Warmachine/Hordes General - /wmhg/

So Privateer release any over the top broken shit lately that requires community intervention to fix like most of Mk 3 or they have their shit together yet?

>>52273392
There's nothing really all that new that's busted.

Loki and the Eye of Truth are the best things that have been released recently, both are really goddamn strong, but not game-breaking.

There are about five broken cards in the game right now. Would be nice if they got looked at, but the problem is Cygnar goes from top to trash if you fix the broken shit.

>>52273466
Don't reply to obvious trolls.

Cygnar just needs the Journeyman made less ridiculous. Even eHaley is no longer all that broken. She's good, but you can't play around her much more easily than you could in MKII.

>>52273627
Less broken is still broken.

I dunno, what fixes Cygnar? Journeyman trades Arcane Shield for Fortify, Storm Lances lose Assault, Haley2 loses... something... does that do it without making the whole faction trash?

>>52273627
I'm not a troll, I just quit playing at the start of Mk3 and don't check on news.

I did go to check the forums for Khador to see what everyone is playing but noticed that appears to be gone now.

Not sure what your major issue is though, or is the community like this now because of Mk 3 complaints?

>>52273908
The game is apparently dying worldwide, even in the stores which get 10 newcomers for every leaving veteran.

Check out how your store community is doing, ignore the internet and just play (if you can).

>>52273908
>or is the community like this now because of Mk 3 complaints?

There's been a recent plague of kiddies from other generals coming in and trying to spread doom and gloom about the game. Generally, it's the same person, and they soon reveal themselves to actually never have played.

Mk3 had issues but they're way overblown by a select few. The idea for example that most of the edition needed immediate fixing is pretty ridiculous. All that really urgently fixing was Skorne.

File: IMG_20170108_134641.jpg (1MB, 3264x1836px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3264x1836px

I love this game and I wish I could play more often than once a week.

what faction should i play if i wanna shoot things but hate elves, lightning, and russian hats?

>>52274955
I love this game but I wish I could play with 3d terrain.

>35% winrate
>PP still refuses to acknowledge that trolls need a skorne level errata

>>52275059
Dwarven Mercs (= Ossrum + all the Bunnies). Or Legion. Or Protectorate with a few jacks. Skorne in Winds of Death theme. Cygnar without Storm Knights.

>>52275085
35% winrate according to a very limited set of data. Trolls do need something though.

File: legal.png (14KB, 420x282px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 420x282px

>>52273327
Dunno if it's relevant, but the discord is broken for me.

To keep it relevant, Can anyone either link it or give me the skinny on the massive overhaul that Skorne got, and what rules changed?

>>52275059
>>52275269
I was going to suggest Mercs, Legion, or Skorne as well. But then I thought maybe boiling it all down to just Mercs because Legion and Skorne are also basically just elves.

>>52275531
>Skorne
>Elves
No.

>>52275470
Discord is having server problems of some sort.

While we're on the topic, when it's *working* we've got a nice chat room on Discord here: https://discord.gg/KmXzbwD

>>52275269

is cygnar without stormblades/lances even worth playing?

>>52275562
You got 3.5 flavors of elves in wmh

Elves
Snow elves
-mutant snow elves
Desert elves

>>52275633
Sure. Lances are just the current hotness, but you can play other things too. Their jack theme force is pretty good. The trencher theme might be legit too, but time will tell. Gunmages are currently pretty bad.

>>52275652
>Desert elves
Just. No.

>>52275085
Ret has the same winrate, clearly elves need a fix too :^)

>>52275562
>>52275679
To be fair, they do basically just look like gaunt, nasty elves.

In fact, I'm relatively confident that they were probably envisaged as outcast elves or mutated untouchables from Lyossan society that formed their own civilization. Or possibly Lacyr's first try at making a sapient species that were promptly discarded.

I know PP are adamant that they're not elves, and they probably have gone in a different direction with their origins since then, I still believe this is how they probably started conceptually. I mean, not only do they look like fucked up elves, but their fluff is more intimately entwined with the elvish lore than any other faction.

>>52275059
Menoth gunlines are hilarious.

You can either go with kreoss1 and shoot inaccurate shit at things that can't defend themselves thanks to his feat or you play Malekus (the battlebox caster) to set EVERYTHING on fire.

>>52275847

are those tourney viable strategies? i dont care about them being top tier necessarily i just want it to be better than trollbloods.

>>52275790
>>52275531
This is along the lines of what I meant. They may not be elves but they look like fucked up elves. If someone doesn't want to play elves then they may not want to play the faction that LOOKS like fucked up elves.

>>52275847
I'll also be honest and say I just plain forgot about the Protectorate.

>>52275790
Yeah it might have been the original intent. I'm glad they went for fucked-up hobgoblins crossed with a perverted mix of human cultures instead.

>>52275899
Sure.

File: Kreoss1_75.png (182KB, 409x619px) Image search: [Google]

182KB, 409x619px

>>52275899
Not saying it can't work; It simply isn't the best thing Menoth players can bring to a tournament (Amon spams melee jacks to pound things into the dirt and High reclaimer has a ridiculous attrition/assassination game with his support spells and feat)

Kreoss1 one-trick pony feat lists are very similar to Sorscha1 guns in Khador and since she wins every now and then with that, you could too.

Take this meme list to my left as an example. It's certainly able to completely wash away certain lists, but against others (with lots of anti-knockdown tech) it just falls flat on it's faces.

>>52275899
Malekus is not really tourney viable. He may be when the Revelator comes out, though.

Kreoss1 is *definitely* tournament viable.

Sevvy1 and Sevvy2 are both tournament viable and run nice gunlines, too.

Protectorate, in addition to be able to run ridiculous gunlines, has one of the best anti-gunline casters in Amon, too.

File: Kreoss1_75 (1).png (225KB, 409x763px) Image search: [Google]

225KB, 409x763px

>>52276033
I'd suggest something more like this.

Kreoss1 is one of the best casters in the game, he doesn't get a lot of credit, though, since he's often boring to play, but he's a really strong second pairing for PoM's main tourney casters (Amon and High Reclaimer), since he fills in some weaknesses, and more than a couple of power casters (e.g., Haley2) don't like to see him across the table.

Feels like Menoth breaks the whole idea of factions having a broad theme, and does it in multiple competitively viable ways. Your opponent's pairing is Amon and High Reclaimer. How can you possibly choose a list here? Both lists require such ridiculously different answers that you're forced to play list chicken. Does PP want Menoth to be the list chicken faction?

>>52277620
Menoth is clearly the denial faction. For example, denying your opponent's chances of a reliable list selection.

>>52277668
That's retarded, shut up.

>>52277620
Which is exactly why ADR with sideboard should be the official format for everything competitive.

>>52277952
In a world where all casters are competitive, sure, I can agree with that.

>>52277620
They're hardly the first faction do play list chicken.

Besides, several factions can build reliable answers to both lists.

>>52275085
It's tough to be a Troll

>>52277952
Maybe if ADR was 8 casters or something. I wouldn't want to play in a big event and only play against the same casters.

>>52278823
>Maybe if ADR was 8 casters or something
I'm pretty sure that would make it shit. I mean, Convergence only has 5 casters, Grymkin only has 6. If you ignore versions, most factions barely beat that if at all. And there's still the offchance that one faction gets access to a super strong pair while other factions don't.

File: FB_IMG_1490051830247.jpg (82KB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 960x540px

>>52274955
>>52275071
Haha, I also wosh for 3D terrain, but the store I play at likes 2D for its ease of storage.

And if I could play more than once a month I might not leave my caster out in the open to be pulled into an assasination by gun mages

>>52278823
ADR doesn't mean you have to play the casters included, man.

File: 1460671154531.png (8KB, 200x210px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 200x210px

>>52277859
I'm sorry I forgot my [sarcasm] tags, anon

>>52279051
And if I could play more than once a month

Ouch. Condolences, anon.

>>52275071
>>52279051
>I love this game but I wish I could play with 3d terrain

If you want to use 3d terrain, just use 3d terrain. People use the mousepad stuff because it's cheaper and infinitely easier to get accurate measurements, but no one is stopping you from using whatever you want.

3d terrain is awesome and looks better on the table, but it's expensive and/or time consuming to make

>>52280792
One of the biggest reasons you don't see 3D terrain is most game stores usually have 40k style terrain, which is terrible for Warmahordes.

>>52280852
But or make your own then?

>>52280995
Harder to do. As pointed out, 2D terrain is much easier. Also, can't get stolen because you don't have to leave it at the store.

>>52281018
Then you're fucked? If you're not willing to put in the effort then I don't know what to tell you

Does anyone have rules for extreme colossal wrestling yet?

>>52279058
I thought that if the event was ADR it was required. When it started it wasn't but in 2016 it became its own event

>>52281443
Are you thinking Champions, which uses the same ADR roster, requires you to play those casters, but doesn't give you the sideboard?

It's actually a cool format now that Una2 doesn't shit all over every other caster in it.

>>52281443
That's Champions, a specific format.

ADR is just a rule in Masters style events.

Curious ex-player here. What is the current state of the game? I've heard a lot of angry words on /tg/ about PP "squandering" its customer goodwill lately but I haven't been able to figure out how. I see new factions are coming out, is that the issue?

>>52281812
People are complaining that PP closed the salt mine known as general discussion forum and the usual bitching and moaning

>>52281853
Well shit, sounds a lot like what GW did.
Also, reposting from last thread:

So 75 points in the max? Huh. Well, in my current collection, I have this:
-Current Khador Battle Box
-Mad Dog Warjack
-Kazaky Elminators
-Manhunter
-5 Man O' Wars

Is this salvagable, or should I try and go in the opposite direction with what I have? The only thing I refuse to do is include Winter Guard, as I find their pricing and posing completely ridiculous. I also find the idea of using grunts instead of cool robots, power armor and Robots rather dumb. I believe what I have now is around 40 points or so, last time I checked, so what would you recommend to bring my list up to snuff for 75 point games.

>>52281940
>Well shit, sounds a lot like what GW did.
That's what people will screech and shout about. It kinda sucks if you really liked the forum but it was a shit hole that everyone made fun of for a reason.

At least there still is a forum for general list, tactics, and community discussions. GW removed their old forums entirely

>>52281812
MK3's launch was a complete cockup for a number of reasons - the game needed a Day 1 errata and a substantial FAQ, which the developers seemed extremely reluctant to provide. To the point where certain obviously broken mechanics (Gang not triggering if the target is knocked down, making units which have Gang and Knockdown self-defeating) were described as "working as intended" until PP finally caved. There were, and still are, some massive balance issues as well. Skorne were completely unplayable (they have since had a total rewrite) but shooting is extremely dominant and certain factions (Cryx and Trolls come to mind) are riven with crippling internal flaws.

To add onto this, PP recently ended the Press Ganger program and are moving all their rules to digital, and while there are some valid reasons for these decisions, it's also pissed quite a few people off. And then they completely rebuilt the forums, killing faction communities and shunting most of the discussion off to their social media feeds. It feels a lot like they're trying to silence the growing discontent amongst the fanbase.

>>52282003
>To add onto this, PP recently ended the Press Ganger program and are moving all their rules to digital
The PG thing initially really pissed me off but after taking a but it's not really a big deal. The whole WotC lawsuit fucked us, it sucks, but it is what it is. Life will go on

The digital rules thing? I don't know how you cry about free rules and cards forever.

>And then they completely rebuilt the forums, killing faction communities
And nothing of value was lost? I'm not going to miss it. Any constructive conversation just turned into autistic screeching.

>>52282003
>>52282114
Meant to add that the rules and internal balance issues are truly fuck ups. They need to communicate at least marginally better than a rock and admit when they're wrong.

It looks like CID is a pretty good step in the right direction. Hopefully they follow through and don't fuck this up

>>52282003
>>52281812
PP's biggest issue is PR, full stop. Even some of their more valid decisions are cocked up by their inability to properly explain themselves.

Take the gang shit. If you're unaware of the interaction, what occurred was this: Gang/Flank/some other rules required you to be engaged with an enemy to trigger, a change from Mk2.

Well, people quickly noticed that knocked down or stationary models can't be engaged, meaning that Gang didn't work on them. So, for example, if a Radier rolled a crit knockdown, she lost the gang bonus immediately.

Alright, unforeseen issue, likely borne out of rules as intended vs rules as written(IE, the devs played it as it worked and never bothered to check the impact of the wording change). So far, so good.

So, when it came up in the rules forum, an Infernal ruled that this is how it worked, and that it wasn't being changed.

Now, here's the issue. See, PP has a pretty reasonable rule that Infernals can only interpret the rules as is, they can't make changes. This avoids the rules forum making changes to the game where people can't find it, or where it's not wildly known, they can only state how the rules interact. This avoids some shitty changes, and is generally a good idea. And this is why it got ruled that Gang did in fact function this way.

But where they fucked up is that instead of explaining this, they simply posted "Working as Intended", which is likely the worst thing they could have said. Pissed basically everyone off, because what was clearly a broken interaction got labeled as part of the game, and then PP didn't say shit else.

Of course, come next errata drop(which was like, two weeks later), it got changed back to melee range, and the whole issues disappeared.

And you can point to this being the issue with a lot of things they do, just failing to explain themselves. They've gotten better at about this shit, but there's still a sour taste in a lot of people's mouth over it and what it might foretell.

>>52282114
>I don't know how you cry about free rules and cards forever.

I'm in the UK, and I much prefer having the physical cards - faffing about with smartphone apps is the last thing I want to do in the middle of a game. If I download and print the cards at home, they'll be lower quality than the real ones. I can take them to a print shop - but that costs money on top of what I already pay for the model. Same problem if I buy the cards direct from PP, with the added problem of shipping fees. And these cards might need to be rebought every couple of years as rules change and get errataed. Either way, I'm losing out.

It's not a big thing, and if it was on its own, it wouldn't sour me on the game at all. But it's one more frustration on top of many that PP have thrown at me recently, which isn't helping their case.

>>52282003
As far as the PG thing goes, I know a good number of them who were basically holding their communities together with duct tape and prayer, and most were only doing it out of a sense of loyalty. The sudden axing of the PG program has caused a lot of people in charge of organizing game nights to rethink their brand loyalty.

>>52282505
There was no avoiding it though, the WotC lawsuit is going pretty badly for them, and PP can't even say why they killed it because that would implicate themselves.

>>52279051

I know this army...

Hi Daniel

>>52282505
>The sudden axing of the PG program has caused a lot of people in charge of organizing game nights to rethink their brand loyalty.
Those people are stupid. You should be organizing events because you like the game and want a community. If you were a PG before you basically got very little for your work. Now anyone can organize events and get rewards when they couldn't before.

It's not perfect, neither was the PG program, but acting like communities will suddenly vanish is silly.

Been interested in this game for a while, but finally have the time to start. I see a lot of posts here and on other forums that the game is going to shit, unsupported etc. etc. but I haven't seen any actual issues raised, only general complaints.
Is the death of Warmahordes a meme or is it a good time to start? I want to play Circle fwiw

>>52282646
I'm no lawyer, but it feels like they massively overreacted. Unless there's something I'm missing the WoTC program bears very little similarity to the PG program.

Either way it doesn't much matter, they can say whatever they want but actions speak for themselves, their (ex) volunteers know how much PP valued them now.

>>52282665
>communities will suddenly vanish is silly.
Never said communities would vanish, but a community doesn't have to play Warmachine.

>>52282684 here, read rest of thread and the issues really don't seem crippling. Has the community disservice really done that much to damage groups?

>>52282646
>>52282720

The WotC debacle is a decent theory, but unconfirmed. It did happen in the same state that PP is based in, so it's likely that the lawsuit was the straw that broke the camel's back.

The truth is that the PG program was too bloated and too expensive for PP to maintain. I've talked to several judges and PGs with close ties to PP and I've heard the same thing every time: it's sad to see the PG program go, but every one of them saw it coming.

File: Man - O - War Shock Trooper.png (2MB, 1012x1031px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1012x1031px

>>52282114
in my case I like having the professional made cards in front of me so I can read and mark them as I please. whenever my opponent uses something like warroom, I find it to be a pain in the ass to ask to see his rules because he needs to unlock the screen, scroll through the list, etc, etc and I feel like a dolt holding everything up when I stand there holding his tablet reading through the thing as opposed to "hey can I see sorcha's card" "yeah here ya go".

plus iv had more then one occasion where my foes tablet and/or phone ran out of juice during a game and they couldn't really charge it.

I just really prefer the cards

>>52282720
The problem is that under the law, you simply can't be a volunteer for a for-profit company, if you're doing work for them, you have to either be under contract or be a paid employee.

PP neither has the money to fight this(and while Hasbro does, they're very unlikely to win because of the issues of precedent), nor the resources to actually regard PGs as employees. So they had to kill it.

>>52282764
It's never entirely one factor, of course, but the very issue of the lawsuit means it will never be confirmed, because that would be an admission on PPs part of the nature of the program.

And yea, state labor laws are also a huge deal in the WotC suit.

File: Reznik1_50.png (187KB, 409x577px) Image search: [Google]

187KB, 409x577px

So far 2-2 in my league. Any tips/changes I can make?

>>52282684

It's like half people trolling and half people in areas that legitimately have had their Warmachine groups fall apart or at least fracture.

The actual state of the game rules is better than it's been in years, don't let anyone tell you different. The core rules are rock solid, and the balance between each faction is closer than it has been in a long time, and is looking to improve with Will Pagani helping with playtesting, the Community Integrated Development system to catch unpredictable issues ahead of time, and the dynamic update system to quash problem areas that slipped through or to provide minor boosts to struggling models.

That isn't to say Mk3 is perfect, it had a very rocky start with the faction rules being leaked early and a core rulebook that desperately needed some proper proof reading. It would be easier if we could look at the first 6 months of Mk3 as the beta, but a lot of people can't let go by how much PP dropped the ball early on, despite the many improvements.

In faction balance also remains to be a major issue for some factions. While every faction can compete, there are a few that only have one or two list pairings that do well while the rest of the faction flounders, such as Cryx, Trollbloods, and Minions. This makes it extremely difficult for people who play those factions to have any optimism as it seems like everyone else has it better than them.

Warmachine is still very strong, and easily still holds the title of most popular miniature game after WH40K. The truth is that with all games, Warmachine's 'health' is completely irrelevant in that it could be very good or very bad, but what ultimately matters is your local meta. My local meta has seen a huge resurgence in the game, especially with the erattas earlier this year. I know that's not the same for everyone, which is the point.

>>52282745
Well yeah, if you, or someone else, is not willing to put the effort into your community it's going to fade. That would happen regardless of the existence of the PG program, communities live and die on the backs of a few dedicated individuals

>>52281940
My reply to this only got done when the other thread had locked. That pool should be a fine start as long as you aren't expecting to go to a national tournament and win. An honest assessment of the models is that the Eliminators and Juggernaut are great, the Decimator is overcosted when compared with other options and doesn't jive well with Kozlov's kit, ManO'War Shock Troops shine pretty well with Kozlov specifically, and the Mad Dog and Manhunter are pretty overcosted for what they bring most of the time. Using your list as a core I'd try this if you insist on running all of what you have now.
http://conflictchamber.com/#b31bf-7o0d0deX9vbR8G7Qgd8n8qdi86

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points

(Kozlov 1) Lord Kozlov, Viscount of Scarsgrad [+28]
- Decimator [16]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Mad Dog [9]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
Great Bears of the Gallowswood [9]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
Manhunter [4]
Man-O-War Kovnik [5]
Iron Fang Kovnik [4]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]

If you have some cash for a list more tailored to Kozlov I'd try this.
http://conflictchamber.com/#b31bf-0d0d7t9vbR7H7I7Qgddi8q8G86

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points

(Kozlov 1) Lord Kozlov, Viscount of Scarsgrad [+28]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Marauder [10]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
Great Bears of the Gallowswood [9]
Iron Fang Pikemen (max) [15]
- Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard [4]
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
Iron Fang Kovnik [4]
Man-O-War Kovnik [5]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]

Go to ground should give immunity:electricity.

C'mon, PP :^)

>>52281940
To explain some of the synergistic elements that the lists offer: Juggernauts are accurate, hard hitting, hard to kill, and cheap warjacks. Marauders are even cheaper warjacks that are weaponmasters against huge bases. ManO'War Shocktroopers with their UA are fantastic zone holders, and with the ManO'War Kovnik and Tactical Supremacy they can Shield Wall and move 9" in a turn (or 11" if Kozlov feats). They are also good targets for Fury. Great Bears are can openers that benefit from either Tac Sup or Fury and the Iron Fang Kovnik makes them Steady and Tough. Sylys helps Kozlov with his many upkeeps. If you're not a fan of the unit of Iron Fangs as another relatively fast jamming unit that hits hard try swapping in another Juggernaut or Marauder and another unit of Eliminators, or some Widowmakers for ranged presence. Kozlov can get work out of a lot of things.

>>52281812
Gamedesign-wise everything they do so far seems an improvement in a step back - two steps forward way.
But somehow they manage to make it seem like they fuck up everything.

>>52282771
I can second your feelings, and add that I've had a particularly salty fellow refuse to let me see his list or damage boxes in Warroom during a casual game before. Even without shitty sportsmanship, tablets make people clingier by nature.

>>52285259
Don't play with people like that?

>>52275071
Wmh is the only game I prefer with 2d terrain, honestly. The measurements are too precise

>>52283802
Doesn't make sense from a logical perspective and doesn't actually solve the balance issue.

>>52283802
What manner of shitposter UA are you getting that recursion from?

>>52284853
Hang in there spengebub

>>52275071
I prefer 2D terrain because I'm tired of having to deal with fat fucks accidentally bumping the 50ft table and knocking your precariously-balanced model over, messing up his placement.

Can any PoM player can comment on how good Pyrrhus is? He seems a bit expensive

>>52285346
You don't choose your opponent in a tourney

>>52285586
>the joke

>your head

Can someone explain if they fixed throws in some errata?

Previous, I remember being able to get around rolling to hit by throwing directly away from me targeting a point barely behind the target. So if I was the exact throw distance away, the target gets knocked down.

Does that still work? And "directly away" from me doesn't specify a direction, right? (aka, I could throw the model behind me?)

>>52286928
They fixed throws by making it so you can no longer throw your own models.

>>52287135
Oh okay. But everything else is still possible?

>>52287155
Yup

>>52282003
>"working as intended"

To be fair this is not something that came from PP's design team, it was from a forum mod who only had authorization to tell people what the rules are as they are. He shouldn't have said 'working as intended', but that quote clearly didn't reflect PP's opinion, and it was really fucking stupid to get riled up over it.

>It feels a lot like they're trying to silence the growing discontent amongst the fanbase.

In reality, they're probably just dropping the volunteers that help moderate those parts of the forum.

>>52287651
So where's the link to the post where the infernal admitted that he made the judgement without checking with the designers? The judgement that sat "checking" for days before it was finally answered?
This claim sounds like apologist bullshit.

>>52288117
>This claim sounds like apologist bullshit.

And your post sounds like ignorant twaddle.

Infernals don't deliver information on whether things are being errata'd or whether things are functioning as intended. They clarify what the rules, as they are on the page, state. "Working as intended" or "won't be errata'd" are not something Infernals should ever really say, as they don't have access to the information.

>>52288239
What do you think "checking" means, dipshit? I'll give you a hint, it's not "reading all the rules again".

>>52286928
You can't throw model behind you.

>>52287651
>In reality, they're probably just dropping the volunteers that help moderate those parts of the forum.
They interviewe some PP guy and he said forums were shut down because of negativity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84PPDEe4TaM&feature=youtu.be
They literally got too butthurt.

>>52288572
There was a post in the CID forum that basically confirms this.

>Online communities are notoriously toxic and nasty to deal with. This is partially because humans are naturally more motivated to complain about things they don’t like than they are to praise the things that they enjoy. It is further compounded by what is known as the online disinhibition effect (the abandonment of social restrictions and inhibitions found in normal face-to-face communication when using remote electronic communications). The anonymity provided by the Internet makes it very easy to dehumanize and disrespect people who are not in the room with you. It is easy to forget that the “the*y”—often used in a condescending manner—is actually referring to real people, most of whom are sharing an office while we read your feedback.

>For the protection of PP staff members and the overall health of the community, there is a zero tolerance policy regarding toxic behavior on the CID forum. You may be entitled to an opinion but you do not have the right to verbally abuse other people. On these forums you are required to be respectful and constructive. Acceptable behavior on the CID forum is strictly moderated and anyone who breaks the Terms of Service can be banned without warning.

>>52288733
Well, maybe if they stopped being fucking stupid they wouldn't have to be called out on being fucking stupid.

>>52288335
I still fail to understand, it seems.

Infernals did not deliver erratas, deliver news on erratas, or confirm whether rules are working as intended. They address grey areas and ambiguous issues that crop up. They ask the design team things like "Oh, so you can do this when doing [x], does that mean you can also trigger [x] off it?"

The answers given are for the rules as they are. They have nothing to do with whether things are working as intended. An Infernal is not going to know if there's an errata in the works, or if a big problem that's going to be addressed has been brought up via this question. If they say things are working as intended, they are doing their job incorrectly, as they're not given that information, and it's never been their job to deliver that information.

>>52288826
This.

The rules philosophy is that you play the game with the rules as written. When unexpected interactions came up (specifically, Gang vs. engaged vs. knocked down), they looked at the rules, decided "welp, this is what the rules actually say, so we're going to clarify that that's how you play the game, and fix it in an errata".

Which is ok; the goal of the philosophy is to not have actual rule *changes* in the rules forum, and if something is written in a dumb way, you either play it like that or wait for the official errata.

So that's what they did. The problem is they didn't just straight up say "Look, our rules policy is that they work as written, so that's how it is. We realize it's dumb, and it will be fixed in the next errata, which won't be *immediate* because we don't want to be generating errata constantly so it's hard to keep up with the current state of the game."

>>52288783
>maybe if they stopped being fucking stupid they wouldn't have to be called out on being fucking stupid

Basically this. Yes, people are more likely to complain than to give praise. But most of the time they're complaining for a reason - because you've done something they dislike and they want to make their frustrations known. The forums only became "toxic" because PP made so many mistakes in so short a time, and were seen as dragging their heels over fixing them. Killing the forums isn't going to stop people complaining, but it will prevent PP from directly communicating with its players and trying to allay their concerns.

>>52282654
*waves*

So, we know that Khador's theme is Sacred War.

What about everyone else?

>>52282347
I think the last time I played a real game this happened to me. My raiders were about to gang bang behemoth, first lady knocks him down and then he tried to enforce that bullshit. I just walked off

>>52290049
Wat?

>>52290049
Grymkin's theme is Sacred Trump

Is it considered WAAC to bring Theme lists to PUG/casual games? I picked up some minis back in Mk2 and I'm looking at jumping back in with pNemo and a heavy Warjack list, and that Heavy Metal theme list would let me take both of the solos that I own (Arlan and the Journeyman) for free.

Currently own:
pNemo
pStryker
Thunderhead
Ironclad
Defender
Lancer
Charger
Hunter
Unassembled Heavy Kit (Ironclad, Defender, Cyclone)
ATGM+UA
Journeyman
Arlan

Looking at picking up some Sword Knights and a Firefly.

>>52290646
WAAC doesn't exist in Warmahordes

>>52290646
warmahordes is inherently WAAC, you don't have to pretend otherwise. Just pay how you like within the rules.

>>52290646
>Is it considered WAAC to bring Theme lists to PUG/casual games?

I think a lot of it depends on the Theme list in question. As a general rule, if you think the list wouldn't be fun for someone to come up against without forewarning you were bringing a Theme, don't bring it.

>>52290800
>>52290933
Casual Warmahordes groups that have absolutely nothing to do with the tournament scene are a thing, you know. Some of us even play themed Scenarios and campaigns.

>>52290646
There's nothing inherently overpowered/WAAC/whatever about themes *in general*, but they have the potential to be overpowered, like a lot of stuff in the game.

>>52290969
My nigga.

That said, I've found that, at least in Mk3, my armies get more optimised the closer they are to lore theme. This might just be something about the factions I play, but I rarely feel like I'm sacrificing cool fluff favour of practical crunch anymore.

I think you nailed it right on the head. That post and the response pretty much turned the tide.

note to all: when in doubt, take a few moments to explain it well. it will save you a lot of future embarrassment and heart-ache

>>52291830
Who are you talking to, brosephus?

>>52291027
>>52290969
>>52290943
>>52290933
>>52290800
>>52290646
I'm not sure you guys understand what 'Win at all costs' implies. You might remember if you've played Warhammer before and things like modeling for advantage or forcing poor rules interactions to your advantage.

For example deploying your Land Raiders sideways and then rotating them 90° to get a few extra inches of movement at the start of the game. Shit like that.

You don't really have interactions like that in Warmachine. The rules are the rules. Playing a strong list isn't WAAC, it's just playing the game the way it's meant to be played.

>>52290049
Cygnar:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kN87BwWkTM
Menoth:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe8qRj12OhY
Ord:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VNsjjYRgjc
Old Cryx:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlU1LRR2-Es
Current Cryx:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27mB8verLK8
Legion:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLKRery2tnk
Llael:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afzmwAKUppU
Skorne:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBfWKmRFTjM

>>52292365
>brosephus
"Brosephus"? As in, the 1st century Bro-ish scholar who famously published "Antiquities of the Bros"?

That's fuckin random, Bro. That's random as hell.

So in light of the coming theme force books I'm curious what it means for Ret. The faction has been pretty compartmentalized from day one so it seems like it would be easy enough to start making House themes but I wonder what it means for casters. Are we going to see Houseguard casters? What about jacks? MkII theme forces had a really annoying habit of constantly disallowing Vyre jacks and the only current MkIII theme does as well, along with Ossyan and presumably Ghyrrshyld.

Actually jacks in general have me curious. Shick mentioned in an interview with Brave New World Games that there are Trencher mechanics and longgunners coming for the trencher theme, are we going to start seeing Trencher jacks? Would we want that? Is all this really a good thing like I think it is or is it just PP trying to get money out of units with overlapping rules?

>>52292948
>For example deploying your Land Raiders sideways and then rotating them 90° to get a few extra inches of movement at the start of the game. Shit like that.
You thought THAT was WAAC? In Fantasy, they used to restrict turning movement by angle/width of the front row of a unit, and people would make units that were 1 man wide by 50 men deep and deploy them sideways, then turn them 90 degrees on turn 1 to swing the back guys all the way into the opponent's deployment zone in a single move. Most famously, you could use it to launch goblin fanatics into the opponent's deployment zone on the top of 1.

Warmachine is (mostly) immune to that kind of silliness, bar occasional oversights like Hail Hydra and the original Satyxis Hag, which typically get fixed within the week. If you go back and look at the old Page 5, it's implied that Warmachine was created SPECIFICALLY because the devs were sick of that kind of shit happening in warhammer.

>>52293082
>You thought THAT was WAAC?
It was the first example I could remember the interaction clearly. There were, and still are, plenty of hilarious examples but it's been a while since I played Warhammer

Remember kids, when a model takes lethal damage it's first disabled, then boxed, then destroyed. If a faggot tells you that Wurmwood's Hellmouth spell straight up removes models from play, they are wrong. You still get to roll tough against it.

>>52293903
The only time you don't roll Tough is either when you are knocked down, or an ability specifically prevents it/healing.

>>52294103
Tell that to the faggots at my LGS who don't even know how their own rules work and insist on you not checking because they know so why would you?

>>52293004
>Are we going to see Houseguard casters?

Unlikely. How many new casters are slated for this book? Two? Three? One? It'll have Elara and 4shade in it, so that's two slots taken up already.

Personally I want to know when we're getting our fucking Vyre lights. Where are they, PP?

>>52288826
This is not correct. Infernals frequently passed on information from the dev team, like "this will be fixed in the next errata" or "this has been confirmed to be working as intended".
There are a lot of people confidently claiming "this was never their job", though I doubt any of those posters are in a position to know such a thing. All you need to do is read through the rules forum to see it happening for years. If that was not their job, don't you think PP would've pulled them up on it long before now?

>>52295171
Soon.

So do I run Swordsmen in just about any Skorne list that supports infantry? They seem insane with Makeda1, but now I'm looking at Xerxis1. 15/16 Swordsmen rolling PS12+5d6 on feat turn? Like nigger excuse me?

>>52296331
Wait, PS14+5d6 on feat turn because of Stir the Blood. Average of 31.5 damage minus your ARM. That's dumb.

When is Cryx command book coming?

>>52292956
>Retribution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYZfeY8Vg0E

>>52292956
>>52296753
>Trollbloods
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciPu4DnKBuM

File: 1297683753394.png (299KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

299KB, 800x600px

>>52292956

>Legion:

So moe~

>>52296683
April 26th

>>52296348
PS11+5d6 followed by PS9+4d6 is going to be better unless you're swinging at ARM21 or higher.

>>52299884
Stir the Blood only applies to the first melee attack in a turn as I recall. Not sure where the 4th d6 on the second swing is coming from in your hypothesis.

>>52299938
Right, they're PS9, PS12 on combo strike. Fully loaded -- Feat, Stir the Blood, Power Swell, and charging, they get, either:

14 (9 base + 3 Combo Strike + 2 Stir the Blood) + 5d6 (2 base + 1 charging + 1 feat + 1 Power Swell)

Or:

11 (9 base + 2 Stir the Blood) + 5d6 (2 base + 1 charging + 1 feat + 1 Power Swell)

and

9 + 4d6 (2 base + 1 feat + 1 Power Swell)

They're about the same swinging into ARM 21; higher the former does better, lower the latter.

>>52300079
I missed the feat part, I stand corrected. Seems pretty good, provided they can make it there.

>>52300116
Getting them there I don't know; I'm not sure how they manage to to not die horribly to Storm Lances (or, for that matter, Idrians or Brigands) before they get there (at least, being run by Xerxis1).

Maybe they're your Amon drop; two charging fully-juiced Swordsmen wreck a Crusader on average dice.

>>52276155
With the amount of no knockdown in the game?

Really?

>>52299118
And Khador?

>>52301510
You know there's a whole release schedule right?

http://www.warmahordesreleaseschedule.com

>>52300199
>Getting them there I don't know

This is always the Skorne gambit.

I'd say you simply don't want to play this sort of list into a gunline. Drop it when you sense jack spam or manowars or the like.

File: Harkevich1_75.png (185KB, 409x611px) Image search: [Google]

185KB, 409x611px

I want to play Harkevich Broadside, but have it be casual enough for a new player to handle.

Does this look fine?

>>52303877
>no Kodiaks

File: Screenshot_2017-03-22-11-01-22.png (545KB, 1080x1920px) Image search: [Google]

545KB, 1080x1920px

Remember guys, it's just a common misconception that RAT 5. Old Witch 2 can just stand still really far forward and be a giant, unhideable target and then it's fine.

>>52303964
So you got told on CID forums and now come here to whine in anonymity? Sorry, but no pity from me.

>>52303964
>that RAT 5 is bad

Sake.

>>52303995
Not my whine. Just another of several posts that show PP staff have no idea how their game works.

>>52304009
if that is what you read in there, sure thing m80.

>>52303964
>>52304009
I really don't see that. Going solely from that post, I'd agree with the PP guy. Either you had a safe position to sit and aim, or if you needed to move away from a threat you still had a reinholdt to give you a reroll which would all but guarantee the important hit you needed to deal with the feral.

Sure RAT 5 is sad, but they can't change the game based on playtests by guys who forget rules, otherwise we'll continue to bitch at them like we've been doing.

>>52303964
CID is trash. I can't wait for the next wave of Old Witch nerfs, despite her already being utter shit.

>>52283328
Right...1000's of which just got cut by PP.
As well as cutting their communication channel (PG forums) and community support unless it's through a LGS.

I can't see this affecting the game negatively at all.

>>52303964
>my plan was to use my rng 10 rat 5 gun as a Mat fixer instead of my rng 15 focus 7 knockdown spell
>cry when PP calls me bad
>>52304126
>old Witch 2 is trash
>accuracy fixer, damage fixer, control effects, threat extender, reconstructing behemoth is bad

>>52304316
>accuracy fixer
Divination got worse, because Future Sight > rerolls and the Blind gun doesn't hit shit with RAT 5
>Damage Fixer
That is good. Having to be in 8" of your target or 13" without much camp is ass
>control effects
lolwat
>threat extender
2" standard. That's not great, it's the least I fucking expect
>Reconstruct
That is good

If Old Witch 2/3 still were like they were before the unncessary Feat nerf, I wouldn't complain. But they literally made almost everything usable terrible.

So? Where is the NQ 71 pdf?

>>52304316
>my plan was to use my rng 10 rat 5 gun as a Mat fixer instead of my rng 15 focus 7 knockdown spell.

So assuming he's feated he's choosing to cast a spell at 4 focus assuming he boosts to hit to be safe. He then probably needs to cast Boundless Charge at least once and fully load a jack so that 5 focus used. Since he chose Reinholt over Sylys and OW lost Great Power thats one for upkeep for Curse Of Shadow which was presumably cast on a target early on. So we're at 6 focus used. So that leaves 1 for allocating. So either OW2 has no camp and he kills one heavy for it or the jack fails to kill the target with its 4 attacks (likely) which is then fully healed the following turn (because in this case it was a Hordes heavy) and kills the jack. Good plan. This also means you've feated so you can't do all this to the caster later on when it is actually useful.

Alternativly, he could just spend one to boost to hit the shitty crow gun.

Or the crow gun could not be shit.

>>52304446
OW2 suffers from the same thing as OW1. She doesn't do anything other Khador casters already do better. Though I suspect she was designed mainly for Hordes and her inclusion in Khador is a gimmik to keep the Khador player from whining endlessly.

>>52304778
>to keep the Khador player from whining endlessly.
Seems that didn't work.

File: Vladimir1_Harkevich1_752017.png (403KB, 799x721px) Image search: [Google]

403KB, 799x721px

Have you folks thought about Steamroller 2017 yet?

We don't have all the information yet, but I'm trying really to figure out how to keep the Khador pairing viable.

- Vlad1 Theme is fine, I think. 3 units and 4 heavies should be balanced enough. Barring the obvious and incoming Rocketeer nerf, because fuck Khador right?

- Harkevich is tricky. I basically don't want to give up more than 1 jack from the old balance (he does nothing for infantry. Straight nothing) and putting Rocketeer squads in both lists seems awkward if the enemy brings anti-gunline tech.

So I thought about putting Alexia and her goons into the List, swapping 1 for 1 for the Marauder that was previously here. The plan would basically be to keep playing mk3 (against opponents with less less heavies than before) while Alexia starts to score the infantry zones with her shitty recurable grunts.

Thoughts?

>>52303621
>I'd say you simply don't want to play this sort of list into a gunline
You can always bring a Krea. I mean, getting the Swordsmen across the table is priority #1. Then a Willbreaker can hand them tough. And you can bring like, multiple units just incase. Like 3 units, all affected by feat. With a Bellows Crew and Krea around you should be fine. Maybe even bring some Karax so Swordsmen can clump around them for Girded.

>>52304675
Ya, but then you're not in a warbeast's threat range in case the plan goes south, so that focus cost is looking pretty good.

You guys are not giving her enough credit, she's an excellent caster. She's also a battle engine with sac pawn and wind storm if you run her in theme. The change to divination is MUCH better for her battlegroup on feat turn. Behemoth rerolling boosted attacks is pretty sweet. You can armchair general this one all you want, I've played her, and she's legit.

>>52304914
I played her as well. I was viciously underwhelmed.

File: IMG_0007.jpg (78KB, 831x1108px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 831x1108px

Can i get some genuine criticism on My Irusk?

Im extremely new to painting, and this is the first model i've painted where i tried every technique i've been attempting to learn and i think he's the first good looking model i've painted. Advice on where i still need improvement would be awesome.

File: IMG_0009.jpg (94KB, 794x1059px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 794x1059px

>>52305221
Another angle

>>52305221
>>52305250
Two easy steps for a massive improvement:

1) Add another thin layer to the red and gold/bronze.
2) Add a wash.

But it looks way better than my first model.

File: 16386925_1609974862352256_7983428585877801917_n[1].jpg_oh=db5fe1d57e7d51541640f20d1114cc77&oe=596EA707.jpg (81KB, 539x960px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 539x960px

>>52305250
Judging by the blotchiness of the paint on the flag, I think you need some much finer brushes. Take this dude I painted a bit back. Look at the small areas of lighter red highlight on his skirt. That's what decent brushes can do. I don't advocate expensive ones, I think mine was £7 from Army Painter. If you just use a base colour, wash over it, then use the same base colour as highlights, you can get a surprising amount of depths. Yours just kinda looks thick and blobby. Irusk's left pauldron for example could be so much better as just a basecoat, wash, and rebasecoating of the central areas.

>>52305304
I've got a few Washes, but when people say "add a wash" are there full mini washes that people use?


>>52305320
Actually i'm using Army painter detail and fine detail brushes! I think it's just poor technique when i'm covering large flat surfaces like that.

File: masters-brush-cleaner[1].jpg (174KB, 500x484px) Image search: [Google]

174KB, 500x484px

>>52305386
Then I recommend you get some of this stuff and focus on keeping your tip sharp at all times ;^)

Try and hold the model and your painting hand as close to your chest as possible. I practically push my wrists into my chest while painting just to restrict unwanted movement. It works like a charm but over any long period it can get painful. There's no art without suffering right?

>>52305386
>are there full mini washes that people use?
You can use a black wash for an entire model and have it look fine, but using a brown wash for flesh is generally optimal. The model in >>52305320 has a brown wash on the flesh, and a black wash on the skirt. All of the flesh was done with just a single pink colour, it's the wash that gives it all that depth. That model was pretty much me flexing how much I can do with very few paints.

>>52305386
You generally can't go wrong with a brown wash (like Strong Tone or whatever GW calls theirs nowadays) on red and bronze/gold. But the first step would be to achieve a fully-covering basecoat for each color with as little spill into other "regions" of the model as possible.

>>52301138
Yeah, that's why I said he's a strong *second* pairing, as he has some (relatively) bad matchups -- if "Kneel Before Zod" isn't a game-winner by itself, he's merely a solid attrition caster with a toolbox spell list.

There's also not *that* much anti-knockdown that's not an upkeep or animus, and the overlap between it and top-tier casters isn't all that great (outside of Protectorate, at least; Amon may be Kreoss1's worst matchup).

But yeah, he's really damn strong, he's just got too many bad pairings to be your main caster. So you run Amon/K1 or HR/K1 (or pick one of the other top-tier Protectorate casters except maybe K3 because they share the same weakness to non-upkeep-non-animus Steady).

>>52303964
The games with OW described in that picture sound really wacky.

>>52301138
Gimmick lists like Kreoss, Sorscha1, etc. can be easily countered, but when opp doesn't have a list to counter them they really destroy him.

>>52306043
>Gimmick lists like Kreoss, Sorscha1, etc. can be easily countered
You see Kreoss1 as a "gimmick" list? Even if you actually have access to universal knockdown immunity (which is rare), he's still got a great spell list. People stopped whining about purification because it became less common, but it is still incredibly ballbusting. Defender's Ward remains one of the game's best attrition spells, and the new Lamentation on a Focus 7 caster hurts a lot of lists, especially in hordes. If that's what a gimmick caster looks like, count me in.

File: IMG_7819.jpg (38KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 600x620px

Next CID is battle engines.

Who's ready for cries of "REEE PP STILL HATES CRYX?"
>bitching that wraith engine has no purpose
>bitching that they're forced to take it against shooting

>>52306814
The Wraith Engine is legitimately kind of shit, though. Sure, it's only 15 points, but it doesn't really do much and dies as soon as the opponent gets a clean shot at it.

>>52306814
It's going to be a fucking beast with the changes. It's already borderline-great.

>>52306854
I'd give the insider a read. Apparently all BE's are getting 30-38 boxes and new abilities to make them more useful to their respective factions.

File: yessssssss.gif (681KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

681KB, 800x800px

>>52301138
>playing Garryth
>fighting Kreoss1
>he completely forgets about the Heightened Reflexes until it's too late

E V E R Y TIME.

>>52307704
It's an upkeep spell.

Kreoss1 has Purification.

You can't git gud if you just play people who need to git gud more than you do.

>>52307704
>"This upkeep spell will keep me save"
>in the protectorate matchup

Are you fucking retarded?

Who got new artwork in the Legion command book? I know Saeryn and Rhyas were getting updated, but haven't seen the rest.

>>52308212
I mean if it's doing so consistently, I don't blame him. If your opponent gets too caught up in his plan to easily counter your easy counter to his plan, that's still a won for you.

>>52307162
I've said it once and I'll say it again. Skorne players are intentionally ignoring the Siege Animantarax despite it being quite good, just so that PP buffs it into the high heavens.

File: why_face.png (557KB, 670x675px) Image search: [Google]

557KB, 670x675px

>>52306814
Can't wait to see how they make the War Wagon even more bland.

>>52304126
I'm going to see what todays updates bring but currently it seems like they're treating it as a placebo for the community. We get to bitch and moan about rules in the Untested Theory forum and they just look at the Battle Reports and draw their own (weird and incorrect) conclusions.

>>52308948
>Skorne players are intentionally ignoring the Siege Animantarax despite it being quite good, just so that PP buffs it into the high heavens.
ConspiracyAnon! Where've you been lately? I've really been feeling like the rampant paranoia, victim complexes, and baseless speculation on this board has been downtrending lately... thank god you've returned so we can get things back on track.

>>52309513
>We get to bitch and moan about rules in the Untested Theory forum and they just look at the Battle Reports
Wait, so... your complaint is that the devs are putting more weight on the actual battle reports than on the wackiness going on in the Untested Theory forum? What did you expect? What would you do in that position? .. it literally says at the top of the page that it's untested theory.

We know they are reading it, because I've seen both Pagani and Soles responding directly to threads in there, but why would they put a lot of weight on it? If you've got an observation that you think is so important that the devs HAVE to pay attention to it, get some models on the table that will illustrate that interaction, see how it works in play, and post some battle reports. If the whatever-it-is is as big an issue as you think, it should become glaringly obvious in test games.

>>52309917
The thing is Untested Theory ISN'T untested. Generally people don't comment on a model without having experience with it.

The conversation that happens there is generally people expanding on their playtesting thoughts and discussing possible changes.

>>52306814
I'm excited to see what happens to the TEP, their baseline of "let's give it more health" was good already but I'm always down to get even better shit. Maybe they'll get really fucky and turn it into a focus battery, who knows.
I do, and I know that they're not gonna give me nice things, but still. it's nice to think about

>TEPs with 30+ boxes
>In Axis theme force

Kill me now...

>>52310159
Arguing that PP doesn't give CoC nice things when TEPs, Destruction Initiative, etc. exist strikes me as an unreasonable stance.

OW2/3 went up to RAT 6.

Guess I was right about RAT 5 being shit.

>>52310435
Conflict Chamber updated with the new CID changes.

Big one is Dread Rots down to FA 3 (from FA U).

>>52310413
oh cool, we got a battle wagon on release and a theme force that made us able to compete in mk3 properly.

we can't forget the bomb drop that was the Prime Conflux, either. Or the model we got after that, either. it'so strong, it's an auto-include in every one of my lists.

>>52307964
>>52308212
...Have you guys seriously never seen someone burn their stack, commit, and then realize they've forgotten something really important?

Almost nobody plays Clint Elfwood, and almost nobody cares to memorize his kit. I don't think he even had his No Knockdown upkeep in the last edition, and it's the kind of spell he's probably going to cast on turn 1 and then never refer to again until like turn 3-4.

I could see a lot of people making a mistake like this on their first game against him.

Legion of Everblight Command

http://www93.zippyshare.com/v/cJMBctzR/file.html

>>52310453
I feel as though using FA to stop people playing something is poor design. I mean, would anyone take more than one Bellows Crew if they could?

>>52310559
>Opponents cast a spell
"What does that do?"
>Opponent is forced to explain what the spell does
"Oh okay."

First game mistake is understandable, but Anon said that like it's happening every single time he's playing anyone fielding Kreoss1

>>52310454
This complaint would hold more water if three things were the case. If the nature of CoC as a Limited Realease faction had not been made exhaustively clear by this point, if CoC didn't have viable lists to be competitive, and if the percentage of models in CoC's range that are straight bad were higher than the percentage of straight bad models in other armies. These points are arguable to an extent but almost assuredly not the case. However, the assertion you made was that PP doesn't give CoC players nice things, full stop. That's categorically false.

>>52310016
>dumbest comment in this thread
You win the prize

>>52310591
Thanks m8

>>52308948
I just can't be assed to finish painting the damn thing.

File: stopstop.png (32KB, 301x79px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 301x79px

>>52310453
>Big one is Dread Rots down to FA 3 (from FA U).
Thank dog.

>>52310591

Praise be anon!
You have my gratitude, oh generous one!

>>52306243
Yeah, he's a gimmick because he can only win by killing caster.
Anything that buffs will destroy his army. Anything that controls will outmission him.

Kreoss1 is the kind of caster that makes me think that 10 points of specialists should be standard in every game.

>>52288525
Yes you can, as long as you can see the model you're throwing it at. For example only the barest sliver of a base is in your front arc. And then, if you miss the target, it can deviate to a point that puts the thrown model entirely in your back arc. A thrown model no longer contacts the throwing model's base.

File: Impaler plastic.gif (56KB, 325x353px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 325x353px

Why is the impaler so expensive when it doesn't really do much?
Why would I pay that much for a single shot non-aoe ranged warbeast?

>>52311664
Because it's durable and can beat stuff in melee.

>>52310724
point me to one well-listed place on the Privateer Press website, or even the forums, at which it is made exhaustively clear that CoC is a limited release faction. I'll wait. I'm not even salty about this because I'm not getting new models, I'm just salty that it's NOT.
CoC is competitive, sure, but it's not even placing above 10% attendance at events. As for the bad models in CoC vs. other factons, 1) there's less models so percentage-wise you're wrong and 2) none of the lists that have been brought to tournaments lately have taken infantry. Because CoC infantry, by and large, is in a shit place right now.

PP GAVE CoC nice things. On release. Since then we've got a subpar colossal and a theme list that brought us back into the spotlight, and literally nothing else. So no, it's not "categorically false," because if we're arguing percentages 100% of the physical things we've been given since release were unusable trash.

>>52311664
Because the battle-boxes have to be equal to their warcaster's battle-group points.

Ragnor has 30 warbeast points.

They didn't feel like increasing the cost of Bouncers or Axers, so they increased the cost of Impalers.

The Impaler will not go down in points unless Ragnor gets less warbeast points. Best case scenario, they improve the Impaler until it is actually worth 11 points.

>>52311801
>rivers of CoC tears

Everyone knows CoC is limited. If youre a new player, you're not going to to go all in on a faction without either talking to someone at a store or googling the army at some point

File: pip-74060[1].jpg (30KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 500x500px

>>52311703
Meanwhile across the Bloodstone Marshes...

So, if the Skorne invasion of Ios fails, then what will the next step be for them in trying to take over the West? Or will they just give up?

any news on the latest no quarter? Something about minions?

>>52312519
I wouldn't write of the possibility of Battlebox trash getting a point decrease.

The Titan Gladiator went up by a point despite being in the box, so maybe there is still hope for the Impaler and the Decimator.

File: 3830948567_d6579fd616_b.jpg (262KB, 1024x681px) Image search: [Google]

262KB, 1024x681px

>SPD. Increase the SPD of the Legends of Halaak to 7.
>MAT. Increase the MAT of the Legends of Halaak to 8.
>DEF. Increase the DEF of the Legends of Halaak to 14.
>CMD. Increase the CMD of the Legends of Halaak to 8.
>Melee Weapons. The melee weapons of the Legends of Halaak gain Weapon Master .
>Flank [another model in this unit]. Remove the Flank [another model in this unit] special rule from the Legends of Halaak.

autistic screeching

What you guys think of cain3? I think he could have been decent if he had normal warjack points. Like what the fuck, he's not even that great of a super solo to give him that little points even with the two solos he gets. Why don't other caster units and even battle engines get taxed for their gimmick?

>>52313256
>People cite the huge number of changes to Skorne, when shit like that took took 6 changes for a single unit
>And one of those changes was a nerf

>>52313278
Weaponmaster > Flank

Flank is fucking trash, because it forces you to huddle your three kill-solos together so they can be swiped out of existence by the heavy they charged.

File: old_witch_of_khador_by_spookalybits-darb3ac.jpg (217KB, 1024x599px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 1024x599px

>>52313264
>18

Friendly reminder to fuck off.

>>52313307
I never said flank was good. Only that one of Skorne's changes was a strict nerf in that flank was removed from a model.

I have a feeling anyone still playing this game suffers from immense stockholm syndrome

>>52313778
and yet here you are on the boards
couldnt get anyone to play guild ball with you?

Anyone got rules for extreme colossal wrestling yet? Want to know what they did to each model to make a one model game worth playing

>>52313778
I know the AoS generals are slow, but you need to stay there, you're not fit to interact with other people.

>>52313339
Oh word, she's 18? Fuck that blows.Meanwhile in Hal3y land.

File: 17458134_10210662091766664_7959813939260158120_n.jpg (647KB, 1708x968px) Image search: [Google]

647KB, 1708x968px

War room 2 update

>>52314118
Chiron in there? Or any casters?

>>52314118
Also Morty 2 has Arcantrik bolt, CoS, Fail Safe, Locomotion, and spellpiercer.

Hellslinger is where the money is at though he's got swift hunter and 3 shot types: crit grievous, ghost shot, and incendiary with reload (1) you would have to use souls to reload.
>>52314163
I pulled this info from the a Cryx page i follow

File: 17457848_10154283219416850_6818665151502099230_n.jpg (1MB, 1644x1948px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1644x1948px

>>52314176
Here we go someone posted her card

>>52312710
Not that guy but I got invested in the faction once I saw some pictures of them while looking up the game. I'd heard someone mention it during a 40k conversation and decided to check it out. By the time I found out from the guys at ny lgs that it was a limited release faction I had already fell in love with the lore and style of Convergence.

It was my gate into the Iron Kingdoms and I'm happy with that, but I think I'd have taken Convergence as purely a fluff/rpg thing over having a weird half faction thing. Especially since PP's definition of 'Limited Release' was never clearly stated anywhere.

>>52313341
If they swapped one ability for a better one that isn't a nerf, it's a buff no matter your definition. They didn't lose flank they swapped it.

File: 17458253_10154283222541850_6418412069054478317_n.jpg (565KB, 1668x944px) Image search: [Google]

565KB, 1668x944px

>>52314279
And the Phantom

>>52314326
Oh, so when Caine killed a guy to take his place in the unit, the corpse went straight to Cryx?

>>52314326
>>52314279
>>52314118
Check Khador - they should have Strakhov2

>>52314401
Not even sure if you're trollong or just haven't bothered to pay any attention to the lore for post timeskip caine.

>>52314279
That's a pretty legit spell list.

>>52314512
That's a pretty boring and mediocre spell list

>>52314401
>>52314428

I thought of the same thing. Checked to see if it was a character. Sorrysneezy.jpeg

>>52314279
Garbage for Cryx again

>>52314694
Tbh all the releases I've seen today have been pretty mediocre. Strahkov2 is probably the closest thing to good but he's still vastly outclassed by like every other caster in Khador

>>52312823
Skorne doesn't get mauler and krielstone buffs though.

>>52313778
I have a feeling you've said that in the last three threads.
I get that the more bait you throw the more bites you get, but after a while the fish get used to the chum.

>>52314772
Yeah I fucking wish. It's why I just windmill slam Rasheth into Trolls; I'm jelly of their animi.

File: fuck.jpg (11KB, 219x187px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 219x187px

>>52314543
>>52314694
>excellent ARM debuff with movement and assassination utility
>excellent warjack buff
>army-wide ability to ignore ARM/DEF buffs, circumvent Incorporeal, etc
>threat range multiplier
>Cryx players think this is bad

You fuckers are such spoiled children about everything.

>>52315072
It's not even that friendo, it's that her spell list is fairly generic and the feat pretty good. Like, I'm sure you can run a million stalkers with her and it will be kind of funny but I can't say it's overly competitive. She's not particularly unique and desu Lich3 does most of what she does better. Hell Morty1 does as well.

>>52315072
Don't forget MAT9/10 effective Weapon Master warjacks on feat turn, so long as you can space your models in a non-retarded fashion.

She's ridiculously focus efficient too.

>>52315167
>feat pretty good
>you can run a million stalkers with her
>Feat is Command range

>>52314694
Kill yourself, this is Karchev-tier.

>>52315204
Stalkers are probably why her feat is CMD. Meanwhile, in Khador-land, someone said Strakhov2 is bad. What an odd world we live in.

File: 1468848995035.jpg (99KB, 900x739px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 900x739px

It's been a while since I looked into Legion's fluff, but it looks like even in the new command book they're still sort of weird evil underdogs dicking around far away from the rest of the setting.

>>52315204
Oh wow, I missed that. That's kinda shitty.
>>52315237
He's not bad, but I kind of understand where they're coming from. He's just not up to snuff with a number of their other competitive casters. That being said Khador has been blessed with a roster of very competitive casters

>>52314694
Some people will complain about anything.

After everything we've seen this year, you're honestly going to look at a caster that can take a swarm of already-good-on-their-own light jacks and give them the capacity to kill heavies, and just dismiss it out of hand? I get that she's no Tuna, but Stalkers don't need nearly as much help as griffons, either.

Side note - are they just giving every faction a Spellpiercer caster now? Like, "it was a negative play experience when every faction could just purify away your upkeeps, so we're just going to have everybody outright ignore your upkeeps instead".

>>52311363
>Kreoss is a gimmick because he can only win by killing caster.
... except that's not actually true, unless the Kreoss player sucks. That's not to say he has no bad matchups, but he can beat a lot of armies on scenario just by virtue of being able to take all their toys away and make them play on PoM's terms... and PoM models are above average at attrition even before caster support is considered. Plus even if your caster is immune to knockdown or plays far enough back not to care, Kreoss can still usually just use the feat against your army to get ahead on models or control the tempo of the game.

>>52314326
Hmmm... I want to like this guy, and he's got some cool stuff, but..

Man, it just feels like he's going to have the EXACT same issue as the normal pistol wraiths. Kill something, get some souls, then get killed in response before he can spend those souls. The extra two points are probably justified, but the wraiths already felt overcosted for what they usually do.

>>52314543
>>52314694
>buhmuhbanes

>>52315072
They're hardwired to piss and moan because they can't figure out tactics other than "run models at enemy in straight line," or "throw my own dudes"

Fucks sake, Mortenebra2 looks like a solid, fun as hell jack caster.

>>52316241
She really does, but then you look at our jacks...

>>52316331
Inflictors and Collossals? Or ignore most of that and take Banes or Satyxis anyway, since both of those are getting themes and are effected by Spellpiercer?

Also of note, all of Legion's model run are in the Command book, which lends credence to the rumors that Legion isn't getting any theme forces or new models for the foreseeable future. Food for thought.

>>52316331
You mean our fast, cheap, high DEF, high MAT, high POW 'jacks?

If you can't get any use out of them you're simply a bad player.

>>52316716
>high DEF, high MAT
Average 8 mat and 13 def with piss poor grids

>>52316706

Was the Trollblood command book missing models? I know the Hordes factions are behinds the Warmachine ones in model count.

If that is true, at least Oracles is good and Ravens is alright. I have no idea what the fuck they were huffing when they made the Children of the Dragon though. Who ok'ed Unyielding as the theme benefit when half the current Nephilim don't want to be in melee at all?

>>52316683
>>52316716
Those jacks don't count. Nothing in Cryx counts unless it has the fucking word "bane" in front of it.

>>52317286

What are some good Cryx jacks to have?

I inherited my friend's army when he moved out of country, so right now I have the old metal battlebox and Deathjack.

>>52316971
When did 8 MAT become average? Back in my day, MAT 6 was considered decent, and 7 was great.

>highest DEF on heavy jacks in the game is average
I can't anymore. Someone else take this one.

>>52317375
Average across all of our jacks

>>52316971
>>52317375
Don't forget the piss poor damage grids that have 2 less boxes than Cygnar. Garbage.

>>52317366
Slayers and Inflictors are good, maybe a Leviathan, and most of the bonejacks are good.

>>52317000
I know the Cygnar command book lacks both Trenchers and Storm Knights, which are getting theme books. The Circle book is missing Tharn and the Protectorate Book is missing Knights Exemplar and Paladins. The Trollblood command book lacks Northkin. The Cryx book likely won't have Banes. All of the other Command Books lack models that are going to be supplied in theme books. Legion's entire model run is in theirs, which on the one hand is great because everything is in one spot but on the other hand means no new models or theme books for likely years.

>>52318150
>The Cryx book likely won't have Banes.

Banes are confirmed to be one of the command book themes, but they want to test it in CID first.

>>52316716
Boy you must be retarded. Cryx Jacks have average MAT in mk3. They have middle def. They aren't that cheap for what you're getting. And high POW is laughable. P+S 17 is the highest non character POW. The only one higher than that is a 23pt pile of trash character jack.

>>52318684
>Ignores fact that Cryx is debuff-centric.
>PS 17 is the upper limit

lol wut

>>52318684
>highest p+s on non character trollbloods is 16
Fuck you man

>>52319161
>debuff-centric
Almost everyone else get's higher baseline numbers with caster independent buffs available.

>PS 17 is the upper limit
P+S 19 is on the colossal but those don't really count. Where are these other magical PS 18 jacks?

>>52319228
With stone and rage in every list. Boo Hoo.

>>52319161
The importance being, debuffs are generally harder to effectively spread than buffs and that's why models that can function efficiently without them are important in Cryx

>>52319292
>This is what brain damage as a child looks like

>Cryx warjack theme does not grant free stuff for taking warjacks
Yeah, that's pretty shitty.

Anyone have some good quality scans of those command book covers? I think they're neat.

>>52314118
I'm surprised Kharybdis doesn't have more initials

>>52319872
That's a lot like Children of the Dragon, which seems to be a Blighted Nyss theme but grants bonuses for and for taking only Nephilim.

>>52315072
>>army-wide ability to ignore ARM/DEF buffs,

what

>>52322031
Spellpiercer affects every model/unit in the spellcasters control range.

>>52322062
But it doesn't let you ignore buffs.

>>52322092
Yes Rhupert, you are one very special snowflake.

>>52318684
>MAT 7
>Average

Cryx players are so delusional, it's not even funny.

Holy fuck guys, the Khador Heavy Metal theme looks scary as fuck.

Especially now that they finally got an actual Jack-support model.

>>52318684
DEF13 is high for a warjack.

The average Cryx warjack has three initials, two of them at high POW and with faction-wide access to abundant damage fixers.

Again, if you can't make these work, you such huge donkey dick at the game.

File: tE9CwH8.png (537KB, 599x400px) Image search: [Google]

537KB, 599x400px

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points

[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf

(Harkevich 1) Kommander Harkevich, The Iron Wolf [+28]
- Demolisher [16]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Kodiak [13]
- Kodiak [13]
- Kodiak [13]
- Marauder [10]
- Rager [11]
- War Dog [0]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]
Greylord Forge Seer [0]
Greylord Forge Seer [0]
Widowmaker Marksman [0]

>>52322806
These "billion free points" themes are starting to piss me off.

>>52322844
>Enemy warrior models, warjacks and warbeasts lose Advance Deployment.

Eat shit, Circle lol.

>>52322852
No that shit is actually cool. Having unique benefits that fit the restrictions the list places upon the player is what themes should be. Getting ~15p of free shit on top of that just because you spammed 10 of [x] is not.

>>52322844
You don't even play Skorne, fuck you.

>You have to spam infantry your faction has zero support for to get your bonuses!
>And the free solos you can bring are all dirt cheap and only situational in the first place!

>>52322912
Well what if I told you I did? Winds of Death is too niche for me, but I can already take a few guesses what our themes we're getting in like 2025 will look like. Not that they'll be bad or anything, quite the opposite.

What i want to play is a balanced army, with a few beasts, and a unit each of Venators, Praetoreans, Paingivers and/or Cataphracts. And with themes that means I'll be playing 10-20p down all the time. That's pretty damn annoying.

>>52323216
Points on the table != Points in the list. If you're forced to bring something you don't really want to bring or have a use for, then it's not really worth its points to you. Bring 60 points of Venators to get 3 free Willbreakers and I assure you, that blob of models is worth less than 72 points on the table because of how ineffective it is. The real issue is some themes let you just windmill slam free shit like the Menoth one that just made Amon better.

>>52323253
Yes, exactly. And free Willbreakers (+Marketh) are far from bad. Sure, it's not "Junior, Squire, Strangeways, kthxbai" but it's a serious advantage.

>>52323253
Yeah, there's some truth to that. The sweet spot is where the benefits of the theme are just enough to weigh up for taking what would otherwise be a sub-standard list.

I think a couple of the current ones hit that mark. Ghost Fleet and Sons of the Tempest spring to mind. Both of those would be crappy-but-fluffy lists normally, but the themes provide enough benefit to make them playable.

And then you get things like Storm Division, where it's just like, "oh, free bonus points for changing one model in the list I was already taking".

The thing that makes me crazy about it is that it would have made it both easier to balance AND more thematic if the lists were caster-restricted. I know they don't want single-caster themes anymore, but why is Storm Division playable with anybody? That's Stryker's thing, it should be limited to him and those he works closely with in the fluff (Siege, Nemo, etc). Plenty of similar examples all over the place.

>>52318150
>Legion's entire model run is in theirs, which on the one hand is great because everything is in one spot but on the other hand means no new models or theme books for likely years.
You think that's what it is? I was thinking it could be that, or it could be something like what they're doing with Retribution where Legion is getting a whole new thematic "block" of models dropped on them.

Actually... there's some sense there. Most of the new Ret models are either Nyss or somehow connected to Goreshade and the elven gods. There's obviously a lot of thematic connections between the two elven factions. Maybe there's some big story event coming down the pike that explains why Ret is suddenly getting all this Nyss stuff, and Legion will also be involved and go in a new direction.

>>52322806
Were the new Khador and Cryx books / themes posted up somewhere? Been keeping an eye out for them.

>>52318150
>The Circle book is missing Tharn
I've seen this pointed out a few places. The Circle book IS missing the Tharn models, true, but we already got a tharn theme list in the January "freebie" PDF (Devourer's Host). Is there really room for more than one Tharn Theme? Doesn't feel like it to me.

>>52323588
They're on War Room.

>>52322806
>aka finally I can take all my jacks from shelf
Needs 1 more Rager I think. 1 shield guard is easy to beat.

>>52323888
Ah gotcha, thanks Anon. Any other new stuff popping up?

Post a screencap if you get a chance!

>>52322844
You better get used to it. Seems like PP intended for those things to be the main competitive lists all along.

>>52323977
Strakhov2 and the Greylord Forgeseer and some shitty cryx stuff no one cares about.

The themes should be on Battle College as well by now.

>>52323988
Doesn't mean I have to like it.

>>52323970
You don't need a Shield Guard in the Kodiak Cloudwall list, the one in here is just for comfort. Two ragers are a waste, because they don't do anything in actual combat.

>>52319292
>Almost everyone else get's higher baseline numbers with caster independent buffs available.
No one gets caster-independent -2 arm out the ass though. All Cryx jacks pay stat tax for it like Menoth or Trolls.

>>52323568
>Maybe there's some big story event coming down the pike that explains why Ret is suddenly getting all this Nyss stuff

That's already happened.

Nyssor was brought to the Fane of Scyrah. The two gods woke up, did something big, and turned Goreshade into 4shade. Nyss are returning to Ios because their god is there.

Thagrosh's Legion are canonically doing shit on the northern border of Ios. No idea what Saeryn and Rhyas' Legion are up to.

File: Darius1_75.png (162KB, 409x539px) Image search: [Google]

162KB, 409x539px

Is this viable? I really want to try running double Colossal since I picked two up for cheap, but I don't know shit about Cygnar.

Is Stryker1 better? Two ARM 28 Stormwalls sound really terrifying.

>>52324279
Jakes needs a jack. Other than that, sure do it.

>>52324285
Whoops, that was supposed to be Alain Runewood (He's free even though he doesn't do anything, so hey)

>>52323568
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Since the prerelease insider for Mk3 it's been pretty clear no one at PP is actively playing Legion as their faction so it's design is being handled by whomever it was assigned too. This happens a lot at GW too where an army goes through a slump phase until someone within the company takes interest again.

>>52324398
I'm personally not finding them slumpy, but whatever.

Maybe it's because, while the army is overall less powerful, some of the warcasters I liked before but never used are far more viable now.

>>52324398
I actually think Fyanna and Azrael were pretty good release though. The battlebox caster was anus and a lot of the themes are retarded but I feel like I can say that about a number of factions.

>>52324511
Kryssa's okay.

She's a one trick pony, but her feat makes our beasts and swordsmen hit like trucks. POW19 Carniveans/POW20 Scytheans are no joke.

>>52324888
An addition to this:

I feel like everyone is comparing all our new warlocks and releases in general to MkII Saeryn. We need to stop that, we're never getting anything that broken again.

>>52324921
I would say more people compare the relative power of their releases to releases for other factions. In this case I think Legion's releases have been the worst in Hordes for MKIII outside of probably trolls.

>>52323515
What's weird is that at least one of them is caster restricted. The Ret theme doesn't allow Ossyan or Ghyrrshyld. Makes sense fluff-wise but weird it's the only one.

Can someone post Strakhov2, the Forgeseer and whatever else is there?

>>52316087
Except he's good enough to warrant taking a 1-point Soul Trapper to fuel him. He can kill a min Choir by himself if he's got two souls by shooting *past* the jacks they stand in front of.

>>52324187

>turned Goreshade into 4shade

Still want to see Ossyan's response to that. It likely will involve heavy drinking at the fact that Nyssor decided to bless the guy who tried to kill him rather than the guy who risked death trying to save him.

I just got the new NQ and it looks like Cygnar is geting a trencher warcaster and a dude wearing steam armor with a jet pack (might be Siege, its hammer looks alot like hi)

>>52325556
Check Battlecollege while you wait.

>>52325671
>looks like Cygnar is geting a... warcaster
Thank god. I almost thought Cygnar would remain stuck at it's current lack of models.

>>52325671
Cryx runes near steam armor guy:
FORTIFIER GUNNER TAKEN WOUNDED BORN ANEW IN BATTLE


Near trencher:
POWER BORN ON THE FIELD OF BATTLE
SKILL FORGED IN THE FIRES OF WAR

>>52322092
Someone doesn't understand what blessed does.

>>52325378
I dunno, Azrael is pretty great IMO.

Few things in the game have a gun with that kind of easily-buffed hitting power.

>>52325594
Not so sure about that.

Ossyan's goal was to restore House Vyre's honour and repent for the shit he was complicit in during Goreshade's reign. It seems as though Goreshade has been thoroughly changed for the better by this transformation and has the blessing of Scyrah. House Vyre seems pretty redeemed right about now.

It's Vyros who'll be pissed. He was pretty much gunning to be Narcissar by claiming all the glory of Nyssor's recovery. Then Goreshade, his old nemesis in politics and war, comes in and turns out to be the chosen champion of the gods.

>>52326022
correct

>>52326314
I don't think he's been changed for the better. The Rebirth short in NQ has Scyrah admitting that he could save her people but he needs the darkness from having been an Eldritch to do it. She gave him life back, she didn't erase his history.

>>52325727
Huh, so Battlecollege isn't dead anymore? Thankts, that's good to know, I guess being able to upload the real stats helped revitalize it