Class

I have no strong preference. I tend to optimize. In class based system picking up the right class is just one of the steps for a strong build so it really makes no difference.

Existence of classes may give appeal of false diversity (as in - one class rolls with Dex bonus while the other with Str or Cha bonus, otherwise being effectively the same), that's usually a plus with newcomers, making them easier to manage without making them feel like they are being generalized.

>>52238514
Typical Pro-skub scum, unable to properly articulate the "positive" qualities of their crutch and thus having to resort to violence.

People love to label themselves and identify with a class/group. Players gravitate towards classes.

If you want a game to be popular/played, you gotta have classes.

>>52238558

Regarding your first point, do you mostly play combat focused campaigns? I personally feel that this is what classbased systems usually do. I started with classless systems and loved it. When i tried D&D I could get past the feeling of being stuck to more or less one thing. This may of course be that I generally play less combat focused adventures and focus more on the social aspect with some action here and there.

I agree on your second point.

>>52238671

Shit

Meant i couldnt get past the feeling.

How do classless systems work? I have never been able to play anything beyond dnd because my group hates new experiences.

>>52238514
They have different strengths. I really like class based systems for focused games (dungeon crawling, or anything PbtA). Classless systems work better for games where you want to emphasis the change in people; I like the CoC system because the characters advance organically, for example.

Tactical combat is a very "focused" experience, so I think classes do it a lot better than classless, as long as it's well designed.

>>52238558
Rolling with a different stat bonus means your character (if we assume everyne wants to be good at combat) is going to be good at different skills when you aren't just trying to kill something. It's not a big difference, but it's definitely one that's (or can be) more than superficial.

>>52238710
Those that i play have of course stats and skills but you get points to spend on skills and you get those points from backgroundtables and picking a profession which gives you points you can only spend on certain skills and then points you can spend on whatever.

So while you'll probably be directed at a certain direction, by no means are you put into a role and you can after much experience even change completely what you're good at.

>>52238710
>The character wants to learn THING
>GM gives the go-ahead because it makes sense in the story/context of the game
>He pays X amount of XP to learn THING

>>52238610
>anti-skub trying to incite argument where none existed
Typical plebeian.

>>52238514
While I totally appreciate the open nature of classless systems, I don't think I've ever felt creatively hampered by a class based system. Then again, it's been a long time since I played D&D, so I might be misremembering.

Shadow of the Demon Lord does something that I guess could be called... class light? You have three paths that you go down over the course of your character's career: Your novice path, your expert path and your master path. There's nothing to stop you from mixing and matching any of those things, though. So you could play, if you wanted, a Rogue Druid Myrmidon or a Magician Barbarian Inquisitor. It's all pretty free form and open. Pretty cool system.

>>52240242
Legend has another pretty good twist on the class system, without diluting its strengths as much as a level-by-level system does.

>>52238710
Basically you come up with a concept for what you want your character to do. You look through a list of possible abilities that your character could know. You spend the appropriate amount of points to own the abilities that you want your character to know. Then once you've spent all your points, you're done character creation.

Some systems also offer "flaws," which are weaknesses that your character could have that might limit you in some way, like being born blind or being unable to benefit from any magical effects, but the more severe the penalty is, the more additional points you get to spend on building your character, up to a point.

And because classless systems tend to be more simple and abstract, the system will usually have you rolling multiple dice (either as a dice pool like WoD or as a standardized rolling mechanic like GURPS' 3d6 system) and if you succeed, you succeed and if you fail, something happens that moves the plot forward.