Warmachine/Hordes General WarmaHordes WMH

File: received_1319539594799287.jpg (30KB, 329x464px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 329x464px

He's coming home, boys!

>>52108754
Holy fuck.

That can't really be him, can't it?

>>52108794
It's his sword and facial features, I can't see how it could be anyone else.

What's you favorite infantry unit warmahordes general?

>>52108754
Goddam goreshade is getting a 4th iteration?

Meanwhile Gorten is still waiting to go epic...

I'm trying to decide between using Amon or Tristan 2 for playing with a ton of jacks. What would be the better choice?

>>52109026
Thematically I love the Electromancers even though I haven't used them in forever. Gun Mages are also a really cool concept.

>>52108754
>>52109037

Everyone's waifu Kaelyssa really deserves an epic by now...it's like she got a door prize resculpt for killing Zaal.

>>52109052
Amon, every time. Mobility + Synergy > True Sight and healing 1d3

File: 1479297104452.jpg (65KB, 471x482px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 471x482px

>>52108754
Scyrah truly is amazing if she managed to slap undeath and fedora tipping out of him in one fell swoop.

>>52109188
Isn't Manifest Destiny good though?

File: kaelyssa_night_s_whisper_by_annacory-d8onmk8.jpg (549KB, 1024x1448px) Image search: [Google]

549KB, 1024x1448px

>>52109139
Mk3 gave her rules a fresh coat of paint. Does that count?

>>52109266
Not as good as Synergy is.

Grymkin look awful, and the forums are somehow worse than before.

What the fuck did I come back to?

>>52109266
Also, Tristan has nothing in the way of threat extension, where Amon has debatably the best threat extension spell in the game.

>>52109465
a company in the middle of remaking itself, it looks like. We're in that ugly "we're working on it" phase, where everyone screams about how the company is dying and jumps ship, then gets mad when the game catches back up and now they've got to rebuy all the shit that they sold.

File: KaePin.jpg (263KB, 578x900px) Image search: [Google]

263KB, 578x900px

>>52109139
>Everyone's waifu

Yep.

>>52109465
You'll get to the acceptance stage soon enough, we all did.

>>52109465
PP is having a seizure.
At least they picked a moment for it after they cleared all the broken shit from meta.

>>52108676
Is this the place to ask about IKRPG specifically? I've only read the first section of the history and some of the rules here and there, and have a certain type of game in mind for the campaign I'll eventually run. Since it's quite a politically dense setting and I don't want to throw all that away by just having dungeon crawling and combat, I thought downtime would be a good solution, so the party do their normal jobs and gain certain benefits and contacts from that but then are called in (as an A-team basically) to deal with stuff that props up in the wilds or wherever else. For the general structure I'm planning to run small modules, from 1-3 sessions or so per, that are fairly combat heavy and then downtime between them. I may take a larger module and split it up or several smaller ones, I haven't read any yet so it depends on which ones are good and fitting.

Now I don't think there are mechanics for downtime as there is in some other games, but I had the idea to reward player research and connections by giving them hints, information, help, and so on. Looking at the Connections, it seems like a good fit for this. So basically how I'd do it is the players have their connections as well as special activities or places they can go to seek out information or help. Each connection has 0-2 (most of them 1) thing gained, for example if they go to the library they may get the history of the dungeon and thus have some idea of what monsters there are, if there are traps, and so on. If someone has a connection to an intelligence network, they may learn that a spy has gone to the dungeon and if still alive can give them help in the form of knowledge or even material aid - and if dead he may have carried a journal. A character connected to a mechaniks organization might get told that it was once used as a repair site for jacks, recieving a key that gives them a access to a workshop safe from monsters and other dangers.

cont.

>>52110000
>cont.
I also had the thought of putting timers on different quests, so they could choose to research and prepare more but face the risk of the situation escalating as a result, though it seems a bit complex and arbitrary. Does this seem good? Any tips on handling connections in general (as the system is larger than just what I'm planning to use it for)?

Anyone have the June retail solicitations?

Any sign of the cygnar pdf?

>>52108676
Should've been "Fuck the Press Gang" edition.

>>52110000
>>52110019
Seems cool m8.

File: received_1323027637783816.jpg (70KB, 720x960px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 720x960px

Get hyped faggots.

Okay so seriously how do I beat Ossrum? Like, I won my game against him today because he underestimated the reach of Molik Karn, but holy shit my board was being pasted two shit colour shades of Sunday by these 6 point 12/18 RAT6 RNG12 pieces of shit who boost everything. How do I beat that if my opponent doesn't fuck up?

>>52111007
You can bring Goreshade back to life, but you'll never take the bastard out of him.

Also, those antennas better serve a fucking purpose or else I'm filing em off.

>>52111007
Ghyrshill1, Sellout of The Retribution

>>52111029
You Don't.

>>52111007
Any stats revealed or is it just fluff?

>>52111191
>Try and gum up his board with Karax
>Top fucking lel bulldoze at base and Blasters spraying everything down

>Put up my Krea's bubble
>Top fucking lel all the Gunners are rolling 16.5 on average to hit anyway, then 22.5 on damage

>Can't reach his shit most turns because it's RNG12
>Even if I manage to get close he just pops feat and gets +3ARM on top of a bunch of other free shit

Like oh my god you could drop their RAT by 1 and increase their points cost and they'd STILL be fucking retarded.

File: 17203234_1420943811311331_3809007794156034877_n.jpg (78KB, 834x960px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 834x960px

8 box gators are back boys

File: Kozlov1_7582).png (176KB, 403x657px) Image search: [Google]

176KB, 403x657px

I thought about trying to run some Greylords in my Kozlov list. Primarily, I'd like to have an option to fix MAT, but the spray is also nice to unjam the Shocktrooper (which is their bane, btw).

>>52111007
Mind scanning the fluff as well?

>>52111820
So?

I play Skorne. Reivers or Brigands?

File: FullSizeR1.jpg (63KB, 1242x370px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 1242x370px

So how does the general feel about the fact PP does not consider us a valid sounding board for ideas and criticism of their game?

TL:DR if you're not Reddit or a pre approved FB group they don't want to hear you speak

>>52111820
Nice. Will the Exemplar theme force make bastions and cinerators 8 as well?

>>52112722
This surprises you how?

>>52111903
I don't have the NQ I'm afraid, found the pic on FB

>>52112722
Unsurprised, mostly. We have a certain reputation and devs usually don't like to associate with that, nevermind the fact that the official forums are a heap of garbage with any actual insight being few and far between.

>>52112722
So they decentralized discussion of their game and then say they don't read anything unless it's in certain places?

>>52112855
Nice post time.

>>52112722
4chan is possibly the worst place to do anything other than yelling at people and find material for masturbation.

>>52110402
The link is in the previous thread. Check the Archive

>>52112855
the coziest post time

>>52111820
>getting what they should've had from start
>benefits

Shit, I just cannot see the glass half full anymore

>>52112985
I really like it for discussions and gathering opinions and comments without weight, compared to the alternatives at least. Reddit is great for finding some cool fan art or the most popular content/news/whatever, but it's horrible for discussions with more than 2 participants (which is most). 4chan also doesn't care about appearances, if you post horrible art people will be honest and say it's shit for example, and while it's slightly too obsessed with porn for my interests it is better than Reddit with its yay-sayers. People here also have a good sense of humor and I like the community even if it takes some getting used to and it is somewhat strange.

>>52112722
I'd rather not have the loud idiots here trying to influence the devs, personally.

>>52113247
4chan has a lot of stigma from its less than savory boards that holds it back from wide appeal.

>>52113270
Yeah I'm talking exclusively about /tg/ here, some others are cool but /pol/, /b/ etc. are pretty terrible.

>>52113309
/tg is legit awful.

>>52113476
It's mostly just peculiar imo, though it might be worse now than in the past.

>>52113265
Don't other idiots influence them through Facebook, podcasts and at cons?

>>52113634
No, You Just Got Used To It.
It's awful.

>>52112722

The whole beauty of being anonymous is that we really wouldn't know if he was here in the first place.

>>52111820

On one hand this gives me some hope that maybe the Ogrun theme force will also have similar box boosting.

On the other hand, this really drives home how lackluster the new Legion themes were. I still have no idea who thought it was a good idea to make the selling point of the Nephilim theme Unyielding when half of them do not want to be in dedicated melee combat.

>>52112722
After the last few threads, it's not very hard to believe
Constant whining and people saying they are leaving

>>52111007
I'm done with this game. This is the last insult towards Cryx that I can take.

>>52113794
>ded gaem

>>52114793
He's partisan tho

>>52115177
Only mercenaries can be partisans.

>>52115247
Old Witch says hello, and also that you're wrong.

>>52115291
Old Witch 2 is Grim Harvest, Old Witch 3 is Khador.

>>52114793
Quit the game because of a fluff related plot twist? Really? Especially considering he was only using the Nightmare Empire to further his Ios related goals? Shouldn't you be happy he isn't draining your resources anymore?

File: ha ha oh Zaal.jpg (102KB, 300x269px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 300x269px

>>52111007
Holy shit, man, I am fucking laffing so hard. The elvish gods get shit fucking DONE even when they're in a coma.

Vyros must be absolutely fucking livid.

>mfw Skorne try to bring niggas back to life and all they get is nuclear pain ghosts

>>52115177

just look at him, you'd have to be fucking retarded to think he also works for Cryx

>>52111007
I wonder if it's gonna be something like the elvish gods coming back and giving him his body/life back, or if he's going to have had a master plan that allowed him to come back to life after he got what he needed from Cryx

>>52116086
Well, he went in to the Fane, and the Champion of Scyrah walked out. We thought the latter figure might be him, but now it's pretty much confirmed.

Which means Scyrah almost certainly restored him to life and gave him elflightenment.

>>52108676
Can the lore people update me on the status of Retribution, or to be more precise, Nyssor?

Is he still frozen in Khador or did Retribution actually manage to break into the Greylord fortress?

File: HYPE.gif (1MB, 250x141px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 250x141px

>>52111007
>first elves get Lich Lord Elara
>now they have 4shade the Balling

Move aside Cryx, step off Grymkin, Ret is hosting the dead man's party this year.

>>52116315
>Is he still frozen in Khador or did Retribution actually manage to break into the Greylord fortress?

He never got to the fortress IIRC.

Ret intercepted Zerkova's convoy en route and stole him back. He was brought into Ios by Ossyan, who promptly had all the credit swept out from under him by Vyros.

>>52116381
Is Ossyan the guy who got his ass kicked by Goreshade, Skorne and the Ret higher-ups constantly shit on him?

So, is Retribution done in Khador for the moment or are they still focusing their efforts there? Last I remember is that Skorne is knocking at the door.

>>52116462
>Is Ossyan the guy who got his ass kicked by Goreshade

Yes. Though I guess he sort of won that by getting Nyssor away, even if Goreshade beat him up.

>Skorne

We haven't seen him fighting any Skorne.

>and the Ret higher-ups constantly shit on him?

Yep.

>So, is Retribution done in Khador for the moment or are they still focusing their efforts there?

Mostly done for now. Though they have lots of Nyss returning to Ios now, and there are Ret people helping them leave Khador.

If there's any more important fighting with Khador, I imagine it'd be in Llael. I doubt Ios likes having Khador close to its borders, especially after they tried to steal Nyssor. Ios liked having Llael there because Llael was a minor, relatively respectful nation.

>Last I remember is that Skorne is knocking at the door.

Supposedly the Skorne were turned away in a ridiculously decisive manner after Goreshade made it to the Fane. Mostly everyone assumed that Scyrah woke up an personally kicked the Skorne out. But hey, maybe it was Goreshade that did the kicking.

File: stalin dance.gif (2MB, 330x275px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 330x275px

>>52111007
>all this hype
Is Ghyrrshyld going to make Ios great again?

>>52116569
So overall, Retribution is doing pretty well in the grand scheme of things (well, as well as they can I guess)?

They don't seem to be getting mauled like Cygnar (who are getting their asses kicked by Cryx and Skorne), Khador (who are getting their asses kicked by the Protectorate, Cephalyx/Cryx and Llael resistance) and Trolls (who are always getting their asses kicked).

Retribution and Ios are most certainly not doing okay. In fact, one could argue they are indeed the worst off when it comes to demographics and strategic assets.

>Elven reincarnation cycle is fucked to hell
>Soulless are still being born in increasing rates
>Several Iosan gods are MIA - or KIA according to Goreshade
>Both remaining Iosan gods are in comas and their health is getting worse
>Skorne have not only broken into Ios, but also damaged massive fortifications, killed god knows how many, started enslaving others and taken up residence within the borders.
>The illusion of myth that Ios is impenetrable has been destroyed by the Skorne invasion exposing Ios as a potential target to any other kingdom interested in invading

Never mind that Ios population - as noted at the start of Mk2 - was approximately 1 million Iosans total (including soulless). Given that the vast majority of these are non-combatant, that gives Ios a significantly smaller military force than any other kingdom.

Demographically, they are fucked. Its just a matter of time.

>>52116631
After the Skorne kicked Vinter out they mostly stopped attacking Cygnar and started settling old grudges with Ios.

>>52116631

Khador is definitely not getting it's ass kicked. The world map supports this.

OH NO PROTECTORATE TOOK THE EASTERN HALF OF LAELL

Khador never wanted anything east of the dividing river, this is even in the original d20 fluff, they wanted to leave a buffer state between its new boundary and ios.

>>52117624
It's not getting it's ass kicked, but after Julius got crowned, proposed to the last leallese princess, and had the northern army roundhouse kick Khador's forces in the thornwood, Khador's on it's back foot at the moment.

Also, true lorefags may know better than I, but isn't The Butcher's motivation that he's in love with the queen? If it's true, then both Zoktavir and Sorscha are gonna be mad after the queen's wedding.

Also, also, how is Karchev after the Cryxian torture event? Is he all better now?

>>52118599
Wasn't Karchev strapped to a makeshift body and allowed back into the fight against the Necrofactorum despite Strakhov's wishes?

How do they consistently manage to get flash on the most delicately detailed parts of the model instead of the flat undetailed spaces right next to them?

Will Rhul ever get off their asses and do anything of significance in the fluff? I mean fluff-wise are they not one of the most formidable of the countries/factions?

File: Kozlov1_75 (2).png (202KB, 409x699px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 409x699px

Hey guys, I want to make a fluffy list loosely based on this story about Kozlov: http://privateerpress.com/files/PathofHonorPathofBlood.pdf

Things that were there for sure:
- His Battlebox (1 Juggernaut, 1 Decimator)
- A bunch of peasants (represented by Kossites)
- Iron Fangs

Aesthetically this looks awesome on the table (People in Iron Fang armor, people in furs and the three guys in Iron Fang armor AND furs), but the Gobber Tinker is pissing me off so bad. Why is the god damn Decimator so friggin' expensive?

>>52109052
Do you prefer reading a book or riding a bike?

>>52111007
>The Reborn
>It's not Mordikaar
I'm a bit mad. Like 17% mad.

>>52113270
Good. The boards that went to utter shit are that way explicitly because of their wide appeal.

>>52114793
Don't worry. On the plus side you can finally play all your banes. In Ret.

>>52120031
Fluff-wise, they are the most insular faction. The Rhulic characters we see active in the world are actually outlier in their society. More than likely, the nation of Rhul will do nothing until provoked and noone is willing to poke the bear.

>>52121134
Well, that's as close as you'll get to playable with Yuri&co under Kozlov.
The only way I can see to improve it is swapping one Juggernaut and something for second big infantry unit, either fangs or uhlans, to hotswap Fury.

File: 34056_Nightmare_WEB.jpg (343KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

343KB, 600x600px

Which Cryx model is the best design and why is it Nightmare?

>>52120031
Why would they? They are far better off just getting filthy rich via trade. Why make one of your trade partners your enemy?

File: 34093_ErebusWEB.jpg (157KB, 520x520px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 520x520px

>>52121619
It isn't even the coolest Slayer.

>>52112722
>proven cheater calling the kettle black

>>52120031
>are they not one of the most formidable of the countries/factions?
So long as Gunners remain unnerfed, correct.

>>52121975
I'm not even sure they're the problem here. Without Assram removing any of their weaknesses they're basically 2/3 of a Charger for 2/3 of the price.

>>52121993
What I don't understand is why they gave a single caster 6 of the most powerful spells in the game with zero duds.
>Bullet Dodger
Should pretty fucking obviously be against ranged and magic attacks but just gives a flat +2DEF
>Energizer
Xerxis1 just gained the ability to move a single model 2" by spending 2 fury. This spell is about 10x better
>Fire for Effect
Free damage
>Snipe
In Hordes this is a self cast animus
>Stranglehold
Probably the best single target nuke in the game
>Unstoppable Force
"It is impossible to tie up my warjacks, and I can pull all sorts of bullshit especially with my +3SPD feat"

What the fuck were they smoking when they put Ossrum next to pre-errata Morghoul2 and thought, "Yeah, these are as good as each other"?

>>52122051
Yes, exactly. But wait, there's more. Tactician and the feat are crazy good. His only downsides are his Focus value and that there's not really a good theme force for him.

I'm over Morghoul2 though. Yeah, they fucked him up, but he's fixed now so that's fine.

>>52117041
>Skorne have not only broken into Ios, but also damaged massive fortifications, killed god knows how many, started enslaving others and taken up residence within the borders.

IIRC the Skorne are out now, right?

I thought MKIII fluff started with them having been pushed out of Ios after their supply lines collapsed and 'the champion of Scyrah' emerged.

>>52122336
I would be interested; Does the Iossan army look different from Retribution, outside of organization?

Do they have different uniforms, banners, that kind of jazz.

>>52122578
Ios' army is made up of the individual forces of each noble house. Presumably they all have their own banners, uniforms, etc. Rhyslyrr or whatever they're called have black-armoured, scimitar-wielding dragoons.

>>52122336

They're hanging on to some toeholds, apparently.

>>52112248

Brigands with Rasheth, Morghoul2 or Xekaar. Reivers with the rest.

>>52118599
>Also, true lorefags may know better than I, but isn't The Butcher's motivation that he's in love with the queen?

Butcher's motivation is... complicated. He's got serious mental health problems (dude straight up hallucinates regularly). He has massive amounts of guilt about what happened to his fiance and has seemingly mentally pushed all of his loyalty onto Khador and the Empress in some weird attempt at redemption through patriotism. He has on at least one occasion hallucinated the Empress as Lola, so in his mind she seems to be a central figure in his madness, embodying both his desire to redeem himself to his dead love as well as his country. I don't think he sees her romantically, so much as a figure to be served and protected in his quest for redemption. The Butcher novella goes into his head a lot and it really paints him as a somewhat complicated and very mentally unwell figure, so pinpointing his exact motivation is hard.

>Also, also, how is Karchev after the Cryxian torture event? Is he all better now?
I think blowing up the Necrofactorium with his mind went a long way toward helping him recover. Also, regardless of his physical state, he's going to be going into battle regardless. The man will not stay down.

>>52111820
>8 box gaytors are back
SAY NO MO.

>>52118599
>Also, also, how is Karchev after the Cryxian torture event?

Extra pissed.

>>52121447
I thought either Jack or the Great Bears would make for targets.

>>52122785
Okay, but why does he have two dogs?

>>52124870
Having 2 bitches in tow is commonplace. Just look at Morghoul3.

To the lore questions, the Skorne invasion of Ios has been confirmed to have completely fallen apart due to two factors. The first as the "unknown champion of Scyrah" (Redeemed Goreshade) sticking it to their main force hardcore. The second and probably more important event was Rathrok's awakening and the summoning of the Devourer Wurm, which produced earthquakes and other natural disasters throughout half of Immoren and leveled all of the Skorne's fortresses and supply lines in an hour. Judging by the old chart of where the Skorne were, Xerxis is going to need his own story for why exactly he isn't terribly screwed.

>>52125505
It's fine Mordikaar is going to save him then reveal he is memekin

>>52125505
>Mordikaar's face when Devourer Wurm
Was Mordikaar's existence really so abhorrent that Wurmwood needed to summon the cunt?

Wait, the Wurm is on the world now? How did the world not explode yet?

Also, wasn't Circle's job to keep the Wurm AWAY from the plane by trying to keep everything in balance by picking fights with everyone?

I'm so confused.

>>52125551
Can't wait for Mordikaar "Permavore is for faggots" Void Spirit

>>52125577
He comes, he eats mordikaar and then goes back home to clog the toilet.

>>52125579
I swear to god if we don't get a new caster called Mordikaar, the Reborn, I will kick a puppy. Like, really hard.

>>52125577
Circle really REALLY wanted to kill Mordikaar. Like you have no idea. First Mohsar went to assassinate him, didn't get it done, so Wurmwood just said fuck it you know what, how about Satan eats him.

>>52125613
>Kick a puppy celebration
True hoksune. Remember to also lit it's balls on fire for true hoksune celebration.

>>52124870
Dogs were about to be put down and butcher said that he wanted them.

The dogs actually bite butcher but he doesn't give a shit.

>>52125628
Mohsar did want to neutralize Mordikaar (since Mordikaar explained that killing him would be bad news) which is why he punted him into the desert with a miniature sun. Mordikaar ened up being called to the place where Rathrok was awakening because his Void Portal was the most convenient route for Orboros to manifest on Caen, and then he got eaten. To the guy asking why Caen didn't explode, the Wurm was only there for about half an hour and was not fully manifested before Doomshaper and Mohsar did a ritual to kick it back into Urcaen. In that time period its arrival unleashed natural disasters across half of the continent and destroyed a ton of things, like all of the Skorne supply lines in Western Immoren, for instance.

>>52126033
>Literally requires the intervention of a god to stop the Skorne empire
Not bad, Makeda.

>>52126033
Is there some kind of way to prevent this from happening again or do we have to live with the fact that Circle has an easy story cop-out to every single problem by just throwing people into the wurm?

>>52126267
As far as I know it was a one-time event and was Wurmwood's plan over thousands of years culminating to wipe out civilization. Then Doomshaper and Mohsar undid it. Also, it was a combination of Mordikaar's void portal, Rathrok's awakening, and an alignment of Immoren's moons that let it happen. Those circumstances are likely impossible to reproduce any time soon.

>>52126253
You live by the DEM, you die by the DEM. Plus the failure of Skorne to stop the ritual at Scarleforth Lake ensured the invasion would fail. Zaal and Hexeris just didn't tell Makeda that fact.

>>52126362
>Public enemies #1 and #3 didn't tell Makeda something important
Is not big surprise.

>>52124878
Underrated post.

>>52122604
Rhyslyrr most certainly does not use scimitars. Here's a rundown of Iosan military houses:

>Rhyslyrr
Archers
Trained to hit a target on a moonless night on long distances
Guard the Gate of Mists and Mistbough Forest
Wear long black tunics with dark violet facing, and black leather armor
Symbol is the leaf and 3 arrows of Lurynsar
Many are renowned hunters
Stormfalls are supposed to be based on Rhyslyrr fighting styles

>Silowuyr
Defenders of Shyrr
Call themselves "Sureyssa" which means something roughly akin to "Blooded Ones"
Very ritualistic
Must take oaths that they will give their lives in defense

>Ellowuyr
Swordsmen
Swear an oath to each other, banning sex and marriage while under service
Aggressive
Founded Aeryth Ellowuyr

>Issyen
Guard the Gate of Storms
Wield long spears with jagged points
Ride fast horses
Wear black banded plate armor edged in gold and visored, crested helmets that cover the face
Legitimately racist and hate non-elves
Were pro-Goreshade in the civil war

>Vyre
Renowned masters of theosophy, astrology, occultism, magic and alchemy
Often tutor other wizards/alchemists in Iosan society
Has a wing called Nymyn which deals with Fane Priests, the Fanes and matters of the divine
Plus it was Goreshade and Ossyan's house

>>52126545
>House Shyeel Battle Mages

>>52126561
Shyeel you already have a wealth of info on. You don't need to specify shit for them.

>>52126561
House Shyeel is not one of the Five Military Houses though, which is what the above post is about. They're becoming comparable thanks to their Myrmidon manufacturing and importance in the Retribution, but have not historically been known for much more than physics research and engineering.

>>52126576
>Implying I know anything about Ret fluff

>>52126607
You can always download the Mk2 Forces of Warmachine: Ret book from the thread sticky. And the old IKRPG stuff.

>>52126545
What's the point of having a sword if you can't use it to pick up chicks?

Someone put this species down asap.

>>52126637
Those books have like no fluff in them. The Skorne one just has a meeting of Tyrants and Lord Tyrants. Like nigger that's nothing.

>>52126678
The Retribution one has quite a bit of fluff relating to Ios, the nature of the Retribution itself and and different movers and shakers politically that either oppose or back it. The Narrative fluff is about assaulting a Khadoran fort, Ravyn nearly killing Strakhov and an unsuccessful attempt to retrieve Nyssor's vault from Zerkova, but there's a lot of background fluff as a prelude to the model entries.

Full rundown of Iosan fluff:

So long ago the Elven gods saw humanity, and the other races. Seeking to emulate this, they gave birth to the Lyossans. A predecessor to what is now known as the Iosans. However, many of the other races had previously been in existence for a long time. In order to mitigate the advantages of said races, the gods saw fit to bestow upon the elves advanced technology, metallurgy and arcana. This became known as the Lyossan empire, and all was right with the world, minus the Skorne who attacked the outskirts Lyoss from time to time. Eventually the Lyossans and the Gods developed a desire to walk amongst each other and enjoy each other's presence. An idea came up. What if they each built a bridge and connected Urcaen with Caen. The gods could then crossover and be with their people. Unfortunately, the mortal Lyossans, despite following Nyssor's directions, somehow fucked up the construction. As the gods stepped over into the boundary of the living a catastrophic explosion occurred, destroyed a vast part of Immoren and tearing the fabric of reality (a part I will explain later). The gods made it to Caen, but a vast majority of Lyossans died. Once again to remedy this, the gods set to work, helping the Lyossans rebuild society into what is now called Ios. Eventually their powers began to wane, births began to slow, and the Iosan population began to stall. So after some deliberation, the gods chose to leave Ios and search for a way to return to Urcaen. Shortly after the gods Departure, a prophet named Aeric took the Nyss out of their home Darsael and lead them north after a vision he attributed to Nyssor. Then, the cult of Nyrro surfaced and a great deal of priests began to attempt to escape mortality by becoming eldritches (which is essentially an elven vampire). Things just got worse. Priests began to go crazy, entire cities began to commit suicide, and worst of all, the Soulless began to appear. Children born without a soul or affect.

>>52126811
Eventually the gods returned. Well two of them. Scyrah appeared weak and weary, only to collapse into a coma within the Fane of Lacyr. Nyssor to the Nyss, only to freeze himself so as to forestall his deterioration. This is when the elves began to notice something outside their borders. Orgoth was being pushed back by human mages, who drew their power not from their gods or Orgoth's dire sorcery, but an entirely different source. These powers earliest onset being 3 years before the priests went mad and the majority around the time of the Rivening (said shitstorm described after Aeric left). The source coming from Thamar's gift that was at a cost of tainting human souls. Arcanists leapt on the chance to study and found tenuous clues that human use of magic fucks up the elven dilemma. The evidence is suggestive, but it shows a damning trend leading to faster deterioration and increasing soulless births. Which lead to two splinter sects:

>1. Retribution
A group of guerilla warriors who attempt to ease the noose around the gods neck that is tightening due to human magic use by killing human magic users.
>2. Seekers
A group that seeks to better understand the issue at hand and search for the other gods in home that there are more remaining waiting to be found.

And while these two groups form another shitstorm happened. Some asshole dragon named Everblight destroyed Issyrah (one of the elven cities). And up pops Ghyrrshyld (or Goreshade). Picture an elven Hitler appearing. Dude consolidated Ios' political and military power and reinvigorated a dying people. He gathered all forms of occult as he attempted find salvation for the Iosan people. He was cruel in war, but this was overlooked due to his rousing speeches and devotion to saving his kind. Eventually his cousin had a soulless child and it was the tipping point. He went frothing mad and babystomped in the court room, and took Ios into a bloody civil war that caused thousands more deaths.

>>52126825
Eventually he was defeated and Ios attempted its recovery. The Nyss were discovered, only to find that dragonblight's influence began creeping onto a portion of the population. Ios is currently attempting to bring in those that it can, but it is a long and difficult process. Furthermore Nyssor's resting place was broken into by a now Eldritch Goreshade who attempted to kill the god believing mistakenly that it would remedy the issue. He was chased away temporarily. The Khadorans picked up the cask, and it was only after a few attempts that Iosans got it back (encountering Goreshade a second time as he attempted to kill Nyssor again). Currently the god is back in Ios, however, Goreshade is in the motions to attempt again. This time on Scyrah's life as well. If that weren't enough, Makeda is on a warpath and has decided now is the time to conquer Ios for the Skorne Empire. She's broken through a gate and is moving inwards. All the while human magic is increasing, more soulless are being born, the gods are deteriorating more rapidly (well Scyrah is, Nyssor is still in a block of ice), and dragonblight is spreading further amongst the Nyss.

Keep in mind this is all incredibly fucking bad because the total Iosan population (military and soulless included) is only around 1 million. They are running on limited resources and any significant loss of life severely harms them.

>>52126825

Speaking about Everblight what has his crew been up to lately? Last I heard the Twins were trading away an Anthac to some dragon as part of a peace treaty.

File: ios.png (2MB, 1864x1176px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1864x1176px

>>52126837
Then you get the Wrath, Colossals etc. fluff which can be summarized:

>Ossyan manages to get Nyssor back
>Goreshade tricks Zerkova into going after Ossyan and gave her a Menite relic which can melt Nyssor's ice
>Goreshade kicked the shit out of Vyros again
>Vyros rescued Ossyan from Zerkova and took the spoils of war (including the Torch) back to Ios
>Vyros brings Nyssor back to Ios and gets promoted to head of all the Dawnguard
>Vyros takes the Hyperions off of border defense
>Skorne invades
>Goreshade infiltrates Ios and gets an eldritch army

Pic related happens next

>Helynna joins the fight
>Goreshade gets into the fane
>Something happens - Goreshade is resurrected and named Champion of Scyrah

>>52126837
They make Skorne sound perfectly civilised.

>>52126911
Skorne did nothing wrong.

File: IMG_20160127_220259_zpsezzqvqr6.jpg (193KB, 579x1024px) Image search: [Google]

193KB, 579x1024px

>>52108676

Hi all, could really use some advice.
I have stalked the game since MkII and really want to get in. I'd say that I have a fair grasp of the theory, but very little actual experience. I'd like some advice about choosing a faction.
I've narrowed it down to Convergence or Retribution.

What I'm looking for:
> Excellent internal balance, where I can tinker and swap units around without gimping myself
> Good variety, so that I can play Jackspam to full-Inf, full melee to gunline and anything inbetween.
> Good stable of Warcasters where I can really experiment with different builds to find something that gels.
> Lots of 'gotcha' abilities where I can chain together different activations into unexpected attack angles.
> An army that is difficult to use well, and requires some good thought on my part to wield properly
> Lots of abilities and special rules to link together, rather than raw stats
> High speed, advanced deployment etc.
> Special snowflake army that won't have players rolling their eyes at yet another FotM list.

Aesthetically, I love both of them. Any advice is very much appreciated.

File: Elara10.png (2MB, 975x1263px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 975x1263px

>>52128564
Ret hits a lot of those pointers.
Their models are generally well-costed and reliable on offense, they have a bunch of toolkit warcasters, slightly above average speediness (besides Vyros1 + Griffons turning your list into a missile battery), and high dependency on order of activation in order to pull off combos with your squishy dudes. Being a special snowflake depends entirely on your local playerbase.

see also: force fields, colossal plasma cannon, battle mage pinball, waifus

>>52128564
Just play Ret. you'll love the janky shit having momentum guns, battle mages and Helios can do for you.

Question. With the recent ruling from an Infernal that you may charge a target and resolves your initial ranged attacks before you resolve your melee attacks due to Dual Attack, is there any reason I can not slam a model but before I resolve that melee attack roll I use my tractor beam on the Helios to pull a different target behind my slam target before I resolve the slam?

>>52128564
You've definitely narrowed it down to armies that fit the majority of those points. As a CoC player, I'll run you through our end of it.

>Fairly strong internal balance, with no autoincludes other than the corrollary, and nothing that's complete trash other than the Prime Conflux, whose main problem is supporting models that don't actually exist.
>Variety took a bit of a hit this edition. Jackspam has always been a strongsuit of the faction, as has big bricks. Infantry spam is a bit tougher now due to recursion being weaker, and non-jack gunlines don't really exist. We only have 3 units with guns and of those one is a short range medium base unit with assault, a small based shorter ranged unit with sprays, and a 3 model skirmish unit.
>While we only have 5 each is fairly on par with each other and has a niche. Mom is the ranged jack list, Syntherion is all jacks combined arms, Axis is almost all infantry, Lucant is your brick caster, and Aurora is the most balanced list wise and is mostly focused on the assassination.
>Combining the next two points, a CoC army is one big clockwork machine where all the parts need to be working for the bes performance. A good player will have soke redundancies and back ups, but if you aren't being careful with your support and positioning you could easily find yourself grinding to a halt.
>Between the Field Marshals on all 5 casters, the way Vector Mat/Rat works and the inclusion of support like attunement servitors, Special Abilities are definitely the name of the game with CoC. I'd say Retributors are the only things carried simply by numbers, and even then their special rules at least help sometimes.
>Speed is pretty much the big nope from your list. With the exception of the Angel units and the Servitors most of our stuff is on the slower side. There's some fixes for that but most of them are specific fixes in one way or another.

>>52111820
>themes required to fix underperforming models
>meanwhile other themes are just spamming models already used outside of themes, but cheaper
>themes are meant to balance the game

LOL PP

>>52129574
I'd lean towards not being able to do that just because it's a power attack rather than your initials, but at the same time, I wouldn't have expected them to allow Dual attack to work as a pseudo assault anyway.

>>52129607
>Prime Conflux, whose main problem is supporting a model (singular, there is only *1* model).
>And penetrators just give them dual attack or gunfighter already

>>52129626
That was the weird part of the ruling. DESU the most fun with Dual Attack I've had this edition has been trampling up to engage a model with Lylyth3 to get a firing angle on things behind them, since you can just fire out of melee at other things behind the things you're engaging.

>>52129800
Why does it autocorrect the contraction of to be honest? That's annoying.

>>52129690
The perforators recently got a price cut. I haven't been able to test them out since, so I'm not sure how it helped. Besides compared to the Conflux, I'd still rate them usuable.

>>52129816
It does the same with F A M, senpai. I find it hilarious honestly.

>>52129834
All they need is dual attack or someshit to AP at melee

>>52126837
>Makeda is on a warpath and has decided now is the time to conquer Ios for the Skorne Empire. She's broken through a gate and is moving inwards.

She be gone now apparently.

The Skorne invasion crumpled after 4shade and the Wurm intervened. We don't know the specifics yet.

I'm willing to bet Skorne will be fighting Trolls a lot in MKIII, since the Trolls have now set up camp WAAAAY away from everybody else. The only people nearly close enough to really fight them are Menoth and the Skorne Empire.

File: 17264758_10154224112572051_7294981210208570020_n.jpg (38KB, 668x777px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 668x777px

The newest incarnation of the former Cryx warcaster Goreshade, Lord Ghyrrshyld has been returned to life by the goddess Scyrah to lead his people once more. One of the greatest masters of occult lore, Ghyrrshyld can shut down enemy magics with ease, thanks to Field Marshal [Arcane Vortex], and can return the dead to life with his Revive spell. Now a champion of the Iosan gods, Ghyrrshyld has mastered control of Nyssor’s magical blade Voass and is able to surround his army in intense cold, freezing any who dare close with them to do harm.

File: 17103602_10154224112732051_8563022691889565819_n.jpg (20KB, 578x597px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 578x597px

>>52130526
A new Retribution warcaster attachment, the Fane Knight Guardian stands ready to protect their warcaster from any and all harm, thanks to Guard Dog, Shield Guard, and the new Total Devotion ability, which grants the Guardian +4 ARM and immunity to Knock Down while within their warcaster’s command range. At 4 points, the Fane Knight Guardian is sure to be another highly popular release for all Retribution armies.

File: 17264924_10154224112942051_2186133032162440449_n.jpg (36KB, 960x537px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 960x537px

>>52130548
With access to Empower and Repair [d3+1], the three-man House Shyeel Arcanist unit is sure to become a ubiquitous support unit for warjack-centric Retribution armies.

File: 17239799_10154224113897051_1085857589221768321_o.jpg (58KB, 871x1078px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 871x1078px

>>52130563
Hemera’s Empowered Arc Node ability makes it an ideal warjack for spellslinging warcasters like Adeptis Rahn (PIP 35002), while its Mark Target ability makes it a favorite of Lord Arcanist Ossyan (PIP 35046) and Ravyn, Eternal Light (PIP 35004). When paired with its bonded warcaster Issyria, Sybil of Dawn (PIP 35058), Hemera provides its favored warcaster with a free upkeep in addition to its numerous other benefits.

File: 17190849_10154224114152051_4435629719960015191_n.jpg (69KB, 960x600px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 960x600px

>>52130583
The Ryssovass Defenders boast Tough and Weapon Master alongside a moderate 10/16 point cost. When led to battle by Aelyth Vyr (PIP 35086), these grim Nyss swordsmen become the bane of enemy cavalry, gaining Hard. The Ryssovass pair great with warcasters like Dawnlord Vyros (PIP 35001) and Thyron, Sword of Truth (PIP 35064).

File: 17265012_10154224112692051_8151216485294153222_n.jpg (19KB, 477x608px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 477x608px

>>52130599
As a master of winter magic, the Priest of Nyssor provides several powerful benefits to his fellow Nyss warriors, including an Elite Cadre, giving all Nyss Immunity: Cold, and a spell that grants Nyss in his command range +1 to attack rolls. This makes the Priest of Nyssor pair exceptionally well with the Ryssovass Defenders (PIP 35077), Aelyth Vyr (PIP 35086), and Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (PIP 41109).

>>52130372
The curse of Skorne - By being one of the only armies that could possibly interrupt the status quo, they are forced to job and fight pointless fights way away from the 'real plot' of what's going on in the Warmachine side of things.

>Come on now, kids, play with your toys in the sand, papa Cygnar has to go save the world now

All this new Ret, my wallet hurts.

Holy shit those Nyss models. I'm getting some serious LotR vibes and I love it.

Also the insane bitch fits on the Legion and Cryx facebook groups are hysterical. No wonder they got rid of the faction forums, the amount of salt from those two factions would have broken the site.

Seriously though congrats to Ret players on some seriously cool looking models. Might actually pick up some Ret in the future now!

File: 17264318_10154224114207051_9195887489859559307_n.jpg (44KB, 960x484px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 960x484px

>>52130646
Swordsmen without peer, House Ellowuyr Swordsmen pair great with offensive-focused warcasters like Lord Ghyrrshyld, the Forgiven (PIP 35087), Issyria, Sybil of Dawn (PIP 35058), and Thyron, Sword of Truth (PIP 35064).

>>52131201
>Also the insane bitch fits on the Legion and Cryx facebook groups are hysterical.

Okay, Cryx bitching I can understand, but what's Legion crying about?

File: Sagara nope.jpg (70KB, 303x685px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 303x685px

>all these elves of every flavor
I hope my wallet can take it

File: 17203033_10154224112642051_3834922795386862652_n.jpg (25KB, 481x627px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 481x627px

>>52131302
A champion among the Ryssovass Defenders (PIP 35077), Aelyth Vyr pairs well with all the new Nyss releases as well as with warcasters who favor strong melee solos like Elara, Death’s Shadow (PIP 35076) and Thyron, Sword of Truth (PIP 35064).

File: 17201028_10154224113427051_1481852597696100554_n.jpg (31KB, 960x495px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 960x495px

>>52131321
Dauntless fighters, the Spears of Scyrah pair great with nearly every Retribution warcaster, thanks to their Shield Guard ability and a modest point cost of 9. Combined with their excellent melee attributes and Vengeance, the Spears of Scyrah are sure to be an extremely popular unit for all Retribution armies.

>>52130563
These are just a resculpt and repacking of regular Arcanists, right?

Not that I won't be buying them regardless.

>>52131311
Their only viable caster is Lylyth3, and Eyeless sight isn't the bullshit it was.

>>52131364
no, a new unit entirely. You can have the arcanist solos and this unit running around, most likely going to be FA 2. so up to 9 arcanists on the field, though i don't think these guys have the focus granting the solos do.

After having played Khador for awhile, several friends in my meta suggested I also play Skorne. Any advice for someone starting off with Skorne?

Jesus, it's just Ret Christmas here soon isn't it? That is a hell of a lot of new models being released in a short window.

>>52131402
So you like the color red, eh?

>>52131366
Oh, I assumed from context that the bitching was related to the new Ret releases.

>>52131400
That description said they had Empower as well.

>>52131418
Yeah, pretty much.

>>52131425
Empower is +2 POW on the weapon, isn't it? Powerbooster is what gives focus.

>>52131311
>>52131424

They're complaining that the Ryssovass Defenders are the good guy mirrors of Legionnaires but better so that means PP hates them.

>>52131400
New Arcanists unit has Empower but have D3+1 Repair instead of D6.

>>52131302
>Lord Ghyrrshyld, the Forgiven
my fucking sides

>>52131449

Power Booster was renamed Empower in MK3.

Hmm so much shield guard being released for ret, I wonder if they are trying to make that ret's core ability.

>>52131449
No Empower gives focus and removes disruptions. Concentrated Power is the +2 Damage

>>52130526
Revive is a sick attrition ability (imagine having to deal with Sentinels more than necessary ugh) and Field Marshall: Arcane Vortex makes Goreshade4 a nice Haley drop.

As with Cryx Goreshade 2 and 3, be aware that certain Khador casters make melee assassination impossible for him.

>>52130548
Might be nice. Thanks to the ARM buff, this guy might actually stay around longer than the stupid dog. Shield Guard is always nice, but 4 Points is a lot though

>>52130563
This is going straight into every jack heavy list that already runs 3 Arcanist solos. (unless they're not allowed in Vyros's Griffon theme, which would be sad). Otherwise, you are probably better off with normal Arcanists.

>>52130583
Sounds nice so far, but the points cost will decide whether this jack is useful or not.

>>52130599
These guys are an edition too late, but fuck they look cool.

>>52130646
Potential Khador tech if Sorscha1 becomes meta?

>>52131302
Anti-gunline jammers. Not sure if that's useful right now.

>ret gets goreshade
>convergence didn't get haley
Bravo peepee.

>>52131490
Oh and following the mk3 trend, Goreshade4 will get Immunity:Cold.

>>52130599
I'm curious to see how they are going to justify legionnaires being 15 points with these fuckers being the apparently much better uncorrupt versions for 1 point more......

>>52131490
>As with Cryx Goreshade 2 and 3, be aware that certain Khador casters make melee assassination impossible for him.

I mean, they're not impossible, it just means that they won't become Stationary when he hits them with Voass. There's no such thing as a fire/electricity/cold/corossion melee weapon.

File: Nichijou+gif+dump+gifs+forgive+the+newfag+or+don+t+i+don+t+care_9038c9_4042898.gif (596KB, 300x170px) Image search: [Google]

596KB, 300x170px

>>52130599

> these grim Nyss swordsmen become the bane of enemy cavalry
>become the bane

Fuck, PP has gotten really good at rubbing it in Cryx' face.

>>52131592
Oh, I always thought that's how the elemental weapons worked. Go figure.

>>52131696
The idea being that being used yo the cold makes you immune to getting randomly frozen and having ice chucked at you. But a magic ice sword is still a freakin sword.

>>52130599
Holy shit these guys look cool.

Which means they'll probably be another "Why not another unit of Sentinels?" unit.

>>52131857

Having native Tough already makes them pretty unique in faction.

>>52131321
Fucking neckbeard elves.

>>52131311

Ret's getting bettor Nyss than the Nyss faction. Plus this is after PP said they wanted Legion to be more combined arms while proceeding to nerf all of Legion's infantry staples.

I'm not going to throw a tantrum and threaten to sell my army off/shitpost on /tg/ constantly, but it's kind of a bummer seeing this right after the pretty garbage Legion theme forces.

>>52132683
Well the heavy beast theme force is good enough.

File: 1466658566162.jpg (9KB, 165x148px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 165x148px

>>52130526
>big meaty hands
>tiny baby biceps

>>52132872
They're robot hands, give him a break

>>52132683
Admittedly, the Nyss in Legion are corrupted and twisted, so it stands to reason that when your skeleton isn't literally fighting against you just to exist you'll perform better. I mean, having digitigrade legs might make your Naruto runs look more terrifying, but chances are you won't move as fast as you would not having had your whole method of locomotion forcibly readjusted into something unnatural.

>>52132683

>Ret has 2 Nyss units, 1 solo, and a CA
>better Nyss than the Nyss faction

You don't even know what they all do yet, holy fuck stop your fucking pity party. It's not like Legion doesn't already have some great Nyss units with shit like Raptors, Swordsmen, Striders... Fuck what about almost all of your casters being Nyss?

It's a tiny subfaction in the one other elf faction, stop being so childish.

>>52133059
2 Nyss Units
3 Nyss Solos

>>52132960
>>52133059
I do understand the salt about the new Ryssovass being superior to the Legionnaires. The Ryssovass were supposedly the first to be corrupted by Everblight, so I would assume some of their best got converted in that batch. They do seem very lackluster compared to swordsmen, and now their unblighted counterparts in RoS. Maybe they'll get a Legionnaire theme down the road to bring them up to the new standard. Either way, good for RoS, they deserve a few Nyss...but Legion deserves the best ones.

>>52131490
I'll gladly pay 4 points to make some of our harder to kill Casters even harder to kill. I.e Garry or Tyrone with the guardian.
They're Shyeel mechanics, they'll be allowed in Forge.
Under Issy she'll upkeep her 2 upkeeps for free if she brings Sylys (Read: She will)
It's Weapon Masters with Tough for 10/16. They're fine especially when they can get Veteran Cadre.
The Ellowyr Swordsmen look like they're coming with a UA so not sure where they'll land once the models release

>>52116462
>>52116569
Sucks to be Ossyan. All he wanted to do was Make Vyre Great Again.

Constantly got shat on for it. Did something amazing, Vyros took credit. Probably had other stuff planned, but who cares because fuckin' GYRRSHYLD CAME BACK. ALIVE AGAIN AND SHIT.

And thus everyone forgot about poor Ossyan.

>>52133224

It's been a long time since Everblight corrupted the Nyss, so there's been a lot of time for the survivors to become divergent from their Legion counterparts.

>but Legion deserves the best ones.

Well, they don't 'deserve' anything more than anyone else. No one has had a problem with Nyss Hunters blowing Blighted Nyss Archers and Striders out of the water for two editions. I understand why people are salty about the Ryssovass, it doesn't make those people any less childish.

>>52133691
>tfw you've spent decades studying chronomancy
>tfw you're basically a pioneer or expert in the field in time magic
>tfw some upjumped blonde haired cunt is infinitely better at it than you simply because she was born with a twin
>tfw not only is she better but her gift of magic is killing your gods

Sucks to be Ossyan.

>>52133843
>>52133691

Ossyan has been written from day one as Immoren's biggest cuck.

>>52133983
Just needs someone to breed his woman and make it complete.

My vote goes Skorne.

>>52128564
>>52129062
>>52129491
>>52129607

>>52130548

Yeah I think Ret won. Thanks all!

>>52130599
These are basically better trollkin fennblades and that is insulting.

>>52134045
Xerxis is basically godmode in the fluff so he'd make the ideal candidate.

So I just remembered something in the rules that came up a while back when my opponent went to hook my caster with Loki and I asked if I still got hooked if the damage was transferred. On page 72 of Primal:

>This model is still considered to have suffered damage even if the damage is transferred

This means that Naaresh will still get blood tokens even if I transfer the damage away. Which means that it's worth it to whip Naaresh then transfer it to a beast, as not only do I get a blood token, but the one point of damage means Pain Response is online for that beast.

Damn, Naaresh just went up a notch in my book.

>>52130599
Still worth the one more point for Sentinels to ensure that your models don't die to splash damage. Not that most factions wouldn't kill for that unit.

>>52133691
There is a whole two years of fluff to explore. He could have accomplished a great deal for his house in that time.

>>52135137
Just think of all the morale his wife has raised within the ranks.

File: image.jpg (71KB, 800x769px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 800x769px

>>52135147
kek

Does anyone have some of the newer fiction?

File: MadDog.jpg (52KB, 500x436px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 500x436px

Reading through the erratas again. Is PP retarded or are they just pretending?

>Kovnik Joe has become almost an auto-include in every list coupled with Winter Guard Rifle Corps.
>The combination is stifling the functionality of infantry against Khador and has all but removed the need for Winter Guard Infantry.
>We hope this change will not only reduce the effectiveness of the combination but also help make Winter Guard Infantry a more attractive option.

I am a supporter of this nerf still, but how did nerfing the attack roll bonus available for ALL Winter Guard models make the Rifle Corps less and the regular Infantry more attractive? This argument doesn't make any sense.

>The Berserker, much like the Mad Dog, has a huge amount of damage boxes and armor for its cost.
>Increasing the point cost to 9 brings it in line with other warjacks.

And paying 1 more point gives me 3 more boxes, 2 more ARM, 2 more MAT and takes away the downside of blowing up? Okay?

>The point cost of the Destroyer may have been inappropriately assessed in the new edition.
>We feel that the reason this model does not see much play is because of its point cost, not the power level of its rules.
>We hope this new cost will make it a more attractive model when compared to the Decimator.

The Decimator was an attractive option? Wat? Are PP even playing the same game as us?

>>52135821
It should be obvious by now that PP play Guild Ball and Malifaux all day.

>>52133224
>he Ryssovass were supposedly the first to be corrupted by Everblight, so I would assume some of their best got converted in that batch.

If anything I'd say the best of them are the ones that avoided corruption.

>>52135838
C-come on anon, n-nobody plays guild ball haha

going through the Trollblood command book because I want to get into them, why don't the light troll warbeasts have snacking? Most of them actually make mention of their eating habits, and then don't give them the option to eat their opponents. What gives?

>>52135838
Malifaux I buy.

But Guild Ball is dead in the PacNW.

>>52131548
Haley is somebody's waifu, that's the only reason I can come up with for her dramatic story that dovetails into zero consequesces. She even magiced her arm back because the sculptor forgot and oversight isn't a thing.

>>52136162
in the new England meta Guild ball seems to super outnumber malifaux.

>>52136233
the New England/New York malifaux meta isn't big, but it's brutal.

>>52131565
Run the Legionnaire theme list that makes them good. Oh wait...

Seriously, PP wants to ignore all the old stuff they messed-up in the edition change and just sell new toys.

>>52136169
I'm still honest-to-god hoping that one day I will get a Convergence Haley model, just because that story had so much potential that was legitimately shoved down the toilet.

>>52131424
>>52131456
As a player of both Ret and Legion, it is hard to enjoy Legion as much in Mk3 since its pretty much been like getting pushed down on the playground and having your toys stolen.

>>52114793
Goreshade being a bastard and playing both Ios and Cryx isn't an insult, it's a payoff. They've been setting this plotline up since the early days of Mk1.

>>52115960
>just look at him, you'd have to be fucking retarded to think he also works for Cryx
This, and also - seriously, how many goddam iterations of the same caster do you want in one faction?

Any Khador playes tried Zerkova1 in Winter Guard theme yet?

Cloudwall+Rocketeer gunline sounds like fun and the fact that she is immune to magic, can sac pawn against guns and has Watcher to protect her hot ass against melee means she is a pain to assassinate.

>>52130526
So Ret is just randomly getting half-a-faction worth of models dropped on them at once? That's interesting. Is this to finally bring them up to parity with the prime factions? Or is this just how the new themey books are going to go?

>>52136653
Given that Haley went all The One on everybody as part of that plot, I think the most likely Convergence Conversion at this point is Nemo. Immortality is much more appealing for old people, and plus he's always been a bit of a technology fetishist. I just hope they have they remember to include the einstein hair on his robot form.

>>52130599
>>52131302
Have they dumped rules for any of this stuff yet?

Be pretty interesting to see if they can find a niche for THREE distinct units of small based heavy infantry with two-handed swords (and this in a faction where the fast-n-stealthy melee niche is already taken).

>>52130526
>Arcane vortex and Revive as primary abilities
>Swordsmen pair great with offensive-focused warcasters like Lord Ghyrrshyld
I'm trying to puzzle this one out. What does an "offensive-focused" caster with those two abilities look like? Keeping in mind they're referring to the new goreshade as offensive in the context of THIS faction.

>>52136849
>how many goddam iterations of the same caster do you want in one faction?

I'd just like some of them to be playable, and not get shot off the board by Cygnar and Ret armies.

>>52137145
As part of the story Mother nentiins to Haley that they already offered Nemo the same 'Robot body, no strings attached' deal and he turned it down.

>>52137145
>Conflux supports electric
>Nemo is electric
IT
MAKES
SENSE.

His new hairstyle is electricity.

>>52137425
>As part of the story Mother nentiins to Haley that they already offered Nemo the same 'Robot body, no strings attached' deal and he turned it down.
Yeah, that's true. Still, he could come around. I don't think that was an easy offer to turn down for Nemo. Just need to have some events put him in a position where he feels like it's the only good choice.

>>52137346
>I'd just like some of the Goreshades to be playable, and not get shot off the board by Cygnar and Ret armies.
Well, the "getting shot off the board" is kind of a whole-faction problem, not really specific to the Goreshades. Outside of that weak spot, I'm not sure what you're complaining about... I've found all three of them pretty compelling in their own ways (with Horseshade being my personal favorite).

Hey, do you guys think PP will announce the winners of the BIG GAME HUNTERS contest soon?

>>52137595
I'm just a bit salty, I guess. Given how gimped Cryx is on the whole right now, it feels like insult being added to injury. Not even our Warcasters want to stick with the faction!

>>52137838
There's no reason you can't win games with Cryx locally. Ignore the national meta, it doesn't effect you, and remember its a game. Just because you don't get easy or auto wins anymore doesn't mean you can't compete in your local events

>>52137838
The literal only thing the Denny1 Theme and Coven pairing can't win against, is Sloan. Stop crying.

>>52137904
I play in a small, casual local group - none of us have ever even thought of entering any kind of event or tournament. It still feels like the other players (Cygnar, Ret, Protectorate) have a massive leg up over me in Mk3.

Cryx badly needed reigned in, but the game just isn't much fun any more.

>>52137904
>There's no reason you can't win games with Cryx locally. Ignore the national meta, it doesn't effect you.
Generally pretty true. It depends a lot on where you are of course. You definitely have to think about the broader scene for any big cons you're going to. And if your local has any of the nationally-competitive players (or continentally-competitive, in the case of Europe) in it, that obviously changes things. But for most players, most of the time, you're absolutely right. Not every game is against Kara Sloan, and definitely not every gunline has a top-tier player piloting it.

I've actually been finding that some of the tech they gave us in the last quarter or two, while maybe not what we'd hoped for exactly, does work pretty well. Just spamming min mcthralls with max brutes for shield guard (and a screen) actually works pretty well into the low volume / high quality shooting lists like Kara. 12 points for 6 chaff + 3 SG's is not bad at all.

And the satyxis guns + birds = cloudwall thing, while a bit gimmicky, really does bone some factions pretty hard. Helps that neither of those units are actually committed to that plan - if you're opponent can ignore clouds, they can just do something else.

>>52137941
>The literal only thing the Denny1 Theme and Coven pairing can't win against, is Sloan. Stop crying.
I'm finding the best answer to that is to just go oldschool "MOAR BANES" style Cryx for one of my lists. Cryx is one of the few factions that can still field 50+ infantry and actually do something with it. Most jackspam style lists have a pretty low volume of attacks - a typical Kara list will often have less than 10 guns. She basically has one turn of good shooting to deal with your Raiders, another turn to shoot down everything else, and then it's a melee game.

It might not work on an expert player, but you can often steamroll a local scene just by playing infantrymachine into a meta that's not expecting it.

any merc fags here? What casters you guys playing

>>52138347
Ossrum.

>>52138364
Don't you feel that every competitive Ossrum list is super cheese? Earthbreaker+Galleon in mk2 and now this gunbunny spam nonsense

>>52138692
>Don't you feel that every competitive Ossrum list is super cheese?
That's because it IS super cheese. The caster is insanely strong, gun bunnies are insanely strong. You can't tie them up because they bulldoze you, you can't screen because bunnies have such huge range that it doesn't matter. The deck's only real weakness is the caster itself who sits at a 16/17 statline.

>>52131409
You have to remember that PP is doing GW style big army updates per faction rather than little simultaneous updates.

Also, why is PP doing ad blurb when mini rules are subject to change during CID

>>52138808
Because these minis aren't going into CID

>>52138347
Magnus2

>>52138967
You running Kingmaker or out of theme?

>>52139018
Not him but Magnus is good in both. Kingmaker is probably stronger but putting Dodge on Gallant is hilarious

>>52137992
Arguably yes, but you can make up for that in player skill and building for your own local meta.

I hate to say it, but you need to git gud.

>>52122785

So, basically the Empress is his waifu.

>>52139435
Yeah I run him in theme only because I had the models already from my Damiano KM list, But I like the idea of +2def Gallant and pow 15 idrian shots.

>>52126324
Wasn't the ritual Barnabas was pulling off to try and ascend at the time a part of it as well?

>>52134703
Now If we just had the photoshop skills to make a porn cover of that.

>>52134733
Sure. If you have the attacks, Fury and most importantly time to spare, go for it.

>>52137941
>The literal only thing the Denny1 Theme and Coven pairing can't win against, is Sloan.
Are you sure? Denny seems like she has game into Sloan based purely on Revenants respawning faster than SLoan can kill them. Now you only need to keep Denny in your deploment zone and the game play itself.

>>52140587
It's what the "xxx69Ultra_pro_gamer_1337xxx" who plays Cryx competitively at my store said.

Other than the lack of options when building, he has absolutely nothing to complain about Cryx as far as power level goes. Satyxis are dumb, Coven is dumb and Denny is extra dumb (as she always was).

File: powerlevel.jpg (17KB, 248x251px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 248x251px

>>52135821
Aw, damn. They made Berserkers worse... and then said they were too good, and made them worse again. I miss Aggressive. I miss six point powder kegs.

>>52140929
Also, Drago is apparently what PP considers the golden standard of balancing points/effectiveness.

Topkek

>>52138347
Damiano and Magnus1. Still stuck in infantry machine.

>>52137163
They can get immunity to cold, +1 to attack rolls, WM and only in faction Tough. Also they're 10/16. Hey shit all over Ellowyr swordsmen until we see what the Ellowyr UA does which has been shown in the pictures

File: Jetfuel can't melt these memes.png (218KB, 409x815px) Image search: [Google]

218KB, 409x815px

>>52141235
>not Magnus1 and the all-buccs.
>why even live

>>52139454
Hate to say it but it sounds like you haven't a fucking clue, what Cryx anon is saying echoes what just about every other Cryx player is saying as well. If you're one of those guys who got owned by Cryx at mk2 why didn't you just git gud?

>>52141701
not him but seriously the Cryx players seem to be stuck on the "woe is me I am so nerfed right now whatever I shall do?" mindset.
There are internal balance issues in cryx but all factions got them.

>>52135821
WGI sprays now actually hit better than WGRC in many situations. Previously aim+boosted attacks hit anything in any situation so you wouldn't ever need the WGI.

Berserkers chassis is complete garbage, I agree.

Well the 2 pow 15 shots and 1 pow 14 shot jacks with same melee costing the same also didn't make sense, did it? It's not like Decimator is useful, but at leat Destroyer now is.

>(Naaresh 1) Master Ascetic Naaresh [+32]
- Cyclops Savage [7]
- Cyclops Savage [7]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

The trick is realising that a warlock is still considered to have taken damage even if they transfer it. So I can whip Naaresh, transfer it to a beast, and get a blood token AND pain response out of it at the same time.

>>52141787

Every faction that is in the bottom tier is going to bitch endlessly because no one likes being there. I've only been able to come back to the threads here post Skorne buff because the salt levels would instantly desiccate me.

>>52141971
You do know, that Bloodrunner Master Tormentors, Praetorian Swordsmen, and Bloodrunners are also all other options if you want a cheap stab for 1 point of damage.

>>52141787
But Cryx also has EXTERNAL balance issues, so on top of 80% of their faction being dogshit relative to the rest of the faction, the "good" portion of their faction is noticeably worse than the good stuff every other faction has.

Right now you're acting exactly like the people in mk2 who would constantly yell "NO REALLY GASPY2 AND BODY & SOUL ARE FINE NOTHING TO SEE HERE GIT GUD NUB"

>>52141787
The Cryx is still very strong competitively. Unless you know about what they do in advance you have a big chance of just dying turn 2. And it's not like knowing helps much to change that.

The main problem with Cryx is that literally ALL of their good lists from mk2 were made either garbage or mediocre in mk3 so people ended up with whole collections of now unplayable models after edition change. I can understand why they're so mad about it.

Also PP fucked up big time with making thematic Cryx models not competitive. Like Cryx is supposed to be undead swarm faction with several tricky and spooky mechanics. And a lot of them don't work competitively.

are Trollbloods worse than Cryx? How would you rank the factions, in single-faction order, from best to worst? Discuss it after you make this claim.

Sick of all this shit about "muh internal balance" and "muh external balance" and "muh 2na spam." Why is your complaint valid. back it up with objective, numerical evidence and then your complaint will be valid.

>>52142092
>Bloodrunner Master Tormentors
Already one in the list, famalamadingdong.
>Praetorian Swordsmen
I really don't rate them in any list that can't protect the UA hard. So like, Makeda1, and Makeda2, and maybe Makeda1/2.
>Bloodrunners
Very meh. I'm also very sick, tired, and used to, people playing battlegroup heavy lists at my LGS. Nihilators can at least put damage on them.

The point is that hitting Naaresh can remotely put Pain Response online, whereas infantry have to actually get over there. And infantry have to roll to hit my beasts, whereas Naaresh is automatically hit by friendly attacks. And he gets blood tokens out of the deal.

>>52142137
Trolls are an enigma.
Locally we have several troll players who have quite solid tournament record with all beast lists. Troll heavies and caster support for them are very strong. I'd put trolls out there in solid 50% factions like Khador or Menoth.

Internationally trolls just always perform like shit. I don't know what's the problem with that.

>>52137145
>Immortality is much more appealing for old people
Isn't he a Morrowan? I mean, you technically get to live forever in a much nicer place in Urcaen if you're Morrowan (no sickness, no old age, etc.) than the possible ramifications of diying while in a robot body. Then you go to Urcaen, Cyriss can't help you and you're screwed.

>>52115300
Other way around, but yep.

>>52142304
>>52142137
Trolls can build some decent lists but their internal balance is terrible and really limits them to just a handful of viable options. A good player might be able to polish the turd enough and perform well locally but big Masters events are going to be difficult

>>52144530
It's the same for Cryx, with the exception that their two viable lists are both REALLY strong.

>>52142137
>How would you rank the factions, in single-faction order, from best to worst?

There's not really enough data to make any sort of reasonable claim at that level of specificity.

I'd tend to say there's a list of factions that have answers for everything and ask some difficult questions:

Cygnar - Haley2 and Haley3 play well into just about anything. Sloan and Nemo3 ask some serious questions. The faction as a whole asks "Can you deal with Arcane Shielded Storm Lances?" because you can put both Storm Lances and a journeyman warcaster in *every* (non-theme) Cygnar list.

Khador - Harkevich Kodiak spam and Vlad1 Rocketeer spam are both ridiculous. We'd see a lot more of both if competitive players weren't leery about buying in to them with the dynamic errata setup.

Retribution - The only faction that everything actually works. Can you stop Relentless-Charging ARM 20 (22 vs shooting) weapon masters from wrecking your line? And can you do it while dealing with whatever the caster is doing, since those weapon masters require zero caster resources to deliver?

Protectorate - Amon asks questions (can you deal with 256 boxes at ARM19+?) answers ARM skew and (non-magical) gunlines like a boss. HR still has the same ungodly attrition game, even if his assassination game is now merely great down from ridiculous. And then there's Kreoss1 (can you block LoS to your caster with stuff that has immunity to knockdown that's *not* from an upkeep or animus?) and a surprisingly deep bench of competitive casters to pair with one of the big boys.

Circle - Baldur2 has the best ARM skew in the game (not reliant on upkeeps, and can screw with charges and melee range with his portable wall). Wurmwood is still S-tier.

Then there's the factions that have limited answers to the big questions and ask few questions that aren't asked better by others. Cryx and Trolls may fall here. No one else does.

Then there's everyone else.

>>52145265
Of the Cryx players I've spoken to, the better the player, the fewer problems they have with the current state of the faction competitively.

Can't say the same for Trolls.

>>52145290
>We'd see a lot more of both if competitive players weren't leery about buying in to them with the dynamic errata setup.

Which is a really bad business practice in my opinion. So far, EVERY single spam element that got the nerf treatment, was nerfed so bad, that it's factually unplayable.

This kind of approach makes players really reluctant to buy models at all. I still haven't built a single Marauder simply because I expect it to either go up to 18 points or lose 12 points of power or something by the time the next errata comes around.


Here I have to state that I am not against nerfs in concept. Not at all and there was a need to do something about both the Scarsfell and the Mad Dog.

But for fucks sake PP, show some restraint. There is a way to make the people who bought 12 mad dogs unhappy without hurting the guy who only bought ONE mad dog.

>>52145468
Jesus anon, I get that khador stuff got hit hard on that errata, but EVERY model didn't get smashed and the things that did are not "factually unplayable," cut the drama.

In fact dgi just posted the winning team on otc had an una list with like 7 scarsfells, so even if he didnt drop the list, he had enough confidence in it to bring it as a pairing.

Other stuff you said I pretty much agree. Hopefully after the most egregious stuff gets smoothed out we will see less splashy nerf erratas

File: Fixing Mistakes Indeed.gif (392KB, 1303x1142px) Image search: [Google]

392KB, 1303x1142px

This game will be in a great place come July 19th.

Screen Cap this.

Because everyone will be playing fucking Ret

>>52141300
for what purpose.

>>52138347
I'm playing Ossrum only because I lost the arms on my Gorten, so Ossrum is my backup. Working up to being tournament ready, but I have no idea what models to buy to go into my second list. The first list being something along the lines of Gorten, drillers, gunners, kayazy, snapjaw, solos. Any thoughts on what I should make my second list? I'm somewhat leaning towards Macbain and all the pirates.

>>52146582
I played Ret before it was cool

>>52146582
I played Ret before Wrath. God damn bandwagoners are gonna ruin my faction,

File: aarf234f234f234.jpg (204KB, 603x600px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 603x600px

Has anyone assembled and painted kaya 3 yet? The model looks pretty legit, except her face on the studio paint job eerily reminds me of Michael Jackson (pic related).

Is it really this bad, or did the studio painter just do a shitty job with her face? Or is this just a bad angle for the model?

Should i have more than 1 Assimilator kit for CoC?

Hey /tg/ I traded my fairly large but underused blood angels army for warmachine cygnar. The models I got looked pretty cool and shared a theme but the guy said he was pretty pressed to win any games with them and didn'the want to invest more.

Here is what I got.
Warcasters: kraye, epic caine ( the one shooting sideways), madox
Warjacks: Ironclad x2, Defender, Cyclone, Stormclad, Fireply, Lancer, Sentinel, Defender x2, a magnetised Avenger that can swap into 2 others
Units: storm swords and guards + 1 officer & one banner bearer (21 total), mechanic & gobbers, rangers, stormlances, a storm cannon guy and his sidekick.
Heroes: Runewood, Sylys, Madelyne, Holt, Ayane, two different Eirys models.

What would be easiest to learn and what should I buy to improve this collection? Can I go with only those stormguys?

>>52149754
To learn, start out with any caster and a few warjacks (2-3). Then just play a few games. You'll lose to experienced players anyway, but you'll learn the game.

Then look into building an actual list. Your collection looks like you could build a mostly competent Storm Division list with Maddox, a few Warjacks and the Stormblades + Lances. You could also play Kraye with all the Jacks (for example in the Heavy Metal theme). He's kinda on the weak side, but he has his moments of glory. I don't like Caine2.

>>52149587
Yes, for Synth and cycling his upkeep on two Microswarms per turn.

>>52149754
How a guy goes and picks up almost a dozen cygnar jacks, and most of a storm division list, and somehow avoids getting a journeyman warcaster or a squire, I have no idea.

If I was you, I'd go buy those two solos. They're pretty cheap, money wise. They also slot into most every list you'll make.

On learning, start small amd slowly build your way to a single 75 point list. Journeyman Leagues are great for this. Ask some of your local players about that.
Once you've got a single 75 point list mostly figured out, create a second 75 point list and learn that one.
From there, practice, practice, practice, then experiment. Always practice more than experiment. If you don't, you'll probably miss out on some details or interactions in your models.

Out of morbid curiosity, I want to try making two Cryx lists and playing to see what all the salt is about. How well does Skarre do and can I pair her with one of the Goreshades?

I'm looking to buy my first unit of ranged infantry as Skorne. Brigands and Reivers obviously go to the top of the list, but I'm looking at the cheap point cost of Slingers and ondering. I could use them in a screening fashion akin to Karax, while getting ranged value out of them. And the different types of ammo are just value. Shame the Acid Bath can't deviate, but it still works great against units like Dawnguard Sentinels who can't bunch up for their +2ARM anymore.

>>52149754
I wouldn't actually recommend jumping right to the full 75 point game. Play a few battlebox (0 point) games first, until you feel comfortable with the core rules. Then jump to 25, then to 50, then to 75, playing a bunch of games at each. Try to focus on mastering one or two models at a time, don't change up your list too much in the early days. I'd recommend picking one caster that you like and just playing that repeatedly until you feel like it clicks.

>>52130599
>>52141272
Were these guys rules actually spoiled somewhere or is this just rumor / trade info extrapolation?

>>52108887

I really hope it isn't unless it results in eOssyan being a merc or something.

As this is some fucking bullshit after he literally murdered babies and turned his own people unto undead abominations.

>>52133691

But does he need to make Vyre Great Again when it's been revealed that Goreshade Did Nothing Wrong?

>>52152870
The sales pitch that rolls out with all new model solicitations have short paragraphs about what the unit can do. What was posted was from those paragraphs. If you want to see them they're on Facebook and I'm sure probably Lormahordes by now

>>52152880
Well when you're dying gods tell you that this guy is ok again and that the gods have cleansed him and brought him back to life, you fucking listen

>>52152995

I dunno. Ossyan's entire story has been defined by 'Redeem my house for the horrors Goreshade did'.

I could seriously see this shaking his faith in the retribution and his gods if they demonstrate they are this much of assholes.

>>52153031
>Tyrant Ossyan

>>52153054

I could see him taking over Magnus' place though as the 'Old angry merc who hates what his country has become'.

>>52153078

>You know what? Maybe Goreshade had a point about one minor thing. The elven gods suck and need to die. This is proven by the fact THEY LIKE GORESHADE.

>>52152880
He murdered soulless babies. You know, those babies that are otherwise killed or given to the Retribution to be used as magical hunk sinks. I don't think they're all the concerned with Soulless rights.

>>52153164

Well, at the time it was treated as a fucking horrifying thing considering what happened to Goreshade the first time.

>>52153154
They don't seem to like Goreshade.

At least, Nyssor didn't when Goreshade confronted him. He had the same unselfish love for him that the gods apparently just have for all elves, but he straight up told the dude he was a fool and he had all the knowledge he needed but hadn't put it together correctly. Maybe when Goreshade gets into the Fane of Scyrah, he's going to be talked down by the goddess and have a legit change of heart. I mean, while he's super arrogant and desperate for vindication, Goreshade is still primarily motivated by a desire to save his people - his love for Ios is more genuine than that of Vyros, or Issyria, or Rahn.

Actually, speaking of unselfish love, can we just take a second to talk about how based the elvish gods are? Nyssor is always thought of as one of the more cold (get it, get it!?) and fickle gods, but he apparently loves his people so much he was willing to use up some of his critically low life force bringing back some old elf who would've died soon anyway, for no real practical reason. Why are only the elvish gods like this? Even Morrow doesn't seem this nice.

>>52153176
No, what was treated as horrifying was him trying to overthrow the government and starting a civil war. The court was shocked by doing it in front of them cause obviously it's something they pretend just doesn't happen but he probably could have talked his way out of that. Instead he started a war.

Hey /tg/, could someone tell me if PP ever bothered to fix the issue with Butcher2 that makes him incapable of using his ability if a friendly models stands within 2 of his back arc?

>>52148180
Yes

>>52152988
I understand what the trade info for the retailers is, and what it's for. I asked the question because >>52141272 seemed like much more specific info than what could be taken from the summaries.

>>52154885
It's a combination of info from the Ryssovas, Priest of Nyssor, and character Ryssovas guy's blurbs

>>52154756
Melee range is only front now.

>>52155080
Can you point me to the errata page? The lazy fucks over at Battlecollege haven't updated yet.

>>52153411
Elven gods coddled their children. They saw what menoth did for humanity, but didn't enjoy watching humanity suffer and crawl on the ground.

This is also why Skorne considers them weak since elven gods basically took care of everything for them

I'm not really sure how Goreshade is redeemed in Iosan culture though. He was basically Hitler+ in terms of evil from their point of view. Hitler is never documented personally killing jew babies and manually engaging in genocide, whereas Goreshade explicitly did both of those.

The implication of divine intervention is that somehow the character is redeemed unless the gods are just total dicks. Retribution was going in the direction of the military co-opting society for some truly heinous shit, but the Gods and their ardent supporters seemed to be the counterbalance to that. Basically handing over the literal babykiller general for the god's seal of approval seems whack.

Maybe there's a scene where Scyrah reveals she actually has the soulless with her or some shit, and they forgive him, and it all works out. Otherwise it kind of just seems like bad writing.

>>52153164
>>52154427
I think most societies would make a pretty big distinction between (1) killing a baby, and (2) letting that kid grow up and then giving them a job in the military where their lives are at risk. Keep in mind these elves, as adults, don't really "fit" into normal society - it's seen as a best-case solution. "At least they can be productive members of society" kind of mentality.

Not saying the Iosans are NICE to the soulless, per se, but they certainly don't endorse outright cruelty toward them. It's a bit of a parallel for the way RL society deals with people that have any kind of disability that prevents them from doing typical jobs, right? Most people, most of the time, might prefer to just ignore the problem, and if pressed would suggest ways to occupy and/or care for those people (with varying levels of compassion, depending on the person).

Goreshade literally had a "THIS IS SPARTA" moment with a sick child, in the most public possible setting. That's a BIG difference, and I don't imagine the typical elf-on-the-street would in any way be OK with it.

>>52155176
>The lazy fucks over at Battlecollege haven't updated yet.
Battlecollege is a wiki, and the "lazy fucks" are all volunteers. Why don't YOU go update it yourself, instead of complaining about it?

>>52155553
I don't have my copy of Prime MkIII on me, but the fluff about the civil war in there paints a much more favorable picture of Ghyrrshylds actions. A lot of people saw that nothing they did since the war has helped and started thinking he might be wrong. To then come back and be literally resurrected by Scyrah goes a long way towards legitimizing him. Vyros and Ossyan probably won't be happy about it but they aren't the norm.

>>52155201
So, basically, the elven gods are the only nice creator deities?

>>52136154
Dunno. I think its a fluff thing. Dire trolls regenerate faster or something.

>>52155508
>Hitler is never documented personally killing jew babies and manually engaging in genocide, whereas Goreshade explicitly did both of those.

...Which race did Goreshade genocide?

>>52155885
Well he wants to conduct the typical genocide on the humans, but he was engaging in ethnic cleansing and experimentation within the confines of Ios. He was well affiliated with the evil vampire elves of Ios.

>>52155859
Dhunia is also blessing happy for her rape babies

>>52155859
Morrow and Thamar also care a lot about their flocks, in their own way. It's really just Menoth and Wurmy that are massive dickbags to everyone.

>>52155625
I already wrote into like 10 pages, including Zerkova1, the Mad Dog, Jozef and Ruin.

>>52153154

It may not be so much "liking Goreshade" as him being the only guy willing to enter their presence in order to bitch about something at the moment a last-gasp Skorne assault was poised to take the capital.

Iosans are otherwise in the position of literally building a Snow-White platform underneath a goddess after she staggers through her temple door looking like shit and collapses in the foyer and praying at her from a respectfully worshipful distance.