/5eg/ D&D 5e General

http://www.strawpoll.me/12532696

New poll, this time for rogues.

>Okay, the 'Food and Provisions' joke has run its course. Back to normal.

You shut up, you shut your fucking mouth right now.

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>>52181858
Always wanted to try a Mastermind/Battlemaster build for my warlord needs.

>/5eg/ has been jerking off for more than a year about martials landing multiple GWM hits every round forever and the absurd damage this can do
>Mystics blowing limited resources and all their actions to do this is frowned upon

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>>52181885
It was a good meme.

Does anyone know where I can buy floating platforms like the ones they use on Critical Role?

Why do I keep reading everywhere that resurrecting someone requires for the death not to have been more than one day ago?
The spell description for Resurrection in the PHB specifically says that you can resurrect someone who's been dead for no more than 100 years.

>>52181887
I always loved playing mastermind.
The bonus action help will make your teammates love you.

>>52181889
The Animated Weapon combination isn't the issue. The fact that Mystic is too versatile is the issue.

>>52181858
Was hard choice but Thief will always be fun to me. The acrobatics and Advantage on Stealth is awesome.

>>52181909
There are different spells that resurrect people, anon. Though I don't remember any with one day requirement.

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Not going to lie, Psychic Detective psions were always my favorite.

>>52181889
I think that's just some people. There's a large number of us that care more about how versatile it is.

It simply affords too many options compared to other classes with the amount of disciplines available to them. I get that they're basically supposed to replace spells and such.

However, I think I'd much prefer they limit disciplines to orders, actually. This way we could force them into more specific rolls and discourage dipping all over the place.
Perhaps as a higher level class ability you get the opportunity to dip into another orders discipline. I think that would be reasonable.

Reposting in new thread:
A player of mine wants to multiclass his paladin to warlock. He has strong story related justifications so it would make sense but I'm a bit worried how strong he would end up being. Higher level spells slots for smites that come back with short rest and all that.
He's level 7 right now and said if he's gonna do it he'll wait until level 10 so he gets the next tier of paladin spell slots.
Though reading more thoroughly now I realize he wouldn't get to keep those slots anyway because of the way spell slots are calculated for multiclassing, so he would probably take the first warlock level at 9.
How is palalock? Strong? Too strong even? Or is there something we're missing and it all falls apart and he would be just gimping himself.

>>52181920
>>52181951
>every Mystic has seven disciplines and all the powers within them available at the level the game is actually played
I can't take this versatility criticism seriously when I know there's a whopping three people in this general who have actually played a Mystic and know better.

>>52181939
If I'm not missing any, there's:
>Revivify, max 1 min after death
>Raise Dead and Reincarnate, max 10 days after death
>Resurrection, max 1 century after death
>True Resurrection, max 2 centuries after death

In addition, for anyone that missed the previous polls, I'll put them down here.

http://www.strawpoll.me/12466636/r
http://www.strawpoll.me/12476406/r
http://www.strawpoll.me/12492204/r
http://www.strawpoll.me/12498055/r
http://www.strawpoll.me/12511533/r
http://www.strawpoll.me/12527550/r
http://www.strawpoll.me/12519777/r
http://www.strawpoll.me/12523063/r

Some of the results are as expected, others are a bit surprising.

>>52181953
It's good but not that good.
If he's just dipping he's really not gonna get "higher level spell slots" for smites. Just basically means he'll get to recover a single smite slot or two per rest.

And if you're planning to hit level 20 he now robs himself of his capstone. And paladin capstones are pretty cool imo.

I'm expecting swashbuckler to lead in this new poll. Everyone plays swashbucklers.

>>52181953
Weaker than a single class paladin.

I made a thief rouge did I fuck up by not rolling an assassin?

>>52181858
The fuck is Inquisitive?

>>52181986
Mystic's Psionic Restoration's Restore Life (5, so it's a "third level" power) is also just Revivify.

So I'm playing a Human Avatar Mystic next chance I get but I can't see any feats that I really need for my character.

So what's a good fun one? I was thinking Ritual Caster Wizard for a Familiar and some INT based casting but it doesn't really match the character I'm going for.

>>52181951
>remove one of the free disciplines at level one
Real hard.

>>52182034
Go with the non-variant human and do the point-buy to get a bunch of odd stats.

Feats don't seem all that worth it for Mystic, and the extra bonuses would probably make things go more smoothly. That said, Skilled would be my pick, I suppose.

>>52182029
No, Thief is better at sneaking, mobility, dungeon exploring and has a kick ass capstone. Assassin get's a fairly awesome damage dealer at level 3 and the rest id pretty much shit.

>>52181996
>paladin capstones are pretty cool
Cool, yes, but they don't really do much.
>>52182026
How so? Pretty much all he wouldn't be getting are stuff like some damage from improved smite, the spell ending thing and some spells.

>>52181953
You don't use the Multiclass Spell Slot table for Warlock multiclassing.

>>52182062
their captone is good but eh

>>52182031
http://dnd.wizards.com/sites/default/files/media/upload/articles/UA%20Gothic%20Characters.pdf

Sherlock Holmes the archetype.

>People saying mystic doesn't add Str and Dex to damage on weapons
Do people not realize that's only with Psychic Weapon discipline focus feature?

>>52181977
Again, my concern is more that the disciplines can be taken from anywhere which turns it into a "build your own class" type class. 5 disciplines offers you a good bit of versatility.

Again, I'd just like it to be more focused. That's really it.

>>52182070
Don't you still count only half of your paladin levels for it though? So if you were level 9 you would be at level 4 of the multiclassing table.

>>52182029
Is your party the sort to spend a lot of time in cities and listen to everything you demand in order to use any of your abilities? If they're not willing to play James Bond Assassin looses a lot of it's power.

>>52182093
No. Warlock does not have the Spellcasting class feature, It has the Pact Magic feature, so you do not use that table at all, because you don't have 2 classes with the Spellcasting feature.

>>52182065
>they don't really do much
I beg to differ. It's basically your "time to fuck up the boss" mode.

>>52182079
There's a lot of people getting really upset about the Mystic without comprehending things like their action economy, psi pool, power limits, or what "levels" are.

>>52182123
Ah, right you are. Warlock is fucking weird.

>>52182093
No. You need 2 different classes with the Spellcasting class feature (by that name) before you have to consult the Multiclass slot table. Warlocks don't have Spellcasting, they have Pact Magic.

>>52182093
You should really look harder at the rules for multiclassing. That's why I said you don't need to worry about him getting high level smite slots. He'll only have low level ones. Also, just don't offer that many short rests.

>>52182065
>Pretty much all he wouldn't be getting are stuff like some damage from improved smite, the spell ending thing and some spells.

There you go.

>>52182034

well. i had shit stats rolled.

So i'm going avatar, human variant. with heavy armor feat. i gonna take the 10ft penalty, wear heavy armor + shield and use my actions to control others.

>>52182074
Oh, I thought nobody took pre-Crawford UAs seriously.

>>52182229
Some of them were decent. The Gothic Heroes was one of them, even if some people sperg out over Revenant.

>>52182114
my artificer died and we're in the underdark that's where he was introduced so not yet. I plan on doing some fun stuff in cities

What races give Intelligence bonuses? Humans, Half-Elves, High Elves, Gnomes, Tiefling, Minotaur and Hobgoblins are what I can think of.

>>52182321
gnomes are the biggest one and they have adv on save throws against magic

>>52182321
Yuan-ti. They'll make some kickass Psions.

>>52182321
Fire Genasi

>>52182340
Wait. A Yuan-ti Avatar Mystic would be pretty cool. He developed a much greater emotional range all of a sudden and now helps people out because it makes him feel good.

>>52182340
Seriously. Yuan-ti are supposed to have pretty good psionics. I've always liked (conceptually) the way some monsters have interesting and often powerful psi abilities, it'd be cool to stat out and balance psionic versions of such creatures, based off what they had in 1e, 2e, or 3e.

What disciplines should I choose if I want to play a Mystic like a 4e ardent? I'm thinking of being Order of the Avatar, and starting with Mantle of Command, Mantle of Joy, and Psionic Restoration.

>>52182501
I was going to take the same except trading Mantle of Joy for Crown of Disgust. I like the idea of psychic wall.

>>52182501
Mantle of Fury.

So, Mystics present the perfect framework for what martials should have been.

Refluff all psychic abilities as weapons or items: instead of breathing acid, you're throwing an acid bomb. Instead of making someone really scared of you because of your mind power, you're just so damn bulky that by flexing your muscles, they piss themselves in terror. Etc, etc.

>>52182611
Go back to 4e if that's what you want Martials to be. I don't even say that as a joke because it is what 4e did, and it's a fun game and good at it.

5e is a different game going back to the older roots though. not everyone wants to be using "Powers", some people enjoy playing a fighter who just smacks people with a sword.

>>52182382
>Yuan-ti mystics are actually less autistic than most snek people, which is why they're shunned

>>52182672
I'm imagining a group of sneks yelling normie get out REEEEEEE, to the only one who has empathy.

>>52182611
>So, Mystics present the perfect framework for what martials should have been.

There's honestly not much martially about most mystic characters at all, especially since they function like a mix of 3e ardent and 3e binder. There's also that they're not great at sustained damage...

>refluff

...and that they are still affected by magic resistance and all other magic counters. So yeah, your martial is throwing magical acid.

>>52182672
>>52182685
>tfw meditated too hard and learned em-path-ee

>>52182667
Yeah, the attitude of those people sucks though.

>If presented with an option between hitting people with a sword, which I want to do, and doing something more complicated, which I don't want to do, I must do the more complicated thing because it exists.

Champion Fighter should be a containment class for these people, not the ideal by which all other martials are made.

>>52182710
>not the ideal by which all other martials are made.

They're not, so...

>>52182693
>especially since they function like ... 3e binder.

Huh. Well I know exactly how i'm going to pitch non-psionic mystic to the inevitable 'psionics don't exist in my game world REEEEEEEEE' GM.

>>52182724
Pretty much every martial spec is the "I hit it with my sword (and only that), and stay quiet outside of combat" class this edition.

Refluffing mystics would make a way more fun martial.

>>52182693
It's also not hard to apply common sense crunch changes to suit the new fluff.

>>52182710
I'm pretty sure that's a role Paladins and Ranger can fill though. They have spell slots they can use on special powers with effects and multiple targeting. Also Battlemaster's can use superiority dice to activate special abilities. They can't use the powers an unlimited time for obvious reasons.

>>52182735
"Give me a moment, I'm going to consult my collection of spirit specialists"?

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>mystic only has half as many disciplines (3 from any +2 from archetype)
>psi limit is "per round" not "per talent"
>Psionic Mastery doesn't permit for multiple concentrations

fixed?

>>52182667
>go back to 4E if you want to have fun and be useful as a martial
Huh

>>52182764
Eh, sorta. Rather than psionic disciplines, you learn how to bind a specific vestige to yourself. You gain it's abilities, and by letting it posess you a bit more than normal (focusing on it), you gain access to more of it's powers.

I'd even give up level 2 telepathy if it let the whole thing work. It's pretty perfect.

>>52182751
>and stay quiet outside of combat
Skills and enhanced physical ability. Fighters can kick break down walls, climb up walls, threaten people and all that jazz. Maybe not as good as Casters but they don't need to burn spellslots.

>>52182779
Well if you find martials in this edition bland why do you keep playing it? I personally enjoy them over casters in this edition, especially Rogues so I can't offer a fix for something without seeing it's broken.

>>52182751
>this edition

As with all editions but 4e.

>a way more fun martial

They're still affected by magic resistance, etc. Stuff like "throwing flasks of acid" is honestly terrible, but a wild talent char who just acts like a warlord would be fine.

>>52182772
You just made it unplayable

>>52182779

>please make a sharp stick whacker as useful as bending the fabric of reality

>I mean stick whacking is so useful, it's why we use it to the day, right?

Just consign yourself to your job as a Wall of Meat spell, pleb

>>52182759
>battle masters can't use powers an unlimited number of time for obvious reasons
Oh, that's cool, I g---
>casters can use cantrips an unlimited number of times which are actually special powers

Grogs like you who killed the martial dice in the beta are probably the worst thing about this edition.

>>52182822
What, is ~20 spells not enough for you?

Mystics look really fucking cool. Does Order of Avatar really get all it's aura's SIMULTANEOUSLY? because that is an amazing support class right there.

>>52182693
>and all other magic counters
I'm pretty sure this release of Mystic makes no mention of the old magic-psionic transparency rule, and the lack of gestures or other outward signs of casting (or manifesting as the case would be here) means you couldn't Counterspell them even if the transparency rule were in effect.

>>52182840
>>52182840
yep

>>52182833
I never played beta so I can't comment on those. Cantrips are very minor effects and personally I think they should've still had a limit on casting them. Most likely equal to Modifier plus Level.

Imagine a magical tome made entirely out of bone, even the pages, filled with ancient secrets and lost wisdom. A book of artifact rarity to be precise.
What information would this tome specifically contain and what power would it give it's owner?

>>52182857
Why not play a wizard, then?

>>52182843
Yes they do, and their order disciplines are all based around buffing their allies as well. They have to take an out-of-order discipline to make use of the temporary HP thing on their own, but it's still really good. WotC brought back the 3.5/4e ardent and I love it.

>>52182772
>half as many disciplines
No, just get rid of one of the bonus first level disciplines.
>per round instead of per talent
Nah.
>Psi Mastery not doing multi-con
It's not a huge problem when you consider this is a separate pool that can't be used alongside your normal PP and caps out at 11 at level 1-fuckin'-5

Honestly, 99% of games run here featuring a Mystic aren't even gonna get to 11.

>>52182772
This class doesn't need much fixing at all. The core mechanics are solid and most of the abilities are fine. The per talent limit is fine.

The class should be versatile with unique abilities, and it has that. The only problem is that some of the abilities are to powerful for their point cost and need to be tweaked (like Mantle of Fear's Incite Panic. That one is nuts)

>>52182871
Lichdom, durr.

>>52182879
It's boring and too much work to keep track of so many spells

And I like Mystic's flavor

>>52182772
The only people who have a problem with it at all are the entitled scum who bitch about Wot4E monks not being good enough every single thread, and insufferable newfags to D&D that aren't aware of the role of psionics in D&D.

>>52182871
>Imagine a magical tome made entirely out of bone, even the pages
Contains every spell of the Necromancy school, allows you to raise/command more (or more powerful) undead.

>>52182868
Yeah, you're definitely objectively wrong then.

At-Will powers are fine, and a healthy part of class design in the 5e framework. Which makes the martial's lack of at-will powers unhealthy.

When 90% of actions in combat are "I basic attack the guy again" combat will inevitably get boring.

>>52182900
This. There's a few select powers that need some adjustment, either in effect or power cost.

Easy example: Tough Hide. It's just +2 AC, flat out, no restrictions on armor or shields or anything else. Not even Concentration, it's just there. Pretty good for a first level power. The Wu Jen Force armor one is just "Mage Armor+", also, for a first level slot equivalent in PP. 14+Dex instead of 13+Dex, PLUS force resistance? C'mon.

>>52182907
The Wizard is still far more versatile than a Mystic. The Mystic may have more abilities at hand, but they're grouped into disciplines which each fit a specific theme/niche. Wizards can have a far more diverse spell-set.

>>52182871
It's a manual on bone carving. Gives the owner proficiency with bone carving tools after 60 hours of study.

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What would be a better rate of growth for psi points?

>>52182930
For you. I personally still belive Martials should have the at-will effects and casters should get greater effects with more limits.

That's my opinion though, I enjoy 5e and if you don't why are you playing it? Reading it? or even in this thread?

>>52182955
Your point?

>>52182907
What, you can keep track of 50 discipline abilities always ready but not <25 spells prepared?

>>52182963
It's fine desu, it's basically spell points following Warlock's progression.

>>52182963
This doesn't take into account the +9 at 11th level, the +18 at 13th, the +33 at 15th, and the +44 at 17th level from psionic mastery over the listed psi point listing.

>>52182967
I play it because that's what my group voted to play. Playing a shitty edition with friends is still better than playing a good edition without.

I'll never get over how 5e fags are so sensitive that whenever faced with edition criticism (as if it was a personal attack against them), they imply you should leave the thread.

To me, /5eg/ is a place to discuss making 5e tolerable.

>>52182974
>Implying anyone plays above level 6
And 5 discipline cards are easier to track than 10+ spell and slots

>>52182974
Not him, but this is pretty easy.
If you're playing a Wizard, you've got to have a list of all the spells you can cast,
all the spells you know,
and of those, all the spells you currently have memorized.
Any time you change your memorized list, you're altering this sheet. Now, you could print out all your known spells and mark your memorizations, but that's a lot of erasing and re-marking.

"Remembering" my disciplines is as simple as printing each of them out on its own sheet of paper, or even two to a page. I'm dealing with 2-3 pages in a highly organized list, only some of which are even available to me, since I'm not going to always be capable of using 5 and 7pp powers.

So a Bugbear Mystic Soul Knife with the Growth discipline has a consistent 15 foot reach on their turn, which can go up to 20/25 when they activate it. Pretty intense reach out and touch ability.

>>52182930
>Which makes the martial's lack of at-will powers unhealthy.

Extra attack, feats, poison, and magic weapons. Martial types generally can combine way more stuff together than casters can on a cantrip.

Additionally there are quite a few ways martials can get cantrips, which is especially good to add onto their already strong physical attacks in some cases. The very fact that various assets like high elf, AT, and EK, plus various feats exist to GIVE you Cantrips suggests that, yeah, they deserve to be something you can add for further strength to a good combat character.

Another problem from the "Hercules is a martial!" crowd is that they want to be on par with magic use without the drawbacks, and adopt their trademark whiny victim complex if you call them out on any level of their bullshit.

>>52182949
Yep. The Bestial Form stuff should require no shield, and either no armor or leather/light armor. I'd also increase Tough Hide's cost to 4 points. The Force Armor should also have an increased cost to 4 as well.

>>52182997
I know the system has flaws, most of your arguments are a matter of personal taste though. You came in and said they should've made martials use power based abilities even though that received criticism in the last edition.

Honestly this entire argument's meaningless and not going anywhere. So I guess try to stick to casters if you don't like martials in this edition or homebrew something for yourself? Another option would be to offer to run games in a different system.

>>52182973
I was agreeing with you that the Mystic is different than the Wizard.

>>52182930
There are a few things that can be done for this. You can already replace an attack with a grapple or a shove (which also includes tripping), and if your DM allows fun variants you can disarm (why this is a variant I'll never know, it's in the DMG). You could also steal some ideas from pathfinder and allow for Dirty Tricks (save or be blinded/deafened/nauseated [represented by poisoned condition] for a round or two) and other maneuvers. These are about as viable as they've ever been since the ridiculous feat chains are no longer needed to actually be effective with them.

The problem is that casters can do all this too, and there's not really a great way to fix that. I'd suggest a somewhat artificial ruling of 'if you get cantrips, you don't add your proficiency bonus to combat maneuvers', and grant them to those classes on a per-archetype basis (for example, war clerics, valor bards, bladelocks, moon druids, or bladesinger wizards could all gain maneuver proficiency).

It's a band-aid at best but it could work.

>>52183045
All characters have equal access to feats. Feats aren't a martial-only feature. Not a class feature. This isn't 3.5.
Poison is either bought or crafted and it's only a useful feature for Assassins. It's not a class feature.
Magic weapons are either bought or looted. They're no class features.

Please point out class features that put martials on the same level as casters, not features that aren't a part of martial classes.

>>52182930
If you minmax for damage, sure.

My party has a Battlemaster fighter with Shield Master and the protection fighting style, and he has plenty of shit he can do every turn.

Playing a martial just to go GWM/PAM and slam doesn't provide options, just like a draconic (fire) sorcerer who picks all damage spells.

>>52183081
>Feats aren't a martial-only feature. Not a class feature.
Fighter and Rogue desu.

>>52183055
Mage armor provides +3 to your assumed armor class, no armor being 10+dex.

Inertial Armor adds +2 to your assumed armor class, studded leather being 12+dex.

>>52183038
This, also the information density inside the disciplines is a lot greater than in the spells, they literally crammed 100+ powers in 20 pages, compare it to the magic chapter from the PHP

>>52183075
Oh, ok.

>>52183063
>So I guess try to stick to casters if you don't like martials in this edition or homebrew something for yourself? Another option would be to offer to run games in a different system.

Why do you think I started by talking about refluffing mystics to be martials?

Thanks for the suggestion captain obvious. Here's a statement that you'll appreciate: you seem stupid.

>>52183045
See: >>52183078
You pointed out extra attack, but that doesn't solve the problem of variance. It just makes your attack better, in the same way that cantrips scale with level.

>>52183078
Yeah, this is good stuff, and when I am homebrewing, I try to add things like that to the martial classes. It really needs to be added to the class to be effective, so martial players have something unique.

>>52182871

If necromancy is at thing you like, then you could use that. But if you're an edgy hipster like me then instead;

>First half of the book is biography of a person's life, slowly becomes more and more clear it the person is the one who gave up his bones to make the book
>Second half of the book describes very old and somewhat brutal methods of binding young infants in specific ways to give them mystic abilites and/or drastically change their growth to manipulate how their bones grow.

>Binding back of skull to grant 1 per day psi point regardless of class and/or +2 to Intelligence, but very eccentric personality will always haunt this person
>Binding the chest makes a coughing, wheezing anemic who is somehow immune to disease and heated fumes and vapors from unnatural geysers and mushroom plants. Often found working in chemist labs.
>Binding hands makes the person unable to use any kind of intricate tools, and suffer -4 permanent negative to any attacks, but the bound hands can be used to heal others at the cost of the hand user's own life force energy.
>Binding the sides of the face and neck to create a baby like face even into adulthood. Mentally stunted, has disadvantage against fear and things that terrify children, but whose lies are always accepted at face.

>>52183043
>Soul Knife
>when you could be a Bugbear (+5) Nomad/Primeval Guardian/Battlemaster in Guardian Soul tree form (+5) with a reach weapon (+5) using Lunging Attack (+5) while concentrating on Giant Growth (+5) and Giant Forming yourself (+10) and for 40 foot reach and teleportation

>>52183160
I intentionally ignored anything beyond what is inherent to the mystic of a race.

I also ignored using a whip or polearm, because you might as well be effective, and a Soul Knife with reach is still an effective Soul Knife.

>>52183176
>>52183160
But what about PAM-Sentinel-TF?

>>52183187
Can't get a fighting style on a mystic without multiclassing.

>>52183130
>Why do you think I started by talking about refluffing mystics to be martials?
I tried to start by showing you ways martials still have some unique abilities, and my suggestion to run another system was a sincere one. I am honestly trying to present other options you could take because changing the system for fixing martials is no small task.

>>52183187
Tunnel Fighter / Sentinel comboing would limit him to a 30 foot exclusion zone (no Lunging or Bugbear reach), but that's still really good.

>>52183198
We've already taken Battlemaster for Lunging Attack.

>>52183198
Battlemaster's in there.

>>52183200
>martials still have some unique abilities
lol, what
Rage and Sneak Attack?
>i autoattack slightly more effectively

>>52183211
>>52183206
Only on the stupid meme build, and not the one thats actually relevant.

What the point of eldritch knight? There no theme to build around summoning weapon nor armor limiting me to only two with bond weapon and I have to get private lesson from the group wizard on some of her spell to set up her bigger combo.

I just want a mask knight, that change his gear middle combat for better advantage against enemy.

>>52183200
>martials still have some unique abilities
???
uhh. smite? oh no, warlocks do that better now.

>>52183081

>aren't a martial-only feature
Nor should they be. Rogues and fighters have more of them, however, and the point is that much more can be used to enhance attacks than individual spells, with the possible exception of Eldritch Bolt.

>only a useful feature for Assassins
Its a useful feature for anyone and its very quick and easy to get poison off a defeated monster.

>They're no class features
No one fuckin cares. At all.

>Please point out class features that put martials on the same level as casters

You are dedicated to being unsatisfied and pissy at all costs and seem to have missed the point entirely. Tragic.

The point of a caster is, generally, collecting a variety of effects to be as versatile as possible. Not all levels into wizard.
The point of a martial is, generally, stacking as much good stuff onto attacks (or whatever) as possible. Not all levels into a non EK fighter, and why paladins and rangers are often, quite legitimately referred to as martials.
The latter schtick is far more upgradeable and it is for that reason that warlocks are often considered to be more of a martial than a caster.
They are very different mindsets and character goals. You're not going to have martials that are as versatile as wizards in terms of utility, and that's a good thing. Likewise, magic is pretty awful for direct, sustained damage. They do very different things.
Even if you don't like it, 99% of the time, the easiest way to resolve a fight is through hit point damage (or, for non suicidally brave enemies, being able to see which way the wind is blowing).

>>52183219
>>52183243
Yes. Also expertise, a barbarian can perform physical tasks like a beast and a ranger can do a lot at level one with natural explorer. It's what they can do and a lot of people seem fine with that.

I have no problem with a power based system and Martials getting more powerful out of combat abilities but the only way that's likely to happen in 5e is with a 5.5e.

I see no reason to say it should've been rather then enjoy what I have.

>>52183283
>rolling slightly better is a unique ability
>when spellcasters can give themselves equivalent bonuses to rolls or circumvent needing to roll entirely

>>52183241
EK is a fighter with some magic, and it works fine.

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Is the Alchemist Artificer any good?

I wanna play as this guy in a one shot my friend is running.

>>52183241
To build tanky and spam Shield whenever someone swings at you.

>>52183297
"Works fine" is not synonymous with "is good".

>>52183316
EK IS good, and is one of the more popular archetypes. People not understanding what a class or archetype is for doesn't mean its bad.

EK is a defensive oriented fighter, with access to utility normally beyond its means.

>>52183241
>I just want a mask knight, that change his gear middle combat for better advantage against enemy.
No joke: Bladelocks do this. Armor of Shadows means you're never unarmored (albeit restricted to 13+dex armor), and your pact weapon means you're never unarmed. Downside is it takes 2 actions to gear up, but allowing you to summon your weapon as a bonus action is in no way overpowered (consider: drawing a weapon doesn't take any action at all).

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>>52183241
Hey, you might like what I've been working on and off on for the last half a month. Criticism welcome!

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>>52182832
Haven't pulled this out in a while. Thank you, false equivocation, for this opportunity.

>>52183333
"Can cast a scant few spells" is also not synonymous with "is a hybrid class" or "is a gish".
Paladins are a hybrid/gish. EK ain't.

>>52183295
>when spellcasters can give themselves equivalent bonuses to rolls or circumvent needing to roll entirely

In exchange for spellslots and spells known which are a meta currency.

There's spells that are unlikely to ever be prepared, have a spellslot used on or no caster has it available. Those are the areas martials shine, being able to do the simpler stuff out of combat all day long.

If I was given some examples on desired mechanics for a martial with the capabilities of a Wizard then maybe I would change my mind.

>>52182963
Psionic mastery gives you more psi points.

>>52183362
I never said the words hybrid or gish, stop projecting.
I said it was a fighter.

>>52183357
>Houyi
my nigga

>>52183241
Spam Shield and Absorb Elements really. I'm not a fan of the Archtype but some people like being a magical walking fortress.

>>52183371
You don't need to say it when everyone else does.

>>52183384
No one has, and complaining that a fighter is a fighter is moronic.

>>52183362
>>52183384

If EK isn't enough mage for your fighter/mage, then play a fucking warlock or paladin. They do exactly what you want.

>>52183357

But anon


Those are all demigods

>>52183401
An Eldritch Knight/Wizard is also a valid option.

>>52183371
>someone asks for a gish or a magic-using Fighter
>the response is always JUST PLAY ELDRITCH KNIGHT

The games I play we usually give everyone a feat at level 1. What are some good feats for mystics?

I know nomad naturally kind of favors a ranged character but I really like the idea of teleporting and hitting people with a staff. But I'm thinking PAM might actually not be good for a nomad considering one of its primary benefits is the bonus action attack but tons of nomad abilities take a reaction or bonus action to use.

Alternatively I suppose I could take the keen mind feat for flavor, or just take tough for those extra hit points.

>>52183408
Not even half.

We've got real autism hours in here.

>>52183416
EK is a magic using fighter. Key word, FIGHTER.
Plus, people who ask for a gish never actually specify what they want, and it tends to boil down to
>i want to be almost as good as a fighter at hitting, but also a full spell caster, and have heavy armor and martial weapons, and don't want super limited resources, and don't want the paladin because reasons

>>52183427
Ritual Caster or Magic Initiate for a Familiar. As far as I know mystic normally only makes one super attack so Advantage would be nice.

>>52182321
Eladrin also have not been mentioned.

>>52183440
>don't want the paladin because reasons
Probably because it's a Paladin that exists to spam Smite and not an arcane spellcasting fighter.

>>52183130
>but that doesn't solve the problem of variance.

Not a problem, fortunately.

>It just makes your attack better

That's how martials work, dude.
Caster = A bunch of effects that can be barely combined and that are carefully rationed. Concentration is of course the
Martial = A bunch of effects that can be layered together onto a few sorts of progressively better, repeatable action.

And what you forget is that the two aren't mutually exclusive at all.

You also have to face the fact that if you ever want martials that are as versatile as casters, you're going to have to have them be as limited as casters. Enjoy extreme rationing of powers, being shit at sustained damage, and of course, being shut down cold by Silence.

>>52183373
Every fucking time some asshole thinks that
>hurr durr, swordfighters exist in real life so heroic fantasy d&d should have them follow the same rules as real life but casters are fine because they don't exist at all
They seem to forget fuckers like Odysseus or Beowulf who were just men but probably, like, level 5 in ranger or barbarian.
Like >>52183408 this guy
Odysseus, Beowulf, all the Knights of the round table, Hou yi, Guan yu, and many others are all straight human but were deified in story because people think that no mere man can be that impressive.

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When was the last time you played in an actual group?

It's been a long drought for me.

>>52183484
Sunday

>>52183463
That's what it boils down to.
>YOU HAVE TO OBEY PHYSICS
>EXCEPT FOR ALL THESE MAGICAL THINGS THAT I CAN DO
>ALSO THOSE PHYSICAL THINGS YOU CAN DO HAVE TO BE WORSE THAN REAL PHYSICS BECAUSE I DISAGREE WITH THEIR BEING POSSIBLE
Cue all the twits assuming you die of heatstroke if you wear fullplate, walk slower than a turtle, and need the party to help you onto your fucking horse.

>>52183356
Not the one you replied to, but this looks good, anon.

>>52183484
Four weeks ago due to some shit, but we're getting back to it this weekend.

>>52183241
Combining polearm mastery, booming blade and gust of wind for starters.

>>52182611
>instead of breathing acid, you're throwing an acid bomb
Nothing says you have one. Where did you get one? Did you make it? Most martials don't strike me as the type.
>Instead of making someone really scared of you because of your mind power, you're just so damn bulky that by flexing your muscles, they piss themselves in terror.
Some martials do get this.

>>52183455
>i still won't say what i actually want, and i won't refluff, and i refuse to use the mechanic that is literally "i hit with magic on my sword"

>>52183512
Don't mistake me for someone asking for the gish, I'm just reporting what this general autistically parrots every time someone does.
>guy wants to do something other than hit with their sword every round
>"but you can hit with your sword while it's GREEN"

>>52182321
my setting's kobolds do

>>52183495
Paizo especially, where some untrained fuckwit doing some casual shit in his office chair seems to think he's going to be a good authority on what can count as different actions for HEROES in the middle of battle.
That especially pisses me off. Even in a swords and sorcery, low-magic setting the party is Heroes. They're not the random fuckers getting murdered by the snake cult and while they may not be Conan from the very start, they sure as shit get to his point by some time and surpass him eventually.

>>52183536
You have no idea what the word autistic means.

>>52183548
>martials are restricted to real physics
>except they can't run, jump, lift, or throw as well as actual people
Drives me up the fucking wall.

>>52183547
Can I please play in your setting? My DM made the Strength penalty -4 but "Balanced" it with Stealth Proficiency.

>>52183547
no one gives a shit about your setting

>>52183463

I'm pretty sure my jokingly tone was meant to have been clear, what with calling you a leddit tier insult such as "plebe"

Relax there.

And if you pull literal gods and demigods, while they don't detract from your point a lot, it does beg you to introspect a bit and realize that in fact your point really is separate from what it appears to be, or the issue that is implied when you present it, which is weather or not such a fantastic warrior is separate of .. fantasy, i.e. magic in its own way.

Fighter is a class made to appeal to the, what can be illustrated in WoW lingo,"fuck clothies" mentality.

You'd be hard pressed to play a Lancelot which wouldn't be interperted by most as at least a form of paladin.

Players who want characters viable for low magic campaigns with likely upturn their noses at the idea of a stick whacker which can compete at the same level with a guy playing Wish, and low magic campaigns are very much a part of D&D, for example

And while that certainly is not the point you were representing, it isnt that much different from it that you can just ignore it and pretend like every on who pokes fun at the anachronisity as some form of retard

>>52183583
Or, let's be honest here, swordfight as effectively as real world people.

>>52183484
Two days ago.
Playing with another group this sat.

>>52183547

in mine, they get +1 charisma

>>52183576
I'm pretty sure repetitive motion and repeating phrases is typical autistic behavior, Anon.

>>52183356

The Champion's Superior Critical Strikes feature references the Critical Strikes Maneuver which isn't in there.

The part of Remarkable Athlete that gives half prof bonus to untrained str/dex/con checks is still naff, since fighters have str and dex profs by default. Make it relevant or just dump that part of the feature entirely.

>>52183585
that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard

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>>52183603
>fighting a skellington
>ask my DM if I can hold my greatsword by the blade and beat the shit out of the enemy with the pommel
>NO, SLASHING DAMAGE ONLY
Fuck everything.

>>52183595
>Players who want characters viable for low magic campaigns with likely upturn their noses at the idea of a stick whacker which can compete at the same level with a guy playing Wish, and low magic campaigns are very much a part of D&D, for example

To turn the common anti-"martials being fun" argument against you, why the hell would you play a low magic campaign in an edition where players get access to the wish spell?

You seem to have set up two tiers of play here: Martials in low tier, and casters in high tier. I don't think that was intentional, but it is accurate.

>>52183645
Not as bad as the guy who only got to roll 2d6 for his stats.

>>52183663
and why are you playing with this faggot again

>>52183603
Nah, there are people very few thank the lord here who think that the carry capacity rules are the max amount rather than just what you can comfortably carry for long periods without a chance of failure.

>>52183356
>massive bonuses to an already strong class
>big fucking extra to-hit bonuses (or whatever) layered upon special abilities galore

I'm gonna just point out that the playtest paladin, for example, could one shot a 78-ish hp vampire at level 3 or possibly sooner, using the drastically higher across-the-board power level of the playtest as an anchor point isn't a good idea.

>>52183548
I love it. You can't swim in platemail because apparently it's too heavy and you'd sink, you have disadvantage (homebrewed in some cases) against lightning because you're a conductor (even though it would probably Faraday cage you), but you can also take slashing damage while wearing it. Huh? No, please explain to me how that cat managed to scratch my chest through solid metal with its dink-ass claws. Even if it carved open my armor like a tin can and could shred straight through the padding beneath, the claws wouldn't be long enough to actually hit skin. Come on.

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>>52183484
I haven't played in a game with anyone but myself since 1994. Turns out single player DnD is fun enough.

>>52183706
Do you DM or are you a player

>>52183595
Different anon so I wasn't following the conversation. I apologize for that but I want to make sure to stamp out this pathfinder bullshit wherever I find it as soon as I see it. I refuse to let this shit take hold here. Its the GM's job to let the martials make skill checks that the caster simply cannot do without use of magic.

>>52183662

Maybe? They're far better than casters in the things that they do well, but not as good as casters in the things that they both do normal, because normal is meant to not be a thing in the context where casters are important.

>>52183656
I'd give that to a player, I'd just adjust the damage to be a bit lower, probably.
Maybe some other kind of penalty, I dunno.

>>52183463
Out of curiosity, what is the point of citing people who use artifacts or divine ancestry to use phenomenal feats, and then sprinkling in a few characters like Beowulf who are 100% represented in the limits of normal martial PC capacity?

All this sort of garbage suggests is that why yes, nonmagical martial heroes in myth and D&D fit together nicely.

>>52183712
For the most part it's making character concepts, then being a DM for the character sheets I make up. Play them differently for their personalities, run them through the settings I come up with, or the official settings for some flavor.

>>52183463
I think this line of thinking just happens to a lot of people naturally, especially if they're someone with a magic bias. I don't think they intentionally shit on martials.

It's also possible that a lot of people are conditioned by lower levels of play. The classic game of D&D is largely ground in reality, because it's usually level 1-4. Even contemporary sources of inspiration like Lord of the Rings feature a company of 9 people, only two of whom are capable of superhuman feats, and they rarely ever do them.

You can see this in a lot of DMs' worldbuilding. NPCs are typically completely unaware of even low level magic and the landscape/politics show little to no sign of its existence. People will mourn the dead with not a single person mentioning the possibilities of resurrection readily available to even the common adventurer. Even game manuals mention how martials strive to become kings or warlords, while casters end up becoming demigods. It's completely unfair and ignores the dense amount of fiction which features human characters capable of superhuman feats. These sort of feats should be, in D&D, the sort of things you come to expect of martials.

But people don't really like it. They long for the days of a bunch of humans struggling to survive a mundane dungeon. Meanwhile, their wizard gladly accepts that reality-bending spell that makes them immortal, because the book tells them they have it. The book only indirectly tells you you're superhuman, so it's easy to ignore.

Just look at how crappy the Strength stat is and how often DMs tend to FURTHER nerf it by ignoring carrying or jumping rules.

>>52182810
Skills don't exist unless they can be fully replicated by a spell. Most casterfags are basically unimaginative morons who think they're deep geniuses.

>>52183356
Thanks, but the problem I have with is the limit bond weapon and magical switching and infusion of weapon.

Might just be my view of them as using as much weapon as they can. Also my heavy usage of projectiles such as javelin. if I could bond with more than 2 weapon, I could endlessly toss them even if I ran out of spell slots.

>>52183740
I'd probably do
>1d6+1 bludgeoning
>+2 to hit against things in heavy armor
>grapples target if in armor or there is other reasonable cause
>>52183746
>Beowulf who are 100% represented in the limits of normal martial PC capacity?
Really now? So your average barbarian/fighter can go beneath a lake for several days, without magical items, to kill a monster on his own?

>>52183719

I actually agree with you entirely here.

But alas, most dms are about as inteligent as the players, and even that is taken to the root of a power equal to the number of people at the table, so as play goes up in power, almost none those the required work of going up in mental challenge with it, presenting the added risk to casters (like for example, enemies always aiming for the wizard first) that should be the trade off for their growing influence

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>>52183719
>Its the GM's job to let the martials make skill checks that the caster simply cannot do without use of magic.
this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this

>>52183635
I'll make the critical strikes clearer.

For the remarkable athlete, I do like a skill bonus feature, as it would give the champion a lot more utility outside of combat. The problem is deciding on the right numbers to apply. Expertise seems like it would be too much.

>>52183693
I don't actually think the damage bonus is that massive, mathematically speaking. Battlemaster loses damage, since maneuvers don't deal damage anymore (Critical Strike is the one exception, and that's Champion exclusive). I guestimated the math a while ago, and I think it amounts to a slight DPS buff over the normal champion (Normal champion always has a crit bonus, while this champion gets a more powerful crit/attack bonus on one attack out of 4 in an attack action).

The class definitely needed a utility buff though, and the superiority dice in the playtest were way more fun than the implementation we have now.

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Can I use Animate Objects on rocks and dirt and shit to create pseudo golems? They'd retain all aspects of the spell

I'm not really the one to throw kitchen knives in the air and have them do their own thing.

>>52183595
>Players who want characters viable for low magic campaigns with likely upturn their noses at the idea of a stick whacker which can compete at the same level with a guy playing Wish

Open Hand Monks, who do indeed often whack people with sticks all day, have effects that compare very VERY favorably with 9th level casters. Empty Body and Quivering Palm are both definitely effects equaling or exceeding that which is reasonable for 9th level spells, and both can be used at once, refreshing after a short rest.

Unless by "Wish" you meant "near infinite simulacrum generating" and not anything that would ever show up in game.

>>52183790

cont.

Trying to help out in that ballance, when playing a caster, I actually look heavily to the martials for leadership during combat. I know that my time to shine works differently, so during theirs I keep the roleplay by putting it up to him or her to make decisions during the "six seconds of combat" regarding what where and how to run or battle.

>>52183656
Should just count as an improvised weapon.

>>52183789
I agree with the damage, but I'm more iffy on the to-hit bonus.

>>52183774
I took out the limits in that PDF. You can bond as many weapons (and later, suits of armor) as you want.

>>52183656
Just treat it as an improvised weapon.

>>52183831

maybe not simulacrum shenanigans, but guaranteed free imortality via clone + demiplane would probably be a thing

>>52183846
>>52183774
Oh, no I didn't. Sorry, it wasn't clear, but unlimited binding was my intent.

I'll edit it and reupload.

>>52183835
I'm not certain on that either but shit like mordhau and half-swording worked so well because it was used against other knights rather than the men-at-arms peasants so there is a bit of basis for more effect against armor. I don't know whether it should be worked in or not but its there for now. You can always drop it but I think the grappling the target on a successful hit, should you choose, should definitely stay. You don't jam your crossguard into some dude without lodging in unless you really yank that shit out.

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>>52183621
i'm actually re-doing all my races (except maybe humans) to have +1 to 3 stats, kobolds are +1 Dex/Int/Cha, my elves are +1 Str/Dex/Wis (they are more tall and statuesque compared to regular elves), the avian-esque race (that can't fly but can glide, so they are like 3e raptoran) I have is +1 Dex/Wis/Cha, halfings are Dex/Con/Wis. Thats a lot of dex races but those are just the ones I got pat down so far

>>52183826
>loses damage

You are best off adding to hit in any case.

>utility buff

Yes, lets fix the utility problem by giving them what is effectively +4.5 to hit at levels 1-4 (plus all the other effects of the maneuvers); and you only need to decide it AFTER the attack roll.

>were way more fun

5e was significantly more higher powered during the playtest, not just for fighters, dude.

>>52183846
Thanks, if my dm accept this.
>Imagine me in a weapon bond Goliath suit facing the dark overlord of evil.
>Imagine him pulling out his weapon of choice
And I calling his accursed gear on to my body and slaying him as he lay nake unarmed and armorless.

>>52183416
The response is also Valor Bard, Paladin, Bladelock, Palalock.

People regularly list every option, they all have drawbacks. If you want to play something that has no drawback, I suggest you stick to bethesda games.

>>52183867

Whoop de fuckin doo.

>>52183918
I 100% agree with the grappling
If you're gonna go full knight, you'd better be prepared to grapple a motherfucker once you've spiked his armor.

>>52183964
Bladesinger too

>>52183958
You would need to have previously bound his suit of armor to you, using the hour long ritual, which if you could pull off, would be awesome. I'm going to keep updating with fixes as I make them, so please post sometime about how it goes if you get to play with it.

>>52183927
The one issue with that is it shoehorns races into specific classes even harder than standard PHB.

Unless of course, you're into that for some reason.

>>52183749
did you find yourself developing antisocial and schizophrenic tendencies over the years?

>>52183749
Oh my god please be bait

Mastery of force or psychic assault? This is going to be the primary damage discipline for a a more support/battlefield controller.

>>52183941
>You are best off adding to hit in any case.

Yeah, this is intentional. I didn't want champion fighter to get significantly more complicated, so I gave them a few more options, but also a really powerful maneuver that by default they'll want to use most of the time.

>utility buff.
The utility buff is the remarkable athlete, and the access to two maneuvers.

>power level stuff
Somehow fighters and martials generally ended up significantly underwhelming compared to casters in the final product. This is an attempt to fix that, but also an attempt to bring the awesome playtest superiority dice back. If you feel that's a problem, then we fundamentally disagree, and there won't be any reconciliation there.

I'm also working on a sorcerer rework that removes sorcery points to replace it with a metamagic die that they can use every turn. These turn based dice were such a neat mechanic with tons of potential. I'll never understand why it was scrapped.

>>52183484
Almost a year as the DM and his GF started making the last one unbearable. I've got a new campaign start date of april 6th and as a sign of good faith I invited the old DM and his slag along. I'm worried that they're going to try and ruin my new thing and resurrect their old thing, but I think the other 4 people will like what I've created so I'm just gonna go for it.

>>52184034
Not really. I have friends, I go out semi-regularly, it's just no one enjoys DnD that I know and I can't find any groups. So I run like this. I've had one campaign go on for 15 years now, transferred from 3 to 4 to 5. It's really fun.

>>52184046
No bait here, friend.

>>52184034
>>52184046
Not him I occasionally make parties full of concepts that I want to run. I don't actually do anything with them but imagine their interaction and maybe once or twice make a combat encounter to test how good they are. At some point I'm just going to write a damn book but I have no clue how to actually write human interaction.

>>52184027
Frankly, I just let my players swap that +1 for any other stat they might enjoy

Want to be a Protector Aasimar that gets +1 to STR instead of WIS? Enjoy. Maybe your father is the Natty Gods, I don't care.

You want a Rock Gnome that gains benefit to Dex instead of Con? Fine, your years eating black powder instead of protein have turbo charged your cardiovascular system.

It's a pretend game for fuck's sake.

>>52184099
Why not just write a book?

>>52184027
i disagree, I think that giving them a wider stat bonus gives them more freedom into choosing a class. Giving elves str/dex/wis opens up a ton of classes to them, especially since they got Str as an option now.

>>52184105
the more I look at movies over the years the more I just see campaigns.I dunno if I've been red pilled or if I've got my rose shades on permanently.

Is it possible to reverse-engineer the Mighty Deeds of Arms mechanic for 5e? Would it benefit martials in this game in any way?

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>>52184152

>>52184078
>Yeah, this is intentional.

Ok, intentional, and disgustingly broken. I don't relate to the whole thing about people getting pet classes that they aggressively insist MUST become the best, flat out, with wildly disproportionate power levels. What's the appeal? Just wanting to be the best and making other types look stupid?

>Somehow fighters and martials generally ended up significantly underwhelming compared to casters in the final product.

How is "make fighters blatantly OP compared to all other martials and compared to gishes" the answer to "easily bored people who are upset because martials can't raise the dead and plane shift?"

>but also an attempt to bring the awesome playtest superiority dice back

Again, the power level was vastly higher *across the board*. That's what you can't seem to get. Just raining a gigantic pile of buffs down on the fighter is shit.

>>52184136
Books are books. Set stories that can only go one way. Why would I do that when I could play a game with chance instead? Things could change, I could win a battle or lose a battle, my group could become the winners of a campaign or lose, and be forced to regroup.

Books are static. Campaigns can be anything. Even if it's all run and played by one person.

Thinking of sending my players to Not!Africa and having them get wound up in a war between Tabaxi and Gnolls.

Basically planning to play them through the Loin King for a bit.

>>52184126

>It's a pretend game for fuck's sake.

Then y mad?
>>52184146

You're right now that I think about it, I was just knee-jerking to my initial take on the Triton, the whole Str Con Cha boost leaning heavily toward Pally.

>>52184179
you write a book by playing out a campaign, dingus. What has happened is all the pages behind you. Possibility exists in every page you've yet to read.

That's like saying you had no choices yesterday because they've already been made.

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>>52184206
Triton's make bomb diggity Stone Sorcerer's. Reflavored my Armour as a growth of shells out of my skin and teleporting as turning into water.

I know there's Sea Sorcerer's but I hate them.

>>52184170
What you don't seem to get is that the power level isn't being significantly increased, just the uptime and utility. Damage wise it's in line with PHB numbers, and uptime/utility were the major issues for the classes.

You're also starting to do that thing where you take my opinions on the fighter class as personal attacks, judging by your hyperbole and insults.

I don't think there's much more utility in responding to me, because you don't seem to have an argument I haven't already addressed.

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>>52184206
i also plan on giving all races a level 1 feat, so i gotta rework humans

>>52184250
human subraces bada bing

>>52184297
There's an entire boatload of them in Planeshift Kaladesh

>>52184235
Tritons in general make bomb ass sorcerers. I made 'elemental sorcerer' which is Pyromancer from PS:Kaladesh but using bonus action to switch between damage types for the benefits (definitely fire and cold, not sure about acid and necrotic) elements and the idea is just for a triton who can say
>Just imagine how hard it is to burn something underwater. Its so much easier up here,

>>52184250
Mm, humanity's plight. What makes them worth a shit compared to their half-elven cousins when stripped of what made them human to begin with?

>>52184250
REMOVE HUMANS

>>52184250
I just let humans take two feats because I want to encourage humans as much as possible in this world of snowflakes

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Updated for clarity and formatting.

>>52183635
I changed the remarkable athlete to be a pseudo reliable talent. I'm still not sure what to put in that spot, but I think this has some potential. The numbers can be tweaked.

>>52184331
Honestly I like they're natural Spellcasting. They're the kinda spells that will one day come really fucking handy but most likely aren't worth taking as a Sorcerer.

>>52184429
and off to bed as well, I'll check back in for any criticisms and consider them in the morning. Thank you for your help, anons of /5eg/

so im playing a gnome thief level 9.
I have 18 dex 16 int 14 con.
so far I have SS and Resilience as feats.
at 9th level should I take the ASI to +2 dex or another feat?
I was thinking I would take mobile, alert or charger (it seems like fun)

>>52184472
at 10th level*

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Rolled 2, 3, 16, 19, 10, 9 = 59 (6d20)

>>52181853
Itt we roll for characters, 1d20 down the line like true men. Fuck d6s

Rolling up a fire genasi immortal mystic

>>52184558
Shit nigger, thats the exact opposite of what i needed

At least i have a lot of hp

>>52184558
Well you're tough and smart.

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>Mastery of Force

>>52184558
Shit son, you a wheelchair with 4 inch skin.
or
MIND QUAD

Rolled 1, 18, 16, 20, 15, 16 = 86 (6d20)

>>52184558

>>52184679
Jesus Christ, I'm a demigod who can be knocked down by a stiff breeze.

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Rolled 13, 2, 2, 6, 11, 19 = 53 (6d20)

>>52184558
C'mon rng, gimme something good.

Rolled 6, 6, 15, 10, 9, 14 = 60 (6d20)

rolling

>>52184706
Half-Elf Sea Sorc it is.

>>52184705
A charismatic cripple. Fuck.

Rolled 12, 7, 6, 2, 10, 1 = 38 (6d20)

dice+6d20

dice in all fields, come on RNGesus!

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Rolled 10, 7, 15, 10, 6, 15 = 63 (6d20)

Let's roll.

>>52184740
wtf i hate RNGesus now!

>>52184740
Art mirrors reality

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has anyone run the dragon turtle encounter in PotA? how did it go? it feels really, really out of place considering how trivial most other things in the water temple are. I know it's not at full strength, I know it's possible to avoid it completely, but my players will DEFINITELY fight it to the last man

>>52184782
Let your players try and fail if they want. It's a game after all.

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Rolled 11, 5, 20, 2, 10, 19 = 67 (6d20)

This is a bad idea, but odds are they'll be better than my real life stats.

>>52184832
>Healthy, charismatic
>Stupid as fuck, clumsy
Are you rolling up a normie?

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Rolled 13, 1, 11, 3, 8, 3 = 39 (6d20)

>>52184679
And probably a healthy obsession with light, cause a single shadow will outright kill you.

>>52184880
But anon, shadows can only exist where there is light
:^)

>>52184901
No man when there is no light that's just the same thing as everything being covered in shadows.

I would sincerely not multiclass if there was a martial that actually used the bard spell list with a few tweaks and a 1-4 or 1-5 spell progression, so long as it had goodies like inspiration, countersong and song of rest. I don't give a shit about magical secrets, I can live with 1d8hp, and I don't give a shit about muh 9 levels of casting. I just want a roguish half-caster that focuses on inspiration rather than Paladin's smiting bullshit.

Could someone explain in detail why the Mystic Class is OP? What sets it apart from things like Wizard, or Lore Bard, or Moon Druid?

>>52184933
They get an ability called psychic crush that can instantly kill any enemy that doesn't have access to psionics.

Rolled 14, 11, 6, 12, 14, 9 = 66 (6d20)

>>52184956
8d8 Psychic damage will not instantly kill most people.

>>52184918
I've got a player rolling with a Lliira paladin which works a lot like that. They've got A Bardic inspiration/SoR-alike for a Channel Divinity, an appropriate spell list (based on Treachery Paladin initially). It's not quite what you're looking for, but it's kind of close. Balance seems fine.

>>52184933
Overall it isn't, but there are a few abilities and ability synergies which are too strong. It's a bit to easy to stack AC.

The class can do a lot of damage, but it turns out, dealing a lot of damage isn't that hard in 5e.

>What sets it apart from things like Wizard, or Lore Bard, or Moon Druid?
You mean balance wise or just flavor and mechanics?

>>52184956
>8d8 save for half
>Instant kill
uh huh

>>52184973
>>52184975
Doesn't do damage, just instantly kills people.

>>52184975
Balance wise mainly.
>>52184982
Anon I'm worried about you.

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>>52184982

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>>52184982

>>52183055
Mage Armor is a level 1 spell that costs half of your spell slots at level 1 and provides AC of 13+ Dex to classes with no armor training.

Inertial Armor is a 2 psi effect that costs half of your psi at level 1 and provides an AC of 14+ Dex to a class with light armor training.

4 point cost would imply that Inertial Armor is worth the same as a 3rd level spell because you couldn't cast it until level 5.

Bringing up force damage resistance would be half an argument, but is a pretty rare damage type outside of Magic Missiles, Eldritch Blast and other Mystics.

Also, the +2 AC on Thick Skin + a shield + Inertial Armor isn't much of a problem because the only people who can do it before 3rd level are Wu Jen and Immortals. Wu Jen get very little out of Bestial Form.

Immortals don't value shield proficiency and Inertial Armor because it negates their 10 + Con + Dex AC. You can do builds to get around that, like 1 Fighter/X Immortal Mystic but then you'd still be better off in heavy/medium armor with a shield and your self-only-longer-duration-concentration-free NotShield of Faith.

Is that much AC broken when a Cleric does it for one spell slot at level 1? Are you arguing Shield of Faith should be a level 3 spell?

>>52184995
I don't know what pussy version of psychic crush you guys are looking at.
Instant death, no save, only defense is other psionics.
What's that? Did you not get a lucky roll during character creation like 99% of players and therefore can't access psionics? Fuck you.

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>>52183827
>tfw my Bard used a swarm of gold coins

>>52185014
I literally just screenshotted the Mystic ruleset. Whatever you're looking at is wrong

>>52185014
stop reading the pathfinder SRD

>>52184975
>I've got a player rolling with a Lliira paladin which works a lot like that. They've got A Bardic inspiration/SoR-alike for a Channel Divinity, an appropriate spell list (based on Treachery Paladin initially). It's not quite what you're looking for, but it's kind of close. Balance seems fine.

That actually sounds like a great remix.

>>52185033
>he doesn't know about defense mode f (mind blank)
>>52185050
I don't even know what you're talking about.

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>>52184558
Obviously you need race/class before rolling.

Hey 5eg!

I'm getting the chance to play a mindflayer in an upcoming game, and I was wondering if any of you guys have a "mindflayer as race" home-brew sitting around.

If not, what do you think the mindflayer race should have? Int bonus and Tentacle natural attack is obvious. Maybe advantage on Intelligence skills while in the hive-mind?

>>52185074
You need to use defense mode g (thought shield) to avoid psychic crush you fucking mong.

>>52185084
He seems pretty buff for someone with 2 strength.

>>52185084
Its the best way to do it
Shit gave me 20 int and 18 con

>>52185084
Psychic Vin Diesel?

>>52184046
Did you not play with Legos or action figures as a kid?

>>52185014
Go back to /ad&deg/

>>52184994
The Mystic is basically a Spell Points Caster, with casting that is extremely variable in flavor, but often pretty much the same as a spell (Bestial Claws is basically Inflict Wounds but slashing damage).

Because of this they can use their more powerful "spells" more often, and have a weird power curve where they stop accessing more powerful moves at level 9, and gain the ability to do them more.

They also get spells in similarly flavored bunches rather than picking them individually. They don't get a lot of those disciplines, but each one is a decent sized bag of tricks.

The end result is basically a half caster who can use their spells as much as a full caster at varied level and gives up basically everything else to do this.

I think they're interesting, but I really want to see one in play before I can really tell.

With the right discipline selections they can fill practically any party role, but can't stretch themselves across more than one easily.

>>52185060
Thanks! It's working quite well so far.

>>52181953
He did it wrong anyway. He's supposed to be a warlock that takes 2 paladin levels, not the other way around. It won't be OP.

>>52182949
It's better than Mage armor but not all Wu Jen will take Force Discipline (they can get regular mage armor just fine) and they're also more limited in spell slots.

it's worth remembering that Mystics also scale worse than any full caster and that their max damage barring psychic strike cheese is on the low end.

>>52185013
Yeah, you're right on that. I suppose I was overvaluing it too much.

Rolled 16, 13, 11, 11, 18, 20 = 89 (6d20)

>>52184558

Rolled 8, 18, 6, 18, 17, 13 = 80 (6d20)

>>52184558

>>52185246

wow kill yourself

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What's the general consensus on the Fighter UA?

>>52185338
Arcane Archer isn't good. Battlemaster basically does their thing better.

Knight is kinda cool I guess. Haven't really looked that closely at them, but I like the idea of an area denying defensive fighter.

I can't remember any Samurai things besides Fighting Spirit, but FS is really good.

Sharpshooter is blandly functional.

I just realized something that irks me a bit. Not a single Mystic gains an extra attack (including the martially-focused Soul Knife), and there are no melee Talents. I mean it's not strictly speaking a necessity, but would it be really so bad to have something like this?

Psychic Strike (Talent)
As an action, make a melee attack. If you hit, you may choose to deal damage based on your Intelligence modifier, rather than your Strength or Dexterity. If you do, the attack deals psychic damage.
This talent's damage increases when you reach higher levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 psychic damage to the target. This damage increases by 1d8 at 11th level and 17th level.

I mean, If I play one I'll probably just pick up mind thrust and either mind slam or psychic hammer at later levels, but I'm gonna be playing an Avatar, and they seem like a lead from the front type.

>>52185014

>>RRREEEE
>>AD&D was awesome with an entire appendix dedicated to a needlessly complicated sub-system because somebody hanging out with Gygax thought Yuri Geller was cool
>>Dang kids and unbalanced Vidya D&D
>>REAL D&D has needlessly complicated sub-systems nonsense charts for punching with randomly assigned numbers Wildly OP demi-humans and only 3 useful weapons because thats what they used in LOTRs

It was stupid back when I played it back in the day alongside guys like you and its still stupid today

>>52185371
Nomadic Arrow gives you extra attack with a ranged weapon. For cool flavor purposes too, if it's a thrown weapon, it returns to your hand after you throw it.

>>52185338

>>AA is an awkward Battlemaster

>>Knight has a coherent theme and can actually do its just job but actually suffers if enemies DONT go after allies.Also random mounted abilities

>>Samurai is cool abilities which dont seem tied to the Samurai concept at all or even any sort of notable theme

>>Shapshooter is an Archer for a no Feat game

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Rolled 20, 2, 13, 16, 20, 4 = 75 (6d20)

>>52184558

>>52185387
That's actually pretty cool, but it still sucks that there's nothing like that for melee mystics. The lack of a melee talent feels like an oversight to me.

>>52185371
I do wish that Soulknife got some sort of bonus. The martial weapon proficiency don't seem that good when you're just gonna be using your soulknife anyway

>>52185375
What's the matter? Not good enough to not have happened to roll 4 int and therefore be exposed to unavoidable death?
;)

Rolled 5, 2, 1, 3, 4, 5, 3, 4, 3, 2, 6, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 4, 6, 4, 4, 6, 6, 4, 3 = 84 (24d6)

>>52185428
I personally enjoy rolling for stats. Hell, I can even be convinced to roll straight down, as long as it's 4d6 drop lowest.

Hmm...

>>52185428
This part they actually brought back this edition with intellect devourers.

>>52185444
>5, 2, 1, 3, 4, 5, 3, 4, 3, 2, 6, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 4, 6, 4, 4, 6, 6, 4, 3

Str 10
Dex 13
Con 11
Int 6
Wis 14
Cha 16

Definitely a Sorcerer. Probably a Xykon knockoff.

>>52185417
This is probably something that needs to be reported in the UA survey. I mean there are some disciplines that boost melee (bestial form and brute force, notably), but there's no option for an at-will like casters get. The complete lack of any melee talent, and the reasonably useless weapon proficiency on the soulknife, seem like real oversights.

Hell, just give me a nerfed Mind Thrust attached to a melee attack and I'll be happy. Melee attack, deals normal damage, target must make an Int save or take Xd8 additional psychic damage.

>>52185371
Mystics don't get Extra Attack because they get Divine Strike instead. It actually works BETTER for Soul Knife if they ever get to 14, because that one hit is 3d8+dex psychic vs 10 ac.

Rolled 1, 1, 2, 4, 6, 3, 5, 1, 5, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 1, 6, 1, 6, 4, 6, 6, 4, 3 = 95 (24d6)

Let's see how this goes.

>>52185493
I actually missed that. I suppose that's a good trade for the other toys.

>>52185503
7, 14, 14, 18, 16, 16

Jesus. i wanted to play a mystic anyway.

>>52185493
Yep. You're really only competing with the fighter there

>>52185493
And you can burn PP for a boost to damage and attack. Plus burn PP to add d10 on.

So basically you can only miss on a natural 1 at that point.

Why have you never played a standard human champion /5eg/?

Don't you want to play like Gygax intended?

>>52185535
And that's before racial bonuses, huh. That almost seems too good.

>>52185575
>Don't you want to play like Gygax intended?
His table had fucking playable vampires.

>>52185601
So did 4e.
How the fuck is vampire a class I mean seriously?

>>52185622
Was also a race and a feat, you could be a Vampire Vampire with a feat that let them Vampire.

Is Mind Thrust ever worth focusing on?

You pretty much want dex as your secondary regardless of archetype anyway, so why would you use it over a light crossbow?

I mean, you have niche situations, like high ac, low int targets, but as a general rule, the crossbow just seems better.

>>52185601
So does 5e.
Have you not read Plane Shift: Zendikar?

>>52185622
Technically so did 2e in one of the later 2e supplements.

>>52185633
And people wonder why no one liked 4e.

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So warlocks are pretty schweat. I've been playing one for a while and I've been one of the best characters in the party. While the meatshield distracts the monsters, I blast them to smithereens and then I'm almost on par with the wizard for utility while eclipsing him on damage and combat debuffs. Pact magic is tits

>>52185428

Niggah I played a Half-Orc with a 2 Int after rolling 3D6 straight down the line dont even front

>>52185557
how do you add to your attack roll?

>>52185819
>not 1 int
Get on my level.

>>52185875
Hone the Blades

Rolled 9, 7, 11, 2, 8, 6 = 43 (6d20)

>>52184558
Never rolled on here, let's see what I got.

I'm building a dungeon right now, and as I'm building it, I'm trying to take into account all the dungeon-breaking spells that characters get access to as they level up. I've seen way to many posts along the lines of "I built this awesome challenge, but I didn't realize the 9th-level party could fly." So, I've made a list of every spell I think poses a serious risk to obstacles. By "obstacle," I mean physical barriers to progression, such as pits, doors, and traps.

This list shouldn't be considered complete, since I'm sure I missed something. Feel free to make suggestions.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H-7MrLkMJv1E-VmFDMyWSpE6EPpM0AWCdHoF3GWXAz0/edit?usp=sharing

Been excited for teh msyrtic take one come out, in 4ed I played a psion and a battlemind. My DM knows this. Do you think he'll be angry if I ask to switch over to a mystic order of immortal? I will be playing the role of the parties meatshield just in a different way.

>>52186090
I sorted the list by spell level, so I can plan each section of the dungeon around the level range I expect the party to be at when they get there

>>52186099
>Been excited for the mystic since take one came out

Rolled 10, 18, 5, 1, 17, 11 = 62 (6d20)

>>52184558
Let's do this shit.