/STG/ - Star Trek General

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Modiphius, pls
We need more content for this thread

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>>52118601
HOW BOUT THEM DREADNOUGHTS!

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>>52118996
What about them?

>>52119412
Try again, pal.

>>52118996
It IS kinda neat that they have both 4/4 gun slots, AND 2 hangar bays. Also temporal buff modes and the time beam blaster (which combines with the lance to be TWO time beam blasters).

>>52118964
This kills the Damar

>>52118601
It's a damn shame that the only characterization for this guy turns him into a 19th Century New England Naval Tradition obsessive. His whole ship basically looks like it stepped out of the pages of some sailor's bar. I'd prefer if he was Frasier, with the rest of the cast there. And his dad as Chief Engineer.

>>52118964
Damar really has one of the most interesting character arcs on the entire series imo.
From literally who to head of Cardassia to resistance fighter.

>>52121108
The Cardassians in general were brilliant. I love that so much of their characterisation was made through minor details, rather than the expositionary info dumps we tended to get with the Klingons.

>>52120411

Huh? He was on screen for, what, 2 minutes?

>>52121514
Novel canon.

>>52121518

Fan fic? Who gives a fuck about fan fic?

Hell, we have trouble getting all the movie and TV show scripts to "fit" together. Why add more shit to the equation?

>>52121518
how abhorrent
I'll allow it

>>52121757
>Licensed novels are fanfic

There's a reason we have Memory Beta, anon. Similarly, there's a reason that only licensed works appear there.

>>52118601
Gul Dukat for president 2020.

>>52121771
It's actually not bad in a way. Bateson and his crew are revered in their particular sector because of the way they disappeared, and when they get to the future, they all have issues with the fact that they're in the future, and everyone they knew is dead. Oh and the whole crew are stupidly famous, when they're just working joes. The obsession with Nantucket was a bit much though.

>>52121794
>There's a reason we have Memory Beta, anon.

The reason Beta exists is to keep Trekkies happy. If it were worth a damn, it would be in Alpha and not segregated on the Beta Short Bus.

>>Similarly, there's a reason that only licensed works appear there.

Paramount would license a Trek line of Depends if they thought there was a buck in it.

Published Trek fan-fic is nothing more than romance novels for neckbeards. Instead of a cover with a shirtless Highlander hugging Jane Austen meant to catch the eye of some morbidly obese Tumblrina, you slap the word "Trek" on the cover to catch the eye of some morbidly obese sperglord.

>>52121757
Here's a handy-dandy guide to tiers of canon:

>Alpha Canon (shows and films)
Captain Bateson commanded the USS Bozeman, which became caught in a Temporal loop and was eventually saved by the USS Enterprise. The Bozeman was mention in several other instances, including the battle of sector 001 and after the destruction of the Amargosa Star. Whether or not this was the same vessel or was commanded by Bateson is unknown.
Andorians have 2 sexes, owing to the exclusive onscreen use of male and female pronouns, as well as only 2 parents. However they seem to have a complicated social structure regarding marriage, possibly owing to the unforgiving nature of their homeworld.

>Beta Canon (licensed books and games)
Bateson commanded the Bozeman until she was retired in 2371. However the same crew went on to operate her successor, the Bozeman-A, which was the vessel present a 001.
There are differing accounts of Andorian gender. One novel series claim that Andorians have 4 sexes and this left them chronically underpopulated. However this is not supported by the show, which clearly shows that the Andorians have 2 sexes. The Aenar may technically count as 2 separate sexes, owing to their divergent physiology. However the novels and show cannot be reconciled and should be considered different universes.

>Gamma Canon (fan-fic)
Bateson was the protege of captain Pavel Checkov. He was a diligent and upcoming commander. Before his dissapearence, he was considered for the position of captaining the new Enterprise.
My self-insert character has a harem of Andorian Futas that take turns pounding him in the ass and then letting their ovipositors slide down his throat.

>>52121889
Boy you sound like a lot of fun. Why do you still come to these threads, by the way?

>>52121889
I'm not discussing the merit of the books in question, just the express difference between licensed work and self-published pseudo wish fulfilment.

>>52122041
>Andorian Futas that take turns pounding him in the ass

Sounds like they have him pegged

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>>52122312

>>52118601
>Tossed salad and scrambled eggs edition
>Captain Frasier
Brilliant.

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>>52122312
/thread.

>>52120411

Star Trek: Frasier actually happened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2hs0oZ6JuQ

>>52121812
>Obsession with Nantucket

Well you're gonna have to explain that one.

>>52122957
The author of the book bought a boat before writing it, and they live in Massachusetts, so Bateson's whole shtick is that the Bozeman is basically a Northeastern US fishing boat. For fuck's sake, there's even a ship's wheel on the bridge that they mess with.

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>>52122983
So this, then?

>>52122041
>However the novels and show cannot be reconciled

That's bullshit, it's easily reconcilable. Two Andorian sexes are considered "male" and two are "female", so there's no need for four separate pronouns. And nothing in the show directly contradicts the idea of four Andorian sexes.

>>52121757
>Fan fic? Who gives a fuck about fan fic?

For fuck's sake this is starting to piss me off.

LICENSED WORK, BY DEFINITION, CANNOT BE FAN FICTION. It can be good, or bad, or horrible, or great, or stupid, or insightful, or any number of other things. It can be hard canon or soft canon or not canon at all. But if an IP holder licenses you to make something, then that thing is literally - and I actually mean "literally", I'm not being a tumblrina or redditfag or whatever, the actual word is appropriate here - CANNOT be fan fiction BY THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAN FICTION, which exclusively refers to unlicensed works made without the consent of the owner of the Intellectual Property in question.

WORDS HAVE FUCKING MEANING. USE THEM, YOU ILLITERATE PHILISTINE.

"Illiterate" here is obviously being used as a form of hyperbole to emphasize my displeasure at the incorrect usage of the term "fan fic". The difference between using "illiterate" in this fashion and Anon's use of fan fic is that one is a commonly accepted hyperbolic term, while the other is deliberately misleading since fan fiction solely refers to unlicensed works.

>>52123636
As an addendum, please note that I don't care about the Anon's opinions on licensed Star Trek works. If he honestly falls into seething, pants-shitting fury at the sight of a Star Trek novel and has mental breakdown every time someone suggests that a thing from a novel is or should be hard canon, that's his thing, and I don't care.

I solely object to his choice of words.

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>>52122041
I propose that in the interest of differentiating fan works from canon we use the Trek thing that's not a cannon and call them torpedo tales.

>>52121757
Oh god, not this again.
>>52121794
>>52121889
>>52121889
>>52122041
>>52122246
>>52122269
>>52123636
>>52123664
WE JUST DID THIS LAST THREAD, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

>>52123789
But... Those are phaser cannons in that pic...

>>52123664
>>52123664
Damn dude, calm your anus and quit sperging out. Not even the anon you're yelling at either.

>>52123789
We can't even agree on a consistent canon. Hell the shows/movies can't even agree on that. And it's not as if anyone here is actually doing/playing anything where a consensus is even needed so why bother?

>>52123496
The 4 sexes, in the novel, are mandatory for reproduction. Shran and Aenar-lady seem to have reproduced effectively on their own. Not to mention that the Andorians specifically refer to fellow Andorians as Male or Female. No Thans, Chans, Shens or Zhens in sight. Hence, the 2 narratives can't be reconciled.

The only argument in favour of there being 4 sexes is that it's never explicitly stated that there aren't. But that's fairly weak. By that same token it's never expressly stated that the Bajorans or Cardassian have 2 sexes. But we kind of know that there are, tacitly.

If something so integral to Andorians and the propagation of their species existed, you can bet we'd get to see it on screen. It's much more probable that the only artifact of the 4 genders is the Aenar.

And seeing as they're an isolated group with wildly different physical cababilities it wouldn't be all that unreasonable to consider them, when talking about reproduction, a separate pair of genders. After all, two Andorians mating will produce a baby Andorian. 2 Aenar will produce another tiny aenar. But what happens when an Aenar and Andorian fuck? Evidently they can produce viable offspring (Shran's daughter) but the child's physical traits may be wildly divergent.

>>52123907
He's not even arguing the same guy from last time, that one anon just has a weird obsession with raging about the definition of 'fan fiction' on a Guatemalan textile discussion board. Because apparently that matters somehow.

>>52123989
>Shran and Aenar-lady seem to have reproduced effectively on their own.

It's mentioned that it's Shran's and Jhemal's kid. Without knowing more about Andorian lineage laws, however, we can't rule out that the kid was conceived and birthed via the 4 sexes but is for lineage purposes considered to just be Shran's and Jhemal's.

Mind, I'm not arguing that this IS the case, only that it's not "irreconcilable."

>>52123962
>We can't even agree on a consistent canon.

No, I think we can agree on a lot of basic facts, it's the gaps in lore and mechanics that we tend to disagree about. And I would argue that trying to work out our own fixes to those problems is about the best thing we do around here.

>>52124007
It matters within the context of the discussion.

>>52123989
>>52124029

I honestly quite like the 4 gender Andorians, it makes them more alien on top of being blue and having antenna. Genuinely odd in a distinctive way.

I don't know how I feel about it being mandatory for reproduction though particularly when they're almost certainly capable of genetic engineering, or even just artificial fertilisation or equivalents could render it a moot point.

>>52124320
> it makes them more alien on top of being blue and having antenna.

Agreed. The Federation would be *easy* if the only real difference between species was face putty and the occasional bit of green blood. The more alien and inhuman the members of the Federation are, while still being members of the Federation and contributing to it wholeheartedly (regardless of the abundance or absence of hearts in their respective anatomies) makes it that much more impressive.

If I were doing a Star Trek TV series and had the budget for it, I would damn well have a Horta as part of the secondary cast, and in the most unexpected role for a Horta possible. Consular, maybe. Or chef. Actually, yeah, definitely chef.

>I don't know how I feel about it being mandatory for reproduction though

I like the 4 genders being mandatory for reproduction. I'm less fond of the idea that they suffered some kind of genetic crisis because of it. One would presume that on Andoria, 4 genders was the norm (as 2 genders is the norm on Earth) for all animal species, and they would have long ago evolved to make up for any kind of deficiencies.

Basically I like the idea in theory; I'm less fond of the execution carried out in the novels. And I especially dislike that the apparent solution to it was to re-engineer them into a 2-gender species.

If I was doing a post-VOY series, I'd probably broadly adapt the genetic crisis into canon that required Andorians to leave the Federation in order to get around its luddite genetic engineering laws, but I'd have the crisis be solved in a way that preserved the 4 genders.

>>52123945
Just call them nadion torpedoes or something.

>>52124525
>If I were doing a Star Trek TV series and had the budget for it, I would damn well have a Horta as part of the secondary cast, and in the most unexpected role for a Horta possible. Consular, maybe. Or chef. Actually, yeah, definitely chef.
One of the Rihannsu novels had a Horta as an engineering Ensign. Or maybe it was Medical. The latter is infinitely more bizarre than chef.

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>>52124525
>If I was doing a post-VOY series, I'd probably broadly adapt the genetic crisis into canon that required Andorians to leave the Federation in order to get around its luddite genetic engineering laws, but I'd have the crisis be solved in a way that preserved the 4 genders.

I can get behind that even if it's not a series and instead for the near-mythical (around here anyway) game setting. There's nothing to lose by discounting the novels entirely except to pilfer a few ideas of some value.

>>52124686
What ship class is this? It looks like early art for the Ambassador class.

>>52124779
I'm pretty sure that is an Ambassador class

>Star Trek lore rewritten by 40K writers

what happens?

>>52124779
It is based on a combo of the finished and concept versions of the Ambassador class. I think Catarina class is what the author called it. But fuck me is it ever a nice design.

>>52124887
You get STO.

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>>52124887
You get such gems as the battle of the acid lake on Nukara Prime.

>>52124668
Ensign Naraht, yes, though he was in more than just the Rihannsu novels (and he got promoted a few times). He was actually one of my favorite characters in the Rihannsu stories.

>McCoy: "He can consume sediments via the chemicals he secretes from his underside while he moves."
>Naraht: "That he *sometimes* secretes. I'm not such a glutton that I have to eat every time I move."

>>52124891
Eh, it's a bit too close to a Galaxy for my like. The extant Ambassador is, I think, a perfect bridge between the Excelsior and Galaxy.

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Carina class, there we go.

>>52124887
Everybody is nazis and nobody seems to realise that that's the joke.

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>>52123907
>WE JUST DID THIS LAST THREAD, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
WE WILL DO THIS AGAIN EVERY THREAD. FOR ETERNITY.
FOR THIS IS HELL. THE HELL YOU CHOSE.

>>52124887
The Borg are the good guys. The Federation falls to Slaanesh, the Romulans, and Cardassians to Tzeentch, the Klingons and Kazon to Khorne. The Dominion are basically the Tau. The Imperium of Borg dukes it out with the Voth for the rights to Holy Terra, while sometimes engaging in temporary alliances with the dinobeasties to fight off the Chaos factions.

>>52126722
Thank fuck our setting is just stagnant, I guess.

>>52119412
>yamato
>named after the boat that was one-shotted by ancient iconian artifacts
>pottery
>got popped by literal fucking pottery

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U N S T O P P A B L E

>>52128879
Unless you're the Dominion. I'm pretty sure they could take both Empires if the Federation stayed impartial.

>>52128904
Without Starfleet engineering wizardry those Breen energy draining weapons would have been fleet devourers.

>>52128947
It was the Klingons who stopped them first.

Since I don't want to hand out a bunch of (you)s, I'll just put my thoughts in one post, and then kindly fuck off.

I get the rage of the guy who is calling the Trek novels and the Beta canon "fan fiction". It's as much hyperbole as calling that guy illiterate. But he's also not entirely wrong, since the Beta canon is riddled with the kinds of self-insert jackassery that fan fiction is known for.

I'm of the opinion that canon isn't really important (at least for game settings) beyond the initial starting circumstances. I wish Trek as a franchise was consistent with itself, but it isn't, so even stuff that's canon is suspect (Threshold comes to mind).

As for Andorians, Data specifically says: "Andorian marriages require groups of four, unless...." and then he's interrupted. So unless marriage = reproduction, I think that the whole Andorian quadrasexual stuff is on shaky ground. Not that it wouldn't be bizarre and alien enough to be included, it's just that it's a bit of a leap to take a tiny snippet of filler dialogue and extrapolate it to an illogical extreme.

But then, there's the Breen, who were once described as "cold" by Riker, and we see how that's been taken for every bit of mileage.

Do I have a point with this wall of text? Not especially. I think that people who dislike the "other" canons should just learn to disregard it, and the people who like the other canons should just accept that some don't care for it.

At least we can all agree series/movie of your choice is shit, right?

>>52128978
Only on one ship, by accident.

>>52129127
Fuck off, Threshold was pure kino

>>52118964
Just played an Mophidius ST game today. It was fun, I like the system.

>>52129588
Storytime?

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How did O'Brien ever get over his prison experience that made him suicidal?

>>52128947
>>52128978
>>52129165
I was actually just thinking the Gamma Quadrant Dominion. Not including Cardassia or the Breen.

The Dominion can certainly outproduce both Empires and they'r more or less will to kamekaze their enemies when neccessary. The only real issue they would face would be supply lines. If they had the patronage of minor Alpha/Beta power, like the Tzenkethi or the Talarians I'd say they could mount an actual invasion in short order.

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>>52129718
through the best bromance in only equal to or maybe surpassed my Hawkeye and B.J. from M.A.S.H.

>>52129787

The way their friendship developed over the series was great.

>>52129747
>not including Cardassia or the Breen
>if they had the patronage of minor Alpha/Beta power
what did he mean by this?

>>52130073
I'm talking proper trash-tier empires. You know, the ones that show up as smugglers for the Romulans or the Cardassians. Basically useless in the fight but handy for providing a manufacturing base and staging ground.

>>52130174
The Lissepians. They're basically the bottom of the heap when it comes to the quadrant but they at least have financial backing.

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>>52123636
>LICENSED WORK, BY DEFINITION, CANNOT BE FAN FICTION.

Ah yes, the Referential Fallacy. Confusing the LABEL for the THING. Just because the money grubbing assclowns at Paramount slapped a "licensed" label on a piece of shit, that means it is no longer a piece of shit.

Pic most definitely related.

>>52130819
"Fan fiction" is a label. Whether something is fan fiction or not has nothing to do with the quality of said thing. I've read fan fiction with better quality than half of Enterprise's episodes, but that does not mean Enterprise is fan fiction, simply that it is low quality.

>>52130857
>>52130819

Licensed works are notorious for being of lower overall quality. Although in ENT's case, almost anything would be an improvement, and in 40k's case, even in-house stuff varies wildly in quality. And we're not just talking novels from the Black Library, but Codices and other sources.

For my part, the thing that put me off from licensed works was the Star Wars novel Darksaber, and the Star Trek novel where Kirk blows up the Borg.

This is not quality speculative fiction, and while these are examples of the worst in the category of licensed fiction, the "best" isn't likely to hold a candle to original works set in an author's own universe (see Foundation, Dune, Ringworld, etc.).

The primary reason for this, is that there will always be veto from above with licensed works, so a concept can't be fully explored because an author is playing with characters that are not their own. If a novel puts Data in danger, I can be assured he'll survive to the end, be saved at the last minute, or somehow resurrected through Treknobabble fuckery.

So, inevitably, if an author wants to explore something to its fullest extant, they have to make up a new character, get us to care about them, involve them with the existing characters we recognize from the franchise, and follow through on whatever theme, premise, or idea that inspired the story in the first place.

I can't recall a single Trek novel I'd care to read again, and I read a lot of them from between the ages of 10 and 18.

As for whether or not they're "fan fiction"? Not by the strictest interpretation, no. But as a dismissive, even purposely insulting and patronizing label? You decide.

>>52130819
>Just because the money grubbing assclowns at Paramount slapped a "licensed" label on a piece of shit, that means it is no longer a piece of shit.

But it does mean it's not fan fiction.

>>52131266
>But as a dismissive, even purposely insulting and patronizing label? You decide.

NO.

IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.

>>52132296

Language is how it is used anon. And as far as I'm concerned, "licensed" fiction is no better than fan fiction, and both mean "shit" in my vocabulary.

The same way "Brannon Braga" and "Rick Berman" mean "trite garbage".

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>>52132296
>>52131266
>>But as a dismissive, even purposely insulting and patronizing label?

Damn right that works. For a non-star trek example I (and many others apparently) happily describe/deride Terminator 3 as a fan-fiction because it reads like a stereotypical one in its very obvious clunky expansion on what came before (Villain Terminator is a combo of the previous two, and a woman! With expanding boobs!) and continual references simply for the sake of making them. There was some definite enthusiasm to it and it clearly wanted to be a Terminator movie, but lacked the innovation and polish of the prior films. Gives it a very fan fiction feel, which by comparison the fourth movie in the series lacked by instead being a very bland, workmanlike story that really was just there for the sake of it, not because anyone cared that much.

>>52132296
>IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.

As >>52132427 already explained, sperglord, that is how language works and is used.

Now go back to your collection of licensed Dreck novels. I'm sure the Andorian futa chapter is coming up soon.

>>52132492
>and both mean "shit" in my vocabulary.

I see. And what pronouns would you like me to use for you, tumblrite? Because as long as we're going to be changing definitions of words and pulling shit our of our asses we might as well bring the whole "xe/xir" thing in with it while we're at it.

>>52132492
> that is how language works and is used.

No, it's not. Get your definition of "fan fiction" published in an officially-maintained English language dictionary, such as Merriam-Webster, and then you can use it like that. Anything else and you're no better than, as I mentioned above, the retards who insist on being referred to as "xim" rather than "him".

More to the point, I question what you plan on doing if you come across a fan fiction that is actually both good and successful to the point where it actually influences the canon.

Properly speaking Jurassic Park the movie is merely a licensed adaptation of the book and under your shitty definition, where anything not made by the IP holder is fanfiction, "merely" fanfiction. But the movie is considered, if not one of the greatest movies of all time, certainly one of the top 10 best of the 90s, and its influence is immense.

And it was influential enough that when Crichton wrote The Lost World, he killed off characters who had survived the book but died in the movie, like the lawyer Generro and the hunter Muldoon, while he resurrected a character who had explicitly died in the book, Ian Malcolm.

But, hey, the movie was just licensed shit, right?

>>52133533
I'm actually on a roll now.

WICKED! I don't personally care for it. But I defy you to find an adaptation of The Wizard of Oz, or any Oz adaptation made since its publication, that does not go to Wicked for inspiration. For that matter, the Wicked Witch of the West is never said nor implied to be green in the books - that's purely the original movie. Yet if I say "Wicked Witch of the West", you imagine some green bitch, don't you?

NOSFERATU! That wasn't even licensed. It was a wholesale ripoff of Dracula that was taken to court, the creators were found guilty, and every copy of it was ordered destroyed. It's a miracle it survived. It's also pretty much required viewing for any Dracula or vampire fan.

BUT IT'S ONLY SO MUCH FANFICTION TIER SHIT, ISN'T IT?!

I don't reject the idea of calling something shit. That's your opinion. I don't even reject the idea that anything that's fanfiction must be shit. That's your opinion too. It's a shit one, but it's yours.

I object to the use of fanfiction as a synonym for shit while simultaneously using it as a synonym for licensed works, because it runs into immediate problems. With Jurassic Park, with Wicked, with Nosferatu, with probably a hundred thousand other things that I can't be bothered to look up right now.

Whether or not something is fanfiction it's a matter of opinion. It's a matter of objective fact. Either it was officially endorsed by the IP holder, or it wasn't. Nosferatu wasn't. But it wasn't shit. And therefore, your argument is invalid.

...Christ I get confrontational at quarter to 4 AM...

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Is it just me, or did Lon Suder have the best character arc in VOY?

>>52133533
>>52133657

>>Caring this much about fan-fic.

>>52133657
It's not enough, I can go deeper. Get your totems ready.

SHADOW OF THE VAMPIRE is an unofficial ("fan fiction") spinoff of Nosferatu made in 2000 that posits that Max Schreck wasn't an actor at all, but a fake identity, and that Count Orlok really was a vampire and the director of Nosferatu, F.W. Murnau, made a deal with Orlok to get him to play in his movie adaptation of Dracula to create the most realistic vampire possible, which Orlok agreed to mostly out of boredom and a desire to have easy feeding for awhile. It was released in 2000 to critical acclaim ("[Willem Dafoe] embodies the Schreck of Nosferatu so uncannily that when real scenes from the silent classic are slipped into the frame, we don't notice a difference." - Roger Ebert)

BUT NO, IT'S FANFICTION TIER GARBAGE BECAUSE SOME CHUCKLEFUCKS ON /STG/ SAY SO.

>>52133667

He not only has the best character arc, he's the best character hands down.

A major reason he's the best character is the fact that he, unlike the rest of Voyager's crew, knows and admits he's fucking insane.

>>52133701
The Star Trek fandom basically created fan fiction in the modern sense, and the amount of beta canon and fanfic is orders of magnitude higher than alpha canon material. This means any internet discussion of a certain length (like, say, a recurring thread on 4chan) will inevitably involve discussing it. For similar reasons, Ranma ½ threads on /a/ usually include fanfic recs... the franchise has had ONE 30 minute OVA since the mid 90s. The fandom is kept alive exclusively by fan works at this point. Imagine if TNG had been canceled after BoBW Part I and we had only had 30 minutes of new alpha canon since then.

Shit, this is /tg/. Any Trek adventure we GM is by definition a fan work. Calm the fuck down.

>>52133701
I care about the English language. This isn't the seventeen-fucking-hundreds. We have high-speed communication and data storage and, supposedly, a literacy rate of better than 95% in the entire Anglosphere. There is no reason for the drastic linguistic shift that in the past has been caused by laziness on the part of speakers and writers.

>>52133714
>>52133769
>>52133779

>Caring this much about fan-fic

>>52133701
>>52133803

Well, seeing as we've devolved into greentexting rather than writing out coherent and reasoned arguments, I'm gonna call this one a victory for the guy supporting the proper use of the English language. Who incidentally is me. So I win.

Good, it's 4 AM and I want to sleep. All hail the conquering hero, who, to reiterate, is me. I expect gifts of whores (preferably Asian and/or Caitian), riches, and pancakes (preferably thick and fuck you if I get fucking crepes) when I awake. Not necessarily in that order.

>>52130174
The Lysians?

>>52133803
Well that's clearly baiting for the sake of baiting. You can just go get fucked, mate.

>>52132427
>as far as I'm concerned

Opinions are literary facts now, I suppose.

>>52133718
It was also nice to see a Betazod that's bat shit insane.

>>52133718
His first episode was fantastic. I really wish we got a bit more development with him.

>>52122432
It's just a shame Kelsey Grammar was too full of himself to appear.

>>52118601
"Computer, one double decaf, non-fat latte, medium foam, dusted with just the faintest whisper of cinnamon."

>>52121757
This is how you derail a thread, boyos.

You take a semantically indefensible stance, make it insulting to a specific group or just a specific poster, and then back-pedal until your argument is made of so many technical equivocations that the entire thing has ceased to have any meaning beyond being obnoxious.

We could be discussing anything. Anything at all. Would the setting be more interesting if the Federation fell? Should the Borg just be left dead? Could any of the alpha quadrant powers realistically stand a chance against Starfleet, post DS9? But instead we're rehashing this stupid fucking argument. An argument about Fan-fic, on /tg/ of all places. /tg/ makes so much fan fic that we have our own fucking database for it.

Do you guys want /tv/ posters? Because this is how we get /tv/ posters. No? Good, now drop the topic and talk about anything else.

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>>52135416

Okay then: What is the best era for Starfleet uniforms and why is it Wrath of Khan era?

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>>52135716
It both is and isn't. I love the overall style of the WoK uniforms, especially the fact that Officers and Enlisted crew are easily distinguishable, but it has, by far, the dumbest rank identification of any of the uniforms.

Just look at this shit. 7 department colours, which themselves aren't prominently displayed. As well as an overly elaborate series of rank totems.

I don't think that TNG's pip system is perfect either,but it's at least immediately identifiable.

All the same, they're sexy fuckin uniforms regardless.

>>52135716
That is a pointless and dumb question. WoK uniforms are objectively the best uniform because they actually look like a uniform that might actually be worn by an actual sensible organization.

Unlike everything that came afterwards that looks like variations of pyjamas.

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>>52135830
I'm honestly not adverse to the fix suggested in pic-related. Though I get why people tend to reeeee out at the suggestion.

The rank icons could be simplified fairly easily without too much alteration. Just make the cross bars the norm and then change colour and number for the 3 tiers. black bars for enlisted, gold bars for line officers and silver/platinum for admiralty.

>>52136198
I don't "reee", I just don't think the blue or gold look very good in that style.

>>52135830
The ranks all have clear and logical progressions and it'd be easy for a cadet to identify them after his first week of training.

The department colors are honestly irrelevant, IRL navies don't even have department colors and everyone knows what everyone else does just fine. And besides that, they have as much visibility as late DS9 uniforms. Just because George wanted TOS to be a technicolor acid trip in the beginnings of color TV doesn't mean everything else has to follow suit.

>>52136794
bright coloured uniforms do have historical precedence. The British and French Navies and their respective marine compliments employed vibrant colours well into the 19th century.

The principle argument for department colours in Starfleet is that, as we so often point out, Starfleet isn't a proper navy. There are military aspects of Starfleet, but a large number of it's officers and enlisted crew don't have a military mission or anything beyond cursory combat training. In a tense, time critical situation, you want to be able to pick out the right people for the right job.

Lets say the ship has been boarded and comms are down. As far as you know, the bridge is taken and the command crew are dead. You're a junior lieutenant from tactical and you've decided you're going to mount a counter offensive. there are crew scurrying about and you need to pick out people that can be relied upon in a firefight.

First thing's first, anybody in red (or TOS gold) is a sure bet. They're command, nav and tactical. All solid choices in a firefight.

Similarly you start looking for Yellow uniforms (TOS red). odds are that anybody visibly armed is security and they're your bread and butter when it comes to combat. Engineering and Operations is a bit more of a risk, but if they're armed up, the more the merrier.

The Blues, though. Unless they're a senior officer you can bet that they're worse than useless in combat. Scientists, Doctors and Councillors. None of these pop out immediately as good combat choices. Sure, some of them might be useful, but for every Dax there's also a Mike from geology, who'll shit himself and freeze up the moment things get tough.

You can apply this to a fair few situations.

>>52137065
That's a very small number of colors to use, though. When you need a security officer, you don't need an ops officer. And when you need a medic you sure as fuck don't want to get stuck with a science officer.

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>>52137433
Which is what I think they were going for with the WoK department colours. However the various different colours were quite muted and ended up all looking sort of grey.

In this regard, this is one of the few places where STO has devised a pretty good solution.

Officers, enlisted crew and Cadets all have seperate uniforms, each riffing off of the same general style. This is similar to the WoK variations. However medical staff and ship captains receive their own uniform variant.

Similarly, each level receives it's own tactical uniform variant, more easily delineating combat personnel from operations, nav, etc.

>>52137065
At the same time though everyone in Starfleet should have basic skills without being a complete specialist. If Mike from geology is the only guy available then you give him a phaser and tell him to shoot things because it doesn't exactly take a massive amount of training to aim and press a button. If a guy is seriously that much of a liability then you can just tell him to get the fuck out of the way. You can't afford to be picky about collar colors in an emergency situation.

>>52137708
No, you tell mike and co to find somewhere safe, hole up and give the least flaky of them phasers. because knowing the basics of operating a weapon does not make you useful in a firefight.

Kirk, Picard, Sisko and even fucking Janeway didn't go around corralling everybody into mobs to throw at the enemy, they picked the right people for the Job.

>>52137885
*With an addendum for protag bullshit. But you know what I mean.

>>52137885
If you're in that much of an emergency situation that you need to be able to tell instantly what division a person is in just by looking at their uniform then you're in that much of an emergency situation that their division doesn't actually matter and the only thing that does matter is getting as many warm bodies with weapons in the general vicinity of the enemy so they can fire those weapons and hopefully wear the enemy down by attrition. Yeah it sucks but you're not in a position to be picky, and the alternative is death for everyone.

If you're in a situation where you can afford to take time to get Mike somewhere safe then you're in a situation where you can afford to look at someone's badge or ask what their NOD is.

>>52138003
That logic doesn't even hold for modern militaries. Even in critical situations there are people that are too much of a liability to just throw them a rifle and say "do or die". Modern militaries have hundreds of support personnel working on ships and bases who's job description nowhere includes "reenact the battle of Stalingrad" and a competent officer, or more likely NCO, would know not to waste supplies and lives in order to boost numbers. Odds are that if your HR team are manning the front line, anybody with any semblance of authority is long dead.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here a wager that Starfleet is even more like this, seeing as there are plenty of people there with neither the temperament or the capacity to fight within their ranks. Should these people be armed if shit hits the fan? at least some of them, yeah. But under no circumstances do you try to turn them into marines.

>>52138218
Basic training for everyone in the military includes learning how to fire the standard issue firearms and work as part of a unit in a combat situation. Doesn't matter what job you're going for, because there's always a hypothetical situation where there's an emergency, the enemy is coming at you, and they don't give a shit if you're a chef, logistics grunt or public affairs officer. Source: been there, done that.

I'm not saying everyone is going to be a marine, but if the situation is not so desperate that you can be picky about who you're bringing into a firefight then you have enough time to figure out peoples' actual qualifications beyond what color shirt they wear.

>>52138304
The thing is, Starfleet isn't a military. It's closer to NASA with guns.

>>52138304
I'm not convinced that every enlisted crewman or academy graduate has done combat drills. That sort of thing is mandatory for Security and Tactical, but optional for everybody else.

Because, as stated numerous times now, Starfleet isn't a military, at least not in the prime timeline.

>>52138373
So they hold no loyalties to anyone but themselves?
How come federation hasn't yet fallen under a military coup?
Sorry, i meant "Armed NASA coup"?

>>52138444
>>52138373
So the UFP is operating without a unified military.

How the fuck is it not dead by now?

>>52138455
What the fuck are you even talking about? Why would they have no loyalties to the Federation?

Are you climing that NASA has no loyalties to the USA? Cause that's pretty dumb.

>>52138444
The last Kelvin movie did some underhanded retconning, so that Starfleet's essentially back to its Prime description, just with bigger ships and guns.

>>52138483
Ok, lets start from scratch.
A military is an organization under the direct control of a nation.
Scientific organization, such as NASA, shows loyalty towards scientific community and to where ever they get funding from, in NASAs case, it is the US government.

Now, let's imagine star fleet, which is a scientific organization, but with guns.
What is to stop them from using those guns against their government, or against citizenry and go on a violent pillaging across the star systems? The non-existent military, or the police force who are armed with small hand phasers and nothing else?

That is my point there, without any indoctrinated, written and binding loyalties towards a nation, an armed force will end up being nothing but a force of mercenaries, no matter how much explorers they are.
Remember the armed explorers Spain sent to south-america? Sure, they didn't turn against their masters, but they certainly made life pretty shitty for the locals in the frontier.

>>52138466
Because Starfleet undertakes the defense of the Federation as one of it's many jobs. They cover diplomacy, humanitarian aid, colonization efforts, scientific survey, exploration, customs, anti piracy and general defence.

If you serve on an Akira or a Defiant, odds are your mission is one of those last 3. If you serve on a Nova or an Oberth, you're probably on a science mission. If you're on a big exploration cruiser, you could be in one of any of those roles temporarily or permanently.

Point is, there are combat ships and non-combat ships in starfleet. There's a reason you didn't see any Novas or Intrepids during the Dominion war. They're good robust ships but their crews aren't built out of military types, even if they carry a compliment of combat specialists.

>>52138543
>Only the military have a concept of loyalty. Civilians are just waiting to stab you in the back.

Michael Bay plz go. Plz stay go

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>>52138543
>Scientific organization, such as NASA, shows loyalty towards scientific community and to where ever they get funding from, in NASAs case, it is the US government.
Holy fucking shit you're dumb. NASA is part of the Department of Defense.

>>52138591
So it is a military.

>>52138611
A small portion of it is, the majority isn't. a more apt description might be that Starfleet is the Federal Civil Service. Or at least a large part of it.

>>52138601
So it's okay to arm any and all groups without checking them for loyalties and hoping for the best?

>>52138604
>The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA /ˈnæsə/) is an independent agency of the executive branch of the United States federal government responsible for the civilian space program as well as aeronautics and aerospace research

t:wikipedia

So, they arent part of the army mate and in case they had been, then the original point would had been moot thanks to the main example, NASA having had been a part of the military, which starfleet is not according to Roddenberry, yet oddly enough it seems to be a military according to its own mission statements laid out by Roddenberry himself.

tl;dr Starfleet is a fucking Schrödingers military.

>>52138644
>So it's okay to arm any and all groups without checking them for loyalties and hoping for the best?

Seems to be working so far.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WTdO-w3xnpw

>>52138676
So, when will NRA get to arm the citizenry with tanks, bombs, nukes and laser cannons?

>>52137594
Huh. I never really paid much attention to the STO "standard" uniforms, since I just dove headfirst into Cryptic's vaunted customisation, but these are actually pretty nice. Keeping the department colours, distinguishing white/blue collar crew, and actually looking like a proper uniform instead of the aforementioned technicolor pyjamas. Might shove my boffs into some variant of these, kinda getting tired my current kit.

>>52138705
When the military stars throwing antimatter and genesis torpedoes around.

>>52138728
Fair enough.

>>52138304
The thing is, that's a radically different mindset than what Starfleet has. It's true that in most marine corps, you're a rifleman first and some other specialisation second, but that doesn't hold true for most of the other military branches, and certainly not a psuedo-military dedicated to """""peaceful exploration""""".

>>52138748
>most
You mean the USMC. Elsewhere, competency comes before dakka.

>>52138611
It's the Military, UNICEF, Medecin Sans Frontieres, Green Peace, Coast Guard, Merchant Navy, NASA, NHS, IRS, Discovery Channel, UmbrellaCorp and Weyland Yutani all rolled into 1.*

*With all the good and bad that comes with each of those

>>52138823
>Green peace
So, is the Romulan star navy hiring any aliens? Because i sure as fuck wish to join them now.

>>52138823
Sounds like a hideously inefficient bureaucratic shit storm.

>>52138880
Exactly.

>>52138880
>Sounds like a hideously inefficient bureaucratic shit storm

Well, in a Federal state of thousands of member worlds and potentially trillions of citizens, bureaucracy is inevitable. But then, that's why you have Sector commanders, allowing them to localise authority rather than constantly call back to Earth for advice and instructions.

Not to mention the latitude of autonomy that captains are given during crises.

>>52138928
So it's an inefficient mess with too little accountability.

>>52139030
Hey, at least its not a military.

>>52139030
*That seems to be working just fine

>>52139030
>big things with many moving parts are scary

>>52139308
>t. Ba'ku

>>52139394
The fucking Ba'ku man. I'm not usually on the side of the Bad Guys in trek but seriously fuck those guys and fuck that whole movie.

>>52139486
Reminder that the initial plot for that movie was Apocalypse Now with Star Trek characters. And look what we got.

>>52139508
>Apocalypse now with ST chars
"I love smell of photon torpedoes in the morning".

Shit, i would pay to see that movie!

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>>52138373
>>52138444
>>52138748
Every Starfleet ship has weapons. Ideally they're supposed to be used for self-defense only, but even Starfleet's best deep space scientific research vessels have enough firepower to go toe-to-toe with top-of-the-line Romulan battleships. Why? Because even Starfleet understands the need for self-defense. Assuming that any Starfleet officer, even Mike from geology, hasn't been given at least a basic course on how to shoot a phaser and how to do first aid is ludicrous. That takes a week tops combined, and another week to practice it in a field situation.

Even Picard put himself through phaser drills, and he was the biggest supporter of "why the fuck are we doing combat exercises when we're a scientific research organization" on the Enterprise. Even Crusher and Troi shot people when they needed to.

>>52139547
We need more space Vietnam episodes. I think we only have 2 and they were both pretty good.

>>52139555
>put himself through phaser drills
That looks like fucking tai chi to me, anon

>>52139555
>that one episode where Guinan is a better shot than Worf
>That other episode that shows that Guinan keeps a giant fuck you cannon under the bar
I think pretty much everyone on the Enterprise has taken some proficiency with phasers

That isn't to say that all Civilians are practiced in Phasers.
>That one DS9 episode where Jake gets his hands on a phaser and proceeds to bury himself under a cave-in with it

>>52139827
To be fair that was Jake. I doubt he could drink a glass of water without Bashir stopping him from drowning.

>>52139862
Honestly, I think Jake is a good representative for the average Federation Citizen. Unskilled individuals that would probably accidentally kill themselves if left to their own devices without the Federation safety net all around them. "Humanity improving itself", from all observation, seems to mean becoming a dilettante in some art form, patting themselves on the back and then doing fuckall until they die.

Of course without that Federation safety net, they may also go feral and start gunning down their alien neighbors like the Maquis.

>>52140067
I thought it was essentially /stg/ fanon that the rest of the UFP are literally basement-dwelling robots, thanks to post-scarcity and the fact that anyone competent gets aggressively recruited into Starfleet

>>52140136
Maybe not basement dwellers, I see them more like vapid hipsters, taking up space and talking about themselves all the time while accomplishing nothing.

>>52139827

To be fair, Guinen is a incredibly old alien who was friends with Sam Clemens.

Jake is just a dumb kid whose father happens to be the Sisko.

>>52139827
Q is afraid of Guinan for a reason.

>>52140136
That seems kinda twisted given we've seen star fleet can be really, really exclusionary with even the wonderchild that was season 1 Wesley failing to gain admission.
And people will do what people do, and find themselves some purpose if they see fit to, and they would because they're supposed to be better than we are now.

>>52140464
I really hope nothing ever tried to explain why though I'd bet at least one novel did. That was something best left unexplained like much of what goes on with Guinan.

>>52140819
Funny enough, not even Memory Beta has anything on Guinan's relationship with Q.

>>52141001
Nope. Nobody has ever touched it. Though she does appear in some of the novels, often involved in alternate timeline shenanigans.

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>>52141001
>>52141107

Thank fuck for that.

>>52118601
>Star Trek Adventures, Modiphius’ 2d20 RPG
>-Official Modiphius Page
>>http://www.modiphius.com/star-trek.html
>Playtest Materials (via Biff Tannen)
>>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/36m6c22co6y5m/Modiphius%20Star%20Trek%20Adventures

Reverse-enginered character generation rules for Star Trek Adventuress
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g2ofDX0-7tgHojjk7sKcp7uVFSK3M52eVP45gKNJhgY/edit

Can we please get these added to the fucking thread pasta?

>>52137065
>Lets say the ship has been boarded and comms are down.

Excellent. Color-coding the crew means that when I board the ship I know EXACTLY who I should kill first. Thanks for making my job easier, asshat.

The only people who believe color coding the crew like a herd of Teletubbies is a good idea are those people who've never served in the military.

>>52139308
People not being called up on murder sure as fuck is.

Ignoring the genocide through inaction of Picard we still had Riker beaming down to Clone Planet and vaporizing a bunch of dudes for no reason. Never even given a stern talking to.

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What would each of the main Trek ships be like if they were represented by sentient AI?

>>52142055
In order: Falling apart but unusually intimate, trying to bang Geordie but otherwise fairly dull, Confrontational and petty in the way only a Cardassian or Asian wife would be, utterly confused by all the bizarre shit that goes on but otherwise entirely apathetic, just as dumb as everyone else.

>>52142046
No, you're right, ease of identification should be completely forgone because the enemy might also figure it out. That's why leaders never wear different uniform to their subordinates. There's no historical precedence to that at all.

>>52142050
We've been over this one repeatedly. The UFP aren't responsible for every random civilisation they come across and have been bitten in the dick for acting like that in the past. It sucks and we can say it's morally repugnant all we want but evidently Picard's choice was at least within the norms of what a starfleet officer is expected to do in that situation because nobody ever calls him out on it.

>>52142302
And Riker and friends beaming down and murdering a bunch of dudes?

>>52142423
Given how bent out of shape the UFP gets about genetic sciences I could well imagine some sort of general directive stating that the destruction of the gene manipulated human before they become conscious is acceptable. It seems like they were planning to destry all the fertilised embryos at Cold Station 12 for much the same reason.

That may explain why they didn't just offer to let the cloners use the space "oirish" to create new templates.

>>52142423
Clones aren't real people.

>>52142055
Voyager would be the abused and broken qt who just wants to be loved but is stuck in a house with a bunch of psychopaths.

>>52142535
DS9 A Man Alone.

It's still murder even if you kill your own clone.

>>52142055
Seeing as Andromeda was a Rodenberry creation, I'd wager that either the Constitution or Galaxy Enterprise would be Rommie.

Also, High Guard uniforms were nice.

>>52142248
>That's why leaders never wear different uniform to their subordinates. There's no historical precedence to that at all.

Leaders "learned" not to stand out when weapons got more deadly at longer ranges, asshole. And if your personal experiences extended beyond movies, TV, and video games you'd understand that.

You can dress up like a fucking peacock when it's swords, pikes, bows, and even muskets. Introduce rifling, however, and those that stand out get cut down FIRST. That's why modern military and para-military organizations use subdued tactical markings if they even use them at all.

Trek has personal weapons that operate at lightspeed with no noticeable recoil, yet you want officers to play dress up because it's cool.

>>52142598
According to Bajoran law, not Federation law.

>>52142670
>Bjorans having less awful laws than the UFP

This is how you know you fucked up somewhere

>>52142423
>>52142522
Arguably the weirder part of that episode was Riker's "MORE RIKERS WOULD DIMINISH MINE OWN SPLENDOR!" reasoning, and the assurance that said feelings were common enough on the ship to not be worth checking for their civilization's survival. They never even actually said "it's an abomination and I won't allow it" or anything meaningful, just "my clone is my property and it has to die because otherwise I wouldn't be special."

Monstrousness or not aside, it's just a bizarrely uptight incident.

>>52142817
The UFP ain't exactly known for personal rights. They pretty much had to be convinced that Data was sentient despite him clearly being so.

>>52142817
>>52142833
The only dudes Riker "killed" were clones using genetic material harvested from him and Pulaski (with Pulaski's permission) and had not reached "life." His genetic material is his property therefore he has the right to do with it as he pleases. If anything personal rights are respected far more in the Federation with regard to genetic material.

>>52142833
The Federation is desperate for a slave race to do all the shitty jobs their citizens won't do for free. When they couldn't get Data or his Daughter, they got the old EMH's.

>>52142641
>milsperging in a space opera
Pop quiz: How many Starfleet personnel have been murdered because their rank or function was correctly surmised as a result of clothing? The answer probably isn't none, but it's pretty clear nobody but you gives a shit if the captain's wearing hot pink captain clothing or not.

Also, phasers are shit weapons. You can't possibly have any actual military experience and think Trek combat looks like actual modern armed conflict but even more dangerous and fast-paced. Honestly I don't think you can even have very much movie, TV, or video game experience and think that.

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>>52142641
And yet you can clearly identify an officer from an enlisted man. In that regard, TNG's pajamas provide better anonymity than modern military standards.

And given you're more than likely going to be fighting in pic related, camouflage is redundant.

>>52142864
Unless you want to do military/scientific service and have been genetically tweaked. They don't like your type around these here parts.

>>52142046
"Kirgok! Kill the red ones first!"

"But sir! I'm under fire by yellow ones! Surely we should kill them as we see them, rather than picking them out!"

"No, Kirgok. Colour coding is of utmost importance during a firefight."

"Ahhhh, Sargall has been slain by a blue one, I shall dispose of his assailant! Vengeance is my right!"

"No, Kirgok, blues are of least importance. If we abandon the colour coding we have nothing as a culture."

Yeah that checks out mate. Thanks.

>>52142892
>Decide they want Data
>Are willing to turn over their previous decision that he's sentient even if that means they've been giving medals and officer ranks to someones toaster, nevermind that his creator never donated Data to Starfleet, they "salvaged" him after the Crystalline Entity sanitized that planet.
>Beaten by a really good Picard speech

Second Attempt
>Data randomly makes a daughter
>Upon finding out, a Starfleet Admiral manifests upon the bridge holding orders to confiscate her "for her own good".
>This upset her so much she committed emotional suicide

You can bet your ass that as soon as the Enterprise E limped back to port after fighting the Scimitar, that someone was already there, standing in the airlock, ready to confiscate B4 "for the state".

>>52142996
I'm actually surprised this wasn't in a TOS episode

>>52142908
>Also, phasers are shit weapons.

As the writers present them, phasers are shit. I'm also the anon who asked in the last thread that, given the phaser's alleged capabilities, why is it that everyone manages to miss so often.

>You can't possibly have any actual military experience and think Trek combat looks like actual modern armed conflict but even more dangerous and fast-paced.

I do have experience and I also think the depictions of Trek combat, both personal and ship, are complete shit. What's more I have repeatedly said as much in these threads.

TV, movies, and video games rely on spectacle so the writers provide that. However, that doesn't mean we need to assume that spectacle is the reality of the situation.

Dressing Trek crews as Teletubbies is as much mindless douchebaggery as Trek's depictions of combat.

>>52142996
>"Kirgok! Kill the red ones first!"

Actually it's more like:

"Kirgok! Kill the red ones first! But don't use any ranged weapons. Charge them instead and use this poorly designed sword because all of our lightspeed weapons can't be aimed for some reason."

Trek combat already is idiotic. Dressing the combatants like Teletubbies only adds to the stupidity. So, what's it to be? Add to the stupid or fix it?

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>>52143238
Well, you can always tacticool up.

>>52142864
>your genes are your property
This has disturbing implications for familial slavery.

>>52143337
It's basically a surrogate for the abortion debate, and in fact that episode got a lot of flack from pro-birth groups because of it. Your genetic material is your property, up until the point where they can be considered living independent beings, hence the difference between the not-yet-living clones and Thomas.

>>52142864
>His genetic material is his property therefore he has the right to do with it as he pleases

Except alter or improve it in any way because that would be evil for some raisin.

>>52142820
>>52142864

It's a really just a very, very shit episode.
I'd no more use it to judge stuff than I would Threshold for warp physics or Spirit Folk for holodeck operations.

>>52143472

Something, something, cosmic plan.

>>52143765
That really makes Star Trek feel creationist.
>THE HUMANOID BODY IS PERFECT
>BECAUSE SOMEONE DESIGNED IT THAT WAY BILLIONS OF YEARS AGO AND DIRECTED ALL EVOLUTION IN THE GALAXY TO THAT END
>DO NOT MEDDLE WITH IT OR YOU WILL BECOME EVIL

>>52143238
>"Kirgok! Kill the red ones first! But don't use any ranged weapons. Charge them instead and use this poorly designed sword because all of our lightspeed weapons can't be aimed for some reason."
This wouldn't bother me in the slightest if it wasn't a leading cause of Klingons doing nothing and then getting shot in the chest. I have no problem with combat being stupid, but you've got to make it work within your universe. Running down a hallway screaming with a melee weapon never, ever works, even with Trek's fisticuffs-happy combat tendencies, and no explanation is ever given for why a warrior civilization would be that objectively bad at war.

>>52143238
>So, what's it to be? Add to the stupid or fix it?
Since you appear to be criticising Star Trek for its unrealistic portrayal of space warfare, it sounds like you've already settled on the first one.

>>52143891

Here's some pertinent quotes from the transcript of the scene:

>PICARD: It is no longer a matter of how wrong Data was, or why he did it. The dilemma exists. We have to discuss the options. And please talk freely.
>WORF: There are no options. The Prime Directive is not a matter of degrees. It is an absolute.
>PULASKI: I have a problem with that kind of rigidity. It seems callous and even a little cowardly.
>PICARD: Doctor, I'm sure that is not what the Lieutenant meant, but in a situation like this, we have to be cautious. What we do today may profoundly affect upon the future. If we could see every possible outcome
>RIKER: We'd be gods, which we're not. If there is a cosmic plan, is it not the height of hubris to think that we can, or should, interfere?
>LAFORGE: So what are you saying? That the Dremans are fated to die?
>RIKER: I think that's an option we should be considering.
>LAFORGE: Consider it considered, and rejected.
>TROI: If there is a cosmic plan, are we not a part of it? Our presence at this place at this moment in time could be a part of that fate.
>LAFORGE: Right, and it could be part of that plan that we interfere.
>RIKER: Well that eliminates the possibility of fate.
>DATA: But Commander, the Dremans are not a subject for philosophical debate. They are a people.

Shame on LaForge for being drawn into Riker's "cosmic plan" nonsense, but points for both him and Pulaski for saying it's basically bullshit.

>>52144087

The rest of the scene, so it can be discussed in full.

>PICARD: So we make an exception in the deaths of millions.
>PULASKI: Yes.
>PICARD: And is it the same situation if it's an epidemic, and not a geological calamity?
>PULASKI: Absolutely.
>PICARD: How about a war? If generations of conflict is killing millions, do we interfere? Ah, well, now we're all a little less secure in our moral certitude. And what if it's not just killings. If an oppressive government is enslaving millions? You see, the Prime Directive has many different functions, not the least of which is to protect us. To prevent us from allowing our emotions to overwhelm our judgement.
>PULASKI: My emotions are involved. Data's friend is going to die. That means something.
>WORF: To Data.
PULASKI: Does that invalidate the emotion?
>LAFORGE: What if the Dremans asked for our help?
>DATA: Yes. Sarjenka's transmission could be viewed as a call for help.
>PICARD: Sophistry.
>PULASKI: I'll buy that excuse. We're all jigging madly on the head of a pin anyway.
>WORF: She cannot ask for help from someone she does not know.
>DATA: She knows me.
>RIKER: What a perfectly vicious little circle.
>DATA: We are going to allow her to die, are we not?
>PICARD: Data, I want you to sever the contact with Drema Four.
>(Data goes to a wall panel and taps in commands)
>COMPUTER: Isolating frequency.
>SARJENKA [OC]: Data. Data, where are you? Why won't you answer? Are you angry me? Please, please, I'm so afraid. Data, Data, where are you?
>PICARD: Wait. Oh, Data. Your whisper from the dark has now become a plea. We cannot turn our backs.

>Captain's log, stardate 42741.3. We are entering into orbit of Drema Four, the planet from which Data received the distress signal. Sensors indicate that the volcanic activity is increasing.

But, yes, at least some persons in the Federation are in favor of some sort of Creationist ideology. Two of them being Riker and Troi in this case.

>>52144005
Klingon society had a death wish and a bad case of human envy. I suspect they never truly recovered from the augment virus even if their facial features were coming back by the 2280s. That was a brilliant bit of retconning that explains both why they looked like Puerto Ricans in TOS and why they were such aggressive, stab-happy dumbasses in the 24th century. It would also explain how Klingon/Human hybrids are suddenly a lot more viable in the 24th century, when based on everything we know about Klingon biology a Klingon would have literally pulverized their human partner's genitals prior to that.

>>52144087
>Riker goes on about a cosmic plan like there is a god out there
>Completely ignoring the fact that he was briefly a Q

Or what if he wasn't, what if Riker, during that brief time, made a cosmic plan. The Riker plan. All he needed was a beard as the first step.

>>52143891
I'm able to think of a number of cyborg/engineered/altered evil guys and no good/okay ones come to mind. Well, other than their hardon for ascended energy beings.

But it's hard to say if that's a relevant philosophical thing native to Star Trek specifically or the more universal fact that it's easy to make cyborg parts look degenerate.

>>52144087
>we can't affect things because somebody else is doing things
Why are the pretty ones always complete fucking retards?

>>52144127
>PICARD: Data, I want you to sever the contact with Drema Four.
>PICARD: Wait. Oh, Data. Your whisper from the dark has now become a plea. We cannot turn our backs.
Did he just fucking pull an "It's okay to leave people to die if I don't have to listen to them die" on us?

What the fuck, Starfleet. I know space is hard, but get your shit together.

>>52144269
>Did he just fucking pull an "It's okay to leave people to die if I don't have to listen to them die" on us?
I'm willing to bet a lot of it is "I'm tired and helping will have no payoff and these aliens look ugly, lets go somewhere else."

>>52144167
On the contrary, that made Riker perfectly suited to say that line. He knows what it's like to be a god, and he knows humanity is not that.

>>52144269
>cyborg/altered good guys in media
Off the top of my head:
Julian Bashir
The Six Million Dollar Man
Samus Aran
Cyborg from DC Comics
Wolverine
Deadpool
Luke Skywalker
Anakin Skywalker (briefly, fall not related to cyborgification)
Ziggy from Xenosaga
Deckard from Blade Runner
Molly from Neuromancer
Teela from Ringworld
Spider-Man
Seven of Nine
Jean-Luc Picard (cyborg heart, and boy does that make this whole discussion awkward)

>>52144269
First it was "Data stop talking to under age girls on the internet." Then it was "Well now it's most decidedly a distress call and not just something we're saying to assuage Data's misconduct."

>>52144159
Huh. Being degenerate mutants as a result of Science Gone Too Far would fit their typical status as pushover bullies pretty well.

>>52144395
I meant in Trek, not media in general. Though this is related to my other point that they're rare everywhere, so you probably can't say much about Trek philosophy from that.

>Jean-Luc Picard (cyborg heart, and boy does that make this whole discussion awkward)
Come to think of it, didn't he have some kind of horrifying pain condition that was super difficult to treat also? Curing that might not have been in God's plan, bro.

>>52144403
They mentioned millions of lives earlier in the conversation, though.

>>52144167
>>52144372

My take on Riker's little "cosmic plan" deal is along the lines of the writers forgetting he'd been a Q. His perspective from that experience would have been interesting, but since the Q are not gods (in that, they are not responsible for the creation of the universe, do not generally accept or reward worship, and are not responsible for having created the myriad sapient life forms of the galaxy), any plan that the Q might have is merely their own machinations and not some divine dictum everyone must abide by.

It would however, have been interesting if Riker had said something along the lines of "My impressions from my time as a member of the Q continuum is that we should not involve ourselves in this. But since none of us are Q, and we have a duty to uphold the Prime Directive, I think we should decide whether or not we get involved based on that duty and how far we believe we are required to uphold it."

But that's not what happened. He effectively just says "if there's a divine plan, we shouldn't get involved because it's not part of the plan!" When the opposite could also be true. Or that there is no plan at all. And even if there was a plan, it's unknowable, and therefore we have to proceed on the assumption that there isn't one.

>>52144005
>This wouldn't bother me in the slightest if it wasn't a leading cause of Klingons doing nothing and then getting shot in the chest. I have no problem with combat being stupid, but you've got to make it work within your universe.

Exactly. Given all the stuff phasers can do in other situations, Klinks charging into melee range to use their scythes should have have holes blown through their torsos. That doesn't happen for two interconnected reasons

Reason 1 is that Trek writers, directors, etc, are too fucking lazy to follow the consequences of their own inventions. So lightspeed hand weapons miss far more often than hit and space battles are fought inside visual range. They can get away with this because of reason #2.

Reason 2 is that most Trek fans are too fucking stupid to care that the writers are too fucking lazy to properly use the technology of the universe. They want pew-pew, boom-boom, zoom-zoom stuff to watch while playing dress up.

I like Trek. I'm also honest enough to admit that 99.999% of Trek is a wasted opportunity. Whenever I think about Trek I'm reminded of a famous Ghandi quote.

Someone asked Ghandi what he thought about Western Civilization and he replied "I think it would be a good idea."

Trek is much the same. It's a good idea that has completely failed in practice.

>>52144614
>>52144167
>>52144087
You're ignoring that Riker completely reverses course his next line. It was conjecture, nothing more, because that session was set up for the purpose of philosophical conjecture. He was positing an idea, nothing more.

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>>52144087

Come on. We all know the real reason Picard decided to intervene Drema Four. It's because the Hot Chick Directive ALWAYS preempts the Prime Directive. Look at Kirk.

Sarjenka grew up to be Nikki Cox. If she'd grw up to be Lena Dunham, Picard would have nuked Drema Four from orbit.

>>52144748

No, he says "Well, that eliminates the possibility of fate." As though fate were actually a thing, or if it was, something we should give a shit about.

You could read it as him conceding, but that's not his tone in the episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mH-L6UCCAE

As I didn't upload the video, I won't apologize for the audio quality, but I imagine it has to do with circumventing content takedowns.

>>52144784
I'd violate the hell out of that Prime Directive.

>>52144857
>No, he says "Well, that eliminates the possibility of fate." As though fate were actually a thing, or if it was, something we should give a shit about.
Again, he was putting forward a philosophical question because that was the point of the meeting. That he actually believed it isn't a given. Not to mention he was just continuing from what Picard said.

>>52145321

So, what you're saying is that argument from ignorance is an acceptable stance?

That they should condemn an entire planet of people because:

>there's no evidence there isn't a cosmic force called fate
>there's no evidence there isn't a cosmic plan
>and that it's totally cool to make real-world, life and death decisions based on the above

If Riker doesn't believe in these things, he shouldn't have brought them up. They're not worth discussing. Not even for the audience's sake.

>>52145533
We're talking about a show where they had, up to that point, encountered numerous examples of races, individuals and civilizations with abilities far beyond that of humanity, and that's not including the examples from previous shows and movies. In such a situation it's perfectly valid to put forward the conjecture of whether or not a cosmic plan truly exists so that others can argue for or against it, and it took a total of four lines to everyone to agree that the existence of a cosmic plan, even if it existed, was irrelevant.

>>52145697
Let's also not forget the first rule of GMing - any plan your players can disrupt sucks by definition. If there really is a cosmic plan and it depends on humanity not fucking with it in any way, the planners are abject retards.

>>52142820
My opinion of the episode in question is irrelivent in the face of the fact that I can ABSOLUTELY see, in my mind, Frakes as Riker overdramatically shouting "MORE RIKERS WOULD DIMINISH MINE OWN SPLENDOR!" with a serious look on his face, and the image knocked me out of my chair laughing. Thank you for that.

>>52145770
I think this is the major impedance to GMing Trek games. Trek is a setting with rules, at least if you're playing a Starfleet crew. The prime directive is extremely prohibitive when your players decide to take the easy way out. There's only so much elasticity in Starfleet before you have to become out and out renegades.

Knowing my group as I do, having GM'd Rougue Trader and, more recently, edge of the Empire. I'm almost certain that they wouldn't get done for passive genocide or theoretical murder. Before the end of the first session one of them would be done for active genocide or pre-meditated murder.

Rutgers your group is suited to it or you have to find a way of making an alien campaign more fun. I'm toying with the notion of a Romulan or Cardassian campaign as Tal'Shiar or Obsidian Order, but honestly I can't find the energy to begin.

>>52145923
>Rutgers your group
*either

>>52145923
Do what I did and have the group as colonists who are human and other species but are technically unaffiliated with the Federation and therefore not governed by Starfleet, though they do deal with them from time to time.

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>>52143259
Furries... there is only answer.

>>52145923
Set it as a Maquis campaign. Genocidal murderhoboing is REQUIRED to beat the Dominion and save your little space empire.

>>52146004
>>52146069
Both solid suggestions that overlap. To that end, is there an anyway decent map of the DMZ?

>>52145697
>In such a situation it's perfectly valid to put forward the conjecture of whether or not a cosmic plan truly exists so that others can argue for or against it,
>and it took a total of four lines to everyone to agree that the existence of a cosmic plan, even if it existed, was irrelevant.
These two lines seem to work directly against each other. If it's really, really stupid, you probably shouldn't bring it up. If it's NOT really, really stupid, it should probably take more than four lines for everyone to agree that it's really, really stupid.

Either he's a dumbass or he's shitposting on the bridge. I'm not sure which is worse.

>>52146210
In the end they weren't debating over whether or not there was a cosmic plan, they just agreed that in that circumstance it didn't matter because:
a) If there isn't a cosmic plan then they should do what they want, or
b) If there is a cosmic plan then their own involvement is probably part of it

It's not a stupid conjecture given how much shit the Enterprise had gotten into in just a year and a half, in context.

>>52143706
Threshold was actually decanonized, however. That's how terrible it was.

(Just a few seasons later Tom Paris explicitly states that no one has ever gone Warp 10 before, even though in Threshold that exactly happened. This has been explained by the writers as a deliberate decanonization of Threshold)

>>52146195
I doubt it, considering it contained the Badlands... which also gives you the potential to pull your players asses out of the fire once or twice by having a pursuing Cardassian ship yanked off to the Delta Quadrant by the Caretaker and ripped apart in transit, if you need to do so to avoid a TPK.

>>52146195
Best you'll find is whatever's in the "Stellar Cartography" mapbook that was released a few years ago. Star Charts has some maps show that area but they're not as detailed as I'd like. I remember setting my campaign in the unaligned space "east" of DS9, that way the party had regular contact with the Federation, Cardassians, Tzenkethi, Maquis and other regional powers.

>>52146308

>Threshold was de-canonized

Point to an actual link where it was explicitly de-canonized and I'll accept it, rather than an off the cuff remark in an unrelated episode.

Threshold is universally reviled, but I've never seen any kind of source actually showing it was stricken from the canon. It's basically a Trek urban legend.

As an aside, Tom's ACTUAL line is:

>PARIS: I've never navigated a transwarp conduit. Any problems I should be aware of?

>sauce: http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/403.htm

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>>52146195
>>52146440
There's this map. Which I dislike intensely. Firstly it places the badlands on the opposite side of DS9 to the DMZ colonies. Secondly it creates a bizarre situation where the Cardassian barely ever expanded their territory coreward. Sure they spread in other directions but Cardassia is right next to the border with no apparent impedance to its expansion. Which leads us neatly to number 3, Cardassia and Bajor shouldn't be that close.

>>52146546
Cardassia and Bajor have to be somewhat close given how quickly Sisko was able to reach them in his ghetto warp-sailboat.

>>52146546

Even after Terok Nor is retaken, it's a series of raids and the rest of a season before the Federation can strike at Cardassia. There's no way it's next door to Bajor.

>>52146546
>chintoka is nowhere near Cardassia.

That's silly, chintoka is supposed to represent the stepping stone to Cardassia.

>>52141310
I want that bridge design to be the gold standard for Starfleet.

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>>52147209
I love how the TOS bridge (which is ultimately what the bridge descends from) was so good that it influenced IRL bridge design in the US Navy.

Any bridge that has all the bridge crew and their stations immediately viewable by the captain in his chair is A+ design.

>>52147351
Is it just me, or does the Defiant bridge layout look a hell of a lot like a modernized NX-01?

Also, all the seat should be heavily reinforced and secured to the deck, along with being able to strap in to them. Nothing trips my autism in Trek like having a seat at a station and someone goes flying from it. I'll even take the EPS overload all over my face just to stay secure in my seat.

>>52147351
>I love how the TOS bridge (which is ultimately what the bridge descends from) was so good that it influenced IRL bridge design in the US Navy.

I've read that claim for decades now but I've never seen any real proof. Nor have any of the bridges, COCs, or CICs I've stepped foot in ever shown any "hint" of it.

The 688, 725, 21, and 774 classes of sub don't follow the pattern. The 36 and 38 class CGNs didn't. The Burke, Perry, and Ticonderoga classes don't. Neither do any CVN up through the new Ford class. I've yet to work aboard the Zumwalt or the two new LCS types, but I know which way I'm betting..

So where is that TOS design used? Or is it just another urban myth?

>>52147450
I think the NX-01 did better by having the perimeter stations facing towards the viewscreen but there's definitely a similarity.

>>52147614
The Zumwalt, fittingly, has a Trek-like bridge from everything I've heard.
>also a Captain James Kirk

>>52147631
>The Zumwalt, fittingly, has a Trek-like bridge from everything I've heard.

Have you SEEN it? Or is it just more of what you've been told?

I've been reading and hearing the "Trek bridge copied by Navy" claim since the 70s, well before the DDG1000 boondoggle was even dreamed of, yet I've never seen a Trek-like bridge, COC (combined operation center), or CIC (combat information center).

Never. Subs or surface. Multiple classes. Designed in the 70s, 80s, 90s, or 00s. Built or rebuilt in the 70s, 80, 90s, 00s, or 10s. Never as in never ever.

So what influence did the TOS or any other Trek bridge have. Or is it an urban myth?

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>>52147209
Pretty much is. It's got a bit more space than the TOS bridge, but gains a second access door, and a nice big master system display.

And it completely fails to commit the sins of:
Obstructing the captain's view.
Pointless extra stations.
Continually manned stations without seating.
Too many height level changes.
Level changes with tight, easy to trip on stairs.
Level changes without barriers where no step is to be had.
Badly shaped consoles which require whole-body turning to fully use.

So, so many bad bridge designs have some or all of those in spades.

But that bridge? Beauty in perfect functionality. But then it's for an early Excelsior class, possibly the greatest of all ships.

So I've noticed a trend with the ST series (doubt that I'm the first to see this, doubt I'm the last):

For every series after TAS, the first two seasons are utter shit, then it picks up and gets great (or in Voyager's case, not absolute shit) for the rest of its run.

Anyone else worried that, now that we have the internet and Twitter and whatnot, people will hate the first two seasons of Discovery and get it cancelled before it can get good?

>>52148346
>people will hate the first two seasons of Discovery and get it cancelled before it can get good?

We can only hope so.

>>52147947
If I could pick one era and ship class it'd be an Excelsior between STIV and whenever they took the turtlenecks off the uniforms.

>>52148346
>Anyone else worried that, now that we have the internet and Twitter and whatnot, people will hate the first two seasons of Discovery and get it cancelled before it can get good?
This is exactly what happened with ENT. The only thing that gave it a third and fourth season was that it was UPN's flagship series.

>>52148346
The pattern breaks down under observation. TOS got bad in season 3, The Animated Series lasted two seasons and was ... well it wasn't good but I'll not condemn it totally because it gave us a good backstory episode for Spock that's still canon even if the rest was disavowed (pointlessly to be honest as there was a lot of perfectly typical TOS stuff in there).

TNG Season 1 is garbage to mediocre, 2 is garbage to Fucking Classic, 7 is 'oh fuck why did they stop accepting scripts from outside they clearly have no ideas left' tier, mostly carried from being too garbage by the strength of the characters that had been developed and one hell of a finale.

DS9 season 1 is kinda dire in parts but no-where near as dire as TNG season 1, and ends on a classic, hell even the pilot is pretty good. Season 2 is definitely not bad. 7 wobbles a lot depending on perspective on events and the occasional dire episode but still contains some seriously great everything for a lot of it.

Voyager season 1 and 2 are weirdly TOS in many places, with stupid villains and a lot of planet-of-the-hats stuff and some actual classic sci-fi guff going on with robots and SCIENCE! But mostly shitty especially anything Kazon related. Then season 3 is the premonition of just how fucking boring Voyager gets later on, briefly saved by most of season 4, season 5 swings a lot between garbage and ok and then 6 and 7 settle on fucking garbage, and even ruining even a previously good character in The Doctor by just making them obnoxious and one-note. And giving us Fair Haven, a sin never to be redeemed because at least Dr. Crusher Fucks A Space Ghost was only one episode and never revisited.

I think Discovery will have a typical half-length first season and will then tank. I don't think it's really possible to have a garbage first season and survive even with the Star Trek brand these days. If it is garbage that is. Might somehow not be. Somehow.

>>52148590
Let's be honest with ourselves here, if TNG was to air today, it would get cancelled and never have a second season.

>>52149324

Pretty much. Season 1 is all over the place, and the season finale is WTF level bizarre.

>>52149324

Too true. Series are given little chance these days.

I'm beginning to wonder if the Netflix route may be smarter choice for any future Trek series than the broadcast route.

>>52149558
Does CBS even have an online streaming service? I doubt they'd license out the franchise to Netflix or Amazon.

>>52149586

Beats me. They needn't license the franchise to Netflix or Amazon. They could just distribute it through Netflix and Amazon.

>>52149586
They do and Discovery will be exclusively on it.

>>52149586
>>52149673
>>52149721

This isn't one hundred percent true.

The situation is like this:

The first episode of Discovery will air on CBS networks. After that, in NA it will air on CBS's new streaming service, CBS All Access as the flagship program. Other parts of the world will be able to watch it some time later on Netflix.

It will not be coming to Netflix in NA any time soon that we know of.

>>52149787

Allow me to amend my previous post with scratching out NA and replacing it with just the U.S.A and Canada.

>Source: https://media.netflix.com/en/press-releases/netflix-to-beam-new-cbs-star-trek-television-series-in-188-countries-around-the-world

>>52149787
>This isn't one hundred percent true.

Do tell.

>The situation is like this:
>The first episode of Discovery will air on CBS networks. After that, in NA it will air on CBS's new streaming service...

Oh perfect... That's the same business model that fucked over ENT.

Paramount needed/wanted ENT to carry UPN until it could walk on it's own, much like how "Married with Children" accidentally carried Fox, and now CBS is going to try and use "Discovery" to launch it's streaming service.

Abso-fucking-lutely perfect. Not only are they cramming SJW virtue signalling into the scripts, now they're pinning the launch of the streaming service on the series. I agree with the Anon who predicted a scaled back first season followed by a lingering death

>It will not be coming to Netflix in NA any time soon that we know of.

I didn't say "Discovery" would be coming to Netflix, asshiole.

I suggested that a Netflix/Amazon style distribution might give a new Trek series time to find it's stride and get over the "1st Seasons Suck" hurdle.

It doesn't matter anyway. "Discovery" is DOA.

>>52149977

>asshole

There's no need for namecalling. I wasn't calling you a liar nor insinuating such. I was merely stating what the current situation is.

Also, as I amended in my second post, Discovery IS coming to Netflix in 188 countries (see the link in that post), but NOT to the U.S. or Canada.

>DOA

In the U.S. and Canada, definitely, where most of its viewership likely comes.

>>52150069
>I wasn't calling you a liar nor insinuating such
>This isn't one hundred percent true.

Sure thing, asshole.

>DOA
>In the U.S. and Canada, definitely, where most of its viewership likely comes.

At least you got that right.

>>52150128

Okay queefmeister, if you'll notice, I was actually responding to >>52149721 who claimed that Discovery would only be on CBS's streaming service. Which isn't true.

Have a nice night.

>>52150162
>I was actually responding

You responded to THREE posts, shitstain, one of which >>52149673 was MINE.

Next time, wipe the cum out of your eyes before posting. Enjoy your night too.

>>52150201

Don't get so much sand in your vagina. You could have easily understood the context if you paid attention to the posts I was responding to, rather than banging on the keyboard like a raging geriatric chimpanzee suffering from glaucoma.

Pleasant. Dreams.

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Jesus Christ, that escalated quicker than the fan fiction discussion.

I'm starting to suspect that nerd rage could be a more potent source for FTL than even bistromathics...

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>>52150238

I was having fun with it. It was a misunderstanding. They happen.

>>52147614
>>52147835
tom clancy pls go
stay go

>>52148438
>mmmmmm I dislike change mmmmmm

Shouldn't the prefix for Starfleet ships be something like FSS or SFS rather than USS? I get that it's an artifact of Star Trek originally being Space America, United Star Ship just sounds silly.

A personal and entirely silly pet peeve.

>>52151861
One which i share.

>>52151861
Federation Star Ship? By the same logic the US Navy should be States Star Ship.

>>52151861
For as much as I hate Enterprise, it's interesting that they established that Starfleet predated the Federation and only became the de facto Federation military because the capital of the Federation was Earth, because that means all the naval traditions being Earth-centric actually makes sense.

>>52151943
United States' Ship, actually.

>>52151943
It's United States Ship. So you're not far off. I'd even settle for United Federation Ship. But leaving out any signifier of the Federation or Starfleet bothers me.

>>52151979
>But leaving out any signifier of the Federation
"United" Federation of Planets

>>52151987
It's a stretch and you know it.

>>52151967
The NX-01 is never referred to with the prefix USS. Neither is any other United Earth vessel, for that matter.

The prefix SS is bandied about a bit, but generally when referring to colony ships and cargo haulers.

>>52151943
The US is regularly referred to just so, the United States. In general, the Federation is either referred to as the Federation or the United Federation of Planets. Nobody says they're from the United, because that sounds like you're part of a cult.

>>52152100
Or fans of a soccer team.

>>52152100
Where are you that the US is never referred to as "The States"?

>>52152116
We never refer you as "the states".
We refer to you guys as either America, USA or Yanks.

t:Finn

>>52152116
Over here, "the states" is fairly uncommon. I think that may be an internal abbreviation, used predominantly by Americans, in the same way that the French use "La Republique".

>>52152059
Actually, once it was recommissioned and refitted for post-Federation-founding service in the Federation's Starfleet, the NX-01 (Columbia Class) was re-christened the S.S. Enterprise.

>>52152116
If a TV presenter or politician is talking about America, they refer to it as the United States or United States of America. Colloquially we'll call them Yanks or Americans. The only people I've met that say "the States" are American and Canadian foreign exchange students.

>>52124906
underrated af

>>52152896
Fleet admiral (you) lines up pretty well with any of the hero characters from 40k or 30k so it holds water.

>>52151861
Because the full name of the Federation is the United Federation of Planets, and therefore it builds United Star Ships.

>>52152188
But the NX-01 was rendered unable to go to warp again after the final battle of the Earth-Romulan War and so and decomissioned, and became part of the Smithsonian's orbital annex, a museum-ship.

The first Columbia-class was the Endeavor. Which was a refitted NX-class and became the lead ship of the Columbia class, but its registry number is NCC-06.

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>The Mirror ENT Episodes that start with the alternate intro sequence.

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>>52118601
Which episode was the Cheers cross-over again?

>>52154675
>no BSG Blood&Chrome style miniseries set in the mirror universe

>>52154675
Goddamn, I fucking love anything involving the Mirror Universe, but holy shit the CG is shit. Like, it fits so well up until the TE's moon landing and the Enterprise in combat - both of which look like they were made in fucking Source Filmaker.

/stg/, how the fuck does ENT have worse visual effects than VOY and DS9? Weaker budget a sense of which, in fairness, seems to pervade the entire show, or did they just forget the tricks that 90s Trek learned about how to make things seem convincing?

>>52155437
I think it was trapped in that time between new cg and old cg. Most shows from that time have pretty poor cgi.

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>>52135716
Imma go with pic related. Especially the 2160's version with name tapes.

The WOK version looks like what an established navy would wear.

The ENT uniforms look like what a bunch of pioneering astronauts would wear.

>>52156317
She looks like a porn actress in a low-budget porn scifi parody movie.

>>52156399
First pic I could find of that particular uniform version. So sue me.

>>52156399
I see what you mean but I think that's the hair and the lighting. That really flat old TV lighting is really bad for doing that at times. And the hair style just clashes with the practical look of the uniform. Which is open at the front in a way that is slightly too informal.

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>>52156317
Also, EV suits were awesome.

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>>52156511
I still think the WoK era EV suits were the best.

>>52156586
Shits abouts to get Daved

>>52156586
Eh, those look more like hazmat/chemical suits than real space suits imo. The Enterprise suits have that "SPACE" look.

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>>52156757
>those look more like hazmat/chemical suits
That's because they are, simply being the engineering suits with a helmet added.

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>>52156317
She looks similar to Mika Tan (the porn actress).

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>>52156511
>>52156586
You know if they have in game future versions of the EV suit I hope there go a bit 'Iron Man' with the look and give them like built in thrusters, too.

>>52156919
Great taste, son.

>>52156930
They do have built-in thrusters, you use them during "Boldly They Rode" (post to post) and "A Step Between Stars" (free flight)

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>>52156985
Doesn't even need porn, shit's hot as is.

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>>52157224

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>>52157228

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>>52157237

>>52157258
Is Satoposting a thing now?

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>>52157258

>>52157703
It should be.

>>52156987
>Boldly They Rode
>>52157224
>>52157228
>>52157237
>>52157258

God, would I ever ride her...

>>52138716
Try using The odyssey dress jacket with the suggested Line and Flag officer colours and you end up with a sort of Nuveau-WoK uniform that's pretty aesthetic.

>>52157841
A pity none of the new combadges look better than the TNG Film one.

>>52157224
>>52157228
>>52157237
>>52157258
Never really noticed this, but...any relation to Grace Park? As in, best grill from Voyager-with-arguing-and-killer-robots?

>>52158293
No. Remember, every girl who comes from South Korea has a last name 'Park'.

>in the Badlands battlezone pewpewing Terran shits in my dinky little NX Refit
>Universe-class swoops in ahead of me
Now I know how Worf felt in the Defiant at the beginning of First Contact.

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>>52157707

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>>52158750
Nobody told me that they're all fucking massive

New Thread
>>52159538
>>52159538
>>52159538
>>52159538

>>52159061
Why are all of your screenshots fucked up

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>>52159591
I run STO off of a piece of crap laptop so I edit them to look like that. In previous threads a number of people have requested that I edit their screenshots to look similar. I like the style it produces so I've kept doing it.