/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

>>52208290
Quick, I need info on how to optimize.

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>>52208253
>an eternally angry man suffering near-constant heart attacks, further fueling his rage at the world, unable even to dream of anything but his unending fury
Sounds like a fun guy to have in the party. Make sure he's an Elf for immunity to magical Sleep.

Hey, Syllabrent, how you doin'?
>ALL I KNOW IS TORMENT
Uh, yeah. The rest of the guys and I were going to hit the inn. You down?
>RAGE IS MY ONLY SUSTENANCE
Okay... well, we still need a designated carriage driver in case we all get too sloshed.
>THESE FRENZIED EYES WILL NEVER KNOW REST

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How do I play to the strengths of an infernal warlock?

>>52208363
Shoot purple lasers at everyone and fuck them if they dare hit you.

>>52208307
go check the Pathfinder Core Rulebook

What's a nuclear druid?

>>52208363
>warlock

spam eldritch blast

>>52208403
>warlocks only exist in combat.
Also, the spam eldritch blast meme is bad and you should feel bad. You don't tell fighters or paladins to spam melee attack.

>>52208402
A Twilight Druid that uses Harvest's Scythe to add a bunch of damage to a spell damage roll. Since Magic Missile rolls for damage once and then does that damage for each missile fired, Harvest's Scythe is essentially a damage multiplier, not an addition.

>>52208426
>You don't tell fighters or paladins to spam melee attack.
But they do it all the same.

http://www.strawpoll.me/12540480

This one's pretty tight. Hexblade and GOOlock are roughly tied for the lead, with poor little Seeker getting nothing.

>>52208448
So how do I play to the strengths of my devotion paladin?

>>52208426
>don't tell Warlocks to use their best cantrip
>don't tell fighters to the thing they can do reliably well

What did he mean by this?

>>52208402
It's a druid/wizard build that plays upon a quirk of Harvest Scythe and Magic Missile. The Harvest scythe lets you add 1d10 extra damage per hit when you cast a spell. Rather than cast a strong single shot like a fireball, you shoot off 20+ odd missiles each doing the bonus damage each which adds up very quickly.

Can someone please clarify for me the paladin/warlock melee dps build? Thanks

>>52208426
Because spamming melee attack isn't effective (outside of Smites) and does nothing new. Spamming Eldritch Blast IS effective and can knock enemies all over the place.

Can a quarterstaff be used as an arcane focus and visa-versa?

>>52208463
I think he meant, besides from eldritch blast which is the obvious default, how else does one play to a warlock's strengths especially outside of combat.

So people seem to be under the consensus that mystics are too good or too versatile.

I suggest that they should be allowed to keep their versatility but I think their abilities should be lower in overall power to compensate for versatility.
This is because in addition to their abilities being versatile they also are not spells nor do they require components as spells do.
This means you can't disable a mystic as easily as you can a caster. Additionally, you have a lot more potential to RP in situations where casting a spell wouldn't be a good idea. The only caster that can do something similar is a sorcerer with subtle spell. But here mystics essentially have subtle spell, but all the time, and for free.

Thoughts?

>>52208458
Paladins have lots of passives, but also more spell slots. Make sure your party knows how they can benefit from your passives and save your slots for when you want to nova (or you score a crit). Otherwise spam your melee attack.

Same for warlocks, minus the passives. Abuse the shit out of EB, pick useful invocations that you can abuse, and save your slots for when you want to nova something/apply a worthwhile effect.

>>52208494
>Can a quarterstaff be used as an arcane focus and visa-versa?

Yes. Unless the staff specifically says otherwise.

>>52208402
It's a Twilight Druid poaching Magic Missile somehow.
MM rolls damage once and applies it to all missiles, Twilight Druid adds up to half his level in d10 to one damage instance, it's an easy combo that works twice per long rest.
It begins at level 3, with 2 castings of 4d4+4+4d10 (avg. 36) force damage.

Important enemies better have a brooch of shielding/shield spell (but you'll counterspell that), and the rest of the time, you still have a full Druid's spell list to play with.

Trying to add more morally grey situations in my campaign, don't want to railroad players into it but still want some of those to potentially pop up. Problem is I'm not one hundred percent sure how to do them well to where it isn't the old comic book do you save your side kick or the girl?

>>52208464
>paladin/warlock melee dps
you could just grab a smiting invocation tho, and be a pure warlock or warlock/sorceror.
unless you don't want to be blade pact, but it's not such a big deal, and you get not to multiclass or to do a better multiclass.

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>A new DM who is having trouble with story telling.

So the campaign is set in the forgotten realms but I am so new to it all that I am not too familiar with the lore and history so I decided to make some shit up based on what I did know.

I feel the players are having fun at the moment, but I keep adding some strange plot device with each session, making it seem layered.

it could just be me freaking out, but I don't want the PCs to feel the story is too complicated, is there any tips from DMs and players more used to this sort of stuff?

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>>52208363
The turret class? You're probably gonna spam eldritch blast.

Serious answer: If you want to do anything fun, play ANY other caster.

>>52208504
They're probably not as strong as GWM fighters, and don't have as much utility as a Wizard.
Who cares if they're good?

>>52208494
No, a quarterstaff is a weapon meant for striking and parrying, an arcane focus is meant for channeling your power into spells. Having them be the same thing is incredibly strong, meaning you get a free hand for a shield or something else.

>>52208567
make it so there is no clear right answer either way and both sides have some kind of merit and flaw.

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>>52208426
>Pictured: Warlock without Eldritch Blast

>>52208584
Right, I'm not suggesting they have a strong RAW damage output. And I think that's fine.

The thing about wizards and other casters is they are quite limited by the rules of casting. That's all.

I feel as though I could easily fuck with a campaign as a mystic without trying so much only because of their fairly powerful effects they can pull of without lifting a finger to show that they were the ones who did so.

In other words, not only are they (in their current state) quite good mechanically, but also their potential outside of combat is also quite good in a way I don't think many have considered.

>>52208578
how many plot devices have you introduced?
what do they do?

>>52208578
Write it down.

Also try not to give too much of a shit about Forgotten Realms lore. It's paralyzingly huge.

>>52208578
Layered means it could be covered in lore and background, there is a group of people such as myself who like that.

Even if it's layered doesn't mean it's too complicated, basically you just need the shot caller of the party to know what's going on and people tend to follow suit.

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How would i go about emulating Demifiend in 5e? Homebrew classes are allowed

>>52208578
If I were you I would say don't make the mistake of leaving everything open ended.
You should get around to tying up certain story elements. And players often like to experience closure from time to time.

And occasionally you can fuck with them some more by reopening old plotlines in unexpected ways if you find yourself inspired. "Oh you thought you'd seen the last of Captain Banditman? The guards are scrambling trying to figure out how he escaped the city's prison."

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>>52208290
Haven't played 5e in a year

Can someone give me a quick rundown on nuclear druid?

>>52208652

>>52208537
>>52208436
>>52208464

>>52208652
It's multiclassing using unofficial UA so it's unbalanced as shit. Surprise surprise.

Basically you multiclass a twilight druid with an arcana cleric to gain access to magic missile. Then you spend lots of resources and deal a fuck ton of damage because of the way you calculate magic missile damage and the way twilight druid's harvest scythe feature is worded.

What is a nuclear druid?

What is a radioactive druid?

>>52208667
fuck im a retard

did I accidentally just meme

>>52208363
Ignore the morons. As a warlock, you get access to the most "at-will" type features of any class. You can cast disguise self at will, levitate at will, summon imps at will, which do things for you at will. You get the best cantrip, and can have the most of any class except maybe a bard. You can give yourself gills at will, or summon illusions at will too.

To top it all off, you still get access to 9th level casting eventually, get more 5th level spell slots than anyone. As a warlock, you should always have something to do in your turns more interesting than eldritch blasting someone, but the great thing is, eldritch blasting someone can be an interesting option too. You can push people with it, pull people with it, slow them down with it, etc.

So to play an infernal warlock, first I need to know what you want to do with it. Odds are you can.

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>>52208710
>You get more weak features than any other caster and less strong ones!

>>52208363

Ok now hat the peanut gallery is done telling you to spam EB Ill tell how the Warlock is played

First know the campaign your going into and the DMs style. Honestly you could end up as an EB turret if you have a DM that doesnt let you get sufficient Short rests or access to Magic items you actually want and that makes the Warlock a pretty poor choice. If you can get ahold of a Rod of the Pact Keeper your save DCs will shoot up above he curve pretty noticeably and then your pretty much the Debuff king. You actually have a reason too use concentration spells other than Hex and contribute as more than a glorified archer especially when getting more mid-level spells than normal with sufficient short rests

Dont get too blasty with the Fiend spells either.Wall of Fire is only nice in confined spaces or when you can force enemies to have to take damage multiple times from it and EB knockback can often be critical.Fireball and Stink cloud will work similar nullifying a bunch of enemies at once with FB better as a glorified sleep taking out weak enemies and Stink cloud better when your melee guys can engage enemies at the boarders and try to force them to stay in it. Flame strike is utter shit Blindness/Deafness is a nice scaling no concentration debuff and scorcing ray cna be used with Hex for a big burst damage opion if you really wanna nova

>>52208750
>wizards have to wait until the theoretical "late game" that nobody ever has ever reached to be able to cast spells at will
>warlocks can do it at level 2

Get cucked m8. Warlocks are great if you're creative.

>>52208766
>Making a build reliant on a magic item.

Haha wow... it's like you don't know the first thing about character building, holy shit.


Ok, here's the real advice.
First know the campaign your going into and the DMs style. Honestly you will end up as an EB turret. If you want to have fun, Warlock is a poor choice.

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>>52208648
>>52208622

At the moment, they have just finished a thing with a young girl running away from home to live with a Dryad in the forest.

It was resolved by the PCs saying they would help with something if the Dryad convinced her to go back home (she was adopted)

After that, they went into the forest which was basically blight infested and stumbled into the fey wild.

basically what I had in mind from this point is that the forest used the blight like a scab for a wound and the fey wilds presences is such a rare thing it only happens once every 100,000 years with something called a convergence. When the party entered the fey wild they were branded with a rune on the back of their hands and after learning a few things from a satyr who explained that a prince had paid for his wish to be granted and it was inevitable that monsters and such would come from the fey into the real world..

I'm planning on giving them a choice if they do manage to kill the prince (they are really set on killing him). They can either get a wish, knowing hundreds of people had been sacrifices and monsters will ravage the country side, or stop the convergence and get nothing.

>>52208567
Play Dragon Age: Origins, it's full of them.

>is it justified to use evil magic to escape an evil situation?
>do you betray and ensure the death of one person to save millions?
>would you turn your back on a friend to secure a political alliance you could use for greater good?
>is the murder of a criminal justified if they'll never be brought to justice?
>is it better to maintain and preserve traditions and keep an empire safe, or break with form and open yourselves to risk from the outside, while opening up new opportunities?
>is it better to side with an evil person prepared to help you defeat a worse evil, or side with a good person who will offer you no aid?

>>52208834
Except no matter what you choose, it turns out alright in the end.

>>52208834
>>do you betray and ensure the death of one person to save millions?
Reminder that Loghain was an idiot and did everything wrong. Literally everything he could fuck up, he did.

>>52208363
Get your DM to approve the recent Warlock UA. Get that invocation that gives you a fly cloak. Go Pact Warlock. Be a molten haze of horror that moves through combat. Cast Darkness on yourself while having Devil's Sight. The enemies will never see you, only hear the flies swarming.

>>52208786

>>Know what your likely to come across in a game or certain classes might not be as fun

>>RRRREEEE WARLOCK SUCKS YOU DUM DUM POOPYHEAD


Wow

You the same asshole bitching about the Warlock all over the thread in a manner that leads me to believe that a Warlock once touched you in a way that made you uncomfortable?

Yeah piggy knowing what your DM is willing to do in a game is imporant.So DMs might nerf the wizard by being overly restrictive on aquiring new spells and things like that. Its good to know what your getting into and the Warlock is a particular class that improves significantly in the right campaign

Do you understand? You can nod if its too hard for you to accknowldge

I want to use static initiative, how should I handle it?

>Dex
>Dex + Proficiency
>Dex + Level
>Dex mod
>Dex mod +Proficiency
>Dex mod + Level
>Level
>New stat
>Dependant on class

>>52208889
Start with the fastest character and then just go clockwise around the table.

>>52208855
Actually, it was a nice breath of fresh air that helping a nice guy (Harrowmont) resulted in a disaster no matter if he had the anvil or not, while helping a ruthless schemer benefited the country. Even with the anvil, he uses the artifact of doom responsibly and shuts the whole thing down when it gets too dangerous.

>>52208905
Yeah, thats the idea, but how will I know who is the fastest? And my idea is make people sit on the table in the order of initiative

>>52208868
But he felt he was making the right choice. From the perspective of the player, he was a fool. From his own perspective, the King was wasting the armies against a small Darkspawn uprising in the name of glory, when the Orlesians posed a constant threat at the border. After all, he'd spent his whole life fighting Orlesians, and darkspawn blights were bordering on myth from the past.

>>52208855
Well, yes and no. Alistair can end up drunk or dead, the Warden can end up dead (as a hero), by persuading the dwarves to embrace the surface world they get badly damaged in a war later on (from what I remember), you can kill Leliana (pls no Inquisition), Zevran, Shale, Sten(?). The political world can be left in ruins if you disrupt the big meeting they have, even if you sort it out a bit afterwards. Leaving Anora alone leaves her vulnerable.

Ultimately, whatever you do, the Blight is ended, but the aftermath can be a shitter.

I hate people who play rogues, /tg/. How do I do make a build that counters the shit Rogues try?

>>52208868
I'm with this guy on Loghain, true the King wasn't the brightest bulb but by abandoning him it created a division that paralyzed the country.

>>52208834
I'll have to try and adapt these, I've borrowed from some books and had an idea for atleast a couple but executing them will be different to say the least.

>>52208910
This is the kind of thing I'm trying to get, working in an NPC that is pretty much Lawful Evil, but in the end is far better for everyone even if he is a bastard.

>>52208951
Stealth Disadvantage and making yourself known to the group, but before you start hating rogues you should play one yourself to understand why you hate themed just the players that play them.

>>52208359
Rage still only lasts a minute. Funny guy until then, I guess.

>>52208951
As in fight them? Take the alert feat, my understanding of it was it negates the advantage of a sneak attack so the Rogue doesn't get the bonus dice.

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>>52208834
>is it justified to use evil magic to escape an evil situation?
Nah.
>do you betray and ensure the death of one person to save millions?
Nope.
>would you turn your back on a friend to secure a political alliance you could use for greater good?
Nuh-uh.
>is the murder of a criminal justified if they'll never be brought to justice?
No.
>is it better to maintain and preserve traditions and keep an empire safe, or break with form and open yourselves to risk from the outside, while opening up new opportunities?
This isn't a moral dilemma.
>is it better to side with an evil person prepared to help you defeat a worse evil, or side with a good person who will offer you no aid?
The good guy, duh.

Man, that was easy.

>>52208494
>Can a quarterstaff be used as an arcane focus and visa-versa?
No but an arcane focus staff can be used as a quarterstaff. Many of the magic item ones get a bonus to use for it too.

>>52208834
>Play Dragon Age: Origins

Different Anon here. Tried. Couldn't.

I was going along and being okay with things, but then Duncan or whatever the asshole's name is takes the three of us to become Gray Wardens or whatever (it's been awhile). The first guy who drinks demon blood dies, which was NOT advertised. The second guy tries to back out since he has a wife and kids, and Duncan kills him - which was ALSO not advertised, no one said you couldn't back out. Then the game forced me to drink the demon blood rather than back out of what was clearly a psychotic, debased cult.

To make matters worse, earlier I met the King, and he seemed like a pretty cool guy. Then the King dies, like, 30 minutes into the game max.

I wanted to go on cool adventures with the King, not get sucked into some kind of weird demon blood drinking cult. At least in Mass Effect when you're forced to join the Specters, you're a military officer by background, so if Earth orders you to join the Specters, well, orders are orders.

But I was just some elf rogue from an alienage who just wanted to stop her friend from getting raped. Next thing I know there's a demon-blood drinking cult trying to induct me?

Apparently when BioWare said "it's a game without a morality system", what they really meant was "it's a game where we railroad you into making what would have been, in our previous games, the Evil choices."

>>52208504
It is a fact that spells require components but it is not a balancing factor that the player's spells require components.

Unless someone knows about a monster that uses silence against the party which I'm unaware of, as an example.

>>52208684
A druid that wild-shapes into an earth elemental with a high amount of uranium ore in its body.

>>52208953
>>52208834

Oh yeah, and don't forget the whole mages and templars situation. People who are essentially walking tactical nukes - are the templars justified in mentally castrating the dangerous ones and borderline enslaving the rest?

>>52208931
I will admit he did truly believe he was taking the best course of action, I have a character for that, dwarf ambassador to the empire who wants to break from it during the chaos of the Emperor being assassinated. She believes it will be for the best but would lead to ruin due to cutting off a border area that keeps the hostile northern empire at bay. Along with Foulspawn and mindflayers attacking from below it'd cut the dwarven kingdoms support inadvertently.

I also do want it to be a possible moral compromise situation to help the greater good. Doesn't mean it always is the best option but it's either a) way easier or b) the last option other than pulling it off themselves because the other option got ruined some how.

>>52209015
Well, anon, you seem to realize that Duncan is ruthless. That was the intention. He also dies thirty minutes in, so what's your problem?

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>>52208979
MY BROTHER.

>>52209044
Don't do this. Templars vs Mages was the most boring, forced conflict in the game.
Somehow resolved off-screen in the third game.

>>52209044
>People who are essentially walking tactical nukes - are the templars justified in mentally castrating the dangerous ones and borderline enslaving the rest?
The Constitution protects the magically-inclined's rights to bear mana.

>>52209065
I don't know, maybe it's the FUCKING DEMON BLOOD HE FORCED ME TO DRINK THAT COULD HAVE KILLED ME. And the fact that I wasn't allowed to try and stop him from killing the second guy I mentioned. My issue isn't that Duncan is ruthless, my issue is that the game doesn't let me respond to his ruthlessness, but instead forces me to basically shrug and go along with it.

>>52209102
This is the problem with all "moral quandary" games: you're limited only to the resolutions, outcomes, and justifications that the writers intended.

>do I do this bad thing to stop this other bad thing
No, idiot, you find out how to do a good thing to stop the bad thing.

>>52208979
>Man, that was easy.
I mean, if you want to be a Lawful Stupid shit, yeah, it is.

>>52208979
>>52209073
>Lawful good

Meh I guess that's one way to play seeing everything in black and white.

So this is now a dragon age thread?

>>52209124
Apologies, all I wanted was ideas on how to make situations less black and white.

>>52209102
1) You would have died anyway, if Duncan didn't save you earlier. That's true for every origin. Yes, it doesn't make it right for him to put you on the risk of death later, but you could at least show a little gratitude.
2) Yes, you could respond to his ruthlessness. You couldn't back out from drinking blood, but that's because you would have been killed, and I guess they didn't feel like inserting a non-standard game over.

>>52209097
The constitution was made back when we only had cantrips, it wasn't meant to include 9th level spells Do you really want everyone to have access to meteor swarm?

>>52209123
I'm Neutral Good, son.
Nothing gets in my way of doing Good, and I reject your shitty notion of a "Greater Good" that can be reached by doing Evil.

>>52209090
I'm not the biggest fan of how the series went, but how can you claim it's forced? A high number of mages become abominations and slaughter those around them. You see them constantly, even untrained ones, like the girl and Kitty in the Shale expansion, or Connor and the Desire demon.

It makes sense to have to rein them in. But is it justified to wipe them out when you don't know how many are corrupted by demons?

>>52209140
If we outlaw Sniloc's Snowball Swarm, only outlaws will have Sniloc's Snowball Swarm. Then how will we defend ourselves against them OR a hypothetical tyrannical monarch?

>>52209031
Yeah, I'm thinking about this outside of combat. I know most people seem to think of balance in terms of combat ability.

Seriously, being able to do all these abilities with such subtlety is quite a boon.

>>52209114
But the thing is that Dragon Age: Origins was advertised as being BioWare's first RPG that didn't have a moral system in it. That you could make whatever choices you liked without mechanical consequences (though they may be RP ones).

Instead, however, I get the sense that when BioWare said "no moral system", what it really was, was an excuse for them to FORCE the player via railroading to make nothing but what would have, in their previous games, been Evil decisions, constantly force you into "lesser of two evil" situations.

The problem is that the lesser of two evils is still, BY DEFINITION, evil. If I'm playing a game where I'm forced to constantly make "lesser" evil choices, that's still a game where I'm forced to be evil - which means that the entire premise of DO:A is a lie.

>>52209117
It's only Lawful Stupid if it doesn't work.

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>>52209090
Hey, guess what, it IS the worst conflict in the game!

Guess what conflict my GM built his entire homebrew around? And then slanted the world in the favor of the Templars by building his own homebrew that gives all Paladins the option to become Anti-Magic Gods with access to Counterspell, Dispel Magic, ect? And then ran a group through a civil war story of Mages vs Templars, and when they sided with the Mages, he explicitly told them he wouldn't let them win, even with TWO ARMIES AND ALL MAGES IN THE WORLD at their side vs one army and a group of Templars?

>>52208307
I can tell you everything you need to know if you tell me what role you want to fill. Or if you tell me what class you want to play. Or what character concept you're going for. Or exactly what specifically you want to optimize.

>>52208910
>>52208953
How will your players know this? Unless they're going to play through the scenario twice, I guess.

>>52208458
Get PAM. Smite on crits.

>>52209189
>he explicitly told them he wouldn't let them win, even with TWO ARMIES AND ALL MAGES IN THE WORLD at their side vs one army and a group of Templars?
well i mean they are anti-magic gods, heh

>>52209158
Yes, it makes sense to rein them in. It doesn't make sense to enslave and abuse them, wipe them out on the slighest provocation and do other horrible, unjustified things to innocent people.
But that's the only thing the templars seemed to do as the series went on. And the only thing mages seemed to do was chimping out, making deals with demons and killing people.
When you try to make your conflict grey by making both sides evil and insane, the conflict is forced.
Still sided with templars, but that's only because Bioware obviously wanted me to side with the mages.

>>52209189
You left the group, right?

>>52209139
> but that's because you would have been killed

I dunno, I'm pretty plucky. I bet I could have taken Duncan. And even if not, he's got that heavy armor on, whereas I was a rogue and therefore lightly dressed. His legs are comparatively constrained, my legs are not.

Therefore, I could execute my most consistently successful plan: RUN AWAY!

I want to play the game where I save schmuck #2 from getting killed, we both leg it, and then we work to take down the evil demon-blood drinking cult that is the Gray Wardens.

>>52209142
I tend towards Chaotic Good characters myself, but fundamentally, when I write "GOOD" on my character sheet, I mean it, and default to that over any other concerns.

>trying to find some music for a D&D session
>bare belly of this Etrian Odyssey loli on all the youtube videos is making me uncomfortable
Helm save me

>>52209179
At no point of the game you're forced into "lesser of two evil" scenarios. That is, until the sequel came in.
No, drinking darkspawn blood is not an evil.

>>52209179
If you're not all-powerful, you can be forced to do somethin evil.
This is something that can happen, and is thus a fiction that could be interesting to explore.

D'you really think your character could've fought Duncan and lived at that point in the game?

>>52209162
Who says they're all subtle and shit?
What is it about these guys that screams subtle?

Is it this?

Mystic Quirks
d20
Quirk
1
You never cut
your hair.
2
You refuse to wear clothes of a specific
color.
3
You never say your name.
4
You never wear footwear.
5
You always wear a mask.
6
You dye your hair bright blue or green.
7
You pick a new name each day.
8
You never immerse yourself in
water.
9
You sleep on bare earth.
10
You never consume alcohol.
11
You wear a veil to conceal your face.
12
You always wear a specific piece of
clothing.
13
You refuse to light fires.
14
You refuse to write things down, instead
using pictograms.
15
You never sit on a chair, preferring to stand
or sit on the floor.
16
You never answer to any name but your
own.
17
You write down the name of each creature
you slay, and name ones that are unnamed.
18
You consume only water and raw
vegetables.
19
You
spend any money you earn within 1
week of gaining it.
20
You often speak to an imaginary
companion, and act only with its blessing.

>>52209251
Standing by and watching a man gut another man for not wanting to drink demon blood without doing anything to stop it, however, is.

>>52209142
Ok hypothetical then:
>Back a noble who is clearly doing the right thing
>Somehow through PC decisions and bad rolls he loses any power
>Need a noble to help change corrupt system
>He was one of the handful of good ones and the only one with real power

Now what?

sup faggots

>>52209259
I think I would have liked to try, and failing that, I think I would have liked to try and run away.

>>52209262
Surely there was a better way to format that, Anon. Do you know how much of my monitor ink you just used up?

>>52209239
guild of ambiance is good for general bgm

>>52209225
Of course I fucking left the group, but that just means I'm a forever GM.

Fucking homebrews built specifically to counter other classes are cancer.

>>52209267
Reveal the evils of the corrupt nobles.

>>52209267
You Kull that shit, motherfucker.

>>52209265
Man, you would really hate the army then, especially in the times of war. They execute cowards all the time in there for deserting, would you try and take on your CO to save them each time?

>>52209259
This is only a thing if you are selfish enough to believe that a chance at your own safety was worth more than protecting the world against a foe that could swamp it.
This entire scenario is predicated on being selfish and craven, and falls apart of you are ready and willing to take the more difficult high road.

>>52209219
I dunno, i found it somewhat believable in terms of the templars having existed for hundreds of years. It's not a massive step to see how protocol, ingrained distaste for what is essentially a subclass, and frequent issues can cause problems.

>>52209179
But then, what do you consider evil choices you could have avoided? Let's say you stop Duncan killing the other guy. You kill Duncan instead. You then don't drink the blood and don't become a Grey Warden. Alistair never joins you. You never have a clear goal on how to defeat the Darkspawn. You don't even have a means to defeat them. Yeah, you've got a complex game with a lot of choice, but what's the point?

Or, find another evil Vs evil choice you have a better solution for.

>>52209262
Specifically, it's suggested you have at least 2 quirks.

3+7
or
3+16
or
7+16

I think any combination of those three would be hilarious.

>>52209282
I'm sorry. My friend said I couldn't waste time with formatting. I had to finish dying my hair.

>>52209311
>he thinks you do Good by joining the professional military
FIGHTING FOR KING BUSH'S OIL PROFITSSSS

>>52209307
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_y_F2DEn1w

>>52209189
Your GM was shit, news at 6.

>>52209262
Those are largely based on appearance or personality and just label you as an oddball. In a world of lizardpeople and tieflings, no less.

I use the word subtle to relate it to the subtle spell metamagic as it is the closest casters have to being able to do these kinds of effects without needing to wave their arms about or speak a magic word.

>>52209199
More of a pattern, the obvious good choice isn't always the best. Either through not supporting that choice later or the opposition out maneuvering them.

Consequences of the choices popping up, and since I'm a fan of more impartial system I try using a somewhat roll system, account the impact of the decisions then see what level of effect it has. The more support and such given the easier it is to help.

>>52209323
Yeah, there probably weren't any executions during that one. I'm talking a Blight-level war, you know, comparable to what happened in the game. Let's say WW2.

>>52209142
>I won't use evil magic or kill someone innocent to save 1000 people when that's clearly all there is to it
Oh god it's the 'letting someone die through inaction is perfectly okay' thing again, isn't it?
That's the most lawful of lawful neutrals - sticking to a code no matter how fucking stupid it is.

>>52209352
Stay home and protect the war effort by ensuring people ration their sugar and metals appropriately, construct weapons for the troops, and mitigate the harm of Korematsu.

>>52209262
>You refuse to light fires
>You consume only water and raw vegetables.

Okay. Still pretty subtle.
>Hey dude, want to light this fire for me?
Nah fire makes me uncomfortable
>Want to eat some steak
Nah man I only eat vegetables

WHAT A FUCKING FREAK

An Avatar Mystic stacking Auras and Beacon as a talent seems really neat.

Fighting at night and suddenly the area lights up and you feel stronger as your now-glowing ally walks forward out of the brush.

>>52209311
>They execute cowards all the time in there for deserting

The last US soldier to be executed for desertion was in 1945, a man named Eddie Slovik. Before that, no US soldier had been executed for such since the American Civil War. That doesn't mean that desertion doesn't happen - just that the US army doesn't execute for desertion as a general rule and hasn't for 70 years.

Beyond that, however, the situation is not even remotely similar, since I'm reasonably certain that nowhere in the US military code could my commanding officer hand me a bottle of something and say "drink this - by the way, it might kill you". After having just watched it kill someone else.

The commanding officer would be the one brought up on charges in that situation, not the soldier who refused a pointlessly suicidal order.

>>52209367
>doing Evil to do Good is Good
>not doing Evil to do Good is Neutral
Do you understand what these words mean or

Guys, guys. Hold up. What if...
What if life is a complicated affair, and not everything can just be labeled "good" and "evil"?

>>52209393
What if my campaign was set in Forgotten Realms where "evil" and "good" were objective truths that can't be changed because I feel like arguing otherwise today or claim that my society has a different opinion on what is good and bad?

>>52208621

Sorcerers can do the same for a metamagic cost, and gain access to higher level spell effects. As far as I can tell, mystics are very flexible at the cost of their power capping out earlier.

>>52209313
>Yeah, you've got a complex game with a lot of choice, but what's the point?

That the game needs to be written better, I should think.

>>52209393
Careful son, thinking like that is how you become an abomination.

>>52209409
Then you should stop playing in shit settings.

>>52209410

>>52208504
>The only caster that can do something similar is a sorcerer with subtle spell. But here mystics essentially have subtle spell, but all the time, and for free.

>>52209409
>Current year
>Playing Forgotten Realms

>>52209388
>The commanding officer would be the one brought up on charges in that situation, not the soldier who refused a pointlessly suicidal order.
Except it wasn't suicidal, since people obviously survive it.
The issue you are ignoring was that the Wardens HAD to keep their method a secret, or they would risk being rejected by their allies, on top of the possibility of the ritual being discovered by darkspawn themselves.

>>52209431
Don't blame me, blame 5E for making it the default setting again.

>>52209392
Doing Evil to achieve anything is Evil, even if the outcome is Good.

>>52209393
>What if life is a complicated affair, and not everything can just be labeled "good" and "evil"?

I'm not necessarily asking for Good choices in DO:A, just better ones that don't force me to undertake actions that I find morally repugnant when a 5-year old could conceive of alternatives.

RE: Run away from Duncan and his cult.

>>52209392
When you do a tiny evil for a massive good, anyone sensible can equate that as 'massive good'.
It's like you don't want to steal a candy from a candy store even though stealing that candy is required to save the candy shop. And somehow, you've justified that inaction as 'good', despite the fact you're willingly letting that place burn.

And that's why it's so lawful. You've constrained yourself to a harsh, rigid code that tells you 'No matter what, I cannot do [Things considered evil], even if it would be a good idea.'

That's basically roleplaying a robot from the future that follows the three laws of robotics. Sure, you're not doing evil, but you're not really doing good either. You're just doing what you're programmed to do.

At the very least you're less good than the guy who would've saved the place, unless we're talking about some weird shitty specific setting again.

>>52209388
Seems unlikely that a commander would get any shit for issuing suicidal orders, both because such orders are ubiquitous in war and because all hierarchies, especially military ones, are designed to pin blame on those lower in the pecking order and shield blame from those higher-up. If it's your word against your underling's word, you win.

>>52209417
The game does not need to be written better so you can avoid the entirety of the point of the game for the sake of your strawman.
You may as well complain about being forced to be Bhaalspawn in BG, another "Evil" thing "forced" on the player.

>>52209297
To who? The peasants know they are corrupt but can't do anything about it, whose to say the king isn't either in on it or more or less a hostage and is powerless?

Then what start a war leading to the death of whose know how many while opening an opportunity for bordering nations to invade and subjugate the land under potentially a more brutal rule?

I get being idealistic but at some point it becomes more harmful than good.

>>52209417
In what way better?
>Evil magic can only be stopped by this questionable magic we have to keep quiet
>Reject the questionable magic
>Now no way to stop evil magic, everybody gets killed
>B-but i wanted to go on a different adventure!

>>52208594
Moonbow warlock exists now.

>>52209432
>Except it wasn't suicidal, since people obviously survive it.

And some people obviously don't, since again, the first guy DID die. Your logic is about as sound as claiming that Russian Roulette isn't a suicidal exercise just because you happen to survive a round.

>The issue you are ignoring was that the Wardens HAD to keep their method a secret, or they would risk being rejected by their allies, on top of the possibility of the ritual being discovered by darkspawn themselves.

I refer you back to my conclusion that the game needs to be written better.

>>52209441
>Guy eats banana
>Banana was made by slave labour, you've just promoted slave labour
>Well done, you're fucking evil
>But by eating that banana you've survived and can now work to abolish slavery
>No lol you're evil because you supported slavery

Everybody on earth is evil because there is a tiny little bit of evil in every action we do, which somehow overwhelms the good part of our actions.

>>52209262
>Half of these make you indistinguishable from a campus problem glasses-donnin' SJW

Top kek

>>52209483
Speaking of which you could say breathing is evil because you're taking away oxygen that could be used by other things
Sure, it's such a tiny, tiny, tiny evil, but apparently that doesn't matter.

>>52209432
>or they would risk being rejected by their allies
Allies are not the problem. The problem is, if people knew about what becoming the grey warden meant...
> Oh boy, I can join a military order! It will end make me sterile and end my comfy life! Also, make me suffer nightmares nightly, for my entire life!
> Speaking of my entire life, it will shorten my lifespan by 3/4! That is, if I don't die in combat before it! That is, if I survive the initiation!
> And most of the times, my sacrifice would be utterly in vain, since there's no Blight or Archdemon!
> Boy, I can't wait to sign up!

so moon druids cannot go above CR 1 until lvl 6?

am I reading this right?

>>52208594
Hey, Shillelagh & GFB or BB is still a winning combo.

>>52209481
>I refer you back to my conclusion that the game needs to be written better.
No, you want it written DIFFERENTLY for your strawman to hold weight, because in the course of the game, it was entirely reasonable, if morally repugnant.
The Wardens were NOT good guys, they were very much ends justify the means, and were never presented as anything but.

>>52209441
>Doing Evil to achieve anything is Evil, even if the outcome is Good.
That was my point. I think the other guy disagreed.

>>52209451
I tortured a man to death:
INTENTION has no bearing on my alignment; it doesn't matter if my torture was "justified" or if I thought I was doing it for noble causes or selfish ones
OUTCOME has no bearing on my alignment; it doesn't matter if the information I gleaned from his torture prevented some great harm
ACTION does influence my alignment; I tortured the guy, I did Evil, therefore I am more Evil

That's how the alignment system works. It can't be twisted to mean whatever you really want it to mean, it can't be stretched to include events that happen way down the line. Otherwise, that butterfly you briefly stopped to admire didn't flap its wings at the right time to prevent a monsoon on the other side of the world that killed millions and you're on the hook. That child you didn't murder grew up to be the next BBEG. You saved that village, but its destruction would have resulted in most of its people moving elsewhere and creating an economic boom for a town down the river which would have expanded farmland and provided a bumper crop which would have allowed thousands to not starve to death during the next drought.

Only your immediate, willing, knowing action has alignment consequences.

>>52209321
or you go with all three of them if you want to be an asshole to your group

>>52209481
I don't think you understand that limitations on what is possible and in-world, reasonable logic isn't bad writing.

And if, somehow, you do understand it, explain exactly how it could have been written better, without changing the core concept.

>>52209455
We're not talking about charging an enemy, or scouting a dangerous area, or holding a position against incoming fire.

We're talking about an officer handing a soldier a can of Mountain Dew that may or may not have a lethal dose of cyanide in it and ordering him to drink, and then putting his gun to the soldier's head and threatening to pull the trigger and kill him if he doesn't.

>>52209459
>You may as well complain about being forced to be Bhaalspawn in BG, another "Evil" thing "forced" on the player.

Someone wasn't paying attention to the Wise Alaundo. His prophecy concerning the Bhaalspawn states quite clearly that they will be evil or good as per their own choices and inclinations, and that being Bhaalspawn was not in and of itself damning - as evidenced by the fact that at the very least, Imoen is a Bhaalspawn but also Neutral Good throughout the whole game, and likewise CHARNAME can be any flavor of Good at the character's choice, and be as virtuous or debased as he or she likes. Bhaalspawn is just some genetic quirk, nothing more.

Compare/contrast the DO:A scene I'm referring to, where the game forces you to stand still as Duncan kills a man, then forces you to shrug and forces you to drink the demon blood. In-universe, your character makes the choice to just go along with things, without any input from the player.

I'd even be more forgiving if Duncan knocked you out and forced the demon blood down your throat, though I'd question why he didn't do that to schmuck #2. However, that's not what happens. Instead, your character grabs the bowl (or goblet or whatever) it's in and drinks up.

>>52209392
Doing evil to do good is still evil, the question is does the good outweighs the evil done? If a person is presented with the opportunity to make things better and the good it does outweighs the evil they'd do and they choose nothing that can be seen as evil.

Is there a discord server? The GF thread is positively dead.

>>52208290
Life is complicated, but good and evil are simple.

How can this be? "Good" is whatever a prescriptive statement is made for and "evil" is whatever a prescriptive statement is made against. Made by whom? By whoever counts. Depending on who and where you are, it might be the most influential people in your culture, the people who came before you and established cultural traditions, your loved ones, or even you yourself.

In D&D, gods are real, and they're the most powerful and influential beings in the known cosmos. So for a lot of people there, "good" is whatever is prescribed by the gods with the most clout in the area. And there happens to be a loose association of gods who are interested in promoting and preserving the life of the races that players tend to play as, the races in the PHB. So this association is known for simplicity's sake as "good" and everyone directly opposed to them as "evil."

>>52209612
>/5eg/ Discord server
https://discord.me/5eg

>>52209572
>I tortured a man to death
>Because he had trapped an entire town in a place where they would soon die, and I needed to know where
>Torture was the only method I had available, and when that failed, I realised our necromancer could pull an answer out of the psychopath after death
>I saved the entire town
>This somehow makes me evil?

>>52209612
No. There's no discord. Go away.

>>52209393
Moral ambiguity is the devil anon.

>>52209612
Yes, but it's so fucking terrible it's been burned off of the OP post, so don't ever bother going there unless you want the worst of these threads and /pfg/ combined.

>>52209629
Yes. Because you tortured a man to death.

Good isn't easy.

>>52209337
Alright then.
>Not subtle, not broken if subtle, not necessarily subtle.
Adaptive Body, Aura Sight, Bestial Form, Brute Force, Celerity, Corrosive Metabolism, Crown of Despair, Crown of Disgust, Diminution, Giant Growth, Intellect Fortress, Iron Durability, Mantle of Awe, Mantle of Command, Mantle of Courage, Mantle of Fear, Mantle of Fury, Mantle of Joy, Mastery of Air, Mastery of Fire, Mastery of Force, Mastery of Ice, Mastery of Light and Darkness, Mastery of Water, Mastery of Weather, Mastery of Wood and Earth, Nomadic Arrow, Nomadic Chameleon, Nomadic Mind, Nomadic Step, Precognition, Psionic Restoration, Psionic Weapon, Psychic Assault, Psychic Disruption, Psychic Inquisition, Psychic Phantoms, Telepathic Contact, Third Eye
>Some part definitely Subtle, maybe broken
Crown of Rage

My point is that just because you don't have to *do* anything to use it doesn't mean there isn't any detectable emanation from you, unless that's specified. And it rarely is.

>>52209439
Even if you're running the prewritten campaigns, you don't need to use FR. Just change the names of places and NPCs.

>>52209623
> Good and evi are green energy vs red energy
Kindly neck yourself. I've had enough of your kind in my 3.5 days.

>>52209591
What if it had occurred before the events of the game? What if you arrived as a Grey Warden having gone through the same scene?

Do you want to explore every moral choice the character made since birth? The game required that you be one a Grey Warden in order to start your quest, otherwise nothing you do is worthwhile.

>>52209656
Good isn't nice.

>>52209592
>does the good outweighs the evil done
An action is not both Good and Evil. It is one or the other. You did Evil, so you're more Evil. If you want to counteract that, you have to do actual Good later on that is separate from the act of Evil that you committed.

>I robbed this shopkeeper of all his wares so I would have equipment for my holy crusade
Evil. You do not gain a lick of Good until you are actually on your holy crusade doing unabashedly Good things with your pilfered equipment.

>I assassinated this guy because he was beating his children
Evil. Freeing those children from their life of torment means fuck-all for your alignment, because you didn't actually free them. You just killed a guy. He was a bad guy, but you engaged in cold-blooded, pre-meditated, one-sided, unlawful murder, completely unannounced.

>>52209629
>This somehow makes me evil?
Yes, you tortured a guy. You took the easy way out instead of finding a more creative solution. You bargained away a chunk of your immortal soul and pissed in the faces of all the angels and Gods of Good for a chance at saving some people whose deaths weren't on you to begin with, even if you failed. Also, you're palling around with a necromancer, and given your laissez-faire attitude towards torture and murder, you're probably cool with him animating the dead with negative energy.

>>52209652
I just want to get in a game, I'm willing to deal with degenerate weaboos, this is 4chan after all.

>>52209388
The thing with the grey wardens is you aren't a soldier. You are a death row inmate.

That doesn't mean you have to let that guy die, but you do have to drink the fucking blood.

>>52209656
>Yes. Because you tortured a man to death.
So saving a town isn't a good act?

How much brainwashing can you manage in 5e?

>>52209690
Did moral ambiguity molest you as a child or something?

>>52209656
That suggests you value your own morality above the lives of others. Which, in turn, is selfish and evil.

This is why it's a dilemma and not straightforward. Even if you choose not to act against the evil, you have to do so out of pure apathy towards the whole event, otherwise you're doing it to preserve your innocence.

>>52209690
>He was a bad guy, but you engaged in cold-blooded, pre-meditated, one-sided, unlawful murder, completely unannounced.
So, every PC who kills the BBEG of their campaign is evil? Sure, the evil lich was subjugating the people, forcing townspeople to sacrifice villagers to add to his fell army of undead, but you committed murder by killing him. That's evil.

>>52209509
Gotta admit I'd much rather be a Dragonrider of Pern.

So I have a group of a
EK
Life cleric
Kensei Monk
Warlock ??

Which class and race should I play to balance the group?

I want playing to play a elderin thief with high investigation and acana to balance the party

My rolls are 18 17 15 13 8 8

>>52209714
20 CHA Avatar Mystic can basically be a God of brainwashing, and in Core, a 20 CHA Bard will do the same with sheer force of will (And a little Charm Person on disposable types)

>>52209714
Judging by this thread, I'd say a lot.

>>52209656
>Good isn't easy.
This is the most salient point that can be made for whether Evil can be justified because there's a "greater good" down the line.

It makes being a Good guy incredibly easy if you can handwave all the terrible shit you do by saying "but it was for the greater good".

Yeah, robbed everyone in town for their gold so I could buy supplies; greater good.
Yeah, decided to keep the money and just rob the store of all its shit; greater good.
Decided not to risk my life killing the bog monster and just held the questgiver upside-down until quest rewards fell out; need that +1 sword for the greater good.
Good thing I still have all that money, because now I can bribe these river crossing guards to let me pass; eh, killed them anyway once I was on the other side, had to get my cash back, made the fight easier for me, greater good.
Tortured a few henchmen; greater good, had to find the lich's lair.
Good thing I had all that money, I could spend it all on explosives to use on the lich's lair; killed the explosives merchant anyway once I found his supply shed, never know if I'll need that money later, greater good.
Blew up the lich's lair; yeah, there were innocents inside, but I could have died storming that place and this was pretty much fool-proof, so greater good.
I saved way more people from the lich's future evils than I killed, so I'm a Good guy.

>>52209747
play a lore wizard

laugh as you entirely invalidate your own team

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>>52209623
Not in 5e.

Here, direct from the PHB:
"Lawful good (LG) creatures can be counted on to do the right thing as expected by society."

So you have this trolley problem.
What does society think the right thing to do is?

I'm pretty sure society says 'Kill the one guy instead of literally fucking everybody else.'

But then again chaotic good is
"Chaotic good (CG) creatures act as their conscience directs, with little regard for what others expect."
.. Which basically means chaotic good do whatever the fuck they like, even if it's clearly evil.

So, actually, I'm not sure they've properly defined good and evil at all in 5e? I'm not actually sure alignment MEANS anything. It's just a tag you can put on your character. And if you want to believe that you're good for letting shit happen instead of stopping it, then, sure.

>>52209690
>Speaking in black and whites that can lead to more suffering and harm

I'll bargain a little bit of that soul so others won't have to or have to face the consequences of my unwillingness to bend.

>It's another "argue about the logistics of the garbage alignment system" episode
I don't think it's supposed to be strict ruleset anyways.

>>52209690
>This somehow makes me evil?
Yes, you tortured a guy. You took the easy way out instead of finding a more creative solution. You bargained away a chunk of your immortal soul and pissed in the faces of all the angels and Gods of Good for a chance at saving some people whose deaths weren't on you to begin with, even if you failed. Also, you're palling around with a necromancer, and given your laissez-faire attitude towards torture and murder, you're probably cool with him animating the dead with negative energy.

>I swore to protect the townsfolk.
>They entrusted me with an ancient power in exchange for my protection.
>I have no other means of saving them, there is not creative workaround.
>Through my own failures, this man gained the ability to do this.
>I am the only one able to act.

OK, you have now strapped the people to the rails in this trolley problem. The entire event is burdened upon you, save for the fact that you did it while under the compulsion of the single man tied to the tracks, who set the whole thing up.

Are you still going to say it's more evil to pull the lever?

>>52209739
No, the PCs challenged the BBEG to mortal combat and bested him a challenge of arms, arcane might, and wits. That ain't murder, it's just a killing, and killing ain't Evil. It's not Evil to kill a guy who comes screaming at you with a bunch of swords in the middle of a deadly fight, but it is Evil to just walk up to this guy while he's having lunch at the bistro and slit his throat from behind.

Does that make sense? Not really? Well, that's how the universe was set up and we're just shitty mortals, so we've got to just accept that there are some things beyond our comprehension. The answer to Euthyphro's dilemma in this world is "that first part".
>Is what is Good loved by the gods because it is Good, or is it Good because it is loved by the gods?

>>52209778
A pervious player played that and he was a dick plus I never played a wizard

>>52209672
Yes, but when you torture someone to death, you stop being Good.

>>52209669
Write the Gray Wardens better. You're forgetting, I think, that this is just a story. There is no reason beyond writer fiat that the Warden's induction ritual needs to be so needlessly lethal to two out of the three inductees other than to add pointless drama. I say "pointless" because neither schmuck #1 or #2 ever come back up in any real way, instead being written off and forgotten - literally in my case since I can't even remember their names.

If the writers wanted the Wardens to come across as "ends justify the means", they could have done that in numerous other ways throughout the rest of the game, AFTER a (better) induction ritual that doesn't have pointless death in it. In fact I'm sure that they did...which just makes the induction ritual even more pointless, except to make me feel completely turned off at the prospect of ever working for the Gray Wardens to start with. It's one thing to slowly realize that I'm actually working for the bad guys the entire time and need to try and fix that - it's another to force my character to shrug and willingly go along with what is obviously an evil cult.

My character wasn't given the option to ditch them, so I did the next best thing (after I learned that the King, the only good part of the introduction, wasn't even going to stick around, but rather was killed): uninstalled DO:A and never looked back.

>>52209791
Neither do I but some do, my main question was bringing in more morally grey situations to make things less bland. Then the paladins showed up

>>52209808
Pulling the lever is an Evil act.
Not pulling the lever isn't an act, good or ill.
Inaction is not an action, RAW or RAI of "the universe".

>>52209657
I disagree. All these effects come from the mind.
Some of these alter your body or require movement from you, so they definitely are not "subtle" in that sense.

But anything that produces some kind of charm or telekinetic effect require no indication from you that you did anything at all. Meaning you can deliver psychic attacks, charm, cause people to see illusions, even blow shit up with your mind (Detonation) without lifting a finger.

The requirement being usually you have to see something is all.

I'm not trying to argue this is necessarily always broken or that I disagree with the implementation. I'm just saying, with a bit of creativity, this is perhaps one of their biggest strengths. And if you're DMing for a mystic you should keep this in mind.

>>52208786
But anon...

Dealing heavy damage reliably is fun

>>52209747
What you've suggested would be fine! You could consider going Rogue Mastermind instead for the ranged help bonus action to be directly supportive of the front line.
If you don't like the higher level abilities of The Mastermind, you could easily MC out into Battlemaster Fighter or something after level 4.

>>52209808
oh no however will i live with myself doing this bad thing if i can tell myself it was totally justified
such a problem for me in this shades of gray morality where nothing matters and any action can be reasoned one way or the other
ugh, the fantastic storytelling and moral dilemmas are too much for me.........

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>>52209727
I rather think that it instead suggests that I value finding another way. Because there is always another way.

>>52209748
>20 CHA Avatar Mystic

Can you expand? I thought Mystic was a Int class.

>>52209820
Golly gee, somehow everyone else thought the game is just fine, and it's only you whose autism got triggered.
I'm not sure why those people are trying to convince you of something, though.

Fuck, if a player can even tangentially justify their alignment who cares.

Lawful Evil Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut who tries their best but they got that evil blood. Yeah sure cool.

I blame Neverwinter Nights for instilling the idea that alignment is a series of numbers and you earn points for killing goblins for good.

>>52209855
I think that if I were to DM for a mystic as they grew in power and the adventuring party's reputation grew, so too should reputation of the mystic's ability to cause things to "happen."

>>52209833
That's probably the only way to stay sane. Probably also not true.

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>>52209871
This. Greater Goodfags aren't trying hard enough. Evil is the easy way out.

>>52209820
>no reason beyond writer fiat that the Warden's induction ritual needs to be so needlessly lethal to two out of the three inductees other than to add pointless drama.
>There's no need for mages to become abominations by dealing with demons, it only adds side quests
>No reason for the dwarves to have no magic except for differentiating them from other races, it'd be better if they did
>No reason for Darkspawn to be hostile, really, be better writing if they were just neutral
>In fact, it would be better if we got dropped into a grey world with no features and no significant problems, because world building is bad for some reason?

>>52209789
>I'll bargain a little bit of that soul so others won't have to
Personally, I think this makes for a good argument for why Good people can do Evil to achieve Good in the end, if that Evil act is the only reliable option. Because, sure, you can take the hard route and find a purely good method of saving the town, but I see two problems with that;
1. While you're pissing about, the town could be destroyed. What a fucking hero you were.
2. You're basically saying "My own moral goodness is more important than peoples' lives." by refusing to do Evil in the name of Good.

>>52209866
Sadly my Dm doesn't allow multiclassing

>>52209833
But it's not inaction. It's a conscious choice to let people die. That's an action.

>>52209875
Speaking for myself, i need something to do between gym sets and I've seen all the other 5eg discussions before. Arguing morality is mildly entertaining.

>>52209907
>moral dilemmas are set up to make players feel bad
>doing something horrid to stop the bad guy never makes people feel as bad as not doing something horrid, letting something horrid happen, and stopping the bad guy later

I think it's also important to remember in this whole Good vs Evil discussion, that a good character can still do an evil act.

One evil act does not shift your alignment. However, if you're routinely employing evil actions even for the sake of good then you are ultimately aligning with evil.

Tg a player wants to do nomad Mystic in Curse of Strahd. Should I allow?

I'm a bit of a stick in the mud when it comes to homebrew usually.

>>52209875
> somehow everyone else thought the game is just fine

Not everyone is Good. In other news, scientists have recently discovered that the sky is blue.

>>52209855
Vader could just choke you with angry thoughts, but he doesn't, is what you're saying. Everyone knows Vader chokes people.

>>52209873
It is, but CHA is what you want for brainwashing. A lot of Mystic effects aren't going to be spellcasting based, but passive Focuses. As such, a Mystic with the Mantle of Joy focus will have advantage on all Persuasion checks, and if you want to be a pure brainwasher without persuasion, Mantle of Awe will give you passive CHA check bonuses and Charming Presence.

>>52209930
I had oatmeal for breakfast this morning. I could have had eggs or bacon or toast, but I chose to eat oatmeal. I didn't choose to not eat eggs or bacon or toast.

If "not doing something" is now "doing something", every PC becomes irrevocably Evil because you encounter a bajillion more situations of inequality and badness that you are potentially in a position to stop but didn't.

>>52209820
I'm baffled at your inability to accept anything that isn't perfect by your own standards.

>>52209871
>Blow up the tunnel
>Bus now either careens out of control and rolls
>If not can't stop in time do to it being a bus and slams head first into a pile of rubble

Yeah that really solves it.

>>52209876
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Neverwinter Nights set in Forgotten Realms, where that's actually true of the alignment system?
Also
>expecting Obsidian to get shit 100% right anyway

>>52209875
>Golly gee, somehow everyone else thought the game is just fine
Just because I don't object to the writing doesn't mean I think the "game" was fine.

>>52209944
I'd allow it... but you should go through and read all the disciplines and make a decision about which ones you want to rule out.
There's a few combinations that can be pretty ridiculous.

The nomad ones are pretty okay though. And if he's a nomad he's already not doing the whole immortal AC shit, so that's a good sign.

Keep in mind while thinking about these things which ones will ultimately inspire fun or which ones might ultimately detract from it. Then talk with your player about what disciplines/abilities they're thinking about taking and why.

>>52209944
You're playing Curse of Strahd, where the penalty for failure is getting more ripped. What does it matter if Nomad or Mystics in general is theoretically bullshit? The point of UA material is to be tested; test it.

>>52209944
Yes, then give feedback to WotC

>>52209944
mystic isn't homebrew, though it is playtest material.

The general consensus seems to be that mystics are currently a little overtuned, but not overbearingly so.

You'd probably be fine to allow it, with the caveat that you'll houserule against anything that starts to get OP.

>>52209948
>My autism got triggered, so I'm a morally good person. People who didn't like it are evil or neutral at best.
I think we're being baited.

>>52209833
Where in the core rulebooks for 5e does it state this asinine shit about how alignment is about your actions, not your inactions or personality or anything else?

I still use the first mystic UA because it's the only one where I can make psychic attacks with advantage while Druid shapeshifted into a lion with pack instincts.

>>52209926
That's fair enough.
But yeah, thief rogue is great, mastermind is also worth considering.
With your high stats it'll be easy to focus on dexterity, constitution, and then probably intelligence for your flavour skills.
Bard is the other option to consider for filling out gaps in the party, can pick a few spells from any class as you level, gets helpful spells. Can easily still be sneaky, skilly and killy.

>>52210004
>The general consensus seems to be that mystics are currently a little overtuned
only idiots who didn't read the whole thing think this

>>52210012
Not necessarily. There are genuine autists among us.

>>52209981
The retarded AC one is Avatar, not Immortal.

>>52209911
The problem is you're presenting an abstract moral dilemma with only a fraction of the details that someone would have in real life.

1. Who's threatening the town?
2. Why are they threatening the town?
3. Have I even attempted to talk them out of it?
4. Where is the town?
5. How quickly could I reach the town?
6. What is threatening the town, anyway?
7. Can I get a message to the town faster than I can physically reach the town?
8. How can I possibly have enough time to torture a man to death to find out how to save a town and then ride to the town and save it, but not have enough time to ride to the town and save it myself?
9. Why is my Necromancer friend so shitty at magic that he doesn't have Charm Person prepared?
9a. Seriously, dude, not a single Enchantment?
10. If this man is threatening a town with destruction, and I have every reason to believe that he can do it, why do I not just outright kill him as quickly and painlessly as possible, and then have my Necromancer friend cast Speak With Dead, skipping the middle man?

>>52209931
The worst part is I've come up with a Lawful Good NPC through all this that is attempting to purge the criminal organization. Problem is that organization is the main reason the resistance against those attempting to seize the throne are able to function.

>>52209948
>>52209931
>>52209909
>>52209871
So, if you're so Good, are you a vegan? After all no amount of suffering is acceptable. Why don't you abandon all modern technology, it's based on the exploitation of workers. Don't you know whatever you used to post that was made in a factory with suicide nets to keep the workers from killing themselves?

>>52209932
Someone who makes only good choices is probably more good than someone who performs no evil actions, cosmicly speaking. They're probably also insane or dead or both.

>>52209951
Essentially, yes.
Although Vader does have to reach his hand out.

I'm just saying, it's something to keep in mind as they can do it for free. Sorcerers often don't even go for subtle spell (well, I would) because they're so attracted to the damage output they can have by spending their metamagic on other things. So I don't think this is something people think about as often as they should.

In general I really like mystics so far, I just want to see them refined a bit more to prevent cheese builds such as some of the shenanigans I've seen posted here. I'm optimistic about them as a class, ultimately.

>>52210015
We're talking about objective morality settings like Forgotten Realms in general, not 5E, which attempts to downplay alignment as much as possible.

Just don't play in FR or change it to operate with your shades of grey, anything goes subjective morality if your table can't handle tough moral decision-making and cosmic consequences.
It's really that simple.

>>52210053
*aren't

>>52209871
Providing an escape to one impossible situation doesn't mean you're exempt from the logic. That's tantamount to saying "well it doesn't matter whether the immovable object or unstoppable force is stronger, I diverted the force so they miss." It wasn't an option in the question and refusing to accept the question in the first place just means you're unwilling to commit to either side, not that your side is superior.

>>52210053
The universe has decided that killing cows for meat isn't Evil so I'm in the clear.

>>52210041
Ah right, I suppose I was getting the immortal's base AC confused with the one you can get with mastery of force, inertial armor? iirc.

>>52210063
>Although Vader does have to reach his hand out.

...no he doesn't. Vader choked Admiral Ozzel to death at the beginning of Episode V without lifting a finger.

>>52210096
> It wasn't an option in the question

Yeah, but that one has a different answer.

"They surrender."

>>52210110
Yes. The combo is Avatar for wearing a shield, Inertial Armor, Bestial Hide, and Iron Durability for the Focus, and reaction.

>>52210113
I suppose that's true. A bit inconsistent with the rest of the force chokes he does, but fair enough.

>>52210072
I don't know where we started talking about FR.

Whenever alignment comes up, suddenly it turns out we're talking about a setting that has specific alignment rules that don't follow common sense morality, but instead something that isn't actually morality at all like the PHB suggests and is in fact just a bunch of rules.

"A typical creature in the worlds of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS has an alignment, which broadly describes its moral and personal attitudes. "

If murdering thousands to save one person by inaction isn't evil, then you're seriously no longer following common morality or most personalities. However, you could at least claim that your personality is that you're not good at decisions and thus you stall too much and fuck up.

So, at least, FR's apparent alignment is in conflict with the PHB's 'most D&D characters' alignment.

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>>52210129
Side note, guess where I get almost all my direction on how to be Good from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuyxS6WE2vc
>Bestial Claws
>Lethal Strike
>Mighty Leap
Finally, Mystic allows me to Monk in the post-apocalyptic fuck-future properly.

>>52210043
To me when someone presents dilemmas like this I assume we've fucked up (normally true) and are out of options. This isn't some, well do we do it easy way or hard way this is we went the hard way and failed at every turn so now this is what we have left.

That is what I want, ways to set those up where if things go wrong it can come down to a do we do an evil because we have nothing left situation. That doesn't mean it is the first and only option

>>52210043
1. Who's threatening the town?
>The man has a spell poised to blow it up. It will function whether he's dead or alive.
2. Why are they threatening the town?
>He's a psychopath.
3. Have I even attempted to talk them out of it?
>Yes, you failed.
4. Where is the town?
>Nearby.
5. How quickly could I reach the town?
>Instantly. You're already there.
6. What is threatening the town, anyway?
>A spell of godlike power, which will wipe out the inhabitants wherever they are and whatever they do, unless the secret counterspell is found.
7. Can I get a message to the town faster than I can physically reach the town?
>Sure, but it won't save them.
8. How can I possibly have enough time to torture a man to death to find out how to save a town and then ride to the town and save it, but not have enough time to ride to the town and save it myself?
>You can't save it without this information.
9. Why is my Necromancer friend so shitty at magic that he doesn't have Charm Person prepared?
>The Necromancer just arrived, offering to help.
9a. Seriously, dude, not a single Enchantment?
>He's a novice with knowledge of only Speak with Dead.
10. If this man is threatening a town with destruction, and I have every reason to believe that he can do it, why do I not just outright kill him as quickly and painlessly as possible, and then have my Necromancer friend cast Speak With Dead, skipping the middle man?
>Necromancer only just arrived.

Go on.

>>52210063
Most of these things you could get away with by blending into a crowd, and even as a mystic couldn't pull off if you weren't hidden in the first place. I mean, everyone knows Vader chokes people, anyway, and these things take an action and need you to see the target.

>>52210019
I was think bard too but since we got a lock I though I don't need to be a charisma class

>>52210147
I always thought he held his hand for the intimidation factor

>>52209972
>implying a bus driving into a rock wall, which gives its occupants at least a chance for survival, is just as bad as the bus exploding guarenteeing death for all. Or the guy just slams the breaks and it doesn't roll?

Did you think before you typed?

>>52210147
>>52210192
If you had the power to force choke people, you'd damn well make a show of it when you wanted to.

>>52210180
You could set off an explosion with your mind and no one would have seen anyone cast a spell or anything. You could do this while hidden in a crowd, or waiting in line at fantasy starbucks.

>everyone knows vader chokes people
Which basically means your mystic will have to have a reputation.

>>52210179
Then in this case the clear answer is to kill the evil psychopathic wizard who is threatening the town. If I have enough time to theoretically torture him to death, I certainly have enough time to just chop his head off. Likewise, killing the psychopath in this situation is not Evil since he's, y'know, threatening to kill an entire town and it's within my power to stop it.

Then I get the Necromancer to cast Speak With Dead to get the information I needed.

See? There is ALWAYS another option.

>>52210180
Even if that is the case your mystic can always get a surprise round off by just blasting them with psychic power.
No one has to see them reach for a blade or anything.

Also enemy casters can't do shit.

>>52210204
These people live in worlds where there are only two choices, Evil and Lesser Evil. Any attempt to create a third option must be constructed to be somehow, inexplicably worse, even if it must fly in the face of logic and physics to do so.

>>52210225
The corpse is under no obligation to be truthful, and it's way harder to persuade something if it's dead

>>52210192
In Rogue One he's also making a gesture with his hand while using a force choke. The guy is already on the ground looking the other way before he reveals it.

Seems more just like they messed up. Any star wars fags know the LORE? Maybe I should dip into one of those threads and ask.

>>52210149
I take it you don't approve of Henry Cavill Superman killing Zod, then? Superman generally has the advantage of writer fiat to protect his honour - and Batman to do what's necessary when he can't.

>>52210204
>Bus driving into a rock wall at decent rate of speed gives them a chance
>Human instincts won't kick in cause the driver to panic leading to loss of control
>Guy just slams on the brakes

Do you have any idea how long it takes a bus to stop at a decent speed? Say in the 45mph range? I'll wait while you Google it because any amount of realism means that bus is hitting that wall and more likely than not killing the passengers due to some questionable seat belt laws for busses.

>>52210278
Hey, I got some LORE. Old, non-canon lore but lore nontheless.

Yeah the hand motions are just for show and effort. It's a bit harder to visualize the Force in movies and shows, so you don't show them just concentrating, they have to have hand movements.

People like Luke before being a Master had to use the hand movements and showy shit because they were inexperienced. The Jedi/Sith felt more connection with the Force when moving their hands and shit because it felt better, but it didn't make it work any better.

This goes out the window for stuff like Force Lightning, where it comes out of your fingers, but for the rest, the hand movements are just a way for people to focus better. If you can focus with your mind 100%, you don't need movements.

>>52210267
That is not the scenario that was originally outlined, however, which is here: >>52209629

Besides, if we want to take that route, torture is historically a very ineffective means of gathering information from even mentally stable individuals, nevermind someone whom you just explicitly identified as a psychopath who's killing people for funsies.

The way I hear it, I can either torture the guy (to death, according to the scenario) and have no guarantee of getting any information, let alone the correct information, THEN let the Necromancer cast Speak With Dead; or just kill him outright and get the Necromancer to Speak With Dead to the psychopath, which at least has a chance to give me the correct information

Either way I seem to be better off if the guy is dead.

The moral dilemma was stupid and easily solved.

>>52210283
> Superman generally has the advantage of writer fiat to protect his honour
Being an unbeatable demigod also helps.

>>52210225
You don't stop the spell by killing him, it must be noted.

Fine, the necromancer is hurrying to you and sent a message ahead, but has no guarantee he'll be there in time. You know that you have a roughly 80% chance of succeeding in finding the information you need by torturing the guy.
You have a 20% chance of finding it out from the necromancer if he arrives in time, which is about 50/50.

I can keep twisting this until you're in the same position as before, taking away your loopholes. It doesn't have to be good writing, i just have to prove a point.

>>52210278
The LORE I remember is that they associate the movement woth the action, just to focus their power and make it easier to channel.
Crazy powerful force masters didn't need to even twitch to do the shit that happens in the OT.
But this is my vague memories of old threads so I could be wrong

>>52210322
>Besides, if we want to take that route, torture is historically a very ineffective
Oh yeah, I keep hearing that. Funny that all the research that gets sourced when I ask is from anti-torture organizations.

>>52210278
LORE is, Vader is a space wizard with extremely vaguely defined powers. Don't overthink that.

>>52210249
>Implying there wasn't other options

The scenarios I've asked were under the basis that the best option had been tried and failed. Go ahead and keep setting up those strawmen though

>>52210322
Sorry, yeah I didn't read the original. You're right buddy ol pal

>>52210283
Remind that Christopher Reeve Superman also killed Zod in Superman 2. And THAT Zod wasn't even a threat at that point. Why do people keep forgetting it happened?

>>52210322
The point of the dilemma is that you're arguing against the instance, not the logic. You're saying that there must be a loophole somewhere that allows you to escape unscathed.

Easier noose for you to hang yourself:
>You are responsible for a situation, because you were evil previously, but have made a conscious decision to be good
>However, in order to avert your previous evil from causing more evil, you must commit one final evil act
>This is not a "but what is the situation" scenario, this is a universe where only these statements are true and only the abstract concepts exist, no practicalities or loopholes
>Is it more evil to allow your past actions to cause harm, or to complete a further evil act (which will cause less overall evil) to prevent them?

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Hey guys, here's my next character. Thoughts?

>Speak with dead offers no guarantee the reply will be truthful.

Why do people seem to get upset when the dead person they just murdered lies to them.

>>52210283
I'm not a fan of Zod's death, no, but in the contrived situation that the writers arranged for that scene I can understand how it could be necessary. Superman doesn't have an explicit "no kill" rule the way Batman does; he does everything in his power to avoid it, and a good writer can craft a good story without him needing to break it. But he HAS broken it when the chips are down and he had no other choice. It usually haunted him thereafter, too (unlike Zod's death in MoS/BvS).

>and Batman to do what's necessary when he can't.

BATMAN DOES NOT FUCKING KILL.

As much as I hated Man of Steel, Batman v. Superman was astoundingly worse for that reason.

With Batman not killing, it's not just a question of morality, though there is that. It's also the fact that Batman is FUCKING INSANE. The best Batman stories are the ones that center on insanity and the mind, and raise the question of whether or not Batman is, in his own way, just as crazy as the people he fights. I actually have a fun theory that all major Batman villains can be connected to one or more kind of mental illness or deficiency - Riddler is obssessive/compulsive, Catwoman is kleptomania, Mr. Freeze is manic depression, and so on.

For my part, I have always bought into a faux-paper by Hugo Strange (before he became a supervillain) on Batman, where - while the doctor admitted that a real psycho-analysis wasn't possible since Batman couldn't be directly interviewed - he nevertheless tentatively diagnosed Batman with monomaniacal obsession with violent death.

Batman is a fundamentally good person, deep down inside (though he doesn't think of himself as one), but more than that, he is obsessed with preventing violent death, and could no more CAUSE or ALLOW a violent death than someone with severe OCD could break his or her own rituals and habits.

>>52210310
>Do you have any idea how long it takes a bus to stop at a decent speed?

Do you have any idea how far the bus was from the tunnel?

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I am trying to come up with a big plot twist for my players right now. I wanna hear some ideas.

Tell me some stories regarding good plot twists you encountered as a player or created as a DM, or maybe just toss some ideas around... I'll be watching.

>>52210267
If some crazy wizard is powerful enough to use some god spell, why are only one adventurer and a novice necromancer there to stop him? If he's strong enough to use a god spell, how are we strong enough to kill him? If he's truly crazy, why would he even bother giving us the password after torture? The spells functions whether or not he's alive, and this sounds like the climax to his shitty existence, so how do we know torture will even work? If the situation is we've fucked up at every corner and this is all we got, then I say the adventurer fucked up beyond repair. Torture is trash anyway.

This entire scenario is dumb and fucked and the hero can spend the rest of his life crying about how he failed, because he did. Terrible things happen, and torture doesn't fix that.

>Almost all "roll to hit" mystic powers have to be spent BEFORE the roll
Fuuuuu

>>52210405
Too big.

>>52210405
Would be pretty fun to play a giant campaign though.
Could have some fun playing giant politics while fighting dragons and even watching the tiny races wage war beneath you.

>all the boy scouts in this thread

Man I admire you're willingness to strictly adhere to a higher moral standard. May not agree with it but, then again atleast I'll be around should everything else fail.

>>52210310
A 1% chance at survival is objectively better than a 0% chance, you twat.

>>52210416
All the gods were evill all along! You have to kill them now!
Yeah, that was a pretty shitty campaign.

>>52210416
People really like the "it was all a dream" twist after you force a TPK.
Go for that.

>>52210433
>intelligent, nihilistic, and with a wicked sense of humor

>>52210347
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/08/world/does-torture-work-the-cias-claims-and-what-the-committee-found.html?_r=0
Funny that every time someone claims torture works, we find out that's bullshit and people say anything to get the pain to stop (and it doesn't, so what's the point?)

Regardless of its efficacy in extracting correct information, it's ultimately self-defeating because it encourages similar barbarities against the users or those he is protecting and improves recruitment among the enemy.

>bad guys steal your shit
How much do you want to fight them?
>bad guys steal your shit and kidnap a woman
How much do you want to fight them?
>bad guys steal your shit, kidnap a woman, and rape her
How much do you want to fight them?
>bad guys steal your shit, kidnap a woman, rape her, and kill 20 townsfolk
How much do you want to fight them?
>bad guys steal your shit, kidnap a woman, rape her, kill 20 townsfolk, and distribute evidence that they were brutally tortured for hours beforehand, the flesh literally peeled away from their still-living bodies in strips until they died of blood loss
How much do you want to fight them?

Now recognize that there are people who think you're the bad guy, and any lines you cross are justification for more barbarity on their end or useful propaganda to raise more fighters against you.

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I'm playing a Kobold Arcane Trickster, what spells are worth getting and how should I stat him? Did I fuck up by going into magic instead of just being a turbo dex slayer?

>>52210416
A singular trustworthy PC being the bad guy is a pretty good one.

I liked the way shadowrun dragonfall did it. Where the main quest seems to be that you're trying to save this guy and it turns out that the person you're trying to save was the big bad all along.

I pulled this over on my players once and it went pretty well. But it wasn't a central plot, just a side quest.

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>>52210456
> NY times

>>52210416
>YOU WERE ON A SPACESHIP THE WHOLE TIME
Have one of the television panels that projects the sky break and fall onto some village.

>>52210414
>Do you have any idea how far the bus was from the tunnel?
>In the scenario only a couple seconds to decide

Based on the information given close enough that what I detailed is far more likely. Also you dodged my question do you have any idea how long it takes a bus to stop?

>>52210399
Because Superman 2 is at least an otherwise good and enjoyable movie.

Same as how I can deal with Batman killing in the Burton/Schulmacher eras, or in Batman Begins ("I don't have to save you". Yes, he does). Yeah, it flies in the face of established lore about the character, but at least I'm watching an otherwise good movie, and besides which they take place in their own comfortable universes.

Compare/Contrast MoS/BvS, which is trying to create a unified movie setting and, ostensibly, a definitive version of each DC character. And what do they do?

Man of Murder and the Dark Mass Murderer.

>>52210402
>This is not a "but what is the situation" scenario, this is a universe where only these statements are true and only the abstract concepts exist, no practicalities or loopholes

Your setting is shitty and I'm not going to play in it. Of course you can, in the abstract, set up a perfect scenario from which no Good can be achieved, ether personally or broadly. I deal exclusively, however, with the real world, or at least within the context of a fantasy world.

Proving that, if you utterly remove all context from a situation, you can force someone to be Evil, does not prove that in the real world, there's always another choice - because in the real world, no situation lacks context.

>>52210416
I'm always a big fan of "they were underground the whole time, but you didn't know it because the characters had no knowledge of the existence of the sky". It's subtle, but it's scenically impressive.

>>52210484
>getting your facts from 247patriotnewz4u.mk

>>52210478
I was probably going to pull something like this.

tldr one of the PC's is an ex-Privateer and had a connect in the town they were in. The guy ran the local Thieves Guild but was an "honest Thief", Robin Hood type.

He convinced the PC's to help him overthrow the local governor whom he convinced was running a slave trade and trading with these slaver-raiders. Anyways, I was going to have it be that the governor was actually the guy trying to stop it and he was the actual guy running the slave trade all along.

I'm pondering over a double-smite build of paladin and warlock with caster levels thrown in, as >>52208546 said. Is this possible? I can't get an extra attack in without putting more into paladin

>>52210510
I only trust investigative reporting from NEETs on /pol/ "researching" publically available data on the internet.

>>52210510
>Being a self-righteous liberal pansy

>>52210510
>Getting your facts from news of any kind

Find the studies yourself, all news sources have a bias to one side or the other.

>>52210504
That would be really interesting actually. Unfortunately, I've already well established sunlight and darkness so perhaps another time this can be implemented. Nice idea.

>>52210534
>guy says he doesn't trust studies
>just read studies
>NYT story links the fucking source report they're talking about
??????????????????????

>>52210554
NYT is fucking garbage.

>>52210534
Reading science will skew your awareness inaccurately towards what is being studied, i.e. where the grant money is.
You're better off going outside and conducting your own tests so you can eliminate all but your own biases, otherwise how could you claim to have an opinion?

>>52210554
>give random fucker on the internet a slew of studies and some reports
>doesn't know how to read them
>doesn't have the inclination to read them
>says you're wrong anyway and keeps on talking bullshit

>>52210426
Good. It should represent the mystic having to exert themselves and focus on what they're doing. It sort of balances out the fact that they have super high versatility. Sort of.

I hope the next thread won't be such a pile of shit. Jesus Christ.

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Hey im on working on some spells for my homebrew setting. Can i get some criticism and maybe ideas?

>>52210502
Demanding context does not prove your point. I'm removing it not because i want you to play in a setting without, but because I can't get you to recognise an impossible choice when you see one.

So fine, let's de-abstract it a level. You are a dot travelling in a line on a two dimensional plane at a constant pace. You are unable to stop. At a certain juncture, you must travel either left or right. Travelling left is considered somewhat evil, while travelling right is considered very evil. You have arrived at this juncture because you chose several good options in a row (in binary choices between a good or evil option) which led to these evil options.

Which path do you take?

>>52210571
Careful you don't hurt yourself on that edge, bro.

>>52209262
Oh no, this guy is weird! He doesn't wear brightly purple clothes and doesn't drink!

Only having like 4 of these at a time would make a person genuinely weird. Most of these are unnoticeable in a crow or during a conversation.

>What are your opinions on Mystics /tg/? They sound fun.

>>52210554
>NYT wouldn't link only sources that support their agenda

Yeah, the first guy is an idiot for the NYT facts comment. It does make it easier to just cite news but my argument is always have sources independent of this or that news org. Also he was more likely point to NYT itself.

>>52210609
It's not edgy they are the Jew York Times and are a bunch of hypocritical scumbags.

>>52210609

Can one truly be an edgy non-conformist if they've joined and conformed to the opinions of another bunch of edgy non-conformists?

>>52210609
>Not trusting obviously biased yellow press is edgy
Ask me how I know you're a canadian.

>>52210582
>>52210426
And it corresponds to casters having to spend spell slots before they know if their opponents are going to save or if their spell attacks are going to miss. Mystics can and should be structured more like casters than martials.

>>52210538
It's the core concept in a novel I'm working on, but I'd love to try it in a game.

>>52210498
Hmm...initial velocity (in feet per second) divided by rate of deceleration, let's assume 20 feet per second, then assume a 2-second reaction time on the part of the driver...

A little over 5 seconds. And it'd skid about 165 feet (1/2 initial velocity (in fps) times the seconds required to stop (including driver's reaction delay)).

Hey, look at that. In D&D terms, that's a little less than 1 round. I don't know how long a Shadowrun round is, though, but in D&D, those kids would be fine!

>>52210416
I have a plot twist I'm going to sick on my players.

There are five Kingdoms, each with a Giant Magic Crystal of a distinct color that is used to keep the society running. Each Main Crystal can be broken into smaller chunks (Where the bigger half will regenerate into it's full size) for smaller cities, or small shards are broken off of the Main Crystal for nobility.

The Crystals let this continent work as an Adventure style world. Touching the crystals "expands your competence when the time is right" (Lets you level up when you got enough XP), so it's extremely important for Adventurers, but also the world around them. Societies are shaped around who has access to Crystals, as the higher level you are, the better you are. Entire towns can succeed or fail depending on whether they were deemed worthy enough to have a Crystal Chunk or not.

Everyone believes that the Crystals were the God's gift to their world, and that each Crystal represents one of the Five Goddesses (Basically homebrew Gods I put in that are just one tier above the standard DnD Gods).

But in reality, the God's Gift on the world is cloaking the entire continent in a layer of magic that makes it undetectable to the outside world.

The outside world is FIRMLY Magitek, whereas the Player Continent is firmly standard fantasy. The Crystals are remnants of the Engine of a Capital-Class Airship that crash-landed on the continent thousands of years ago, which created the large crater-like Lake in the center of the landmass. Over the years the debris corroded and dissipated, except for the Crystals, which were jettisoned from the Engine Shaft to prevent an explosive reaction when the Airship made contact with the ground.

The truth is, when you get all five Crystals into proximity with each other, they create a source of energy that can be used to create Anti-Gravity, and thus, Airships. It's being hinted at with a current boss who's ability is controlling Animated Weaponry via crystal chunks.

>>52210634
>I look up.

>>52210582
>Hey, I want to make an immortal or a soul knife, I of course should pay for features I don't have
Those who play versatile mystics don't pick "to melee hit" powers to begin with, this is literally paying innocents for the sins of sinners

>>52210574
>Dealing in if you don't do it yourself it's false

Man I thought only /pol/ was that blind, find as many studies as possible and see if the vast majority line up with the original or if there are deviations. Then come to your own opinion and conclusions, or just be a shitposter on a Mongolian peanut growing forum.

>>52210538
LUMINOUS
MOSS

Every 12 hours, the moss on the cave ceiling goes through a fluorescing cycle. People call it sunlight because they don't have a better word for it. When it's dark, there are still little fungal fruits up there twinkling, which are what people call stars. If you've specifically pointed out "the sun" before, there is a VERY large creature on the cave ceiling that glows brightly as it eats the moss and travels around.

>>52210604
>Which path do you take?

The one that doesn't lead to your shitty house where you run shitty settings.

But presuming that you are holding a gun to my head? I don't turn.

>>52210646
>you see the sky
Not mentioned: "sky" is what people call the top of the cave.

>>52210633
One
Casters are mostly SAD, they hit with their Casting stat and force DCs with their Casting stat

Two
The powers I mentioned are stuff like bestial claw, you now need Casting Stat and Melee Stat (in this case Str) to be good, plus Dex and probably Con because you're Meleer

If I should I pay for being a caster, make all my features depend of Casting Stat not be forced to be MAD and on top of that having to spend Psy BEFORE rolling when no other martial or half martial does it

>>52210416
The ''Big bad'' slave master actually only buys convicted criminals and uses that labour to build schools , orphanages and ports on the islands he visists when he isn't focused on earning money in political schemes.

Have one of the players get tricked into believing a female slave who leads him by the nose.

After the party kills the slave master all these criminal slaves are now free from their magic seals to wreack havok on the wide seas ushering in a new age of piracy.

>>52210669
That's fucking thought out bro. Nice one.

About to DM, for the first time in about a week.
Does /5eg/ have any advice & starting tips for someone new?

>>52210680
> Sir, would you like fish or beef?
> I CHOOSE CHICKEN TENDIES. WHAT, I CAN'T?! YOU FUCKING NAZI! I'LL PISS ON YOUR ENTIRE KITCHEN! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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>>52210641
>20 feet per second=13.636 miles per hour

Want to try that again with a number a bus fleeing might actually be traveling at?

>>52210646
Are you suggesting it's flawed or enjoying the concept of the stars for the first time?

In the setting for my book the character looks up loads and describes the "sky", which is blue patches among thick "trees". It's actually blue fungus and the roots of trees in the world above, but because you control the narrative presentation, there's no lie, only perception. If someone asks "is the sky solid?" And you say "yes. Of course it is, it's the sky" then you're cooking with gas on the twist front.

>>52208876
trying to make a build based around this. what's the best way to go about this? i'm thinking mountain dwarf and go 16/14/14/8/10/14 and at some point get mace of dispater. darkness+cloak and then smite enemies down to finish them off for that sweet temp HP.

>>52210713
Wow, that's retarded.

>>52210669
How would you explain other things such as a breeze or perhaps a storm?

>>52210724
Enjoy yourself, don't be afraid to think outside the box. Prepare before hand and use the resources available to you. I strongly reccomend a tablet or laptop. Use shit like the spellviewer.exe for 5e that thing is fantastic.

Also, don't be too afraid with getting everything EXACTLY right. Sometimes you have to fudge a little here or there but it's all apart of the experience. Also, don't railroad your players but don't be afraid to give them a little push either.

>>52210706
Just like casters, mystics should be shitty in melee combat and suffer from MAD if they try to specialize in it. Their whole deal is mind over matter.

>>52209262
>>52210619
I'm making an Immortal Mystic With
>You never wear footwear.
>You sleep on bare earth.
>You never sit on a chair, preferring to stand
or sit on the floor.
Though I'm debating swapping one with
>You consume only water and raw
vegetables.
or just adding it.

They're supposed to be a mountain ascetic with a superhuman body. Break boulders with a single punch kind of guy.