Magical Girl Games

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Awesome magic science, friendship lasers and copious amounts of hotblood. (Nanoha best Mahou Shoujo)

>>52124358
I actually haven't seen Nanoha, how does the science work?

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When the little girls grow up and become operators.

>>52124543

They don't go into detail, but after its beginnings as a relatively ordinary magical girl show (although I'd recommend the movie over the original series, it tells the same story way better with excellent fight scenes) it takes a rather bizarre diversion into the existence of the Time Space Administration Bureau, who are basically magitech starfleet with a military of magical girls and an entire magic based civilisation.

An interesting power them would be tarot, but one that actually follows what the cards mean when used for divination instead of being a fancy aesthetic.

>>52124543
Not a lot of info is given but basically magitech with magical formulas with the magical weapons as casting items that the MGs channel magic through so they can cast the magic for them. There's also interdimensional travel but that's more or less glossed over.

>>52124358
Nice to see you're still around Nanohafag

>>52124681

Well, we get a decent amount on how devices themselves work. Magic is incredibly mathematically intensive, casting even simple spells takes a lot of work and effort. Device assisted casting basically automates a huge part of the casting procedure, the mage only needing to define the basic parameters (or, with precoded spells, just trigger it) for the device to run the process and cast the spell.

>>52124722
This is what I really loved about Nanoha. Magic is more or less equal to math and physics and only super smart people can cast magic (i.e. do math in their head) all on their own so they have devices help them do it. They just start the program/spell by saying the name of it or the incantation then the device does the rest. The other styles of magic (Belkan vs. Midchilda) just adds on to this as well.

>>52124596
Instantly interested.

>>52124756

Although it's worth noting that there's still a lot to learn as part of being a mage. An intelligent device can almost fight for you, as shown when Nanoha first acquires Raising Heart, but a greater understanding of and ability with magic, as well as developing your combat skills, makes you significantly stronger.

>>52124781
Well it's said in StrikerS that Nanoha is incredibly gifted with magic so she has more or less a leg up in that regard (same with Fate). But yes, more or less the best thing you can do to get stronger as a mage is practice and use magic.

>>52124811

Fate and Nanoha's innate talent is mostly in terms of their strong linker cores, which make them able to cast a lot of powerful magic. What I really love is that the show shows you in detail just how much hard work both of them put in to refine that talent into supreme ability.

From the simple stuff early on with Nanoha learning how to precisely control her magical bullets, obviously expending a lot of effort to master what might seem like a niche skill (which pays off in so many ways), to the later events in StrikerS when it's revealed she pushed herself to the point of near death in the name of getting stronger and protecting people.

Usually 'Oh they're so talented!' is annoying because it just lets the main character be super strong without any work, and I love how the Nanoha franchise utterly subverted that. Heck, it even pays off beautifully in Nanoha's eventual role within the TSAB, her official job, not being some sort of super ace fighter or grand propaganda icon... But a part of the training division, helping equip others with the same skills that served her so well.

>>52124616
This. Though how many people can you findthat actually know/have any interest in that shit.

>>52124340
>what sort of things would actually get you interested in it?
Variety.
It's fine to have Precures punching shit to death and Nanoha lazoring shit to death, but it'd be great to have both.

>>52124616
There's an anime about that running right this season.

>>52125218
>There's an anime about that running right this season.
Which?

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>>52125218

Being fair, Nanoha also has more than its fair share of punchwizards. Heck, the latest iteration of the franchise is a martial arts manga.

Pic related, punchmage from our ongoing Nanoha game.

>>52125267
Urara Meirochou

>>52125274
punchmagicalgrills are best magical grills

>>52124596
I want that.

>>52125280
Nigga that ain't mahou shoujo that's CGDCT

>>52125745
Still, plenty of tarot.

Or if you want tarot megucas you can watch Genei wo Kakeru Taiyou or something like that.

>>52125274
I haven't ever been into Nanoha, how martial arts are we talking about? Do I need to read all the previous shit to jump on?

>>52126030
>how martial arts
Plenty. Punching, kicking, different styles, the whole shebang.

>Do I need all the previous shit
You are lucky, as Strike requires minimal knowledge about who the characters are.

>>52126030

ViViD and ViViD Strike are pretty self contained, with mostly a new cast of characters. I'd still recommend watching the Nanoha movies though, they're really great shortened versions of the stories with amazing action scenes.

Curiously, both movies also exist in-universe as movies. There are in character commentary tracks of the 'real' characters talking about the movies from an in universe perspective. They're all technically canon, but the series are what 'actually' happened while the movies are basically propaganda pieces created by the TSAB.

It's kinda odd but fun. The characters we play in the Nanoha game I'm currently have actually seen both of the Nanoha films, in universe.

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>>52124340
1. The magical girls are the reincarnations of famous heroes such as Gilgamesh, Enkidu, Herakles, and Karna.

2. The magical girls are actual magic users, practicing the arts of sorcery to defeat their enemies.

3. The magical girls are involved in a shadow urban war, go gritty and deconstructioney. Probably use Princess: The Hopeful, and lots of guns.

4. The campaign is an ultra-hammy homage to Super Friends and Sailor Moon, where the magical girls are public personas fighting ridiculous enemies in broad daylight and for some reason no one ever dies. At some point Sailor Mercury gives a rousing song of heroism.

5. The magical girls are famous characters from World War 2, doing battle against the Axis which is led by Loli Hitler.

>>52124340
If you've read Glory, the comic book by Joe Keatinge, I'd like something sort of like that.

If a tarot theme was used for the villains, what would be a fitting theme for the heroes? No Upside/downside up version of the cards.

>>52126254
Horoscopes come to mind first.

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>>52126254
Hermeticism!

The girls are visited by the Thrice-Great Hermes Trismegistus who gives each of them one of the three pieces of his Thrice-Great philosophy!

Astrology, with mastery of the stars, future, divination, and energy attacks.

Theurgy, with the power to summon spirits, elementals, demons, and djinn!

Alchemy, with the power of transmutation and the manipulation of matter!

In addition to these powers, he also teaches them the lost arts of Hermetic magic, giving them wizard powers.

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>>52126340
Also he sticks around and acts as the team's Zordon.

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>>52124340
The magical girls are actually witches who are firefighters in medieval europe who are chased after by a quirky 'the bonnes' inspired inquisition team who try to capture them while they save witches and put out out of control fires.

How would you succesfully fuse super sentai with maho shojo?

>>52127010
Precure.

>>52126135
Princess: The Hopeful is pretty bad. I'd try Wild Talents.

>>52124340
Any power ability where you get to use fuzzy logic / X as concept is always good.

I've got one character who's based around memory; they now can't be percieved by normal people because she is constantly wiping herself from history and is capable of changing the past as memory -> history is memory of the world and then from history to the past.

>>52128411
That sounds incredibly cringe and fanfic tier.

>>52124340
I'm not particularly interested in the entire genre, so it would need to not actually include any magical girls.
Apologies for that.

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Is Project Rebirth better than Magical Burst?

>>52128576

As far as I'm aware, Magical Burst in all favours is still pretty bad, and there's a better system for whatever you might want to do for magical girls.

>>52128596
How does ProRe hold up?

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How about vaporwave magical girls?

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Nanohafag here to chime in that Legends of the Wulin works pretty damn well for action magical girl fare. Also sharing a new bit of NPC art from the game, because why not?

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>>52126030
"Cyborg on rocket boosted rolerstakes" isn't really a martial art but its still fun as fuck

>>52128512
Well, the character is also an antisocial asshole who is basically a neet; they spend most of theyre time either fucking about whatever hotel room they've wiped from history as their place to stay or just using the fact that people cant see her to go peoplewatching.

She is not exactly the heroic sort.

>>52128689

There's nothing wrong with GaoGaiGar-tan.

>>52128724
I really hope you realize how cringe worthy what you are saying is.

>>52128738
reddit.com/r/CringeAnarchy

>>52128411
I love this, but I crossed it into the whole 'mask' idea for a game seed that will likely not get off the ground.
>"Frog" is connected to "Medicine", being able to turn fluids she touches into various drugs and poisons
>"Lioness" is connected to "Sovereignty", and can imprint commands on things that 'fear' her (react to her presence, so she can kick a rock and make it fly in a zigzag and break a wall, for example)
>"Ant" is connected to "Improvement", meaning she can make herself and things around her better and more efficient
They basically get dragooned into helping some magical parasites track down seven 'demons' as part of an obnoxious shadow war over who gets magic powers. The other big thing I wanted to stress was identity; Taking on the powers is taking a new identity, so at first the costumes don't fit right, they don't know how shit works (the mentors don't either), etc.

>>52128602

Project Rebirth setting writer popping by. While I'm obviously biased, I've found that it holds up a lot better unless you're in it purely for whacky RNG shenanigans.

Mechanically, the only thing I could say I miss from Burst/Rewrite is specific "Roll ALL the dice!" builds. The amount of new possible builds from the larger amount of archetype and general options will keep me busy too long to mind, though.

>>52126135
The characters are "Vessels" of platonic concepts called down to earth, as an enlightenment-era experiment into finding Truth. It only works on teenage girls because reasons, and renders them sterile. Both sides of the French Revolution are scrambling to create and control as many Vessels as they can... And there's already a "Glory of France" on each side.

>>52124340
Is that Thomas the fucking tank engine in the background?

Throw the bloody fight, girl. You have no chance in hell of winning it.

>>52129066
No, that's just Charlotte.

>>52124340
Honestly, I think it'd be fun if the team was something of a mixup.

We all look like we were supposed to be on different teams, our powers and mascots have different origins and fuctions, etc.

Alternatively, being a gadgeteer who's able to convincingly fake being a meguca would be fun, if only until after I pull the IT'S ME AUSTIN trick.

>>52126254
Chess, maybe?

>>52128512
>something Type-Moon and JoJo run on
>fanfic-tier

Call it cringe if you want, but conceptual effects are a staple.

>>52129688

I think they were more referring to the specific example given

>>52124340

Magical girls work best as sexy, sexy love interests. As /tg/ shows, they're not really good at playing feminine magical girls.

Like, they're a perfect excuse to have stuff like the rapier-wielding maiden, the graceful ballerina-esque dancer with lethal kicks and other similar attributes. But generally, your typical gaming group can't manage that without making everyone a guy in drag. It makes more sense to work around it.

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>>52130854

I don't know, maybe it's just a difference between groups, in the games I'm in the magical girls are pretty girly, with the punchmage above being the notably tomboyish exception.

>>52130882

Don't forget that men are a really big deal for most magical girls, too. Nowadays, shows try to avoid that for yuri teasing, but the whole point was a young girl getting a chance to experience what it means to be a woman for the first time.

I think it's traditional for the love interest to fall for her more glamorous alter-ego before eventually coming to love the real girl.

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>>52124340

>>52126254
Poker cards. You could have each magical girl represent a suit and then steal the rest from Kamen Rider, too.

>>52130854
>But generally, your typical gaming group can't manage that without making everyone a guy in drag. It makes more sense to work around it.
Fucking this.
I met my current group playing magical girls.
They somehow talked me into running magical girls again. I cannot stress enough how little the whole "girl" thing comes in. It's practically just a super-hero game at this point, which I kinda prefer, but every moment of downtime where everyone pretends to be cute school-age girls is absolute suffering to slog through, because no one knows how to actually act like a girl, and it's pure suffering to watch.

>>52133948

Yeah, basically every PC is ultimately playing himself. This is why, even for other RPGs, it's generally best for them to go with characters who are ultimately similar to the players. Otherwise, in the heat of the moment, it's quite easy to forget.

It's simply more honest to make the NPCs, so you don't have the players trying - and failing - to pretend to be girls.

>>52130854
Well, my group has done it pretty well. It might factor that half of the players are female, and one of the male ones is pretty girly too.
The rest don't underperform though.

>>52130932
>Nowadays
Yes, I know the image is from Crystal. Point still stands.

Also, it's less stressful to the meguca's relationship to have her love interest be another meguca.

I have no idea how to adress the "they're playing men in drag" thing.

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>>52134365
>the image in question

>>52134365
>I have no idea how to adress the "they're playing men in drag" thing.
Get better players.

>>52134031
>Everyone I know can't act for shit so no one can

>>52124839
Nanoha is a neat middleground in anime. Its scientific and magic, it treads that line in mahou shoujo anime of "Girly as fuck" and "Dark as fuck", its got fairly good animation, and characters are taken pretty seriously.

All in all, its just an interesting anime solely on basis of where it puts itself compared to other anime.

>>52126030
Vivid and vivid strike are both more martial than the initial series. that said, in the initial series, the girls were 10, one of them only just getting abilities.

In vivid strike though, its full martial arts. Vivid is somewhere inbetween, mixing things to a great degree.

Vivid strike also has the most brutal instance of revenge on bullies i've seen in a long time.

>>52126030
The martial arts in ViViD Strike were a mix of "hard" striking styles like Muay Thai, Karate and Bājíquán.

>>52127010
Sailor Moon is the fusion of color-coded sentai and classical magical girls.

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I'll just leave this here too

>>52134365

> Also, it's less stressful to the meguca's relationship to have her love interest be another meguca.

That's yuri goggles talking. Remember that Sailor Moon's love interest was Tuxedo Mask, who had vaguely-defined superpowers of his own.

Obviously, a magical girl's boyfriend needs to be a Kamen Rider-type. (Generally, only a few manga does this because otherwise you get the problem of 'wait, whose show is this?)

>>52136798
>Obviously, a magical girl's boyfriend needs to be a Kamen Rider-type.
I require this so bad.

>wait, whose show is this?
Both of theirs, the best kind of couples show.

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If there's no yuri it's not real magical girls

>>52133948
>>52134031

This honestly just sounds like a case of bad players.

For myself and the groups I play with, playing characters very different to ourselves is often the most fun and interesting, exploring a different perspective on the world.

Naked transformation surrounded elemenrs fire/water/wind/plant gives me a boner

>>52137070
You perv.

>>52136435
That's only because the tourney the girls participated on didn't allow grappling.

>>52128575
>>52124340
Same here, unless you're a girl this is ridiculous. You're giving a bad name to a hobby that's already stigmatized.

>>52137777
>bwaah I'm insecure about my masculinity and a bad roleplayer, stop liking things I don't like
Genre RPs are some of the best shit.

>>52136491
>western magical girls
It's better that they be left unmentioned, as they seem to be hellbent on the outdated and ill-received Disney method of "MUST HAVE MALE LOVE INTEREST AT ALL COSTS, NO MATTER HOW SHOEHORNED"

4 girls manipulating strong, weak, electromagnetic and gravitational interactions. Team would be called "great unification".

>>52137777
completely wasted quads

>>52138421
I see useful stuff for all but the strong force.

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>>52137777

If you wanted to do mechs in an MG game somehow, how would you do it?

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>>52140313
The MG theme is mecha musume

>>52140313

Not to labour the Nanoha train, but that series does this. It's full of Super arobot Wars references, and in the game I'm currently playing we've faced the Alt-Eisen and the Grungust. I can poke the GM for more details.

>>52140347
That would be actually pretty cool.

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>>52138421
>>52140313

Oddly enough, those two combined is the basis behind the NPC here. >>52128679

Sephia Sirocco, Gravity-themed Mage.

She's also a blatant homage to the Granzon from SRW and it's pilot. Pic related.

>>52130854

>But generally, your typical gaming group can't manage that without making everyone a guy in drag.

What makes a character a 'Guy in Drag'? As I knew a lot of girls growing up who were super into rugby and hiking.

>>52140313
Combine magical transformations/weapons with mech themes and its easily do-able. Sorta like powered armor-tier shit

>>52141056

Nanoha has a lot of robot callbacks without quite going to 'Power armour'.

So i've actually been planning a magical girl session with my group. Nice to run into this thread.

I'm using dnd 5e since that's what the group's used to. The idea is that monsters are leaking from the "magical world" and into the real world, and the characters have been selected to transform into powerful adventurer archetypes to banish them back. If it goes well, I might plan on running more sessions afterward.

Has anyone done something like this before? Does anyone have any suggestions on mechanics or challenges to put my players through?

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>>52124340
A Mahou Shoujo game has gotta be GAR as fuck. Precure-style cutesie stuff just wouldn't work.

>>52140662

Men can't play women convincingly. They shouldn't, too, because you're getting into some extremely weird territory.

>>52136924

Come off it, the point of magical girls is that their alternate form has the beauty and confidence that supersedes an awkward age, like an echo of the women they'd grow up to be. And part of being a woman is eventually becoming a wife and mother, if you've seen stuff like Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne.

The push towards yuri is the fear of a waifu having to take a man's penis. In most shows, the heroines are obsessing over boys. Madoka did that, too, though there was only one relevant male character.

>>52143788

Can women play men convincingly then/should they be prevented from playing Deathwatch?

>>52143788

Do you actually have any argument to back that up, or is that just anecdotal evidence?

Because... Maybe like the thread has said, you've just had shitty players, or people who couldn't deal with it? People crossplay in games I'm in all the time and it works fine. And before you ask, yes, these are mixed groups, and we also have girls playing guys.

>>52143828

Deathwatch is sort of a caricature of every action hero ever. It ain't hard to be loud and boisterously aggressive.

In contrast, it can get pretty uncomfortable when your typical all-male group is trying to play little girls, especially little girls where feminity and romance are a big part of the story.

>>52143864

So 'girls can play guys but guys can't play girls'?

>>52143894

Yeah, it's one of those natural double-standard things. It's like how a woman who fucks a lot of guys is a slut, while a guy who fucks a lot of women is a superior male.

Or how female virginity is valuable while male virginity is worthless - Or how a woman can wear men's clothes (to a certain degree), while a guy can't wear women's clothes.

It's the way of things, man.

>>52143923

Except all of those things are total bullshit, relics of sexism and social prejudice which can and should be eroded wherever possible?

>>52143957
Just because it's bullshit doesn't mean it's not a thing.

>>52143923

So, why? You've not really provided anything other than 'It can get pretty uncomfortable'?

>>52143971

Sure, they're things. And the best response to things like that is to assist in stopping them being things anymore.

>>52144040

Not that guy, but try reddit for that. As a PC, I have no interest in changing things, and neither does the silent majority.

>>52144129

You are a player character? Who's playing you then.

>>52142792
Who said I was talking about nanoha?

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>>52143045
Having relics manifest as different weapons depending on the wielder's personality sounds like it could lend itself well to a game.

>>52143827
You come off it, there is not one magical girl show without yuri elements. Nanoha and even sailor moon had yuri.

>>52146170

Ignore them, it's an odd subset of the magical girl fandom who eternally indulge in wilful denial and baseless assertions about what 'real' magical girls are/are about.

What has NOT yet been done in meguca series?

>>52147733
Mahou shoujo war drama. That or politics. Basically anything that isn't shounen, super sentai, or traditional mahou shoujo.

>>52147883
>Mahou shoujo war drama.
Izetta. Youjo Senki. Later parts of Nanoha StrikerS

>>52147883
Strike Witches?

>>52147960
>Izetta
Not mahou shoujo.
>Youjo Senki
Let me just laugh in your face for a second while you believe that its mahou shoujo.
>Nanoha StrikerS
Better, but was poorly executed and wasn't the main focus so I tend not to associate it with it.
>>52147972
SW is not very war drama though. It does have the light hearted attitude that fits mahou shoujo. A lot of the appeal is for /k/ommandos and gunfags though, so its a weird fusion of the two.

>>52147883
See
>>52124596

Has a few politics at least. And some minor war related stuff.

>>52136491
>Mentions Minky Momo and Creamy Mami
Awwww yisssssss

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>>52124340
I don't care as long as I'm the GM

>>52124340
Whatever it is, it shouldn't be anything overtly grimdark or edgy with lacy frills on it. If you're making something about magical girls, make it about magical girls, not about thing X which is totally unrelated except it involves girls in pretty dresses for some arbitrary reason.

If there's some dark secret hiding beneath the innocent cheer, fine, but make it convincing on the surface. Don't just make it zombies in skirts. That sort of thing has been done and overdone to the point where it's lost all its irony value.

>>52152284
Of course, if you are running a genre game people are going to want to play it for that genre.

>>52152284

I hope anime remembers how to make actually fun magical girl stuff soon. The endless tide of edgy grimderp shit is getting annoying.

>People who talk about mahou shoujo but haven't watched anything but post-nanoha otakubait stuff
>People who talk about mahou shoujo but haven't watched anything but post-sailor moon super team stuff
>People who talk about mahou shoujo but haven't watched anything but post-minky momo transforming girl with mascots stuff
>People who talk about mahou shoujo but started with Sally the Witch instead of Bewitched.

>>52155020
>mfw I've seen bewitched.

>>52157347
>mfw no face.

How would you girlify historical relics/legendary arms? What does the lance of longinus become in the magical girl universe?

>>52157974
Yuki Yuna (Actually the Nogi Wakaba wa Yuusha de Aru) and Symphogear both use historical relics and they are just adapted to the girl's outfit style.

The Jesus poking spear could be like, a stylized lance or rod (if we go in a no-weapon route) with red roses or other carmine flower in the tip?

>>52157974
You're getting ahead of yourself. Define the setting first, and why legendary stuff is showing up.

>>52157974
Sympogeah.

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>>52152102
No QBs allowed.

>>52124340
To be fair I would not be the type to play a mahou shoujo RPG to begin with, but I'm not sure what I look for out of the magical girl genre, certain things about the way the characters act, would be found in an RPG. Mahou shoujo shows aren't like Star Wars; the universe and lore aren't really the main draw. Probably I would be looking for a certain tone or feeling out of the game. It doesn't have to be happy, but I would want it to be heartfelt if at all possible.

>>52157974
Make the relics have intelligences and make contracts or whatever with the girls. Basically like a familiar and the girl is the summoner then they combine for transformation shit.
>>52158015
>Yuki Yuna is now mahou shoujo
What has the world come to?

>>52161057
>What has the world come to?
It's the new and exciting post-Madoka ages of magical girls.
Everything is fire and suffering and the girls are gayer than ever. It's a new golden age, one that should never end.

>>52161112
You are everything that is wrong with neo mahou shoujo. I don't see how DARK AND EDGY SUFFERING is interesting or even new at this point.

>>52161112
>>52161135
>Madoka was influential
Yeah, 4 shows at most in 6 years all airing past midnight and only Yuki Yuna getting sales that aren't crap. Truly the evangelion of magical girls, how the genre will ever recover!
>>52161057
>Yuki Yuna isn't mahou shoujo
I mean, I'd be on your boat if you considered all magical girl inspired by Sailor Moon to not be mainline, but something tells me you aren't big on Sally and Minky Momo.

>>52161135
>People just like those shows because of DARK and SUFFERING
Really tells why Symphogear and YuYuYu didn't sell while Genei and Raising Project are getting new season after new season.

>>52160983

>the universe and lore aren't really the main draw

Generally but not always true. See the Nanoha stuff above. The setting is surprisingly interesting and well fleshed out with lots of story opportunities to explore.

>>52161344
YuYuYu did sell. Although most would put the show in the same tonal category as Madoka. And didn't Symphogear get 3 seasons? I can't tell who is being sarcastic in this series of posts.

>>52161057
How could Yuki Yunna not be a mahou shoujo?

>>52161570
It was obviously sarcasm anon. Shows with blood, gore and etc. flopped. Symphogear S1 was edgy and sold poorly, S2 and 3 got less edgy and sold far more. YuYuYu doesn't even have death (in the anime) and all dark is counterbalanced by hope, the result was that it sold well.

>>52161285
>only Yuki Yuna getting sales that aren't crap
Those shows all sold great. I have no idea what you are talking about. And the effect that those shows had via their success has started to effect other mahou shoujo shows (just look at Vivid Strike). Neo mahou shoujo is just turning the subgenre into suffering and edge instead of anything of actual substance.
>something tells me you aren't big on Sally and Minky Momo
I've actually watched both and loved them (especially Sailor Moon). So you are just making conjecture at this point.
>>52161344
But both of those shows sold. YuYuYu got a huge following in Japan after the anime and Symphogear got 3 seasons (and might get a 4th).
>>52161570
It lacks any of the main characteristics of a mahou shoujo while taking a lot from the new shit (a la Madoka). This can be seen in its themes, its setting, characters, and even plot.

>>52161632
Not that anon but you are fucking retarded. Raising Project had tones of blood and gore and it did great. As did S2 of Syphogear. And I would argue that the fate that many of the characters are left in the YuYuYu anime and LNs are more grim than death. You must be fucking blind or retarded if you think that there is any significant amount of hope in that show's themes or story though.

>>52161632
Okay, it's sarcasm then. And what about these posts?

>>52161112
>>52161135
Are you seriously using the phrase "golden age" unironically? Are you seriously using the phrase "DARK AND EDGY SUFFERING", in all caps, unironically? Dark tone is a style of story. It's not something you're only allowed to do once and then never again.

>>52137797
>RPing as a little girl
>Anything but Brony-tier degeneracy
Quads don't lie, Anon.

>>52161733
I never used the phrase golden age. Dark tone becomes a problem when it becomes so overplayed it becomes stupid (i.e. Madoka Rebellion or some parts of Symphogear, which I will admit, is part of its appeal). There is a reason why edge becomes so cringey so fast. There's a reason why Kiri from F/Z is normie-bait.

>>52161648
>>52161667
>Raising Project did great
1362 disk average. Flop.

>All of it did well
Tell that to Genei at 947 average. Fractale, a historical flop, had a 705 average.

When in general the "didn't flop" line is at 3K

For comparison, Magical Boys averaged at 6923. Yuuki Yuuna averaged at 9858.

Great sales however, are more like Symphogear GX 14229, or Nanoha StrikerS at 22591. Then there is Madoka 71061. And keep in mind Madoka never got close to profiting more than Precure.

All this talk about "Dark MG" taking over is pure paranoia.

Madoka isn't even grimdark. It's a show with a haunting, yet beautiful aesthetic that features a dark, but ultimately hopeful narrative. The darkness isn't grim, nor is it relentless. In fact, the ending of Madoka is more of a middle finger to the idea of inevitable failure and despair than TTGL's.

Like it or not, it's deservingly cemented itself as the show to beat in the genre moving forward.

>>52161820
Need I remind you that 100% of any new mahou shoujo shows that have come out in the last 5 years (excluding Precure and Sailor Moon Crystal) have been dark mahou shoujo or some subversion of it? Sales mean nothing when people make more of what is already popular.

>>52161858

You say "except Precure" like Precure's some easily-discarded exception instead of a juggernaut that spits out new shows like a machine gun does bullets.

>>52161857
Madoka is an important piece of magical girl anime, but I think what most people disagree with is the new trend to make offshoots of the same "themes" and tone without understanding the underlying ideas behind Madoka.

>>52161915
That's basically like saying, "battle shounen anime isn't dead! just look at how one piece is still ongoing!"

It's a fucking retarded argument that relies only on the premise that large franchises will continue to pump out new shows, which isn't an argument.

>>52161857
I agree, although I'm beginning to feel the problem these guys are causing is bigger than any one show. There is nothing wrong with YuYuYu, or Symphogear, or Madoka or any of the mahou shoujo shows like them. I'm troubled that people would try to assert that they don't even belong in the genre.

>>52161857

Speak for yourself. For me, Madoka felt like grimderp bullshit with no hope that looped around at the end with all the elegance and logic of a binary overflow error.

I've had people explain it to me a dozen times, but that doesn't change that my personal experience of the show was quite profoundly negative and I've not been impressed by any of the stuff inspired by it.

Does Nanoha improve significantly from the first series? While it wasn't bad, I found it very bland, aside from the reveal of Fate's true origins.

>>52161858
That is because Precure has been slowly killing the amount of daytime shows. Madoka just showed the otaku late-night market was still alive.

And even then, you are absolutely wrong.

>Matoi
>Pleiades
>Nurse Witch Komugi
And since we count Symphogear
>Vividred

And even more, Yuki Yuna was last original "dark" magical girl release, and that was in 2014.

>>52162004

Massively. There's a reason most people recommend skipping the first series entirely and just watching the movie instead.

A's is the series at its best, with the movie being pretty good too. StrikerS has serious pacing problems but introduces some really great new characters and a lot of interesting worldbuilding.

Avoid the Force manga, it was killed off for a reason, and ViViD/ViViD Strike are fun if you like the idea of a martial arts oriented spinoff.

>>52161988
Madoka the TV anime was fine. Rebellion ruined everything.
>>52162004
A's is the peak of Nanoha. Everything afterwards goes downhill.

>>52162011
>Matoi
Indepdent trash that not even nips like.
>Pleiades
Gainax car commercial, nothing else.
>Vividred
This isn't mahou shoujo and you are just fishing at this point.

>Yuki Yuna was last original "dark" magical girl release, and that was in 2014.
Objectively wrong. Raising Project was last season. And Vivid Strike was in the same season.

>>52161940
The one piece case would be the comparable to there being nothing in the market but Sailor Moon. Precure has new characters and themes each season, which makes this time comparable to the 1968 - 1980 period when it was basically nothing but toei majokko series, most of them feeling very similar to each other.

>>52161988

Anon, as I've just explained, it's not "grimderp". Grimdark is no hope, ever, everything is doomed. Even at the bleakest moments of the show, hope still remains, and the show's visual aesthetic is quite elegantly beautiful, rather than grimly so. You're well within your rights to dislike the show, but such misuse of the label will put it right up there with Mary Sue as a term flogged to the point of losing all meaning.

>>52162011

Pleiades was so comfy. A literal shill show had no right to be so fun.

>>52162071
>Raising Project was anime original
You don't know what anime original is? That was based in a LN.
>Vivid Strike
Sequel.

>>52162095

Madoka was grimderp. There were no small victories, no real moments of lightness. Right up until the ending, literally anything anyone did ended in the worst possible way, sometimes for no other reason than the show wanting to make its cute characters suffer more. That literally everything inverted in the last ten minutes doesn't stop the majority of it being pointlessly grimdark bullshit.

>>52161858
You are confusing shows for little girl and shows for adult man that air 3 AM in the morning. There is no competition between those two sides, if there was, Precure would rape them.

>>52162077
You spouting terms and historical factoids to make it seem like you are smart doesn't help your case. The fact still remains that the majority (if not all) of recent mahou shoujo shows are dark. Excluding massive commercial sinks like Precure is only logical when talking about the only things that matter: new works.
>>52162114
I never said it was anime original dipshit. Of course I know Raising Project was based on an LN
>Sequel.
Wrong. It was a spin-off and even then they still had transformations, familiars, and all the other trappings of a mahou shoujo show, just put in a more mature and Nanoha-esque set up.
>>52162150
I am seperating Precure and other shows because they are two seperate marketing styles. One is a long running franchise that has millions invested in it, others are small adaptions or anime original off-shoots aimed towards otaku (the exact reason that the subgenre is going to shit). The worst example of this is Prima Illya, which started out as fairly typical mahou shoujo fare and is now just lesbian loli bait (and isn't even subtle about it)

>>52161988
Madoka DOES have hope. I think a lot of us here have a pretty thorough understanding of how you feel about Madoka at this point. The reason why I'm replying to you now anyways despite knowing this is because I won't accept your assertion about the story having no hope, as if the way you claim that is your attempt to snuff it out for us that are inspired by it. I'd expect nothing less from you if someone tried to do the same about Nanoha.

>>52162142

Things didn't end "in the worst possible way" throughout most of the show. Hitomi didn't die. Kyosuke gets to play again, thanks to Sayaka. Kyouko befriends Sayaka instead of ridiculing and killing her. Homura is matching her willpower against the entire universe, and enduring, out of a love for her friend.

Your insistence that the show was nothing but mindless suffering betrays a very poor knowledge of it. No one will argue that it's not dark, but the show certainly is not relentlessly, utterly dark.

>>52125274
What system do you use to run it?

>>52162258
>>52162306

>I've had people explain it to me a dozen times, but that doesn't change my personal experience

Also >>52162258 what are you talking about? Are you doing the stupid 'Everyone who disagrees with me must be the same person' thing?

Not them, but

>>52162374

see

>>52128679

>>52162400
>with all the elegance and logic of a binary overflow error
But whatever. It's fine if you're just some other random guy. I'm not here to make you like Madoka, but I am here to assert its rightful place as a real magical girl show that most definitely has hope in it.

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>>52162201
It is only a fact after you do the following:
1) Discredit all non-dark late night shows because you perceive them as failures.
2) Don't apply the same discredit rule to dark shows that failed. (Genei, Raising Project)
3) Count new Precure seasons as only one series.
4) Count Vivid Strike as a new show because it has new characters and setting. (Even though Precure too has new characters and new settings)
5) Includes the Mecha Musume Symphogear in the list, doesn't include the Mecha Musume Vividred in the list.

You just have a hate boner against seinen Magical Girl and you blame it "for ruining" the genre even though it couldn't have done so because it doesn't compete with daytime magical girl and even if it did, it doesn't have the financial or viewership power to compete.

And I used to Majokko series examples because that is how it is fucking called you dipshit. Toei called it that back then, Toei calls it on their site, Toei called it in that one odd crossover game they made.

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>>52162557
You sound pretty fucking booty-blasted you fucking retarded autist.

>>52162602

No? It seems like he's being entirely rational and citing facts while you're- Ohh. Ohhh. You're either a troll or resorting to trolling after actually losing the argument. Fair enough.

>>52162633
Assuming you're not samefaging, your attempt at a response is pretty fucking pathetic.

>>52162400

No one is saying you are wrong to dislike Madoka.

However, it is literally an objective fact that everything does not end in the worst possible way prior to the ending. Your ceaseless insistence on clinging to the absurdly juvenile "grimderp" label instead of simply stating that the show is too dark for your tastes in the genre does you no credit.

If you spout a childishly contrarian opinion a dozen times, expect to be called on it a dozen times.

>>52128679
I've heard Legends of the Wulin has horrific editing problems and you need to sift through the book for all the rules.

If anyone's interested, you can create your OC Magical Girl with this:

http://pastebin.com/UZYFrhqr

By far one of the most, if not the most, detailed and nicely looking character creators I've ever encountered.

>>52163158

Unfortunately true. It's a beautiful system in concept, but the execution has a lot of problems and the bad editing makes getting through it all even worse. It's a huge barrier to entry. IMO it's worth it, but it's entirely understandable that some people wouldn't want to deal with it.

Magical Girls should only love their fellow Magical Girls.

>>52143864
A lot of magical girls are written by guys. Are you implying they're lesser than magical girls written by women?

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>>52124596
Why wait that long?

What are some good systems for magical girl stuff?

>>52163409
Power-tripping non!hitlerjungen might be welcome ally on field of battle but that doesn't make them an operator.

>>52163492
Wrong! It does.

>>52163471

Legends of the Wulin has been mentioned, with its upsides and downsides. Fate is another one I've heard used, its fluffy and thematic enough to work well.

N>>52124340
I don't know if this was brought up yet, but there's a NWOD splat called Princess: The Hopeful. You play as a magical girl of one of 8 kingdoms and pick one of 5 classes based on the 4 card suits and swords. Overall looks pretty good