Warmachine/Hordes General /warmahordes/

So, the talk on the elvish gods in the last thread made me wonder.

What happens if an elf worships Morrow or Thamar? Do they still go to the Veld instead of Morrow/Thamar's domain after they die? Can they be an Ascendant? Can they get divine magic from them? Neither Morrow or Thamar seem like to the type to discriminate based on race.

Hell, what if, theoretically, there were humans that worshiped Scyrah? Would they as a community start experiencing the same afterlife problems as the elves?

I'm buying Venator Slingers and you can't stop me!

If it's Circle Christmas and Cryx Halloween, what extended holiday are we about to enter for Ret?

>>52156681
Easter?

>>52156691
Elf Easter has a nice ring to it.

>>52156681
Retribution Ramadan?

>>52157202
I think we have a winner.

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Roundears swerve

>>52156659
AFAIK nothing happens if a race worships a god of a different race that doesn't historically have something to do with it.
According to the IKRPG the prerequisite to be a priest of Menoth, Morrow or Thamar you must be human. I think if you choose not to worships your race's gods you just get dumped in the wilds of Urcaen to fend for yourself.

>>52156515
Not a Ret player, but I'm pretty happy for them.

Any of you guys doing CID testing? What do you think of how the Burtonkin play?

DIE CID SCUM

>>52158457
Interesting.

The Heretic is fucking strong.

The Arcana are cool, but some of them are kinda easy to play around. They often make the faction very infantry-focused, as the useful ones tend to trigger when a warrior model is hit and confer upon them the most benefits.

Their beasts are honestly kinda meh, which makes Arcane like The Child's and The King of Nothing's sort of Skornergetic.

>>52157578
>According to the IKRPG the prerequisite to be a priest of Menoth, Morrow or Thamar you must be human
You don't think this is just because those are literally human gods (two of whom were actual humans before ascending)?

I don't think there is some kind of cosmological prohibition on worshiping the god of another species, there's just no benefit to doing so, because the gods only care about creatures they created.

For the purpose of the RPG, it's a rule because, while an elf priest of menoth isn't strictly impossible, it is DEEP in special snowflake territory.

>>52158457
Their rules are pretty interesting. Still pretty sure I hate them from high-concept / model design standpoint, but the actual rules and execution are good.

They're so far outside the established paradigm that it is really hard to get a grip on whether they're actually competitive or not. They have some good tricks, but no one caster that's really going to blow things up. King of Nothing probably comes the closest, being a reclaimer-style control caster.

For tourney play, I think they may end up just being a novelty, but some casual players might find a breath of fresh air with them.

>>52160748
If they still have 10 weaponmasters for 12 points on release, they'll be competitive.

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>>52159207
>CID DIE
It's because you fed him the rotten fish.

>>52160764
>If they still have 10 weaponmasters for 12 points on release, they'll be competitive.
If that approach alone was enough to make a faction competitive, Cryx players would have nothing to complain about. The dreadrots skew the INTERNAL balance of the faction pretty hard, but by themselves they won't see you to top tables at a major event.

And before someone says "But... but.. muh banes aren't 12 points WAAHHH", I know that. Nor should they be.. bane thralls still hit far harder. The point is that "jam 50 or 60 hard hitting infantry down the opponent's throat" is Cryx's patented style, and even after being nerfed they are still good at it... and it's just not enough, not against top level competition.

Running a list with 60 dreadrots looks a heck of a lot like running a list with 60 mechanithralls. If your opponent doesn't have the volume of attacks to deal with it, you'll roll over them. If they do (or if they have a hard counter like scathers or mass covering fire), you're out of luck.

>>52160985
Just advance them behind 4 Burning Ashes and you're good to go.

heard skorne stuff was spoiled anyone know whats was let out?

>>52161157
Do you mean Chiron and Morghoul3?

Anyone got a good sheet for IKRPG?

>>52160985

Comparing stuff across factions is retarded, but even if you do, it's obvious as to why Dreadrots are just straight up better than either Banes or Mechthralls. They're much cheaper than banes and hit much harder than McThralls. Hell, in Bump in the Night they net you so many free points that they end up being as cheap as McThralls. This puts them in the sweet spot of "cheap and spammable" and "hit hard enough to damage heavies". You can't spam Banes because they're expensive and restricted by an FA, and McThralls can be spammed but they don't do shit all anyway.

This is all ignoring the extra utility Dreadrots bring:
>provide corpses to other models in the faction by either dying or killing things
>ignore Tough and RFP with their attacks

Grymkin also has a much easier time delivering them with shit like denial Arcana, King of Nothing cloud wall, Wanderers Starcrossed and Fog of War, and Dreamer's Artifice of Deviation.

tl;dr you don't know what the fuck you're talking about

>>52161157

Nothing fully spoiled outside the trade soliciation giving us Morghoul3's feat and specs on Chiron's gun.

>>52160769

It was before the internet! I didn't have a Guide! I didn't know! GOD DAMN YOU I DIDN'T KNOW!

So how well would Skarre2 work with nothing but Satyxis models? What jacks does she like? I'm trying to build a Skarre list and maybe one of the Goreshades just to see what all the bitching is about

>>52161418
What was his feat?

>>52161757
Satyxis are still one of the best units in the game, and the competitive Cryx lists really crutch on them

Anyone got a Cygnar fluff synopsis since Mk3 began? Like what the fuck all is happening besides Julian being king and Caine going rogue.

>>52161863
Cygnar invaded Llael.

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>>52161863

Choose, humans of /tg/.

Menoth
Morrow
Thamar
Fuck the gods, I make my own way
Toruk

>>52161352
Just print it out from the back of the core book.

>>52162175
Pledge allegiance to the spirit of the motherland and follow whatever direction her talons point at.

>>52162345
So Menoth or Morrow.

>>52161863
Julian shouted FUCK KHADOR at the top of his lungs, tore off his shirt, proposed to the last Llaelese princess, ordered a large-scale counter-offensive that has pushed Khador back past the Thornwood, and rallied troops to march on Llael and fuck up anyone not waving a Llaelese flag.

So yeah, he's pretty great.

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>>52162175
>no Devourer Wurm option

I bet Menites did this.

>>52162634
Oh right, I forgot those faggots technically count as humans too.

So yes, the Wurm is another option.

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How does this look as a first 75pt list?

I've been playing 25pt games to test out some of the units i've been picking up, i really love the assassins.

I also would love to use the doom reavers in a list, but i'm not sure how actually good they are

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>Elara still not released
>can't start precursor Ret

>>52162957
The good:
- This is a really good list for a night of chips and beer with some buddies.
- Everything (except for the doomreavers) in that list likes having Tactical Supremacy
- The Manhunter and the Doomreavers both GREATLY appreciate your caster's feat

The bad:
- Battle Mechanics are overpaid. You don't need a max a unit and you don't need the officer, especially if you only have two things they can repair.
- Winter Guard wants Rocketeers and Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich. Without, they will underperform
- Your shooting infantry units don't get a whole lot out of Kozlov. You certainly want a range option no doubt, but you should pick between the two. Running a third melee unit (or better, a Jack) to put Fury on and giving them +2 speed would be appreciated.
- Kodiaks like to operate in pairs. You usually either run 2+ or none at all.
- Kayazy Assassins are a fine unit, but they operate better with a caster who can make them blast immune. Not a total grip in the toilet, but a sup-par choice.
- You only have the Doom Reavers for reliable Armor Cracking. Both of your jacks are quite pillow fisted at POW 16 and you only have two of them.

Then there's some stuff that can use tuning (for example Manhunters are worse than kayazy Eliminators in terms of power level and Kozlov would like Sylys around for help with his MANY upkeep spells, rather than a Dog)

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>>52162957
>>52163186
Running out of words. If you want some simple fixes:

Option 1: Ditch the Rifle Corps for a Juggernaut and transform the Mechanics into a min-unit without the officer. For those 5 points, you can add a second Manhunter or Kayazy Eliminators.

Option 2: Replace the Widowmakers and Marksman with a second Kodiak and replace the Mechanic Officer, the Manhunter and the Dog with Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich and 3 Winter Guard Rocketeer attachments.

Option 3: Really easy, assuming you have the Khador Battlebox. Just play what you see in the picture.

>>52163088
Them's dick sucking lips right there.

is this game finally dead

>>52163445
We did it /tg/, it's over. We finally killed the game. It's time to go home to our families and rest.

>>52163486
Long live the new skub

>>52163520
Same as the old skub.

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>>52163486

I loved this game

Once.

Now to see it suffering and dying slowly; desperately. Its nearly too much.

I got into warmachine just as Mk2 launched and when I first moved into my college dorm, I cant believe its been so long.

Its like seeing your dog dying.

>>52160985
I think one of the issues with Dreadrots is they can come with a caster who cloudwalls very effectively and does weird shit when they die. That being said, their personal stats are pretty garbage even being backed up by a Battle engine defensively, so time will tell. A lot of the faction seems to be based around denial and rules-stacking because the baseline unit and warbeast stats are pretty underwhelming (I'm looking at you, Skin-And-Moans).

As a note on that, between an extensive focus on spamming marginally-stated but hard hitting infantry and casters with great spell lists Grymkin feels like what Mk3 Cryx wanted to be but didn't manage in my opinion.

>>52163186
>>52163404
Thanks for the advice man, this really helps.

I Wanted to take the Kodiak just to drop the clouds for defending melee advances. I figured one was enough, but i could definitely pick up a second, I can see how having two would be better than a single.

I really like the rifle corps, so i think i'll pick up a kovnik joe and some rocketeers.

I decided to try out the second option, hopefully it'll perform better than what i was trying to do.

>>52163742
>tfw one of the local Khador players has the surname Gligorovich

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>>52163742
The problem with the one 4" cloud is that it doesn't block all that much, considering the angles. Where as two clouds right next to each other, hide 8" worth of models. Not worthless by any means, just inefficient.

I personally am not a fan of Kodiaks for Kozlov in the first place. Since they bring native pathfinder and Kozlov is going to give his battlegroup Pathfinder anyway, I prefer to just going with beefy beatsticks. My rule for casters is usually: Do they give pathfinder easily? Yes: Juggernaut, No: Kodiak.

But that really is nothing but simple preference, because I don't like to "waste" rules text, if that makes any sense. For the same reason, I don't bring Clamjacks with Kozlov either, since they are already immune to knockdown anyway (but they are really happy about Pathfinder, so that's that)

Doom Reavers aren't the most competitive thing Khador can run at the moment, but thanks to Kozlov's Feat, you will certainly be able to make them work well enough.

>>52163758
That's pretty cool.

>>52163531
>I got into warmachine just as Mk2 launched and when I first moved into my college dorm, I cant believe its been so long.

>Get into Warmachine a year before MK3 drops
>Pick Cryx, because I like the idea of roboliches and cyberzombies and prefer melee over ranged combat
>Convince my club to pick it up as well
>Love the game to death, so much mechanical complexity compared to 40k
>News of MK3 arrives, can't be more hype
>Loads of pre-orders; starter kit for Agathia, card deck, rulebook, Wraith Engine, other stuff which looks like it'll be fun to play
>MK3 drops. Rules need day-1 erratas. Agathia looks like she's made out of playdough and is missing her head
>PP continually acts shifty when questioned about rules, takes 3 months before they send me a new head
>Issues which were "working as intended" get errata'ed
>Cryx turns out to be dogshit in MK3
>Shooting turns out to be godlike in MK3
>PP announces they're going digital-only, the MK3 cards I bought are now worthless, have to either buy their Warroom app or deal with shitty home printouts
>PP kills the Press Ganger program
>PP shuts down their forums to quell dissent

I wouldn't even care if the game died tomorrow at this point.

New Cryx player is having his first game tomorrow at my LGS.

>>52161761

We know for sure that it at least grants Acrobatics, Overtake, and Parry. It's unknown if that is it or if it is restricted to battlegroup only.

>>52161478
>It was before the internet! I didn't have a Guide! I didn't know! GOD DAMN YOU I DIDN'T KNOW!
Yeah. I didn't figure out I could save him until the 2nd time I played through it on the PS. I got the ninja guy killed too.

>>52162395
Pretty sure he means the Old Witch.

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>>52164372
>>Get into Warmachine three months before MK3 drops
>Pick Ret because I'm an incorrigible weeaboo at heart
>get shit on by Cygnar, Mk3 journeyman league is nearly stillborn, but paint my elfs regularly regardless
>mfw all the spoilers dropped last week

I don't care if the game "dies" either, some of those renders are fucking amazing and can warm my shelf any day.

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Is this disgusting? Or does it need more rockets?

>>52165263
You may want to switch Riflemen out for the cheaper Infantry.

Who do we never see Satyxis Gunslingers in lists?

>>52165527
because we never see cryx

>>52164959
Basically how I feel about Circle. I love my puppers.

>>52161757
Try something like this

http://conflictchamber.com/#b41b0Ie_193a3bge1N1P1N1P7k9u2x

Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points

(Skarre 2) Skarre, Queen of the Broken Coast [+26]
- Barathrum [15]
- Deathripper [6]
- Erebus [16]
- Scavenger [7]
Satyxis Gunslingers [7]
Satyxis Raiders (max) [16]
- Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3]
Satyxis Raiders (max) [16]
- Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3]
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist [4]
Ragman [4]
Satyxis Raider Captain [4]

Drop into jack spam and feed back them to death. Pair with something that plays into dudespam and hordes like Gaspy3 or a generalist coven.

>>52162345
This.
Babushka is only answer.
>Motherland is of in trouble
Menoth:cygnar is of strong get fugged khador
Morrow:Loldon't care
Thamar:Loldon't care
Toruk: I is reason for trouble
Babushka: I SUMMON MEMES FROM HYPERHELL TO MAKE KEBAB OF ENEMY OF MOTHERLAND

>>52160985
>If that approach alone was enough to make a faction competitive, Cryx players would have nothing to complain about.
But Cryx doesn't have 10 weapon masters for 12p. And they need a UA for tough.

>>52165928
Thanks Boss man. Is there anyway to make he other caster in the pair Goreshade?

>>52168048
Let me remind you that cryx was undisputed master of competitive for 2/3rds of the games lifetime. People just got used to playing against undead cryxian hobos that everybody tailored their strategies and lists in order to deal with cryx. Such gems like people laughing at the ending of vengeance where striker2 assassinated Terminus, something near impossible to do against a competent cryx player back in MK2. Or how whiners used to be quoted:
>Want to win? Buy cryx.

Spare me your tears soulless undead abomination and taste my glorious elven dicksword.

>>52169063
Only baddies complained about Cryx though, Cryx had very few tournament wins. Not to mention the good Cryx infantry unit was Satyxis Raiders, not Bane Thralls.

Can someone rank Ret jacks, please?

>>52169383
>Cryx had very few tournament wins
If by few you mean the majority, yeah.

>>52164372
>Cryx turns out to be dogshit in MK3

Why are Cryx players such children?

Cryx can still easily construct high tier lists. You are in nowhere near the level of shit that guys like Minions, Ret, or even Khador were in in MKIII.

>>52170136
MKII, sorry.

>>52169424
1. Imperatus
2. Hyperion
3. Discordia
4-x Irrelevant

>>52170156
>I don't play Ret

The Banshee, the Phoenix and the Chimera are not irrelevant.

Really through Ret is one of those factions where your warjacks really do depend on what 'caster you're running.

>>52170240
I was memeing you autist. Almost all of Ret's jack have a place somewhere.

>>52170306
>Using the word "meme" in any context whatsoever in an unironic fashion
Kill yourself my man.

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What is the mk3 Battlebox meta? Which is the one to rule them all?

Khador seems to be top dog, but it has a 10/90 matchup against the Circle Box.

Trolls have by far the best warnoun out of all the boxes, but the beast selection is awful.

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>>52170136

>can construct high tier lists

if by easily you mean "choose one of two good casters left in the faction" then yes, it is easy. For those of us who don't want to play witch coven, we have to deal with having a stable of pretty mediocre casters. If our infantry (and jacks) didn't depend on our casters so much, it'd be neat.

I don't want to go back to MK 2 power level. I just want more interesting options. I'm not super into Satyxis, and that's the only infantry you can play in this faction, because they're reasonably priced and stand up on their own without too much support. I want the undead units to be viable.

It also sucks to have to fight a gunline that can deal with stealth and clouds (all of them where I play). Having a faction that does not play well into shooting when the meta is such that shooting is top-tier is pretty awful. This is why Witch Coven is so powerful right now, they are an anti-gunline caster.

If you look at tournaments where you can see the lists, Cryx players who placed have pretty similar cookie-cutter lists where the same few casters/models show up. Outside of that, the faction's not great. I would agree though- better than MKII minions. Though I'd disagree with MK II Khador, especially towards the end of MK II.

>>52170306
>Daemon
Check mate atheists.

>>52170632
mk2 Khador had one playable Caster and two useful units (and not even that after DEF skew became irrelevant).

Eat shit Cryx. Welcome to the bottom for once and carry your one-trick pony status for the next years.

>>52170632
>if by easily you mean "choose one of two good casters left in the faction" then yes
Are you talking about every Hordes faction here? Even Skorne with their super duper amazing errata only really run Rasheth/Makeda1 in tournaments these days.

>>52170666
>666
>likes red
>in the thrall of spite and wrath

Holy shit it's the Devil.

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>>52170666
Even satan hates Cryx

>>52170666

Wouldn't you rather be in a place of balance where nobody has to be at the bottom? I don't like seeing any faction having balance issues. I always thought Butcher 3 was the hero Khador needed, and Ruin was (and is) pretty damn awesome.

I saw Khador at MK 2 tournaments a LOT where I played, and they did well, though I would say they did have an over-reliance on mercenaries (a lot like Cygnar).

I would jump ship and play my Cephalyx (or any other faction that's more interesting) full-time, but Warmachine has all but dried up where I play. Mk 3 seems to have been one heck of a turd.

>>52170632
>If you look at tournaments where you can see the lists, Cryx players who placed have pretty similar cookie-cutter lists where the same few casters/models show

To be honest, this is how all armies look at the competitive level.

For example, Ret. In the new edition they have plenty of options, right? But when you face a Ret player in a tournament, there's a 90% chance you'll be facing off against Ossyan or Issyria, or maybe Elara if they're one of a the few that have her. And they'll be running Sentinels or Invictors, probably both, because why the fuck not? They'll have three Arcanists and Sylys, and a MHA or two. Imperatus will be there.

>>52170685
>Are you talking about every Hordes faction here? Even Skorne with their super duper amazing errata only really run Rasheth/Makeda1 in tournaments these days.
It's amazing that people still believe that.

>>52170779
>Wouldn't you rather be in a place of balance where nobody has to be at the bottom?

Not the same guy, but sure.

>Mk 3 seems to have been one heck of a turd.

I don't know why people think this. I mean, there are still balance issues, but none of them are as severe as they were in MKII.

>>52170464
Yeah, you've pretty much got it. Khador is one of the best while Trolls is one of the worst. 3 light beasts just doesn't cut it against the other battle boxes.

I used to play right after Mk.II dropped. How is the Protectorate of Menoth these days?

>>52170833
Pretty damn strong. Pick any caster and wreck faces. Only exemplars are mostly bad. Oh and Skyhammers are still terrible.

>>52170808
>Guys I know Zaal1 with triple Karax and Sentries didn't get touched by the errata when we weren't considered close to competitive, but really, I swear it's a good list now!

>>52170819

I'll admit- as a Cryx player, I have more reason to be salty about MK 3 than most. I do think the factions are closer in power overall. MK 2 top tier factions vs MK 2 minions wasn't even a game.

But like I said, ever since MK 3 dropped and people had time to read the rules, a lot of players have dropped their stuff and moved on.

Not just Cryx players, though I'm one of the only Cryx players still left.

I think MK 3 failed to deliver on a few promises that people thought were essential. It is kind of insulting that they insist it was playtested for as long as it was.


>>52170796

I know that tournament level play can get a bit same-y, but I think specifically with Cryx it's worse now than ever before. I saw a wide array of caster choices and model choices in MK 2 because everything was good.

I do think it's funny though that PP mentioned wanting to reduce the number of auto-include models in factions (and used it as a justification for nerfing Skorne beast handlers), and ended up creating more (or at least keeping the number stable).

>>52170887
You don't actually play Skorne, do you?

>>52170906
>I do think it's funny though that PP mentioned wanting to reduce the number of auto-include models in factions (and used it as a justification for nerfing Skorne beast handlers), and ended up creating more (or at least keeping the number stable).

What's annoying is this only requires very small fixes.

For example, Banes. They don't need Weaponmaster back. They actually function fine as killers of small to large based infantry, rather than the tactical nukes they were in MKII. They just need to a cheaper, FFS. Just a little cheaper.

For the aforementioned problem of Sentinels overshadowing stuff in Ret? Well, they just need to give MHI a bit more punch and a more prominent role. Give them a mini-feat that extends their threat or allows them to work around things that Sents can't. Give them a distinct place.

>>52170820
Which is kind of a shame, because Ragnor is super cool.

>>52170978

I feel like Banes are without a place right now. I think that place is support- second line infantry that take out heavies after your first jamming wave hits. They are expensive infantry that hit really hard and have super pathfinder , but have mediocre defensive stats and die to pow 10 shooting, with no way to change that. Their UA gives tough and a mini feat that encourages going after infantry. They could certainly do with a reduction in price. Especially compared to the spookytown pumpkin heads, 12 points for weaponmaster tough infantry vs 23 points. I don't think banes would be fair at 12 points, but I think 17 for the base unit is too much considering what they do now (and how they lost stealth).

I would bet good money that instead of changing other things, PP would nerf sentinels. They did it with Trolls and the Warders.

I think small fixes are easier with a unit that's bad vs a unit that's too good. Nobody likes nerfs, but buffing other things to being them up to the power level of a powerful thing is a dangerous precedent.

If they could nerf/sidegrade sentinels in a way that they retained their use, but did it differently (and still well) it could also be a thing.

>>52170854
Man, I always ran Kreoss2 and Exemplars. Glad the faction is doing well overall, though. I love me some religious zealotry in my make believe army men factions.

>>52171116
I dunno, the problem with Sentinels isn't that they're straight up overpowered, but that Ret's other offensive melee infantry don't do anything in particular.

Halberdiers are still taken for their defensive stats and jamming capability. They do something very, very different from Sents, so they see use. But MHI are sort of blah in that they don't really have an area of expertise - they're essentially a vanilla melee unit with Stealth. Ellowuyr Swordsmen are theoretically good at clearing single wound infantry, but the current meta is against them, what with all the blasts and tough shit.

>>52170854
>Exemplars are bad meme
KE and Vengers definitely see use. If you mean Basions & Cinerators, sure, but there's not really much heavy infantry going around. Even MoW, which kept 8 wounds are more for friendly than serious games.
Errants aren't bad, it's just that Idrians do everything they do, but better.

>>52171207
You're probably better off with Vindictus than Kreoss2 now, but Knights Exemplar are still pretty dope

>>52171244
>KE and Vengers definitely see use. If you mean Basions & Cinerators, sure, but there's not really much heavy infantry going around. Even MoW, which kept 8 wounds are more for friendly than serious games.
>Errants aren't bad, it's just that Idrians do everything they do, but better.
Yeah that. Though I still need to be convinced of the quality of Errants. They just lost so much and their rules don't really make sense anymore.

>>52171228
Melee infantry are a lot more narrow in use now. It's often Jamming unit or Heavy Hitting unit. That does leave MHI and the swordsmen in an awkward spot. Maybe as the meta changes they'll see more use.

>>52171267
How do their rules not make sense? I see people shit on errants all the time but I play a guy who runs the full errant boat with sevy1 and I fucking hate those fucks

Can someone please link me the Steamroller 2017 scenario that people playtested with?

>>52171864
It's called Saturn. There's a round zone dead center and two rectangular zones on the center line with their short edges touching the circle. Also there's a 10" kill box.

Circle can be held by warriors for 1p, rectangles by jacks/beasts/engines/monstrosities/etc. for 1p- Casters can score 1p on any of them (even multiples).

>>52171320
Well, the Swordsmen appear to be getting a UA at release, so we'll see what that adds.

MHI need a UA that makes them a legit assassination threat, since that's what they're supposed to be.

>>52171926
Can you score from having a unit and a caster in the same zone for 2 points?

>>52172346
That's not clear at this point but I'd think not.

>>52168418
I'd consider something like either Horseshade in ghostfleet if you have the models, something like this:
http://conflictchamber.com/#b41b_-0gdT1s1s192b203g203g203g2D2t2t2k

Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] The Ghost Fleet

(Goreshade 3) Goreshade, Lord of Ruin [+27]
- Leviathan [16]
- Leviathan [16]
- Deathripper [6]
Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (max) [17]
Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9]
- Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [6]
Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9]
- Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [6]
Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9]
- Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [6]
Captain Rengrave [0]
Pistol Wraith [0]
Pistol Wraith [0]
Machine Wraith [2]

Or a Shade 1 jack brick something like this perhaps:
http://conflictchamber.com/#b41b0Kd-1u1t0te_2EbF1Q1T

Cryx Army - 74 / 75 points

(Goreshade 1) Goreshade the Bastard [+27]
- Deathwalker
- Inflictor [13]
- Seether [13]
- Reaper [13]
- The Withershadow Combine [9]
- Barathrum [15]
Darragh Wrathe [9]
Wrong Eye [17]
- Snapjaw
Satyxis Blood Witches (min) [8]
- Satyxis Blood Hag [4]

Composition is pretty flexible just remembering that Breathstealer + Mortal Fer is effectively +4 Armour and Hordes tends to be Mat 6 so love dealing with Starcrossed. Cheap-ish heavies to taste and witches for attack volume and utility.

>>52172092
I feel like MHSF benefit much more from Eiryss 3 than MHI. A UA that's exclusively for them would be hella awesome.

Swordsmen would be cool to see a UA that adds some flexibility. As a Cryx player, I would LOVE to have swordsmen. High defense vs shooting that's not Satyxis raiders. I like the stat block, but I'm not attached to satyxis themselves. I'm in it for the undead. Plus any model with chain-whips is infuriating to build.

>>52170887

It is a good list. Right before the forums got nuked somebody was making progress with that sort of thing, not a single Ancestral Guardian taken.

>>52174024

>you know, one thing I didn't see coming from Skorne's time in the wilderness (I predicted that they'd turn into a tiny toxic cess pit) is that the Skorne online meta got crunchy as *fuck*.

>>52162175
Menoth. Someone's gotta kill that dang wurm already.

>>52172577
Funny, I got into Cryx purely for the Satyxis. I much prefer the pirate aspect if Cryx to the undead thing.

>>52162175
Thamar of course. Menoth doesn't care about your self-realisation and Morrow isn't pragmatic enough to understand that if mankind's potential is to be reached, Menoth and his followers need to be purged from Caen.

Toruk isn't even a god and undeath is icky. Being a dickless skelly for all eternity is unacceptable, especially with cockteasers like Skarre and Denny around.

>>52169703
You might want to check the tournament wins especially towards the end of MK2, don't be too disappointed though when you realize that Cryx didn't win as much as butthurt shitty players make it to be.

Going against anti-Cryx/Infantry lists at tournament level was fucking brutal, those victories were not as free for Cryx as many players wan't to think. MK2 Cryx strong? Yes. MK2 Cryx autowin? No.

>>52174607
It should really tell you something when everyone and their mum is forced to tailor at least one list to Cryx specifically, and Cryx still does pretty well.

I mean, sure, people built lists specifically to counter Cryx. That doesn't mean Cryx wasn't horrifically overpowered. Playing against Cryx as one of the lower tier factions in MKII wasn't even a real game.

>>52160985
honestly, I'm pretty ok with the Grymkin having slightly better than average costed models since those models are probably all they will ever get.

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>>52174176

>>52174771
Yeah, this.

Also, their beasts fucking suuuuuuck.

Their hard hitting stuff has the same weakness as Banes anyway. G U N L I N E.

Only the Dreamer and the Heretic are really good at deterring this.

>>52162395
Pretty sure neither Menoth nor Morrow is Zevanna Agha, praise be her unhallowed name.

>>52163531
>>52164372
This post is not to refute what you guys are saying but, like... the countless teeming masses still play GW shit. PP's worst shit fit is a regular Tuesday afternoon for GW.

Speaking of Weapon Master (and Dread Rots), does anyone else hate how abstracted it's become?

Like, it's supposed to represent a skilled fighter getting the most out of their weapon, but at this point it mostly appears on units that just have big swords. Whereas the units that are thematically highly skilled weaponmasters don't have it because it, ironically, wouldn't suit their crunch role.

One of the most ridiculous examples is stuff like Dawnguard Sentinels having Weapon Master, whereas Ellowuyr Swordsmen, whose entire fluff is that they are unmatched weaponmaster sword autists who devote their entire lives to martial mastery, don't.

>>52174698
Minions v. Cryx BATTLE REPORT:
Minions win the roll, elect to go first.
MINIONS TURN 1: player picks up all his models and goes to have lunch.
CRYX VICTORY.

Where are the people abandoning warmachine going? A lot of Warmachine players left GW for PP and now PP are out GWing GW they won't stick around much longer will they?

>>52175065
>Minions player has 3 Sacral Vaults

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>>52175070
>PP are out GWing GW

>>52175070
>now PP are out GWing GW
Okay let's not go crazy now

>>52175070
I'm not sure that's really happening. In my state we've lost very few players, gained a ton, and are still growing.

I guess you could go play Malifaux, Infinity, or Guild Ball? Those are all cool games

>>52175070
I'm building a 30k army, playing Malifaux, guildball, X wing for the most part.

>>52175921
>I play every game except Warmachine now
You've put too much bait on the hook, Anon. The fish can't bite down over it.

>>52175432
GW are reversing course. PP can't go a week without another bad decision. Are the only people left those too loyal to PP to leave?

>>52176429
>Everything I don't like is bait

>>52176726
>GW are reversing course.
So? I've yet to see them write a single good rule.

>>52176429

I'm not >>52175921 but something to add is that I've seen at my store something similar. People are dropping Warmachine/Hordes in favor of a wider variety of games- Malifaux, Infinity, Guild Ball, Bolt Action, and even 30k or Age of Sigmar. The communities that existed for these games are absorbing Warmachine players.

Where I play, MK 3 has definitely not been a smooth transition at all.

So what are the big problems with MK3 for someone who is new?

>>52176726
If PP does go as rotten as GW their company will fail, because they can't bank on the same amount of bs nostalgia.

>>52177197
There actually aren't any outside of a tiny number of casters who promote spam that you likely won't know how to play around. For some reason the internet is riddled with nay-sayers who insist the game is shit because of what happens at the one worthwhile tournament that happens every 2 months or so. For all intents and purposes, the game is balanced and has no real issues.

>>52176726
>GW are reversing course.

Sort of. They're going back to better business practices and making things fans want.

Their games are still horrendously bad. AoS is a joke, both fluff and crunch, and 40K is so tremendously unbalanced it would take years of releases to unfuck things.

>>52177197
Promised a more refined rule set and the opposite was true
Faction balance is a mess. Most factions have 1/2 units and all other units are worthless.
Most competitive factions are being held up by 1-2 broken casters and everything else is borderline unplayable.
The release schedule is a mess, a year in they have completely changed their release schedule.

>>52177249
3rd edition just deleted everything and started over rules wise. They could do it again and fix it.

>>52177197
For a beginner? Well there are some bad choices in every faction that you should avoid. Aside from that you'll be fine.

Older players are bummed out by PP abandoning some of the things for which they were initially liked and also by PP's terrible communication skills.

>>52177304
>>Faction balance is a mess. Most factions have 1/2 units and all other units are worthless
this was true of mk2 even more so.

>>52177304
>Most factions have 1/2 units and all other units are worthless.
I dunno. My faction has like 2 bad units and 1 bad beast.

>>52177411
You're likely a Ret player. Ret infantry is the best in the game and has clearly defined positions that they work in. Ret is pretty much exactly where every other faction should be but aren't.

If every faction had Ret's balance it would be the best game on the market hands down. As it is? It's a complete mess.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Hordes minis were never made in metal and some guy sold me his recasts, am I right?

>>52177436
>1 bad beast
>Ret player

Lel.

>>52177436
Well Ret doesn't have beasts now does it? I mean Skorne actually and we pretty much have Ret's balance. Not exactly, but we're close. Only bummer is that we won't get our theme forces before the end of the year, so we'll be playing ~12 points down.

>>52177474
Probably wrong, what have you got there.

>>52177474
All models were metal until recently.

>>52177514
You mean a faction that was so utterly broken at release they had to have their own major errata?

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>>52175070
>now PP are out GWing GW
>Age of Sigmar
>Fall of Cadia
>Age of Gulliman
>the state of orcs and nids since 4+ years ago

>>52177304
>Most factions have 1/2 units and all other units are worthless.

This is just a blatant lie, holy shit.

>Most competitive factions are being held up by 1-2 broken casters and everything else is borderline unplayable.

I play four factions. All of them have at least three highly competitive warcasters, and more viable ones.

>>52177304
>>52177309
>>52177233
How are Circle?

>>52177547
Yeah. It wasn't pretty. But no use lamenting that now. We're fixed and that's all that matters. Now if I could just get my beast theme so I can stop having to pay for Willbreakers that would be nice.

>>52177573
>Cygnar
Storm lancers
>Cryx
Satyxis
>Khador
Man O war and Winter guard
>Circle
Mannekins

How dare I point out the truth. That would make me feel bad that I'm a fanboy of a failing game system.

>>52177628
Proped up entirely on Mannekins and 2 utterly broken casters. One just got nerfed but she has a replacement coming out soon.

>>52177628
In a weird place. I'd say they have about 10-15 good builds, especially now that their Wold theme hit. Their internal balance is however not all that good.

>>52177638
Can you just fucking die already.

>>52177628
Beastly.

They have a fair number of good warlocks and most of their stuff is useful.

>>52177638
>How dare I point out the truth.
Because aside from Cygnar you're wrong? Well, not 100% wrong, but exaggerating a LOT.

>>52175070
I started miniatures with PP, but I'm trying to get rid of all my shit. I'm certainly not going to GW, though. Fantasy and LotR were their decent gaming systems and they kille dthem both. AoS and 40k are fucking jokes and the models look like shit.

I've started playing MtG again and have also been dusting off my old Infinity models. I have basically no interest in playing WM/H anymore. It has been like one, long, slow, agonizing trainwreck since Mark III dropped. A shame, too, I have a lot of nostalgia wrapped up in WM/H as I've been playing it for so many years and it got me into this hobby, but it's clear it's time to leave. PP are a bunch of shitters.

>>52177638
Storm Lances are fine. The Journeyman Warcaster, however, needs to be looked at.

>>52177638
You are confusing "worthless" with "not the very best" you Asperger case.

Every single faction you just listed besides Cryx has more viable models than in mk2.

>>52177638
>Cygnar
>Storm lancers

Storm Lancers are great. If you think nothing else has a place, depending on 'caster, you are an exceptionally bad player.

>Cryx
>Satyxis

Correct. The two Satyxis units are by far their best units. This ain't so bad for me as I literally play Cryx for the pirate stuff, but yes, a lot of their infantry needs re-pricing.

>Khador
>Man O war and Winter guard

Holy shit you fucking moron, dear lord, do you really believe this? Widowmakers are fucking great. All existing types of Winter Guard do different things and are good. Kayazy are excellent.

>Circle
>Mannekins

Ye Christ, you can't be this stupid. Almost every single Circle unit has a use. I say this as a Circle player. by the way.

>>52177651
>>52177674
>>52177756
>Making excuses while admitting that there are units so far above the curve there is no reason to play the "balanced" models over them

>>52177675
Where you going goy?

>>52177756
He doesn't actually play. It's pretty easy to tell.

>>52177819
>implying implications
A blank post would have had more content.

>>52177819
>Making excuses while admitting that there are units so far above the curve there is no reason to play the "balanced" models over them

And what is the difference to mk2? Cryx was blatantly overpowered, Cygnar never played a single infantry unit from their own faction and Khador literally couldn't run anything that wasn't Deathstar or Kayazy.

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>>52177819
>thinking there's no reason to play Widowmakers or Kayazy
>thinking there's no reason to play Skinwalkers, Reeves, or Tharn of any kind

Literally retarded.

Mannekin CAN'T do an army's work on their own, for one thing. I don't think you've ever played the game.

>>52177638
>Mannekins

Confirmed for having never played Warmahordes.

Stop replying to this guy, he's clearly an asshurt 40Kid trying to spread discontent.

>>52177842
Cryx was busted, now Cygnar is busted. PP keep being PP and fanboys refuse to admit there is a problem.

>>52177937
What's the point of arguing game balance at a level of play that no one in this thread is even close to capable of? I cannot think of a more irrelevant thing to discuss about this game.

I won a game against Retribution with a really fluffy list today.

>>52178071
Cool, what were you playing? Also, there's nothing saying that you can't make a fluffy list that's strong.

>>52177992
It's not busted at a high level of play. That's why on tournaments and in high-level play you see a wide variety of factions and even a decent variety of list.

The problem is the low-level. In Mk2, bane spam killed newbs and people getting into the game. Vets and people who'd played through knew how to bring lists to mitigate those problems and what to do, but if you were someone getting into the game with one list trying to learn how to play you'd be repeatedly stomped by the same army every time. Even in the high levels of play, it was a common practice to bring an all-comers list... And an anti-Cryx list.

Now in Mk. 3 Storm lances are running people off the board easily. It's a single purchase that can go into any list and can beat any list that isn't prepared for them. Even outside of that, things like Hunter spam are shitty tactics - But you can still assassinate someone who isn't prepared and who doesn't know how to properly screen their troops before they even get to move.

PP's shitty balance is affecting new players, not the veterans or the people who really study the game's mechanics. Many armies only function properly once you've gotten deep into the game and others can stomp at low-levels of play easily without ready counters built in.

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>>52178233
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points

(Kozlov 1) Lord Kozlov, Viscount of Scarsgrad [+28]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Decimator [16]
Great Bears of the Gallowswood [9]
Iron Fang Pikemen (max) [15]
- Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard [4]
Kossite Woodsmen (min) [7]
Widowmaker Scouts [8]
Iron Fang Kovnik [4]
Manhunter [4]
Manhunter [4]
Yuri the Axe [6]
Gobber Tinker [2]

This one. I based it on the short story "Path of Honor and Blood", (http://privateerpress.com/files/PathofHonorPathofBlood.pdf) in which Kozlov, his battlebox, some Pikemen and a bunch of peasants defend a village from a bunch of Trolls.

I filled the list out with stuff that seems fluffy (Widowmakers and Manhunter go along well with Woodsmen and the Great Bears aesthetically connect the Pikemen and the wildlings) and a random Gobber Tinker. (Not having any 2 point models is rough)

The scenario we played was super cool too (see picture). The Retribution player took the role of the defender, trying to get the messenger to the dead drop. The game came down to the Marksman hitting Eiryss in a forest with a lucky 11 and rolling high enough to kill her, after wearing all solos in the elven army.

>>52178367
I fucking WISH someone would run Storm Lances against me at my LGS. Like seriously. I'm sick of bringing Mordikaar to the shop and oh look everyone's playing battlegroups today oh fucking great.

>>52178540
Well then play Makeda, or Xerxes. Lists will probably get shaken up a bit when SR2017 drops, maybe.

>>52177675
>calls Warmahordes a train wreck
>plays MTG
????????

>>52178847
Clearly we are better off without him.

>>52172577
>>52174078

Yeah, I'm much more into the Satyxis myself. I'd love to see another Satyxis warcaster.

I have no experience digitally DMing, plenty irl. Would Roll20 work for Iron Kingdoms?

Has the quality of the new faction starter boxes improved yet? There were a few issues at launch such as Maddox's head being a lump of featureless plastic.

Failing that, any news on the battlebox warcasters/locks being released in metal yet?

>>52179408
Nothing so far, methinks. I am also tired of weird gaps in my Khador jack kneeplates...

>>52178836
Last time I played Xerxis1 I ended up against Baldur2 with a couple Woldwyrds who basically hard countered the reason I was even using Xerxis; the upkeeps.

>>52179408
I think they're going to take a while, I believe they said the metals were going to be alternate sculpts.

I haven't touched this game since the start of MK2, but my local group is getting into MK3 in a big way.

I'm looking to put together 50 points of Khador, and in my head I want a fairly mobile force with a strong sniper core. I'm looking at stuff like Sorscha with Beast-09, a Kodiak, of course Widowmakers and the Marksman. Are there any other units I should go for? I'm thinking of going full balls to the wall and tossing in Kell Bailoch and Eiryss as well, but I need some actual frontline troops as well.

>>52179887
Well then go sit in a corner I guess, if you're afraid of playing.

>>52179925
I'm afraid of sitting across the table from Woldwyrds if that counts. They're WAY too good compared to the choices other factions have.

>>52178847
>>52178875
It's really just kitchen table magic with pals. WotC is a shit company, there's no denying that. Magic is attractive because it's cheaper (only when just fucking around. Obviously the sky is the limit for price, but it can be as cheap as you want it to be as well) and way less of a time sink/hassle than miniatures in general. No table to set up, no minis to cart around. Just sit down and twist some cardboard with the gang. No interest in constructed, sanctioned, or competitve MtG. It's toxic and indeed a mess.

Infinity is seriously fun and refreshing, but the game and Corvus Belli aren't flawless. There are some real problems with it. It's just a fun thing to do for a while and I'm sure I'll burn out on it sooner or later.

The game PP has produced now that everything has shaken out is actually a pretty decent game, but the way PP has behaved at every step has made me like them less and less. Furthermore, while the game is finally in a decent state, the complete shit rollout of the new edition really turned me off it. I also feel the game is much more bland and boring than it used to be. Now that the bugs have been worked out it's a decent system. The balance is good. I just find the company to be full of dicks and no longer enjoy the product they're producing. It's not the same game I was drawn in by years ago and that's cool.

No reason to be so snooty.

But seriously, you can't deny that basically big "thing" so far since MK3 has been some amateur hour shit. All the lies/mistakes from the insiders leading up to it. Rulebook with all kinds of mistakes, typos, and rules that don't work.
>SKORNE
The subtle price creep of War Room. Just... War Room itself. Now we have the company shutting down community forums and PGs just prior to the implementation of CiD program? What sense does that make?

>>52179905
Kozlov is good with Tactical Supremacy, and Vlad loves him some snipers. Kell Bailoch is good too.

>>52179962
Really? Woldwyrds are what you're calling OP? Throw a unit at them or something. They're really not that hard to deal with.

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>>52179905
It's a well known knowledge that Kodiaks operate in packs. Grab yourself a second one. Going all abord the Sniper Boat with Sorscha1 is without a doubt a very viable plan.

The mk3 Khador buylist is pretty much:
- (2) Kodiaks
- X Juggernauts
- X Marauders
- A Devastator
- Ruin
- Behemoth
- Good amount of Winter Guard (either unit works, but you need Rocketeers)
- Battle Mechanics
- Kayazy Eliminators.

There is caster dependent stuff too (Man-O-Wars with Officer attachment and Kovnik perform really well under Vlad2, Kozlov, Malakov2 and Irusk1)

I added a snapshot of my two best performing lists in mk3.

>>52179999
Quads for the motherland! Hei! Ho!

>>52180218
How many rocketeers are we talking per squad?

>>52180329
All three. They are really good.

>>52180347
>>52180218

Okay, so right now for a 50 point list, I'm looking at this:

Sorscha1
- Kodiak
- Kodiak
Widowmaker Scouts
Widowmaker Marksman
Kell Bailoch
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (Leader and 9)
- 3 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeer

This leaves me with 7 points to spare. Suggestions?

>>52180392
You usually don't need Winter Guard AND the Sniper package.

But if you do want to go that route anyway, grab Kovik Jozef Grigorovich (he helps them hit and block zones) and a Dog.

If you ever go up to 75, invest in Behemoth and you'll have a solid list.

>>52180392
Alten Ashley is the 8th member of the Sniper squad btw. He has 14" range with his (above average) gun, pathfinder, prowl and reposition 3, meaning he is difficult to catch.

He does however, mostly work against Hordes factions, since he specializes in killing Warbeasts (and does absurd damage against them). Ashley does however have some use against Warmachine too, since he prevents repairs just for hitting.

>>52180441
So what would you suggest then, if not the Winter Guard? Would Iron Fangs be any good in that list?

>>52180506
Thanks for the tip, I'll look to include him.

>>52162175
>>52174176

>he doesn't believe that lord Toruk is the supreme and unquestioned god of all of creation.

>he hasn't given himself over to the cthulu dragon body and soul

>he still wants to keep his dick when he could have THE POWER OF UNDEATH!!! and learn everything

>he believes he's even worthy of the gift of undeath.


LaughingSatyxis.jpg

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>>52180632
Synergistically, Sorscha1 tries to avoid having big infantry units around, since they easily get in the way of your feat, since it requires Line of Sight.

However, I have used Iron Fang Pikemen with her before and they are perfectly serviceable, especially if you're just getting back into the game. Also, your list could use some armor crackers and Pikemen DEFINITELY fill the bill here.

If you asked me which Pikemen, I would actually recommend you play Black Dragons instead of Pikemen. Black Dragons are a bit more expensive and capable on their own, but don't profit from Iron Fang support as much as regular Pikemen (Iron Fang Kovnik, Kovnik Markhov).

However, regular Pikemen are cheaper and you could play something like this: <----

>>52180030
>They're really not that hard to deal with
They don't look it, but what exactly can you do about them? You can't put a single buff on your guys to help them survive, so you're forced to go in raw against a RAT6 POW12 ROF3 gun. Their power level is pushed to the point of being comparable to Gunbunnies. Plenty of recent lists on discountgames have a pair of Woldwyrds in because why the fuck not? As a Skorne player I just look at them and weep. You know what my equivalent has? RAT5, ROF1, self cast Snipe, and the ability to ignore stealth if it stands still. Whoop-dee-fucking-doo.

>>52180815
>Satyxis
>laughing at dick

Satyxis are canon sluts. They even give their one-night-stands weird gifts if the D was truly savage. They need the dick more than anyone.

>>52180839
So for pikemen, would you take the Officer or the Kovnik? Or make room for both?

>>52180940
You know that a satyr in folklore is the male equivalent of a nymph, right? And nymphs want the Descartes at all times right? And you know what nymphomania is, right? Well guess what satyromania is.

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>>52180958
The Officer. The mini-feat is amazing and the ability to charge through terrain is very vital in this day and age.

The Kovnik lost a lot of power in the transition, being no longer able to give the Pikemen +2 Speed. He gives your Pikemen steady (which counters stuff like Kreoss1's feat or makes them old tough under Irusk2) and Precision Strike (which lets you damage any column or spiral freely, rather than rolling).

I personally think it's not worth bringing the Kovnik at all, unless you go heavy into Iron Fangs (like pic related). Which sounds cool, but should really wait until a theme force releases.

>>52180881
I mean, I guess. They still don't see through stealth and are fury 2. At 9 points I wouldn't feel bad throwing a unit or budget heavy at it, or shooting it. Cannoneer would do much better against it than the wyrd could do back.

>>52181434
>Cannoneer would do much better against it than the wyrd could do back
Probably owing to it costing a lot more points. I actually consider the Cannoneer a shit beast at this point. The splash is almost always irrelevant. I'd much rather go all the way up to a Mammoth, which brings its own raft of problems when you're playing against Baldur2 because THAT FUCKING WALL TEMPLATE RRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>52180940
>>52180971
>The very presence of Satyxis witches leeches the vitality of their enemies, and the most potent of their invocations can make the bodies of the hag and her followers into blood-hued wraiths who laugh at the impotent weapons of their enemies
Keep away from my essence

>>52181485
I'm trying, man. If you're just going to dismiss my suggestions without trying anything out I'm going to have to turn my attention elsewhere.

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>>52180815
>he still wants to keep his dick when he could have THE POWER OF UNDEATH!!! and learn everything

Thamar offers the opportunity to become immortal and learn the secrets of the universe without losing my dick.

Also, she's hot.

So yeah, fuck Toruk basically, nigga can go fight dinosaurs elsewhere.

>>52181621
I've tried 3 of my lists out against Baldur2 now and been swept aside trivially each time. With Xerxis1 I just gave up in my opponent's 2nd turn since I had no Cetrati left so what's the point, Rasheth couldn't get a Mammoth anywhere up the board and it couldn't crack through the ARM anyway, and Naaresh just couldn't crack the ARM. Loki at 14/22 what the fuck man.

>>52181691
Wait wait, Thamar is a hot grill? Where do I sign up?

File: Thamar.jpg (105KB, 744x1024px) Image search: [Google]

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>>52181757
Right here. Full name, obviously, in blood.

>somewhere in the wilderness of the IK this scene is playing out, but with the genders reversed and Thamar instead of Black Philip
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKODPw1UEZs

>>52181874
>Wouldst thou like to see.. my tits...

Anyone have the Mk3 decks?

>>52182283
Check OP, third link under MK3 Rules

>>52179967
>The game PP has produced now that everything has shaken out is actually a pretty decent game, but the way PP has behaved at every step has made me like them less and less.
Agreed on the behavior, but I'm pretty much over the game, which is Ballet for Assholes, at least locally.

>>52181739
>Naaresh and Rasheth can't crack ARM

Ah, okay. This is where we tell you to git gud, and actually mean it.

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>>52181691

>he gets distracted by women in pursuit of power and knowledge.

>he hasn't forsaken pleasures of the flesh for more power.

>he hasn't harnessed the power of necroautism.

LaughingWarwitchs.jpg

Trying to decide between starting Skorne or Circle. Pros/Cons?

>>52183556
is there a miniatures skirmish ruleset you prefer, out of curiousity?

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Sup /tg/ I've been away from the game for some time, and I yes I know what's currently going on with PP at the moment, however there's a warmahordes group starting with quite a few players at the moment in my city, how's circle at the moment? The last time I have played my main Caster Kromac just got his epic release.

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Any advice on this list? I feel pretty confidant fielding everything here.

>>52179145
Sure, why wouldn't it? It's of course not as good as an IRL session.

Bear with me, since I basically don't know anything about WMH: what is the beefiest, most resilient, braindead army to use in WMH?

To explain my question: as for general flavor, I would love a stonkin huge Winter Guard list that all FOR THE EVERLASTING GLORY OF THE INFANTRY, but my recent experiences with Imperial Guard has shown me that I don't like the feeling of my plastic dudes just dying on me helplessly. I'd much more prefer something that is like multiwound terminators in 40k: not numerous, hard to kill, don't really need some bullshit gamey combo with psykers to work.

>>52185989
>beefiest, most resilient, braindead army
Khador. Literally an armor wall that runs up to slug it out.

>>52185989
Well Khador has all you are looking for.

You can spam Winterguard to great effect, but like you said, of your 60 dudes, 30 will likely die.

You can take a ton of Warjacks which are tough as fuck to crack.

There's also a Man'o'War theme force on the way so they'll probably be extremely viable then. They're almost like low-tech Terminators.

In any case: Be prepared for your stuff to die. Nothing in this game is invulnerable and the best way to protect your stuff is to play well. You will of course have trouble with that at first as this game is not easy to learn.

>>52183632
10/20 is one thing. 14/22 is another.

>>52184360
Circles alright. after all the nerfs we have good stuff that isn't really broken. Only thing I don't like is how like only 2.5 of our infantry options are good. But from what I gather that's how every faction is.

>>52187641
Rasheth will make even a gladitor mat 8. hitting loki on 6, feat and blood mark will make him arm 18. and he won't be able to dodge away since he has roots of the earth on him. gladiator is only 15 points. a bronze back will even decimate him even more, for 1 point less then loki.

Tiberion can put him in the ground and not even be hooked on the way in as well.

>>52188167
Truth be told that doesn't seem so bad, I've always loved my tharn, hopefully now they can actually survive on the battlefield

What is Legion current status? How do we deal with Cygnar and Retribution? Hellmouth is must have? New theme forces from Command book is good? How do we fix legionnaires?

So question for those of you anons who go to steam rollers/master events. What's your record look like and which faction do you play?

>>52185989
Khador's been mentioned a couple times. Skorne, Trolls, and Menoth can all also do the "beefy, resilient" playstyle.

That said, almost any faction *CAN* do whatever playstyle you want. Each faction has its strengths, but there's always a few casters and/or theme lists that break the mold and make it do something totally different.

>>52175070
Me and people in my area are branching out into Infinity and Malifaux, but grass is sure as hell is not greener there. It's more a new shiny toy factor than actual system being better.
After playing other systems I can see how WMH is relatively very solid. Also the problem is that everything else is skirmish, no popular big army wargame alternative to WMH.

>>52185989
Jackspam Khador, Menoth or Retribution.
Or wait for Khador manowar theme.

>>52175070
Personally I never stopped playing GW's games - I just stopped buying new stuff for them, because I found I was enjoying Warmachine a whole lot more. Now it's the opposite. I still play Warmachine occasionally, but I'm not adding to my collection, and instead started a Genestealer Cults army which is proving great fun. If PP unfucks their game, I'll happily swing back.

A had a conversationat my LGS last week where a fellow wm/h player told me with a straight face that the game is dying while we were surrounded by new players. Are people just idiots and believe every bit of hyperbole they hear on Facebook?

>>52189299
Yes.

>>52189368
I guess he did also say if I play for the fluff I'm doing it wrong. This is why I don't play with these fucking people anymore.

>>52189165
>WMH
>big army war game
>infantry "spam" is like 40 models

>>52189766
It's bigger than most
At that scale, the only thing bigger is 40K, Fantasy and AoS

I wish I could play more Warmachine, even casually. But aside from the tabletop night at my local card shop per week, no one I know has time pretty much ever.

Those employed fucking normies reeeee

>>52190308
If I wasn't employed I wouldn't get to play at all.

>>52189766
If not wmh, than what fits that bill? Outside of Warhammer.

>>52188619
Hope you like the lady tharn, the male tharn are very lackluster. The wolves/reeves/skin walkers are good

>>52188629
I'm not a legion player but from what I read online, your theme forces suck, lylyth3 is godlike, and you destroy cygnar.

>>52183779

Skorne is all pro, right now. The most worked-over faction in the game- very hard to make a purchase mistake.

Circle, hope you like Sentry stones and hope you hate the infantry.

>>52191534
>but muh DEF 12

I can't believe there are still Skornefags left complaining.

>>52192512
What? The fuck are you on about?

>>52193231
I think he's doing that trolling thing

>>52193231
I have seen Skorne players complain even post-errata. They either cry about a, SPD 4, b, DEF 10 or c, "my stuff is too expensive".

>>52194165

pics or it didnt happen

>Seriously.

>>52191534
Can Skorne be tricky though? From the descriptions I've heard, playing Skorne is basically just a damage check for your enemy, I'm hoping that is just neckbeards exaggerating because I love their beasts, but don't want to play them if there's zero tactics involved on my part.

>>52194595

Then don't. You can do both (or any number of other things), that is part of what is meant be "all pro".

>>52194595
Define tricky.

>>52195080

Mordikaar fuckery, I'd assume. Maybe Makeda2 fuckery, failing that Morghoul2 fuckery.

>>52195272
Mordikaar, Morghoul2 and Makeda2 all changed a lot from Mk2.

Mk2 Makeda2 used to be a beast missile, now she's mainly infantry support.
Morghoul2 was shit in Mk2, now he is playable in that he can sling mortality and has a solid feat. He's not really tricky though.
Mordikaar lost some infantry support and it changed to beast support. But in essence he's still all about the spells.

I would love to start playing Skorne, but unfortunately, I wanted to finish getting all the Khador models before buying into a new faction.

And faction will probably be grymkin, since I am unhealthily obsessed with the Old Witch.

Have Grymkin been updated on the CID forums yet?

>>52196149
Yep

Do PP forums still exist because my membership hasn't been approved and it's been a week?

>>52194595
Skorne are very tricky. I mean, if you want to run beast heavy you have to pick from a whole host of different casters! Oh, wait, you want to play infantry? Okay here's your Makeda1 and your Swordsmen + UA.

New Khador player what do I need to make the motherland great again?

>>52198365
Like, Kodiaks and Juggernauts, my man.

>>52162580
...Is this for real?

Been waiting for Khador to suffer a real defeat.

>>52198500
Yes, Julius will Make Cygnar Great Again.

Could someone ITT explain to me what ADR is?

>>52198500
>what is Thornwood

>>52198365
Scroll up to >>52162957 and >>52179905 and read the comment chains.

>>52198587
As a Retfag, I couldn't care less about Cygnar's greatness.

I just want Khador to get hurt.

>>52198669
You got your stupid god back and because of her failure, the Empress gave Zerkova's character jack to Butcher.

Isn't that good enough for you?

If I worship Thamar will she suck my dick?

>>52198500

The story involved Magnus detonating a cache of illegal poison gas right underneath Vlad and his army. Vlad got out okay of course but his army was fucked up to the point that the Khadorans were forced to retreat from a fight that was firmly in their favour.

>>52198789
>illegal poison gas
Yeah, best outlaw it, wouldn't want anyone dying in this war would we.

>>52198925

Do you not know about the Geneva Protocol?

>>52198956
>If we outlaw it, no one will use it!
Quit being naive Anon, you're above this. All the Geneva Protocol does is put the power in the hands of those who break it. It's like trying to outlaw guns; it just makes people who have guns more powerful.

>>52199017
>If we outlaw it, no one will use it!

That's not what I'm suggesting. You just seemed very surprised that the Iron Kingdoms would ban a weapon from use in warfare, when there is precedent for it in reality.

>>52199076
And there's a precedent for people not giving a fuck about the outlawing of said weapons in reality. It seems like a moot point imo desu senpai baka baka.

>>52199017
Why have any laws then? Laws against murder just put power into the hands of the people who murder anon!

>>52199097
>And there's a precedent for people not giving a fuck about the outlawing of said weapons in reality. It seems like a moot point imo desu senpai baka baka.

Yes, which is why Magnus uses it in the story, Anon.

File: Trollbloods in progress.jpg (1MB, 2816x1920px) Image search: [Google]

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Trollblood battlebox, Extreme Dire Troll Mauler, and a few Fennblades, painted and ready for the battlefield
I cannot paint a tartan for the life of me, so I cheated and just made them solid orange.

>commission paint job from artist
>he breaks his hand
>"dont worry it wasnt my painting hand, things are looking good"
>things actually look good
god bless you commision-kun

>Local scene is freaking the fuck out over a pic in a book that possibly shows a spider tank for say cygnar

HYPE.

>>52198789
To be fair, Vlad implies they didn't need to retreat. Vlad gives the order to pull back after realizing Stryker was willing to die rather than let the khadorans walk into more of the poison gas explosions. He respected that enough to pull back from the city and accept the battle as a loss.

>>52199535

I really didn't get that when I read it, but I'm willing to accept both reasons as true.

>>52188629
Legion is actually not bad at all right now. We have two good theme forces (and one terrible one, but even Cygnar has Sons of the Tempest) and quite a few competitive casters. As far as Ret and Cygnar go, Each one has to be approached in a different way. Kaelyssa probably won't play into Legion much since Eyeless Sight shuts off a lot of her feat. Ravagore Scather templates cause problems for all single wound infantry, including Sentinels. Cygnar's best unit are Storm Lances, and Anyssa Ryvaal, Raptors, and Lylyths are pretty good at killing them. Bonus points there is that We have Wraithebane in faction and our heavies can hit like trucks. It's hard to go wrong with Vayl2, Lylyth3, Thagrosh1, Absylonia2, and Fyanna2. Other casters like Rhyas1, The Twinjas, and even Kryssa (!) can be competitive in the right build.

>>52199394
What pic?

>>52199207
Nice job, anon.

I've seen a lot of orange trolls, don't worry about it.

>>52199575

Just saw it on a guys phone. Looks like it's showing off cryx stuff but in the top right it shows some spider tank thing.

>>52198591
>http://files.privateerpress.com/op/2016/MastersRules2016.pdf
>http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/masters
ADR is like a 40 point sideboard you get for choosing to play from among a rotating roster of warcasters for both your lists. Ask your TO if adr is used for events before getting to worked up about it.

>>52199566

What's a competitive Kryssa list look like?

I have most of Legion's casters at this point barring Lylyth3 and Kallus, and every time I think about playing Kryssa I think of nearly every other caster minus Saeryn and just play them instead.

>>52198789
Fuck yes, I love it when assholes have to deal with people finally getting tired of their shit and just unleashing with no restraint.

>>52199659
Kryssa's not our greatest warlock by any stretch, but her Feat Turn makes our stuff hit like a truck. Playing her in Ravens of War and Oracles of Annihilation is largely attractive because she gets theme benefits and Azrael, which is really her main selling point in themes. I'll post three lists in a bit, one out of theme and one in each viable theme. Be prepared: Many Neraphs ahead.

>>52162175
Cyriss, you uneducated plebeian.

Out of theme Kryssa is hard to justify, but having a solid battlegroup and good targets for Tac Sup are good.
http://conflictchamber.com/#ba1bg3g_aRaObvbua_fTb9b9bbbbbbcococo

Legion Army - 75 / 75 points

!!! Your army contains a pre-release entry.

(Kryssa 1) Kryssa, Conviction of Everblight [+31]
- Azrael [21]
- Typhon [24]
- Seraph [14]
- Naga Nightlurker [8]
- Succubus [4]
Blighted Nyss Swordsmen (max) [15]
Hellmouth [6]
The Forsaken [4]
The Forsaken [4]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Spell Martyr [1]
Spell Martyr [1]
Spell Martyr [1]

In Ravens of War, the main attractive point is that Kryssa can work as an anti-Hordes drop by removing AD and unlike Fyanna2 (who loves Swordsmen, Hellmouths and a Succubus too much in my opinion) Kryssa can jive with what fits in the theme.

http://conflictchamber.com/#ba1b_-0lg3g_eJeJaOaXaXbqb9b9bebdcococo

Legion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Ravens of War

!!! Your army contains a pre-release entry.

(Kryssa 1) Kryssa, Conviction of Everblight [+31]
- Azrael [21]
- Neraph [12]
- Neraph [12]
- Seraph [14]
Blighted Nyss Raptors (min) [11]
Blighted Nyss Raptors (min) [11]
Annyssa Ryvaal [8]
The Forsaken [0]
The Forsaken [4]
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [6]
Strider Deathstalker [4]
Spell Martyr [1]
Spell Martyr [1]
Spell Martyr [1]

My favorite so far as been in Oracles of Annihilation, since she gets a lot of support for free and keeps her wonderful character heavy.

http://conflictchamber.com/#ba1b_-0tg3g_bveJeJeJeJaObrbeb9b9bebbbb

Legion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation

!!! Your army contains a pre-release entry.
!!! You are using a pre-release theme.

(Kryssa 1) Kryssa, Conviction of Everblight [+31]
- Azrael [21]
- Naga Nightlurker [8]
- Neraph [12]
- Neraph [12]
- Neraph [12]
- Neraph [12]
- Seraph [14]
Blackfrost Shard [9]
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [0]
The Forsaken [0]
The Forsaken [4]
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [0]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]

>>52200142
Also, getting your upkeeps out for free is very nice and Apparition on Black Frost Shard is great.

>>52199613
Wow, that sounds great. Why isn't it used in Steamroller?

>>52199207
I was originally going to play Trollbloods but switched to Cryx because the idea of painting tartan is so intimidating. I know that feel.

>>52194595
Skorne is as direct or subtle as you want them to be.

>>52196149
>>52197501
What did they change?

The Dreamer – We saw several battle reports where her attack was allowing for incredibly powerful interactions against Warbeasts. We did not feel this was a reasonable use of the attack, as well as the inconsistency with her power level against HORDES.

Sleepwalker only effects living warrior models.

Old Witch 2 – Reworking the cloud to be less abusive, especially with Reinholdt and creating cloud walls. Removing boosts to feat makes her less efficient at assassinations

Carrion Crows Magic Damage Icon removed because it is redundant with special rule wording from Black Wings.

Black Wings triggers on directly hitting an enemy model.

Feat loses boosted attack rolls.

Divination changed to reroll failed attack rolls.

Old Witch 3 – Reworking the cloud to be less abusive, especially with Counterblast. Hellhole clarified. Removing boosts to feat makes her less efficient at assassinations.

Carrion Crows Magic Damage Icon removed because it is redundant with special rule wording from Black Wings.

Black Wings triggers on directly hitting an enemy model.

Feat loses boosted attack rolls.

Hellhole clarified to be one unit, not all units.
Frightmare - Using large number of Frightmares has proven to be very strong. Hopefully reducing survivability can help armies combat this.

Reduced DEF 13>12

Gorehound – The Gorehound had many reports of extreme survivability. Prowl builds into its fluff of hiding into the shadows.

Stealth changed to Prowl.

Cage Rager – Wraithbane is a very powerful animus and gives the faction access to blessed, opening a lot of matchups.

.Changed animus from Arcane Suppression to Wraithbane.

Rattler – The Rattler has seen very low inclusion rates inside of battle reports and feedback. This hopefully will encourage their inclusion.

Point cost reduced from 9>8

Gained Pain Response.

Hollowmen – We are not seeing Hollowmen as often as we would like. As the main ranged unit in the faction, we want to promote their use inside the faction.

Cost reduced from 8/14>8/13
Dread Rots – Dread Rots are currently being included almost unanimously over Neigh Slayers. Reducing their speed may see an increase in Neigh Slayer use. This is one we’ll be watching very closely. New wording has been added to increase the functionality of their corpse collection rules.

SPD reduced from 6>5

Bag Man changed and Victuals You Can Neither Raise Nor Buy added.

Cask Imp – Alchohol Fueled received clarification. The change in FA is due to manufacturing and has no relevance to game play.

FA reduced from 4>3

Alchohol Fueled movement clarified. The damage portion of this rule was split off into a new rule called Temperamental.

The damage from Temperamental now says “other models in the AOE”

Witchwood – The Witchwood was not performing at the level we wanted. Instead of increasing effectiveness, reducing points should achieve parity with other options.

Reduce point cost from 6>5

Death Knell – The new wording prevents abuses with killing your own models.

Bring Out Your Dead! Rewritten to prevent abuse.
Arcana – We have reevaluated the strength and usefulness of several Arcana Cards:

Shroud:We have cranked up the strength of this Arcana as it was rarely used. Please test this thoroughly, it is one we are currently keeping an eye on. Shroud no longer effects enemy models now grants Stealth to friendly models in control range.

Ill Omens: This Arcana was very ineffective against ranged attacks. This new wording will allow it to function how we wanted. Ill Omens now has a global range.
All Fall Down: All Fall Down now has standardized trigger wording with other Arcana cards.
Injury: Standardized the trigger wording with other Arcana. Now removes Pathfinder from enemy models.
Pandemonium:No longer effects all units, only the original order. No longer can be used on Warcaster Units.
Labyrinth: Now triggers in control range.

Dark Menagerie – The corpse token benefit has been changed in light of the new Dread Rot rules.

Corpse tokens are now granted to non-trooper models.

>>52201039
The three posts above this one are the extent of the present changes.

While I'm at it:

Cygnar Command Book

http://www104.zippyshare.com/v/aG3otFxu/file.html

RIP Old Witch 2. She was not even out yet.

>>52201353
wot happen?

>>52200142

This looks like a lot of fun, but I really don't think I could justify plopping down for 3 more Neraphs.

Maybe once Fyanna2 is released I could pick up another and see how that goes.

>>52201395
See >>52201104

Why does she get a 2 and 3 before she is even release?

>>52201406
With Fyanna I'm not sure I would bother with them. Fyanna doesn't play great in Ravens and isn't as good in Oracles as a lot of our other casters. I'd suggest running a list ut of theme with her without Neraphs since Fury can only go on at most 2 models/units any turn. Usually that's two Angelii, an Angelius and Zuriel, or an Angelius and a unit of Blighted Nyss Swordsmen for me. Here's a list I've had a lot of local success with.
http://conflictchamber.com/#ba1bgNaPaPeKaObua_fTfTb9bbbb

Legion Army - 75 / 75 points

(Fyanna 2) Fyanna, Torment of Everblight [+28]
- Angelius [17]
- Angelius [17]
- Zuriel [18]
- Seraph [14]
- Succubus [4]
Blighted Nyss Swordsmen (max) [15]
Hellmouth [6]
Hellmouth [6]
The Forsaken [4]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]

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>>52199575

>top left

Some sort of tank/turret. Could be Cygnar or Merc, doesn't have any distinct traits that the other factions are known for. Could also be a smaller part of a larger model. I personally think it looks Rhulic.

>bottom left and hammer

Apparently Siege2 with a minuteman jump pack strapped to his back.

>top right

A model from the upcoming Northkin command book, probably a warlock or new solo.

>bottom right

A trencher with a warcaster's arcane turbine on his back. It's possible that there could be more than 1 warcaster in the upcoming theme books, but another popular theory going around is that he is the Llaellese trencher warcaster that's been hanging around Ashlynn in the recent books.

>>52201353

>4 more weeks of CID playtesting

You can still save her, Anon.

>>52201406
Alternatively, if you wanted to give oracles a try, this list wouldn't be bad. Losing a truly ideal target for Iron Flesh is a bummer, but at least it means BFS won't die to drifting blasts. You can sub out the Neraphs for something like a third Angel or even some Hex Hunters if that floats your boat. The two Sorcs on Hellion are for more board coverage and redundancy but more than one isn't really needed.
http://conflictchamber.com/#ba1b_-0tgNaPaPbveJeJaObubrbeb9b9bbbbbbbecococo

Legion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation

!!! You are using a pre-release theme.

(Fyanna 2) Fyanna, Torment of Everblight [+28]
- Angelius [17]
- Angelius [17]
- Naga Nightlurker [8]
- Neraph [12]
- Neraph [12]
- Seraph [14]
- Succubus [0]
Blackfrost Shard [9]
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [0]
The Forsaken [4]
The Forsaken [4]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [0]
Spell Martyr [1]
Spell Martyr [1]
Spell Martyr [1]

Why does PP hate old witfh?

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>>52201193
Aces mate.