MTG LEGACY GENERAL

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tfw 12post vs Miracles
tfw miracles player has no idea what 12post is
tfw you drop a prime time and they freak out
tfw you drop newmrakul and they cry like a little bitch.

>>52278637
Everyone jokes about the 12 post v miracles matchup, but I feel like mentor made it actually winnable for the miracles side. It's still pretty unfavored, but it's not nearly as bad as it was.

>>52277519
My meta is slowly becoming a mix of Rare and Mythic decka. Shit's wild.

>>52279236
mentor actually helps A LOT. it gives them a swarm option. Its clunky sure, but it works. Honestly, with 12post its nice just to play against a non wasteland decks thats not combo.

>>52279587
that sounds like the best kind of meta.

>>52277519
Is it even worth it to make a casual/fun deck in the vintage/legacy environments? I have a tribal elf deck from my college days that I was going to update a bit....but question if it's worth it.

>>52280256
It's very fun. Proxy-friendly and the fee is cheap, so people are starting to move away from the ubiquitous decks and into more obscure ones. One guy brought a pretty dank Tezzerator build once and I think that was part of what set it off.

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>>52280553
If you can find a 93/94 group, that's more or less the casual Vintage/Legacy crowd. Most people that still play proper will have tier decks or anti-meta decks from what I've seen.

>>52280553
Elves is a real deck in legacy. You can find current lists online. It's closer to a combo deck than a tribal beat down deck though

Should I build food chain or aluren? I love creature decks with a combo and both look fun.

>>52282229
I think aluren is just better. All of your cards do something and generate value, while food chain plays bad cards like manipulate fate and misthollow griffin. Plus food chain can be abrupt decayed, and you need to additional mana to actually start your combo, while aluren combo is free

BR Reanimator? Worth it to build?

Whats the better deck to take to a tournament? R/G lands or Infect. More experienced with infect but I feel like it struggles in this current meta.

>>52283431
Sure if you want to have no friends

>>52283553
Jokes on you. I don't have any friends.

>>52283577
I'd be your friend anon :)

>>52283622
:3

What do you play?

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Post pictures of your decks. The sexiest will get a prize. Not mine, but sexy none the less.

>>52284951
I Still love the copters

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>>52284951

>>52280553
Depends on people you play with.
I am blessed with people who want to play "casual legacy" so only few actual tier deck and mostly brews with legacy power level. Tho the aim is that our brews can compete with the tier decks.

>>52283431
Everyone will call you a braindead mongoloid, but your rounds will last a grand total of 5 minutes.

I feel like brewing, does anyone have any really dumb ideas to base a deck on?

>>52284428
Lands/Infect

>>52289037
Try the card in the OP.

>>52289142
Didn't this general already make Nourishing Lich?

Is there any way to get XMage or similar on my phone?

>>52289037
battle of wits

>>52289297
That's been done a million times.

>>52289178
Yeah but I think there's room to explore. If you want something really spicy, there is a card or that turn your graveyard into you library. Use those.

>>52289320
ah, yes, but has it actually worked?

>>52289558
You've convinced me, I'll get to work.

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>>52284951
>tfw some gives you an excuse to post deckpics.

>>52291475
That's a good looking deck. Did you play infect in modern?

>tfw still waiting on cards to get here

How does manaless dredge work

>>52289278
You can put it on your comp and use a remote access app to play it on your computer with your phone. I'm pretty sure xmage is a java program though so you can probably convince your phone to run it. Might not work great though.

>>52298118
always choose to draw first. so on your first turn, since you'll have 8 cards, you must discard to hand size at end of turn (preferably you discard Phantasmagorian so you can dump the rest of your hand).
now dredge away.

>>52293434
I did, and I was of the opinion that I wouldn't fall victim to the "if you play legacy infect you won't want to go back to modern infect." But Brainstorm, invigorate, Daze, and berserk are powerful drugs.

>>52298118
"Work" is a strong word.

>>52298262
Well thankfully for you modern infect is sort of dead atm

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>>52284951
pox is 99.9 percent done now that the lillies came in. Just need to work on the side, and figure out if i want a tabernacle, or to put in a 3rd inquisition.

What are main changes of mindset and attitude one needs to undergo when transitioning from Modern to Legacy?

Will Miracles always be the best deck in Legacy? Or will something get unbanned and it get dethroned?

>>52299758
Depends on what deck you play

>>52291475
I am currently getting into legacy via infect precisely because >>52298491 and was wondering how many Wastelands should the list run, since that's the only card I am missing.

Also, is Flusterstrorm worth it (way too over my current disposable budget)? What about 1x mainboard Stifle?

>>52300015
infect

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Just one more griselbrand and they'll all be foil. Next the chancellors. Tidespout has been difficult to find.

>>52300588
Can I see a pic of your mana base camp?

Bump, will post deck tommorow

>>52299758
I think primarily it comes down to thinking about cards that are ubiquitous in legacy and nonexistent in modern. Force, wasteland, daze, stifle. Your spells might not resolve t1. Your first fetch could get stifled. One landers can be very sketchy. Daze can cause blowouts.

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>>52300984
Base Camp reporting.

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>>52284951

>>52300111
I can't comment on the counter magic, however I've not seen any deck that runs more than one wasteland. It does not strike me as an effect infect wants. effect infect effect infect effect infect effect infect effect infect

>>52299758
If you're playing legacy, no doubt you are here to do gross things. Just remember, your opponent is also here to gross things. Make peace with that and your attitude will benefit tremendously.

>>52299998
No deck is always top dog. That said, any unbans that would drastically shift the meta are likely too powerful to consider. A banning or a fresh printing would be the more likely scenario I imagine.

>>52299999

>>52304287
>cancer.dek.jpg

>>52305031
Show me your deck anon.

>>52305274
my most recent one
>>52299404
I'll post the others when I get home from work.

>>52305764
No wonder you dislike miracles. Cantrip laden decks often give pox fits, your curve is firmly in in counterbalance range, and mentor even dodges your edicts.

>>52306238
That's why I bring in 12post if I thing the meta is going to be heavily cancer ridden. Burn is my 'extra deck' to lend out to people. I just flexibility/mind-numbing guessing game that is countertop, on top of all the other shit like force that you may/maynot have. Its to much bullshit to fight though just to play magic. On top of having it all invalidated by terminus. I like miracle's as a concept. Using top to abuse miracle effects. But the decks only run 2 of those cards now, and even then most builds are entirely foregoing entreat, and only running terminus. So its lost most of its explosive 'cool factor' imo and become just another faggy hard control deck. Its almost like is a pedo creeping on a little kid because in this format mana cost are so small and consistently small that's its easy as fuck to prey on them. At least with shit like chalice/bloodmoon/ect, you know exactly what you can/cant do.

>>52306525
Is 12post actually good?

>>52306556
ish? Its really good against miracles. It also depends on is your playing the UG version or the mono green version. Its rewards you pretty well for knowing the opponents deck with needle calls. I play the mono green version, but I would imagine the ug version would be a bit more explosive/mid fucky with show and tell/ blue cards.

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>>52306525
>>52306730
>>52305031
Here you go sweetie pie, one of my others. List hasnt changeddsince I built it

>>52306525
A turn 1 chalice on 1/blood moon is far more frustrating than playing against miracles. Miracles is very interactive and a skill intensive matchup for many decks on both sides,whereas if some random prison/stompy deck is on the play and goes ancient tomb, chalice, go, what the fuck was the point. there is no "skill" or decisions to be made in that game.

>>52304217
Ty base camp. I assume you are going to decay route.

Sorry for asking so many questions. I am just interested in the deck and wanna know more about it.

>>52307706
I'll answer anything to the best of my ability. The green splash is indeed for decay and reverent silence. Abrupt Decay is a good answer to many things but a bit awkward to work with. Same for reverent silence, which is supposed to be a foil for Leyline of the Void. Some are attempting to drop red for blue for a show and tell package in the side. The other popular splash is white for some number of wear//tear. I've tried a white splash and didn't find it to be any less serviceable than the green splash but I do think the compliment of pithing needles commonly found in the white splash is less than desirable. Hitting Deathrite with a needle seems to be the optimal play but hitting a top could be good too. Ultimately I feel the decks speed renders both scenarios moot. I could be wrong. I don't profess to be an expert.

>>52308648
Seems like this deck is live fast die young type of mentality. Which makes the SB kind of moot.

What are the match ups like. Any miserable ones?

>>52310079
Not him but I find Karakas to be hard to deal with pre-board.

>>52307324
Imagine you knew that tomorrow you would be kicked in the balls super hard. Would you rather get kicked in the balls at that start of the day and get it over with, or be constantly looking over your shoulder and waiting for an inevitable kick in the balls. Id rather be kicked in the balls early and get it over with, rather than waiting guessing and worrying about it.

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>>52284951
I should probably go -1 Blazing Archon +1 Stronghold Gambit in the board but yeah.

>>52310079
It is very opener dependant. I mull aggressively for a decent opener and there are times when I'm not successful. I don't feel like I have any truly bad match ups, only susceptibility to certain cards. >>52310079 is spot on. Chalice decks can be a problem if they go first. Miracles can be difficult at times. I've sired miracles turn one only to have them draw Tundra > swords. In hindsight, that was a misplay on my part. I can invalidate half their removal with shroud but the other half still nukes my dudes. Anything with Deathrite can be a problem if you're forced to reanimate turn two on the draw. The best (read: fastest) cards against you are surgical, faerie macabre, and Leyline. The later two even dodge Chancellor. Leyline is the only one that really spoops me though since my answer is a bit shakey. My plan is to board against these and rely on speed for the rest.

>>52310693
I meant to tag >>52310206

>>52310206
Makes sense.

>>52310693
That is really eye opening. Thanks! I'm currently building eldrazi, but might give this a shot.

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>>52305764
>>52284951
Muh posts

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>>52305764
>>52284951
killitwithfire.dek

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>>52311886
forgot to put in my bolts. fml

>>52311861
Nice. Just mono green?

>>52310461
Tell me, how have the gambits been working for you? What matches do you bring it in for?

>>52312199
yep. Im not cool enough to play legacy blue. Although from the testing I did on xmage when i first found the deck, ti ug version was kinda hard to play, and felt like it was trying to do to much. Ifs really fun though.

Got a question: If I loot or Entomb an OG Emrakul, and with the shuffle trigger on the stack, can I drop a Goryo's Vengeance on Emrakul while it's in the yard to poop it into play?

>>52314568
I think? Im pretty sure you can snag sufflers out of the grave if you can respond at instant speed.

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Witch one would you try to pass in a double sleeved dragon sheild

>>52314568
Yes
>>52314670
Left

>>52314670
Left side.

>>52314670
people who use fakes should be taken behind their lgs and beaten. Discuss.

>>52316482
What if your LGS is OK with fakes and their Legacy nights are more popular because of it?

>>52316482
Magic should be treated as a game to be played and not a fucking stock market that stops people from playing the game. Discuss

>>52317763
I mean I'd be down for that, because it would increase the level of player in formats like vintage and legacy (which brings on it's own problems). However, I do think counterfeits and mass reprints can be harmful. While we might gripe at the people who own foiled out legacy decks they still earned that deck with work or smart financial planning (in terms of mtg, these people are multimillionaires on the stock market).

I guess it depends what camp you fall into. I feel I'd appreciate a deck more if I knew it was real and something I worked towards.

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>>52318562
are not*

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>>52318562
Not that guy but what if the deck cost only 500 to make instead of 2 grand? Would you still appreciate that? I play EDH mostly and none of my decks rise above 300 bucks (the ones that are close I have had for years and had to grab piece by piece). If I were to total up all of the money I've spent on EDH decks into "one deck" I would be able to play one Legacy deck, albeit any ONE in the format. I still feel that I had to work and trade my way to the decks I have and they are sometimes a tenth of the price of a Legacy deck.

Also adding a trip because I'm a >fag

I'm the guy who pops in every so often for advice to make Legacy-themed EDH decks >because I'm a poorfag

So far I have a D+T stax deck I'm turning into Loam pox Stax, a shardless Elfball deck, a dank dredge deck, and a monstrosity that combines Delver, Miracles, 4 horsemen, and DDFT.

>>52318773
Tell us more about the monstrosity.

>>52317763

Magic should die because people stop buying cards. Discuss.

Legacy should die because Wizards has to deck-check everybody at the door. Discuss.

I'd rather keep overpriced, terrible cards for terrible formats than trade them for better cards for better formats. Discuss.

I want to do things without having to pay for them. Discuss.

I hold everyone with whom I'm going to play a game in contempt. Discuss.

>>52318847
The deck's name is too long to fit in the "name" section of tapped out but here's a list (I believe it's up to date): http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/name-in-description/

The deck itself has barely ever won but usually because I fuck up a doomsday pile or someone disrupts it (e.g. casting murder on labman when I have the final draw on the stack).

Full name of the deck: Delver, the Miracle of the Four Horsemen of the ANT Doomsday.

>>52318773

>2 grand
>Merfolk, Dredge, PSI, and All Spells exist

>>52319008
So does burn and other more budget options, but I don't think that fakes of Life from the Loam and Spirit Guides are what he was talking about. He meant fakes that allow you to play Delver, Moat D+T, etc. without having to spend the down payment on a car.

>>52319097

I've made credit numerous times playing terrible decks, and I'm not good at Magic. If he can't, either he needs to find a better LGS, or he needs to get better at Magic.

>>52319156
>My anecdote makes the reality of crushing market prices not true

>>52319169

>My perception of the crushingness of market prices is accurate, in spite of the fact that people with no income can play Legacy

>>52319227
>All perception is based on personal investigation and opinions which are inherently flawed with biases which makes nothing ever certain

>>52318963
Pretty much all this

Only Legacy deck so far is a very pricy Burn deck, that I continue to throw money at. At least its been doing well lately.

I want to build Painter but its so much money for a deck thats honestly not very good anymore

>>52299404
I just bought pox and I'm slowly changing bits of the deck list and learning how to play, what do you think the best build is right now/what are you playing?

What's a good sub-$300 deck?

>>52320606
Only burn

>>52320606
I've seen Spanish inquisition without LED before and that's pretty cheap

>>52320885
Got a list?

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Cancer.dek/ coolest deck incoming

>>52318963
Dude, same.

>>52312211
Any matchup where to opponent has none to little creatures but you're expecting yard hate (Miracles, Storm, Lands, RUG Delver), you have 8 discard spells to get the 1 out of their hand before going for it. Also since I can't be arsed to run outs to Leyline (negative EV if they don't have it g2 but you're forced to bring the outs in anyway, you can still lose g3) also Eldrazi, you either spam discard and hope they don't have sphere effects and gambit or reanimate their TKS/Smasher t1 (siding out Exhumes) and hope to ride it to victory. They're pretty great overall.

>>52318963
>Legacy should die because Wizards has to deck-check everybody at the door. Discuss.
I'm hoping Wizards would do the right thing and abolish the Reserved List by that point.

>>52318964
Well, that is certainly something. Scanning it over, get the Talismans instead of that Cluestone/Keyrune bs, you can probably find them in the bulk.

>>52318963
Yes, tell me about all the money wizards makes on legacy. I bet the reserved list is making them so much money. Yeah, goyf SHOULD be a 100$ card even though its been printed 4 fucking times. Give me a fucking break dude. Wizards make fuck all money on legacy. Its one thing to ignore a format. But I fucking hate how they pretend to give a shit, then do dumb shit like mm and expeditions, master pieces. Reprints that don't actually bring any of the secondary market prices down, thereby completely missing the point of a fucking reprint in the first place. Wizards hates not standard/draft, and wants it to die. Magic cards might as well be fucking shitty sports cards with as much collector cock as wizard sucks and pampers.

Describe to me the last legacy match you played.

>>52324453
wew lad

Can you guys post more pics of decks?

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>>52324640
Game 2 on the draw against Show and Tell.
>-----Reveal chancellor-----
Island, pass
>draw, unmask pitching entomb
Ancient tomb, preordain, surgical extraction, spell pierce, grafdiggers cage, show and tell
>take surgical
>Swamp, ritual, entomb > griselbrand, animate dead target greebs
>draw 7
>unmask pitching thoughtsieze
Ancient tomb, preordain, spell pierce, grafdiggers cage, show and tell
>take cage
>Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, crack petal, faithless looting
>draw fetch-swamp
>discard chancellor-fetch
>crack petal, reanimate target chancey
>pass
Draw, ancient Tomb, preordain, scoop

Good draws and a strong game 2 will be yours but only if you reply with "Calm down paul."

>>52325342
"You'll have to wait till I get off work."
-everyone in this general

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>>52325483
Wait I have a pic on my phone of a nourishing lich list I played.

>>52325562
nice. I really like looking at legacy decks cause I'm too poor to afford anything dope.

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>>52325675
Dug up an outdated pic of ANT far ya.

>>52325483
Hey I did mine like I said I would
>>52321455
I'll post the other deck as soon as it comes in the mail to

>>52325824
How do you like SDT in ANT? It looks almost a little cute as a one of in that deck to me, but I see it pop up in lists that placed on MTGO now and then

>>52323955
My first thought was the talisman set from Ice Age but now I see what you mean.

>>52326717
I like it a lot but top is also one of my favorite cards. It's great at filtering and digging in conjunction with shuffle effects while protecting against discard. However, it is slow and occupies a flex spot. It often comes out for sideboarding.

Plunge into Darkness is the card that can take Nourishing Lich from tier 5 to tier 4.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lich-fit-2k17/
Discuss.

>>52329106
Can't discuss a broken link

>>52329106
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lich-fit-2k17/
I'm getting a 404 on this.

>>52329690
>>52329695
Try again I think I fixed it.

I want to get into legacy with a deck that's easy to pick up, with a lots of lines of play, that will remain consistently good

Do I play BUG delver or UW(maybe Esper) Stoneblade?

>>52324642
Am I wrong?

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>>52331188
Mostly just mad. witnessed

>>52331650
you can be mad and right....

>>52332021
Wizards primarily care about draft and standard. That part was correct. The rest was screeching about wizards not living up to how you expect them to opperate.

>>52330713
If you're unsure of what deck to play, but are confident on a play style (efficient blue decks as it seems to be in your case). I recommend either buying into a cheaper deck, or playing one on MTGO/Cockatrice/Xmage for a while. Feel the meta a bit, and use that as a gauge of 'what would I like to play most against the meta nowadays?' At least, that's how I did it before getting into Shardless.

>>52330713
Do you have an absolute shit-ton to spend on cards? Play BUG. They're all super good as long as they have Leovold in them.

If you want to spend less but still Brainstorm and Force of Will, Miracles is a lot cheaper. Stoneblade is a pretty dead deck.

>>52336066
Miracles is for fags, >>52330713
play 12post.

Banning Deathrite Shaman would fix the metagame. Discuss

>>52337592
It wouldn't. if the meta was even in need of fixing
Discuss.

>>52337592

I don't see why Deathrite should get the axe. It's one of the few maindeck-worthy cards to put the hurt on graveyard strategies.

It's also extremely (maybe inordinately) powerful, but I think it's serving a valuable purpose for the metagame, even though it's good against decks I play.

There have been several weird shakeups to the format lately, with the second-best deck fluctuating between Omniscience, Storm, Eldrazi, Death and Taxes(!?), BReanimator, and Leo. It's worth pointing out that this has occurred almost exclusively because of new printings, not bans or the rise of brews (Omniscience and BReanimator being the major exceptions). I think Deathrite's failure to cause a greater impact before or during that time indicates that there's no reason to ban it. If you really want to look for something to chop, it's probably a Miracles component.

With all that said, graveyard strategies are some of the cheapest (monetarily) that afford people an opportunity to break into the format with reasonably good decks, and graveyard hate like Deathrite makes this harder to do. So I can see why the card irks people, but I don't think it's problematic enough to warrant a ban.

If DDFT Guy or another Doomsday pilot sees this, what do you take out when boarding in Abrupt Decays + Tropical Island against CounterTop/sphere of Resistance/similar? Cantrips? Discard?

>>52337592
Banning Deathrite Shaman alone, would lead to a worse overall format. Neutering BUG by taking away arguably it's strongest card in a metagame that is very much Miracles vs. Decks that do well against Miracles; does not bode particularly well.

With that said, if Miracles were to take a hit - I would argue that the same would have to be done for BUG decks. Though, I think I would rather hit them somewhere else. Maybe TNN, maybe Hymn.

Deathrite being somewhat oppressive to Graveyard strategies is definitely a thing, but given that B/R can still just turn 1 Grisle/Iona you with fairly good consistency means he probably needs to be around. Reanimator is inherently one of the more powerful strategies in the format.

Honestly, while I think the format is fine - if I were to shake it up, it would be through unbannings. Starting with Frantic Search, Goblin Recruiter, and probably Mind's Desire.

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>>52339258
>Unban Mind's Desire
No thanks. Mind's Desire was only legacy in legacy for five days for good reason, the card is probably one of the most busted on the banned list and should never come off. Legacy would quickly degenerate into literally nothing but hot storm on storm action with it legal.

>>52339851
It was a really different time when that was the case. Even just the existence of Mindbreak Trap, Thalia, Counterbalance, Thorn of Amethyst, Chalice of the Void, Flusterstorm... like our tools at dealing with Storm are infinitely better than they used to be from back in the day when Storm may as well have read 'Uncounterable' on top of all the other shit on the card.

Just think about it- 4UU is not the easiest thing in the world to cast when every deck has already warped itself considerably around dealing with Ritual-based combo decks.

>>52338921
Omniscience is good now? Post a list, I want in.

>>52339258
No one wanted the goblin recruiter ban, it's not broken, the deck isn't ruining the meta, etc. but it had to be done. It encourages, even obligates, slow play.

Pox players, how do you like Liliana, the Last Hope? Do you think she's worth a mainboard slot? If so, replacing LoTV number 4, or as a 5th?

>>52339197
Caveat: I recommend playing at least 1 Decay main, probably 2. Less to sideboard and there are so many permanents to destroy these days

To answer your question: This depends a lot on the deck you're up against.
Against Miracles I sideboard pretty heavily. I usually take out all my wishes, an LED, sometimes a ritual, and a ponder or 2 and bring in the 4th Doomsday, Contract, Tendrils, remaining decays, the shelldock/emmy package (you can cut red lands for shelldock/trop this way), and Xantid swarm/flusterstorm if you play it.

Against Chalice/Sphere decks, I usually Cut discard. Cabal Therapy is not great because you don't know what lockpiece to name blind and you don't always have Probe, so decay is better.

Against random decks that might have Leo or Null Rod post board, I usually just stick with my 2 maindeck decays.

>>52341252
>>52339197
Forgot to mention, against DnT you want the decays, but you cut Duress for them because Therapy can hit their hatebears but Duress can't. you can bring in the 4th Therapy here too if it's in your board, and Void Snare too if you play that since you're going to be wishing for massacre.

>>52339258
Deathrite Shaman has little to nothing to do with the reason as to why BUG has traditionally had a good matchup versus Miracles.

>>52340285

That's not what I was saying; I was saying that over the past few years, each of those decks has risen and (to varying degrees) fallen during the time that Deathrite has found its place in the format. There may be other examples I missed, too; I haven't played Legacy for all that long. So my point was that Deathrite isn't the make-or-break card for putting a deck into the (almost-) top spot; it's certainly contributed to a couple of those decks' formation and dominance, but it's not singlehandedly warping the format to the point that I think it deserves a ban.

>>52339851
>>52340196

I'd be interested to see what would happen if Mind's Desire made a comeback. I don't think it'd be as big a problem as a lot of people seem to think, but it's definitely one that should come with a warning label because it's easily the best Storm card there is.

A non-Ad Nauseam single-card engine would be really cool to see, and it'd reduce the reliance on Past in Flames if the mana cost proved to be attainable. Speaking of, >>52340196 is right. Six mana is a lot to ask outside of Vintage, and the double-blue mana cost is also a hurdle that black and red rituals don't facilitate. There's also the fact that taxing effects pretty much neuter the card.

>>52289037
Mana severance, Abundance, Counterbalance

>>52342972
I don't think the mana cost is that unattainable. You'd just use tutor/wish + LED. I think card would only be a big problem if a decent 4 Desire storm deck popped up. The fear is desire chaining desires, which is broken as fuck. I think the feat of that (and rightfully so) is enough to keep it banned, even if the shell for it doesn't exist right now.

File: Mind Twist_B.jpg (49KB, 312x445px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 312x445px

Mind Twist did nothing wrong.

>>52343607
I think it would be a safe unban. I would probably try it, and while it's rather Christmasland going turn 1 Vet and t2 saccing him to Phyrexian Tower to Twist for 4 sounds pretty sweet.

>>52343607
The only way I can think of to make mind twist 'broken', is t1ing shit like a bunch of rituals and LEDs n stuff to make someone dump their opener. But at that point I would think youd be better off either play storm with all the rits, or reanimator and just going for a sire on turn 1. Are their other big things you can do with it, or am I just dumb?

>>52343607
I don't even think it's that good. If you think about the turn 1 rituals->twist idea that most people probably jump to, you need 2 rits before you do better than break even on CA. Ignoring the t1 land, rit->rit->twist(x=4), so that's a 3-for-4. Still not a better ratio than hymn although the fact that you hit more cards could be devastating to certain decks like storm. Nic fit could probably do better because vet ramps and gets value. I think it's a perfectly safe unban. I doubt it would make a real impact on the format.

>>52343231
Thing is you're looking at least at Ritual+LED to cast the Mind's Desire, since you would need the U from LED and the raw generic from Ritual. Then you would also need to be generating at least 7 Storm to be on the safer side.

I don't know, I definitely think that chaining Desire's is broken as fuck; and might end up being too good if the right shell is found, but I'm pretty sure the format can adjust to deal with it.

And after all, you are putting 4x 6-drops in your lean combo deck now. That definitely does have the potential of warping your average hands to be significantly more clunky.

I think a lot of things that are on the Vintage/Legacy B&R list are just well, relics of a different era.

>>52344916
I actually think that high tide would be the deck that would benefit most from minds desire, and an unbanning is what it needs to be somewhat viable again. Frantic search is fine, but nowhere near as powerful as minds desire

>>52339258
Goblin recruiter sounds like a nightmare. I think a card that might actually be good for the format is survival of the fittest. Especially with deathrite shaman and abrupt decay showing up in more than half the decks anyway, it likely wouldn't be oppressive at all. Also earth raft doesn't deserve to be on the list, but that probably wouldn't change anything

>>52345130
Yeah I agree. I think High Tide would be the shell that could make the best use of Desire right now.

>>52345194
Mmm, I mean Recruiter definitely is. While there are definitely slow play concerns with the deck, there are also slow play concerns with Miracles and Sensei's Divining Top. The good players will be able to Recruit quickly, while the bad ones will time out. At least Goblins wins the game in a reasonable timeframe outside of Recruiting. Yeah I can kind of agree with Survival, I think DRS+Abrupt Decay do put a damper on how good it can be.