Have you ever played a campaign where NATURE was the main villain?

>>52219125
No, that would be stupid.

>>52219226
In a land where nature can be personified by sapient beings, there's no reason they can't take extremist positions or commit evil actions like all other sapients.

>>52219226

> Industrialism vs Naturalism isn't the second best axis of conflict.

>>52219241
You could probably equate the wilderness to danger and the unknown, and have the about the players be agents for civilization and human reason

>>52219235
>Nature, in the broadest sense, is the natural, physical, or material world or universe. "Nature" can refer to the phenomena of the physical world, and also to life in general. The study of nature is a large part of science. Although humans are part of nature, human activity is often understood as a separate category from other natural phenomena.

You could have SOME aspects of nature acting as villains, but not Nature itself, it would be too illogical.

>>52219345
Actually, that'd be very easy to make a game from. You would just need to make the player not!gnostic mystics rebelling against physicality in search of a higher truth, or something of the sort.

>>52219125
Just take the concept of a death world and apply it to your game. It could be an encroaching force that is infecting the wilderness, it could just be how that one jungle on that one continent is.

Everything there is a predator and everything is hostile.

>>52219241
Sooo what's the first?

>>52219125

Yes. Most hex crawls and West Marches games are ultimately base vs. nature games at heart.

>>52219125
Every day of my life.

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>>52219397
>Actually, that'd be very easy to make a game from. You would just need to make the player not!gnostic mystics rebelling against physicality in search of a higher truth, or something of the sort.

Wouldn't being gnostics would make players the main villains.

Demiurge did nothing wrong

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>>52219274
This. There's an inclination among modern western society that nature=good, without realizing that many of the greatest human triumphs (the invention of vaccines, Norman Borlaug's dwarf wheat, the invention/discovery of domestication and animal husbandry just to name a few) were in direct contradiction of what is natural. Also, pic related, nature is not nice.

>>52220695
Thats because of the romantic movement in literature.

>>52219397

>"From my point of view, the druids are evil!"
>"Than you are lost!"

>>52220695
It's more "Hey guys, we kinda need these things to live, could you please stop shitting all over the planet? No? Ok."

Nature is not "good" or "nice", but unrestrainment "enlightenment" led mostly by greed is gonna finish us off as a race a whole lot faster.

>>52220813
Nature is literally chaotic neutral. It cares not for humans as a species, so why should we be tree huggers? We should manage (not love) nature so long as it serves our needs.

Coming back to OP, yes, Nature is an uncaring villain, who is capricious, callous and ruthless. She despises the Weak, the Helpless and the Sick. She favors those who will do anything to survive. She rewards those who specialize in nature, only to turn her back on them when the seasons change. She's a bitch.

>>52219125
Does it count if the campaing takes place in Australia?

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I'm currently putting together a Delta Green campaign where oil is the villain. As in petroleum.

Oil is an inherently terrifying thing, if you think about it from the right angle. It's trillions of organisms, dead and buried and compressed into liquid. It's concentrated death, and it fuels basically everything. You're in contact with billion year old dead animals right now.

The underlying story is basically that oil is a malignant intelligence that's ensnared humanity and instills a subconscious death-drive in all living things. They'll first catch wind at an oil rig where everyone on board suddenly committed suicide with whatever equipment they had on hand, and eventually to a cult in Iran planning to engage the planetary death drive with a false flag nuke and ensuing world war.

>>52219125
I mean, most monsters can either be magical or natural in origin. In settings where they are natural beings, I guess the main villain could be the world itself and its inhuman inhabitants.

>>52219125
https://youtu.be/VBB8gagV3Xs?t=66

Start at 1:04

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Nature is a cunt always trying to keep mankind down.

Only reason we're still alive is by augmenting our capabilities with our inventions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3472Q6kvg0

>>52219125

The first elf in my homebrew is the BBEGirl.
Elves themselves are monsterous too.

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>>52219125
No. Nature can be a threat, of course, but that's not the same as being a villain. Nature doesn't scheme or organize. Anything dangerous related to industrialism, be it extreme polution from a factory, deforestation or stripmining, or paid goons beating up anyone or anything standing in the way of profit/progress, can be tied to one larger villain.

Meanwhile, a pack of wolves is just a pack of wolves doing wolf things. A fun side threat, sure, but not really plot material.

That's kinda how real life goes. Unless you're talking about a shallow definition of "nature" where you're talking about the trees and grass. To me, industrialization is a part of nature.

Fighting against nature is basically what idealism is. If you want to end suffering and imperfection, then nature is your enemy.

Asphodel did nothing wrong

reanimate the civilized races, manikin war now

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>>52223551
In fairness, a lot of people on both "sides" conflate "nature" with "the environment", which is how we ended up with a bunch of HFYfags idolizing Captain Planet villains.

That said, defining "nature" as "the state of the world" is so broad that it becomes a bit too abstract for most settings. Unless you're playing in a Fallen London campaign and trying to enact the Liberation of Night, I guess.

>>52223238
But wouldn't it be interesting if nature could plan and scheme. An interconnected sentient forest with the goal of spreading and taking over as much land as possible would be a villain wouldn't it?

>>52224210
>interconnected sentient forest

Eywa please go.

>>52224267
>>52224210
I liked this plot better when it was Blue Gender, a pity the writers sided with the villain

>>52224210
Well, that's not really nature anymore, is it? That's just an invasive species, 'cause it's just as dangerous to other parts of nature as it is to humans.

I wish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCAUpxLfCbo

I had a game once where a minor villain was a druid obsessed with the "cycle of life" to the point of murdering a couple towns with ravenous beasts just because the humans "weren't strong enough to survive"

>>52220942
Somewhat related, all the major oil deposits date to very specific geological periods in Permian and Mesozoic. Specifically, they are connected to periods of major ocean anoxic events, which both kill off most marine animals and provide conditions for organic matter to be preserved. Ocean anoxic events are caused primarily by global warming (warmer water can hold less oxygen). Which ironically means burning fossil fuels facilitates the very conditions oil deposits were formed at.

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>>52219125
>implying nature isn't a villain IRL
Nature doesn't have the concept of mercy OR justice, and the "dog-eat-dog" ideology that is encouraged by the nature is literally Max Stirner tier.
Humans are perfectly in their right to subjugate the nature to their whims.
Destroying nature is stupid, but enslaving it? There lies the true wisdom.

>>52219125
The one where OP struggles against his latent homosexuality?

>>52224529
and why should it not be a part of nature?
The balance you see is only a temporary one. Nature is constant conflict for resources, and if one species destroys all the others? that means that it's just better adapted to that environment.

>>52225103
>Wanting to enslave nature
Spooks

>>52219125
Any wilderness survival game or game about surviving natural disasters

>>52225103
>Nature doesn't have the concept of mercy OR justice
Do you?

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>>52225296
If one species destroys all others then it has effectively ruined its own environment, most likely ensuring its own imminent doom. The most successful predators have adapted to not consume more resources than their surroundings can sustain.

>>52226705
>The most successful predators have adapted to not consume more resources than their surroundings can sustain.
sure, because all the ones that didn't stop lost their food sources and died out
adapted to environment =/= long term survival, only that their offspring have a larger share of the following gene pool

>>52226748
>adapted to environment =/= long term survival
Fundamentally disagree. It doesn't matter how few predators are out for your kids if you all starve to death.

>>52220920
Under rated comment

>>52220942
>oil as a malignant intelligence.
I´m reminded of the Black oil from X Files which is bassicaly bloood of some alien species which they use a medium for their woen reproduction, smehow. It can infest or posses people who come into contact with it or drink it, so it is a body-horror and infestestation/ inflitration themed threat. A vaccine can be devolped against and some people are genetically immune to it, however.

>>52226000
trips dont lie

You could have Nature be an antagonist, but not really an evil villain.

>>52226000
>Mercy - "one should act unto other kinder than one would act unto himself".
>Justice - "one should receive reward/punishment appropriate to his achievements/misdeeds".
It's not fucking rocket science, you smug bastard.

>>52219241
Maybe it is.

But if Industrialism wins the conflict, we all die.

If Nature wins, we can survive.

Having Nature as the main villain is stupid.

>>52227849
>If Nature wins
we'll also be dead

the only way to survive is to find a middle ground between those, or make ourselves independent of nature

>>52219125
Wait about seventy years, anon. You'll be living it.

>>52220813
Resources exist to be consumed. And consumed they will be, if not by this generation then by some future. By what right does this forgotten future seek to deny us our birthright? None I say! Let us take what is ours, chew and eat our fill.

>>52219125
I want to have sex with Nature

Nature and civilization are in a balance. Humans are part of nature so they don't need to be exterminated but if they cause too much damage they need to be trimmed back. Just have a coven of crazy Druids start attacking villages and cities.

>>52219125
Man against nature is one of the four staple conflicts, so I don't see why anyone would ever have a problem with it.

>>52227502
Fuck off back to /k/

>>52219125
Only a weak pussy thinks nature is an antagonist or a protagonist. Nature simply is, and there's no such thing as unnatural. Cutting down a tree is natural. Disemboweling someone for cutting down a tree is natural. Everything is natural.

>>52219125
Nature can't be a villain. An embodiment of nature can, but nature as a whole doesn't have agency.

>>52230832
Well, no. Eldritch horrors are non-natural.

>>52230735
Sorry, I left the name on while I was making fun of the real one, I'm not actually him.

>>52230866
Depends on your definition of "villain"

>>52230899
Depends on your definition of "natural"

>>52230953
Oh. Good. I was about to start screeching autistically.

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>>52224210
>>52224529

>>52219125
No, but I've planned one. To sum it up, bla bla bla fey bargin, bla bla bla royal family, bla bla bla giant tree now threatens all existance, bla bla there is no good end only the encroaching forest. Powder fantasy with a good excuse for strange woodland stuff, and a plague slowly turning people into trees.

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>>52219125
I was part of this thread.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/46417158/

In my experience, Nature itself is too impersonal to provide a good villain. Players need a face to focus on.

In african folklore, Nature is evil, but more like a place of chaos and lair to anything that isn't human, from scorpions and lions to witches and too many varieties of people-swallowers. Kinda like one doesn't fight Chaos itself in WH40K, no one fights Nature, just its denizens.

nature is always the enemy
it wants you killed to create new life
everywhere
all the time

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>>52230832
What about the undead? Are those natural?

>>52232708
AdMech please go.

Read Uprooted. A dryad is a major player.

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>>52219125
No but If I would I'll set it in old timey Japan, give the humans somewhat good fire arms and explosives, make sure that the players understand that there will be no winners in this war if they take a side

>>52219125
I thought about making a campaign based around an Earth Mother and her Three Daughters which are objectively evil.

They personify Fire, Ice and Nature.

Basically just ripping off TW3.

>>52233165
>Did you even watch that movie? Old and venerable godly nature is being destroyed by humans, corrupted into demons by humans, ravaged by humans.
>It fights back and loses.
>Somehow the villain.

Hell
>Miazaki film
>Nature bad
Pick one

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I always thought of a setting about Vietnam era marines fighting elf led amazons in an earth taken over by jungle.

The soldiers used a sort of super agent orange and instead of giving them cancer it turn them into mutants. Shit like beastmen,insectmen,orcs(thick skin and they lose some of their intelligence.

but thats kinda it

>>52235700

You gonna expand on this shit?

>>52235700

Why did you include elves and orc though? Seems like a good setting without them

>>52219125
Just Human Nature...

>>52234518
That's literally the central conflict though. Nature is shown as uncaring for the weak's struggle. Enslaving nature was shown to be necessary for the weak and dispossesed to have a chance in life

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>>52219125
cWoD W:TA, Black Spiral Dancers.

>>52236269
Ah yes, nature the uncaring thing that just exists vs the good guys whose ammunition corrupts and curses the things it impacts into monstrous engines of death set on the destruction of everything nearby.

>>52219125
No, but I attempted to draft one up during my earlier days of playing DnD. It never got finished, and it's cringeworthy shit now, but it actually was going to be some high-level stuff that ends in someone waking up the Tarrasque in order to wipe out all of civilization in some massive area.

>>52236269
>implying the weak and dispossessed should have a chance at life

>>52219345
What? In a world with gods of nature of various kinda, they could just be very wrathful.

"Ok, humans have killed too many wolves. They're now going to be born with thicker skins, bigger fangs and be 40 feet tall! Muahahah!"

-Happy Nature Goddess

>>52223950
Ayoooo hold up

Is there a Fallen London publication? I only know of the browser game and Sunless Sea.

>>52220942

Like this?
http://www.viruscomix.com/page564.html

Or this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACHVwA1D8fE

>>52237620
Wait, sorry.
I meant this:
http://www.viruscomix.com/page505.html

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>>52237012
Officially? No, although people keep telling Failbetter that they want one.

There is, however, a fan-made adaptation using FATE. I'm not familiar with the system, though, so I couldn't tell you how good it is.

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>>52239189

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>>52239201

>>52230965
>>52219125


We might as well not talk about anything at all if we're basing it on personal definitions. How about we agree to base our discussion on an idea of nature" that appeals to the majority?

>>52227849
>Industrialism wins the conflict, we all die
No, we enter a post scarcity "Star Trek" economy.
>If Nature wins
We are just another set of fossils that animal intelligences occasionally trip over when hillsides erode.

>>52237620
Winston is such a whiny cunt now

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>>52224813
This could go one of two ways.

>Game where you fight the ebil colonialists as the noble savages with nature powers

OR

>Game where you fight savages empowered by vile pagan nature gods who are sabotaging human progress

It'll almost definitely be the first, but the second would be SO refreshing. Of course, these days, pagans, nature, and savages can never be villainous or even neutral, they're always the good guys.

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>>52219125
I'm developing a setting right now where one of the central conflicts is civilization versus savagery. It's not a 1:1 to what you're suggesting, as "nature" is pretty neutral, but there are die-hard pagans led by druids who are in a permanent state of on-and-off warfare with the civilized kingdoms and republics. The pagans think civilization is an offense to the gods, and both the mainline monotheistic church and the not!Gnostic heretic kingdoms believe firmly in the dominion of people over nature. They don't hate nature per se, but they do support taming it and bending it to mankind's will.

>>52219125
Yeah. They were trying to make their way to civilization through a new land, far north with winter cold on their heels. They were battling the elements, starvation, infection and on one or two occasions wildlife. Didn't run long, only a few sessions in total but it was fun. The thing about nature is that it is the enemy. It absolutely is your enemy.

>>52219125
>be a living thing
>be your own enemy

>>52240708
"What is Autoimmunity?" for 1500, Alex

>>52235923

I just wanna have a reason for having elf amazons

>>52236826
If someone is weakened by no fault of their own, do they not deserve a second chance?

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How would you fight it? Pollute a lot? Build suburbs that are impossible to cross without a car?

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>>52235700
>'Nam marines vs. amazon elves

nice

>>52220942
Sounds pretty interesting.

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>>52219125
Sort of. I was working on a modern-themed campaign where magic suddenly appeared in the world and it caused nature to rebel against humanity. Mostly in the form of titan-sized elementals that started causing havoc with natural catastrophes. Hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc.

I shelved it to do other things.

>>52219125
OF FUCKING COURSE.

One of my favorite goddamn macguffins was the holy fruit grown in a dark forest.

The fruit is a lure, you see, to draw the foolhardy and desperate in so their blood may feed the roots.

>>52219125
There's a pretty interesting nature adventure described in one of the pyramid magazines. The villain is a very old and very angry druid.

Civilization takes and keeps taking land from nature, until nature gets pissed and fights back. Only thing i can think of.

>>52240315
This. Has someone ever succesfully DMed a game colonization related game without it devolving into Pocahontas 2.0? Is it just too much against modern sensibilities?

I'm not saying that Cortez or Custer did nothing wrong, but there's adventure and excitement to be had in playing people like them.

>>52240072
>now

>>52219125

The closest i've ever been is one concept i've been working on. One day i noticed that Elves in fiction are often a lot like 19th century Germany. They had a great and powerful empire in the past, but now that is lost and/or scattered and the remaining elves are for the most part more focused on enlightened pursuits like art and music, altough they remain a sleeping giant. Why is this interesting? Because we know what Germany did in the 20th century.
So yeah, the elves got their life in order and rebuilt their empire, had some conflicts with the neighbours, and slowly turned more militaristic and xenophobic untill war was inevitable. Only instead of being motivated by politics like WW1, or national socialism like WW2, they built their own totalitarian ideology around nature and preserving it, especially from these filthy humans with their burgeoning industry. Although those mining dwarfs should also learn their place. To do that, their got all their special druidic magic to beef up nature, and themselves since they are part of nature.

TL;DR Elves got their ancient empire back together and became naturenazi's with magic hax.

that's fairly similar to how a lot of african mythologies work. The Bush is a foe with its claws turned against you, the wild and the man cannot coexist and man must prove himself superior to the wild or he will be consumed by it.

>>52239189
Hold the phone, call me a newfag if you must, but how long have we been able to upload .pdfs to 4chan? Is it exclusive to /tg/ or have I been living under a rock?

>>52244060
Honestly, I want to. The simple fact is that the Aztecs had it coming anyway, and in North America the colonization conflicts were FAR more grey than is normally portrayed. Yes, a lot of the colonists were dicks, but so were the natives.

Truthfully, in a lot of cases, conflict arose because colonists and natives thought they'd come to an understanding, only for it to turn out that they had wildly different understandings of the way property worked. As a result, each side was COMPLETELY justified in their own mind, because by all appearances the other side had just screwed them over.

It would be very easy to have a really fun neutral campaign as not!Conquistadors, and let the players decide how far they're willing to go for gold and God. It would also be easy to have even a good campaign where the players are trying to handle a conflict between natives and settlers - maybe one of the tribes is trying to stir the others up to wipe out the settlers, and it's up to the party to take them down without setting off a full-on war between settlers and natives.

Lots of potential if one avoids Pocahontas BS.

>>52249949
I've got pdfs from 4chan saved back in 2013, so I think you haven't been sleeping under a rock so much as been entombed below a quarry, anon.

>>52236511
The bullets didn't corrupt but the fact that they we're dying did.

Like all things nothing want to die. So theses "gods" thought they were hot shit until *BAM*.
They got shot. They're gods but they're dying. Which piss them off. Their whole race is getting *BAM*. Which pisses them off even more. Their homes are getting destroy to make more *BAM*. Now they're MAD as FUCK.
Their anger they feel for the humans and the fear of death is what corrupted them.

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How could a face like that be evil?

>>52220813
Anon, _we_ are part of nature too. Emergence of the human species was when nature started gaining intelligence and self-awareness. The Internet, our creation, is basically becoming Earth's central nervous system. Our current enviromental troubles are simply Earth going trough its crazy college years of drinking and partying too much. Thankfully we're starting to grow out of it.

So "man vs. (god of) nature" scenario could be played as a "the rightful King is of age but the regent refuses to step down" -scenario for a campaign with truly epic consequences (basically, Singularity of some type). Or even "the regent plots to murder the King as a kid" for a continuing one.

Also, it's worth noting that without us and the Enlightenment, the (real) world is doomed to die with the Sun. It has maybe a few hundred million years to go before being scorched.

>>52244060
>Not wanting to play pocahontas 2.0
What can you expect
From filthy knife eared heathens?
Here's what you get when the races are diverse
They use dead leaves as beds
They're only good when dead
They're vermin, as I said
And worse

They're savage elves! Savage elves!

Barely even human

Savage elves! Savage elves!

Drive them from our shore!
They're not like you and me
Which means they must be evil
We must sound the drums of war!

>>52219125
Not a villian but nature of men was a reason behind a lot of hooks.

>>52232954
>are undead natural?
In a setting where undead exist, probably.
In a setting where undead can spontaneously rise, definitely.

>>52236826
>social darwinism
A society where the weak die is one where I have to waste attention and effort to avoid being weak. I'll live in constant fear of failure.
A society where the weak are taken care of is one where I can focus on advancing my own or humanity's interests or just shitposting on the Internet, whichever strikes my fancy. I'll live in comfort and safety.

So yes, Anon, the weak should get all the help they need. My own rational self-interest demands it.

>>52236989
Imagine more of a beginning of the industrial revolution like setting, and nature just saying fuck you this shit ends now.

>>52245881
>Only instead of being motivated by politics like WW1, or national socialism like WW2, they built their own totalitarian ideology around nature and preserving it, especially from these filthy humans with their burgeoning industry.
Nazis were really into nature, as well.
In fact, they once fined a biologist for not giving enough anesthesia to worms.

They also wanted to make a huge ass forest spreading from Bielowitza(after they killed off all the invasive races inhabiting the area, of course)

>>52219491

Probably outright good vs evil or chaos vs law

>>52239672
No, these can both actually be things that depend on the style of campaign and setting, "Villain" much more so.

Are your players fighting against something constructed by a single person / small group (Angry avatar of nature, a corrupted druidic circle), or are they fighting against an idea / area (Naturalism vs. Industrialism, exploration / survival-based setting)

>>52230550
dark

>>52219125
My current kings of war campaign is basically

>Green Lady looks at world of ruined factions tearing each other and themselves apart constantly
>Undead on the rise, elves dying out, humanity more divided than ever, orcs and shit are a thing now, Dwarves are super isolationist and expansionist
>Decides to rouse the forces of nature and obliterate the Noble Races and the rest of the rabble for a new world
>Naiads, Salamanders, Forest Spirits and Sylphs will be the new inhabitants of a world ruled by her and kept in perfect balance for the good of the world, each one ministering a different part of the world, ensuring its safe and balanced
>Build armies for consistently larger games in a storyline progression as you and your allies of desperation struggle to push back the forces of nature as you fight to survive against the literal land beneath your feet

I'm having fun.