Why are the new removal spells in MTG so fucking useless?

>>52185290
But you posted a good removal spell.

>>52185290
Are you the dude that posted the Nahiri worst walker thread? If you're really this bad then I encourage you to git gud before posting. If you're baiting then here's your reply.

>>52185573
Nahiri sucks, just like Fetal Push

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yeah, old removal spells were so much better

>>52185290
I don't see your problem. That's a fantastic removal spell.

>>52185290
>Why are the new removal spells in MTG so fucking useless?
Why are you so bad at magic?

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>>52185290
Indeed, why are red's removal spells so worthless?

>>52185534
>>52185710
>>52188121
Sword to Plowshares is a much better 1 mana removal spell and it was already released in the first set before all the powercreep.

>>52188193
The first set was the most powerful set, everything after is much more toned down.

>>52188193
It's also white

>>52188203
>>52188222
Well his point still stands, and to be honest instant speed removal has been getting much weaker.

>>52188259
They tried a standard environment with a low density of answers to see how it would turn out. They saw it's shit so they're revertng back to good removal, but it will take around two blocks to have things like doomblade back.

>>52188203
I wouldn't go that far. You could only do so much with the power 9 and dual lands back then. I'd argue Urza's Saga and Mirrodin 1.0 blocks were far more powerful in regards to the sheer degeneracy that could be achieved all on their own.

>>52189602
Tempest block through to Urza block was fucked.
They make up the majority of the broken reserved list cards in legacy.

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>>52185701

>>52188259

StP is THE best removal in the whole game period. Fatal Push is a very very good removal, just not the best

>>52190865

Tragic Slip was the stuff of nightmares back in standard

>>52188259

>Well his point still stands

Not really, they're not the same color and therefore they do different things.

And again, since alpha is the highest power set ever released with the most powerful spells for every color (Except, perhaps ironically, black), comparing something released now to something released then is hardly fair.

>and to be honest instant speed removal has been getting much weaker.

Most aspects of the game have gotten generally weaker.

>WTC wants sorcery speed removal to matter
>Prints a bunch of creatures that completely ignore sorcery speed removal

good job Wizards!

>>52185290
It kills goyf.

>>52185290

Fatal push isn't the most useless, but it's up there.

As far as CMC 1 spot removal it's goes

Path
Bolt
Push
Unsummon

Push and bolt can trade places depending on the type of deck you put it in. At least with bolt you can fling it to the face if it won't kill something.

>>52185290
>ever seeing a permanent above 3 CMC in legacy formats that wasn't cheated into play

>>52193563
Jace never gets cheated out.

Also what is Nic Fit and 12 post?

>>52193528

>bolt
>killing anything push can't

Push instead can kill most things bolt can't, including but not limited to:

-tharmogoyf
-scavenging ooze
-master of etherium
-serra ascendant
-grim flayer

and that's without revolt

>>52193673

>Confusing utility/flexibility over raw removal strength

ISHUGDDT

>>52193673

When is the last time Fatal push removed a newly summoned lilly?

>>52193673
you can't point push at someones face.

>>52185290
It's because removal makes for bad feefees, especially in Limited. We can't have your 2/2 with flying that cost 3 getting taken out easily, that's just bad feefees. I'm convinced Push being uncommon was a mistake

>>52190901
Path to Exile is objectively better in certain vintage match-ups where decks tend not to run basics, Workshop, and Dredge for example.

Overall hate cards are pretty weak right now in Standard. The overall guess is to make the game more appealing to the newer influx of players who can more safely play their Agro decks without concern of getting snuffed by Instants. It isn't fun if their Mythic gets slapped right out of the gate.

However, it's kinda both funny and sad seeing some of the kids at my FNM play against my Grixis Control and watching that realization of how important my untapped lands are.

>"Before the end of your turn, Fatal Push/Grasp of Darkness/Unlicensed Disintegration that guy you just dropped in."

Or the look on their face when I flash in a Torrential Gearhulk to recycle a Disallow. I'm just hoping Amonkhet puts more power in removal.

>>52188153

That should really be Creature or Player, be Instant or cost 1 less.

Any one of those would make it fine.

>>52194077
Maro has mentioned that they realize the balance of removal vs threats is pushed to the threats side and they are working to change that.

>>52193724
>summoned
Yugioh kiddie detected. Play the game a little more before forming an opinion on what makes a good card.

>>52194077
>1/2/3 CC instant speed removal is fine
>2 CC counterspells are detrimental to game fun

Am I missing something here, or is Maro?

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>>52194126
...or an olde fogey.

>>52194126

I've never played Yugimon but I've been playing magic since I was 16 (15 years ago.) I started playing in the Odyssey block my sweet summer child, you don't know bad from good.

>>52185290

>Creatures: The Tappening

there's your answer

>>52194156
We can't have timmy getting his 20 mana Creature getting countered for only two mana anon, come on.

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>>52194274
I was once that timmy, and was horribly confused by this older kid stopping all of my sweet creatures, baffled that pic related didn't come back to my hand. But it's part of the learning process and you grow out of it.

>>52194076

That is true, and in other push is objectively better

>>52194204

>summon enchantment
>summon artifact
>summon land

>>52194235

I can smell the fedora on this one

>>52194803

Typically the first one to call Fedora is the one to have a couple in their closet.

m'triggered.

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>>52194106
Like this?

>>52185701
>old

found the newfag

>>52193611
Jace can't be pushed anyway, but point taken. It's still rare.

>>52194967
>3R
>for 4 damage
>at common
Jesus Christ. What happened to the common power level? I was looking at my Frontier deck, all I ran for commons was Swamp and Duress.

>>52194967
jesus christ, that art is horrible

>>52193836
Sure. Let's go back to the era of Draw-Go control where playing the game is something only one do the two players can do.

>>52195284
> is something only one do the two players can do.
>tfw to intelligent to play creatures:the tappening

>>52193836
>I'm convinced Push being uncommon was a mistake
We're pretty sure Fatal Push is the uncommon printed on the rares sheet
I see it as a way of correcting the "mistake"

>>52195159
Flame Lash is not playable in any limited format, but from a preconstructed deck, so it's rarity doesn't have anything to say.

>>52195310
>T1 I play a land and cast-
>>Counter with Mental Misstep
>T2 play a land and cast-
>Countered with spell snare
>T3 play a land and cast a creature.
>>Resolves but I'm going to exile it on my turn
Etc etc.

>>52194967

It's missing the Land lockdown.

>>52194109

That is seriously some great fucking news.

>>52195401
>Mental Misstep
Modern became a format in Aug 2011, and Misstep was banned. It was banned in Legacy in September. Misstep was never standard with Spell Snare. But that's beside your point (it's only viable in Vintage or Kitchen Table).

This isn't going after the fact that Misstep was a legitimately broken card. Your example is shit, and your saltiness about counterspells is pathetic. Get good.

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>>52185290

>>52195552
Besides mental misstep he does have a point. When the other person playing consistently ends up with a empty board state (besides lands) and obviously isn't having fun then something is wrong with the game design.

>>52195284
>boohoo I'm too stupid to play around counter magic so that means that when my epic 9/9 dragon gets countered only one person is playing ;_;
kys

>>52195622
t. Someone that can't follow a post chain

>>52188915
>two blocks
Try two years. They've just now realized that standard is shit but they can only now start changing things back. That's 4 blocks down the road because the next two blocks are at the printer and the 3rd block out is in the art phase.

>>52195610

You practically need to sacrifice something to the gods to have the correct counter at the correct time in modern, what the fuck are you on about?

The format fosters counter spells that are so specific that they are barely useful at the time you are holding them.

Go play a different game you faggot.

>>52195684

>Implying this wasn't by design.

Format has to be shit to make people flock to it once its not. Wizard's is stupid like a fox.

>>52185290
Because kill spells are feelbad material now.
First it started with nerfing spells that negated regeneration, now it's progressed further.

>>52185701
Damnation was in the same set as that, argument discarded.

>>52188193
And I can only run 4. Maybe I want more removal, or maybe I'm not running white.

>>52195762
He was talking about when Draw-Go control was big.

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that feeling when you run 21 counters and 4 Disks.

>>52196133
Uh, what is the win condition? Keep in mind I can't read the cards at this resolution.

>>52188193
>Before all the power creep
Yeah man, moxen, dual lands, black lotus, sol ring, time walk and ancestral recall were pretty weak cards. I'm glad we now have such overpowered shit as siege rhino and Jace the Mind Sculptor.

>>52196145
sorry, it's an ancient list and ancient pic.

1 Rainbow Efreet and 4 Stalking Stones.

>>52193528
>unsummon
Are you retarded? Do you have brain damage?
You also missed out on Swords to Plowshares.

Not technically cmc1 but Dismember should also be on the list.

>>52196209

Talking about modern legal shit you mongoloid.

>>52196294
Wow that's super interesting, so you're ignoring vapor snag then?

If you're looking at CMC1 removal in modern and putting Push at the #3 best spot and still calling it 'up there' when it comes to uselessness you -are- retarded, off the top of my head I can name at least 5 other 1cmc spot removal spells that are worse.

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>>52195610

If the other player is constantly slinging Counters and Removal to each thing being played there's a really good chance their board is nearly if not completely empty, too. There are ways to work around this: just create a scenario where the deck can't keep 1 for 1ing you and you'll eventually gain advantage. If your deck can't do that it's time to retune.

Sometimes the whole playstyle of Draw-Go is exciting because it's about which player blinks, bluffs or gets punished first. It can almost feel like fencing with a constant back and forth waiting for that perfect opening.

My most exciting victories in Magic are from when I manage to bait out their counter with a non-important cast, hold out until they tap out, wait nervously until I can follow up with my own counter (Or two or three) counters of my own just in case, all the while looking at my dwindling library and shrinking life total... not when I just kept slapping down creatures and swinging in.

>>52196471
>MFW it's 2017 and your shit-posting this hard

>>52195082
Planar Chaos was a decade ago

>>52189602
You say that, but there was also a bunch more super powerful cards.
Time Vault
Sol Ring
Wheel of Fortune
Channel
Regrowth
Animate Dead
Balance
Berserk
BoP
Dark Ritual
Lightning Bolt
Contract from Below (the most powerful card ever printed period)
Plow
Counterspell
Demonic Tutor
Sinkhole
Fastbond
Forcefield
Mana Short
Mana Vault
Mind Twist
Nevinyrral's Disk
Power Sink
Stasis
Winter Orb
Armageddon
Wrath of God

Fatal push is good though, and you've got stuff like unlicensed disintegration which is murder that sometimes bolts your opponent in the face.

What do you guys think about Frontier? Do you play it?

>>52196133
holy shit that's gross.

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>>52197630

I think it has potential. Fetches and Baby Jace are incredibly important right now but decks are still being discovered.

I just like it because I can take one of my favorite decks ever and put giant robots in it.

>Flashing in Torrential Gearhulk to replay Dig Through Time

>>52197630
I would play it, but it has fetches in it so I might as well just play modern.

>>52197630
The best format by far and I wait for the day memedern dies and it replaces it.

>>52198354
>memedern
>Implying modern being meme is worse than hipstier format.

Keep your shitty format, Modern is where it's at.

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Reminder that the best removal spell in MTG is also one of the first ever printed.

>>52198408
>memedern is where it's at
Yeah I sure do love dying to hyper aggro, getting outvalued and outpressured by DSJ and if i somehow manage to survive that you get tron and scapeshift faggots killing you. It's a fucking non interactive aggro format and it is probably the worst format after tiny leaders.

>>52198512

>Im bad at playing a really unforgiving format where decks/playing skill need to be dialed to 11.

I need fries for all this salt.

>>52198586
>if you don't like this shitty aggro format you're bad
I regularly win my local legacy tournaments so nice try faggot. Just because you like playing a garbage uninteractive format doesn't mean it's good. I can't wait for frontier to take it over I fucking hate memedern.

>>52198700
Why the fuck would frontier be any better in that regard?

>>52198700
>win at legacy
>modern is too uninteractive.


Holy shit my sides. Your not fooling anyone JR. If you want non-interactive try actually playing legacy or vintage instead of claiming you do. Force of will Isn't a want in decks that can run it, it's a need to make sure your opponent doesn't go off on turn 1.

You have incredible thin skin and weak points for someone who supposedly plays and wins in the second fastest format in the game.

>>52198706
Because it wouldn't be dominated by linear uninteractive aggro/combo? Actual control would exist? People bitch about frontier being 4c goodstuff (which it isn't) but disregarding that the meta would be 10x healthier than memederns ever could be.

>>52198786
I know how legacy works you mongoloid and just because there are a couple degenerate decks doesn't invalidate the rest of the format.

>implying I don't know how FoW works
wew lad

The difference between 90% of legacy decks and modern decks is that they actually try to interact with the opponent instead of goldfishing faster. It's obvious you're a memedern babby who can't handle his favorite format being called out so just stop now kiddo.

>>52198854

>legacy decks try to interact instead of working harder to win condition.
>admits that decks try to go off before opponents turn 1.

Ok good job getting me to reply this long troll.

>defending modern
>no pod
>no twin
>no good control
>no good combo
>legacy is uninteractive but I'm gonna ignore Miracles exists
>death's shadow zoo requires skill
>fundrazi requires skill
>the format almost costs as much as legacy to get into at this point

I'd respond to you and give your (You), but I saw your other posts. You know nothing about MTG, you're just being a contrarian cunt because /tg/ has the easiest (you) farming this side of /tv/

>>52198354
Shill pls go

>>52199056
go back to your containment general

>>52198854
Define interactive.

>>52199112

I wouldn't bother asking the troll questions, this feeds the troll.

>>52198928
>admits that decks try to go off before opponents turn 1

Not parent but lets actually see what decks try to do this:
belcher (1%)
oops all spells (1%)
manaless dredge (1%)
Those numbers are rounded up, so total number of decks that try to win turn 1, is less than 3% of the meta. Please actually know something about a format before talking about it.

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>>52199086
No u

I never said Modern was in a good place, but Frontier is pretty awful. I'd rather shell out for Legacy than play the boredom that is Frontier.

>>52199112
actually interacting with the opponent? Not goldfishing to win regardless of whether it's an aggro or combo goldfish?

Modern is filled with uninteractive decks like infect (on a decline right now thankfully), Affinity, Burn, Dredge, Bogles (deadish), Titan shift, Ad nas, UR storm, Amulet titan, Living end, Goryo's/Grishoalbrand and blood moon/chalice cheese decks. What's even worse is that the format doesn't have great tools to fight these decks and they flourish because of it.

>>52198510
This is because they had no concept of what was balancing at the time.
StP is ridiculously hyperefficient and everyone knows it. Even its attempted fix, Path to Exile, was far too much.
Exile beam for W is overdoing it and white shouldn't have such exceptional spot control anyway.

>>52199191
>I haven't actually played frontier the post
Pro Tip: It isn't siege rhino.format

>>52199292
It will be when people figure out that 5c bring to rhino is the best deck.

>>52199344
Nice meme, maybe try actually playing the format before shitposting about it.

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>>52199292
WBRG feat. Rhinos is indeed a deck in Frontier, my man. It's not the only deck, true. But I am disinterested in the format as a whole. I've only been playing it since it's all the store nearest me runs and it's easy to clean house in their tournaments.

>>52193563
Shardless Agent, Misthollow Griffin, JtMS, Leovold, TNN (doesn't really apply here but still), TKS, Matter Reshaper, Recuiter and Prelate.

You having a giggle?

>>52199724
He said:
>above 3 CMC
Not above 2. Just saying.

>>52199767
The context though is creatures Push hits though.

>>52199406

What are you running? I've been building a Dark Jeskai. I loved a similar deck when the Tarkir block was in and adding in giant robots just makes it more fun.

>>52185290
because neckbeards sperg when their priceless collections are invalidated by power creep.
It's both a blessing and a curse of MTG.

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>>52185290
>One mana for a removal spell with reasonable drawbacks
>bad

>>52198803
The power level is low and the cards aren't very fun. Too simple. Nu magic

>>52199258

What's interactive mean?

>Shit I don't actually know how to put that into words, I think I know what it means. I've heard a lot of people complain about interactive decks and I'm just spouting what they say. I know I'll just use magic slang I've heard like goldfishing to clearly demonstrate that I'm not a noob. If I say goldfishing enough times he'll buy it.

Bad player is bad. No one is falling for your shit noob.

>>52200357
I literally just defined it you mong. Interacting with your opponent. Killing their creatures, countering their spells, using hand disruption etc. Interactive is NOT goldfishing your opponent to 0 by racing them or by goldfishing a combo

kys

>>52200583

Goldfishing?

>>52197630
>What do you guys think about Frontier?

Useless format. I hated Khans era Standard and don't want it to ever come back.

>>52200673
Goldfishing is a term where you test a deck without an opponent and play until you "win". This is a term usually associated with non-interactive decks as they often play as if the opponent didn't exist.
Affinity dumping the hand and racing you down would be an example of this for an aggro deck. Grishoalbrand reanimating Griselbrand t1 and drawing the deck to kill you would be another example or when the sit around just playing draw spells sculpting their hand not interacting with you at all.

Nice job being pedantic though it's really cute when you have no argument as to why modern isn't a garbage format

>>52196133
why 3 forbids?
you dont have that much card advantage and you will likely just be ditching lands or other counters to it

>>52200817
>Nice job being pedantic though it's really cute when you have no argument as to why modern isn't a garbage format

I'm not the guy you were talking to. I just was reading the thread and didn't know the term.

>>52195383
You can actually use it in standard anon.

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>>52185290
Why are the old removal spells in MTG so fucking useless?

>>52200832
>you will likely just be ditching lands
Yes. That's why you play 26 of them.

>>52188193
Fatal push is arguably better in some formats because the life gain of swords or the ramp of path can be important. This kills a ton of relevant creatures even without cracking a fetch with no upside for your opponent.

>>52204901
Fatal Push will never replace Swords because Marit Lage exists.

>>52190865
>Low cost black instant speed removal for sacrifice decks
Certainly more situational on other people's turns, but in the right deck it could be good.

>>52205270
I'd have to agree fatal push is far more versatile, cracking a fetch to destroy 97% of relevant creatures is better than having to build around an admittedly technically superior removal spell.

>>52190479
Tempest standard was fun.

Yes I'm old.

>>52205293
You would only really consider it for a deck that is already built around sacrificing creatures.

I think it's also more likely to come up in edh.

Sac a token, play an instant: B, -13/-13.

Goodbye large threat.

>>52205321
Yeah, that sounds about right. Problem is that such decks are far less playable in modern/legacy, meaning that fatal push has to fill that niche. Not that I'm complaining, they're both very excellent.

>>52185290
>useless removal
>Fatal Push

>>52188193
> first set before all the powercreep

Wow, /tg/ really sucks at mtg.

>TIER 1 DECKS FATAL PUSH IS BAD AGAINST
Shardless - Too much value for 1 for 1s
Miracles - Lel
Eldrazi - Anus Smasher isn't even a legal target
Lands - Can't blow up Marit Lage

Any more questions as to why it's not a Legacy card?

>>52205298
Rathi dragon was my homeboy.

>>52194156
Countering a creature is more painful than killing one, a killed creature can still trigger an etb, ability or death trigger or even be saved from another source, a countered spell does nothing, you lost the spell and the mana, wasted. That's why cheap counters are considered taboo.

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>>52194329
>But it's part of the learning process and you grow out of it.
But new players don't want to learn anymore, that's why they removed shroud and replaced it with hexshroud because new players didn't bother reading what shroud really did and use it as hexproof. Same reason WOTC stop using regeneration and protection, new players don't want to learn, they already know everything and things that don't work like they think they work need to be removed.
Also don't make a setting that isn't based on the lowest common denominator understanding of the subject, people might learn something and they don't want that.

>>52206373
>Same reason WOTC stop using regeneration
Regeneration was removed because it was overly complicated and unintuitive to the point where many experienced players often didn't remember correctly what it did -- forgetting that the creature became tapped after the reg shield was used, or that is was removed from combat, etc.

>and protection
No, protection -- much like landwalk, fear, and intimidate -- was removed due to causing unfun gameplay where a card would be randomly insane against your deck because you happened to play a particular color.

>>52206452
Shut up Maro.

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Would pic related be a good addition to the Modern card pool? Or would it make GBx too strong?

>>52207241
i think it deserves serious consideration. It would curb the aggro decks, but wotc want's any strategy that doesn't revolve around turning dudes sideways to be nothing more than a novelty, at least when it comes to modern.

>>52206452
>we didn't want bad matchups
Maro showing his face in /tg/ after having to ban reflector mage is fucking great. And his timmyswarm still can't beat papa's pussy parade running general removal.

>>52207241
I'd be okay with it if it came in tapped. Otherwise you're giving tron/jund just one more answer no one else can fully use.

>>52185290
because removal was an ultimate cheeky and stupid moveset for cards anyway. The core mechanic of removal is to prevent the other player form playing the game. When you sit down and play cards with someone, I can't describe how unfun it is to sit down, not have something that hardcounters removal, and then have the next 5-10 minutes be you saying, "Ok I-" "HAHA NOPE! HERE'S MINE NOW :DDD"

>>52207492

>The core mechanic of removal is to prevent the other player form playing the game

No, that's counterspells

And this argument is retarded when it comes to counterspells too

>>52207432
>okay if came into play tapped
I have some bad news.

>>52185658
What's it like being a dribbling retard that needs mommy to tie their shoes?

>>52207537
*and it required tapping to activate

>>52207492
>I sat down to play not-magic and this son of a bitch started playing magic. everyone around us was playing magic too. it was so rude.

>>52207241

It can't be anything Mardu, Jund or GB can use.

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>at worst
>1R deal 3

>at best
>1R deal whatever you want

>>52208605
>target creature

>>52208605
i really like energy, i hope we see more of it in the future

>>52208821
if it hit players it would be seriously broken though. 20 energy isnt all that hard to achieve

>>52209421
Yea but just because it isn't broken doesn't mean it's good

>>52210070
never claimed it is. merely pointing out the design is fundamentally flawed. reducing the cost would be too strong, making it hit players would be too strong, increasing the energy would probably make it too strong solely for energy production. pretty much impossible to make strong without breaking it in combination other cards

>>52196018
>Damnation
Hm? Overpriced Wrath of God? Why, yes, yes. Definitely something that requires pointing out. Stop being such a fucking retard.

>>52210467
How is it overpriced? They have the same cmc.

>>52210490
You know damn well I'm not talking mana costs. And you know damn well Damnation's not as great of a card as people like to think. It's good, but it's entirely overblown because it's, WOW, black WoG.

>>52206373
Regeneration being removed is a good thing, though. What are you even on about?

>>52210541
I genuinely thought you were talking about mana cost. Carry on.

>>52210592
he never claimed it was a good mechanic, he simply said it was removed because many new players misinterpreted (or were never taught) what "regenerate" meant

>>52210673
And I'm saying the mechanic being removed has actually good reasons. Mechanic was too complex for its own good.

>>52199169
Forgot Storm, Sneak and Show, Reanimator and Blood Moon Stompy variants aim to effectively end the game on the first turn.

>>52207432
Tron already has Oblivion Stone, for the purposes of the deck it's strictly better.

>>52185290
Doesn't even hit Serra Angel or Shivan Dragon.

>>52207432
>>52207706
>tapping enchantments
Fuck off Future Sight.

>>52188193
>It's not the best card every printed in its category so it's worthless
I'm glad people like you are always upset by nothing, you deserve it.

>>52205685
At least at my shop, the Shardless, UBx Delver, Shardless, and Aggro Loam players are all playing a couple. Card seems pretty good.

>>52194260
This meme implies mtg was ever supposed to be anything else
I'm over it senpai

>>52185290
What's bad about this card again?

>>52207413
Bad matchups are still part of the game and WotC wouldn't be able to remove them even if they wanted to. What they didn't like was hate cards that targetetd colors rather than strategies.

>>52212767
>Serra Angel
second best finisher

>>52212767
>Shivan Dragon
timmy bait

>>52221296
He's talking about the iconic ABUR fatties, dipshit.

>>52210467
>Wrath of God in enemy color?
S...sure anon. Hyuck what a... a chump card.

File: enchantress paper.jpg (65KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 800x600px

>>52212832
Your opinion on enchantments is like little baby.

>>52218959
It's not B for ruinous path at instant.

>>52222444
>Gideon still leaves a 2/2 behind

>>52222420
I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying people blow it out of proportion because it's THE DAMNATION. If it had been printed as much as WoG, nobody would give a shit about Damnation. Just like you don't see anybody jizzing all over WoG, which got printed into oblivion.

>>52185290
>fatal push
>useless

i know this is b8 but its still triggering

>>52222766
but it's availability in a different color makes a huge difference

it's just functionally distinct from all other mass black removal

>>52222987
I'm pretty sure it's not as relevant as people like saying it is. Went on mtgtop8, looked for legacy and modern major and pro lists and pretty much every deck running Damnation only runs 1 copy. From time to time I'd see a Junk list running it (instead of WoG for some reason). Wrath even showed up in higher numbers and in way more decks that Damnation did.

Damnation is just that sort of card everybody wants because it is good and only got one printing, but really, it's overhyped.

>>52223123
>wrath of god is overhyped
>damnation is overhyped
Pretty sure you don't play a lot of magic.

>>52223579
I never said WoG is overhyped unless I made a typo and I'm blind to it.

Regarding Damnation, everybody and their mothers wants one, even though it really isn't played as much as we're led to believe. I honestly think some pros playing it as a 1-of are really just getting paid by, say, scg or whatever, to simply include it. Especially Junk lists. Makes it easier for the retards to go apeshit over top8 results and slam their cash to get the latest meme.

Seriously. Card is good, I don't deny that, but it has no business being as expensive as it is and everybody jizzes over it too much. It's just a black WoG. That's it. It's good, but blown out of proportion.

Another example is in EDH, where people keep going after Damnation as if it's the absolute best black boardwipe and completely forget Mutilate and Toxic Deluge exist and both blow Damnation out of the water in that format.

>>52190865
tragic slip is great, what are you on about.

>>52223699
there literally is no other 4cmc mass black removal spell that destroys creatures, languish and mutilate are about as close as you get and those aren't nearly as reliable/only function best in mono

your best options are 6cmc replacements or crux of fate which obviously is way worse, damnation is out ahead of a lot of mass removal for black

>>52223996
Yes, and that, along with the fact that every top8 deck running it in majors and pro level tournaments only have 1 Damnation mainboard at most, totally justifies its price tag in secondary market and the hype it receives.

Like I said, it's good, I never said otherwise, but it's blown out of proportion taking in account its actual relevance.

Sure, it probably doesn't deserve all the posts I'm doing right now anyway. I'm simply triggered. But I know what I'm saying isn't totally without reason.

>>52185290
nigger, this card single handedly killed tarmogoy
at least in real formats like legacy

>>52206452
No one with a fucking brain forgot to tap a regenerating creature. Sorry you have ADD, you little millennial shithead. Some of us were born before 1990 :^)