/srg/ Shadowrun General

Shit man, i'm just a fuckin first time GM, i trusted my players too much since i've known them for years.

I didn't expect the quickening guy to lie and cheat his way to bwing the biggest stat stick around.

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>>52235926
Okay, so there's a few things that have gone wrong there. First of which is allowing initiation during character creation. Literally the only time it should be allowed is to allow rigger technomancers to submerge for their control rig and even then it's better from a balance perspective to have them go into karma debt at the start of the game to afford it.

Anyway, the major reason to slap your player and tell him to roll it back is that he would've had to roll for the spell hits, and doing that away from the table is shenanigans. Also, strictly speaking quickening isn't on the list of things you can do with your remaining karma during character creation.

>>52236159
You can never trust players omae. Never.

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>>52236081
My group is coming back together in a few weeks. I'm excited but worried that everyone is gonna be way to minmax'd and I'll be the unless because I care more about playing as characters I can role playing instead of number crunching machines. Fuck.

>>52236273
>I care more about playing as characters I can role playing instead of number crunching machines

I don't like this false dichotomy. You can make a mechanically good character and roleplay well with them.

>>52236294
I find they're not even a false dichotomy, but essentially two traits independent of each other, that have been roped together for peoples' agendas.

>>52236587
That's exactly what false dichotomy means.

>>52236159
>>52236212
Players are like dragons. You don't trust them, you do not cut deals with them.

>>52236273

Okay listen chummer, it is as >>52236294 pointet out.
Having a optimized character and having a character you can play well are not mutually exclusive.

I guess you are worried about Min-Maxing, where the samurai has logic 1 and charisma 1 because "he is not a smart man". If that is the case it is your GM's job to man up and tell the players to keep their retarded characters at home.

Anyone running anything with room in it? I swear i'm trustworthy and also cute.

Question. If you use the drug Cereprax (CF. Page 180) In a chemical gland and have it as constant release, would it be taking another dose?
And would you ever suffer the crash?

>>52236081
If an male orc and a female elf have kids, with the kids being orcs, does the elf have "litters" like orc women do or does she have a regular number of kids?

>>52237795
The whole thing with litters is ignored in the new edition, just like Orks being carnivorous and dwarves agoraphobic

>>52237976
Huh, I guess it just raised too many questions. Like why aren't orks a majority in some places. It kinda balanced out their short lives though.

Speaking of, is there any official statement about the aging of trolls? Because my head canon is that they live as long as elves.

/srg/, what are the houserules that you're fond of?

>>52237992
IIRC instead of having litters their gestational period is shorter
And no, Trolls live on average 60 years. I know about it in 4e, but the 5e CRB should also have a table of the sizes and age spans of the metatypes

>>52238011
Huh. The projected lifespan for humans is 55-65. That's interesting. I assume it means natural lifespan, ignoring medicine.

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>>52237992
Goblinised orks and trolls have human lifespans because Bull can't be allowed to die, current fluff indicates that trolls have a life expectancy of around 50 years, while orks have an expectancy of 40-45.
>>52237757
Synthetic drugs can't be produced in a chemical gland. Better question is whether Cereprax can push your intuition to 0.

>>52238083
>trolls have a life expectancy of around 50 years

I know that's the word of god in setting, but somehow it just doesn't sit well with me from a mythological standpoint. Trolls/giants are the kind of entities that live outrageously long times, what with their connection to rock and stone.

>>52238094
Chummer, this is the same setting where Naga are are talking snakes and centaurs have horse heads
They just don't give a shit

>>52238156
Fair enough. I'm at least gonna house-rule that the giant metavariant lives as long as elves.

>>52238083
>Goblinised orks and trolls have human lifespans because Bull can't be allowed to die
They could just have sorted out by not being morons and saying the life expectancy table isn't natural lifespan but typical life expectancy in the UCAS or some shit.

>>52238170
Sure, the age chart is mostly useful to determine when you are born and approx how much time you have to live. Since you'll at most spend 5-6 years in game it doesn't really matter unless you already were close to it
Fluff wise the only thing that would really change is that Giants are researched even more than now. Currently because a fourth of their offspring are human

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>>52238215
One fourth of all females. I also read as expressing human, but still having genetic potential for giants. So a woman that might outwardly look human would have all giant children. Partly as a nod to the fact that in Scandinavian myths about trolls the females can shapeshift into beautiful maidens and the famous Bauer image of the troll mother.

One more question that could probably be answered if I took the time to pour through all of Run Faster. Are metavariant expressions tied to where someone is from or where they are at the time? That is, a fourth generation Japanese immigrant on the West coast of the states would manifest as a regular ork or an oni?

>>52238278
Nobody knows. It seems that it in some way depends on the location (Nartaki only transform at the Ganges) and in some other way depends on the heritage (People with Japanese heritage turn into Oni) but there is no accurate way to predict if someone expresses as a metavariant or not

>>52237164
You argue there are more options, where I hold there are none.

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Hi /srg/, i'm currently working on a Shadowrun game where the players are a desert war team, with all the trouble that comes along with being a professional player in the sixth world (blackmail, bribery, sabotage (even in form of assasinations), bets, corp contracts, etc.).

Since there isn't that much information on desert war, besides beign the most popular sport i wrote up some rules and would like to hear what you think about it.

Squad
4-6 People

Per Person:
-Primary weapon: Shotguns, Snipers, two handed in general
-Secondary weapon: Pistols, Shields, one handed in general
-Melee: from knife to shock ram
-6 Extras= Clips, Grenades, Decks, RCCs

Per Squad:
-one Vehicle
-two small or smaller drones/ one medium or larger Drone
-one Spirit, its summoner has to be a part of the Team.

If group size is below six, missing people can be replaced by adding a drone per missing person.
At least 4 metahumans need to be in a team.

Additional equipment may be brought but is left to the judgment of the on site judge to ensure a fighting chance (no rocket launcher vs “team taser” curb-stomp battle)

common play styles:
team death match
capture the flag
capture the point
VIP rescue

Play sizes are usually 1 on 1 squads or 3 on 3 or “full scale” with 9-12 Squads vs 9-12 Squads.


Do you guys have any thoughts on this ?

>>52239337
Consider giving your players discounts for gear that's specifically and visibly corp-brand; if they're running for Ares, a slight discount on ares guns and gm cars, for example.

Also I'd assume desert wars would have much larger teams than your runner crew.

>>52239449
I'd also assume that the News don't really bother with recording the entry league (squad vs squad) and the larger ones beign more common on the trid (also because, more death).

But i and the players have to start somewhere and build up their team or looking for other small teams to work tohether with them (without shooting them in the back)

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>>>52234514
I would take a run from the Sweet Prince, no problem. The first one might cause some problems depending on the group's attitudes to racial stereotypes.

If I have cyberlegs, is my movement my legs agility or my limb average agility?

>>52239874
Yes.

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How does Magic Fingers interact in combat?

Does it use up your own initiative pool or does it have it's own?

More importantly, can I dual wield monofilament whips with them?

>>52240049
They're your hands and it's still you acting.

>dual wield melee
No point. Single wield is just as effective.

>>52240049
>dual wield monofilament whips
I feel like this is just asking for trouble

>>52240427
>asking for trouble
and making it double

Anyone have a line on Book of the Lost? Even 7chan doesn't have it.

>>52240326
Gotcha. I'm trying to find interesting ways to stab people from a distance as a mage without just casting fling on things.

>>52240427
That's what magic fingers is for.

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Would you rule that Take Aim could be also be used for melee weapons?

>>52240793
I mean, if the target just stands in front of you and doesn't do shit, why not?

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What are some good drones for a non-rigger to pick up?

>>52240956
sex bot

hand drone

autoblow2

>>52240793
You'd have to wait until your next turn to use the benefit (melee attacks are a complex action, remember) and meanwhile your opponent is hacking you to death while you lose a whole attack just to gain +1 die to your attack, so even if you allow it it's kind of a shitty idea.

>>52240843
>>52241003
Well I'm currently running a physical adept who uses the Kenjutsu martial art. With Iaijutsu I can draw and attack with my sword as a Simple Action. I figured that if I use a Simple Action to Take Aim on a target, then use my other Simple Action to use Iaijutsu, I can further improve my dicepool.

>>52240956
Fly-Spy
just get yourself some fly-spys and let the rigger access them

>>52240956
Bust-A-Moves.

Oh wait, that was 4th ed

Horizon Little Buddies.

>>52240956
Depending on the edition, 4e had Emoti-Toys from Attitude. They can come with a rating 6 empathy software. Also you can play with their sensor upgrades to turn them into inconspicuous scanners for pretty much anything

Other good option from 4e would be a Mr. FixIt from runner companion. The name says it all, they're cheap and they come with the tools and programming to handle a craft of your choice.

>>52241145
IIRC, Iaijutsu let's you quick draw as a simple action then make a melee attack as another simple action. I'm at work so I can't check for you though.

Have any of you ever used artifacts in the game? How'd that end up for you, giving people some custom gear or what have you.

>>52241849
You're right! I did neglect to mention that I took the Rapid Draw adept power so that I could make it a Free Action. Do you think sheathing a sword would be a Free Action as weapon?

>>52241915
Rather, "Do you think sheathing a sword would be a Free Action as DRAWING a weapon?"

Hey guys. Looking to give myself a bit of a mental exercise. Give me a character concept that you would never allow into one of your games, and I will try to make a character that follows that concept, that you WOULD allow.

Rules: Give me a reason why its not allowed in your game.

Don't be overly specific. Burnout aspected alchemy blood toxic mage changeling dryad isn't a challenge, its just obnoxious.

Have a somewhat open mind. Don't say "No gnomes, because I don't like short people" and answer with "Yeah, but he's still a gnome."

[And for those who remember, yes, I'm the same guy who made the Badger character concept, as well as the Cyber Naga]

>>52242178
How about a full body cyborg? Bonus point if his brain is in something silly like a truck

>>52242306

So... What are you asking that's different from any other person who's replaced bits of their body down to .01 essence?

>>52242326
maybe he's asking for Jarheads, though that only works for 4e

>>52242337

Possibly. And I would only be making a 5th edition character as its the only one I'm familiar with.

Also, its not exactly sounding like a concept that someone wouldn't usually allow into their campaigns.

>>52242371
ok then how about some kind of historian specialized into using outdated tech

>>52242417

As in, making a character who specializes in Pre-crash hard and software?

>>52242429
maybe, not sure. Some friend told me he wanted to join a game I partake in and said that was the concept he wanted to make. I didn't want to systematically shit him down but I honestly think it wont work at all

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Reposting from last thread.

I have two ideas for a cool Fixer for the team to get as a free contact.

Neil, a black dude who runs a strip club called Jungle Fever in Snohomish. The decorations, both AR and physical, are all jungle-themed. The girls are all ebony, and from every race, be they human, dwarf, elf, or goblin. The important thing is that they have huge booties, and look good in leopard-skin lingerine.

The place mostly sells cheap, deep-fried soy food, which Neil cooks himself into a surprising array of delicious dishes, The alcohol is all cheap synthahol and beer with the consistency of monkey-piss, but it's alcohol.

There's a private room, connected to both the dance floor and the kitchen. It's almost never used by the strippers, since nobody who come's here has the kind of money for a private show. The room is connected to the kitchen, so Neil uses this room to brief runners on missions, if he's not vidcalling from the steamy kitchen.

The other is a dude who meets runners in a private host, decorated to be a candy-themed mansion. Everything in the place is edible, from the marble-looking floor actually being white marble chocolate, to the walls tasting like snozzberries. The Johnson himself changes his appearance very often, but he's always seen with a ridiculous cotton-candy afro, which less diplomatic runners have been tempted to try and taste.

I'm debating between naming him King Cotton Candy (it was going to be just King Cotton, since I originally envisioned him as a black dude, but I realized that was pretty racist desu), or naming him The Sweet Prince.

Thoughts?

>>52242178
Having no family members whatsoever.
>This includes mentors, parental figures, spirits that are constant companions, and so on and so forth

Protagonist or cryo-style amnesia
>Your typical min-maxed character sheet where the background section is a blank page.

Displaced setting characters
>Ancient beings, orks that just happen to be 200 years old, callbacks from earthdawn

Little girls as shadowrunners
>Not as companions, and actually a little girl.

Something or someone super-powerful "in disguise."
>CEOs of Triple-As, sekrit dragons, powerful spirits, etcetra

I think that covers the worst of it. Good luck.

>>52242748

Alright, I think I can Work with these.

The only thing I can't technically do is write a character concept for a character that doesn't have a character concept. So I probably won't be doing the 2nd one because doing the second one would no longer be doing the second one.

>tfw you realize, reading old books, that Clockwork and Kane used to be pariahs that most runners would shoot on sight because they're moronic go gangers who go loud on the most trivial run
Fucking CGL

>>52242812
No but Kane is /dev/grrl's mentor so he's cool now.
And Clockwork has to stick around so that there's a designated asshole.

>>52242790
An example of the second one done well is Dirvish from SR storytime - but even before he met the other players he still had *some* things he learned, and even picked up a parental/mentor figure in the process.

>>52242845
>Decker genius needs a mentor
>The mentor barely has the computer skills of my grandmother but talks a big game and somehow Fastjack doesn't just have him murdered and /devgrrl extracted from her own good like the street version of CPS
Literal VITAS III

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>>52242919

I think he's more a general shadowrunning mentor, teaching her how the day-to-day works. She wouldn't need a matrix mentor, if she excels at it. She's probably need someone to help shore up her weak points.

No, it is not a good idea for a teenaged girl (well, she's in her early twenties now, but still) to be under the tutelage of a much older man, known to be an insane, womanising, drug-abusing murderer. But I think we can agree that shadowrunners in general have a skewed moral compass, so what's one murderer from another, eh?

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How do I make combat difficult without making it a slog of a lot of bad guys?

It seems like it's very difficult to balance around players who actually know what they're doing (tactically and character-build wise), because the line between "mook" and "runner fucker 5000" is so razor thin.

>>52243392
Put them in situations where they cannot kill indiscriminately.

Surprise Rounds, Surprise Rounds, Surprise Rounds

Remember Group Morale Ratings. I've seen too many GM's who have everybody from gangers to HTR fight to a TPK. Cleaning up a routed set of enemies is a challenge in itself.

Don't let players get comfy in their battle plans. When they take cover, render that cover useless. When they charge, have enemies focus fire. Don't give their characters a moment to formulate a battle plan. Hit fast, hit hard. Everybody has tactics until they get shot in the face.

>>52243392
I prefer combat between runners and a few stronger opponents (usually about equal to the number of runners). Keeps the number of action phases a turn down.
Also, add combat scenarios have a goal that's not just murder. Like bodyguard work, or chase scenes.

Yekka, taking a chemical gland crashes Chummer, version 5.190.0

So has anyone got a pdf of the Book of the Lost yet? Apparently the Tarot cards are the pinnacle of CGL's retardation.

>>52245249
Yekka does.

>>52245284
He has a pdf?

Pls gibe Yekka.

>>52243030
I always found the part where he's a part-time human trafficker to be Kane's most objectionable trait, personally.

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>>52245377
It has DRM. It'll be in the pastebin as soon as it gets cracked.

Clarification:

If a decker gets a mark on a slaved device, they get another mark on the master device, NOT every device on the PAN, right?

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>Code of Honor: The Path of the Samurai
>Restriction: May not kill anyone from surprise or via treachery. May not break his word once given.

Obviously this restricts a character from slitting a snoozing corpsec's throat, or slaughtering gangers after he's agreed to spare their lives. But does this Code of Honor restrict a runner from using non-lethal surprise attacks like a tazer, chokehold, or gel rounds on an unassuming target? Does he have to announce himself Inigo Montoya style before he can start swinging his sword? Furthermore if going by RAW, does this mean a runner with this code suffers no penalty for sneak-attacking targets so long as the target doesn't die?

>>52246846
As long as you don't kill anyone that way, you're not breaking the literal code but since this is kind of a gray area, I wouldn't abuse it

>>52246846
If we're following it strictly by the letter and by RAW then yeah, you'd be good in surprising someone with a taser.

The thing with Code of Honor is that it's much more of a roleplaying/fluff centric quality than others of similar worth like TLE-X or full Insomnia. For it to work as a negative-quality worth 15 Karma, the player has to abide by the code of honor to the spirit as well as the letter. So while a street-samurai with that could interpret the code to be as flexible as possible, it's generally considered within the spirit of the game to let it restrict and challenge you to a decent degree.

>>52246846
>roleplaying element
>RAW

Kill yourself, you karma-whoring faggot.

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>>52247595
I'll add a trigger warning for you next time if you get set off this easily.

I'm interested in making a Muscle Car Magician: someone who uses spells and spirits to obtain MAXIMUM DRIVE. I'm curious if there is some sort of Vehicle Focus or some kind of spell that would allow me to alter the Handling and Speed of a vehicle while I'm behind the wheel or help me lower thresholds.

I'm not interested in turning Seatle into a nuclear wasteland where everyone's dead, so I'm not looking into the Movement spirit power just yet.

>>52247982
I think what you want is the adept metamagic that lets you attune a vehicle. Also you could get some ridiculous dicepools by mixing the analyse device and attribute boost spells with the improved abilities powers and adept metamagic

>>52246846
>can I cheese code of honor for free karma
No

>>52247679
You're the reason most RPGs stopped putting in roleplay-focused negatives after the 90s, min-maxing shithead.

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>>52248365
You don't know anything about me, omae. Go be salty somewhere else if a question sends you into an autistic rage. Here's a smug anime girl for your trouble.

>>52247982
Honestly, 3rd and 4th have better vehicular rules in general; 5e's appeal to grogs seems to have included going back to shitty, nigh unplayable vehicles.

I've managed to make myself a cyber pirate character as a semi-joke concept and the only thing he's still missing is a good enough pistol

What could I give him to emulate some kind of flintlock or hand canon?

>>52248871
A pistol shotgun (either the one in the core book or the Krime)

>>52248871
Lemat 2072
Revolver with an integrated single-shot shotgun barrel.

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>>52245377
Busy with worship.
>>52245216
Update to a current build, 190 is old.

>>52240442
>wanting to protect the world from devastation

Go home, TerraFirst!

>>52241836
The Prolatarian is the equivalent of the Fixit in 5e

>>52241836
>allowing anything from Attitude
Almost as bad as allowing fucking War! at the table.

>>52249340
I'll admit, 90% of all gamebreaking pieces of gear comes from those 2 books but to be honest, if you don't include them your mundane characters have one hell of a harder time keeping up with the magical ones

>>52249401
There's a difference between helping mundanes keep up and "lol, the rigger is now a better face than the maxed out elf face with all the relevant bioware"

>>52242178
Heavily augmented history professor with a love of mundane spirit conjuring.

>>52249444
you do realize the elf also has access to those, right?

>>52249792

He's saying you can either spend a hundred thousand or so on a bot, or hundreds of thousands of nuyen, and tons of karma, to get a lesser effect.

It's game-breaking bullshit, like half of everything in this awful excuse for a system.

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What would be a good way to port D&D 5e Portent? I expect it to be broken, but it's thematically necessary.

The only thing I can think of would be a spell that allows you to add or subtract successes to other rolls.

(Wake up in the morning, cast Portent, get 3 successes, hold it for later. On the run, you decide to give someone 3 successes in their DP. Or instead decide to give an npc -3 successes.)

Or I could just do something like giving temporary edge, but then that doesn't allow you to take away dice.

>>52250723
The divination metamagic and blowing uor GM to give you a warning about something

Chummer5 bug, yekka.
I think it's related to "Treat metatype minimum as 1 for karma costs". Indifferent of what you put on the first "column" in priority, the karma cost to increase an attribute only counts attributes bought with karma.
For example, if you make a Troll and put 4 points into STR (ending up with 9) it costs only 10 Karma to increase it to 10, even though it should cost 30~ Karma with the optional rule.

>>52249340
>>52249444

???????
I assume you're talking about Emotitoys? Those are from Arsenal, not Attitude.

>>52250858
I had to double check but you actually seem to be right. Weird, since literally every complaint, ever, seems to believe the item is from attitude.

Attitude has wonky psuedo-drones that aren't clearly explained well (Iron Will, Steampunk Drone, Medusa extension), and the clothing armor-boosters of Carbon-boron infusion, Kevlar threading, and Delta-amyloid coating.

The armor boosters are only problematic if you start taking them on the individual pieces of Outfits from Arsenal so that you can have a very finely tailored suit that is about as protective as a suit of Full Body Armor. And personally, I think of that as a feature rather than a bug: it doesn't increase the amount of armor you can wear at all, it just lets you dress up in a greatcoat or business suit or a set of booty shorts and a tube top while still maintaining a solid protection stat. I like imagining my characters not all ending up with the paramilitary look, so that pleases me.

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What are some NPCs you like using?

I have a fondness for a merciless blinged out troll I've been using a bit lately.

>>52238083
>>52237992
>>52238011
>>52238094

If I recall about lifespans of Orks and Trolls, isn't there something like with a human mother they live longer? I don't remember where but it was something to do with the fact that human women wouldn't be able to birth them so they come out human and then goblinise or some shit.

>>52250995
Right, those.

Honestly the armor buffs generally suffer the same issues as nanotech hives in Augmentation and FFBA in Arsenal anyway.

But yeah I admit I tend to want my characters to be able to actually still look like they're not wannabe militia and still going aroud in civvie.

>>52250601

>He's saying you can either spend a hundred thousand or so on a bot
Dude, you can max out that bot with a rating 6 empathy soft, appropriate autosofts rating 3, a complete sensor pack including laser microphones and mad scanners, mobility mods like gecko grips and other things like that for less than 10k.

I'll agree it's game breaking but the idea behind it kind of make sense since we currently have irl empathy software used on israeli border checkpoints

>>52250996
Information Broker/Fixer whose non gang cover is running an orphanage in the barrens (I've transposed her general character type in the one game I ran that wasn't Pullayup focused)

She's almost always meeting people surrounded by kids and sometimes ends up asking the runners to help around while they talk shop in front of the kids. The place has a somewhat grimy greenhouse, so runners come for the info, stay for the real food.

>>52250996
Shak-Ira, Ork with a heart of gold. Manages one of the best apartment buildings on her area. Unfortunately her area is the shittiest area of the Redmond Barrens. Used to work for the big A, but after her project of cheap housing went to shit, she decided to run away before the proper punishment came.
Alice, a child human with a bit of an uncomfortable life. A strange cult uses her as their outside contractor when hiring runners, and is constantly under Mindlink and Shared Senses, and her handler constantly berates her for trying to weasel out herself and whatever team they have from doing jobs the way their bosses want.
Eve, Team's fixer. Ex-Evo model, turned into club hopper and Novacoke dealer. Has a wide array of corporate contracts, and friends in all stripes of society who need people to get them out of trouble.
Lethice, enigmatic infrobroker. Whenever the team is stuck without a good plan or entry point, she can be bought to get them into the right direction. Usually they choose instead of her exorbitant fees, to add more objectives to their runs, usually making them a whole of a lot harder.
Eddy "The Wall" Fernandez, panic button. If the crew need either muscle or an emergency getaway when shit goes FUBAR, he comes sweeping to their rescue if they can afford him.

>>52249182
There are a plethora of bugs since I checked .44, one of which is that vampires are uncreatable, but banshees are, while adding seats to a drone breaks shit.

All crash it super hard.

>>52250996
'John Mars', an Ares executive who makes extra profit on the sly having weapons 'fall off the back of a truck' and otherwise engaging in grey and black market weapon deals with Ares product.

He's a charming professional who treats the run team well, enjoys the party gushing about the high-powered weapons they buy/the incidental massive complex-leveling explosions they cause, like needling his Company Men bodyguards in front of the runners, and always picks up the tab at pre and post-run lunch meetings.

I mostly introduced him to the group to see how they would react to a friendly, personable corporate agent, rather than a scheming, aloof, or duplicitous one. The players didn't bat an eye, so I guess it was less a curveball than I thought it was, but I have an admitted soft spot for the character and he's been the group's recurring arms dealer for a long time now.

>>52251137
>Alice, a child human with a bit of an uncomfortable life. A strange cult uses her as their outside contractor when hiring runners, and is constantly under Mindlink and Shared Senses, and her handler constantly berates her for trying to weasel out herself and whatever team they have from doing jobs the way their bosses want.

I'm surprised your runners haven't Noh'd her. Mine certainly would have.

>>52250847
Not a bug, friendo. The karma is treated as the first point spent in priority/STT, and then the free points are added.

Is a Troll MysAd with spirit summoning and posession gamebreaking?

>>52251974
What are you, a stand user?

>>52251974
I'm not sure whether this is still the case in 5th, but one thing that made possession-based traditions massively overpowering was an editor's fuckup; possession was not meant to be usable offensively on an unprepared vessel.

>>52252015
Wait, what? I want to posess myself for buffs.

>>52252085
That's the intent. It can be cool, it's a rarely used tradition style and iirc it's either roughly equal to or slightly weaker than a typical summoner.

Wait, does Invocation/Summon Great Form Spirit seriously require Ritual Spellcasting?

>>52250996
Our current fixer is a really fucking old elf woman who we call Grandma.
She's ice cold and would probably sell us to some corp for a couple nuyen but she's how we got into this whole shadowrunning thing.

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>>52251226
Why do you tell me such lies, anon?
>>52250998
Yeah, if you have a human parent there's still a chance you'll goblinise at puberty.
>>52251279
No it's wrong, that rule is only supposed to count your metatype minimum as 1, it's instead just starting from 1 and ignoring the points you've put into it. Looks like it was never coded properly, holdover from before 5e's priority fuckery.
>>52252085
Not really. Posession spirits don't have access to ITNW while posessing living forms in 5e, you need to summon them at a massive Force to get any real benefits to the attributes you care about unless you've got 1s across the board (And even then a Force 6 Spirit would only give you physcai attributes of 4).

Possession is still good, and a GM that doesn't know how to compensate for it will hate it, but it's difficult to break the game with it.
>>52252325
Yup. Great Forms ain't your grandpappy's spirits.

>>52252382
No, Yekka. Spending Karma to raise a Troll's Str from 5>6, and then spending points to raise it from 6>10 should be the same cost as raising it from 5>9 with points and then 9>10 with Karma, and that cost is 10 Karma.

>>52252423
Priority points are spent before karma.

>>52252480
No, Yekka.

>>52252561
What is this, International Attempt To Lie To Yekka Day? Spending your Priority Points is done in Step Two: Choose a Metatype. Spending your karma to improve your attributes isn't done until Step Nine: Final Touches. The fact that the optional rule wasn't doing that is irrespective of the actual rules.

If you'd like me to add another optional rule to proxy the existing behaviour where priority points are spent after karma then I can do that, but it's not RAW.

>>52252625
All steps of chargen happen simultaneously, the ordered list is simply for explaining it to new people.

A function like that would be a good idea, since it's how it's intended, and used.

>>52252642
Nigga are you serious? That is some red hot bullshit.

>>52252901
He's right, tho.

Otherwise the whole thing breaks down into a pile of steaming shit as you have to assign special points before you choose magic or resonance, and qualities (& other things) that increase your natural maximum are only available after you apply your attribute points. Among other wonderful little details.

>>52252945

While I admit you have a point on the qualities issue, that's just because its edited like garbage, there is still an order of operations and you cant spend karma before allocation attribute points.

>>52253003
Wrong.

>>52253030

Please provide a passage that actually sates, explicitly, that you are right, otherwise the existence of the steps in the character creation is evidence enough that there is an order of operations, and the small hiccups such as quality purchase and its potential relation to attribute points are nothing more than bad editing. And that they have bad editing is something that no one can deny.

>>52253030
Sorry mate, he's also got a point.

>>52253030
I've never seen that done on any character either. Can you back your claims up?

Isn't it then always correct to up your attributes from 1 to 2 with karma and let the expensive stuff bedone by priority points? That just doesn't seem right.

>>52253030
You absolutely do spend karma at the very end. You do the rest normally.

>>52253112
Yes, that's exactly how that works.

>>52253133
>You spend the karma of karmagen at the end of it
What did he mean by this?

>>52253164
>Yes, that's exactly how that works.
This is absolutely not how it works.

>>52253176
Anon, do Trolls, Orks, Elves, Dwarves, and everything other than humans pay the massively increased cost to raise their attributes, or does, say, a stat that starts at 5 cost the same to raise to 6 as one that starts at 1 does to raise to 2?

Because if you're saying they pay the more expensive one, then you're a faggot, and you're pretty clearly never played a game of Shadowrun.

>>52253193
Ofcourse they pay more. Qoute the rules that say otherwise.

>>52253210
Show me a game where the GM makes them pay it.

>>52253193

I'm pretty sure that's a widely accepted house rule, its one I use, but its a house rule all the same.

>>52253220
So you are saying we are right but there are many that houserule otherwise?

>>52253232
Can you show me a place where it's ever been used?

Because if not, then no, the rules don't say that.

The incredibly poorly printed and edited book might say it, but if it's never the case, then it may as well not exist.

>>52253193
Metatype bonuses being added later is a common houserule, it doesn't fucking mean you use build points after XP.

>>52253252
The games I GM have never used that rule. Not because i don't like that rule, I just haven't ever thought about that. I will consider it from now on.

>>52253164
Point Buy doesn't have Priority Points for that to be an issue.
>>52253193
A human that wanted to increase their strength to 6 would need to spend 100 Karma. A troll would need to pay 30. How is that not cheaper?

>>52253278
Because if he wants to increase it to his equivalent of 6, then he's paying several hundred, on top of already paying a ton for his race, being forced to pay double lifestyle costs, and just generally being a worthless pile of over-costed bullshit.

>>52253252

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I've never played a missions game, but wouldn't the every officially run missions game ever count for that?

>>52253287
Trolls being the worst metatype for that reason is a longstanding tradition.

>>52253287

Yeah, no one is arguing that trolls ironically get a troll sized shafting, nor are we saying that making a house rule to change that is badwrongfun, we just want you to know and accept that any change is in fact a house rule.

>>52253290
>Missions
>Mattering
Anon, I asked about games, not someone opening a portal to the elemental plane of disgust and sitting around a table listening to it.

>>52253302
It's a houserule in the sense that it's not printed in the book, but it's a rule that every single group follows because doing otherwise makes the game non-functional for anything other than Humans and Elves.

>>52253314

And yet it still technically applies, so I don't really know what to say now, you have no points left to refute.

>>52253323

Thank you, god, that's all I wanted to hear, we all know Shadowrun needs house rules to work but you always need to be honest about what you change.

Hrm. Here's a mystery for you; do the drone rules in Rigger 5 allow adding armour to a thing that doesn't already have it? If so, what is it limited by? My initial thought is either that you can't have it, or that the 0 = 0.5 rule applies. Not sure though.

>>52253717
Why would preexisting armour or that lack thereof affect purchasing of drone armour? Drones without armour can take up to bodx3 worth of armour without penalty, but can technically go as high as they have mod points x3, they just take penalties for doing so.

>>52253865
Nevermind, just had an issue trying to interpret one of the other dev's code, couldn't figure out what he was trying to do. All sorted now.

>>52253865

After re reading that section I am incorrect, the existing armour score is factored in to the math, so armour 0 can be taken to a max of 1.

>>52253865
>>52253717

Because armor is an attribute and listed under the attribute modification rules, and they can only go up to attribute x 2.

This means that drones with 0 armor are limited to 1 armor, since they use 0 = .5 rule

For what amounts to a Warrior Monk Troll with a focus on Unarmed and Smashing Blow, what would be a good martial art?

>>52254512
Jujutsu. You get Clinch and Throw, which is where you should start.

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>>52254512
https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/4m94d3/6000_words_on_martial_arts/

tl;dr Jujitsu and 52 Blocks are best girls.

What kind of person would your runner absolutely not work with? Let's assume that we already take out toxic and blood mages from that question

What kind of traits would a person need to have where you'd say that either they go or you go?

>>52254544
Don't suppose you remember where the doc is? It's a bit neater.

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>>52254856
Cyberpsychos. Black trenchcoat wearing Nottim Portents are automatically blacklisted. Edgy fuckers make the rest of us look bad.

>>52254856
Drakes, HMHVV Infected, Headcases, Corporate SINners, knife-ears. Not necessarily in that order.

>>52252382
>Yup. Great Forms ain't your grandpappy's spirits.

Aspected summoners can use summoning, can't they?

>>52255247
Yes? that's why they are called "Aspected 'summoners'"
Do you mean, can they summon great form spirits? To which I think the answer is no, you can only summon a spirit and use invocation to turn it into a great form

What's the comparitive diffuculty of running a SR game against, say, 5e? There doesn't ever seem to be anything on Gamefinder

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>>52255732
>diffuculty of running a SR game against, say, 5e
do you mean DnD 5e?
In that case, have pic related

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>>52249182
>Busy with worship.
>Saturday night

>>52255812
Jew mentor Spirit
General: +2 dice on negotiation tests related to money
Magicians: +2 dice on mental manipulation spells
Adepts: One free level of Authoritative Tone

Negative: Followers of ol' Hook-Nose love their shekels. They must make a Composure (3) test to not try to haggle for the most money, even if other rewards might be worth more.

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>>52255074
iirc it's in the pastebin somewhere

>>52255776
I did mean DnD, but as spicey and full of good advice that pic is, it doesnt answer my question regarding how the difficulty of GM'ing relates.

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>>52255273
They can contribute to the ritual, just not lead it.

Also, any GM who wouldn't let an aspected summoner substitute their Summoning skill for Ritual Spellcasting in the teamwork test for calling a Great Form Spirit is a faggot.

>>52255937
'for money' is too restrictive. A flat +2 Negotiation isn't going to break anything.

name it Greed and it'll be published

>>52256165
for payment and +4?
I pulled that whole block out of my ass

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>>52256196
No, +2 to a skill fits the general schema for mentor spirits, changing it serves no purpose.

if it satisfies your /pol/, you can see it extended to things like 'negotiating for support for Israel' and 'negotiating for your wife to get blacked'

>>52256246
I'm not even /pol/, just saw that spiderman post and just thought of it
I mostly corrected it because >>52256165 seemed to be saying the mentor would be too weak compared to the others

>>52256287
I didn't say it was too weak, just too restricted if you limit it to only deals with money.

>>52256331
Or you could make the bonus a flat +2 for any rolls that will result in direct monetary gain.

>>52256354
You're a shadowrunner. Your entire MO is 'doing things for monetary gain'.

>>52256410
"Direct monetary gain" being "right here and now" - not at the end of a job, but cash right here in your hand right now.

>>52256600
But that's even more restrictive that a generic bonus to negotiation tests for money. It means it cannot be applied to dealing with the Johnson during the meet to get better payment, but only trying to gouge him into cash up front.

>>52256600
>your idea of a greedy jew mentor spirit is someone who will fuck up a long term plan for immediate money gain
This is fucking retarded even by /pol/ery standards. Haggling works, but even that's a stretch.

>>52243392
There's the standard bread and butter for runners: A goon squad that will easily wipe the floor with them (8 enemies with assault rifles, smartlinks, and some combat drugs) sitting in cover; they have to use clever tactics for beating them.

That's not really a challenging fight. My advice is to throw awakened critters with lots of toughness, high armor-penetration ability, but overall low damage ; or coupled with a more clumsy but powerful enemy and a bunch of support groups.

There's always the singular cyberzombie.

Cheat. They can't tell what the stats are. Move them up/down depending on when they're having issues, and have the fight last long enough it feels challenging without being terrible. Use narration and read your players to keep the flow going. Don't even bother keeping track of enemy health, just number of enemies.

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>>52256953
>changing stats back and forth
>not tracking health

There are no words for the disgust. Go back to Fate, leave games that use mechanics to people with enough respect for the players to actually use them.

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Fresh stuff stolen from a /g/ thread

>>52256998
>leave games that use mechanics to people with enough respect for the players to actually use them.
>implying
Shadowrun has a massive case of "so many mechanics they end up contradicting themselves" and is famous for how many rules players are willing to just pretend don't exist for the sake of the setting.

>>52256998
Keeping track of the magic, combat, and hacking system all at once sounds like a pain. Building the encounter and layout of places and keeping track of where enemies are, where they're going, ensuring every player has a role, and keeping it fresh is time consuming enough.

Pass.

Is a flat 17 dodge dice still too small for a dodgy nigga adept? I'm so scared of being American and getting shot.

>>52257133
> Shadowrun has a massive case of "so many mechanics they end up contradicting themselves" and is famous for how many rules players are willing to just pretend don't exist for the sake of the setting.

You still cannot choose by yourself which rule to apply or not, those should be discussed as a group. Whenever some rules shift in battle in favor of the monsters, even if it is "stat points are static", you rob them of the possibility to better understand the world around them.

I'm not saying critters shouldn't have varying value. "+1 Body / -1 Reaction on this one" with a description of "that specimen seems a bit bigger and tougher" is perfectly fine.

But changes mid-fight?

>>52257700
Cont.

>>52257133
But I guess it's all a matter of "How sneaky you are", "How good a storyteller / GM you are" and "Whether they'll put up with your bullshit". I know I could (I won't, but I could), and I know a few GMs I would tolerate doing it.

So mileage will vary wildly.

>>52257765
Yeah, I admit that if I can tell the gm is fudging, I'll get frustrated because I know the fight is going to be almost entirely ruled by gm fiat.

As a gm I literally only ever fudged twice, once to ignore the first critical glitch a player had in a game because I think critfails are retarded, the other time was in D&D because I fucked up and made an encounter harder than intended by misreading a monster ability and then abusing it like a moron (I was, in my defense, 12)

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>>52257263
>Keeping track of the magic, combat, and hacking system all at once sounds like a pain

Then don't try and have an astral combat against projecting wagemages, a spider dataspiking devices, and a group of corpsec with H&Ks all at once.

If you can't build a multilevel encounter, then keep it simple. Don't cheat your players of the ability to know what the fuck is happening when the face's Fichetti manages drops one guy, but a long burst from a Raiden gets soaked by his colleague because you decided that the fight wasn't challenging enough.

The whole point of having rules is so that everyone is working from the same base of knowledge and predictable expectations. If you're too much of a faggot to count, then tell the players straight up that they're playing a freeform RP and they can burn 90% of their character sheet.

I'm re-reading Neuromancer, and that book aged like fine-wine.

Any other books that have a sr feel? Preferably closer to neuromancer than snow crash.

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>>52258589
Altered Carbon is a great one. First one (imo the best) is classic cyberpunk noir detective, the latter two go for a more military sci-fi feel.

Or just straight SR books, like House of the Sun

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>Character displaying 0/0 movement in chummer and other oddities
>Try to re-apply improvements to force recalculation
>Crashes

Well. Shit. This is entirely my fault for making a fucked up cheat-y character. Any way I can just force recalculation on movement?

>>52258683

Follow up: Newest version of chummer, found the problem (read as: I'm retarded)

If you have "Use Cyberleg stats for movement" and the character doesn't have cyberlegs, it shows as 0/0. Whoops.

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>>52259294
It's good to know, though; if you tell everyone in the group to use the same houserules, that could cause trouble for the chromeless plebs and their stupid meat-bits

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>>52259294
Oh. Oops. Sorry, fixed now.

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>>52259486

You're the people's champion, yekka.

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>>52259581
>people's champion
>getting support from police

Not in my Shadowrun

>>52259623
>implying yekka isn't supported by everyone

>>52259697
I miss trip autist anon who replied to every trip post

>>52259486

Had a quick question:

The spell creation used in chummer are from 4e, since we didn't get 5e spell creation rules, right?

>>52259778
yup.
Or at least if there are any in 5e you need a Perception (fuckhuge) check to find them

>>52259892
Perception (Bad Editing)

>>52259925
Or alternatively a Data Search(Errata) (lolnope, 10 minutes) extended test

>>52259970
You ever think that maybe there's a primitive AI running around the CGL host, munging on all the LaTEX docs?

>>52260166
CGL is actually a self-learning AI, only it's an easily influenced toddler who is a bit slow.

>>52260236
>AI Origins (Publishing)

>>52260340
Headcases aren't crazy, they just think that real life is based off of SR rules.

Why does Lofwyr hate Spinrad?

>>52260625
SR rules ARE crazy.

>>52260715
thatsthejoke.png

>>52260713
gary stus are each other's natural predator. There can ultimately only be one.

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>>52259581
Man, I wish Brink had been good.

>>52260819
Why must your hurt me this way, anon?

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>>52260819

We'll always have the art and music, at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpsJYFdJnk8

Plus, technically speaking it put us down the path of FPS with thinking-outside-the-box movement, leading to things like Titanfall.

>>52260737
I mean what has he done?

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>>52259778
There's a whisper of a murmur that the new magic book will have rules for it. I keep intending to pull the existing code out if only to make bamce stop tagging me every time someone mentions it, but I'm lazy.

>>52243030

To be fair. Kastle would had a kid with Kat and be having zero g sex in space as an astronaut if Aztlan didnt kidnap Kat. Dev makes up for all those lost years as a runner who spend a million Nuyen and pulling strings with the FMC to save her in a way that give a mega a middle finger.

Look on the bright side at least his reunion didnt end with finding Kat mutilated on an altar saying "Kill me..". Ten years of Running to find a corpse

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>mfw I realize a character could reasonably have a name that's just an emoji

Are there any good combinations that allow for a functional full-cyber-replacement character at chargen? Either sum2ten or karmabuild.

The way it's presented has so far made me gimp either the rp or mechanics to get it to work. It's like CGL either hate cyberskulls and torsos, or they suck at math.

>>52262463
Both. It's both, anon.

>>52262270

People do still speak out loud regularly. In theory they could supplement speech with AR, triggering an AR emoji instead of saying the character's name during conversation. However that's a hassle and an annoyance for the speaker to the point where they'd either give you a verbal nickname or just not talk about you at all.

It's like when Prince changed his name to that retarded squiggle. Yes, in theory everyone could have held up cards with that symbol on it during conversation, but it's a pain in the ass. Everyone apart from his entourage just called him Prince anyway.

>>52262580

Something like is functional and easy. And in conversation it's just "knife", but whenever it's in text it's

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>>52262604

Huh, 4chan doesn't do emojis: http://emojipedia.org/hocho/

>>52262463
A rank resources, Bio-compatibility, some Used bits, Adapsin and Restricted Gear and possibly Redliner if you want more numbers instead of having fifteen physical boxes before boosting human body.

Mixing the Adapsin and Biocompatiblity lets you can afford to get the full skull and two actual limbs used, which lets you armor up more.

Now, if the upgrading rules are in effect, then you're going to want to do some upgrading later on and put in a pain editor. Regardless of build the fact that you have 15 armor from limbs alone is going to give you a GREAT start on being a tank.

>>52262621
>4chan doesn't do emojis

And I thank God and Moot every day for that.

>>52262707
>Moot

who

>>52262707
>And I thank God and Moot every day for that.

That was redundant.

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>>52262463
Best method is to ask your GM whether the skull and torso count as limbs, and if you can get a cyberlimb package as a bundle. If not then it's a lot easier since you don't need to fuck around with strength optimisations on your head and torso and it's overall a bit cheaper than buying everything separately, but Shadowrun as a whole doesn't really support the full Robocop experience at player levels.
>>52262270
Honestly if a player tried to run that in my games the rest of the players would just call him hashtag or something.

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>>52262807
My family are Reformed Snacksites.

>>52262604
>Something like is functional and easy.

It's a pain in the ass that you're only doing to pander to some special snowflake's conceit.

>whenever it's in text

So I have to hunt down the correct emoji for this guy instead of just typing 'knife'?

What if the emoji is something complicated like "alien raising his eyebrow quizically while puffing on a pipe"? Am I going to say that out loud?

I'm telling you anon, people would just find the easy shortcut, and if the emoji-named character kicked up a fuss, he'd be treated like a spoiled child throwing a tantrum.

>>52262842
>Shadowrun as a whole doesn't really support the full Robocop experience at player levels.

Honestly that's a failure of the system that annoys me. Essence costs are too high, ware cost is extremely expensive, and in general it just doesn't compare to it's magical counterparts

.>>52262936
>"alien raising his eyebrow quizically while puffing on a pipe"

Just nickname him Ayy.

I'm looking for some advice on statting out the main antagonist that I have for my current campaign. I created him before I knew AI was actually a working thing in shadowrun but the basic concept is that he's a literal killing machine, as in android, that has downloaded most of his skills into himself, and can switch between groups after a few seconds pause. I haven't really had to roll for him yet, and the confrontation is still a ways off, but I don't know where to even begin on setting him up to be as effective as I've led them to believe he is, and that the players have built up in their mind

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Have any of you played Anarchy yet?
I ordered the book a few days ago as I'm really curious to try the Sixth World but there's no way my group would play standard SR.
Should this be in a separate thread?

>>52239337
Sounds fine to me.

Have you checked the 3rd ed book Target: Wastelands? It has a nice section on the Desert Wars. Nothing as specific as team compositions, but it has some good fluff.

>>52263122
I sure hope you don't expect a traditional boss battle.

>>52263337
Honestly, not really, as they learn more about him, since they don't currently know he's a machine, I assume that they're going to either find a way to get him to leave to somewhere else, so that he's out of their hair, and hopefully gets taken out by someone more competent, or find a way to distract/stun/confuse him long enough to fuck with his programming. Through rumors and some of his actions I made it apparent that he's out of their league in terms of killing things, but I don't want to cop out and have him just leave them alone or make him way too weak for what he's done mostly offscreen, though they have heard about it all.

The only roll I made as him, I jokingly picked up a whole shitload of dice and didn't bother to read the results, I was just doing it to make a point about a dumb decision they made

>>52263122
What do you actually want to do with the character? If he's supposed to just be a big looming force that the players never really encounter directly then you don't need to do much, just kill some NPCs onscreen.

If you want it to be capable of killing the players, just give it a bunch of Edge and a high dicepool.

>>52263483
Well like I said above your post, I do intend for their to be a confrontation at the finale of the campaign, but I both don't want him to be a pushover or to be so strong that they don't stand a chance if they choose to go hostile. The only times I have him showing up directly for the players to see are/were when he first confronted them because he and two players unknowingly share their backgrounds, incidentally while they were doing their own thing, in an upcoming run where he puts aside his animosity to help in a bad situation for both parties, and the final confrontation. I want the players to have the option of killing him if they want to, especially since the last antagonist they went against they didn't tell me they wanted to kill him until they were doing it, though I had already mostly statted him luckily.

>>52263788
>I both don't want him to be a pushover or to be so strong that they don't stand a chance

Really hard to pull off in Shadowrun.

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so what all is in that Seattle Box Set for 5e? Is there anything there that isn't already covered in Seattle 2072?

>>52263993
No not really. slight updates to the timeline, but nothing really of note aside from the Underground being legitimized.

>>52245633
DRM documents? I take it back, CGL really does love cyberpunk.

>>52265587
They're basically a microcorps

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>>52265587
It's not really much, there's a basic level of DRM protection on the PDF itself that's easily cracked by websites like smallpdf and then watermark objects on each page. Like most locks, it's good enough to keep a man honest.

>>52266237
>Like most locks, it's good enough to keep a man honest.
So long as that man isn't named Loren Coleman

>>52266661
Who locks the locksmith?

>>52266784
I dunno, Coast Guard?

Mana Barriers in the astral prevent astral perception into them, right?

>>52266784
his mistress

>>52267422
They just apply a 'visual' penalty equal to the force. So if it's from a strong enough source (say somebody spent 26 reagents on a temporary lodge), it's effectively the same as being unable to see through it.

>>52236159
Kill his character permanently.

>>52267465

Is there a way to do both a physical version that blocks spells and an astral version that blocks sight?

Is that two separate barriers?

>>52266661
>Loren Coleman
>a good man
Pick one.

>>52267931
It depends on the source. The mana barrier spell only puts a barrier in one plane at a time. So you'd need to put one in the Astral plane with one casting (and it's clearly visible there) and another to put one in the Physical plane (and it's invisible here if you can't see the Astral).

But the mana barriers created by the Circle of Protection ritual, Ward ritual, and an active magical Lodge are in both planes by default. So they impede spells and spirits on both planes, give some astral sight protection, and tend to last a bit.

Any tips for someone who has never DM'd before or even played shadowrun and is planning to DM a game?

>>52268265

Handwave a bunch of shit

Don't let rules bog down fun

If you have players who normally powergame to fuck and back, check their characters

>>52268265
For encounters: Pre-roll four turns of initiative for every NPC, you will rarely need more than that.

The statblocks from the CRB for NPC's are insightfull, if you want do use them as Base for individual encounters.
Otherwise just write down:Limits, Health, Defense pool, Armor, Relevant skillpools for the encounter and maybe perception, commlink device rating and Weapon values together with attack pool.
That should cover 90 % of encounter situations. Add or remove things depending on the tactic your group prefers (and you really think you need it, otherwise most encounters have a dicepool of 5-9)

>>52267931
>>52268068
Also remember that it's filthy cheap to put up those ritual barriers, even semi-successfull ganger can afford one.

Can you have a non-Qi Focus as a Tattoo?

>>52269982
>TATTOO MAGIC >>SG 131
>The Tattoo Magic technique can be purchased for 5 Karma and learned in two weeks, after which the magician can keep magic viable through tattooing art. This is not a separate skill, but an enhancement to other skills and metamagics. Using the Artifcing skill, the magician can create qi and other foci as tattoos.
>With contractual rituals, Tattoo Magic can be used on mundanes and Awakened alike to reinforce the magical connection and consequences of breaking said magical contract (the group bond). When this is combined with the Quickening and Anchoring metamagics, a magician can tattoo such spells onto a subject.

>>52269982
The only 'class' that cannot be tattoos is (obviously) Weapon Foci.

>>52270032
>Not tattooing some sicknasty fucking markings along your arms/legs and infusing them as weapon foci

>>52270053
Well, you could tattoo your knuckles (or whatever parts of your body you strike with) to turn them into an Unarmed Combat Focus, sure.

What was the name of that one weapon focus that can be attuned to mundanes? Anyone got any info on it?

>>52262463
Well, not at CharGen, but 4e had Jarheads. Basically the GitS treatment. You pay a few 100000 nuyen (can't remember the price currently) and let your brain get put in a specialized case, which reduces your essence to 0.1
Instead of a meat body you would use drones

>>52263229
We had discussed this a million times
No it's not worth it.
It isn't rules-light it's rules-lighter
Many things aren't in there
Don't get it

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>>52270122
>Unarmed Combat Focus

Only if the GM allows you to wave the 'weapon foci must be melee weapons' requirement.

>>52270802
That's the question, isn't it? Can hands and feet be considered weapons in their own right?

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>>52270842
>A weapon focus always has, unsurprisingly, the form of a melee weapon.

It's not a question at all. Melee weapons are a distinct entity in SR, no matter how many points you have in Unarmed. You can't make a limb a weapon focus any more than you could install a personalized grip to make you kick more accurately.

>>52270867
>It's not a question at all
No, it isn't.

>Using the Artifcing skill, the magician can create qi and other foci as tattoos.

>>52270867
And yet, a cyberlimb or razors/blades/spurs implanted straight in the flesh can be.

>>52270903
Yes, they can create other foci, like bashing or power foci
But not weapon foci

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>>52270933
Because those are melee weapons, named 'cyber melee weapons'.

>>52270976
Cyberlimbs are as much melee weapons as natural limbs.

>>52270976
Merely that I fail to see the difference beyond alloying some orichalchium with the chrome or mixing some with the tattoo ink; the eventual result is the same. In the end, you still cast fist at someone's face.

>>52270993
Except they're not. As I pointed out, they're explicitly called 'cyber melee weapons' to make it clear they are weapons.

The cybernetic equivalent to a natural limb is a cyberlimb, not a cyberspur.

>>52271030
Cyber melee weapons are called cyber melee weapons. That's a conversation you can have with >>52270933, yourself, or whatever.

I'm talking about limbs.

>>52271022
The difference is that the specific rule that Weapon Foci are ALWAYS melee weapons is stronger than the general rule that foci can be made into tattoos.

If it helps, consider that weapon foci are their own thing; while other foci are attuned to your aura to boost your own magical abilities (spellcasting/summoning/enchanting, metamagics and adept powers) weapon foci grant the unique ability to strike astral forms. The magics that make a weapon foci can allow an item to hit astral beings, but can't make your aura interact with the astral directly.

>>52271053
Congrats, you are still missing the point. Natural limbs are not melee weapons. Cyberlimbs are not melee weapons. Cyber implant weapons are melee weapons. The first two are not melee weapons, so they cannot be weapon foci. The last one is a melee weapon, so it can be a weapon foci.

>>52271130
Shadowrun: The only game where you can actually argue about whether or not a fist is a melee weapon.

Shadowrun is a fucking mess

>>52271130
Someone disagreeing with you is not necessarily missing the point.

Along with whoever else posted, I don't agree on your interpretation of tattoo magic, nor limbs.

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>>52271185
You haven't put forth any argument about why cyberlimbs count as melee weapons. If you have something, I'd love to hear it, otherwise it just sounds like you don't understand what's being said.

If you want to make a cyberlimb into foci of almost any kind, go for it. It's mentioned in 4e FAQ that there are cyberlimb foci and I can't think of anything in 5e that disallows it (though I will say that it would require the Tattoo (Scrimshaw?) Metamagic because it's part of your aura). But I see no reason why your arm is a melee weapon. You can hit people with it, but you can hit people with anything, that doesn't make it a melee weapon.

>>52271224
Is it used for combat?

Does it do damage?

Is it used in melee?

Yes? Congrats, it's a melee weapon.

>>52271224
Out of curiosity, how do you feel about bioware natural weapon foci?

>>52271224
>you can hit people with anything, that doesn't make it a melee weapon
Actually, it does. Improvised Melee Weapon.

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>>52271277
pic related. SR has rules about what is and is not a weapon. That's like saying a cyberdeck is a melee weapon, because you can bonk someone on the head with it.

>>52271300
When I'm thinking about cyberimplant weapons, I think about the enchanter taking the piece of metal, turning it into a weapon focus, then the surgeon putting it into the body and allowing the subject to attune to this new aura touching their aura.

My understanding of bioware weapons is that they are grown in the body; they may be partially created before they're implanted, but they become a living part of you, able to be healed through natural processes and alive in the same way that teeth are alive.

With that in mind, I'd say no dice. You could have a tattoo focus on them, but not turn them into a weapon focus.

>>52271343
I thought about mentioning Improvised Melee Weapons, but I didn't want to bog down the post. Improvised Melee are rules for treating things as weapons for the purposes of combat. They aren't melee weapons themselves. They are 'items that can be used, however awkwardly, to inflict damage but are not designed for combat'. Just because you can use something as a weapon in melee, doesn't make it a melee weapon, if you follow me. It's the same thing as fists - you can punch someone, sure, but that doesn't mean that under the rules your whole body is treated as a melee weapon.

>>52271406
>My understanding of bioware weapons is that they are grown in the body
Then you only have a partial understanding of the range of ways bioware can be created. Also an incomplete concept of the range of things bioware can cover, if you're limiting conversation to flesh. Bone, teeth, etc are also available options.

>>52271480
While I'm thinking about it; at what point does something become non-viable for becoming a focus? Do you have to kill a plant to make a foci out of it?

>>52271480
Teeth were mentioned, though in hindsight I could have been clearer about the fact that I know they are a kind of bioware weapon (as are stings and other hard objects). At no point did I say that flesh alone was the only option for bioweapons.

My understanding of bioware implantation was that it was grown partially outside the body, but that further growth continued inside the body once it was implanted to get everything properly suited to your body, and that element (combining it with your living aura and incorporating it into your form) is what led to the lessened impact. If you're saying that you could grow (for example) claws entirely on their own, then stick them into the hand, then I would like to know how that's any different from hand razors for your Essence integrity if you're still putting a fully-formed foreign object (whether it's made of bone or metal) into your body.

>>52271490
>Do you have to kill a plant to make a foci out of it?

Unless you know how to tattoo a plant, yes. Foci have their own aura and astral form, like living beings. Tattoos are the only way I know of to make a living thing into a foci as well (though attuned animals with the proper rituals let you replicate some foci-like effects).

>>52271604
So, given I don't agree with any of your interpretations, can safely assume you aren't going to agree with mine, and there's no middle ground ... what's left to draw out discussion/argument more interesting than going to sleep?

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>>52271668
The fact that it's 11AM where I am and nobody wants to talk about Scion?

4e question here: why would you EVER want to take the Multi-Strike maneuver? (Martial Arts Maneuvers from Arsenal) Like, if it gave you +1 to each split dice pool, that'd be one thing - but only +1 to your TOTAL dice pool BEFORE splitting it?

Is there something I'm missing, or is it as shit as it sounds?

>>52271693
You know what would cheer you up?
Fighting some people in gladiatorial deathmatches.

>>52271707
t. Azzie

How do you make a Tachikoma-type rigger in SR5? I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing, but I want to make a rigger.

What do I need for this? All content available.

>>52271775
Been a while since this dream got crushed in /srg/.

Short version- you can't make a spider tankbot. There's no good walking drones of sufficient size, and adding legs to something else makes it super slow.

>>52271775
Core rules, Rigger 5.0, and alcohol to manage the dissapointment.

>>52271800
Wouldn't the Control Rig's speedboost be applied after the walker mode, thus giving it a somewhat less completely dildos speed?

What if you made a character who is waking up from a 3 year long coma and lived back in 4th edition and is very annoyed about not being able to hack Icarus Station from a commlink?

What do you guys suggest for rehab

I'm craving for a game so bad rn

>>52271870
You could fire up Shadowrun Returns if it's really bad

>>52271870
Dragonfall, Hong Kong, then do Antumbra on DF and Caldecott Caper on HK.

>>52271870
Start GMing. It's what I did.

>>52272036
>Start GMing. It's what I did.
The sad truth
Thankfully my players haven't figured out yet that half the friendly NPCs they meet are player characters I didn't get a chance to play ;-;

For what builds is going 'ware a good idea?

>>52272036
I'm already doing it but i need more

>>52272100
Unless having 6 magic matters a lot to you, every build should have as much ware as finances allows.

>>52272140
Let's say I'm playing a very long-term, high powered campaign and have the spare karma to initiate 5 times and keep my magic or resonance at 6 while drowning in ware.

Would you do it, anons?

>>52271160
Cyber fists can also be throwing weapons, how good I am unsure but it can be done.

>>52272171
One point of ware.

>>52272140
I would still be wary of shoving too much ware in, vampires are a thing.

>>52272374
>vampires are a thing.
Don't they prefer high essence targets over my 0,85?

>>52272374
vampires have to immobilize you

What fucked up stuff do you need to do to get the wanted negative quality? kill a bunch of innocents, steal some important prototypes from a corp?
I'm trying to come up with something for my character but everything I can think of seems pretty normal for a shadowrunner.

>>52272805
Kill someone important, whose family/partners/... will have both the means and the motive to put money on the table to get your ass blasted in revenge.

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>>52271775
>>52271822
>>52271801
>>52271800

Best tip I have is "Talk to your GM about your idea."

The world of shadowrun is vaster than what the books cover, I'm sure there's a single A corp somewhere that develloped a prototype or something and it never got on the market because it's fucking stupid

I wanted to have dog-drones, I asked my GM and he made up an Ares variant of the Doberman that had legs and shit, changed the handling and speed and voila.

Yo, Yekka, do you happen to know the source on Prime Runners getting 35 Positive/Negative points for qualities? The CRB implies it in the example, but doesn't actually outright state it, and I've got a group that's unsure if it's the proper RAW.

Like, it makes SENSE, but this is CGL we're talking about here. Something making sense is, regrettably, also something that means there's probably some dumbshit errata somewhere.

>>52273443
64, SR5

>>52272438
More than just that, they have to have you immobile, conscious, feeling a strong emotion focused on them, and will take a full minute minimum.

And the needed successes to eat a point of Essence are (10-Essence), so it'll take longer if you're chromed up. Perhaps you could even have something rigged up to interfere with one of the conditions needed.

>>52273819
>Be cybered to .01 essence
>Have no emotion left in you
>Vampire tries to eat you, tries to woo you so he can chew on you
>I am roboman and cannot feel

the qtest romance ever

>>52270802
Okay, what the fuck does he do in that webm? I can't follow it.

>>52274502
Twirls his staff, lets it go and kicks the bottle from the dummy's head while it spins in the air passing his leg through the staff's arc without touching it, the catch the staff again.

NEW THREAD CHUMMERS:
>>52275157
>>52275157