Are transgender people considered heretics in Warhammer 40k

>>52223222
Sounds like something the Nobles would get into.

Sounds like something they wouldn't give two shits about in the Imperial Guard until you correct the Commissar on your proper pronouns, then he shoots you.

As neither side can really cite any sources other than maybe slaneesh it's not worth having an argument over

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There's a million worlds with a million cultures each.

You're both right, and you're both wrong.

>>52223239

Eh I figured transgender people would be considered Slaaneshi add fiends in the eyes of the imperium. Cause it sounds like some Slaanesh level of insanity.

>>52223222
The Imperium does not actually give a shit at all, so long as the tithe is paid.
Any and all such questions regarding cultural norms are the sole prospect of each individual world, not Imperial edict.

The Imperium's opinions on the common citizen boils down to to things:
>do they worship the Emperor
>do they pay taxes/tithes/mandatory service
Anything else is superfluous. What pronouns you choose to use is between you and your planetary governor.

>>52223252
Stop trying to gaslight, OP.

>>52223264

Wat.

>>52223222
They would almost certainly be considered as exotic anomalies. You'd probably only find trannies in sketchy lho bars in hive cities. Since the Imperium is moddled after a culturally medieval society in a Sci-Fi setting, it's safe to say that they would be shunned.

That other anon is right though, nobles usually live lives of decadence and sex, so crossdressing is probably common. However, this is the path to Slaneshi heresy, so tread lightly.

In Horus Heresy novels, homosexuals exist and no one gives a shit. I assume the same applies to trans people too.

Most places conscript regardless of gender as well so it's really irrelevant.

I think they have bigger fish to fry.

Now, if you're a super slutty trap who wants to fuck everything that moves, that's a Slaaneshi thing but if you're just a lady who wants to be a dude and shoot xenos, that's probably fine.

Nobody gives a fuck OP take this agenda faggotry back to /pol/ or /lgbt/

>>52223222

All things considered, medical and even psychiatric treatment in 40k is significantly more advanced than modern standards. If you have the money, you could probably get something close to 100%-effective gender-reassignment surgery, complete with vat-grown organs.

That said, they've probably got some level of gene therapy or medicine to just stop the dysphoria from manifesting in the first place, which is both significantly easier and significantly more effective.

>>52223289
I've seen one of the Commissar Cain series have lesbians included too and folks in the imperium gave zero fucks about it.

>>52223222
Ask Dave King...I mean, sorry it's Delany King now. S/he's got a lot to say about trans people in the 41st millenium

http://kingsminis.blogspot.com.au/2017/03/roadmap-for-games-workshop-to-fix-it.html

>>52223302
^THIS

>>52223315

Sorry but I must admit, /tg/ seems to be more reasonable and less hostile than Tumblr when it comes to this stuff in 40k. This is pretty nice.

>>52223283
As an aside that has little to do with the main topic, it's somewhat clever how the chaos gods are lined up and how the empire works:

Squalor and poverty mean that the working class citizen, be it a factory worker in a forge world, a every joe doing city jobs in a imperial world or a peasant in an agriworld, will likely have a short life cut even shorter by diseases. And if they rely on esoteric/mystic rituals as supertitions to try and cure it, there's a chance they won't work and the ones that will are likely nurgle related.

Nobles live in decadent lifestyles that are a slip away from leading to cults of pleasure, obsession with perfection in their hobbies, drug use, cruelty...All sorts of things linked to Slaanesh. He/She is the deity for excess, which is a luxury only few can afford to have, not just in money but time.

Tired of this oppressive system and want to change it or overthrow it? You are likely to caught Tzeench's eyes, which will eventually lead you into getting fucked once you are done being a pawn in his games.

Give up political reform and let rage alone dictate your actions? Welcome to Khorne.

Slave under your planetary governor without complaining and you may live long enough to die of old age at 40, or when the next wave of daemons/xenos arrive. That if you don't get drafted into the guard and given a lasgun to face Necrons light years away from your homeland. Assuming you don't get eaten by daemons in the journey there since all travels must go through warp, which is just a funny world for 'Hell, but lovecraftian horrors in technicolour instead of red men with horns.'

>>52223222
"Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because—what with trolls and dwarfs and so on—speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green."

Given the problems the Imperium has with Daemons, Xenos and Heretics I suspect the petty divisions that afflict the contemporary world are the least of their worries.
(individual societies may vary)

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>>52223315
>tranny hive-gangers with stolen implants and back-alley surgical mods

>>52223222
Show me in the doll which sexual organs you secretly believe you shouldn't have.

That's some massive projection, op. Have you considered therapy? Or suicide?

>>52223222
>I just assume they either fix them or if they are not fixed beyond repair, then they get killed on the spot.
One can hope.

>>52223353
I feel like /tg/ is relatively less hostile about this shit in general unless it's brought up with regards to politics.
Rolling dice in basements pretending to be someone they're not and/or hanging out with some of the most publicly scorned elements of society could make someone rather apathetic to people's sexuality and gender. Speaking for myself, I don't give a shit about your genitals, what you think of your genitals and who you touch genitals with. Life is a shitty modern d20 LARP anyway.

>>52223404
Isn't everyone gonna point to the genital region of the doll, and assuming it's a regular doll, it wouldn't be clear if they mean penis or vagina...Your test seem flawed.

>>52223404
Looks like you might be the one projecting here. I'm just asking a question about lore buddy.

>>52223222
>How would the imperium handle these folks?
There's one Inquisitor who's so confident that trans people are heretics, and another Inquisitor so confident that trans people are just an odd wrinkle of Humanity, that they're willing to wage literal war against one another.

Squads of Acolytes in dark corners of hive worlds, shooting each other over whether or not it's okay to suffer chicks with dicks and bros with tits to live.

Because Warhammer 40K is a dystopian *parody,* and was never meant to be taken seriously.

But I can totally see Sisters of Battle as strict TERFs

>>52223353
Dysphoria is a brain thing that basically tells you your body, particularly your sex-specific characteristics, feel wrong. There's some evidence to suggest it's a brain chemistry and/or brain development issue, with the brains of those who have the condition showing neurological patterns somewhat like a hybrid between the male and female average. Reassignment surgery started as a thing because we had and still have no way to target the brain to fix this yet.

Unfortunately, the current political climate has us treating transgenders like homosexuals instead of, say, schizophrenics, who likewise shouldn't be stigmatized but should be recognized as holding a legitimate and often debilitating medical condition that severely affects their perception and requires proper treatment.

>>52223283
>this is the path to Slaneshi heresy
It's not at all, unless you take it to almost superhuman extremes.
>>52223353
Because most people on /tg/ who follow 40k already know OP is absolutely nonsequitor; it doesn't matter in the slightest, or mean a goddamn thing to anyone that MATTERS.
Sure, an individual culture on an individual world could worship someone born intersex as having the blessing of the Emperor for experiencing both parts of his beauticience, or burn them at the stake as a mutant. Point is, in the overarching 40k narrative, it is meaningless, and is regarded precisely as such.
The only time it comes up is the same issue as "female marines": trying to troll or start shit in a situation where it doesn't actually matter for a number of logical in-setting reasons.

>>52223384

It would be nice to think that, but 40k is supposed to be the worst setting imaginable. We know that rich people hunt poor people for sport, and people from the underhive areas are treated as mutants. On barbaric and feudal worlds, there's constant conflict between different tribes. You've got holy wars between different branches of the imperial faith, too.

Some imperial worlds are nice places to live, with advanced medicine and functional societies. But I figure in a lot of places, anyone who's different gets shanked. Even if "different" means "does not wear a massive feather headdress and thirteen sanctified genital piercings, as all normal right-thinking people do."

>>52223333
In one of the newer books Comissar Yarrick is implied to be a homosexual too. Tolerance of gays while still having an aggresively medieval society is just one more of the Imperium's many contradictions.

Nice quads btw.

>>52223436
It's a lore question that isn't approached at any time outside of broad strokes, just like every other pointed cultural issue in the setting.
The only thing universally covered is the Imperial Cult, which only covers Emperor worship.

>>52223436
Oh, ok.

ARE THERE ELEFANTS IN 40K?

WAS THE RIEMANN CONJECTURE SOLVED IN 40K?

DOES THE EMPEROR PREFER REI OR ASUKA?

CAN ALL ELDAR FELLATE THEMSELVES?

See, I can ask fucking pointless questions as well.

>>52223445
Genuine question and not trolling at all: Assuming that we had some way to make gender reassignment surgery a more effective reality, and easier to get done, meaning you become indistinguishable from someone born on the sex you were reassigned as; And assuming that someone who is otherwise in plain use of their mental faculties and not afflicted by any other mental issue, simply decides they wish to become the opposite sex: Is that a problem? And if so, why?

Is there any argument that doesn't patronize the person undergoing the sex change that can be made to say that's harmful for society?

>>52223487
Yes
Yes
Teh Rei
Obviously, it's how they Slaaneshed.

>>52223487
Sounds like you need to tell me who touched you on the doll.

>>52223254
This. It varies from planet to planet. Planetary governors are given carte Blanche to rule their domain as they see fit. You have tyrants to ethical rulers, republics to autocracies and all the various human cultures that are or could be. All the emperor asks is for ultimate loyalty to him, the species, and that you do your part by providing what you and your planet can bear in form of a tithe.

>>52223222
The whole identity thing is more or less a luxury issue. If your chosen population, planet, or what have you, do in fact have the time, energy, and resources to reflect on themselves and their lives, then some would probably end pursuing reassignment surgery. In the grim darkness of the far future, that's a pretty big if.

>>52223465
yeah sure on some (in fact probably most) worlds if you're divergent in any way you're probably not going to have a good time, but I don't think the Imperium itself cares. The Arbites and Inquisition have better things to do with their time

>>52223487
Misato.

>>52223243
This.

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>>52223222
A large portion of the Imperium is maintained by an underclass of lobotomised biomechanical horrors.
It's like, sure, this person got a sex change. But the next person has tracks instead of legs, had one brain hemisphere replaced with a cogitator and eats nutrient slurry through a tube.

The official imperium administration has significantly more important things to give a shit about.

That cultural stuff is down to individual planets. I really doubt it would matter except on the most backwards and agrarian of worlds. The Imperial Creed has never mentioned it and I can recall a single female lesbian inquisitor (although thats of course someone with a great deal of privilege).

>>52223243
^This essentially. It tends to be the correct answer to many questions about life in the Imperium.

You'll have worlds where nobody bats an eye if you tell them you're trans. Then you'll have worlds where they'll burn you alive in the belief that you're a heretic. And probably worlds that lie somewhere in between in terms of response.

On a galactic scale I don't imagine the Imperium cares very much about something so trivial. Provided it doesn't start to look too Slaaneshi, you should be fine. So long as you've got the proper paperwork. That's one issue I could imagine transgenders running into is saying you're one gender but then official records showing you (or at least who you're claiming to be) as the other gender.

>>52223564
Yeah. I imagine only on feral or agri world it would really be looked down on since ensuring generational continuity is imperative for survival.' Individuals that eschew their ability to reproduce for the sake of pure personal preference would probably be considered a threat to the group.

Other than that, I imagine it plain varies from being considered flesh cult heresy on pious worlds to common or unimportant on wealthy worlds.

As with most things, generally the Imperium doesn't give a shit because there's Tyranids eating planets, Eldar trolling, Orks rampaging for their own entertainment, and Chaos fucking everything up.

If you're more concerned about how somebody sees him/herself and other people's opinion on that than with avoiding extinction, you need check your priorities.

>>52223489

Personally, I'd have no issue with anyone who wanted getting 100% seamless sex-reassignment surgery whenever and however often they wanted, regardless of whether or not they had dysphoria but with a few caveats: insurance only covering medically-relevant cases being is the big one.

You're skirting transhumanism with that kind of proposal, though, since by the time we have perfect sex change we'll also have extensive body modification available and you know the people getting lip plates or forked tongues in the here-and-now will be getting far more outlandish things grafted onto them.

Additionally, a number of people who get the current reassignment surgery end up regretting it, just like some people who start transitioning decide to stop. It may have to do with dissatisfaction over the effectiveness of the surgery itself or just the fact that the procedure does not actually stop the root cause of the dysphoria, but either way it's basically a one-way trip and now you can't go back. There's a reason hormones and surgeries tend to be held behind the "gatekeepers" of modern medical and psychiatric care, because theyhave the potential to royally and irreparably fuck you up.

Which is why I continue to advocate more research into identifying the brain issue causing dysphoria, then finding how to target it and how to screen for it if possible.

>>52223222

40k Imperium of Man is supposed to be a dystopian dying culture, a shadow of its self.

We know from history when a culture is in decline is becomes more predisposed to transgenderism and other blurring of the lines of previously asserted norms. Both Greece and Rome, and the colonial west began to display androgynous forms as the ideal of beauty just before they collapsed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8BRdwgPChQ

>>52223841

So I might add in conclusion, that transgenderism would probably exist in the at least the decadent echelons of Human society and more so within the more prosperous planets.

>>52223856
That seems reasonable anon.

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They've cured it by then

>>52223222
Cultural conceptions of gender vary so wildly across the history and geography of just our one planet that it's totally absurd to assume that the millions of planets which make up the Imperium of Man would have a single, united response to the idea of people whose physical sex doesn't match their gender, any more than they'd have a united response to people of the same gender having sexual relations, or even a united idea of what constitutes "sex" (there have been eras in the West when oral was a criminal act, for fuck's sake).

Also, come on, seriously. "Fix" them? Don't be a shithead, OP.

>>52223841
Get this agendafaggotry out of here

>>52223910
Couldn't find a better term for it. Not being a shit head.

>low tier /pol/ bait question
Get out

>>52223952
Nope.

>>52223222
What would medieval opinion on transgenderism be?
Probably not what you would expect. They wouldn't have an opinion on a concept that doesn't exist for them. The idea would be so strange and foreign I doubt that even people who are transgendered in that universe understand their own feelings. They likely would not know what to do with themselves let alone who to talk to.

>>52223910
I'm sure most real trannies would like their dysphoria fixed, anon. It's an unpleasant brain problem.

>>52223473
>In one of the newer books Comissar Yarrick is implied to be a homosexual too.
Could you elaborate.

>>52223222
Yes, Slaneesh

>>52224048
That I do indeed acknowledge. Shit understandably sucks.

>>52223489
Yes it's a problem because you're enabling them rather than giving them real therapy. Suicide rates for transsexuals go up after gender reassignment.

>>52223633
Except deviant and libertine behavior directly leads to people embracing chaos?

>>52224184
because treating a symptom rather than the cause does not actually fix the problem

>>52224247
You think Slaanesh is going to notice you because you fap do dickgirls? It's the God of Excess, not the god of doing something moderately outside the norm alone in your basement.

>>52223613
As far as Terra and most of the inquisition really cares it's "do you hail emperor?" And that's about the end of it

>>52224247
>Except deviant and libertine behavior directly leads to people embracing chaos?
Only if it's taken to the absolute limit in all regards.
People who don't know 40k think Slaanesh is about sex.
People who know 40k understand Slaanesh is excess in any possible fashion, so long as it outstrips all else, be it hedonism, gluttony, excellence at the arts, even battle (which is another reason Slaanesh and Khorne butt heads, a champion of Khorne could easily be a champion of Slaanesh for their excess in bloodshed).

What does Emperor worship actually look like on the average imperial world? Is it a church sermon? A lecture? Hymns followed by blood sacrifice to sanctify the place further?

>>52224184
>Suicide rates for transsexuals go up after gender reassignment.

That seems suspect.

That seems very suspect. In fact, last I checked, that was straight up wrong.

>>52224308
I long got sick of the contradicting info from every source I got on these matters myself, nobody has a fucking clue how to deal with this because each case is different, nobody wants to make an individualized therapy for these people and just wants the simplest lump sum solution which won't work on this

>>52224308
It is. It's repeated a lot, though, because someone read a paper, misinterpreted it, and now every person with an anti-trans agenda holds it up the way antivaxxers do Wakefield's garbage.

>>52224351
Blegg, I'm neither pool nor anti anything like this on principal of it being related to science, we cannot allow scientific matters to be bogged down by agendas of any direction

>>52223910
>Fix them is wrong
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness according to every reputable medical source

>>52224294
Mostly the same way worship happened before the Imperium showed up. The Ecclesiarchy takes a look at it, and if it's not heretical, they just go and tell the populace that they were actually worshipping the Emperor all the time.
And if you don't think so, you can have a stern talk with the fanatically religious nun, packing a flamer, or if it just so happens, a 7 feet tall superman in powerarmour with a gun that shoots miniature rockets. Your choice, really.

Human life has so little value in the 40k universe that there's no way someone's getting a fake dick and/or vag

Unless you fall to slaanesh and get corrupted, that's the only way.

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Mechanicum guys basically go from male/female to walking mechanical monstrosity with no organs at all

I doubt they care about sex changes

>>52224273
>>52224279

You don't seem to understand how it works, you start doing something out of the ordinary and you will eventually want more and more and more, this is how the chaos corruption works and why it is so undetectable you don't notice it before it's too late, they don't stop at a certain point but keep going further because the chaos influence already got them.

Think of irl people who do heavy drugs and seek more and more, add in omniscent space magic-dark-influence that makes that worse by x100000 times, that's why chaos is a threat.

>>52224308
I doubt it.
Trannies are mentally fucked.
Devastating unnecessary surgery isn't actually going to fix the problem.

>>52223222
Depends on the planet. The Imperium doesn't care as long as you can hold a gun.

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>>52223222
As long as you're willing to die for the Emperor the Imperium at large won't give a fuck. Also, I want to fuck a sister

>>52223333
Yeah, lesbians aren't an uncommon sight in the fluff. Inquisitorial Representative Marguerethe Wienand M32K from The Beast Arises novels is explicitly stated to have had a romantic relationship with her female Acolyte bodyguard.

Then again, she was a High Lord of Terra and an Inquisitor, so no one except another Inquisitor was going to ask/care about whether Wienand likes dick or pussy. Drakan Vangorich would know, but only because he's the Imperium's NSA/CIA guy and it was his job to know EVERYTHING about everyone in order to kill them more effectively.

My gut says that lesbians, gays and bisexuals are relatively accepted in society. Unless what they do in the bedroom starts affecting their productivity, the Commissar/Adeptus Arbites don't care one iota.

Transgender people... probably are either ignored for the most part (and they don't really bother with this first world problems crap of preferred pronouns because sex change operations/sexual reassignment surgery in 40k are most likely a lot more effective when it comes to a transperson being 'passable' as their desired gender) unless they start switching back and forth between genders in order to experience more and more pleasure, because that's something which will get Slaanesh's attention.

Only situations I can clearly think of where transpeople might get told to fuck off via bolter round is a FtM transperson trying to join the Space Marines or a MtF trying to join the Sisters of Battle.

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>>52224683
>tfw Orks don't have to worry about this relationship/sexual orientation nonsense
Being walking space fungi does have its benefits.

>>52224687
>FtM transperson trying to join the Space Marines
They'd have to transition before puberty in that case, and it would mean certain death from implant rejection.

>MtF trying to join the Sisters of Battle.
Sisters are raised from birth by the Schola Progenium, so I doubt it.

>>52223222
Hard to say.
The only even close in the fluff wouod be slaneeshi cults, but this doesn't really mean that it's outlawed.

Most likely, as many other people have said, it would depend a lot on the planet.

That said, it would be very limited in scope. Nobles would be the only ones that have the resources and freedom to do it, so it would certainly not be very common. Either way, it would definitely be something kept secret, because it could easily attract both inquistors and the Ddark Gods attention.

>>52223222
I've never had the impression that the Imperium of Man gave shit about identity-politics or sexual liberation.
I think the Ecclesiarchy / Ministorum pretty much let's you fuck whoever you want, and call yourself whatever, so long as you PRAISE THE EMPRAH!
Local system / planetary political/ cultural climates surely differ, but the church itself is completely beyond those archaic concepts of sin or virtue, in my mind.
>Virtue = Service
>Sin = doubt, acceptance of xenos filth, acceptance of ideological beliefs other than the imperial creed, mutation.

>>52224294
There is a set of minimum requierements, but the exact way of worshipping varies from planet to planet. Some planets organize reenactements of battles with kids as the actors (and really getting killed), others may simply have a morning and night prayer with some kind of sermon once a week...
Terra doesn't care as long as the tithes are met and there is no heresy. They simply tell them to follow the Imperial Creed and fill in the blanks with whatever theyb want.

>>52224687
>My gut says that lesbians, gays and bisexuals are relatively accepted in society. Unless what they do in the bedroom starts affecting their productivity, the Commissar/Adeptus Arbites don't care one iota.
Accepted is far from the right term. They're ignored. If nobody finds out, then nothing happens. But if someone does find out, it's unlikely that it'll end well for you for a number of reasons, from the fact that the imperium is not an open minded or tolerant society and any form of deviancy including being gay is most definitely the first step on the road to Slannesh worship, to the fact that for the vaast majority of people, if you have time to think about sexuality, then you're waisting time, and time doesn't beong to you, but to The Emperor.

Anything like that would be limited to the very powerful in the imperium, in a relatively few number of worlds.

>>52223373
Are you sick of everything, and just want to watch everything burn while you laugh?

Welcome to Malal! Unfortunately your lifeforce will be forever linked to the force of Anarchy.

>>52224879
Except that's got nothing to do with Malal you retard.

>>52223252

Underhive mutant scum are (quasi) accepted on most planets so I don't see why trannies wouldn't be. Everyone in 40k is mentally ill anyway and it's a dystopian hellhole on purpose, I don't see why you would even argue about this unless you're a /pol/tard or socjus retard.

>>52224565
For a lot of people it does though.

The fact is, few cases of gender dysphoria are exactly the same. For many people, the surgery does help. It shouldn't be simply disregarded as a possible treatment because you (and I) find it icky.

>>52223239
Per a BL author, trans people are fine: http://a-40k-author.tumblr.com/post/149714948331/trans-people-in-40k-yn-im-working-on-lore-for-a

More zealous Inquisitors might correlate it with Slaaneshi worship but most people probably don't give a shit

>>52223222
Is x heresy

If you have to ask generally yes, in the world of 40k transgender would most likely be viewed as things along the lines of slannesh or of the sorts, since most tumblr "transgenders" are doing it for attention.

So more then likely yes it would be.

>>52223489

Not a problem at all. At that point, if you can change the body to fit the brain or just as easily change the brain to fit the body, then why not let them choose?

Suicide rates are very high for post-ops, probably because that least a few have regrets or because the tech doesn't quite make a genuine reassignment. But improved surgery would fix both of those: you'd be a fully functional member of your new sex, and able to switch back if you regret it.

In fact, I suspect some aristocrats would go back and forth as conspicuous consumption/fashion/whim dictate. Marital politics gets much easier for monarchs with eight daughters if they can turn two into the sons they need to seal a dynastic pact with another noble family.

Or if your daughter is a brilliant warrior and wants a chance to be a space marine someday. She goes a full anatomical/metabolic/genetic transition and now geneseed works.

>>52223222
Link to the arguments?

>>52224809
Basically this. It's actually a neat system for a tabletop/roleplay setting. It means that your army can come from any culture and you can play any character. Fuck, there could be a planet when gender switching is mandatory every year, but as long as they make their tithes on time and don't start warming to xenos or Chaos then the Imperium doesn't give two shits.

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>>52223222

There are people who replace as much of themselves with robotics and tech as they can, there are fungus-barbarian-xeno filth, and the entire planet of Necromunda exists, and people think a few FtM and MtF people are gonna set off the heresy-radar? As long as you don't get off to it, serve the emperor, and didn't do it because "the little voices in the back of my mind told me to," odds are nobody gives a fuck because you're goddamn cannon fodder anyway.

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>>52224687
>you'll never fuck a qt trap SoB
Damn, I didn't know I wanted this until now.

>>52224308
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

This is likely the paper he's referencing. It states that mortality and likelihood to commit or attempt suicide is higher among post-op transsexuals than the general population. It does however make it a point to note near the end that the study does not know whether things would have been even worse without the gender reassignment surgery. The paper does however indicate that reassignment surgery (along with hormone therapy beforehand) is not sufficient treatment on its own.

>>52225095
>most tumblr "transgenders" are doing it for attention
Keep in mind that the majority of trans people aren't the tumblr kind, and would rather have as little attention as possible.

That 99% would get their gene-vat transition, pick up a lasrifle, and die for the God-Emperor, thanking Him for having been allowed to transition first and never speaking of it otherwise.

tumblr kids should be purged in 40k and here.

>>52225178
>Or if your daughter is a brilliant warrior and wants a chance to be a space marine someday. She goes a full anatomical/metabolic/genetic transition and now geneseed works.
Not him, but that is not how that works.
Space marines already very rarely recruit from civilized worlds, and there's no way in hell they'd recruit a noble's child. They want feral warriors trained to kill from birth.

Moreover, even if the process worked like that, any post-op tranny, no matter how perfect the operation was, would be able to become an astartes. It requires both male hormones and tissues, and it would be impossible to do such a change. It would require literally transferring the mind (not the brain, because it would be female tissue) into a male body.

Such technology doesn't exist in 40k as far as we know, would certainly not be available to anyone but the ad mech and is basically not gender changing, it's creating a whole new person with the old mind.


While I know you aren't meaning to do this, saying such stuff can lead to "WAHH why doesn't GW make female space marines?” Threads, and as such anything they can use to say "they could just do this" needs to be put down, for the good of all.

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>>52225303
Considering that SoBs are most likely ripped from all their training, a trap SoB would probably wind up being Griffith-level androgynos more than anything, pretty clear that he's a guy despite the pretty face

>>52225327
>The paper does however indicate that reassignment surgery (along with hormone therapy beforehand) is not sufficient treatment on its own.
The Imperium's defenses against the galaxy's threats are not sufficient on their own (or at least that was the lore until Robby G. came back), but it's the best the Imperium's got.

>>52225327
Is there any research on suicide among the pre-op transgendered? without that, comparison is impossible.

>>52225376
>there's no way in hell they'd recruit a noble's child
Ultramar says otherwise.

Otherwise, you're spot on.

>>52223315
One effective therapy being a bullet in the brain, of course.

>>52225248
>and people think a few FtM and MtF people are gonna set off the heresy-radar
Yes.
To care about such things is to care for yourself. To care for yourself is to take away from your love of the emperor. To do such is heresy.

I don't think you truly understand the mindset of the imperium. It's Christian or Islamic dedication to God on super steroids. You must give your entire being up to the Emperor, no ifs ands ors or buts.
Certainly it does happen as vast as the imperium is, but it would be a minsiculely small minority of a minority of a minority.

One must keep in mind that only the most powerful of people on civilized worlds have the opportunity to even think about this stuff. That's already a couple billion at most put of trillions upon trillions.
You then have to exclude the ad mech, because gender and such isn't their thing, only human to beepboop for them. And then you have to exclude the devout, the radicals, the conservatives and the even passingly pious. Only the very liberal of members would consider this.

Trannies would represent a couple million throughout the galaxy at most, and a couple ten to maybe a hundred thousand that aren't in some way involved with a slaneeshi cult.

>>52223620

I don't doubt that even debased Imperium tech, being much more advanced than modern technology, can do a perfect gender swap. That's A) assuming it fits the planet's local morals, B) assuming they don't withhold such surgery out of sheer pennywise/poundfoolish bloodymindedness, C) the person can afford it.

So if fecundity is the only issue, then it's a non-starter. In fact, imagine a world where they need so much population growth that they insist on an 80/20 female to male ratio. So 60% of males are selected and compelled to become females by force of law, so they can bear children for the Emperor.

So on some worlds it will be banned, on some it will be celebrated, on some it will be accepted but looked down upon, and on a few it might even be mandatory. Usually it's not important enough an issue to bother noting in a world's description.

>>52225438
Not really. Macragge isn't classified as a civilized world, it's an astartes homeworld. No nobles, just marines.
While they do recruit from other planets in ultramar, I can't think of a single civilized world they're stated to recruit from in M.41. I guess Calth technically counts, but it's really more of Civilized-Death world hybrid.

>>52225438
The vast majority of SM recruits come from death/feral worlds
Children of nobility being recruited is only really done by the Ultramarines and another chapter whose name I forget

>>52223634
>You're skirting transhumanism with that kind of proposal

Literally!

But yeah given that the Imperium practices much more aggressive transhumanism on a regular basis, this is pretty small potatoes. Genetic changes (like switching a Y to a second X) would be the touchiest, but probably not controversial so long as your Pure Human Genetics remain so. If anything, clinics for gender reassignment might be a socially acceptable cover for their real (illegal) business: attempting to surgically and genetically modify mutants back into a semblance of pure humanity, lest the whole family's genome become suspect. Especially for nobles, it would be the equivalent of hiding the drooling idiot cousin in the basement lest the family be embarrassed and ruined at court.

>basically a one-way trip

Once the tech gets good enough, you can hop back and forth as much as the commissar and your bank account permit.

>>52223930

I might bait an RPG player who had strong opinions about this by putting him on planets that hold whatever view sets him off... but I wouldn't play with a player that /pol/iticized in the first place, regardless of which side xe's on.

>>52225490
>To care about such things is to care for yourself. To care for yourself is to take away from your love of the emperor. To do such is heresy.
Death Korps pls go and stay go. You don't have time to post on imageboards.

>>52225490
>Trannies would represent a couple million throughout the galaxy at most, and a couple ten to maybe a hundred thousand that aren't in some way involved with a slaneeshi cult.
See >>52225374

>>52225539
>>52225438
I can't really think of any nobles or children of nobles who became space marines. Only Huron comes to mind, but he took over the planet, and isn't really a great example.
I would figure the administratum would want to keep them separate, in order to ensure you don't have space marines possibly answering to a governor.

>>52223910

Everyone on both sides of the issue agrees that it's a disorder. If you support trans rights (as I do), then you want people to have the right to change their anatomy to fix their neurology. People opposed to trans rights either deny it's a thing or believe that the neurology should be changed to match the anatomy-- not that that's actually possible yet.

It's how Chelsea Manning got a sex change in prison. It's a disorder, and therefore covered by insurance. If it was a pure matter of personal preference, she'd have had to have paid for it herself and probably been denied permission even then.

Once perfect neural/anatomical/metabolic/genetic sex changes become possible, this whole issue becomes hopelessly passe. If your brain doesn't match your body, then you fix one or the other as you prefer.

>>52224937
Goddamn, I don't give two shits about trans people, but this kind of self-inserting pisses me off.

>>52224308

It's true. But that's not to say the rates wouldn't be higher if reassignment surgery wasn't available. Or that the suicide rates are due to issues with social acceptance of post-ops or even lingering psychological issues accumulated during years of being the wrong gender.

A flat % doesn't necessarily tell us WHY something's happening. Just that it is.

>>52225641
>>52225538
>>52225539
While the Astartes rule Ultramar, the planets still have nobility that act as the middlemen between the people and the Chapter.

The nobles volunteer their sons for training and tournaments in the hopes that they'll get picked to join the Chpater, but once in they're expected to put the Ultramarines first, if they even remember their biological families.

Having your great-great-great uncle in the Chapter is a bragging point, but it doesn't actually get your family more power.

This is all lore from years back, but I'm afraid I don't have the book(s) I got it from handy.

I'M SURE TONS OF TRANNIES EXIST AMONG THE CRIMINAL UNDERHIVE GANGS

THE NOBLES HAVE LINEAGES TO MAINTAIN AND SEX CHANGE WOULD FUCK THAT UP

AND THE BUSY MASSES ARE TOO BUSY TO BOTHER WITH GENDER

>>52224564

More to the point, Slaanesh is about perversion. That is, not the sex itself, but violating social norms and ruining your life in the pursuit of sex.

A smart Slaaneshi lobbies for as restrictive a set of anti-sex laws and morals as possible. Arranged marriages, sex for procreation only, orgasms are shameful, etc. Then at that point everyone is doing pretty tame ordinary stuff by our standards... but the air of perversion it takes on by being forbidden feeds the warp daemons encouraging it.

In an open society like the Eldar, you had to engage in some pretty fucked up shit to be considered to be crossing the line. In a victorian-style straitlaced society, even a flash of ankle can be corrupting.

>>52224731

ALL DAT KILLIN MAKES ME SPORES POP OUT

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>>52225818
YOU WANT TO BE LOUD? I CAN BE LOUD TOO! FUCK YOU!

>>52225095

I would make the Imperium anti-trans if I wanted to push the "everything is HERESY" angle for extra grimdark dystopia.

But given all the variety between planets and all the legal transhumanism they already actively promote, it's kind of reaching.

>>52225621
>Death Korps pls go and stay go. You don't have time to post on imageboards.
That's how the Imperium is you faggot.
The korps are extreme, sure, but there is no freedom, no choice, no individualism in the grimdarkness of the far future.
Read any piece on in universe lore, from the thoughts for the day to imperial infantry man's uplifting primer. You don't get to think for yourself, you belong to the emperor, and to deny that in any way is heretical.

>See >>52225374 #
So? Who gives a fuck about all that. Real life trannies don't live in a wolrd where slaneesh exists. Sexual action inherelty offers slaneesh a place in your mind. Any form of pleasure does, especially completely altering yourself to "make yourself feel right". You're cutting yourself up to feel better, that's slaneesh.

Moreover, the bigger issue is the implication that any gaurdsman has the opportunity to do that. No, that's just wrong. Guardsmen, like every human but the nobility, are never getting the chance to "jump in a gene vat." The imperium is not welcoming. The idea that "as long you praise the emperor it's ok" is utter bullshit. The imperium abhors the mutant, no matter how much they praise the emperor they're purged.
The idea that the imperium is tolerant as long as you tow the line is complete bullshit. Any such case is statically insignificant
it's the "cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable." We're told, from the first lines of the entire setting, to "Forget the promise of progress and understanding."
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. You conform. An extremely small group (as in .0000000001%) may have such freedom, but for everyone else you either obey the law to the letter, or die. There is no peace, no tolerance, no understanding, no "it's ok as long as you praise the emperor." Only war and the laughter of the Thirsting Gods.
Everyone who says otherwise is a faggot who misrepresents the imperium in a much more positive light than it deservess

>>52223613
Oh god, imagine how horrible the paper trail might get.

>It says on the record that you had a father and...a male mother?
>No, she was trans. The paperwork just wasn't changed.
>Mmm. I wish I had the authorization levels to edit that, but I will have to check with my supervisor next cycle. In the meantime, you'll have to check in with the Inquisitorial representative for scrutiny in case you are a heretical birth.

>I was checking the Planetary governer's ancestry charts, never mind why-
>Go on.
>It says here, there was a Maria Delavatino-
>Oh, he was trans. He had his name changed to Marcus.
>....But the paperwork clearly shows there was a Maria, that disappeared around the time of Marcus' appearance! Don't you think that's suspicious?
>...Is this the excuse for a revolution we've been waiting for?
>Sounds like it to me.

>>52223222
>trannies
When will this shit stop?

>>52225376

Some chapters do indeed recruit from civilized worlds. And I don't see why you can't do a full metabolic/genetic change. Obviously if imperial tech can't do that, then FtMs can't take geneseed.

But I'll drop the point since you're right that the last thing we need is a female space marines thread. Even when /tg/ was unbaitable that was a bait topic.

>>52225926
When people stop chimping out over what strangers do with their own genitals.

So never.

>>52225904
>from the thoughts for the day to imperial infantry man's uplifting primer
Aren't they supposed to be in-universe propaganda? And the Uplifting Primer is pretty much comedy about how useless it actually is?

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>>52223498
More importantly, can Eldar females lick themselves?

>>52225706
>against self-inserting

OK guys, nobody ask him about hermaphrodites.

>>52225926

About five minutes before everyone moves on to polyamory.

>>52225904
>Everyone who says otherwise is a faggot who misrepresents the imperium in a much more positive light than it deservess
Every Black Library author ever, then? Because a fuckton of novels start with life being pretty decent (if pious) on the planet of the day before the Baddies show up.

Get off 4chan, edgelord. You're supposed to be eighteen or older to post here.

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>>52225904
If individualism were truly dead in the imperium, they'd be Necrons. It's giving YOURSELF to the Emperor, therefore you must actually have a sense of SELF in the first place.

If it were as bad as you say it is, then they would only have I.D. Numbers instead of names, and there'd be no such characters as "Klovis the Redeemer."

Fuck off and keep screaming "faggot" somewhere else.

>>52225980
Yes, yes it is.

>>52225980
It is useless and in-universe propaganda, but that's the point.
The imperium doesn't have the mindset of "hey, it's ok if you aren't 100% devoted," they demand 1000% dedication the emperor and the imperium. You are "one amongst untold billions." You are a number, and you are not free. You don't own yourself, you belong the Emperor, snd to deny that is heresy.
Sure, not everyone will believe that 100%, but it's the mindset of the imperium.

>>52226033
So it'd be impossible for a regular Joe to just do his work hours, go down to the market to buy some groceries, go home, make dinner, do daily prayers to the Emperor, and then go to sleep?

Do people not have any regular lives in the Imperium?

>>52226018
>Because a fuckton of novels start with life being pretty decent (if pious) on the planet of the day before the Baddies show up.
BL is trash, and I never said life was "all pain all the time." That'd be chaos.
The imperium can be a comfortable place to live, but it's still opressive, brutal, bloody and uncaring. The lore makes that very clear, it's the fucking basis of the setting.

>>52226024
>If individualism were truly dead in the imperium, they'd be Necrons. It's giving YOURSELF to the Emperor, therefore you must actually have a sense of SELF in the first place.
Individualism is not the same as individuality.

>>52224564
>Virginity Status: Confirmed

>>52226080
Depends on the planet. This really gets to the crux of the issue, and why so many problems arise.
Yes, they aren't crons, they're still free to technically do as they please. But they are highly restricted, and those restrictions are enforced by the most uncaring and brutal of people.
This is what makes the nobles unique. They aren't subject to such restrictions, and as such do have the freedom to do such things. But they aren't the rule, but very much so the exception.
The average Joe can live a nice perhaps even happy life, but only if he lives it within the restrictions the imperium allows.
Start thinking outside the box and the arbites or inquistion will be on your ass.

>>52223222
pssst

you're also shoving your retarded political fantasy into everything

>>52226088
>I know the setting better than the people who create its canon content
You might not be LGBT, but you're the biggest faggot I've ever seen.

>>52225705

Actually you can support trans rights by supporting both their right to have elective surgeries and the search for a cure to whatever causes trans people in the first place.

I'm going to draw the homosexuality-versus-schizophrenia parallel again. We treat trannies like homosexuals, when we should be treating them like schizophrenics, because trannies have an actually-harmful medical/psychological/neurological condition. Nobody wants to be born trans, nobody reasonably would prefer to be trans over non-trans: they literally want to be just a regular person, albeit one of the opposite sex. Finding a cure for the origin of their dysphoria is a good bit more realistic for the foreseeable future than fully-satisfactory sex reassignment.

Post-op trannies still experience dysphoria; whether that's a result of our current limitations is up for debate, but it's entirely possible that even with fully-functional organ transplants and the replacement of everything but their brain and 'wrong' X/Y chromosome, they will still have dysphoria because of whatever brain issue is going on with them.

Ideally we'll be eventually be able to screen out whatever genetic cues predispose people to gender dysphoria and just stop it happening at all, along with other harmful defects like sickle-cell anemia and autism.

>>52226024
You really have no idea what indivualism is, do you?

>>52226152
>You might not be LGBT, but you're the biggest faggot I've ever seen.
Please, do cite the books where it says "oh the imperium is so tolerant and everyone is free. Certainly it's not the "most bloody and cruel regime in history," where there is "in the grimdarkness of the 41st millenium... Only war"

>>52225706
>Goddamn, I don't give two shits about straight people, but this kind of self-inserting pisses me off.

>>52226208
>Ratlings - Abhumans
>Full Citizenship, but most dont like them
>Someone wants tits and a vagina
>Heresy

>>52226225
That's not a citation showing the imperium isn't intolerant and cruel

>>52226158
Eugenicist pls go and stay go

>>52223222
Trannies are Slaaneshi, of course they aren't tolerated.

Kill trannies, save /tg/.

>>52226242
Alright, cite where the imperium hates LGBT without trying to pull "mutant" or "deviant" out.

>>52226158

Isn't that what I said? Once you can change neurology OR anatomy with 100% efficacy, then at that point it doesn't matter which you switch to match the other. Or switch both. Like I said, then the whole argument becomes passe.

Meanwhile, operations we have are better than nothing, and since we know dick-all about neurology, reassignment is likely to stay the better option for quite some time. Or, for people who want to wait on surgery, simply living as their neurological gender and putting up with their anatomy.

My only quibble is that your schizo analogy implies that the body is right and the brain is wrong. You could just as easily say that the body and genome were wrong and the neurology is right. They're just mis-matched. Either way, once it's possible to switch either, there's no reason not to let them choose.

Obviously, in the 40k universe there are lots of reasons not to let them choose, mostly because the setting is an over-the-top dystopia. But even then I'd have it vary by planet and mostly be a "who cares" issue on civilized high-tech worlds.

We're in a unique moment in history when we can kind-of/sort-of change genders via surgery. Before it was moot because trans had no recourse at all. After it will be moot because the recourse will be so perfect that once cured (via reassignment or neural change) nobody will know or care.

>>52226245

So even if we have the medical technology, you'd prefer people to keep being born with hairlips, down's syndrome, and elephantitis?

You monster.

>>52226284
>I have the supreme insight to know wether one's life is valuable and worth living.

No, the monster would be (You).

>>52226245
>>52226284

Whether it's a terrible moral crime depends entirely on who decides (parents or gubbmint) and whether it's used to cripple/control people on purpose.

In the grim darkness of the 40th millennium, hairlips, down's, elephantitis, and gender dysphoria might well ALL be considered evil mutations. The curse of Chaos itself. And then purged.

Watch, thou, the mutant!

Or they might be easily repaired via normal, advanced-but-brutal imperial medicine.

Hell, the Emperor Himself worked on eugenics programs. Whatever your personal views of the subject (my own above notwithstanding) you can't deny that it's a clear part of 40k.

medical technology in the 41st millennium is far advanced over what we have now. They may have cures and treatments we have not even imagined.

Of course there is also the ridiculous argument:
>You want to replace your genitals with a toaster? Whatever who cares.
>You want to replace your genitals with different genitals? HERESY!

>>52226158
>sickle-cell
>harmful
sickle-cell is actually a beneficial trait in areas where malaria is rampant, as cruel as it may seem.

>>52226279

Depends what you mean by body. Saving intersex people, trannies don't often have biological complications unless you count their brains. Their brain chemistry/makeup quite possibly is off, so if that's part of the body to you then yes, their body probably is wrong. It's further complicated by media proliferation of trannies, which may cause more "edge cases" to become trans than would strictly be merited by an actual neurological analysis.

My only worry is that the current political climate in the West is a bit hostile towards legitimate research into neurological treatment for dysphoria, partly because of all the illegitimate attempts at curing it and partly because trannies are kind of the hot progressive issue right now.

>>52226348

What if we remove it before birth and give you the option to voluntarily acquire a genetic defect later?

>>52226390
>My only worry is that the current political climate in the West is a bit hostile towards legitimate research into neurological treatment for dysphoria
the current political climate in the west is hostile towards any legitimate research on any topic that doesn't lead to immediate profits for the already wealthy

>>52226348
I really hope you're pro-life. Otherwise, you're probably the biggest hypocrite in this thread.

>>52226242
Their intolerance doesn't have the same basis as ours. We're affected by the Abrahamic religions' holy texts (which are obsessed with sexual issues) and several centuries of contact between races at different power levels (hence racism).

The Imperium doesn't seem to care about sex. They don't have a need to convince people to breed more because humans don't generally share planets with non-humans - which is when outbreeding the other would be most helpful. Racism is different in M41; it applies to races that developed after some point in time, i.e. abhumans, and of course random mutants in otherwise normal populations. I suppose someone might call transgenderism a mutation but it doesn't have an outwardly inhuman appearance and mental differences that aren't psychic don't seem to matter.

>>52226367
>posts paragraphs about a controversial topic without once relating it to WH and actually referencing real world circumstances
>"lol I was just talking about in game the whole time!"

>>52223302
>implying /lgbt/ comes here to shitpost

>>52226450
I'm pretty sure those posts speak for themself.

>>52226383
>medical technology in the 41st millennium is far advanced over what we have now. They may have cures and treatments we have not even imagined.

I think the rebuttal would go something like this:
"Fantasy and scifi solutions in fantasy and scifi settings are forbidden, because it implies there was a "problem" that needed "fixing" in the first place. Therefore, even in a setting where everyone has a personal genie who grants unlimited wishes, having a trans person magically wish themselves into the correct body merely enforces the tyranny of the gender binary. "

>>52226411
That's called medicine.

>>52226518
>"Fantasy and scifi solutions in fantasy and scifi settings are forbidden, because it implies there was a "problem" that needed "fixing" in the first place. Therefore, even in a setting where everyone has a personal genie who grants unlimited wishes, having a trans person magically wish themselves into the correct body merely enforces the tyranny of the gender binary. "
yeah fuck that and the person who wrote that. If I could wish myself into a female body I would do it in an instant, social constructs be damned.

>>52226518

>gender binary

I miss the days of "boys can play with dolls and girls can play with action figures."

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Im glad most of you are being reasonable about this. Thought it might have been pol central in here.

>>52226455

The double-trips is right to some extent. Though it's worth noting that the sex stuff mostly became a thing among christians because the bible says all kinds of stuff about nearly everything: hygiene, eating, drinking, disease, gardening, what kinds of clothes are forbidden to wear, etc etc.

Christianity repealed nearly all those laws, EXCEPT for the sex laws. Since most early Christians were roman slaves, and since the Romans were legendary for constant, cruel, often depraved sexual exploitation of their chattel, those sex rules (and the emphasis on celibacy, which has no basis in ancient judaism) were probably very popular. If you're getting sodomized by your master every day, and he tells you that it's not just legal but morally just and proper that you take it and smile for him after, then it's a relief when the secret christian priest tells you that what he's doing is WRONG, that he's going to HELL for it, and that you can be forgiven and your own guilt and shame wiped clean via Jesus.

Of course, 1500 years after those roman practices were abolished, the rules are still there, bereft of the context in which they were created. Any imperial world will have its own historical traumas that it works through via ancient moral taboos that people hold onto because it's how things have "always" been.

So while you can call something "deviant" by modern, western standards, move your context just a few thousand miles or a few hundred years in any direction and you get a whole different list of things that are "right and proper" and of things that are "deviant and depraved".

Slaanesh preys on the latter list, and I don't think xe cares all that much what is on the list, so long as people enjoy the perverse feeling of violating their own culture's rules.

>>52226383
>Whatever who cares.
They have an entire cult dedicated to the worship of the machine. There's probably a huge list of things you can't do beacuse they would be an affront to the Machine God.

>>52223222
Gender Identity Dysphoria doesn't exist in the 41st millennium, or if it does, nobody has time to think about it.

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war!

The relationship between your body and mind are not important at that moment when you are are shot at by both weaboo blueberries and impossibly smug space elves.

>>52223222
>o enlighten me /tg/ are transgendered folks considered heretics? How would the imperium handle these folks?
Like subhuman mutants, probably.
Or told to stop wasting The Emperor's valuable energy and time on pronoun dithering.

>>52226667
I'm pleasantly shocked

>>52223222
I mean they probably don't care. The AdMech decide they want to be brains in jars or fucking snail dudes.

>>52223222
>been arguing with tumblr snowflakes

It's you. You're the snowflake.

Non-gendered folks aren't heresy, as you can have pretty much full bionic conversions - so what happens if a techpriest attaches some sort of mechanical womb onto themselves? I think it's really a question of just not asking what's going on under red robes. And Nobles in 40k can pretty much get away with whatever given the breadth of leeway and access to shit they have, I mean, have you ever read what the Spyrer hunters get up to?

Gene therapies and replacements are a thing that's offered in 40k, they turn babies into cherub servitors and shits. You wanna bolt some boobs on and invert your dick? Who gives a fuck.

>>52225376
>>52225943
The best argument for female space marines basically boils down to: After the geneseed implantation, surgeries, and physical muscle therapies, a "female" space marine would be indistinguishable from a male one.

>>52223252
>transgender
Transgenerded people are a meme
Either you are mentally ill, or you are intentionally larping as a fag.
depending on where you are they likely will put you to death just to be sure either way or just leave you to go insane on your own.
Not really sure how far status signaling would go in the upper caste but I wouldn't like my chances.

>>52223502
>All the emperor asks is for ultimate loyalty to him, the species, and that you do your part by providing what you and your planet can bear in form of a tithe.
The last part is the issue though, most planets in 40k are given tithes from the administratum so extreme, that tyrannical rule is more or less the only way to wring the money and resources out of the people unless they're lucky enough to have an extremely competent and efficient ruler.

>>52223454
>unless you take it to almost superhuman extremes.
>cuts off balls to spite his face
>not inhumanly extreme

>>52225971
>le ebin it dont effect u meme

>>52227813
>Either you are mentally ill, or you are intentionally larping as a fag.
no need to project anon

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>>52225824
>Arranged marriages, sex for procreation only, orgasms are shameful
>implying any of these things are negative or have negative effects on society
wew

>>52227888
>I wan't to cut off my dickandballs because I feel like a woman and want men to sodomize me
>totally sane and straight
:^)

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>>52227813
>>52227829
>>52227886
>>52227940

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>>52228020
I'm not bait, im actually a pretty little girl!

>>52223454
>unless you take it to almost superhuman extremes.
And where do you think the path starts.

>>52228239
But are you a smug?

>>52228287
Yes I identify as a smug little girl.

>>52223222
Do you praise the Emperor?

Are you performing your duty to the Imperium?

Have you avoided consorting with the ruinous powers?

As long as you answered yes to all three questions, the Imperium doesn't give a shit.

>>52224184
>Suicide rates for transsexuals go up after gender reassignment.
That's literally not true and the study that usually gets thrown around as supposedly proving it really says the opposite but retards don't actually know/care to read the actual research.

actual tranny here. while location does play a part in how we'd be received, I can easily see a lot of worlds calling us heretics. the way i see it is we'd be seen as a gateway to slaaneshi body modification.

>>52228535
Or you could just join the admech biologis and modify your body however you want.

>>52225539
Some also come from gangs from the hive worlds. BT do that.

>>52223613
Arbites: Why did you try to kill this fine imperial citizen, Adept?
>He's transgender!
Is there anything wrong with that?
>YES! I'm going to have to go back through 20 years' worth of paperwork to change all the stinking pronouns!

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>>52228742

>>52227923
>orgasms are shameful
>not a negative impact on society

>>52228867
this

and orgasm is a feature of the glorious human form

>>52223413
>>52225453
Yes, yes, the thread went over how there's enough variety in the imperium that there's bound to be a few worlds where they kill everyone who triggers you for you to jerk off over.

>>52224397
Read the thread, the imperium is vastly varied with decadence even without straight up slaanesh cults.

>>52225187
Probably just a made-up excuse for shitposting like so many of these threads.

>>52225926
The /pol/ bait is here to stay, if you mean the trannies themselves then they've been around since at least ancient greece so probably same answer.

>>52226158
>homosexuality-versus-schizophrenia parallel
Actually, neurologically, gay people seem something like "tranny-lite".

>>52223222
>Been arguing with tumblr snowflakes

That's your problem, you're treating subhuman trash like they're people with opinions.

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>>52223222
Well the Imperium lets cannibalism and slavery slide provided the cultures are properly devoted to the Emperor, so I don't imagine the Adeptus Terra gives two shits is someone wants to surgically alter their junk. I don't imagine it's a hard procedure for the kind of medical tech Imperial nobles can get.

Frankly they've got better things to worry about, focusing on social equality issues affecting only a tiny fraction of the population is a luxury of a sheltered, stable and inward looking culture.

The Imperium won't care beyond 'Can they fire a lasgun at Unspeakable Horror #236241634236 with at least BS2?'.

Callidus swap genders constantly, hell, half the older ones have forgotten what their original gender was due to the amount of post-mission mindscaping assassins receive.

>>52223445
Transsexuality has much more in common with Body Integrity Disorder than it does with Schizophrenia. The perceptions of both transsexuals and those with BID are not delusional in the usual sense. In most regards their sense experience is congruent with that of normal people, they don't see or hear things that are not there, they can and do acknowledge the actual current state of their bodies. Which in turn becomes the very problem when that state inflicts them considerable psychological pain. For transsexuals the problem is the sex of their body is wrong. For those with BID it's usually a limb that feels like it's not a part of them, but rather a parasitic thing attached to them. Transsexuals also often times express similar feelings with respect to their primary and secondary sex characteristics as those with BID do with respect to their offending limb, in wanting them to be permanently remove.

What's probably going on is that the brain has an internal map of what its body is supposed to look like. It's why people get phantom limb syndrome, sure you lost your legs in the war, but your body-map says you should have legs, so you can still kind of feel them. Given that pretty much everything about human biology can go wrong in some manner or another, it stands to reason that this body-map may to wind up malformed. So some people are born with no mapping for one arm. Other people are born with a female body and mapping for a male one.

Apparently having your body not match your brain map is extremely distressing. Before sex reassignment surgeries became mainstream people were getting them from back alley doctors, and because cutting off the limbs of people with BID will cost you your medical license, BID sufferers still resort to such operations.

>>52229259
It's actually pretty incredible the lengths some people will go to. There's a story i remember from the 19th century, of a man who was so distressed by one of his arms, that he forced a doctor at gunpoint to amputate the offending limb. Think about that, he forced someone to cut off his arm with no anesthetic, an extremely painful procedure that could have killed him, because continuing to live with it was just that intolerable. Later he wrote to the doctor joyously thanking and saying that he'd made him the happiest man in all the world.

Therapy, incidentally, is completely ineffective at dealing with these kinds of body-map mismatches. At best it can help people cope with the distress, but it does not remove it. Until such a time as we can figure out a way to rewire the brain's body-map directly, the only options are legitimate surgeries through the medical system, or letting these people suffer. If the latter option is taken, some of these people will wind up getting surgeries anyway, just in a much less safe fashion and with less counselling than normal. This can be a problem, because there are conditions that show the symptoms of transsexuality or BID, but are not actually and can in fact be treated through other means. Schizophrenia, incidentally, is one of them. You sometimes have people who think they're transsexual, but put them on anti-psychotics and suddenly the dysphoria disappears. Rather than being transsexual they had a different ailment which could be fixed with medication. Without legitimate avenues to pursue, such a person may have mistakenly undergone a surgery they did not need. That's why psychological evaluations are important before any sex change.

I would incidentally advocate taking the exact same approach for people with BID. Until such a time as we can fix their brains directly, the option to modify their bodies should be present, but only after psychological screening has determined that BID is the actual problem.

>>52223634
Well, let me give the perspective of someone who has gone through gatekeeping, and known people who went through it from the other side.
First, a disclaimer: I stopped my transition for medical reasons. Said medical reasons being that the Spironolactone (an anti-androgyne that transwoman are legally required to take with estrogen, despite medical proof otherwise) has a very scary list of side effects. I got with several of the ones that are best described as "And you didn't die within a week? Wow." It's been three years and I'm still in recovery.
Anyways, onto gatekeeping. Transwomen have it worse than Transmen. I'm serious, I know a transman who was given testosterone within 3 months therapy, despite his desire to be male being very obvious misogyny. I repeat, under the pre 2014 rules change, he got his hormones with only three months therapy and insurance covered it. I took six months to get cleared for a blood test, and I had to pay out of pocket. When I actually got spiro and estrogen, which took me until after the 2014 rules change despite starting to try to socially transition in 2009, I was damn lucky that my clinic had a "you're really broke and we're subsidized" payment option.
And then a month later I had severe facial ataxia, assorted nervous system damage, and muscular atrophy of everything (including the heart). There's a reason several nations ban spiro, and there's a reason the US requires all transwomen to take it for the rest of their lives despite banning its use in men: it's fucking lethal stuff.
Now, onto the brain issues of dysphoria: Most transpeople are actually happy with their surgeries. The most common section to be unhappy: transmen, because it is actually rather hard to turn a vagina into a penis, due a distinct lack of erectile tissue outside the clitoris. Most transwomen are unhappy because the dysphoria can feel that there is no womb, even with a pseudo-vagina in place.

>>52229399
>>52229259
I never really thought about it that way before, but it explains pretty well why I want surgery down there but that the thought of having a limb cut off is terrifying.

personally my optimistic hopes are for DARPA's BRAIN initiative research to translate to consumer level products and services within my lifetime. Given the breakthroughs they had last year about providing the sense of touch on a prosthetic via a brain implant, I want to believe they can find a way to allow ordinary people to embrace the machine and adapt their body to suit their needs.

>>52223222
In 40k, sexuality is more or less meaningless
The only thing that really matters is loyaly to the Emperor and Imperium. Anything else is secondary.

>>52223634
>>52229663 (Cont)
The issue with finding the neurology behind dysphoria is that, despite the current mania of neurologists, there is no standard neurology, and thus no standard model to determine where anomalies are. All we can tell is general regions that are heavily predisposed towards certain activities, but neurological activity for even a single, simple, task can be spread across several sections of the brain.
In short, every brain is unique, and finding the precise treatment to create the neurological change required without changing the rest of the brain requires a lot of resources and opens a can of worms. It would be a lot easier to perform reassignment surgery and gently nudge the brain's neuroplasticity into correcting itself.
So short of going full Eclipse Phase, that's probably the best we're going to get, and therefore the best that the Imperium can provide, when it has the resources to do so and the local culture allows it.

>>52225428
Not really, because in areas where the pre-op trans suicide rates are highest, the families cover it up to avoid feeling shamed. Not the suicide part, but the trans part. Because this data cannot be found, it's not counted for studies of pre-op suicide rates.

>>52226518
Ah the TERFs, and how they intend to free us from the gender binary by killing all the people who are not biologically and mentally female.
Because destroying a two choice system by making it a single choice system is totes not tyranny, right?

>>52223243
THIRD POST BEST POST

ALL OTHER DISCUSSION IRRELIVANT

I AM ASHAMED OF YOU ALL

OP KILL YOURSELF

>>52228531
The fact of the matter is they never change, suicide is very common among post and pre op trans people and recent studies show that the operation had little to no effect on the choice to kys

>>52228867
Shameful as in they are private things not meant for public display.
Which I know isn't exactly what they meant but whatever

>>52223222
>Been arguing with tumblr snowflakes
LOL that's stupid.

>>52230099
You ever think maybe suicide still happens is partially due to how alot of society treats us?

>>52227815
That's because the tithes are set once in a very great while, aren't always set using "modern" data (Or data that was ever correct), and are sometimes set on a much wider scale (This subsector has 10,000,000,000 people and 500 planets, so X number of people per planet, ignoring that some of the planets are massive hives and some are barely inhabited watch stations) than they are paid on. If the bureaucracy was capable of keeping up on census records, the tithes probably wouldn't be so bad. But the guys who set the target numbers, the guys who know what numbers would be realistic, the guys who are actually accountable to deliver, and the guys who come knocking when it's not delivered don't communicate and might not even exist in the same century.

>>52229204
I'm sorry that I expected grown adults behind a keyboard to actually act like grown adults anon.

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>>52223498

>Big E prefers rei because they did eet back when the Vadrigar(aka quake series gods more powerful than the 4 sickfucks) took him to the Eternal Arena when he was young
>it was love on the 1st bfg cheese

>>52229204
but you are the subhuman trash, anon

>>52231830

Does it mean that the emperor was a character in Quake 3?

>>52223222

A Heretic is someone who believes in improper practices in the faith.

If a TG person prayed to the emperor, paid his tithe, worshiped no other gods, shunned the alien, mutant and witch... There would be no problem what so ever.

You'd get a bit of Ecclesiastic attention if your local clerics were concerned about your susceptibility to chaos, but no more than any other citizen at risk.

Mostly, the Imperium is far too large to care that a biological man lives as a woman or vice versa. You'd have more risk based on your neighbors throwing you under the bus to earn favor with the local Arbites.

The Guard doesn't care as long as you don't speak out of line and march in time.

It is an entirely local issue: Some worlds would execute them, some would "fix" them, some wouldn't give two shits.

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>>52223222
I doubt anyone but nobles would have the time for such role-playing bullshit. And they probably get away with it.

I highly doubt there are any transgendered soldiers going around though.

The fact that people are asking or postulating that it's possible highlights the disconnect from reality lefties/SJWs today have. When your entire existence is suffering you just don't have time to wonder whether or not what is between your legs is what you think you should have.

>>52223222
>Are transgender people considered heretics in Warhammer 40k

No they're (Chaos) mutants.

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>>52223340
Reading this gave me fucking cancer holy fuck

>>52223340
>2.1: A 'sister of battle' and 'Adeptus Sororitas' henceforth means a female space marine. A sister mini is fielded as a space marine with same stats. They ARE marines, simple as that.
Does this guy not get the very different and very unique role the Sororitas plays? For a guy who claims to care about women and their representation he sure does seem keen on killing the only faction that is designed to be all-female for a very good reason.

This is like closing down the girl guides and forcing the boy scouts to take female members. Oh wait...

This is bait, but I'll bite.


The thing that has apparently been forgotten is just how grim and dark the setting is supposed to be.

You are born into your station, doing the same crushingly monotonous tasks that a long, long, long line of ancestors has done before you. Your education is that provided to you by your overseers to do your job, and the hymns and sermons of the Ecclesiarchy.

You will do your job, you will grow old, and you will die. If you have offspring, they will take your place in performing your task.

These thoughts of "not being what I am on the inside" are calls for penance and self-flagellation. Eventually, like any thoughts of improving one's lot or changing one's station, they will fade with a lifetime of back-breaking labor or mind-numbing tasks.

Even then, 99.999% of humanity has access to only the most very basic medical science.


tldr; sure, nobles probably do it constantly out of boredom, and the Imperium would neither notice nor care unless it somehow threatened the planetary tithe. Someone still has to take one for the team and pump out future Guardsmen.

>>52224059
Commissar Yarrick is implied to insert his penis into the anus of other human males for personal enjoyment.

>>52226823
Great points!

>>52230099
Bullshit, show me a source.

All the studies I've seen show that transition is hugely successful at reducing suicide rate and improving quality of life, better results than a lot of other treatments that people don't get triggered about, and at worst studies suggest that some may need additional treatment and support, not that transition is ineffective.

>>52225706
>He hates self-insert characters
>He's on /tg/

Jesus, you must be an angry man. That sort of thing is something like 30% by weight of player characters in tabletop, and you've trapped yourself on the board those people inhabit.

>>52223222

Shit like this is the privilege of a privileged society. If you're starving in some African shithole you don't care about transgenders because you're more concerned with finding enough to eat.

Same applies in 40K. Average Imperial citizen lives in such grinding oppression that this is literally never going to come up. On the other hand, the privileged elite would discuss stuff like this, and probably indulge in it. And they have the tech to make themselves whatever the fuck they want. But then consider that they also need to contend with the arcane politics of the Imperium, where any weakness can be exploited by your rivals. Lord Fopgasm suddenly declaring he is in fact Lady Gushgasp sounds like a perfect opportunity for a political rival to pounce.

>>52234386

I wish my jump packs had battle cannons on them.

Transgender probably doesn't even exist anymore in your regular 40k hive city. Your worth as a human being and having your own personality is such a minor issue for the average citizen that I doubt they can spend their resources on that. Just surviving is hard enough, they don't have time to think about things like 'Huh, I kinda feel like I shouldn't have a dick'.

>>52224888
Shh, they just need every opportunity to pretend that they'll ever be relevant again.

>>52234653
I...I'm just not understanding this.
Could you explain a little further?

>>52223222
200 posts for a question that didn't even need to be asked. Kill all of them.

>>52229663
What fucking kind of hack doctor where you seeing who told you that you were legally required to take spironoalactone with estradiol? There are no such laws in the United States nor any such requirements in the WPATH guidelines used by most transgender health providers. You can take other antiandrogens, though since cyproterone is not approved in the US you're down to GnRH agonists and 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, which are more expensive. Alternatively you could get an orchidectomy to have your gonads removed and not need any antiandrogens at all. Or hell just take estrogen and progesterone and let the female hormones drown out the male ones, it doesn't work as well but it does work. Anybody who told you that you needed to be on spiro at all, let alone for the rest of your life, was lying to you. It's just the most convenient and cheapest option, if it doesn't work for you there are others.

>>52234509
I'd be ok with it. Well, I'd be "meh" with it.

Would mean I could justify playing a male character with the sororitas background in DH2e.

>>52235501
I'm too lazy to get the Scrubs pic, but,
>200 posts for a question that didn't even need to be asked
Is the definition of this entire site, let alone board.

Couldn't you just literally take Polymorphine as a tranny and become the muscley dudebro or svelte woman you think you are and no one would give a fuck? I know it's probably expensive as shit and restricted but nobles have bank. You wouldn't even need crazy surgery and shit.

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>>52228306

>>52236606
Who is this? Another E-Celeb Tranny fag?

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>>52236720
>theres people that already forgotten moot

>>52236467
doesn't it wear off?

>>52236728
Internet tranny's are a dime a dozen. Outside of a select few, it makes sense they would be forgotten. And rightly so.

>>52223222
That's a massive grey area, so I'd say it's up to your personal choice but lets look at it from what we know about the Imperium

This is feudal society first and foremost and the central Imperial government on Terra cares only about three things: control your psykers, stay loyal, pay taxes. The rest is handed to local control so you could have a lot of variety when it comes to how trans people are seen.

That said, the Imperium is also a highly superstitious and ignorant society as a whole. They treat physical mutation as merely an outward symptom of spiritual corruption. Anyone who would seek to change their normal human form into the opposite gender could be seen as suspect at least. After all, Slaanesh is portrayed as an androgynous being with both male and female sex organs. Remember, these people barely trust the Tech-Priests who keep everything running, witch hunts are common and paranoia over chaos and treason is everywhere.

That said, nobility and money buys a lot of freedom in 40k. So you could see trans people popping up among the nobility and being easily tolerated purely because they come from the "right" family. The common people wouldn't be so lucky. The Imperium as whole couldn't care less about you and certainly won't indulge your pronouns.

Lastly, there's the question of the Inquisition. Inquisitors are divided into a lot of ideological camps so it would really come down to that. A hardline puritan might see them as abominations who are only a step away from chaos corruption. A more moderate Inquisitor might look the other way for any number or reasons. Perhaps he'd see it as a common disease to be cured or something strange to be sure but still within acceptable parameters. A pragmatic one would simply use them when convenient and then discard them.

>>52236757
It's the guy who founded this site and ruled over it until about a year and a half ago you idiot.

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>>52236728
I guess they thought it was a...
Moot Point

>>52236757

Newfags get out

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How do we fix the razorshark and the sunshark?

>>52236950
What, the Asian guy?

>>52234583
This.
Also how would the Magos Biologis react if you asked them to operate a sex change? Do they even have the time for this?

>>52237646
>Also how would the Magos Biologis react if you asked them to operate a sex change?
He'd probably call you an unimaginative amateur and tell you to fuck off.

>>52223264
You dont. Know what gaslight means

>>52237105
Easy:
1. put the model where it belongs (the trash)
2. remove flyers from the game
3. ?????????
4. profit

>>52223222
>transgendered folks considered heretics?
Well Celestin and Greyfax looks like males with tits, so I guess nope.

>>52223222
Don't argue with Tumblr idiots. Don't go to Tumblr.

Who gives a shit?

Are you rich and an Inquisitor? Who cares about your sexual orientation when it's not a filthy xeno and you still praise the Emprah.

Are you poor and cannonfodder for the IoA? Other than being mocked, no one still gives a shit.

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Ayo hit me up with da gud stuf

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>>52239039

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>>52239045

>>52237179
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
GET OUT

>>52223236
I would follow that commissar into the jaws of the warp itself if he so ordered.

Pronouns are closed-class, and by the Emperor's Light we will keep our language functional!

>>52223239
Slaanesh being for it is a pretty fucking major reason for anyone not chaos to be against it.

Actually, as I recall, most of Slaanesh's champions end up a little half-and-half themselves, and Daemonettes are "gender-fluid" I believe?

Seems like a surefire way to catch the inquisition's eye if you start justice-warrioring it.

>>52223373
This is because - and this is important - the Chaos Gods do not shape people as a whole... People shape the Chaos Gods. Tzeench is that accumulation of ALL the people wanting change and hoping to overthrow the status-quo. Nurgle is the accumulation of ALL the lifeforms wishing to survive, and so on.

>>52223426
I for one believe I definitely shouldn't have that empty space made of just cloth with nothing there!

>>52239113
Slaaneshi cultists/daemons might aswell be all genders, at the same time

>>52234328
Very likely the case; Only people with no other worries will even notice something like "I don't feel I should be a man". Imperial Guardsmen in particular are a little too busy feeling "Emperor it hurts why did they make one with so many fucking teeth".

And the poor son of a bitch doesn't even know there's things out there with yet more teeth; this gundrone's not even a tyranid!

>>52234509
I can assure you the Eagle Scouts would be *all* for female members.

Except a handful of them who are happier with each-other, but that just means less competition to deal with.

>>52234653
I call bullshit.
There's no way his favorite boys to peg aren't Boyz.

>Wot? Wots you doin to me arse?
>TAKE IT YOU FILTHY ANIMAL! SHUT YOUR MOUTH AS I KRUMP YOUR ASS LIKE NEVER KRUMPED BEFORE! WAAAAAAGH!

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>>52239219