/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>52252619
Exarchs dispatch Ochemata back in time to brutally excise from existence whatever it is that let the cat out of the bag.

With the cat now firmly back in the bag, your regularly scheduled reality can continue.

Humans win because we have God on our side.

>>52252637
Doesn't mean the world can't take one hell of an ass-reaming before the monsters go bye-bye, though. Freshly woken Mummies can call down meteor strikes and make earthquakes. Hell, werewolves just need to throw up their claws and open the border gates between Flesh and Spirit and humanity will be drowning in hostile spirits.

>>52252619
>How bad do things get for humanity

It depends on whether humanity treats mages as monsters or their saviors/overlords.

>>52252666
Let's go with the most likely answer and say "monsters". Then what's your answer?

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So I'm playing a teenage Thyrsus girl who doesn't get into trouble. Have a bestie sleeper friend who is quite the rebel and she got knocked up by her deadbeat boyfriend. One day I find my friend lying on the floor bleeding. She wanted to keep the baby but the boyfriend didn't and beat her badly. She bled to death before I was able to get any decent healing spells in. However the unborn child was still barely alive. On an impulse I cast a spell to make by womb ready for pregnancy and used another spell to transfer the fetus in me. I am no carrying my friend and that asshole's daughter in me. How will I be able to hide this pregnancy from public? Here am I, still a virgin and already pregnant! I still live with my folks and I am an honor student. The bastard is still out there somewhere too.

>>52252619
This isn't Dresden Files/Night Watch mate. Exarchs/God Machine can slap humanity back into stone age if they want to and there is shit humans can do about it

>>52252655

God just undoes that even quicker than a blink of an eye. God takes a shit on all the monsters and makes them into merchandise to be sold at the nearest mall, their sentience forever entangled with the fluffy things.

>>52252637
>>52252655
>>52252685

I don't even know what you guys are discussing. oWoD and nWoD don't take place in the same universe.

>>52252681
Then explain answers from anons like >>52252685 - are they for real, or just damn deluded? Because everything I heard everywhere is that one of the biggest differences between OWoD and NWoD is that humanity went from being everybody's bitch to being capable of curbstomping the occult underground if it woke up.

>>52252676
Mages would still probably join up with the humans. So would the hunters.

>>52252695
This might be a shity bait thou

>>52252701
>>52252695

Oh, so you're talking nWoD? Ignore my God-posting then.

>>52252707
Hunters are humans. Why would mages join with the sleepers?

>>52252637
>>52252685
>>52252718
>God

Don't forget that Archmages are also potentially in the same league as Big G. The humans win this disgustingly easily.

>>52252727
Mages are also human, albeit altered.

>>52252701
Both Exarchs and God Machine are embeded into the nature of CofD world. It's like trying to punch out the planet or the universe. Only you can't even touch it

>>52252733
>>52252744

>Mages are humans and have humanity's best interest in mind

Ok.

>>52252619
Let's be honest, in nWoD normal humans are perfectly capable of learning paradox-free magic specially made to hunt monsters (Benedictions, etc.), grafting monster body parts to people to turn them into super soldiers without making them monsters and building techno-magical WMDs. Monsters are completely screwed, even mages.
Ind oWoD it's less clearly cut. Vampires are toast unless the antediluvians wake up, but non-technocrat mages may have a surge in power if the Consensus turns in their favor. I'd imagine the Technocracy would also initially side with them, but who knows.

>>52252745
If she actually exists, Gaia too would be heavily embedded. Not sure about the Principal.

>>52252676
>Let's go with the most likely answer and say "monsters".

The Pentacle joins with the Seers and demonstrate with extreme prejudice to the stupid monkeys that ignorance was truly bliss.

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So what Attainments would Uratha Wives Thyrsus Legacy have? What would be their 3rd ruling Arcana?

>>52252758
>even mages

This is literally impossible when you consider how Archmasters deploy their magic. The war never even happened, period. It just doesn't.

>>52252762
Oh yeah. Forgot about those two. Also True Fae are likely outside of humanitys range and as long as they exist so will changelings

>>52252758
>in nWoD normal humans are perfectly capable of learning paradox-free magic specially made to hunt monsters

The Harry Potter wannabes don't stand a chance against directed werewolf gifts and rites and vampire blood magic, no less the power of Awakened magic. If archmages decide to enter the fray, human resistance would best be described as laughable.

>>52252781
>True Fae

The Gentry aren't exactly embedded in anything other than their own personalized realities. The closest thing to that would be the Wyrd, which isn't actually an entity, more so a semi-living force of narrative.

>>52252619
>How bad do things get for humanity?

After the human resistance fails miserably, the last ragtag remnants of mortals will be ushered into camps. It will not be pretty.

>>52252796
Yes but I'm thinking more in a way of "How would you even fight those" and to beat them you would have to cut them off from earth so they starve themselves out

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>>52252678
>So I'm playing a teenage Thyrsus girl who doesn't get into trouble
I read that as "doesn't want no trouble".

You know, honestly, there have been times I've wondered what it'd be like to run a Vampire Hunter D inspired "post-apocalyptic World of Darkness"; a ChroD setting where the Masquerade came down, the monsters fought desperately to survive... and, to their surprise, found they won. Only problem is, they kind of fucked the world up in the process and now they've got to figure out what to do.

This thread is not making the idea less appealing.

>>52252816

Humans would only stand a small chance if the various supernaturals suffered from significant infighting or a major splat sided with mortals.

If the humans are smart, they will bargain with mages, the most powerful splat and those closest to baseline humans. Sadly, as a group, humans often choose very poorly...

>>52252776
>>52252795
>Archmasters
>Caring about anything but themselves
They'll gladly let the others burn since they can't be affected by the "puny mortals", right? That's the argument you people always bring up whenever you have to wank your favorite splats.

>>52252848

Archmasters care about their obsessions and projects. An apocalypse-level event could very well interfere with their omens, thus warranting their intervention lest they face a minor inconvenience.

>>52252873
That's the entire point of the Pax Arcanum.

>>52252846
>supernaturals suffered from significant infighting

You mean like arguments between vampires and mages on whether the human insects in the internment camps should be treated as food cattle or just work slaves and experimental subjects?

>>52252883

The outing of all the supernatural to humanity would either effectively nullify the Pax or, if the humanity is very lucky, result in a few archmages simply resetting the timeline/reality and purge the offending people and material.

In the CofD, humanity is generally not "lucky."

>>52252873
What if a group of archmages' pet project is destroying all monsters? Anyway, humanity will win, simply out of sheer numbers and VALKRYRIE's super-science becoming mainstream. Anyone who argues otherwise is a clearly deluded magefag/vampfag/whatever.

>>52252895
>arguments between vampires and mages on whether the human insects in the internment camps should be treated as food cattle or just work slaves and experimental subjects

Don't werewolves and other splats get a say on the disposition of the human vermin in the camps?

>>52252920
>What if a group of archmages' pet project is destroying all monsters?
Then the vast majority of the other Seekers annihilate them rather promptly. This is an explicit consequence / punishment of the Pax.

>Anyway, humanity will win
But they don't, sorry. They're up against gods here. Gaia is the actual planet, the God-Machine is the brain of the planet, Archmages bend existence to their will, and the Exarchs are the living fundamentals of reality.

This isn't up for discussion.

>>52252920
>Anyway, humanity will win, simply out of sheer numbers and VALKRYRIE

You mean the underfunded, PTSD sleepers of TFV controlled by vampires? LOL

Humanity's numbers can be culled with astonishing ease. Have you seen the capabilities of the Arcana at 5 dots, no less the Imperial Practices. A few plagues and atomic incidents, interspersed with some liberal mind control, zombie attacks and general Fate mayhem, and the remaining human refugees will almost beg to enter the camps...

>>52252927
>Wolves :Whelp back to pangea I guess
> Changelings: What did just happened?...OH SHIT HUNTSMEN
>Mummy: Back to sleep. See how it pans out in next 2000 years
>Angels/Demons: Just put them in cubicles. 2 meters high. 3 meters wide. With entrance pointing South-West

>>52252955
Humanity has their own gods and supernatural patrons who explicitly aren't from the main splats or support them in anyway. Are they considered monsters or not?

>>52252989
You are fucking retarded.

>>52252920
>VALKRYRIE

TFV actually has some idea of the capabilities of many supernaturals, and will know just how fucked humanity will be in any open confrontation.

They will be the first to accept their new (mage) overlords in a bid to prevent humanity's extinction or worse.

>>52253039

What happens if mages remain neutral or if some support the mortal resistance?

I don't even know why I come to these threads. All you people do is wank Mages even more than the devs do and pointlessly circlejerk dumb supremacy memes. It may have been fun once or twice, but it has been stale for months, maybe even years. Barely anyone talks about their games, almost no one asks for advice. You've driven everyone away with your childish bullshit.

>>52253050
Then the Pax Arcanum gets all clunky. Godlike beings are going to wage war on behalf of their associated splats. Archmages, Oracles, Exarchs and other ascendants fighting against various high rank spirits & ghosts, the God-Machine and countless Gentry, among others.

I would still bet on the Mage team, just because of how Imperial magic works. They overrate anything. It wouldn't be fun to be in the middle of it all, as Archmages don't fuck around.

>>52253070

If OPP released more good material, there would be more substantive discussions.

Instead, the very little we get is crap like ex-Amish bloggers who can defeat archmasters with a cell phone cameras.

>>52253070
>but it has been stale for months, maybe even years
Mage supremacy has been around since 1993

Also, you ever think that some of us actually like having theoretical discussions about the Mage setting? Don't blame the fans, blame our numbers.

>>52253087
That is like one section of Hurt Locker. Other than that book is alright. Liked it more than Secrets of the Covenants anyway

>>52253104
>Mage supremacy has been around since 1993

Kneel before Voormas!

>>52253104
How can you enjoy having the same discussions every damn thread, without new arguments? Wouldn't you rather talk about the cool things happening in your games or give advice to other players?

>>52253111
>Liked it more than Secrets of the Covenants anyway

The first Requiem 2e supplement, taking years to release, and it could best be described as crap. Such a waste.

Hopefully, A Thousand Years of Night will be significantly better, but I'm not optimistic.

>>52253137
Well I often get like one response or get completely ignored. People enjoy their stale memes

>>52253144
I would give them 3$ for the rules and toss the story section into garbage. Compare this to first edition clan books or covenant books. Just sad

>>52253144
It's going to terrible. Super elders are the thing I hate the most about Masquerade, and now we're getting a full supplement for them in Requiem.

>>52253169
They're not going to be the Archmage equivalent for Requiem.

>>52253169
>>52253206
>They're not going to be the Archmage equivalent for Requiem

From Rose's comments and spoilers, it seems ATYON will be all about flashbacks and ST advice.

I'm preparing for a Secrets of the Covenants-level disappointment.

>>52253158
>I would give them 3$ for the rules

The new rules even sucked. Despite the years in production, I don't believe a single one was ever playtested.

>>52253260
Some were meh but I admit I loled when I read "Oath of the hard motherfucker" because I always imagine this cultured, polite invictus elder saying

>Now young neonate! Upon your blood swear the oath.....OF THE HARD MOTHERFUCKER!

>>52252619

In the event of the global outing of the supernatural, I'm curious if DaveB thinks humans will treat mages as monsters or potential allies and/or whether mages will choose to back the humans in the inevitable conflict?

>>52253303
>Oath of the hard motherfucker

I find ghetto vampires so uncouth.

>>52253242
This does kinda suck. Outside of rules I look for plot ideas but If this book is going to be filled with shity stories I'd rather buy more Night Watch books or something

>>52253321
There is also Fuckin Thief merit in carthian section.

>>52253343

Carthians are uncouth by nature, but I expect more from the Invictus.

>>52253368
Well I do have Invictus NPC who was a street thug before the WWII and carried his mannerism into the unlife. This does peeve a lot of other members but they can't question his skills and loyalty. On official occasions seneschal is always within earshot of him to smooth out his blunders

>>52253311
Don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to.

What level of Forces would be required to upgrade Forces Mage Armor to also act as ballistic armor of the same level? Similarly, what Practice would be required to create a "shield" to downgrade lethal attacks to bashing?

>>52253424
Nobody answer this.

>>52253311
>>52253413

The question is probably to cross-over-y for Dave to want to respond.

>>52253430
>Nobody answer this

Why? It's a basic spellcasting rule question, and it doesn't involve mega-level mage abilities.

>>52253435
DaveB is the best though. Perhaps if we sacrifice thirteen virgin Komodo dragons he will appear before us.

>>52253424
>what Practice would be required to create a "shield" to downgrade lethal attacks to bashing?

Since full Shielding requires 2 dots, I would say such an effect would be a 1 dot Compelling spell.

>>52253474
>if we sacrifice thirteen virgin Komodo dragons

No, such an act would incur his wrath, and it would be terrible indeed!

I believe the old "say his name three times before a mirror" worked in the past, but Dave is a truly fickle god.

>>52253424
I'd say it's Forces 2. One level of lethal downgraded to bashing per dot of Potency.

>>52253634

Forces 2 Shielding can render a mage immune to all kinetic or other energy damage. It would seem something as simple as downgrading attacks would require a lesser Practice.

>>52252733
>implying mages would side with humans
>implying the humans wouldn't be lynch mobbing every caster in sight

>>52252619

Is Quiescence still in effect?

The Pure collectively go 'told you so'.

>>52252842
That sounds pretty boss actually. A vast wasteland with monsters ruling openly- but having to deal with horrible devastation and a lack of usable resources.

Vampiric enclaves, offering mortals protection in return for blood

Werewolf patrols desperately struggling to keep the spirit world from going full shit

Mages acting as independent agents, what little organization they had dead along with the need for secrecy.

Mummy cults preserving settlements via fear of the awakening of their master

Changelings are still fucked though. Especially the ones kidnapped before the End- they're gonna be really fucking surprised.

>>52253137
Nobody tells stories about their gaming experiences. And any questions that get asked get one answer at max, and are lucky to get that.

/wodtg/ is worthless. I don't know why I come here.

>>52253403
Tell us more. He sounds interesting.

>>52253798
Crawl back to the OPP forums, you degenerate!

>>52253833
Yeah, because actually talking about playing in a WoD game or helping people with questions is against /wodtg/ standards.

>>52253812
So guy was a thug in pre-war Warsaw. Mostly running protection and simple robbery he was actually motivated by getting money to pay for medication and treatment of his ill wife. But than war came and he had to switch to something else. So he figured I'll smuggle Jews out of ghetto, safe house them then move out of the city for money.

All went well until one family he placed in a safehouse was sold out to the germans by some asshole. Than ghetto upraising came. Our hero growing desperate decided to at least salvage some stuff from emptied buildings. And there is where he found the guy that ruined his last run and caused him the loss of source of income. Not thinking much about this he decided to exact his revenge and this is where
>Forgive my curiosity my good man but why are you drowning my servant in a puddle? Also I think he already choked on the mud

Just had my first session with Mage. Mages are really the most powerful splat, but all this power goes right up to head, and they fuck up themselves with Paradox pretty quickly. Then Time mage fucks up "rewind time" spell...

>>52254180
>Forgive my curiosity my good man but why are you drowning my servant in a puddle? Also I think he already choked on the mud

Go on...

>>52255697
So during the war all vamps who could(and every other supernatural) moved to the countryside or at least out of town. Invictus seneschal was the one keeping tabs on what is going on. And then when he is supposed to met his informant he finds this guy beating the shit out of said informant. Long story short our hero gets hired to replace guy he just killed and few years later gets embraced. After that he begged out embrace for his wife as well. Long story short some 50 years later they are both still leaving in a nice small house in a middle class district, own two Yorkshire terriers and he breaks bones for invictus while she keeps their neighborhood nice and tidy.

During the course of campaign he got cought by Cheiron group while protecting one of my players investigating something and got badly fucked up due to their experiments. In and offscreen event he got pulled out off trouble by prince himself as
>On today's news: Pharma Industries facility that were recently bought out by international Cheiron Group were burned to the ground due to what was reported as lab accident. Out of 40 or so people that were inside only survivor is Mr. Derleth - member of Cheirons Directors Board that was just visiting new facility.

>>52256044
>Invictus Vampire
>our hero

Pick one.

>>52256112
Hero in terms of being protagonist of the story?

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>>52252775
>Uratha Wives Thyrsus Legacy

Apocalypse talk:

Why are the Garou so dumb? Why can't they realize the Weaver is the true enemy, and not the Wyrm?

Also,

Gaia > Triat or Triat > Gaia?

Why isn't there a strength table for lifting/pushing/pulling objects in 2e core? Hurt Locker has merits for increasing the amount of weight you can move but it doesn't give me a weigh of ball parking how much people can move in the first place.

On Mage 2e, can Prime be used to defend against mental control or attack, and id so, how?

Hunter 2e, any advice for runninf non-traditional monsters? Want to run an east asian invasion story, with gods and chinese demons.

>>52257314
Prime spells often times trade depth for breadth. A specific arcana is usually better at protecting you from effects under it's purview.

More specifically you can use Prime to increase your withstand trait against mental domination/anything else and Prime armor will protect you from all magical damage like a Mind unraveling spell but not an affect like Mind control.

It's better to be proactive and counter spell hostile magical effects.

>>52257475

I'm trying to think of a creative way to use Prime to counter a vampire's use of Domination or Majesty?

>>52253311
>In the event of the global outing of the supernatural, I'm curious if DaveB thinks humans will treat mages as monsters or potential allies and/or whether mages will choose to back the humans in the inevitable conflict?

Dave claims he often posts here without his tripcode. He may have already answered your questions.

Assuming the Quiescence is no longer a factor, my best guess is that Dave would believe mages would be viewed as monsters, but close enough to "pure" humans, and with enough redeeming (and very powerful) qualities and abilities to warrant a cold alliance of convenience. I would also guess that most mages, even the Seers, would side with the humans. For the Seers, they and their Exarch masters don't want to rule a pile of post-apocalyptic rubble, and the Pentacle is just generally more optimistic about the human condition. However backstabbing by ostensible human allies would be SEVERELY punished.

>>52257706
>Dave claims he often posts here without his tripcode

Dave is a sneaky bastard.

I'm going to play VtM soon, what are the most broken merits, disciplines and stats?

>>52257580
>creative way to use Prime to counter a vampire's use of Domination or Majesty?

Couldn't a mage use a Prime Shielding spell to force a clash of wills or dice penalty to any hostile supernatural powers, even if they aren't supernal?

>>52257346
It really depends on the specifics of the monsters. Dread Powers cover quite a lot of ground.

>>52257580
Why prime specifically? If it's because you're an Obrimos you already have several ways of fucking over vampires.

The dominate discipline first requires eye contact to work. Invisibility is a good counter tactic.

Similarly with Majesty any splat with an aura effect can try and use it to resist the compulsion. Although causing a nimbus flair in a crowded room is probably an act of mass terror.

>>52257725
Speaking ill of our based komodo dragon lord and savior.

Heretic.

>>52258078

Yes, the character is an Obrimos, and while incinerating vampires is certainly an option, it's not always the best first response.

More specifically, I cannot discern from the rules explanations whether Prime Shielding can only protect against supernal magical effects or, with the right spell, the supernatural powers of other splats and beings.

We should have two separated threads, this one and a /mtag/ & /MtW/ thread

>>52256816
>Why isn't there a strength table for lifting/pushing/pulling objects in 2e core? Hurt Locker has merits for increasing the amount of weight you can move but it doesn't give me a weigh of ball parking how much people can move in the first place.
It doesn't?

Jesus christ 2e get your shit together.

Why do people always underestimate Changeling power levels when comparing across splats?

>>52255201
Sounds great. What was the Paradox for that spell?

>>52258576
>What was the Paradox for that spell?

It might not have been much at all if the mage was very proficient in Time, using a rote or if the paradox was mitigated with a dedicated tool and/or mana. Remember that in 2e paradox no longer a matter of how "vulgar" a spell, but rather how far a mage pushes beyond his limits.

>>52258519
>Why do people always underestimate Changeling power levels when comparing across splats?

Do they really underestimate them, or is it a simple acknowledgment that in most competitive scenarios, changelings generally are at a big disadvantage to the Big 3 and others like mummies and Demons. Without the open-ended pledge-crafting in 2e, the power disparity will likely worsen. Lastly, except for Demons, other splats don't have the ever present problem of continuously hunted by more powerful adversaries.

>>52252619
It would depend if the very high tier entities intervened, but if not, then i think Humanity could win.

>>52259499
I'm not asking if humans could *win*, I'm asking how much monsters could fuck the world over before they *lost*.

For example, how much carnage would there be fighting against werewolves, who, amongst other things, can teleport by jumping between the flesh and spirit worlds, have all manner of gifts, can call spirits to ally with themselves, and who're pretty damn nasty in the sense of "turn into an insanity-inspiring murder machine in the middle of a mall or a night club, then skedaddle off through the Shadow".

>>52252678
This plot is insane and I love it

Some tips. 1)Practice veiling target Fetus. Hidden pregers. 2)Use the Fetus as a sympathetic connection to the father.

>>52252678
>Find infertile couple desperately trying to have a child
>Cast the same spell again with new mother as the target

>>52252775
You wouldn't get one, it would have to be a life spirit legacy.

>>52256816
>>52258512

Because that's almost certainly the end result of having a 2e that was supposed to use a 1e core and a rules update, then could actually be a 2e and needed a corebook, but the corebook can't be too important because most splat cores will have the same rules anyways. Shit gets forgotten.

Anyways, there's no reason to believe that the 1e Feats of Strength is changed in any way, so I use that when running 2e.

>>52258854
Sure, it just sounded like there was some crazy story behind it.

>>52260613
Sure, but it's still bullshit it's not in the book I paid for.

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>>52256816
>table for lifting/pushing/pulling objects

>>52257862
>Couldn't a mage use a Prime Shielding spell to force a clash of wills or dice penalty to any hostile supernatural powers, even if they aren't supernal?

I don't see why not. Prime Armor works against non-supernal magic, so I assume Prime Shielding would as well.

Given the other Shielding examples, it would probably provoke a Clash of Wills against supernatural powers.

However, such a spell would be really powerful, as the other Arcana only protect against their purviews, while Prime would work against most everything (e.g., gifts, disciplines, contracts, etc.).

An average Obrimos could cast Prime 2 "Shield Against the Supernatural" and a Forces 2 "Shield Against Kinetic Energy," and be effectively untouchable.

What's your favorite application of Forces?
I like Control Gravity (Forces 2).
So many applications, including making your enemies the focal point of a gravity well.
Nothing said dead werewolf like 3+ cars falling on him.

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>>52253504
>I believe the old "say his name three times before a mirror" worked in the past

Here goes nothing...

Dave Brookshaw

Dave Brookshaw

Dave Brookshaw

>In the event of the global outing of the supernatural, I'm curious if DaveB thinks humans will treat mages as monsters or potential allies and/or whether mages will choose to back the humans in the inevitable conflict?

>>52261654
>I like Control Gravity (Forces 2).

Now you know why gravity was one of those old Mage 1e Arcana speed bumps.

Gravity control is often of the "I Win" powers, particularly since most supernaturals in the CofD cannot fly.

>>52261678
You're tampering with forces beyond that which you can understand, Anon.

>>52261850

Summoning DaveB, what could go wrong...

>>52253435
>>52261678

I think, absent Quiescence, that most people will see mages as cosmically-overprivileged narcissists who don't live anything like normal lives but have the power to do whatever they want. But still *human* with it.

Judging by world politics, the Seers of the Throne would achieve their vision of open global slavery in two days flat.

And that's without the Exarchs assuming direct control once there's nothing stopping them from dropping Ochemata everywhere.

TLDR - no Awakening "masquerade," everyone's fucked forever. Join the Seers.

This is something I've put some time into thinking about, right? Cause my last house chronicle - Soul Cage - ended with a "years later" flashforward to the Abyss closing. My current chronicle's overplot concerns an archmaster refugee from that future coming back to try desperately to avert it, because boy does it turn out to suck for anyone without a Prelacy.

>>52261654
>What's your favorite application of Forces?

I like the entire Forces 2 Shielding Practice. It's been discussed a lot recently here on /wodg/.

It's hard to beat near total immunity to kinetic, heat and other forces-type damage.

>>52261727

If they wanted to do anything as silly as "win" in a crossover, they should bloody well learn to fly.

Mage Supremacy!

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>>52261941
>>52261993

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>>52262016

>>52262016
>>52262072

I accept these offerings, and depart.

>>52261941
>TLDR - no Awakening "masquerade," everyone's fucked forever. Join the Seers

Well, I, for one, will welcome our Exarch overlords

BTW, what about all the other supernaturals in this masquerade-less new world scenario? Are they just minor footnotes as mages quickly achieve dominion over the human insects?

>>52262072
This one is truly majestic

>>52261621
IDK it seems too good for a shielding spell from one Arcana eclipsing everything else. I'd personally make it work against wholly supernatural attack but not necessarily non damaging effects.

That way an obrimos would still be strong with prime 2 forces 2 making them immune to mundane or magical attacks like shotguns or weaponized singularities. But they still could be put to sleep/teleported/flung into the shadow thereby incentivizing them to expand their arcana instead of resting on their laurels.

So... query; if the Big Powers of the supernatural world means a full-fledged humanity curbstomping if they're aroused to actually do shit, what would happen to the various hunter compacts & conspiracies if they clued in on this?

I mean, the Exarches are basically "God is real, and you are Their toys, and if you won't play nicely, They will break you". What would the Long Night or Malleus Malleficarium actually do upon finding very real proof that uber-witch gods really do control everything that they think of as "the world"?

>>52261993
>If they wanted to do anything as silly as "win" in a crossover, they should bloody well learn to fly.

>Gravitic Supremacy!

>>52262092
All hail the Komodo King.

>>52262210

Shielding specifically is meant to work against far more that just direct damaging effects. What you suggest is basically already accomplished by Prime Mage Armor, and would render the Prime Shielding Practice as redundant.

>>52262212
>What would the Long Night or Malleus Malleficarium actually do upon finding very real proof that uber-witch gods really do control everything that they think of as "the world"?

They would pray, a lot. Some might commit suicide.

Most would also do everything in their power to prevent those morons in Network Zero or anyone else from basically beginning the Biblical Apocalypse.

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So would pic related be a good interpretation of the Technocracy and their different philosophies? End Game tech like Temporal Armor or Probability Sheaths sound a lot like hypertech, and their end goal is even Ascension.

>>52261993
>Forces gravity control
>If they wanted to do anything as silly as "win" in a crossover, they should bloody well learn to fly.

Preach it!

>>52262420
It'd work. Remove the religious nut and militaryfag though.

Morgon is a quintessential Syndicate member.

Dedre would be Progenitors.

Lal and Yang are definitely NWO.

Zacharov would work as either an ItX or Progenitor.

Funny thing is is that most of the societies in Alpha Centuari are structured as technocracies and most of the leaders are scientists of some sort, no matter which political doctrine you go with.

>>52261678

So, the mirror trick works.

Good to know.

>>52262516
>So, the mirror trick works.
>Good to know.

It works... for now.

Summoning Dave too often for our petty desire to confirm Mage supremacy might make him forsake us as unworthy, and his wrath could be terrible indeed.

>>52262234
>All hail the Komodo King

What would be the benefits of the Prelacy of the Komodo King?

>>52262567
His very presence risks the Pax Arcanum.
We must cherish every crumb that falls from his table.

>>52262587
Perhaps when the the Komodicon becomes a Greater Ministry, the Dave will bestow upon his followers his Crown Attainment.

But that time has not yet come.

>>52262281
Hmm, perhaps make it cost mana for every supernatural effect it stops? Technically you're auto-succeding with a persistent counter spell.

>>52262587
Dave is closer to a forgotten Oracle than an Exarch imo.

>>52262612
How about "When attacked by a non-Mage supernatural, the Seer may decrease their power stat (Blood Potency, Wyrd, etc) by her Prime dots for the reaminder of the scene, if this decreases it to 0 then the entity loses all Supernatural abilities for the remainder of the Scene".

>>52262652
You joke but that's not too far off from an actual Crown attainment for The General.

>>52262612
>Technically you're auto-succeding with a persistent counter spell.

If patterned on the other more esoteric Shielding spells, the effect would still require a Clash of Wills and subsequent all-or-nothing effect. A younger mage against an experienced opponent is not assured to win such a CoW.

>>52262667
That's kinda what I based it on.

>>52262667
Shame it doesn't work with Fate, because I can also see the Ruin doing that.

>>52262652

Are you addressing the Prime Shielding discussion or the Komodo Prelacy?

>>52262652
Make it based on Gnosis and it would make a great crown attainment for the new prelacy of the Komodo exarch of supremacy and lawnchairs.

What's the good and the bad of Mage the Ascension and Mage the Awekening? I've never read any of them. I'm a fan of WoD, but I have the CofD one.

I'm tired of D&D, so I was thinking of playing World of Darkness, Vampire games always end up being shit, so I want to give mage a chance.

>>52262728

Ministry of the Komodo

Oppression of humanity by making them follow detailed rules that don't always make sense and people cannot fully understand

>>52261993
>If they wanted to do anything as silly as "win" in a crossover, they should bloody well learn to fly.

My Obrimos suddenly recovered from his unfortunate bout of Acanthus-envy.

>>52262759
Oppression of humanity and creation of vampire based lawn furniture.

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I hope you're around Dark Archon, because I just want to say you're a complete fucking retard and have horrible fucking taste. Your alternate Wisdom rules are the stupidest shit I've ever read, and I would tell you this to your face, but for the risk of getting banned from the OPP forums, where I can actually get constructive commentary on my homemade stuff, and questions answered without rampant shitposting.

The reason Wisdom is closer to a karma meter is because that's what's needed to reinforce the Hubris element of the game.

If you make a Mage's Wisdom mostly subjective, where they can maintain high Wisdom through following their own warped, fucked up philosophy, then you lose a primary element of the system.

Where your morality is subjective, Hubris becomes optional.

You even acknowledge that your system accomodates Scelesti and Seers who can perform their horrifying duties, but still maintain a high Wisdom rating. That's fucking retarded. Didn't you fucking think for a second that their inability to maintain high Wisdom might be by design?

If you want protection from Wisdom loss, Inure your spell, Join the Guardians, or take it like a man.
Don't try and undermine a key fucking aspect of the game for your own subjectivist morality bullshit.

I mean christ, I'd love for my Thearch characters to be able to ignore Wisdom as a laudable goal, as is their philosophy.
But that's a key fucking weakness of their entire order, and emblematic of their Hubris.
Taking that away is mind-bogglingly retarded.

>>52262797
Every Mage is a WMD from char-gen there's no real sense being envious of other paths since it's relatively simple learning other arcana compared to say discipline/gifts/contracts.

>>52262815

Dark Archon is unhappy with everything and just argumentative.

He's one of those people who should just play a totally different game, although there probably isn't a ttrpg in existence that he actually likes.

>>52262852

While basically true, Time and Fate are really badass in Mage 2e, and having them as Ruling Arcana is impressive.

Control of gravity is a but small salve to help balance Forces against the powerhouses of Time and Fate.

>>52262815
How much does Order effect acts of Hubris? Surely an Arrow killing a dangerous banisher with magic isn't the same as an ambitious Silver Ladder assassination a political rival.

>>52262889

Remember, for purposes of Wisdom, premeditated murder is not as bad as manslaughter.

Read Dave's short story, Premeditation, in the Beast Fiction Anthology. It's both a fun mage, beast and changing breed crossover tale, but also addresses the topic.

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>>52253242
Well, that's fucking disappointing.

>desire to complete Vampire Heartbreaker intensifies

>>52262889
Order doesn't affect it at all.
It's the circumstances that determine it.
The who, what, when, where, why, how?

Depending on when you killed the banisher, what he was planning, how you killed him, and why, that would determine what kind of Act of Hubris it is.

Killing him as soon as he was labelled a Banisher, without knowing any of his plans, with full intent to kill him without attempting capture? Pretty bad.
Killing him in self-defence when attempting to subdue him for capture, when he was planning the murder of other Mages, and you were left with no reasonable alternative given the potential of your own death, and after attempting alternatives? Pretty fucking tame.

But the pre-meditated murder of a political rival for personal gain?
That's pretty fucking heinous.

>>52257773
Make a Caitiff.
Get Celerity 5, Potence 5 and Obtenebration 3.
Drop tentacles. Use Celerity for 5 actions using melee attacks.
Ginsu everybody.

>>52262945
In what way? The elder vampire/low generation thing killed Masquerade for me. The game was becoming less about being a monster and instead turning into a blood based episode of dragon ball z with the ravnos fiasco in bangladesh.

>>52262946

That's actually entirely wrong.

Wisdom is about control of one's magic, not morality.

Murder is bad. However, for purposed of Wisdom, premeditated murder is generally not as bad as lashing out with magic, even for a purported good cause or in self-defense. (See, Mage, p.88)

>>52263022
I just feel like everything OPP has put out recently has been shit. I like Elders conceptually though and, without the Fog of Eternity and such in 2e, there's room for some stuff about them expanded. That said, I have zero hope for it at all. I don't want a SotC-like shitshow again that's all 'in character writing'. Give me an informative book like the Covenant books for fuck's sake.

>>52262927
>Read Dave's short story, Premeditation, in the Beast Fiction Anthology.

Premeditation is a lot of fun. It should have been in the Mage anthology, and Hal should definitely be a Mage signature character.

I'm hoping Hal makes an appearance in Signs of Sorcery.

>>52263090
>premeditated murder is generally not as bad as lashing out with magic, even for a purported good cause or in self-defense
I don't think so.
I find it hard to equate "for a purported good cause or in self-defence" as being "in a fit of rage"

Falling Wisdom is only breached by the darkest, self-destructive acts.

What they mean is that while setting out to kill someone is pretty fucking bad. You know what you're doing.
When you go fucking crazy and throw a gigantic fucking fireball at someone you're wilfully letting yourself go to hatred and acting in accordance with that, so if you miss and wipe out a civilian, the fact that their death was unintentional is irrelevant.

>>52263120

I believe ATYON will be more a storytelling advice book than a fiction chronicle like SotC or anything with a lot of crunch. However, I'm sure there'll be some nifty elder powers, it just will not be Imperial Mystery-level abilities.

Anybody want to talk character concepts?

One I came up with recently was a stoner thyrsus. Not like "DUDE WEED LMAO" but just a really chill guy that smokes pot and prefers dealing with the local spirit scene to navigating Consilium politics. I want to make him more relaxed to counter the usually very paranoid characters I make.

Focus would be mostly on Life and Spirit, of course, with Life being mainly used for shapeshifting and growing magic weed.

>>52263160

Search and read through Dave's numerous comments about Wisdom, including the story entitled "Premeditation."

>>52263177
Which is fine, There's enough interesting stuff in Requiem that, despite running elder-based Masquerade games before, I could see some neat ST advice and storytelling tidbits for Requiem Elders.

As far as powers, I don't want Imperial Mysteries. But some neat stuff that makes older vampires scary, but that's also thematic. Elder Powers in Masquerade were all over the place.

If we end up with another fiction book though, I feel like I'll be done.

>>52263194
That's... Incredibly mundane.

>>52263194

Remember that mages, even before their Awakening, are generally driven and obsessive people.

Stoner using magic for great weed doesn't seem to fit the archetype.

>>52263194

Making some dank ass cannabis isn't that hard, it would be a very casual thing for any Life mage.

Is Kindred the Embrace worth watching?

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>>52263500

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Combat or politics?

>>52263500
It's entertaining. But don't go into it looking at it to emulate VtM exactly. It makes liberal changes to make it work, but that doesn't make it any less entertaining. If you go into comparing one for one (or screaming about how fishmalks and tremere aren't in it) you won't see it for what it is: an attempt to mainstream the vampire genre before it got super-popular and oversaturated.

>>52263262
I'm aware.

I also don't really care about fitting the archetype.

>>52263500
>Is Kindred the Embrace worth watching?

If your expectations are limited to an Aaron Spelling near-comedy, then you'll enjoy it. Don't expect any gothic horror or that the show will fully follow Masquerade.

>>52263698

What drove the stoner to actually Awaken?

Please don't say grow better weed.

>>52263724
That's funny enough that I'd make him a joke character in a chronicle.

Imagine being the head of a proximi bloodline dedicating your life to the study of magic but still being a second class citizen in awakened society and seeing stoner Thyrsus show up to a councilia meeting.

>>52261546
This makes me want to make a swole vampire character who plans routines with sets of coffin and refrigerator lifts

>>52263574
Your vamps can only do one political action per turn each so you need to make them count more. You also need a reliable method of ensuring that your political actions get through either with vote dominance or stealth or both.

Combat/block can be more reliable but you need to have a good sense of which actions you want to deny and which minions you want to rush.

>>52263724
The idea I was working with was to actually have it involve drugs. He would take them to experience good trips, but also because he wanted to know if all the stories about some drugs helping you reach higher planes of enlightenment are true or not. He felt (and wanted to believe) that there was more to the world, something hiding behind the illusion of everyday life and mundane things.

In this context, he's right, and that something is spirits and the Shadow. Hence the Awakening as a thyrsus, and his preference in dealing with them.

I'm not really going for obsessive with him, but he's not just some stoner guy who had a weird trip and can do magic now.

>>52263894
Yup, can imagine that sufficient supply of Bewitching Oration & titles, titles everywhere is a must for any political shenanigans. But even with the requirements in mind you're getting the reach across the table that your regular blocking will never have, and that's worth something.

>>52263801
>swole vampire

Remember that a vampire's strength has nothing to do with his or her physique.

The character can look like a 12 year old girl, but still be a 400 year old elder with Strength 5 and Vigor 5.

>>52263899
>I'm not really going for obsessive with him
Then you're doing it wrong

>>52264063
How is it wrong, exactly? You don't have to adhere to everything in the books 100%. They even straight-up tell you to chuck shit you don't like out the window.

>>52264138
You don't Awaken by being a chill stoner who had a kind of general feeling that there's more out there.

>>52264170
Nobody actually knows the hows and whys of Awakenings. All they have are general patterns that help you spot one in progress.

Either way, you still haven't told me how I'm wrong for supposedly not following the books exactly, even though they tell you that you don't have to and that you can do what you like.

So...how 'bout them werewolves?

A great Dreamspeaker Shaman has just died.

What amusing tricks did he set up to suprise mourners at the wake and funeral?

>>52263997
Cross-table reach is nice but the real strength in vote decks IMO is that you can't bounce a vote bleed like KRC.

Also titles -> high cap, so you'll need to include some kind of crypt acceleration so you don't get ousted too quickly.

Combat gives you more options but the really good ones are generally based around mid cap & weenies. Back when I used to play regularly, it seemed like minion superiority/weenie type decks generally tended to get more game wins.

>>52264383
I'm having to build a Shadow Lord. I have no idea what I'm doing.

>>52264493
Shadow lords are cunts, why are you doing this?

>>52264383
Apocalypse > Forsaken

>>52264565
>>52264565
We need a leadership role and I'm the only person who ever can do leadership roles without it turning into crazy shit.

>>52264606
Fair enough, I think you don't like Silver Fangs then?

I don't get the Silver Ladder's appeal but would like to. Can anybody point me in the right direction?

>>52264638
I could play a Silver Fang, but I wanted to do a slightly little bit different. I was going to shore up our 'mortal side' route as well, since no one wants to play a Gnawer or a Glass Walker. Be the leadership who comes from political stock in the mortal realm with Allies and Contacts and Influence to mess with things.

>>52264646
The God Emperor of Mankind from 40k would be an example of the mind set of a Silver Ladder thearch.

Noble goals with questionable methods at times.

>>52264689

But isn't that the schtick of the Guardians of the Veil?

>>52264483
True enough. And assuming 4+ player game, KRC is bound to have at least one other player voting in favor because it's no harm for them and you're likely putting at least one in their Prey.

You can get titles on anyone via corresponding political actions that grant titles. But it's kind of need votes to get votes situation.

Coming from M:tG I'm also kinda struggling to comprehend that card-draw works completely different here and burning through your whole hand a turn is not necessarily a bad thing.

>>52264783
Every order has noble goals with questionable methods. The guardians are more about protecting awakened society from hidden threats, keeping sleepers from destroying magic with dissonance, and keeping Mages themselves in check.

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>>52265181
>>52264783
The Free Council believes that Humanity is special, and that mages act too high and mighty and don't apprecriate the muggles.

The Silver Ladder on the other hand believes that Humanity is dogshit, Mages are obviously way better, so the only compassionate thing to do is make everyone Mages.

Basically Silver Ladder are aristocrats who believe strong in nobility obliges.

>>52265249
The mysterium studies and catalogs arcane knowledge. Also wants to round up sleepers and stick them into concentration camps.

The arrow is kind of tragic. They're fighting a war defending mage society but their true enemy is one they can't defeat.

>>52265322
>Also wants to round up sleepers and stick them into concentration camps.
That's a bit extreme. I won't say that Mystagogues don't have beef with Sleepers, but they aren't all Dakshas.

>>52265394
If I had to rank major orders it would go something like:

Free Council -Most pro-sleeper order
Silver Ladder
Adamantine Arrow-Close to neutral on sleepers
Guardians of the Veil
The Mysterium

Hypothetical order consisting only of wizard Hitlers

Seers of the Throne

>>52265493
Didn't most of the Pentacle side with the Nazis in WWII?

>>52264646
Basically, you're one of the few people trying to achieve some semblance of organisation and order within Awakened society.

The Awakened are dangerous, yet wonderful, so it's your job to ensure that they can all live together without everyone dying horribly.
You teach empowering scripture of the inherent good and nobility of the human soul, and encourage people to Awaken through the Elemental Precepts.
You take on roles within the Consilium or your Order and help those both above and below you.

But most of all, you are forthright in your power. You are entirely worthy of the gifts you have been blessed with, your Awakening was proof of that. Wisdom is a cruel shackle upon you, that pains you for doing what is RIGHT. Acts are still heinous. Destroying an Awakened soul is a heartwrenching loss, the death of every Awakened mage pains a true Thearch, for even as their enemies, the Seers and Banishers are still Mages. Albeit Mages in rebellion against the best damn hope for the future of mankind.

Mages come to the Silver Ladder because they want to feel proud, because they want to take upon a position of authority in Awakened society, or because they desire power.

The Thearch doctrine teaches to forsake the Paths of the Stag and the Lion. Be not a meek servant of those you serve, nor a rampant predator who feasts upon them for his own exaltation. Be the Sage, the Mage who tempers power with wisdom (not Wisdom) and seeks the betterment of all. For through the Silver Ladder, we Ascend.

>>52265524
... No, in facts the deaths in their membership caused from participation in both sides of the conflict caused the Arrow to forbid their membership from taking part in Sleeper conflicts.

The Orders didn't necessarily take sides, though I could certainly see a number of Mystagogues who would have taken advantage of Nazi Occultism, and Thearchs who might desire to be on what they saw as the side of the winners with the new Third Reich.

Certain Legacies I assume took more hard-line approaches.
The Daksha threw their entire weight behind the Nazis, FYI, seeing great common ground in their beliefs in racial supremacy.

>>52265524
>>52265630

Didn't the Silver Ladder smuggle Axis mages out of Europe, and the Free Council smuggled Seers out of Europe, and this mutual breach of trust ruined the close relationship between the Thearchs and Libertines that originally led to the Council joining the Pentacle.

>>52265790

Yes. See the Operation Oracle section of Mage Noir, p. 34.

How do you call beings from the supernal realms? Spirits? Gods?

>>52266773
You mean how to summon a Supernal entity?

>>52266773
Supernal beings.

>>52266773

They are generally referred to just as Supernal beings. However, each of the Supernal realms have specific native beings:

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Supernal_Summoning

Angels of the Aether - Cherubim and Seraphim
Fae of Arcadia - Moirae and Anachronisms
Demons of Pandemonium - Wraiths and Imps
Beasts of the Primal Wild - Totems and Atavisms
Shades of Stygia - Spectres and Apeiron

Would you play a CWoD LCG? Lets say FFG gets a hold of the rights or whoever is making it just makes a game where you pick a Supernatural and make a deck for them. Different sub factions for sub-play styles. Mage decks, Werewolf decks, Vampire decks ect.

How would you want it to play out? How would you want each archetype to be represented?

>>52267006
>Would you play a CWoD LCG?
If it's Jyhad reprint, sure.

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Oogity boogity BOO

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>>52268044

>>52267006
I could imagine it like a board game +deckbuilder with faction cards dedicated to certain type of victory for example vampires winning on points gathered from diplomacy and sneaky things while mages/demons having sort of "wonder" type of gameplay

>>52267006
Only if they let you play the Technocracy.
In which case I would exclusively play them.

>Read GotV
>Read SotT
>Currently reading Silver Ladder
>Realized that I'm way more interested in running or playing a conspiracy vs conspiracy game than I am in a normal Mage game
>Maybe something in the vein of Houses of the Blooded

How much potential within the rule set as written is there for playing out conspiracy on conspiracy action and how much would I have to run by fiat or house rules?

>>52268044

Wraith Supremacy???

>>52268377

>Ghetto mages dindu nuffin

>>52268377

WE WUZ ATLANTEANS!

>>52265022
It's been even longer since I regularly played Magic, but with VtES card flow is extremely important. Because of the draw-to-replace rule, in most cases you'll want to try and play as many actions in a turn as possible. That's the weakness of vote decks, since you have less actions per turn and so you have to make them count.

>>52267055
This.
Jyhad base set is almost perfect as a LCG anyways.

>>52263997
I forgot to mention in >>52268542
You really only ever want to worrow about your prey and predator. It's never usually worth it to cross-table spank your grandprey or grandpredator unless they are playing like a really annoying turbo style recursion gimmick or table control deck. Even then you'd still want to concentrate your votes on targetting your prey first and predator second.

MtAW question. What spheres do you need to project kinetic shield around another object like car or house? Doesn't have to be full shield - can be projected from the direction of the hit?

>>52268731
Forces.

>>52268762
That I got but do forces are enough to project away from you and around something you do not see necessarily?

>>52268731
MtAw? You mean Awakening? They're called the Arcana, not Spheres, and Forces is sufficient.

>>52268779
Yes.

Forces 3 lets you bestow kinetic shields.

>>52268790
>>52268794

Alright I just need this for crazy driving Seer of the throne npc for my VtR game and I don't know mage rules that well. Thanks guys

>>52268809
Just remember, if you want to affect something larger than size 5 (a normal person), you'll need to increase the scale factor, and likely want to move onto the advanced scale as well using Reach.

>>52268834
Ah I was wondering if this requires some more complex casting. Will have to read it. Thanks mate

>>52261941
And Oracles just leave the Tellurian altogether? No last stand, no "fuck you, the universe isn't going to be your toy", no Ascension War? Well, there go all talks about MAD. Screencapped.

>>52269341
By all accounts, the Oracles are capital-G Gone, and that is canon.
Caput. Sayonara. Arrivederci. Au revoir.

Whether that was a side effect of establishing the Watchtowers or not is unknown.

>>52269363
>and that is canon
Quote, please? If if original Oracles gone, there are plenty of other Ascended non-Exarch beings in the Tellurian.

>>52262815
>Where your morality is subjective, Hubris becomes optional.
I am sorry, but it is you who is fucking retard. It already is:
>Every mage and every circumstance is different from a Wisdom standpoint. Two mages in nearly identical circumstances may cast the same spell or commit the same action, but to one, his Wisdom is safe while the other risks degeneration.

>I would tell you this to your face, but for the risk of getting banned from the OPP forums
Don't be a shy little bitch. Let's make a second "Understanding Wisdom" thread, shall we?

>>52262815
>>52269393
>In the Acts of Hubris section below, you’ll see example acts for each level of Wisdom. These are only general recommendations. As a Storyteller, assess each action for potential hubris...
>only general recommendations
>assess each action for potential hubris

Fuck you, Wisdom is already subjective and dependent upon the whims of Storyteller.

ST advice time. Share tips for building a "living" city instead of "prop" one. Also do you do heavy alters to existing cities to suit your games?

>>52262815

I take 10 Dark Archon/Geckopirateship over Mrmdubois. I have never seen someone being such a retarded fanboy of the game and then know so little about it.

He leaves magefags here on the dust with his cocksucking DaveB skills.

>>52269610
It sounds like you just hate magefags in general, buddy.

>>52269679

No, i just dislike Mrmdubois for being an annoying blind fanboy.

I just feel pity for all the other non ascension magefag.

>>52269825
Ascension magefags are the one you should pity the most, what with their dead game and all.

>>52270071

ENTROPY SUPREMACY

>>52270149
Death arcana is better- because death controls all dead things, including dead games

so entropy has to do what Death wants anyway- literally can't win

>>52270239

But Entropy can disintegrate speeding bullets. So it wins by default.

>>52270298
So can Death. The Shielding practice with Death is pretty much all about taking all the substance and energy out of attacks and decaying weapons that are used to attack you.

So can someone tell me why everyone in this game is fucking creepy or insane?

>Get invited to a house game by a friend
>Get there it's a stand up game without a table
>Weird but I'm rolling with it
>system is confusing but I work through it
>Friend tells me to make a tory because I do art
>Not into politics so I'm like lul whatever sure
>make a generic 'vamp'
>people act like I'm the shit
>I'm a shy person, but I roll with it
>Say I'm out of towner on a sabbatical
>people get really excited
>I take a bathroom break
>Guy with witch nose and bad ancm follows me
>Guy tells me you can't see me
>What am I in kindergarten?
>childest but it's a game so only a little weirded out
>Change out of work clothes
>Come out of bathroom the Princess wants to talk to me
>I thought this was a modern game, but sure lets meet the princess
>Princess wants to DOM me
>weirded out
>Princess starts asking me questions about where I'm from
>Feels like a therapy session
>Weirded out
>Tells him about my dead boyfriend about how I want to burn everything down
>Asks me if I'm here alone ...
>I tell him about my Friend
>They bring my friend in and call him a traitor
>Both of them wave their hands in the air, while insulting each other
>Princess gets angry
>They 'kill' Princess, with a piece of wood. They tell me she's just asleep
>Friend becomes Princess with me as her second in command
>That worked out I guess?
>Everyone calls us heretical. Not even catholic
Wtf just happened?

>>52271021
Vampfags man, not even once.

>>52271021
Maybe that's the reason my Vampire sessions are always shit: my group is not weird enough to play it.

>>52271021
Is this a larp thing? Is this a troll?

Regardless, the Kindred ruler of a city is traditionally called its Prince. So that's what that was about.

>>52271146
Feels like a troll.

At least lack of understanding of basic stuff about vampire while playing vampire would indicate that

>>52271021
I love VtM larp. It's so fucking stupid, and people are stupid ABOUT it, and somehow that's charming as fuck to me.

An adult woman bringing their claws out on my friend OoC over her IC personality... less charming. I know that shit too well. It can be pretty funny to see when my friend's in the right mood to NOT respond in kind, because then it's just the other woman (who is over 30) throwing a fit like a child in public.

>>52252757
Most mages that aren't seers or left handed want other humans to awaken

So...how 'bout them Mummies?

On the OPP forums, Dave indicated that the upcoming Dark Eras Companion will include over 3000 words just dealing with crossover material, notably "notes about what Arcana you need to detect/manipulate Pillars and how Mummy's 1e rules interact with 2e ghosts."

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/1062055-dark-eras-fixing-adding-actual-crossovers-to-the-crossover-eras

>>52271021
>start chatting with a guy
>mutual interest in WoD
>know it's not going to work out, but agree to a first date anyway
>he's an oWoDfag who loves WtA and VtM
>he reveals that he's also a furry /pol/tard

Remember, part of WoD's popularity is wrapped up in the idea that at one point it was transgressive and edgy, so it will always attract borderline personalities and out and out weirdos. For every one near-normie there is a whole coven of people who think they are real life witches larping as vampires in trenchcoats.

Are there Nephandi in awakening?

>>52271865

I'm looking forward to when it comes out in 2020.

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I took a crack at adapting a few Legacies for Mage 2e campaigns.

>>52252637
LaughingGodMachine.avi

>>52273011

Machine implies it was built by someone.

God wins yet again.

>>52273019
Just like an organic god implies it was birthed by someone?

>>52273052

>God in oWoD
>birthed by anyone

Don't make me pull the plug on you.

>>52273019
>Machine implies it was built by someone.

Yes by Abyss worshipping greys that are prepping the world for terraforming.

>>52273063
Oh oWoD. Then you're fucked, God hates humanity and generally everything in Creation. Thats why he fucked off. The only times he actually comes back is to kill everyone and start over.

>>52273084

>God hates humanity

Faggot detected. God only hates you.

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>>52273107
>He doesn't know

I NEED ACTUAL PLAYS
WEREWOLF THE APOCALYPSE ACTUAL PLAYS

>>52273063
I'm saying it's no more true than the other statement. If one can be the causeless spontaneous beginning point of a mythology, so can the other.

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>>52273230

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>>52271865
>DaveB shoving Mage Supremacy in everything

Holy fucking shit, everything is going to hell in a handbasket.

>>52272420
There are The Mad, insane Mages, so they're similar.

>>52273349

The Mad in Awakening are like Marauders in Ascension. The Nephandi equivalent are the Scelesti, or their more powerful archmaster brethren, the Aswadim.

Also, Dave providing requested crossover rules for Mummy, a very high powered splat in its own right using 1e mechanics, is hardly him "shoving Mage Supremacy."

Now, this DaveB (sarcastically) discussing Mage Supremacy in relation to gravity control under Forces in 2e.

>>52261993
>If they wanted to do anything as silly as "win" in a crossover, they should bloody well learn to fly.
>Mage Supremacy!

>>52273586
Scelesti comparison is kinda misleading from what I know since all Nephandi were monstrous assholes(at best) while Scelesti can at least have some good intentions or redeeming qualities. Or am I mistaken?

>>52273665

A Scelestus can tell themselves that they have good intentions, but bringing forth the Abyss and imposing anti-reality on humanity is not a good thing under any circumstances.

>>52273586
>If they wanted to do anything as silly as "win" in a crossover, they should bloody well learn to fly

Apparently, the key to ultimate Supremacy in the CofD is flight.

>Obrimos Supremacy

>>52268377
So many Technocrat sympathizers on here when all they represent is control and ignorance.

>>52264265
Not him, but - you're not WRONG, per se, but you're setting up a character that's not particularly interesting. Like, if I was your ST, I'd reject that concept until you gave him some kind of actual motivation that could tie into an Obsession.

People don't just Awaken by accident. Your character sounds like the type that might hear the call of a Watchtower, but not the type driven enough to actually answer and successfully complete an Awakening.

>>52268380
You can totally do it with the game as is, no change necessary. I've toyed with running an all GotV game that's all magic espionage against the Seers.

Anyone else get pissed off by the hate-on White Wolf's writers and the lore seem to have for human achievements and the human condition? Like there's a story about a woman abusing her kids in one of the splatbooks At first, it looks like it's mundane, and that this woman was abusing her children because they're an inescapable reminder of the missing, deadbeat father, and the only form of control she's found in the wreck of her life. Turns out she's possessed by the Wyrm and is an angelic mother otherwise. It wasn't even the Wyrm bringing out what was right below the surface, nah, she was just a good person infected by a demon. Every important person in history has belonged to some splat or another. Technology is evil, and really distributed by a ridiculous Illuminati of wizards. Psychiatry is horrible, because crazy people are glamorous enough to see changelings, and it kills changelings! Quackery and realizing one's self is a more noble endeavor then pursuing science or serving the greater good.

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>>52271021

It took me far longer to spot this than I should have. Now I keep going back over it for more KEKs. Bravo.

what happened to new splat? Renegade, i think?

>>52274853
Still in dev.

>>52274872
Not the OP but I've been thinking. Between minor splats described in Hurt Locker, Stigmatics from demon(along with Deva corporation), Cheiron from Hunter and probably some other stuff in other splats why do we even need Deviant. What more can they make then stuff they already described

>>52274730
>Technology is evil, and really distributed by a ridiculous Illuminati of wizards. Psychiatry is horrible, because crazy people are glamorous enough to see changelings, and it kills changelings! Quackery and realizing one's self is a more noble endeavor then pursuing science or serving the greater good.

The Technocracy is a terribly written bad guy faction. When you turn down the black and give them some sympathetic qualities or grey morality, they instantly become totally reasonable, likable, and even good people. As someone who's had an actual job before, I find way more sympathy in the beleaguered bureaucrat with distant and out of touch bosses trying to still do what he thinks is best for people then the 90's rebel trying to stick it to the man and bring everything down.

Even then, the Technocrats are all about creating rules of reality that allow normal people to control and alter it. They've literally democratized magic and empowered the Masses by leaking it into the consensus. Hence technology and science places control over primal forces into the hands of lay people and makes reality obey one set of defined rules that anyone can learn and use as they see fit. This is compared to the Traditions, who are all about breaking the rules of reality by forcing them to act in aberrant or different ways for their own benefits. Sure, under a Traditions paradigm, more Sleepers would awaken, but how about those who can't awaken for whatever reason? Will the Traditions be passing on all sorts of magical devices like cell phones (Correspondence) or Computers to them?

>>52263899
Why did you decide to make me into a wod character?

>>52274853
>>52274872

Deviant is still in early development, and Dave indicated that he might not engage in open development like he did with Mage 2e.

Simply, Deviant is a very long way off. I believe Changeling 2e, Geist 2e, and Dark Eras 2 all precede Deviant on the schedule.

>>52274932
This is why in Awakening they made Seers of the Throne thoroughly loathsome and unlikeable. You can't have main antagonists that many would argue is more moral than designated good guys.

>>52274932
How do we know that the world wouldn't have advanced even further and that mankind wouldn't have been better off without the Technocracy? The Union didn't invent science, and guys like Plato existed before the Union. People are still going to want shit like phones and clean water, so who's to say that a magical solution wouldn't have been invented under a different paradigm? How do we know that the Union wasn't just taking credit for other people's works? And the Hermetic Order is very scientific, along with the Sons of Ether and the Virtual Adepts. Even when they were young and innocent, the Society of Reason still backed and were backed by the elite, and their consensus was more interested in control and enriching themselves then advancing the human race.

>>52272760

What's the fifth attainment for the Blank Badges?

>>52273586

No, the Blank Badges are the Marauders in Awakening. Well, at least the Umbral Underground.

>>52272420
The Scelesti are Abyss-worshipping Mages that are quite nihilists, but I think they lack the little thing that impressed me about the Nephandi.
Probably related to the setting, as they "just" worship the Abyss, and aren't "the heat death of the universe in human form". The whole nihilism schtick is way more powerful emotionally regarding how Magic(k) works in MtAs, imho.

>>52272760
It happens I've run games which went on long enough where people attained high gnosis multi-degree mastery and even arch-mastery.

>>52275132
It was more a complaint about how oWoD Mage was written, with tons of scorn heaped upon one side that seemed pretty damn reasonable if you were to take a step back. I know it's supposed to be Tradition propaganda, but it always seemed more like the author's way to slip in anti-Modernist or anti-Scientific drivel. "Science removes all wonder; homeopathy should be treated seriously!"

Give me a break.

If the stories were more evenhanded, with both sides being good or neutral doing what they had to out of necessity, and the Ascension War played as more of a tragic thing, then I'd think that that would be more interesting then, Techno = Bad (with just a little good) and Trads = Good (with just a little bad).

I think that the Seers are worse though, as they are very boring faction. Give me the muddled, wishy-washy Technocracy or even Nephandi any day of the week over those dolts.

>>52275333
That's Crazy Uncle Phil for you !
I always thought of the Technocracy and Traditions as morally gray, the only true baddies being the Nephandi.

>>52275333

That's how I always played the Technos and Trads. And don't kid yourself, The Traditions have done horrible shit to fight the Union.

I'd like it if both sides started suffering a degree of disillusionment in regards to the war canonically.

And the Seers aren't supposed to be the morally grey Technocracy. Any self-justification they have is just that. They lack flavor because they shouldn't exist, and are propped up by Exarchs and Tetrarchs breaking the pax arcana.

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>>52274932
I'm a huge Technocracy fan, but I have found a couple of ways to have them still be a viable antagonist faction, even once you remove much of the cartoonish evil.

For one thing, we have to remember that we are all living the Technocratic paradigm. We loathe the idea of giving up our superior medicine and telecommunications, yet it can be argued that a Traditionalist world might have wonders of its own. What if legitimate faith healers were as common as doctors and nurses? What if palantiirs were in every home? What if you could walk the roots and branches of Yggdrasil to visit distant family members? It would be a different world, to be sure, but not necessarily a worse one.

For another, the Union hasn't really democratized magic as much as we might initially believe. They have created a system that rewards the intelligent, the disciplined, and the educated, but so did the Order of Hermes. And just like with the Order, we can see that there are a surprising number of people who, when confronted with the deeper mysteries and the more arcane lore, scratch their heads and throw up their hands in surrender. And just like with the Order, we see that many experts and intellectuals are happy to dismiss those who cannot keep up.

So for my current story, what divides the modern Technocracy and Traditions, then, is freedom versus control. The Traditions, beaten and humbled, are learning to let go of their need to control the world, control the Sleepers, control Reality. Instead, they are focusing on individual enlightenment. The Technocracy, seemingly on the cusp of victory, is galvanized to tighten its grip even further.

>>52275488
I do have to defend SotTs here a bit. I like the stuff that they represent as antagonists. They are this petty, lazy, uncaring evil that a lot of people face. Sadist teacher, guy that kicks out families out of buildings that changed owner and said owner raised rent by 300%, corrupt cops and so on and so on. This are people you can hate. Moral greyness is great but you have to get stuff that you can compare it to.

For example I find Nephandi dull because they are so evil I can't even wrap my head around it. Oh they are crazy magic murderhobos that I can't empathize with nor I can hate because they are so outlandish.

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>>52275488
>self-justification
The other orders also have that to a degree. Mages are suppose to be the good guys, but they have as much ability to do harm as good. The literal presence of magic breaks people's souls(integrity) Can magic be a wholly good thing if damages people via it's casual use? I'm not even talking about the piece of abyss in people's souls. From an outsider perspective, it's pretty damning. Not to mention wild paradoxes and the weird auras mages passively apply to their sympathic connections

>Technocrats
One of my favorites npcs I ran was the laybacked syndicate who congratulated tradition mages on waking up and offered them jobs on suicide missions. The syndicate are my favorite faction because they're the equalizing force. They love the status quo. They're living in their paradigm end state. If you're lucky enough and you work hard enough you get what you want. They pull back the other conventions extreme end games back to the middle. To this NPC, those who wake up deserve to be awake.

>>52274110

I find it boring and repetitive that ALL mages have to be obsessive.

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>>52275814
I kinda like the SoT as the classic "power corrupts" antagonists, they're drunk with power over people but they're so afraid of loosing it that they become petty and lazy.

For the Nephandi (pic related), I like them because in Ascension's context, they Awakened to the power of reshaping reality to their will, only to realise there is no reason for the second law of thermodynamics, there is no *true* religion, no great answer. And so they just want to end everything because meaning itself doesn't exist.
>Our dreams are jokes the universe laugh about in its sleep.

>>52275297

They're supposed to be more human than the Nephandi. That's my take, anyway.

You want monstrous actions from untrustworthy backstabbers, go with the Seers. And of course, they have their justifications. But the seers, to mind, take the most despicable traits of the Nephandi and the Technocracy from Ascension. They see the outer gods with big bank accounts, and they choose to kneel.

>>52275840

They do, but they have redeeming qualities. Even the Guardians.

>>52275988

See, that sounds more like a Sclestus from Awakening to me.

ALSO: Unpopular opinion: I don't like Dave's take on the Banishers.

>>52276218
Oh? Care to elaborate on Banishers then?

>>52276244

I liked the concept of the Timori, even if the "magic rapist" legacy was stupid as fuck. I prefer the Banishers as a perspective as opposed to a condition.

>>52276218
>See, that sounds more like a Sclestus from Awakening to me.
I paraphrased bits from Revised and the Book of Madness, so it might just be that Scelesti and Nephandi are *quite* close, being nihilistic mages.

>>52276321

The Scelesti are the masters of their own damnation, the Nephendi bow to otherworldly horrors.

>>52276453

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>>52275840
>laybacked syndicate who congratulated tradition mages on waking up
Very nice.

My players for M20 are going to find the apartment of a mid-rank Syndicate associate who was protecting the local Tradition mages from his own side. He'd reached a mutually beneficial arrangement with the superstitionists, and worried that the Union would stamp out all competition. And of course, competition is necessary for a healthy market.

I'm crossing my fingers that at least one of the players will delve into the hypereconomics textbooks he has in his library.

>>52273586

I don't think DaveB was being sarcastic about that at all.

>>52276531

Dave has repeatedly acknowledged that mages, like mummies and demons, are intentionally set to a higher basic default power tier to maintain thematic and setting consistency. He also couldn't care less about inter-splat or crossover balancing when designing and writing Mage 2e.

However, he also repeatedly scoffs at all "mage supremacy" discussions as pointless, ludicrous and often immature. He particularly has little tolerance for anything with even has a whiff of being a "white room" one-on-one battle discussion.

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>>52276638

Then on some days, DaveB will randomly drop the "mage supremacy" bomb himself, being the troll that he is.

>>52276842

I like it when Dave mocks the mage supremacists.

It's a good balance of acknowledging the priorities and basic assumptions of his own line, yet refusing to get embroiled in foolish and unproductive discussions of "my splat can beat up your spat."

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>>52261993
hilarious

>>52252619
Serious question tg.

How do I play vampire the masquerade (or any of the other vamp books) without inevitably always ending up so pissed off and distrustful that almost every character I make ends up dead by the end of the first storyline?

Is VtM just that kind of game? Am I missing the point somehow? Is it natural for vamps to become uncontrollably paranoid and hostile to basically everyone? Am I just "that guy"? Is the game just not right for me period?

Almost every time I end up in a situation in which I can't tell who is friend and who is foe and I end up just saying fuck it and trying to slay everyone.

Its one thing if this is simply the nature of the game, its another if I'm actually doing it wrong.

Please help.