/osrg/ OSR General - Adventurers New and Old Edition

>>52284962
Time to shill

www <dot> kickstarter <dot> com/projects/autarch/heroic-fantasy-and-barbarian-conquerors-collection

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How do I get OSR players?

I tried to recruit for a homebrew, but it's not working. Maybe I should suck it up and fun White Box or something.

>>52284996
The art seems nice.
Maybe I'm missing something on the page,
but are they both ACKS supplements?
Is the first for something else?

>>52285028
OSR or not, it's impossible to recruit for a homebrew.
Pretend you're making a group for a published system.
Don't tell them otherwise. Transition after a few months.

>>52285031
Their both ACKS books running on the same kickstarter

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>>52285063
>it's impossible to recruit for a homebrew.

Yeah but y tho

Should I back kickstarter stuff or just wait for someone to upload it to here?

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>>52285028
Recruit non-gamers.

Seriously, between Community and Stranger Things you can get all sorts of people interested in "Dungeons and Dragons".

They don't know the difference between your homebrew and a popular game. They just want a good, fun time.

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>>52285091
Q u a l i t y A s s u r a n c e
e c n a r u s s A y t i l a u Q
or a sense of it, at least.

Would an OSR with a dice pool work?

>>52285099
Not even the shill, but back it if you want it.

>>52285147
We were throwing a hissy fit about trying to do that last thread:
>http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2016/09/the-glog-wizards.html

Also, not (mechanically) OSR but, Torchbearer uses dice pools IIRC.

>>52285099
Considering we don't have Blood in the Chocolate

or even the two free supplement, one even after a year. I think backing the kickstarter is wise.

>>52285168
Reading last thread atm

>>52284981
>it's just an adaption of The Black Moon Chronicles, a French comic series of the authors D&D campaign. He was going to write the Original OA supplement and eventually the guide to the western half of Oreik, but TSR went through it's first crisis before he could.

Is this translated anywhere? This comic sounds interesting as hell.

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>>52285175
Good good. Post if you've got questions or concerns.

>>52285110
Do you know the artist for this?

>>52285147
Sure, I can't see why not.

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>>52285395
Sorry, no. It's from a relatively recent drawthread.

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>>52284996
[grumble mode on]
> brings the flavor of heroic fantasy to your favorite role-playing game
What did we have before? Flavour of Venetian guild intrigues or of greedy Sogdian magistrates? Maybe we were playing Judge Dee campaigns, investigating cases of three-headed flying monks?

I want guild of thieves stuff, you assholes. Smuggle silk and wine. Bribe government officials and poison tax collectors. Sell faulty magical artefacts to intrepid (and retarded) adventurers. I need more rules for this, not twelve new ways you can stab dragons.

> Subtle but powerful, eldritch magic brings a new arsenal of effects into your game. Low-level eldritch casters can infuriate their foes, summon minor demons from the Outer Darkness, or call wolves from the forest. High-level eldritch wizards can call giant eagles from distant mountain lairs, lead foes into madness through corrupting dreams, or unleash the hounds of hell to hunt down their enemies.
Yeah. Summoning demons and *ahem* natural allies is a new effect. Also mind-affecting spells. Wooo.

> A new way of casting spells, spellsinging, that allows characters to spontaneously weave together new spells on the fly.
It better be polished-up magic from Black Company (aka True Sorcery, aka Spheres of Power), not wordcasting.

> torture them body and soul with iron maiden
Put them into iron maiden and force them to listen to iron maiden?
[grumble mode off]

Well, I liked ACKS books, but this seems to be generic setting material. I'm more curious about Veins of the Earth.

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>>52281205
>>52281205

Here's my time tracking sheet, made fancy.

Every round, check off a round box. When you get to 6, check off a minute box. When you get to 60 minutes, check off an hour box.

You'll go through a fair number of sheets, but it's handy for keeping thing sensibly organized. You can also draw lines and make notes to list the duration of spells or effects, or torchlight.

I want to run LotFP but more want to run it in a high fantasy setting and with less edge. Is it possible?

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>>52285688
*Pssst*
>>52282053

>>52285747
The only justification I can give for LotFP over B/X (et al.) is the modules.
You'd have to give those up, but there shouldn't be any other issues?

>>52285028
> How do I get OSR players?
First you get players. Then you play OSR with them.

> I tried to recruit for a homebrew, but it's not working.
Yeah. Wonder of wonders. People don't like work (and that's what playing homebrew usually looks like).

Advertise it as "simple early DnD game". Provided it is, of course.


>>52285099
> Should I back kickstarter stuff or just wait for someone to upload it to here?
If you have spare cash - back it. My personal cash goes to dentist right now, for example.


>>52285168
> We were throwing a hissy fit about trying to do that last thread:
I'm considering throwing one right now.

The line is drawn at rolling three dice, people. Anything over this limit is bad wrong fun you should be ashamed of. That way Exalted&Shadowrun lie (rolling 20+ dice).

Suffer not the dice pool!


>>52285688
> not grouping minutes into 5-min groups and hours into 6-hour
Why?

>>52285183

It seriously bothers me that labyrinth lord gives clerics spells at 1st level.

Why?

>>52285936

Why haze cleric players? Why make them wait to have a core class ability?

>>52286022
>>52285936
On one hand, starting clerics are pretty close to fighters in terms of combat abilities. Same chance to hit (like everybody), same level of armor, one fewer hit point on average, one fewer point of damage on average. Then, of course, they have have the ability to turn the undead. So do they really need to be able to cast spells to strengthen them?

On the other hand, one 1st level spell isn't going to make that big of a difference.

My issue with giving clerics a spell at 1st level is not what they look like at 1st level, but how far ahead of magic-users they get in terms of spells per day at higher levels. At 300,000 XP, a cleric has spells per day of 5/4/3/3/2. At 310,000 XP, a magic-user has 3/3/3/2/1. Granted, magic-user spells are considerably more powerful, but does the cleric really need so many more spells given that they're pretty good in combat too? But then some of this just comes down to high-level clerics requiring fewer XP to gain levels than any other class (which seems fucked up to me, considering that they may be gaining 3 new spells per day at various different levels when they level up).

>>52285911
I'm copying the text from >>52285183 over here for you, so that it's harder to miss.
>I don't really know any other place to ask, so I have a question about a specific kit in AD&D2E.
>One of the members of my group is playing a class called "Amazon Huntress" this class apparently gets full warrior THAC0, rogue skills D8 hit die and levels at rogue speed.
Frankly this seems horrifically broken and sounds a little too good to be true.
>Is this a real class? Or just something the player has made up?

Sadly, 2e, especially with all the supplements and shit, is probably what folks here at /OSR/ are weakest on, in terms of old school D&D.

As someone that hasn't actually played AD&D 1e but has read the books a fair bit - the fuck's a segment?

It's brought up a lot all over the place but to my understanding isn't actually explained anywhere.

Or maybe it is explained somewhere but I can't fucking find it because the book's a mess.

>>52285758
I don't really get this. And I use a VERY similar visual system.
That wording is... idk, impossible to parse?

>>52286811
A segment's six seconds. Defined on the bottom of the left column of PHB p102.

>>52286854
Right column, sorry. Start of the surprise section. It's also defined in the section on casting time on p43 as 10 to a melee round, and in the section on time on p40 as 6 seconds.

All right. For the past five minutes I've been theorizing a duel system for the game. Because I love a good duel, but the only one I've found anywhere - in Player's Option: Combat & Tactics - is incredibly shit.

Here's what I've got so far: rounds aren't counted in minutes, or even in segments, but in -fractions of seconds-. Even swinging your weapon takes several rounds: maybe around as many as the weapon's speed factor, during which you're helpless. Then the weapon's speed factor again before you've gotten completely over the swing and can do something else again.

If you get multiple attacks, then your speed is divided by your amount of attacks. So if you've got a battle axe (speed factor 7), and you get to attack 3/2 times with it, then your final speed with the weapon is 5.

Naturally, you should be able to react to things: dodge or block during the former, then attack yourself during the latter part. Blocking, dodging, flanking, all these things take a few rounds too - but you have to time it right.

Both you and your opponent will privately decide how many "rounds" they wait before attacking.

Go too early (maybe before half the weapon speed, rounded up) and the enemy can cancel their attack and be prepared. Go too late and you end up getting hit. There should be some partially-random way to decide at which "round" you act: the higher your level is, especially as a fighter, the better you can do it.

If you can completely pinpoint the timing when the strike comes through, you can parry-riposte.

I dunno, so far I've just been rambling and spitballing. Am I on to something here, though? And if so, could you help me to form it into something coherent?

What luck have people had converting 3.PF products to OSR style stats? Anything from classes to monsters. I'm interested in seeing if there's any formula for it or if it's more of an art.

>>52287124
Are there even any 3.PF modules that don't involve railroading, setpieces, and immediate battles without the possibility of diplomacy?

>>52287148
I'm sure there are, but even if there weren't, I'm not interested in just the modules.

Hence "Anything from classes to monsters".

>>52287177
I don't know about the classes myself. A big part of OSR to me is that there are only four at most: fighter, cleric, mage, maybe thief. The rest would just be a bunch of optional stuff added to these, or multiclasses.

If the new class fits to one of those, then it's just one of those. If it doesn't, it's not very old-school.

Would it fuck up LotFP if you kept the racial classes in but renamed them to something like 'Spelunker' for Dwarf and 'Spellblade' for Elf and let people just pick races with maybe a bonus to attributes?

>>52287100
I play B/X. I do normal combat, but with +dex to initiative (this is called paired combat I think). *Actions are declared before inititative is rolled. This is important.

Called shots (disarming, tripping, shoving...) are a normal roll, on a success defender chooses to take damage, or whatever the called shot is.

And that's it. The rules btb cover the rest. You can dodge hits by withdrawing. You can use called shots to parry-riposte Dark Souls style, by forcing a flee move (I allow one extra, instant attack when enemy retreats without withdrawing).

K.I.S.S.

>>52287238
You don't even have a group, right?

>>52287270
>You don't even have a group, right?

Why would you assume this? My group wants some new options but we're currently playing in a camping setting where there are no elves and dwarves, and we already settled on races having different stats instead of being classes.

>>52287295
Because that sort of this it's kind of obvious if you know your players. You can also ask them.

And no, a small bonus to ability scores won't break D&D, but kind of defeats the whole point of 3d6 in order. In classic D&D scores aren't human-centric, they are an absolute measure; race differences come from quasi-magical abilities, infravision and languages and the like. Which makes them a lot more alien and interesting, and less 'humans with pointy ears'.

My 2cp. Go with what your group says.

Any OSR that use universal d6 hit dice?

>>52287447
LBB OD&D and anything based on it.

>>52285879
I'm not sure if your complaint about rolling 3+ dice is genuine or sarcastic, but if it's genuine, could you explain why? I'm curious why you wouldn't want the feeling of slinging a fistfull of dice.

>>52287238
I'm not sure about LotFP in particular, but it would be pretty easy to convert the racial classes in B/X into just the sort of thing you're talking about by just dropping the few things that are inextricably racially-based (you wouldn't even have to adjust the XP costs, as they tend to be a bit on the low side in the RAW). Honestly though, Dwarves and Halflings are mostly just Fighters, so I'm not sure how worth it it would be to include them once they're stripped of their racial identities. Elves, on the other hand, have obvious worth as multiclass fighter/magic-users.

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>>52287447
For what it's worth, you can pretty easily convert variable hit dice to all-d6 hit dice.

>>52287100
There's this wonderful game called Song of Swords you might be interested in. They have a general up right now.

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The more I think about it, the more La Mulana looks like it would make a fairly decent megadungeon. Lots of labyrinthine paths connected into discrete parts, multiple entrances and exits for each section of the ruins, tons of lore that draws from ancient cultures, and devious traps and puzzles that would require a very meticulous mapper and note taker.
Just gotta figure out how to translate the verticality to something more crawl-oriented.

>>52287779
Might want to add piles more treasure, and do something about all the boss monsters.

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>>52287804
Probably dot the ruins with various treasure troves around where you find the health upgrades. As for the bosses, I rather like the idea of sealing them away through a different means than killing them. Possibly by performing ancient rituals discovered in town and in the ruins?

Whoa, one of the few general setting AD&D books to excite me in awhile -- Monster Mythology. One way to make humanoid type foes more distinct that I've fallen in love with was using more spellcaster types, esp after reading Volo's stuff on orcs, and I found this book to be really clever in how it keeps in mind the original monster and keeps the hit dice in proportion.

Its also neat how it'd let me use all sorts of humanoid types as mid level threats rather than "sub-war dog" threats, and let me use semi analogous stat blocks in campaigns, whether its AD&D, 3e, or 5e.

>>52287891
Monster Mythology expands on one of my favorite things about 2nd edition AD&D - specialist priests. Therefore, it's automatically great.

>>52287885
A big thing with OSR is that you can often try talking to monsters, so perhaps there could be some way to convince even some of the bosses to back away, if you have the right relics or have completed the proper rituals.

Others would only awaken to attack you if you did something to displease them.

>>52287939
Definitely, I was considering the possibility of actually recruiting intelligent monsters in the ruins to serve as translators, emissaries, and bodyguards as well. I imagine the boss fights could be similar in that regard, using rituals, relics, and even plain old trickery to make them perceive your party as too dangerous to fight or not a threat.
Or just go full murderhobo and spill their ancient blood.

>>52288016
You'd need to do something with factions, too. As I recall it La-Mulana didn't have much of that.

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>>52286824
Spinning down (or up) a die is iterating through which face is pointing up.
I mostly see it in the context of M:tG life tracking, but it's not an exclusive concept.
(Prereleases give special d20s where each face is adjacent to the next number down, etc.)

Two other addendum:
* you don't need an Othello stone, you can mark alternating wedges instead
* labeling at least one wedge by actual time (top of the hour) is a good idea

>>52286811
1/10th of a round. But most references to segments actually mean "initiative penalty" IIRC.

>>52289006
Casting time is also measured in segments.

>>52287885
>around where you find the health upgrades.
Maybe leave "level up" items in key (or hard to reach) places?

Spiffy treasures individually worth a full level,
journals of previous explorers,
possession by talented hospitable ghosts (seeking revenge?),
straight up "potions of go up a level," and so on.

>>52289035
Unless you have less than a full round of segments to work with, that's an initiative penalty.

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Oh crap, you guys switched thread ages ago. No wonder nobody has been posting for the last five hours.

Anyway, I posted >>52286727 in the other thread. Would love to hear if anyone has any insight regarding my conundrum.

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When settling more arbitrary issues that face failure, do you opt for d20+Mod DC checks or Roll equal/under Ability scores? Which is better?

>>52289688
Neither. I pick a chance (usually -in-6 or -in-36) then dice d6s.

>>52289687
Just pull reasonable numbers out of your hat:
>Let's say a player declares that his PC picks up a sword from a fallen enemy, does that take a round?
Unless the fallen enemy is on the other side of the room, that takes less than a segment.
I wouldn't even give an initiative penalty for that (an AC penalty though...)
>What if he's looting the corpse?
That's enough of a round that I'd say "you do nothing else."
Even if you're still fighting, you're barely keeping your AC up (with a steep penalty).
>What if he's looting the corpse slowly and quietly so he doesn't alert other monsters?
1d6-1 rounds (min. 1), if they have less to search through (wearing less, etc.) just pick a number.
If you're out of combat, I'd say half a turn? (unless they've just got loincloths, etc.)

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>>52289876
I see, and I get your way of coming up with how long stuff takes. I still don't really get whether people actually do that for everything or not. Picking up a sword is one thing at one time, but there are probably one or two dozen things that each player wants to do in a room. Like, they want to inspect something, pick up something, sit on something, tinker with something, say something, eat something, doublecheck something etc. Are DMs really supposed to take each of those things, translate them into rounds and mark them on the time tracker? I kind of feel like that would ruin the flow of the game a lot.

>>52290002
>Are DMs really supposed to take each of those things, translate them into rounds and mark them on the time tracker?
They are not supposed to do that. You do as much as you'd like, and the referee occasionally decides "this feels like it's been 10 minutes."
>I kind of feel like that would ruin the flow of the game a lot.
OoC disputes notwithstanding, always always always act in a way that preserves the flow of the game.

>>52289687
>>52290002
I'd say if they're doing something that requires them to stand still during exploration, it either immediately is something that takes them a full turn(which should be obvious) or will take a full turn if they spend long enough doing it.
EG, searching through the gear of fallen enemies.
If they say they're going to search until they find something useful, have them roll the appropriate skill or w/e(Whatever works best); on a success, they find something immediately and can keep moving along or keep searching which will take a whole turn. On a failure, they spend a whole turn searching before they find anything. (This is assuming that there is anything useful to be found that isn't immediately obvious, like a glowing sword as opposed to a magic-user's spellbook stashed in his bag which is one of 4 or 5 that need to be checked.)

On the other hand, if they're just doing a quick once-over while the group moves through the room, you could easily say it happens while whoever makes the map is taking their measurements or w/e.

Just ask how thorough they want to be/how much time they want to spend doing it.

>>52290055
If that's the case then I don't have any confusion over how time is tracked. I guess I just assumed that other people play more rigorously than me, and I felt like there was something I was missing.

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Big maps with lots of smaller dungeons scattered about, or small map with fewer, bigger dungeons?

>>52290149
Both work, the important thing is that it's dense with stuff to do.

>>52290097
If you're making abstract judgement calls, more abstract judgements won't raise accuracy.
Why waste the bookkeeping?

>>52290149
I lean towards smaller dungeons that interconnect.

>>52284996
Now that Sakkara has been liberated, I'm feeling good about future Autarch products. However, this feels like a complete 180 on the implied ACKS setting, which is actually pretty cool.

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>>52285688
>>52285879
Plugging this time tracker again. It's far easier to reference than a bunch of square boxes.

https://savevsdragon.blogspot.com/2016/02/free-pdf-download-exploration-time.html

>>52290149
I like bigger maps, because they make it look like the world itself is larger and has more old ruins to poke in.

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How do I indulge in my love for dungeon traps without turning the game into an unfair TPK meat grinder, or even worse, a boring slog from paranoid players obsessively checking every 5 foot square?

>>52286022
Magic-users get a spell and that's pretty much all they get.

Clerics get a d6 for hit points, armor, shields, a few weapons, and UNLIMITED turn undead.

Even if undead never appear, it's pretty shitty to take the one thing that makes magic-users special at first level and give it to another class. Especially when "I can only cast one spell?" is a common complaint from new players.

>>52290609
>or even worse, a boring slog from paranoid players obsessively checking every 5 foot square?

Because if they try to do that, that's a wandering monster check every two turns.

Make traps reactionary (e.g. you open the door, the trap goes off) or give hints as to their locations/triggers (e.g. a hole in the opposite wall).

>>52290609
Give your traps some distinctive sign.
It doesn't need to be obvious, but it does need to feel out of place.
The first time the party trips them, clatter some dice and describe a hireling dying.

>>52290611
I restrict clerics to Med. Armour, slightly nerd their attack progression, and restrict Turn Undead to once per encounter. I dunno how well it balances it out in the long run but it addresses my own personal issues with the class.

>>52290715
I'm fine with the armor since it restricts movement, although it should be a little pricier in most games. Weapon restrictions are fine (and classic D&D logic). Turn undead could use a fix like once per encounter/turn (maybe clerics regain it in their "rest" turn?) but honestly it's never come up much.

Barrowmaze did a cool thing with turn undead becoming more difficult each time it's used. That definitely makes the decision to use it more interesting.

Building a megadungeon, and I can't think of a good starting area. I have zero problems coming up with weird gonzo shit for later levels, but I really don't want to start the players off in gray hallways and force them to slog through goblins before they get to the good stuff. What do I do?

>>52290888
Make it a goblin city. They start out suspicious and borderline hostile, anything can spark out a full-on war, or if you manage to keep them friendly you could help them out with their problem in the deeper levels.

My players (and me) are pretty new to OSR, but so far they really like the dungeon crawling. The thing is they also like boss monsters. How can I make a dungeon boss without it feeling too video gamey?

>>52290942
Give him a lot of henchmen and allies. Otherwise the party will just gang up on him, and then he'll need to be a HP sponge to last more than a round.

>>52290942
Nothing wrong with boss monsters in cool areas. That's pretty much what dragons are.

How would you adapt OSR to /v/ in general? Which edition, which house rules better convey an OSR feel in a digital media without a human DM?

Hard Mode: no roguelike, since it will be about a party.
Thief Mode: How would you do thief's skills and most of free form?

>>52291196
Darkest Dungeon is pretty good, though it fails Thief Mode.

>>52291196
>no roguelike, since it will be about a party.
You *can't* make it about a party unless you go arcade-esque.

Sell me on Blood & Treasure!

>>52285747
yeah just run it

with monsters and shit

So, how many of y'all use porcs in your settings?

>>52291578
What are porcs?

>>52291196
Wizardry is the closest you'll get to /v/ osr I think. Thief skills are only relevant when checking for traps on a treasure chest though.

>>52291599
Pig like orcs

>>52291673
Oh. Nah.

All the japanese fantasy killed them for me long before I got around to see them in actual OSR games at all.

>>52291673
Orc like pig too.

>>52291578
I use both. One kind is a race of boarmen and the other is a cousin of the goblins. They don't get along together very much.

>>52291578
I don't even have orcs. Some extra feral elves goblins are just big.

How does on use beast men in a setting without making lycanthropes superfluous?

>>52291795
Isn't lycanthropy a magical illness? How would that make beast men superfluous?

>>52291795
Even if there are other animal people around, lycanthropy still drives you berserk and makes you immune to nonsilver weapons. It's got its place.

>>52290822
I like the armor restriction because it gives players a reason to actually use Medium armor and gives the Cleric something else to differentiate it from the Fighter.

>>52291578
Only in ACKS since the vanilla fluff has Orcs and other monstrous races as the literal mutant results of magical gene splicing.

I luv me some porcs.

>>52291578
None in my current game. Already have weird alien cannibals in various states of post-apocalyptic tribalism.

But porcs seem like a thing I really want in a 1700s rise of modernism, industrialization sort of game that I want to do next. Bunch of pig-people Landsknechts with an interest in flamboyant clothing, really big swords and getting wasted.

>>52291695
anon like this joke

like orc farmers
>grow food in dirt?
>save time, eat dirt

I really want to give a chance to LotFP because I want a rules-lite D&D and think the title sounds rad (especialy compared to the other retroclones) but I think the "race-as-class" mechanism is beyond retarded.

Wat do?

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>>52291578

B E S T O R C
E
S
T
O
R
C

>Clerics prepare spells

Stupidest things about OSR. Clerics should not prepare spells, they should pray to their Gods during the day whenever they need them. It makes sense that a Vancian Wizard has to prepare with his magic, but the more straightforward nature of a cleric means they really shouldn't.

>>52287891
>>52287924
Monster Mythology is an underrated gem.

>>52291578
I use Porcs, Goblinzees, and Ratbolds/Uglybolds.

>>52291795
I've asked myself this (even planned on making a blogpost about it).
First, think about the practical effects.
>How furry are these beastfolk?
>Can beastfolk disguise themselves the way a wereX can?
To use TES as an example, an Argonian or a Khajit have a damn hard time concealing their race without looking suspicious; gloves, long-sleeves, a robe to hide the tail, a fully-enclosed helmet (which even then might not help depending on the snout size). A werewolf just needs to be in human form. He could be a beggar, a wench, a priest, a baron, a merchant, a knight, etc. Worse yet, a werewolf can turn you into another werewolf, something a beastman probably can't do unless he's a wizard.

Next, come mythical/cultural considerations. What is (commonly believed) origin of werewolves? Debased mage (legends disagree on what sex) cavorting with the cruelest wolves of the forest? Noble wolf god(ess?) falling for a mortal huntress (or hunter)? Divine punishment visited on a bloodline for the cruel and predatory natures?

Finally, I recommend reading Three Hearts and Three Lions which has a good couple of chapters describing the prototype for the AD&D werewolf. Van Richten's Guide to Lycanthropes may also inspire you.

>>52292567
Easiest option is to just not use those classes. It doesn't hurt the game any.

If you still want the rules its not hard to reskin elves as spell swords (swords and magic), dwarves as siege mercenaries (tough and know buildings). Or barbarians by swapping out their architecture skill for 'bushcraft' or something similar. Ditch halflings because they're boring

>>52292700
Is there any edition of D&D where Clerics DON'T prepare spells?

Doc, I need help

>recently realized i have a reading comprehesion problem, prep is grating af
>play rarely, months can go by without a game
>spend time between games reading rpg shit and trying to make good donjons
>day before game i lose my shit incontrolably
>shittiest proc-gen dungeon or under-prepped module
>constantly nervous, crap descriptions
>poor planing, combat feels like I hit/you miss
>time pressure
>players stopping coming pressure
>wade thru walls of text pressure
>crappy game happens, as you can imagine
>repeat (next month or maybe next summer)

How do I get out of this circle? I know, this is a general rpg question

>>52292567
>I think the "race-as-class" mechanism is beyond retarded.
Think of is as race-as-race instead:
• Elves are elves.
• Dwarves are dwarves.
• Halfings are hobbits.
• Fighting-Men are men.
• Magic-Users are abhuman spooks.
• Clerics are surnamed Van Helsing or Belmont.

>>52292700
Said it before I'll say it again:
Clerics should request spells, their God (played by the referee) should select them.

>>52293588
I've never had issues with reading comprehension, and the very idea is alien. I can't imagine what it would be like, so no idea what to do there.
As to the stress, a heart dose of apathy should tide you through it. Or meditation (~20 min. daily), if you want to actually fix the problem.

Just saw this: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-japrD4Kpdv0/WLdlGG974UI/AAAAAAAAHj4/bzl-XvnXyI4zVMy1W37FufoIKuOkgNqowCLcB/s1600/Hades.PNG

Has been Death ever statted for D&D use?

>>52295004
You can summon Death from the Deck of Many Things.

I once had a PC kill Death. He thought himself invincible afterwards.

>>52295004
Pretty sure the Outer Planes have multiple species of psychopomp.

>>52295004
Death (intermediate god)
It is Death’s duty to end the life of all intelligent beings on Nehwon. He has a set quota to kill every hour and he never fails in his assigned task. Sometimes he is misdirected and the ones he plans on killing aren’t killed at all, but even Death must bow to the fates and other more powerful gods of Nehwon. Death is not affected by time and is able to do a years worth of work in a second. He considers himself an artist and works very hard at making sure the deaths he causes are logical and necessary to his own view of life and the end of life.
Role-playing Notes: Death values a good hero because of their ability to cause death and destruction. Characters like Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser are especially favored by Death. When beings like these heroes are close to death, often the god will cause unusual little slips that will save their lives. Then too, sometimes his quota will call for the ending of two famous heroes and he will be forced (however reluctantly) to try killing his protégés.
Statistics: AL n; WAL none; AoC death; SY Death’s Head.
Death’s Avatar (rogue 10)
This being is Nehwon’s personal Grim Reaper. As such, he lives in a pocket dimension that Death controls, called Shadowland. He can appear anywhere in Nehwon that he likes.
Str 24 Dex 24 Con 24
Int 24 Wis 24 Cha 21
MV 18 SZ 7’ MR 100%
AC -5 HD N/A HP 350
#AT 2 THAC0 2 Dmg Special
Special Att/Def: The avatar of Death carries a sword called Slayer that kills anything it touches (no saving throw allowed). He appears as a man with a cadaverous skin color and his eyes have the power to see all the actions of a person’s past life. He is able to unerringly teleport to any portion of Nehwon. He can be ordered to kill intermediate or lesser gods (although such individuals are entitled to a saving throw when struck with Slayer), but greater gods are beyond his skill.

Anybody read or played the hexcrawls from The Land of Nod setting? I found it a while back and thought the cover art for the magazine issues was fucking sweet (cause I'm one of those losers who listens to albums if I think their cover art is sick), they seemed kinda cool. Was wondering if anybody had an opinion on them.

>>52287733
What's with this? It doesn't look ok at all, weird jumps everywhere.

Why not simply use 'die steps' as a modifier?
d4 > d6-1
d6 >d6
d8 >d6+1
d10 > d6+2
The averages are the same. At play, MUs have 1-5 hit dice (instead of 1-4) and Fighters get 2-7, which is not that bad.

I'm trying to get into White Box OSR here but- what makes the Fighter good?

No really, I'm not really seeing in the rules what makes the Fighter worth playing, or interesting at all.

Straight B/X vs ACKS. Which one should I do? I'll be introducing Pathfinder and 5e Babbies to oldschool style play, and the only deciding factor right now is that I own multiple copies of Basic and Expert.

>>52296300
Might as well start with what came first, then. You can move them on to ACKS later.

Are there any good retroclones based on AD&D? Most of them seem to go all the way to the first games and fix up B/X or the original.

>>52296206
More meat points than anybody else, and at higher levels they basically stop missing.
>what makes the Fighter worth playing,
It has the best survivability.

>>52296300
If you prefer straight B/X, go straight B/X.
If you prefer ACKS, I'd still recommend B/X. It makes the
>I'll be introducing Pathfinder and 5e Babbies to oldschool style
promise feel more genuine to them.

>I own multiple copies of Basic and Expert.
Actively discourage referencing the books during play.

>>52293588
>donjons
Where? If you live near me I could help you directly.

Instead of worrying with having everything planned I just build a world over time. No need to have frivolous description, just knowing what's what is perfectly fine. You'd be surprised with how little players can go with.
I use background music too, so that might help a bit. Also everyone is there to have a good time, including you, so don't push yourself too hard.

>>52296206
>No really, I'm not really seeing in the rules what makes the Fighter worth playing, or interesting at all.

Combat is highly dynamic as the fighter does not have to rely on specific combat mechanics or options to do things. They may not have a specific ability that says "Once per day you can jump off your horse and piledrive a dude" but nothing is stopping your DM from making a ruling about it.

>>52296356
You need to strip a lot of material out to make it playable.
No consensus on what the strip out though.

The *best* AD&D clone is OSRIC, which is strictly worse than AD&D.
It was only written as a tool for publishers to infringe copyrights.
The authors were baffled that some people actually wanted it in print.

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So. How's yer campaign going?

>>52296486
>No one wants to play OSR
>We play two or three sessions of 5e
>People want to restart
This has been going for two years now

>>52296486
One party is trying to convince a skeleton butler to let them investigate the building. The butler insists on his master being indisposed, even though the master is actually dead.

The other one all got stuck in the web of a giant spider. The mage cast Burning Hands and burned fucking everything.

>>52296486
It's been going fine, right now they're in town restocking before delving again in the catacombs.

>>52296486
Played one session of B/X with my long-time group of schoolfriends. It was great, got lots of good feedback, we all had a good time.
Then one of them suddenly moved away to go to University in a different state and it's kinda in limbo now.

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>>52296486
Pretty good. Running my 'Ruinations' hexcrawl set in the post-apocalyptic Pacific Northwest.

3 players of 5 died last session; 2 while "defending" a group of Sullied (ie: mutant) traveling actors from an old-world Sentry Bot attack at night. They were too busy looting their possessions and got taken by surprise. Another (Wastelander) went off into the Fungal Jungle and got mauled to death by a feral female fungoid.

Everyone just wants to be a Sullied now which is kinda lame, but whatever.

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>>52296486
Well I'm about to get to play Birthright for the first time in aeons and got a fantastic starting amount of domain points...

>>52296671
what other race/classes are there besides Sullied? I'm guessing its similar to Gamma World and its mostly just humiez and muties?

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>>52296735
Wastelander (Fighter)
Adept (Specialist)
Sullied (Mutant)

Anyone can possibly gain a mutation from radiation or other shit that happens.

You can DL a copy here if yer interested: http://ruinations-rpg.tumblr.com/

>>52296486
Good. Just wrapped up a modified Forgive Us. The remains of the party are split on getting the fuck out of town while this blows over or staying to take over the power vacuum from the now dead gang of thieves.

>>52296671
Are you still working on the hexcrawl pdf? It had some cool stuff in it.

>>52297018
I am. I'm using a lot of actual play sessions to help the rest of it come along, so it's a slow process. My players have given me tons of cool ideas just from having to develop things on the spot.

>>52296486
The normal campaign has been put on hold because of life shit, so I started playing Maze of the Blue Medusa with some newbies. I'm kind of starting to prefer playing with them instead.

>>52285879
> not grouping minutes into 5-min groups and hours into 6-hour
>Why?

Most of the stuff I track doesn't come in nice intervals like that.

>>52296486
Still trying to get someone to join the Night Wolf Excursionist Guild.

So far I've just had Jeeves send them on quests anyway.

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>>52290549
This is quite nice, but the circles are... less ideal for the kind of things I want to do. And the abbreviations annoy me.

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>>52297046
>I am. I'm using a lot of actual play sessions to help the rest of it come along, so it's a slow process. My players have given me tons of cool ideas just from having to develop things on the spot.

This makes me happy.

As an AD&D 2e fan that has never gotten to play the earlier games, only skimmed the books, sell 1e, B/X, and the original D&D for me.

>>52296805
Hm... seems like mutant is the way to go -- regardless of power level, you get something interesting to start with, while the humanocentric nature of the post apocalyptic wasteland is more of a literary necessity because its easier for the masses to relate to an everyman rather than Joe Blarghle the Tentacle Beast.

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>>52297239
Somewhat true. The negative mutations and (usually) lower HP sometimes cause more harm than good for them.

The Adept has saved their asses multiple times with her higher lockpicking, speechcraft and technology skill rolls. Hell, she's even got a speed mutation now. And the Wastelanders we had were a fucking 2-man-wrecking crew until they met their individual ends.

>>52297179
One of the bigger draws is that it's nothing like AD&D 2e, so you've already got that going for you. It'll be a fresh, shiny experience.

>>52291346
>You *can't* make it about a party unless you go arcade-esque.
Icewind Dale.

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>>52297179
>1e,
>>52280811
>B/X,
You need to make up spot rulings for lots of things, but very tight mechanics.
Everything that has a rule matters and comes up often. Every rules effects several others.
>and the original D&D for me
OD&D is AD&D with even worse editing.
If you strip out the supplements, LBB is... weird?
Strength/Intelligence/Wisdom only provide bonus xp (and act as role guides).
You check armor types against weapon types on a table to get AC.
Wisdom doesn't pretend to be anything other than "Intelligence, but for Cleric bonus xp"
Half of the random encounter chart for towns is undead.

>>52297356
>One of the bigger draws is that it's nothing like AD&D 2e
Note that this does not apply to 1e or OD&D with all the supplements, which are very much like 2e.

>>52296486
What campaign.

>>52297179
>1e
No Proficiencies (unless you're playing OA), more random generators, more DIY setting attitude instead of 2es BUY OUR SETTING BOOKS attitude, much worse psionics, very hard to find anything.

>B/X
To paraphrase Don Turnbull (IIRC): "You can change things in (B/X) D&D on the fly but any change to AD&D require careful forethought." There's a reason the OSR is basically a big B/X circlejerk, which is that it's a damn good game (although it would be nice if grogs lightened their obsession).

>original D&D
The most playtested and least well-explained RPG ever printed. It is arguably impossible to play RAW/BTB because so much was left unwritten.

>>52296697
What's your house rules? Birthright is nigh unplayable without them

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What does my homebrew here need to be complete?

Spells? Equipment? Maybe a bestiary?

>>52297460
>much worse psionics

That's... quite the accomplishment.

What's the difference between B/X and BECMI? By what I see, the latter just goes to higher levels.

>>52297460
>The most playtested
Is that literally true? Do you have a source? I'm genuinely interested, I always kind of assumed that OD&D wasn't very playtested.

Are there campaigns that have been running consistently for 20+ years in the same setting?

Are there any blogs/reports/videos about such things?

>>52297622

Games were run for years as it was being designed, at multiple tables, with several GMs, and a ton of players. Most RPGs have playtest groups of twenty or so, which was about what you got at one session in those days.

>>52297638
I have no idea how that could be possible even in theory.

>>52296434
The only AD&D based game I enjoy is AS&SH, which ditches almost everything that makes it AD&D. Which is a good thing.

>>52297622
>>52297650
It's hugely playtested, but it pisses all that away by being so badly explained that the only way to play it the way it was playtested is to have somebody who was actually there teach you how to play it.

Which I believe was the way it was intended to work to begin with. You were supposed to buy the box as a reference, and learn how to play from somebody who already knew.

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>>52297557
OD&D psionics is three unrelated subsystems across 5 sections of a book.
Psionicists eat xp penalties (through stat loss in Prime Requisites), lose spell slots, and lose followers.
It is however, fairly well balanced.
All the powers are interesting too, ranging from shadow puppetry to https://youtu.be/evYxx8qjZFs

The real issue is psionic combat. If you have a psionicist with you, so do 1-in-6 wandering monsters.
Psionicists stare eachother to death, by making 10 attacks each round before initiative.

>>52297557
1e psionics is only in two sections, but they're in separate books.
It somehow manages to have worse organization. Might be the most poorly organized thing Gygax ever published.
All the monsters got ported with too few PSPs and the wrong attack/defense modes.
It introduced loads of balance issues in an effort to clean things up, too.

>>52297582
BECMI is written "for new players" and is intended to be read as you learn.
This puts a lot of rules are in weird spots of the book, making it a pain to reference.
Also, M and I are full of weird shit and Thief abilities advance at ⅓ the speed they do in B/X.

>>52297638

I don't know about D&D, but I've heard tell of crazy German wargame campaigns that have been running for like forty years.

>>52297736
But why haven't a couple old boys come together yet to write an appendix or something for the game, further explaining how it works?

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The 100 Orthodox Spells are done.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-100-orthodox-spells.html

And in a convenient PDF form.

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>>52297556
Yeah, unless you want to steal another system, you'll need some spells.

I'd do a bestiary of 10 monsters, with HD from 1 to 10, to give examples of creatures and their abilities.

Equipment doesn't seem to be too important. I'd list small, medium, heavy weapons, light sources, shields, and some stuff for the PCs to spend their loot on.

Really though, it's not a complete game yet. It's a hack for a complete game. Find a game you can nick systems from and then bolt your stuff on.

>>52285601
>Maybe we were playing Judge Dee campaigns, investigating cases of three-headed flying monks?
It wasn't with OSR but I have done this and it is AWESOME. Judge Dee (novels) is just fun, making it into a puzzle and intrigue with combat game was the triumph of my old DM.

Why is nature considered Neutral? Wouldn't it make more sense if it was Chaotic?

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>>52286727

>The problem I've always had with this stuff in OS D&D is that I have no idea how long walking from room to room is supposed to take, or how long simple actions take. Let's say a player declares that his PC picks up a sword from a fallen enemy, does that take a round? What if he's looting the corpse? What if he's looting the corpse slowly and quietly so he doesn't alert other monsters?

Want an easy way to get used to tracking time like this?

Pick a TV show or movie you like. Grab some time tracking sheets. Use those to figure out how many rounds were actually fought, etc.

It helps.

>>52297942

>Really though, it's not a complete game yet. It's a hack for a complete game. Find a game you can nick systems from and then bolt your stuff on.
I see. I'm not really sure what 'hack for a complete game' really means, I appreciate the advice. I'll start working on it.

>>52297968
Nature is based on evolution and natural order, and neither is Chaos.

>>52297968
I agree with you if the focus of your setting is law vs chaos. If you are including good vs evil then I disagree

>>52297968

Chaos are demons, undead, cultists. Creatures that actively oppose law and order, actively oppose civilization.

Nature doesn't necessarily care about humanity or civilization. It just is. That's why its neutral.

>>52297968
Generally, only intelligent creatures can be anything other than Neutral.

And if you go back to Appendix N and read Three Hearts and Three Lions, Chaos is the alignment of wanting to plunge the world into eternal twilight and establish a might-makes-right magocracy.

An Orc wants to fuck all your shit up forever, a Bear just wants to eat and sleep.

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>>52297991
Grab a game you like that has

An inventory system
A table of how much stuff is worth
Spells
A bestiary

That you like, and that fit your game's needs. Use your rules for most things and their rules for specific things.

For example, you could just straight out grab B/X's spell system and bolt it onto yours with a few changes. Or the Goblin Punch spell system. Or something else entirely. Whatever it is, it's got the benefit of having a spell list already. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Just steal wheels off other people's cars and bolt them to your dune buggy.

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How do you get your players to describe themselves as wearing anything but heavy plate armor/no armor at all?

I ask because there are so many cool kinds of armor, but since plate is the 'best' that means everyone uses it, or you don't use it. Seems like there is very little inbetween.

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>>52298032

what if the reason why you were making your homebrew in the first place is because you hate every other OSR game ever made and feel a huge need to be a special snowflake and make your own?

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>>52298040
Tell them to pick something off this list:

http://middenmurk.blogspot.ca/2015/09/body-armour.html

If they care. If they don't, and it's not important, there's no need to describe it in detail. Not everyone cares about the 300 types of polearms.

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>>52298057
So this mtg-related post is waaaaaaay too harsh, but it's got a point.

There are only so many ways to do a spell list. Either put up and invent a new, better one or steal someone else's. And don't be mad if your list is worse.

Same thing with inventory lists. Sure, you /could/ write down every item you think is useful. Or you could take 6 games, copy their items, delete duplicates, and use those.

>>52297491
Last time we played it was a kitchen sink clusterfuck with pretty much everything crammed in that we could fit, though we did have a nice, complete, level 1-20 campaign.

Its not necessarily *in* Cerilia (sp). The houserules so far seem to be that you get a wild talent to start (DM likes psionics), and not sure what we're going to do for mass combat, in the past we tended to attack enemies as an adventuring party with backup as needed, though who knows what the DM will do if I start aggressively raising armies and attacking things. Either way, he's probably not going to push mass combat unless a player instigates it.

What sort of unplayability issues are you thinking of? Just turns taking fucking forever?

>>52297843
Gygax already did that, it's called AD&D.

>>52297746

I find 1e psionics really interesting (most demons seem underpowered as hell without them), but what's an example of a monster being ported poorly?

You can just avoid using psi to not trigger the random encounters.

The 10 attacks a round thing is actually treating each segment as an exchange, so a few will happen before other people's initiative.

>>52298017
>>52297968
>>52298029
Nice analysis.

I think the L/N/C trinity (is that a word?) fits well even in stuff that isn't necessarily D&D like, because that applies to a lot of settings. The space between here and there, the antagonists and the home base, and those within it. Kind of arbitrary, but.

>>52287705
maybe because it makes numbers to big and makes it more difficult to tweak?

>>52298178
Still forgot to explain how thief skills work, though.

I have recently been thinking that it is not that other games suck but that in non osr games we focus so much in characters that we forget the adventure

>>52298235
Really? I was gonna guess the other way around, that modern games tend to be more like Dragonlance.

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>>52295040
>I once had a PC kill Death. He thought himself invincible afterwards.

You can't just leave us hanging like that, anon. What's the full story?

>>52298178
But that game just raised further questions!

>>52296697
>>52297491
Can someone give me a summary of problems with Birthright as a system? Also are there any prices for recruiting OROGS anywhere?

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>>52293588
>How do I get out of this circle?

Therapy. Seriously.

Your car makes a funny noise. You take it to a mechanic. Your cat is sick. You take it to a vet. Your brain's not working quite right. Go do a few rounds of CBT to level out your preparatory anxiety and you'll be just fine.

And if you have a reading comprehension problem, can you use diagrams or charts to help you with plans and combat?

>>52298364
Deck of Many Things and a few really lucky rolls.

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>>52298374
It's questions all the way down, anon.

Or possibly all the way up.

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>>52298409
No no, that's how he defeated Death.

What happened afterwards, man? How did "being invincible" work out?

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>>52298417
Wait, so the game is like... a dungeon?

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>>52298403
>Go do a few rounds of CBT to level out your preparatory anxiety

You need to be very careful using acronyms, Anon.

>>52298444
Oh. Well, he got stuck into a post-apocalyptic desert world all alone for a while, fought sandworms and mutant apemen with rayguns, and made them fear him.

He came pretty close to dying, but yeah, he never actually died.

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>>52298481
Well, I had to google it but...

That'd work too, I suppose. It would certainly help you focus.

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>>52298502
So maybe he was right, and he's still out there, immortal and feared.

Is there a list of all the 2e kits? Which one do you think are the coolest?

>>52298575
Bard kits, easy. They're like completely separate classes each, and most of them are ridiculously flavorful and fun. They're the reason bard is at its best in 2e, IMO.

I never thought I would ask, but do you guys have any alternatives to the classic armor system? I don't really want to remove AC, but I'd rather have something other than armor determine it (which probably means that it would need to change names but whatever). I starting to get tired of the whole idea of simply buying and equiping stuff in order to get hit less.

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Someone mentioned in the last thread that they wanted a copy of Slügs! for LotFP.
I'm selling mine for $12 (what I paid for it) + whatever shipping is to wherever you are.

We can do it over paypal or if you feel safer ebay if you're interested.

I like the simplicity of "roll under ability score", but it makes you rely too much on stats that I don't think rolling for them is a good idea, what should I do?

>>52298641

You could have a class defense value, and a defense value based on HD for monsters. Armor could add a smaller amount to this, or it could be damage reduction, or you could have the armor act as temporary HP - which would necessitate it being replaced occasionally.

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>>52296486
Started a LotFP game last week, with The God That Crawls
Party was
>Dwarf with a 'dwarven greataxe'
>Fighter with an axe and shield
>Fighter with a bardiche
>Specialist with a bow and skills based around stealthy shit
>Cleric with no weapon
>MU with no weapon
Dwarf and MU have missed both sessions; Dwarf was there for the first 5 minutes of the first one, then just disappeared, MU has been busy so I'm being patient with her

>Plot hook was a job board in Canterbury with a request from some guy to go to Dover's church and retrieve his grandfather's bible from the catacombs
>Players get to the church at night, I forgot the bit in the book about there being burly villages there to guard the place, so instead the priest lets them sleep inside on the floor, so they can be well rested to go into the catacombs the next morning
>Players make a few jokes about him being a pedo because of the acolytes
>Next morning, no one questions the hole beyond 'what's this green stuff at the bottom?', priest passes it off as rotted foodstuffs
>Players walk away from the hole, hear gong, find a 'map' written on the wall in dry blood, start following it
>Found a few of the treasure caches so far, and across a total of 12 turns, have only just now seen the God for the first time, near the collapsing tunnel entrance
>Session today ended with them hurrying down some stairs from the God, and then the specialist's player having to leave
>Pic related is their map so far

It's going well, I'd say

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>>52298752
I'm not sure I understand your question.

If Stats aren't going to be important and relied on... what else do you have? Fate Aspects?

Stats already determine stuff like HP and magic and all that jazz.

And rolling for Stats and then being fucked over completely is part of the old-school charm.

>>52298792
>If Stats aren't going to be important and relied on... what else do you have?
Nothing, and stats mods give small bonuses, so they are not a problem

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>>52298195
>but what's an example of a monster being ported poorly?
Literally every single one.

Most of the Eldritch Sorcery write-ups list psychic potential rather than total psionic strength.
Total psionic strength (PSPs) is double psionic attack strength... which is psychic potential +2/ability +5/mode
The 1e Monster Manual just takes psychic potential to be PSPs, so monsters have less than have their intended PSPs.

Also, which modes correspond to which letter changed between the editions. But which letters each monster got didn't.
The most egregious victim is the Mindflayer incidentally, the only monster with the correct number of PSPs.
In Eldritch Sorcery, Mindflayers got the attack mode that AoE's in a cone and stuns non-psionics. In 1e gives them Mind Thrust instead.

>You can just avoid using psi to not trigger the random encounters.
In 1e, sure. Using powers gives a 1-in-4 chance of using the Psionic Encounter table if you roll a wandering monster within the next turn.
In OD&D, no. Having a psionic gives a a 1-in-6 of one of the wandering monsters being a psionic, with a further 1-in-6 chance (1-in-36) of using the special table.

>so a few will happen before other people's initiative.
Technically how it works, but the books outright say "you probably want to do this all at once, or you'll bog down play."

>>52298284
how is dragonlance?

>>52298575
Wikipedia has a pretty complete list,
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_classes#2nd_edition_kits

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>>52298641
Arneson used armor as bonus hp.

>>52299071
The modules? Very railroady, especially once you get out of the first book (DL1-4). Basically, imagine a normal Adventure Path, but about twice as long.

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>>52296486
The total noobs are being excellent. They're trying on cursed rings, stealing treasure from each other, and getting genuinely afraid or excited about things in game.

They're probably going to reach Level 2 next session, assuming they survive.

>>52299071

The setting (War of the Lance/Time of the Twins) is fine. Not everything may be to everyone's tastes, but the thing about RPGs is you can decide what is and isn't canon.

I find I don't care for the Chaos War or post-Chaos War Dragonlance, personally.

As far as Kender are concerned, I tend to give them a little more leeway to express their personalities rather than "Carbon copy Tasslehoff ripoff". In my current Dragonlance game, there's a Kender npc the group has taken in who likes feathers. Fascinated by them. She collects them, and even has a special pouch on her belt for her feather collection.

Aside from the temptation to "handle" feathers, she leaves other people's stuff alone. The party wizard even made a point to tell her not to open the feather pillows in the keep they were staying at because it wasn't polite, and they'd get in trouble. She understood, rather than being some kind of social cripple with a lack of impulse control.

>>52298122

D&D spells are trash though, and the majority of retroclones use them.

They are legit some of the most boring, restricting, and unfun spells in any game.Why can't you use Tenser's disk as a sled and ride on it? Why can't use command it to move away from you so you can dispel it and let it drop something, like a lit match, on top of a patch of oil? Why does levitation only let you move up and down, not even let you 'swim' through the air or float? Why do I have to wait for fly to float across a puddle?

Not to mention for a once a day unblockable spell Magic Missile is still shit level one. Why does it only deal 1d4 damage? It should totally deal 1d6, barely even an improvement. Sleep is still far superior.

>>52299411
>Why does levitation only let you move up and down, not even let you 'swim' through the air or float? Why do I have to wait for fly to float across a puddle?
Might be edition dependent, but by-the-book you can jump any horizontal distance with levitate. It only controls vertical motion, but it doesn't *stop* other motion.

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>>52299411
Agreed on all counts. The goal when building these spells
>>52297910
was to make them at least as useful as Sleep, or if not as useful, then a lot more interesting.

But anyway, yeah, it's an issue. There was this anon talking about rewriting and rebalancing all the AD&D core spells, but I'm not sure how much time he's put into it.

Thinking of doing an OSR-inspired RPGmaker game using something the Implied Setting pdf as a basis for the setting

What mechanics would/not translate well? What are key things I should try to transfer?

>>52299543
>What mechanics would/not translate well?
Anything that requires rulings. Also positioning.
>What are key things I should try to transfer?
Throwing money/food to help run away.
Throwing burning lamp oil to help run away.

>>52299590
>Also positioning.
I was thinking of doing an abstract system based on marching order

>>52299623
Maybe take a look at Final Fantasy (NES)?

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>>52297910
Replace [dice] with a pictograph of a die/cube.
Replace [sum] with a pictograph of a pip (or with a bullet).

>>52299543

I don't have any experience with the RPGmaker series, so I don't know how well you can simulate things like time/resource tracking, which is the most important thing.

Time tracking is really important in OSR games, because wandering monsters are not something you want to tangle with because they don't provide a lot of XP or treasure for the effort involved in fighting them.

HP is something you're going to want to keep to a minimum. I've been playing a lot of Fire Emblem (the GBA one? I don't know exactly where the series starts), and the danger that even certain high levels are in is something that fits well with OSR (as does the "permadeath" of the series).

I also don't know if you can do gp->XP in RPGmaker, but if there's a way to give XP for treasure (or just opening specific treasure chests perhaps?) then I would do that.

Don't allow magic items to be bought in shops, and if you can implement item degradation that would incentivize the player to get magical weapons (which in this case, probably shouldn't degrade). In Fire Emblem, items have uses, and each attack uses one. When it reaches zero, it breaks. Simple, but effective.

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>>52299672
I'm really not a fan of pictographic systems. It always feels so kitschy.

"All Lightning Squiggles cancel out Green Stars when you roll them, but Red Stars add an extra Death's Head to your Death Pool"

This isn't WFRP 2nd Edition here.

Then again, the text is available, so if you want to make that edit feel free.

>>52299727
>WFRP 2nd Edition
More like 3E.

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>>52299889
Oh right, derp.

>>52299703
As someone who has some experience with VX Ace, you can do pretty much everything you want as long as you know how to code in Ruby or have the right script for the right job. I'd say it's feasable, but he'll have to mess around with scripts to make that work.

>>52299543
Check this out, I hope it helps with what you want to do. He also got a site with MV scripts if you got MV.

https://yanflychannel.wordpress.com/category/rpg-maker/rpg-maker-vx-ace/

>>52297910
neat

>>52300031
>>52299889
>>52299727
>confusing based 2E with shit 3E

I kind of hate you now.

>>52300059
I can program. It's not particularly intimidating to me.

>>52300091
VX Ace and every RPGM before it are in Ruby and MV is in Java if it helps.

>>52300108
>every RPGM before it
I thought Ruby only came in in XP.

>>52300127
I remember 2k3 being in Ruby but it's been a while, so I'm probably wrong on that.

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>>52300083
In my defense, I am an idiot.

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>>52300074
Thanks. Got a favorite spell?

>>52297910

I'm struggling to understand why these are called 'Orthodox' spells when they are just about the most weird and unorthodox spells around.

Personally, I really like scuttle, though like most of my favorite spells I debate it's usefulness.

>>52300321
GLOG has three schools of Magic: Necromancy, Illusion, and Orthodox
Coins and Scrolls has a variety of Wizard Orders, including the GLOG schools.
Skerples wrote those spells to be part of the Orthodox Wizard Order's spell list.

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>>52300321
Basically, Orthodox Wizards are the guys with beards who sit around and do Traditional Magic in Traditional Ways. They have Universities. They wear robes. They maintain that women make inferior spellcasters, and therefore, their order is open only to men. In practice, there are many students at the smaller colleges who wear disguises that wouldn't fool a goblin, but fool the Dean... as long as the tuition flows.

The other types of wizard are /proper/ weird.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-wizard-schools-stolen-from-goblin_7.html
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-elementalist-wizards.html

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>>52300163
Embed Memory is really fucked up in a way I like if it removes it from the caster.

Screaming Teeth is probably my favourite.

Lock Joints seems like a perfect low level evil wizard thing to do to a charging warrior. Or their horse.

Lots of specific utility spells for effecting different types of material/objects. They seem well suited as interesting spells to copy to a spellbook.

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>>52300321
Scuttle makes me laugh every time I think about it.

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>>52300476
>The other types of wizard are /proper/ weird.
The other types of wizard aren't /proper/ wizards.

>>52300321
>though like most of my favorite spells I debate it's usefulness.
Change the duration to [sum] hours.

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>>52300614
>The other types of wizard aren't /proper/ wizards.
Now you're getting the hang of being an Orthodox Wizard!

I'm trying to give every class a bit of its own twist. Elementalists can make deals with elementals. Their magic is more like being a zookeeper than being a scholar.

Animist Wizards steal spells from every school and don't give a fuck about your rules. They are Miyazaki spellcasters. Their spells can curse you so badly you'll wish you'd died.

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>>52300686
Scuttle is semi-deliberately on the lower tier of power. It's so fun you don't feel bad about casting it, but it's not so good that the novelty wears off. But yeah, if you wanted to buff it, [sum] hours would be a way to go. Or allow you to scuttle up walls with more [dice], or scuttle across water.

>>52300364
>Necromancy, Illusion, and Orthodox

Why illusion? Seems kind of the odd one out, who would want to play a Wizard that can only do tricks? If anyone knew you were an illusionist you would be powerless.

>>52300524
>>52300686
>>52300770

I only like Scuttle so much because that's my favorite idea for a magic user.

I've always dreamed of playing a Wizard that acts by pretty much exclusively animates cloth. And I don't even mean making clothing walk around, I more mean making clothes turn into ropes and stuff. The kind of Wizard whose robe looks more like a bedsheet, but is enchanted and never drags on the ground or catches on anything and seemingly defends him from attacks and arrows. The type of Wizard who curses his linens so if anyone tries to steal them they'll either tie them up or try to strangle them.

I think scuttle would be most useful though if you were paralyzed or unconscious, but you probably couldn't cast the spell then so...

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>>52300877
I think because it's a "classic" school. You get a few mind-control-like effects as well as:

Prismatic Ray
R: 200' T: [dice] creatures or objects D: 0
Target suffers a different effect depending on which color strikes the target. Roll a d10: 1. Red. Target takes [sum] fire damage, Save for half. 2. Orange. Target takes [sum] bludgeoning damage and is knocked prone. Save negates. 3. Yellow. Target takes [sum] lightning damage, save for half. 4. Green. Target takes [sum] acid damage, save for half. 5. Blue. Target takes [sum] ice damage, save for half. 6. Purple. Target takes [sum] necrotic damage and is blinded for [sum] rounds. Save negates. 7, 8, 9. Struck twice. Roll a d6 twice. Add effects; make one save. 10. Struck thrice. Roll a d6 three times.

It's their only damaging spell, as I've written them, but it's a good one.

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>>52300877
I'd sooner try to ask Gygax.

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>>52300906
You could probably get a robe that contains a spell slot (you can get wands with spell slots, so why not robes?).

And then you could enchant it with Scuttle. If you succeded and used 3 [dice] I'd say "Sure, you can have this spell activate under the condition "wearer is unconscious".

Problem is, the robe wouldn't know where to go, so you'd just be bumping and flipping around the place like a lunatic.

>>52300877
>who would want to play a Wizard that can only do tricks?

Good question. But enough about Necromancers, lets talk about Illusionists, wielders of "do fucking everything, and all knowing that their spells are tricks results in is 'congratulations, you are allowed A saving throw'"

Is there a good OSR class for a spell-thief? What system are they in?

>>52301137
AD&D f/m/t

>>52301137
>a spell-thief?
Like, a mage/thief multiclass, or somebody who steals spells?

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>>52300988
I'm not completely sold on the spell list for the Illusionist.

Also, by the rules... you don't get a Save vs Illusion. If you disguise a dragon as a hydra, people either know it's a hydra, or they know it's a dragon disguised as a hydra. They don't "see through it" unless they have a spell, like Wizard Vision or True Sight, that lets them do it.

Illusionist Spell List
1. Illusion
R: 50' T: [dice]x5' diameter D: concentration
You create an illusion of whatever object or creature you want. It can move at your will, but cannot make any sound or smell. Illusions can only add, not subtract. They can cover up a hole, but not create the illusion of a hole.

2. Disguise
R: touch T: object D: [dice] hours
You cloak the object in illusion, making it appear as another object of the same type. An apple could be disguised as any other type of fruit; a table could be disguised as any other type of furniture. A humanoid can be disguised as any other humanoid of comparable size. This only extends to the visual properties of the object. The maximum size of the object depends on how many dice are invested in the spell: 1 [dice]: human-sized, 2 [dice]: ogre- or wagon-sized, 3 [dice]: dragon- or tavern-sized, [dice]: ship- or bridge-sized.

3. Prismatic Ray
>>52300919

4. Mirror Image
R: 0 T: self D: 10 minutes
You create 1d4+[dice] illusory images of yourself, which move as you move and always stay within 5' of you. They are constantly stepping through each other, so that it is impossible to tell which is which. When an enemy attacks you, roll to see if they hit you or an image. An image vanishes as soon as it suffers a solid impact. Area effects such as a dragon's breath will cause all images to vanish.

>>52299071
>>52298284
The question is, why modern games are like dragon lance?

>>52301156
The MU/Thief multiclass.

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>>52301193

5. Mirror Object
R: touch T: mirror D: [dice] hours
You reach into a mirror-like surface and pull out a copy of an object adjacent to the mirror. The object that you pull out must be within reach of the mirror (as if it were a window), small enough to fit through the mirror (as if it were a window) and light enough for you to pull through with one hand. The mirror object looks and feels exactly like the object it copied. It doesn't copy any magical properties of the object. You cannot duplicate living things in this way. The mirror object pops like a bubble if it suffers a solid blow . If you invest at least 4 dice into this spell, it can copy the magical properties of an item, but those magical properties will only function once. For items with continuous properties, such as a flying carpet, the magic properties will last no longer than 10 minutes.

6. Light
R: touch T: object D: [dice]x2 hours
Object illuminates as a torch, with a radius of 20’+[dice]x10’ With a successful attack roll, you can touch a creature's face, blinding them with glare. If you invest at least 4 dice, this light has all the qualities of natural sunlight.

7. Hypnotic Orb
R: touch T: object D: [sum] minutes
You enchant a mostly-spherical object so that it's surface is covered with a captivating, shimmering pattern. Any creature who sees the enchanted object must Save or be compelled to sit still and observe it for the spell's duration. Flying creatures will land or circle it. You are not immune to this effect. The effect is broken if line of sight is broken, if something startles a target (a loud adjacent shout), or if the target see signs of obvious danger (such as someone killing their friends). Groups of statistically identical NPCs should make their saves as a group.

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>>52301229
8. Colour Spray
R: 15' cone T: sighted creatures D: varies
If [sum] is equal or greater to the creature's HD, it is befuddled for 1d6 rounds. If [sum] is three times the creature's HD or more, it is stunned for a round, then befuddled for 1d6 rounds. If [sum] is five times the creature's HD, it is stunned for 1d6 rounds, then befuddled for 1d6 rounds.

9. Wizard Vision
Pretty much this: http://goblinpunch.blogspot.ca/2014/05/optional-rule-wizard-vision.html

10. Wall of Light (General)
R: 50' T: wall or sphere D: 10 min
You conjure either (a) a hemisphere [dice]x5’ in diameter, or (b) a 10' by 10' panel per [dice], which can be arranged in any contiguous formation joined by their edges. The wall is intangible, but you can control what each side shows. It can be either (a) inky darkness, (b) light out to 30', (c) mirror, or (d) transparency. Both sides do not have to show the same thing. You can change these surfaces with a thought. If you invest 4 [dice] or more into this spell, you may make the duration permanent, but you permanently lose sight in one eye.

Emblem Spells
11. Mirror Self
R: touch T: mirror D: concentration
You reach into a mirror-like surface and pull out [dice] copies of yourself. The mirror must be large enough for you to pass through. Your mirror clones behave as you wish. They can walk and talk, but it cannot pick anything up. You can see through their eyes and hear through its ears. You can cast spells through them. You can switch places with your mirror twin as a free action. The mirror twin pops like a bubble if it suffers a solid blow.

>>52301193
>I'm not completely sold on the spell list for the Illusionist.
>Also, by the rules

I'm just talking about illusionists in general, no fuckin clue how they're implemented in your game.

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>>52301261
12. Fade
R: 50' T: creature or object D: [dice] rounds
Target phases out and becomes unable to affect the world in any way except visually. It stands or floats like an illusion until the spell concludes. Not even magic can affect the target. If they would be in a solid object when the spell expires, they are harmlessly shunted into the nearest open space. The maximum size of the object depends on how many dice are invested in the spell: 1 [dice]: human-sized, 2 [dice]: ogre- or wagon-sized, 3 [dice]: dragon- or tavern-sized, [dice]: ship- or bridge-sized.


So... thoughts? How useful is the Illusionist?

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>>52301137
The Complete Sha'ir's Handbook has a kit (Jackal) for that.

>>52301193
>>52301229
>>52301261
>>52301274

Stop.

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>>52301272
No worries. Quoted your post by accident. Not saying you need to care.

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>>52301281
Why? Is your monitor running out of ink again?

>Reduce most if not all Wizard spells to be useful directly in combat
>All other magical effects are done through items, rituals, or special materials that any character could do
>Challenges is the dungeon must now be overcome with thinking and tools as opposed to just having the MU blow one of his loads to fix it

How good is this idea?

>>52301396
Bad idea. It leads to boring spells.

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>>52301396
It's a worse idea than the opposite - no direct damage spells, only problem solving spells.

A really good spell does both. Some damage and obvious combat utility, but some other useful effects if you think about it.

Can you use Anklecrusher to crack the frame on a stone door? Sure.

>>52301210
>>52301210
>The question is, why modern games are like dragon lance?

Player-side, your characters are important. You're not starting out as the mooks that Conan kills by the dozen, you're starting out as Luke Skywalker.

GM-side, your plot is important. You are the director and the scriptwriter and you control the story.

>>52301405
>>52301444

I know people like Wizardly shit but at the same time I kind of like the appeal.

Making the Fighters and Clerics be best at fighting + healing makes sense, but it makes them kind of lame compared to the MU and specialist when it comes to out of combat utility. Obviously that leaves the Fighter high and dry but;
>Fighter is the best at tanking/dealing direct damage
>Cleric heals/reduces damage
>Thief does sneak attack damage
>MU manipulates the battlefield

I think it would be a pretty good working formula.

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What are some ways of identifying cursed items at 1st level without the use of an Identify spell?

Yeah, "put it on" is one, but are there other options, or things your players have tried?

>>52301833
Have your hireling/captive put it on.
Next you'll tell me you sample your own potions.

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>>52301855
So then what do you do if they go "Oh no, this ring of "shoot fireballs at will" has bonded to my finger. While I will slowly wither and die due to the Con drain, I can, while I live, shoot fireballs everywhere"?

Basically, if the item is valuable enough to keep or sell, even if it's cursed, but is now stuck on a hireling. Do you just... you know... induce a dungeon accident?

By original rules, could you test it on a pig instead?

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>>52301897
>Do you just... you know... induce a dungeon accident?
Unless most of your hirelings survive or you've built up a reputation in the region, you'd probably do that either way to recoup their wages.
But a well placed Charm Person would keep them in your services until they die from the curse.

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>>52302001
Fair enough. It seems like you'd need a reeeeally credulous hireling to get the ring tested in the first place. I mean, would you, for love or money?

Also, there's the classic divisions of Hireling (will follow and hold a torch for you) and Henchman (will fight for you competently and gets a share).

Are Camp Followers a separate thing in any system? Guys who don't go into the dungeon, but hang back and guard the horses, prepare the meals, and test the cursed rings?

>>52301576
Fighters are also the best at smashing doors and locks, and carrying loot and bodies back to civilization.

>>52302044
>I mean, would you, for love or money?
You seemed willing to a few posts back.
And most village rubes a vaguely aware of how magic items work at best.
Talk it up, get them bexcited, and ... BOOM! They run off with your non-cursed Elven boots.

>>52301396
Sounds like 4e, and not in a good way.

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>>52302114
When I told him to walk I mile in my shoes I didn't think he...

Ah well. So it goes. Hirelings. They're like mayflies.

>>52302001
>>52302044
Eh, I certainly wouldn't allow Charm Person to do anything of the sort.

Likewise, many curses activate upon the item being claimed rather than equipped -- certainly I'd have many items 'pretend' to not be cursed if tested on a guinea pig. Others may have more roundabout curses that activate if forced on people.

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>>52301833
>>52301855
>>52301897

Was a little inspired and made this.

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>>52291578
If you have good art, you can do anything.

But I do prefer porcs to greenskins to ensure nobody mistakes them for noble savages (though do to orc breeding/enslaving habits, they can come in an extremely wide variety of appearances), and use goblinzees (which I play as little sadistic torture chimps which like human sacrifice), as well as ugly lizardbolds which I play as vietcong cranked up to 11 (which like to eat humans if they can or simply to scare them away if they can't).

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>>52298374

Weird, I read your post in Hermes Conrad's voice.

>>52298792
>what else do you have?

Level and Class features, which is what should be important.

>>52301210

Because it made shitloads of money for TSR, and so became the model everybody used ever after.

>>52298792
>If Stats aren't going to be important and relied on... what else do you have? Fate Aspects?

Stats are EASILY the worst element in all D&D, and anything that de emphasizes them is good.

>And rolling for Stats and then being fucked over completely is part of the old-school charm.

Not at all. Straight 3s is fine in OD&D.

It is far, far easier to survive with straight 3s in OD&D than straight 7s in B/X or BECMI, or straight 12s in WotC editions.

>>52292567
>the "race-as-class" mechanism is beyond retarded

I once felt similarly, but have since warmed up to race-as-class. Mind saying a little more about what you don't like about it?

>>52302783
>Straight 3s is fine in OD&D.
Speaking of which, five 3s and 18 Charisma is almost incomparably better than dice 18s and 17 Charisma.

>>52302925
They seem to straitjacket characters into the Tolkien style, on top of creating this weird, every elf can shoot an arrow but none can pray or pick a lock. One culture of rangers despite even in the source material, weird cultures such as Tolkien's elves or Newhon Ghouls had a wide range of occupations and people.

>>52303060
>but none can pray or pick a lock

One of the many problems solved by removing the thief.

>>52303060
Clerics were a /very/ late edition to D&D.
Tacked on just before they published.
Thieves weren't added 'til Greyhawk.
Thieves and Clerics notwithstanding, c >>52294332

>>52298040
One way is to restrict armor by class... which is already partially done. I like the idea of making fighters the only ones who can wear plate mail and restricting clerics, dwarves and elves to chain mail. This leaves thieves with leather armor and wizards unarmored. Of course, if you're trying to include stuff like lamellar, lorica segmentata and so forth, why not just go for a light / medium / heavy armor scheme, with each class of armor including multiple, mechanically-identical types of armor?

>>52297910
Yoink!

>>52302560
What's wrong with orcs as noble savages?

>>52303875
Not that guy, but while I think that there's nothing wrong with noble savage orcs, murderous disgusting pig orcs seem to fit more with the style of old school D&D. That is, that all monsters are despicable in some sense. If you give sympathetic traits to the orc, the players will think twice about killing it or doing bad things to it and that might not be what you want in old-school play, at least not with relatively low-level monsters.

>>52304033
I don't know. Just because they have sympathetic traits doesn't mean you'd need to wave them in the players' faces.

All monsters seem like despicable remorseless rapist-murderers at first, and where some players can be content with that, the others can look under the veil and find something else.

I mean, it's not like humans would seem any better to them in turn.

>>52304033
>the players will think twice about killing it or doing bad things to it and that might not be what you want in old-school play
Isn't one of the core things about OSR that the players want to avoid fights as much as possible, because it's not worth it?

>>52304047
Yeah, I don't think that's a problem at all. I do think that that kind of fluff is more in line with later editions of D&D, but it's your campaign and world and you do whatever you want to do.

>>52304059
Avoiding fights and avoiding killing/hurting monsters isn't necessarily the same thing.

>>52304059
I don't think that's core at all. Its just in TSR editions, stuff gets reprinted piecemeal and its hard to tell what is an intentional change and what isn't:

1. OD&D has an example of a monster guarding a treasure hoard resulting in varying XP depending on what it is -- encounter scaling involving treasure XP being tweaked. Most people tend to assume, on the other hand, that treasure XP is treasure XP, as later edition smake no reference.
2. OD&D has reaction rolls for monsters *only in extremis*. Later editions make no reference to this as far as I can tell, and you can totally talk your way through many encounters. Its reasonable to limit this to languages known and require the PCs to make some sort of attempt at parley.
3. OD&D was hot off a combat system in which a 20:1 scale was used for outdoor encounters, meaning that 20-200 orcs in the wilderness is really a not remotely unbeatable 1-10 orcs in Chainmail. Later editions, of course, make no reference of this, so you have 20-200 orcs with no indication that its really supposed to be 1-10.

So its really, really hard to tell what was and was not intended about many rules.

>>52304047
On this note, how OSR would it be to have a whole party of monsters, instead of the usual humans and elves and dwarves?

>>52304527
I think it'd be called something like Reverse Dungeon.

>>52304618
Even if the monsters in question aren't defending their own dungeon, but are going out there having similar adventures as the regular humans and their ilk would?

>>52304830
Nothing really stopping you using the character creation rules from the Complete Book of Humanoids or Reverse Dungeon and going on an adventure. Just makes it a bit more difficult to get hirelings and sell shit without going into town, given that most monsters don't seem to have that much in the way of an economy. You'd have to set one up.

>>52304889
So instead of going to human towns they'd visit all those monster camps that're normally there for you to clear out.

Could be fun.

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Here is this, for all you shitlords that detest the Thief.

>>52304941
How'd you apply this to 2nd edition, where a bunch of other classes get some sneaky abilities and thieves can choose how to develop theirs?

>>52304980
Pretty sure this is aimed at B/X, it's clones, and OD&D.

>>52304993
I gathered as much, but thief is pretty useless in AD&D as well.

>>52305002
Just give them some extra percentage points if you think they're too low. And, as always, remember that thief skills are near-supernatural bullshit, not just 'standing in a shadow'.

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>>52302449
>Was a little inspired and made this.
Very nice!
>>52303259
Hooray

>>52302044
>Guys who don't go into the dungeon, but hang back and guard the horses, prepare the meals, and test the cursed rings?

Oddly, I always thought *that* was the distinction between hirelings and retainers: hirelings are the torchbearers that go down into the dungeon with you, while retainers are the alchemists, armorers, etc., that hang back at camp (and later, at your stronghold).

Of course, I can't actually find anything in the rules to back this up, but to me it seems like a logical way to split henchmen into two different roles.

How good is LotFP for running a campaign? I don't mean the modules, I mean the system. Would I be better off using BFRPG?

Is Rappan Athuk any good?

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>>52304246
>no reference to this as far as I can tell, and you can totally talk your way through many encounters.
LBB lets you talk your way out of a fight with anyone who shares your alignment.
It's in a passage about recruiting monster hirelings, right after the explanation of stats.