerism: literally the only thing worse than Anarcho Capitalism

>>52307504
>not wanting to explore the universe with your sapient dog
>not wanting to fill all of creation with as much and many varieties of sapient life
>not wanting to be a literal, living member of the progenitor species from which all other thought is derived

>>52310570
oh, I want to do that.
But I assume I am going to die horribly like all precursors do at some point. I just will be able to feel good about it if I made star dogs first.

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>>52302724
>>52295657
He's saying a copy isn't the original.
Uploading your memories and brain patterns up to a robot body wouldn't actually transfer you tot hat body, it would make a copy of you in that body. Your consciousness would remain in the body it was fostered in, and die with that body all the same. It's a HUGE fallacy to believe that copying your brain data over to a new host body actually transfers you to that host. Memorize and such are just electrical signals; it's the brain it's self that houses the behavioral patterns that make you you; in those signals, yes, but again those signals are just electricity.

You know how when you use a copying machine the thing you scanned is till sitting in the top of the machine? Same thing. You've now got 12 more of that thing, but the original is still a separate entity.

The only way body-transfer works is if you physically put the mind into the body, or if there is indeed soulstuff that your consciousness moves along with when your memorize and brain patterns are transferred.

I legit do not understand why people have a hard time with this one.

>>52310866
I have no fucking clue, anon. People just don't fucking understand how copies work, I guess.

It boggles the goddamn mind how they don't get this simple principle.

>>52311612
>>52310866
>I legit do not understand why people have a hard time with this one.
>It boggles the goddamn mind how they don't get this simple principle.

This is legitimately a case of 'I want this to be true, therefore it must be true'

Otherwise logical people REALLY want to believe they can transfer themselves into immortal robot bodies so they become blind to the holes in their reasoning

>>52311684
like, I super fucking want to live forever, which is why I am AGAINST the whole "upload my brain" thing.
Because my original brain is left to fucking rot.

Instead, I want to have auto repair nanites that replace my neurons with sturdier versions as they naturally die.

Much more of a reacharound bumfuck solution, but it matches the natural way of being as best as I can get it.

>>52302929
You're right, I don't know what I was thinking

The devs aren't waiting for their cum back, they know you always swallow

>>52301005

This guy has it. THS is way better. Hard sci fi, no magical psi powers, no stupid dystopian cliche plots, smarter and more even-handed social sciences. What good ideas EP has they ripped off from THS.

THS has real life futurists writing for it. Eclipse Phase has a community college poly sci fanbase which if you listen to them talk wipes away any redeeming qualities that the game does have.

And as bad as GURPS 3rd ed is, it's still better than Eclipse Phase's clunky unbalanced crap system. But you can still play Transhuman Space in 4th via Changing Times.

The one thing that EP unequivocally beats THS on is artwork.

>>52302031
>Capitalist scum detected

Here's your reason not to play Eclipse Phase.

>>52295545
*spoilers* it actually explains more stuff when you read all the books (while explaining that its entirely possible to replace this and keep the setting more or less the same, and that doing so is perfectly fine).

>>52294659

Shit game for shit people.

>>52312639
THS' major screw up was the memetics rules.

The other one was the weird AI balance, where AI are magically sentient and human-equivalent. GURPs point system isn't well adapted to a near-future+ setting either, when social connections and bigger biceps cost the same points.

A reboot of THS without the humanocentrism or universal-system baggage would be good.

>>52302247
Not the same dude, but you only burn rep if your asking for something really huge, and beyond what would normally be considered acceptable.

>>52303182
And that is a critique of the setting how? The boy had issues.

>>52311734
This is what they do in Nova Praxis, except the don't wait until your neurons die. They replace them over the course of a couple weeks. You can't even tell when you've gone synth.

>>52313060
a couple weeks is a bit fast for me, but I'm kind of a pussy about these things.

>>52313174
I would prefer your method if I had a choice. I am in no hurry. Although one of the benefits of going faster is you can back yourself up, which isn't the same as living, but at least you have a legacy.

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>>52303618

i just realized in this thread that anarcho-capitalism is the opposite of socialism, to the extreme.

i like less government, but i don't want to build my own roads.

fuck.

>>52312339
Change the record m8. You can do better than that.

>>52312674
Explain?

>>52312949
Yeah I already said that but this gibbering retard can't seem to process anything which contradicts his very limited understanding.

>>52294877
>fantastical fictional worlds must conform to muh good ol' boy worldview

Consider suicide.

>>52315775
>people who disagree with me are dumb stereotypes

Find your own exit bag.

>>52315635
>Explain?

/epg/ attracts lots of anarchists, fascists, tumblrites and other assorted manchildren

>>52316322
He said unsell him on eclipse phase not /epg/. Fuck I don't get why people get so hung up on communities being shit. Jesus imagine all the radical shit in the world you'd miss out on if you rejected everything which was appreciated by some assholes. As I said above just get the pdfs and play the fucking game with your mates. You don't need to go anywhere fucking near the forums or whatever. On an aside I resent being lumped together with tumblrites and especially with the fascists.

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>>52316539
>WAHH RESPECT MUH AUTISM
Anarchists get strung up third on the day of the rope.

>>52319696
man this picture rules

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>>52320094
Have another

>>52316539
>I resent being lumped together with tumblrites

So stop being one

>>52316539
Did you just straight up admit to being "assorted manchildren?" That's fucking low mate.

>>52319696
>>52320456
>>52320217
If you all actually used your fucking brains for a second you'd realise I chose not to address the point of "assorted manchildren" because I don't give a shit about whether you respect or appreciate anarchism in any way. I just think it's a whole new level of retarded to lump them in with fascists. And what on earth have I said that gives you the impression I'm a "tumblrite"?

>>52320703
t. assorted manchildren

>>52320723
That's funny and all but you still haven't addressed my point.

>>52320773
t. autistic manchild

>>52320810
Yeah I get it, change the record m8. You know you can't provide a real response because I'm right.

>>52321010
Anarchists are lumped in with facsists because they're both in the general, you fuckwit.

You could be playing Transhuman Space instead

>>52302796
I don''t why the community being filled with autists means the game is bad.

>>52303206
I used to think the same way before i had it done to me.

>>52303121
You mean like capitalists and communists?
British and french?
British and americans?
British and scots?
History makes strange bedfellows.

>>52294659

>Apemen in a "Serious" sf setting

>Death means nothing so the universe feels cheap and pointless

>No planets, so if you like Nature there's nothing there


Blue Planet is the superior Ideologically infused SF RPG setting. It gets bonus points because it's hard as nails

>>52316539
>He said unsell him on eclipse phase not /epg/
/epg/ consists mostly of Jovian sympathizers and other types who categorically wouldn't fit in on the EP forums. Which is where you'll find most of the anarchists and tumblrites into this game.

>>52321161
Yeah no shit, I was merely expressing distaste at being grouped alongside supporters of such colourful historical figures as Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin and Mao, as though we're just as bad. A pretty fair reaction if you ask me.

>>52325047
I know that, it's pretty fucking clear. My point was not specific to any one segment of the community. If you like a game (or any product for that matter), it's fucking retarded to discard it based on others who enjoy it who happen to be shitheads of some degree. I think EP is great, I don't give a fuck that a great deal of the players are cunts, I just play it with the people I like.

>>52302796
I have to at least give them credit on writing up War and Peace for the questionnaire.