L5R General /l5rg/

>>52129522
>fencers
Crane, but the Dragon give them a very good run for their money.
>Soldiers
All-around, Lion, but the Crab are the toughest and the Unicorn have the best cavalry.
>Polite
Crane.
>Titfuck
Judging from >>52129681 I'm going to guess Unicorn.

>>52129713
Pfft. Obviously the Crab give the best paizuri. They like their women big for baby-making, so that means bigger hips and bigger tits.
I mean, she probably won't bathe too much and she'll be rude as fuck and swear like a sailor and drink like a fish, but her titfucks will be pretty good.

>>52129681
Why is the Lion lying on top of the Dragon?

Why is the Crab groping the Unicorn's thighs?

Who's the bland lady dressed in green in the back?

Where are the Scorpion's hands?

Why do none of them look Asian?

What is the Spider even wearing on her legs?

Is the Phoenix's back okay?

Why does the Crane look a little autistic?

>>52129763
>Why is the Lion lying on top of the Dragon?
Tripped.
>Why is the Crab groping the Unicorn's thighs?
Trying to stand up.
>Who's the bland lady dressed in green in the back?
Mantis
>Where are the Scorpion's hands?
Holding knives where you can't see them.
>Why do none of them look Asian?
When does ANYONE look Asian in L5R art?
>What is the Spider even wearing on her legs?
Fishnets
>Is the Phoenix's back okay?
No, she's paraplegic.
>Why does the Crane look a little autistic?
Inbreeding.

>>52129522
>>52129681
Do samurai ever act as prostitutes outside of the Scorpion, or do whores act like samurai as a roleplay thing?

>>52129833
In Rokugan? Dunno. Rokugan is basically rated PG-13, no matter how hard some folks tried to make it otherwise.
In Japan? Actually...yeah. Women were supposed to be demure in public and whores in private for their husbands. Japan has a ridiculous number of sexual hangups; far more then it used to have actually.

>>52129893
>Japan has a ridiculous number of sexual hangups; far more then it used to have actually.
Much like the Greeks, the Japanese idealized Male-Male relationship, especially in the context of mentorship.
>>52129713
>All-around, Lion, but the Crab are the toughest
I mean, isn't Toughest the same as best in regards to soldiers? The Crab could essentially kick the shit out of any clan individually IIRC, but the of course have their duties at The Wall and can never bring their full forces to bear.

>>52129979
Not necessarily. The Crab are very durable, yes, but they aren't very flexible, outside of the Himura of course. Compare that to the Matsu, who as their graduation have to show skill with some absurd number of weapons (twelve, I think, but don't quote me on that). Also, on a logistical level, they're very reliant on food imports, whereas the Lion have some of the largest farming fields in Rokugan.

What is the Emperor's gepukku ceremony like? Does he do the topaz championship? What school does he study, I assume courtier.

>>52129813
Those aren't fishnets I've ever seen.

>>52129893

>Japan has a ridiculous number of sexual hangups; far more then it used to have actually.

General cause of the Christian Missionaries for that one. Japan used to carve sex acts onto large bamboo pieces for sale, basically the equivalent of the old porn mag. Interestingly enough they would also cater to foreigner interests by carving foreigners with Japanese women.

>>52129979
>Much like the Greeks, the Japanese idealized Male-Male relationship, especially in the context of mentorship.
It can arguably said that Westernization in the 19th century messed up their sexual shit way worse because they suddenly tried to adopt Western sexual norms without really going through the necessary steps to genuinely change as a society I think.

Hello all. I am one of the lead devs on the L5R LCG project at FFG.
We are dropping our internal NDA at this point so we can do some low key feelers on the current fan base. I have worked on /tg/ before to do the same for some of our other games so here I am again.

Anyways to the core topic.
Monday we will be releasing our first designers insights new item on L5R. We will be going over where we are taking the game and what we want to do with it in the future. The first information about the new rules will be revealed along with a few cards from one of the clans.
My questions for you are:
1: What are some key notes about our redesign of the game you want to know.
2: What clan do you want to see?

We are finalizing the copy Sunday night so I will be hanging out here for the rest of the night so I can take what I get back to the office in the morning.

>>52130099
I...have, but it requires me to post a NSFW picture. It's something I've seen in swimsuits made in Japan.

>>52130259
>1: What are some key notes about our redesign of the game you want to know.
Don't care about the CCG.
RPG when?
>2: What clan do you want to see?
I dunno. All of them? Equally?
Don't do the writers favoritism shit AEG did, it just causes problems.

>>52130327
>RPG when?
We will be touching on it. We have a framework for the RPG ready but we are not ready to lock down what path we are going. While it is not really my project I know there is a deep divide on keeping it a "Roll and Keep" system or bringing it more in line with our other in house RPGs. My current understanding is Management wants to use the in house system as it sells more product but the design team expected to be able to do something like Roll & Keep from the get go.

Outside of that I know we plan to show a beta off at Gencon and have a release by the end of the year.

>Don't do the writers favoritism shit AEG did, it just causes problems.
We will be showing them all over the next few months but to be able to really show case the changes we are making to the game we will want to focus on one clan.
Telling a little story explaining on how we are back to just 7 clans is one of the things we want to do in the coming week as well, we are still debating what clan to go with. I wanted to explain the fall of the Mantis clan but was told it'd be too confusing seeing as they won't be in the core game.

>>52129522
>Which clan gives the best titfucks?
Lion

>>52130438
Do us all a favor and suggest you keep R&K.
I like your House Style but the entry barrier is annoying as hell and it's not really the best system for everything.

>>52130029
The Crab are known for using a ridiculous number of weapons. A bushi capable of using any weapon they happen to grab is known as having "Crab Hands", for a reason. The Crab train in *everything*.

>>52130458
Tell us why, anon!
Tell us of the Lion titfucks!

>>52130083
The Emperor's firstborn (And therefore most emperors) traditionally attends the Kakita Duelist Academy. The rest of the Imperial brats go wherever the clans can politic them. Many just go Otomo because they're going to be joining that family anyway.

>>52130572
Don't respond to him, he's a known impostor.

>>52130029, >>52130575
As a note to you both; training with lots of weapons doesn't make one a soldier. Even knowing how to fight doesn't make you a soldier. It just makes you a fighter.
Being tightly drilled, disciplined in combat, not getting caught up in Glory-seeking bullshit and instead following orders from your superiors, and keeping yourself in formation and not breaking ranks just to get involved in pointless little skirmishes rather then remembering you are an insignificant part of a larger tactical picture makes you a good soldier.

>>52130627
Oh, shame that. How is it known?

>>52130637
That makes the Crab the best soldiers. Discipline at the wall is enough to "make a Lion flinch", and the Crab are noted as remaining in their formations instead of breaking down into duels, much more often than any other military. Tactically, they're not great on offense because they don't have a lot of mobility.
As far as logistics go, they're the kings of it, but their actual supply chain can be lacking due to being food negative.

>>52130108
Iirc, this sumi-e art wasn't catered to foreigners, as they often depicted the foreigner in a very animal-like and unappealing way, the woman often remarking on their stench, guttural sounds or general revulsion. It was more a slice of life sort of thing some japs probably found really arousing.

They even tried to imitate the sounds the gaijin would make during intercourse, which if you do speak the language in question, is quite a surreal experience. A dutch trader making the "Gha, gha, gha" sound probably would be "Ja, ja, ja", or "yes", for instance.

>>52130648
Because he's been caught spewing bullshit in other FFG threads and started up here as soon as the L5R sale was publicly known.

>>52130697
Gotcha.

>>52130697
I have been proven time and again to be real. The people calling me fake are just trolls.

>>52130995
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/ffg%20insider/

It was funny back when you started, but it's really old at this point.

>>52131031
>Posting that fake image
Fine I will just go back to the subreddit and talk to them there again. I hate having to use reddit.

>>52131057
>image
It's an archive of all the posts that mention you, and most of your own posts.

>>52131031
>>52131057
>>52131078
That is not even FFG Insider when he quit posting he posted his trip (##FFGfag) in the topic for people to have fun with. Anyone past the original thread years ago is just some random mook.

>>52129522
Fox clan has the best everything!

except prophets

>>52130590
think about it anon, abjobs to go with your titfucks

>>52129522
>Fencers
Crane, Dragon are pretty good
>Soldiers
Lion, Crane (Diadoji) and Crab honourable mention
>Polite
Unicorn (Ide, hands down). Crane are a close second
>Discretionary Activity
Based on anatomy for the specific activity, Unicorn and Crab with Mantis also worth noting. Based on likely skill, Scorpion or Crane.

>>52131318
You could get that from any bushi-ko, though.

Unicorn and Mantis have dirty gaijin genes giving them huge tits, and the Crab have your choice of snu-snu and perfect motherly waifus.

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>>52129522
>Which clan has the best fencers?
Mantis, All the boat builder translates well into working with wood and building fences.

>Which clan has the best soldiers?
Mantis, The can win their battles without losing a single man and before their foe even draws their swords.

>Which clan has the most polite family?
Mantis, they are the most welcoming and warm family in the land.

>Which clan gives the best titfucks?
See image.

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>>52131375
Taste.

>>52131375
>>52131397
Just think how nice those lightning powers will feel on you.

>>52131348
How does Matsu snu snu and mothering compare to Hida's snu snu and mothering?

>>52130263
link?

One thing I like about L5R is how it manages to provide so many different flavors of being a face.

Not sure which I like best. The crab merchant-face, the crane etiquette-face, the dragon investigator-face, the lion bard-face, the mantis mafia-face, the phoenix historian-face, the scorpion seducer-face or the unicorn negotiator-face?

>>52131513
The Snu-snu is very similar, probably, but the mothering is Hida all the way. Their waifus are the softest and most perfectest.

>>52131603
The Crab merchant is also mafia-face. Probably why they get along so well with the Mantis.

>>52131603
>mantis mafia-face
Ummm what?
What are you implying about Best Clan?

>>52131603
>so new to this game I can't say courtier

>>52131620
Mantis is double-mafia-face then.

>>52131670
The Mantis don't have protection rackets and an entire organization of officially unaffiliated goons doing their dirty work. The Yasuki have extortionists, enforcers, and aren't afraid to burn your shop down if you don't play ball.

>>52129522
I'm interested in at least one of these questions. I really want to say Crab.

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>>52131708
Idk Crab Women don't really have much in the chest area.

>>52131727
You're looking at the wrong Crab women.

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>>52131727
Says you.

>>52129522
Mantis

Thoughts on FFG doing a Time Skip in place of a Reboot?
Like move the setting forward 200~ years.

I'd like them to be able to keep all the history we put into the game but I know it has gotten a little messy.

Only reason I can see a Reboot being worthwhile is so we can have the Nezumi back.

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>>52131375

>mfw filthy peasant gaijin don't respect the unspoken truth that the quality of a titjob is not just in the size and firmness of the breasts, but the sharp wit and loving banter of the woman

>>52131851
>Not knowing the smell of the sea mixed with the scent of your woman.
>Not sharing stories while drinking before fall over all each other in bed.

I feel sorry for those who have not been loved by one of the Mantis clan.

>>52131851
... I don't like Mantis that much, but you have to admit they have this.

>>52131873
If you go back to 1e Unexpected Allies, there's a Crab who gets drunk raped by the fortune of the sea ... so you can have both of those without going Mantis.

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>>52131348
There's an indescribable charm to female soldiers, it's usually the stylish uniform, but samurai don't have dress blues like we understand.

Besides, don't you want to help a Lion officer unwind with a nice titfuck?

>>52131873
The Crab have a navy and get really, really drunk when they're off-duty.

>>52131874
How can you dislike the Mantis clan?
They are the true heart of the kingdom. When all the other clans are fighting over court and lands the Mantis are getting shit done. When the lesser clans are in danger and need help Mantis is the first to step up and welcome them in.
Mantis are the voice and will of the people just as the sea is the voice and will of nature. Without the Mantis the there is nothing to protect the Kingdom for the silly battles of the great clans who ignore anyone who does not share their blood.

>>52131922
>Lion officer
>unwind
Dohoho. That's a good one, anon.

>A Lion samurai's wife asked why he kept a yumi near his forge.

>"For Kakita Actors," he said.

>She laughed. He laughed.

>The anvil laughed.

>He shot the anvil.


>>52131963
>How can you dislike the Mantis clan?
There's room between like and dislike.

>>52131836
I'd go for a post Fire Powder/Guns Rokugan. It'd maybe even like a Steampunk Rokugan!

>>52131348
>Unicorn and Mantis have dirty gaijin genes giving them huge tits

I don't know if you know this or nor, but Mongolians do not have particularly large breasts. At all. They aren't even a particularly large people. At all.

>>52131836
I'd be fine with it.
It'd also be useful to put in some very subtle changes to make the setting slightly more Japanese while retaining the overall flavor, which mostly just requires nudging tiny fluff bits here and there or changing names of things here and there.

>>52132212
>Implying all Unicorn gaijin genes are mongol
>Implying Ujik-hai are mongols
>Implying any Mantis genes are mongol

>>52132237
Honestly I'd like them to go less Japan over all. I know a bunch of people that never tried the game as they got turned off by the "anime" (their words) theme.

It'd be nice to go less Japanese and more western.

>>52132237
>>52132278
It'd be really nice to just not fuck with the setting in terms of how oriental/western it is.

>>52132124
I wouldn't mind including teppo in mainstream Rokugan, just making them the sole province of the Imperial Legions.!Maybe changing some bit about the armies so they actually work instead lovely shit like the "greatest military clan in Rokugan" (the Lion) fighting in such a way that any culture on Earth that has moved past the Stone Age could beat them in a straight fight.

Seriously, the description of Lion Clan tactics are the description of tactics used by all of Japan and that IMMEDIATELY failed literally the first time they ever had to go to war with a foreign power.
There are Bronze Age armies that could defeat Lion Clan tactics.

>>52132276
I was speaking of the Unicorn.
The Mantis...do they marry foreigners? I know they sometimes adopt foreigners into the Clan, but do they marry them? Never read that anywhere.
>>52132278
>>52132298
I mean you could just remove all the Asian-need entirely and focus just on the Clans in an abstract if you want to seriously send the "hey, we DON'T want you to buy this edition" message to about 90% of the existing fan base, sure.

That's always been a healthy way to get your game to sell.

>>52132302
That is the core problem with a Japanese setting really tho. Japanese materials, tactics, and tech are all massively behind the world during the Sengoku Period.
It'd be much more interesting to move Rokugan to be more Chinese based, China at least had a real history.

>>52132298
I'm not talking about changing major things.
I'm talking about doing things like changing the name of certain families so not mean "socially outcast shut-in anime nerd" for example, which they already did once so it's not such a stretch to do it again.
>>52132364
Looks like you fail at history class.
The Sengoku Period came AFTER Japan had adjusted their tactics, shitwit. They then went through a period of EXTREMELY rapid military development (created pike formations, rotating musket lines, sophisticated black powder explosives, and ironclad warships) in around 50-odd years of development, all at once.

Rokugan' warfare resembles the Heian Peroid, which actually fits the timeline; that was around the 12th century (which Rokugan is in), and it was well before almost anything we think of as being samurai-themed even actually existed yet. Like, the KATANA didn't exist yet even, they used far greater curved tachi-pattern swords instead.

>>52132416
Japanese metal is shit so their weapons are pointless. They get away with that shitty wooden and cloth armor as their steel is softer than gold.

>>52132416
After the Shogunate had overthrown the Emperor's political power, they a bit later went to war with the Yuan Dynasty (Mongols), which led to them loosing nearly every land battle they got involved in becaus Mongols knew how to actually fight in a war rather then semi-ritualized skirmishes horse-archery duels.
During the Ashikage Shogunate their tactics went through a period of readjustment, and when the Onin War finally broke out and the Sengoku Period started their tactics had finally caught up to the rest of the world's really really fast, and the uchigatana-pattern style sword (which we now call the katana) had been invented for the increased usage of footmen in warfare.

It was only in the Tokugawa Shogunate that the tactics began to stagnate again, largely because the Shoguns clamped down on literally ANY new ideas and foreign advancements of any kind to maintain political control.

>>52132449
Wrong again.
Japanese metal is fine, but the issue was their SUPPLY of it was awful (not much of it in-country), so they often had to use the "iron sand" method.
There WERE some cheaply made blades in Japan, just like there were in Europe at the time. It's what happens when you start employing huge numbers of soldiers; some are going to have shitty equipment because they can't afford any better.

Most pictures you've seen of samurai armor are actually steel in construction.
However, they loved to paint them with laqour like they were wood because for some reason they thought wood was much more aesthetically pleasing.

Example; every suit of armor in every piece of art on this thread?
That's not a design that the Japanese used with wood at all point. Shoulders are too small and the breastplate is too fused to be earlier armors.

>>52132416
>which they already did
So why are you talking future hypotheticals on something that's already happened?

>>52132520
I meant as an example.
Such as changing "shugenja" to "onmyoji" for example. Otherwise identical in function. I guess if you REALLY wanted you could change the name of monks to shugenja, but not necessary by my thought.

Guess where John Wick got the idea for spellcasting shugenja? Go on, guess.

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>>52132515
This for example, is not wood. This is steel. The breastplate is a single fused piece of metal.
You could literally Wikipedia this and get it right.

>>52132542
Why switch the two? Not arguing, just curious.

>>52132542
>Guess where John Wick got the idea for spellcasting shugenja? Go on, guess.
You realise you're just giving off a bit of a cunty vibe by being like this, right?

>>52132559
There WAS a group of sacred future-telling wise men who spoke with the Kami and had a semi-religious position and have a reputation in modern day as basically being Court Wizards (the Japanese equivalent to Merlin was one). These people were called onmyoji.

Monks is a general religious term for any monk at all, but there WAS a term for isolated warrior monks who supposedly gained superhuman powers based in their esoteric training methods and religious beliefs in the four elements who lived in the mountains.
They were called shugenja, or sometimes yamabushi (though the second is a generalized term for anyone who lives in the mountains and is a warrior).

>>52132562
Look, I don't want to do that. I'm sorry.
My point was that it's OKAY to need to update your setting every once in awhile. It happens to everyone; time moves on, some people get left behind and others do not. Life goes on.
Before I got into L5R I had to do a high school book report and got maybe a C.
Yet I STILL know more about Japan then the guys who created it does, because now I had access to better and more accurate information. Nothing wrong with that, it's just what happens sometimes.

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>>52132620
Oh, and to answer the question; it was this.
D&D's Oriental Adventures made shugenja the equivalent of the priest class, and that's kind of the only thing anywhere where they are mentioned as such; you'd be hard-pressed to find any mention of the shugendo religion at all in most Japanese folklore and even myths and fairytales. They weren't a very big religious movement in Japan.
Presumably when Wick and AEG created Rokugan they did some research on the Emperors, who had their greatest height during the Heian Period and WERE in fact advised by "court Wizards" who could speak to the Kami. My guess was that their source didn't say what they were called and just called their similar group "shugenja" based on their prior experience with this.

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>>52132670
Minor correction; Oriental Adventure's got the idea from the Bushido RPG.
But it's still pretty likely Wick and Co got the idea from Oriental Adventures, which was WAY more popular overall.

>>52133000
Thanks, I KNEW I was off about something but I only vaguely recalled a prior "Oriental" RPG and so wasn't sure if I was imagining it or something.

>>52133009
It might be that Wick played the Bushido RPG a bit; it actually had mechanics rather similar to L5R's older Honor mechanics and being loyal to your superiors and doing honorable shit was part of it's advancement mechanic if I correctly recall the ancient-ass book if it I saw once.

>>52132124
>Steampunk
Yeah, because an Asian fantasy setting suddenly deciding to go steampunk has never been known to be a trainwreck before.

>>52132670
They also did the tengu -> kenku thing too.

>>52133164
That's true.
Though they might have been confusing "karasu-tengu" with "daitengu" a bit, which are two different kinds of the same mythological being.

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>>52129681

>>52130259
>1: What are some key notes about our redesign of the game you want to know.
General mechanics. Is dueling back and actually a viable option, like in the CCG until Samurai?

>2: What clan do you want to see?

Personally I am a Scorpion and Unicorn man, but good fiction is good fiction. Also I'd rather see the Mantis as the old school Yoritomo's Alliance instead of pokeclanning all the interesting Minor Clan. Remember L5R should be about magical samurai doing magical samurai things, bullshit with other stuff (like the colonies) dilutes that.

Also remove Spider forever. Make the Shadowlands an NPC faction ala Warcraft Raid decks.

Everytime I come into these threads I lose a little more faith in humanity. Legit question, because maybe I'm missing out on something here, what's the point of all the autistic debate around L5R? I love the game, it's the only thing I'll run, so I can understand loving the game and wanting people to see what you see in it, but I swear that you guys always stumble onto the dumbest shit

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>>52132124
>Steampunk Rokugan
So much shit taste, you should commit sudoku in shame.

>>52133373
My elder brother (who works in games design sometimes) once theorized that the passion for L5R itself comes from how the design of the different Great Clans appeals to the different sorts of gamer archetypes you find in different games, and that each Clan (except the Mantis for some reason) was one vague gamer archetype designed to appeal directly to that sort of player.
I never really understood what he was talking about until I looked at what my friends played in other games and then what factions they played in the CCG.

Now I think there might be something to what he said, but I dunno.

>>52133578
nah the passion for l5r comes from a deep form of autism

>>52133578
Holy shit, that would explain a lot of the bull shit people spout about the game and their weirdly intense focuses

>>52133578
>>52133635
The way I've heard it, each clan corresponds to a high school stereotype.

>>52133578
So a player that usually plays the big bruiser class/race/clan/whatever ends up playing the big bruiser clan in L5R? And the guy who usually goes for the social face class/clan/race/whatever tends to end up playing the socialite clan in L5R?

This! Changes! Everything!

>>52133633
Hate for one's fellow geek is the glue that holds /tg/ together.

>>52133635
Kind of I guess.
I noticed this one huge guy who loves to play dwarves, barbarians, and warriors ALWAYS plays Crab and played it in the CCG well before he knew there was an RPG. Another guy who only plays social characters, elves, and wizards always plays a Phoenix or Crane. One guy who is a burly ex-soldier but loves playing Wizards is always a Kuni shugenga.

Once I saw the pattern I couldn't UNsee it. I think Mantis were exempt from this in my brother's eyes because they weren't created at the beginning of the game and thus were never designed to appeal to one of these archetypes.
>>52133662
He meant more Gamer Stereotype, like the types of D&D character you liked to play usually.
>>52133685
Pretty much.
He said it was highly manipulative emotionally but smart marketing. He also thought it was why the stereotypes were so emphasized and instead of focusing on how each Clan is flexible within the stereotype, and how each book instead of saying "this is what the stereotype is and how you can be flexible within in and in what ways it's untrue" L5R books instead tend to say "this is why every member of this particular family in a clan is exactly the same"; by emphasizing these stereotypes they were reinforcing that this was "the faction FOR YOU".

>>52133729
Yeah, since each Clan appeals to these broad gamer archetypes and then the plot basically involves setting them AGAINST each other....yeah.
Creating artificial divisions within groups is an excellent way of getting a lot of loud support and attention.

>>52133794
>He meant more Gamer Stereotype, like the types of D&D character you liked to play usually.
I'm aware.
Still.

bully, cheerleader, stoner, jock, rebel, nerd, gossip, exchange student, expelled.

It kinda fits.

Crab: Mating Press, to ensure pregnancy. Will give you paizuri and doesn't mind if you go hard.
Crane: Much more imaginative then she initially appears since she has been training her whole laifu to be a waifu. Likes Cowgirl. You'll only have sex with her when she's good and ready though.
Scorpion: Total whore in bed. Will give up the ass your first night and encourage you to bring other women, especially samurai women. Mostly so she can blackmail them later, but also to please you.
Dragon: You won't even realize she's into you until she walks into your room naked one night and Reverse Cowgirls you awake. You'll never figure her out and sex will come at random times.
Phoenix: Mostly like Crane but significantly less imaginative.
Unicorn. Completely embarrassed the first time you bed the shiotome, but afterword she'll be a bigger slut then the Mantis after finally tasting your dick. Mating Press, Cowgirl, Reverse Cowgirl. Refers to sex exclusively as "breeding".
Lion: Missionary. She's going to be tsundere all the way to bed and awkward about it during, probably upset with you afterword, but when the Scorpion comes in and holds her down and helps her come she'll be too embarrassed to stop and will come back for more.
Mantis: Mostly like the Crab, but with a lot more swearing. Also, she'll rob you afterword.

>>52133918
I think it's more that Gamer Stereotypes and generalized social stereotypes just aren't that different in the end.

>>52134038
Anyone else think it's odd that the biggest stylistic influence on how the Dragon are perceived happens to come from the smallest family in existence, short of the smaller minor clans?

>>52134296
See here >>52133794.
The Dragon are stylistically the way they are to appeal to the type of player that wants to play a faction or character like that, even though largely the Dragon are composed of a really normal samurai family with nothing special about them except that they actually make use of their wakizashi.

>>52134038
See, you put effort into this. This is why I want to die

>>52134681
Well there's faster ways to do it then spending time on 4chan you know.
Go on now, chop chop!

>>52134681
Just ignore them, anon. Every fandom has it's fair share of crazies, you know that.
What would YOU rather discuss? That could help divert the conversation to something more stable.

Okay, so assuming that how katana worked wasn't all completely wrong like it is in the book where everyone's katana is their grandfather's katana and you could actually buy them like you could in ye olde Nippon, how much would they cost?

>>52134859
Oh! I actually know this.
According to the item-crafting rules in Secrets of the Empire a katana has an item value of 25 koku.

>>52134869
Thanks, that makes sense.

>>52134709
You know, I tried getting a conversation on why people go nuts over specific things in l5r, and it devolved to nuts, so I'm just gonna play it safe and lurk

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>>52134709
I'd rather discuss how good in bed the male samurai of each clan are (;,'

>>52134959
In almost all cases same as the women, but from the opposite end of the equation.
The exception are the Unicorn (as there are no male shiotome), who are simply generous and pleasant lovers and less uptight about emotional displays. Moto club you over the head and drag you home, but only after your parents and his parents agree to it ahead of time.

>>52134956
I think it's more that the conversation ended because this >>52133578 actually explains it all really well without really being complicated.
Your discussion starter wasn't a bad one but it ended being something like "Q: why do samurai avoid sword attacks if they love swords so much? A: because pain suck and blood loss is lethal".
The answer is just a really short and easy to sum up one, though I feel like a fucking retard for not figuring it out ahead of time because in hindsight it's REALLY obvious just from looking at my group.

>>52135089
>The exception are the Unicorn
Their men will probably be pretty much the same, especially when you consider how they're treated.

>>52135184
Male Utaku anyway.
Shinjo and Moto are pretty different.

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>>52135089
I like to imagine that gay Mantis swipe your coin purse while slobbin' on your coin purse.

>>52135256
Mantis do not "swipe".
You just wake up with a concussion and flat broke. Regardless of gender.

>>52135256
It's all about those Daigotsu girls, they'll lick your taint

>>52135270
On that note!
Spider: Don't even bother trying to satisfy her, she's had more demons inside of her then a hentai heroine.

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>>52135270
Fair enough, mate. Though, I feel like the Matsu women would be a good time.

So my Moonspeak is weak.
I know that "Bushido" basically means "The Way of the Warrior", but does "Shorido" mean anything?

>>52135327
I think it's a mexican burrito like thing

>>52135327
The name comes from Shouri, which is victory or the administration of justice, and Do, which is the way of.

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>>52132582
Y'know, my take on this problem would be from the other way around: instead of renaming shuggies, I would refluff them from weeaboo court wizards to wuxia priest-mystics. Then have actual sorcerers as a whole different breed of people.

>>52135327
Actually, I think it's supposed to.
In-universe it's called the Path of Dark Victory and the literal translation for "Victory" in Japanese is "Shōri".
So likely, "Shōrido" is intended to mean "The Way of Victory".

I still don't know how they missed the chance to do an awesome Lone Wolf and Cub reference with the name of the "Evil Bushido" thing, but sibde everything ELSE about the Spider is lame as fuck why wouldn't the name of their code be a total wash too?

>>52135357
What do you mean with the Lone Wolf and Cub thing? Never read it.

>>52135363
The lead character of the manga claims to follow "Meifumado", which literally means "The Way of Hell".
Also, go fucking read Lone Wolf and Cub. If you are wary of reading manga, mind you that literally everything stereotype you can think of when it comes to anime and manga wouldn't be invented for another 15 or 20 years when it was written.

>>52135354
Onmyoji were kind of....it's hard to explain, but they actually WERE "Sorcerer-Priests", I guess, and they DID fulfill the role as spiritual advisors and wisemen to nobility and such. In fact the guy who was Chief Onmiyoji (this was not a consistently fulfilled position) was generally pretty damn influential as s person...he just wasn't called a shugenja.
They weren't followers of Buddhism or Shinto or Daoism but adopted elements of all three while the entire time strongly claiming that what they did was a result of education and learning to separate themselves socially and politically from the priesthood who had their own traditions and power structure.
It's strongly reminiscent of Western Hermeticism in that despite much of their trappings and myth being religious in nature they claimed what they did was a science and not prayer or whatever.

One of the big issues with shugenja is even the WRITERS couldn't really seem to decide weather they were more priests or sorcerers; on one hand the fluff says one thing (that they aren't wizards but are religious figures), but on the other there's already monks (who are priests themselves but work completely different) and also there's repeated mention of Phoenix doing "magical experiments" which sounds a lot less like praying and more like...well...being a goddamn wizard.

>>52132278

>It'd be nice to go less Japanese and more western.

So Deadlands then?

>>52135432
Well, yeah, this is what I would hammer out: shugenja and monks would be both part of the clergy, and would share abilities with the exception of shuggies being able to directly interact with spirits. The main difference between the two would be their focus of purpose: shungeja keep the supernatural forces in check, while monks seek enlightenment - this would be similar of how bushi fight and courtiers talk while both being samurai and thus sharing a certain set of abilities. Outside of their focus, shugenja and monks would be all but indistinguishable - if you meet a sohei who is out for the local lord's blood then he can be either a shuggie or a monk under the headcowl: he will kiho you to death and defeat the same way (well, the shuggie will summon spirits while the monk will have some extra-crazy kiho fuggery, but you won't really feel the difference). It is not like a shugenja can't give spiritual advice or a monk can't deal with supernatural forces, but they will be noticeably worse at it, like a bushi trying to do court stuff or a courtier trying to pull his weight in a skirmish.

One of my players has asked to play a relative of the Emperor. How close can a rank 1 EM reasonably to the Emperor/ Imperial Heir?

>>52129522
Fuck, I want to play L5R eventually.

Just want a huge stick of mighty beating and pulp people with it, and be that huge jovial guy in the party. Like Santa, but also a murderer.

>>52136488
I want to run, but fuck if I can figure out a plot I'd like enough to run. Also internet people are flakes.

>>52136522
You have one person already, assuming my shitty shitty night shift works for you.

>>52136474
Tell him no.

>>52136522
Two!

I wanna play an astrology and divination focused shugenja!

>>52136488
Samurai do not have fun in L5R unless they're of the few Clans or Families that explicitly allow fun in their pre-approved Clan or Family personalities.

That said, the setting takes it's own bullshit a wee bit too seriously.

>>52136528
>>52136589
I'd be glad to have you, but fuck this game takes a good plot to be good. Can't just do any go kill all the goblins sorry of game like dnd

>>52136488
Etiquette demands that samurai show no emotion beyond cordiality and do not physically touch others. If you play that sort of character, you'd be hindering your party whenever you're in court by being a walking scandal.

>>52136624
I just want to be huge with an equally huge weapon. Is that so much too ask? My character might not have fun, but I'll have fun.

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>>52136666
Have some Hida.

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>>52136714

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>>52136724

>>52136666
No, that's what a good Hida does, usually. Crushing is a very useful skill set on The Wall.

>>52136714
>>52136724
>>52136729

Yes! Pretty much exactly what I had in mind.

>>52136664
Damn, I really need to read the books before I play. Plus, I could keep it buttoned up when needed, hopefully.

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>>52136729

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>>52136738
Now for some Hida women.

>>52136751
You're doing god's work Anon.

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>>52136751

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>>52136763

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>>52136734
Playing a samurai is not complex.

See this face? Make that face all the time.
Happy, sad, angry, killing a dude, whatever. Say as little as possible unless addressed. All of your jokes are flat and EXTREMELY dry and understated, if you make them at all. Pain is something you endure quietly, and killing is something you do when it is in your Lord's interest without complaining at all.

>>52136734
Honestly, L5R is at its most fun when the GM and the players are on the same page about how closely to the setting they're going to stick, and the answer is 'not super closely'.

The worst games of L5R I've ever had were fundamental mismatches between player expectation and GM running (one had a scorpion with Gaijin Name: Bayushi Steveaustin when the GM wanted to run ETIQUETTE AND HONOR courtier games) and a game where everyone's on the same page, but the same page is hours of bickering over lore stuff/digging through the Winter Courts, wiki, and supplemental fiction/metagaming their knowledge of the setting.

>>52136763
>>52136772
Hida women sure have nice racks...

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>>52136772

>>52136783
So session zero is more important in L5R than most other games? Got it.

Still want to play a huge dude with an equally huge weapon. Mostly because that image makes me smile like a moron.

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>>52136799
Here's a real-life kanabo for you.

>>52136817
I don't know what about those weapons it is, but I fucking love them. It's all 'fuck you! mace to the face' without any pretense.

>>52136826
They're a mace done Japanese; meaning very aesthetically pleasing somehow, which seems improbable for what amounts to a fuck-off big hardwood stick and iron studs, but there you go.

>>52136799
If not that, then at least having the GM go 'this is what I'm intending to do, this is what you need to know'.

Also, don't play with guys who use the etiquette system as a garrote instead of an interesting roleplay challenge.

>>52136817
So what's the difference between a tetsubo and a kanabo, anyway?

>>52136785
The woman in >>52136763 is called Hida O-Ushi. She has an amusing story.

>"Marriage?" The shriek thundered like a hammer across a wasteland of broken pottery, and a sobbing maid cowered in a heap by the shattered balsa door. Another sakizuki bowl tore through the thin rice paper, and a guard in the hallway ducked to avoid the flying crockery. Within minutes, a snarling Hida O-Ushi stalked past them both, tying her helmet firmly over her jet-black hair. As she passed the hastily bowing samurai, she stormed, "If my brother sends for me, tell him I'm in the Shadowlands cleaning up some trash."
>The Crabs did not move until she was far down the corridor, her iron-shod boots ringing on the solid mahogany like the pounding of a smith's forge. When she was out of sight, the samurai raised their eyes from the floor and looked after her. "Today," murmured one, "I can almost feel sorry for the goblins."
>On top of the high parapets of the Kaiu Wall, Hida Yakamo stood in the whipping wind, glaring out over the broken land that was his demesne. Every struggling branch, each wasted tree and blackened river, he knew them all. He fought them all.
>His cold brown eyes looked down at a lone figure moving toward the great gates, a figure in battered armor. Behind Yakamo, a Crane peered past the Crab Champion's broad shoulders and spotted the samurai. "Your sister at last, Yakamo-sama?" Daidoji Uji asked, smiling. Yakamo's only answer was a nod.
>As she approached the wall O-Ushi met with an out-going party of Hiruma scouts, lightly armed and armored. Their ringing voices echoed up the high stones of the wall, and Yakamo could hear their cheers and banter as his sister swung the tremendous head of an Oni in greeting. "My sister," Yakamo growled, "Who has been 'hunting' in the Shadowlands for nearly six days"
>Uji laughed, a deep, ringing sound that held little mirth. "Don't be angry, my friend. With the news you gave her, you're lucky she's chosen to return at all!"

>>52136861
>"She has her duty to fulfill to our Clan," Yakamo gripped the wall with clenched fists. "Even if she doesn't agree with me, she must obey my command."
>"I'm sure she will, Yakamo-sama." Uji's voice lost all humor as he leaned against the parapet wall. On the ground, O-Ushi was telling the story of her triumph with grand gestures and mighty swings of her hammer. The scouts gathered easily around her, their voices lost beneath the shouts of Yakamo's sister. "I'm sure any man would be glad to marry your sister. She's educated in all the courtly manners," O-Ushi's bloodstained hammer lifted towards the heavens, "And skilled in all the ah-," With a gleeful scream, the hammer came slamming down against the darkened earth, and the Hiruma erupted into cheers of pride and battle. "-womanly arts."
>A bit of powdered granite wafted down from beneath Yakamo's clenched hand, and the Jade fingers shone greenly in the noonday sun. "Call my sister here. Tell her I wish to discuss her wedding plans." A servant behind them bowed swiftly, rising from seiza to dash down the high stone stairs toward the courtyard.
>O-Ushi swaggered up the stairs toward her brother and the Daidoji daimyo, though she left the Oni's head behind. Her armor was stained and dirty, the shoulder plate in need of repair and one panel of her helmet entirely missing, but her smile was bright and fierce. "Good day, Uji-sama, Yakamo-sama," she said cheerfully, crossing her arms rakishly after a brief bow. "You needed me?"
>Yakamo nodded and Uji returned the bow. "I needed you, O-Ushi, six days ago." His sarcasm seemed to be completely lost on O-Ushi as she grinned up at her brother.
>"I'm very sorry, Yakamo-sama. I wasn't given the word that you wished me back from the Shadowlands. And my prey was very troublesome"
>Yakamo waved his hand for silence, and O-Ushi cut off her excuse with a smile. "Enough. You must marry, sister. I order it. Now we must decide who will be your husband."

>>52136838
I should really build one. To spoon with at night.

>>52136839
That's fair. Seems like that should apply to most games.

If you're bringing a garrote to all etiquette situations, something is wrong. Thanks for the warning.

>>52136871
>"I hope you choose a strong husband, my Lord." O-Ushi's voice strained to be polite, and her hand twisted about the hilt of her hammer. "Or he may not survive the wedding night." Uji and Yakamo stared openly as her smile grew broader, and then Yakamo slammed his Jade fist upon the stone of the wall, opening a wide crack in the granite.
>"O-Ushi!" Yakamo raged. "I will not tolerate disobedience!"
>"I have not disobeyed you, brother," She snarled, "I agreed I would marry, didn't I?"
>"You will be wife to this man! You will arrange his house, keep his finances and entertain guests!" Yakamo's veins bulged from shouting, but O-Ushi stood like a rock in his path. "Your duty is to be a good wife!"
>"A good little wife." O-Ushi spat. "If there is to be a marriage, why don't you bring in a good little wife, and let me be a warrior!"
>Before the altercation could come to blows, Uji stepped between the feuding Crabs. "Yakamo! O-Ushi!" Uji waited a moment, watching the anger dim in their eyes. "Your brother will not relent, O-Ushi-san, and it is not your place to question his decision. Let us at least come to terms on your husband. There are many in the Empire who would seek your hand, Do you have a preference?" Her only answer was a dark glower, as Uji's eyes stared into hers with a challenge.
>"I. Will. Not. Choose." O-Ushi said through clenched teeth. She would have said more, but Yakamo interrupted.
>"Very well. If she will not choose, let the news go to all the Clans. A fight for my sister's honor."
>"And the winner claims me?" O-Ushi's face reddened. "So I'm rice for the champion's table?" Her fists rose and her voice turned into a shout. "A broodmare!?"
>Yakamo's roar broke through the air, "You're a Crab who has a duty!" In the angry silence that followed, O-Ushi bowed her head in fury and obedience.

>>52136664
...and Courage demands to shit on all this and just have fun while enjoying your life at its fullest.

>>52136879

>"All right, brother. Have your contest. I'll marry the victor." O-Ushi spat. "But for duty. Nothing more." She bowed curtly, spun, and stormed down the stairs, away from the wall.
>Yakamo glowered at her retreating form for several minutes, his face troubled and resolute. Finally, the Crab Champion turned to his friend, "You do it, Uji-san. I know you Cranes have much knowledge in this sort of thing."
>"As you wish, Yakamo-sama. I would be honored to be your nakodo." He bowed, speaking the traditional phrases which formally accepted the position of go-between for a noble marriage. "The tournament will be held in three weeks, on the grounds of Hida palace. I will invite members of all the noble houses of Rokugan."
>A silent nod, "Three weeks, Daidoji-san." Yakamo turned and walked along the top parapets of the Kaiu Wall, glaring out at the dark wastes of the Shadowlands.
>"Yes, Yakamo-sama." Uji bowed again, and when he straightened, his eyes were narrow and cunning. "When we meet again, Crab Lord, it will be to congratulate me on victory and offer me the hand of your sister!"
>The day dawned cold and gray, a light rain falling from the sky as the samurai gathered on the plains surrounding Hida Palace. Among them, the banners of the Lion, the Unicorn, and the Crane fluttered in a dull breeze. Even the bright colors of the minor clans assembled among them could not bring cheer to the day, and the courtiers stood huddled under the eaves of the palace's wooden walkways.
>Yakamo strode onto the field with his house guard, bowing formally to the assembled Champions. Doji Kuwanan for the Crane, Shinjo Yokatsu of the Unicorn even Hitomi. The dark Dragon Champion stood to one side of the courtyard, attended only by a single man whose skin was blackened by tattoos. "She makes my skin crawl," one of the guard muttered angrily as she half-mockingly returned Yakamo's formal bow from across the field.

>>52136851
Mostly the materials construction, but in Japanese you almost always say "kanabo" rather then "tetsubo".
"Kanabo" means basically "studded/spiked staff", which is more or less what it is and is their word for a mace. "Tetsubo" means "iron staff", which L5R seems to think means the weapon but in reality can be used to refer to a regular quarterstaff shod in iron too due to the ambiguity of the term.

An "araraebo" is a sawed-off version that you used in one hand, much more akin to the maces of Europe; kanabo were actually mostly anti-cavalry weapons. You swung it low and shattered the fragile knees of horses, and if by some miracle the guy up top lived through the fall you could swat him right through his armor.

>>52136885
>"Enough, Tampako-san." Yakamo barked quietly. "Those days are over." Nevertheless, the Crab's eyes narrowed and his lip curled in a silent snarl as he turned away from his old enemy. One by one, the other dignitaries approached Yakamo, their smiles and bows churning his stomach and making his palm itch for a tetsubo. Finally, once the ceremonies were concluded, the Crab Herald stepped onto the rain-soaked field.
>"Noble and honorable gentles," the Yasuki said, bowing to the field, "We, the Crab, thank you for coming to this most joyful celebration, It is our pleasure to be your host, and our honor to share this festival with the other Great Clans of Rokugan. Many years ago, the Clan of the Crab hosted another such assemblage " The Yasuki's voice droned on, and Yakamo began to scour the gathering for his sister. Unable to find her, he frowned and shifted uncomfortably on his chair. At last, the speech ceased, and polite applause drifted from the audience. Yakamo stood and raised his Jade Hand above his head.
>"On this day, one of you will gain a prize above all other prizes. One of you who stand here will claim a place among the heart of my Clan." Yakamo's voice rumbled in defiance of the thunder. "Only the strongest."
>"I would fight for that honor, Yakamo-sama!" The shout rang from the Lion forces, and a young bushi stepped out of the crowd. Another shout, from a Mantis, all in green. A third, then a fourth, then the field was full of cheers.
>"I, for the Unicorn!"
>"I, for the Fox!"
>"I fight for the noble Kaiu!"
>"And I fight for the Crane." The voice was Uji's, and his black masked mempo hid the danger in his eyes. With a swift movement, he raised the tetsubo the Crab had given each of the competitors, and saluted.

>>52136895
>As the shugenja completed the circle around the competitors, another voice called from the side of the field. "And I," it rang across the startled competitors, "I fight for myself." O-Ushi strode down the walkway of the Crab palace in full battle armor, raising her hammer above her head mockingly. The shugenja looked up at the interruption, and there were murmurs and whispers from the field. O-Ushi glared challengingly at Yakamo. "There is no reason I cannot win my own hand. I demand a place on the field." The little Yasuki councilor gaped openly as she stepped into the ring, tying her mempo to her helm.
>"You said anyone could fight in this match, brother." O-Ushi chided. "Is that not true?"
>Outmaneuvered, Yakamo glared at the Yasuki running the tournament, and nodded once, briskly. At that, the little man in the gray robes stepped forward, and raised his hand above the ring. When it fell, chaos reigned within the battle-ground.
>Tetsubos rose and fell in mighty strokes, and screams echoed from the fierce warriors in the huge chalk circle. Soon, the ground turned to mud beneath steel-shod boots, and chiurgeons dragged away the unconscious and fallen challengers. In the center of the ring, O-Ushi stood in a wide stance, swinging her hammer in long, bone-crushing attacks.

Sorry for some of the transcription errors here and there.

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>>52136879

I want to be a loyal broodmare to my lord-husband.

>>52136908
>To the side, three Lion bushi formed a phalanx as they were charged by some of the minor clan bushi. As their tetsubos flailed wildly, crashing against bone and armor, and chi screams ripped through the air. To one side, a Unicorn samurai dodged nimbly beneath his larger opponent's swing, slamming his own tetsubo into the Kaiu's stomach. Chaos reigned on one side of the circle, as the tattooed man lifted one of the Lion over his head and flung the protesting bushi from the ring. A savage smile broke through the Dragon's concentration, and a howl of battle rose from his chest. He leaped upon the Crane, reaching for a hold upon Uji's armor, but the Daidoji flung himself backwards, crushing the tattooed man beneath their combined weight. Before he could regain his wind, the Crane had
>As one of the last samurai fell, unconscious, at her feet, she looked up into the steel mask of the Crane.
>Swing for swing, evenly matched, the two warriors parried and smashed their weapons, seeking an opening in their opponent's defense. As the last few samurai struggled to keep their footing in the heavy mud, O-Ushi and Uji struggled in a titanic match of strength and will. With a heavy thud, Uji's tetsubo tore away O-Ushi's hammer, casting both weapons outside the boundaries of the chalk circle. The two competitors stared for a moment, then Uji reached down to pick up one of the discarded weapons.
>Unwilling to let him have the advantage, O-Ushi charged. Her footing slipped on the wet muck beneath them, hurling her forward against the Crane. With a solid crack, their heads met and both samurai fell reeling to the ground.
>Above them stood a young Unicorn, his purple and gold armor filthy from the mud and rain, a tetsubo hanging precariously in his thin hand. No other warriors remained in the circle of the tournament, and no others were standing to accept the honor when Yakamo leapt from his chair.

>>52136916
>"Shugenja!" Yakamo howled, pointing at the unconscious O-Ushi. "Quickly! Before she awakes!"
>The Kuni scurried into the circle, gripping the samurai-ko's gauntlet and pulling her bruised hand from within. With a lunge, he grabbed the Unicorn's hand and held the two together, murmuring the ancient rites of marriage. Others converged on the scene, their hands waving in a spell-like pattern as the first sprinkled water upon the ground as a benediction.
>By the time O-Ushi awakened, it was over. The Kuni shugenja backed away as if her fluttering eyes were a striking snake, but the Unicorn knelt at her side. "Are you all right, Ushi-chan?" He murmured, brushing a strand of sweat and mud covered hair from her eyes.
>"Who are you?" O-Ushi roared, and her eyes focused blearily on Uji's oblivious face, half-ground into the earth.
>"I'm Shinjo Yasamura, my sweet lady. We are married." O-Ushi looked down at the red ribbons which encircled their wrists like the ropes of a prisoner. She tried to scramble to her feet, reaching for her lost hammer, but the sucking mud and her own disorientation made her fall to the ground again. Yasamura's doting smile shone down through the steady rain.
>Yakamo's hand reached out for O-Ushi's, and with a heave, the two men pulled her to her unsteady feet.
>"Married" she murmured, staring at Yakamo. With a flailing hand, she gestured toward the slender young man at her side. "How could you marry me to this"
>"This is your husband's father, Shinjo Yokatsu." Yakamo glowered at O-Ushi threateningly. "The Champion of the Unicorn Clan."

>>52130438
Don't drop Roll and Keep. Its a good system that has a lot of flexibility for adding new content. You want to write and sell splat nooks easier? Keep the old system. There's more people out there with D10's than there is with proprietary die.

>>52136920
>"A pleasure to meet you, O-Ushiko." Yokatsu stepped forward, his bowed legs making his body sway as he walked. "Congratulations on your wedding. My son is a fine warrior, fit to stand beside you on the wall. Of course, I have talked it over with your brother first," he smiled at Yakamo, "and we have decided that Yasamura shall take your name, as a gesture of goodwill between our families." Yokatsu's smile was genuine, and he looked at his young son with pride.
>As the two Champions began to negotiate the dowry, O-Ushi turned to stare at the grinning youth on her arm. "So, you thought to find yourself a slave today, Unicorn?" Her voice was low and venomous and Yasamura stepped away -to be stopped by the rope which bound them.
>"No no, not at all, Ushi-chan." His eyes were wide and surprised.
>"Then why did you come to fight for me. Was it because you thought to take the dowry back to your own kind?" O-Ushi growled.
>"Um, no." Yasamura smiled, and his limpid brown eyes met her hate with kindness. "Actually, we were just traveling through these lands. I didn't even know there was a tournament until I was here." O-Ushi's glare turned to confusion as the irony sank in.
>"You didn't know?"
>"Not at all. My father didn't tell me we were to be married. It must have slipped his mind" Yasamura sighed, and O-Ushi wondered what else tended to slip the Unicorn Champion's mind when his youngest son was involved.
>"So, tell me, my dear new love," Yasamura bowed with a courtier's grace. "What is the prize for the tournament? I'm rather confused about the whole thing"
>O-Ushi stared at him, her mouth hanging open, as Yakamo and Yokatsu returned. The gathering of the Clans was beginning to crowd around the young couple, offering their congratulations and numerous wedding gifts.

>>52136874
No, I mean running a game (or trying to make someone else's game into such a game) where if you're not acting like a veteran of the winter court at all times your character will be out of honor and forced to kill himself within the first two sessions.

>>52136909
If you are a lady, shouldn't be hard.
If you're a guy, good luck with that.

>>52136936
>"So, my sister, what do you think of Hida Yasamura?" Yakamo smiled in victory, seeing the confusion on his sister's face.
>O-Ushi glared at him, then bowed and stepped away, headed back to the Crab palace with the rest of the courtly throng. As she yanked on the brightly colored ribbons that bound her to the Unicorn, he tottered and quickly followed in step behind her. O-Ushi looked back over her shoulder at her brother and muttered, "I think he will make a good little wife."

>>52132124
Don't worry anon. These plebs have shit taste. My own j-steampunk setting and system is in the works for just that. I'll be posting things in a little while.

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>>52136957

Poor little Unicorn boy.

>>52136984
Guy actually ends up as a major Crab Clan hero, so it works out for him. Hot wife, famous in his new Clan, great warrior, lots of killing stuff, and nobody minds that he's an idiot because he fits right in.

>>52136976
I kind of feel the gunpowder ban is an essential part of the setting, but also that it'd be interesting to see steampunk rokugan where people find ways to just get around it and have guns anyway.

Like maybe they're all special nemuranai that somehow use magic to fire bullets instead. Perfectly legal! Gonna drive the lawmakers absolutely fucking nuts. What happens after that?

>>52136938
I see... Well, I may be going through a lot of characters before I get it right.

>>52137000
That's fucking glorious. The Crabs sound like straight ballers. It's also my astrological sign, so double points.

>>52136984
He was terrified to begin with but he quickly learned to fight on the Wall with such fury and zeal he impressed even the Crab bushi he fought with and eventually earned O-Ushi's love.

They were married for over thirty years, with O-Ushi eventually becoming Clan Champion due to her brother being childless.

Yasamura died in combat, when removing a swarm of spirits from the second largest city in Rokugan. A stray arrow struck him in the throat. This didn't deter him from issuing one final charge, still upright on horseback, before he bled out. This was the charge that broke the defenses of the spirits and allowed the Crab and Scorpion to retake the city.

He died as both a Crab and a Unicorn.

>>52137015
I feel it's an mostly extension of people largely being confused as to the role gunpowder had in medieval warfare, actually. Stuff like that was fairly common in fantasy settings made during the 90's; gunpowder exists but because "it ended the age of knights" or whatever it always was forbidden or kept secret or the setting was stuck in technological stasis.

The greater irony of L5R is that not only did samurai love the shit out of guns, the kenjutsu lessons that Wick and co talk about getting utilize moved only created AFTER the rise of gunpowder weapons and use a weapon created in response to the transfer of military power from horse archery to footmen.

>>52129979
>Much like the Greeks, the Japanese idealized Male-Male relationship, especially in the context of mentorship.

This was a middle ages development, likely due to the state of perpetual war the country was in. Early Japan was surprisingly egalitarian, had female samurai (this gradually became more of a silly ceremonial thing as they moved away from horse archery) and prostitute's were regarded as performing a benign and merciful public service

The increasing importance of family and politics in the Byzantine alliances and emnities of clans and houses reshaped gender attitudes as it became much more Important to have ready access to soldiers, aka male children, aka women needed to be kept at home and we're important peices in the political intruiges going on. You know, pretty much like European fuedal society.

>>52137078
Nah, it's an intentional m-muh kataners thing. Wick didn't want a setting where guys using THE SOUL OF THE SAMURAI wasn't a thing.

>>52130259
Disregard ccg give RPG

I want to see the core Kami descended clans, NO MANTIS, and id you want to bring in a political alliance of minor clans have them be led by the Tortoise, which is their actual fucking canonical role and job given to them by the Emperor. Mantis can be the minor clan alliance Bushi clan, but they should not be in charge.

>>52137045
If you're the type of guy who likes to play huge dudes who beat shit up, the Crab are the Clan for you.
If you are also the guy who likes to play tall but lean dudes who kill shit and scowl all the time and are pretty practical about how they do it, the Crab are still the Clan for you.
If you like your wizards to be fully armed and to wear really weird makeup, they are still the right Clan for you.
If you like to play the guy who flips out and kills everything in front of him in the middle of battle while screaming at the top of his lugs, they are STILL the right Clan for you.

>>52130438
>Getting rid of roll and keep
Don't
>Explaining the fall of of mantis
Don't. Just pretend they never existed. Full reboot. Ditch all of the previous story and go in clean or you'll always confuse people.

Threadly Reminder: Delete the Mantis. Yoritomo is die.

>>52137095
Of course, katanas were only really invented and used AFTER gun were a thing in Japan.
Really, the problem with ignoring the modern developments of samurai is that kind of everything people think of as being "samurai stuff", even in the actual county where it all took place, largely happened well after Guns had arrived in-country.

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>>52137131
>>52137137
You can just keep 'em around as pirates and mercenaries still, nothing special. A big Minor Clan, basically, nbd.
Hell, the Mantis wouldn't even need to "fall". The competent families could simply realize that they have literally nothing in common and just decide to fuck off from their supposed "Great Clan" anyway.

>>52137144
Basically, the Crab Clan are guys what kill shit good.
Nobody in the Empire even likes having them around because they're boorish and have shit manners and are uncouth and embarrassing, but EVERYONE admits that they kill shit pretty good.

>>52137167
Too useful to banish, too prickish to invite over. I love it.

>>52137142
Yep. And I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that guns are downplayed in a setting like this (like I said, I think the gunpowder ban is one of the more interesting parts, even if it was done for m-muh katanas reasons) but I want to see more people finding ways to push the envelope of the forced medieval stasis.

>>52130665
This, Crab are the best soldiers, full stop. They have the best heavy infantry and are the only clan to really understand siegecraft well

Lion have the best commanders and generals, but elements of their armies are old-fashioned and hide bound and they have the Matsu weighing them down like a screaming retarded chain.

Pheonix are noted for having the best magic troops and also being completely and utterly ruthless once they commit to the field.

Scorpion has the best dirty tricks and irregulars

Unicorn have the best cavalry

Dragon are a mixed bag, and are said to be very unpredictable. They usually don't fight outside their mountains and they exploit terrain well

Mantis
>Spit
Mantis have the best navy and archers

Crane are best at duels and political tricks, their iron warriors are surprisingly badass and pragmatic though.

>>52137188
There's outliers of course.
One family of Crab are warriors, but are also mostly are engineers and builders. They make REALLY good weapons, including swords that do not break. Ever.
Another are basically a family of diplomats and merchants; it turns out even the Crab need to have a functioning economy and nobody else really has any of the skills to run it, so that's these guys jobs.

>>52137142
This is why I desperately wish for a full reboot where White Stag never happened and Gaijin Pepper doesn't even exist, and it's the year like 300 or something. The longer the timeline goes the stupider the setting gets.

>>52130688
... So your saying Gaijin porn was like BLACKED porn today

Gaijin were their Mandingo

>>52137121
>>52137045
To put it simply, the Crab are a clan of swarthy, hardy samurai sworn to protect the Wall that separates the Shadowlands from Rokugan. The existence of the clan is devoted to an unending fight against corrupted madmen and the oni that reign over them that constantly try to invade from the Shadowlands. As such, they're tough and devoted to duty above all else, at the risk of being rather poor when it comes to traditional etiquette.

Their friends are:
>Unicorn Clan, as the Unicorn samurai returned to Rokugan after centuries of exile and are treated like outsiders in traditional Rokugan courts. Unicorn and Crab samurai find solidarity in being the black sheep of Rokugan.
>Mantis Clan, as the gruff sailors of the Mantis Clan generally get along well with the rowdy Wall warriors of the Crab Clan. Combine this with a respect for the martial ability of the Mantis and they get along nicely.

Their foe:
>Crane Clan. Generally, Crane samurai are the masters of etiquette and arrogance and use their prowess in the courts to come off as absolutely superior. The Crane's habit of putting court intrigue before military might or actually fighting for Rokugan infuriates the Crab Clan to no end and you'll frequently find them warring with each other.

So if you're looking for an excuse to play a large, brawny samurai looks to bash heads in with a tetsubo and not give a shit about etiquette, just play a Crab.
Or a Mantis, although you'll probably need to swap the tetsubo for kama and you're probably a little shorter, too.

>>52137221
>Lion have the best commanders and generals, but elements of their armies are old-fashioned and hide bound and they have the Matsu weighing them down like a screaming retarded chain.

Oh god, this makes me want to tell a story I have from one of my games.

>>52137015

Hehe, in our setting, gunpowder weapons are entirely legal but still used only by militias (with a few exceptions like cannons, mortars, and rockets) because simple bullets can't do much with fantasy samurai and fucking over the ashigaru even more doesn't worth the investment. The teppo is widely considered a dead-end weapon technology, and nobody bothers with guns as the last ones who tried got their camp blown into the sky by their very own gunpowder cache (fuck ninjas btw).

>>52137259
Teppo doesn't replace the yari. Teppo replaces the yumi.

Personally the biggest things I want from the RPG reboot are:

1) Keep R&K
2) Bring back the minor clans, especially the ones absorbed into the Mantis.

>>52137253
Well go on then, we had the O-Ushi story.

>>52137259
Ninjas don't exist
>>52137267
Teppo didn't replace Yuki which was still useful for arcing fire and horse archery. Teppo was it's main thing and combined with fortifications and Spears killed the cavalry dominance

>>52137277
I loved the Wasp.
Seriously, bounty hunting samurai archers FOR JUSTICE? Too awesome.
Pairing them with the Clsn of just barely above habitual criminal pirates made no sense.

>>52137253
So why the fuck ain'tcha?

>>52137240
I'm pretty sold on the Crab Clan, sounds way too fun and funny to pass up.

Just to find a game...

Thanks everyone for giving me the heads up.

>>52137290
I'm the one who occasionally shows up to bitch that RYOSEI'S CHOICE MEANT NOTHING

Is there any homebrew regarding the minor clans without bushi schools? I would really be interested in a Kitsune Bushi or a Moshi Bushi that isn't a shitty 1 rank alt path and be otherwise forced into Yoritomo or Ronin.

>>52137331
Not unless you homebrew or your GM lets you take another minor clan school free (or at a reduced advantage cost).

>>52137351
Damn. I remember there was that huge minor clan homebrew doc and I was hoping some of the real clans got similar love.

>>52137301
Crab Clan's a good newbie-friendly clan to start with.

Other new friendly clans would be Unicorn and Mantis. They're all outsiders in the Courts who have good excuses to not act like 'real' samurai. The Unicorn are naive semi-gaijin, the Crab are grumbling hermits used to a tough life on the Wall and the Mantis are over-ambitious corsairs used to sea-faring life.

What I recommend you don't jump into to start with is Crane, Scorpion or Phoenix. All of them require a fair deal of setting knowledge to play properly. The Crane have their intricate etiquette, the Scorpion have their almost paradoxical duty and the Phoenix require a great deal of knowledge about the magic system of the setting.

>>52137278, >>52137293
Okay, so I'm super proud of this because it's like the only time EVER in an L5R game I got to pull off a great one-liner.
My PC was an Ikoma Lion's Shadow who was like something between a competent Adjutent for a general and warrior-diplomat.

The Lion Army I was serving in was lining up to fight a Crane force and the Matsu as usual were frothing at the mouth to kill some Cranes. The actual adventure was largely me doing social stuff in the camp before the battle trying to stop them from jumping the gun and ruining the entire order of battle just because a Kakita sent them a haiku calling them pussies or whatever.
Finally after a lot of diplomacy the Matsu commander, who was one of those Lion's Pride warriors who fought alongside actual lions was meeting with us in the command group as the troops lined up and the battle was ready to begin.

I compliment her lioness and she goes off on a speech that the GM had clearly prepared.
>Matsu Taisho: "The lionesses are our greatest allies. They are fierce, proud, noble, and barely kept on the edge of ferocious attack so they might slay our enemies."
>Me: "Will many survive the battle?"
>Matsu Taisho: "Sadly, most during the initial charge will not. Their battle-fury makes them likely to imperil themselves, and we must leash them before battle, and hopefully use our greater strategy to exploit the holes their berserk fury has made."
>Me: "Yes, I know a bit about it. Oh, by the way; your forces can charge now."

It actually took a second for it to sink for my group.

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>>52137358
I actually look up fanmade shit online for Minor Clan Bushi, since we know they HAVE them at least.
I remember one that had stuff like "Kitsune Rangers" for the Fox Clan for example.

>>52137416
Crane should've just sent in a duelist and challenged the Matsu general, under the stipulation that they fuck off if the Crane win the duel.

>KAKITA!

>>52137488
They did, as per operating standard.
One of my guy's jobs was to make sure that the Matsu DIDN'T do it for once.

>>52137483
That might be older versions and not homebrew.

>>52137416
It must be way too early for me, because I didn't get it.

>>52137505
Holy shit, I was just kidding and referencing a 2013-2014 meme.

There's nothing worse than a Kakita duelist who thinks that they can Iaijutsu every problem away.

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>>52137515
It's okay Matsu-san, you're not here to think. You are here to die gloriously for your lord.

>>52137515
The Matsu commander basically pointed out that while the lions will be fierce and kill shit they had to be really tightly controlled to be useful to them, and further even though they'll kill a lot of enemies and die early on in the fight and it'll be up to smarter people to exploit the gaps they made.
His PC then basically in one sentence drew a comparison between the Matsu and the lions they hang out with; proud, noble, barely controlled, won't to die pointlessly and gloriously and messily early on in the battle and leaving it to people who could actually think to actually do the job of winning it because the Matsu sure as hell weren't going to.

He then told them it was okay to charge.

My astrological sign is the Libra, what Clan do I be?

>>52137554
ooooh, haha. Shit, that's actually pretty good. Did you get in trouble for the crack anon?

>>52137555
If your GM lets you play an Imperial family, Otomo.

Otherwise, the closest you can probably get is Crane.

>>52137592
Actually, no. The GM was clearly about to narrate the glorious charge into battle when my remark interrupted him, paused and started smiling before the group started to laugh.
He decided that the analogy was a bit too subtle for the Matsu taisho and she basically was pretty happy to just charge right into battle already.

My character had been about the dry humor and quiet sarcasm pretty much the whole game until I retired him, but that particular scene had the BEST timing of anything I'd done in L5R.

>>52137528
I know. Apparently the plot point was designed by the GM to A: give me another thing to work for and B: show how easily tricked the Matsu were once you pricked their pride.
The Kakita actually GOT that duel, and I sent him a message saying it was accepted, except the guy going was a different person (one of the PC's) who was there as the commander's stand-in because "she was indisposed making plans for the battle".

Best of all, the other PC won that duel...sorta.

Does /L5RG/ have a general pasta with links to the books?

>>52137679
How do you "sort of" win a duel?

>>52137331
Minor clans only have one school for a reason. They don't have enough the resources to cultivate more than one. This is why Minor clans are either servants of major ones or band together

>>52137679
'Sort of?'

A Kakita would rather lose a duel than 'sort of' win it. So 'sort of' losing the duel most have provoked one hell of a shitstorm.

>>52137267

It does neither here. Hand cannons and fire lances are used by peasant militias to volleyfire bandits/ogres/whatever attacking their villages. I mean, a peasant with a hand cannon is better off that one with a bow, nobody in the setting argues about that.

Other than that, you have snipers and artillery, as well as a great deal of explosive fuckery like landmines. But actual squadrons armed with guns? Nah, they are useless unless you really want to kill the enemy ashigaru (but you have more readily available and less unwieldy tools for that).

>>52137700
But that's stupid. What were the Moshi yojimbo doing the entire time they weren't part of the Mantis?

>>52137685
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AJzcaMoaAKE8%5FAo&id=C15898E4CDDAB251%21141&cid=C15898E4CDDAB251

Here you go.

Start with the Core Rules, then the Emerald Empires, then the Great Clans. After that point, it's up to you.

>>52137697
The Kakita Duelist was a high-grade badass and though the PC definitely had some serious dueling chops he was kinda on a heavy disadvantage (of course), so when they the Kakita struck first and won.
Meanwhile the PC hit, survived the initial attack, and then blew the rest of his Void jacking damage through the roof and took out the the Kakita with his return strike, actually severing most of the muscles in his dominant arm's shoulder, probably crippling him for life, certainly rendering him incapable of fighting in the battle the next day.
The PC then honorable conceded that the Kakita's technique was by far superior in accuracy and skill, and therefore he had won the duel and the PC had lost.

So he lost, technically, but he also won.

>>52137707
Read >>52137752 for explanation.

>>52137731
Getting by on skills, the clan trading favors with clans that have Bushi schools, and in general being a bunch of reclusive sun worshippers that didn't want no trabble.

>>52137737
Sweet! I have some reading to do.

>>52137752
>>52137752
Still, the Doji must've been hollering and tearing their pretty white hair out over how dishonorable it is to still partake in the battle after 'losing' the duel.

>>52137752
Hah! That's pretty good actually.

>>52137752
So the PC completely invalidated the ENTIRE BASIS of the Kakita school of dueling, then in an act of humility conceded the duel anyway?
Holy shit, did the Duelist suffer from a rage induced stroke then and there?

>>52137528
>>52137505
>>52137679
It's canon that's how the Crane handle a lot of lion armies actually, not just a meme

>>52137752
But you normally can only spend a single Void/round and even then you can specifically only spend a single Void when dealing damage with a katana (3e onwards, in 1e and 2e no void for damage period). Even shit like old school Shiba Bushi didn't let you spend multiple Void on damage, as damage is not "taking an action" it is the result of taking an action.

>>52137788, >>52137790
Their strike was nearly instantaneous actually, just the Kakita having his sword out a fraction faster so he hit first. So technically it was all aboveboard; that sorta thing happens all the time, it just usually doesn't result in such horrible injuries on the part of the Duelists.
As it so happens our representative had a lot more Earth and Strength of the Earth, so he could walk it off. The Kakita, not so much.
The guy playing the PC said he's sized up the Kakita and pointed out he didn't think he could win clean.

In-character I actually had my guy point out;
>"So? I didn't think it WOULD be clean. It's okay if the Kakita wins as long as it hurts a lot when he does it."

>>52137752
>Attacking your opponent in a not-to-death duel after you have been hit

That's some fuckin' shramefur dispray.

>>52137752
>>52137788
>>52137814
That's hilarious, and makes sense. You both swing at the same time, the Kakita hits you, but you can't just STOP a committed swing. It's just 'poor form' to fucking mutilate on the follow stroke.

>>52137814
Yuuuup. It was pretty satisfying.
>>52137834
By "the rest" of his Void I meant his final Void point; he was down to the last one.

>>52137788
Pretty much this. The entire political machine would come down on the Lion. Even the Scorpion would be in on it. Not to mention the utter lack of honor in ignoring the results of the duel you agreed to decide the battle. Way to dishonor an entire army.

How many Lion fell on their swords afterwords?

>>52137823
Doesn't mean there isn't still a meme about asshole Kakita duelists.

>see a bangin' bushi bitch
>challenge her to duel, she's betrothed to me if she loses
>dishonor on her, her family and her family cow if she refuses
>a smoking hot wife if she accepts and loses the duel

KAKITA!

>>52137416
>>52137554
>>52137626
>>52137835
I'm just imagining this aide de camp who, despite being china-japanese, is somehow TERRIBLY british

>>52137889
Crane'd

>>52137142
In Japan, yes.
In Rokugan, katanas were invented at the dawn of the empire by a series of divinely inspired warriors basing their swords off of the sword used by the literal god-emperor. Because Rokugan is not Japan.

>>52137889
Seems like a bad idea. The wife could just kill herself out of disgust after the marriage and how will that reflect on the Kakita?

>>52137868
I call foul, "blew the rest of his Void" seriously implies he spent multiple Void on the damage roll. You're only backing off because you've been called on it.

This sounds like another shitty "HURR DURR CRANE SUK CUZ DEY ELVES" /tg/ story. Only this time it is the Lion shitting on them instead the more memetic Crab tetsubo duelist.

>>52137848
Hey, the Kakita WOULD have done it to the death if it was a Matsu and was TRYING to take out the PC.
>>52137853
The poor form part was admitted by the PC. He actually decided to take the Honor hit, which actually ended up being an Honor GAIN because he allowed himself to loose Face to serve his Lord.
>>52137888
None.
The duel wasn't "Duel me and if you loose then go home", because no army would EVER agree to that shit unless they were an idiot. A Matsu.
It was a "let's have a gentlemanly fight before the real fight", which which would naturally would have resulted in the commander's death, which would have ruined any of the strategy we set up as we'd have an inexperienced underling (her sister) taking her place and basically would make the Matsu even MORE useless because they'd charge into battle before we were ready.

So instead the letter I sent back basically just said;
>"We can duel, even to the death if you want, but it's not for the battle. We're doing it to see who's better."

The Kakita basically assumed that the Matsu would come herself.

>>52137930
>smoking hot samurai waifu is depressed, might be thinking about killing herself
>not while a bun i've put in her oven is still cooking
>challenge that bitch to a duel, demand that she refrains from suicide for as long as I am alive if I win
>dishonor on her and her family if she refuses the duel or commits sudoku anyway

KAKITA!

>>52137930
Not to mention marriage in Rokugan is pretty much a political/economic affair. You marry who you're Lord tells you to marry. Most samurai don't have a huge amount of say in the matter. If they are lucky they might get a "date" with a handful of spousal candidates and whichever one they hit it off with best is who they marry.

>>52137974
>>dishonor on her and her family if she refuses the duel or commits sudoku anyway

This is the problem. Once you're married, she is YOUR family. She doesn't exist to her former family. If she does anything dishonorable, it's on you and your now shared lord.

>>52137940
Hey, it's on you dude.
We all told him to spend it on the attack so he could win, because actually I think he COULD have with if he'd spent it on attack because the attack roll was close enough, but he decided he really hated the Crane guy and would like to kill him instead, though I think he had the "cripple but accept defeat" thing planned out.

>>52137965
But you're a dishonorable coward and your name will ruined by the Doji if you dare refuse a duel from a Kakita duelist!

>>52137965
Then why even have the duel? "For funsies" is not a valid option. It is flat out a dishonorable waste of a samurai's life, especially on the eve a battle where said samurai's life could mean victory or defeat. All involved should have thrown themselves on their swords.

>>52137997
She still exists to her former Family and bloodline, but nothing she does reflects onto them or visa versa.

>>52138009
We didn't refuse the duel. We accepted it. His fault his wording on the challenge was shit; it just said he wanted to challenge the enemy commanders, which of course got sent to the Matsu camp first, in what I am sure is a complete coincidence.
Technically the PC was one of the commanders.

>>52137997
>wife is thinking of doing dishonorable shit that reflects poorly on you and your family
>duel one of her parents, if one of them loses, they accept any dishonor that she commits and don't let it stain your family name
>if the parent refuses, dishonor on their family
>if the parent loses, you've successfully redirected all dishonor committed by your rebellious waifu back to her family

KAKITA!

By the way, guy who wanted to play a Crab, this shit is exactly what I'm talking about when I'm discussing the problems with the etiquette system.

>>52138012
The Kakita's keikaku was to goad the notoriously blinded by honor Matsu commander to accept the challenge, lose the duel and thus be tied up recovering instead of effectively leading their troops in battle
The PC's took advantage of the loose wording of the challenge (an attempt to deflect the Kakita's true intentions) and sent someone less vital to the army's actual strategy

>>52138012
You say that, but the "challenge to a duel and we fight the battle anyway" scenario is literally in the original core book's fiction bits, between a Lion and Crane army no less.
The objective isn't to make the other army LEAVE and neither was it in that "very first book for setting ever released" fiction; the objective is to leave the army effectively headless and without a leader which makes them REALLY easy to kill, especially when a majority of their numbers are Matsu.

Basically, you're thinking like the Matsu that would have lost the battle.

>>52138051
That its completely arbitrary yet seems to also consistently favour the Crane to an insane degree?
Or that its extremely easy to get caught up in arguments about what was said, what was meant, what was implied and what was actually important?

>>52138066
Not him, but isn't that still kinda..shady?
It's intercepting a message, using a proxy, and (I'm guessing) not even telling the message's original intended recipient and then getting your Duelist to fuck up a major battlefield asset....

>>52138083
Of course it favors the Crane, the Crane's founder literally wrote the book on it.

>>52138089
Yeah.
It's called being an Ikoma Lion's Shadow. My NPC General said, and I quote;
>"Please go solve this. I don't care how."
End quote.
So I lost some Honor, solved it and we won.

>>52138083

Not him, but it is the second.

>>52138083
The latter. The hate-on for the Crane (and the belief, which I've never actually seen happen in any game that I've played, that people playing Crane just hurr durr duel their way out of everything all the time) is irritating but not the real problem.

>>52138051
Yeah, the Etiquette favors the Clan who's entire niche is Etiquette.
One of the issues of the setting is that in most cases most of the inter-Clan feuds wouldn't work because as soon as the feud reaches a level where the Clan performs well they'd win 99% of the time and their foes could quite easily be removed from the field forever, and yet this never actually happens.

>>52138168
Ikoma guy here.
I actually usually play Crane myself. I was just on a kick of trying new things since I realized I was subconsciously pigeonholing myself into a role without ever seeing if I liked any others.

>>52138168
The hate-on for the Crane is because they are Elves of the setting, pretty, artistic, and snobby. /tg/ hates that shit and rotates on what it latches onto, for a long time it was the Crab, briefly it was Mantis, and now it is mostly Minor Clans.

>>52138083
>>52138111
>>52138100
>Oniisama! Oniisama!
What is it, Doji-san?
>Look at these rules I wrote for how people should act in court, Oniisama!
But it's over a thousand pages long, Doji-san.
>Just read the first few pages! I promise it's sensible! Pleeease, Oniisama?
Fine, fine. Have it your way, Doji-san. It doesn't seem too silly. From now on, our courts will follow these rules.
>JUST ACCORDING TO KEIKAKU.

>>52138186
Because you've bought into the assumption that having clan members who are good at a thing means that the clan obliterates everyone else in that field.
Every Clan has diplomats and courtiers who are competent. They can all compete in court and can all succeed.
Even the non-militant clans have soldiers who are capable of holding their own. The Crane get invaded by the Crab and Lion all the time, and the Daidoji hold things down long enough for the courtiers to sort it even though the Crane are "bad" at military.

>>52137889
That only happens when it's disregarded that lords technically are supposed to give permission for duels and anyone who goes around challenging Willy Billy, you'll get your shit slapped, possibly by your own clan/lord

>>52138224
A Yasuki merchant will out-barter a Doji courtier, a Bayushi courtier will deceive or seduce a Doji courtier into doing what they please, an Asako loremaster has a far greater recollection of history than a Doji courtier and so on.

But when in court, when behaving according to Doji-written etiquette, the Doji courtier rules.

>>52138224
Actually for awhile with our group Daidoji and their badassery and willingness to employ cheap shots and delaying tactics to win was a small meme for us.
We'd keep talking about how whenever we passed through places where the Daidoji had been we'd check for pit traps everywhere, because we KNOW they'd left them behind somewhere!

>>52138211
>the entire HONOR! system of Rokugan got EULA'd into existence
Honestly, I can absolutely believe that
Especially the suggestion that literally no-one ever has read the whole set of rules

>>52138252
Everyone can do Etiquette. That's why it's a skill.
Doji Techniques are geared towards making friends, which they are good at doing.

>tfw all this Kakita
>tfw one my favorite characters in another system are a Duelist/Artisan

>>52138266
>Lion Diplomat: "It seems we are at an impasse."
>Scorpion Diplomat: "Indeed."
>Crane Diplomat: "That means I win."
>Lion: "Wait what?"
>Crane: "In the events of any ties, Crane always wins. Stays right here."
>Scorpion: "Wait a minute, your Clan isn't even involved in the dispute, you're just a mediator!"
>Crane: "I know. It still applies. It says right here."

>>52138266
The Crane and Scorpion live and die by that EULA. They both can quote it chapter and verse.

Also technically the HONOR! system was written by Akodo in Leadership. The Crane mostly wrote the courtly rules and with the Scorpion the rules of JUSTICE!.

>>52138296
Not just making friends. They've also got lots of bonuses to using that Etiquette skill.

I'm not saying they're the only ones capable of Etiquette, just that they're the indisputable masters of it.

>>52138266
I still maintain Hantei set up the whole clan system and allowed it's batshit rules specifically to defang them and keep any clan from ever being able to dominate the other without getting gangfucked by the others

>L5R thread actually somewhat active

What fucking maho sorcery is this

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>>52138312
Doesn't mean that the Crane haven't pounced on it and laid claim to it as their own.

>>52138365
According to Imperial Histories the development of much of Rokugan happened a LOT slower then the Clans think, and a lot of it wasn't actually "set in stone" by the Great Kami at all but created as a result of political situations after their deaths.

>>52138385
people are pumped about Mantis finally being kill. two bug clans down, just one to go.

>>52138312
It was like this:
>Akodo wrote HONOR!
>Doji sperged out about Akodo doing such a cool thing, so she started to work on the EULA
>Akodo died
>Doji named her EULA to HONOR!
>People started to shit all over Akodo's original writing because Doji pushing her stuff on all fronts

Doji outliving the other Kami was a mistake.

>>52138404
All it means is that Mantis will get an entire expansion devoted to them.

Spider too.

>>52137909
Oh, is that so?
http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Tachi

>>52138329
They get a single free raise if they maintain a high honor. Other courtiers get bonuses to Courtier, Sincerity, and sometimes even Etiquette.
All Etiquette by itself does is defend yourself from problems. Bonuses to Courtier and Sincerity are more important if you want to influence others, and the Doji don't have the absolute best bonus to those. They have a small, general bonus.

>>52138404
Your better not br talking shit about my centipede waifu

>>52138433
Moshi, more like shit. End yourself, bug clanner.

>>52138431
See >>52138388.

>>52138451
See the techniques of every other courtier.

>>52138429
Wait, the Rokugani DID invent the Tachi-style sword first like in Japan.
Well shit.

>>52138456
No other courtier school gets a technique that says 'my word is synonymous with honor and etiquette, going against my word is dishonorable because as a scion of Doji, I am the pinnacle of honor.'

>>52138429
Yes, it is. The tachi in rokugan is a curved sword based on the swords of Hantei and Kakita, and the advances that led to true katana, while fuzzy, are generally thought to come from the Kenku, who were using folded steel before the Kami even fell.

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R8 my background/why the fuck is your samurai here explaination for ny Lion bushi

>A student of War is a student of history. A student of history is a student of context. Through context, we gain understanding of the world around us, the how and why. Through understanding, we gain the power to shape events. Therefore, a Student of War is a student of context. To fight a battle, you must know it first.

This is the wisdom of the School of the Akodo Bushi, producers of the finest Warrior-Generals in Rokugan, pride of the mightiest and most militant great clan in Rokugan, The Lion - right hand of the Emperor. A Lion has always led the Imperial Legions of the Emperor, and that Lion has always been an Akodo. Though politics may shift and sway, though favor may wax and wane, when the sun sets the Emperor trusts their swords in the hands of the Akodo Bushi.

Cont

>>52138499
>A new, tumultuous era has come upon Rokugan, and the stakes have never been higher. The shape of the political climate is in flux, and the armies of darkness are ever at the door. Into these uncertain times the Akodo are thrust, and they turn to the long and glorious history of their clan for answers. But where history may sometimes fail them, a good general must always look outwards for information. Such is the decree of Akodo Junko's lord and Daimyo. For a mission of importance, several of the Lions youngest and freshest minds were selected. Their task, to journey the width and breadth of Rokugan, recording all they could about the dangers that now face it, and the battles it fights. They are to study both the enemies and allies of the Lion, discern how they fight, how they think, what they believe, and record their observations in journals and regular communication to be sent back to the clan for the analysis of the Lion's great champions and leaders. Selected not for elite status or skill, but because they were raw and could be spared, it represents for each of the young scouts and opportunity to prove themselves to their families and their lords that they are worthy of the names they carry and the mon emblazoned upon their armor. And should they win honor, glory, and fame for themselves and the Lion along the way? All the better.

Basically her job is to travel around and not-spy on the other clans to gather info about how they fight and wage wage at for Akodos big book of war,

>>52138487
Other courtier schools have +5k0 bonuses that don't require a contested roll to pull off. They mostly just require circumstances that can be arranged without rolls.
That is a good technique, but all it really is is using double-think and rules lawyering to browbeat someone with the big book of etiquette. A lot of other courtiers will get extra bonuses to resist this contested roll.

>>52138544
Yasuki get +5k0 to social rolls against people they've sold stuff to.
Kitsuki can get +5k0 if they know someone is lying to them, when trying to get the liar to inadvertently give away some of what they know.
Yoritomo get +5k0 to to intimidation and resisting intimidation, temptation and fear, as befits the type of courtier that's essentially Yakuza.
Asako get +5k0 to recalling lore and history.
Bayushi get +5k0 to shattering the reputation of someone if they already have blackmail against that person.

Those are all related to their specialized areas, just like the specialized area of the Doji is in being a master of the court and making themselves look like the embodiment of honor and etiquette while they are at court.

All courtiers are useful and all courtiers are good. But the Doji courtier is the best courtier at doing traditional courtier things in court.

>>52138499
>>52138506
Didn't Sun Tao do this once too?

>>52138667
That is exactly what Sun Tao did. A bushi being Sun Tao II: Akodo Boogaloo isn't a terrible concept. It is much better than some of the other shit I've seen over the years, like Iron Chef Mirumoto who fights with the same knives that he uses to prepare meals and gets offended when everyone refuses his meals.

>>52138626
The Doji doesn't actually get any kind of bonus to that contested roll. The free raise doesn't help the roll, meaning they have to go up against the other person's etiquette, and if everything else is equal, they have no edge from Techniques.
For example, and Asako Loremaster blows them the fuck out.
A rank 4 Doji trying to use that technique on a rank 4 Asako has to contend with a guy who has +5k1 (3k1 from a Void point and +2k0 from observation) who then gets to reroll using Intelligence if he somehow loses.

The Doji, meanwhile, gets a free raise (Which has no application on the contested roll itself by RAW, only the potential results), and we'll assume a +1k1 from Void because it's only fair.
So that's the Doji's Courtier(Manipulation)/Awareness +1k1 VS the Asako's Etiquette(Courtesy)/Awareness +5k1; reroll with Intelligence if failed. Both contestants have the emphasis as part of their basic school skills.
Good luck with that, Doji-san.

>>52138717
Speaking of Dragons that did that; apparently Masamune Date would frequently cook for his guests himself as one of his many weird hobbies, which was rather strange for a daimyo of his rank to do.
He wasn't bad at it either, supposedly.

>>52138772
Someone in Rokugan could do that. A lot of samurai look down on doing menial tasks, but it's easy to shut them up with quotes from Akodo and the Tao. "Something something a proper samurai has his servant's chores done before they even wake up."

>>52138772
It was less that he wanted to be Iron Chef Mirumoto and more that the player refused to separate the guy's artistic tools and his killing tools than anything. He (the player) had no concept of spiritual cleanliness and refused to even consider otherwise.

>>52138875
We had one player that had written down pretty much every saying Shinsei had said, ever. His Mirumoto would habitually quote it through every session.

>>52138717
That's retarded. Not even solely with regards to spiritual cleanliness, also like...normal hygiene. Also really inefficient, cleavers and filleting knifes make for terrible weapons.

>>52138977
Especially when you consider that like 90% of what you'll be fighting in L5R is demons and people.

>>52138949
Is there a list somewhere
>>52138667
>>52138717
I didn't realize that, very fitting considering she's a war dork with strategist and leader advantages and lore: war

>>52138764
Keep in mind, this isn't an argument about what clan has the best courtier, as it's always been established that each courtier has a different focus.

What I am trying to argue is that the Doji courtier is the type of courtier that focuses the most on traditional court intrigue. Yes, you do have courtier types like the Asako Loremaster which are unlikely to be hindered by the use of their ability. That doesn't mean that the Doji Courtier's ability ceases to exist.

The Doji Courtier is the courtier most focused on the court, just as the Crane Clan is the clan most focused on the court. They excel at traditional courtly interactions and that is where they thrive. They have abilities based on this that other clans lack.

I feel like I'm saying this for the fourth or maybe fifth time but the Doji Courtier is not the best courtier, there is no best courtier. But their area of expertise and where they thrive is in the court, which is an area of expertise that no other sort of courtier focuses on to the same extent.

WHICH IS YOUR FAVORITE MINOR CLAN AND WHY?

HARD MODE: NO BITCHING ABOUT THE MANTIS

>>52139328
FOX CLAN

FUCK HARD MODE, RYOSEI'S CHOOOOOOIIIIIIIICEEEEEE

On the topic of marriage, how often does inter-clan marriage occur?

>>52139382
Enough that it's by no means rare, but not enough that it's terribly common.

>>52139382
Usually at the higher levels, when forging bonds between clans. Also has a chance of occurring whenever clans interact at the lower levels too, such as after Winter Court.

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>>52139328
Hare, basically the only Minor Clan I ever thought made sense and fulfills a unique niche rather than just being a special snowflake version of a great clan school.

>>52139398
>>52139436
So the average samurai marries within their own clan? Does that mean that they'll marry either with another family in the clan or with their own family, I'm assuming here that within families there are very few people actually related to one another.