How to get guns out of a setting

>>52289353
>People aren't going to suddenly forget how to make guns, either.

Making modern guns is actually an incredible feat of precision engineering. Making a modern handgun by, well, hand, without access to modern tools is next to impossible, or takes so much time and trial and error that it is unfeasible.

>>52289353
>People aren't going to suddenly forget how to make guns, either.
Why not? All it takes is for the people who know how to make guns dying without passing on the information to other people who don't know how to make them.

>>52289409
I'd say the knowledge on how to make guns is too valuable to not be passed down. And even if all people with that knowledge were to drop dead and the records were to disappear, people'd stell know about gubs and try to recreate them.

>>52289353
>reliant on bigger industry and supply of modern materials.
yes

Mass production of uniform parts is critical for any repeating arm (revolvers, semiauto handguns and rifles, machine guns, etc).

Ditto for mass production of ammunition. It wasn't until the industrial era that you could buy your ammo in convenient little brass tubes.

Gunsmiths in colonial New England could build the barrel, stock, and other hardware in their small workshop, but they typically still had to ship the lock (the complex firing mechanism) from Germany or England.

>>52289353
Guns were never invented in the first place.

>>52289353
>>52289376

What anon said, no way you could make a modern gun by hand.

Flint/matchlock guns, however, are very easy to make, as are lead bullets and even blackpowder. You can google up how to make one on the internet, and make it all at home today.

Smoothbore gunpowder weapons are inaccurate and slow-loading enough as to be only good for a single shot in TRPG combat. A professional musketeer could get off 2 to 3 shots a minute with a flintlock, suggesting a loading time of 30 to 20 minutes.

In a logical sense, everyone would probably go back to using blackpowder weapons. Rifling and breech-loading would be luxuries that only people with enhanced manufacturing capabilities could get away with, although if this is post-post apocalypse, quality may take precedence over quantity.

You can have your 'ancient relic assault rifle', and treat that as a kind of magic item that would turn the PCs into the ultimate skullfuckers, but I think you can see how that would become a problem. You would have to make ammo for the gun as rare as the gun itself, with inevitable requests from the PCs to get more ammo met with dismay or laughter.

>>52289409
>>52289471
If the apocalypse is bad enough, then good billet steel and uniform sheet brass will get very hard to find.

Even things like standard calibers require big industrial firms that all agree to manufacture a product to the proper specs.

Furthermore, many communities may be living close enough to the margin of survival that nobody has the time or capital to start manufacturing anything more complex than a crossbow or primitive musket, even if they haven't burned all the gunsmithing manuals for heat.

>>52289506
>You can have your 'ancient relic assault rifle', and treat that as a kind of magic item that would turn the PCs into the ultimate skullfuckers, but I think you can see how that would become a problem. You would have to make ammo for the gun as rare as the gun itself, with inevitable requests from the PCs to get more ammo met with dismay or laughter.

It'd be essentially a wand of fireballs. The non-recharging kind.

You'd also have to find it in fucking stasis or sealed in some sort of super-container for it to work after a time as long as OP implies.

Pretty much what everyone else said. Black powder however is wildly easy to make. Look into how Oda Nobunaga did it.

>>52289353

Production of gunpowder requires collection of poop and pee.

Which attracts poop monsters and the yellow peril.

so no one can produce niter in that setting without being attacked by monsters.

Everyone is forgetting something about the existence of magic though. Like, if you have access to something like the Fabricate spell, you can make the high-precision gun parts that you need.

It would still be very rare, but within the realm of possibility for nations with powerful wizards to have the capacity to create maybe one advanced modern firearm per month.

>>52289590
For the record, IIRC the Fabricate spell still relies on the wizard's skill (in 3.5 anyway). So it's only better than a smith doing it by hand if the wizard is more skilled. It can't even make complex things, only things made out of a single material.

So the wizard needs to be skilled/know how to make an incredibly complex mechanism, then cast the spell like 30 times (at bare minimum) to assemble the weapon. Then you still somehow need to make bullets, which need primers, and a very precise mix of gunpowder. Even assuming Fabricate can do that (and exists in the setting), you'd need to cast it once for every single bullet.

I could see some sort of magitech gun existing as a replacement though; imprison a miniature air elemental in a very small summoning circle that gets broken by the hammer, letting the air elemental escape, which expands in the process rapidly, propelling the bullet out.

So three possible points of failure:

1: Precision engineering & mass manufacture: without these you are looking at muskets/flintlock and maybe handmade revolvers. Plus the only reason that you used these instead of bows, was ease of training.

2: Sulfur. you need it to make gunpowder, and demons. It might simply be more economical to summon demons, than to make gunpowder for your soldiers. So the vast majority of it is appropriated by the state to be warehoused for the armys mages.

Alternatively, dimensional collapse? all sulfur in the world spontaneously burst into hellfire and became demon critters.

3: saltpeter: forgetting how to make guns and gunpowder may be silly, but industrial scale production of saltpeter is an incredibly complex multi stage process.
If you lose one of the steps to make the chemicals involved, your back to farming shit and piss to make it.
Seriously, before we worked out how to make it directly from chemicals around 1903, it was literally made with a year long process of fermenting shit and urine. That white stuff on old poop, that's what you need.
So yeah, that can put the availability of bullets to rare extremes. Especially as again the military would be hoarding it for their cannons.

Why not just go Nausicaa and have WW1/2 guns, but armor made from ancient ceramics that easily resists bullets, so melee weapons and cavalry charges are still a thing.

>>52289376
>>52289506
This is completely false. Making working firearms with basic metalworking tools isn't difficult at all. Firearms are not inherently very mechanically complex at all.

Criminals in nogunz countries routinely build submachineguns in their basements using nothing but sheet metal, springs, steel tubing and a drill press.

The limiting factor is ammunition, mass producing reliable cased cartridges is not a trivial enterprise.

>>52289376
No, it's not. For example SMG firing from an open bolt is so simple to make that almost anyone can do it andone doesn't even need a lathe (though that helps tremendously) for it. Brass cased ammunition with modern nitrate propellants would be much harder to make than guns firing them.

>>52289902
The only parts that would be remotely difficult to do without modern tools would be barrels, making a long steel barrel that's actually straight would be non-trivial and any rifling is probably going to be polygonal, since that's much easier to do.

>>52289932
>>52289902
lutymind

/k/ has come

So, even with less industrial support and worse tools, gunsmiths could build less acurate autmatic and semiautomatic weapons, but ammo would be incredibly expensive?
How reliable and maintenance friendly are these guns? They aren't going to be much help if they jam or something while shooting owlbears innawoods, after all.

The Gunpowder God/Spirit/Demon has decided to put a stop on all use of the material other than pre-approved uses. Anyone who wants to use gunpowder for anything must go through years of bureaucratic tape. Or alternatively (or in addition) the user must pay a significant amount of their life as a tax. Permanently.

idk how silly you wanna go

>>52289353
guns are easy to make. shotgun shell, pipe and a nail will get you a "gun">>52289902
>>52289993
>>52290095

unless you have access to a lot of experience and decent tools, DECENT guns are hard to make. You have to have precisely machined bolts and receivers and you have to have hardened, rifled barrels AND you have to have the appropriate reloaders.
otherwise the following issues will occur: Jammed bolt, jammed barrel, shattered reciever, shattered bolt, exploded barrel.

Google "gunsmiths darra" if you want to see what can be done by professional craftsmen in conditions that are similar to post-apocalypse.

>>52289376
you must not go to k very much. Over in Russia guards have a issue with prisoners making revolvers ( and ammo) because they uses them to door repair and things like that around the prison. The ammo is made from clearing supplies btw. The end effect is a rather shitty but working revolver with under powered ammo.

As long as the design you are going for is know to you, has few moving parts, and loose manufacturing tolerances making a modern gun is not hard.

>>52290229
"Decent" is relative.

If nobody else has guns at all the worst guns you can produce are the best guns in existence.

>>52290250
btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4qwK1KgL_s

Over in khyber pass they work with even less.

OP: don't bother with post-apocalyptic. Just do an alternate world where gunpowder never existed.

What are guns supposed to be in this setting? Clarkian god weapons? I don't understand what you are trying to do here. Honestly killing monsters with guns is half the reason I would play a post-apoc game. Otherwise why not just play D&D?

>>52290262
Are they worth the bother compared to, say, a crossbow or even a simpler designed gun, though?

>>52289376
>>52289409
>>52289480
>>52289533
Here's what I did to make guns so rare that only nobles and "wizards" owned them.

>1. WW3 breaks out; WMD's decimate human civilization
>2. humanity crawls back out of the pit
>3. WW4 breaks out; basically a redo of WW1/WW2 because there are no more WMD's left
>4. WW4 was so (relatively) destructive that guns are now motherfucking rare, and the few that have survived are damaged beyond repair and probably used as a religious icon. Also, almost everyone who knew about gun repair/maintenence died in the war

>>52289353
Guns aren't handmade anymore, they're mass produced it factories and those factories would be lost in the dimensional hyjinks. While it's true the knowledge to rebuild a factory could be retained people are going to be more concerned with staying alive then the potential that someone might someday have a glock, provided they aren't all killed before then..

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>>52289506
>A professional musketeer could get off 2 to 3 shots a minute with a flintlock, suggesting a loading time of 30 to 20 minutes.

>>52290414
Yes, because you can't have automatic muskets and crossbows suck even when compared to relatively simple muskets. Happened in real life too. When arquebus became available crossbows started to go out of fashion.

>>52290529
But you can easily make WW1/2 tier guns in simple workshops, especially when you have plenty of scrap metal and broken guns available.

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Here is a picture of MP5 clones handmade with simple tools in Darra, Pakistan. Of course they aren't of same quality as the real thing, but they still work.

>>52290642
What you can't make are brass cartridges with smokeless powder and percussion primers. You either have industialized chemical plants or you have flintlock muskets.

>>52290777
You can have brass cased ammo with black powder and of course automatics will also work with black powder. In fact you can buy black powder ammo for automatics if you want to try it.

>>52290331
My players fucked up on a cosmic level in a near-future campaign we were playing and the question of what happened to the world down the road sounded like a fun premise for a new game and setting.

>>52290836
I should mention though that some modern guns fail to cycle well with black powder loads and some others will work just fine. However one could easily build automatic weapon around black powder cartridge. Original Maxim was made to use black powder loads.

Big problem with black powder autos would be fouling of barrel though.

>>52290777
Percussion caps have been around since early 1800s (far older thsn cartridges and smokeless) and can be made from mercury. It's dangerous and toxic as hell, but doesn't require modern chemical plant to make.

>>52289353
You've already answered it. Guns need to remain powerful, convenient and rare as fuck. There should be less then a dozen people alive, counting apprentices who know how to make one or two different guns. The gun is the grand leveller, knights and wizards, kings and whores are all equal before it's ability to turn anyone into a lethal killer.

Really play up it's status as some kinda ultimate "not a mage" thing. Magic should be easier and less difficult to acquire then a working gun

>>52289353
>"gunpowder magically doesn't work anymore"
That's how I did it in my setting. The same alteration of physics that allows things like Giants and Dragons to exist also changed other things.
It's the same reason why combustion engines don't work.

One of the characters int eh setting, a High School Science teacher is trying to understand the differences and codify "new physics".

Given enough time they might be able to invent a semi-magical solution and re-create fire arms. One intrepid wizard is trying to resurrect his mustang by replacing the engine with a bound demon.

>>52290414
You can literally build open bolt machine guns with common hand tools and no welding required that shoot 600-1200 rounds per minute and have such loose mechanical tolerances that they'll actually be extremely reliable.

So yes, if there's still ammunition available the shittiest guns you can build with the shittiest tools are going to be better than bows and crossbows.

>>52291554
It's also worth noting that unrifled black powder muskets completely replaced crossbows.

Almost any gun whatsoever is superior to the best possible crossbow.

>>52291554
And how would you make primers?

In fact, why do you assume good uniform tools and materials are even available?

Sure, right now you can just by pipes that have the perfect width for whatever shells you want to fire that you can just cut to size with a powertool, and make a hammer out of a nail that's juuuust the perfect size.

>>52291662
The crossbow is silent and either more either resilient to wetness and more precise, or massively easier to manufacture both it, and the ammo it uses.

You also make the mistake of equating equipment that armies standardized to what a small group would use. Massed army tactics don't care about stealthiness and precision, but do care about the shorter training time and the psychological guns may have.

>>52291885
This post is retarded. It's like you didn't even read the posts you responded to and instead just made up some of your own nonsense and responded to that instead.

>>52291885
>And how would you make primers?
By putting mercury fulminate in a little brass cup?

>>52291885
>I don't understand guns: The post

>>52289353
Im always a fan of the idea that guns and weaponry advanced to the point where durability and ruggedness were no longer necessary traits. So when the apocalypse happened most small arms were broken beyond easy repair.

>>52292335
under what circumstance would a military not require weapons to be durable, since they're inherently going to be subject to rough use, harsh environments and stupid operators?

>>52291885
Hand cannons (like medieval hand gonne) and zip guns (like slam fire "shotgun") are far easier to make than crossbows.

>>52292335
Problem is that when you have tons of broken guns, it's easy to make new guns out of them. Things like barrels and bolts (which happen to be hardest parts to make) are very unlikely to break unless somebody fired too hot loads.

>>52292054
No problem. You just have to go out back and dig up some elemental mercury and some nitric acid. You do know how to chemically refine mercury, right? And how to make nitric acid?

>>52292584
Actually yes, but I'm not actually sure what the point of this question is.

>>52289353
I have one suggestion for the setting.

Shields (magical or technobabble) that only work on sentient lifeforms. The shielding device only works if it is in direct contact with the sentient being. The only way to bypass such shield would be with another shield. So you can still punch people or use specially designed melee weapons (not to long) that can focus your personal shield. Guns are less effective because bullets are not connected to a shield and therefore do not pass other shields.

Guns still have use as a stun weapon or for anti-material purpose. You can't kill the pilot of a vehicle but you can still wreck the vehicle.

On another note, you can worry less about civilian casualties in war. Just drop shield devices on them if they don't have them already and carpet bomb the place. Dig out the civilians with buldozers.

>>52292779
Why not just have Nausicaa style armor made from ceramics or whatever pre-war super material that can't be produced anymore, but is easily salvaged from ruins and less resistant towards melee attacks than bullets.

>>52289353
Any rabid gut tearing critter worth its salt has a thick enough hide that only very high powered projectiles like those of expensive and rare guns or cannons are going to seriously harm it. Any mage worth his half-assed air handjob and bat guano is going to have an impulse rejection shield up so that only sustained forces like sword swings and hammer drops from big burly oiled up homo conanis types can deliver. Handguns could be machined and maybe they're used for petty interpersonal conflict by the peasants but they're rare enough and worthless enough not to matter.

>>52290741
Define "simple tools". Would a primitive workshop have something similar?

>>52292875
Pretty much a lathe to work metals is all you need.

>>52292875
Those obviously require actual an actual factory with a fairly robust manufacturing process so they're not actually a good example.

The actually simple to produce things people have talked about, like open bolt SMGs, single shot zipguns etc only require very simple tools. Specifically files, chisels, hammers, drills and vices. No power tools are needed.

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>>52289376
False-ish, I can make mac10 clone with a drill, drimel, spare steel thats angled or boxed. A pipe, its not going to be "barreled" but as an open bolt smg it dumps 9mm or .380 ammo super fast and will hit well at 100 ft.

Another thing is if the game takes place in america. Hahahahahhahaha. There are more known guns than people, not counting ones made at home, illegally imported, reported stolen and never recovered plys all the LEO, .MIL, state, county, federal....heck the dept. Of ED has guns...
If the "apocalypse " starts happening/happened every parts kit in America is going to be built, ammo is the hardest part to make but pulled brass cassings can be reused 5 to 8 times safely, 10 if you gotta, and cut down/stretched/formed to be reused for different calibers. Eventually assuming no new production only the case bases can be cleaned up and cut, attached to cardboard and paper hulls. That can only be used reliably in bolt/break action guns.
Black powder hand cannons are insainly easy to make. Like no welding required.


Tldr: guns are not rocket science. Look up slam fire shotguns, "shovel ak"...ect.

>>52292875
>Would a primitive workshop have something similar?
You need to specify what tools a "primitive workshop" has in it for it to be possible to answer this question.

>>52293020
No, they don't. Google Darra+gunsmiths, these guys are like old times village blacksmiths that make guns. Of course they have things like lathes for machining parts and tools to make rifling, but nothing special like factory scale CNC machines used to mass produce guns.

>>52292764
If you actually knew, you'd get the point.

People underestimate the vast reservoir of infrastructure and expertise that underlies even a 19th century munitions industry. It takes far more than being able to quote wikipedia factoids. You need modern (for the period) mining and refining. You need expensive chemical production facilities. You need high-precision, high-strength tools to create the tools you need to even start this project. You need a trade and transportation infrastructure to tie all your supplies and workers together. And above all you need a deep pool of skilled, educated non-agricultural labor to do all this work.

And if you have all that, then by definition you're not living in a post-apocalyptic medieval-ish wildland.

>>52289590
>>52289646
He isn't using 3.5 magic necessarily, unless he did mention that above and I'm not reading.

But I agree, there probably would be some way to do that.

>>52290870
But why no guns?

>>52293086
You're forgetting the fact that apocalypse leaves behind tons of srap metal, tools etc. Humans ridiculously capable of building lucrative weapons industry out of scrap. There's many examples of this in third world countries and their conditions are pretty similar to post-apocalypse.

>>52293074
They have molded plastic parts. Which require a supply of plastics and some actual manufacturing to produce. Obviously that's not something hugely significant, but it's what I was referring to.

>>52293086
>If you actually knew, you'd get the point.
You're missing the point, you asked the question responding to a post that already said that the usefulness of guns was conditional on ammunition being available.

>f there's still ammunition available the shittiest guns you can build with the shittiest tools are going to be better than bows and crossbows.

And then proceeded to ask how to make primers as if that somehow said anything at all about the manufacture of ammunition.

>>52293227
Darra gunsmiths actually often reuse parts from other broken (industrially made) guns and don't make things like plastic stocks themselves. Don't see why this wouldn't happen in post-apocalyptic conditions though.

>>52293328
>Don't see why this wouldn't happen in post-apocalyptic conditions though.
I assume it would as well, but the retards in this thread seems to be under the impression that the post-apocalyptic environment contains no tools or materials that previously existed.

>>52289353
gunpowder shortage

boom done

>>52292834
Because i did not know what nausicaa is.

>>52293383
From OP
>several hundred to thousand years down
Don't fucking tell me you think our current tools would last that long in the event of a nuclear fallout or whatever leads to an apocalypse scenario.

>>52293566
Don't fucking tell me you think human activity completely ceased for that entire duration.

Please think with your brain. What do you think the condition an availability of tools and materials was like one day after the apocalyptic event? Do you think that during that entire 100-1000 year period nobody thought to produce new hammers and chisels, did nobody produce any new industrial infrastructure at all, did nobody make anything?

>>52293566
In that case you'd have organized society enough to build new tools though. Remember that it took only few hundred years for us and our post-apocalyptic successors will be armed with our knowledge and scraps making things farv easier.

That doesn't mean society can't be feudal and tech has to be very advanced, but it would be close to impossible for tech level to be much lower than 19th century (which would enough for relatively modern guns) unless the apocalypse somehow mutated humans to be retarded.

>>52289353

Its possible to assume that a post apocalyptic civilization might have trouble rebuilding to the level that modern weapons could ever be rebuilt again.

Consider fossil fuels. We've used all the supplies of easily accessible ones already. If you destroyed civilization today its not clear there are enough still in easily reached deposits that we could ever rebuild the technology that could access the more hard to reach deposits.

That means no energy source in existence with higher density than burning wood or charcoal. No internal combustion engines, no tractors, more people working the land, and no factories run off anything more than primitive steam of water power.

You could easily use that to eliminate large amounts of high quality steel, which means no widely available modern guns.

Also guns can last for very long time and still work. I have 5 shot Forehand revolver made in 1880-1890s and it still shoots .38 S&W just fine despite being equivalent of saturday night special during it's time.

>>52289353
>>52289376
>>52289932
>>52289902


In reality guns are easy to manufacture. The best way to make guns rare in your setting to make the high strength steel and aluminum needed to make modern guns rare; like they never rediscovered modern steel forging techniques so if you want a gunsmith to make you a nice gun you need to scavenge for high grade steel and aluminum stock from before the fall. The other thing would be making ammo hard to get or at least the smokeless powder used in modern ammo hard to make, that way you could see old school muskets an breech loaders that use lower pressure black powder loadings as a common if expensive weapon since making a musket barrel is harder than making a sword. While rifles that would compare to military grade stuff now are either passed down for generations or only made/repaired by highly skilled artisans with ancient knowledge and access to the high grade metals used in construction, and high purity level chemicals needed for the non corrosive clean burning powder necessary for gas operated semi auto weapons to work right.

Couldn't you just say that magic causes a lot of ambient energy to be thrown around? So if you have a gun they could realistically make all your ammo ignite with minimal effort.

This would make mundane firearms and ammo risky for people that expect to run into wizards and magical beasts. Add to that the existence of shielded guns/ammo being available but expensive.

>>52293809
You can have infrastructure to make WW2 level (and some more modern too) guns with steam engines.

>>52293922

Without coal you'd have a hell of a time getting much more than small amounts of crucible steel. Making a large industrial era factory would be extremely difficult.

>>52289353
Consider this: firearms have existed since the 13th century in some way or another and have possibly existed earlier than that. If your setting has technology comparable to 13th century Europe, and you couple that with the fact that guns once existed, stories may still be told of firearms, texts may still exist somehow, etc., and you'll likely have guns on par with or better than 13th century firearms.

In order to have them be less widespread, you'd have to include things like >>52293809 or >>52293416 although I don't think it's quite as simple as saying 'shortage'. You could include something like the Japanese "sword hunt," where the army would hunt down weapons owned by peasants in order keep guns scarce. Or that people just forgot about them somehow.

Similarly, here's another thing to consider: you don't necessarily need to explain everything. Explaining things extensively without the proper justification (e.g. you just can't make guns without modern tools!) can just make you sound stupid.

>>52294000
Coal isn't even close of running out though unlike oil. Especially considering that we are moving away from coal and super high tech society wouldn't probably use it all.

>>52294058

If you're talking about deposits you can easily reach without modern technology you severely limit the coal you can get ahold of. The shallow deposits have been exhausted a long time ago, getting what's left takes a lot more effort.

>>52289353
You are giving yourself a ton of extra work for no reason. You can have post apocalyptic fantasy settings with magic, weird creatures, wastelands wanderers and cool survival stuff.

What are you gaining by making a post-apocalyptic setting if you're not gonna have guns anyway?

The THINGS you want can most likely be accomplished with fantasy means.

>Robots and deserted military bases
Golems and abandoned fortresses and sorcerer's towers.
>Blasted landscape full of weird radiated critters.
Magical cataclysm and blablah magic leaking through into the real world warping shit.

And so on and so forth.

I don't think there's anything to be gained from making it postapocalyptic if you're not gonna have any rusty kalashnikovs anyway. All the other cool stuff can still be there, without this glaring, obvious, sticking out like a sore thumb handwaving "btw guns don't work because reasons" idea.

Postapocalyptic fantasy also has the benefit of you being able to bullshit more without it feeling like bullshit.
"Btw, nobody can make guns, because, eehh reasons" is never going to feel right, but "btw, people can't make cool magical shit any more because the magic got used up/went away/nobody is born with the gift will sound totally reasonable to the majority of fantasy dorks.

>>52293316
Primers can be made from strike anywhere matches, or mercury, or armstrong compound, magnesium..... other stuff, old primers can be re used if you take alot of time.

Ive made .357 bullets out of hose hold goods and a brass I found at the range to prove I could.

>>52294186
>I don't think there's anything to be gained from making it postapocalyptic if you're not gonna have any rusty kalashnikovs anyway
I entirely agree with this.

Also even hundreds of years after the apocalypse you'd still occasionally happen upon a barrel of cosmoline with half a dozen SKSes or nuggets in it on occasion, yielding near perfect condition, fully working modern rifles.

>>52289353
Why not actually just make it so gunpowder (and select other modern amenities) straight magically doesn't work anymore? Like modern man nuked the world so hard that the Gods came back and took away all our toys until we learn to play nicely in the sandbox again?

If you set it a 1000 years after in a post-apoc setting how does it matter if were not returning to modern life?
If we cant remember how to make guns, would we still know germ theory? Are we still bleeding people to heal them? What part of post apocalyptic society is still pre crash?

Like are you envisioning people with top hats riding horses charging against some on riding a beat up Harley? What are you going for exactly?

Dies the fire or the emberverse got rid of guns by saying magic happened and electrical power, internal combustion engines, gun powder stopped working. Huge hand wavery factor but it is never explained the exact laws that changed .
Bio weapons like vx gas and anthrax still work by the way. Its the plot if the second books, but 100 years in and if the laws of nature allowed compression of gasses enough to make gasoline and gun powder work everyone would go back to it. Becuase some one being strong and fast with a spear telling you to plow the fields sucks ass.
Guns made people equals, slavery would return in 2 months to world if they are gone, at a minimum feudalism would be back.

If you set it 1000 years post fall what the point, it doesnt take a 1k years to return to civilization. If we didnt return , then its swords and sorcery with broken down sky scrapers in the back ground.

>>52296543
You know there are still over 100 years old nuggets that still work even though they haven't been stored away in cosmoline? Simple guns like that last really long.

>>52296784
Of course, comrade, nugget is invincible.

>>52293566
the polymer in a Glock will, unless it has been exposed to UV light that whole time. Nitrided finishes will also last a few centuries.

>>52293809
>water power

You now realize what powered the industrial revolution before steam engines. Fortunately, the world's steel supply hasn't disappeared! It's pre-refined and moved to the surface, waiting for you.

>>52289376
>Making modern guns is actually an incredible feat of precision engineering. Making a modern handgun by, well, hand, without access to modern tools is next to impossible, or takes so much time and trial and error that it is unfeasible.

I know you've been kind of dog piled but I think it's important to repeat that you couldn't be more wrong here.

There is an entire industry in the Tribal area of Pakistan in which modern pistols and rifles are reliably made with hand tools. And not just sheet metal boxes with pipe barrels, but Kalashnikov clones and modern pistols that actually look like they came from a factory.

>>52289353
>>52289376
>>52289409
>>52289480
>>52289506
>>52289533

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRte65F_KRk

>>52289353
How about left wing religious fervour gripping the world... Then only the police will have guns

>>52298303
The police, the secret police, and outlaws...

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>>52289353
You can make an adequate "slam-fire" shotgun from two pipes and a nail. Making a shell to fire would be more difficult, but not impossible to do. It would probably blow up in your face though.

These are actually fairly effective (and relatively fast) weapons because you don't need to "unload" the spent shell, just switch the pipe around and load another one, shooting the spent shell with the next round.

>>52289353
>People aren't going to suddenly forget how to make guns
Why not? There are countless technologies that have been lost during the collapses of empires. Some are not discovered again for centuries. That was the foundation of the middle ages, the loss of huge amounts of knowledge that set back culture and technology for generations. Some lost techniques have never been recreated. For instance, they are still not sure exactly how Greek Fire was made, or how to recreate the original Damascus Steel.

I would say if the devastation is significant enough, there is a good chance that the technology behind gunsmithing would totally vanish after a hundred years or so, one all the existing guns and artisans were broken or dead, and could take decades or centuries to be redeveloped.

>>52298959
Guns are far too simple to be lost like that. Gunpowder maybe, but even that's not particularly complex.

In the AMC show Into the Badlands, the existing power structure has banned all knowledge of how guns work for decades. Nobody remembers, so everyone kung-fu fights instead.